8/27/25: Trump Floats Nationalizing War Machine, Alex Jones Dire Trump Health Warning, Charlamagne Calls Jeffries 'AIPAC Shakur', PBD Bibi Interview

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – August 27, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Krystal Ball and Ryan Grim (filling in for Saagar Enjeti, who makes guest appearances) deliver a densely packed, incisive rundown of the political landscape—including the Trump administration’s escalating drive toward economic intervention, dire warnings about Trump’s health from Alex Jones, a viral new jab at Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries, and Benjamin Netanyahu’s controversial appearance on a major right-leaning podcast. The episode blends hard policy analysis with sharp cultural observations and in-depth on-the-ground reporting from Gaza, capturing the high-stakes moment in U.S. and global politics.

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Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Taylor Swift Engagement & Media Manipulation

Segment Start: [07:05]

• Opening with a lighter, culture-heavy segment, the hosts discuss the national frenzy around Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's engagement.
• Krystal and Ryan joke about media over-coverage and the way celebrities—like Swift and Blake Lively—weaponize tabloid media to control narratives and manage public image.
• They highlight the obsessive nature of the coverage ("Any guys that are upset about that are fooling themselves" – Ryan Grim [08:07]) and note the blurred lines between American pop culture and politics.
• A viral right-wing reaction is played from Charlie Kirk, who expresses hope that marriage will "conservatize" Swift, invoking biblical language around "wifely submission" ([10:05]). Krystal and Ryan dissect and lightly mock this perspective, expanding on how marital status and childlessness are often weaponized in cultural commentary.

Quote:
“I hope that America’s biggest pop star marrying the pharmaceutical spokesperson ends up conservatizing them.” — Charlie Kirk ([10:34])

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2. Trump’s Push to Nationalize the Defense Industry and Authoritarian Economic Policy

Segment Start: [16:03]

• The hosts deep-dive into Trump administration moves foreshadowing a de facto sovereign wealth fund, as captured by a Howard Lutnick interview (“Lockheed Martin makes 97% of their revenue from the US government. They are basically an arm of the US government.” – Howard Lutnick [16:33]).
• Krystal frames these moves as a radical new industrial policy, warning of "crony capitalism" and the creeping centralization of economic power ([19:00]).
• Ryan and Krystal draw explicit contrasts between U.S., UK, and Chinese models of industrial intervention, reflecting both unease with and acceptance of the inevitable direction of government-driven capital allocation.

Quote:
“If it’s crony capitalism, make it actual strategic crony capitalism, where you’re putting the cronies in place and you’re developing your industrial policy from the top down rather than just enriching people.” — Ryan Grim ([19:00])

• The debate moves to the limits of Congress, the rise of executive action ("We don't legislate anymore ... you end up with a strong man in power." – Krystal Ball [25:51]), and broader implications for U.S. governance.

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3. Trump’s Campaign to Seize Control of the Federal Reserve

Segment Start: [30:59]

• The crew reports on Trump’s attempts to restructure Federal Reserve leadership by pushing out Lisa Cook, potentially giving him an outright majority of “pro-Trump doves.”
• Legal and constitutional questions swirl—Krystal references the New Deal-era “Humphrey’s Executor” case and notes that Trump's approach to executive power outpaces previous Republican administrations ([35:00]).
• Ryan predicts the Supreme Court will split along lines more loyal to “Reagan-era business conservatism” than to Trump’s populism, suggesting business interests will ultimately check some of Trump’s more radical moves ([36:28]).

Quote:
“My theory of the court has always been that it is a radical, far right wing court, but it has deep ties with the Reagan business wing ... and therefore will push back on Trump’s more populist efforts.” — Ryan Grim ([36:28])

• The segment touches on political corruption, with a bracing discussion of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s ethical lapses ([40:21]).

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4. Alex Jones, Trump’s Health, and Conservative Conspiracies

Segment Start: [46:16]

• Amid viral images of Trump with bruised hands and swollen ankles, Alex Jones delivers an unusually anxious warning about Trump’s physical decline, speculating about imminent collapse ([47:38]).
• The hosts discuss the White House's attempt to downplay Trump’s health problems, presenting explanations for hand bruising and leg swelling as side effects of aspirin and chronic venous insufficiency ([49:13]).
• They analyze the rising credibility of Alex Jones on the right (“Everything Alex Jones claims comes true, basically. Right, like that's the meme.” – Krystal [51:03]), while playing a viral “doctorate in my field” video diagnosing Trump from afar ([53:16]).
• The conversation lands on Trump’s paradoxical vitality: unable to age or fade so long as attention remains fixed on him (“Trump’s life force is attention ... I find it very hard to believe that whatever diseases he has ... can overcome the power of that force.” – Ryan Grim [56:25]).

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5. Charlemagne’s ‘AIPAC Shakur’ Nickname for Hakeem Jeffries & Democratic Party Fractures Over Israel

Segment Start: [58:06]

• The hosts play a viral segment in which Charlemagne tha God dubs House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries "AIPAC Shakur," a stinging reference to perceived subordination to pro-Israel interests ([58:30]).
• Discussion spotlights Jeffries’ lack of independence (“Hakeem is a puppet ... Hakeem’s not doing anything if Schumer doesn’t tell him to do it.” – Charlemagne [58:56]).
• They unpack the Democratic Party’s failure to pass even limited measures supporting Palestinian recognition and cutting arms to Israel, revealing AIPAC’s ongoing influence.
• Ryan describes the DNC’s inflexibility and Democratic Majority for Israel's coordinated message: "Passing this resolution would have been a gift to Republicans ... rewarded Hamas brutality..." ([60:42]).
• The episode relays the flood of campaign money from AIPAC and aligned interests, including the defeat of Cori Bush by Wesley Bell and the latter’s unapologetic acceptance of massive outside funding ([65:14]).

Quote:
“If you want representation that’s going to represent your district, those people can’t just go in there with empty pockets and just hopes and dreams ... We got to understand there’s a game being played.” — Wesley Bell ([66:13])

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6. Benjamin Netanyahu’s Right-Wing Podcast Tour & Gaza Reporting

Segment Start: [73:28]

• Netanyahu appears on Patrick Bet-David’s podcast, refuting claims that “Israel owns America” and trying to shore up his right-wing American audience by linking himself to Trump and positioning Biden as adversarial ([74:38]).
• The hosts discuss Netanyahu’s strategy of courting “bro” podcast audiences and attempting to tie his political fate to Republican rather than Democratic power, while the situation in Gaza continues deteriorating ([77:52]).
• Ryan and Krystal integrate chilling reporting from Gaza—describing Israel’s bomb-laden robots used in city clearing operations and the targeted killing of journalists and first responders ([79:26]–[89:13]).
• They reveal verification from multiple sources, including evidence that international doctors were ordered out of a hospital by a suspiciously timed "mandatory" training before an airstrike—a sign of calculated avoidance of foreign casualties ([87:24]).

Quote:
"We need to maintain our capacity to be shocked ... If this isn’t shocking to us, then it just becomes normalized, and they won't even bother offering explanations." — Ryan Grim ([95:02])

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7. Media Manipulation & the Gaza Narrative

Segment Start: [89:13]

• The episode reviews how Israeli and Western outlets justified the targeting of a Gaza hospital, focusing on a "Hamas camera" that was in fact a Reuters broadcast unit ([89:46]).
• The hosts highlight the extent to which even major news agencies capitulate to official narratives, with Reuters running a headline essentially branding its own murdered cameraman as a “Hamas” operative ([94:59]).

Quote:
“Reuters is willing to call itself Hamas because Israel says so, knowing full well that it was their camera and their cameraman that they attacked ... I don’t know what more capitulation you could have than to literally call yourself Hamas as Reuters.” — Ryan Grim ([95:02])

• Krystal and Ryan also discuss the Free Press controversy over contextual reporting, pointing out how attempts to “add context” to Palestinian suffering only further expose the horrors of the situation ([97:53]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Cultural-Political Segue:
  “Taylor Swift’s been the Dallas Cowboys of dating.” — Ryan Grim ([09:13])

• On Trump’s Economic Moves:
  “You end up then with a strong man in power. … That’s basically, I’m not saying … it’s authoritarian.” — Krystal Ball ([25:51])

• On the Federal Reserve:
  “He wants to take control of the Fed so that he can do his tariff policy and then monkey with interest rates at the same time.” — Ryan Grim ([34:22])

• On American Populism vs. Business Class:
  “Their Reagan instincts will take over and be like, we don’t actually want this much of a populist revolution …” — Ryan Grim ([36:28])

• On Journalist Killings in Gaza:
  “They killed a Reuters cameraman and then said it was Hamas. They didn’t even say he was Hamas; they said the camera was Hamas. … I don’t know what more capitulation you could have.” — Ryan Grim ([95:02])

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Timestamps – Key Segments

• [07:05] – Taylor Swift engagement, media control, and Charlie Kirk’s take
• [16:03] – Trump’s defense nationalization push and global comparisons
• [30:59] – Federal Reserve shakeup, legal/constitutional implications, SCOTUS predictions
• [46:16] – Trump health rumors, Alex Jones alarms, White House spin, and viral ‘doctor’ clip
• [58:06] – ‘AIPAC Shakur’ nickname, Democratic fractures over Israel
• [73:28] – Netanyahu’s Bet-David interview, strategy with right-wing media
• [79:26] – Reporting from Gaza: bombing methods, precautions, and media narratives
• [89:13] – Media manipulation: hospital bombing, Reuters, and Free Press context saga

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Overall Tone and Takeaway

This episode is quintessential Breaking Points: skeptical, irreverent, sometimes darkly funny, mixing sharp cultural takes with serious investigative work. The hosts strike a balance between critique and reportorial detachment, calling out hypocrisy from all political sides as the U.S. veers into a new era of power consolidation and cynicism, both domestically and in its foreign policy. The message is clear—remain alert, remain shocked, and demand more from your leaders and media.

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For full interviews, reporting, and context, visit breakingpoints.com.

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Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iheart podcast.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it.

[Ryan Grim]

And the best way to start is together. Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Krystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sager and Crystal here.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for.

