← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
8/26/25: Krystal and Saagar Debate Abrego Garcia Deportation, Israel Double Taps Hospital, Bari Weiss Meltdown Over Breaking Points
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C
So we have a whole bunch of updates for you with regard to Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Just before we play you the latest, let me bring everybody up to speed so you'll recall that he was wrongfully deported to El Salvador country that he had been the judicial system had come and said you cannot deport him to El Salvador. The government admitted the mistake, but refused to bring him back in spite of a Supreme Court decision saying you should try to enable his return. Okay. Government ultimately kind of buckles, does allow him to come back, but charges him with these series of crimes, including alleged human trafficking, and sort of use that as a cover and a pretext for why, oh, we're not really backing down and allowing him back. Instead, we want to bring him back and charge him. Okay. So in the context of that trial, he was released pending the actual court date. So he's released last week now. He had to go back to check in at the Baltimore ICE office, and they ended up detaining him. And I'll give you the rest of what they plan to do next. But first, let's take a look at Abrego Garcia speaking at a rally outside of that Baltimore ICE office before turning himself in, being re detained. And we also have some images here of him saying goodbye to his wife, who does happen to be an American citizen. Let's take a listen to this.
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A
This is why I want to thank each and every one of you who marched Lift your voices, never stopped praying and continued to fight in my name. Gracias a mi pareja de vida y toda mi familia. Thank you to my life partner and wife, Jennifer, to my brother Cesar, to my mother Cecilia, to my children, to my nieces and nephews, to all of my family.
- [04:08]
C
All right, so let's go and put the next piece up on the screen. This is a Tara Sheet with the very latest development. So he turns himself in, he is re arrested, and the government indicates that they want to deport him to Uganda, who can't be deported to El Salvador. So they've decided that they want to deport him to Uganda. That move has now been at least temporarily blocked by a federal judge. Let me go ahead and read a little bit of this POLITICO story to give you some of the twists and turns here. So they said a federal judge temporarily blocked the Trump administration's bid to deport Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran man who has become a symbol of Trump's mass deportation agenda to Uganda. This judge on Monday ordered the administration to keep Abrego in a detention facility in Virginia while she weighs his renewed effort to prevent immigration officials from abruptly casting him out of the country for a second time in five months. This is a critical part and helps to create an understanding about what his legal challenge will be based on. So his lawyers say that the Administration had offered to deport him to Costa Rica, something that he agreed to. He accepted that, but they said they would only allow him to be deported to Costa Rica if he pleaded guilty to the human smuggling charges that he faces in Tennessee. So he refused to plead guilty in exchange for being able to be deported to Costa Rica. And so in order to punish him for not pleading guilty to these human trafficking charges, which appear to be pretty flimsy at best, in order to punish him for that, they have said, okay, instead we're going to deport you to Uganda. That is the specific piece that is likely to come under close scrutiny from this judge. At a hearing Monday afternoon that Judge Zinnis said she had several concerns about the rapid fire deportation proceedings, noting Abrego might be entitled to go to his designated country of choice, Costa Rica rather than Uganda. She also said if the Justice Department used his deportation as a cudgel to coerce a guilty plea, it would be a violation of his constitutional rights. Quote, you can't condition the relinquishment of constitutional rights in that regard. So that sort of brings you guys up to speed. He's been rearrested. I think one of the obvious conclusions to draw is that if they want to deport him before his criminal trial even occurs, tells you something, Sagar. I think about the strength of the evidence that they feel they have against him. You know, I think we always suspected when they brought him back and threw these charges at him, that it was pretty flimsy, pretty protectual. They have never been able to. They've never, you know, no judge has ever found he was even a gang member, let alone a gang leader. The traffic stop that this alleged human smuggling charge is coming based on, you know, the officers who evaluated him at the scene let him go, no charges were filed, et cetera. So the fact they wanna get him out of the country before he even has his date in court, if this was truly some violent gang leader, human trafficker, et cetera, you would think you would wanna lock him behind bars, not just release him into whatever random country you decide.
- [07:18]
A
I. Look, I can't deny the Trump administration. Everything they've said has been bullshit. And that's just basically true. Some of us got taken for a ride. I'll raise my hand and I'll admit it. Basically. Not only in the original deportation, the MS.13 stuff the case. I read it. Most of the accusations, they're not particularly well founded. So that's the truth. They're using the Uganda thing broadly, it seems, as some sort of like, pay scheme for what is it? For pleading guilty. So that's it. And they want to make an example broadly for deportation. So I think that's fair. And I'll put that all out there just so people know that I'm trying to approach this in a fair enough way. I do think it's still worth considering. How does this guy who's lived here since. What is it? Let me get the date correctly. Is it 2013? I'm fairly certain 2011. I apologize. 2011. And he doesn't speak a word of English and he can't give a press conference. How is that acceptable? And that's like the more broad question that I think all of us need to answer here. Abrego Garcia illegally entered our country in 2011. He was not removed during that entire period. He came actually as an unaccompanied minority to join his brother who also came here illegally in that time period. Does not acquire the ability to speak English. Is a low skilled laborer who has not. Low skilled laborer who has not graduated from high school. And the broad current position is that he should be allowed to stay here and get some sort of pathway to citizenship. In my opinion, it all falls apart for his whole deportation to Uganda thing. When his lawyer quite literally says with a straight face, you can't deport him to a country where he doesn't speak the English, doesn't speak the language. D4 Please, let's go ahead and play it. It is preposterous that they would send him to Africa to a country where he doesn't even speak the language. A country with documented human rights violations when there are so many other options.
- [09:12]
E
His family suffered enough.
- [09:13]
A
They need to stop trying to separate them. The official language of Uganda is English. That is a tacit admission that he doesn't speak the language of English. This is the point that I think people really need to grapple with.
- [09:24]
C
Isn't it English and Swahili?
- [09:26]
A
Well, yeah, but I mean, English is one of their official languages. My point is just more broadly that he has lived here since 2011, doesn't speak English. His day laborer, by his own admission, has literally been in this country for more than a decade. And this is the type of person that we are supposed to say should get amnesty in a pathway decisionship. I think everyone should sit with that. Like that is preposterous. We just had an argument earlier in our show about the best and the brightest. That's not what this looks like. And I'm not putting him down as A human being. I don't think his human worth is less his worth to the United States as an addition. And if we were to legalize that person, statistically, what happens to somebody who doesn't have a high school education, who doesn't speak any English, if that person is legally a United States citizen, they're gonna be on welfare.
