8/5/25: Trump Blocks Disaster Relief Over Israel, Bibi Plans Gaza Conquest, Trump Tariffs India Over Russia

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar Episode: August 5, 2025 – "Trump Blocks Disaster Relief Over Israel, Bibi Plans Gaza Conquest, Trump Tariffs India Over Russia"

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Introduction and Welcome (02:01 - 02:43)

Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti kick off the episode by welcoming their guest, Ryan Grimm, highlighting his expertise in gerrymandering and political analysis. The hosts express excitement about the show's direction and the role of independent media in shaping future discourse.

Disaster Relief Funding Controversy (02:43 - 16:28)

Withholding of Disaster Relief Funds:

• Krystal Ball reveals that the Trump administration initially issued guidance to withhold FEMA disaster relief funds from states that supported boycotts of Israel or Israeli companies. (02:51)

  "The federal government doesn't have a lot of roles. We could all probably say disaster relief, you know..." (02:51)

• Ryan Grimm elaborates on the implications, emphasizing the overreach of the federal government in dictating state policies based on international boycotts.

• Policy Details: The original FEMA guidance included language prohibiting states from engaging in boycotts against Israel, effectively tying federal aid to foreign policy stances. A subsequent statement from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) attempted to retract explicit mention of Israel but maintained the overarching policy against boycotts, labeling the BDS movement as antisemitic. (10:37)

  "There is no FEMA requirement tied to Israel and any current, basically guidance..." (10:37)

• Krystal Ball criticizes the policy as un-American and a misuse of federal funds to enforce specific foreign policy agendas.

  "It's preposterous. It's un American." (12:07)

• Public and Political Reaction: The initial outcry led to the removal of explicit language targeting Israel, but the DHS statement suggests the policy's intent remains unchanged, allowing the administration to withhold funds based on boycotts. (11:51)

• Broader Implications: The hosts discuss similar actions in other states, such as Texas and New York, where governors have enforced anti-BDS laws and withheld funds from entities supporting boycotts against Israel. (16:28)

  "This is a right left problem. This is now a Trump problem, and it's just completely absurd." (12:42)

Gerrymandering and Political Influence (02:27 - 04:47)

Gerrymandering Trends:

• Ryan Grimm discusses the rising trend of gerrymandering across the United States, highlighting how both red and blue states are manipulating electoral districts to favor specific political outcomes. Texas Democrats relocating in response to Republican-led gerrymandering efforts are cited as a significant consequence. (02:27)

  "There's a race to the bottom and all that. There's a lot to say." (04:47)

• Krystal Ball acknowledges Ryan's expertise in this area and underscores the unbalanced influence gerrymandering has on democratic processes.

Political Shifts and Policy Failures (16:28 - 35:36)

Netanyahu's Plans for Gaza:

• Krystal Ball and Ryan Grimm delve into Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's announcement to transform the assault on Gaza into a long-term occupation. They debate whether this is a strategic negotiation tactic or a genuine policy shift. (39:20 - 44:43)

  "They are willing to operate in areas where they suspect that hostages are being kept..." (41:58)

• Implications of Occupation: The discussion covers the potential humanitarian crisis, military challenges, and the geopolitical ramifications of a prolonged Israeli occupation of Gaza, including the strain on U.S. support and resources. (44:03 - 46:38)

• Political Maneuvering in Israel: The hosts analyze Netanyahu's internal political struggles, including his attempts to reshape the government, purge the Attorney General, and maintain his right-wing coalition amid corruption trials and military actions. (46:09 - 54:22)

  "It's cartoonish corruption..." (54:22)

Elon Musk and Twitter Sanctions:

• Ryan Grimm discusses the recent sanctioning of Francesca Albanese, a UN Special Rapporteur on Israel-Palestine, by the U.S. government. This sanction led to the removal of her blue check on Twitter, highlighting perceived overreach and politicization of social media platforms. (30:47 - 32:15)

  "Taking the blue check." (31:44)

Trade Wars and Tariffs: India and Russia (35:36 - 78:09)

Trump's Escalation of Tariffs on India:

• Krystal Ball reports on President Trump's decision to significantly increase tariffs on India, citing India's purchases of Russian oil as the primary reason. This action is framed as an attempt to pressure India into aligning more closely with U.S. foreign policy objectives regarding Ukraine. (56:17 - 77:58)

  "We're going to raise that very substantially over the next 24 hours because they're buying Russian oil, they're fueling the war machine..." (61:12)

• Analysis of Trade Implications: The hosts critique the logic and effectiveness of using tariffs as a tool for foreign policy, arguing that such measures could damage vital economic relationships without significantly impacting the conflict in Ukraine.

  "The policy makes no sense. It's computed stupidly..." (77:43)

• International Reactions: The Indian Foreign Ministry's response is discussed, emphasizing India's necessity-driven imports of Russian oil and criticizing the U.S. and EU for their inconsistent trade policies, especially given their substantial trade with Russia. (69:31 - 70:53)

  "India is a huge trading partner. Do you like generic pharmaceuticals?" (68:02)

• Broader Foreign Policy Concerns: Krystal and Ryan highlight the cohort of U.S. policies that prioritize specific international conflicts (Israel-Palestine, Ukraine) over maintaining stable and beneficial relationships with key allies like India and Japan, raising concerns about the long-term ramifications of such an approach.

Humanitarian Issues and War Crimes (39:21 - 57:52)

Civilian Casualties and Medical Targeting in Gaza:

• The hosts express outrage over reports of aid drops causing civilian casualties, including the accidental killing of medical professionals and aid workers in Gaza. (57:04 - 57:52)

  "There are many of these air drops that have killed a lot of people..." (57:52)

• Krystal Ball calls for accountability and questions the strategic decisions behind the predominantly destructive approaches in the conflict, emphasizing the humanitarian toll and ethical concerns.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts (78:09 - End)

Summary of Key Issues:

• The episode underscores the intertwining of U.S. domestic policies with international conflicts, questioning the efficacy and morality of leveraging federal funds and trade policies to influence foreign nations' stances.

• Krystal and Ryan highlight the growing trend of governmental overreach, both in disaster relief and international trade, arguing that these actions undermine democratic principles and economic stability.

• The ongoing conflict in Israel-Palestine and Ukraine serves as a focal point for discussing broader themes of political corruption, military aggression, and the manipulation of international relations for personal and political gain.

Notable Quotes:

• "It's preposterous. It's un American." — Krystal Ball (12:07)

• "You're not making money at 25 or at 50." — Ryan Grimm (76:53)

• "We could all probably say disaster relief, you know..." — Krystal Ball (02:51)

• "But these pro Israel pressure groups reached out with lawyers to Twitter to get her blue check. Are you joking?" — Ryan Grimm (31:44)

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on a transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and viewpoints presented in the podcast episode "Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar" released on August 5, 2025.

Transcript

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[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

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[Host 1]

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[Krystal Ball]

That has DNA right now in a.

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[Krystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sager and Krystal here.

[Host 2]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Host 2]

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[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail]. good morning, everybody. Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. Bro show. Ryan Grimm is in the house. It's great to see you, Ryan. Thank you for joining us.

[Ryan Grimm]

Always a pleasure.

[Krystal Ball]

Absolutely. He's got his painted fingernail, the mark of a girl. Dad. I'm sure I'll be there in a few years there, Ryan.

[Ryan Grimm]

You'll come back from vacation.

