9/12/25: Charlie Kirk Assassin NAMED: What We Know

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Date: September 12, 2025
Episode Title: "Charlie Kirk Assassin NAMED: What We Know"

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Krystal Ball, Emily Jashinsky, and Ryan Grim discuss the shocking assassination of conservative influencer Charlie Kirk. The team breaks down the latest law enforcement findings, the suspect's identity and motives, how internet culture and online radicalization might have played a role, and the broader societal and political ramifications of the event. The tone is raw, urgent, and at times somber—reflecting on both the personal tragedy and the disturbing broader trends it exemplifies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Suspect Identification and Investigation

• Law enforcement identified the suspect as Tyler Robinson, a 22-year-old reportedly from a middle-class background.
• Details provided at a press conference included:
  • The suspect using a Mauser bolt-action rifle, wrapped in a towel, found near the scene.
  • Engraved messages on bullet casings, referencing memes, antifa, trolling, and gaming culture.
  • The investigation was aided by rapid public response and family members (notably, his father turned him in after 24+ hours; [25:47]).
• Quote:

  "We are indebted to law enforcement across the state who's worked seamlessly together... I especially want to thank the family members of Tyler Robinson who did the right thing in this case and were able to bring him in..." —[News Reporter, 07:33]

2. Internet Culture, Memes, and Motive Ambiguity

• The bullet casings had bizarre and varied inscriptions:
  • "notices bulges, O W O, what's this?" (furry fandom/internet meme)
  • "hey Fascists catch"
  • Multiple arrows (possibly video game references—Helldivers 2 bomb move, per [53:11])
  • "oh, bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao chow chow" (Italian anti-fascist song)
  • "if you read this, you are gay. lmao." (troll/groiper language)
• Interpretations varied, with hosts noting the mingling of antifa, trolling, and nihilist symbolism, mirroring previous incidents involving internet radicalization ([13:06–16:41]).
• Krystal Ball:

  "This person was clearly very online... just the fact that there's any anti-fascist stuff in there is going to be enough for Trump and co to say this is... radical Marxist, blah, blah... The indications are kind of all over the place." [15:52]

3. Law Enforcement’s Response Critiqued

• The panel harshly criticizes the police and FBI’s handling:
  • Delay in releasing images allowed the suspect to remain at large for more than 24 hours.
  • Multiple sightings on a roof were not adequately followed.
  • Celebratory tone from FBI/officials seen as "CYA" (cover your ass), with politicized "Trumpian" language ([10:19], [23:15], [25:47], [27:39], [66:38]).
• Emily Jashinsky:

  "I have no stomach to celebrate their father walking them into or their father turning them in more than 24 hours after that happened. I don't think that at least as of right now reflects good police work at all." [25:47]

4. Role of Online Radicalization & Internet Nihilism

• The hosts discuss the suspect’s deep immersion in online subcultures—memes, Discord chat logs, gaming references—suggesting "internet nihilism" may be supplanting classical ideological motives ([52:33–54:21]).
• Memorable Exchange:

  Ryan Grim: "What is this? ...This feels like trolling. It feels like taking someone's life... just joking like you're on a Discord server to take someone's life with references to video games, furry memes... sacrilegious to humanity." [61:22]
  Emily Jashinsky: "When you are part of a radical revolutionary group... that's a sense of purpose and belonging in community. This is somebody who has no... trying to find purpose in saying there is no purpose." [62:08]

5. The Martyr Effect & Political Consequences

• Historic parallels are drawn to the pre-Civil War and late-60s periods where "martyrs" (like Kirk now is for the right) play a radicalizing role, driving factions toward violence rather than dialogue ([37:13–44:01]).
• Ryan Grim:

  “Martyrs play a radicalizing role in all movements... people in the movement who call for discussion and debate will say ‘no, Charlie Kirk tried that... He was killed by our evil enemies and the only thing we can do is war.’” [39:17]

6. Security at Public Events & Influence on Influencer Culture

• The assassination is expected to profoundly change security protocols for public/influencer events, with special warnings about outdoor venues ([28:39–29:59]).
• Emily Jashinsky:

  "You shouldn't have to worry about a sniper on a roof... but you cannot be doing outdoor events anymore where you aren't clearing a roof that's 200ft away... it’s such a pathetic commentary on the country." [28:39]

7. The Spread of Grief and Shock via Parasocial Relationships

• Impact of the assassination on fans, zoomers, and online communities, who experience such deaths as personal loss due to parasocial ties ([71:15]).
• Shared shock at how algorithmic social media amplifies both news and trauma.

8. Cultural and Political Nihilism Amplified by Social Media

• The group reflects on how algorithm-driven content and influencer culture are accelerating social decay, disconnection, and radicalization ([69:46–72:53]).
• Emily Jashinsky:

  "Your reality is that your career is tied to the algorithm. And so you are... changed by the medium that is controlling your life. And these mediums are not changing us for the better." [68:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Media and Motives:

  "Or were they going off the supposed trans into bullets? ...apparently no one at the Wall Street Journal that reprinted this thought for two seconds to ask that question." —Krystal Ball [03:18]

• On The Disturbing Engravings:

  "What is that?... It's some furry... provocative Internet meme associated with furry fandom with strong sexual connotations." —Ryan Grim [13:06]

• On Coping with the Modern Internet:

  "The Internet was a mistake. I don't know guys, what to tell you. Xi is onto something in China. Shut it down." —Krystal Ball [53:24]

• On Generational Trauma:

  "It's hard to understand right now what this is going to do to zoomers who have already seen so much... It's a level of exposure to violence that previously only would have existed in, like, war zones." —Emily Jashinsky [54:21]

• On Historical Parallels:

  “I had said, you know, I couldn't think of anything other than the pre Civil War period, which is very ominous because... that's a dark like 15 years heading into what then becomes the Civil War.” —Ryan Grim [37:13]

• On Pulling People Out of Nihilism:

  "If you see someone going down a dark path, do what you can to pull them out of it. That's the best we can all do right now." —Emily Jashinsky [73:53]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Main discussion begins: [02:35]
• Speculation on motives, messages, and media responsibility: [03:18–04:54]
• Law enforcement press conference segment: [05:10–12:38]
• Detailed breakdown of engraved bullet casings and what they signify: [12:56–16:41]
• Law enforcement critique and timeline: [25:47–27:39]
• Event security and campus culture discussion: [28:39–29:59]
• Online radicalization/deep-dive into Discord/Internet nihilism: [52:02–54:21]
• Martyrdom and historical radicalization: [37:13–44:01]
• Parallels to pre-Civil War/1960s: [44:00–48:16]
• Impact on influencer/public life, parasocial grief: [71:15–72:53]
• Closing reflections and warning against nihilism: [73:42–73:55]

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Tone & Language Notes

• Tone: Mix of analytical, deeply concerned, sometimes darkly humorous, and at times despairing.
• Language: Honest, direct, unflinching in discussing violence, media missteps, and societal decay.