- [10:09]
C
Okay.
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A
That's just the basic truth.
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C
But he's not, and in fact, you're not right that he's a day laborer. He's a sheet metal worker for a Local 100. Smart Local 100 in Maryland, who defended him, by the way, in process of all of this.
- [10:22]
A
Yes, I understand.
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C
And I'm also curious what you make of the rights of his American citizen wife and his American citizen children, who are also being dramatically punished because, again, because the Trump administration made a mistake in their deportation of him, violated a lawful court order and refused to make.
- [10:43]
A
I'm acknowledging that.
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C
That's why they're making an example of him and trying to make his life miserable, accusing him of crimes that there is no evidence that he has committed, smearing him in the public eye. And so I just.
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A
I'm acknowledging every word.
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C
I disagree on every level with your characterization of who he is and his value and worth to society. You know, I think the fact that he's a sheet metal worker, apprentice. Yes, I think that's important. I think that's valuable to the country. He's clearly assimilated enough to have American wife and American kids.
- [11:16]
A
That's a commentary on America, though. That you can live here and have children and apparently have a US Citizen wife and not speak any English. That's a huge problem.
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C
I don't even know that.
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A
I don't know how this is acceptable.
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C
Sagar. Here's the other thing, though. I don't even know that, like, there's a big difference between being able to speak any English and being able to give a press conference in front of media and feel comfortable in your level of fluency.
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Okay.
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C
Those are two very different things. So I haven't personally administered an English language test to him. I know you haven't either. So, you know, to hinge his citizenship and whether or not he should be punished and abused in this way, on what his level of fluency is in the English language, I think is preposterous.
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A
Why is that preposterous?
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C
Clearly, he has stimulated.
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A
If you can't speak enough English to give your defense in English, why should you be a citizen? It's ridiculous, really.
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C
He is assimilated Enough to be fully integrated into a work community, into a social community, into having, again, an American citizen, wife and kids. And I think it's thoroughly disgusting that the Trump administration, rather than admit they made a mistake, has sought to absolutely destroy this man in order to make a point and to never back down. That is really the core that's going on.
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A
That's why I'm separating the two, because I agree with you. Okay? They lied to us. It's absolutely true. 100%. Absolutely 100%. They're smearing him. They deported him wrongfully, in my opinion. He should have been deported a long time ago, but whatever, okay, we are where we are today. Do I think he should be sent to Uganda? No. All right. Even Costa Rica doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm sure we should go through the process. I think his asylum claims is bullshit, in my opinion, because the vast majority of these asylum claims are bullshit, Especially in a country where it's dramatically less violent. You can't really fear as much. Now, perhaps his fear is from the government, I guess, is a different story. Again, we can litigate all of that in court, so I'm gonna put my cards there very closely on the table. But again, at a basic level, you cannot have a society where, if you have lived here for over a decade and you cannot present yourself in English, you cannot be a citizen. Now, the point about being able to assimilate is actually the opposite, because the problem is we have now vast numbers of illegal immigrants and others who come to the United States and have pockets where English is not spoken. That is not acceptable. And the even more broad point, very importantly, is about not only assimilation, but also the economic value. Yes, I understand it's very hard for liberals to talk about this, but when you're talking about the addition of new entrants into your country, you need to have an assurance that those people will be able to stand on their own feet.
- [13:46]
C
And he does.
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A
No, no, no.
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C
Clever. He does.
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A
Okay.
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C
Is he on welfare? No, no.
- [13:51]
A
But. No, what you just said. Note what you just said specifically about sheet level apprentice. That's part of the reason I said day level work. Labor. And if you also look previously working, hanging out in a Home Depot parking lot where he was arrested in 2019 is the quite literal definition of day laboring. Now, when you put.
- [14:07]
C
And he would.
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A
No, but when you put that together and on top of lack better himself.
- [14:10]
C
And achieve a more stable job on.
- [14:13]
A
Top of lack of English proficiency, it that that question should be asked. How can this person be allowed to stay in the United States and should they be allowed to become a citizen? Again, this is the problem broadly with speaking of immigrants as a broad group. You're trying to loop in like Nobel Prize winning scientists with somebody who's a day laborer who doesn't speak in English, who also entered the country illegally. Those two are not fundamentally the same. I believe you've agreed with me in the past that there should be a requirement for English language proficiency to become a citizen. I don't even think you should be able to get a work visa or anything if you don't speak any English. Now, in this particular case, this is a problem and an emblem of our broken immigration system.
- [14:52]
C
So let me just.
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A
And it should not work for Kilmar.
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C
Obrega Garcia, if he spoke English to your level of, you know, whatever your standard is, sure. Can he stay?
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A
Well, no, but that's not the point.
- [15:03]
C
So then why are you making that the point?
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A
Because it's an example of how somebody who has lived here from 2011 doesn't speak English. That is an insane, insane thing that nobody apparently on the left wants to grapple with. We have tens of millions of people here who don't speak any English.
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C
It does not offend me the way that it does. I will certainly acknowledge that to be the case. We don't have an official language as a country.
- [15:26]
A
No. I think Trump has.
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C
Our history and tradition as a nation has been there's always been these immigrant pockets and communities and they cause a lot of issues a generation later. Guess what? Their kids are fully integrated Americans. So, yes, for some people. You know what? I'm not that great at learning foreign languages either. For some people who come here, it may be more of a struggle to be able to Russia and the level of fluency that you're looking for, we also don't have right now. If we had a pathway to citizenship that was conditional upon English language acquisition, I have no doubt that he would pursue that in order to be able to meet the metrics that are set out by the government. We don't have that. So there is no motivation for him to learn the language outside of whatever level he is, which again, I don't even know whether he designed language or not.
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A
Designed for his motivation. No, the motivation, again, should not be working for the people who broke the law and entered our country illegally since 2011. Let me underscore that. 2011, this person has lived here. I'm not putting down his worth as a human. I think he has been treated Very badly by the US Government. If he actually stays and prosecutes, he'll probably get himself a settlement.