[Krystal Ball]

Back from vacation with your fingernails all pointed. Kids hands are all wrapped in band aids, so can't wait for it. It's going to be exc. All right, what do we got today? Toughest part of the job. We're gonna talk about disaster funding, aren't we? This is an interesting story. I found myself actually at the center of it doing some reporting. So initial report from the Trump administration. They would withhold disaster relief funds from any state that allowed the boycott of Israel. Not just Israel, but Israeli companies. There's been some changes to that official language. However, the policy itself is still reserved the right of the Trump administration, the Department of Homeland Security to do so. That's a troubling trend of a boycot basically using states, 39 states with anti quote BDS laws on the books that are now being weaponized against U.S. citizens for their own tax dollars. That's obviously a good segue into our Israel segment. I'm gonna rely on Ryan heavily there. There are some reports coming out of Israel. Netanyahu has approved a quote, full scale occupation of Gaza. What does that mean? Is it a negotiation tactic? We'll see. We're gonna talk about India. The Trump administration escalating a trade war on India. Not, by the way, anything about our country and how, you know our country' would work with that country. Non tariff barriers, et cetera. But it's about Ukraine. Interesting. Which obviously is an easy way to talk about some of the developments in that war. Ukrainians now allowing 60 year olds to join the fight. So obviously the sign of a thriving war machine over there. We're also gonna talk about gerrymandering. Gerrymandering sweeping the country. Texas Democrats leaving the state after Texas Republicans attempt to basically change the districts inside of the state, try to gerrymander away a few Democratic seats. This has actually caused some brinksmansh. New York and California saying, okay, fine, one party states, let's game on. So it's a race to the bottom and all that. There's a lot to say. Ryan is actually an expert on gerrymandering or at least much more of an expert than I am. So you don't want to wasted a.

[Ryan Grimm]

Lot of time covering, I was gonna say.

[Krystal Ball]

I'll say that there's a lot of time in the 2010s when gerrymandering was the top era where Ryan in particular cut his teeth. So I'm gonna rely on him. And then my friend Andrew Schultz breaking with Donald Trump on ivf. Obviously, that was a big, well, not breaking with asking Donald Trump why he decided not follow through with his pledge to provide, quote, free ivf. It was a campaign promise and it was kind of a signature way that they were trying to move away from the more, I guess, what distasteful parts of the pro life coalition. So that's what they landed on. And we'll see if it actually does have some electoral pushback now that the GOP officially has zero plans to cover free ivf. And finally, we're gonna be joined by Abdul El Sayed. He is running for the Democratic primary in the state of Michigan. Ryan, we're gonna get his reaction to the Alyssa Slotkin interview and a few other.

[Ryan Grimm]

He's running to be her colleague.

[Krystal Ball]

He's running to be her colleague. Does he think his colleague did well? Future colleague did well here? He's gonna have to navigate a lot of very tricky issues here in Washington. You know, being a senator, is he gonna vote for Chuck Schumer for leadership? You know, how is he gonna handle himself? Obviously, you've got a lot of Democrats which are very angry. He's running in this primary system right now. But once you get to the big leagues, how are you gonna handle the John Fettermans, the Alyssa Slotkins and all that in the world? So we got some good questions for him. All right. So before we get to that, though, thank you everybody to our premium subscribers, which let' a deep apology for yesterday. So the team has fully informed us and we've gotten to the bottom of it. Here's basically the TL Dr. Our premium show did not go out when it was supposed to. We're deeply sorry about that. Basically, locals and rumble servers, it appears like melted yesterday. And our email was not going out properly despite the fact that our show was ready mostly on time, even though it was like a two and a half hour or whatever type show. We are gonna change some things about the way that notification in the event of a late show or a technical malfunction. So we're very, very sorry to all of our premium subscribers. Just please do know that you guys are always at the top of our thoughts and we apologize for the way that it all rolled out. And I guess that's a good segue of why you should support Premium, right? Because you know it'll be better. It'll be better. We promise it'll be better. I don't know what to say. Breakingpoints.com if you could support us, just know that we're working on it. It's a small team here and we are always at the mercy of these bigger companies and their servers. Some days it' or a lot of times it's YouTube as well. Spotify has been dragging their ass in terms of getting our stuff up on their RSS feed. I mean we're trying our best. We're dealing with multi gigabyte files and all this. The show has to be delivered to all these different places so the technical people in our audience will understand. But we're trying our best. I promise you. BreakingPoints.com if you're able to help us out. But with that let's get with the disaster relief funding. So let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. Absolute major outcry yesterday after the Trump administration put out a FEMA guidance. And let me just keep this up here while I'm talking just to explain how absolutely crazy this is. So FEMA put out a guidance, Ryan, to all states that who want to accept disaster relief grants. Which, you know, all of them. I would say all of them. And you know, even the libertarians would.

[Ryan Grimm]

Be like, all right, start tax money.

[Krystal Ball]

The federal government, you know, the federal government doesn't have a lot of roles. We could all probably say disaster relief, you know, broadly one of those, oh.

[Ryan Grimm]

A trust for like five. We're not to going, FEMA's not going.

[Krystal Ball]

To do anything anymore. So but I'm saying first disaster. If you were to ask most people what the role of federal government is, it's like, hey, if you get hit by a hurricane, you know they're going to come in and help you. We all pay into the system. System helps us out whenever that happens. Well, the Trump administration slipped in this exact language into these FEMA grants and I'm going to read directly just so you all understand how absolutely crazy it is. It says that by accepting recipients will comply with all applicable federal anti discrimination laws material to the government's payments decisions for purposes of 31 USC 372 quote definitions as used in this class. DEI means diversity, equity inclusion. DEIA means diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility. Discriminatory equity ideology has a meaning set forth and they talk about an executive order. So so far they're saying you can't have DEI policies on the books. If you want to this disaster relief funding, okay, I'm totally fine with that. But then subpart D says here, quote, discriminatory prohibited boycott means refusing to deal, cutting commercial relations or otherwise limiting commercial relations, specifically with Israeli companies or with companies doing business in or with Israel or authorized by, licensed by or organized under the laws of Israel to do business. So let's underscore that is the Trump administration was telling states, if you allow the boycott of Israel, if you allow the boycott of Israeli companies, if you allow the boycott of companies doing business with Israel, you as a United States citizen and as a state will be barred from your tax dollars from getting disaster relief funding. Now, this was, Ryan, I think just too much for everybody involved. And so what ensued was a fascinating about face, which is not really an about face, which takes us to the next one. Let's put that up there on the screen. Shortly after many of us drew, you know, basically had outcry about this, drew attention, the Trump administration removed that exact language about discriminatory boycotts against the state of Israel. I have the original and the new.

[Ryan Grimm]

By the way, do we have Rufo here?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, well, I didn't originally have it in, but people like Christopher Rufo is.

[Ryan Grimm]

A d. Anti D. He quote, tweeted yours.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right. Hey, even this is not good. And Ryan, I just want your reaction here now because they've come full circle, even though they did remove this anti discriminatory language about the state of Israel. Put the next one up here on the screen just so I can very clearly explain. The DHS put out this statement. Quote, there is no FEMA requirement tied to Israel and any current, basically guidance. No states have lost funding. No new conditions have been imposed. FEMA grants remain governed by existing law and policy and not political litmus tests. Quote, DHS will enforce all anti discrimination laws and policies, including as it relates to the BDS movement, which is expressly grounded in antisemitism. So my explanation, based on my reporting, talking with many of the people involved, is that after the outcry, they removed the specific language about Israel. But the DHS statement makes it clear they reserve the right to deny you your federal funding should you engage in bds. And I mean, Ryan, I just.

[Ryan Grimm]

The last line there.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grimm]

Those who engage in racial discrimination should not receive a single dollar of federal funding. That sounds like Biden.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, in actual racial discrimination. Sure. If it's about bds. No. And obviously that's why the languages matter. And that's why, Ryan, I just think.

[Ryan Grimm]

This is not racial discrimination.

[Krystal Ball]

I know that you and I know that. All right, These terms all used to things and they don't anymore. But Ryan, this is just such a dramatic outrage to say that they would withhold federal funding based upon boycotting the state of Israel to any state. And you know, the fact is, is that, look, yeah, it's great they removed the language. The fact it was in the first place is insane. And then the fact that the DHS basically put out a statement saying we reserve the right to do so if we would like to shows us that the policy effectively remains in effect today. It's preposterous. It's un American.

[Ryan Grimm]

It's the exact same policy because the states have been put on notice by that DHS statement that they put out on Twitter there that they believe that the law, as it's written, gives them the right to withhold aid money from any state that involves itself in a boycott of Israeli companies.

[Krystal Ball]

And not even involves. Itself allows. Allows its state's residents to engage in boycotts.

