8/13/25: Saagar Vs Trump Marijuana Rescheduling, Orthodox Nun Slams Israel With Tucker Carlson

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar Episode: Saagar Vs Trump Marijuana Rescheduling, Orthodox Nun Slams Israel With Tucker Carlson Release Date: August 13, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into a series of pressing political and social issues. The discussion primarily centers around former President Donald Trump's recent decision to reschedule marijuana, the controversial interview conducted by Tucker Carlson with Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos—a Russian Orthodox nun critical of Israeli policies—and the emerging scandal linking Andrew Cuomo to Jeffrey Epstein. This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their conversations, key arguments, and notable insights from the episode.

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1. Donald Trump's Marijuana Rescheduling Decision

Overview: The episode opens with an in-depth analysis of Donald Trump's unexpected move to reschedule marijuana from a Schedule I to Schedule III substance. Krystal Ball provides a critical perspective on the underlying motives behind this decision, suggesting it serves the interests of major marijuana corporations rather than public health or scientific research.

Key Points:

• Reclassification Motives: Krystal argues that Trump's decision is less about recognizing marijuana's medical benefits and more about facilitating access to the banking system for marijuana businesses, likening this maneuver to tactics historically used by Big Tobacco to expand their market reach.

  "This is pure pay-for-play corruption. They don't care one iota about studying weed."
  — Krystal Ball (Timestamp: 06:15)

• Influence of Marijuana Corporations: The hosts discuss how marijuana companies are lobbying for rescheduling to eliminate banking restrictions, thereby enabling them to operate more seamlessly within the financial system and scale their businesses exponentially.

  "This is entirely about expanding access to the banking system and turning the marijuana companies of today, which are already massive multibillion-dollar industries, into a multi-trillion dollar industry."
  — Krystal Ball (Timestamp: 07:20)

• Health and Social Implications: Krystal raises concerns about the potential health risks associated with high-potency THC products and daily marijuana use, drawing parallels to the social and health issues caused by alcohol and tobacco.

  "If you smoke weed every day, it's chill, there's no problems, there's no addiction. It's like there's no social stigma on public weed use."
  — Krystal Ball (Timestamp: 07:45)

Notable Quotes:

• "We're dealing now with unchecked, massive addiction."
  — Krystal Ball (Timestamp: 15:32)

• "Everybody just is accepting this, like, 1990s stoner propaganda that everything is chill and there's no problems or whatever."
  — Krystal Ball (Timestamp: 14:10)

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2. Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos's Interview with Tucker Carlson

Overview: The hosts shift focus to a viral interview featuring Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos, the sister of George Stephanopoulos, discussing the plight of Christians in the Holy Land. Krystal and Saagar analyze the nun's critical stance on Israeli policies and Christian Zionism, highlighting the nuanced perspectives presented in the interview.

Key Points:

• Dual System in Israel: Mother Stephanopoulos describes a segregated infrastructure system within Israel, where different license plates signify restricted mobility for Palestinians compared to Israeli citizens.

  "There's very much an apartheid system."
  — Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos (Timestamp: 24:17)

• Critique of Christian Zionism: The nun condemns Christian Zionism as a heretical belief driven by a transactional relationship with Israel, wherein support is exchanged for eschatological promises.

  "It's a heretical belief."
  — Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos (Timestamp: 29:07)

• Impact on Holy Sites: She raises concerns about the preservation of Christian holy sites amidst expanding Israeli settlements and the potential erosion of these culturally and religiously significant locations.

  "There's a real risk with settlements and such of these holy sites being completely obliterated."
  — Saagar Enjeti (Timestamp: 34:29)

Discussion and Analysis:

Krystal Ball highlights the importance of Mother Stephanopoulos's firsthand experiences, emphasizing how her observations challenge mainstream narratives about Christian life in Israel and the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The hosts engage in a nuanced debate over the terminology used by the nun—specifically her labeling of Christian Zionism as heresy—and explore the implications of such a stance within both religious and political contexts.

Notable Quotes:

• "Christians should be pushing for that [removing from Gaza and allowing food in]."
  — Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos (Timestamp: 26:57)

• "The intersection between marijuana and big capitalism is what it is right now."
  — Krystal Ball (Timestamp: 17:00)

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3. Andrew Cuomo and the Epstein Scandal

Overview: The conversation transitions to the political fallout surrounding former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and his alleged connections to Jeffrey Epstein. Krystal and Saagar dissect recent allegations and media reports that tie Cuomo to Epstein's network, examining the potential ramifications for Cuomo's political aspirations and the broader implications for political accountability.

Key Points:

• Campaign Strategy: Democratic nominee Zoran Mamdani's campaign ad, "Release the Cuomo List," seeks to associate Cuomo with Epstein, aiming to tarnish his reputation by drawing parallels to the disgraced financier's influence.

  "Spiritually, politically part of Trump's genius there and what happened is he got all this money from people associated with trulieve and the PACs and supported the legalization in Florida last year."
  — Ryan Grim (Timestamp: 41:10)

• Legal Proceedings: The hosts discuss the refusal of the judge to unseal grand jury documents related to Ghislaine Maxwell, questioning the transparency of ongoing investigations and the potential for withheld information to influence public opinion.

  "The judge has basically been like, yeah, we're not gonna do it. And Ghislaine is miraculously still in the federal prison camp in my hometown, Bryan, Texas."
  — Krystal Ball (Timestamp: 44:23)

• Political Fallout: Krystal expresses skepticism about Cuomo's attempts to defend himself, highlighting his recent social media behavior as indicative of a deteriorating public image and diminishing political viability.