- [16:33]
C
Here's what Biden Sager is. I don't. Look, your view is legitimate and there's obviously we have profound disagreements about the level of immigration that should be permitted into this country and the value of immigrants who come into this country. What bothers me about your approach is you're more outraged about this man who, okay, yes, he crossed the border illegally.
- [16:55]
A
Yes.
- [16:56]
C
Outside of that, zero evidence he did anything wrong, applied for asylum, went through the process, followed the court order, all of these sorts of things. Right. Contributing to society, becomes a sheet metal apprentice, marries an American wife, by all accounts is a good dad, was there with his disabled son when he gets arrested, etc. You are more upset about that one man than you are about this government lying, trying to ruin his life, accusing him of crimes he did not commit. We can put this DHS tweet D3 up on the screen that you have a government that can just to the whole world smear someone who has not been found guilty of any of this. Says DHS is thrilled that this MS.13 gang member, human trafficker, wife beater, child predator is being processed for removal to Uganda. That the government, which has infinitely more power than Kilmar Abrego Garcia could do this. And that's not your primary outrage. That to me is just. That's hard for me to wrap my head around.
- [17:58]
A
I completely understand where you're coming from and I'll explain it very clearly. It's because I think for you and for most people, they feel you Kilmar as an American. I don't think he's an American. I don't think he or I think he is an emblem of a broken society.
- [18:09]
C
Honestly, it's irrelevant to me whether he's an American.
- [18:11]
A
But that's kind of my point.
- [18:13]
C
This is about a government. A government that will do this to him, will do it to anyone. Anyone.
- [18:19]
A
But see, I actually, first of all, I don't think that that's true.
- [18:21]
C
It is. Of course it's true. Of course it's true.
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A
It's not true. Nobody American has been deported to seacot. Now, again, I have openly said I was full of.
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C
I was totally Americans arrested by ICE and detained for lengthy periods of time. You do have massive crackdowns on speech of Americans.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And she is married to an American. What about her rights? Why don't you care about what this is doing to her life? Since your century, you're focused. First and foremost on the rights of American citizens.
- [18:50]
A
She's not being prosecuted, as far as I know, from the US Government.
- [18:54]
C
Ruined. Yes, let's be honest. We're married.
- [18:56]
A
Somebody who was here illegally. And when you do that, there are consequences. I mean, so just because somebody who's married to somebody who is legal, they.
- [19:03]
C
Get absolved of our immigration.
- [19:05]
A
If I marry a drug dealer, they get absolved of being drug dealers.
- [19:07]
C
Part of our immigration system is meant to enable American citizens to be able to marry who they want. I mean, that's why we have process for people to be able to obtain green cards and then ultimately become permanent residents and naturalized citizens based on getting their, you know, their marriage to an American citizen. And so, you know, that seems to not enter into your equation either. But again, he didn't.
- [19:31]
A
But you're reversing terms because he came here illegally before he got married. He broke the law far long before any of this happened. If his US and wife had gone down to El Salvad, met him down in El Salvador, tried to bring him back here, it's a little bit of a different story.
- [19:44]
C
So she deserves to have her life and her family broken apart and these American kids to lose their dad and him be shipped to Uganda and locked up and had the whole weight.
- [19:54]
A
I don't think you should have to.
- [19:55]
C
Go to the federal government set against this one man because they won't admit that they made a mistake. I mean, that is such an abuse of power. And I don't know why you think that anyone, American citizen or not, is going to be protected from that abuse of power when clearly this government is willing to lie, to ignore court orders, to refuse the Supreme Court order to put out there scurrilous allegations with no basis in fact. There's no limiting principle on that whatsoever.
- [20:22]
A
Again, I think it's entirely fair. And to the extent it has affected Americans, I have spoken repeatedly against it. Now again, it gets to the outrage and it's about the system. And I think he represents the 30. Nobody even knows what the actual number is. It could be 30 million, it could be 50 million, apparently, according to more recent statistics. I have no clue. But my point is I am outraged by the fact that we have literal lawlessness which is endorsed and was created by the previous administration, which has wreaked mass social chaos and a lot of very bad effects. I think it's a good thing to make sure that people who are irrelegally who in my opinion are not just opinion, I think there's a lot of studies to back it up are depressing American wages and also are basically being used as quasi cutouts for big business. All of that, I think is really bad, I think somebody should try to fix. And instead this becomes an emblem for the outrage of the Trump administration, which I, by the way, I blame entirely on the Trump administration. And they have lost me 100% in their ability to ever convince me of what they're telling the truth. That's why on the Kilmar case, I'm like, look, I'm gonna read it for myself. I'm not sitting here saying he's some gang member or anything like that. I don't think he deserves to be beaten or tortured or sent to Uganda. I don't think that that generally is how any human being deserves to, quote, be treated. So I will totally accept everything you're saying. I am talking specifically about the next step for if the Democrats and the liberals have their way, which is he becomes a citizen. I'm totally against that. Not just him, but the representation of mass pockets of the United States of America where English is not spoken. It's Barack Obama who said actually that when he walks down the street or tries to go get his car fixed and he has to hear Spanish and sees people waving Mexican flags, that it makes him feel angry. I think it should make anybody actually who lives here in the United States and believes in some sort of civic identity, the fact that we have mass pockets of people who have lived here potentially for decades who are unable to speak the language.
- [22:16]
C
But again, to establish. That's not really your concern.
- [22:19]
A
No, but it is a huge.
- [22:19]
C
Because you certainly don't support like a pathway to citizenship with an English language requirement.
- [22:24]
A
Well, okay, let's flip it around. If it didn't, if there was an English pref. If there was an English language proficiency, if you had a, let's say decade long track record where you could prove that you not only had the skills to actually get some sort of, not only education, had the education requirement, had the ability, the skills to make sure that you're never going to be on welfare, that you're going to be additive, if you could actually prove that your job and what you're adding to America would not be able to depress or be used as some sort of H1B style cutout, then maybe I would, as long as there was also so stringent and massive enforcement on illegal immigration. But that's not the system. And that's why I don't entertain the amnesty or any of that right now. Because I Know, it basically is a blank check giveaway to all of the people here with none of the same requirements. This is the problem too about the broader conversation. I think around immigration specifically is like what you were saying earlier. The conflation of skilled and unskilled makes it so we can be like oh well, broadly together they're all the same.