[Krystal Ball]

The future of this show. This is the only place where you.

[Ryan Grim]

Can find honest perspectives from the left.

[Krystal Ball]

And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access.

[Ryan Grim]

To our full shows.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we.

[Ryan Grim]

Hope to see [e-mail] Good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, how you doing?

[Krystal Ball]

Good. We've got two of the most famous Taylors to cover on the show today.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right. Taylor Lorenz and the other one that Swift. Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift, that's right. We were going to lead the show, of course, with the biggest news in the country, which is that Cracker Barrel is going back to its original logo.

[Krystal Ball]

And they called the White House and.

[Ryan Grim]

Called the White House. And we're all happy about this. Right. This is a big win for the country.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a big win for me. Personally, I prefer the old Cracker Barrel, but I'm not sure that it warranted the President's attention.

[Ryan Grim]

But then that got pushed aside because bigger news.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. You can't waste oxygen on Cracker Barrel when Taylor Swift's getting engaged.

[Ryan Grim]

Taylor Swift is getting engaged.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. In all honesty, we have a massive show today. If you look at the bottom bar and you're watching this. Yes, that is accurate. We have that many blocks to get through. We did sort of twist producer Griffin's arm to let us talk about the Taylor Swift engagement because Ryan was checking his DMs last night and the people weren't amazing.

[Ryan Grim]

People want to know what Emily thinks about Taylor Swift and your background is in like culture and how this is supposed to be important stuff and tells us things about things.

[Krystal Ball]

I've spilled a lot of.

[Ryan Grim]

So what's your take here? We gotta get to Charlie Kirk. Do you wanna do that first?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, let's get to the intro to the show.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, okay. People can just guess. They can guess. It's basically the same show that we do every day.

[Krystal Ball]

That's true. Howard Lutnick back on the circuit talking about China, talking about university and university grants. Right. Research grants, all of that. And that comes on the heels of the Fed. He's talking about intel, very uncertain economic climate to say the least. So we'll get into updates on that. We're going to talk a little bit about Alex Jones thinking Donald Trump is in a seriously bad state health wise. And you know what?

[Ryan Grim]

He actually know what Alex Jones thinks here.

[Krystal Ball]

It's important to know what Alex Jones thinks. But Trump obviously has been visibly bruised and so we're going to break all of the information that we have on that down. Ryan, we're talking about Wesley Bell and Israel's influence in American politics. We have a new nickname for Hakeem Jeffries from Charlemagne, who called it.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, boy. Called him Aipac Shakur.

[Krystal Ball]

Apac Shakur.

[Ryan Grim]

That's one's gonna leave a mark.

[Krystal Ball]

It hurts. It autocorrected from producer Griffin to Apac Shakura, which I thought was pretty good, too.

[Ryan Grim]

Apac Shakur is just brutal.

[Krystal Ball]

It's brutal. And, Ryan, you're also walking us through some new reporting on money.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. In Maine. So Graham Platner will be here tomorrow. He's the now Bernie endorsed working class oysterman running for Senate in Maine in the Democratic primary. There is an existing candidate in that race who has already raised $2 million. I'm going to help you figure out how it is he raised $2 million this quickly. It's quite an incredible story.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. And then Taylor Lorenz will be with us for, I think, what's definitely going to be a debate about cell phones in high schools. It's back to school season. So a lot of kids have new cell phone bans or yonder pouches that they're walking into school with this year, but other people, like your kids, are used to it at this point, Right?

[Ryan Grim]

Well, when my daughter found out that I would be arguing for the ban on phones in schools, she basically wanted to disown me.

[Krystal Ball]

She disowned you? What's wrong with you? Which is actually great.

[Ryan Grim]

You're gonna get death threats.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a good argument.

[Ryan Grim]

I was like, this is gonna be the thing.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Of all of the things she's, like, genuinely worried now. It wasn't before. Now she's like, wow, okay.

[Krystal Ball]

But once again, that is an argument.

[Ryan Grim]

And she's not helping me out. If it comes to it, you're on your own.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes. And, Ryan, you have some new reporting on Serbia that we're going to be sharing with the audience as well.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. And drop site report from on the ground there.

[Krystal Ball]

And as a reminder, breakingpoints.com that's where you can go to get a subscription. We also want to make sure we give a shout out to intern mj, who's been super helpful and just. We're very grateful to MJ for all of her help.

[Ryan Grim]

Intern mj, she's been helping out dropsite as well. So it's. It helps to, like, get the drop site reporting that we've been doing and kind of help. Help fuel the reporting in the program here.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, no, the original reporting is. Yeah, it's. It's super helpful. So thank you, mj. Now, without further, further ado, let's get into the celebration, the nationwide celebration over the Taylor Swift Travis Kelce engagement.

[Ryan Grim]

And the first question that people had for you was, will Blake Lively be invited to the Taylor Swift Trevor Kelsey Welding wedding?

[Krystal Ball]

We all know the answer to that, and it's absolutely not. Barring some unforeseen reconciliation, Blake Lively will not be at that wedding. Now, the Blake Lively story. If you haven't been following the Taylor Swift Blake Lively feud, it's actually a very interesting story of how tabloid reporters are used to manipulate narratives and how those can have sweeping.

[Ryan Grim]

You can't trust tabloid reporters now.

[Krystal Ball]

You can't trust the tabloid.

[Ryan Grim]

Who can you trust?

[Krystal Ball]

You can't trust Blake Lively either.

[Ryan Grim]

Can't trust Blakely.

[Krystal Ball]

That's hard for people to wrap their heads around. Can't trust Blake Lively, apparently. But anyway, it's an interesting story of how celebrities can weaponize the media to protect their bottom lines or pad their bottom lines. But Taylor Swift, America's sweetheart. I usually say that sarcastically. I think it's probably accurate in this case. She's upset some men by showing up at NFL games. But, Ryan, you've been okay with it.

[Ryan Grim]

Any guys that are upset about that are fooling themselves.

[Krystal Ball]

I will say, when she first started going to the Chiefs games, they cut away to her so much that it did become laughable.

[Ryan Grim]

That's the NF that's on the NFL.

[Krystal Ball]

It was pretty funny.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

It was not Taylor's fault.

[Ryan Grim]

If I went to a game and they cut away to me every, like, five seconds, people would rightly be upset, but not at me. Yeah, that's not my fault. Just too magnetic.

[Krystal Ball]

You're too magnetic now. Most people were busy. I'm telling you, Instagram last night, I am in. Taylor Swift's, like, target demographic came out when I was a teenager. All of that. Like, she was huge when I was a teenager. Her music started coming out when I was a teenager. And my Instagram last night was full of people who genuinely were reposting this Instagram. Like, it was one of their friends who had just gotten engaged. It was like, I'm clicking through and, like, another tail, another Taylor. It was just like, everyone's best friend.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, people have been rooting for her. They've been rooting for her for, like, it's like if the Dallas Cowboys made it to the super bowl, but rooting for them for decades. No, I mean, it's fan.

[Krystal Ball]

I wouldn't be rooting for them. But I was gonna say Texans you're an Eagles fan.

[Ryan Grim]

But that's. But that's how miserable her experience has been. She's basically been the Dallas Cowboys of dating.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, so, geez, this is where it gets. This is where the conversation becomes political in a way. And I've written a ton about Taylor Swift over the years, but most people were wishing Taylor Swift well. Most people have been wishing Taylor Swift well. This is not a particularly controversial couple. I think everybody likes the pairing of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. They seem to be very happy together. They did their podcast a couple of weeks ago and seem to be very happy together. But Charlie Kirk. Enter Charlie Kirk, who had some thoughts yesterday. Even though lots of people on the right saying, Taylor, happy for you. Lots of people on the left saying, Taylor, happy for you. The President of the United States said that he was happy for her. Here's what Charlie Kirk had to say.

[Ryan Grim]

But maybe one of the reasons why Taylor Swift has been so just kind of annoyingly liberal over the last couple of years is that she's not yet married and she doesn't have children. I say this non sarcastically. I say this as a husband and a father. Having children changes you. Getting married changes you. And I hope that America's biggest pop star marrying the pharmaceutical spokesperson ends up conservatizing them. Taylor Swift might de. Radicalize herself, engage in reality more, and get outside of the abstract clouds. Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, right. The camera should really be on Ryan. He's. He's losing it right now. But when he. Whenever you do the Ephesians 5 verse, submit to your husband and don't continue.

[Ryan Grim]

What's after that?

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, it says, wives, submit to your husbands. Submit yourselves to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now, as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the Word, and present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. I had to have that one ready to go, Ryan, because if you don't complete the verse, it's not that the first part is wrong. It is that the implication is incomplete and the full verse is Basically was very radical at the time. It was very radical in Rome, is that it's a relationship of equals. There is no Jew or Greek or male or female. There is only one. I don't even know why I'm getting into this in the Taylor Swift segment.

[Ryan Grim]

Why am I doing it? Yeah, I like that line. There's no male or female, no Jew or Greek, gentile or Greek or whatever. Yeah, hey, that's a good line. But Charlie Kirk, read submit to your wife and just put the book down. He's like, this is good.

[Krystal Ball]

What's the message to Travis? I'm sure Charlie would endorse the rest of the verse, but anytime it's used without the rest of it, it's a little bit of a red flag. Now that is the.

[Ryan Grim]

It's good to know which gospels have been endorsed by Charlie.

[Krystal Ball]

You gotta keep your track here now. But that is the sort of question about Taylor Swift. Now we could do. I think Ryan, I think you and I could probably go for a couple of hours on the question of whether being unmarried and childless into your 30s and is a liberalizing force. There's some social science evidence that suggests that's the case. And people could understand, by the way, why that would be the case. So it's not an insane point. And I think Taylor Swift has been fairly open about, as you pointed out earlier in the segment, being miserable. I don't think she's about to be conservatized by burying Travis Kelsey, though.

[Ryan Grim]

Hey, that's why we have this news program. We can follow this developing story for years to come. And we can. And we'll report on those developments.

[Krystal Ball]

I was gonna say we were talking about Drop site's original reporting earlier, but this is a glaring hole in dropsite.