  "What he has is some type of like teenager with somebody with a teenage mentality running his Twitter account."
  — Ryan Grim (Timestamp: 43:36)

Notable Quotes:

• "If you make a smart argument, knowing what Trump wants to hear, and he's pleased to be in negotiation to have people come kiss the ring and make deals with him."
  — Ryan Grim (Timestamp: 19:59)

• "Everything would be okay if only Hamas would release the hostage."
  — Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos (Timestamp: 26:57)

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Conclusion

In this episode, Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar delivers a critical examination of significant political maneuvers and controversies shaping the United States and the Middle East. From Trump's strategic rescheduling of marijuana to the deep-seated issues within Israeli policies affecting Christians, and the tumultuous revelations surrounding Andrew Cuomo's ties to Epstein, the hosts provide incisive analysis and robust debate. Their discussions underscore the complexities of power, influence, and ethical governance in contemporary politics.

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Notable Timestamped Quotes:

• "This is pure pay-for-play corruption. They don't care one iota about studying weed." (06:15)
• "There's very much an apartheid system." (24:17)
• "It's a heretical belief." (29:07)
• "Spiritually, politically part of Trump's genius there..." (41:10)
• "Everything would be okay if only Hamas would release the hostage." (26:57)

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and arguments presented in the episode, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a comprehensive understanding of the content and its implications.

Transcript

[Ryan Grim]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Emily]

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Emily]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Emily]

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[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com it wouldn't be breaking Points if we did not cover Donald Trump's now apparently current decision to reschedule marijuana from one to three. He confirmed it recently in a press conference. Let's take a listen. There is reporting that the administration is going to reclassify marijuana. Would that send mixed messages that if marijuana is okay, drugs are. Some drugs are okay, but we're trying to clean up crime. How do they go hand in hand? We're only looking at that. That's early. But, you know, somebody reported it, which is fine. We're looking at it. Some people like it, some people hate it, some people hate the whole concept of marijuana because if it does bad for the children, it does bad for people that are older than children. But we're looking at reclassification and we'll make a determination over the next. I would say over the next few weeks. And that determination hopefully will be the right one. Very complicated subject, you know, the subject of marijuana. I've heard great things having to do with medical and I've had bad things having to do with just about everything else but medical and, you know, for pain and various things, I've heard some pretty good things. But for other things, I've heard some pretty bad things. Now, you may be wondering who he's been hearing these great things from, and the answer would be the big pot companies, which are massively lobbying him to reschedule marijuana. So let's all talk about the issue, shall we? Look, I know everybody here knows my. And people know we don't have a choice. People may know my views, but just stick with me. At the very least, let's go and put, what is it the next element, please, up on the screen. This is from the Wall Street Journal report about reclassifying marijuana as dangerous. Quote, this is how this has all come about. Just so people understand, at a $1 million a plate fundraiser earlier this month, Trump told attendees he was interested in such a change. Why? Well, the guests included the chief executive of one of the largest marijuana companies in America, who is encouraging Trump to pursue the change and qu medical marijuana research. Apparently other executives there were the CEO of Pfizer, of Crypto, and of others who have all supported the initiative. So you may be asking, you know, why would pharma and these companies, why do they care so much? It's just about the research. No, it's none of it has to do with research. The reason is because at the Schedule 1 status as it is right now, it means that these marijuana companies, which are printing money, selling high potency THC to probably half the people who are watching this video, as well as half of America, apparently, well, they don't have as much access to the legitimate banking system as they would like. So this is pure pay for Play corruption. They don't care one iota about, quote, studying weed. Millions of people use weed every single day. We know everything we need to know. And I will come back to that here in a little bit. This is entirely about expanding access to the banking system and turning the marijuana companies of today, which are already massive multibillion dollar industries, into a multi trillion dollar industry, a la big tobacco. This time around, it's the exact same playbook. You have capture every single one of these licensed pot shops and all these that are springing up across the country. It's all through the city getting municipal license, deeply corrupt. All the money that's flowing in is from venture capital, from big pharma and from others. And the amount of daily use is, has now surpassed alcohol in the United States. 17.7 million people as of 2022 smoke weed every single day. Apparently it's not addictive though, Emily, whenever you don't smoke, when you smoke something every single day. And it has become a major social issue in terms of just the way it's impacted social life, daily drug use, et cetera. So I just want people to know that even if you support this, it is because some major weed company wants to sell you your THC soda, unregulated, by the way, THC lollipop, THC high potency stuff, which your grandparents would never have dreamed of getting as high as many of these people are getting high on a daily basis. None of it factors in any of the proven deleterious effects of daily marijuana use or marijuana use in general. So I'm just laying it all out here in terms of this is a corrupt deal. The pot companies are bribing a bunch of conservative influencers to talk about rescheduling and research. They are going after the Trump administration because they think that this will expand their access to the banking system. And again, even if you use weed, I genuinely ask everybody to ask whether it is acceptable that right now you have daily use which is not in any way treated the way that we look at somebody. Anybody who smokes cigarettes every day, they know that they're massively increasing their risk of cancer. And all of us socially are like, yeah, come on, man, what are we doing here? If you drink every day, you're a fucking alcoholic, okay? You are an alcoholic if you drink every single day. Everybody knows that. If you smoke weed every day, it's chill, there's no problems, there's no addiction. It's like there's no social stigma on public weed use, on daily weed use. Everybody is Just acting like there's no health risks or any of that whatsoever. And these pot companies don't have come anywhere close to the level of scrutiny that alcohol and tobacco companies. And everyone's like, oh, what about alcohol? Yeah, tax them. Did you know alcohol taxes are down 50% from the 1980s? They should be way higher. Alcohol should be way more expensive. It's horrible for you. I don't drink alcohol. There's a reason for it. This is the problem, though, is that socially, everybody just is accepting this, like, 1990s stoner propaganda that everything is chill and there's no problems or whatever. And now we have the results, like teenager psychosis problems. There's, in fact, doctors have had to invent new names for the problems when teenagers in particular use extremely high levels of thc. And then it causes vomiting. You can end up in the hospital. It actually gets stored in your fat cells. It's craziness. And this happens to, you know, to babies as well, from mothers who use cannabis, their favorite word, instead of weed, for their. While they're pregnant. And it's the same thing. Everybody know about fetal alcohol syndrome, but cannabis. Oh, it's got health properties or anything, because one person with glaucoma is using. It's ridiculous. So, anyway, that's the end of my rant. It's not the end of your rant. I'll continue.