- [23:26]
C
But don't you oppose all immigration?
- [23:27]
A
No, I don't oppose all immigration.
- [23:29]
C
Net zero.
- [23:29]
A
No, our current system. So let's explain again, when I oppose immigration, I'm saying in the interim period we need an immigration moratorium because we have so many tens of millions of foreign born citizens which is causing again, in my opinion, mass social chaos. I didn't say no immigration forever. I think probably for the next 20, maybe 25 years. I think it's important. Now if you look at it broadly, I mean, look, this is definitely another country.
- [23:57]
C
I think it'd be bad for Americans, I think it'd be bad for everyone. And I just, I don't agree with your assessment that immigrants are the cause of like social chaos.
- [24:05]
A
Well, they're a big one.
- [24:05]
C
That there's, you know, this massive. How can you have a society non assimilation? It's simple. You know, in actuality the studies that have been done have found that new immigrants in this era assimilate into American culture much faster, partly because American culture is so globally dominant that there's already a lot of sort of American culture spread around the world. And so the acquisition of whatever sort of core American cultural traits are happens at a much faster clip than it did in previous generations.
- [24:33]
A
How can it continue to go apace when you're adding 1.5 million more per year and you have mass pockets of people who don't speak any English and which apparently it's not even a societal expectation that you can live here for over a decade. I mean, I think the reason why.
- [24:44]
C
That bothers me so much is because.
- [24:46]
A
We have no civic understanding.
- [24:48]
C
You want to motivate people to learn English, if that's a specific thing, there's a very clear way to do that. You create a pathway to citizenship that is contingent on some sort of English language acquisition, which I certainly would be okay with and I think most Democrats would support. But that's not what you want.
- [25:03]
A
I actually don't think that they would support it because it would have to be paired with a.
- [25:07]
C
That is not true. They have long. This has long been the standard ass Democratic party position since, you know, but probably before Barack Obama.
- [25:14]
A
But they don't believe in the Actual enforcement and the deportation where that's not true.
- [25:19]
C
Barack Obama again was the deporter in chief.
- [25:20]
A
Yes.
- [25:21]
C
Joe Biden deported more people than Donald Trump deported. Okay, so this is such a canard that Democrats are open borders. It's for they.
- [25:30]
A
How did 10 to 12 million people illegally enter the country under the last administration? Even if Joe Biden deported, quote, more numbers, 10 to 12 million people are here illegally because of him. It's a basic fact. And by the way, it's a huge reason why the election was lost. This is the lack of grappling. And you're saying the lack of enforcement. Because what it comes down to, it is not everybody's gonna pass those stringent requirements that we just laid out. So what happens? They gotta go. And when times for them to go, well, that's when I know, oh, everybody comes bleeding hard and nobody's ever supposed to leave.
- [25:58]
C
But the thing is like, and nobody.
- [25:59]
A
Actually believes in sending them back.
- [26:00]
C
This is where I think there is. I'm confused by your position. And then, you know, we can wrap this. I'll let you have the last word. We can wrap this up and move on because you don't want any immigration. But then you're also saying, well, you would theoretically support a pathway to citizenship that has English language. But then you don't think Democrats will support it. Like, what do you actually. What do you actually think? Is the English language thing important? It just seems to me that you think immigrants are bad for society. No, and I disagree.
- [26:30]
A
No, I don't think.
- [26:31]
C
I think immigrants have been the probably most important part of America developing into the country that it is. I look at Kilmar and Brego Garcia and I see someone who has been a valuable member who isn't on welfare, who did is a sheet metal oppression.
- [26:46]
A
He's not on welfare because he's not a citizen. Like, it's not. Like, this is my point.
- [26:49]
C
Yeah, but my point is he is working like he's. I don't know what more you want from him.
- [26:53]
A
What people who worked aren't on welfare. That's come on like 40% of the country's on food stamps right now. As if they're not all working. Like, that's my point is that if you have a low wage and you're unable to actually provide for, there's no.
- [27:04]
C
Indication that he's some like, you know, bottom feeder, can't support himself. Not that I even, you know, think of people in that way. So it's just to bring it back. I don't get how you can look at this story and not be first and foremost horrified by the abuse of power by this government against people who are genuinely powerless in this system and be concerned about what that means for all of us, immigrant and non immigrant alike.
- [27:33]
A
I think, as I've said, I take your point and to the extent it has affected Americans, I have spoken out against it. I do think the Trump administration's actions have not only been outrageous, but deeply damaging to the cause that I actually support. And just to wrap it all up together for what you were saying. Yeah, you were saying, I think that all immigrants are bad for the country. No, I don't think that. I think that more immigrants would be bad for the country. When I say could I conceptually see a pathway to citizenship perhaps if paired with stringent enforcement, very high standards for who those people were and no more future immigration. All of these things are actually non contradictory because what they come towards is to try and have a society which can actually hash out its differences and have a civic understanding and not be one of ethnic pockets which creates huge strife basically and degrades our overall social fabric, which I believe is the current system as it is right now. Deportation and enforcement is very important until I see any particular movement on that. That's why we shouldn't even entertain so called pathway to citizenship talk. And especially if it were to be paired with the current endorsement of the system which brings some 1.5 million people, new people into the country every single year. All that would do, in my opinion, is pour gasoline on all the fire individually. Much of these things work together. Part of the reason why the Republican Party is where it is today of no amnesty and basically broke the 2013 consensus is because it seems like the amnesty always happens like it did under Reagan and then the deportation and the enforcement continues to slow as while the immigration. The INS act of 1965 remains in place with the current USCIS numbers that are put into place, which brings some 1.5 million people on over and over and over again. And we have the highest foreign born population since the early 1900s, which I will remind you was followed by an immigration massive immigration restriction. There were a lot of problems with that bill. It was explicitly racist and it kind of caused the Japanese to go away from us. I don't believe in racial quotas or any of that to be implemented, but it had a lot of net social benefits actually if you look at the way that we had assimilation over some 40 year period. And I do think that people need to grapple deeply with the fact that we have currently part of our social fabric and destruction is not just economic. A huge part of it is civic. And it comes down to the fact that we have millions of people who entered this country illegally and are somehow seen as more American than the rest of us, or better, actually citizens. Because that's the way that a lot of the Democratic leaders actually even talk about them. I mean, I saw Amy Klobuchar and others. It's like a quasi system. And actually, as someone who is a child of an immigrant, it's offensive, you know, to say that we're somehow like, better than others. I hate this whole model minority thing that people always talk about with Indians. It's like, no, that's preposterous. Because it's saying that like, we're better than the people who are already here. No, we're all the same. And we should strive to actually all kind of be the same same and to reach that understanding. That's my broad thing. You're happy to respond.