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Final Reflections

This episode serves as an urgent, emotionally charged assessment of the assassination, dissecting the kaleidoscopic motives of the perpetrator, failures of institutions, and the broader cultural forces at play. The hosts emphasize the real-world consequences of online radicalization, the dangers of meme culture merging with violence, and the pressure this moment places on both political dialogue and personal security.

Their closing message: recognize the darkness, but intervene where you can—to pull people out of nihilism, prioritize community over algorithmic disconnection, and stay vigilant in an increasingly chaotic landscape.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

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[Cash Patel]

Can find honest perspectives from the left.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Krystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we.

[Cash Patel]

Hope to see you@breaking points.com Let me.

[Krystal Ball]

Ask you guys this and again this. We don't. We don't know the ideological leanings of this person. We don't know if, you know, they could be politically all over the blue. We don't know. But let me ask you guys this question. Do you think I'm right, that even if it is like a clear cut case of like some white nationalist or griper type or whatever that this guy turns out to be, that Trump will just pretend that it's otherwise or use this anyway to his ends?

[Emily Jashinsky]

I'm, I'm curious about him saying yesterday he had some sense of the motive before this Per. Like that tells me that maybe they think or they thought they had reason to believe that there's some, I don't know, I like, what is going on?

[Krystal Ball]

Were they going off the supposed trans into bullets? I mean, we, we, we didn't spend enough time on that because it was so, it's so disgusting to me that the Wall Street Journal ran with that and apparently it turned out there were like some arrows like potentially already printed on the bullets because there are little like markings on there that they were like these arrows. I think that must mean he's pro trans, which was completely invented. And you know, all kinds of lay people. When this news came out of like markings on the bullets indicating transgender ideology, people were like, what would that even be? But apparently no one at the Wall Street Journal that reprinted this thought for two seconds to ask that question.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Or they reported. Well, here's also what's interesting is that they reported. So Steven Crowder got it first. And Journal was probably rushing because of Steven Crowder, which is already just like, what the hell? But they reported that ATF was taking these markings seriously. And the Journal probably failed to contextualize how thin the like, evidence was that that was, you know, something to take seriously. But what it says to me is that somebody at ATF was taking it very, very seriously. And so because. Okay, here's a. We've got a press conference coming in.

[Ryan Grim]

Now. What I mean, real quick to Chris point, like Trump said he. I don't care. Trump is telling you. Trump, Trump already answered your question.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, I don't care. That's probably correct.

[Ryan Grim]

It's like, I don't care who did this.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, the problem, yeah, sure, we got radicals on the right, but they're doing it for the right reasons. I mean, that's what, you know, that's the whole justification for January 6th. We already know he pardoned a bunch of, you know, violent J6 rioters. All right, here's the presser leaving the.

[News Reporter]

Rifle in a bush messages related to a. To visually Watching the area where a rifle was left and a message referring to having left the rifle wrapped in a towel. The message is also referred to engraving bullets and a mention of a scope and the rifle being unique messages from the contact. Tyler also mentioned that he had changed outfits. I know there's been speculation as well as to the. The writing on those casings.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Here we go.

[News Reporter]

Those, those, those bullet casings. And I believe we have that as well, and I'll share that with you now. So the area north of Campus Drive Road where the suspect crossed over, you saw some of that in the video that we released last night. Consists of a grassy area with trees on the edge of the UVU campus. Investigators discovered a bolt action rifle wrapped in a dark colored towel. The rifle was determined to be a Mauser model 98.30 06 caliber.30.6 caliber bolt action rifle. The rifle had a scope mounted on top of it. Investigators noted inscriptions that had been engraved on casings found with the rifle. Inscriptions on a fired casing read, notices, bulges, capital O, W, O. What's this? Question mark Inscriptions on the three unfired notices. Notices, exclamation point, catch, exclamation point. Up arrow, symbol, right arrow and symbol. And three down arrow symbols. A second unfired casing read, oh, bella chow, bella chow, bella chow, chow chow. And a third unfired, Casey read. If you read this, you are gay. Lmao. We are indebted to law enforcement across the state who's worked seamlessly together, local law enforcement, state law enforcement, and our federal partners with the, with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. We're grateful for everyone who worked together in such a short amount of time to find this person and to bring justice. I want to thank the public who has been so engaged reviewing videos, helping us with, sending in tips and helping us get to this point. I want to thank the family members of Tyler Robinson who did the right thing in this case and were able to bring him into law enforcement as well. I especially want to thank the family of Charlie Kirk, Erica, Charlie's parents, his children. I want us to be thinking of them as we bring justice in this case. They will be involved in that justice. We will be working very closely with them as we move through this process as well. This is a very sad day for again for our country, a terrible day for the state of Utah. But I'm grateful that at this moment we have an opportunity to bring closure to this very dark chapter in our nation's history. With that, I'll now turn the. Turn the microphone over to the Director of the FBI.

[Cash Patel]

Patel.

[Krystal Ball]

Those bullet markings are hard to decipher.

[Cash Patel]

Governor, this is what happens when you let good cops be cops. The FBI and our partners are proud to stand here today together to bring justice to the family of Charlie Kirk and honor his memory. I want to express my deep gratitude to President Trump, the Vice President and the entire White House, who have been so incredibly supportive with both resources and just personally to the FBI as a team. They had our backs the entire way. And I just want to express my gratitude for giving us the resources we need to operate in this space to bring this sort of justice at this sort of speed. In 33 hours, we have made historic progress for Charlie. Governor Cox, our partnership has been absolutely incredible these last few days. Our partnership will endure. Your state and local partners, your sheriffs, your DPS community has been unbelievably impressive in the hardest of times. And a case like this cannot be solved, cannot be brought without partnering with your state and local authorities. The FBI has a certain role to play. We will play that role and we will lead after the federal government. Governor Cox, we are so grateful for your state partnership that led out on this investigation. A little bit of the timeline. Charlie was shot at 12:23pm on Wednesday. The first FBI agents arrived on scene in 16 minutes with chiefs of police at 12:39 and secured the scene.

[Krystal Ball]

This is CYA to try to convince people they did a good job.

[Cash Patel]

We utilize these assets to transport personnel, specialty technicians, hostage rescue teams. We also utilize these assets to go back and forth from the east coast and here in Utah to transport forensic evidence and other evidence that will be analyzed and is being analyzed at our FBI laboratories in Quantico and other laboratories, including the atf. At my direction, the FBI released the first set of FBI photos of the suspect at 10:00am local time on 911. Then shortly thereafter, the FBI reward of $100,000 was released. At 10:45am local, myself and Deputy Director Bongino arrived on the scene at approximately 5:30pm on 911. The governor led a press conference last night at approximately 8pm where in my direction, the FBI released the never before seen video of the suspect. We also released new images to the public of the suspect. And just last night, the suspect was taken into custody of 10pm local time in less than 36 hours. 33 to be precise. Thanks to the full weight of the federal government and leading out with the partners here in the state of Utah and Governor Cox, the suspect was half apprehended in historic time.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Period.

[Cash Patel]

And I want to highlight what Governor Cox said. This would not have been possible without you, the media and you the public. That's why we went so public.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So the suspect was on the loose for more than 24 hours.

