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Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
8/19/25: Jeffrey Sachs Breaks Down Trump Ukraine Summit, Trump Pushes Mail In Ballot Ban
01:01:57
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
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Krystal Ball
Good morning. Welcome to today.
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Professor Jeffrey Sachs
All along as the forecast calls for.
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Krystal Ball
We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.
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- [01:40]
Saagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here.
- [01:42]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
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Saagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
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Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:06]
Saagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Good morning everybody. Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. We have Crystal.
- [02:17]
Krystal Ball
Indeed we do. We got a big show today. The one and only Professor Jeffrey Sachs is going to join us to be able to break down that big Ukraine summit from yesterday. So really looking forward to hearing what he thought of everything that has transpired to this date. We Also had some other interesting sound come from Trump as a part of that summit, talking about how he's getting rid of mail in ballots. He also posted Truth Social to the same effect. Also sort of floating the idea of, hey, maybe for a war, we just don't have an election.
- [02:43]
Saagar Enjeti
So he wants to copy Ukraine. Yeah, got the idea.
- [02:46]
Krystal Ball
Lots to take note of there and break down. Also, we're asking the question whether Gavin Newsom is going to meme his way to the presidency. He seems to be making some progress in that regard. That's right. Very interesting dynamics unfolding there. A little bit of weird horseshoe going on as well. So we'll break that down for you. The ADL chief is just outright lying about Zoran Mandani. So we've got the response seats on that. And some quite noteworthy developments vis a vis Israel. Hamas has accepted a ceasefire deal. I wouldn't get too excited yet because, you know, the Israelis will probably decide they just want to continue the war. But we did want to give you those details as well as some other updates before we jump into the show. In this interview with Professor Sacks Sagra had some great breaking news yesterday. Very significant. Why don't you break down for folks what you found and were able to get your hands on.
- [03:31]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, for our premium members. I dropped it last night just to get ahead of the news, but basically, you'll remember the story about Tom Alexandrovich, the Israeli government official who was caught up in an FBI child sex sting. Actually got my hands on some of the arrest documents and specifically the interview notes. And what we found inside of the documents is that Alexandrovich immediately identified himself as an Israeli government official. The FBI and HSI agents who interviewed him basically said, we're gonna contact the embassy on your behalf. This directly contradicts the prime minister's office who said that they didn't know that he had been arrested. He said, I need to get on a flight to Israel immediately. Like he was making it. I need to arrange for my international travel back to Israel after being caught up in the sting. And most importantly, he was here basically on government business to attend a, quote, black hat conference for cybersecurity professionals. He had met with FBI agents at an upcoming meeting with the nsa. So with our own security establishment. This is all on the record here from the documents that we were able to review. So we did drop that early for our premiums. And if you can help support journalism like that, breakingpoints.com if you're able. We're not keeping it behind the Payout or anything. I'm going to release it all publicly today, but it was important to give it to our premium subscribers.
- [04:45]
Krystal Ball
First, the other detail there is the undercover agent who was posing as a 15 year old.
- [04:51]
Saagar Enjeti
Oh, I didn't, Yeah, I didn't even talk about the actual crime. Disgusting.
- [04:54]
Krystal Ball
That's what, what, you know, is alleged to have occurred here is he was arranging to meet up with this 15 year old girl for the explicit purposes of sexual contact. Unbeknownst to him, this was, you know, an undercover agent. He was going to take her to Cirque du Soleil.
- [05:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, classy.
- [05:10]
Washable Sofas / PayPal / Lenovo Advertiser
Yeah.
- [05:10]
Krystal Ball
Disgusting. Utterly disgusting. This is the guy that the government was like, oh, let's just make sure you get on a flight to Israel and escape scot free. Meanwhile, the other people who are caught up in this thing, you know, were, are under arrest, have court days, et cetera. So.
- [05:22]
Saagar Enjeti
Right.
- [05:22]
Krystal Ball
Very interesting.
- [05:23]
Saagar Enjeti
Interesting, interesting indeed. We will continue to follow the case, hoping to get some more. And by the way, if you are in the Henderson Police Department, the FBI, the hsi, if you were involved in this investigation in any way and you want to talk, hit me up. Let's talk. All right. Because I will be knocking on your door and I will be beating down your door or I guess virtually to try and get on the phone. There's still several leads that I would like to follow up on. There's some very interesting stuff potentially behind the scenes. But anyway, with that, we've got Professor Jeffrey Sachs standing by. Let's get to it. We are very excited now to be joined by our friend Professor Jeffrey Sachs, who is obviously a major geopolitical expert and he's gonna help us break down the Trump Ukraine and European summit that happened yesterday. Professor, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
- [06:08]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Great to be so.
- [06:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Professor, first we're gonna go through this so that you can help break this down through the audience kind of clip by clip and each one of those things that it represents to us. The major headline that came out of the summit was Trump not ruling out United States troops on the ground in Ukraine to provide some sort of Article 5 style security guarantee inside of Ukraine as some sort of grand peace deal with Russia. Here's Trump refusing to rule it out. Your team has talked about security guarantees. Could that involve U.S. troops? Would you rule that out in the future?
- [06:39]
Donald Trump
We'll let you know maybe later today we're meeting with seven great leaders of great countries also and we'll be talking about that. They'll all be involved, but there'll be a lot of, there'll be a lot of help when it comes to security. There's going to be a lot of help. It's going to be good. They are first line of defense because they're there, they're Europe, but we're going to help them out also. We'll be involved.
- [07:03]
Saagar Enjeti
We'll be involved. Professor so not refusing to, or basically refusing to rule out not putting US Troops on the ground. There were several other instances during the meeting where, where this, quote, article 5 style guarantee was brought up by many of the European leaders. Of course, we're hearing from the Kremlin, but first we want your reaction to what that would mean to the overall situation and Trump's rhetoric here and what it could potentially mean for any sort of peace deal.
- [07:28]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Well, I don't believe We've just had 11 years of war and that the war is about to stop because the United States or Europe says they're gonna have troops on the ground or Article 5 like agreements. This whole war started because the United States was pushing NATO to surround Russia and as far eastward as they could get. So I don't think that the Russian side is going to say, sure, whatever you like. What we saw yesterday was a, I wouldn't say a master class, but it was a class in ambiguity on everything. Nothing was clear, nothing was very truthful, nothing was settled. But there is a general recognition that Ukraine is losing on the battlefield, a general fact that the United States political scene is not going to continue any large scale war, proxy or otherwise, with Russia, and so that something should be done to end this. But the specifics are as vague as can be and deliberately so. And Trump thinks that the way to make deals is to prevaricate, to make things vague, to keep things behind the scenes, to pull each person in as his buddy, to say yes to everything in an oblique way. But it's not going to end with the Article 5 like guarantees. In my view, the Russians have been fighting against that basically for more than 30 years. They've been in a hot war over it for 11 years because this war started in February 2014 when the United States conspired in a coup to overthrow a neutralist government. And the Russians aren't going to just say, yeah, Trump, you're our buddy, you put troops if you want. I don't believe it. I think it would also be a terrible idea if the United States had troops in Ukraine.
