8/18/25: Laura Loomer Blocks Gaza Child Treatment In US, Mayor Pete Panics Over Israel, Fort Bragg Cartel Book

Summary

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Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode: August 18, 2025
Main Topics: Laura Loomer and Gaza Child Visas, Mayor Pete’s Israel Backlash, Fort Bragg Cartel and Special Forces Crime
Hosts: Krystal Ball & Saagar Enjeti
Guest: Seth Harp (author, “The Fort Bragg Cartel”)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the intersection of US foreign policy, humanitarian crises, and domestic politics, examining:

• Laura Loomer’s influence on US policy for Gaza children seeking medical care
• The Democratic Party’s struggle to articulate a clear response on Israel/Gaza, highlighted by Buttigieg’s recent stumbles
• A revealing interview with Seth Harp about his investigation into drug trafficking, crime, and moral injury within US Special Forces at Fort Bragg

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1. Laura Loomer and the Blocking of Gaza Child Medical Visas

[02:38–16:51]

Context

• Far-right activist Laura Loomer tweeted about Palestinians entering the US for treatment, pressuring the State Department to halt their visitor visas.
• The children, many injured by US-supplied weaponry, had been granted temporary B2 visas for humanitarian/medical reasons.
• The move generated outrage, including accusations that these children or accompanying adults had terrorist ties.

Key Discussion Points

• State Department Reaction: Following Loomer’s tweet, the State Dept. paused all medical/humanitarian visitor visas for Gazans to review possible security concerns.
• Krystal’s Explanation: These visas are highly temporary (6 months), used only for humanitarian medical aid — “They’re not eligible for work, for permanent residency. That’s what we’re talking about here.” (Krystal, 04:36)
• Double Standards: Krystal and Saagar highlight how the US treats Israelis and Palestinians differently, e.g., allowing Israeli citizens to flee charges while blocking Palestinian children in need.
• Moral Outrage: Saagar channels right-wing talking points and responds, “If you don't want a lot of refugees displaced, then stop backing the fucking wars that displace them.” (07:57)
• Child Profiled: The case of 11-year-old Yassine Al Galban, who lost his legs in a US-backed airstrike and was brought to Atlanta for prosthetics, is featured (12:27–12:57).
• Weaponized Hysteria: Krystal: “What drives me nuts is the way we have all this double standard…[Palestinian] kids are being allowed for medical treatment in very limited numbers…That is what Laura Loomer objects to. And that is who the State Department is listening to in blocking these visas.” (04:25–05:00)
• Debate Over End Goals: Both hosts agree the real humanitarian response would be to stop funding the wars creating these medical needs.

Notable Quotes

• Saagar:

  “Our tax dollars went to destroying and turning all of Gaza, including yes, the medical system, into rubble. And so given that context to then object to…a small number of kids coming here…to me it is so depraved, it is so sick as to be almost beyond words.” (08:35)

• Krystal (on US hypocrisy):

  “We literally just let an Israeli pedophile flee the...allegedly...pedophile flee the country after he was caught in a sting here. That’s no diplomatic outcry. State Department probably facilitated it.” (06:43)

Timestamps of Segments

• State Department blocks visas: [02:38–05:01]
• Double standards, Israel/Palestine/hate crime probes: [06:00–07:57]
• Conditions in Gaza, US role, right-wing framing: [07:57–09:43]
• Broader refugee political debate: [09:43–12:12]
• Profiles of Palestinian child, critique of Loomer narratives: [12:12–16:51]

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2. Mayor Pete Buttigieg’s Israel Comment Backlash and The Democratic Litmus Test

[19:22–33:52]

Context

• Pete Buttigieg fumbled questions about Palestinian state recognition on Pod Save America, followed by further unclear remarks in Politico.
• Democrats are struggling with internal division and activist pressure to use the term “genocide” for Israel’s actions in Gaza.

Key Discussion Points

• Pete’s “Gobbledygook” Answers: Buttigieg dodged a direct answer on recognizing a Palestinian state, prompting online backlash.
• Clean-up Attempt: He later told Politico about the need for a “credible and enforceable and negotiated process,” but the hosts saw it as more evasiveness.
• Changing Base Expectations: Both Krystal and Saagar agree this kind of political ambiguity is no longer acceptable among Democrats.
• Symbolism of Language: Saagar argues using the word “genocide” is now a moral clarity test within Democratic politics.

  “If you aren’t willing to stand up against a genocide, how can we trust you to stand up against Trump? Stand up for democracy?” (26:21)

• Broader Party Shift: They discuss Democratic whip Katherine Clark’s recent description of Gaza as a genocide at an event, showing a slow shift among Democratic leaders (31:14).
• Debate Over Policy vs. Rhetoric: Krystal is skeptical whether saying ‘genocide’ itself will be the ultimate litmus test, arguing bread-and-butter policy matters more.

Notable Quotes

• Krystal:

  “I support no more weapons to the state of Israel. That is the like horseshoe between whatever is left of liberal Zionism and of the activist class.” (23:25)

• Saagar on Significance of Language:

  “I think the language of calling it a genocide is going to be important too, because it’s a signal.” (25:53)

• Krystal pushback:

  “That just seems very, like, defund the police logic…If you’re gonna get everything you want on a policy level, just shut up and take it.” (26:53)

Timestamps of Segments

• Buttigieg’s stumble and clean-up: [19:22–23:25]
• Democratic policy litmus tests (genocide, weapons, rhetoric): [23:25–33:52]

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3. Interview: Seth Harp—Fort Bragg Cartel, War Crimes, and US Special Forces

[36:28–56:54]

Guest Introduction

• Seth Harp is an investigative journalist and author of “The Fort Bragg Cartel: Drug Trafficking and Murder in the Special Forces.”

Key Discussion Points

• Premise of Book: Investigates unsolved Special Forces murders at Fort Bragg, unfolding a larger story of drug trafficking and impunity among elite soldiers affected by decades at war.
• War and Heroin Connection: Harp details how the US occupation of Afghanistan led to a flood of Afghan heroin into the US market.

  “My book tries to show how the majority of that heroin came from Afghanistan while it was under occupation by US forces…” (38:46)

• Extreme Details from Reporting:
  • Allegations include Special Forces dogs with titanium teeth, and at least one developing a taste for human flesh (confirmed as credible via video evidence).
  • Widespread drug addiction, “gangsterism,” and unsolved murders running rampant.
• Pushback and Reporting Integrity: Harp insists all named individuals or their units were contacted for comment, despite some community backlash.
• Origins and Role of Delta Force: Traces its evolution from elite counterterrorism to a “death squad” conducting nightly raids/killings in Iraq and Afghanistan.
• Impact on Troops: The endless cycle of deployments led to severe psychological toll, drug problems, and increasingly criminal behavior at home.

