← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
9/16/25: Trump Bombs Venezuela Boat, Israelis Say Trump Lying About Qatar Strike, NY Gov Bends Knee To Zohran, Blackpill Killers
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
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- [01:05]
Saagar Enjeti
Ah come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
- [01:09]
Krystal Ball
Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Ultra Light, Ultra powerful.
- [01:15]
Saagar Enjeti
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- [01:17]
Krystal Ball
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- [01:23]
Saagar Enjeti
Whoa, this thing moves.
- [01:25]
Krystal Ball
Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.
- [01:43]
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- [02:13]
Krystal Ball
Hey guys, Sager and Krystal here.
- [02:14]
Saagar Enjeti
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [02:22]
Krystal Ball
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:28]
Saagar Enjeti
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning morning in your inbox.
- [02:38]
Krystal Ball
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com in non Kirk news. There is still a lot going on. Let's put this up here on the screen. Trump announcing that for the second time the United States military conducted a quote, kinetic strike against positively identified extraordinarily violent drug trafficking cartels and narco terrorists in the southcom area of responsibility. The strike occurred while these confirmed narco terrorists from Venice, Venezuela, or in international waters transporting illegal narcotics, quote, a deadly weapon poisoning Americans headed to the US These extremely violent drug cartels, quote, pose a threat to the United States national security, foreign policy and vital interests. The strike resulted in three male terrorists killed in action. No US Forces were harmed in the strike. Be warned, if you are transporting drugs that can kill Americans, we are hunting you. The illicit activities by these cartels have wrought devastating consequences in American communities for decades. So that is the second time now such an extraordinary action has taken place. One of the reasons why it all matters is if we'll all recall, we had Juan David Rojas here on the show. I recommend everybody go watch that interview. Why? Because he laid out very specifically, the designation here is against Trende Aragua, which is a gang in Venezuela. Well, Venezuela, as I've laid out here before from U.S. government statistics, accounts for less than 7% of all cocaine headed to the United States. What he says there specifically about poisoning Americans, that is referring to fentanyl. Venezuela, according to DEA and published data, accounts for 0% of fentanyl that enters the United States of America. So if this is about drugs, it's a pretty shitty way to actually do drugs. To go after drugs, if you were going to, it would be Mexico, okay, or Colombia or China, which gives the precursors for fentanyl. Why are they not doing any of that? Because there's extraordinary economic implications there and it doesn't necessarily intersect with a neoconservative regime change operation which has been the literal dream of Marco Rubio and several other members of this administration. And why then? We have to take this very seriously. Trump was asked just days ago, is getting rid of Maduro an option? Here's what he had to say. We'll see what happens. Not an option or not option?
- [05:04]
Saagar Enjeti
We'll see.
- [05:06]
Krystal Ball
He had an election that was wrong. It was almost as corrupt as our election of 2020.
- [05:12]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
You know that, you know What I'm.
- [05:13]
Krystal Ball
Talking about, I wouldn't say theirs was.
- [05:16]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Much more corrupt, but it certainly corrupt.
- [05:18]
Krystal Ball
But ours was corrupt also. And just on that, do you think we will start doing strikes on the mainland, Venezuela? We'll see what happens. Look, Venezuela is sending us their gang members, their drug dealers and drugs. It's not acceptable. It's not an option or not option. We'll see. Well, let's look at the facts. The United States government has a $50 million bounty on Nicolas Maduro. 50 million. The United States military has extraordinary military assets that have only struck boats that are coming from Venezuela. The United States is here openly talking after the Secretary of State has previously, in his role, posted a photo side by side of Nicolas Maduro and of Muammar Gaddafi getting sodomized on television. What's your takeaway as to what all of that is about? And that's scary stuff, because all of this is being conducted with no justification, no authorization by Congress. It's literally adventurism at the craziest level. There's. Apparently everyone's just okay with this. And considering how wrong. I mean, this is what nobody ever asks. Second order consequences. So, for example, Maduro overflew jets over the US Military after that strike happened. And Trump was like, shoot it down, General. What, so now we're shooting down Venezuelan jets? We're in a different world then, right now. Now, it's not about drugs, now, is it? And that's when the bounty and all the previous statements here by the government all start to come together. I think everybody needs to watch this stuff very closely. Out of everything, I'm actually the most worried about Venezuela. I think it's the easiest way to cakewalk ourselves into a quagmire. I'm not saying that we're gonna invade Venezuel, Venezuela or any of that, but, hey, listen, targeted strikes on the regime and all of that. He floated it. He said it. Yeah, it's an option. Mainland strikes in the government. How do you think they're gonna respond? Yeah, it could be crazy.