- [09:46]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, and to your point, could put a 4 up on the screen, guys, Kremlin negatively reacting to that proposal of Article 5, like security guarantees, certainly no surprise there. You know, just zooming out a bit. Professor, I just love to get your thoughts on what are the core sticking points for the Russians. What would be a deal that they would be interested in? What sort of conditions would the us, the Ukrainians, the Europeans, the west broadly have to meet in order to conclude some sort of a grand peace deal and bring this war to a close?
- [10:18]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
We have to understand where the war came from and therefore how it can end. The war started with the continuation of the Cold War. After 1991, people thought there was peace, but the CIA, the Military Industrial complex, continued the effort to weaken Russia. Brzezinski talked about Russia falling into three pieces in a 1997 article, saying that maybe there'll be a loose confederation of a European Russia, a Siberian Russia, Far East Russia, but the US design was that Russia should finally basically be crushed, that the Cold War was with the Soviet Union. But we're not over yet. We're dominant. We won. And on that basis, Clinton began NATO enlargement. I say Clinton because basically every president then did the bidding of the military industrial complex. Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump won Biden. And maybe this is going to end this crazy misadventure. But this has been 30 years of trying to push NATO to Ukraine and to Georgia, by the way, in the south caucuses where the US meddling continues to this day. The idea is Russia is a big country and therefore it should be a weak country according to the US strategic doctrine. Okay, we overthrew a government in February 2014, installed a pro NATO regime. Russia immediately took back Crimea at that moment because the post coup government in Ukraine said, okay, we want Russia out of its Black Fleet naval base in Crimea. That's a naval base that Catherine the great established in 1783 and that has been core to Russia's national security and power since 1783. The United States, and let's say the deep state said we want Russia out of there. That was the same idea of the British and the French in 1853, have tried to get Russia out of Crimea in the Crimean War. Okay, enough history. The basic point is Russia does not want to be surrounded. It does not want NATO present. It does not want security guarantees like Article 5. It does not want Western troops on the ground. It wants Ukraine at a minimum to be a neutral buffer zone between the United States and its proxies and allies and Russia. That's the bottom line. So starting point, no NATO. Similarly, nothing that's NATO like or NATO light of you know, French and British troops and German troops, and that's what the war has been about. Second, Crimea is never going back. This is absolutely clear. This was a gambit. It was a. This was a ploy of NATO to grab Crimea. And the whole idea which Brzezinski spelled out in 1997, was if. If we can basically get Ukraine and push Russia out of the Black Sea, then Russia has no power in the Middle East. It has no power in the Eastern Mediterranean. And that was part of the strategy. So Crimea staying, then come the territories that Russia has annexed as of November 2022. This is two in the east and two in the south. The idea of this goes back to two points. One is that at least in the east, these are overwhelmingly ethnically Russian regions, the Donbas. And Russia said in 2015, make them autonomous. We don't want them as territory, but make them autonomous. Under a treaty called the Minsk II agreement, the United States, typically, because it was still in its expansionist mode, said no, told Ukraine, you don't have to honor that agreement. Russia did not claim those territories. It just said, leave them alone to have the Russian language, Russian ethnicity, and so forth. And Ukraine, in the post coup environment, said, no, we will take them in a unitary state. So Russia grabbed those back. Now it's claimed those back because the Minsk II agreement failed.
- [15:06]
Saagar Enjeti
The reason why I think the map is quite important, sir, is if you look at the red areas, this is my guess. This is, I mean, probably as accurate as it gets. This is the United States, you know, intelligence community creating this map for the president in the Oval Office, which he used. And as you were talking, you can actually see the percentage numbers that have been listed here by the US Intelligence community. If we zoom in, we can see some 70 to 80 to 90% of many of these provinces like you were talking or, sorry, these areas like you were talking about, and they're controlled by Russia. So you can just, as you can see from that map, it backs up much of what you're saying.
- [15:42]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
So the basic idea is that ironically, before the United States made the coup in February 2014, Russia was not claiming these territories at all. Not at all. We blew it for Ukraine because this is so typical of the CIA, by the way, we lose for our supposed friends. So when the coup came, and Kiev, that is the new central government in the post coup Ukraine, said, we'll crack down on the ethnic Russian regions in the east and the south. A treaty was brokered by Russia to stop what was then a beginning war called the Minsk 1 and then the Minsk 2 agreements. And the idea was that those regions, especially the two in the east, Lugansk and Donetsk, would be autonomous. Interestingly, by the way, just a little footnote, the model of that was a European model. In Italy, there is a German speaking region called South Tyrol which has autonomy within Italy. Actually, Chancellor Merkel, who was then the German chancellor, knew about that and said that the Minsk II agreement can be modeled like South Tyrol. In other words, an autonomous region in Italy, but of German speakers, but very peaceful, very successful, very beautiful, wonderful skiing and tourism, by the way. And they said that could be the solution. The United States wasn't having it, and the extremist nationalists in Ukraine were not having it. They said, no, no autonomy, unitary state. And they blew the chance to keep those provinces because after Russia's invasion, they control almost all of it. Now, that's what the shaded areas of the map are. The, the battle line control, the battlefield control that Russia has over these areas. Now, where does that bring us? Till today, Ukraine cannot win back those territories other than through a massive war, which could again be a massive failure, massive deaths, a massive escalation to nuclear war. So we can't really win those back. Ukraine has said every day we'll never give up a square meter of our territory. Impossible. This is all ours. The European leaders who were there yesterday have parroted that line. Well, what's the alternative? The alternative then is the fighting continues. If the fighting continues as it's continuing now, Russia will simply take those regions physically. It will proceed to take more territory, by the way, of Ukraine. And eventually, I think on the current scenario, Ukraine would simply be conquered. The hardline warmongers. And Mertz is a true warmonger. He is really disgusting in my view, by the way. Awful, Chancellor, just unbelievable. Every word he says is more war. Basically they say, sure, let's escalate. We won't give up an inch. Well, this already has been the last 11 years. I don't think Trump wants that. I don't think his MAGA base wants that. I don't think the American people want that. The Ukrainian people don't want that. The most recent Gallup survey in Ukraine said, stop this war. We're exhausted. More than a million Ukrainians have died. So all of this is to say that no NATO, a neutral Ukraine, Crimea is ours, and these four territories are contested. What is likely to happen is some de facto recognition that Russia controls these, that there will be a permanent peace. Maybe Ukraine in the end will not recognize them. De jure but if the war ends, it will end with these areas being under, let's say, permanent Russian control.