[Ryan Grim]

But you were like, woody, like, you just go over.

[Krystal Ball]

I can just keep going. I can keep going.

[Ryan Grim]

But I actually had a question. You're saying that the rescheduling here is about access to banking?

[Krystal Ball]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Tell us more about that, because that's. So what happens when you reschedule and then as it pertains to the monies.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, so right now. This is crazy, by the way, is right now, weed is Federally illegal. Schedule 1 status.

[Ryan Grim]

I didn't remember people working in the Biden White House couldn't smoke marijuana that was legal in D.C. you really want.

[Krystal Ball]

Potheads running our government? I don't. Okay. I don't want daily drinkers running for our government either. All right, so drug trust, everybody be fine with me. So let's think about this. The Schedule 1 status means that the big banks in particular, do not want to accept your business. It's also much more difficult for these pot companies to raise money to gain access to, let's say, venture capital, rounds, et cetera. A lot of called LPs and funds. They have vice clauses in there where they're like, we don't want to invest in anything that Makes it risky for our investment. Okay? So that's the main problem. Now, this has caused issues because banking is access to credit markets and basically the ability to borrow. Yeah, exactly. And it costs them a lot of problems because they have all this cash on hand and they need to move it by armored trucks. It's all crazy. And they have to use. Basically, it's like a shadow banking system. Even though absolute oceans of money and all this are being made, what they want access to is the ability to basically become big Tobacco. They want to be totally legitimized in the federal legal code. They want zero regulation, which again, currently they don't have. Everyone always says, yeah, we need regulation. We're long past that, people. All right, this high potency stuff and all that. The reality is it's not happening, and it won't. People are already massively addicted to this high potency thc and nobody even really wants to acknowledge the problem. So to go to Schedule 3 status, it makes access to the banking system almost. Not immediate, but much, much easier for these companies. It lets Goldman Sachs and all these venture capital funds pour as much money into these as possible, and it will massively increase the current lobbying in the same way that Big Tobacco had for years. Right? They were able to hire all of these massive lobbyists. That's already part of the problem. These people have become so filthy r that they're hiring all these conservative influencers and others. They're paying them hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just so everybody understands, let's get into this.

[Ryan Grim]

Okay, so let's put D3 on the screen. This is Alex Brucewicz. So if you're not on Twitter, you might not know the name Alex Brucewicz, but the headline here in the drug report is Alex Brucewicz's company took $300,000 from a pro weed pack days before he said he had, quote, unquote, no personal stake in rescheduling in the rescheduling fight, basically. So that's what Bruce wood said on July 11. It turns out his company, according to the drug report, was paid $300,000 by the American Rights and Reform PAC, which has been, as Josh Dossey put it in the Wall Street Journal, seeded with money from the industry. And I believe that PAC also gave a million dollars to Trump's inaugural PAC or campaign pac. I'll look it up while you talk.

[Krystal Ball]

I have nothing personal against Alex. These may be his views, but. But the fact is, is that he and many others have obviously a financial incentive to be talking about this. And by the way, that fits with Matt Gaetz. Who? Look the guy, I'll give him credit. He actually has mostly held these views for quite a long time. Many years.

[Ryan Grim]

He's not bought and paid for.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't think he's bought and paid for. It doesn't hurt having the support because I also know that he's had a lot of money that flowed into him from these weed companies over the years and they're now trying to frame this as some major populist decision. D4, please. Let's put it on the screen. It's populism meets practicality. Suddenly MAGA hats in line at the dispensary. Patriots buying pre rolls called 1776 Freedom Kush. Beautiful. Now don't get me wrong, there are still people clutching their pearls saying buying marijuana is a gateway drug. Yeah, so is drinking Mountain Dew if you consume enough of it. In reality, marijuana is more like a gateway to eating three sleeves of Oreos and having deep thoughts about how ceiling fans work. Yeah, I mean, I thought this was Maha. Is that what we want? We want people to eat two sleeves of Oreo, by the way. Yeah, Mountain Dew is horrible for you. It's like, what are we sitting around and defending it? It drives me crazy. But the point is, is that at the end of the day, I will acknowledge everything I'm saying is deeply unpopular. I get it. You know people, you like to get high, fine. But don't sit here and gaslight me about how because one child was helped by not getting a seizure, who by the way still has access to it if they want to, that that it's healthy or that you need more study or for application or any of these, these big companies, they care about it for one reason. It's obviously highly. If you're all using it every single day, you're addicted. You're addicted to weed and they're willing to sell it to you in the same way that these alcohol companies and these gambling companies who I go after are. These people are scum. They do it specifically because they know that they can peddle it to you and that you need it and you're a dependent customer. I think that's really gross, you know, and I've even looked at other models that might work. The only one I could ever potentially support would be a highly regulated and a non profit system. There's some areas in Canada actually which do this, which we remove the judicial problem, which by the way, is fake. There's nobody who goes to jail for marijuana. You can fact check me if you want on that? 0 people go to jail for smoking marijuana or for possession of marijuana. They go to for possession of drugs. And even then, that's only 3.2% of the entire state prison population. Zero inmates are currently federally incarcerated for possession of marijuana. The only marijuana related offenses are people who are high level cartel drug traffickers who are probably involved in a whole lot other mess than just moving weed across the border. And also, oh, lo and behold, the cartel business here in America in the illegal weed market remains thriving even in states of California where weed has been legal now for quite some time because they undercut the legitimate price. So my point just around the entire thing is that the road that we are on is unregulated, unchecked, massive addiction. The intersection between marijuana and big capitalism, which is it is right now. And if that's what you want, okay, just say it though, you know, be honest about really the road that we're all leading down to. And everyone says, what about alcohol? The way alcohol is right now is horrible, horrible. Especially if you look at the way that people are. If you look at the drinking rates post Covid, it was a disaster. And the way that the taxes and everything continue to go low on it and we have these like sin industries which become massively extractive. Nobody can sit here and tell me that it's a good thing. There needs to be much more deep thought. The gambling thing is another example around it.

