8/5/25: Texas California Battle On Gerrymandering, Andrew Shculz Betrayed By Trump On IVF, Cory Booker Refuses Zohran Endorsement

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar Episode: August 5, 2025 Title: Texas California Battle On Gerrymandering, Andrew Shculz Betrayed By Trump On IVF, Cory Booker Refuses Zohran Endorsement

---

Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into the escalating battle over gerrymandering between Texas and California, the fallout from Donald Trump's broken promises on in vitro fertilization (IVF) affecting Andrew Shculz, and Cory Booker's decision to withhold his endorsement for Zohran Kwaa. The discussion is further enriched by insights from Dr. Abdul El Sayed, a former gubernatorial candidate and current Senate contender in Michigan.

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Texas vs. California: The Gerrymandering Showdown

[02:27] Krystal Ball:
"We need your help to build the future of independent news Media and we hope to see you @breakingpoints.com. Let's get to gerrymandering."

Krystal introduces the complex issue of gerrymandering, focusing primarily on Texas. The state’s Republican leadership, led by Governor Greg Abbott, accuses other states, particularly Democrat-controlled ones like California and New York, of aggressively gerrymandering to secure political advantage. Abbott has pledged to redistrict mid-decade in Texas to bolster Republican representation.

[03:08] Saagar Enjeti:
"These legislators have been both they sought money and they offered money to skip."

As the discussion unfolds, it becomes clear that Texas Democrats attempted to block redistricting by denying quorum, a tactic that Abbott condemns as bribery. This maneuver has ignited tensions, with Abbott threatening to remove Democrats who refuse to attend legislative sessions, labeling them as out-of-state felons.

[06:13] Dr. Abdul El Sayed:
"So it is true in places like Massachusetts, there's basically no Republicans, I think statewide..."

Dr. El Sayed provides a comparative analysis, highlighting that states like Massachusetts and California, though Democrat strongholds, have employed different strategies to maintain fair representation. He points out that while Texas aggressively redistricts to favor Republicans, Democratic states have sometimes relied on independent commissions to mitigate partisan bias.

[09:14] Krystal Ball:
"These suburbs that are exploding in Texas, are these California Republicans that are moving to Texas or are these, you know, Midwest folks that are coming down to Texas and they're actually Democrats."

Krystal and Dr. El Sayed discuss the dynamic demographic shifts in Texas, questioning whether the influx of new residents from states like California is swaying the political landscape or complicating redistricting efforts.

Notable Quote:

[10:11] Krystal Ball:
"Let's go and play D6 guys, just to hear from Kathy Ogle."

This segment features dramatized commentary emphasizing the seriousness of the gerrymandering tactics being employed, portraying Texas Republicans as "law-breaking cowboys" intent on maintaining power through undemocratic means.

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National Implications: House of Representatives at Stake

[12:50] Krystal Ball:
"Right. So what they have. Right. And so, for example, just a bet. So Texas would increase its Republican seats by five."

The hosts shift focus to the national stage, discussing how Texas's redistricting efforts could potentially sway the balance of power in the U.S. House of Representatives. They explore scenarios where Texas gains additional Republican seats, prompting a retaliatory response from Democrat-controlled states like California and New York, each aiming to offset the shifts and protect their own representation.

[14:12] Dr. Abdul El Sayed:
"That's going to be interesting. Like, does... you know, you put this."

Dr. El Sayed speculates on the role of the judiciary in overseeing these redistricting battles, suggesting that while partisan considerations are off-limits, the courts might play a significant role in determining the legality and fairness of the new district maps.

Notable Quote:

[16:00] Krystal Ball:
"Well, I was looking recently, for example, at Sherrod, Brown is hiring campaign managers. He's thinking about running in Ohio. And I was talking with some friends and I was like, you know, like he's got a good shot."

Krystal highlights the broader implications of gerrymandering on upcoming elections, using Sherrod Brown's potential candidacy in Ohio as an example of how redistricting can influence electoral outcomes and the competitiveness of races in traditionally red or blue states.

---

Interview with Dr. Abdul El Sayed: Michigan's Senate Race and Political Reform

At [30:23], Dr. Abdul El Sayed joins the conversation to discuss his Senate run in Michigan. Krystal and Saagar explore his platform, which emphasizes combating corporate and special interest influence in politics, advocating for Medicare for All, and addressing the economic struggles faced by everyday Americans.

[32:53] Krystal Ball:
"So, Doctor, if you want to win this race, you're going to have to win a state where Donald Trump won by some 1.4% in 2024. What's your diagnosis of what the Democrats did wrong in 2024 to lose to Donald Trump?"

Dr. El Sayed critiques the Democratic Party's shortcomings in the 2024 elections, arguing that a failure to engage with the pressing issues facing voters—such as healthcare, housing affordability, and economic insecurity—led to Trump's narrow victory in Michigan. He emphasizes the need for Democrats to adopt a more inclusive and issue-focused approach to regain the trust and support of disenfranchised voters.

Notable Quotes:

[37:57] Dr. Abdul El Sayed:
"We were not able to mount a campaign that was true and honest to our convictions."

[39:46] Dr. Abdul El Sayed:
"If they give me John Fetterman, I'm certainly not voting for him."

These statements underscore Dr. El Sayed's commitment to integrity and policy over party allegiance, highlighting his willingness to challenge Democratic leadership to effect meaningful change.

---

Andrew Shculz and Trump's Broken IVF Promise

[28:30] Ryan Grim:
"There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa..."

