8/21/25: Megyn Kelly Reveals Israel Pressure Campaign, Alleged P3do Hires Trump Pro-Israel Appointee, Saagar Rips Anti Property Tax Boomers, Tech Elites Eugenics

Summary

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Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Date: August 21, 2025
Main Themes: Pro-Israel lobbying influence, Israeli government scandal, property tax politics, and the resurgence of tech-driven eugenics.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the political and social issues shaping current discourse:

• The pressure campaign by pro-Israel groups on media figures and politicians, with recently publicized pushback from Megyn Kelly
• The media blackout and political influence surrounding the case of Tom Alexandrovich, an Israeli official tied to a child sex sting in Nevada
• A critical take on property tax abolition efforts and their generational impact, with Saagar critiquing what he calls a "boomer giveaway"
• An exploration of "designer babies" and eugenic thinking resurging among tech elites, linking historical horrors to today's practices

Krystal and Saagar provide sharp, independent commentary, highlighting how mainstream and conservative media often avoid uncomfortable topics due to donor influence.

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Segments & Key Insights

1. Megyn Kelly, Israel, and the Pressure Campaign

Starts at 02:08

Key Points:

• Megyn Kelly's Pushback: Describes being persistently contacted by pro-Israel groups (such as AIPAC) to participate in curated trips to Israel. She notes increased pressure as her views shift post-October 2023, feeling groups fear "they're losing" her.
• Media “Beatdown”: Kelly describes how even mild deviation from pro-Israel orthodoxy is met with strong backlash—“You're not allowed to... you have to stay right on this lily pad.”
• Pressure on Journalists and Politicians: Saagar and Krystal recount their early careers, when they too were aggressively courted by pro-Israel groups.
  • Saagar: “You want to go to Israel? Yeah, they... Jamaal Bowman talked about how he didn't want to meet with them... and they went through this... respected black men's organization in New York to basically trick him or strong-arm him into meeting with them.” (04:29)
• Shift in Public Opinion: The younger, online right (and almost all Democrats) are drifting away from unwavering support for Israel.
  • Saagar: “Public Israel is only supported by older Republicans at this point.” (06:44)

Notable Quotes:

• Megyn Kelly [02:49]:
  “[I] have had multiple, multiple reach outs to me, both from friends and from connected people in D.C. begging me to go to Israel with them... I can feel the pressure being slightly ratcheted up.”
• Saagar [04:56]:
  “You gotta respect the game. In some ways, [AIPAC] are aggressive about cultivating anyone and everyone. And that's part of why they have had such a lock on D.C. both parties for so many years.”

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2. The Israeli Official Pedo Sting & Media Blackout

Starts at 06:58, Deep Dive at 14:39

Key Points:

• Media Silence: Krystal highlights widespread avoidance of the Tom Alexandrovich child sex sting case by conservative and mainstream outlets. Suggests donor control is suppressing coverage.
  • Krystal: “Not one mention on Fox News. Not one mention on the Ben Shapiro show or anyone over at the Daily Wire. Not one single mention...”
• Las Vegas Connections: Alexandrovich is defended by David Chesnoff, Nevada’s most powerful (and pro-Israel) attorney. Chesnoff is closely connected with local DA, having donated $30k to his campaign.
• Extradition Loopholes: Saagar details historical difficulty in extraditing accused Israelis, citing a 2005 protocol riddled with loopholes.
• Federal Involvement Suspicions: The acting U.S. Attorney for Nevada, a prominent Zionist and Trump appointee, deleted her Twitter after scrutiny. FBI/HSI agents’ questionable early actions raise eyebrows but lack definitive proof.
• Unequal Justice: Alexandrovich remains the only sting suspect uncharged, with DA publicly floating probation (“the road is set to the sweetheart deal of all time”).

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal [15:15]:
  “He (Chesnoff) is a very pro Israel lawyer, the most powerful one in Nevada. ... Donated $30,000 to the Clark County DA Steve Wolfson, the very person prosecuting Alexandrovich.”
• Saagar [19:46]:
  “When is the last time Israel returned a charged American pedophile? ... It took 11 years to return him... The Israeli legal system... has multiple loopholes for any Israeli citizen facing extradition.”
• Krystal [25:03]:
  “This is why national media could cover this story easily if they wanted to... They won't touch it, and I think the reason why is cause it's about conspiracy, right?”

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3. The Property Tax War: Saagar’s Generational Rant

Starts at 28:59

Key Points:

• GOP’s Push to Abolish Property Tax: Cites Marjorie Taylor Greene, DeSantis, and others championing abolition, as popular with homeowners and especially the elderly.
• Who Benefits?: Seniors already receive substantial exemptions (e.g., Florida, Texas). Saagar frames the movement as a “massive giveaway to the old,” further locking young people out of home ownership.
• Equity, Intergenerational Responsibility: Krystal and Saagar argue that everyone benefits from public services (schools, healthcare). Dismissing obligations once one has “used” a service (like public schools) is selfish and unsustainable.
  • Saagar: “If you own a home, you’re much more likely to have some sort of wealth that you’ve accumulated... Already get big tax breaks... You get federal mortgage interest deduction.”
• Calls for Progressive Reform: Rather than reduce taxes for older or richer homeowners, Saagar urges breaks for young and first-time buyers, funded by a more progressive tax code.

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal [31:58]:
  “Their theory is that we have to pay for their retirement... but they get property tax, school tax frozen, and now they want to eliminate it entirely... It's a total abdication by the boomer generation.”
• Saagar [35:14]:
  “If you are getting rid of property tax and shifting that burden over to a sales tax... You are giving a tax cut to the rich and you are funding it with a working class tax hike.”
• Saagar [45:20]:
  “Did you go to school at one point in your life? Did people pay taxes so that you could go to school?”
• Krystal [43:54]:
  “It is a tax cut for the rich... that's disproportionately who’s gonna benefit from it.”

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4. Tech Elites, Eugenics, and “Designer Babies”

Saagar’s Monologue at 45:32, with guest Noor Siddiqui

Key Points:

• Modern Eugenics: Saagar recounts the history of eugenics, then draws direct parallels to today's Silicon Valley “genetic optimization” ventures (Orchid, Nucleus Genomics, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk).
• The Moral Dilemma: Noor Siddiqui (Orchid founder) tells how her mother’s genetic blindness inspired her work. She frames embryo selection as a “positive moral choice” (48:07, 50:31).
  • Siddiqui: “It is the responsible decision as a parent... to detect that risk at the earliest possible stage.”
• Slippery Slope & Class Division: The quest for high-IQ babies among tech elites mirrors past eugenicist thinking—creating a new class divide as only the rich can afford to optimize children genetically.
• Racialist Thinking & Right-Wing Racism: The segment highlights how eugenics logic feeds overt racist rhetoric—Nick Fuentes: “It's more nature than people would like to believe...” (54:50), with Saagar meticulously debunking genetic determinism in IQ.
• Conservative/Progressive Dilemmas: Krystal admits widespread societal complicity: “Everyone in the US softly kind of supports or by choice is participating in eugenicism.” (66:29)
• Defining Humanity: Both hosts agree that true human worth is not in genes, but in intrinsic dignity—“...you just simply are. Are what you are.” (69:23)

Memorable Moments & Quotes:

• Saagar [45:32]:
  “As with other ugly discredited ideologies... eugenics is back.”
• Noor Siddiqui [50:31]:
  “I think that it is a positive moral choice... It is the responsible decision as a parent... I don't think that there's any moral question there.”
• Krystal [66:29]:
  “Everyone in the US softly kind of supports or by choice is participating in eugenicism... That’s uncomfortable.”
• Saagar [67:23]:
  “An embryo is not the same as a baby... But I also can't say that the embryo is nothing... Especially when you think about... this woman's mother who she's saying, I wish we had had the tech to destroy that embryo so we don't have to suffer. And it's like, Jesus Christ.”
• Krystal [69:23]:
  “There is something magical about like, you don’t even know. I didn’t know her. I didn’t know what she was until the day she was born. I loved it.”