- [30:33]
C
Yeah, immigrants aren't the problem, okay? I mean, you know, the billionaire class that has rigged the system and that pits us against each other and makes it into some fricking zero sum game that, yes, delights in paying people under the table and violating their labor rights, that's the problem. And if you want to deal with, you know, the tearing of social fabric and the, you know, societal strife, the best thing you could do is to make sure people can get a good job with a high wage and have access to health care and housing. And for that to be affordable and for people to be able to feel again like it is possible to aspire to a middle class life. And I think immigrants have very little to do with that and generally are, are positive in terms of their contribution to society and helping to people to.
- [31:25]
A
Achieve this will be the central question of our time. By the way, I'm probably gonna lose this fight. Just so everybody knows. Thanks to most of the actions of the Trump administration, which I've got my eyes very wide open to. So just in case anybody's wondering which direction you're probably gonna win Crystal after the Trump administration is out of power, in my opinion.
- [31:44]
F
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- [32:44]
G
If you eat too many ultra processed foods you could be starving your gut microbes and they'll get hangry. That's one of many things I learned after working on a new audio course about the gut microbiome. You can learn how to keep your gut happy by listening to Try this from the Washington Post. I'm Christina Quinn. I host Try this. Dig in with me on practical advice for life's common challenges follow. Try this right now, wherever you're listening. Seriously, try it.
- [33:15]
A
Huddle up.
- [33:16]
C
We got one play.
- [33:17]
B
Everything we work for comes down to this.
- [33:19]
H
Quick question. Speaking of workouts, how would you rate your athletic program?
- [33:23]
B
Bro, we're in the middle of the state championship.
- [33:25]
H
Oh, so like a B then?
- [33:27]
A
Dude, get out of our huddle.
- [33:28]
H
Well, at holmes.com we leave it all on the field to get you detailed information on local, local schools.
- [33:33]
B
Off the field.
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H
Off the field.
- [33:36]
A
Copy.
- [33:36]
H
All right. Go sports.
- [33:38]
B
How'd he even get in here?
- [33:40]
A
Homes.com.
- [33:41]
H
We'Ve done your homework.
- [33:44]
A
Let's get to Israel.
- [33:46]
C
Yeah. So we covered this horrible story yesterday and I am gonna play the video again just as a reminder and, you know, warning before I play it that it is deeply disturbing. The IDF struck Nasser Hospital, which is the large, you know, most significant hospital in the Gaza Strip at this point. And then they waited 15 minutes for journalists to arrive to document the damage, for ambulance crews, civil defense personnel to come in to rescue those who had been impacted. They waited 15 minutes and then they struck again. They murdered, I believe it was 20 people, five of them journalists, by the way, and also again, a number of, of civil defense workers. That bombing, that strike was caught on camera. Again, warning, this is disturbing. Let's take a look. So you can see them just blown apart. And the damage was utterly catastrophic. So because you had five journalists killed Number of whom actually work for Western outlets, there was a significant outcry. You know this, when this happens to Palestinians who aren't attached to any sort of Western organization, this just happens and no one says a goddamn thing. But because these journalists, courageous journalists, were working for Western outlets, there was a bit of an outcry, including some comments from President Trump that. We'll play you in a moment. So in response, the Israelis did what they have done occasionally when they felt this sort of international pressure. They've claimed this was a mishap. Oh, we're so sorry. We're going to launch a full investigation to find out what went wrong. As if this isn't part and parcel standard issue Israeli government idea. Here is a spokesperson for the IDF issuing a statement in English, by the way, expressing how they're going to look into this and how they're going to launch an investigation.
- [35:56]
I
We are aware of reports that harm was caused to civilians, including journalists. I would like to be clear from the start, the IDF does not intentionally target civilians. It's begun. This war created impossible fighting conditions and is preventing its end by still holding 50 of our hostages. Having said that, as a professional military committed to international law, we are obligated to investigate our operations thoroughly and professionally. The Chief of the General Staff has instructed that an inquiry be conducted immediately to understand the circumstances of what happened and how it happened. As always, we will present our findings as transparently as possible. We regret any harm to uninvolved individuals and are committed to continue fighting Hamas.
- [36:51]
C
We regret any harm. Sagar, we don't intentionally target civilians. Let me just lay on for you guys. This came out recently, even by the Israeli military's official figures, they said that 83% of the dead are civilians. And we know that is actually far below what the actual percentage of civilians is because they count all men, basically all men over the age of like 15 as being Hamas or some sort of militant. Even by their standards, 83% of those who have been killed were civilians. So at this point for them to claim that they, oh, they don't intentionally target civilians and oh, we regret this mishap. We're going to look into it, we're going to investigate. I don't know who believes this crop at this point.
- [37:38]
A
Well, what was crazy to me was actually the initial response was let's put E3 please, up on the screen, cuz this is really important. Originally the Channel 14 in Israel said that this was Hamas's Nasser headquarters and said that they had, quote, identified a surveillance camera used for intelligence gathering, saying it was used by Hamas militants and then fired the tank shell to, quote, neutralize the threat. The strike was approved and coordinated with senior command. They knew about it before it was being carried out. It was only after it was caught on video, basically, on what, live television, that they came back and they're like, oh, actually it was a mishap. Like, no, I mean, it is just emblematic of everything that we've seen on camera with Tony whenever we interviewed him here. The former Green Beret Thomas Whistle player is shoot first, ask questions later, if at all, and basically fire at will if you want to. Everything is Hamas. Cameras are Hamas, any camera there is Hamas. The degradation of a hospital or of any civilian infrastructure, reporters, et cetera, they all deserve to die. Initially, by the way, a lot of the pro Israel accounts were saying that the journalist and or others of people who were killed in the strike were all Hamas anyway, so why do we even care? And then the IDF clowns them because they say. What do they say? They're like, well, actually, it was a mistake. After they've spent hours justifying the strike, spinning.