- [07:21]
Saagar Enjeti
Just reverse it and imagine we were the ones who, like, our citizens were being randomly blown up. I mean, they say they're drug traffickers. There's zero reason to take them. Maybe they are, but there's zero reason to take them at their word. This is the second boat that they've blown up. The first one had 11 people on it. And as we've covered, very little of the drugs that enter this country come direct, directly from Venezuela. Is Venezuela a place that drugs travel through on Their way, sure. Are we talking about both from Venezuela, very unusual, and Trender Aragua is not involved in that type of international drug smuggling. Nor is Maduro directly connected to Trender Aragua in the way that this government that the Trump administration has asserted. I mean, let's also remember, first of all, Venezuela has been a longtime target of the foreign policy establishment here. And so especially the neocons and especially Marco Rubio. Like, specifically, if you recall, back in the first Trump administration, Venezuela already had sanctions placed on them, which is an attempt to topple the regime, by the way. That's the purpose of the sanctions, is to try to topple the regime. Trump increased the sanctions and then they did their whole, like, Juan Guaido thing. And there were also indications. I don't know if you guys remember this, but some. I think it was like a former Navy SEAL turned up there and was arrested. There were indications that we were potentially also sponsoring mercenary mercenaries to go into Venezuela to try to directly overthrow this government. The plot failed. We denied any sort of association. But, you know, you can read into that whatever you want. John Bolton, remember this went on cnn? Absolutely, I remember, and made some quip about, oh, well, it's not so easy to. This was in the wake of January 6th. He was like, well, it's not so easy to do a regime change, to do a coup. I would know. And Jake Tapper's like, what? Care to elaborate? Guess what example he brought up? Venezuela. Now he says, oh, well, you know, we only had a limited amount to do with that. And Tapper says, well, I have a feeling that you're not. You're holding some things back. You're not being totally straightforward. And Bolton. Bolton said, yeah, I probably am.
- [09:23]
Krystal Ball
When I covered the White House, one of the craziest things that ever happened is I was at this press conference when John Bolton was there, and he had a notepad on it, and he flipped the notepad around accidentally and a photographer was able to grab it, and on it, it read, 5,000 troops to Colombia. To date, we still do not have a single explanation about what that was about. And that was all in the midst of this Guaido thing. So, look, that's all I wanna caution people here. They say it's about. I just told you this has. I mean, look, maybe there were drugs on the boat. I don't know. Again, if you're gonna deploy the US Military and all of that under this justification, I think you should be honest with people. The absolute, vast majority of cocaine that enters the United States comes from Mexico, from Mexican drug cartels. All of the fentanyl comes from Mexico and from China. The precursors all come from China. All of it goes to the Mexican drug cartels. And so if that's where you were fighting, it would be a different story. It would also cause tremendous backlash inside of Mexico. And that's the reason why they won't do it. Because you can just imagine how Claudia Sheinbaum and their government, with our number one trading partner, might react. The economy of Texas and California would collapse overnight. If you just look at the amount of goods between the two, by the way, that's where lot of drugs come from too. So it's just so preposterous, just from like a very basic level. And there's a lot of other ways that we could deal with it. You know, we've had debates here and other things on the show. One of the more genius ideas I heard recently was to go to them and say, plata or plomo, which is like their famous saying, money or gold, and basically say, hey, we'll buy the fentanyl from you at double the market price.
- [10:59]
Saagar Enjeti
I was like, you know, it's actually.