  “Relying on the Special Forces to wage wars out of sight and out of mind of the public is really, I think, a deliberate policy choice...But you end up having the same guys deployed again and again...and that does terrible things.” (46:45)

• Example Case: Enrique Roman Martinez Beheading:
  • Martinez, a low-level soldier selling psychedelics, disappeared on a camping trip. His decapitated head later washed up nearby, suggesting deep criminality even among conventional troops (49:05).
• Policy Recommendations:
  • Harp advocates winding down endless wars and de-emphasizing use of Special Forces for perpetual, covert operations.
  • Mounting evidence shows ballooning defense budgets produce waste, not strength (e.g., outdated equipment, recruitment/retention crises, and even defeat by Houthi militants).
• Lack of Accountability:
  • Highlighted that laws funding Ukraine, for example, are written to explicitly prevent audits, guaranteeing “we’ll never learn” where much of the money goes (55:51).

Notable Quotes

• Seth Harp:

  “The military spending is so incredibly outrageously wasteful that it’s hard to see where all the money goes when you’re actually looking at the military.” (53:28)

  “…the same guys deployed again and again…10, 12, 15 times. That just does terrible things to a person…” (46:45)

• Krystal:

  “It’s about the toll that the forever war took on the people who fought them the most, the psychological toll, and the lack of leadership from the Pentagon…” (45:33)

Timestamps of Segments

• Summary of book’s revelations: [36:28–38:46]
• Heroin trade/Afghanistan link: [38:46–39:28]
• Notorious anecdotes and vetting of claims: [39:28–43:06]
• Delta Force origins/night raids: [43:07–45:33]
• Psychological toll, systemic consequences: [45:33–46:45]
• Policy solutions, failures of strategy and spending: [51:14–56:54]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Loomer Critique:

  “The trillion dollars being spent to blow the arms and legs off of children is the problem, not the children themselves.” – Ryan Grim (read aloud by Saagar, 16:39)

• On Political Rhetoric:

  “Classic Pete McKinsey speak: let me restate the question and then bullshit around until you don’t notice that I didn’t answer your question at all.” – Krystal (22:25)

• On Moral Injury:

  “If you’ve killed on behalf of the US government and you come to lose faith in that mission, the level of moral injury…is beyond fathoming.” – Saagar (48:11)

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Summary Takeaways

• The episode vividly illustrates ongoing US policy hypocrisy and the human cost of “forever wars” — from bureaucracy-rooted cruelty against wounded Gazan children to the psychic and moral breakdown in America’s elite soldiers.
• Politically, Democratic leaders are facing an internal reckoning about the language and policies required to retain party trust in the age of Israel/Gaza scrutiny.
• Seth Harp’s exposure of Special Forces criminality and “cartel” culture at Fort Bragg is a damning window into the blowback of outsourcing endless war to a select few, while accountability and reform remain elusive.

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Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Seth Harp]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Greeted everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately. Iheart presents the big three playoffs this Sunday. The remaining four teams battle to make the championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the big three Monster Energy Celebrity Games, then Dwight Howard and his LA Riot take on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J Chicago Triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 305 with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas power who will make it to the Big Three championship. The no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3pm EAS Eastern 12 Pacific only on CBS.

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[Krystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.

[Saagar Enjeti]

All right, so we got Laura Loomer now directing State Department policy when it comes to the admission of kids from Gaza who are seeking treatment in the United States. Let's go ahead and put this up on the screen. She tweeted this exclusive. Despite the US Saying we are not accepting Palestinian refugees into the United States under the Trump administration, I've obtained video footage of Palestinians who claim to be refugees from Gaza coming into the US Via San Francisco and Houston, Texas. This month. The Palestinians traveled from Gaza to the US with the help of a group called Heal Palestine. How did Palestinians get visas under the Trump administration to get into the US did the State Department approve this? How did they get out of Gaza? Is Secretary Rubio aware of this? So after Loomer tweets, hey, we don't want these kids coming in from Gaza, lo and behold, Department, State Department says all visitor visas for individuals from Gaza are being stopped while we conduct a full and thorough review of the process and procedures used to issue a small number of temporary medical humanitarian visas in recent days. And I'll play in just a second. Marco Rubio, he was asked about some of this on the Sunday show, is very, actually lame questioning of him, but whatever. In any case, just to be totally clear, you know, even what she's saying here about Palestinian refugees, personally, I would support it, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about temporary B2 visas that are used to allow people to come in and seek medical treatment. They are good for six months at a time. You have to seek an extension, prove you're continuing to receive medical treatment. You're not eligible for work, you're not eligible for permanent residency. That's what we're talking about here. We, we're talking about kids oftentimes who had their arms and their legs blown off frequently by American bombs, who are being allowed in, in very limited numbers in order to seek medical treatment here in the United States. And that is what Laura Loomer objects to. And that is who, by the way, describes herself as a quote, unquote, proud Islamophobe and who the State Department is listening to in blocking these visas. So let's go ahead and take a listen to Marco Rubio on the Sunday shows, and then we'll get Saga's direction on the other side. Marco, why did the State Department just announce that they're halting visitor visas for all Gazans coming here for medical aid? Why would some of these kids, for example, who are coming to hospitals for Treatment be a threat?

[Seth Harp]

Well, first of all, it's not just kids. It's a bunch of adults that are accompanying them. Second, we had outreach from multiple congressional offices asking questions about it. And so we're going to reevaluate how those visas are being granted, not just to the children, but how those visas are being granted to the people who are accompanying them and by the way, to some of the organizations that are facilitating it. There is evidence been presented to us by numerous congressional offices that some of the organizations bragging about and involved in acquiring these visas have strong links to terrorist groups like Hamas. And so we are not going to be in partnership with groups that are friendly with Hamas. So we need to. We're going to pause those visas. There was just a small number of them issued to children, but they come with adults accompanying them, obviously. And we are going to pause this program and reevaluate how those visas are being vetted and what relationship of any has there been by these organizations to the. To the process of acquiring those visas.

[Krystal Ball]

We're not going to be in partnership.