- [39:05]
C
They're all Hamas. And I want to. We can play a little bit of. Let's see. What is this? E5. This is one of the women, one of the journalists who was killed is a woman who's featured in this video that was put out to support Gaza's journalist women. That's her, actually, right there. Her name is Aryam Abu Dhaga. Apparently, another one of the women who was featured in this video, her husband was killed by the Israelis. And I just want to put a name to these individuals. They're not just statistics in all of this. Even though of course there's so many, you could never say all of their names. Hassam Al Masri, who was a Reuters contractor. Mohamed Salama worked for Al Jazeera as a cameraman. As I said before, Mariam Abu Dhaga, she was freelance, worked with AP and others. Incredible photojournalist by the way. Her work, people have been sharing it is just extraordinary. Ahmed Abu Aziz, freelance contributor to Middle East Eye and others, and Moaz Abu Taha, who was freelance and contributed some to Reuters and other outlets. And you know, the way that these outlets, even when their own people were murdered, covered this was also shameful. But that's the reason why the IDF even felt the need to pretend like they cared and like this was a mishap and you know, something that they don't do every single day. We are now at somewhere around 250 journalists who've been killed by the IDF. And it's really clear, like, they don't want people to be there to document their genocide. That's why they don't allow international journalists from outside to come in. The people we're talking about here are all Palestinians who work freelance for these various news organizations, so that those news organizations have some sort of a window into what is happening inside of the Gaza Strip. The Israeli government doesn't allow journalists in because they don't want their war crimes documented. And then they directly target journalists also, like Anas and his whole crew for Al Jazeera because they don't want people to see what they are doing on the ground. The tactic that they use documented by 972 magazine of these double tap strikes, this is also standard issue protocol. They will hit something, in this case a hospital. Then they will wait 15 minutes for journalists, aid workers, rescue crews, everyone to gather, and then they will strike it again. It is literally a tactic of terrorists. That is a terrorist tactic. That's what we're talking about here. And they do it all the time. One last note on Nassau Hospital is all the doctors that we've talked to, American doctors who we've spoken to after they've come back to Gaza to relay their experience there, at least the ones we've talked to recently, they all go to Nasser Hospital. That is the hospital that is closest to these IDF aid distribution sites that end up in aid massacres, according to the doctors, on a daily basis. And Nassar Hospital is the one that receives most of the casualties from those mass casualty incidents. So this is a very important part also of the medical infrastructure which has been, you know, I mean, the whole medical infrastructure in Gaza has just been attacked and decimated and destroyed. But you have a lot of international doctors from America and around the world who are at Nassar Hospital, and that's the place that they're attacking. I mean, it's just. It's just utterly.
- [42:32]
A
And if they killed them.
- [42:33]
C
Insane.
- [42:34]
A
I mean, yeah. I mean, imagine the twist and turns.
- [42:36]
C
The turns. We'll investigate ourselves.
- [42:37]
A
The twist and the turns that Mike Huckabee and other people would twist them and they would put themselves in. If an American doctor was killed there, it really is just disgraceful. All right, shall we go ahead and play Trump and his reaction? Let's get to it.
- [42:51]
E
Israelis bombed a hospital in Gaza that killed 20 people, including five journalists. When did this happen? This happened overnight today. I didn't know that. Any reaction to this? Are you going to talk to. I don't want to see it. At the same time, we have to end that whole nightmare. Right now. They're talking about Gaza City. There's all always talking about something. At some point it's going to get settled. And I'm saying, you better get it settled soon. You have to get it settled soon. And that means, you know, Nobody can forget October 7th. With that being said, it's got to get over with. It's got to get over with because between the hunger and all of the other problems, worse than hunger, death, pure death, people being killed. It's a terrible situation over there. Terrible, terrible situation. But it's coming, Coming to a head. It's coming to an end. I think within the next two to three weeks, you're gonna have pretty good conclusive. A conclusive ending.
- [43:45]
A
So you could see, he says it needs to come to an end, and it will come to an end in two to three weeks. That is news, I think, to the Israeli government, who wants to continue this thing basically forever, who didn't even respond.
- [43:57]
C
To the latest ceasefire proposal that Hamas.
- [44:00]
A
Accepted, literally, which, as I understand it, that was the most ground they had given in a ceasefire proposal. Now, look, they want endless war, Trump. And these people, they just. They either don't understand it, do understand it, and just continue to talk outside of their mouth. I tend to think Trump doesn't understand it. I think he takes a lot of this Bibi shit seriously. Like, I think he gets on the phone and Bibi's like, yes, yes, we're close, we're close, we're close. And he's like, well, he told me he was close. Like, it's about the deference.
- [44:27]
C
Do you think so?
- [44:28]
A
I really do. Because. Because at this point, what is the alternative for what's happening is that the alternative right now is total deference to Israeli policy is an absolute obfuscation and removal of American leadership, of American control over this proxy state. And instead they do what they want to do and accepting their lies or whatever their policy is without any strategic understanding. And then we had shahed on yesterday, and anybody who says otherwise, get rid of them. Yeah, right, that's it.
- [45:00]
C
You guys need to listen to that interview if you haven't. Because not only does he expose that, that you can't even diverge. He got fired for being like, guys, we're not supposed to clutch you. Day in Samaria. It's the West Bank. That has been standard issue government policy forever. But that was a bridge too far. Also, he was like, you know, we Should I guess? We don't, right guys? We don't support removing Palestinians to what was a Sudan that he objected to, specifically South Sudan. South Sudan. And they're like, no, you gotta go, sorry, you're too much of a pro Palestine activist here. This again, standard issue pablum stuff from the Biden administration, from the first Trump administration, from the Obama administration, George W. But you could go back and back and back, and now that is out of bounds. The other thing that was important to get from him is that who is running our policy towards Israel at this point. And based on his assessment, it's pretty much Mike Huckabee. It's pretty much Mike Huckabee and his aide, whose name I'm blanking on Milstein, who was critical in getting Shawud fired apparently. And Huckabee, as we know, is an absolute end times psycho. That is who is. He is a religious zealot who is not pushing Israeli policy because it's in America's interest. It's because he has a certain religious, ideological fringe belief. And that is what, more than anything at this point appears to be guiding US policy vis a vis this quote, unquote ally that we send billions of dollars to every year in order to create and cause this absolute horror. So that's where we are. So Trump's like, oh, it's gonna be over in a few weeks. Like, what are you talking about? His way? It's almost worthless to listen to what he has to say. It just confuses issues more to even listen what he has to say, because there's zero sign that there's anything other than endless death, destruction, ethnic cleansing, attacks on hospitals, murdering of journalists for the indefinite future based on what we actually see happening, not whatever bullshit falls out of Donald Trump's mouth on a day to day basis.