[Ryan Grim]

This is what I was just gonna say. I mean, so gambling, to me, I'm as radical as you are on that. There's truly nothing else like app online sports betting that exists right now. And that's what's complicated about the marijuana conversation. Because between alcohol, sugar, all kinds of these actual addictive substances, marijuana can make an argument that these are also harmful in similar ways. And I mean, I agree with that. And that's sort of where I think the Maha conversation is an interesting one in the context of marijuana, where it's just like we already have set the bar across the board for what we allow into our food system and what we tolerate and you are consistent and you say that should all be different, but I don't think most people would agree that we should treat alcohol as you were arguing, should be way higher taxes on alcohol. I don't think most people would agree with that.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I know people like to drink, I get it. Okay, I understand. But I don't know what to say. Look at what it does to your body. Look at there is you want more.

[Ryan Grim]

Studies on alcohol, but what they're saying is that. Look at what it does to your body. Sure, we know. But, hey, I'm choosing to do it, and I'm an adult. So that's where I think, for marijuana, it becomes genuinely okay. But you can consume as much sugar as you want. If you can consume as much alcohol as you want. That's where I see a difference between gambling and marijuana. I'm not saying I'm, like, actually pretty ambivalent on this. I don't know what the right answer is, but it's difficult.

[Krystal Ball]

But let's compare it then to cigarettes. So, yeah, cigarettes are.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, exactly.

[Krystal Ball]

Do you know how much it costs of Griffin, text me and tell me how much is a pack of cigarettes in New York City today? What am I guessing, like, 19 bucks? Maybe 17. I'm waiting for him to tell me, so let's. So, yeah, 18 to $20. If you go to North Carolina, a state which doesn't tax. How much is a pack of cigarettes? Five bucks. That's 15 extra bucks. We're like, hey, you want to smoke? Okay, fine. It's going to be massively taxed. At the same time, it is going to be paired with unending. Do not smoke. Smoking is bad for you in school from the time you're, what, like 4 years old? If that was the social norm, I'd say, okay, fine, but that's not the social norm. The social norm is one where you have a modest tax on the marijuana and you have an entire society, which is basically things. It's like giggling Cheech and Chong is the way this is all. It's like, no, that's not what's happening, by the way. Oh, people are like, oh, what about alcohol? Yeah, add it to the schools. Nobody'd be happier than me if we educate people about what actually it does to your body or any of that. But what I am objecting to is not just the government policy and the corruption behind the scenes.

[Ryan Grim]

You're objecting to the social.

[Krystal Ball]

The entire social conversation around this is one. I agree. That acts like it has zero downside. Yes, Very similar to alcohol. Most people have no idea until very, very recently what alcohol actually does to the body because of social stigma. Everyone's like, oh, it's totally fine. This is just part of our culture or whatever. And all of the studies, just like they've done on alcohol and marijuana, prove the deleterious effects. At the end of the day, sure, you can make your own decision, but government policy should be engineered around trying to actually get good outcomes, and that is the opposite of what we're having right now. So that's the end of my rant. If you made it this far.

[Ryan Grim]

I'll also just add the lobbying is particularly gross in this space because it's just. I mean, the Josh Dossey story is worth reading. It's really similar to what happened with crypto, where people realized that if you can sit down across the table with Donald Trump and meet him, if you can make a smart argument, knowing what Trump wants to hear, which is, according to the Dossey article, he wants to be on the 80 side of 8020 issues. And politically part of Trump's genius there and what happened is he got all this money from people associated with trulieve and the PACs and. And supported the legalization in Florida last year. And that's now happening at a federal scale. And it's very similar to what happened with Trump in crypto. You get in front of him, you make a clever argument that, you know, is along the lines of what he wants to hear. And he's pleased to be in negotiation to have people come kiss the ring and make deals with him. And that's happening now with something that affects lots of kids and their lives, too. And crypto does as well. I mean, crypto is going to affect people's. It's obviously currently affecting people's real lives.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it's like a 401k thing. By the way, update on the blockfi. I have finally gotten all my money back. It only took three and a half years after the company went bankrupt. I really have no idea how they did it, but I did actually get it back. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it didn't grow, so the opportunity cost is high. But, yeah, I got it back. I have no idea. Thank you to the bankruptcy attorneys. I recently got an email and I was like, wow, I thought this money was gone forever.