- [11:00]
Krystal Ball
Not a horrible idea. We're either going to kill you or we'll buy it from you. I don't think it's so bad. At least. At the very least it would stop people from dying. But it's one of those where even that we're not seeing anything extraordinary, interesting, out of the box thinking, whatever. For fentanyl, it's, let's use this as like some sideshow to get people beating their chest. I mean, it's the same. It's like Saddam911 level connection to me, you know, to take some side actor thing and then turn it as a guise for an ideological project. Everyone should be very skeptical.
- [11:34]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, it's this cold war hangover. Plus Venezuela, you know, with oil wealth.
- [11:41]
Krystal Ball
Why do we care about Venezuela?
- [11:42]
Saagar Enjeti
Leave these people alone.
- [11:43]
Krystal Ball
We have plenty of oil. It doesn't matter anymore. We're the number one oil. We're like a net oil producer.
- [11:49]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
It's not the 1980s.
- [11:50]
Krystal Ball
And what was the oil company Citgo? Is that what it is? The Venezuelan one? I forget exactly. There was this shit. It's irrelevant. And it's like they're obsessed with it.
- [12:00]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, and not to. I mean, if you have a failed state in Venezuela, you're gonna create more of more migrants. Something you're supposed to oppose. And I mean, it's hard to even wrap your head around why they're so obsessed with this stuff. But and for Trump too, I think he just likes the spectacle of being able to post these videos. I mean, this is just like random murder, basically. Wild violation of international law. They don't even bother to give any sort of legal justification whatsoever. We're all assuming that they're going off of the war terror authorization for the use of military force, but they haven't really spelled it out. They just say like the President can do whatever he wants to do. So I think that's a big part of it for Trump too, is just being able to show how big and tough he is, that the US military can blow up some random dinghy that happened to come from Venezuela. I prefer again to talk deeply disturbing.
- [12:54]
Krystal Ball
International law is fake, but American law is not. American law is clear. You actually need. They don't have a pretext. Congress is supposed to declare war, like deploying, I mean, millions of dollars of military assets with no justification. And actually with the justification which is a total lie. I mean, they're literally. The people reacting to this are like, these are the people poisoning. Again, it's one thing you want to kill the top fentanyl producer. I might be on board for that. As if you go through the top, the top channels, but you want to go and be striking boats in the middle of the ocean, That's a very different story. Right. And using the former justification for the latter, basically using misplaced anger about drugs, the drug crisis that we have here, to transpose again onto an ideological project where I think crystal people who are casual observers, everybody who knows about neocons, they know about their obsession with Israel, about Ukraine and about NATO and stuff. But they forget the South American connection from the 1980s. That's a deep cut, which thankfully Ryan is always here to tell us. Oh yeah, yeah. So it's alive and well. Certainly is.
- [14:08]
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- [16:10]
Saagar Enjeti
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- [16:46]
Krystal Ball
Why don't we get to Qatar?
- [16:47]
Saagar Enjeti
All right, let's go ahead and put D1 up on the screen here, guys. We've got a Barack Ravid report that Netanyahu did in fact give Trump a heads up before Israel bombed Qatar. Of course, they were attempting to take out Hamas political leadership which was there gathered to assess a ceasefire proposal that had been, you know, put together probably by the Israelis, but floated by President Trump. Now we had Jeremy Scahill on while this news was breaking of this attack on Hamas political leadership within Qatar. And immediately all of us said it has to be the case that the US Had a heads up. We have CENTCOM there. We have tens of thousands of troops stationed in Qatar. There's no way that they could attack inside of Doha and feel like that would be okay without getting some sort of a heads up? Totally. So Barack Ravid here with the report says Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu informed President Trump last Tuesday morning that Israel planned to attack Hamas leaders in Qatar shortly before the strike took place, according to three Israeli officials with direct knowledge. Now, since then, Trump has come out to deny this report. And then the Israelis publicly said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, what? He said, sure, we totally didn't give him a heads up. He learned the way he says he learned the same way that all of us learned what was going on there. Okay, let's go ahead and take a listen to what Trump had to say.
- [18:11]
Krystal Ball
Did Bibi Netanyahu speak to you directly.
- [18:14]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
To alert you that Israel was going to be striking?
- [18:18]
Krystal Ball
No. Hamas sites in Kabu.
- [18:20]
Saagar Enjeti
No, he didn't.