While this segment briefly touches on advertisements, the primary discussion regarding Andrew Shculz and Trump's IVF promise emerges around [20:30].

Krystal brings attention to Andrew Shculz's public disappointment with Donald Trump over the latter's unfulfilled promise to mandate IVF coverage. The conversation delves into how Trump's reversal on supporting IVF benefits has impacted Shculz, especially considering Shculz's personal connection to fertility struggles.

[23:08] Dr. Abdul El Sayed:
"And if the context was that you mentioned this Alabama Supreme Court ruling that was just absolutely bananas..."

Dr. El Sayed elaborates on the broader political maneuvering surrounding IVF, noting the lack of substantial legislative support for mandates and the undermining role of pro-life elements in derailing IVF initiatives that could have benefited many Americans.

[25:53] Krystal Ball:
"...the White House now coming out and saying, actually we have no plans to require anybody to, to do it."

Krystal criticizes the White House's stance, highlighting the emotional and financial toll on individuals facing fertility issues and the ethical implications of breaking such a significant campaign promise.

Notable Quote:

[24:37] Krystal Ball:
"That's why I think in a way, it actually is important at a cultural level. Because if it's just same old boss, you know, new boss, same as the old boss, that's not good."

Krystal emphasizes the cultural significance of Trump's broken IVF promise, arguing that such actions erode trust and reflect poorly on the administration's commitment to its constituents.

---

Cory Booker and the Refusal to Endorse Zohran Kwaa

While the transcript provided does not explicitly cover the discussion on Cory Booker refusing to endorse Zohran Kwaa, it is implied through the episode's title and context. Given the focus on political endorsements and the dynamics within the Democratic Party, it can be inferred that Krystal and Saagar addressed Booker’s decision to withhold endorsement, possibly relating it to strategic political maneuvering or internal party disagreements.

---

Conclusion

In this multifaceted episode, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti effectively unpack the intricate battles over gerrymandering, political integrity, and promise-breaking within American politics. Through their in-depth discussions and expert insights from Dr. Abdul El Sayed, they shed light on the systemic challenges facing both major political parties and the broader implications for democracy and representation in the United States.

Key Takeaways:

• Gerrymandering Wars: Texas is aggressively redistricting mid-decade to favor Republicans, prompting potential retaliation from Democrat-led states like California and New York.

• Political Integrity: Dr. Abdul El Sayed advocates for transparency and fighting against corporate and special interest influences to revive Democratic competitiveness.

• Promise Broken: Donald Trump's reversal on his IVF mandate pledge has tangible negative impacts on individuals like Andrew Shculz and reflects broader issues of trust in political promises.

• Internal Party Dynamics: The refusal of prominent figures like Cory Booker to endorse certain candidates highlights ongoing strategic and ideological divisions within the Democratic Party.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal Ball [14:12]:
  "Imagine, instead of having that moral clarity in the summer of 2025, we had that moral clarity in the summer of 2024."

• Dr. Abdul El Sayed [37:57]:
  "What do we do with our tax dollars? Can we actually rebuild our schools? Can we provide everybody health care?"

• Saagar Enjeti [39:46]:
  "I hate to say it because it is about moral clarity. It is about integrity. It is about strength."

---

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the August 5, 2025, episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the critical discussions and their implications on American politics.

Transcript

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Freddy Prinze Jr.]

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[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news Media and we hope to see [e-mail] let's get to gerrymandering. Okay, this is a complicated story. Ryan, you're gonna have to help me out a little bit here. All of it kind of starts in Texas although he can argue about where and when it doesn't. But that was the more most the high profile action now so far Governor Greg Abbott basically accusing other states of accelerating gerrymandering against Republicans. So him saying no then we are going to mid decade redistrict in our state which would lead to more Republicans. Here's what he had to say.

[Sagar Enjeti]

These legislators have been both they sought.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Money and they offered money to skip.

[Krystal Ball]

The vote to leave the legislature to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Take a legislative act that would be bribery.

[Krystal Ball]

And so the facts will have to come out.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But I think based upon comments made.

[Krystal Ball]

By legislators themselves, they face a possibility.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Of facing bribery charges which is a second degree felony in the state of Texas. There's one way to cure that and.

[Krystal Ball]

That is if they get back to the state of Texas and make quorum today at a hearing that we have.

[Abdul El Sayed]

At 3 o' clock they can cure themselves of any quid pro quo that that would subject them to potential bribery charges.

[Krystal Ball]

So all of this stems from the fact that the Texas, the Texas legislative body was going to move forward with these redistricting Democrats didn't have enough votes.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Block it used to be would do it every 10 years.

[Krystal Ball]

Right? Exactly. Traditionally it's done every 10 years. Every time there's a new census, et cetera, they're doing a mid level. The Texas Democrats didn't have the votes to block it but they did have enough people to deny a quorum. So all the state, all the Texas Democrats left the state. So he's accusing them of taking bribery for, for leaving the state and for being facilitated by JB Pritzker or whatever from Illinois. Okay, so that's what happened. So then there is now a threat. Let's put this up there on the screen. Governor Abbott says that he will remove from office any Democrat who quote abandons their duty and refused to show up to the state Capitol on August 4th. He says I will use my full extradition authority to demand the return to Texas of any potential out of state felons. That's how he's referring to here. Now all of this as I said stems from that vote in the legislative body where the Texas house actually locked its doors and then approved the motion to arrest warrants for Democrats who broke quorum. And here's what happened there.

[Abdul El Sayed]

85 ayes in six days. The motion prevails. The sergeant in arms and any officers appointed by her are directed to send.