[Ryan Grim]

MJ's gonna get on it.

[Krystal Ball]

Fantastic.

[Saagar Enjeti]

This Labor Day, say goodbye to spills, stains and overpriced furniture with washablesofas.com featuring Annabe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets with budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $6.99, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anibe's Pet friendly stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic, high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your life now through Labor Day. Get up to 60% off site wide. @washablesofas.com every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees, every penny back. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Good morning.

[Ryan Grim]

Welcome to today. From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here to help you it all along as the forecast calls for football all across the country. Blockbuster stars, live concerts, and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

[Ryan Grim]

Watch the Today show Weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

Let's move on to the economy, the second most important story. Well, the third most important story. First is Cracker Barrel, Taylor Swift. And then we have the economy. So Howard Lutnick was, he's, he's like been, he's always on every show it.

[Ryan Grim]

Seems like, but he loves it.

[Krystal Ball]

He's been on every, every show over the last couple of days in the wake of the intel deal. So let's start off with this clip of Howard Lutnick talking about how the intel deal could potentially spiral into something else in the defense industry. Here's a one.

[Ryan Grim]

Didn't the U.S. government say, you know what? We use Palantir services. We would like a piece of Palantir we use Boeing services. We would like a piece of Boeing. There are a lot of businesses that do business with the U.S. government that benefit by doing business with the U.S. government. Where, again, I guess the question is, where's the line? Oh, there's a monstrous discussion about defense. I mean, Lockheed Martin makes 97% of their revenue from the US government. They are basically an arm of the US government. They make exquisite munitions. I mean, amazing things that can knock a missile out of the air when it's coming towards you. But what's the economics of that? I'm going to leave that to my Secretary of Defense and the Deputy Secretary of Defense. These guys are on it and they're thinking about it. But I tell you what, there's a lot of talking that needs to be had about how do we finance our munitions acquisitions. I think a lot of that is talking. And now you have the right people in the jobs and Donald Trump at the head.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, Ryan, this, I think is well worth considering in the context of the Trump administration right now trying to build towards a sovereign wealth fund. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, he said, they said this is. This is a step toward a sovereign wealth fund.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. And so that's. I mean, actually, Andrew Ross Sorkin's question about Palantir, it's kind of like, it does sound. I mean, it's just abnormal for the United States. And so his question being like, this is ludicrous, may not look so ludicrous in a few years when we look back and we're like, well, that was the beginning of the sovereign wealth fund.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. Yeah. You have Sorkin there, who, who's putting this out there in a way that he. Where he's saying, isn't this going to sound absurd to everybody?

[Krystal Ball]

Exactly.

[Ryan Grim]

And Howard Lutnick's like, yeah, actually, good point. Why are all of these people getting fantastically rich from Lockheed? And that's just not just Lockheed. All of the parasites around Lockheed, all of Northern Virginia stretching for miles.

[Krystal Ball]

Except he doesn't really even use the word parasites. He's acting now like it's. But that's the thing, right? Like, if you think it is a parasitic relationship, then you can either go in one of two directions. You can try to say that this is going to be a parasitic relationship that is also synergistic and nationalized to some degree, or you can say this is crony capitalism.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, if it's crony capitalism, make it actual strategic crony capitalism, where you're putting the cronies in place and you're developing your industrial policy from the top down rather than just enriching people. Sager has been on a roll on Twitter lately. Comrade and Judy, go check out brother Sager's response to this. He's pointed out that say Intel's the New York Stock Exchange is way up in the last 20 years, China's is not. Yet China has developed an actual kind of economy and manufacturing base. And he points to intel stock which is like doubled in the last 15 years or whatever, while intel itself is hollowed out. We have a system that extracts wealth from our economy to the rich and to financialization. What Sager, myself, Howard Lutnick and President Xi want to see is an economy that creates wealth for the society itself.

[Krystal Ball]

On that point about Chairman Xi, apparently your comrade, let's roll a two because Howard Lutnick talked about China as well.

[Ryan Grim]

Mr. Secretary, I'm really interested in how you personally would see it if another country did something of this ilk back because I know how much you don't like non tariff barriers. You mean like China does it every day? Yeah, China does it every single day. That's exactly what I want to ask about because I totally get that perspective on China and it's obviously led to so much of the last year's policy towards China in the last decade since President Trump came in. But what about from a UK perspective? What if the UK started to take stakes and domestic companies that kind of act as a China like approach to this? No, no, but does that count as a non parent? I mean you don't, you're not really thinking about the fact that the UK government nationalized British Steel a couple of months ago. Yeah. Really? No, no. But I'm genuinely asking about that. Do we get punished for that now? Do we deserve to be? No, you don't get punished for it because what they did is, what happened is a Chinese company bought British steel, put British steel out of business and was just importing subsidized Chinese steel, put the British steel industry out of business. And the British figured out, along with the Trump administration, teaching them that you need steel to be a real country to be able to defend yourself. And the British figured that out. They nationalized British steel. And now because they nationalize British steel, America can do a deal with Britain on steel because otherwise we would just be inviting the Chinese in. Imagine British steel was really Chinese steel.

[Krystal Ball]

Imran, there are no libertarians on the show, so we can treat the argument as foolish as it actually is. Because you can't have national defense without industrial policy, without National. Yeah, you can't actually have a military without industrial. You can't have a strong military without industrial policy. And so it's obvious. And the point Howard Lutnick is making is also obvious. And what the Trump administration is doing right now is just sort of putting the lie to all of the rights pretenses for years, and not just the rights or the center. Centrist Democrats as well, that this is some type of like efficient free market middle ground. Who's been calling this capitalism with American characteristics? I forget who coined that, obviously, in reference to socialism with Chinese characteristics, which is what Xi Jinping refers to the Chinese system as. But I don't understand the moral panic because this is not worse than the status quo. Like, that's, that's my perspective. I think it comes with all kinds of disadvantages and baggage, but the status quo does as well. So it's like.

[Ryan Grim]

Right, well, you understand the moral panic.

[Krystal Ball]

It's not even that different.

[Ryan Grim]

It's not coming for you, it's coming for that guy.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Guys who wear cufflinks on a Tuesday and sit on CNBC in their starched white shirts as avatars for this industry, Wall street, that has spent the last 40 years hollowing out the country. It was so instructive the way he said, but why should we be punished for this? What he wants is to be able to continue to hollow out our economy, put a giant funnel into the economy, suck all the wealth out of it, distribute it up to the very top, wear cufflinks on a Tuesday, watch the standard of living of the middle class, erode, destroy unions. That was the goal. But then after that, they went just hog wild afterwards saying, why should we be punished for this? Like, why do you think you should be punished for this? Like, what you represent should not exist.

[Krystal Ball]

But I don't even know to what extent this will actually be punishing them.

[Ryan Grim]

Because, well, it's punishing them in the sense that they don't get to commit crimes against the American people forever. They might have to actually make something that makes the country and the world a better place.

[Krystal Ball]

I hope so. But it's just also like a 10%.

[Ryan Grim]

And they would see that. Like, they would definitely see that as a punishment. Now we can set aside, like, because.

[Krystal Ball]

It takes away money from the hedge funds that need to be used to make us all better. Right. You need to have that little extra money to trade on and put it into the hedge funds and have some fun with.

[Ryan Grim]

And I don't want to stand in the way of Comrade Trump when He's like, on his way to nationalizing the economy here. But I would point out, like, if you want to share on the upside of corporate America's wealth creation for itself, the way to do that is you tax them when they actually make income. Like, you actually tax them. Buying 10% or just taking 10% of intel without taking any controlling share of it is kind of a dead end because it's like, okay, what are you going to do with that 10%? Well, that's why I think, let's say intel doubles in another five years. Now, your 10% that you had is now worth, you know, was worth 10 billion. Now it's worth 20 billion. You sell it like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing with this 10%? The point of, you know, government involvement with these companies and when it comes to China or the UK or anywhere else is to tell them what to do, direct them. Like, hey, we think actually it would be good if we made these chips somewhere in the country. So we're going to, as a policy, tell the companies that we're involved with go do that. That's the point. Not. So your portfolio goes up because then you have the problem. Well, then what?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, 100%.

[Ryan Grim]

Sell it. Just go on Ameritrade and sell your shares. Is Trump day trading intel shares?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. So I see this as a really pathetic statement on Congress and our ability to make any law. Like, the conservative movement's consensus on what tax policy should look like is not what any of the Republican tax bills from 2017 to the one big beautiful bill have looked like. It's the one big beautiful bill is not what the American people would say they want their tax policy to look like. And there's actually a way that you can write tax policy without taking a 10% stake in intel and a board seat that makes Intel a better company. You can close myriad tax loopholes. You can do all kinds of different things, carrots and sticks to make Intel a better company. But we don't legislate anymore. Like, we actually do not legislate anything that isn't a gargantuan, you know, omnibus. So we have no smart policies. And you end up then with a strong man in power. And that's basically like, I'm not saying.

[Ryan Grim]

My only disagreement, it's authoritarian.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm just saying that it's like, because we are now so desperate to have companies like intel that are getting the privileges of incorporation in the United States and all kinds of benefits from the taxpayers, because we can't even have them operating in a basically moral way. We have to try to force them through executive authority, which is, I mean that's where we are.

[Ryan Grim]

My disagreement there would be that the inflation Reduction act was actual industrial policy. It's said. And they called it this just to satisfy Mansion. It was basically.

[Krystal Ball]

I just, I agree.

[Ryan Grim]

The clean energy bill.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And it said we as a country believe that going forward we need to move away from fossil fuels and we need to pivot to clean energy. And, and we need a lot of energy. And so we need to invest in transmission, we need to invest in move, you know, moving the energy from where it's produced to where it's then consumed. And we need to innovate in how we, we create that energy. And that was basically uprooted by Trump.

[Krystal Ball]

But that was also a giant. I mean that bill was a hulking mess too. And some parts of it had to be like a lot of the stuff made it hard for people who were trying to build factories because there was all kinds of like, there's, I think a pretty legitimate abundance argument about some parts of that bill. But either way, yes, I agree that that was industrial policy and I think there was a little bit of industrial policy in the one big beautiful bill too.