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5. Open Debate: Immigration, Genes, and Culture

Scattered, related to the eugenics discussion (60:31+)

• Krystal distinguishes genetic from cultural explanations of immigrant outcomes (Nigeria, Haiti), advocating a more selective system—raising challenging questions about assimilation and American identity.
• Saagar counters with historical climbing of immigrant populations regardless of starting skill—emphasizing opportunity and societal investment over genetic or even cultural “superiority.”

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Anti-Establishment Media Necessary: Krystal and Saagar reiterate how important independent, donor-unfettered journalism is for holding powerful interests and narratives to account.
• Window of Public Discourse in Flux: More public figures and journalists, like Megyn Kelly, are feeling emboldened to question pro-Israel orthodoxy, but institutional pressures remain intense.
• Elite Power Circuits Remain Tightly Knit: Connections (legal, political, prosecutorial) play a central role in outcomes for the powerful—as seen with the Alexandrovich case.
• Generational Politics & Taxation: Battles over property taxes illuminate deeper generational and class divides, with most reforms further enriching the already privileged.
• Bioethics at the Crossroads: The rise of embryo selection and “designer babies” is not a sci-fi concern but a real ethical crisis, with clear links to historical eugenics and new forms of social stratification.

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Timestamps:

• Megyn Kelly and Israel pressure: 02:08–09:39
• Israeli official scandal & media blackout: 14:39–26:18
• Property tax abolition debate: 28:59–45:02
• Eugenics, tech elites, and bioethics: 45:32–71:11

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This episode is rich with pointed analysis, historical context, and moral inquiry, staying true to Breaking Points' mission—fearlessly challenging the powerful and asking difficult questions ignored by the mainstream.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Good morning, welcome to today.

[Today Show Announcer]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

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Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Krystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Krystal Ball]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] let's get to it. Megyn Kelly had on MTG for a far ranging discussion on Israel. MTG reiterated that she thought it was a genocide, but what I thought was the most interesting was Megyn Kelly obviously becoming very uncomfortable with the increasing amount of reach out to her from the pro Israel groups who are desperate to get her to the state of Israel on one of these propaganda trips. Here's what she had to say.

[Megyn Kelly]

I have absolutely no skin whatsoever in defending any lobbyist group, including aipac.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

So I would love to know what they do to get the loyalty of politicians because I will say I have had multiple, multiple reach outs to me, both from friends and from connected people in D.C. begging me to go to Israel with them. And I have said no every time. I usually I'm just too busy. I have three kids, I have a full time job.

[Krystal Ball]

Sure.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm not doing it, but lately it seems like it's coming to be even more. Because I feel like there's a contingent of people who are worried that they're losing me. And I've said that you're not losing. I'm not on Hamas's side.

[Saagar Enjeti]

No. God, no.

[Megyn Kelly]

Nobody's on Hamas side. But I. It's been a while now that this has been going on.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

And we're getting more involved with the Iranian bombing and so on.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Sure.

[Megyn Kelly]

And my own feelings are, you know.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I'm just, I'm looking at Israel in.

[Megyn Kelly]

A different way right now than I was on 10 8, that's for sure of 23.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I can feel the pressure being slightly ratcheted up, like you're not allowed to. You're not allowed to. And I can see people like you, like Tucker, who. I know, I know Tucker. I've known him for years and I've seen you in your early career. I know you have nothing against Israel.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, gosh, no. They.

[Megyn Kelly]

Never mind Jews. That's all a lie.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But. Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I see the beatdowns coming. You're not allowed, like, you're. You have to stay right on this lily pad.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

And you cannot jump to another neighboring lily pad because it could take you.

[Saagar Enjeti]

All the way down the river away.

[Krystal Ball]

Mmm. Interesting. I mean, I think that is so. By the way, that has happened to me not recently, but in the beginning days. Remember actually when that group invited me to go to Israel to view some 107 propaganda.

[Noor Siddiqui]

Oh, yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I don't know if I've told this story in the show, but when I first started at msnbc, lo and behold, who reaches out? Aipac. You want to go to Israel? Yeah, I mean, they, you know, they. Jamaal Bowman talked about how he didn't want to meet with them because he knew what was what. And they went through this like respected black men's organization in New York to basically trick him or strong arm him into meeting with them.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And I mean, yeah, that's what they do.

[Krystal Ball]

That's what they do.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, you gotta respect the game. In some ways, they are aggressive about cultivating anyone and everyone. And that's part of why they have had such a lock on D.C. both parties for so many years. But you know, the interesting thing to me about Megan is Listen. Meghan shifts depending on the vibe. Let's be honest.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's all be.

[Saagar Enjeti]

When it looks, you know, in 2016, when it looked like Trump was going down in flames, she's very anti Trump. Right. She gets kicked down at Fox.

[Krystal Ball]

Can I just say it was so funny during the podcast where she's like, yeah, the media was saying all this stuff about Trump in 2016. I was like, the media, huh? I was like, some of us remember the first debate.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. I'm just saying, was it about her that Trump said the like blood coming out her eyes and her everywhere Trump lore.

[Krystal Ball]

The very first question of the very first debate, the rosie. OK, Mr. Trump, you've called women pigs. You know exactly. From Meghan. And he's like, only Rosie Oda and American politics change forever.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. So she was like anti Trump then. And then she kind of flirted with it. And then she realized that if you're gonna be anyone in the Republican Party, you gotta be pro. Trump even like called her out for it. Remember? He was like, she protested, she likes me now.

[Krystal Ball]

She didn't like me.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. She puts her career is based on pretending anyway. It's all just to say that she's looking where the winds are blowing.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And the winds are blowing and anti Israel direction right now. And so you see her repositioning and that's, you know, I found it interesting when Piers Morgan did it because he also is another one that, you know, is noting. He's, look, he's a tabloid guy. He's got his sense of like where the public is and where they're shifting to, et cetera. I thought he was a noteworthy one. Certainly. I mean, the public Israel is only supported basically by older Republicans at this point.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, that's right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The Republican Party overall is the most pro Israel, no doubt. They've lost independents, they completely lost Democrats. It's basically only support in the Republican Party. But even there, especially if you're in a podcast space online, you're going to have a hard time if you are.

[Krystal Ball]