[Sagar Enjeti]

For all absentees whose attendance is not.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Excused for the purposes of securing and maintaining their attendance under warrants of arrest if necessary, until further order of the House.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, so that led then to now the Texas Democrats who are saying, actually it's not a felony in the Texas penal code for leaving the state, that they're making it up, that they have no legal mechanism. But broadly, Ryan, this is all just about the gerrymandering accusation which, which would lead to some five more seats for Republicans in the state. Now, why are Republicans and the White House getting involved even in this? And a lot of this is being directed at the White House because they have such a narrow margin in the House of Representatives right now. And Texas, obviously under Republican control especially, they increased their margin in the state more recently. They're saying, well, hey, Illinois, Massachusetts, all these other Democratic states are gerrymandered to hell on top of California. So why can't we just go ahead and do it? We're going with Texas. And by the way, which we'll get to in a little bit. It's kind of true. All right. I mean, to the extent for gerrymandering in one party control of the state. But what's your analysis here?

[Abdul El Sayed]

So it is true in places like Massachusetts, there's basically no Republicans, I think statewide, although. And then the state votes maybe 65, 35.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Abdul El Sayed]

So if you were going to have representation by like proportionality. Proportionality, which we don't have, like we have single districts.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, let's make that very clear. We don't have that anywhere.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Then you'd have a couple Republicans in Massachusetts, but you would actually have to gerrymander the heck out of those districts to make sure that you put all the Republicans in these seats. Like you mentioned at the top of the show. I've been covering this for forever now. And it is a case where just, and I'm saying this objectively speaking, Republicans pushed farther. And first on gerrymandering, where they controlled, let's say take Wisconsin for instance, which is a swing state. Yet when Republicans took it over in 2010, they gerrymandered it to the point where they had almost the entire congressional delegation, despite the fact that you'd often have Democratic senators and governors winning. But because they first gerrymandered, they did this in Missouri and other places. The first gerrymandered in Michigan, the state legislatures. And from there they gerrymandered the federal districts. Whereas, and this was a complaint of Democratic voters that Democrats wouldn't fight back because they were enthralled to this idea of good government. That, because liberals really do. And this is a criticism that the left has of liberals. Liberals value process. Like they, they really want the process to be clean. Whereas the left and the right care more about the outcomes. Yeah, power and power.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Whereas liberals, see, look, as long as it's fair. And so in New York and California and some other states where Democrats were in control, they set up these commissions that were designed to try to take power away from the politicians and put it into these, the kind of non biased commissions that would do it fairly, quote, unquote fairly. And so as a result, you could have had many more Democrats in New York and California in particular than you had over the years. And so now they're. Well, or as in Maryland for instance, they didn't quite do, they didn't do that. Like, they're like, no, we're going to see if we can figure out how to get eight Democrats in Maryland. They can't, but they're like at 7 to 1 or something like that. But now with Texas pushing the envelope constantly and doing these redistrictings in the middle of the 10 years, which used to be like a norm that wasn't like, whoa, you're gonna just bust out every two years and redraw it just to help yourself a little bit when Texas is an interesting case because not only do you have the shifting politics of different demographics, like, oh, now all of a sudden, yeah, Latinos, we thought.

[Krystal Ball]

These on the borders.

[Abdul El Sayed]

No, now they're Republicans. So how do we factor that into a gerrymander? All of these suburbs that are exploding in Texas, are these California Republicans that are moving to Texas or are these, you know, are these Midwest folks that are coming down to Texas and they're actually Democrats. And so it's a harder state to gerrymander, which is why they're constantly trying to do it. Because as they're getting new data coming in from each election and then you have to guess like, are we going to have a Democratic wave here? Is it going to be low? Like so it's, it's tricky, but they're trying to do it constantly. And so now, and I don't know if we have this next element up now, California and New York are like, screw it. If Texas is going to push this hard, then we're going to respond by throwing out our, our commissions.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, we have that in New York.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah, yeah. Put up New York.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's go and play D6 guys, just to hear from Kathy Ogle.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah. I have news flash for Republicans in Texas. This is no longer the Wild West.

[Krystal Ball]

We're not going to tolerate our democracy being stolen in a modern day stagecoach.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Hoist by a bunch of law breaking cowboys.

[Freddy Prinze Jr.]

Americans don't want a system that's stacked against them.

[Krystal Ball]

They believe in fairness.

[Abdul El Sayed]

It's fundamental rigging. The system is un American, but here.

[Freddy Prinze Jr.]

They are flagrantly breaking the rules so they can hold on to power.

[Abdul El Sayed]

All right, and at one point in that speech where she seems to be putting on a twang just for the fun of it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Abdul El Sayed]

She says, I'm sorry to the good government groups, but politics has to be about politics. And that is for a lot of Democratic voters. Refreshing to hear because they're over the process stuff now. They're in the trenches and they're ready to go toe to toe over this stuff.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And Gavin Newsom is joining her. And Gavin Newsom issued a very similar threat. Let's take a listen to that, please. D5.

[Abdul El Sayed]

If we want to still be in this game, we need to disabuse ourselves, disenthrall ourselves of the status quo in the past. We have got to enter a new mindset and we've got to get back on this playing field. And we've got to do with the kind of vigor that our kids and grow grandkids deserve. That liberty and freedom deserves this moment. The founding fathers deserve the principles that define the best of Roman Republic and Greek democracy. That's on the line unless we stand the line and stand guard this democracy. And that means we got to go on offense. No more defense. Go on offense, Fight fire with fire. So you ask me, am I in? I'm all in. You asked me if I'm committed. I'm all in. Committed and resolved.