[Ryan Grim]

There is, yeah. There's attempts at it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Grim]

Good morning, welcome to Today. From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here here to help you take it all along as the forecast calls for football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

[Ryan Grim]

Watch the Today show Weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Grim]

Meanwhile, this all goes hand in hand with Trump's continued push to take over the Federal Reserve. You put up a four here. Breaking points Talked about this earlier this week. This is the biggest, probably the biggest news in the country at the moment. Lisa Cook is a member of the Board of Governors and Trump wants to not just replace Powell when his term is up later this year, but to have a majority of basically pro Trump doves. And in order to do that, he needs to get Lisa Cook out of the way. Lisa Cook has last night said she's going to sue to keep her position, arguing that Trump doesn't have the power to remove her for policy reasons. We all know that Trump is removing her for policy reasons because he wants to take control of the Federal Reserve. They combed through her records to try to find some justification for that.

[Krystal Ball]

I asked, I actually reached out to Bill Pulte's office yesterday to ask how they stumbled upon the mortgage records because Georgetown professor wrote an interesting blog about how in order to do that, you're basically, it's not like you're using the federal government to dig up the records. It wasn't as though somebody dropped them.

[Ryan Grim]

In the wall fhf. Right. There is a reasonable case to be made that Pulte himself broke the law. And there's privacy records around what executives at the FHA FA are able to look at when it comes to Americans personal data. If the FBI or let's say, you know, Atlanta Police, which is where one of her places was Condo, wants to, you know, gets a tip on some mortgage fraud. Then there are ways that we investigate mortgage fraud. You can do, you can, you know, file a subpoena. Subpoena, you can get a warrant, you can go, you know, look into this stuff. You're like, wait, I don't think I've ever seen a criminal referral from the FHFA before. Yeah, that's odd. I'm sure, I'm sure this is just a run of the mill criminal case going on. Oh, they went fishing through all of Lisa Cook's information. Yeah. And they found, if people are not familiar, that she bought a, bought a place in 2021 and called it her primary residence in Michigan or wherever it was. Two weeks later bought another one, a condo, and also called her primary residence, which meant that she got a lower interest rate on one of them than she would have gotten if she would have called it her like vacation condo. It's pretty now 2021, by the way. Last point. Interest rates were like zero.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So like the difference between why bother what she was going to pay as a vacation home versus a primary with her income and her like you're going to get a, especially in 2021, you're getting a 2 something interest rate no matter what. So did she corruptly save a few hundred dollars a year on one of those mortgages? Probably, yeah. I mean, is it corrupt? Looks that way, yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it does.

[Ryan Grim]

What about if it's two hour parking and you park for four and you know you did, but you don't pay. I mean that's, that's corrupt.

[Krystal Ball]

It's corrupt. It's corrupt. If you sit on, if you're a governor on Federal Reserve Board, like, that's like.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And if, if this emerged any other way, like, you know what, hey, she should suffer the consequences of her actions, whatever those would be. But it emerged because he wants to take control of the Fed so that he can personally so that he can do his tariff policy and then monkey with interest rates at the same time to try to balance that out, which you could argue the President should be able to do. And we shouldn't have these like technocrats over there, right?

[Krystal Ball]

No, I mean, controlling this So I think that's a good point.

[Ryan Grim]

That's a separate argument. In some ways.

[Krystal Ball]

It's obviously true. The administration or that Donald Trump himself wants a full takeover of the Federal Reserve. So this would give him, if his nominees are confirmed, four out of the seven seats he has, trying to fast track the man who's already been nominated for the third seat to get him confirmed quickly and is mulling right now whether to nominate someone to put in Lisa Cook's place right away, even though this is going to be tied up in the courts, maybe kicked actually to the Supreme Court. And actually, Ryan, you'll love this could put Humphrey's executor back in the spotlight because this is like actually the history of Humphreys executor playing out the question of unitary executive theory that the Trump administration, or the theory that the Trump administration has of what executive power should look like is more in line with Franklin Delano Roosevelt than it is with basically any other, certainly any other Republican president. But that's what the question is, whether this is truly independent. Is it different from some of the other independent agencies that the Trump administration has been saying should be brought to heel by a president, whether they're Republican or Democrat? Is it different because it's the Federal Reserve? That's something that's also been argued in the courts. So this is a really significant move because it is going to test some fundamental questions. And as we look back on the first seven months of the Trump administration, seven and a half months of the Trump administration, it is remarkable how many fundamental questions of governance are being kicked to the Supreme Court for, like, foundational constitutional tests.

[Ryan Grim]

And it's going to test my theory of the court. I'm curious what you think will happen, because my theory of the court has always been that it is a radical, far right wing court, but it has deep ties with the Reagan business wing.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep.

[Ryan Grim]

Of the Republican coalition and therefore will push back on Trump's more populist efforts when it comes to undermining what they see as the integrity of the kind of neoliberal economy. And this goes right to it. You can put up a five markets already. So on the one hand, markets are responding in a schizophrenic way because on the one hand they're like, whoa, this could mean even deeper interest rate cuts, which could mean asset price bubbles. And so therefore we need to buy. On the other hand, it looks like Argentina and Turkey models are being applied here in the United States, which means we're going to get runaway inflation. And so the 10 year note plummeted, which means interest rates that the US has to pay for, for its debt went up significantly around these inflation concerns. Because the idea is that whether it's Bernie Sanders or Trump or whoever, if they control interest rates, then one of the checks on what they can do, the bond market, is not as immediate a concern. So if Trump is doing tariff policy and it's destroying the economy, he can just dial down, he can just print a whole lot of money basically, to try to paper over, literally paper over the problems that his policies are creating. And so then the thinking from Wall street is, well, then they're going to do a lot of these problematic things. They're going to bust all the budgets. In the short term, they'll cover it up by printing money. And in the long term, you'll get inflation like in Argentina or Turkey or whatever else. And so that's what's driving the other Wall street moves. But they're still, they're sort of confused. So the idea, my idea of the court would be that their Reagan instincts will take over and be like, we don't actually want this much of a populist revolution to the point where the president is just setting interest rates. What's your read on the court? You know these jackals better than I do.

[Krystal Ball]

I think your read is correct on that. It would be. It's not just a Reagan instinct necessarily. It's also, I mean, you're looking at the full picture of the administration's moves here. I'm curious how the process question plays into this because I referenced earlier the Georgetown law professor Adam Levitin, who wrote a blog post that said, quote, the only way anyone would have noticed a problem with Cook's loan application is that Pulte, as head of fhafa, directed Fannie or Fetty to put Fannie or Freddie to pull her application. And that is unheard of. Does that also factor in? And by the way, I sent that to the FHFA and asked if that was true. Didn't get a response back. But I'm curious if that plays into the broader question of how this played out legally. Is there a legal. If you're a cop and you don't read the Miranda rights, you got a problem in your prosecution. Is there a question of how all of this happened? That would also kick in. So somebody even like Justice Alito is uncomfortable with the decision? I don't know. But I think your instinct is correct, that it wouldn't necessarily even just be a Reagan instinct so much as a normie instinct. I don't know if that makes sense.

[Ryan Grim]

But just discomfort with them. Right. They're normies, too. Yeah. Right. And they're also probably like, ooh, when I bought that boat, what did I put down as my income?

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, am I in trouble now, too?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, and there's this divide that has never been.

[Ryan Grim]

Clarence Thomas is still in the Supreme Court.

[Krystal Ball]

Clarence Thomas still there, just flagrantly corrupt. Oh, come on.

[Ryan Grim]

Are you joking? Like, the guy. He forgot to disclose, like, enormous amounts of bribes, and his, like, rich friend bought his. Bought his, like, mom's house. Next to say, like, I agree all.

[Krystal Ball]

Of that was bad. Yeah, I mean, I agree all of that was bad. I don't think it was, like, evidence of significant corruption. He was. If you're taking gifts, they're all vacationing with rich people. And the RV loan, I'll say was bad. The forgiven RV loan was. That was bad.

[Ryan Grim]

All bad stuff.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Well, I think. I mean, everyone in general, just friends.

[Ryan Grim]

Had nothing to do with the fact that he's a Supreme Court justice. It's very clear. As soon as he said that he was broke and was thinking about retiring, and they're like, oh, my God, we're going to lose this seat. The money started flowing to him. That's the timeline. He wrote a letter to Congress saying Supreme Court justices aren't paid enough. I can't keep ginny in the RVs that she needs.

[Krystal Ball]

This was, like, 15 years.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Way back.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So he said this to Congressional Republicans, you need to give more money to Supreme Court justices. Not fair, or I'm going to quit. Basically, that was the message of the letter that he sent out.

[Krystal Ball]

I think he's probably right about Supreme Court justices, by the way.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. But they found another way to pay him.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

The money just started flowing in all of a sudden, not so he would rule any differently, but so that he would stay on the bench. So anyway, yeah, that's a good point.

[Krystal Ball]

But I think the primary narrative is that he's being bribed by, like, Harlan Crowe to rule differently in the court.

[Ryan Grim]

And I think the only reason he was bribed to stay on the court, the reason. Why.

[Krystal Ball]

Don't quit, Clarence. We'll take care of you because they agree. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

We'll hit you whatever RV she wants.

[Krystal Ball]

Ideological compatriots.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. And the RV loan was. I think the last part of it was forgiven. Something like that. Yeah. So, anyway, all that is to say, Clarence Thomas actually might be the interesting one on this question, because what I was just about to say was the salience of the unitary executive theory hasn't been strong in the conservative movement for a long time because you have this group of people who really wants to be critical of fdr and the the line of the conservative movement has been FDR governed like a king. But then there are same thing with Obama. And then there's this also argument that's existed since Nixon that the president should have power over the sort of deep state executive agencies. And those two things are kind of in conflict. And I'm actually curious how Clarence Thomas would rule on that because there is no consensus among the Reaganite Federalist Society world on that MAGA tends to be more fdr, obviously more pro governing like FDR than old school Republicans. But at the same time it's an argument that old school Republicans could get behind too, because some of them went through it with Nixon.