Lockstep with that, the real reason I wanted to play that clip is because I'm going to provide people with an update on that Israeli the case of the Israeli government official caught up in the Pedo sting. People need to know this. Conservative media has not touched it once. Not one mention on Fox News. Not one mention on the Ben Shapiro show or anyone over at the Daily Wire. Not one single mention by anyone over at the Daily Wire. Let's make clear. Yeah, a lot. Look, a lot of my old colleagues and friends who are working in the industrial complex have written zero stories, done zero reporting. Now, look, I should try to toot my own horn and be like, oh, it was a masterful work of journalism to get my scoop. It wasn't. Okay, here's the truth. I just did the basic legwork. It took me a long time. I had to get on the phone, email some people, you know, whatever, and eventually convince the source to provide me with documents. It's not that hard. Anybody at the New York Times or the Daily Wire or at Fox News, Fox News could have had it way before me. You know why? They have somebody who works for them in Vegas. All they would have had to do is drive over to the courthouse and talk to somebody in person. If I'd lived in Vegas, I could have had that story in 30 minutes. It's only because I'm, you know, 2,000 miles away or whatever. So just so everybody understands that is the purpose of the donor control over the conservative media industrial complex. Now, what I think Meghan is. Because at the end of the day, Meghan is independent. She finances, I believe, entirely by herself. I mean, she's very rich, obviously from her own past career in cable news. She's probably looking at that. And also uncomfort of man, I'm getting a. And she even said this. The more that you tell me I can't say something, I'm going to look into it. And that has happened more and more and more. And increasingly you're watching the world shrink for the pro Israel side, where, yes, they still have quite a lot of control over the media, but with social media, with YouTube, with everything else, their ability to control that narrative is just falling apart. So I do think it's important for her to say what she said. I will also say the amount of pushback, unbelievable. Everyone's already like, she's going down the Tucker Carlson path. She had a platform. Yeah, Tucker Carlson mtg, the idiot braindead. MTG is coming, you know, coming on with her nonsense. And already it's like the Concern trolling. If you go on Twitter and you look at her replies, oh my God, like, to that episode with mtg, it's a full blown panic for her, just having her on and even saying the things that she just did. So she's still on the team for now because she's still blaming Hamas for starvation, et cetera. But I wouldn't be surprised six months from now if we see something different.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The other thing is the, you know, the, the APAC types, they. You can't diverge even. I mean, that's actually what I was saying. You can't diverge an inch. So once you do, once you're off the island, then it's like, oh, okay, well, that you can say whatever you want because you're already dead to them effectively. Which I don't know why so many Democratic politicians in particular don't realize that there's no middle ground on this. There's no middle ground on a genocide. There's no middle ground on these horrors. Like you're in or you're out. You're in favor of babies being bombed or you're not. The MTG had a very interesting and I thought quite extraordinary post the other day talking about there were two, you know, two important decisions made by this administration with regard to children recently. One was to block Palestinian children who have their arms and legs blown off by frequently our bombs from coming and seeking medical care. And another one that allowed this alleged Israeli pedophile to fly home and, you know, potentially escape justice. So she was calling that out directly. I also think there's some of what's going on here too is among MTG and others is a recognition that the Trump era is not gonna last forever, that he at some point is going to be out of public life, departed in one way or another. And some positioning for what that is gonna look like afterwards I think is part of what is going on here as well. But on the betrayal of the idea of America first, we could put D3 up on the screen here. This is the latest that we've got of people's social media is going to be screened for anti Semitic, quote, unquote, anti Semitic activity. So this is part of the crackdown is you're going to, if you want to come to this country at all, then you have to make sure that you have all the right views on Israel or else you're going to be blocked. So there you go.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep. It's very important for people to see what's going on. And I do think that her comments though are a harbinger of the Overton window is slowly breaking open and the more people see like Israel first amongst a lot of the conservative like intelligentsia and specifically a lot of the media class, I think that they will continue to lose credibility. It's a long game, don't get me wrong, it's not going to change immediately.

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[Saagar Enjeti]

CBS this Labor Day.

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[Saagar Enjeti]

Good Morning, welcome to Today.

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From back to school to tackling your to do list. The Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season. And every morning we're here to help you take it all along. As the forecast calls for football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts, and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it. And the best way to start is together.

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Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, let's talk about this new update, shall we, on this Mr. Tom Alexandrovich. So I wanted to provide everybody a fulsome update. As I have said earlier, at the top Las Vegas, you guys are like a mafia state. The blackout that I have now gotten from people who I originally could get on the phone is extraordinary. And the reason why is the word has come on down from the top. Everybody shut up about this case. And in particular, it shows from the lawyer that Tom Alexandrivich has hired. So let's go and put this up there on the screen. The Las Vegas Review Journal, who's owned by who? Who? Right. That would be Adelson, Miriam Adelson.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, forgot about that. The Las Vegas Review Journal has now confirmed that the Israeli official, Tom Alexandrovich, who was caught up in that child sexting, has now hired the celebrity attorney David Chesnov and Richard Schonfeld. David Chestnoff is the most powerful lawyer in the entire state of Nevada. Very recently, he, along with 22 others, including Mark Levin, were appointed by Donald Trump to the Homeland Security Advisory Committee. Okay. Just to show you how powerful this current individual is. And lo and behold, it will shock you, absolutely shock you to learn that he is a very pro Israel lawyer who is the most powerful one in the state of Nevada. Let's go to the next one, please. He actually did an entire article with the Las Vegas Review Journal back in November of 2023 where he went to Israel to viol volunteer in a hospital. He claimed that he had spent a lot of time there over the years. He's now been awarded actually with several awards pertaining to the state of Israel and for a lot of his support. Which brings me actually to the next one. So let's go and put that one up on the screen. So this is fascinating. I'm becoming very familiarized with the state. Back in 2021, it was actually kind of a scandal in Vegas because David Chesnov, the lawyer now for Tom Alexandrovich, donated $30,000 to the Clark County DA Steve Wolfson. Steve Wolfson is the person who is in charge of prosecuting Mr. Alexandrovich. Now, people need to understand that this famous defense lawyer donates 30K to the Clark County DA, Stephen Wolfson. Now, we are currently in a situation which they called Pay to Play justice in the scandal there at the time, where Mr. Chesnov is now representing Tom Alexandrovich in the very case that D.A. wolfson is prosecuting this Israeli government official. I will continue to note that Wolfson has only given one interview on the case of Alexanderich. He said that he was treated completely normally, but he floated a probation as a potential option. So everybody understands here he's potentially already floating the idea that Alexandrovich can walk scot free and he can just get probation. He also said currently that he doesn't have any concerns about Alexandrovich's return, but he's like, we have extradition treaties there that are available. Well, I looked into it because that's what I do. Let's go and put D7, please, up here on the screen. And I actually did some research. I go, okay. When is the last time Israel returned a charged American pedophile? Well, the most recent is just From October of 2023, when a guy named Gershon Krantzer, who was charged with multiple crimes against children in 2010, fled to Israel. It took 11 years to return him to the United States. Why? Because he took advantage of Aliya, the right to return, which we talked about earlier in the show. The Israeli legal system and specifically the extradition treaty with the United States has multiple loopholes for any Israeli citizen who is facing extradition. In fact, this became a Crisis back in 1999 because actually locally here, Crystal, a 17 year old murdered. Another 17 year old butchered his body and set him on fire. His father was Israeli and he's like, look, Israel's got no extradition. We're going. And so he fled to Israel. What ended up happening is that the Israelis, after massive diplomatic pressure happened. They said, okay, okay. Our Supreme Court won't allow him to be extradited, so we'll try him for the crime in Israel and he can serve his prison sentence there. That leads to a 2005 extradition protocol. That protocol though, has massive amounts of holes in it, which basically the Israeli legal system is rigged, I guess, if all should be for the ability for their citizens to not face extradition. So the current problem is, is this guy ever coming back? He has no incentive to, as I just showed you, you can fight your case for 11 years and still Barely face return. This is very, very difficult. There's already statute of limitations problems from a guy, a rabbi, who was charged in the 1980s. He still is living with impunity in the state of Israel, never came back because the Israeli Supreme Court was like, oh, it's the statute of limitations. But it's the only statute of limitations because he fled. Right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So he was able, he was able to run out.

[Krystal Ball]

He still lives there, totally out in the open with impunity. I mean, a horrific pedophile. And so every, every ounce of research I have seen here is that this guy who worked for the government and if he wants to, basically, if Trump doesn't put any serious pressure on the government, we will never see him again. Because think about it, the prison sentence for this charge is 1 to 10 years and the DA is already floating probation. You're gonna fight a guy for 11 years for extradition to come back and serve. I think we should, to be clear, just to set an example for all of our diplomats. But the road is set to the sweetheart deal of all time. And so I'm just laying the groundwork for the powers that be, they are out in full force to protect this guy from Chesnov to Adelson to the government. I mean, it's all out there.

[Saagar Enjeti]

There've been a lot of focus on this U.S. attorney Trump appointed who talk. She's very. Yes, she's also very pro Israel. Wasn't she born in Israel? What's.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Anyway, she's very committed Zionist and she, I know, deleted her account on Twitter, I believe after she came under scrutiny for potential involvement in this. What can we say about her? Is the scrutiny on her?