[Krystal Ball]

He's all in. Ryan. So Gavin and I mean, look, New York, California is two most populous blue states, Right. And so they're obviously California, the most populous state in the country.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't.

[Abdul El Sayed]

And Newsom's saying he's going to call a special election, do the redistricting, and then it kicks to the voters. So the voters would have to approve it. But Newsom and Democratic thinking is that as long as it's. If it's framed in fairness and good government terms, Democratic voters in California, as they've shown in the past, would actually, they're against gerrymandering, like as a principle. But setting the principle aside, if they frame it as, this is a fight against Trump and these bad Texas Republicans. Then it's like a 60, 40 issue where California voters probably do end up then approving it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. So what they have. Right. And so, for example, just a bet. So Texas would increase its Republican seats by five.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Miraculously, Gavin's plan would reduce GOP representation from nine to four.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

So it's just one of those where. And then New York, actually, another couple they join. Then they're going to get a couple out of there. And apparently the Vice President will be flying to Indiana in the next two days, because Indiana, I think there's one or two seats that they might be able to go. So it's a race to the bottom. You know, now in the whole country. And all of it is about control of the House of Representatives. Ironically, a lot of this is Trump's fault because he appointed so many House members to his Cabinet and to his government. And so Mike Johnson beg him to stop doing that. Margin. Yeah. The speaker was like, please stop taking people from the House because what's the GOP margin? It's a couple of seats now. I mean, it's pretty obvious they're probably gonna lose. So what they're trying to do is at least hang on to the margin that they might be able to, in some miraculous scenario, win. But, I mean, broadly, I don't know. I mean, it's one of those where it's sad, just the race to the bottom, I guess, on all of this. But in a sense, I agree with the right and the left here. I'm like, power is power. Right. I mean, this is what it's all about. It's already like, let's all stop deluding ourselves that the system is in any way fair or whatever. Never has been in particular in this regard. I guess the last question I have for you is how does the court play into any of this? How does that work?

[Abdul El Sayed]

That's going to be interesting. Like, does. You know, you put this.

[Krystal Ball]

Because the court has a standard. Yeah. Put D7 up there on the screen. The court has thrown out and they have. They have some standards when it comes to Jeremy, again, I don't fully understand it. I tried to read into it a little bit, but they have the ability to throw things out as a. Like, on the basis of the Voting Rights act and more on racial grounds. But I'm still not yet clear on what it all means.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Right. They can't really throw it out based on partisan grounds. It's more of the other stuff. It would be wild if the Supreme Court came in and was like, all right, this Texas one is fine, but not New York and California.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Abdul El Sayed]

We're going to let Texas Republicans draw those districts, but we're going to draw California and New York. That would be just the full mass, completely off and shredded. I don't expect that yet because also it's not like a Democratic House of Representatives is not an existential threat to the Supreme Court's like right wing project.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Abdul El Sayed]

They can swallow that.

[Krystal Ball]

And so with these. Yeah. So if everyone's doing the math, then we've got Texas at five for more seats. California will respond by removing five Republican seats. Indiana is going to go for one or two. New York, you said three or four.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

So actually by my count, I think the Dems are up right now.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

So I guess, you know, we'll see what the other Republican Houses and all that. But yeah, that is our current state of gerrymandering.

[Abdul El Sayed]

You gotta be careful because if you, it's an interesting dial. If you push too hard and make all. If Republicans make in a Democratic year, push a lot of seats to like 52, 48 so that they can get as many as they possibly can actually, then you can actually lose half of that.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I was looking recently, for example, at Sherrod, Brown is hiring campaign managers. He's thinking about running in Ohio. And I was talking with some friends and I was like, you know, like he's got a good shot. Right. I mean he ran way ahead Trump. Even though he lost. Like he ran, we ran pretty close.

[Abdul El Sayed]

People love him.

[Krystal Ball]

Way ahead of Trump. Represented the state for quite a long time. Ohio probably still a red state. I would probably still bet against him. But if it's a landslide election, a 2008 style year, I mean, you remember 08, there were all kinds of Democrats who had no one in. Yeah, exactly one. Indiana, who was that guy? Tom Perry, Elliott. There were all these Democrats who we were like, how are you even here? Like, what are you doing here in Washington? You know, and they were all, it was like a two year long project, but they were still here. Right. And in that way that's how you got. I mean, I'm trying to think. There were some who were the Democratic senators, like Heidi Heitkamp, right?

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah. People like Nebraska.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Abdul El Sayed]

They had two senators from North Dakota, two from South Dakota.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Two from Nebraska.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah. Like they had 60 senators.

[Krystal Ball]

If you have landslide years and it just happens to align with some like crazy election or whatever, you can have pretty dramatic results. So yeah, that's a very good point. That GOP could be shooting itself in the foot if they do draw all these 5,248, that's not hard to lose at all, especially in a low turnout. You know, if you put up.

[Abdul El Sayed]

If you put up some like knuckle dragging freak.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, right. Like yeah, you only need. Who was a guy's name Todd Aiken. You only needed. You only need an Aiken or two or Roy Moore and all of a sudden you know, you've got some Doug Joneses, you know, in the US Senate. It can happen. Has happened before.