[Ryan Grim]

Now we were going to talk briefly about this crazy person in the White House talking about how Trump gas is under $2 in some places. But like why show's getting tight. Let's move on to his cankles.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, let's. Well, let's say Trump did say gas was below $2. Gas buddy says we're not seeing any stations reported to us below $2 a gallon. Of course not.

[Ryan Grim]

No, no, nobody's, nobody's saying that.

[Krystal Ball]

So yes. Anyway, let's move on then to what did you say is cankles Cankles this.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Grim]

Welcome to Today from back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's it's a new season and every morning we're here to help you take it all on as the forecast calls for football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts, and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

[Ryan Grim]

Watch the Today show Weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Happy dance. Empty bowl, tail in overdrive. That's the Ollie Effect. Fresh human grade dog food your pup will love. Ollie delivers clean nutrition in five delicious recipes made with real ingredients in the US no fillers, no preservatives, just real food that supports your dog's health from the inside out. Start with a quick 30 second [e-mail] gopup to create a personalized meal plan based on your dog's age, weight, activity level and health goals. New subscribers get a welcome kit with two weeks of meals, a free storage container and a stick step by step guide to help with the transition. With Ollie, you'll see more energy, shinier coats, healthier weight, and yes, easier cleanup. Dogs deserve the best. Go to ollie.com thrivepup and use code thrivepup to get 60% off your first box. That's o l l I e.com thrivepup. It's backed by a happiness guarantee, so if it's not the right fit, you'll get your money back.

[Ryan Grim]

So is Donald Trump going to die? Well, we're all going to die. Is Donald Trump going to die today? Doubtful.

[Krystal Ball]

No.

[Ryan Grim]

Soon, maybe.

[Krystal Ball]

He's 79 years old and Alex Jones, one of his preeminent supporters in the new media ecosystem. Although Alex Jones is kind of a new media pioneer if you think about it.

[Ryan Grim]

For 30 years.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, exactly. New media for 30 years. But one of Donald Trump's preeminent backers is deeply concerned actually about the state of Trump's health because of the images. Because in part of the images that continue rolling out of Trump with bruised hands and very swollen ankles. So this would be one we can roll through some of this. Trump reappeared on Monday after questions had been raised. He reappeared on Monday with the bruises on his hands. Again, we've seen sort of splotches of foundation rubbed over the bruises at different points too. So sometimes you see the bruising visible and then sometimes you see the foundation like right there. If you're listening to this, it's exactly what you think it is. You've probably seen the pictures already on your own, but that's what Alex Jones is going to be reacting to here in this clip. And again, Ryan Trump, 79 years old. Probably not surprising to anybody that he might have some health complications. Let's rule Alex Jones B2 because you.

[Ryan Grim]

Can see him declining faster and faster. It's not super bad yet. I predict Trump is going to have some type of collapse within the next 12 months at the current trajectory. I'm not saying he's going to collapse. I'm saying if he doesn't take his foot off the gas pedal, I guarantee you. And I've got stamina way better than most people. If I had Trump's job at 51 for a month, I would have a nervous breakdown. I've seen a lot of signs of Trump declining the fear that he's getting sick, that who knows what's going on. His ankles are giant. That usually means serious heart decline. I mean, liver failure, too. But his eyes aren't yellow. So he's saying, I don't know if I'm doing a good job. I don't know if I'm gonna get into heaven. I hear I'm not doing a good job. This is the President of the United States calling into FOX News in the morning saying this.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, so what Alex Jones was just referring to. Let's Skip ahead to B5. This is Trump talking about how he will asking whether he will go to heaven in regard to ending the conflict in Ukraine.

[Ryan Grim]

If I can save 7,000 people a week from being killed, I think that's a pretty. I want to try and get to heaven if possible. I'm hearing I'm not doing well. I am really at the bottom of the totem pole. But if I can get to heaven, this will be one of the reasons.

[Krystal Ball]

And finally, here's what the White House has said about the bruising and the ankles. We'll start with B3. Recent photos of the President have shown minor bruising on the back of his hand. This is consistent with minor soft tissue irritation from frequent handshaking and the use of aspirin, which is taken as part of a standard cardiovascular prevention regimen. This is a well known and benign side effect of aspirin therapy. And the President remains in excellent health, which I think all of you witness on a daily basis here. And then we can go ahead and move right on to the next clip about the ankles. In recent weeks, President Trump noted mild swelling in his lower legs. In keeping with routine medical care and out of an abundance of caution, this Concern was thoroughly evaluated by the White House Medical Unit. The President underwent a comprehensive examination, including diagnostic vascular studies. Bilateral lower extremity venous Doppler ultrasounds were performed and revealed chronic venous insufficiency AB9 in common condition, particularly in individuals over the age of 70. Importantly, there was no evidence of deep vein thrombosis or arterial disease. So a benign condition in people over the age of 70. Two things, Ryan. One, I think we've learned it's important to pay attention to this in the last four years that the executive. I mean, I guess we didn't have to learn it. I don't know if the media actually learned it, but I think we've had a, let's just say a lesson in why it's important, a real world example, as they say when you're in elementary school, of why these things are important over the last four or five years with Joe Biden. Secondly, Alex Jones is known especially on the right for being something of a. What's the right way to put it? A Nostradamus like figure.

[Ryan Grim]

Canary in the coal mine.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, Tucker Carlson, for example, will say everything Alex Jones claims comes true, basically. Right. Like that's the meme.

[Ryan Grim]

So if he says something, it's. People are like, oh, they get nervous. It's like the opposite of Jim Cramer.

[Krystal Ball]

It's the opposite of Jim Cramer when he makes predictions. People have said, now you really gotta listen to Alex Jones because he predicted X, Y and Z on the left.

[Ryan Grim]

We have a hard time even understanding that you guys take him seriously. But he seems to have almost had a renaissance. Or did he never go away?

[Krystal Ball]

No, I think he did have a renaissance. I think the post Sandy Hook trial, he's quite literally sobered up. But also just, I mean, I don't know.

[Ryan Grim]

This is for people who didn't follow. He said the whole Sandy Hook thing was completely made up. It was all one of the most insane.

[Krystal Ball]

It was horrible. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, he does get taken a bit more seriously now in part because people feel like they've looked back and realized that Alex Jones said things they felt were true.

[Ryan Grim]

Not that.

[Krystal Ball]

But all that is to say, Ryan, people are going to take that seriously coming from Alex Jones and people like MAGA is going to take it seriously coming from Alex Jones. So what do you make of the White House saying benign, okay, everything's fine?

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, I'm not, I'm not a doctor. I do know it's not good when your ankles are swelling. That's suggestive of. Yes, circulatory or heart problems because the blood's going down, it's not coming back up. Like, that's. I mean, there can be other things that cause swelling, other fluid issues, but in general, that's why they rushed him to get that looked at now, certainly, like, he is shaking hands with, like, Alpha dudes and Alpha women. Howard Lutton all day long.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Who? This is their chance to shake the President's hand. They're coming with their A game. And I'm sure every time he's like, oh, God, Oh, Jesus Christ. Like, you see my hand? You still had to do that. Macron almost, like, ripped his fingers off, remember?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. But then didn't he almost rip Macron's fingers off?

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And so now everybody knows that it's going to be like a handshake off.

[Krystal Ball]

So there's nobody but himself to blame.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Really?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, you heard it here first. Rangrim. Not a doctor. But we do have some comments from.

[Ryan Grim]

Someone a softer, who's also not a doctor. Is he a doctor?

[Krystal Ball]

I think he's. Let's just.

[Ryan Grim]

He works with doctors.

[Krystal Ball]

B6. B6.

[Ryan Grim]

The President's congestive heart failure is getting worse. I'm a home health physical therapist with a doctorate in my field. I see congestive heart failure patients on a daily basis. Reason I know that he has congestive heart failure is because of the swelling in his feet and ankles. The reason I know it's getting worse is because he's sitting behind the desk on camera. Now, he lashed out against MSNBC for giving him hash about his ankles. This is how we know that something is true, because it gets to Trump. Remember recently where he was talking about going to heaven for some reason says people said I'm not doing very well. I don't think he's talking about the media. I think he's talking about the doctors who are treating him. The only reason his health has been maintained at all is because he has the privilege of getting IV diuretics, Spironolactone, Lasix, Bumex, something like that. That's why his hands have been bruised and covered with makeup. Badly, I might add. We know that it's getting worse because he knows he cannot hide the degree of swelling. That's why he's sitting behind the desk.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh.

[Ryan Grim]

He also has chronic kidney disease, which is also contributing to the swelling in the feet and ankles. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a patient in their home because they were hospitalized for aki, or acute kidney injury. The kidney injury was caused by nephrotoxic medications, namely diuretics, spironolactone, Bumex, Lasix. The President is definitely getting sicker, and we know he's not going to change his diet because he's such a idiot. I think he's going to be around for six to eight months, tops. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

[Krystal Ball]

Ryan was losing it during that clip. It's blue and on a horseshoe theory with Alex Jones.

[Ryan Grim]

Basically, my favorite part is I'm a home health aide with a doctorate in my field.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a doctorate in my field.

[Ryan Grim]

Wait, wait. In your field? So he has a PhD in something.

[Krystal Ball]

Could mean a lot.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

There's a great moment in Friends where.

[Ryan Grim]

But this is a viral. Like, we're not just picking any random.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, yeah, no, this one very.

[Ryan Grim]

Going everywhere.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes. There's a great moment in Friends where someone asks. Ross is trying to insist that he's a doctor because he's a PhD in, like, paleontology. And Rachel's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Russ, if I'm having a heart attack, what I need is you there with your fossil brush. That's equivalent of what we just watched.

[Ryan Grim]

Although at least that guy works with old and dying people. So, like, if he was a friend of mine, I would be like, yeah, let me hear your experience in life of, like, dealing with old and dying people.

[Krystal Ball]

And then you'd come on here and.

[Ryan Grim]

Say a source, like a medical source with a doctorate in his field.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Says to me that he has six to eight months.