[Krystal Ball]

It's kind of complicated. So she. Okay, so here's the thing. She is an Israeli born American by her own definition. She has multiple previous posts on her personal Twitter account where she had basically said, I'm very pro Israel, et cetera. The thing is, is that cheering for the destruction of Gaza, destruction of Gaza, et cetera. Right. So she's now the acting U.S. attorney for the state of Nevada. Now, the thing is what makes it sketchy and I have yet to uncover any evidence that the feds actually did intervene. But the facts make it. It's pretty difficult to explain that the federal agents, FBI and HSI agents who were the first people to question Alexandrovich did not give a heads up to the U.S. attorney's office. The U.S. attorney's office has not answered any questions about the. Zero questions about this. They put all the blame on the judge. And by the way, they got all their facts completely incorrect because Alexandrovich never stood before a Nevada state judge, that he actually took advantage of a BLM style law from 2020 which allows criminals to just post bail and go scot free if they want to before any probable cause hearing before a judge. So the difficulty, like right now, I think is that there's all of this smoke. The fire has not been able to be proved, but the smoke that currently exists in Nevada is that they have a powerful attorney. He's represented like Bruno Mars, you know, I mean, like seriously, very like very, very rich Paris Hilton, you know, those types of people. TMZ's probably got this guy on speed dial, like a lawyer to the stars, like one of the classic people, kind of like the OJ Thing. Here's a question. Who's paying him? I mean, that's an open one. Who is paying your legal fee? Is it Alexandrovich who's worked on an Israeli government salary? Is it the government? Is it a rich benefactor? I've been trying to figure out who posted his bail. From what I've been able to find out, no bail bondsman company actually bailed him out. Somebody did post bail. We know that it wasn't him based on something called a surety bond. So the question is, who posted his bail? Again, total blackout from Henderson City. So there's still a lot of very sketchy stuff here. I personally think what's going to happen, he's going to get probation and he's going to walk. And the question will be, is he gonna get special treatment? Compared to the seven others who are caught up in the sting.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

All of whom who have been charged, this man remains uncharged by the state of Nevada. He's the only individual caught in the sting who hasn't yet been charged. I've been checking every day and I.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Think it's just worth reminding people that this isn't just like some random Israeli. He is a high level official, you know, close to the Netanyahu's, et cetera.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So you know, this isn't just some rando. This is. What's his official title? He's like in charge of Cyber Directorate. Yeah, Cyber Director.

[Krystal Ball]

By the way, immediately after my phone lockdown mode, I was like, I'm not taking any risk.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, intelligent, very intelligent. I will say, the uncovering and the reporting of this story, which initially surfaced for me at least from Mel, she's village crazy lady on Twitter. And then your sleuthing, it has restored some of my faith in quote unquote, independent media. Because we would never know if it wasn't for independent journalists. We would never know anything about this whatsoever.

[Krystal Ball]

No, it's true.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Him just like hurrying up and leaving to Israel. That would have been the end of the story. And you know, there would have been like a little local crime news story in Nevada that no one would have picked up on. Certainly the mainstream press wasn't gonna dig in.

[Krystal Ball]

This is my beef, no offense, Nevada local journalists, but like they don't understand the political implications. So for them, they report it like any other crime story. They're like, he lured a child to Cirque du Sole, you know what I'm saying? Like they do the details, the FBI, NSA thing, they have the same docs that I do. Cause they've got sources. They didn't report any of that, you know, and I read all of their stories and then they just print whatever the lawyer says with no comment. They don't note any of the stuff that I just did. Same thing with the da. They don't ask him any follow up. They're like, hey, what about the extradition treaty? Have you demanded his appearance in court? Nothing. Like it's one of those where, I mean, I almost don't blame them because you know, they're not following international politics. They're like crime beat reporters most likely.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Or they work for the Adoles or.

[Krystal Ball]

They work, in some cases literally work for the Adels. But I mean, no, but there's a local TV guy who I've been following, he's been reporting or whatever on the case. But it's more so that I just think they're not familiar with how much of a scandal it is nationally. But this is why national media and others, they could cover this story easily if they wanted [e-mail] email could solve this in a day because they could use their Washington bureau, their FBI reporters and get somebody on the ground in Vegas. You could read a 2000 word article exposing all of this. They won't touch it. And I think the reason why is cause it's about conspiracy, right? Like it's distasteful and it would feed far right fantasies. And it's like, guys, we're dealing purely in the realm of facts. Caught in a sting back in Israel, remains the only one uncharged. Hired the most powerful lawyer in the state of Nevada. Do I need to spell it out for you?

[Saagar Enjeti]

The one mainstream story I saw about it was Axios, but they wrote it up like MAGA react and it's like, I mean first of all, it's certainly not just maga, right? And second of all, why not talk about the story itself rather than doing the meta story about like, oh, this group of people is reacting in this way. So yeah, that was the only mainstream coverage that I've seen at this point.

[Krystal Ball]

I know it's crazy. It is absolutely crazy. So anyway, that's your update. I will continue on it. And if you are in Vegas and if you have something, reach out. I would love to talk to you.

[iHeart Big Three Basketball Announcer]

The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, iHeart presents the Big 3 Basketball Championship Championship and 8th Annual Big 3 All Star Game this coming Sunday, August 24th. Live from Orlando. The remaining two teams fight it out for the Big 3 Championship Dr. J Trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. Don't miss the wild conclusion of Big Three's eighth and most historic season ever. This is the game no one wants to lose and there's no crying in the Big three. The action starts with the Big Three eighth Annual All Star Game. Don't miss All Stars Dwight Howard, Montrez Harrell, MVP Michael Beasley, Lance will make you Dan Stevenson, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nazir Kor and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Big Three's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new Big Three champion. The no holds part action starts Sunday at 2pm Eastern, 11 Pacific only on.

[Saagar Enjeti]

CBS this Labor Day.

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[Saagar Enjeti]

Good morning.

[Megyn Kelly]

Welcome to today.

[Today Show Announcer]

From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season, and every morning we're here to help you take it all on as the forecast calls for football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it, and the best way to start is together.

[Today Show Announcer]

Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, let's get to property taxes. Okay, now here's a little pet issue of mine, which I said. I wish I had the time to write this up into a monologue, but I'm gonna do my best. There is a growing effort on the right to, quote, abolish property taxes. I wanna say at the top, I sympathize. Everybody hates property taxes. Here in the state of Virginia, actually, where I live, they even tax your car. You know, every year you have to pay your annual car tax. And it's one of the most unpopular things that people ever have to deal with. But I want to really dig into this and tell people why. It is actually a massive giveaway to the old and if anything, it needs to be reversed. So let's put this up there on the screen from Marjorie Taylor Greene. She says recently, quote, hi, we need to completely abolish property tax. It forces us to, quote, pay rent to the government on property that we own. But if we don't pay property tax, the property that we own gets taken away. That should never happen in a free country. She says, secondly, health insurance is a giant scam. I agree, but let's stick with the property tax thing because this is actually becoming policy. Let's put the next one, please, on the screen. Ron DeSantis is now proposing no property taxes in the state of Florida. And actually, it's Florida, Ohio and many other Republican states that want to eliminate property tax. Vivek Ramaswamy has apparently said something similar. The more I looked into this, again, emotionally, I actually do understand. Everybody hates property tax. It's one of the things that included in your mortgage, even if you finally pay off your house, you have to continue to do it. The more I actually started to look into it, not only in what it funds, but the way that seniors are the ones who are the most beneficial or the most benefit not only of the property Tax themselves, which is paid for services, but get exemptions. I was like, wait, no, this is a massive giveaway to the old and it's an inversion of how policy should be. So let me put this up on the screen and then we can talk is I did a lot of this research. This was chatgpt, thankfully. And I was like, huh, how much property tax exemption already exists for old people? So in Florida, you get this thing called the homestead deduction that's for everybody. It's for your primary residence, which is off of your assessed value. But seniors who are 65 plus and lower income, by the way, that low income is a very different definition than what I would think of low income. You get an additional $50,000 exemption. In Texas, you get something called the regular school tax exemption. And then for seniors, you get an extra $10,000 off of school district taxes. Plus school taxes are frozen at the age of 65. The theory basically for property tax and the anti property tax movement for a lot of old people is, hey, we're older, our kids are grown, so why should we have to pay for schools? I think this is preposterous. Because I could get. I have to. I'm forced to pay Social Security and Medicare like everybody else with fica. I could get hit by a bus on the day I turned 64 and 364 days and get no Social Security. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't have to pay it for my entire life.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