[Ryan Grim]

It's back. Amazing news. Yeah, amazing news.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, let's go to Tucker.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Grim]

Tucker Carlson yesterday dropped an episode of his show which featured George Stephanopoulos sister who's a nun who lived for a long time in the Holy Land and the conversation was focused on the plight of Christians in the Holy Land. What it is like from this nun's perspective. Mother Stephanopoulos I suppose to live as a Christian in the Holy Land and it's gone massively viral. Sagar this just on YouTube alone is already at a million views and it's been up for about 24 hours and it's definitely pinging around a lot in in Christian circles. No surprise there. So let's just get a flavor of, of what this woman told Tucker Carlson. We can roll the first element here.

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

What does yellow license plate mean? Yellow plate is for people who live in the state of Israel and they can go on certain roads, all roads. And for Palestinians who have a Jerusalem ID are allowed to have a car with a yellow plate. And then Palestinians have green and white plates and they cannot use. So over that time that I've been here, as settlements have grown, you build the infrastructure for it, the electricity, the roads, separate roads that are used only by people that have yellow plates. As a foreigner and part of a foreign church, we were entitled to have either those or they also have white diplomatic and religious plates that are there. So there's very much an apartheid system.

[Ryan Grim]

So Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos is a Russian Orthodox nun, the sister of George Stephanopoulos. They talk a little bit in their interview, actually about what it's been like for her brother George Stephanopoulos to get heat over the years as she shared her perspective mostly about Israel. SAGAR so that's where this is causing already predictable levels of controversy on the right because she's very, very anti Israel in this episode and throughout her whole career.

[Krystal Ball]

She's her, yeah, look, the episode consistently I found valuable because she's like, look, I'm a nun. I live in the Holy Land. Here is my daily interaction with the Muslim population. Here is what it's like being a nun in my Orthodox Christian community in doing ministry, in going to these churches in Gaza and generally observing what things are like and what she is talking about. The main criticism I've seen is that it's preposterous for Tucker to interview her about Christian destruction because Christianity is growing in Israel. But everyone then ignored that. She's talking about the west bank. And what she's talking about is the separate system and Gaza as well, and Gaza. And she's talking about the separate system and the war on these settlers, on many of these communities, many of which are also Christian. And of the two tiered, not even two tiered system of justice, there's justice for one and then there's not for other. And that's the part that is so annoying is everybody, the Israeli defenders will say in one breath that the west bank is in Israel, but that then they will cite the policies of the officially recognized Israel. And it's like, well, if you combine the two things are a little bit different, though. It's like, yeah, Arab Israelis can vote in Israel. How does it work when she's talking about the yellow license plate. And also the settler thing is a much more urgent question today because it used to actually be controversial in Israel. There were a lot of Israelis who are against it. There might still be, but it's part of the governing coalition now. To not just support them, to arm them and to protect them with military force is almost certainly coming to Gaza very soon. So then the question of how do they act outside of currently recognized Israel or what Israel calls itself Israel and in greater Israel. Well, that becomes the urgent question of that treatment which she has now lived through for many years and why I thought her perspective was very valuable. She also. Yeah, go ahead.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, no, I mean, it's just super interesting stuff. And we, it was a long conversation. So we have a selection of highlights. Do you want to get to this mainstream media?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Well, this is important because she talks about her brother who works at George Stephanopoulos. But more importantly, what she talks about is the way that mass media in the US Frames the issue and the conversation. Let's take a listen.

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

It's certainly a great problem right now. I mean, and even with this we're dealing now, it's becoming a lot of publicity on the start, even though it's being distorted. I actually watched the news this morning and James Stavridis is on and he's talking about it's all Hamas and they show the emaciated hostage and as if, you know, we would, everything would be okay if only Hamas would release the hostage. And that's the starvation when it's taking place. Millions of people are being starved, babies are dying there and we're focused. God, I hope the hostage gets freed. He should get freed and he should get freed. And Israel should remove themselves from Gaza and allow the food to get in. And Christians should be pushing for that. And I think we are seeing that to some degree now, but it's still obscuring the main point. Like I said, the unspoken thing when I talk to all my friends on the west bank now is that they know we're next, that it's going to happen. And it will happen. Maybe we'll go back to that time where it'll be more like they play a long game, even with this settlement building we'll build. And then if America gives a little bit of pushback, okay, we stop for a while and then we start again. So maybe even in the west bank for now.

[Krystal Ball]

So, yeah, I mean, I think that that perspective is very valuable from her. Again, as somebody who currently experience so much of this stuff and where she really kicked, I think the hornet's nest was by claiming that Christian fundamentalist support for Israel is heresy. Now, I am not Christian and I am not going to get engaged in theological debates, but you tell me what the response to that was.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, let's roll the clip. This is going to be E3, and it's not surprising at all for a Russian Orthodox nun to me at this point. We'll get into it on the back end. This is E3.3.

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

Just like many Jews are protesting and saying not in our name, there has to be much more done by the Christians in America because these Christian Zionists are speaking in our name. Someone like Ted Cruz is saying and doing what he's doing because he's following a Christianity that is not the Christianity of the Holy Land.

[Krystal Ball]

We are commanded as Christians to support.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The government of Israel.

[Krystal Ball]

We are commanded to support Israel.

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

It's a heretical belief.

[Krystal Ball]

What is Christian Zionism?

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

It's sort of this, this cruel bargain they have going with Israel because basically what they say, that they're going to be swooped up into heaven. Right. And then there's going to be a thousand year kingdom and then there'll be the end of the world and the judgment by Christ and he'll come back. This is a false. It was, it was condemned as a heresy in 381 because basically there is no thousand year millennium to come. No thousand year period. We are in that time period now. It's, it's a false belief there.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So basically what they're arguing is that.

[Krystal Ball]

Jesus coming the first time wasn't enough.