- [20:20]
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- [21:19]
Krystal Ball
CBS this Labor Day.
- [21:22]
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- [22:20]
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- [22:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Just to back you up on the Mertz point, the German chancellor set a condition which seems very important because one of the goals of this meeting was to eventually lead to a meeting between Donald Trump, Vladimir Zelensky and Vladimir Putin. What has now come out is that there is a disagreement within the European Union and by these major NATO powers as to the preconditions for that meeting. Chancellor Merce was probably the most pessimistic in his language, demanding an immediate ceasefire as a precondition. Guys, let's go ahead and take a listen, please. A three we all would like to see a ceasefire. The latest from the next meeting on. I can't imagine that the next meeting would take place without a ceasefire. So let's work on that and let's.
- [23:47]
Donald Trump
Try to put pressure on Russia, because.
- [23:50]
Saagar Enjeti
The credibility of these efforts, these efforts we are undertaking today are depending on at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations, from next step on. So I would like to emphasize this aspect and would like to see a ceasefire from the next meeting, which should be a trilateral meeting wherever it takes place. So you could see, he says, an immediate ceasefire. He was the most pessimistic in his language, but he was backed up by Emmanuel Macron. One of the things I also took note of is that even though Donald Trump, in his Truth Social post after the meeting, said there will be a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin and then eventually a trilateral, there was no such mention of any future meeting with Putin by Zelenskyy in his comments afterwards. It seems to be one that Trump wants to happen. So this precondition of a ceasefire seems to be the way that both the European Union, the major NATO powers in Zelenskyy, can get out of any future diplomacy. Or am I seeing it wrong?
- [24:52]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
You know, nobody speaks in a straightforward way. Maybe that's to be expected, but it's. It also is why we're at war endlessly, because there's dishonesty everywhere. There was no straightforward discussion. What are the alternatives? Mertz, he hasn't said one thing that I've agreed with since he became chancellor. And I would say that that's basically true of the German people. Also because Mertz's popularity is in a free fall, or his approval rating, let's say, is in a free fall, it's down to around 30%. He came in with the majority support, as you do when you've won an election and it's in freefall, because he doesn't make any sense. Russia will not agree to a ceasefire without a solution to the issues that we've been discussing. That's been Russia's position, understandably, by the way, in my opinion, from the start. Well, we are at war for reasons. Von Clausewitz, the German war theorist of the 19th century, famously said that war is a continuation of politics with other means. And so this is a very important observation. This is a war about politics. It's a war about NATO, it's a war about US Russia relations. It's a war about the US Overthrowing governments with impure unity. By the way, it seems to be a rule that once you've overthrown a few governments, you retire to Columbia University as my colleague, because we have Victoria Nuland, we have Hillary Clinton, we have Mike Pompeo. I don't know. And they teach diplomacy. This is unbelievable to me, but this is part of what this war is about, which is that the US acted with impunity after 1991 and told us that they would. The Project for a New American Century said, hey, we're not only the big kid on the block, we're the only kid on the block. We're the sole superpower. We are the world's policemen. We are the world's hegemon. We do what we want. That's what this war was about originally. Now, Trump, I think, probably understands that the American people are just sick of this. By the way. It's endless wars. It's not only this war, it's the wars throughout the Middle east that Israel wangles us into absolute destructive and vile wars, and the American people are sick of it. Nobody speaks straightforwardly. Trump doesn't explain, after Alaska or after yesterday, anything. There's no speech from the Oval Office. There's no explanation. We're in a different time from the time that I used to remember. Not that things were perfect, but if President Kennedy wanted to achieve a treaty with the Soviet Union, he'd give a speech, and then people would analyze the speech and understand it and so forth. Now we have true social posts that are completely ambiguous, mean nothing, and we're trying to parse what the words mean.
- [28:11]
Krystal Ball
And can be reversed the next day, by the way. Exactly the exact opposite thing. The next day when he's with someone else. I wanted to ask you about how Zelensky figures into all of this. Let's say that the vibes between him and Trump were very different this time than the Last time Zelenskyy was in the Oval Office. Go ahead, guys, and play a two.
- [28:30]
Saagar Enjeti
We had very good conversation with President Trump.
- [28:32]
Donald Trump
Very good.
- [28:33]
Saagar Enjeti
And it really was the best one, or, sorry, maybe the best one will be in the future. But it was really good. And we spoke about very sensitive points. The first one is security guarantees.
- [28:46]
Krystal Ball
And we are very happy with President.
- [28:48]
Saagar Enjeti
That all the leaders are here and security in Ukraine depends on the United States and on you and on those leaders who are with us.
- [28:58]
Krystal Ball
And Professor Zucker and I both noted he seems to have, like, really been working on his English. Clearly he realizes that it's very important he's able to have an effective relationship with President Trump here. But, you know, you said earlier it seems like the Ukrainian people are exhausted, want to bring this war to a close. It's not clear that their president is on board with that. You know, what do you make of his role and his positioning and what, what he wants to see going forward?
- [29:22]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
First, it's important to understand that there is martial law in Ukraine. We watch the videos also of people being forcibly knocked off their bicycles or dragged off the street to the front line to their death. And Zelensky is ruling over a military regime, not a democracy. His democratic term of office expired years ago, and he continues to rule by martial law, basically by, by decree. So I don't give any, I don't give any legitimacy to his statements as reflecting the will of the Ukrainian people. This is a starting point. I've never really admired what he's done because rather than signing a peace agreement that he had in front of him in April 2022, that would have ended this war on far better terms than anything that's going to happen now, he let the United States talk him out of that. Maybe he's a mere puppet anyway. But instead of signing an agreement that was on the table on April 15, 2022, in the so called Istanbul process, he walked away from a peace agreement. Since then, has lost massive territory and probably a million Ukrainian dead. So I'm no fan. I have to say I'm no admirer. I'm no believer that this is defending Ukrainian democracy. There is no democracy. And so one of the things that makes the idea that if Zelenskyy meets with Putin, he's shown to be on the big stage globally, and then he can maintain his power, either through winning a reelection, perhaps, or just expanding and extending his military rule. But this seems to be the carrot that Trump is dangling to Zelensky. I'll put you on the big Stage, we won't overthrow you. We won't let Putin dis you. You'll have respect, but you have to give in on this, this and this. So frankly, you know, Zelensky is, look, he's losing a war on the battlefield. He doesn't have the public support. He rules by martial law. By all accounts, which I can't personally verify, but by all accounts, the regime is incredibly corrupt. And so not only am I no fan, I think probably what Trump is trying to do is to appeal to the most narrow and the basest survival instincts of Zelensky himself and dangling this meeting with Putin, the big stage summit, as the prize and then getting Zelensky in one way or another to basically end the rhetoric of fighting on to restore the 1991 borders. I think that's what's happening.