[Seth Harp]

With groups that have links or sympathies towards Hamas.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So there you go, Sagar. They're Hamas.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, listen, I agree that the Palestinians shouldn't come here because I think they should stay in their current place and they should be allowed to seek medical care in their own area, which they cannot do because they have all been leveled. Also, there is a very developed country called Israel which has hospitals and specialized medical care. If they really cared about Palestinian children, they could treat them if they would like to. They're, you know, open. They brag about it. Right. We got all these five star medical equipment, et cetera. The reason why. And again, I looked into it just like you did. These are not refugees, people who are permanently living here. They're on a permanent or, sorry, on a temporary visa to seek specialized medical care, which does not allow permanent residency. I guess it's fair to say that sometimes that does lead to permanent residency. So, okay, whatever. That's their objection. But what drives me nuts is the way that this is what drives me nuts is the way that we have all of this double standard. We literally just let an Israeli pedophile flee the. Allegedly. An alleged pedophile flee the country after he was caught in a sting here. That's no diplomatic outcry. The State Department, if anything, probably facilitated it. Allegedly.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Where's Laura Loomard?

[Krystal Ball]

Where's the exact. So do we care about security or any of that? More recently, our government actually launched a hate Crime investigation after a soldier returned from fighting in Gaza and faced some backlash or whatever here in the United States. And I'm like, yeah, I mean he's a foreigner. According to the US Passport, you're supposed to lose your, you are literally supposed to lose your citizenship if you go abroad and fight in a foreign military. And now our federal resources are being marshaled to protect. So we have not only just a double standard but a six standard here. So yes, let's make it so that they can stay exactly where they're from and seek medical attention. Yeah, there's an easy way to do that. That's not really something you want to do.

[Saagar Enjeti]

You know what Gaza actually had quite. Yeah, they had a lot of hospitals. I remember quite extensive medical care inside of Gaza, especially given the difficult conditions that have been imposed on them for years and years and decades by Israel. But they had quite sophisticated. Yeah, no more because you bombed it all, you destroyed it all. And this is the thing like from. If I'm to take a sort of right wing perspective or channel a right wing perspective. If you don't want a lot of refugees displaced, then stop backing the fucking wars that displace. You think that Palestinians want to have to have their kids arms blown off and seek treatment here? You think that's the life that they envision for themselves? Of course not. They would like to be in Gaza, they would like to be in their homes. But guess what? Our tax dollars went to destroying and turning all of Gaza, including yes, the medical system into rubble. And so given that context to then object to. We're talking about a small number of kids coming here and we can put this one 11 year old boy, this is D4 up on the screen coming here to seek specialized treatment. And you object to that? I mean to me it is so depraved, it is so sick as to be almost beyond words. These little kids who have had their childhood robbed from them, God knows the trauma that they've experienced, the loved ones in their lives, the family members that they've lost, who will never be able to gain back their limbs and their, you know, their peace of mind that was stolen from them and then the one little bit of kindness, we have to be able to get them out of Gaza and get the medical treatment. And you're mad about that. That is so disgraceful. It is just unbelievable.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, this was a big debate back during the Syrian crisis that I remember over the Syrian refugee stuff. And you know, the Europeans obviously invited all these Syrian refugees and Afghan refugees into the country Destabilized, responsible for Brexit, has caused problems basically now to this day. But like you said, to channel a more right wing perspective, the solution the whole time was, why do we keep funding this? We are responsible for basically creating the political crisis and the. That is fueling all of this. There's a. I'll get canceled for this one, but there is a term or a phrase come up with a guy named Steve Saylor, which is invade the world, invite the world, which is basically like, go abroad in search of monsters to destroy, destroy them, destabilize them either on behalf of Israel or support policy to do so, and then invite them, you know, to your own country. Now again, you know, the Israelis, out of two sides of their mouth are like, these people are so horrific that we cannot even be forced to live next to them. And then, and in the second breath they're like, by the way, America and everybody else, you need to take them. It's like, well, okay, so basically you don't really believe that. You just don't want to live next to them. I support their right to seek medical care in their own territory and, or in Israel for creating that crisis. And to allow also, you know, this is the other question of you're destroying all the hospitals and then you're blocking all of the aid that's even coming in there with ghf. I mean, all of these doctors who have gone into Gaza, all of them report massive problems even getting in there. Don't they have to go to the UAE or some other special system to even be able to provide it? They lose power when they're doing so. These things occur because of what we are supporting. This is the classic invade and invite scenario that Saylor described. So I don't know. I mean, I think with Loomer, really what you're watching is kind of this like weaponized hysteria over Palestinians and others where if they actually cared about not wanting Palestinians to have to go anywhere, which of course they don't, they support it. They actually support the mass ethnic cleansing really of what's going on, then you would support basically telling Israel no. And, you know, if we have a blanket policy that Israelis and Gazans and all these others are not going to get any of our more of our money and have much more of a fair application, but we don't. Our federal government basically rolls out the red carpet for former IDF soldiers who are coming here, who are responsible in some cases for creating much of this. But then the victims of it are then treated with contempt.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I Don't know.

[Krystal Ball]

The whole thing is great.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And just so you know the type of people that she is objecting to being able to get treatment here. Let's go ahead and play D4. This is a little 11 year old boy and his family who, you know, local news did a piece on and they arrived in Atlanta. Let's take a listen.

[Krystal Ball]

Yassine Al Galban is slowly learning how to be a kid again in the suburbs of Atlanta. He came here all the way from Gaza after losing his legs in an airstrike last year.

[Seth Harp]

Okay.

[Krystal Ball]

He doesn't want to talk. Arrived in the US for medical treatment through the nonprofit Heal Palestine here in Atlanta. He'll need more surgery and eventually prosthetic legs.

[Seth Harp]

He said, I'm fine.

[Krystal Ball]

Need for medical attention nearly caused the family to split apart.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So that's who, you know, that's who Rubio was saying, oh, these are linked to terrorists. This is Hamas. This is Sue Loomer is, you know, fit to pitching a hysterical fit about to try to block their entry. And I truly just find the whole thing to be grotesque and disgusting.

[Krystal Ball]

I think it again is gross in Israel in the pro Israel context. I mean, I don't think it's a secret, but like part of the problem is that there's always weaponized empathy for mass refugee status. But I mean, it's almost feels silly to have that argument or discussion right now because we're not. No one's proposing that. No one is saying, well, actually Israel is proposing some sort of mass refugee expulsion, but there's not a serious debate right now to invite hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Palestinians, you know, here to America. That's not actually what's even really part of the question. This is not even like the starting point of any of it. It's not a realistic political outcome other than the one that's being pushed by the Israeli. If it were, then I would not be willing to have an army.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We are the ones who. We are the reason this little boy doesn't have legs. Right. He lost family member. I believe he lost his father. We are the reason for that. And the tiniest bit of, I mean this is a pathetic drop in the bucket. I think a few hundred kids, I mean it's so minimal. And this is the thing that you're up at arms about again, it is so disgusting. And if, like, if you don't want for these children to have to seek medical care abroad, then support the ending of the bombing and starving of them so that, yes, where they would actually like to be at their homes with their loved ones with their limbs and bodies intact.