- [47:10]
A
I think broadly what it is is that Trump and them view it like Ukraine. It's intractable. And by intractable, leave it up to how it goes.
- [47:19]
C
Yeah, you just sort of check it out.
- [47:20]
A
The expert. Yeah, exactly. And that. And also because the part of the coalition which is all that enthused about it is mostly in the Democrats. They're like, eh, fine. They don't seem to understand the damage that it's doing to them broadly, not just with young people, but even with younger Republicans. And to be honest, I'm not sure they even care anymore because they paid a lot of lip service podcasters and all this stuff. They just don't. Their view is, we're America, bitch. It's our second term we can do whatever we want. And that really basically defines all of their actions. If you're looking for a through line in it, they have no time for anybody who jumps off. Even people who have good faith criticisms like shy. I mean, he was not some mouth breathing liberal. Did you have that same takeaway? He was a guy who was like, look, look, I have a descending view. I'm on the inside. I'm gonna try and work it to the best that I can. But I mean, he wrote a tweet that said make Gaza beautiful again. All right, is this not like literally he drafted that tweet for Secretary Rubio. Right. That's problematic. Last time I checked, he's not some pink haired code pinker.
- [48:26]
C
He wasn't trying to do some revolutionary.
- [48:28]
A
Exactly. He was just like, hey guys, this is a little bit. This isn't it. Boom, done. You know, and I think that's. That's the scary part about this.
- [48:36]
C
Absolutely.
- [48:41]
F
This Labor Day, say goodbye to spills, stains and overpriced furniture with washablesofas.com featuring Annabe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just 699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. And Anabase pet friendly stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your life. Now through Labor Day. Get up to 60% off site wide@washablesofas.com Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees, every penny back. Shop now@washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [49:40]
G
If you eat too many ultra processed foods, you could be starving your gut microbes and they'll get hangry. That's one of many things I learned after working on a new audio course about the gut microbiome. You can learn how to keep your gut happy by listening. Try this from the Washington Post. I'm Christina Quinn. I host Try this. Dig in with me on practical advice for life's common challenges.
- [50:04]
C
Follow.
- [50:04]
G
Try this right now, wherever you're listening. Seriously, try it.
- [50:11]
H
Homes.com is the only place where you can find specialized neighborhood guides with the in depth insider info home shoppers want Very in depth info. Want to know if there's homes for sale in the area?
- [50:23]
C
Area.
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H
We've got it. How long has a home been on the market? We'll know it. Average lot size?
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A
Uh huh.
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H
Proximity to local parks.
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C
Of course.
- [50:33]
H
Insight into your neighbor's divorce. We're working on it. Homes.com we've done your homework.
- [50:41]
C
Speaking of journalists under attack.
- [50:43]
A
Yes we we over Breaking Points. Wow. Free Press has has really upset about journalists against journalism. That's where they're calling us. I was going to put this up here on the screen. We can go ahead and read from their editorial. They ran an entire piece here defending their piece, quote unquote debunking how pictures of 12 Gazan children who were held up as famine victims actually had pre existing conditions. So they quoted us from our show. Thank you for tuning in by the way. All of you over at the Free Press.
- [51:15]
C
Appreciate it.
- [51:16]
A
They say to Crystal Ball, host of Breaking Points, our journalism was quote just so disgusting. True. Ball's co hosts Sagaranjetty chimed in to compare our reporters to Holocaust deniers, saying that a key tenet of Holocaust denial is trying to claim that many of initial victims or purported victims had other preconditions and that's part of the reason why they died.
- [51:32]
C
Also true.
- [51:33]
A
Yeah, I mean that is an empirical fact. I was stating a fact. And you people are the ones who are supposedly so concerned about Holocaust denial. So maybe you should learn something about it. And they say quote, those who care about the truth will note that these children were not presented as the initial victims of anything. They were deceptively promoted to reflect the average Gazan. To suggest otherwise betrays a fleeting relationship with reality. Ball and Njeti are not alone. Glenn Greenwald, a so called self proclaimed free speech absolutist, argued not just for our censorship but for our trial at the Hague.
- [52:05]
C
You're here Glenn.
- [52:06]
A
He didn't say you should be shut down, he said you should be tried. And Barack Obama's former national security advisor Ben Rhodes says we are sociopathic. Ryan Grimm predicts that Olivia Rheingold's name will become notorious for a generation.
- [52:21]
C
You left out that Ben Rhodes nickname apparently was Hamas.
- [52:25]
A
I thought it was so dumb that.
- [52:26]
C
I would Hamas Ben. That was apparently what AIPAC. According to Ryan, that was AIPAC's nickname for him.
- [52:31]
A
So since Olivia I'm say something I wouldn't even have. I don't have the balls to put this on Twitter. But I'll say it here, Olivia, if you're so concerned about narratives about children that are being used for political purposes, do you think you know where I'm going here? Crystal, I have a little story for you called October 7th and claims about beheaded babies who were microwaved. Olivia, I have a task. Please go and investigate all of the claims about beheaded babies and microwaving and slaughtering and raping if you would like. Because I can guarantee you, Olivia, you will perhaps find that many initial claims turned out to be bullshit and were used for propagandistic purposes to push an agenda on the American and the global community to justify a war of annihilation in Gaza. So Olivia, that's a great story for you. In fact, you may want to look into Ryan Grim or any of the other people who have debunked systematically many of the claims that have come out. And so yes, I believe that since she is so concerned with journalism that she should then investigate the claims that her own news outlet has made about microwaved and beheaded babies on the day of October 7th. Also, there's a documentary put out by potentially one of your patrons, Sheryl Sandberg, about rape on October 7th. I would love to go through that one with a fine tooth comb. Shall we? And let's look at some of the rapes that have happened since October 7, and a lot of them that happen in Israeli prison camps that were actually found on video in fact. Barbarism and gangsterism and behavior of such sort of which we have multiple documented interests. And yet the ones that were pushed by you were used for propagandistic war purposes. So Olivia, since I know that you're watching, you can go ahead and take that. You can even clip this if you would like. I guess go ahead and cancel me.