So their theory is that we have to pay for their retirement, which by the way is pegged to inflation. But they get property tax, school tax frozen, and now they want to eliminate it entirely, which are city services, which again, who's calling 911 for an ambulance all the time? It's old people, okay? And these people want to opt out of that and shift the tax burden to the consumption of sales tax, which would actually be a massive giveaway to them, not even worse. Let me just continue. The rant is it would mean that their primary residents, they have no incentive to sell, which actually locks them even more so into housing stock giant McMansions, which for two people, which in my opinion rightfully should go to people with younger houses. Now, I'm not saying they should be forced to sell, but to say that, well, maybe I am, but it's like, I'm not saying there's time to move on, grandma. I'm not saying that we should be forced to sell, wink, wink. But the idea that you should be that the government should provide you Massive amounts of services free and retirement free health care under Medicare. But you don't have to pay for my kids school taxes. Get out of here. And now you actually want to shift the local burden more so to the consumers rather than the elderly people who again get inflation pegged, free money from the government, and now under the big beautiful bill, you get a tax free income for 88%. I just think it's one of those where it's a total abdication by the boomer generation. They're like, oh, we're done with the school so we don't have to pay for them. Well, you know what, if I'm done with you, why do I have to pay for your health care? You know, 1% of all federal spending is on boomer dialysis. I'm not joking. 1% of the entire federal budget is on dialysis for obese boomers with kidney disease. It's one of those where. And listen, I'm pro Medicare. If anything, you know, we should go after the healthcare companies that jack up that spending. I'm not saying we should take it away from you, but you can't abdicate your responsibility to the younger generation. And that's what all of us is. It's like we literally have a socialist system right now. Now for boomers, the more I'm looking into this property tax thing, I did not realize it's a massive giveaway to the elderly and it shifts the entire tax burden on people who are younger, can't afford the homes, being frozen out of the housing stock and are making it so that they have to have sole responsibility for their lives and for the city services of them. On top of paying for the quasi socialist system of retirement that we have for everybody. 65 plus.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, the school thing is just like, do you live in a society?

[Krystal Ball]

Thank you.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I know, it's crazy. I mean, it'd be the same thing if I was like, well, my neighborhood is safe so I don't wanna pay for the cops. Exactly. It's just like, okay, we live in a society, we all live here together. There are certain things that are valuable to us. For example, the education of the children. Right. For example. Like, you know, we could do a lot better about everybody being able to have healthcare, et cetera. You know, I think you have to ask, okay, there are a certain set of services that people expect and need the state to provide. So there's going to have to be revenue raised somewhere. So if it's not property taxes, what is it likely to be? And that's where you. Yeah, where you.

[Krystal Ball]

Which is what? Massively regressive.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Massively regressive. So even taking like the age part out of this, our society, increasingly the structure of our society in terms of haves and have nots, and there is a deep generational component to this that is for sure is between those who own their homes and those who rent. And if you own a home, you're much more likely to have sort of stable life. You're much more likely to have some sort of wealth that you've accumulated. You're building value over all these years. You already get big tax breaks from the federal government in terms of mortgage interest deductions. It's a major dividing line.

[Krystal Ball]

And the capital gains after you sell.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's exactly right. So you get significant breaks. There's significant built in advantages to being a homeowner already in our system. So what you're talking about is another tax break for homeowners who are much more likely to be affluent than people who are renters. So if you were going to instead fund things with a actually progressive income tax code, okay, then we could talk then I'd be open to it. But that's not the direction that they're pushing in. They're pushing, okay, we're going to do sales tax and sales. Why is sales tax deeply regressive? It's because the poorer you are, the more of your income you're spending on consumption because your back's against the wall, your paycheck to paycheck. So basically everything that comes in is going out in expenditures. So as a percent of your income, you're going to be taxed much, much more. So yeah, it's.

[Krystal Ball]

The thing is, it's not just a red stake. And by the way, you wouldn't believe the boomer rage I've got for talking about this, but the more I look into it, the amount of breaks these people get is unbelievable. I talked to a state legislator who got mad at me. He's from New Hampshire. He's like, what are you talking about, idiot? Nobody freezes property taxes for people in New Hampshire. Took a simple Google search to find out that 13 of the largest cities in the state of New Hampshire, 203 localities, all provide something called an elderly exemption for property tax. The theory behind it is that these people are on fixed income and that they don't use the school, so therefore they deserve the break. Again, that is the same argument that the school voucher people make about their property taxes or private schoolers who are like, oh, but I Send my kid to private school. Why should I have to pay into the system? Or oh well, I don't use that much trash. Why should I have? It's like this, you know, it's almost like a libertarian mindset. But it's only libertarian and they only opt out. Exists is for the elderly. Now let's compare US socialism for 65 plus to 0 to 5. That's where my baby is right now. What is she getting from the federal government? Zero. Nothing. I get a measly tax deduction. What else? Pre K when they turn like four or something like that in between, good luck, hope you make decent money.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And if you're Zoran and you propose free childcare, people are gonna say you're a. Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

While they again get free health care. They get completely free healthcare. Now a sane society would say that if you have to choose between them, in my opinion, 0 to 5 is way more important, especially than 65 plus in a country where people live until 83 years old. So now I'm not saying throw everybody out on their street, but for all of those folks, if you guys are gonna get your free healthcare, don't be coming around saying I don't have to pay any property tax cause I've already paid it and I don't use the schools. Again, we all have to pay for your retirement. And if you really want to get technical on an accounting basis, the average senior who retires at age 65 in the year 2020 paid 600,000 into the system. You get 1.2 million in benefits over the course of your life, double literally what you ever paid into the system. So the idea that you know you've paid for everything you get. No, it's false. Now I'm not saying we should bankrupt you or take a lot of the stuff away. I'm in favor of reducing the massive amount of cost in the healthcare system. But the current way that it's structured is everything is about tax breaks for the people who are already homeowners, which disproportionately are the elderly. Let's put E4 here up on the screen because this is very important. If you look at the current data, home buyers over the age of 70 currently outnumber those under 35. And in particular it's for larger houses and or starter homes. So the way that the tax system is now currently, the way that the current tax system is, is that boomers are getting free Social Security, literally free. 88% of you will not pay any tax on your Social Security because of the new standard deduction, which is only for people who are over the age of 66 or whatever. By the one big beautiful bill, you get free money from the government, tax free money basically from the government. You get free health care, capital gains, no tax on your residents, which massively has boomed. You can roll that into a new house. And a lot of them are choosing to live lives of relative luxury for how they grew up. Now I don't bemoan or begrudge anybody for being able to do that. I do think there should be a reverse of the system to incentivize first time home buyers over people who are already elderly. So if I want to see tax breaks, I want to see them for the people who are under 30, not for the people who are over 70. But then you can't be buying your McMansion which in my opinion again should be probably going to somebody under the age of 35 and then not pay any property tax for it because that means you're never going to sell it. The carrying cost is way too simple for you. It's like the deal of the century that we're just handing over to all these folks. And here's the thing, you and I know it's going to pass in Florida. It's full of old people. Their entire state is subsidized by the federal government because we pay for their residents income and we pay for their health care. So now you know what they're gonna.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Do and also pay for like their homeowners.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And we pull for their homeowners. Right. And we insure all of their property, which by rights nobody should even live in because it's near the ocean and is constantly getting destroyed.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, I think there's an overlap between. So I think the proper way to look at the taxation system rather than a generational war, zero sum between what, what the elderly could get versus what young people could get is. I mean the big problem is that the wealthy pay very, very little in taxes. There's not a progressive income tax system in the way that there should be. And I'm talking nationally right now, but certainly in states like Florida that don't even have an income tax. And so, you know, what you end up with is because you had older generations who were able to acquire wealth at a time period more during the New Deal era when housing was much more, wildly more affordable, healthcare was wildly more affordable, education was wildly more affordable, college education in certain places was free at the time. So you have a wealth disparity between generations. But the big war is the class war versus the generational war. There's overlap there, but to me that's the frame to look at these things.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't disagree and politically, but no politician will ever talk the way I'm talking. Why? Because old people are the only ones who vote. But the thing is, is that it is important still to say that the middle class elderly is way better off than the middle class young person.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's just empirically true. A lot of that is homeownership and it's homeownership.