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

Yeah. And it's like, in a way, it's denying the Messiah.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, tell me, tell me what's.

[Ryan Grim]

Going on so we don't have to get into the whole premillennial dispensationalist thing again. But that's basically what she's talking about. Ryan and I talked about extensively in our Red Heifer segment that Ryan reported out last week and we're talking about before, too. But the idea that there's a rapture and then it's mostly evangelicals. Now, as an evangelical, you hear sometimes those arguments made, and I would say it was probably the case in that interview that comes across as just anti Protestant, which is still sensitive. I don't take any offense to that. I think it did sound sort of anti Protestant. But to say it's a heresy to me, as much as I disagree with it and think it's dangerous. This is a semantic conversation. It's just a Bad interpretation. And it's a bad. It's, I think, a thin interpretation to base your foreign policy on. It's not a crazy interpretation of Scripture. It's just in many cases a very literal interpretation of Scripture. So I wouldn't go so far as to call it a heresy. But she did call it a heresy.

[Krystal Ball]

Which is consistent with their belief.

[Ryan Grim]

She's rational Orthodox.

[Krystal Ball]

She cited some. Again, this is like, you know, my experience with this is like the Da Vinci Code. But like talking about. She was like, in 350 A.D. they declared it.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm like 3 81.

[Krystal Ball]

Sure, whatever. I'll take your word for it.

[Ryan Grim]

She's Russian Orthodox. Yeah. She's not a Protestant. So it's not offensive. But I think most people would say it's not so much heretical. It's not Gnosticism, but it's a very literal interpretation and it's thin grained rule for your foreign policy, which is a very fair point. Like the Red Heifer segment we had last week. It's just to base your foreign policy around this, as ostensibly Mike Huckabee and Mike Johnson and Ted Cruz do. That's really a serious problem. And I think that's probably what's most offensive is not calling it a heresy because that's more semantic. I mean, premillennial dispensationalists know that they're kind of. A lot of people disagree with them and think that, that they're bananas. But I think what's more offensive is this idea that your lifelong support for the Israeli state, the Israeli government, political Israel. I think it's a more sensitive topic because it hits a live wire for a lot of people that you kind of look around and you realize, hmm, guess some of this maybe was wrong. Yeah, I, that's why it's so sensitive.

[Krystal Ball]

I would hope so. Let's do E4 as well. Her talking about.

[Ryan Grim]

I think this is what was most most. Yeah, this seemed to be the most controversial.

[Krystal Ball]

This is what people got upset about. All right, let's take a listen. I mean, I'm sure you've dealt with Hama or no people who. Right. Are they religious fanatics?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Are they jihadis?

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

Not the people that I know. Like I said when I, when I was again in, in at the school, we had a couple teachers, meslam men, and there were some elections going on and it wasn't Hamas then. It wasn't.

[Ryan Grim]

It was.

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

It was the Social Party or somebody. It was definitely a religious, Muslim religious party. I would have voted for those guys because they Weren't corrupt, they wanted to serve their people and that's what it was about. So I'm not saying it doesn't happen anywhere. I'm not totally ingrained in the community. But the vibe there isn't one of wanting everybody to convert to Islam and forcing it upon them at all.

[Ryan Grim]

At all.

[Mother Agapia Stephanopoulos]

And the purpose of Hamas is primarily to resist and to protect their people and their land.

[Ryan Grim]

And she's a bit cagey when Tucker asks if you can proselytize and she says we don't really do that because we're orthodox, it's not part of our faith. But Sager, again, important point that a lot of people do want to gloss over. Hamas is not exactly the same as isis. Right. Like there are distinctions between one or the other.

[Krystal Ball]

It's political organization.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, it's a political organization. They're very. I mean, I guess you can call ISIS one too. But they're very meaningful distinctions. It doesn't mean one is great, it means that it's different.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I mean the take I saw was that she's reluctant to say it because then she couldn't be able to go back. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, at the end of the day, I guess I'll take her word for it. I would probably wanna say you could ask other people who are Christian in let's say Gaza and or in the west bank about their general experience. Cuz those are the ones ultimately you have to deal, you know, with the population. I did think what was kind of interesting talking or listening to her was just about the Islamic and Christian communities who live side by side there.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

And she did not make it seem as if it was the Muslim population that was driving them out. She much more laid the blame at Israel. I don't know if that is to be true. It is, it is just interesting though to hear her say that. And I was like, well, you know, I mean, I'm assuming there's, I mean what incentive do you have for a Christian leader to not say, to say the otherwise.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, so I think it's very obviously true when you're talking about some of these sites. And she makes a really interesting argument about Jacob's. Well and other sites in the west bank where for Muslims these sites, or actually here's an even better example, some of the sites where Jesus birthplace. Yeah, those are really, those are actually also important sites to Muslims because obviously they incorporate Jesus into Islam and always have. And so they have incentives to protect these holy sites for Christians in the same way that Christians have incentives to protect their holy sites. But if you are Israel, what incentive do you have to protect a site that has to do with Jesus who you believe was a false messiah? So from that perspective of just purely preserving the history, there's obviously like the Venn diagram has an overview overlap on the question of like holy sites for people who believe in Jesus Christ. So I thought that point was interesting. She's basically saying there's a real risk with settlements and such of these holy sites being completely obliterated because the Israelis may have reason to preserve Jacob's. Well, but what reason do they have to preserve Christian like Christ centered holy sites? Not really much at all. And it's a legitimate risk. But yeah, the Hamas stuff. Did it sound like she maybe was a little. A little tense? Yeah, she was like.