- [32:30]
Saagar Enjeti
Last thing we wanted your take on, sir, is some of the continuation because, you know, the threat from the United States is, well, if this doesn't work, we'll just go to more sanctions. As if Russia is not the most sanctioned country in the world. Already we've actually seen. We can put a seven, please, here on the screen, both Lindsey Graham and the White House advisor Peter Navarro say that India's, quote, Russian crude oil buying must stop. Of course, even the imposition of 50% tariffs on India has not changed their behavior a single iota. In fact, Narendra Modi is posting about phone calls with President Putin just yesterday, I believe I was reading this morning that the Chinese foreign minister is actually in New Delhi as of this morning meeting with the Indian foreign minister. So they're basically holding up a middle finger to the US in response to these tariffs. So it does appear that many of the cards that are supposedly left to play both by the Europeans and the US don't really exist if they want to put any more, quote, pressure on Russia.
- [33:30]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Lindsey Graham is the worst senator in the U.S. senate. I just want to be on the record stating that I will state that every show you have me on. He's a fool, just a fool. Okay, let me put that aside to get onto the substance. The imposition of the 25% penalty tariff on India was the stupidest tactical move of US Foreign policy for a long time. And that's saying a lot. By the way, I could make a list of the top 10, the top 20.
- [34:05]
Krystal Ball
I'd like to see that list, Professor? Yes, if you make a list, why.
- [34:08]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Don'T we talk about that sometime? But what it did overnight was unify the brics countries as never before. That is Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. I watched it, by the way, pretty close up actually, because I know the leaders in all of these countries. Within 24, 48 hours, there was a flurry of calls. Brazil with India, Brazil with Russia. Brazil with China, China with India, China with Russia. Donald Trump was the great unifier of the bricks. And wonderful. Okay, I like the bricks, by the way. So I, I have no, I have no problem with that. But the opposite of what Lindsey Graham conceivably could have been thinking. Or Peter Navarro, who, okay, I'll put him on the list of probably the most incompetent PhD that my former department ever granted. He has a PhD in economics that apparently learned nothing. Certainly didn't take my class. But in any event, going after India, a country that the US has been cultivating for strategic and diplomatic relations, and it's a long story, but trying to get India on side against China and the so called quad arrangement and so many things. And Trump ended it overnight. Because by the way, Even if this 25% tariff penalty is removed, and I think it probably will be, the Indians learned a lesson that I was trying to tell them, by the way, for years. You cannot trust the United States. And they. No, no, we've got the inside track. We've got good relations. No, you don't. There's no ability to have a trusting relationship with the United States. This is improv land. And you're not going to get the kind of relationship that you think. Well, everybody in India understands that completely. Not only have the brics countries been pulled together, but in the media, in India, in the print and online media, non stop.
- [36:22]
Krystal Ball
We've covered some of that.
- [36:23]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Yeah, we played it here days and days. What is the United States doing? We have to find our friends and so forth. So this was a blunder that has zero practical import of getting anyone to any negotiating tables. Zero. But it completely undermined one strand of US foreign policy built up for years. I don't like that strand. So I like the brics so good. The brics are much stronger and more united now than ever. Fine. Donald Trump united them. Peter Navarro united them. Lindsey Graham united them. Congratulations.
- [37:02]
Saagar Enjeti
Totally agree.
- [37:03]
Krystal Ball
Professor, thank you so much for spending some time with us and helping us understand all these issues. We're going to have you back to get that top 10 list, though.
- [37:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, we do. Thank you very much, sir.
- [37:11]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Okay, let's do that. That'll be fun. All right, thanks.
- [37:13]
Krystal Ball
Have a great day.
- [37:14]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Great to be with you.
- [37:17]
iHeart Radio Announcer
The reviews and ratings are in and ICE Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer and to cap off the season, iHeart presents the Big Three basketball playoffs this Sunday at 3pm Eastern. The remaining four teams battle it out for the right to make the Big three championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big 3 Monster Energy Celebrity Game where your favorite stars compete in Big 33 on 3 basketball. Then the first of two semifinal games features Dwight Howard and the LA Riot taking on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J's first place Chicago Triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 305 with stars EM MVP Michael Beasley and Lance will make you Dan Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas power who finished the season winning five straight weeks to capture second place. Can Glenn Rice, Greg Monroe and Paul Millsap stop Miami's physical assault? Or will Miami and Beasley put an end to Dallas winning ways? Who will make it to the Big Three championship? This no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3pm Eastern, 12 Pacific only on.
- [38:16]
Krystal Ball
CBS this Labor Day.
- [38:19]
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- [39:17]
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American Military University is the number one provider of education to our military and veterans in the country. They offer something truly unique special rates and grants for the entire family making education affordable not just for those who serve, but also for their loved ones. If you have a military or veteran family member and are looking for affordable, high quality education, AMU is the place for you. Visit AMU Apus Edu Military to learn more That's AMU Apus Edu military.
- [39:54]
Krystal Ball
So, in addition, obviously to some of the comments we just played you about Ukraine and Russia in the summit yesterday, Trump also made some pretty interesting comments about our own elections, including announcing that he wants to get rid of mail in ballots altogether. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.
- [40:08]
Donald Trump
Mail in ballots are corrupt. Mail in ballots. You can never have a real democracy with mail in ballots. And we as a Republican Party are going to do everything possible that we get rid of mail in ballots. We're going to start with an executive order that's being written right now by the best lawyers in the country to end mail in ballots because they're corrupt. And do you know that we're the only country in the world. I believe I may be wrong, but just about the only country in the world that uses them because of what's happened. Massive fraud all over the place. The other thing we want change are the machines. For all of the money they spend, it's approximately 10 times more expensive than paper ballots. And paper ballots are very sophisticated with the watermark paper and everything else.
- [40:57]
Krystal Ball
He is wrong. There are dozens of countries that use mail in ballots around the world. But this dovetails with a true social post. He also put up this, the first element in this block, guys, we can throw this up on the screen. He says, I'm going to lead a movement to get rid of mail in ballots. And also while we're at it, highly inaccurate, very expensive and seriously controversial voting machines, which cost 10 times more than accurate and sophisticated watermark paper, which is faster, leaves no doubt the end of the evening as to who won and who lost the election. We are now the only country in the world that uses mail in voting. Again, not true. All others gave it up because the massive voter fraud encounter. We will begin this effort, which will be strongly opposed by the Democrats because they cheat at levels never seen before by signing an executive order to help bring honesty to the 2026 midterm elections. So TLDR here, he's saying he's going to sign an executive order that will get rid of mail in ballots. He targets this directly at the midterm elections and says effectively the only reason that Democrats win is because they cheat. This comes on the heels of some comments he made after his meeting with Putin where he claims Putin told him, you gotta get rid of these mail in ballots. This is absolutely Preposterous. This is B3, guys. Let's go.