[Krystal Ball]

Listen, Trump was tweeting at, like. I think he was tweeting at, like.

[Ryan Grim]

One in the morning.

[Krystal Ball]

Just about. I'll have to go back. I want to say it was about Cracker Barrel. I think we got an early morning tweet about True Social post about Cracker Barrel. Like, the guy sleeps five hours. Then again, he. Then he'll golf 18 holes Saturday, golf 18 holes Sunday, seems to eat whatever the hell he wants. So I don't know if he's in great health or horrible health. It could be one of the two.

[Ryan Grim]

We know he will not die in his sleep because he does. He doesn't sleep.

[Krystal Ball]

The odds are low.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So J.D. vance. I don't know if he's getting ready, lacing up. I don't know. Trump's life force is attention, so I find it very hard to believe that whatever diseases he has in his body can overcome the power of that life force.

[Krystal Ball]

He's gonna live forever.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, throughout, at least until he's no longer president, because Once he's back and sitting around with real estate guys again, then he could decline quickly. Like, when somebody leaves the Senate, it's like, you know how when old folks, one of the spouses dies and the other one dies within six months? That's what happens to senators when they leave office. Within six months, they leave their real spouse. Yeah, within six months. They just with it because they're not getting the. That energy, that life force anymore, which is the adulation.

[Krystal Ball]

You lose your access to the adrenochrome and the kid's blood when you leave the Senate.

[Ryan Grim]

I've heard people make actual medical arguments around this, like, life force grading sense that some people in particular are particularly able to suck it up, and Trump is definitely one of them. He's the first president in his first term who not only didn't age, he left office, like, looking better than he came in. So finally, maybe gravity is catching up with him, but that gravity has a lot to work against because he absolutely loves the spotlight and thrives in it. Like a lizard on a rock.

[Krystal Ball]

Like a lizard on a rock. Let's move on to aipac Shakur. We went from a lizard on a rock to aipac Shakur. This is the new nickname that Hakeem Jeffries has gotten from Charlemagne. We should just take a look at this clip, because describing it doesn't do it justice. Let's rule C1.

[Ryan Grim]

I love having the speaker, Minority Speaker.

[Krystal Ball]

Hakeem Jeffries, because, you know, I'm a political nerd. Like, I love talking about Charlamagne.

[Ryan Grim]

Hates him.

[Krystal Ball]

You do?

[Ryan Grim]

I don't hate him. I just don't think he stands for anything. Well, I think that he's. I call him aipac Shakur. Well, we did talk about messaging, and I actually went to the Capitol, had.

[Krystal Ball]

A meeting with him, and we talked.

[Saagar Enjeti]

About messaging and how I was, like.

[Ryan Grim]

The frustration with the party is y' all have to get more gangster. Like, stop going by the politics of the.

[Krystal Ball]

The late 2000s, you know, in 2010. And you have to, like, rise to.

[Ryan Grim]

The occasion in the messaging. And he did.

[Krystal Ball]

I saw him do more afterwards.

[Ryan Grim]

Hakeem is a puppet.

[Krystal Ball]

Hakeem's not doing anything.

[Ryan Grim]

If shucks, don't tell him to do it. And as simple as that. But I did. I was very happy that he came.

[Saagar Enjeti]

On our little podcast, though.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Because we can, like, have these conversations, and I feel like, you know, a lot of.

[Ryan Grim]

A lot of people don't press these folks.

[Krystal Ball]

You know what I mean?

[Ryan Grim]

And we do, and we need to do that we need to be pressing all of them for people not steeped in their Hakeem Jeffries lore. He loves to rap. Like, he. At fundraisers, at major events. Like, he will spit bars, as the kids say. It's like watching the most cringe thing.

[Krystal Ball]

You'Ve ever seen, right? Like, it's so bad.

[Ryan Grim]

So apac Shakura. I think that one's gonna stick. That hurts.

[Krystal Ball]

It's like when he's. When some kid is at their, like, middle school talent show. That's what it's like watching Hakeem Jeffries rap. It's like he's better.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm critical of Hakeem Jeffries.

[Krystal Ball]

You give it to him in the rapping.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, he's not gonna, like, get on a label or anything, but, like, I think he's better than, like a bar mitzvah guy.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a low bar, but, like, I.

[Ryan Grim]

Think he's like, this is decent. Like, you know, it's not. Nothing original. He's just sticking to the, you know, the old beats and it's like 90s kind of beats. But, you know, I'm a 90s kid, so that's true. That's all I need.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, this comes on the heels of the DNC vote. And Ryan, I'm very, very curious to get your breakdown of everything that happened. So C2, we can put up the screen. On the screen. This is the DNC vote. There was an amendment at the DNC urging the support for recognition of Palestine as a state and then also ending all military aid to Israel. Ran into some trouble, you may be shocked to learn. Hit a few snags, Ryan, tell us what happened.

[Ryan Grim]

And speaking of Apex core, we'll start with this dmfi Democratic Majority for Israel, which is a. An offshoot of aipac, put out this statement because AIPAC is too toxic in the Democratic Party. So they made dmfi, they said. Today the Democratic Party sent a clear and resounding message by defeating a reckless and divisive resolution, we stand with the people of Israel and will continue to do so. For more than 75 years, the U. S. Israel relationship has been strong because it's grounded in shared values and mutual security interests. We cannot forget how we got here. Hamas started this war and continues to hold 50 hostages. Passing this resolution would have been a gift to Republicans. Further divided our party and rewarded Hamas brutality because Hamas is very closely following the DNC bylaws and platform creation. No doubt in this critical moment, Democrats stood firm, rejected this dangerous effort, and sent a message that they remain united in our commitment to Israel's security and our longstanding alliance. And so the meeting began with Ken Martin, the new head of the dnc, putting forward a resolution that was as milquetoast as it could be while still being offensive to some pro Israel members of the party. All it said was that basically the land of Israel is a place where two peoples have historical roots, which is undeniably true. Yet still there is a whole strain of pro Israel argumentation that says that Palestinians are made up and didn't. Don't actually exist and didn't even exist before, like the 1970s or something, even though they're mentioned in, like, Home, by, like, Homer, like, all the way back first recorded history. Setting that aside, it's obviously true. So that passed. And some other fairly uncontroversial for the DNC things. And that resolution, and then it gets to the one that says that there's going to be an arms embargo on Israel and the Democrats are going to recognize a Palestinian state. There was an attempt to amend it to add offensive weapons.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

And put in some other palatable things to Israel. That was defeated, I think, by a combination of the resolution's supporters didn't want to water it down, and the resolution's opponents didn't want it to be watered down out of fear that it might pass if it was watered down. So that amendment was rejected. So it went straight with an arms embargo, and Democrats voted it down, and DMFI celebrated. And then when they left the room, all the reporters followed them, and the DNC staff and members were just livid. Like, why won't you stick around and follow the rest of our proceedings? Why are you so concerned about just this one issue?

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Which I get it. But they're carrying out a genocide, and.

[Krystal Ball]

So it's interesting that they couldn't even get it amended. Right. That. Because that's a. Alyssa Slotkin sat literally right here and said she would consider an offensive weapons ban.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And then went on to Colbert and missed the vote, but said she would have voted for it. Right, yeah. Which, anyway.

[Krystal Ball]

And it's a.

[Ryan Grim]

The offensive weapon thing is insane. Like, if you think somebody is committing a genocide, why give them any weapons whatsoever? And if it's only about civilians, who needs the defensive weapons more than the Palestinians? If you really want to protect civilians, wouldn't you send the Iron Dome to the Palestinians? When was the last time anything was fired at Israel?

[Krystal Ball]

It reminds me of we were sitting at the DNC last year. It just was the most obvious thing in the world that the party should allow, just from the bare political standpoint of this, should allow somebody from the Free Palestine Movement to go up and speak. I mean, they have so many speakers throughout the week. They have, they're just doing random people, throwing random people out there and they can't give any. They won't give an inch.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, they wanted a two minute vetted speech by a Palestinian American who serves as a Georgia lawmaker and they wouldn't allow it. In St. Louis, Cory Bush, as we know, was ousted by Wesley Bell last cycle. Bush is rumored to be looking at a rematch. Wesley Bell, as you saw last week, had a town hall where a bunch of constituents complained to him about his support for Israel's genocide. He told them he would talk to them after he dealt with the media. He went and did some interviews with the media. As he was back talking to the media, his security then beat up a bunch of constituents. Now we have a new event. It's a public event. If you look, watch, see how many people you can count in the audience. The event I'm about to show you where he's asked about the enormous amounts of money that he has taken. And his defense is, is quite remarkable. Let's roll. Wesley Bell here. People want to support this, Support what we're doing, please. Hey, we'll take it because we got to get our message out. And the bottom line is, is that in our politics, you know that they have, they're expecting close to a couple billion dollars in these elections coming out. And so that money is flowing everywhere. And until we address that issue and give campaign finance reforms, if you want representation that's going to represent your district, those people can't just go in there with empty pockets and just hopes and dreams. We got to understand there's a game being played. Politics is a game that's being played. And we can sit back and be righteous and say, no, we're not going to do it that way and we can keep losing. And you know what? That's what we've been doing. Listen, we can't just sit back and just be like, oh, well, we just go, just keep doing what we doing and now we're not going to get involved. No, we can't do that. And so I hear what you're saying and that's why I stay accessible. I say, I'm going to come out in the community. I'm not going to shy away from tough, tough stuff. So Wesley Bell got more than $12 million from AIPAC to Defeat Cori Bush. His diagnosis is that Democrats are not doing better because they are too discerning and puritanical about who they will take money from. And if they would just take more money from more people, Democrats wouldn't be in the bind that they're in now. If he had not taken a penny and not even run for Congress, St. Louis would still be represented by Cori Bush.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And her quote, unquote, empty pockets.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

So I don't quite understand what he accomplished in terms of representation for St. Louis by taking the money, but setting that aside. So if. Are Democrats too discerning about who they take money from? Is that your assessment?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, clearly. I mean, all that cash from Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein, that was. They were just being careful. That is all you can say.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So thank you to Wesley Bell for being open about your willingness to take money from absolutely anybody.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, but let's not forget Sam Bankman, Friedman, Fried. That was a fun one.