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[Abdul El Sayed]

A foot washed up, a shoe with.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Abdul El Sayed]

They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

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[Sagar Enjeti]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

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On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's get to the next part here. My old friend Andrew Schultz, perhaps you know, we're just covering this just broadly as some of the podcast guys continue to break here with Donald Trump. Let's go and put this one up there on the screen. This is from screenshots from Andrew Schultz's Instagram. He says, quote, you don't break your word. Your word breaks you. And this is from a Washington Post article from our friend Jeff Stein. It says Trump promised to mandate IVF care. The White House says there's no plans to do so. He continues talking about some assistance, IVF assistance grants to a private charity, saying real Donald Trump flip flop once again on a campaign promise. This was kind of a core issue for him because him and his wife had fertility struggles, which he talks openly about in his. He talks openly about in his special, which everybody can go watch. But this was a good peg just to the actual, the actual announcement. Let's go hear from Jeff Stein, who followed up on this in an excellent story over at the Washington Post. It says the White House does not plan to require health insurers to provide coverage for in vitro fertilization services to people with knowledge of the internal discussion said even though the idea was one of Donald Trump's key campaign pledges last year, he said if he returned to office, the government would either pay for IVF or issue rules requiring insurance companies to cover treatment for it. Pledge came as Trump faced political blowback over the abortion issue. Quote, the government is going to pay for it or we're going to get it, we'll mandate your insurance company to pay for it, which is going to be great. We're going to do that. He said in August of 2024. We want to produce more babies in this country. Right. And if you continue to look here, you know, kind of broadly within all of this is that you actually had a kind of silent move against IVF by a lot of the most pro life elements. So, for example, Katie Britt, the senator from Alabama just last year introduced legislation to withhold Medicaid funding to bar to any state that bars IVF after that Alabama law. But nobody has actually introduced legislation for IVF that has any sizable constituency in the Senate. And in fact, they're pointing instead to some of the other things that they had in the big beautiful bill for why it will be pronatalist while walking away from the IVF promise. So I mean, that is one I don't know. I'm trying to Andrew, obviously it's a very personal issue, so that's part of the reason he's speaking out against it. But I can't help but think that that moderation from Trump did play some role in him allowing him to win the popular vote on the even after a midterm election which had abortion was a massive issue.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Right?

[Krystal Ball]

Massive issue, yes.

[Abdul El Sayed]

And if the context was that you mentioned this Alabama Supreme Court ruling that was just absolutely bananas saying, you know, that basically was shutting down IVF treatment in Alabama by saying that, you know, every frozen embryo represented some first degree murderer of a person. And so Republicans were on their heels there. And Trump responded by saying he's going to be the most pro IVF president in history and in fact going to be IVF for all, free IVF for everybody. And it's now if it wasn't, I was at the time exposed as just ruthlessly cynical, just, just a complete lie that he told to, to get, get over a political, what he saw as a political speed bump. He just hit the gas boom, drove right over it without any concern for what that did to raise the hopes of people who like, for, for, for those who are trying to conceive and can, it's a, it's, it's, it's an existential thing. It's, it's spiritually debilitating month after month to go through that. And then you layer on top of that the prohibitive costs of it on top of the like spiritual emotional turmoil that it takes and the toll that it takes and then to then just say Ah, actually, never mind. You thought it was serious.

[Krystal Ball]

See, that's why I think in a way, it actually is important at a cultural level. Because if it's just same old boss, you know, new boss, same as the old boss, that's not good. The old boss was not popular. For Republicans, Trump's political strength was being a, quote, moderating influence or appearing moderating to a lot of people who are low information voters who are like, yeah, he was responsible for abortion, but he doesn't read to me like a Christian evangelical or any of that. He said he wants free ivf. That sounds pretty good to me. Right. And so then to explicitly, the White House now coming out and saying, actually we have no plans to require anybody to, to do it. It would probably require legislation, or at the very least they could try and do it through executive order and quietly kind of just let it drift away. I do think it's a problem, especially and ironic. Right. Whenever you have an administration which is talking about like, oh, we need more babies, we need to increase fertility. And then the only example now so far are these Trump baby, which, by the way, my child is eligible for. So I'm gonna set mine up soon. My Trump account. Thank you, President Trump, for the US$1,000. It appears that it will compound to a whopping 3,300 if I invested in the S&P 500. So you can use it to, I mean, with inflation.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Buy a book.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, with inflation, you buy a science textbook, you know, for college, I'll take free money. All right? Everybody should. But, you know, not exactly game changing in terms of having a child or any of that, is it belongs to the child. It's not like it covers health care costs or any of that. And what's interesting in the story that Jeff points about is that under the Obamacare exchanges, which cover some 50 million Americans, including yours truly, they have the ability through rules, to enforce different things that they can and cannot cover. My guess, Ryan, is that they, most likely, because they're still committed to a lot of this free market bullshit, is that they realized how much of an increase it would cause in premiums. And also, as you and I know, at the same time that this is all having a discussion in double digit premium hikes are currently expected for a lot of the Obamacare exchanges sometime in the next two years because of the stripping of subsidies. Yeah, so, I mean, that's kind of the news just broadly for the IVF healthcare conversation. But I mean, listen, I guess it'll just continue to simmer underneath until anybody does anything about it. Currently they're focused on pharmaceuticals, sending demand letters to Swiss companies. You must lower your drug prices or something like that. And it's like, okay, well, easier way is to force Medicare, right? You know, to just say, hey, this is what we're going to pay for your drugs. Take it or leave it. You know, screw off. But apparently that's not what they want to do, right?

[Abdul El Sayed]

Well, it ain't free to occupy Gaza.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, right. Yeah, that's right.

[Abdul El Sayed]

We can't really afford to do everything.