- [18:21]
Krystal Ball
No, he didn't. Yeah.
- [18:23]
Saagar Enjeti
How did you learn of it?
- [18:24]
Krystal Ball
Same way you did.
- [18:26]
Saagar Enjeti
How did you learn? The same way you did. Okay, sure. Prime Minister's office says the White House rendition of events is correct. Israel's action against Hamas leaders in Doha was a wholly independent Israeli operation. Israel initiated, carried it out, and taken takes full responsibility. Again, this comes after three Israeli officials leaked to Barack Ravid, like, dude, of course we gave him. Of course, right? We gave him a heads up. And what that means is that you're given a green light because if the US had said no, then they would not have done it. But if they say we're doing this and there isn't an objection, that is the same as there being an affirmative green light for this action. Now, why doesn't Trump want to claim that, you know, wants to claim that he didn't know in advance? Because he doesn't wanna be in hot water with the Qataris. He wants this plausible deniability that Israel was allowed to bomb one of our allies in the region, that he has positive relationships where, again, lots of US Troops are stationed, he wants to be able to deny that. Even though it's absurd to think that the Barack Ravid version of events isn't exactly what happened.
- [19:35]
Krystal Ball
I mean, look, let's be clear here. Barack Ravid, at this point, he could be a stenographer for the Trump. He's also a stenographer, clearly, for some of the Israeli government. And I think really what has happened is that the Israelis are seeing very clearly that they were being blamed for striking Qatar without Trump approval. And while Netanyahu needs to maintain that fiction, the rest of his security cabinet's like, hold on a sec. The world needs the truth. We didn't do Shit. Without America's approval, Trump had plenty of time to call this off. In fact, one Israeli official, a fourth one, reached out to Ravid and said, Your story is 98% accurate. The only issue is you said your call was at 8:00am it was actually at 7:45am before the attack happened. That's the only quibble that I have with what you have reported. So, yeah, I mean, look, it always seemed the case. And that's what we even said. We were like, look, you have two options. Both are horrible. Israel feels compelled enough to be able to strike Qatar literally without even calling the United States. The other is that we knew about it in lies. I honestly don't know which is worse. I think knew about it and lied is 10 times worse. Because now the reporting from the Israeli officials want to come out and set the record straight. And it shows also that the Qataris themselves, they look like a joke because their entire security strategy is buy hundreds of billions of weapons from Qatar or, sorry, from the United States, we will host a U.S. base that will and should protect us. And now the whole Gulf has woken up and said, oh, my God, not only can they kill us, they killed one of our citizens. The attack failed. It didn't even kill the Hamas leaders that they wanted to. And the government will just say it's totally fine. I mean, Trump apologized for it, you know, in that statement. Since then, the Secretary of State has been like, yeah, terrorists, they're gonna get killed wherever they are, Okay? I mean, and that's why you see this. There's a Gulf confab right now where MBS and the Qataris and everybody's gathering and they're like, what are we gonna do about this? They're realizing for the first time who's actually in charge. They thought they could buy America off, and even their dollars have not been enough to protect them.
- [21:48]
Saagar Enjeti
So good luck.
- [21:49]
Krystal Ball
And also, yeah, it's gonna be great. Whenever they just look right across from the number one purchaser of oil in the world, China, and say, hey, there's a nice pretty relationship sitting right over there.