[Ryan Grim]

You know, it's nice when people are upfront about it. At least we'll take that. So if Cori Bush does run again, that's going to cost AIPAC another 10, $15 million in St. Louis.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And maybe Bell wins, maybe he doesn't. He only won by 4 percentage points or something like that, or less than that. I think it was like 4,000 votes or something like that.

[Krystal Ball]

Which is actually, I think, remarkable given how radical compared to the average Democrat. Cori Bush.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Yeah. Yes. She was one of the first and she was a lead sponsor of the ceasefire resolution. She did not back down remotely. And so this was, you know, we're, you know, two years later, she may be in a better position.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Especially because I think the climate has changed significantly on the Israel question.

[Ryan Grim]

And he's going to have to go around continuing to explain how. Why he's taking all of his money. And he's going to have to do better than that. But you can't do better than that. Like that is it like. That's like that's it.

[Krystal Ball]

It's just a behind the scenes secret. Democrats are. And Republicans are not at all discerning in whose money they take. No, that's. They will take anyone's money.

[Ryan Grim]

Some are like Cori Bush, like the Justice Democrats in the world. Now, she doesn't have to be discerning because AIPAC is not.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. They're not offering.

[Ryan Grim]

Showing up and offering her no money. Although as I reported in my book squad, after AOC won, her campaign got a call and said AIPAC is ready to raise $200,000 for you off the bat, 100 or 200,000. Check the details in the book and there's a lot more where that came from. And we'd love to educate you on the historic relationship between Israel and the United States. And we believe so. It was even on offer for her. She said, no, we're not doing that right. And the campaign was even a little surprised at the brazenness of it. You're kind of, I think, trained to think it's a little more sophisticated than that.

[Krystal Ball]

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Grim]

Welcome to today. From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here to help you take it all off as the forecast calls for football all across the country. Blockbuster stars, live concerts and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

[Ryan Grim]

Watch the Today show Weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

Netanyahu decided to drop by Patrick Bet David's show, of course.

[Ryan Grim]

And so tell us about who's Patrick Bet David? Like what's his.

[Krystal Ball]

Don't ask me.

[Ryan Grim]

What's his place in this ecosystem? Do we know?

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, maybe you could lump him in with the like podcast bro category if people big in that. Yeah, he's definitely bro coded. He has like very lively conversations on his channel.

[Ryan Grim]

What's Netanyahu doing? Like Nelk boys and now this. And then he, I mean, they brought these weird influencers over to like take video.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh yeah, the Prageru influencer. I mean, it's exactly what Netanyahu just from a cynical perspective, I think the Nelk boys decision, as unserious as we all know it is and as cynical as we all know it is, that is exactly what you would want to do. If you are trying to prevent losing young right wing men to the anti Israel movement. That's like actually exactly what you would want to do. And you would also want to go on Patrick Bet David show if that's what you're trying to do. So I think strategically it's like pretty clever. How do we think it went for him? Let's take a look.

[Ryan Grim]

Israel owns America. You know, Israel is who makes America do things they want him to do. Whether it's through aipac, whether it's through, you know, funding money. You'll typically hear this. This has been overly said the last couple years in a major way. And there's a big, there's a community of Americans that at this point believe that whatever Israel wants, they make a phone call to America. America better do or else. Do you agree with that? Absolutely not. I think it's full of hokum. First of all, do you know President Trump? Sort of.

[Krystal Ball]

I've known him for many years.

[Ryan Grim]

Sure.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay.

[Ryan Grim]

You don't make him do anything. He does what he thinks is in America's interests? I don't know. It's a good question. But you said something about Biden that I should just point out the facts. In fact, President Biden supported us in.

[Krystal Ball]

The beginning of the war, after this.

[Ryan Grim]

Horrific massacre, and he came here and I very much appreciate it. But as the war progressed and the vilifications of Israel, the distortions on the media began to pile on. You know, he began to take a different course. And when we were just 2/3 of the way, 3/4 of the way in Gaza, I said, we have to go into that last position that they had where they had organized battalions. It's in a city called Rafah in the southern part of the Gaza Strip. And he said, don't go there. And he said, if you do go there, I'll smack an embargo on you. You know, you're fighting a sevenfold war and all of a sudden you're slapped with an embargo.

[Krystal Ball]

What do you think, Ryan?

[Ryan Grim]

So Biden did say publicly, repeatedly, and Miller and others, Matt Miller and others, State Department spokesperson, said Rafah is a red line. That for many reasons US Policy was that Rafah is a red line. Do not go into Rafah. Now for the first time we have Netanyahu's claim of what Biden was willing to say to back up this red line. There will be an embargo. I assume he means arms embargo, not massive, not that mass starvation of Israel. That's barbaric. Nobody should do that. Clearly he did not do that. Netanyahu called his bluff. Whether we know he made a bluff of some sort because he publicly said it's a red line. So strategically it seems like what Netanyahu is doing there is trying to say, I'm with Trump, Biden is with Hamas. And so if you, Patrick, but David viewer, are with Trump, then you're with me. Yes, he's tying himself to Trump and further creating adversaries out of Democrats. Like he, he's amazing. We just talked about Apex Core and you know, the, the Democratic establishment support of Israel remains like rock solid.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Netanyahu's adversarial relationship to the Democratic Party is, remains very strong. It's this one way support.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's a really interesting point because I was gonna say, I mean, Netanyahu can be credited with solidifying the Republican Party's magnetic, like, relationship with Israel. It was not always like that. If you go back to the Reagan administration, there's a lot of support for Israel, but there's not this Deference, this reflexive deference to Israel, which is actually really just a reflexive deference to Likud. And that's Netanyahu. Netanyahu has led the way on that point. And it's been whatever you say about Netanyahu, and you can say a lot of things about Netanyahu, that has been politically, cynically a calculation that paid off for him. And I think that's what you're seeing in the Patrick McDavid interviews. He's continuing to try to make that point, that he is the, that Israel is the renegade actor, that that is the maverick actor. That is the. If you're an American who want to see this sort of global elite busted up, you're supporting Israel in this situation against the rest of the world and the evil forces of the rest of the world, the Islamists that want to take down America for American freedom and all of that. He's trying the same line out and it's probably the best he's got. I mean, unfortunately for him, it's probably the best he's got at this point.

[Ryan Grim]

And while this is going on, the news out of Gaza is that Israel's incursion into Gaza City is continuing. And the reporting that we're getting from the ground there is that it's horrific beyond even the description of what we've seen before. Previously when cities have been taken by the IDF and destroyed, first they would take the city, they be completely depopulated and then they would send in these combat engineering units that would then detonate block by house by house, block by block until cities at complete rubble, which has now been done to Rafah. That's not what they're doing this time. This time they are sending in bomb laden robots into populated city blocks and setting the explosives off to the point where you can see the explosions from miles away. You had this like IDF linked Mossad, it's called Mossad Osint account saying that actually that Hamas was doing this. It's like Hamas doesn't have robots, first of all, Hamas doesn't have explosives with charges like that. And also why would Hamas be blowing up like city blocks filled with people? And so they're sending in these robots, basically suicide bombers, except they're robots rather than people. And then, and then moving in and then clearing and then and proceeding apace. You've got close to a million people affected by this in and around Gaza City area who are now being pushed further west. They're very nervous about going south, they're telling us, because if they, they know, or they believe that if they go south, like that's it, like that Gaza City's over and it'll be completely flat and completely destroyed. Saying there's very little Hamas resistance in the area, in these areas, because what are you going to do? Like there's these robotic bomb laden monsters are rolling in and they're just blowing up. Like there's nothing you can really do as a resistance force against something like that. Now this is happening in the context of the assassinations of all of the journalists who. Not all of them. There's, you know, many are still working, but many of the most prominent journalists in Gaza City were killed over the last several weeks. Khan Yunis we had, you know, five more journalists killed the other day, including a sixth in his tent. Later, an investigative journalist in a separate attack. So fallout from that attack continues. We'll move to that next because we're learning two just absolutely unbelievable details about this. And I think people need to retain their ability to be shocked by this because if you're not, then you're losing your moral core and people want you to become numb to this stuff. And when things that shock the conscience happen, we should still acknowledge that they're shocking. So it goes back to this. We could place C6 here. This is a strike that probably everybody has seen by now. That's the second hit on the second of the double tap master hospital. And so they struck the hospital at 10am and then at 10:17, as you can see in the bottom corner there, it says Coods 1017. Coods Al Quds is the Arabic name for Jerusalem. So 17 minutes after the first strike, there are first responders, medics, journalists, a medical student, a civil defense worker rushed to the scene trying to save the people who've been killed, which included the Reuters cameraman, because they attacked this camera, which we'll talk about in a moment. Seventeen minutes later, they bomb, they bomb it again to kill all of those people. So the IDF has now come out with its own explanation for what happened. We'll get into that in a second. What we're learning though is that the day before this happened, the international doctors working at Nasser Hospital were told that the next morning they would have to go to the WHO headquarters, which is 30 minutes away, for an in person gender violence training. Extremely unusual. And we'll talk about this in a second, but let's put up C7 here.

[Krystal Ball]

I was just listening to your reporter saying that Netanyahu says this is a tragic mishap. This is absolutely untrue. This is strategic and intentional.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The foreign aid workers, the foreign doctors.

[Krystal Ball]

That are actually in the hospital were asked to leave before this airstrike. And so that is not a mishap.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That is absolutely deliberate.

[Krystal Ball]

This is not the first time Israel has struck a hospital. Are you hearing from your contacts on the ground that foreign doctors working at Nasser Hospital were given the heads up to evacuate Nasser Hospital before strike came? Absolutely. They were told some arbitrary reason that they had to leave and they weren't allowed to come back until the next day. So this is not an accident.