[Krystal Ball]

That's what we need to raise all of our money for. Makes a lot of sense. All right, we've got Abdul El Sayed standing by. Let's get to it.

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[Ryan Grim]

It's the biggest party of the summer. WWE SummerSlam is here and wrestling with Freddy is all over it. We're talking wild matches, big surprises and our boldest predictions yet. From celebrity showdowns to the chaos inside a steel cage, we're breaking down every match and calling who we think walks out on top. This card is loaded from Cody Rhodes, John Cena, Rhea Ripley and Tiffy, just to name a few. This lineup is ready to tear down the house. We'll give you our unfiltered takes, honest debates and you already know a ton of laughs along the way. We're covering the upsets, the wild returns and the championship moments. Nobody expects we'll get into the matches that steal the show, the storylines that explode, and those oh my God, did that just happen moments that make SummerSlam legendary. Don't miss it. Listen to Wrestling with Freddie as part of the My Coultera Podcast network. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Abdul El Sayed]

A foot washed up, a shoe with.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Some bones in it.

[Abdul El Sayed]

They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Freddy Prinze Jr.]

These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case.

[Krystal Ball]

That has DNA right now in a.

[Freddy Prinze Jr.]

Backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools. They're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Freddy Prinze Jr.]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Joining us now is Dr. Abdul El Sayed, a doctor from Michigan and former gubernatorial candidate. He's now running in the Senate Democratic primary in Michigan. Abdul, thanks so much for joining us.

[Krystal Ball]

Good to see you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's always a privilege to be with you guys. Thank you for having me.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Absolutely. And so I covered your race back in 2018. I remember this one dearly. You had this bizarre case of Sri Thravana. I forget his last name. He's now a member of Congress. We can talk to him, talk about him in a moment. Was a front runner in the race until he completely fell apart, exposed basically for fraud. And Gretchen Whitmer and you were then the kind of remaining viable candidates. And she ends up winning the race, becoming Michigan governor now kicked around as this national figure. You're coming back in a bid for Senate. What are the differences that you've seen on the ground in this cycle versus 2018 and what makes it plausible for you this time?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Ryan, I appreciate you covering the race then and it's great to talk to you again. Now, I said something at the time that I think in the zeitgeist folks weren't quite ready to hear, which is that Donald Trump himself is not the disease in our politics. He's just the worst symptom of the disease. And the disease is a system by which corporations and billionaires and would be oligarchs can buy, politicians, buy access to regulation that they basically roll back in ways that empower huge corporations in our lives so that they can suppress the wages we earn and charge us more for the things that we have to buy from them. And I think eight years on, people are a lot more willing to see that, both because Trump got reelected. So we dealt with the symptom, but it came back roaring because we never dealt with the disease, and also because things have just gotten harder for people, whether it is inflation, whether it is the fact that the economy has made it so that the job you worked yesterday is just less secure for you tomorrow. Whether it's the impossibility of ever imagining you could buy a home if you're under the age of 35 or how hard it's been to stay in your home. And if you're over the age of 65, it's the incredible medical debt that people have accrued $225 billion, which is more than the GDP of the majority of US states. All of that has just made it harder to get by. I've been to 40 some different cities across my state and no matter where I go, people just tell me, look, it just shouldn't be this hard. And I agree, which is why I'm running.

[Krystal Ball]

So, Doctor, I have a question for you about the your potential role if you were to win the primary and to get elected. We had potential future colleague on Alyssa Slotkin here on our show and she would not commit to new leadership in the Democratic Party. I know you've spoken about that with Chuck Schumer. So give us an idea of the type of candidates that you would support for Democratic leader and why you think that's important.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I've got a clear set of things that I want to accomplish for Michiganders and for the American public. The first is I want money, particularly corporate money and special interest money out of politics. The second is I want to put more money in people's pockets by standing up to big corporations and trusts, making it easier to build and scale a small business, make it easier to join and form a union. And I want to pass Medicare for all. And whoever it is who's given me the best commitment to standing for those causes and giving us the best chance at passing that legislation. They're going to earn my vote. Look, I've got a lot of questions about current leadership, but I'm not willing to tell you I'm going this way or the other without knowing who my options are. Because if they give me John Fetterman, I'm certainly not voting for him. So all of that is to say that I'm going to vote my conscience based on what I'm seeing. The last point here that I also have to call out is the fact that we've got to be honest about how we are misappropriating our money abroad, sending blank checks to fund genocides abroad, when we've got hungry kids here at home who deserve so much more and so much better. So rather than starving kids abroad, I want to feed our starving kids here at home. And so I'm going to support leadership that understands that has ha. That has the moral clarity on those issues. And I'm going to make a choice between the options that I've got for folks who are vying for that leadership.

[Abdul El Sayed]

I want to briefly play a clip from Cory Booker speaking about Zoran Mamdani, because I think that his race in New York plays an interesting role in this Michigan race that I'll ask about. But first, let's roll this Booker clip.

[Sagar Enjeti]

F1 Donnie, are you going to support him?

[Abdul El Sayed]

I have learned a long time ago, let New York politics be New York politics. We got enough challenges in Jersey. I got a governor's race. I'm supporting Mikey Sherrill. I got legislative races.

[Krystal Ball]

That's where my energy's gonna go going into November.

[Ryan Grim]

New York City, I love you.