- [42:13]
Saagar Enjeti
This is what he said. Putin said.
- [42:14]
Krystal Ball
This is what exactly. Yeah, which is what claimed that Putin said, which maybe he did. I mean, it would be the sort of thing that Putin could say to sort of play to his ego, et cetera. Anyway, let's go ahead and play, baby.
- [42:25]
Donald Trump
Vladimir Putin said something, one of the most interesting things. He said your election was rigged because you have mail in voting. He said, mail in voting every election. He said, no country has mail in voting. It's impossible to have mail in voting and have honest elections. And he said that to me. It was very interesting because we talked about 2020. He said, you won that election by so much. And that's how he got it. He said, and if you would have won, we wouldn't have out of war. You'd have all these millions of people alive now instead of dead. And he said, and you lost it because of mail in voting. It was a rigged election. But mail in voting, Sean.
- [43:01]
Krystal Ball
So there you go again, insisting that we're the only country that does it. That's just simply not true. But in any case, Sagar, what did you make of these comments?
- [43:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Actually, apparently in Russia, you know what's really crazy? You can actually vote online in some places, which sounds even, frankly, like mushrooms, more insecure. I mean, does your vote count for anything? I'm not so sure.
- [43:18]
Krystal Ball
A bunch of people showed images. Trump himself has voted mail in. By the way, man, we gotta get.
- [43:23]
Saagar Enjeti
With the Russian playbook. People who cannot come to a polling station who are elderly or disabled can request that election officials bring a portable ballot box to their home. Not the same as the mail in system. It's much more courteous. Remote mail in voting or remote online voting in certain regions. Not in Moscow. Opposition groups have raised concerns about. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be saying this because it's not exactly. The Russian elections are like the greatest free and fair, Most free and fair in the whole world. This has always been my biggest beef with the gop, and it's one of those which really annoys me because two of the states, because a marshal is from Oregon, and I think I was there in Oregon visiting them when they were voting, and I saw them fill out their ballots and I was like, wait, so you guys don't vote in person at all? Their voter participation is actually very high and it's super convenient. Like, they get it at home. Everybody goes through and, like, fills out their ballot and you can go and drop it off at a number of locations. There is identity verification, like in terms of sending it in, but their voter participation is actually quite high. I mean, that's all what I really care about. I think high voter participation is good. One of the things which is also annoying, this is very outdated, is that in the old days the Republicans would win the low turnout elections and the Democrats would win the high turnout election. Republicans now have switched it and are much better off with low turnout voters, as we saw in the 2024 election. So you actually want more people to vote in your election? Yeah, listen, I mean these, the people who dominate low turnout elections, like suburban white ladies and activists and all these other people, you don't want those people to be the only people who can vote because they'll drag their ass across town to go stand in line for two or three hours a day. It's the workman or electrician or something like that who is much less likely to come out and vote unless they feel very strongly to actually do so. So just purely from like a tactical point of view, I don't think it makes a lot of sense. But that's just, look, I mean, in terms of his ability to do it, as I understand it, they can try to use the DHS to set standards, but in part of the reason why we are where we are with the most inaccurate, like, voting system in terms of like compiling votes in a long, over a short period of time, it's because we have completely unfederalized elections, which is a lot of pluses and minuses. Like pluses. Now when Trump is president, he can't just come in and decree how Oregon or whatever is going to count votes. But the minus is, what is it? New York takes three or four weeks to count vote. It's ridiculous. California and New York, it's out. And that is the one thing I just wish Dems would acknowledge. It's like, guys can't do it this way. It undermines trust in the system and it's just ridiculous. I mean, the most developed countries in the world can count votes in 24 hours. And even lesser developed countries, countries like India, Brazil, Brazil has results in like 24 hours, you know, and I think in the UK, Australia, all of them, every time I've covered their elections, we know the exact winner, you know, the night of, even in fractional ones, like in France, where they have to tally up various different, like, parties and look at the percentage base. So that's the one thing where, for the Democratic states, they have to stop pretending like their voting system isn't just weird to the naked eye. And that's what provides a lot of this stuff for the conspiracy theorists. I'm not saying they're correct. I'm just pointing out the inefficiency is a huge problem.
- [46:38]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Fair. In fairness though, it's not California or New York's results that have been disputed by Trump.
- [46:44]
Saagar Enjeti
No.
- [46:45]
Krystal Ball
Because they're not swing states.
- [46:46]
Saagar Enjeti
I am not saying that whatsoever.
- [46:47]
Krystal Ball
I'm just saying that the conspiracy theorists would find a reason to be unhappy with the results that don't go their way no matter what.
- [46:54]
Saagar Enjeti
Absolutely.
- [46:54]
Krystal Ball
And so that's why I think one aspect of this is you're right. Tactically, this is absolutely idiotic. We have brains and memories longer than a goldfish and can remember back to 2020 when arguably Trump lost the election because of the way that he derided mail in balloting. And it's very possible that that made up the margin in some key states.
- [47:17]
Saagar Enjeti
It definitely did.
- [47:18]
Krystal Ball
Especially In Georgia in 2024, they learned the lesson. They had very aggressive, quote unquote ballot harvesting processes, especially in state like Pennsylvania. They really encouraged mail in voting. And lo and behold, Trump wins. Not to say that was the only factor, but it certainly didn't hurt that they were actually availing themselves of all of the methods with which they could gather votes and get their voters to the polls. And now he seemingly has forgotten that lesson. On the other hand, because this executive order is not going to be able to get rid of mail in balloting across the country because it states quite plainly in the Constitution that the states are responsible for setting the time and manner in place of the voting. What this is really, in my opinion all designed to do is to cast doubt on the electoral results. So if things go very poorly for him in the midterms, which they are pretty likely to do just historically and judging by where his approval rating is and how people feel about the Republican Party having complete control of DC Right now, so that he can then say this was all rigged, this was all fake, and really cast doubt in the same way that he did in 2020 with regards to the presidential election, cast doubt on those results as well. And then you're off to the races with challenging as members of Congress come to be sworn in and to be seated, then you're challenging individual members. This was rigged, this wasn't fair, et cetera. And, and creating a giant chaotic mess that he can try to use to his advantage. I think that's more what this is about. And remember, this isn't the first thing that he's done or said with regard to voting and elections. He also had a big executive order earlier. He's been trying to get some of the election rolls and voting apparatus from different states sent to D.C. for analysis. So this is an ongoing project and this is the latest iteration of this. He also said something that was quite striking about the. As Professor Sachs was just reminding and informing all of us, Ukraine right now is not a democracy. Zelensky rules by military fiat effectively. And Trump seemed very interested in learning about this when he was sitting there with Zelensky. This is before. Guys, let's go ahead and take a listen.