[Ryan Grim]

Now, to travel from Nasser Hospital in kanye to the who, that travel would have to be coordinated with Kogat, which is the Israeli agency that makes sure that they know who's moving where. And if they see a convoy moving and it is an unapproved convoy, they will strike it with a drone. And so the hospitals always coordinate their movement. Who coordinates the movement with Israel at drop site. We confirmed directly with. With a person on the ground there that this. That what doctor said Mimi side there said did in fact occur. Another interview was done by, I believe this is a nurse with Times of Times of London. We can roll C8.

[Krystal Ball]

There are other NGOs that do enter the hospital that were also attending the mandatory meeting, but they, they don't sleep in the corridors. Okay, so how many of them were you approximately at this mandatory training? And you've already said it's pretty unusual for you to have this sort of mandatory training. Yeah, it was about 15 of us that were there. And the training was in what, Amanda? The training was at the WHO house and it was training for gender based violence. Was it strange to you or is this normal to receive this type of training? Yeah, in my prior times of volunteering internationally, we usually get all the information prior to our start. The fact that they're now introducing this gender based violence lecture halfway through my rotation. What's also interesting is they mandated that one of our other volunteers who's planning to exit tomorrow, to also attend. So it was mandated for volunteers who really weren't going to have any physical interaction with patients. Also, the fact that we inquired about other ways to attend the lecture remotely and it was completely turned down. So far, us as a group, our NGO have discussed it amongst ourselves and we're all in consensus that this was a fishing expedition. Like this didn't seem right. This didn't sit right with any of us. In our gut, we knew something was not right. And so we inquired with our lead coordinator to investigate this with the WHO.

[Ryan Grim]

To give us more answers.

[Krystal Ball]

As to who ordered them to have us leave.

[Ryan Grim]

So at a bare minimum, we know that the Israeli military knew that all of the international doctors and nurses were out of Nasser Hospital when they attacked the hospital. That's at a minimum. The questions that remain to be answered are who insisted to the WHO that these nurses and doctors go in person at this time? Why didn't they do this beforehand? Why did they have to do this in person? Like who, who made that demand? One of the Internet, as she said. I don't know if she said it in this clip or not. One of the international doctors was leaving the next morning or later that day or something.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

So it's like, and tried to get out of it, like, I don't need this gender based training. Like I'm leaving. They're like, nope. You also must attend every single person because if you're going to do a double tap strike in a hospital, you're going to kill a lot of medical staff. Because if you hit what they hit the fourth floor right near the intensive care unit. And so one of the doctors who was killed is a resident. He was a third year medical student. He rushed to the scene. American, European, Malaysian. These other doctors who were at Nasser Hospital would have rushed to the scene. It was a scene of terrible carnage. Trying to treat people as quickly as possible. And then when you double tap it, you would have killed those Americans and Europeans and Malaysians or whoever else is there. So at a minimum, we know that that was not a risk that they faced with this double tap strike.

[Krystal Ball]

So then also we have now C10 we can put on the screen. This was the headline in the New York Times just yesterday saying Israel says it attacked Gaza hospital to destroy camera placed by Hamas. And Ryan, you posted this by saying, compare this honest and impressive reporting from New York Times, Eric Toler and others with the headline the New York Times put on his article Absolute night and day. The journalists find the IDF flat out lied. The editors then write a headline that pretends the IDF claim is serious and includes their slanderous claim that six of those killed were militant. Right?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And for context and credit there we put up C11 as well. The first person, the first reporter to observe this and Eric Tolar in his thread credited Yunus Tarawi, who dropsite contributor who's done incredible work. He's the guy who is constantly doing investigations into the war crimes committed by Israeli forces using their own TikTok and Instagram and Facebook confessions that they post. What he observed is that on channel 12 a right wing OSINT enthusiast, as Yunus calls him here. You know these guys who go on Twitter and look at satellite images and say, oh, look, look what I found here.

[Krystal Ball]

Tolar is a Bellingcat guy.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Tolar is a former belly cat guy who now does this exact thing. OSINT for the New York Times. You geolocate, you look at satellite image on this day, compare it to this day, and you can try to figure out what happened. It's very valuable.

[Krystal Ball]

It's an incredible skill if you're good at it.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And incredibly dangerous if you're not. We reported earlier. Oh, yeah, remember that the US used some OSINT advice from amateurs in Yemen and killed dozens of innocent people. So this guy, he claimed on Channel 12 to have identified a Hamas camera. And you know, there are cranks all over Twitter and all over YouTube and everywhere else. It shouldn't be a crime to be a crank. But according to this crank, he was involved with the strike. He was online with them. He said. He. He is now saying publicly to Israeli media that he was helping to guide the missile. And Israel is still saying it was. The second shot was a tank shell. There are photos of a missile approaching the hospital. Precision guided missile, and that he was guiding it. He points to this white towel covering the camera, which is his evidence that it's a hidden camera. Use your brain for a second. A black camera sitting out in the sun is going to overheat. You put a white towel over it. If you're Hamas, is that how you hide a camera? By putting a white towel over it? The fourth floor of a hospital where all the media work. Now, what we also know is whose camera this was. This was a Reuters camera. So we put up C12. So Reuters cameraman was killed immediately and their camera was struck. And so the IDF then comes out and does not give any explanation for the second half of the double tap, but they say that their now official story is that they identified a, quote, Hamas camera and moved to eliminate it. If we can put up the Reuters headline. So the Reuters cameraman was killed in this attack on a Reuters camera. In the article itself, there's a picture of the Reuters camera that was destroyed with a Live View backpack. A Liveu backpack is only used for broadcasting. You've probably used them maybe back way.

[Krystal Ball]

In the day like you see them at any precedent.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, right. It's for broadcasting. It is not for communication. It's not for secret communication with militants. You need like a broadcast license. You need to be working with a broadcaster or with like a YouTube channel or something.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Right. It's not just like a streaming kit.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. But it's not for communication one to one.

[Krystal Ball]

No, it's a broadcast. Like literally the broadcast of the broadcast. Word.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah. And so they have a picture in the Reuters article of the Live View backpack that was hit by the shell. Reuters headline is initial inquiry says Hamas camera was target of Israeli strike that killed journalists. And it says by Reuters. Interesting. There's no byline, which usually in a newsroom when there's no byline, no. Whoever was forced to write the story refused to put their name on it. So they killed a Reuters cameraman and then said it was Hamas. They didn't even say he was Hamas, they said the camera was Hamas. And Reuters is willing to call itself Hamas because Israel says so knowing full well that it was their camera and their cameraman that they attacked. Again, the headline, initial inquiry says Hamas camera was target of Israeli strike that killed journalists. And nowhere in the article do they even say that that's not true. What they do say is that their camera operator was killed and that their camera was hit, but they don't even connect the dots that that's the camera they're referring to.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

I don't know what more capitulation you could have than to literally call yourself Hamas as Reuters. It's like a. And to do that in the wake of their colleague being killed, it's truly startling. A Reuters photographer resigned in protest over this. I saw yesterday or the day before. So like I said, I think we need to maintain our capacity to be shocked by this stuff. Because if this isn't shocking to us, then it. Then it just becomes normalized and they won't even bother offering explanations.

[Krystal Ball]

Meanwhile, as he was before he was going on the Patrick Bet David podcast, Netanyahu was posting C9, that Free Press video discussing how they wrote the article. This is getting really meta that Crystal and Sager talked about yesterday. Because they went after you, Crystal and Sager, by name.

[Ryan Grim]

And Glenn, did you feel left out?

[Krystal Ball]

Of course I felt left out. I mean, you know, I like to be part of group activities. But they went after you guys for questioning the article. And then Netanyahu actually posted in solidarity with the Free press, basically the video where they talked about the process of developing the article.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, he posted Facts Matter. And in one of the clips here, and this is the one we just had up there, Olivia Rheingold is citing the case of Mosseb Al Debs. And this is what they. This is what the free press itself put in their video, they write or they quote, the 14 year old boy was featured in the same CNN story as another child, quote, suffering from malnourishment on quote, scare quotes. The original caption didn't mention that last May he sustained a traumatic head injury amid what SHMS News Agency, a Gaza based outlet, called quote, an Israeli shell explosion. So according to the Free Press, CNN is being unfair to Israel because they said that a 14 year old boy is suffering from malnourishment without in the caption mentioning that he'd also had part of his skull blown out by an Israeli shell. And Benjamin Netanyahu is so proud of this reporting from Olivia Rheingold and the Free Press that he shared it with Facts Matter.

[Krystal Ball]

So in that editorial, one of the things the Free Press cited in defense of that article was that Washington Post other outlets added corrections which really weren't corrections so much as they were updates to the stories.

[Ryan Grim]

Update, the 14 year old suffering from malnourishment also has a traumatic brain injury. And that's exactly okay, thank. That's useful information. That is fine. Right.

[Krystal Ball]

And that's where they like, yeah, that's where it's like, yep, this is absolutely correct that the context is important. And in some cases the context is even more devastating to the narrative that, you know, this is all okay, that this isn't, you know, some deeply serious concern because like when you, when you zoom into the con to the context, you realize, oh, this kid had his head blown off.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Or you realize this is a condition because someone was malnourished in the womb. This is a condition because someone like the. Nobody objects to the context. And I actually think that's the Washington Post and whomever else updating their story proves that nobody objects to the full context.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And nobody would object to this reporting from the Free Press if they didn't follow it immediately. With Israel's opponents are saying that these are the average representatives of people in Gaza and they're using them to tell you that there's a famine, when in fact there is not a famine. There is certainly there's suffering in Gaza, but there's no famine. So they are very clear about the purpose of their context that they're adding. They think that what they're doing is complicating the question and letting people know that actually it's not as bad as people want you to believe. That's what they're saying. The context they're adding does not actually make their case. And so if they're actually genuinely curious about what? Why people are objecting to their reporting. That's why. It's because their conclusion, which clearly they started with before they did the reporting, their conclusion is incorrect. Also, they keep citing cerebral palsy and all these other maladies that are not fatal in children. So the fact that they're dying with these pre existing conditions, this is not the point that you think it is. The point is to treat these conditions, not to malnourish them such that they die with them, and then point to those conditions as some type of excuse for Israel to continue with this genocide.

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Krystal Ball]

This is an I Heart podcast.