[Krystal Ball]

Just trying to use the Trumpian framing.

[Cash Patel]

Historic, historic authorities along with federal authorities process that crime scene quickly. And I even had the.

[News Reporter]

Ability to.

[Cash Patel]

Walk through that crime scene and walk through the steps the suspect took to learn more about what was needed and what resources we need to bread to create a full picture for the FBI and leadership back in Washington. Furthermore, thankfully to state local partners, forensic evidence has been seized and continues to be garnered. Forensic evidence has already been evaluated, FBI laboratories in Quantico and state local authorities here. We will continue to process evidence as we see it, as we collect it.

[Krystal Ball]

We can probably get out of this. It doesn't seem like we're going to get any more news. Right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Unless they take questions. But that could still be another 10 minutes.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's. Well, let's go through with a kid.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, if you. If they go to.

[Ryan Grim]

So let's go through the casing.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's go back in.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, let's go.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, let's.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's go.

[Krystal Ball]

So you have them all there, Ryan?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I got them here in order. The first one they said was notices bulges. O W O. What's this?

[Krystal Ball]

What is that?

[Ryan Grim]

Which is some. It's some furry.

[Krystal Ball]

What?

[Ryan Grim]

It's. I mean, people can just go. People can just Google this provocative Internet meme associated with furry fandom with strong sexual connotations.

[Krystal Ball]

Notices bulges. Okay, all right, I'll look it up so you don't have to describe it to me.

[Ryan Grim]

Then. Then, hey, Fascists catch. Which seems pretty clear what that is. And then it says.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, it says the notices bulge thing parodies furries and online role play subcultures is from Know youw Me.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay. All right.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, bella, ciao, Bella ciao. So Bella Ciao is a. Is a. An Italian anti fascist song. So that, that, that is the thing that, that, that plus hey Fascist Catch is him signaling that's where they would have gotten the antifa stuff from.

[Krystal Ball]

This gotcha.

[Ryan Grim]

And then if you read this, you are gay. Lmao. That. That gives groiper troll. So.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Which is sort of, by the way, similar to what we saw in Minneapolis where you had troll language. And this is just so. I mean, it just makes your stomach sink because.

[Ryan Grim]

So you have two languages and then two antifa stuff.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

So is the antifa stuff there to like convince people that this is that he's anti. Like we're gonna find out more about this guy. But you know, it could be that he's actually an actual antifa guy, you know, who grew up in this household with this, you know, his dad in the sheriff's department and kind of rebelled against his, his dad.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's certainly not an uncommon story.

[Ryan Grim]

Happens could also be that this is a groiper troll who's. It's, you know, and that we have a troll assassination.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I mean, troll assassin or something.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it can also be. Did you guys look into this like online cult that people were theorizing the Minnesota shooter was part of? Because they had all kinds of symbology that was all over the map too. And I can't remember the name of these sort of like LinkedIn like Neo Nazi death cults, basically online radicalized death cults where some of the, some of the MO is like gaining notoriety and outdoing each other in your, you know, acts of terror and murder that you commit. And there are, you know, number of instances where the killers appeared to be linked to this like basically online death cult. And that's another, that's another possibility. Like clearly this person was very online. Like we can say that for sure with the, the language, you know, the use of memes, you know, what looked.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Like a gaming keyboard in the picture.

[Krystal Ball]

Keyboard in the picture, Yeah. I mean just. And, and also just that's the life of a 22, 2 year old man often times in, in this day and age. Not to sound like a million, but it's true really. So person was clearly very online and there's certainly enough, you know, like just the fact that there's any anti. Anti fascist stuff in there is going to be enough for Trump and co to say, to say this is, that's a good point. 100 on the left, you know, it's radical Marxist, blah, blah, blah. So that's certainly what they'll be going with. You know, whether that is fully the case or not, I think it still remains to be seen because the indications are kind of all over the place. Like the. If you're reading this, you're gay. Lmao. I don't know. Don't know, guys.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, it's unclear right now which direction this is going in because to me, when I look back on the Minneapolis shooter, I don't think it's, it's unfair for the right to say that whatever was going on ideologically on sex and gender clearly played into that. But also it was troll language. And when and in that case, the shooter died. So it's almost impossible to decipher the troll language from a mentally ill person to know which direction or the other that it was going in. This person is alive. This person is alive. And actually, we pulled out of the presser. I just saw this update from the New York Times. Authorities in this news conference have described extensive evidence that they say ties the suspect in custody the shooting of Charlie Kirk, including statements to relatives suggesting that he committed the crime, social media messages, and physical evidence. So I would say, at least in this case, the odds of us getting a much more complete picture of where this person was coming from, and this is a good thing, by the way, just exploded, because otherwise you get into inkblot test territory where you can kind of latch on to one part of the picture or another part of the picture, and it's more easily used as a football. So if we can get more clarity in this case, I think that is like, a huge blessing, but we'll see.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, the other thing is just, you know, even if. Let's say that he had been killed or killed himself or, you know, the cops had killed him or he'd killed himself or whatever, then the. The conspiracies would also run wild, right? Like the fact that he. They have him, that he is alive, that he can speak for himself. Not that it's going to put all conspiracy theories to bed, but it will put, you know, it will make it more difficult for those to gain, I think, widespread public acceptance and traction. And I think. I think it matters a lot that they have this guy. You know, listen, I've already talked about how I think Trump is, like, the worst person possible to be our president at a moment such as this. Part of why, obviously, I posed him into the election. Part of why I was very deeply concerned about what a second Trump administration would mean and would do for this country and for the world at large. But, you know, I think, like, just the fact of having a suspect who at this point, at least very much looks like this is the guy, at least then, you know, that it helps relieve some of the, like, the mystique and some of the theories and potentially some of the, like, you know, follow on inspiration because, you know, you're going to see him not go out in a blaze of glory, but, you know, be humiliated in a prison jumpsuit and, you know, brought pretty low. So I think you get, like. I think those things matter.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think that's. I hope that that's true. I think that's likely true on the other hand, it does bother or it does worry me that you get into and it's too early even to be speculated too much but you end up with like Charles Manson cult around someone. I don't mean like a literal cult, but like a cult following where people are obsessed and get fixated on someone in prison for you know, a just caus. Or like even Mangione. You see some of this after he said he was innocent. Which means you could like really be misdirecting people in different ways. Hopefully that doesn't happen here. But says like I, I had nothing to do with this. I'm just to, to quote Lee Harvey Oswald, I'm just a patsy. So I guess there's still always potential that things could go in a bad direction. But yeah, I agree. Crystal. I think this is likely a very good sign.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, Melanie's not as good looking as Mangioni so we'll be less inspirational for people. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Ryan Grim]

I don't see any Hawaiian. I don't see any Hawaiian gear yet. Otherwise I think you'd be. See a lot of people calling him a boogaloo dude.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, well that was another thing. I mean that movement basically collapsed too. Yeah, that was, that was around. That was like a proud boy adjacent, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, but, yeah, but kind of wacky and cultish and. Yeah, and extremely online. Like trolley. Very trolley.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yep.