[Ryan Grimm]

Right. And so are they saying that. And we can put. Put these up next if we want the list of states or, you know, more than 30 states across the country.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grimm]

Have laws on the books that say that if you want to do any business with that state whatsoever, which means, like, you know, a lot of contractors that work for you may work for a private company that itself does some other contracting with the state. Set aside being a teacher or some other obvious state employee, that if you participate in bds, you can't participate in this work in your own society, that you pledge that you will never boycott. Which then the line in there that says you won't even limit your. So what if you're like, well, I was going to do 10 orders of hummus for this party, but I think I might only need five. And they're like, wait a minute now, do you really only need five or are you limiting your purchase of hummus?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, what's preposterous about it is that it includes Israeli companies, companies doing business with Israel, as you said. What is the state going to come in and be like, you're not doing enough business with Israel.

[Ryan Grimm]

Do more business.

[Krystal Ball]

You need to do more business with Israel. Who's telling me that as a private business, who or what I can do business with with ever I want? Also, we'll all. That conservatives gleefully supported the boycott of Bud Light. Right. Okay.

[Ryan Grimm]

You should be able to.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. As you should Be able to or what Ben and Jerry said that they don't want to do. Fine, whatever, you know, you don't want to buy Ben and Jerry's ice cream, be my guest. All right. You know, same. I could go on forever. The conservatives. Target. Who? They went after Target. Right. All right, fine. Don't shop at Target. That's okay.

[Ryan Grimm]

And then shop at any place Target too.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, good.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah, you know, same or Target.

[Krystal Ball]

No, not poor Target. We don't need any more. All right. That's the message to my wife. We need to stop going to Target. All right. Why are they obsessed with it?

[Ryan Grimm]

It's too much junk in Target.

[Krystal Ball]

There's too much bullshit in Target. I totally agree, but my point just broadly is that we should, of course, as private businesses and as citizens be allowed to do whatever we wanna do. And part of the reason why this is so ridiculous is that we could simultaneously refuse to do business with any other country. It's a carve out here specifically for the state of Israel. So us as a private business. Ryan could refuse to do business with Peru or. I don.

[Ryan Grimm]

Not Lithuania. They're a strong ally of us.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's right. As Lissa Slotkin made very clear in our interview.

[Ryan Grimm]

But you can boycott Russia.

[Krystal Ball]

You could boycott Russia.

[Ryan Grimm]

You can pour their vodka right out on the sidewalk.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, Smirnoff. Is that still Russian owned? I don't know, but yeah. All right. You can, if you want to.

[Ryan Grimm]

You can boycott Ukraine.

[Krystal Ball]

Huh?

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah, boycott Ukraine. If you want to make your neighbors in the suburbs angry.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right.

[Ryan Grimm]

You can do that. I will.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I can't. Well, that would require boycotting a Ukrainian company, which, you know, I can't even think of any. But my point stands for.

[Ryan Grimm]

So is the question then that you actually have to pass a law like that? If it says that if you allow your citizens to boycott Israel, that you don't get this aid money, does that mean you have to join these other 30 plus states and implement your own anti BDS law or else you can't get this aid money? It's truly extraordinary.

[Krystal Ball]

And it all fits with a bigger pattern. This is something that red states have now been doing for quite some time. Let's put this A five, please, up on the screen. This just came a few months ago. Governor Abbott, Greg Abbott of the state of Texas sent a letter to the city of San Marcos condemning a proposed antisemitics resolution. According to him, openly flouting Texas law. It says here, quote, israel is a stalwart ally of the United States. And a friend to Texas. I have repeatedly made it clear Texas will not tolerate antisemitism, quote, anti Israel. Are we seeing how these things are getting conflated? Anti Israel policies are, quote, anti Texas policies. Over a year ago, following Hamas's attacks, openly celebrating, I issued an executive order addressing anti Semitism in higher education. And I have proudly signed legislation prohibiting government entities from supporting efforts to boycott, divest and sanction Israel. That remains the law here. In the letter, Governor Abbott noting San Marcos is required to certify it will comply with all state laws when it enters into grant agreements with its office, including laws prohibiting government support for boycotts of Israel. And the governor's office is reviewing active grants to determine whether the city has breached these terms. If the city adopts this anti Semitic resolution, the office of the governor will immediately terminate all active grants not in compliance with state law. By the way, I've been to San Marcos, great city. You know, there's a lot of some fun water parks and other things down there, rivers, et cetera. Nice part of the state. What in its governance has anything to do with the state of Israel? And the governor of Texas is withholding funds based upon the city of San Marcos position on Israel and Palestine in a non binding local resolution.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah. And the city voted it down so as not to bring on the wrath of the governor of Texas. All the resolution said, by the way, was there should be a ceasefire.

[Krystal Ball]

That's it.

[Ryan Grimm]

The citizens of San Marcos support a ceasefire. And also what it did is it calculated the percentage of state and federal money that goes to Israel and then divided it basically and figured out what proportion San Marcos citizens were chipping in on that. And they said, we object to this. Like we don't want to be funding this. They were not. They have no capacity to claw that money back like that. That wasn't even what was happening. In other words, they were not allowed to say in a non binding way that they disagreed with what was happening. With no teeth at all.

[Krystal Ball]

Got it.

[Ryan Grimm]

Just they were not allowed to publicly voice their opinion on the question or else they would lose all of these state contracts.

[Krystal Ball]

Wow.

[Ryan Grimm]

Like that's it. They weren't actually going to take any bombs away from Israel.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. What are they going to do? It's the city of San Marcos. They've got the river. It's a population. I just looked at 94,000 people. All right. And if they want to pass some non binding resolution, whatever. All right. I mean, you know, it shouldn't have any. Had any cities and this. Yeah. People do it all the time. And just so people know, it's not just red states that's happening. These are some of the biggest states in the country. Let's put this up there on the screen. This is from January of 2025. Kathy Hochul and the New York governor actually condemned the NYC University System faculty Union for an Israel boycott. So again, a resolution passed by the Sunni Professional Staff Congress, representing its 30,000 members, puts its organization at odds with the university administration and the state government. The union, again a union of the professors at suny, had a resolution, quote, citing the death toll in Gaza, talking about the ICC and International Court of Justice as reason for a boycott. The resolution then said that this small student or this small professorial union will divest itself from investment vehicles with Israeli corporate stocks. Okay. I mean, again, we're talking about 30,000 people pooled funds. What is it, a couple million dollars? Let's be honest, you know, in terms of not a lot of hummus, it's not a lot of sabra. All right? And it called on the Teachers Retirement System to, quote, enact a complete divestment of Israel. Okay? So that resolution passes by a vote of 73 to 70. The union confirms the New York governor then comes out and says exclusively in a statement to the Times of Israel, in my first week as governor, I signed an executive order to divest public funds from institutions that participate in the harmful BDS movement. And that order remains in effect. I strongly oppose the resolution narrowly passed by delegates and will continue standing up against anti Semitism and hate in all forms. So the New York Democratic governor and the Texas Republican governor have two things in common. They have BDS executive orders that were very quickly signed. You know, in these two states we have a blue state and a red state here. Just to show you how big of a problem this entire thing is.

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[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

It's the biggest party of the summer. WWE SummerSlam is here and wrestling with Freddie is all over it. We're talking wild matches, big surprises, and our boldest predictions yet. Yet from celebrity showdowns to the chaos inside a steel cage, we're breaking down every match and calling who we think walks out on top. This card is loaded from Cody Rhodes, John Cena, Rhea, Ripley and Tiffy, just to name a few. This lineup is ready to tear down the house. We'll give you our unfiltered takes, honest debates, and you already know, a ton of laughs along the way. We're covering the upsets, the wild returns, and the championship moments. Nobody expects we'll get into the matches that that steal the show, the storylines that explode and those oh my God, did that just happen? Moments that make SummerSlam legendary. Don't miss it. Listen to Wrestling with Freddy as part of the My Cultura Podcast network. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Grimm]

A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

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[Krystal Ball]

Finally, Ryan, can you explain this next one to us? Let's put it up there on the screen. This is from the Institute for Pure and applied mathematic at UCLA. A7, please. And Ryan's gonna explain to us what happened.

[Ryan Grimm]

This one is truly enraging from top to bottom and this is Paul Graham had shared this post from Terence Tao, who is a UCLA mathematician who has broadly agreed to be the greatest or at least one of the top three mathematicians of the last 50 years. This is a guy who has. And nobody wants to hear me attempt to describe the mathematics that he has, that the kind of breakthroughs that he has rendered in mathematics.