[Krystal Ball]

She was like, they're, you know, they're defending their people. I was like, wow. I mean, you know, theoretically, I guess technically true. Maybe she has her own incentive. She probably, if I had to guess, is just one who is so horrified by Israel that she doesn't want to fall any trap, which I actually think I do understand that she did not.

[Ryan Grim]

Want to make it sound like by criticizing Hamas. And you can take issue with this argument. Yeah, exactly. She didn't want to fall into. You called it a trap, I think is exactly right. That was my interpretation.

[Krystal Ball]

It's like the Piers Morgan, you know, like, do you. But do you condemn Hamas? Do you condemn Hamas? And by the way, she was like, yes, the hostage should be released. Anyway, interesting convo. I'm glad that I at least got your perspective on it. Let's get to Epstein.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's big three is the surprise hit of the summer. This Saturday, 4pm Eastern on CBS. With playoff elimination on the line, the stars will be flocking to Los Angeles to witness the most physical, fiercest and competitive basketball in the world. Miami's Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson must win over Houston to make the playoffs, reeling from last week's savage beating at the hands of Chicago's possessed Montrez Herald. Last time round these teams met Miami beat Houston, but they are a dangerous team having their manhood at stake. Then breakout star Dwight Howard of the LA Riot will battle Gary Payton's Boston squad in a do or die match for both teams. Will LA avenge their previous shocking loss to perennial basketball Boston rivals To survive, six teams are allowed for four spots and all must win. Don't miss the Big Three, the three on three basketball league. Everyone is talking about there's no crying in the Big Big Three. And the no hold Spart action starts Saturday at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific, followed by two games on Vice starting at 6:30 Eastern.

[Emily]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

Hashtag Release the Cuomo list. That is the new campaign push from Zoran Mamdani, Democratic nominee, not Andrew Cuomo for Mayor of New York City. Obviously everyone is familiar with him, but let's go ahead and take a look at this ad that Zoron dropped yesterday with releaseThe Cuomo list now tying Andrew Cuomo, his opponent, who he obviously defeated in the Democratic primary, to the Epstein list. Let's roll the clip.

[Krystal Ball]

Four years ago, Andrew Cuomo resigned in disgrace and you probably know why. The governor's office kept the nursing home death data secret.

[Ryan Grim]

Cuomo aggressively groped and aide inappropriately touched.

[Krystal Ball]

A female state trooper use of state resources for a COVID 19 memoir. Less well known is what he spent the last four years doing besides Getting trounced in the Democratic primary. In 2022, Cuomo started Innovation Strategies LLC to represent individuals and corporations in a variety of matters. Definitely not vague. Last year, it raked in more than half a million dollars.

[Ryan Grim]

Who paid for Cuomo's services?

[Krystal Ball]

He refuses to say. But what journalists have been able to piece together together is troubling. In April, Bloomberg revealed that Cuomo advised a cryptocurrency exchange based on the Seychelles as it faced federal investigations. Then in May, Politico reported that Cuomo failed to disclose $2.6 million in stock options to the New York City Conflicts of Interest Board. His excuse? The stocks were technically owned by Innovation Strategies llc, of which he's the sole proprietor. Finally, in June, the New York Times uncovered that Cuomo had worked with his longtime friend Andrew Fart on a luxury marina project in Puerto Rico. Farkas, previous partner on luxury marinas in the Caribbean, Jeffrey Epstein.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We had a finance chair like none other.

[Krystal Ball]

Andrew Farkas. That's the thing about Andrew Cuomo. Once you think you found out about all of his scandals, you find out about another, and then another, and then probably another. But if my friend, the disgraced former governor of the state of New York, feels that's unfair. Habibi, release your client list. Ooh.

[Ryan Grim]

Release the client list.

[Krystal Ball]

I like it. I like it.

[Ryan Grim]

So let's put the next element on the screen. This is a. A tweet that went mega viral and said, breaking Andrew Cuomo is on the Epstein list. But you know what that article links to? Sagar, is a story about the binders that Pam Bondi released in late February, which all of this was already known, has been known for a really long time. Another thing I noted in the Cuomo video that Mamdani just put out, actually, they're tying him more to Covid in that as well. Yeah, you get images of COVID Yeah, it is, yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

What were what they were talking about with the square Epstein list? Binder is like you said, of the contacts that were included in there, by the way, we can put that on the screen from the New York Post if we want to. F3, please. And it says, you know, the Epstein contact list included such luminaries as Alec Baldwin, Michael Jackson, Mick Jagger, and RFK Jr. S mom. I will say, you know, again, to be fair, and this is what they always say, there were people in the black book, apparently, who literally had never corresponded with him. So in some cases, like, he would keep their information, but they didn't necessarily know it. But the point beyond the Zoron Ad is more about using it as a political vector. Yes. And I think very effectively. I've seen some Democrats try to do this in the past. Of course, the COVID connection in general. What do you want to gin up against Andrew Cuomo is this was a corrupt governor, he has sketchy ties in the past, and he literally, his policies killed people whenever he was the governor. Why would you want somebody as that as New York? All of that is true.

[Ryan Grim]

Sexual misconduct allegations against him, which the. Epstein, you're pouring gasoline on it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I think those two things together are effective. And I mean, Cuomo himself just seems to be going through some like mental crisis. Like in his attacks on Zoron, he's like, you know, I'm the son of, you know, what does he say? I'm a boxer. Like, I'll meet you in the ring, he said.

[Ryan Grim]

He also said fly like a butterfly, thing like a bee.

[Krystal Ball]

Which Muhammad. Yeah, right. Yeah. It's like, what are you doing here? Like, you know, and I think what it all kind of comes together with in his strategy is presenting himself as a tough guy. Yep, that's, that's what it seems to me. But you know, the problem is in the current split field, I think all it's doing is consolidating the support right now for Zorin because you have Silwa, you have Adams, you have Cuomo, all of those together, they're going to split any so called moderate vote.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, you also, you don't look like a tough guy when you lost.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, of course. How could you?