[Ryan Grim]

And you know, believed in like random violence and accelerationism and.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yep.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, well they're massive like meme that's, you know, hyper meme focused.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yep.

[Ryan Grim]

So this like, so that. Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Anyway, it's like.

[Krystal Ball]

God only knows what weird online subcultures exist that, you know, relatively normal people have no idea about. You know, be careful parents, what your kids are consuming on the Internet. I'll just say that. I mean the other part, the other part to say about the press conference is Cash Patel has been, you know, I mean is with ridiculous during this whole thing. Right. Tweeting out, oh, we've got a subject in custody and then having hours later, well, turns out that guy was innocent. Sorry. Oops, we're still looking. They delayed that press conference yesterday was supposed to be in the afternoon and reportedly, you know, it ended up not happening till like 9 o', clock, 9:30 at night. Reportedly because they were waiting for Cash and maybe Bongino as well to get into town and then they just, you know, stood there like idiots during the press. Like they hadn't, they didn't actually speak or participate at all. So you delayed this press conference. They claimed it because it was because of rapid developments which made everybody think, oh, they must be on the trail. That was not the case at that point just so that he could be there for the photo op. So clearly he was trying to project a lot of authority here in this particular press conference and a lot of command and using a lot of very Trumpian language about how historic the the man hunt was. And that's what happens when you let good cops be cops was one of the things that he said to try to cover the fact that he did not come across as a strong leader here. And there was also reporting about Listen, we know that a bunch of FBI agents have been pulled off of their jobs to assist ice. We know some of them have been like roaming the streets in dc. We know that the head of the Salt Lake City FBI office was fired. We're not really sure why in recent weeks as well. So a lot of CYA in this press conference from Cash Patel as well.

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[Krystal Ball]

America is changing and so is the world.

[Ryan Grim]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington D.C. i'm.

[Ryan Grim]

Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

[Krystal Ball]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Ryan Grim]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, that's, I mean again, what we're learning just minute by minute here is the suspect. I find this very disturbing and I think it should continue to disturb people whether or not we can, you know, rightfully celebrate that the pictures were put out there and enough that someone came forward. That's all good and I hope justice is served. This is a stone cold assassin who was able to escape a densely, a densely packed event on a college campus and stay at at large for over 24 hours. So God knows what could have happened in that time period. Thankfully, you know, doesn't look like anyone else was hurt. It doesn't look like that was the case. It doesn't look like more damage was done in the 24 hours. But if you have a, again, a stone cold assassin who murders a political speaker in broad daylight in a densely packed area, I have no stomach to celebrate their father walking them into or their father turning them in more than 24 hours after that happened. I don't think that at least as of right now reflects good police work at all. I actually think that picture of him from surveillance cameras probably could have been released. I don't want a Monday, Monday morning cornerback to me quarterback it. But it does seem to me that could have been released within three hours of the event happening rather than 24. So you have this mass panic, you have misinformation being leaked to the press in the 24 hours because there was a killer on the loose, presumably in Utah. So I just, I think, you know, it's too early to say any of that definitively because we don't know what was happening behind the scenes. But I think it's a very high possibility that this was actually a not great, a less than adequate investigation and.

[Krystal Ball]

Law enforcement response, not to mention the lack of prevention, when we know that this guy had been spotted on the roof multiple times prior to Charlie Kirk's arrival. And this tip was apparently, you know, provided and nothing done. You know, the law enforcement. So Charlie had his own security detail and then there were apparently only six police officers there to secure the event, which, you know, I know, like, certainly the landscape for people doing public events of this sort going forward is going to be a very, you know, very, very different. I, Ben Shapiro is apparently going to pick up the rest of this tour. This was supposed to be the first stop, first step, first stop on this new Charlie Kirk college tour. So he's going to pick that up. But you know, also we have to look at like, were there things that were missed leading up to the day that could have prevented this horrific series of events, you know, this horrific murder to start with.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. And I mean, obviously I have a lot of thoughts on that because part of like I'm on the board of a group that does lectures for students and student chapters and all of that and have done it myself. And I checked in with some of my friends in that space and they made an interesting point, which is that our discourse has gotten so poisoned that it's now actually also difficult to do indoor events. Because when you do an indoor event, trolls will like buy up all of the tickets. And so it's actually why you've seen a lot of conservative speakers start doing outdoor events because it kind of makes it easier to be in front of the public. And when you're doing campus stuff, nobody has like the resources to screen the roofs like local police departments don't, which to me is insane post Butler that you know, people would do an outdoor event without screening the roof. But then we're also just talking about college campuses where kids should be free to have speakers in and yell at them and challenge them and scream at them or whatever. You shouldn't have to worry about a sniper on a roof. I mean, it's so insane that this is where we are. But you, you cannot be doing outdoor events anymore where you aren't clearing a roof that's 200ft away. I mean, it's. That is such a pathetic commentary on the country. I mean that is just unbelievable on a college campus where kids are just interacting with a 31 year old like pundit. It was completely insane.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And a student could have been hit. There's, there's going to be. As we learn more about this individual, there's, you know, a lot of room for commentary also about, you know, Internet culture and what it's doing to everyone's brains. You know, as appears to be a guy from a middle class family. You know, we don't know what the life was or what struggles might have existed or whatever. But, you know, I thought, I actually thought, Emily, where you were going with your commentary when you say, I don't have room for praise of, you know, a father bringing his son in 24 hours later is. I thought you were gonna say I don't have room for praise of that father. Thank God he did the right thing in the end.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Krystal Ball]

But you raised a killer. And I do think that there's something to be said about, you know, about that as well.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So crazy. Yeah. And who. But this is what's so crazy about the Internet too, is that you have kids from seemingly normal backgrounds who are parented well sometimes. And again, I'm not making assumptions in this case, but who are parented well and don't need to be partying and doing drugs to get into the wrong crowd because it's coming through the screen. And that screen is their portal into darkness. Whereas in the past, there was more friction. You had to start, you know, getting involved in shady groups of friends or whatever it was. But now there's just way less friction to go down dark paths because it all comes from the little screen that you keep in your pocket. And that is horrifying. I can't imagine for parents how horrifying that is.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it is pretty horrifying. As a parent, I can tell you it is pretty horrifying. Just like, you know, you definitely have to be aware of what your kids are doing with their time and who they're spending their time with. If they're, you know, they're on their devices a lot, you need to take note of what sort of content they're consuming.

[Ryan Grim]

Internet is real life.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

And forget that.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, there's rampant speculation on the timeline right now. Of course, everybody, it's a Rorschach test. Everybody's seeing what they want to see in this guy and his profile and what he wrote on the bullets and whatever. So we'll, we'll let that speculation go on. But is there, are there other stories you guys want to get to while we're waiting for more? Any more news with regard to Tyler Robinson?

[Emily Jashinsky]

This is all I've been able to think about for the last couple of days. I feel you on that and it's crazy because there's a ton of stuff going. I mean we had drones over this polish skies. There's potential law enforcement going into Memphis. It's not as though this is a slow August news cycle as it was, you know, maybe a couple of weeks ago. This is a packed news cycle and just seems so hard to focus on anything else.