[Krystal Ball]

People say he's good.

[Ryan Grimm]

All right, look it up. Suffice it to say it's some incredible stuff that has actual. That has led to. And I was looking up last night, what he has done is theoretical. But his theoretical advances have led to a MRI machines working 10 times better than they would otherwise because of the expanded capacity to do visioning. And when it comes to all sorts of other practical applications, advances in mathematics help in ways that we can't even begin to understand. And if we don't have those advances, then we don't get those technological advances either. And that's for the people who are like, well, who cares about math, like, whether it's, like, applied or pure? So this guy has been a full professor at ucla since the 90s, when he was 24, the youngest person to ever become a full professor at ucla. He is known throughout his field for his collaborative work. Hundreds of papers, more than 60 of them are with other mathematicians. So he's the kind of guy that is working with others to lift people up. What he announced here is that he's now lost all of his funding through the NSF and NIH because he's a UCLA professor, he'll still have his UCLA salary. So it's not like he personally is being fired as a result of this. But what it means is that all of his grad students are now unfunded. And if you think about who his grad students are, these are the up and coming best mathematicians in the world. Because if you're a math prodigy anywhere in the world, you want to work with Terrence Dowd, like, this is the guy. Because not only is he a genius ten times over, but he's collaborative and he loves working with people. What he wrote in his post here is that he had already had a bunch of his grants cut earlier when Doge was coming through. And so what he did is he took all of his own funding and deferred it. So he's like, I don't need any money for myself. I want all the money that was coming to me to go to my grad students so that they can stay on for a little while longer. And now they've come back and they've cut that, too.

[Krystal Ball]

And why? Tell us about it.

[Ryan Grimm]

Israel. Oh, oh, Israel.

[Krystal Ball]

And what's the justification?

[Ryan Grimm]

Trump doesn't like the way that UCLA handled protests.

[Krystal Ball]

But if you remember, I was gonna say, if I recall, the cops let a bunch of pro Israel guys, thugs beat up students. Right. That's.

[Ryan Grimm]

And even that is not good enough. So you had Joe Lonsdale, private equity guy.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I know.

[Ryan Grimm]

Joe tweeted. So Paul Graham posted this. Joe Lonsdale shared it, and it's like, look, Terrence, obviously a genius, we all respect his work, but he should work somewhere else, because UCLA is actually terribly anti Semitic and handled the protests like they let the thugs beat the students, and then he disciplined a bunch of students for protesting a genocide. That's not good enough for you, that you have to, like, destroy Terrence Dow? And who wins out of this?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, okay. And the irony is that UCLA and the University of California system has already taken extraordinary steps to comply with the Trump administration. Currently. Just so everybody understands, UC system, the University of California system has put a ban on BDS and has said that any student organization that participates, which is like all of them, which is. Yeah.

[Ryan Grimm]

A lot.

[Krystal Ball]

Not a shocker. The UC system will not be eligible for funds from the university. So already the university system. So it's like, well, what else do you want? And, you know, reading through all of this, the justification of the. Look, it has nothing to do with America. And that's why it's just infuriating to me. You want to pull the guy's visa or whatever, if he's here illegally. Okay.

[Ryan Grimm]

He's American, though.

[Krystal Ball]

No, I'm not saying.

[Ryan Grimm]

I know what you're saying, but I'm.

[Krystal Ball]

Saying previous there were examples of that. Right. You want to pull a guy's visa because he committed a crime because he's a foreigner who, you know, violated the visa law or whatever, I'm fine with that. Or at least it's justifiable. If you want to pull the person for being discriminatory against fellow U.S. citizens or engaging in racial discrimination or something, I would be fine with that. But here it's about what they claim is anti Semitism, but as you just laid out, is about boycotting a foreign state. And by the way, this guy didn't even. From what I can understand, he's not even political. Right. Or, I mean, probably political to the extent all academics are, which is, like, very vaguely liberal.

[Ryan Grimm]

Probably voted for Gavin.

[Krystal Ball]

News. Yeah. Voted for Gavin.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Loves Gavin, loves Kama. You know, and funding gets pulled at the ucla. So I just want people to understand the justification for this sledgehammer from the government and the deploying of funds across all sectors of our economy and of our states that are based on boycott of Israel. And this is a right left problem. This is now a Trump problem, and it's just completely absurd. And finally, Ryan, you have an update here, a 8 about Elon and Twitter removing a blue check from Francesca Albanese, who has been on the show, by the way.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah, so this is like, this is wild. There are entire organizations that have been set up. I think unwatch.org, which is referenced in this tweet here, is one of them specifically, it seems, for the sole purpose of trolling Francesca Albanese, who is an unpaid UN Special rapporteur for, like, Israel, Palestine. She was sanctioned recently by the US Government, which people need to absorb what that means. Like, it makes it very difficult for her to bank, to travel, to kind of exist as a human in the world. Sanctioned for report. What does she do? She has. She has no power whatsoever. She can convene events and made a report and put out reports which you can read or you can not read.

[Krystal Ball]

I read it. She was here on a show. You can go watch that interview, by the way, if you're interested.

[Ryan Grimm]

Oh, you might get sanctioned.

[Krystal Ball]

Careful.

[Ryan Grimm]

So these pro Israel pressure groups reached out with lawyers to Twitter to get her blue check. Are you joking? And Elon, immediately. Okay, fine. Blue check gone.

[Krystal Ball]

Wow.

[Ryan Grimm]

Taking the blue check.

[Krystal Ball]

Interesting. The justification is that sanctions now.

[Ryan Grimm]

So the Ayatollah has can't take her money. If she can't take her $8, how.

[Krystal Ball]

Do you even know she's paying for it? Because nowadays you don't even have to pay to get your quote blue check. All you have to do is have.

[Ryan Grimm]

A question of followers.

[Krystal Ball]

How did that work out, by the way? I remember a lot of people in my mentions talking about how genius the blue check system is. Really worked out well, didn't it?

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah, that was great.

[Krystal Ball]

So that's where we're at, guys. And like I said, I mean, if you want to have some hope, I guess you can. There was outcry about the explicit anti Semitism boycott language in the document. They took it out. So, okay, I mean, somewhat of a win. But the truth is, is that the policy remains in effect. If they want it to, they can enforce it at any time. They say BDS is rooted in anti Semitism. 39 states in this country, red and blue. You can't accomplish that if it's not Truly bipartisan, have anti BDS laws and or executive orders on their books, which is probably the vast majority of the US population now living under those laws. It's ridiculous and just shows you the extent to which our government is basically at this service, state, local, federal, now, all at the service of the interests of a foreign nation. Just think everybody should keep that in mind.

[Ryan Grimm]

And the other downside of this weird relationship with this small country is that you just had to spend the first block of this program talking about it rather than things that actually should matter.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I mean the reason. And so that's a reasonable question. Why was this such an important.

[Ryan Grimm]

Like we don't control. We don't. If we don't control our own politics.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grimm]

Then what's the point?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, and I think that's why, you know, reasonable question. Why lead with it? Well, number one, you know, obviously topic I think near and dear to a lot of people in our demographics like audience is hard. But two is like you just said, how can we talk about anything if the framework is such, where people have to be weary of their language and of their actions as private citizens, as businesses, as state residents and others if we're literally not allowed to freely say whatever we want? Especially it stings coming from a near decade long freakout over anti racism, which I was there with you, okay. I fought in the trenches anti racism and dei and you know, I was there long before a lot of these other folks were talking about Nikole, Hannah Jones and the 1619 Project. And I was with the Trotskyites over at, what was it, World Socialist Web, who were writing some of the original takedowns. I loved them. Guys, by the way, shout out, you know, to some of the originals who were speaking out against this. So for me it stings because I literally was there and saw many of the people who were enacting this policy speak out against or speak out for free speech, for censorship and cancel culture for this type of behavior. Similarly, remember, I remember I met a Texas politician and they were outraged, for example, that their state funds would be subject to BlackRock policies or bank policies because they weren't allowed to invest in oil and gas and, or gun companies. And I was like, yeah, I mean why should they tell you, you know, put your money wherever you want. This is the same, you know, freak out about esg. You remember that, right? I mean, think all of these things almost pale in comparison now at this point to the state explicitly denying you funds and or telling you what and you can't do so I think that everybody should speak.

[Ryan Grimm]

And last point, none of these states actually do boycott Israel. What they do actually do and we've done some reporting on this.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, Thomas, I was fascinated by this. Please explain it.

[Ryan Grimm]

Cities and states buy high risk, low yield Israeli bonds as a statement of political support.

[Krystal Ball]

Got it.

[Ryan Grimm]

They're high risk bonds that ought to be high yield. If you're willing to take on risk, you're supposed to then take on a higher interest rate as a result of that. But because we're so friendly, we're going to over subscribe to these high risk Israeli bonds. So all of these cities and state, states could be getting higher interest rate returns for their taxpayers. Instead they're sending the money to support Israel's debt policy.

[Krystal Ball]

Interesting. Wow. That's our dollars as well.

[Ryan Grimm]

So far from boycotting Israel, what cities and states are doing is propping it up.

[Krystal Ball]

That's crazy. The expense of absolutely crazy.

[Ryan Grimm]

The returns that states could be getting.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep.

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[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

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[Ryan Grimm]

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[Host 1]

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[Host 1]

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[Krystal Ball]

Ryan, let's get to Israel.

[Ryan Grimm]

Let's move to the actual, the actual war. So Netanyahu, and we'll get to this in a moment, has announced that he is going to transform the assault on Gaza into a long term occupation. Whether or not he actually does that, or this is just a negotiating ploy remains unclear. Donald Trump has supposedly greenlit this strategy. He was asked yesterday, does he believe that what Netanyahu is doing is a genocide? Here was his response.

[Krystal Ball]

They see evidence of a genocide in Gaza.

[Donald Trump]

I don't think. Sad. Look, they're in a war. Some horrible things happened on October 7th, as you know. It was a horrible, horrible thing. One of the worst I've ever seen. I've seen a lot of bad things since I'm president in terms of wars and potential wars. I mean, if you look at the one that we just stopped, they had thousands of people being dead already at the border between Thailand and Cambodia. Thousands of people. And I've seen some bad things. But that October 7th with Hamas was really, really bad.

[Krystal Ball]

Thailand and Cambodia, definitely the hot spot.

[Ryan Grimm]

I don't remember thousands of people. I think it was one Thai soldier anyway, so, so Amit Seagal, who is important to follow because he Is he channels Netanyahu.

[Krystal Ball]

He's a Netanyahu English mouthpiece.

[Ryan Grimm]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

And is very open about his not only support, but conveying the internal views of the government. Right. So that's why we're putting this up there.

[Ryan Grimm]

So whether what Amit Siegel is saying is true or not isn't the point. We know it is coming direct from Netanyahu.

[Krystal Ball]

Correct.

[Ryan Grimm]

So we can put up B2 here. He had a major report yesterday that Netanyahu has made the decision that there's going to be a massive expanded invasion of Gaza, including a long term occupation, and that they're willing to operate in areas where they suspect that hostages are being kept, which has been a line that they have publicly at least attempted not to cross because for obvious reasons, it puts them at immediate risk of being killed either by Israel, by the IDF or by their captors who Hamas has long said have been told.

[Krystal Ball]

If.

[Ryan Grimm]

You'Re guarding hostages and they're trying to take them by force, that's it, you all go down.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, let's go even further. He says we are going to occupy the strip. The decision has been made. Hamas won't release more hostages without total surrender. We won't surrender. If we don't act now, the hostages will starve to death and Gaza will remain under. The hostages will starve to death. Not everybody else will starve to death and Gaza will remain under Hamas control. Amid says Israel was at a crossroads. It's achieving neither victory nor hostage release. The figure says that the mandate of negotiations is broad, but no deal was reached. So they're going to move to occupy Gaza now. Quote, occupying Gaza entails what exactly, Ryan. I mean, it could entail all sorts of things. First, it could entail literally, like house to house combat. I'm gonna rule that out because they haven't done it in the last two years. And that would be what you would actually wanna do if you wanted to. Right.

[Ryan Grimm]

So they just destroyed the houses.

[Krystal Ball]

So they just destroy the houses, starve the population, immiserate the entire population, try to drive them out, you know, quote, voluntary migration, I guess, in the ways that they put it. But second is occupying Gaza entails the, quote, indefinite presence that they originally had wanted. And so this is not an occupation, it's an annexation and instant annexation, which will be. Look, I mean, I know we're already in an extraordinary part and yes, they already control the borders and all that, but it is important to distinguish what this, quote, full spell occupation would look like because it would mean the political administration of the state and it would be entirely not just US funded, but it would allow them to facilitate their so called voluntary migration. The forced expulsion of the, the whoever is left living inside of the Gaza Strip further basically enacting their policy of starvation or denial of aid or all of these other things on top of a US led administration. I don't wanna drop that either because that's the American point of all of this, is that you think Israel has the money or the manpower to actually occupy. Forget about it. Okay.

[Ryan Grimm]

Look at that. They can't keep up what they're doing.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, exactly. Their current pace of operations, They've already had 1,000 soldiers killed, a bunch of them. They're already having major reservist problems. Money, I mean it costs an extraordinary amount of money to continue their military. They're going to need untold numbers of bailouts from the US to continue this occupation. And considering the way that they've acted, I think we all know what that occupation would look like. It'll literally look like Iraq look cakewalk. And of course the political risk and all that then falls on who America. Right. And I think that's a very important part of the story and broadly what this will all look like for this occupation. This is not about hostages, this is about full scale annexation recontrol of the land, maybe even more so than the West Bank.

[Ryan Grimm]

Now at this point, and tactically because of the tunnel system, it's not at all obvious how they could even accomplish this. In Beit Hanun for instance, IDF has gone in I believe five times and declared each time that they had operational control. Yes, they went back in recently to this place that they said they had operational control and immediately got hit with an ambush. Hamas and the other resistance factions, because it's not just Hamas, rely for their primary supply of weapons, unexploded Israeli bombs. Israel has dropped multiple Hiroshimas worth of explosives on Gaza because they are dropping them in what they call non ideal circumstances. In other words, you're not supposed to just drop them on random urban environments. And when you do, they don't explode at the normal rate. And they already started with a bunch of their older stuff. So you're looking at a 10 to 20% dud rate. Even if it's a 2% dud rate, that means that there is nearly an unlimited supply, supply of explosive material for Hamas and other resistance groups to extract. That's literally where they get their weapons. Then they turn them into small bombs and they on foot walk them up to tanks and then blow up the tanks.

[Krystal Ball]

So it's like basically ied, North Vietnam, North Vietnam story, very common.

[Ryan Grimm]

And so as long as there are human beings alive willing to do that, that they're going to continue to do that. So you have to depopulate entirely the Gaza Strip, basically. Like, if you're going to, if you're going to hostilely occupy it, how do you do that without American troops?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, well, and even with, honestly with American troops, US Troops, by the way, even with US Troops, it would be a disaster and we should have, have absolutely nothing to do with that. But, and I don't think that will happen. But Gaza lago, which is basically what Trump determined is the policy, the US Is going to own it. If it is a US Led administration, then we own all. I mean, we already are funding and are diplomatically running cover, but it's a whole other thing to actually have actual administration. And that's what Israel wants. They want our ownership of Gaza so that they can push off the diplomatic cover and everything and then make all of the US Own it. And effectively that's what Trump declared originally in the Oval Office in his meeting with Netanyahu about taking over Gaza. But this basically pairs with the literal expulsion of all the citizens, taking them over. And there's just no world where this is going to work out better for the people and for the Palestinians, right. Where they're going to be under genuine, direct Israeli occupation. In the same way, let's just look at the peaceful west bank, which we covered yesterday, where people are being murdered in cold blood by a lot of these settlers. I mean, how soon do the settlers start coming in behind the idf, which is the dream of the Israeli cabinet.

[Ryan Grimm]

They say it out loud, Mocha Ben GVIR and all those, that's what they want. They want settlers in Gaza. And just to show how kind of corrupt the negotiation process was recently put up B3 here. So the Times of Israel saying that there's a Saudi report that says Hamas is under pressure to show flexibility but unclear if new talks are in the offing. And Jeremy Scahill will have more on this for drop site tomorrow. But Hamas officials have been speaking publicly and we have the paper that was passed back and forth in the negotiations, according to Netanyahu and Witkoff, who walked away, that one of the big stumbling blocks was Hamas was refusing to disarm. According to Hamas and according to all of the documents that are public that were swapped back and forth, forth, that was never discussed as part of the negotiations because it's not going to happen. So you don't discuss things that aren't going to happen. Like Hamas has said, we're not asking Israel to abandon Tel Aviv like we'd like them to. They say out loud they'd like them to, but we're not asking for that in the negotiations. We're trying to. Hamas says that they were on the brink of signing and they were moving toward the implementation phase. And there was nothing in there about disarming. It was about, you know, the pace of the Israeli withdrawal from their current positions, the number of hostages exchanged on, on each side, and the flow of aid into Gaza. Like, that's what, that's what they're talking about. And then all of a sudden Witkoff and the others, like, just blow the whole thing up and are now talking about a massive occupation.

[Krystal Ball]

And the thing they're blowing it up over. Ryan, as I understand it, having read Scahells and others reporting, is, is about this literal occupation in the terms of occupation, because they don't want them to just like demilitarize and lay down their weapons. They're like, you have to effectively surrender. They're like, all of Gaza, we will determine what area is ours for dmc.

[Ryan Grimm]

Humanitarian zone.

[Krystal Ball]

It will have a humanitarian zone. I mean, basically, it looks like it does right now. Right. Which is. But I mean, last time we had talked, you had told me that a lot of the population was even willing to take that. Well, where's the population on this quote question?

[Ryan Grimm]

I think still to this day, anything that gets in aid food and stops the bombs for 60 days or 30 days, just do it. Because they don't trust what's written down anyway. So it's like, if we can get 30 or 60 days. So Hamas was, you can look at what they were willing to move on was being quite flexible just because they knew how much pressure they were under from their own population. And that's why it had to end the way it did, with Hamas thinking that they were about to sign a deal and move to the implementation phase. And Witkoff shocking even the Qatari and Egyptian mediators and announcing that Hamas is being inflexible and the whole thing. And the whole thing is off because it couldn't end with Hamas being inflexible and announcing that they were walking away because they weren't willing to. Hamas was going to come cave on whatever.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grimm]

So that's why you had to have this weird, like, wait a minute, Witkoff is announcing that Hamas is saying no. Like, wouldn't. Wouldn't Hamas, right, be the one that would say no. If it's true that they were saying no.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grimm]

And then Hamas comes out and like, we didn't say no. What are you doing, bro?

[Krystal Ball]

And so this is all under pressure from whom is this? From the Israeli government? On the American government? You know. You know, in terms of the way.

[Ryan Grimm]

That's the question.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, the way that it all US.

[Ryan Grimm]

And Israel just are a lockstep.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. It looks to me as if not only lockstep, but basically making it so that Hamas, they said they won't do it and they wanted occupation this whole time. That's how it appears to me. And I mean, they've said they want occupation the whole time.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah. And meanwhile, we can put up before Netanyahu is trying to reshape the government in multiple ways. People who aren't following this closely might not realize the man spends a significant amount of his time in court, just.

[Krystal Ball]

Like Bill Clinton, fending up corruption charges, starting wars to distract from his own personal problems.

[Ryan Grimm]

And he and his aides are accused of being on the dole of Qatar, which is hilarious on a bunch of different layers. So now he moved to get rid of the Attorney general who's prosecuting him. The Supreme Court has held this up. This is at the heart of his judicial reform that kind of blew up the country's politics. Prior to October 7th, you had all these protesters out in the streets for a year trying to stop him from doing this kind of judicial reform that everybody assumed was related to his own prosecutorial problems. Now he's going after the actual prosecutor. And meanwhile, he got rid of this Edelstein, who is the head of this committee that oversees basically the army, in a massive fight over whether or not the Haredi should be subject to the draft and should participate in the war. And so Netanyahu, on the one hand, getting rid of the Attorney general, on the other hand, doing everything he can to keep his right wing coalition together by excluding a huge portion of the population from having to participate for religious reasons in this war. And so the country is thoroughly united on the kind of genocide. You look at the polls on that, it would be an interesting challenge for a pollster to try to find a question that was so grotesque and over the top that it wouldn't get a majority of Israeli support in surveys. So they're united on that. But everywhere else, the society is torn apart. And that is, those are the conditions on which he thinks he's then going to launch a massive war in Gaza, while at the same time hugely inflaming tensions in the west bank currently, if you haven't been following this, a radical settler murdered a well known west bank activist.

[Krystal Ball]

We covered it.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yeah. Who's featured in no Other Land. He's free. The guy's family is still in jail for no reason and they're keeping the body. So you're going to do all this and also then launch a massive occupation of Gaza?

[Krystal Ball]

See, that's why so many Americans, there's so many ironies going on here. Number one, the Israel firsters in America are always like, you're funded by Qatar if you're critical of Israel. And I'm like, well, the only people where there's some, like, direct evidence we're being funded by Qatar are Netanyahu's closest political advisors who are under indictment. And Bibi is who he was using to fund Hamas. Who he was using to fund Hamas. Right. And so then we lose it even further. Well, Bibi's actually UN or corruption trial. Every single time that something happens, he's like, I'm sorry, we need to pause this because I'm bombing Syria today or I'm occupying Gaza today. And then slowly but surely he's fired. I mean, it's literally like the original scandals back in the day in 2017 about firing Comey. I mean, he fired his FBI director, the Shin Bet director, over this corruption investigation. Now he's firing the attorney general. They had the, quote, judicial reform. I mean, it's cartoonish corruption. And at every single point, escalation in the war in Gaza and or with Iran and or with Syria is linked, lo and behold, to developments with his corruption trial. It happens like clockwork. But people here are so illiterate that they don't even know even the pro Israel groups about what's actually happening in the country that they're supposedly passionate about is that he's of kind. He's obviously using his foreign policy to protect himself for political purposes. First it was October 7th, remember? We'll talk about October 7th after the war in Gaza is finished. Never end the war, never have to talk about it. Wait for people to wait for people to forget. It's like 9 11. By the time of the 911 Commission Report, we're bogged down in Iraq. Everyone's like, ah, whatever. You know, it was three years ago, right? You know, it's the same thing right now.

[Ryan Grimm]

It's all in the past, right?

[Krystal Ball]

It's all in the past. Why are you so harp. Why are you harping on the past? You mean the event that literally got us into the war? Yeah. That's the, that is the difficulty of all of it. And then finally B6 Ryan, tell us what happened.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yes, this is just utterly tragic. Outrageous. Ode Nahal Al Karin, nurse at Al Aqsa Hospital, just days ago posted a video talking about how humiliating these aid drops are. That what are you doing? Like why are you dropping aid out of airplanes when you have all of these land crossings just right there? If you want to bring in aid, put it on a truck, put the truck in first gear, hit the gas and bring it in. It is not complicated at all. And bring in enough trucks so that starving people aren't looting them the second they get in. Quite simple. This nurse Ode killed by a falling aid drop yesterday.

[Krystal Ball]

Wow. And many of these air drops have killed a lot of people. So we covered it and the US dropped aid. The same thing happened.

[Ryan Grimm]

And meanwhile the head of nursing at Nasser Hospital was killed by a targeted strike yesterday in his tent with his family. So they killed this nurse accidentally with airdropped aid. And they still continue to target top medical professionals. Not collateral damage as part of some targeted operation at some militant or something, but identifying top medical staff and killing them in their tents with their families. What are we doing?

[Host 2]

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[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

It's the biggest party of the summer. WWE SummerSlam is here and wrestling with Freddie is all over it. We're talking wild matches, big surprises and our boldest predictions yet. From celebrity showdowns to the chaos inside a steel cage, we're breaking down every match and calling who we think think walks out on top. This card is loaded from Cody Rhodes, John Cena, Rhea, Ripley, and Tiffy, just to name a few. This lineup is ready to tear down the house. We'll give you our unfiltered takes, honest debates, and you already know, a ton of laughs along the way. We're covering the upsets, the wild returns, and the championship moments. Nobody expects we'll get into the matches that steal the show, the storylines that explode, and those, oh my God, did that just happen? Movie moments that make SummerSlam legendary. Don't miss it. Listen to Wrestling with Freddie as part of the My Coultura podcast network. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Pearlman and this is Rick Jervis.

[Ryan Grimm]

We were interns at the Nashville Tennessean. But the most unforgettable part, our roommate, Reggie Payne from Oakland, sports editor and.

[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

Aspiring rapper and his stage name, Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie.

[Ryan Grimm]

We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone. In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode. His mom called 911. Police cuffed him face down. He slipped into a coma and died.

[Arnab Goswami]

I'm like thanking you, but then I.

[Krystal Ball]

See my son's not moving.

[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

No headlines, no outrage, just silence.

[Ryan Grimm]

So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own.

[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

Listen to finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Krystal Ball]

Moving now to the conflict with India. Donald Trump has gone off on the Indian government raising tariffs on them to 25%. However, we're dramatically now escalating said tariffs. Why? Again, not of any of the business or non tariff barriers in the country, but because of their policy on the war in Ukraine and buying Russian oil. Here he is just this morning from an interview with cnbc. Let's take a listen with India.

[Donald Trump]

What people don't like to say about India, they're the highest tariff nation, they have the highest tariff of anybody. We do very, very little business with India because their tariffs are so high. So India has not been a good trading partner because. Because they do a lot of business with us, but we don't do business with them. So we settled on 25%. But I think I'm going to raise that very substantially over the next 24 hours because they're buying Russian oil, they're fueling the war machine and if they're going to do that, then I'm not going to Be happy.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm not too happy. So, dramatically increasing tariffs on India for the war in Ukraine. Got it. This is genuinely a. A Lindsey Graham fever dream of the neocons. And we've covered it here for years now, since 2022. Is. Everyone's furious with India and with China for, by the way. Yeah, interesting. China is not listed in that. Isn't it? Even though they're on a pause right now, the two largest buyers of Russian oil, Russia, of course, able to sell oil out on the. On the market. In fact, the Indians and the Chinese are getting a discount on the oil because the rest of the world isn't. Is not buying it, and they're using those profits to fund the war machine. Now. Okay, I mean, you can be upset about that, but everyone should ask, should US Trade Policy, with its 10th largest trading partner, which is what India is, if you look at overall bilateral trade, be subject to the war in Ukraine? The war in Ukraine. Just so everybody understands here now, we have two separate instances of Trump using tariffs to enforce foreign policy goals which have no impact on any of us. First is Canada. If you'll recall when Trump put out his tweet where he said something along the lines of, wow, Canada just raised or just recognized Palestine. That's gonna impact our trade. What? So our tariffs on maple, tariff rate on maple syrup and lumber. Lumber is going to be impacted by the Canadian government. And oil. Yeah, great example. Is going to be impacted by the Canadian government's position on Palestine. So in this case, because Trump has unsuccessfully been able to wind up the war in Ukraine, something he said that he would do before he was even in office, is now tariffing India at a very, very high rate because they're buying Russian oil. Something, by the way, that his own vice president and others, when the Biden administration was considering doing this, spoke out against that very policy, using the full force of the empire and punishing more important allies for the purpose of protecting Ukraine and trying to, quote, force peace over there also. Guys, let's all be honest here. We've punished the Russian economy into the ground, right? Supposedly from the way that the Western sanctions, they're doing fine, their GDP and all that. It's not also, by the way, not just because of oil, it's because of their own domestic war production and more. I'm not saying this wouldn't hurt, but we're all like, let's think about the consequences, like if you import something from India or if you have some business relationship, whatever. Do you really think that you should have to pay more for that, that or have a shortage of it because of the war in Ukraine. This is a Biden policy.

[Ryan Grimm]

And if you think about it, our sanction policy has created the circumstances that you're talking about that the Russian economy is doing well. Ish. But significantly because of the war. It's this Keynesian situation where war production and production for that effort is driving economic growth.

[Krystal Ball]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Ryan Grimm]

So we've put them in this position where if they unwind the war, which is what they want them to do, then they will suffer a short term economic setback. So our own sanctions policy actually incentivizes them to keep the war going. If our economic policy towards Russia was to balance out their economy economy so that the war machine was not such a central part of it, that would actually then free up the Russian kind of political calculation on which Putin rests to be able to then leave the war without the economic ramifications. Now maybe he still wouldn't because he's just war mad lunatic, but he would have the opportunity to be able to, to do so without the short term political hit of an economic crash. Because just like Netanyahu, like just wants to go from Monday to Tuesday and keep himself alive, keep the war going. If it's easier to do A than B for a politician, that politician is.

[Krystal Ball]

Usually gonna do A. Yeah, and just broadly, I mean somebody said they're like, you only care about this cause you're Indian. Yeah, that's definitely the only reason. It's not that I haven't said anything similar about Vietnam or about the Philippines or any of the other critical allies in Asia which are non Chinese. A classic thing that you would want to do, let's say some Kissingerian style realpolitik would say, okay, our global, whatever you wanna call it, competition, adversary, et cetera, is China. So what do you do? All the countries around China, what would you want? You would want some decent relations, which is why we should maybe not hit Japan with a 50% tariff or Korea or I mean I can go to on the Philippines, India, any of these other powers. And we would say we want all of these people to have great economic relationships there. US manufacturers can still benefit from trade in Southeast Asia and in Asia without having to rely on bolstering the Chinese economy and to make sure that the US maintains whatever its economic giant power there. By the way, this was a Trump administration policy, as you all might recall. Apple announcing that it would move production from China, China to India. These are strategic goals, which I'm very okay with again it does nothing to do with my heritage or whatever I'm saying broadly. They could move it to Vietnam for all I care. I don't care. All right, Just get it out of China. My point is just that this is completely counter to the Europe first mentality that the Biden administration had with this religious obsession with NATO punishing nations like China, India, and subjecting our entire foreign policy to the war in Ukraine, which again has nothing to do with. To do on any impact on any life of an American. And by the way, if sanctions or any of this could solve it, it would have happened a long, long time ago. And in fact, every single day that the war continues, Ukrainian people are suffering. They're raising their age to 60, which we'll get to in a little bit. And now you're isolating an ally again, or. Fine. A trading partner, which I think is very critical in maintaining strategic balance in Southeast Asia. So with that, go ahead.

[Ryan Grimm]

Just the line that you only care about this because you're Indian would actually make a lot more sense if it was you only care about this because you're American.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Ryan Grimm]

I mean, they're a huge trading partner. Do you like generic pharmaceuticals?

[Krystal Ball]

I would say the same thing about Taiwan. I would say the same thing about any of these countries. By the way, Taiwan is even more important trading partner. Guess who also got hit with the tariff, if you want to know. Under, under these. This is the point is that the policy makes no sense. Sense. It's computed stupidly and here explicitly. The original 25% is about non tariff barriers. Fine. It's true, by the way. India is an insane economy. The way that they shut out Western, like Western investment. I don't blame them per se, because if I were them, I'd probably do the same thing.

[Ryan Grimm]

We still exported up 50 billion.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it's a lot. Well, okay. Their theory is we want total control of our economy because we don't trust the west and we don't trust China.

[Ryan Grimm]

Looks pretty good also, aren't they two out on the things we're supposed to care about? Like the things that countries are supposed to do for us is they're supposed to support Bolsonaro and be mad.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, right, I forgot about that.

[Ryan Grimm]

That he was not able to carry his coup out. They're supposed to support Israel. And I think Modi is like check and check. He's fine with both. But three, you also have to hate Russia and love Ukraine.

[Krystal Ball]

Right, okay, got it. So we should definitely. That's the way that we should be conducting it. So we wanted to give you guys a view into how this is being responsible. We've got a clip here from Republic tv. Our Indian viewers may know what it is. It's kind of hard to explain, Fox, I guess. I mean, it's not exactly the same media environment, but this is Arnab Goswami. He's, I guess the Tucker Carlson ish of India. Very popular voice. Very, very popular voice. We'll say that on Indian national television. Here's how they are reacting to it. A nationalist India.

[Arnab Goswami]

Trump escalates the Tardif war with India. Trump says he's going to substantially increase tariffs on India. Trump puts out an aggressive post saying we're going to be further, further slapping more tariffs on India. And he's linking it to India's friendship and our business with the Russians. We have no response to Russia yet, but it's quite clear that we are caught in the middle of this Russia versus US Trade battles, that we become the linchpin of this battle. So it serves Trump both ways. He targets Russia and of course, he squeezes India at a time when we were ahead of the other countries in terms of negotiating a tariff deal with America. He's sending, I think Mr. Witkoff in the next week to negotiate with Russia. So he's opening up a line of conversation with Russia, increasing the threat and pressure on India, opening a line with Russia and then saying, using his advisors to say that India and China are together, raising the pressure, raising part of the, part of the machine that is supporting the Russian economy. Now, these are all last minute gambits by Trump. He's not liking the noises coming from India or rather he's not liking the lack of a response from the Indian government.

[Donald Trump]

Man.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, no offense, Indian tv. I don't know what is going on with the motion tracking there over on those cameras. All right, let me. Call me. All right, we could talk, but the Indian Foreign Ministry has also put out the statement. Let's put it up there on the screen. They say India has been targeted by the United States and the European Union for importing oil from Russia after the commencement of the Ukraine conflict. India began importing Russia because traditional supplies were diverted to Europe after the conflict. Interesting. The United States at that time actively encouraged such imports by India for strengthening global energy market stability. India's imports are to ensure predictable and affordable energy costs to the Indian consumer. They are a necessity compelled by the global market situation. However, it is revealing that the very nations criticizing India are themselves indulging in trade With Russia. Unlike our case, such trade is not even a vital national compulsion. The European Union had bilateral trade of 67 billion in goods with Russia. In addition, it had trade and services estimated euro17 billion in 2023. That is much more than India's total trade with Russia that year. Subsequently, European imports of LNG, in fact reached a record 16.5 million tons, surpassing the last record of 15 million tons in 2022. Europe, Russia trade includes not just energy, but fertilizer, et cetera. Where the United States is concerned, it continues to import Russian uranium hexafluoride for its nuclear industry, palladium for its EV industry, fertilizers as well as chemicals. In this background, the targeting in India is unjustified and unreasonable. And interestingly enough, actually MODI this morning basically is like, yeah, we're just gonna keep buying Russian oil and we'll see you guys on the other side. They're not taking this all that seriously. And increasingly, with the conflict with Russia, you're watching all of these crazy, belligerent actions, which again are straight out of Lindsey Graham. Let's put C4 up there on the screen. So, for example, there was this more recent development from the Russians in response to Trump's deployment of nuclear submarines where former President Medvedev said that NATO countries have abandoned their. Has blamed NATO countries and says that Russia will now, quote, abandon a moratorium on short and medium range nuclear missiles and said Moscow would take further steps in response. This was after Trump went after him for making belligerent statements about the conflict and deployed nuclear submarines, publicly saying that if we need to, of course, we have the ability to strike Russia back. Well, same time, what's happening in Ukraine. Let's go ahead and put C6, please, up on the screen. The Ukrainian army now opening its ranks to the 60 Plus Club to volunteer for military service contract terms, say one year enlistment, medical clearance and no upper age limit. This was after a revelation a couple of years ago now at this point point, that the average age of the Ukrainian military at that time was in the 40s. And they're already losing thousands of people on the front line. They're losing territory. This is despite the fact the Trump administration has accelerated weapons going to the country, including Patriot missile batteries, which we massively depleted for another country called Israel. It's just all so preposterous. And just to cap it all off, Ryan, at the same time, we're supposedly defending democracy in Ukraine. Let's go ahead and put the next one up there. C7, please, up on the screen is that Ukrainians recently took to the streets to protest Zelensky for cracking down on corruption. Watchdogs, quote, for writing corruption has been a central issue for Ukrainians and new curbs on watchdog agencies have alarmed many. So Zelenskyy and his top people, quote, granted the general prosecutor control over Ukraine's main anti corruption bodies, which, quote, many citizens fear will roll back reforms introduced after a pro, interesting, pro democracy revolution more than 10 years ago. The demonstrations were the country's largest since 2022. Invasion were peaceful, but the crowds simmered with rage after a population that survived nearly three and a half years of war, drone attacks, loss of loved ones, etcetera, etcetera. And now, supposedly the grandmaster democracy champion, Zelenskyy himself is cracking down on the very anti corruption institutions which were modestly pointing out the billions of dollars of money laundering and others that have been wasted on this conflict by the West. That's who we're all supporting and that's why we're now tariffing India and putting our relationship with them subject so that Zelensky and his cronies can continue their anti corruption crackdown in their own country. That's what we're all paying for. And we're paying for Ukrainian yarn shops and pensioners while people here are gonna lose Medicare and snap. Makes a lot of sense, obviously.

[Ryan Grimm]

Yes, you would think that sending billions of dollars to Ukraine and canceling the elections would root out the corruption there, but turns out there's still work to be done. But that work will not be done by the end. Anti corruption groups that Zelenskyy is getting rid of, by the way, one amazing quote from Trump on Sundays, he said, you know, if he gave this month long ultimatum to Putin, then he's like, actually it's 10 days because I don't trust that he's gonna do anything. And if you don't do it or else, you know, you make peace or else. And they said, well, what else? I'm gonna sanction them. And then Trump said, well, there will be sanctions, but they seem to be pretty good at avoiding sanctions. Sanctions, yeah, that's real tough talk.

[Krystal Ball]

And so that's basically where we're at. I mean, the Indians have effectively called the bluff and they're like, okay, fine, let's go for it. And their theory is, yeah, we'll sign a trade deal and all of this will go away. And so actually, you know, even the Ukrainians are basically, if that's true, or being used as a pawn in negotiations with India over Trade, it's not like any of it all matters. But you know, inside of India, this is not being met. Well, just from what I can see in terms of looking at public opinion and the way that the Biden administration previously treated them, they thought it would be different, but it turns out that the new boss is actually crazier than the old boss.

[Ryan Grimm]

I'm curious for your take, but I think what Trump doesn't understand here is that when you are starting at 25% tariffs, that's an unserious tariff rate because it would decimate trade between India and the US if it stayed at 25% like it would, it would seize it up. It's well over the rate at which companies are able to just absorb this hit usually and keep moving. So therefore anything above that is meaningless because 25 is already killer. So they're at 25 now and Trump is like, I'm going to make it significantly higher. It's like, well, it's Arya. It's like the difference between 25 and 50.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Mobile talks about this with China to most 16, 150 makes mo do no difference.

[Ryan Grimm]

Like you're, that's it. You're not making money at 25 or at 50. So both of them are prohibitive. So that's why I think India can be like, all right, bro, well, like talk to us when you're not at 25.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, we'll see. I mean, you know, just broadly, it is their foreign policy right now. Our trade policy, our economic policy policy is focused on Israel and on Ukraine and has nothing to do apparently with the rest of us.

[Ryan Grimm]

Or Bolsonaro, he can't even crack the top.

[Krystal Ball]

Sorry. Yeah, and Bolsonaro. Yeah, that's apparently why we should pay more for coffee. By the way, as a coffee fanatic, I don't know if everybody knows this. The coffee prices right now are out of control. Go and take a look at coffee futures largely because of these Brazil tariffs and there was some horrible storm or something like that that killed a bunch of the coffee crops. So, yeah, if you like to drink coffee every day, even low rate coffee, all of that. Well, I have bad news for you. It's probably going to go up by 20, 30% based upon the futures markets that I was looking at recently.

[Ryan Grimm]

People need to sacrifice for Bolsonaro.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. I should pay more for coffee for Bolsonaro. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Ryan and Emily and beyond tomorrow, thank you Ryan, it's great to see you man and have a great counterpoint show tomorrow.

[Ryan Grimm]

All right, see you later.

[Host 2]

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[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

We're breaking down SummerSlam, the biggest party of the summer on Wrestling With Freddie. From our bold picks to storyline breakdowns, we will discuss who walks out with gold, who shocks the night and which matches steal the show we call the winners, the upsets and the chaos to expect. Plus whatever swerves nobody saw coming. Listen to Wrestling with Freddie as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host 1]

This is an iHeart podcast.