[Seth Harp]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

I believe Ryan also was pointing out that in many of the cases it was a hyper specialized medical because people are like, oh, why do they have to come here? And he's like, well, in many of these cases, it's a very specific type of medical treatment available in the United States that's being paid for by donors and others. With the scrutiny of the State department on the B2 visa, Loomer has been saying, like, oh, well, why don't they go to Arab countries? And it's like, well, in some cases there are literally only specific procedures where they have doctors, like, available in the United States. That's what I saw him in his back and forth with Loomer. But yeah, I mean, overall, it just goes to show you the level of which we can have just like complete hysteria and panic in some sort of service of Israel, you know, here with the victims of a policy which is directly supported by the last two administrations, by tax dollars and others.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

What exactly is the way that we square it? And by the way, if it was a child, like an October 7th victim, and they were blocked from coming over here, what do you think these people would all, oh, yeah, you want to go there for a second? Like, let's do that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Let me just. Before we get to Pete, let me just read this exchange from Loomer and Ryan just to get it in here, because, yeah, our man has been doing. Doing battle. He's been doing battle in the trenches over this one. So Loomer, quote, tweeted a drop site report and said, why should Palestinians be treated in American hospitals for free while US Veterans are homeless on the street unable to get health care? This is why everyone hates them, because they want to come to our country, get free health care, and never assimilate while Americans struggle to pay their bills? Not even Americans get free health care. But you want Palestinians to have free health care while you are America last? Unreal. As if Ryan doesn't want Americans to get free health care, by the way. And this lady, you think she has ever supported free health care for all Americans? Okay, anyway, Ryan responds. Trump slashed Medicaid, slashed the va, slashed ACA exchange subsidies, and increased the military budget to over a trillion dollars. But Loomer wants people to think the reason they don't have health care is that a Palestinian child got treated thanks to donations from people heartbroken at what Israel and the U.S. by the way, is doing to children. This is a lie. The trillion dollars being spent to blow the arms and legs off of children is the problem, not the children themselves. Well said my friend. Well said, Ryan Groom.

[Seth Harp]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure, using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 enough only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately. The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, iHeart presents the Big 3 Basketball Championship and 8th Annual Big 3 All Star Game this coming Sunday, August 24th. Live from Orlando, the remaining two teams fight it out for the Big 3 Championship Dr. J Trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. Don't miss the wild conclusion of Big Three's eighth and most historic season ever. This is the game no one wants to lose and there's no crying in the Big three. The action starts with the Big Three eighth Annual All Star Game. Don't miss All Stars Dwight Howard, Montrez Harrell, MVP Michael Beasley, Lance will make you Dan Stevenson, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nasir Kaur and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Big Three's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new Big Three champion. The no holds part action starts Sunday at 2pm Eastern, 11 Pacific only on CBS.

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[Saagar Enjeti]

We covered this last week. But just as a refresher, Pete Buttigieg went on Pod Save America. Jon Favreau was doing the questioning and he just made an absolute mess of his answers on Israel. Said a lot of words, said absolutely nothing. It was pathetic. He got absolutely destroyed online. Huge backlash to his comments. So just as a reminder, cuz we've got an update on this. Just as a reminder of what he said, this was his response to hey, do you think we should recognize a Palestinian state?

[Seth Harp]

Do you think it's time to recognize a Palestinian state?

[Krystal Ball]

I think that that's a profound question that arouses a lot of the biggest problems that have happened with Israel's survival, Israel's right to survival in the diplomatic scene. And many of the people who have taken that step historically have done so for different reasons than what we see happening with European countries. I think we need to step back and we need to do whatever it takes to, to ensure that there is a real two state solution and that no one, not even the likes of Netanyahu, can veto the international community's commitment to a two state solution where you have Palestinians and Israelis living with safety, with security, with rights. I believe that can happen, but we have to actually show some commitment to it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So again, the question was, should we recognize a Palestinian state? All of that long gobbledygook was the answer, which started off with that's a profound question that arouses a lot of the biggest problems with regard to Israel's right to survival. Oh, thanks Pete. Thanks. That was really useful. And all of his answers were like that. So it was so bad that he actually went to Politico to try to clean up the mess. We can put this up on the screen. This is an interesting article overall about what they Describe as Dems 2028 litmus test on Israel. And they say Buttigieg discovered that this was. I mean they're so out of touch. It's crazy that he didn't realize this would be an issue. But in any case, here's part of what he said. He said Democrats, like all Americans, but certainly Democrats, Democrats are sickened by what's happening and trying to hold several things in mind at the same time, all of which can be true, that what has to happen next is the killing has to end. He told Politico in an interview, the hostages have to come home, the people of Gaza need aid unimpeded, and all of that should be happening immediately. They describe that as a sharper response than in his interview. I don't know how Sharp, that is. But in any case, it goes on. He says of the criticism of his podcast interview, quote, I get it. It's important to be clear about something this enormous and this painful. It's just that it's so enormous and it's so painful soccer that sometimes his words can fail. It's just that he feels it so deeply. Didn't express himself properly. Okay, but the next piece up on the screen, we got one more here. So Buttigieg sees a larger paradigm shift on the issue following the blowback this week to his response on the podcast. He's now trying to directly answer Democrats questions about his positions on Israel. Asked whether Palestinian state should be recognized, he told Politico a two state solution has to come in the context of a credible and enforceable and negotiated process. I think if you just try to do it unilaterally, it's not going to change anything for people on the ground and it'll just be words on a page. As for passing more decades long military aid packages, Buttigieg said we have to shift to a more case by case approach instead of a blanket approach. And he added, Netanyahu's military campaign is even more horrifying when you contemplate this is happening with US support. So I don't know how great he did cleaning this up. It's still a lot, in my opinion of gobbledygook that completely misses the moral clarity that Democrats certainly want to see from him. But Sagra, it was noteworthy that he felt the need to go in and play cleanup at all after the answers that he gave. This classic Pete McKinsey speak of. Let me restate the question and then bullshit around until you don't notice that I didn't answer your question at all. He would have gotten away with that just a few years ago, no question. And now people are like, no, we want an answer. Where do you stand? And the Democratic base is overwhelmingly of the view that this is a genocide, all weapons need to stop, there needs to be an end and that this is horrifying and there needs to be total and complete moral clarity when it comes to this issue.