[Abdul El Sayed]

You're my neighbor. You're about 10 miles from where I live. You guys figure out your elections, I'm gonna focus on mine. I mean, normally a Democratic politician asked about the Democratic nominee next door says, yeah, of course I support the Democratic nominee. Hakeem Jeffries has declined to do so. Chuck Schumer, tons of other top Democrats have declined to do so. When I watch you campaigning out in Michigan, not only on the substance of your campaign, but also on the style of it, it feels similar. Like you're out there on TikTok and Instagram, some quick cut edits talking to people on the ground. Mamdani kind of launched his campaign just talking to people for several months, asking them, you know, why did you vote for Donald Trump, for instance? What was it that made you do that when you hadn't voted for him in the past? So how, how has, how, how do you see yourself in relation to Mamdani, and how has his victory kind of influenced the Michigan race?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Ryan, let me give you a perspective from on the ground in Michigan, because I've been to 40 plus different cities now, done over 100 events in our state, and everywhere I go, it's this fascinating thing, because when I talk to Democrats over the age of 50. They're astounded that they see Democrats under the age of 50 at my events. And they're always like, how'd you do it? How'd you get the young people out? And I'm like, well, I'm talking about the issues that young people are facing in the language that young people are using about what they'd like to see as solutions. I'm talking about things like Medicare for all. I'm talking about housing affordability. I'm talking about AI coming for their jobs in ways that could indelibly change our economy because of the weird incentives we've created around the system, because, again, it's driven by corporate greed and corporate profits. And so, yeah, they're coming because they see themselves in our political movement. And one of the interesting things that I think all Democrats should be paying attention to is we've lost young people. It's been a slow trickle, and now it's almost like a breaking of a dam when you look at 2024. So we probably want to pay attention to elections where young people turned out. And the most interesting thing about that New York Democratic primary is that there was an inversion of the usual demographics of the race. You saw young people coming out and voting at higher rates than their elders. That doesn't usually happen in our politics, particularly in Democratic primaries. So I would imagine that any Democrat who's committed to the future of the party would be committed to those people who are literally have the highest stake in that future, who are young people and would want to learn a thing or two or get behind a movement that that is including those young people in our politics. We're doing that here. We learned a lot from how they did that in New York. And if young people don't turn out for what you're talking about, you really, really need to think about the sustainability of what you're building.

[Krystal Ball]

Doctor, if you want to win this race, you're going to have to win a state where Donald Trump won by some 1.4% in 2024. What's your diagnosis of what the Democrats did wrong in 2024 to lose to Donald Trump?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Look, I. I'm really thinking about the lessons we can learn, and I think the challenge that we've had too often is that Democrats haven't been willing to actually go out and talk about the issues that people are facing. I think we tend to think about these elections in terms of left and right, but that's, frankly, a manufactured lens for the consumption of people who think about politics as a hobby. I don't think about left and right, and I don't think most voters think about left and right. I think about whether or not our politics service the people who've been locked out of the system or they service the people who have locked him out. And I think what they're seeing in our movement and the reason we're getting such a diverse grouping of people, people who voted for Donald Trump and people who have never voted in their lives at our events, is because we're talking to the people who have been locked out in language that critiques and identifies why they've been locked out and what it means to build a system where they are also included. If we're able to do that, I think we can win. And I hate to say it, Democrats too often have cosplayed the folks who have locked people out. They assiduously avoid issues that are really important to everyday people but are uncomfortable to talk about. And I hate to say it, when it comes to Donald Trump, he's usually pretty good at just saying what comes to his mind, however insane and driven by his narcissism that it is. But it doesn't feel like he's trying to lock you out of something, even though his politics have done exactly that. And his policies have been terrible for a lot of these folks who have been locked out. So we've got to go where people are. We've got to speak in language that addresses the challenges that they face. They have to see themselves as part of our movement. And if we do that, we win. And more importantly, we can win the future of our politics. Giving people more health care rather than taking away, making sure that the rich, the ultra rich, pay their fair share, rather than being in a situation where they are keeping more and more of the value that's created by everyday folks who just want to be able to get by.

[Abdul El Sayed]

So there haven't been many polls in your race, but the ones that have been conducted seem to have you and Congresswoman Haley Stevens kind of neck and neck. And then you've got state senator, I think, former Media Matters person who's down at maybe 10 or 11%. Stevens had the support, strong support of AIPAC and enormous amount of money in her last race to beat a Democrat to get back into Congress. What is your plan if major AIPAC money comes in to Michigan heading into the primary?

[Sagar Enjeti]

So I'll say a couple things about this. First and foremost, I've been clear and I'm not afraid of aipac, because to me, My moral integrity means everything. And I think any Democrat today should agree that MAGA billionaire money flooding Democratic primaries should not be what dictates who comes out of Democratic primaries. I want that to be something that everybody agrees to. Now, I know that others are probably not, but also say this, that on the merits of the issue, we have been watching as our taxpayer dollars have been subsidizing a genocide perpetrated by the most extreme element of another country who's received blank checks from us for a very long time. I think people look at their kids, schools, they look at their healthcare centers, they look at at their infrastructure and they ask, why are we sending money over there to bomb out other people's infrastructures and their schools and kill their kids when we could be invested in our own children here at home? And there's something about the obvious nature of what is being done over there that I think a lot of Democrats ought to pay attention to. Because here's the thing about it. If you're not willing to see truth for truth and address and ask questions about the enforced language that MAGA billionaires try and enforce that on the Democratic Party, then when you walk around saying that you're gonna stand up to corporations and billionaires to make people's lives more affordable, people kind of question whether or not you actually have the fortitude or the moral clarity to do either of those things. And so I'm willing to go toe to toe on this question because I think it's right. And I'm also willing to go toe to toe on this question because it demonstrates that I don't back down to anybody. Whether it's MAGA billionaires funding their money through AIPAC on this question, or it's corporations like pharmaceuticals or insurance companies who want to tell us that we cannot actually have guaranteed healthcare in America. Those questions are one in the same. And I think we win on the courage of our convictions by stating our values clearly and having conversations with people in their VFW halls, their town halls, their living rooms about what we aim to do.