- [54:19]
C
I have that. I have another assignment suggestion for them since they have such a keen interest in journalism. Yes, well, first of all, they might wanna fact check their own friggin piece. Cause we'll get to that in just a moment. Because they are multiple provable clear falsities, even within this one garbage smear piece. But in addition, since you're so concerned about journalists, I'm sure you've done tons of exploration of the way that hundreds of journalists have been targeted for murder by the idf. We just covered five who were killed yesterday. They are five among many who have been targeted for murder because they dare expose the truth about what's happening in Gaza. And that is enough for the Israelis to want to make sure that their existence is snuffed out not to mention, of course, that they block international journalists from being able to come into the Gaza Strip to document what's going on whatsoever. So that might be something else that you might want to explore, given your keen interest in the journalistic qualities and integrity. But speaking of that fact check, we can go ahead and put. Is it F4? Yes, F4 up on the screen, Ryan. I actually didn't even read that whole piece because I can't. But Ryan did and noted that there were multiple provable falsities in this one piece that was put up to attest to their incredible journalism. In particular, they write this. Why have these reporters ignored credible reports of the UN and its allied organizations themselves blocking the distribution of aid in Gaza? Okay, that is not true. And why are they twisting the truth about Hamas's theft of aid? Also not true. And you don't have to listen to me. You can listen to Israeli military officials who said as much to the New York Times, hardly a pro Palestine outlet. Similarly, why have they ignored the fact that the UN's associated body that attempts to assess whether there is a famine monkeyed with the metrics for its assessment in Gaza? This is exactly the claim that I spent quite a long time yesterday in my monologue debunking. There's this claim from the Israelis that they changed the threshold for famine measurement in order just to find famine in Gaza. They say they couldn't find a famine, so they forged. This is just garbage. Like, this is just a lie. They use the same exact criteria in Gaza that they had used in previous findings before. There are two separate thresholds that you can meet. One of them is basically a BMI metric. But oftentimes when there is a famine, it's very difficult to get a full assessment. So there's an alternative indication that they use called mid upper arm circumference. Now, the mid upper arm circumference metric, in order to establish a phase five, which is the most severe level of famine, you need 15% of the population to have met that. With the bmi metric. It's 30% of the population because they measure different things, so you would have different standards. It takes longer for the arm to wither down to the size that would indicate with certainty that there is famine conditions. That is the same guidance and threshold that they have used for other conflicts as well. So. So maybe they might wanna spend a little bit more time journalistically looking into some of their own bullshit claims, even within the context of this one article.
- [57:49]
A
Yeah. Wow. Shocking. What? Actually, scrutiny of their journalism will Do. By the way, Olivia's claim to fame is the girl who did the TikTok where she read all of Zoran Mamdani's tweets and she's like, it's called journalism. So that's what we're all dealing with her. So, Olivia, again, since I know you're watching, and potentially your salary depends on your boss, Barry, conning David Ellison into buying your bullshit outlet for $250 million. And I get that you're very upset and I just want to end on that one, which is, let's just as all say, the truth. Here's the truth. The reason why they're the most mad, and I'm almost 100% sure of this, is because of our segment making fun of their $250 million value.
- [58:37]
C
They couldn't really respond.
- [58:38]
A
I am aware they had to do this one, that that segment made the rounds amongst certain very influential people in Silicon Valley. Many of people who were laughing at Barry's audacity for $250 million valuation so that she can be the CBS News Pro Israel ombudsman and con some super rich billionaire into bailing out her shitty business where she's spending vast amounts of money on real estate with a number 31 ranked podcast, a YouTube channel which might as well be a dud, which is spending $2 a word to commission people trying to hire people with free health or with health care and all of these top level benefits. She needs a little bailout there. It's the pro Israel bailout that she needs from Larry Ellison's son. And so perhaps maybe that editorial and the sniping had something to do with it. So sorry, Barry, because the thing is, as we said here repeatedly, we want her to sell for 250. Cause it means you and I are filthy rich on paper. If that's the case. So, Barry, we wish you nothing but the best. All right? I've always wanted to be worth $100 million on paper, or at least go around telling people so. That's only possible if you paved the way for us. So please, Barry, please go around. We're cheering for you. All right? Just so I can tell people I'm sent a millionaire on paper. All right? So with all of that, let's go ahead and get. No, we're done. We're gonna do the AMA now. Sorry.
- [60:03]
C
Thank you guys so much for watching. Ryan and Emily will be tomorrow. Sagar and I will be back on Thursday and we'll see you all then.
- [60:22]
J
Every business has an ambition. Paypal Open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of more millions of PayPal customers worldwide. And your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo, pay later and all major cards so you can focus on scaling up when it's time to get growing. There's one platform for all business PayPal open grow today at paypalopen.com loans subject to approval in available locations at Hill's Pet Nutrition we know that pet parent guilt is real. Leaving too long, playing too little. New homes, new babies. Waking them up when they look so comfy. Running out of patience. Running out of treats, Running the vacuum. You can only do so much. That's why there's hills. Science led nutrition to help you give more love than humanly possible because you're only human. There's hills. Find the right food@hillspet.com ScienceDoesMore it's summer.
- [61:24]
D
Time to enjoy long days, lazy nights, and great food. Because Uber Eats has deals all summer long. So when hunger strikes, don't sweat it. Delicious deals are just a Tap away on UberEats. Enjoy all your favorite grocery items delivered straight to you. Get ice cream, soda and snacks from your favorite stores like Wegmans and cvs, and make the most of every moment. Now that sounds like a good summer order. Now on UberEats Terms apply. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.
- [61:52]
G
This is an iHeart podcast.