[Krystal Ball]

Emily, how do you think that the, that this murder will change like influencer culture and public events and how people think about their, you know, their, what they're doing, how much they're available, how, what their security situation looks like. Like what are you hearing from people on the conservative side on that?

[Emily Jashinsky]

I mean I'm, I'm scheduled to be on Megan Kelly's tour this fall actually on a stop in San Antonio with Glenn and you can imagine Glenn. I, I can't imagine the security that Glenn has to worry about constantly. So I, I mean I haven't heard anything in that space. I don't know what's up. I assume everything is, is going as planned but I also just am so I don't know about you guys. Like I'm so black pilled that a lot of what you know, elite influencer, prominent high profile influencer culture says. It just seems like there's such a dark subculture of, of irony posting and all of that that I'm, I'm glad. I liked how Dean Withers reacted. I thought that was extremely classy and I thought his raw emotion was really powerful. And I think, you know, probably 80% of Gen Z watches Dean Withers whether on the left or the right and says that was a really, that was the appropriate reaction. That's what this country should be about. Or jank like that was. That's exactly what this country should be about. But it doesn't to some extent this is the problem is with the other 20% or 10% or whoever it is who are not at all. I mean they feel like they have no control or agency and they don't give a fuck what, you know, how Dean Withers or Cenk reacts or how anyone else reacts. It just doesn't matter to them because it's all cringe and everything is ironic and there's a nihilism to it that I mean I think influencers are probably going to do some really great stuff over the next year and be great about civic debate and push each other in public and you know, try to have like really hard conversations. I think that's great. Do maybe more of what we do, which is left on right as, as often as I think that's all great, but to me, I don't know that that makes any difference whatsoever with the, the 20%, 10%, 5% of just utterly nihilistic people who are disillusioned with the political system.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, unfortunately, I'm less hopeful that that even will be the outcome. I mean, I guess for some influencers. But most of what I saw was, I mean, frankly, most of what I saw from the right, from Trump on down was like, this is war. We want vengeance. Let's crack down on free speech. Let's destroy them. You know, they want to kill us. This is, this is war. Etc. And so I didn't really see many people out there using it as a moment to say, hey, let's come together and, you know, let's turn down the temperature and resolve our differences. So. And you know, again, you've got an arsonist in the, in the White House. I just, you know, Ryan, I know you were one of the reasons we really wanted to have you on yesterday and you were traveling, so you're unable to. But we were trying to think of historic parallels to this moment because, you know, as, as awful as it is for someone to take a shot at the president, that's part of American history. There's always going to be people who want to kill president. Even, you know, even the legislators, the Minnesota legislators, that legislator who was killed in, the legislators that were targeted, it's like, okay, well, those are still political officials. Like, very unsettling. But I. Part of what made this so shocking and really sort of solidified for me that we're living through this very different era. Like, it's not new. We're living through it is the fact that he is this, you know, he's an influencer, he's an activist. Obviously, it hits really close to home. But, you know, what do you see in terms of historic parallels? Are there other periods of American life that we can look to as being even somewhat analogous here?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And I watched you guys talk about it yesterday and Sagar's right side. Yeah. I had said, you know, I couldn't think of anything other than the pre Civil War period, which is very ominous because, you know, that that's a dark like 15 years heading into what then becomes the Civil War. And he, he flagged the most famous example yesterday, which was, which is this guy, Elijah Lovejoy, who was, I believe in Ohio, either Kentucky or Ohio newspaper editor who was a hardcore Abolitionist and murdered by, you know, pro, you know, pro slavery forces. His cousin or not his cousin, I think it was his brother. Oh, and people can Wikipedia all this, but his brother was Owen Lovejoy, who was a congressman, who was anti slavery congressman who was also, it turns out, a, a, an ally of then Whig politician Abraham Lincoln. And when, when Lincoln was running for president, it was really, there was a lot of skepticism about him from the anti slavery side. Was Lincoln really with us or not? And it was Owen Lovejoy who basically was Lincoln's kind of validator to the left, saying no and no, he's one of us. He just can't really say it because he's trying to win a national election. And Owen Lovejoy got so much of his own credibility, not just from his own politics, but from the fact that he was the brother of this martyred anti slavery editor, Elijah Lovejoy. And martyrs play a radicalizing role in, in all movements. You know, Chris Edges mentioned this yesterday on Twitter that when, when movements, when somebody is martyred in a movement like Charlie Kirk just was, it sanctifies violence no matter what that particular person felt about violence. In Kirk's case, he was strongly for discourse. You can hate what he said, but he was about persuasion and argumentation. You can hate that he was for argumentation on behalf of something that you think is terrible, but he was not advocating for violence. But what happens with his martyrdom is that now people in the movement who call for discussion and debate will say no. Charlie Kirk tried that or Elijah Lovejoy tried that and look what happened to him. He was killed by our evil enemies and the only thing we can do is war. That's the only option that's left to us. And if you don't do that, you are betraying the legacy of our martyr. And, and it's very hard internally in those factional arguments to argue against that. Even if you can point to, and this states, you know, not that Charlie Kirk is mlk, but like MLK was very, you know, all about nonviolence. But what a lot of people said afterwards is, well, look what it got him, you know, it got him killed. The only path forward is to fight for him and to fight violently for him.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, yeah, because it's, I forget who said this, but it, it, it's, it shows someone who's like trying to have a back and forth and trying to say like, let's, let's debate. Let's, you know, debate really rowdily, if that's an adverb, but let's let's do it. And that effort was ended with a bullet.

[Ryan Grim]

So what people use that and say, don't do that anymore. Like it's not.

[Emily Jashinsky]

You're Gen Z. Charlie Kirk has been an ever present fixture of your social media diet for five to 10 years. And that doesn't matter whether you're political or not. This kid was on South Park. This guy was on south park because he was well known enough to be parodied on a pop culture platform like that. And you have for years been scrolling through this guy yelling at the libs, debating on college campuses, all of that on a podcast. And suddenly the video that you scroll past is him engaged in that very same, same act, and it ending literally in a geyser of blood. The point that some people will take from that is, you know, dialogue doesn't work. It doesn't work because you can end it with a bullet. And that's a horrifying. There's a horrifying takeaway that people might walk away with.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Chris Hedges wrote a piece, Ryan, I don't know if you read it, that talked some about, you know, the role of the martyr and I thought made some very salient points about the way that a martyr can be used in a movement to further radicalize. And this isn't speculative. Like, you can go and look on the timeline at the number of people who are saying, that's it, gloves are off now, we're waging war, they want to kill us. And then the President of the United States, as we played earlier, saying, you know, well, you know, it'd be nice if we could solve it at the ballot box, but that's not really possible because it's, we don't even have a ballot box, it's so rigged, etc. Etc. So, you know, that's what's like when you add those, the sense of political existential stakes, which in some ways, you know, I mean, the stakes of politics are high. Right? There's, I don't want to sugarcoat it like there is a reality that the political stakes are high, in fact. And then you add to it this tinderbox of gun culture, untreated mental illness, mass inequality, increasing the, the economics that we haven't been covering, the economic numbers this week, but they're not looking great. Things continue to trend. Higher inflation, higher inflation, higher unemployment, more jobless claims, etc. And you know, and then you have these other existential fears over AI, over climate crisis, over, you know, migration for some see that as an existential, you know, existential type fear and you're looking at, you're looking at a powder keg. That's. That's the sense. And you know, Ryan, do you think that the. So I don't, I don't particularly enjoy the pre Civil War comparison. That one is really scary. I don't love the 70s comparison either, but I guess it's somewhat less scary. Like do you think, do you see parallels with that time period as well?