[Krystal Ball]

I think what they horseshoe on it will be eventually is, and this is why Buttigieg made the mistake of just like trying in the very beginning to give his gobbledygook answer is going to be the eventual place that Slotkin ended up after our interview, which is they're gonna stay silent. The ambitious ones will stay silent for now. I doubt they'll ever get to genocide. I think what they'll say is, I support no more weapons to the state of Israel. That is the, like, horseshoe between whatever is left of liberal Zionism and of the activist class. Who is gonna rejoice at seeing somebody like Gavin Newsom or others be like, yeah, we're not gonna support. And realistically, that's what it's gonna look like at an actual policy level. So in my opinion, what Buttigieg has shown is the political trepidation of even trying to square the circle by not just outright declaring several things at a concrete level. Palestinian statehood, offensive weapons, not even offense weapons to Israel. I think those will be the two actual litmus tests. And if I think about it, in the Pod Save America clip, the one that went very viral was him saying, we're not going back to the pre October 7th status quo. Yeah, That, I think, again, is another pod save.

[Saagar Enjeti]

What was it?

[Krystal Ball]

It's with the pod save guys.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, no, I think it was Jon Favreau who said it. And who's the other one? I forget his name.

[Saagar Enjeti]

John Lovett.

[Krystal Ball]

Love it. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. They were all. But my point is that. But that will be, I think, where the eventual nexus ends, where the activist class will be satisfied at a policy level. And in terms of the reality of, like, where this base and policy actually looks like, that's what it means. It means the special relationship is over. Offensive weapons, period. While your gangsterism continues, is not on the table. Us protecting you with the United nations not going to happen anymore. The antisemitism resolutions and the AIPAC stuff, it's like, no. You know, I mean, think about it in the. Can you win a Democratic primary at the presidential level if you appear recently on the AIPAC stage? I would say no, I don't think it's gonna happen. Especially with the. And so looking at that politically and how that operationalizes, like, J Street itself is gonna be the only place where it's even remotely safe. AIPAC is done for it. When we had Abdul Syed here on the show, he kept calling it, like, a MAGA billionaire organization. And I was like, okay, man. Like, that is kind of true. But there's a lot of Democrats who support AIPAC as well. But that's the framing. I saw where this is all going to end up.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. I mean, I personally think that the language of calling it a genocide is gonna be important too, because it's a signal.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't think so.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I do. Because it's a signal of that sense of moral clarity. And so while, of course, the policy is the most important thing in terms of what you're gonna do. That is the real litmus test of, do you get it? Like, are you willing to say the thing that is the most difficult to say right now and for people who care a lot about this issue.

[Krystal Ball]

But that's not.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I will tell you, that is.

[Krystal Ball]

That's not the entire Democratic base. I mean, the no Kings protest is bigger than any other protest in the entire country. It's not about Gaza.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's not the entire Democratic base. But I do think it is becoming increasingly central dividing line because it is a symbol of not just where do you stand on this issue, but are you gonna be independent? Do you have integrity? Are you gonna fight? Are you gonna be different? And it really does come back to that, that Ta Nehisi Coates quote of, if you aren't willing to stand up against a genocide, how can we trust that you're gonna stand up against Trump? Stand up for democracy. And I think that is increasingly the sense among a large portion of the Democratic Party.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm just skeptical. That just seems very, like, defund the police logic. It's like, if you don't have the full activists on board, I feel like they should have learned their lesson. If you're gonna get everything you want on a policy level, just shut up and take it. Like, why are you upset? I mean, in terms of.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Because Sagar. It's about that signifier of. This is the thing that's the hardest to do on this. Right. The hardest thing to do on this issue is to actually say the truth, that it's a genocide. And so if you're not willing, if you're still trying to dance around that reality and come up with some sort of tortured rationale of why you. They're not like you. They do believe that genocide is such a thing and a word that should be used. If you're still dancing around, then, yeah, you just look like a smarmy, dishonest politician who is not willing to be clear even in defense of innocent people who are being.

[Krystal Ball]

I just find it very hard to believe that it's the sole litmus test for a Democratic politician. Like I said, no Kings is the biggest protest in the country. That's much more like Gavin Newsom. We're gonna fight Coded. That's not about Israel at all. Gavin. One of the most popular politicians right now. I get it. For a lot of younger people, this is just, again, where I think with the defund logic is gonna come in. It's like, is that gonna Become the single troll of the Democratic primary? I don't think so. And I feel like they should probably learn a lot of their lesson from demanding specific rhetorical concession. If they agree with you 100% in how this is gonna be actionalized and you're still not gonna support them, I think that would be preposterous for the way that it goes about. And I do think that the way that the Republicans are current, like if you look at the way that people are so upset about Republicans actions right now, a lot of it is Israel, a lot of it is ice. But I would say broadly it's a feeling of gangsterism, as in they are getting away with everything that they want from gerrymandering to support for Israel to ice. They've taken over and they're fighting with power. That's where I feel like Newsom's energy in terms of saying things like we're no longer gonna sit around and hold up signs. We have to fight back. That is the core nexus of what the Democrat demands. If he doesn't say the word genocide, are people really not gonna support him? No, I just, I see no way that that's gonna work out. Like, this is very activist brained.

[Saagar Enjeti]

No, I don't. I think you're wrong about what it indicates to people and why it is is going to be because the thing with Newsom is he doesn't really have to answer any questions on this right now because he's governor, but he will when he runs.

[Krystal Ball]

That'll be three years.

[Saagar Enjeti]

He will have to answer questions on this. And what people are looking for is almost like a Democratic Trump who is gonna say the shit you're not supposed to say. And yes, in the context of his fight on gerrymandering, he is doing that thing. But if you're still a smarmy politician who is wrapping themselves twisting themselves in pretzels about just this one word, then it's an indicator of who you really are and how committed you really are to being clear, being forceful, having that moral clarity. But we'll see.

[Seth Harp]

Look, I could be too.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We'll see how it all plays out here. But I just, I know there's going to be someone, because the lane is wide open, someone who fully occupies that sort of like Zoron lane and is truly like anti Zionist, says we should arrest Netanyahu and we're cutting off all the weapons. Not just like, oh, the offensive ones and the defensive ones, blah, blah, blah. There is going to be a lane wide open for that person. There will be someone who will occupy that lane. And I think they will get significant support. It will be, you know, and it will push everybody else on the issue as well.