[Krystal Ball]

The tax breaks are unbelievable. Or like in California with Prop 13, the biggest load of bullshit I have ever seen, that these people who buy a house in 1976 explodes in value from 100,000 to 2.5 million living Santa Monica or whatever in Los Angeles are paying massively low property tax rate compared to somebody who has to purchase the home, let's say in 2015. I'm sorry, it's not right. And they're like, oh, but it's not fair cause I'm priced out because of the property tax you get. Listen, if you were, this is where my personal responsibility spiel, if you saved your money and you put it in the 401k like you should have, then you should have no problem being able to pay your property tax. But their argument is that again, their free inflation adjusted income should be able to sustain a mansion in Santa Monica. Preposterous. The property tax should be pegged to the accurate market value. And if you have to sell, so be it. You should have worked harder and should have saved more money. And that's just like infuriating that they continue to try and stop paying for school taxes, cap their own property taxes and make it so that they can live in housing stock, which again by any fair market should, and fair societally should be occupied by people who are younger who literally cannot get into them.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean it's basically, I think people should just think of it as a tax cut for the rich.

[Krystal Ball]

Effectively it is.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean that's disproportionately. Who's gonna benefit from it. And so if you know, my metric is just, is it a regressive or progressive tax? And if you are getting rid of property tax and shifting that burden over to an income tax, a consumption tax, I mean not an income tax, rather to a sales tax, a consumpt tax. You are giving a tax cut to the rich and you are funding it with a working class tax hike. It's true, that's what you're doing look at it through who benefits and who's going to bear the cost. I think it becomes pretty clear this is a bad deal for average people.

[Krystal Ball]

I had a senior reply and I was like, what about death taxes? You wouldn't even know anything about that. And it's like, bro, unless you're worth $34 million when you die, you're not paying an estate tax. Yeah, it's like, so actually, just tell me you're filthy rich.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, we barely even have a death.

[Krystal Ball]

That's what I'm saying.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's a death tax.

[Krystal Ball]

Ex exemption is 15 million per person, so you're worth more than $30 million.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's one of the most.

[Krystal Ball]

You think you shouldn't have to pay any taxes.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's one of the most important reasons that we've had increasing like a solidifying class structure and less and less upward mobility is the lack of an estate tax.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, it's not just. It's actually step up basis, in my opinion. That's the.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Oh, well, that. Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

That is the crime of the century. All right, I'll end it there. I know the boomers will be mad, but I'm sorry, it's like you said, we live in a society. You have to pay for us because we pay for you. Literally, that's what the money is for from the government.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And like, did you go to school at one point in your life? Did people pay taxes so that you could go to school?

[Krystal Ball]

I'm sitting here paying for your dialysis. It's infuriating. I'm sorry. All right, let's get to your monologue. What are you taking a look at?

[Saagar Enjeti]

In 1917, a new silent film was released with an extremely unsubtle plot line. The Black Stork follows a young couple who marry and have a baby in defiance of warnings from the film's hero, Dr. Dicke, that the couple will pass on the father's hereditary taint. Sure enough, when they do have a child, it is born defective in the language of the film and in need of life saving intervention, which the doctor refuses to provide. The mother, having doubts, embarks on a mental journey exploring the life that her defective baby would grow up to lead and watches as he suffers through a miserable existence, culminating in his choice to murder Dr. Dickey for the crime of letting him live. The mother then awakens from her reverie and agrees with the doctor that her child should in fact be murdered. The close of the film, we watch as Jesus receives the baby's soul. A difficult but moral and Righteous choice having been made to kill the infant rather than condemn him and his offspring and the race at large to a polluting of the blood pool. Some pretty sick shit, right? Well, pay attention because as with other ugly discredited ideologies which have bubbled back to the surface in this era, eugenics is back. The language, the tactics, the mechanics may be tailored for the modern age, but make no mistake, from Silicon Valley to D.C. to social media to pop culture, a new eugenics movement has arrived and it is every bit as morally repugnant and anti creation as the OG version. The New York Times Ross Douthat recently hosted a high flying young tech founder who has secured Peter Thiel funding to explain her company's offerings. Called Orcid. The company and its founder Noor Siddiqui promised parents the ability to design a healthy child through sophisticated embryo testing and selection tech. These couples go through a process of ivf, have each of the created embryos tested, and receive a detailed breakdown of the genetic makeup of each one of the embryos. Orcid is but one of a number of startups in the field offering the similar embryo testing services. Another teal back startup, Nucleus Genomics, specifically tests embryos for high iq, hair color, eye color, left handedness, likelihood for obesity, and a whole range of potential health outcomes. As for Orcid, it is rumored to include on its client list the richest man on the planet, Elon Musk. It is increasingly popular in Silicon Valley and according to Siddiqui, has already worked with thousands of parents. Now, I would recommend listening to this entire interview, but I was particularly struck by Siddiqui's explanation of the inspiration for her work and how it kind of eerily echoes some of the plotline of the Black Stork.

[Noor Siddiqui]

So growing up, you know, my mom got a pretty, you know, pretty devastating diagnosis. She, you know, she started by losing her night vision, then she lost her peripheral vision, and then slowly she started losing her central vision. So she ended up getting diagnosed with a condition called retinitis pigmentosa. So what that means is that you sort of progressively go blind. And it was a pretty long odyssey to actually get that diagnosis. And then there was a lot of fear around, okay, is that going to affect, you know, her siblings, my aunts and uncles? Is it going to affect us or children? And you know, really kind of what? I was obviously very young when a lot of this was happening.

[Krystal Ball]

How old, how old was she when this sort of manifested itself?

[Noor Siddiqui]

So I think the first symptoms that I think she had admitted to, at least you Know, my dad were probably in her early 30s, and I think, think maybe in her mid-30s is when he pushed her enough to be like, hey, I think this is something that you should really be looking into. And I think that really what sat with me and what I fell through, that experience was just this sort of profound unfairness, right? This idea that there's this genetic lottery that's unfolding and some people win and some people lose and through no fault of their own. Someone who I love bitterly isn't going to be able to enjoy the things like being able to see her grandkids and just things that I think you and I take for granted that, hey, we're going to be able to see into old age.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So just to be really clear here, if Siddiqui's grandparents had been able to avail themselves of Orchid's technology, they would have been able to select from a range of embryos of varying characteristics and likely would have discarded the one with the genetic marker for this adult onset blindness. In other words, the embryo which would have grown to be Siddiqui's mom would have been destroyed after having been labeled defective. Reminiscent of the doctor in Black Stork, Siddiqui presents this as a moral choice that would have saved her mother and their family from the pain of grappling with her blindness and the possibility that future generations may also inherit this condition.

[Krystal Ball]

If I took the trays of embryos that contain you and your husband's embryonic children and I threw them in the river, what kind of crime have I committed? Have I committed a property crime? Like, should I pay a fine? Like, what have I done?

[Noor Siddiqui]

I think that the question of, okay, an embryo that is going to get adult onset blindness, what do I think about that embryo? My mom doesn't want to be blind. She doesn't want me to be blind. She doesn't want her grandkids to be blind. So I think that it is a positive moral choice. It is the responsible decision as a parent to. To detect that risk at the earliest possible stage and to, you know, transfer the embryo that has the best probability of a healthy life. I don't think that there's any moral question there. I think almost the opposite. I think that creating stigma or creating some sort of taboo around the idea that parents would want to proactively get that information is a dangerous idea to propagate.