[Emily Jashinsky]

The.

[Ryan Grim]

The. Yes. And probably more so with then then with pre civil war because as you pointed out on the show yesterday, the slaver class and also the anti slavery folks properly understood the fight over slavery as existential and fundamental to the soul of the country. What is that today that doesn't exist? The two parties agree on like most things.

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[Krystal Ball]

America is changing and so is the world.

[Ryan Grim]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, DC.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

[Krystal Ball]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Ryan Grim]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Iheartra Brian, I don't know if you've, you've ever read the biography of Barry Goldwater that Lee Edwards wrote. It's. He's a, he was a historian. He was actually at the Heritage foundation for a really long time, but he was Goldwater's comms director. He was at the March on Washington. He was involved in a lot of the, like, conservative political activism in the rise of the Reagan revolution. And my friend Chris Bedford and I talked to him in June of 2020 as D.C. was like in a state of rolling crisis and asked him how it compared to 1968. And I've taken a lot of for reposting this just in the last, like, I don't know, 48 hours, whatever it is now. But he said, he told us when we asked how It Compared to 1968, I was kind of like, say, like pushing him. I thought to say like, no, it's not as bad. Don't be hysterical, whatever. And he said now it's worse than 1968 because some of those like institutional points of consensus have frayed and that is a very, very different time to end. That is like so that. That you do the Civil War. Parallels feel more accurate in a point like that.

[Krystal Ball]

So guys, I wanna, Sorry, I. People are sharing a clip and now let me see if I can play it of the. The governor talking about how family members believe that Robinson had become more political in recent years. So let me go ahead and, and see if I can share this clip and we can react to it. On the other side, investigators interviewed a.

[News Reporter]

Family member of Robinson who stated that Robinson had become more political in recent years. The family member referenced a recent incident in which Robinson came to dinner prior to September 10th. And in the conversation with another family member, Robinson mentioned Charlie Kirk was coming to uvu. They talked about why they didn't like him and the viewpoints that he had. The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate. The Family member also confirmed Robinson had a gray Dodge Challenger. Investigators identified an individual as the roommate of Robinson. Investigators interviewed that roommate who stated that his roommate, referring to Robinson made a joke on Discord. Investigators asked if he would show them the messages on Discord. He opened it and showed several messages to investigators and allowed investigators to take photos of the screen as each message was shown by Robinson's roommate. These photos consisted of various messages including content of messages between the phone contact name Tyler with an emoji icon and Robinson's roommate's device.

[Krystal Ball]

So the, the commentary there again is that spoke to a relative who had been with Tyler just recently. Tyler mentioned Charlie is coming into town, talked about why he hated them him and said he was full of hate. I can tell you the. What a lot of people on the right are saying online is they're tying it into. Oh, he went to college and became radicalized so, you know, and radicalized against the right and you know, became this like murderous antifa guy. And so you can already see, you know, the. Obviously this administration already has been very aggressive against universities. The right has been very. This has been part of a political, ideological project anyway. So I fully suspect that piece will be used further to go after.

[Ryan Grim]

Maybe this is, maybe this is me just reaching for what I want to be true. But if filled with hate, recently becoming filled with hate, would they, would they be using that in the context of becoming anti fascist?

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, I guess you couldn't tell.

[Ryan Grim]

Like that filled with hate feels.

[Krystal Ball]

I couldn't tell if he was saying that he was filled with hate Tyler or whether he was saying Charlie Kirk was filled with hate and that's why he didn't like him.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Right, right.

[Krystal Ball]

It was a little bit unclear in what the governor was saying there, but.

[Ryan Grim]

People are taking it, people are taking.

[Krystal Ball]

It to mean that Tyler was saying Kirk was filled with hate.

[Ryan Grim]

Does he say, did he say anything? And maybe we can find more of this clip. But did he say anything about what these messages were? He let the clip cut off where he before he told like what the jokes were that he was telling and what the messages were.

[Krystal Ball]

I haven't seen, have not seen that. But we'll keep, we'll keep looking and seeing if, seeing if they indicated what those Discord messages were because yeah, that would certainly be, that would certainly be relevant to know and, and this, you.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Know, we don't need to even continue finding ways to underscore this, but the fact that someone was posting messages on Discord. I think, you know, we've, we've Seen the furry reference so far. Discord. That's indicative of somebody who was deep, deep in online culture.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. The radicalization seems less to be do with, you know, whatever academic institution he was at and more to do with whatever Discord server he was at.

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's crazy.

[Ryan Grim]

Also the. The arrows, it looks like. And maybe people have some better clue into this. You know where they said the down.

[Krystal Ball]

Right or upside up, right? Down, down, down.

[Ryan Grim]

Hellfire too. I mean, helldivers too or what?

[Krystal Ball]

That's what I thought too. From some video game meme.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The time says the list of messages on the suspect's casing as described by Governor Cox include apparent references to online culture and gaming. Quote up arrow, right arrow and three down arrow symbols as described by Cox may be a reference, maybe a reference to a sequence of moves on a controller that release a bomb in the video game Helldivers.

[Krystal Ball]

Wow.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Another engraving quote.

[Ryan Grim]

Griffin, I don't know if people can hear me.

[Emily Jashinsky]

O w o what's this is a phrase used for trolling in online roleplay communities.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And it's a furry specific. I guess. I don't know. The Internet was a mistake. I don't know guys, what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you. Xi is onto something in China. Shut it down. I mean, it's. This is. Yeah. I mean, the most 2025 thing you can imagine.

[Ryan Grim]

Like total gamer gamer troll, brain rot.