- [49:33]
Donald Trump
So you say during the war you can't have elections. So let me just say three and a half years from now. So you mean if we happen to be in a war with somebody, no more elections. Oh, that's good. I wonder what the fake.
- [49:49]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
You like this idea?
- [49:51]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, it's really funny.
- [49:52]
Krystal Ball
Hilarious.
- [49:53]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, it's very hilarious too for Zelensky, you know, inviting the thing on democracy to joke about canceling elections. It's just super hilarious. This is part of the hypocrisy, like on the entire thing. Crystal. I wish I could say that it was conspiracy theory, everything you just laid out, but considering what happened in 2020, can't really say that, can we?
- [50:09]
Krystal Ball
No, that's it.
- [50:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [50:09]
Krystal Ball
It's like, well, he's joking. But is he? And we can.
- [50:13]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, not about the war thing, but about what you were saying about contesting potential races. Yeah, it's like, well you know, you already did it and you know, Congress is full of a lot of other people. Would they really willingly want to turn over power? Especially if the Democrats take it. They could set up a huge fight with Mike Johnson with more establishment Republicans and you can imagine the MTGs or whatever the world contest or at least turning it into a show. I mean, who the hell knows, right? In terms of accepting members. Cuz the body has to accept to swear them in. I mean, I guess it could be uncharted territory.
- [50:49]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. And here's the other thing with regard to those specific comments about oh hey, maybe if you have a war you don't have to have an election is we have seen the playbook that he has used in this administration where what does he do? He uses the pretext of a supposed emergency in order to claim more extraordinary powers. I mean big balls being beaten up in D.C. and now we've got National Guard coming in from all over the country for this to stand around in Georgetown or on the National Mall or at Union Station or whatever you have. The tariffs are justified based on a quote unquote emergency. This is the playbook that he has used time and again throughout this administration. So is it really so crazy to think that this guy, who has never showed any indication that he ever wants to give up Bauer in any circumstance, and who could face, again, potential legal ramifications if he is no longer President of the United States, Certainly a possibility that continues to be on the table. Do we really think that it's crazy to imagine he's considering the potential mechanisms to continue to stay in power past when he is democratically elected? I don't think it's that crazy to consider, especially when you have. We can play this next one. He has a place in the White House where he's got campaign merch, which, first of all, again, any other president you would be like, this is a scandal, right with him. It's just like people don't even notice. But not only does he have campaign merch, he's got Trump 2028 campaign merch, sort of like hidden away that he was showing off to the head of Azerbaijan recently in the White House. Let's go ahead and take a look at that.
- [52:34]
Donald Trump
You know, you're not allowed to run, I admitted. So here's every word. I'm 28 points higher than anyone. Everybody wants me to run, but including, you know, it's funny. So this strategy, crazy look, four more years ago. So it's sort of cool.
- [52:52]
Krystal Ball
Bannon also says he's getting, you know, they're going to figure out Trump 2028. Trump says different things about this at different times, but again, he recently said he wouldn't run. Yeah, you just, you just can't put anything past him. And whether he actually runs again or whether he. He comes up with some pretext of emergency, says we're not having the elections, whether he has some sort of a puppet who he feels like he can control and has to come and pay homage to him personally, I don't see any indication that until he is, you know, until he is done with this world, that he is going to just willingly hand off power.
- [53:24]
Saagar Enjeti
I think he won't run again, but he'll do what I predicted, which is be the king in waiting down in Mar A Lago who can constantly derail things, you know, with a truth social post or any of that, he can be the anointer of the Republican Party. I've used the analogy to Ronald Reagan, and I think I've also just wondered. Watching Trump now, I genuinely think he might be bored of actually being president. I remember noticing that whenever I would interview him, it's like he's Almost childlike, like gets distracted by things that are literally on his desk. And that's why he's been doing all of these great renovation projects in the ballroom.
- [53:58]
Krystal Ball
You love them.
- [54:00]
Saagar Enjeti
The Rose Garden or, or the gilded office or the ballroom or the flag pole. He spends a lot of time looking at these things. I'm not making this. Remember he went on the rooftop, right. That seems to be what a decent amount of his attention is actually captured on. Is leaving his own imprint on the White House. Probably the most transformative, the physical real estate of the White House since Harry Truman, who oversaw a total renovation of the building.
- [54:27]
Krystal Ball
But also definitely the most queer coded president with this love of Broadway musicals and interior design.
- [54:34]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, I wouldn't go that far because there's nothing.
- [54:36]
Krystal Ball
And makeup and hair and makeup.
- [54:38]
Saagar Enjeti
There's nothing tasteful about. Maybe this is stereotypical, but there's nothing tasteful about the gilded decorations.
- [54:43]
Krystal Ball
Quite the opposite.
- [54:44]
Saagar Enjeti
Quite the opposite. That's what I mean. So it's actually very masculine coded if you ask me. It's like, you know, it's what somebody would think is a good idea of decoration. If anybody's been watching HBO's the Gilded Age, it's a very, it reminds me a lot of how that stuff looks or if you've ever spent any time in the Middle east, that's basically what the Saudis, the Qataris and all this stuff think is tasteful in terms of their decoration. Just my own personal bias. Just saying, you know, not exactly the way I would do it, but yeah, generally here with Trump, the most likely. Look, the mail in ballot thing is probably DOA in terms of the way that they actually want to do it. Sowing or questioning election results. Nobody's going to question that. That's definitely going to happen if they lose. There's just no question, right. In terms of how it operationalizes and all of that. I tend to think it'll probably won't go anywhere, but I could be wrong. You know, he is the president and he can actually do a lot of whatever he wants. And this time around, you know, you've got Pam Bondi and these other morons who work for him, so who knows, right? It's actually, I mean, there's a lot more up in the air where, you know, MAGA and other people rightfully in the past would have been like, oh, that's not going to happen. But now it's like, well, I don't know, you know, I, I personally don't know.
- [55:52]
Krystal Ball
Did you see they brought in some other guy to be co FBI deputy alongside Dan Bongino. I mean, it's definitely like a demotion for Dan Bongino. I think it was like the Missouri AG or something like that.
- [56:02]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes, Missouri AG promoted him to the deputy. Yeah. I think Bongino's being punished for speaking out.
- [56:09]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [56:10]
Saagar Enjeti
If I have to.
- [56:10]
Krystal Ball
Because remember, he had that whole like, you know, sort of like mental breakdown and then there were the rumors that he was gonna resign and then he came back and whatever.
- [56:18]
Saagar Enjeti
There were no rumors. It was him on the phone. I can exclusively report.
- [56:21]
Krystal Ball
Okay.
- [56:22]
Saagar Enjeti
It's not a rumor. All right. Whenever he calls people and says, hey.
- [56:24]
Krystal Ball
I'm thinking, I'm thinking of resigning. Just so you all know, apparently that's that's going on.