[Saagar Enjeti]

No moral question and a dangerous idea to propagate. Pretty interesting. Of course, selecting to guard against a medical condition, that's one thing. Custom designing a super race is quite Another. Any guess what trait Silicon Valley types are most interested in selecting for? According the Wall Street Journal, tech executives are shelling out big bucks for designer high IQ babies. Their article titled Inside Silicon Valley's Growing Obsession with having Smarter Babies details the way that tech executives are increasing increasingly spending tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to avail themselves of orchid type tech in an effort to guarantee high IQ offspring. Some are also spending hundreds of thousands on high end matchmakers who can pair them with high achieving Ivy League mates in hopes of passing on these intellectual genetic blessings. A statistical geneticist from Harvard Medical School explained to the Wall Street Journal this fascination with what is being styled genetic optimization. Let's go ahead and put this quote up on the screen. They say I think they have a perception that they are smart and they are accomplished and they deserve to be where they are because they have quote, good genes. Now they have a tool where they think that they can do the same thing in their kids as well. Right now, if that is not the definition of a eugenics mindset, I don't know what is. Specifically the ideology that some genes are good and some genes are bad, therefore some people are innately superior and deserving of certain privileges vis a vis their genetically inferior brethren. This type of thinking is currently coursing through body politic right now in a variety of forms. Now the original eugenics movement combined anti immigrant fervor over fear that other races would degrade the white American WASP stock with a progressive era zest for radical reform, support for eugenic policies like forced sterilization. It was actually concentrated in the well off educated sophisticated circle, kind of like Silicon Valley. The movement itself was also fomented at a time of great change as the Industrial Revolution concentrated wealth and transformed the population from rural to urban. You can see some of these same strands coming together right now as Elon Musk and his obsession with birth rates and spreading his allegedly high IQ seed finds common cause with the racial nativist obsessives. People like Stephen Miller, who I don't have to tell you, has a lot of power. Now. When white nationalist Stephen Miller cautions against importing the third world, he is asserting that people who come from developing nations aren't poor because of their geography or because of the poverty they were born into, but because of their inherently immutably inferior genetics. When Trump warns about immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation, he's engaging in that same sort of genetic essentialism. Such views are given full throated endorsement among increasingly influential racist influencers. People like like Nick Fuentes here he is explaining to Candace Owens his view that black people are inherently genetically inferior.

[Podcast Advertiser]

So I'm trying to understand if you're actually, you think that it's all black people are like this or if your world is kind of colored by this is what's going on in America. This has failed for a thousand reason. Welfarism has definitely. I mean, Black people in 1940s stand up. My grandfather, I talk about that denigration and the corrosion of culture that's happening. White, black, whatever you want to name it, there is this intentional corrosion of culture. So do you think it's literally, well, this is just what a black person is when they come out, or do you think that post welfare, lbj, great Society, this is what black Americans have become. And I have a right to respond to that and say that as a white man, I don't want to live there.

[Nick Fuentes]

Well, you know, I think it's more nature than people would like to believe. You know, there's this classic tension of is it nature, is it nurture, is it, is it cultural or is it it intrinsic, is it racial? And I've always been on the latter side of this among conservatives. Conservatives like to say it's, it's all culture. Black America is the way it is because of hip hop music and the Great Society and that kind of stuff. And I think the uncomfortable reality is a big part of it is intrinsic. You know, one of the big arguments against the abolition of slavery in the 1860s is that, you know, when Europeans colonized Africa, they hadn't discovered the wheel. There's no two story buildings, there's no writing, there's no written language. Missionaries had to go to Africa in the last century and invent it for the African people, because they did. There's no recorded history. They didn't have writing in sub Saharan Africa and we didn't. Europeans did not penetrate that until late 19th century. They didn't have any of this. To the extent that you have infrastructure in Africa, it's from the Muslims in the Sahel and the Maghreb in northern Africa where the Arabs colonized. And then you had, you know, Carthage and Egypt, you had ancient civilizations, but sub Saharan Africa, they didn't have that. You take these people out of the that land and put them here and they're enslaved people. You let them free in a modern liberal republic, they're not going to succeed. It's not going to go well for them. And that was one of the arguments against abolition. People said if you free them without Any assimilation, without any kind of process for them to be acclimated, they're gonna die. And that's exactly what happened. Many of, like the. The bottom 10% of like the lowest IQ Africans just died off for generations. And it had a, you know, pardon the expression, but it had a eugenic effect because over time, if.

[Krystal Ball]

If the.

[Nick Fuentes]

If the weakest are dying off, that's one argument for why blacks in America have a standard deviation higher IQ than the blacks in Sub Saharan Africa.

[Saagar Enjeti]

All right, let me spend a little bit of time on that, because that is all utter and complete garbage. So the data over time actually tells IQ scores consistently close in the gap with those of whites in America. This would not be possible if black people are just inherently immutably inferior forever and always. Data also shows an exceptional record of achievement among black immigrants from Sub Saharan Africa and Africa in general. Specifically, Nigerian immigrants as a population have the highest college attainment of any ethnic subgroup in the entire country, not to mention to flatten all of Africa or even all of Sub Saharan Africa into a single race. Race is in and of itself, complete and utter nonsense. Africa is the single most genetically diverse continent on the planet. Now, I'm not saying nature is irrelevant when it comes to characteristics like iq, but Fuentes seems to dismiss nurture altogether. Maybe the clearest example to debunk this nonsense comes from countries like South Korea, which experienced rapid economic development, lifting much of their population out of poverty. Lo and behold, average IQ in South Korea went from below 90 to above 105 in just two generations. An impossibility if IQ was primarily genetically determined and immutable. Asians in general, let's keep in mind, were once stereotyped as inherently unintelligent. Now they're kicking white people's asses so hard in college admissions that we have to rig the selection process just to keep some white diversity on elite college campuses. Not to mention, I hate to break it to these people, some of the most dysfunctional morons I have ever met are high iq. This somewhat bullshit indicator is famously piss poor at actually predicting life success. However, as we barrel towards an AI future where jobs are scarce, wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few trillionaires, and the stakes of making it into the global elite may be the difference between unending wealth and unending misery. It's not hard to see where all of this could ultimately lead us. Obviously, we already see a crackdown on immigration, which is often overtly sold in the name of racial purity. It's the exact same dynamic that we saw in the run up to the passage of the Immigration act of 1924, which was explicitly crafted by eugenicists based on their junk science of which races were more or less inferior. This time around, I don't think we're likely to get forced sterilization laws, at least I don't think so, to block the quote unquote defective from procreating. Instead, the modern version is going to be driven by the logic of the market, an arms race by those with the means to secure their chances spot in the elite class that can pay to insulate themselves from the ravages of wars, climate crisis and whatever AI has in store for all of us. If Black Stork, that film I started with served as pro eugenics propaganda, the 1997 film Gattaca provides the high tech eugenics cautionary tale that rings far too true given the innovations of companies like Orchid. In Gattaca, genetic perfectionism and discrimination leads to an impossibly rigid and dystopian class structure where those children who were born via the genetic privilege of Orchid, like tech, lord over the poor untouchables who were birthed the old fashioned way with all of the genetic risk that that mode entails. Orchid's founder in that interview with Ross, if you watch all of it, she talks about freedom, she talks about choice, she talks about quote unquote genetic privilege. She uses the language of progressivists to push a vision of the world in which we are all flattened into good genes and bad genes defective and perfected and humans are handed one more way to divide each other up into worthy and unworthy. Then again, maybe the joke will be on all the IQ obsessed elite after AI takes over the intellectual jobs and all of us over educated smarty pants types are left wishing we'd learned how to be a plumber. Saru, I'm curious for your thoughts on. You watched the whole interview, right?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, yeah I did. I agree with you there. But I actually do think you kind of proved the conservative point cuz the Nigeria thing is this is our huge debate about immigration. We had it yesterday. Do you know who the vast majority of Nigerian immigrants are? They're called Igbo Nigerian and who they are is one of the tribes in Nigeria that has long held success and prioritized education. If all Nigerians came, it's not that they're all stupid, it's not intrinsically genetic. But that's the point that culture does matter. Part of the reason that I emphasize.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So you're making the Candace point.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I am.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's culture. Yeah, not the Fuentes point.

[Krystal Ball]

No, no, no.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That they're just inherently bad.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm backing you up on your Nigeria point. But what I am saying though is that is a lot of my immigration. Like my immigration objection is that the vast majority of people coming here illegally and who, you know, people like you want to legalize are low skilled people who barely speak English and are barely literate in their own language.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But we've seen and are gonna have a lot of struggle if you look at the history of immigration from all sorts of countries, regardless of what skill level they are at when they're coming. I don't doubt that that's the case for Nigerians. Why you have high attainment. I mean, you also see that come Indian immigrants are disproportionately the Brahmin class. They're well off, et cetera. But you also see immigrant populations outperforming native populations given their socioeconomic status kind of across the board. I mean in terms of the level of entrepreneurship, in terms of things like college attainment, in terms of even lower crime levels, et cetera.