[Krystal Ball]

Gamer troll engravings on, you know, bullets that are used to murder prominent activists and online influencer. And with the videos being streamed into our feeds basically in real time so that we can all over and over again watch. Watch one of the goriest, most horrific things you can possibly imagine. Like what. What hell are we living through?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. Seriously, I. Yep. It's. It's hard to understand right now what this is going to do to zoomers who have already seen so much. I mean, I think back, I'm slightly younger than you guys. You guys were like, your brains were fully formed when some of the like, beheading videos were hitting Twitter in, you know, circa like 2013. I forget when. When Foley was. But I saw that when I was like probably 16. Um, and it's not normal for the human brain to experience that. It's not normal for the species to experience that where it's. You could zoom in, you can pause. It's posted so many times in the hours after Charlie was shot. It was, you know, I probably saw it 15 different times on my feed. Um, you know, if you were trying to get the news On a mainstream website. It's not like this was in the bowels of, you know, something somebody downloaded on, like, BearShare and sent to their friends over email. Like, that's not what it was. It was on a mainstream website. And it sounds trite to us now, but I'm just thinking, to somebody who was, like, probably 16 and saw a human being beheaded multiple times, like, this is so much worse. I mean, they saw Brian Thompson, they saw all of that all over. And it's a level of exposure to violence that previously only would have existed in, like, war zones. But even then, you're experiencing something physically and in person, and the, the disconnected nature of watching a total stranger that you will never meet, you do not know, and then being incentivized to weigh in either with a great thought, that's classy, or with a horrible thought, because the algorithm that pushed that video to you is also demanding a response from you.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We are, we are so absolutely fucking cooked. We're just cooked.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I mean, what else can you say? Like, and that's before we even talk about the, you know, the images of a genocide that we've been seeing every single day. The horrific video of Irina who was murdered on a, you know, public transit. And this is like, maybe I'm misremembering, but the beheading videos, like, you had to, like, actually, like, I never watched it. You had to, like, kind of intentionally. This was almost unavoidable.

[Ryan Grim]

I had a crazy.

[Krystal Ball]

Go ahead, Ryan.

[Ryan Grim]

No, no, I, I, we were breaking that in real time, and I remember I had it up and then I put it in a different tab because I didn't want to see it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And then as, and then as I'm going back to working later, I clicked on that tab not knowing what it was, and there it was. And it's still in my mind.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I mean, that image of Charlie more than a decade later will ever be out of my mind because it was, I mean, it was horrifying. And I just, you know, one thing that I can't quite fully describe or put my finger on, but, like, think about, okay, this killer puts these brain rot memes, engraves them intentionally, like, went out of his way to do this so that you and I and Ryan and the whole world could talk about it and decipher his Internet memes that he put on there for, For Lulz. And there's this sense of, there's this sense of disconnect and unreality where it's like, it's that nihilistic, nothing matters. You know, the more like, outrageous thing you say, the more like disgusting and hateful thing you say, the more sort of notoriety you get. And, and this sense that other humans are quote unquote, NPCs, right. They're not really real. I mean, there's just this, I don't know, this sense of sort of disconnect from your fellow human. And there are always going to be sociopathic type people out there who just naturally have that disconnect from humanity and are able to, you know, pull a trigger and blow someone's to bits from, you know, 200 yards away and, you know, have no regrets about it or whatever.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Or a knife in the case of Irina. Right. Like, that's right.

[Krystal Ball]

So that was a very intimate murder. You know, that's very intimate to be that close and to murder someone in that way. But yeah, I just, I have a feeling like this type of Internet nihilism is converting many more people into basically like sociopaths with little sense of fellow common humanity.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yep. And that's what, like, I'm genuinely not trying to make this a partisan or anti Trump comment. I'm saying this as somebody who's Charlie Kirk's age, 32. He was about to turn 32 when Donald Trump says what he said about elections. That is something you heard from the fringes when, when I was growing up, when we were growing up. And the fact that that came out of the President of the United States. President, United States mouth after so many people in Gen Z just saw what they saw. I think genuinely like boomers, people in Trump's demo have no idea what type of rocket fuel that is for nihilism and violence and danger. And it horrifies me to think about the, that combination. It really, really does.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, Ryan, the, you know, some of the, the violent Weather Underground and those type of movements, I mean, I feel like that comes from a similar place of like, you know, oh, well, we, the political system, like failed us. And so, you know, there's this is, this is the only thing that Matt, this is the only thing that could work. I mean, you can also see it in terms of like this, you know, the parallels are not perfect guys here. So forgive me, but the Hamas, Palestinian, like violent resistance too. It's like, hey, we tried, we tried. This thing didn't work. So our only path forward is, is violence.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. The difference between, you know, that kind of organized violence and this is that you could hate it, but it, it has and, and you can Disagree. Like, I think the Weathermen were reckless adventurists who, you know, on and on. People don't care about my, you know, Weather Underground critique. But like, the point is, like, they had. They had an idea like they were going to spark a revolution, whatever. Like, it had. It had a 1, 2, 3.

[Emily Jashinsky]

There was a grand strategy.

[Ryan Grim]

I think it's an outrageous 1, 2, 3 and stupid and counterproductive and blah, blah. But it was a. It was a 1, 2, 3. Like, what is this? Like, this feels like trolling. It feels like taking someone's life.

[Emily Jashinsky]

In.

[Ryan Grim]

The most with the flick of a wrist for a personal catharsis and just joking like you're on a Discord server to take someone's life with references to like video games, furry memes and meme and furry memes is so sacrilegious to humanity. So keep that on Discord.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Like you want to feel. You want to feel black pilled. The Weather Underground could actually organize a group of physical people to plan.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. They blew themselves up, but at least they were able to get more than one person in a room.

[Emily Jashinsky]

They were not yet. They were Right, right, right. And so that's a huge difference from lone wolf Internet radicals or Internet nihilists. Because think about. I mean, think about it. This. He was not part of a literal underground community of dozens of. Of people who are organizing in back rooms. This is somebody who was alone. When you are part of a radical revolutionary group, whether it was right or left underground or whatever else. These are people who had like, that was a sense of purpose and belonging in community. This is somebody who has no. And that's like everything that Ryan said underscore, like awful, horrible way to define community through violence like that. But this is somebody who is. Who's trying to find purpose in saying there is no purpose and is trying to make that point. The. Oh my gosh. I mean, it's just so depressing to think about.

[Ryan Grim]

I think I have a clip here that's a little bit more of the. The family member stuff. If you want to roll back through this again, just like. So we can see if we. How we.

[Krystal Ball]

Are you able to share it, Ryan?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, let me do it here.

[News Reporter]

The family member also confirmed Robinson had a gray Dodge Challenger. Investigators identified an individual as the roommate of Robinson. Investigators interviewed that roommate who stated that his roommate, referring to Robinson, made a joke on Discord. Investigators asked if he would show them the messages on Discord. He opened it and showed several messages to investigators and allowed investigators to take photos of the screen as Each message was shown by Robinson's roommate. These photos consisted of various messages, including content of messages between the phone contact name Tyler with an emoji icon and Robinson's roommate's device. The content of these messages included messages affiliated with the contact Tyler stating a need to retrieve a rifle from a drop point, leaving the rifle in a bush, messages related to a. To visually watching the area where a rifle was left, and a message referring to having left the rifle wrapped in a towel. The messages also refer to engraving bullets and a mention of a scope and the rifle being unique messages from the contact Tyler also mentioned that he had changed outfits.

[Krystal Ball]

Wow.

[News Reporter]

I know. There has been speculation as well as to the. The writing on those casings, those, Those. Those bullet casings, and I believe we have that as well.

[Ryan Grim]

Did we already do this?

[News Reporter]

And I will share that with you.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, we already got the casings. But the. So, so am I understanding right, this man murdered Charlie Kirk and then went on a Discord server to be, like, talking about the gun and talking about changing his clothes and basically asking his roommate for help? Is that what I'm understanding here.