[Krystal Ball]

I wouldn't deny that. I think that certainly will happen. I would look at as an Overton window pusher and somebody who will definitely kind of be looked at as a pain in the ass or anything. Do I think that person's gonna win solely on that? No. And I don't think that's why Zoron won either. I don't think it's the only reason he won. At least is the only reason that he won.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's not the only reason he won. But I do think it'll be pared by more important than what even I initially thought may. Go ahead and get to this next part because this does indicate how the Democratic leadership is desperately trying to catch up to where the base is. Catherine Clark, who is the Democratic House whip, so she's the number two most powerful Democrat in the House, appears to have called Gaza, what Israel's doing in Gaza a genocide at an event. Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of this.

[Krystal Ball]

And we each have to continue to.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Have an open heart about how we.

[Krystal Ball]

Do this, how we do it effectively, and how we take action in time.

[Saagar Enjeti]

To make a difference, whether that is.

[Krystal Ball]

Stopping the starvation and genocide and destruction.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Of Gaza or whether that means we are working together to stop the redistricting that is going on, taking away the vote from people. So she says they're stopping the genocide in Gaza. She joins a very small number of Democrats and very small number overall of elected representatives who have called it a genocide. Politico asked her about it. They said, you know, she didn't, they didn't walk back. Her office did not walk back. The characterization said the Massachusetts Democrats position on the fighting in the region has not changed. Quote, Whip Clark's position on the war has not changed. The Israeli and Palestinian people deserve security and peace. It can only be achieved through a permanent ceasefire, immediate return on the remaining hostages, and a surge of humanitarian aid to Gaza. It should not be controversial to say that Israeli children did not deserve to be kidnapped and murdered by Hamas. Nor should it be controversial to say Palestinian children who bear no responsibility for Hamas atrocities do not deserve to be killed by war or starvation. A secure future for Israeli and Palestinian children demands a real two state solution and a permanent end to efforts to deny their rights to exist. So didn't walk it back totally, but did sort of like, I guess, provide context for the language here. Nevertheless, Sagra, I think it is quite a significant development that you have the number two in the House next to again this position. And it will provide a sort of, of. It will provide a permission structure, I think, for others in the House Democratic Caucus and other elected Democratic leaders to take that position. The other thing that I think provides a permission structure is Obama back in. Zoran is a big deal for that as well.

[Krystal Ball]

That's fair.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, totally.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, I still wonder how much of the nexus is on genocide and not what I said about October 7, status quo about policy levels of offensive weapons, et cetera. I'm willing to be totally wrong. I mean, remember, if you think words and all that don't matter, do you remember how much Hillary refusing to say radical Islamic terrorism was a thing?

[Saagar Enjeti]

I know that just popped into my.

[Krystal Ball]

Head as a counterargument to myself. I was like, well, maybe I'm totally wrong. I mean, maybe that's the only signal that some people want to hear because.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times people don't really dig into the policy details. It's like, what are you signaling with your language? You know, Are you signaling that you're. This just like doesn't give a fuck on Barnes Truth Teller, or are you doing some sort of Weasley politician y bullshit that gives you room to not piss off the donors too much and be able to shift your position down the road, etc?

[Krystal Ball]

Totally fair. I mean, in retrospect, it's crazy that Hillary didn't just say it like on the stage. What did she say? She was like radical jihadism or something.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I don't remember.

[Krystal Ball]

She's like, just say it, lady.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's the same thing. It doesn't matter. Major fixation on that one.

[Krystal Ball]

It was huge.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, we've got Seth Harp standing by. Let's get to it.

[Seth Harp]

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[Krystal Ball]

Joining us now is journalist Seth Harp. He is the author of an explosive new book. Let's go ahead and put it up there on the screen. He's been teasing it to us now for qu some time. The Fort Bragg cartel, drug trafficking and murder in the Special Forces. Seth, you have been making the rounds now with this book with some extraordinary new reporting and revelations, but at a very high level. Why don't you just describe what you found at Fort Bragg, the consequences of our 20 years of action abroad and what it wrought with the US Special Forces inside of their community.

[Seth Harp]

Sure, the book is basically an investigation into some unsolved murders that took place on Fort Bragg among Special Forces soldiers who were involved in trafficking drugs. But in the course of investigating those murders and trying to determine who committed them. I came upon a much larger story of drug trafficking and impunity at Fort Bragg, culminating in a huge number of soldier Deaths beginning in 2020, continuing all the way through 2024. So the book really draws in a lot of those themes and, as you said, tries to show how that very high mortality rate and high rate of criminality in the special Forces in the Airborne Corps is attributable fundamentally to the way that our soldiers and troops have been used over the past 20 years of forever war.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And, Seth, the book reads likeI mean, the structure is, I think, really well done. It reads like a murder mystery. And then you also zoom out and talk about these broader implications. And one of the pieces you really dig into, which I'm shocked, hasn't been fully explored to my knowledge, previously, is the way that our war in Afghanistan helps fuel a drug crisis here at home. Can you lay out some of those connections for people? Because, you know, and I'm sure that this was part of the story, the story that we. What we've told here is that, you know, you had the increase in Purdue Pharma and these other pharmaceutical companies start pushing oxy, people get addicted, then they turn to the street. I'm sure that's one part of what was going on here. But take us into your reporting on how the Afghan drug trade, you know, fueled by our war there, ends up coming back home.

[Seth Harp]

So the narrative in which heroin addiction in the United States is precipitated, or precipitated, excuse me, by overly lax prescribing practices around opiate drugs. That's true. That's not a false narrative. However, what it leaves out is that during the 2000s and 2010s, there was a flood of supply of heroin in the. In the United States, Enormous availability, high potency. And my book tries to show how the majority of that heroin came from Afghanistan while it was under occupation by US Forces, which is an angle of the war that has not been thoroughly explored to date.

[Krystal Ball]

So one of the things, Seth, I wanted to get into, or some of the really extraordinary stuff that you uncovered in your book, I mean, just pure, like, wanton behavior by some of the troops that you're alleging there. Can you go into that? Including titanium teeth for dogs and eating human flesh. These have been the most controversial claims you've made in the book.

[Seth Harp]

So that detail is really passing detail in the book. However, it is something that people seized upon online. There was an operator who was suffering from extreme moral injury, ptsd, drug addiction, who was involved in the Drug trafficking activities at Fort Bragg. His name was Billy Levine. He had been a dog handler on Delta Force. And in fact, he had adopted one of the unit's working animals after it had been retired. And I related a story that Billy told to the sister of another Green Beret in which he said that the dog had had its titanium teeth removed upon retirement in order to prevent it from posing a danger to people, because while in service, the dog had actually developed a taste for human flesh. Again, this was something in the nature of hearsay that I repeated in the book. It was a credible enough claim, but people seized upon that online and were saying, this detail has to be made up. However, no sooner did that pylon begin than somebody anonymously posted a video of a clearly marked Delta Force K9 or a special Forces canine, in the event, doing almost exactly what I had described in the book. I don't want to horrify people by describing it in graphic detail, but. But it was amazing to see video evidence of exactly what I had alleged emerge just like that.