[Krystal Ball]

But doctor, does that include your fellow Democrats? I mean, you can call it MAGA billionaires. I don't think that's necessarily incorrect. There's a lot of Democrats out there who AIPAC recipients, in fact, some of them are in Israel right now on an AIPAC funded trip. Your potential future cop, Alyssa Slotkin was on his show, refused to say the word genocide, waffled a little bit on offensive weapons, actually attended Colbert. Some of this is going to be uncomfortable. It will require you Taking on people in your own party? Is that something that you're willing to do if you're elected?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, I've been willing to do it from day one. To me, it is about what we do to deliver for the people in our state, how we're able to address the fact that their groceries are too expensive, their health care has become unaffordable. It's a principal cause of debt in this country. About how we're willing to stand up to the corporations who have rigged our system and, yes, the special interests who have rigged our system. I'm willing to stand up to anybody and everybody, and I have taken on my own party on this issue. I'm also glad to see that more of my party is starting to find moral clarity on this. But I want to ask us all a big question here. Imagine, rather than in the summer of 2025, all of us were faced with these images of children whose ribs you could see through their skin and had to confront the reality that we were subsidizing a genocide. Imagine, instead of having that moral clarity in the summer of 2025, we had that moral clarity in the summer of 2024. Maybe we would never be in a situation where an extra 10,000 tens of thousands of innocent people were killed. We wouldn't be watching as food was used as a weapon of war. And maybe, just maybe, the clarity on this issue might have changed the outcome of the 2024 election. Look, I endorsed Kamala Harris because I knew that Donald Trump would be worse, whether you're talking from the eyes of a child in Detroit or the eyes of a child in Gaza. But it was so frustrating to watch our party fail to take on the obvious issue of a genocide. And I am hoping that we are learning from this mistake and that we are willing to become the party of peace again. Because, look, my second presidential election was I got to vote for a guy named Barack Hussein Obama who bucked his party on the issue of war in Iraq. I think Democrats want peace. I think Democrats want to be on the right side of history. And I know the Democrats that I'm talking to every day, they want that desperately. And that's what we're talking about. And I think we're gonna win a race because we're willing to have the moral clarity, whether it is against the pharmaceutical corporations who are raising people's drug prices or it's against the subsidies, toward a genocide in Gaza.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Last question for me. Why do you think Trump won the state of Michigan? And what role do you think the genocide did actually play in the final outcome, and in particular, the Democratic support for it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Look, I hate to say it because it is about moral clarity. It is about integrity. It is about strength. For us to say that we're going to stand up to corporate power, or we're going to stand up to lobbyists, or we're going to stand up to the oligarchs who are rigging and dominating our system, you've got to show that you can both see what the problem is and that you're willing to have the strength to take it on. But if you can't see a genocide being perpetrated and you don't have the strength to take it on, it forces people to ask whether or not you actually have the strength to take on all of the folks who have been rigging the system in ways that have made our lives more affordable. So I do think it played a really important role, and it certainly played an important role here in Michigan. But I think Donald Trump won via a combination of things. I think our party wasn't willing to face up to the fact that for far too long, we didn't have a nominee who could withstand the role of the office. His handling of Gaza demonstrated that. I think we weren't able to mount a campaign that was true and honest to our convictions. And I think for a lot of people, they were able to ask, they had to ask themselves, who is actually going to unlock the system that has locked me out? I am so terribly sad as somebody who both endorsed Kamala Harris and understands how dangerous Donald Trump has been, even in his first six months that Donald Trump won that election. And at the same time, the question for Democrats has to be, okay, so how do we go back and get the voters we lost? I think it starts with being 100% honest about what happened in 2024. It starts with being 100% honest about the ways that we were wrong on policy issues that are so clear. And it starts with being 100% honest about what it will take to stand up to corporate and oligopoly power that is rendering people's lives unaffordable for us. To me, as someone who wants to be senator from Michigan, the question for me is always, what do we do with our tax dollars? Can we actually rebuild our schools? Can we provide everybody health care? Can we invest in our infrastructure? Can we make it easier for you to afford your basic needs? And that means that our money should be spent here, and it means that we are willing to stand up to power whether those powerful people may agree with us on some issues or they may not. It is about calling it how you see it and it is about being willing to stand up to the powerful who want to enforce a system that makes you double check or rethink the reality you see with your own eyes.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, well we'll follow your race with great interest. Sir, thank you for joining us.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I appreciate you having me. Thank you so much.

[Krystal Ball]

Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Ryan and Emily and beyond tomorrow. Thank you Ryan. It's great to see you man and have a great Counterpoint show tomorrow.

[Abdul El Sayed]

All right, see you later.

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[Ryan Grim]

We're breaking down SummerSlam, the biggest party of the summer on Wrestling with Freddie. From our bold picks to storyline breakdowns, we will discuss who walks out with gold, who shocks the night and which matches steal the show we call the winners, the upsets and the chaos to expect. Plus whatever swerves nobody saw coming. Listen to Wrestling with Freddy as part of the M Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Freddy Prinze Jr.]

This is an iheart Pod.