[Ryan Grim]

To an upstart 30, something like state legislator, it just, you can't come back from that and look tough. Even if you have all the resources in the world because you were just outgunned by somebody with no resources. Like there's just no way to recover your tough reputation. Clearly what he has is some type of like teenager or with somebody with a teenage mentality running his Twitter account and posting those things. Exactly what you said you would.

[Krystal Ball]

Hope so.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, those quotes that you just alluded to where he's referencing his dad and fly like a butterfly, sting like. I mean, it just crazy stuff. But he clearly hired somebody to run his social media in a way that makes it look like he's having a mental breakdown and is about to buy a red convertible and do some more adultery.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And keeping with the Epstein thing, the more that there is like a cover up mentality to it, I think the more this will resonate amongst Democrats. And we've seen this all of A sudden, some of the Democratic Influencer Council or whatever, they're going crazy with Epstein, which is fine with me. Anything that leads to the release of more information is totally cool political. Let's put the F4, please, up on the screen just to give everybody an update. The judge will not unseal grand jury papers of Ghislaine Maxwell or Ghislaine Maxwell after Donald Trump and the administration asked them to. So that kind of defeats the alleged transparency that they were going for by saying that they were going to ask the judge to release the grand jury information. Both Maxwell's attorney and the government previously had opposed the release of such documents. And so now the judge has basically been like, yeah, no, we're not gonna do it. And Ghislaine is miraculously still in the federal prison camp in my hometown, Bryan, Texas. And, yeah, I should go. When I go back, I should go and survey, because apparently, in a federal prison camp. So there was some story going around, work release, apparently. It's not true. Her lawyer denies that she has work release. But you do have, like, more limited interaction, like, with people in the community, possibly. Like, especially because some people do have work release there who would know her. So I need to go and investigate the next time that I go home.

[Ryan Grim]

No, you do.

[Krystal Ball]

Apparently. You can go, even go take photos. The Daily Mail has photos of Elizabeth Holmes, daily workouts, and Jen Shaw from.

[Ryan Grim]

Real Housewives in Salt Lake City. That's right.

[Krystal Ball]

We shouldn't. We shouldn't her as well down in Club Fed. So maybe I'll do that. I'll do the paparazzi thing. I'll go. I'll shout some questions at Glenn and see if I can get an interview with her.

[Ryan Grim]

This judge's response was pretty annoying.

[Krystal Ball]

Why so? Why do you think?

[Ryan Grim]

Well, I mean, it's just like they're saying there's nothing new. Public's not going to learn, and obviously they don't want to breach the grand jury. I get it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

But if that's the case, just let us see it.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, it's complicated because I think it was designed to fail. Right. The point is not to point to these tiles.

[Ryan Grim]

I totally agree.

[Krystal Ball]

The point is, what's in the government's purview Already ready if they wanted to release, which they fully have. They have 100,000 documents compiled in the FBI. They have so many documents, treasury, bank reports, et cetera, all of which are totally open and subpoenaed by Congress, except which they're blocking. They're not allowing them to have it. So I'm hoping that at least some of it does come out at some point, because even these Republican politicians, when they eventually come back to town in two weeks, the Oversight Committee and others have subpoenaed Ghislaine Mack Maxwell. They've subpoenaed some of these records. Right. So more information actually could still be coming out.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So let's just pause. Just one more thing to add on that. A lot of people were following Thomas Massie's post yesterday about how Trump can't do recess appointments to fill hundreds of empty seats in his administration because GOP House and Senate, I'm quoting here, hold pro forma sessions to block him. Meanwhile, bureaucrats carry on as if they report to no one. Here's the one they held today in an empty chamber. And he posted a video of a pro forma session happening in an empty chain. Someone tagged us in response to the Massie tweet and said, what can you find out about this? So I asked a source, and this is also Epstein related. The reason, basically, that you can assume, we can assume that they're doing these pro forma sessions that block Trump's own recess appointments is because in all likelihood, Trump agreed with Mike Johnson and John Thune to do this to block the recess appointments in order to avoid a vote on the Epstein bill. So, again, all of these things that are, like, designed to fail, that you just. I think that was perfect description, what you just mentioned. That is what the Trump administration is now pushing under the banner of trying to ascertain some level of transparency and to get more information out into the public. There are all of these, like, stall mechanisms that we're starting to see, I think, pop up, and that'll likely be the course of the next three years.

[Krystal Ball]

The administration, I agree with that. All right, Emily, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Thanks for letting me hijack the show and rant about weed. That's the only you would let me allow. Let me do it.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, I learned.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, did I? I hope the audience.

[Ryan Grim]

I always do. And I. My favorite thing is that you had to drink out of a mug with my Ryan's face.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't mind at all.

[Ryan Grim]

This is beautiful.

[Krystal Ball]

Listen, I don't care. You know, it's good for us. It's good for the company. All right, guys, thank you so much for watching. I'll be on with Crystal tomorrow. We'll see you then.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Ice Cube's big three is the surprise hit of the summer. This Saturday, 4pm Eastern on CBS with playoff elimination on the line the most physical, fiercest and competitive basketball in the world. Miami's Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson must win to make the playoffs and breakout star Dwight Howard of the LA Riots will battle Gary Payton's Boston squad in a do or die match for both teams. Six teams are allowed for four spots and all must win. There's no crying in the big three and the no holds barred action starts Saturday at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific. Presented by iHeart.

[Emily]

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[Krystal Ball]

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