- [56:29]
Big 3 Basketball Announcer
The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, iheart presents the Big 3 Basketball Championship and 8th Annual Big 3 All Star Game this coming Sunday, August 21st 4th live from Orlando, the remaining two teams fight it out for the Big 3 Championship Dr. J Trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. Don't miss the wild conclusion of Big Three's eighth and most historic season ever. This is the game no one wants to lose and there's no crying in the Big three. The action starts with the Big Three eighth Annual All Star Game. Don't miss All Stars Dwight Howard, Montrez, Harold, MVP Mike Michael, Beasley, Lance will make you Dan Stevenson, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nazir Kor and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Big Three's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new Big Three champion. The no holds part action starts Sunday at 2pm Eastern, 11 Pacific only on.
- [57:29]
Krystal Ball
CBS this Labor Day.
- [57:31]
Washable Sofas / PayPal / Lenovo Advertiser
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- [58:30]
American Military University Announcer
American Military University is the number one provider of education to our military and veterans in the country. They offer something truly unique, special rates and grants for the entire family, making education affordable not just for those who serve, but also for their loved ones. If you have a military or veteran family member and are looking for affordable, high quality education, AMU is the place for you. Visit AMU Apus Edu Military to learn more. That's AMU Apus Edu Military.
- [59:06]
Krystal Ball
Let's put B6 up on the screen. This is kind of the last piece to put this, you know, the pieces all in place. This was from a little while ago, but Trump is demanding a new census to exclude undocumented immigrants and redraw all the lines. Now, do I think they're going to be able to, to pull this up before the midterm elections? Census collection, it takes them years. They're already preparing 10 year purpose. They're already preparing for the 2030 census now. So, you know, the idea that they'd be able to pull this off in time without court challenges and get all the maps redrawn, I don't think that's gonna happen. But you do have, you know, the state of Texas is redrawing their maps. California. This will transition us into Gavin and what's going on there. California is likely to retaliate and redraw their maps as well. There are some other red states. There are more red states that could redraw maps that have full Republican control than there are Democratic states. But all of this is a long way of saying, I think the playbook is number one. They're going to try to tilt the playing field as much as they can to mitigate the potential midterm losses. So that's number one. And number two, as part of that, there's going to be more of this casting doubt on mail in ballots and casting down on the process and creating the pretext and the narrative so that if and when they do perform poorly in the midterms, that he can continue to sow doubt on various electoral results. And I guess the question is whether or not it's going to be, quote, unquote, too big to rig. Because if you have Democrats, let's Say win the House, but it's by two seats. Then you could see an all out court challenges, court challenges, an all out narrative attack on those. Whichever results were the closest in whichever states they have the most ability to cast doubt on. If it's like could be in California and then the things you were saying about how long it takes to cast the ballots, that could come into play. You could see the way that this would all play out. Because while it's not the end of the world for Trump, if Democrats do win the House, it would mean that they have subpoena power and they could cause some trouble. He hasn't interested himself too much outside of the one big beautiful bill and actually passing legislation through the House and the Senate. He prefers to act through executive orders, so it's not like that aspect of his power would be curtailed. But yeah, if you got Democrats in there doing subpoenas on the Epstein files, on all of the incredible corruption rife throughout this administration, it could be an issue for him. He could end up getting impeached yet again. That's certainly a possibility that's on the table. So it's not something that he is wanting to see unfold.
- [61:44]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I think it's. I don't know. I have no idea. Like you said, it could be several different scenarios. If you win 40 seats, then two seats challenging or whatever is not gonna happen.
- [61:53]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [61:53]
Saagar Enjeti
Or any of that. I will say on the census point, that is something I 100% we've fought about this before, if you'll recall from the first Trump administration about the idea that illegals should count in the US Census as if they deserve representation when you're literally not here legally in the country. It is a major actually argument from the commerce clause, which orige department which conducts the census. And if you'll recall, one of the first times that I truly realized how incompetent the Trump administration was is when they tried to do this in their first term, which again actually would have changed. The 2020 census result is whenever they implemented a rule, but the Supreme Court struck it down actually because they did not do the rule properly misfiled the paperwork, and then Wilbur Ross lied about it actually at the time. But I know that there's all these legal fights about whether illegal should count or not, but I mean, at a principal level, it's preposterous. The idea that if you're here illegally.
- [62:49]
Krystal Ball
In the country, your beef is with the Constitution.
- [62:52]
Saagar Enjeti
No, Chris, specifically. I've heard this late.
- [62:56]
Krystal Ball
In each state.
- [62:57]
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
Okay.
- [62:57]
Saagar Enjeti
So I've heard this lib nonsense now for a long time, but there's still a lot of questions about that. Persons and citizenship as to how it should be. It has not yet faced any scrutiny.
- [63:06]
Krystal Ball
At the number of persons.
- [63:07]
Saagar Enjeti
I'll repeat, has not faced representation or any scrutiny before the United States Supreme Court.
- [63:13]
Krystal Ball
That may be True.
- [63:14]
Saagar Enjeti
Could envision 35 million people here living illegally getting representation in the Congress.
- [63:19]
Krystal Ball
Get the Constitution changed. But the Constitution.
- [63:21]
Saagar Enjeti
Change the Constitution.
- [63:22]
Krystal Ball
Hold on, Thackeray. The Constitution specifically refers in the places where it's only for citizens. It specifically refers to citizens here. It says the whole number of persons in each state. So you may not like it, you may not think that was what the founders intended. That is what the Constitution says.
- [63:39]
Saagar Enjeti
As I said, it has faced zero scrutiny before the US Supreme Court. The only time that's ever gone down was whenever it was improperly implemented in 2018 because of Wilbur Ross. I would ask again for any person to think it is reasonable in any way that some 30. Nope, by the way, nobody even knows that number is like probably a lower estimate that who are living here illegally deserve representation in the US Congress. Which skews things, by the way. This is like the Republican fantasy dream that people get imported into the country and then it increases their overall congressional representation in the United States. It's ridiculous. It's almost like quasi citizenship giving the ability for a number of electoral votes. If the illegals were all deported, who even knows the number of electoral votes for the way that our system would change? So I mean, there's just. I think it's indefensible the idea that people here are deported.
- [64:28]
Krystal Ball
I think the Electoral College is indefensible.
- [64:30]
Saagar Enjeti
Oh, come on.
- [64:31]
Krystal Ball
I think that the way the Senate is designed is indefensible. But I don't pretend like the, you know, like it's set up any differently or like I have some court challenge.
- [64:39]
Big 3 Basketball Announcer
I can.
- [64:40]
Saagar Enjeti
Do you really believe people here illegally should count to the United States?
- [64:43]
Krystal Ball
I do. For Electoral College, I genuinely think who.
- [64:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Can spew blue states.