[Ryan Grim]

That he's doing that? He's doing that police talk, which makes it deliberately difficult to translate into English, but that does feel like.

[Krystal Ball]

That is wild. That is wild. You did this and you got away. You left your gun and you're, like, talking about the gun, talking about where you left it, talking about how you changed your clothes, bragging about this to your buddy on a Discord server. Like, what?

[Emily Jashinsky]

And it took 24 plus hours. They did not. Until this person's. Again, like, until this person's dad turned them in. This was in a public place full of CCTV at a densely crowded event. And this person is bragging about it on a Discord server afterwards. And the FBI, more than 24 hours in, about 36 hours in, had nothing, except for, by the grace of God, this person's father had the willpower to turn them in. So increasingly looking like. From my perspective right now is increasingly looking like possible antifa nihilism, but also horrific law enforcement response. I mean, just. What the hell? That's crazy. That's so dangerous. It's so dangerous.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And there. And. And then Cash Patel has the temerity to go out and brag about how historic and how incredible, how incredible of a job they'd done. I mean, it's just. It's unbelievable.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, the truth is, you don't. Law enforcement doesn't have to be that great. If a picture gets out, like, Right. You're gonna get. You're gonna get found.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Because everybody is known by someone, the public. Right. And almost all the public is going to be on your side. Right. There's gonna be very few that would actually be willing to, you know, harbor the. The Charlie Kirk murder, not turn them in, you know.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. So unless he's, you know, going. He'd have to wear a ski mask. And then people be like, what the hell are you doing wearing a ski mask?

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

If this was during the pandemic, maybe he could have snuck in.

[Krystal Ball]

You could have gotten away with it. Yeah. Or if you're posing as an ICE agent, you could pull that off.

[Ryan Grim]

That's true.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm an ICE agent. On the roof. Yeah. Actually, yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

That would have been even more of a 2025 murder. And then the other aspect of it, you know, to add to the sort of dystopian unreality of the whole thing, is I know you guys saw this, like, influencer who was there, who was posting to TikTok, like, follow me on TikTok, and, like, mugging for the camera, which, again, is like, you know, even as you're living through this horror, you're still, like, somehow disconnected from it. Even as you're, like, in the real world, you're still disconnected from it. And after the fact, I know he, like, apologize, I'll be a better creator, whatever, but you're, like, disconnected from the very reality and the humanity that you are existing with and living through, because.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Your reality is that your career is tied to the algorithm. And so you are. This is like Marshall McLuhan. You are, as a human being, changed by the medium that is controlling your life. And these mediums are not changing us for the better. There's just clearly, we are being warped into our own thought processes and having dictation by the algorithm, because you start thinking in terms of the algorithm, and people need to be extremely careful about it. And we aren't. And the tech companies aren't the tech companies, X included. Elon Musk is, you know, condemning all of this, but he owns a company that has one of the most major roles in poisoning us algorithmically. Poisoning us algorithmically. So it's just like. It reminds me of the video of. That went viral in a totally different vein of that young man who was saying he was working really hard and couldn't get ahead. That went mega viral, like, a month ago. And he was dead on. In his description of the economy. It was accurate. It was poignant. And then you look at the bottom of the TikTok, and it says things like, hashtag, follow me. And it's. Think about that. I mean, hashtag, follow me, hashtag. So, like, you had hashtags, basically being like, I want to become an influencer, something to that extent. And it's just like, that is just you. I don't know that you could possibly be much more depressed about the state of the country.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And I think it's an accelerant. Like, I don't think it starts with the social media. I think it's. It's an accelerant The. The Internet culture for a society that's already sick in any number of ways. But, yeah, I don't. I don't know what to say about it. I mean, we can wrap up here pretty soon because I don't. I don't see. You know, I don't know what else we're gonna get right now, but. Ryan, you got any. Any last thoughts you want to add in here?

[Ryan Grim]

No. I mean, the only, you know, for people like myself who don't want this to be, like, a leftist, the only hope is that he's trolling with his, hey, fascist, catch and that sort of stuff.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Bella Chow.

[Ryan Grim]

And the Bella Chow. That's some kind of a troll and a misdirection. Yeah, I think I hear Mac. What's Mac saying?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, no, that was actually. It was. You heard yourself through my microphone because.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, gotcha. So, you know, these are just, you know, dark, dark, dark times, really. And it's. It's still hard to believe that Charlie Kirk is dead.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it is. I was just thinking that it feels crazy. And I mean, that's. The other aspect of this is Emily, you brought up, like, the parasocial relationship that millions have with him and will experience this as if, you know, someone who's genuinely close to them was killed.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Mm, mm, mm. I mean, it's so like. And that can go in really positive directions for some people. But again, I'm not worried about the people who are reacting healthily to this, because I know that there's a large group of people that aren't going to react healthily to this because they have no community, they have no friends, but they have a computer. And I'm just going to put this. Before we wrap, I just want to put this image that we've gotten in of Charlie's widow, now widow, on the screen, because it is just. You just look at her face. And the video emerged of her exiting Air Force Two with ushavants and just gripping onto Usha Vance. Obviously, JD Was very close friends with Charlie. Charlie helped get JD Onto the ticket by lobbying behind the scenes with Don Jr. And so this is something that this administration, I mean, again at the White House yesterday, those young Trump staffers, the level of doom that was ever present, hanging in the air the entire day and shock. It just, you know, it's one way I think, you know, we're talking now about how people in the public are experiencing this and that's right, because it's crazy. But just also think about how closely this is touching, the way that we talked about this earlier, the reactions from this administration. This is so, so personal. So personal. So it's a really scary time.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, yeah. And Trump had no, like, direct personal connection to big balls. This is someone he knew and knew closely and, you know, was looped in with the administration in any number of ways. So we'll see where we go from here. Anything else, guys?

[Emily Jashinsky]

No, I just hope you guys stay safe and.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, appreciate you guys. I'll say that. And you know, I let's, we'll end on the good. It's good news that this guy got caught, good news that he's in custody, good news that, you know, they've got him. And I'm sure we're gonna, we're gonna learn a lot more here and you know, we'll, if there's anything that pops up big over the weekend, guys, one or the other of us will try to cover it. Otherwise, Sagar and I in studio for a normal show on Monday and we will see you then.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Pull people out of nihilism, by the way. Sorry, I just want to say because like our, we have some very online people and we are grateful for all of you. If you see someone going down a dark path, do what you can to.

[Ryan Grim]

Pull them out of it.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's the best we can all do right now.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep. All right, guys, talk to you soon.

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[Krystal Ball]

Ugh.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Come on.

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Witness the new season of Reasonable Doubt Streaming on Hulu September 18th. LA's most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder. Following follow Emayatti Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Socorro and guest stars Kash Dahl and Lori Harvey as they face off in the year's most sensational trial in the pursuit of justice. Every move counts. Reasonable Doubt Season 3 is streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney September 18th. Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers, terms apply. This is an iHeart podcast.