[Krystal Ball]

Seth, not to turn this into a gotcha or anything, the reason I'm asking is I did have some people in the community reach out to me about your book, and they knew that you and I were close, and they were alleging that you had not reached out to them for comment in some of these specific instances. This isn't to put down your work, but I do want to ask you, because some very specific claims have been made here about not being reached out for comments specifically on some of these allegations, using some of the hearsay and other things, and then claiming a firing, I believe, of a person, or, sorry, claiming a voluntary leaving when they were fired in one particular case. I want to give you a chance to address that, just to get it on the record.

[Seth Harp]

Sure. That's just not true. We contacted everyone who's named in the book or made an attempt to contact them, if they are named. We made an attempt to contact them. And all of the allegations that we make about the unit, we make about Delta Force, about the Special Forces Forces, all of that has gone to the Special Forces Command with an opportunity for them to comment. They have declined every single time, including most recently when Politico did an excerpt. We sent them a very long email outlining every single thing that we were going to say in the article. And they said, because your comment involves a special or because your question involves a special mission unit, we cannot comment. So I find it to be kind of a double game they're playing. Where at the one Point they hide behind, you know, the unit secrecy and say that we can't ever. We can't comment on any of these allegations. And then when the book comes out, they say, well, you didn't really talk to any of us. It's also not true that I didn't interview Delta Force operators as quiet. There's several who are named in the book and there's even more who spoke to me completely off the record on condition that I not even describe them. So the idea that no one was contacted, that there were allegations that were a surprise, people are just simply making that up. I don't know where they're getting that. We don't go into that. We don't say every single no comment is recited in the book because that gets boring. But that that allegation is completely baseless.

[Krystal Ball]

Want to make sure it was addressed.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Let's talk a little bit more about Delta Force, which is where you focus your reporting. I mean, first of all, for people don't know, who don't know, where did Delta Force come from? How was it established and in what way have they been used and deployed during the war on terror in the particular?

[Seth Harp]

So Delta Force started out as a very specialized and very elite counterterrorism unit in the early 1980s or in the late 1970s, originally. For many years it was not used very often because of its high degree of specialization and use in things rare missions such as hostage rescue. It continued to have that niche role after 9 11. And it wasn't really until the surge in Iraq in 2007, in 2008, as I relate in an early chapter of my book, in which the unit became something much more of a death squad that was used in night missions, going out night after night and just hitting targets that were believed to have something to do with the insurgency in Iraq. And that was a model that was expanded to Afghanistan during President Obama's term in office. And we heard a lot about this when it was called by the euphemism night raids, drone strikes and drone strikes and night raids really became the entire American war effort. And Delta Force was always at the leading edge of that. Other people in the Special Forces community have criticized because I follow the message boards. The book has become very controversial among these folks. And one thing that they were saying was that a lot of times when they hit targets, they're just capturing targets and they're quibbling with the idea that Delta just shows up and just massacres everyone on site. Now, it's true that Delta Force does do capture missions. That certainly happens. I'm not in a position to say what the exact proportion is, but also just last night I saw some comments by a former Delta Force commander named Jeff Teagues in which he was saying basically the exact same kind of things as I was saying about the unit. He says, when we show up, we will kill you, your family, your village, your pets, your goldfish, was an exact quote from this individual. And he added that when the black helicopters show up, everyone dies. That's coming from a Delta Force commander to a podcaster named Dalton Fury just a few days ago. So I stand by my portrayal of Delta Force in the book. It was based on rigorous research and investigations and interviews.

[Krystal Ball]

Seth, to me, if I zoom out, and I know this all sounds tedious, but as you know, when dealing with Special Forces people, they like to get in the wee controversy is very big amongst them. They enjoy sniping each other on podcasts. Don't ask me why, but this has been long part of their own community. When I zoom out and I think about your book, it's about the toll that the forever War took on the people who fought them, who fought them the most, the psychological toll and the lack of leadership from the Pentagon and others to recognize of what, 14, 15 deployments of gangsterism, of just wantonly going in, running missions under the COVID of darkness, of killing people, even capture, even if you're doing so legally. You're not doing anything wrong, I'm saying. But what that is going to breed into you as an individual and what you write in the book is to show all of these unsolved murders on a per capita basis, exploration of drug use, of the psychological toll that it takes to on anyone to serve in this type of environment. And I'm just saying within that context, is that how you viewed the inevitable rise of what you say is the Fort Bragg cartel?

[Seth Harp]

Yes, absolutely. And I'm not trying to portray some of the enlisted operators who the book follows their careers and their lives and their deaths. I'm not trying to portray them as monsters. On the contrary, I try to portray them very much as humans and show how they started off from a place of good intentions, started off as normal guys, joined the military, progressively rose through the ranks and became more and more inured to the nightly killing fests in Iraq and Afghanistan and the terrible consequences that had on their bodies, their minds and their souls. Inevitably, this is what our foreign policy breeds. And you know, military bases like Fort Braggin and the lives of these people who get chewed up and spit out by this system, which, you know, it's a policy to use just these, just the Special Forces groups and the Navy seals and other elite formations to prosecute these wars that we maintain, because American voters don't want to see large divisions of troops deployed to foreign countries. They don't want to see conventional troops coming back in body bags. And so relying on the Special Forces to wage wars out of sight and out of mind of the public is really, I think, a deliberate policy choice. But you end up with having the same guys deployed again and again, 10 times, 12 times, 15 times in these war zones. And that just says terrible things to a person, as you say.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, no doubt about it. And I can't imagine what it does, too. If you've killed on behalf of the US government and you come to lose faith in that mission, like the level of moral injury and the level of nihilism that that would instill in you, you know, is beyond fathoming. I'd love for you to take us through a specific example here, if we can zoom into the micro just so people can get a sense of some of the, you know, the murders that you detail. One consistent theme also is the lack of accountability because these guys are so valuable to the US Government and probably know so many things that they don't want coming forward as well. So that's another significant piece of the story that you're telling here. But tell us about the beheading of Enrique Roman Martinez, which is one of the stories that you detail in the book.