- [64:47]
Krystal Ball
First of all, I think that we should have a path to citizenship. So you have many fewer millions of people in the shadows who are undocumented.
- [64:53]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, that's very convenient. No, but for legalizing these people, giving.
- [64:56]
Krystal Ball
Them political power, there are all sorts of reasons why people who are here in this country, who are living and working and part of communities deserve political representation. But putting my feelings aside about it, the Constitution is pretty clear about it.
- [65:09]
Saagar Enjeti
As I have said, it's not clear. It's never faced scrutiny before. The U.S. supreme Court. And we will find out how it actually. Hopefully will find out how it actually. I just think, look, again, I ask any reasonable person, again, Texas would lose.
- [65:20]
Krystal Ball
A lot of power.
- [65:21]
Saagar Enjeti
Fine, I don't care. Go ahead. I don't give a shit.
- [65:23]
Krystal Ball
It's not even like a Republican thing. This is all a lib plot. I mean, that's the way that it's frequently portrayed with some like lib plot if it's wolf to their revolution. But it's not even that at this point.
- [65:36]
Saagar Enjeti
Okay, no, no, no. First of all, California is. Nobody again even knows the population. It could be up to 10% of the population population of California, maybe even more.
- [65:43]
Krystal Ball
California and Texas are the two states that have the largest population.
- [65:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, yeah, they're also the number two undocumented immigrants most populated state. So they would still have proportional number of reputations.
- [65:51]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, they would still have large Republicans.
- [65:52]
Saagar Enjeti
But I'm saying though that California, the idea that their appropriation should be based on the population of illegals is crazy. I mean, and then same again, I don't care whether it leads to more Republican or Democrats. This is purely a philosophical thing. It's ridiculous, this idea. New York, Sorry, my earpiece is falling out. But New York, I'm trying to think of any of the other states that would be probably majorly impacted. I think Florida as well. But my point is on that one is it will all decrease in all of the populated states. Two of the states that we just listed are red, two of the states are blue. So fine, again, I could care less how it actually works out. Like in the immediate term, I'm saying purely from this idea, and this has been a scandal, I think from the very beginning of mass illegal immigration that very few people ever actually want to acknowledge or talk about. And pathway to citizenship though is exactly, is basically rewarding people with political power for breaking the law. There's no other class of people that gets rewarded with political power with representation in the Congress for breaking law. Felons can't even vote in like half the states in the entire country.
- [66:53]
Krystal Ball
But illegal states, which should also. Which should also be changed. I also wildly oppose. I think people who are in prison should be able to vote. But I know I'm out on a limb with someone. But in any case, you know, I mean, let's not spiral into a whole immigration debate. But I think we can acknowledge the immigration system has been completely broken. I am of the view you disagree that immigrants are a benefit to the country, that it is good to have people Wanting to come to this country, that they contribute to society, that they are part, integral, part of what makes America America. And so, you know, to support pathway to citizenship, to grant those people status, who have been here, have been working, who have been paying taxes, doing the right thing. I agree with that. And at this point I think that's a very rosy.
- [67:35]
Saagar Enjeti
First of all, that's not true. But second, no, no, it's okay. The polling on what, because the wage is framed is nice little rosy little picture, right? So it's like, oh, the guy who came yesterday gets to also get a pathway to citizenship. What about the guy who came 40 years ago? That's why everybody groups all immigrants in the same group. And they don't divide anybody by education, status, gdp, income, ability to contribute to the country, whether they're gonna be on welfare. When you actually start to get down in the nitty gritty, it's like, do you think people are gonna be on welfare for 50 years, deserve citizenship? Absolutely not. Of course not. Most people would radically oppose that. So that's my point. It's just that broadly the way that this is all being framed right now, and I get it, you'll get smoke from this, from the liberals, but the point is that when you actually pose a lot of this to people, the details matter more than anything. So this whole pathway to citizenship question and political power, I think if more people knew that their electoral system was being rigged on behalf of a lot of illegals, they would be furious about it. Now I'm not sitting here claiming the election election is stolen. It's the way that it's always been, so be it. As I have always said, it should be changed in my opinion, for the U.S. supreme Court. But you know, I just think that it's, this is a classic, in my opinion, Democratic like overreading of what people actually think about immigration.
- [68:45]
Krystal Ball
64% of registered voters favor giving most undocumented immigrants with a legal status. 31% prefer deportation. Support is strong among Democrats, 89% independent, 71% Republicans are the only ones who net oppose it.
- [68:58]
Saagar Enjeti
This is like saying that Medicare for all is popular whenever like, well, okay, but then I'm like, okay, what about transgender surgeries? Is that going to be covered by taxpayer dollars? Absolutely not.
- [69:06]
Krystal Ball
Medical care across the board.
- [69:08]
Saagar Enjeti
See, this is what I mean about defining terms. And it's like, so welfare, transgender care, a vaccine, you're going to mandate all vaccines for all the time.
- [69:16]
Krystal Ball
How does that relate to Medicare for all?
- [69:18]
Saagar Enjeti
Because if it's a one payer system Then they could deny you coverage and you can seek no actual like individual ability to go and pick whatever type of doctor. That's what a government run system would look like for coverage. Then they can just.
- [69:29]
Krystal Ball
That's not the way Medicare works. Saga. No, but.
- [69:31]
Saagar Enjeti
No, but it is. Because if they're refusing to cover things or you can get denied coverage. This is a classic example of all socialized medicine systems. It's one of control.
- [69:40]
Krystal Ball
That's not true. No, but it is. I mean, there are many ways you can do this. Medicare, you know, people are happy with Medicare. It costs less than the private health insurance system. And yes, Medicare for all is very popular.
- [69:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes.
- [69:55]
Krystal Ball
The reason it doesn't exist is because of a political class that is opposed to it. With regard to immigration, we have seen, and I think you would agree with this, a huge backlash to Trump era policies.
- [70:06]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes, I agree.
- [70:07]
Krystal Ball
That have led people to be quite supportive actually of immigrants, seeing them as a net benefit to society just in general, which actually majority has always felt that way. And supporting specific policy proposals such as a path to citizenship for most undocumented immigrants. On the specific question of how people feel about the census, I don't know. I don't think they know. Right. I don't think they probably thought. I have no idea. But just to bring it all back before we go any further afield so we can talk about Gavin Newsom and his fricking memes, I will just say we'll see what happens at the Supreme Court with the census, if they're even competent enough to, to get it to that point. Because the plain face reading of the Constitution says all persons. It does not specify citizen noncitizen the way that you want it to. And so we'll see. Then again, listen, this court is very political, so they may find some convoluted way to interpret it that way. But certainly the plain face reading of the Constitution says all whole persons and we'll leave it at that.
- [71:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, look, we'll see with that. I agree. All right.
- [71:15]
Krystal Ball
Foreign.
- [71:24]
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