[Krystal Ball]

But I think it's proven my point.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I don't think so, because the people.

[Krystal Ball]

You'Re talking about are not included in those statistics. Like for example, in the black population. The Haitian population of New York famously outdid many of the native black populations of the United States. They have a huge cultural difference. And look, this is actually a very conservative black talking point about Haitian and Caribbean immigrants are much more family oriented and they didn't experience the same level of destruction. And that was a huge part of the Harlem Renaissance and all this stuff going back to the 1920s. Look, I don't believe in a lot of this genetic determinism. I think cultural determinism is everything. But that's part of why I oppose low skilled immigration coming to the United States. Because they can't succeed and have not been screened for the same level of success.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's true. That they can't succeed. They do succeed. They can't succeed.

[Krystal Ball]

They can over 100 year period will.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Have to pay for over generations. I mean we already. Anyway, this wasn't supposed to be an immigration debate. I'm curious about your view on the technology.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, it's just like, oh my God, I could not oppose it more. Especially because these are the most immoral transhumanist people who don't care. It's just like the boomer mentality I was talking about. It's literally the same where it's all about Genetic determinism. As if that is going to prioritize who you become iq. Famously, Ted Kaczynski had a wonderful. Didn't he have a 160 IQ which is crazy high. Like top. You know, he's the Unabomber. Like it's. Which proves what his own mother says, that he was left as a little baby for 11 days and that he lost like any of the humanity that he ever had. Kind of proves the, you know, nurture point. Interesting as you backing you up. The highest IQ people ever met. Like really, really, really high IQ, probably like top 0.2%. Like way beyond Mensa. Freaks, weirdos, absolute like mal. Social adjusted. They did the IQ study, the Malcolm Gladwell thing, Remember where they followed the highest IQ people in the state of California and they were like, oh, these are gonna be the most. No, it didn't happen. Actually. Most of the high IQ people they did. They had a lot of trouble succeeding in life.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We talked about this when we covered the way that these personal traits are changing for younger generations and how much conscientiousness has fallen off a cliff. That's actually the trait that is most likely to predict life success.

[Krystal Ball]

I agree.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And your ability to follow through and your determination if you are committed to something. And the other IQ is kind of junk science to start with. And then the idea that you can. I need to look into it more. But some of the science that I saw too is even the way they talk about being able to genetically determine in this way without having other trade offs.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Also really seems like jug side. So for example, like you may select for high IQ that may also lead to higher risk of autism, Asperger and then these other traits that may be more important in terms of actually being able to succeed and be functional, et cetera, like you're not. But even putting all of that aside, it's extremely dystopian that. That we're pretty rapidly moving to a world where the wealthy are sort of like doing this genetic selection. And I don't think it's hard to imagine that there's almost like a new, more rigid, even more rigid class structure based on who is selected in that way and who's not. So I don't know. I see a lot of this stuff on the table now and the language that is used in some of these circles, it's not exactly the same. But if you go back and read about the eugenics movement and the way they talked about it and the way it did come from, you Know, the educated, they thought they were using science to like, better the human race. That's how they framed it. And you hear that very much echoed with Siddiqui. Now, what I will say is what challenged me in that is, obviously I'm pro choice and I support ivf. And so when Ross asked this question about, like, okay, if you discard these embryos, what have you done? Like, what kind of crime have you committed? Like, if you take them and throw.

[Krystal Ball]

Them in the river, it's very uncomfortable.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It is very uncomfortable. And when I think about, about that example of her own mother who she's saying, I wish that we'd had the text so that my own mother was never born. That's.

[Krystal Ball]

No, it's sick.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Wild.

[Krystal Ball]

Look, I have difficulty reconciling it every day. I told you. Denmark celebrates having no people with down syndrome. They're like, we've succeeded. We either eliminated Down.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's disgusting.

[Krystal Ball]

Right? Iceland, same thing. They have 2, 2, 3 down syndrome births per year. And because why? Because they openly test for it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And government policy, babies who are right.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, it's sickening. And look, everybody kind of is okay with eugenics in a way because mass societally here in the United States, look, the down syndrome abortion rate is probably what, 60 something percent. And if it's, you know, for those. I forget exactly. It's very high. I forget exactly what it is. But I'd have to look it up. But I'm trying to think, what is it? Spina diphyta. You know, some of the other tests that they have on genetic disorders, those abortion rates are like 100%, like or near the 90s. Everyone in the US softly kind of supports or by choice is participating in eugenicism. And it's like, I don't know. I think about it all the time because it's like you said, now we're making much more overt cases. Like maybe the pro lifers were right. I'm not quite there. But you have to say they do have a point. Especially when it comes to.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Here's what I have to say. An embryo is not the same as a baby. Right? And that's where the black stork in that film, it's an actual baby who's been born that the doctor's like, I'm not gonna treat. I'm gonna effectively murder this baby. That is a different moral question than discarding an embryo, right? I think most people would say that, but that's. But I also can't say that the embryo is nothing. Right? I Can't say that. It's just like, you know, throwing a piece of trash away. Right. I can't say that either. Especially when you think about, you know, when you really think about that example of like this woman's mother who she's saying like, I wish we had had the tech to destroy that embryo so we don't have to suffer. And it's like, Jesus Christ, you know this. And that's the core of a eugenic mentality is the idea that you know your worth to society or you don't have inherent humanity, inherent dignity, inherent worth. Not because of your hair color, your eye color or your IQ score, but just because you are. And I don't think you have to be religious to have that view. In fact, I have to say, you know, this is maybe far afield, but in this era, when we're watching what's unfolding in Gaza and like the genocide that's occurring there, it really has made me put just. And as we watch what's happening with AI too, just put sort of like support for humanity at the core of my politics and at the core of my values. And that's what to me is so disturbing about this mentality. And you really do see it taking hold in a way that it's like, especially at the highest heights of society where people have money and power and are represented in government, et cetera, etc.

[Krystal Ball]

I agree. And it's one of those things where I. What I enjoy the most about having a kid was the randomness. People are like, are you disappointed it wasn't a boy? Like, it's like, yes, if you have a choice, like what? But for these people, they actually would have a choice. That's weird, right? You're losing something in that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

There is something magical about like, you don't even know. I didn't know her. I didn't know what she was until the day she was born. I loved it. I thought it was great.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

And it's one of those where, you know, you just simply are. Are what you are. Also, I looked it up. The abortion rate for down syndrome is between 67 and 85% in the United States. I mean, look, we're all. That's full blown eugenics already and that's uncomfortable. I think we, and I think more people should actually talk about that in the context of what you're saying. It's probably even much higher for several other genetic screening disorders. And the question has to be like, what this leads to, the permissibility of it. Ivf. I didn't know this. It is standard in IVF to screen all of the embryos, which is effectively eugenics. So it's not that they're selecting four, it's that if any embryo is genetically, you know, like, I don't know, I guess genetically has issues or whatever, they won't implant them. Yeah, that's eugenics too. That's baked into the IVF system.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And Ross is like, you know, much more kind of. He's not anti genetic ivf, but he's much more, I mean, you have to ask that.

[Krystal Ball]

If I just explain that to people, everyone should kind of be like, I don't know about that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And his point to her is basically like, okay, people are okay with it when it's, you know, people are struggling with fertility issues and this is an intervention to allow them, you know, the miracle of parenting when they would not have been able to have a baby at all. But it is a different question when you're talking about this for basically all of society where it becomes the fringe weird thing to do to do it the old fashioned way. And is there something about the human experience that is lost if that's what we're shifting towards?

[Krystal Ball]

I agree. In any case, it was a great monologue. I enjoyed it. Thank you. Friday show for everybody tomorrow. See you guys then. Also, this is gonna be late as hell. Sorry.

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[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast.