← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
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- [00:01]
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- [01:01]
Crystal
Good morning. Welcome to today.
- [01:03]
Today Show Announcer
From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here to help you take it all along. As the forecast calls for football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.
- [01:21]
Crystal
We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.
- [01:25]
Today Show Announcer
Watch the Today's show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.
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Host 1
They offer something truly unique, special rates.
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Crystal
And grants for the entire family, making.
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Education affordable not just for those who.
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Host 1
Serve, but also for their loved ones.
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Crystal
High quality education, AMU is the place for you.
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- [02:06]
Host 1
Hi everyone. Immediately after we finished our recording there actually was some new information. We're going to add this to the very top, so I'm just going to go ahead and share some of the latest from law enforcement. This is from the Law Enforcement press conference. This is at 9:26am Eastern time. Just for dating purposes. I'm going to go ahead and play this about what they know about the individual.
- [02:27]
Law Enforcement Official
We were able to track the movements of the shooter starting at 11:52am the subject arrived on campus shortly away from campus. We attract his movements onto the campus through the stairwells, up to the roof, across the roof to a shooting location. After the shooting, we were able to track his movements as he moved to the other side of the building, jumped off of the building and fled off of the campus and into a neighborhood. Our investigators have worked through those neighborhoods, contacting anybody they can with doorbell cameras, witnesses, and have thoroughly worked through those communities trying to identify any leads. We do have good video footage of this individual. We are not going to release that at this time. We are working through some technologies and some, some ways to identify this individual. If we are unsuccessful, we will reach out to you as the media and we will push that publicly to help us identify them. But we were confident in our abilities right now and we would like to move forward in a manner that keeps everyone safe and moves this process appropriately.
- [03:39]
Host 1
So that's big news. They do have what we discussed in our segment about how it was pretty shocking that they had not released any into any information or video there. We do one more thing that we can play here about the rifle which the weapon they believe that they've discovered. I'm going to go ahead and play that as well this morning.
- [03:59]
Law Enforcement Official
I can tell you that we have recovered what we believe is the weapon to be that was used in yesterday's shooting is a high powered bolt action rifle. That rifle was, was recovered in a wooded area where the shooter had fled. The FBI laboratory will be analyzing this weapon. Investigators have also collected footwear impression, a palm print and forearm imprints for analysis. Now I understand there are a lot of questions about motive. I assure you that all leads, tips and tips are being fully investigated. As of this morning, we have received more than 130 tips. We thank the community for that this morning. I can tell you that we have recovered.
- [04:45]
Host 1
So there you go. They've recovered a high powered rifle. So those are the two kind of addendums that just to add into that, keep that in context. Anything else you want to add, Crystal, before we throw to our original comments?
- [04:56]
Crystal
No, I think that's it. Yeah, just guys, we record a whole thing and then right afterwards there's this press conference. So, you know, just take that additional information in as you're listening to our commentary. Obviously the, some of the specifics have changed about what we know about the potential suspect, but I think all the, the overall commentary on what means for the country, etc continues to stand. So. All right guys, we'll keep you updated best we can. And Ryan, Emily and I will be doing a Friday show tomorrow as well.
- [05:24]
Host 1
Hello everybody. It is, it's Thursday and we had to do a little bit of special programming today because conservative activist Charlie Kirk was shot and Murdered yesterday in Utah. So we're coming in from home. I think people can hear. You know, it's a very difficult story to cover, and we're going to take everybody through it and we're going to talk a little bit about kind of what it means to us and kind of what I think we means to the mission of the show and just generally about the country and all of that. But we do think this is a place where we have to show up. We got to do the news. So, Crystal, why don't we just go ahead and start, you know, with everything that we know. You know, crazily enough, it was literally happened as we were planning the show.
- [06:15]
Crystal
That's right.
- [06:15]
Host 1
For the next day. And we all found out in real time. So it's.
- [06:20]
Crystal
Emily started sending us messages, and none of us could believe it. And before we get into what we know, which frankly, I mean, we waited to put anything out last night because there's always, you know, misdirection and things that are wrong, et cetera, and usually things shake out and you get a clearer picture of what the hell happened. And I can't say that we know that much more this morning than we did yesterday from everybody, at breaking points, from me, Sagar, Ryan and Emily also wanted us to convey our horror at the. At the whole thing, and our deepest consolances to Charlie's family, his wife, his two kids, who were there on the scene when he was shot and murdered in this political assassination that happened in broad daylight. So here's what we know. Let me go ahead and set the scene a little bit. This was, you know, Charlie is known for his college tours. This was the first stop of a college tour. This was in Utah at Utah Valley University. And, you know, it looked like a. Looked like a normal day. He was out. He was throwing hats into the crowd. And then suddenly, gunfire erupts and you can see everybody scattering and screams and chaos. You guys have probably seen the actual video of his murder, which was captured on camera. And if you haven't seen it, I recommend you don't watch it, because the image will haunt you for the rest of your life.
- [07:49]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [07:49]
Crystal
Absolute horror. Single shot to the neck, and he instantly collapses. The students, of course, flee as we showed you there. And what we have come to find out from video and, you know, from. From what we've learned at the scene is that the shooter was apparently on a near roof. Let me go ahead and share this piece so you can see a little bit of, you know, what this looked like. So can See, this image here appears to be the shooter and Sagar, you know, as we're putting the pieces of this together. And Charlie was. Was taken to the hospital and then, you know, later, later died while he was there receiving medical care. And anyone who saw that wound, I think was pretty convinced pretty quickly that he wasn't going to be able to make it. But the shooter was quite a distance away. Immediately, the police arrested an older man who was in the crowd. There were some eyewitnesses who said that he had claimed responsibility. This old man that was in the crowd, even though he was unarmed, there's video also of him being dragged off where he's saying, shoot me, shoot me. Acting very strange. Meanwhile, the actual gunman was on this roof. Estimates are some 200 yards away. I'm not an expert on guns, but, you know, we've all sort of spoken to people in our lives that we know who say this, you know, this would be a difficult shot. And it was a single shot and obviously, you know, shot to kill and so far has successfully evaded capture.
- [09:24]
Host 1
Yeah, the circumstances, beyond the sheer horror of the actual murder, the circumstances of this assassination are really, honestly shocking. So I'm going to go ahead and put this map up here on the screen just so that people can see. So this was, if you're watching exactly where Charlie was shot, kind of in a lawn, you know, almost auditorium style place at the Utah Valley University campus. And a video showed a person on the roof before the shooting about 430ft away. So if you're looking at this diagram, you can actually see the rooftop where some of the video actually captured, you know, this individual or suspected individual. Part of the crazy thing is, you know, we really don't still know a lot right now. You had that initial suspect, not even suspect. You had a person who was taken into custody who faced questioning and definitely was acting very strangely. That was followed by the FBI director, Cash Patel, who said that there was a subject in custody that was a second subject actually in custody. I can go ahead and put that up there on the screen as well because it just shows the chaotic nature so far of a lot of the communication from law enforcement. They say that the subject in custody has been released after an interrogation by law enforcement. Our investigation continues and we will continue to release information in the interest of transparency. But that is the last communication that we have gotten from the FBI director so far. And the manhunt remains underway and incredibly.
- [10:56]
Crystal
Irresponsible, frankly, to put out such a, you know, his initial statement. People really Felt like, oh, they got the guy right. There was a press conference with, you know, law enforcement and other electeds that they were contradicting each other at that point, whether they had a suspect in custody or not, whether there was an ongoing manhunt or not. In addition to the old man that was seemingly acting very bizarre at this, at the scene, but has now been released, there was another. Another guy that they arrested. I think that actually is the subject that Cash was. Cash Patel was referring to here also turned out to be uninvolved. He'd been like a Heritage foundation staffers. They're just, you know, part of the sort of conservative firmament. I don't know why they picked him up at all. But extremely bizarre. You know, at this point, basically the only thing that we have heard definitively about the appearance of this, you know, of this individual, the assassin, is that they were dressed all in black. There was some audio released from a police scanner that, you know, said, we're looking for a subject who's dressed all in black. That's basically it. We don't have any. Any photos of any suspects. We haven't heard anything about any. Any tips or intelligence. Now, maybe there are things going on behind the scenes, but the fact they had two separate individuals in custody that they questioned and released and have not put out any information to the public to try to apprehend anyone. I mean, it's. It's deeply concerning. And all the experts who've looked at this say this looked like an extremely professional job. You know, the shot itself would be. Would be difficult and, you know, single shot, single kill shot, then he's able to seemingly flawlessly escape and escape justice, at least up to. Up to this point in the day. You know, Sagar, can you. Do you mind putting that map back up on the screen if you have it? Because if you look at that building, there is a parking lot, too that is right behind the building that, you know, that the shooter was alleged, you know, that we think that the shooter was on when he murdered Charlie Kirk. And so the. The thought is that he was able to, you know, escape from this building while the crowd is fleeing, while they're bother, you know, busy arresting this old man who has apparently nothing to do with it. He's able to probably go to this parking lot and escape and vanish so far into thin air. So from the difficulty of the shot, the execution of that, to the ability to get away from the scene and, you know, and take advantage of these, you know, diversions, makes it seem like it was intentional. I guess that's not completely out of the question. But take advantage of this chaos to be able to exit. This was someone who knew what they were doing. This was not some random radicalized incel on the Internet or whatever. This was someone, you know, someone who had a lot of experience in marksmanship and who had a plan and was able to execute it.
- [14:00]
Host 1
Yeah, what I heard from a few gun experts is they were like, look, it's not that 200 yards is a difficult shot. It's they're like, you know, somebody could do it. They would have to know some familiar. Generally laying in the prone makes it a lot easier in terms of the sniping direction. But I think actually you have to combine it with the totality of what we've seen in the execution so far. Wearing black also, you know, laying in the prone, finding a position, planning the attack, having a way of egress, evading capture. Some 13. Now, keep in mind everybody, we're recording this around 8:30am Eastern Standard Time, Eastern time. So people should just remember that, you know, information can break very quickly. But this is largely not just our, you know, assessment. It's also the assessment of some law enforcement experts. You know, they, CNN actually had a guest on who made this very point. So I'm going to go ahead and play a little bit from what they were saying.
- [14:58]
Expert/Analyst
In a case like this, you're looking for someone who has detachment and a lack of empathy, who likes to be in control. That the offender characteristics of the assassin sniper are something that's been studied very closely, especially by the Secret Service. And it's someone who's methodical and patient, self reliant. In other words, Caitlin, this is the kind of person who would have planned to get in silently, try to be invisible, take this shot, accomplish the mission, take the gun with them and leave little evidence behind. Which is why I think they're having a very difficult time getting started on this. This is someone who was a planner.
- [15:46]
Crystal
And John, also what stood out to me from what we heard from officials earlier was they said it was a single shot that was fired. It wasn't multiple shots in Charlie Kirk's direction. They said it was about 200 yards away from where he was sitting under that tent. What does that tell you about the person's familiarity with firearms?
- [16:04]
Expert/Analyst
That tells you that the person is not new to shooting, that they understood exactly what type of long rifle to bring, what kind of optics in terms of scopes and sights to have on that, what the windage was that might affect a shot from that distance. This is someone who knew exactly what they were doing and is probably known to others. And this may be working to the advantage of law enforcement. As someone who has a long history in shooting, this wasn't an amateur.
- [16:36]
Host 1
So I think that that's very important to keep in mind here. That's what they're saying now so far, you know, in terms of the initial assessment and I think, you know, again, combining the totality of the shot, of the execution, of getting out, if we think a little bit more recently, one of the more high profile assassinations that we saw with Luigi Mangion, there's a couple of differences because Maggione, you know, came up very close to the UnitedHealthcare CEO and of course, you know, he was able to escape, but he also was, you know, he made a couple of mistakes there. With security camera footage, they were releasing images. Law enforcement again to this point has not released any image at all of the suspect. In fact, the press conference that they gave said that the CCTV footage was grainy and it just simply showed a person in black. Presumably also the FBI is going to be doing like a cell phone location ping, which they're able to do and they've done in high profile investigations as well, to try and narrow all of the individuals who were there. I was looking at some maps of the area. There was a freeway very close by and obviously was a very chaotic situation. You know, to be able to go away and get in. There are some 3,000 people who actually attended the event. But broadly, you know, at this point, the fact that you've evaded capture for some 12, more than 12 hours now since this attack does show, and also the release of two suspects says this is a difficult investigation right now for the FBI. And it does tell us also, you know, with the information, the conflicting information and all the stuff that came out, it is, it's pretty shocking and it does, I think also what we can focus on is this, you know, if we, if we look at some of the, you were talking about the crazed lunatic attacks, very often those lead in suicide. They are martyrs who immediately are identified, confronted by law enforcement enforcement. In this particular case, I think the fact that the shooter fled, had a plan in the very beginning, that there's been no claim, manifesto, etc, actually is a message in and of itself that this person at the very least, you know, wanted to evade capture. Now again, keep in mind, that could be still a single individual. The DC sniper case, if we originally think back to that, there was a Lot of speculation to the planned nature of it. It was, you know, it's crazy actually we're talking in on the day of 9 11, 24th anniversary since the 911 attacks that happened in the wake of that and there was a lot of worry about terrorism etc. Obviously turned out to be, you know, crazy guy and his son. But he did have military training and they, they certainly did, you know, plan a lot of this round. Luigi. Again, similar situations to somebody who conducted an assassination, high profile assassination, was able to flee of their own accord, got away for a couple of days. So it is certainly within the realm of possibility. But the, the, the political assassin nature of this is so extraordinary and it really doesn't have a lot of parallels in modern American history which we can return to. But you know, there's also some pretty kind of crazy information now that's coming out. I want to keep in mind it's speculation but there was John Solomon over at who works for, I think Real America's Voice was recently reporting here on Fox News that there was actually some foreign intelligence lead involved in Charlie Kirk's assassination. Keep in mind, look, Solomon, you know, he has his own track record. You can go and look for yourself. I will say he's the person who broke the Charlie Kirk's death story. He was the first person to report it actually over at Real America's Voice, which was the outlet which hosts the Charlie Kirk program. But here's what he had to say.
- [20:23]
Expert/Analyst
Late last night and that we all love lost. No matter what side of the political.
- [20:28]
Law Enforcement Official
Aisle you're on table we lost something important in America today. But the case goes on, the investigation goes on. There's a lot of piecing of evidence together. We don't have a shooter tonight. We have a couple leads, a couple people that were released that probably aren't the shooter. There's a couple hot leads, there's a little bit of foreign intelligence and I think over the next couple of days we'll learn a lot more and hopefully we will bring to justice.
- [20:50]
Crystal
This is an Iheart podcast.
- [20:55]
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- [21:55]
Crystal
Good morning. Welcome to today.
- [21:57]
Today Show Announcer
From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here to help you take it all on as the forecast calls for football all across the country. Lots of Buster stars, live concerts and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.
- [22:15]
Crystal
We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.
- [22:19]
Today Show Announcer
Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.
- [22:25]
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- [23:11]
Law Enforcement Official
The evil person who did what they did to Charlie today.
- [23:15]
Host 1
Yeah, I hope so. John Solomon's there saying a little bit of foreign intelligence, it look, it's not deniable. He's got a lot of sources in the Trump administration. He's one of the favorite journalists of Donald Trump himself. And we know that Donald Trump has actually spent a lot of time actually on the phone. There is, let's see, I'm crystal, if you just want to talk, there's some new information. I'm just going to review it.
- [23:37]
Crystal
Okay. Yeah, go ahead and take a look at that. So soccer and I also actually, actually both have personal experience with John Solomon. He worked, he was our boss effectively at the Hill when we both started there. I will say he is not always the most reliable character, but as soccer said, he is very well sourced in the Trump administration. He's close to Trump, he's close to Charlie. He, you know, is, is, I'm sure, close with people in the FBI, probably cash Patel himself. So, you know, that's why it's worth paying attention to what he says there. To go back what Sagar was saying about, okay, well, what is the. What is the profile? What do we know of this individual and what they wanted to accomplish? Unlike we can compare to the. The recent school shooting in Minnesota, you know, that person posted long video. There were long journals. They wanted people to know about them and their psychology and what they were doing and why. With all this symbology, they also intended to be killed on the scene, killed themselves on the scene. You know, that is a. A typical trait oftentimes is you'll see, you know, you'll see a manifesto. You'll see someone who either dies by their own hands or intends to be killed by the cops. There's a desire for sort of infamy and notoriety. You also have, you know, the desire to make some specific political point and make it really clear and apparent to the public. In this instance, you know, you have two things that you can say for sure. This person wanted a public execution. They wanted it to be on camera. They wanted all of us to be scrolling through our Twitter and seeing the Gore and the horror, the absolute horror of this. That was the message they wanted to send. They wanted all of us to see it. They wanted everyone, certainly, who's a public figure, they wanted everyone to feel unsafe and know that even if you're, you know, Charlie Kirk and you got the President's ear and you've got a security team around you, that no one is safe. And we also know that they wanted not to be found. Right? They wanted to do this from a distance. They did not want to be captured. They wanted to evade justice. They wanted to get away. As far as we know, at this point, we haven't found or located any sort of specific manifesto. Now, that doesn't mean that this wasn't ideological. I think. I think, think, you know, it's very likely ideology, very likely ideological. Although, you know, you can't rule out there's all sorts of types of people that this could be. But I, And I think that the third thing we can say for certain is this was someone who planned and had some level of experience. You know, again, it looks like it was a professional job. Now, maybe they just got lucky. You know, maybe this was someone who was a hunter and a pretty good shot and. And had an idea of how to get away and was able to pull it off, you know, without some sort of, like, people are speculating, this could be a government, this could be terrorists. This could be foreign intel. I think all those things are on the table without going too far down the, the speculative rabbit hole. But I think those are the pieces we know at this point. This was someone who wanted a, a spectacle of gore and assassination to haunt all of us and someone who wanted to get away and be elusive and evade capture.
- [26:54]
Host 1
That's right. And that's again, that is a message in and of itself. It kind of does rule out some of the more traditional thing. Not traditional, but some of the other high profile incidents that we may have all witnessed. Very, you know, recently we had a, the school shooting in Minneapolis. Often, you know, those lead to murder, suicide. We've seen attempted assassination or even in terrorism. Right. You know, it's very often that, that will be conducted and then claimed. And, you know, you, you want to create the spectacle there and immediately make sure that your ideology is felt. The very fact that that hasn't happened is certainly an indication again of something. And eventually, if the case does get resolved, we'll learn a little bit why my only caution is Luigi Mangioni very likely conducted a political or, you know, some sort of ideological assassination, at least in, in his own mind. And he, he still fled. Right. So same the DC sniper. Very similar. I mean, he was obviously just deeply mentally ill, but I mean, everything is on the table because we don't know anything. Kind of what's so shocking. I'm not going to share the information. It's not credible, not confirmed for me to be able to bring anything.
- [27:58]
Crystal
Yeah, let me just pick up on the Luigi point because just as a reminder, and I'd have to go back and look at the timeline, but it was pretty quickly that we were starting to get information about, oh, he stayed at this hostel.
- [28:08]
Host 1
That's right.
- [28:08]
Crystal
He ate at this location. Oh, here's the surveillance photo of him at the hostel. Here's the surveillance photo of him here. There were very quickly, there were some, there were some pieces, you know, he was able to get out of the city, but there was some information that they were in fact working with. And you know, pretty quickly you, you knew a significant amount about this individual and they were able to chase down leads. Again, maybe they, they have something that's not public public, but typically, you know, in these early days, if they have an image, they usually put it out so that people can be on the lookout. I mean, you remember how the Luigi was apprehended?
- [28:46]
Host 1
Right.
- [28:46]
Crystal
The photo, Somebody. Right. Well, and somebody at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania saw him and said, hey, that looks like the photo that I saw circulating and called the cops, at least that's the official story of how that all went down. So they like to get the public involved if they don't have a suspect in custody so that people all over the place can be looking and calling in tips and trying to assist in this investigation. Right now, as far as we know, there is nothing to go on. So.
- [29:16]
Host 1
Yeah, I just, it's a, it took about 12 to 24 hours for some of that. So we're still, you know, in that, in that time frame obviously. But it. Yeah, I mean, I think again it's just, it's extraordinary and it does tell us at least something that the person wanted to create this high profile spectacle, they wanted to get away. And you know, I've been thinking, kind of racking my brain for comparisons. And in modern American history it's. There really are none. I mean, you know, Charlie and you could kind of call him whatever you want. He was a conservative activist, he was an influencer, he's a YouTuber, you know, and, and that's part of why I think, you know, so many of us who also do very similar jobs and participate some similar events are so shaken and like struck by it. It's because every, everyone has participated at least in some form, you know, in something like this, you know, for more modern comparisons. I mean, I'm not saying that they're one to one, but obviously we had in nine in the 1960s we had the assassinations of people like Malcolm X, MLK Jr. You did have a period of a lot of violence, political violence in the 1970s, the Weather Underground, you know, the Symbanese Liberation army, the kidnapping of Patty Hearst. I mean it was a crazy time. And we have talked a lot about on the show over the years about the comparison to the 1970s and that's actually almost immediately what I came to. But there's some really darker ones as well that actually Ryan was reminding of and I had to go back and really to look because I'd only read about them passing. But probably, you know, maybe the more one to one comparison would be a guy like Elijah Lovejoy, he was actually an abolitionist newspaper editor in 1837 who was actually killed by a pro slavery mob. And it was actually quite common during the Civil War era where pro abolitionist and or anti secessionists and others in the south, journalists, political editors, people who would express press, those types of opinions were, were killed for their political beliefs and for, for putting that out there. But that is how far back I would have to go actually to even find a comparison to keep it in the realm of Luigi Mangione. I've talked about this here on the show also because of Luigi's own predilections for Japanese culture. But in the, in the early 1930s, 20s and 30s, in the rise of the Japanese military state, there was a concept called geikokujo, which means kind of like from the bottom to the top. And it entailed high profile assassination. And assassination was not something just limited to the government, although it was largely conducted. It was to target political leaders, opinion leaders, others for people to create a purpose of kind of moving towards militarism. Again, they're not one to one, but you know, the same social forces are not all that rare. I could also think to the anarchist movements of the early 1900s. Gilded Age oligarchs were targeted columnists and others, again, they weren't assassinated. But that's part of what makes this, I think, so extraordinary. And it's so crazy that we're talking, I don't know, I mean it's difficult to describe because it's not the same as 9 11, obviously, but it does just feel like a Rubicon was crossed yesterday. Yeah, I mean he was murdered and he was assassinated in cold blood in front of thousands of people in 4K.
- [32:45]
Crystal
HD in front of the world. Yeah, live streamed.
- [32:49]
Host 1
Live streamed. And you know, for those of us who were in the news business, we experienced his death at like a very visceral level and we saw the blood literally and the life like leave his body and Yeah, I don't know for, you know, it's, it's really poignant. I think to me that it's 24 years now after 911 and it does feel like a very, a very different country. And I hope I'm not exaggerating or overreacting, but. Yep, you know that. And we were thinking about Butler, but that's, I mean, I hate to say it but like that's part of American political history. We've had multiple presidents who've been assassinated. We've had the chaining caning of Charles Sumner, you know, legislators. It's not like it was insane, right? To think about. It's not like it was insane to think about the death or the targeting of political legislators. But now it feels like people who engage in American public life itself. Very recently from Charlie and also these minista. I mean these. The recent Minnesota attack, that was only a couple of months ago where these were state legislators, they're not household names. President yeah, these are not, not even a congressman, not a senator, nothing. Right, right.
- [34:20]
Crystal
State reps and state senators.
- [34:22]
Host 1
Senator. I don't even know who my state senator is, you know, where I live. And so these are people who are like, you know, no offense, but like, are, are like orbiting the political system now. And, and in fact, I'm. Charlie was more, Charlie was more influential even than those people, I think, you know, to the national politics. But I don't know, that's part of why it just feels like that Rubicon really was crossed.
- [34:46]
Crystal
I agree, I agree. Sagran. To me it's like it's a wake up call of the era that we were already living in, you know, that I think we were in a little bit of denial about, to be honest with you. Because I mean, even January 6th, like, that was an extraordinarily violent and you know, a violent upheaval. Obviously you had the, the two assassination attempts on President Trump. But like you said, you know, in a weird way that, that unfortunately attempted presidential assassinations, there's always going to be someone who wants to kill the president.
- [35:17]
Host 1
Right.
- [35:18]
Crystal
So it didn't feel like a totally different thing than we've seen or experienced or read about or heard about before. Right. Then you get, yeah, these state legislators, you know, you also had the attack on Paul Pelosi, right? Who, somebody maniac who came in who was trying to get to Nancy Pelosi. Obviously, anyone who is in public life at all.
- [35:41]
Host 1
Congressional baseball shooting, remember 2017?
- [35:43]
Crystal
Exactly right. And anyone who's involved in public life at all, it's almost just accepted at this point that you're going to get death threats and that's just like part of the, part of the deal. So, you know, obviously for us on a personal level, like, like Charlie was more famous than us. He had the ear of the prize, more power. You know, he had this whole organization and he was an influencer and a YouTuber and whatever. But yeah, I mean, this is someone who is in our world, Right. And so I think it does change everything in terms of how anyone is thinking about themselves in public life. The type of events they're going to say yes to, the type of availability that they're going to have to the public, public. And you know, what can I say? The country's coming apart, right? We're, we're chock full of guns, you know, nation packed full of guns with mass levels of untreated mental illness. You know, people don't have access to a health care system, rampant inequality and increasing political extremism. Where people, you know, people are radicalized and they feel that the stakes are existential. And in some, you know, in some instances is the stakes do feel existential. Like there, there are genuine, you know, deep political divides that are very real. In the same way that in the build up to the Civil War, like for Southerners, the idea that, like your whole, you know, Southern slave owners, the idea that your whole economic model was going to be taken away, that felt existential to them. So, you know, it's a, it's a tinderbox. Like it's a powder keg. And it is absolutely. It's a terrifying, terrifying. It's a terrifying moment for those reasons. Exactly. And to me, that has to be what this assassin wanted us. Like, that's what he wants the nation to take away from. This is terror, is fear, is the sense that, you know, you, you can't speak out, you can't be in a public place, you can't just have political disagreements. And listen, I'm not going to mince words like I genuinely find, found some of Charlie Kirk's views to be violent, abhorrent, warrant no one. Like that doesn't mean you murder some. I mean, it's, it's horrific because once these things are on the table, that's the thing that's terrifying too is like I was thinking about the, the epidemic of school shootings, which, by the way, we had a school shooting yesterday too. Like this is America now, where three, three students were critically injured at, I believe it was, you know, Denver High School. So you had Columbine. Prior to Columbine, there were not school shootings. And then after Columbine, they're just coming more and more and more and more and more. And that's what's so frightening about this moment, is that once you put this idea out there into the ether, how many other people will be, quote, unquote, inspired by it? How, how does this transform the way we all relate to each other? And then, you know, we'll talk about the President's response in a moment, which was just pouring gasoline on the fire, which is also what makes this so frightening for all of us. And you know, I don't think anyone would be surprised if, if Trump does use this as some further crackdown on his, what he sees as his political enemies.
- [38:56]
Host 1
Well, that's why it's so poignant to think about it on the anniversary of 9 11. And you know, 9 11, it was kind of the best and the worst. You know, the day after 9 11, it was a similar. It was a somber moment. People came together, they put the flag in their window from the newspaper. It's crazy. It's 24 years ago. There's probably a decent number of people watching this who either weren't alive or don't remember it literally at all. But I was just young enough or just old enough to kind of remember what that experience was like. And I mean, it's why I'm here. It's the only reason I even got interested in politics. And yeah, and I think, you know, to that tinderbox feeling, I think that's what's so really scary. And I do think that's what the assassin wanted. And that's why I think, you know, we really got to try to work against it. It's like you said with Charlie. I mean, look, I like Charlie on a personal level. I was telling you guys, I mean, I was really shaken up by it. I was literally just talking to him a couple weeks ago about what it was like to have kids and to have a daughter specifically. He invited me on his show and, you know, honestly, it took courage for him because he actually invited me on specifically to talk about Israel. And, you know, it's. That's part of what's so crazy about it. I knew the guy for. For years. We had our disagreements and that's fine. We have our disagreements here every day, you know, you and me. And we were talking about that, you know, in the context Emily and Ryan, who unfortunately weren't able to join us, but they definitely wanted to, both expressing their horror, how disgusted they are really by the whole attack. And I just really don't want to go down that path again. But I feel like all of the. Not only is that the assassin want, but I also feel like it's to the benefit of a lot of entrenched kind of political interests. It's also to the, you know, it's like the baseline of engagement for politics for a lot of people. And that doesn't erase the existential feeling because you're right, look, politics is existential. Strange. True. I'm not going to lie to you. We don't mince words about that. The election was insanely important. It was. Doesn't, you know, not saying that, that of course it's not like a gateway to justifying political violence. And yeah, it's just like dealing in the aftermath of this feeling of public life in the. In the tinderbox of the country again on the 24th anniversary of 9 11. It all just really kind of comes full Circle for what they wanted, whoever this person was, and the, you know, the murdering of someone. Again, there's something so 2025 about the attack, you know, Mac was not only the fact that we watched it live, basically happen, witnessed. I mean, the moment I saw the video, I said, this guy's dead. It's, it's, it's over. But Max sent us, our producer, a video. You know, there was, I'm not going to call him out by name, but like a tiktoker who was like, yo, TikTok live. Like, you know, creating content out of it almost immediately. Subscribe on Instagram, subscribe to me on my channel. Right. And I was like, I can't believe really that that's kind of where things are now. And yeah, I mean, it's a scary time not just for people who are engaged in public life. And, you know, like I said, I knew Charlie, you know, the crazy. The last time I talked to him, we fought actually about something. I don't think he would mind me saying that. And, you know, to his credit, he really would talk to a lot of people and, and he had a debate scheduled with Hasan Piker nine days from now. Right. And he did change a lot of people's lives and their minds. And I mean, that's part of what made him what he was. And I think at the very least, like, you know, if there's going to be taken anything from that, that's kind of like the legacy that I would like to look at. But unfortunately, I think they. Things are going in a bad direction.
- [43:16]
Crystal
Well, I think he was very, I mean, he was really important in Trump's reelection. I mean, you know, this whole like, Gen Z Men shift, like Charlie is a very important part of that, big part of it. And a lot of the, you know, a lot of the sort of, like, I don't like legacy conservative influencers, I don't want you call it sort of like Trump 1.0. People who got big, like, you know, the Ben Shapiro and Tim Pool and whatever. A lot of them have seen some of their influence and their views fall off as people. People have moved towards, like Fuentes and the Gripers and like some other newer creators. Asthma Gold is another one. Charlie still was, you know, it was like at the peak of his power and combined having this giant network, this, you know, very influential. A lot of Republican influencers too, like their audience or old people like Charlie genuinely had. You could see there were thousands of people who showed up for him for this event, thousands of young people who showed up for him for this event. So he's a very important part of Trump's reelect, obviously was in contact with Trump himself and other people in the administration on a regular basis. And you know, I, this is not to speculate about who or what or whatever, but it is notable too that he was in real time really grappling with some of those divisions in the MAGA coalition, what it means to be America first and probably nowhere. And we covered some of this on the show. Was he more sort of like torn and under pressure than on the issue of Israel? And it makes sense because you have the President who's with Israel 100% of the way and back in the genocide and doing the whole thing. And then you have Charlie's young audience that increasingly has this very different view. And so you could see in real time the way he was struggling to balance those things because, you know, of course he wants to maintain his good relations with the White House. He's trying to keep his base happy and whatever. And so you could see, see playing out before our eyes like this sort of tug of war for him of how to position himself. And that's the context in which he, you know, had you on his show so you could articulate, you know, your views about it. He hosted that focus group of young people that we covered, asking them, you know, what they thought about it and sort of letting them talk and also articulate a view that was divergent for the White House. He's been very, he's been outspoken on the, on the Epstein files as well. Well, so, you know, he was both kind of at the peak of his power and also really touching on some very sensitive and very controversial issues, not even just with the nation at large, but even within the Republican coalition, the political republic.
- [45:53]
Host 1
That is actually what's so striking to me is that a guy like me knew Charlie and actually had good relations. And then I was watching Fox News and a guy like Mark Levin had neutral. I mean, he was, look, he was the consummate politician position. Honestly, he might have been president one day, like even just thinking about it, like in the level of fame, the engagement, his ability to kind of navigate all the political coalitions from a very early age, engage with the political process. He was basically on a first name basis with like every Republican senator, I would say, you know, outside of Trump, JD And Elon, he's one of the most responsible people for the Trump election in 2024. TPUSA events, you know, were critical. Critical especially in the Gen Z Men SW Swing to the right. And, you know, again, we. Because we don't know the motivation of this shooter or, like, what they even want to. Cause it's kind of difficult to even speculate as to where that goes. And I think, you know, broadly, again, with Charlie's murder, with his assassination here, I really just think about, like, the sick nature that. Yeah. You said there was a school shooting. And I don't know, I just want to come back to, like, talking and hashing things out. I know that sounds really trite, but it is. You know, things can be existential and also coexistence, if that makes sense. Yeah.
- [47:17]
Crystal
And I mean, that's what this country has to be. Right?
- [47:20]
Host 1
Exactly. We don't really have another choice. And that's what's scary about it. We don't really have another choice other than more of what you saw yesterday of murder and assassination in cold blood and of kind of, you know, and that, you know, again, you can hate the guy, disagree with the guy, whatever. Again, we. We even had our own disagreement, whatever. Fine. You know, I don't have to throw clear about it. I liked him. I did. And to see not just the murder, but kind of within the context of the broader country and the sly. It's funny, when you read a history book, you see things that are so obvious. But now, if I put my history hat on, eight years is not that long ago. That was 2017. We had the baseball shooting right from that point forward of Steve Scalise still injured from the attack. It's a miracle that he even survived. And many of the other individuals. Then we had an entire summer of insanity. We had BLM, which was then followed by January 6th, and then was followed now by, I mean, you know, interim school shootings, all up in between insane ideological attacks. Synagogues, churches.
- [48:41]
Crystal
I mean, Josh Shapiro, there were the embassy staffers who were shot, the Minnesota legislators.
- [48:49]
Host 1
These Israelis were just caught. Paul Pelosi was attacked. You know, and.
- [48:52]
Crystal
And we're at a point now where I can't hold them all in my head. Head.
- [48:55]
Host 1
Right.
- [48:55]
Crystal
Like, I'd have to make a list.
- [48:57]
Host 1
Right.
- [48:57]
Crystal
That's how many of these, you know, ideological assassination or attempted assassinations we've seen at this point just in the past. Just. Even if you narrow to the past couple of years.
- [49:06]
Host 1
Right. That's just eight years. Right. It's. And I can't even go, you know, off. Off of all of them for. I'm sure I'm already missing a bunch within them and that. And then just in the last six Months to see this kind of explode in this like, like you said the tinderbox kind of nature of everything. But what it does I think really demonstrate is like you said what the intention. And I don't think we spent enough time talking about this after 9 11. That's part of why I wanted to focus on it. After 911 we did not spend enough time and in on talking about what did these people want from murdering 3,000 innocent people people on 9 11. And what they wanted was what we gave them. The invasion of Iraq, the destruction of our civil liberties. You know they said they hate us for our freedom and then we took away our own freedom. It, it everybody turned inward. We millions of people abroad ended up killed. We ignited civil wars. You know if you we'd never had a serious reckoning with like why, why did the World Trade center and it's like to strike at the heart of American capitalism, at this strike at the heart of American power at the Pentagon and they were also going to hit the legislature and the seat of government and the point or the White House and no one's really still sure to this day but for what purpose? And the purpose was basically what we gave. And I want to sit with that in the, in the wake of the death to say like okay like this what the person wanted was the fear not only of people public life but also just the general chilling effect. But look, we still don't know anything about the shooter and that's actually still what's so insane really about it all and almost kind of heightens the, the like shocking nature of it. The fact that there's still not a single detail, it's 9:00am Eastern time that you and I are recording and we don't know anything.
- [51:15]
Crystal
Right. And I mean listen, obviously we've been speculating privately, unlike others who are extremely irresponsible, we're not going to just like assume that we know that including the President of the United States, which I'm about to show you. We're not going to assume we know the ideological motivations even you know, as you can certainly spin out any number of theories. I also wonder if this person is never caught. Like there will be no end to the conspiracies about this. But I think it's probably the right time in the conversation to play the President's response here because it fits very much Sagar with what you're saying about you know we, yeah we responded to 911 in you know, I don't know, you're probably right that it is what the terrorists wanted, but it also just even putting aside their desires. It was disaster disastrous for us, it was disastrous for the world, it was certainly disastrous for Iraq, it was disastrous for Afghanistan. You know, the horror and the turmoil of that continues to this day. And you know the president here threatening basically to, you know, to go to use this to to go to war with his ideological enemies. Something life's messy.
- [52:26]
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- [53:24]
Crystal
Good morning. Welcome to today.
- [53:26]
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- [53:44]
Crystal
We're getting back to all of it, and the best way to start is to get together.
- [53:48]
Today Show Announcer
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- [53:54]
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- [54:39]
Crystal
And in a lot of ways, he was already doing so. You know, this is a long I want to play all of this is four minutes. I want to go ahead and play all the all of it so that we can. That we can fully react to it.
- [54:49]
Phil (President)
To my great fellow Americans, I'm Phil.
- [54:52]
Crystal
Are you guys. Are you hearing it or no?
- [54:54]
Host 1
Yeah, I hear it.
- [54:55]
Crystal
Okay.
- [54:56]
Phil (President)
Filled with grief and anger at the heinous assassination of Charlie Kirk on a college campus in Utah, Charlie inspired millions. And tonight, all who knew him and loved him are united in shock and humor. Charlie was a patriot who devoted his life to the cause of open debate and the country that he loved so much, the United States of America. He fought for liberty, democracy, justice, and the American people. He's a martyr for truth and freedom, and there's never been anyone who was so respected by youth. Charlie was also a man of deep, deep faith, and we take comfort in the knowledge that he is now at peace with God in heaven. Our prayers are with his wife Erica, the two young, beloved children, and his entire family, who he loved more than anything in the world. We ask God to watch over them in this terrible hour of heartache and pain. This is a dark moment for America. Charlie Kirk traveled the nation joyfully, engaging with everyone interested in good faith debate. His mission was to bring young people into the political process, which he did better than anybody ever to share his love of country and to spread the simple words of common sense on campuses nationwide. He championed his ideas with courage, life, logic, humor, and grace. It's long past time for all Americans and the media to confront the fact that violence and murder are the tragic consequence of demonizing those with whom you disagree. Day after day, year after year, in the most hateful and despicable way possible. For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's famous worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today. And it must stop right now. My administration will find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that fund it and support support it, as well as those who go after our judges, law enforcement officials, and everyone else who brings order to our country. From the attack on my life in Butler, Pennsylvania, last year, which killed a husband and father, to the attacks on ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a health care executive in the streets of New York, to the shooting of house majority leaders Steve Scalise and three others, radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives. Tonight, I ask all Americans to commit themselves to the American values for which Charlie Kirk lived and died. The values of Free speech, citizenship, the rule of law, and the patriotic devotion and love of God. Charlie was the best of America. And the monster who attacked him was. Was attacking our whole country. An assassin tried to silence him with a bullet, but he failed. Because together we will ensure that his voice, his message and his legacy will live on for countless generations to come. Today, because of this heinous act, Charlie's voice has become bigger and grander than ever before. And it's not even close. May God bless his memory. Memory. May God watch over his family. And may God bless the United States of America. Thank you.
- [58:56]
Crystal
Your thoughts, Sagar?
- [58:57]
Host 1
Yeah. This is the worst of Trump, right? This is. You take a moment where any of. I mean, look, I know people here, some people don't like J.D. you know what he did afterwards. He put out a remembrance of. About his interactions with Charlie and he expressed his condolences to his wife. And that's just what generally normal people do from the entire political spectrum. And that's what I mean. And to be honest, that encompasses most of the attitude of the rest. Part of why I'm really despondent today is that literally without knowing anything thing and look, it could be. I mean, who's, who's going to put it out of the realm? Of course, it was probably a political assassination for some purpose. We have no idea really. Still, we don't even have any confirmed information or anything. That's what I was looking at earlier. But, you know, I actually thought Hanania, Richard Hanania said this. He says, I don't think individual political assassinations have anything to tell us about our politics. These are stochastic events, sense. It's a country of 350 million people, widely available firearms. Some of our fellow citizens are insane. Like in any country, if you're a public figure, one of the risks that you face is an unstable individual might come after you. But what he focuses on and continues is not only that we don't know the identity or the motivation of the shooter, but also that, you know, focusing in on hot political rhetoric. It's, I hate to sound like a leftist or whatever, but it's pretty obvious that it's. But it's, it's everywhere with, you know, for both sides, I guess, and I guess I know that's cringe, you know, that a lot of right wingers don't want to hear it, but it's obviously true. Like, the rhetoric is dialed all the way up and we could blame everybody. Oh, it's their fault. They started it extra fine. We are where we Are. And I also will speak up for free speech. And this is the other thing. Outside of the context of 9 11, is part of the overwhelming and crushing environment of that time actually prevented people who are sober minded, who are asking questions and yes, in some cases were offensive. That's allowed. Okay, yes, you can cancel them and all of that if you wanted to. But mono, like monoculture enforcement and just immediately kind of reaching for a political agenda is the absolute worst of 9 11. And. Well, that's the, that's why it hits me hard today.
- [61:35]
Crystal
Yeah, well, and, and it's so much worse, frankly, because George W. Bush, at least right then, at the moment.
- [61:43]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [61:43]
Crystal
You know, tried to calm down, you know, later on. Yeah. Obviously, like, this is no defense of George W. Bush, but. No, you're right, this is. And of everybody on the planet to call out hot political right rhetoric. Donald J. Trump, Are you kidding me? Like, do you remember the things that he, I mean, even in this little speech where he's castigating, he's calling, you know, radical left Marxists and all of that, and this is a man who just used the mugging of big balls as an excuse to, you know, send in the national guard to Washington D.C. so what he, his whole thing is to use, use either real or imagined or invented crises in order to crush political opponents, crush dissent, consolidate power. It's what he does. And so I don't think anyone should be, would be surprised by this speech or the very, or the likely, you know, actions he's going to take out of it. But yeah, this was, this was the line from most people on the, what I saw coming from the right, I saw this as war. I saw, you know, we need to exact vengeance again before and even, let's say it is someone on the left. Very possible. Right. Certainly there'd be all kinds of ideological motivations there, whatever to use that, to say that everyone in that political ideology is basically like a terrorist and a murderer is also just disgusting and abhorrent. But especially at a time when we don't even, we have no idea idea who this person was or what their motivation was. So, yeah, I mean, he's, I think it was Zed Jelani on Twitter. He's like, he's a narcissist. This is all he knows how to do is pour more gasoline on the flames. That's. That is what he always, always does. And you know, I think I've always been in the camp, I continue to be in the camp that Trump is a symptom of the the underlying problems that if it wasn't Trump, you'd have someone else likely to come in to fill the role. I don't know that they'd have the same level of like, power and charisma and cult personality that he's been able to accrue. But, you know, he is the, he is the emblem of the, like, collapsing country in, you know, moral collapse and in freefall that I think we all have this sense that we're living in where nobody knows where the, the bottom is.
- [64:07]
Host 1
I'm glad that you said that because I was reflecting on, because I was watching TV yesterday and I saw, saw Bush and Obama pull out their conciliatory statements. And I think it's really easy to say, wow, that's great. You know, that's a responsible statement. And again, I can't, I mean, again, I don't, I can't stress the audience enough how formative 911 was for me. Like, it's everything. Everything is 9 11. And then I started to think, well, how did we get here? You know, how did this all happen, happen? And it was the collapse of institutional trust and the psychotic behavior of the US government post 911 that destroyed trust in the individual state, combined with the failure of the post financial crisis, the. I mean, look, we could blame each other for the culture war and all of that. I won't even get into that right now. But at the very least, you know, then that starts to dial up in the midst of all this angst and foreign war and abroad and, and that leads. And that's why I'm glad it is a symptom because that is downstream of how a lot of people think. Right. And I mean in my.
- [65:19]
Crystal
A healthy society does not elect Donald Trump. I don't think a healthy society, and certainly not twice.
- [65:24]
Host 1
And, and, and they don't. It's not even just that because it's about the erasure of not even norms, but what those norms were used to perpetuate under the realm and the administration, the regime of George W. Bush, Bush, of Obama, of Biden, Trump 1, whatever. Like this is genuinely is a bipartisan problem. It was a cry for help. And it's saying like, something is broken. I'm willing to take a chance, whatever we need to get out of this. And I think that the shooting is also a symptom of that as well. That's why I really do feel as if we're living right back through the 1970s, 70s where we had, I mean, if, just think about it, we had Nixon, we Had riots, we had the killings of, in the, in the late 60s of MLK, of Malcolm X with a bottom fall out of any hope. We were in post Vietnam. We had high inflation, we had political violence. There was a sense in that time that we're never going to get out of this. They're like, this is it. The American empire has peaked. We, we have to step back from where things are now. Luckily, you know, we did get out of it, although we didn't get out of it with the unscathed. I wouldn't say it all went so well either. And that's kind of, kind of how.
- [66:40]
Crystal
I mean, there's still fallout from that era.
- [66:42]
Host 1
Literally. I mean, we were going to. Before this, we were going to cover the Charlotte murder. Right. And I was just. And it's so funny because we were going to talk about mental illness and about violence and about the deinstitutionalization moment movement of the late 70s and 80s, the neoliberal, what the collapse of a high trust society looks like and explosions of violence and mental illness and murder and public trust. And there's huge debates between you and me about how to even solve that. But you know, coming from the problem itself and recognizing that is really important. And I'm putting that all together in that context. So.
- [67:22]
Crystal
Yeah, I mean, just think of like. And it's hard to say when you didn't live through the 70s to know. I can only read, like, we can read about it.
- [67:30]
Host 1
Right.
- [67:30]
Crystal
But I don't really know what it feels like. Right. I don't really know if it feels the same or if this feels not as bad, crazy or if it feels way worse. But my suspicion is that it's like the 70s, but on algorithms.
- [67:44]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [67:44]
Crystal
You know, the 70s, but on AI fueled algorithms, algorithmic driven. Because what you mentioned, this feels so 2025. I mean, in the same way that like the genocide in Gaza is so 2025. Like, what is it even doing to us that we see this gore as just like a normal part of our lives every single day? Like even that. What is that doing to us? And then all of the incentives for, you know, the influencer ecosystem is to put out the most inflammatory hot take that you can. Like if you're, if you're. That, you know that guy who was there at the scene when Charlie Kirk is murdered and he's like live streaming. Hey, follow me on Tick Tock. Like you're. The whole ecosystem is built up to say the most irresponsible, inflammatory, like outrageous thing. That's what's rewarded. And then you have, have these structural and. And I, I sort of feel like those things are also symptoms. It's an accelerant. Right. Of what's already there. Because think of what a powder keg this place is. You've got so like just flooded with guns. You've got a totally broken health care system where millions and millions of people are walk. You know, people are walking around with untreated mental illness who don't even, can't even go to a doctor doctor. Right. Very little like wildly insufficient rehab, wildly insufficient mental health facilities. And then you have this vast inequality where people feel like they're being crushed day after day after day and that their hope for you know, stable life, their hope for their kids, their, their hopes are just being like ground up and crushed. Where there's a sense that it doesn't matter who you vote for. That's not going to change change. And, and you know, then you layer on top of it this very, this really heightened political animus and a President of the United States who's happened happy to pour fuel on that fire because he thinks it serves his interest, you know. And it's just, it's that mix that makes you feel every day like, like what is go like up is down, left is right. This country is going off the rails. And you unlike 911 saga like 911 really like launched a new era. Right. It was a wake up because these things were happening in the background. We didn't really know. We were kind of like blind to it. But it really did sort of launch us into a new era. To me, the murder live of Charlie Kirk that we all witnessed, this public execution, it solidifies in our minds the era we already were in that we already had lots of indications and years of experience with at this point. And I do think that's not to say that it does, it does put new things on the table. Right. The. I think unfortunately I think we're likely to see more attacks on influencers. And by the way, this is also not the first attack on an influencer. There have been other influencers who have people show up at their doors and try to kill them, whatever, ever. But I do think it puts new things on the tip. But it's also like a real reckoning moment with oh, this is where we are like we already were in this era. And this is just confirmation of. Of where we are at this point.
- [71:10]
Host 1
That's right. I mean if you think back to the 1960s, it's like when RFK, the people who Saw our. I'm not comparing them. I just looking for analogies. When RFK was killed, that's after jfk, mlk, Malcolm X, and then our. The people who went through that, that's why they gave up. They were like, this is just where we are now. That killed it. That killed it. It was a huge turning point for the nation. And yeah, I.
- [71:40]
Crystal
And the last thing I'll say on the 911 comparison is what makes this moment even been scarier. And again, just to cover, like, we're not saying that Charlie Kirk, this one individual being killed is equivalent to, you know, 3,000 people being murdered on an island, but we're just trying to think of culturally significant moments. And that led to a mass crackdown on civil liberties, the fallout of which we still live with that mass surveillance. The tech now is so much more advanced. Yeah, so much more advanced. Things they could never have dreamed of in 2001 are already being implied implemented in 2025. Like, so that's the other thing that makes this such a frightening moment. I actually recorded an episode. I don't know if it's going to air now at this point because it feels very outdated. But of her take with Anna Casparian and Jillian Michaels and the. That whole crew, and we're talking about, there was a dude who went on Fox News to pitch his, like, AI, you know, Minority Report, threat detection thing. And that tech is just like, widely available now. It's. There's Palantir. The AI race is on. So things that were just not technically possible, like the type of sweeps and mass targeting. So not just like an individual, but mass targeting of people for their views and their political beliefs. That's all technologically available to us in a way that it wasn't previously. And, and you know, again, we have a administration that has used every excuse they can to try to go after their political enemies and adversaries, whether it's lawyers, whether it's pro Palestine protesters, whether it's immigrants, whether it's colleges, like across the board. And so we can only imagine. I think we can only begin to wrap our head around what the fallout from this is going to be. What the fallout of seeing this kind of gore in our timelines with the fallout in terms of a crackdown is going to. To be with the fallout in terms of how influencers are going to conduct themselves and what this is going to mean for the world going forward.
- [73:41]
Host 1
Yeah, I think that's well said. All right, guys, I. Do you have anything else you want to go over? Crystal.
- [73:48]
Crystal
I think that's a, I don't see anything breaking or new that's, that's worth putting out there. You know, I think as far as we can tell, the search for the gunman continues. And as far as what's been put out there publicly, publicly, there's very, you know, scarce details to go on. But we will say it's early, it's very early still. So we'll be, we'll be on it. And guys, Ryan, Emily and I are gonna be doing Friday show tomorrow, so we'll hear their thoughts. We'll try to cover some other stories tomorrow as well because of course there continue to be important developments happening elsewhere in the world too.
- [74:24]
Host 1
Absolutely. All right, thank you guys for watching. Rest in peace, Charlie and condolences to the folks family. We'll see you guys later.
- [74:34]
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Crystal
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Crystal
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- [76:02]
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- [76:33]
Crystal
This is an I Heart podcast.