[Seth Harp]

Yes. One of the strangest episodes of this spate of murders at Fort Bragg was the death of Enrique Roman Martinez. Now, he was a little bit different from my other subjects. He was a very young soldier in the conventional army in the 82nd Airborne Division. He disappeared on a camping trip with several of his fellow soldiers from Fort Bragg who say, who told police the next day that they just woke up and he was gone. By the way, Enrique Roman Martinez, although by all accounts he was a nice kid, he was dealing drugs on Fort Bragg. In fact, he was deeply involved in that world. He was selling psychedelic drugs in particular, out of his barracks room. And so that was an important detail because that same night, the night they went on a camping trip, he also took a large dose of LSD and was suffering a bad trip. That was the last thing that his friends knew of him. They said he woke. They woke up the next morning, he was gone. However, a couple of days later, his decapitated head washed ashore on the beach where they had been Camping or nearby, on a nearby island, showing that he had been murdered. Several medical examiners determined that his head had been chopped off with a hatchet or ax or some other kind of heavy and sharp hand tool. It is one of the most mysterious and baffling cases in the. In, in the annals of military crime. And I devote two chapters dedicated to getting to the bottom of this mysterious case, which almost ends up being like an episode of the X Files more than some of the, you know, sort of like mafia style crime that the other murders were characterized by. So the case of Enrique Roman Martinez is in the mix in all of this, and I hope that my book will provide the definitive account of what's known of his murder to date.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's actually an interesting question. What was your goal in writing the book, Seth? There seems to be this theory amongst these former Fort Bragg guys, like he wanted to embarrass us or any of that. I mean, knowing you a little bit, I don't think that was really your goal at all. Outside of being journalistically interested, were there any policy takeaways that you would have liked to have seen as a result of the book?

[Seth Harp]

Yes, there certainly were policy takeaways that I came to, but originally, no, that wasn't my intention. I certainly didn't set out to write a book about policy. I really wanted to get to the bottom of the murders of Billy Levine and Timothy Dumas that took place on Fort Bragg. That was fundamentally my goal that drove the whole project from the beginning to end. But in order to understand those two men and what they were up to, it was necessary to delve into their, their respective lengthy military histories and provide the context of the wars they fought in. And in doing so, I'm not going to sugarcoat what these wars have been all about or what the unit is like. And so regarding policy changes that I would like to see, there are many. I think our military is in deep, deep need of reform. Really the most fundamental policy change wouldn't be directly to change anything about the military so much as to wind down all these foreign wars and not have the need to have these small units going out and doing assassination and abduction missions almost every night, which, by the way, they continue to do in Iraq and Syria with virtually no media coverage of it and very little oversight from the Trump administration. So foreign policy changes, I think, are more vital than specific technical changes to the structure of the military. But, but down there, you could also, you could also advocate for certain policy changes. I think the use of special forces should Be de. Emphasized. I don't think it's a. I don't think it's a successful strategic model. The idea that we're going to use elite troops, intelligence agencies, you know, the Air Force and the surveillance apparatus, proxy forces, you know, this whole model of war fighting that developed under the Obama administration, I think, has been a total failure.

[Krystal Ball]

I agree.

[Seth Harp]

And so, you know, moving towards a more conventional military, winding down foreign wars, I think those are the two most critical things that would alleviate some of the. Some of the criminality and mortality we've seen at bases like Fort Bragg and also Fort Hood and other bases, too.

[Krystal Ball]

Really well said.

[Saagar Enjeti]

President Trump has increased the defense budget, of course, most presidents do, and it's now over a trillion dollars. How. How effective is our military? How capable are they? They.

[Seth Harp]

I think people complacently assume that because we spend a trillion dollars in our military every year that we must have, you know, the greatest fighting force on earth, and that's just not true anymore. The military spending is so incredibly outrageously wasteful that it's hard to see where all the money goes when you're actually looking at the military. You know, I was at Trump's military parade not too long ago covering that, and it did not look like a force that a trillion dollars had been spent on by any means. You know, a lot of the armored vehicles, all of the military's workhorse armored vehicles are so badly out of date, 40, 50 years old in some cases. You know, the Blackhawk helicopter is performing really poorly. There have been an incredible number of helicopter crashes recently. Another subject that's been underreported, but it culminated in the crash of that Army Black Hawk helicopter with the regional jetliner over the Potomac river earlier in January. That was symptomatic of all these crashes that are taking place. And the military is struggling with recruiting, although 2025 was a little better than past years, but it's shrinking. It's at the smallest size ever. I really call into question whether the army is even capable of fulfilling, you know, its core mission, if. If a division needed to be deployed on sudden notice or something like that, because of the institutional decline that we've seen at bases like Fort Bragg. And I really think that, you know, the national defense budget has got to be reined in because that spending is not going where it needs to go. I don't know where it's going. But, you know, we saw in, earlier in this year, the US Navy went head to head with the Houthis. I don't know what their military budget is. But that's a country that's. That makes. That makes Haiti look relatively affluent. And the Houthis arguably prevailed in a direction confrontation with the US Navy over the. Over the strait, controlling access to the Red Sea. I mean, that was just such a pathetic performance that the military turned in. That's another, you know, symptom or another manifestation of the weakness and decline that we have seen in the military and are seen despite this gargantuan spending.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, well, not only signs are everywhere. Not only do you not know where that money. Apparently no one knows knows where that money goes. Given the fact that the Pentagon is, you know, can't pass a budget, can't pass an audit and can't account for significant portions of their budget.

[Seth Harp]

Right. And more and more things are being written to like the laws that provide aid to Ukraine. It's written into those laws that. That spending can't ever be audited. Which is just crazy. You know, they're making sure that nothing like Cigar, which did a retrospective, the special Inspector General for Afghanistan reconstruction provided some clarity and some limited accountability for how the war in Afghanistan was waged. And there's actually provisions of law that make sure that we'll never learn that same kind of information about the war.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, you're so Cigar. Was one of the most important journalistic resources in Washington. I actually think it was critical in eroding support for the war in Afghanistan because people just cover their claims. And we did it for years and years. Always the stories that we wrote on it would go viral because people saw how much of a waste it was. We don't have a single clue. Even though it's a similar amount of money that we've sent over to Ukraine. Seth, I could talk to you all day, man. Thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on the book. We hope everybody goes and buys. We're linked down in the description.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Thank you, Seth.

[Seth Harp]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Krystal Ball]

Thanks so much for watching, guys. We appreciate it. We're going to have a great show for everybody tomorrow. See you then.

[Seth Harp]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

This is an iHeart podcast.