- [21:59]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, great. Absolutely right. At the same time, we're getting some leaks from withinside the Israeli administration about their actual reasons for the war with Iran, which of course were not the same as the public reasons that were given. We can put D4 up on the screen here. So this is from the Times of Israel. They say a historic moment. Leaked transcripts reveal secret deliberations at the start of the Iran war. They say Channel 13 News published the details. Part of A report set to air in full. They did not detail how they obtained the transcripts from these top secret closed door meetings. But Netanyahu said at the meeting's outset, we are at a historic moment with a crucial decision. If we don't stop them being the Iranians, within a few years, they will get tens of thousands of kilograms of nuclear explosives within a few years. Remember how this was sold? It's imminent. The breakout time is days, weeks, months away. We have to do this now. We can't wait. Within a few years, they will get tens of thousands of kilograms of nuclear explosives. Iran has already enriched fissile material at a level that is enough for eight to nine bombs. They're working on the weaponization. If we don't act, we simply won't be here. In addition, he said, they're getting close to being the second biggest powerhouse on ballistic missiles. After we destroy some of their sites and scientists, negotiations for a deal will be held in a different reality. We've held marathon discussions over many months. An unnamed senior military official told the Minister that one of the goals of the operation was to create the conditions for preventing Tehran from going nuclear in the long term and to improve Israel's strategic balance. They also of course, admit that they are completely reliant on the US in terms of damaging Fordeau. They said Fordeau will be destroyed only if the US attacks it and warned that the basic assumption is at the end of the operation, Iran will still possess enriched material. In the first few days, they'll be able to launch hundreds of rockets, rockets toward Israel. So there you go, the actual rationale here. And one more, A senior intelligence official quoted as saying, there are surprising operations we've prepared for years. Some are against surface to surface missiles in addition to an intelligence operation to disrupt enemy activities, including activity to destabilize the regime. So look, I mean, again, if you were watching our coverage, if you're following any of this, it would not be surprising that this was the reality of what was being discussed. It wasn't this imminent. Oh my God, they're getting the bomb right now. It was years down the road. Maybe we're concerned about this. And by the way, we're actively working to destabilize the regime. And by the way, we want to use the US for our purposes to rebalance the balance of power in the region. So there you go, the actual rationale here, guys.
- [24:43]
Krystal Ball
They say this shit out loud. How many attacks did I take? How many? This isn't about regime change, it's just what now huh. It's like every single time they're like, you're a hater. They said it's just about the nuclear program. And Trump said he says it behind the scenes. Regime change. It's not about an imminent nuclear threat. We're trying to kill as many civilians as possible to collapse the regime. What else is there to say, guys? It's out in the open and they just lie and lie and lie and they attack the people who warned about it. The very fact that we didn't. I mean, what should we give Trump credit for? He didn't give Bibi what he wanted, the full on.
- [25:27]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [25:28]
Krystal Ball
Yet. Right. You know, it's like, look, we got taken for a ride. If that wasn't the plan all along, again, I'm not sure what is worse, that we believed Bibi, that it was just about nukes or not, that we allowed them to bomb while we were in the middle of diplomacy or use the diplomacy as a ruse. Either way, the message is always simple, is that Israel gets to do whatever it wants. We will co sign it on the back end or the front end. You can make up your mind as to which particular one is the absolute worst. I think both are horrific and that's where we are.
- [25:59]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, absolutely. A couple more things to get to here that are really significant. So the official the bombing campaign in Gaza City had already begun. Now the ground invasion has also launched. Israelis are talking about how the bombing is so intense they feared that they were under attack. But no, of course it's still just the Palestinians. And this was very ominous. Go back to D0 guys. This was very ominous from Trump for him to say this. He said on Truth Social, I've just read a news report that Hamas has moved the hostages above ground to use them as human shields against Israel's ground offensive. I hope the leaders of Hamas know that they're getting in what they're getting into if they do such a thing. This is a human atrocity the likes of which few people have ever seen before. Don't let this happen or all bets are off. Release all hostages now. And I mean effectively what people are, are reading into this is that they're trying to pre justify the hostages getting killed in this bombing campaign, renewed bombing campaign and ground invasion in Gaza City. So when Trump says, oh, the hostages are above ground being used as human shields, then later on, if it ends up that the hostages are predictably killed in a sort of all out war assault on Gaza City, they can blame, oh, Hamas was using them as human shields. That's the reason that they ultimately got killed, not the incessant Israeli bombing and by the way, starvation campaign. I also wanted to mention that this is significant and perhaps Ryan and Emily will dig into this more tomorrow, but the UN Commission of inquiry officially concluded that Israel is committing genocide. They're calling on. I'm reading from Prem Thakar now. The UN body calls on nations to stop sending weapons to Israel, ensure people within their jurisdiction are not aiding or inciting genocide, and hold those who are accountable. So for this official UN body to come out with assessment is significant. You know, it's not going to matter in the US but in other countries around the world will take this seriously. They do have a responsibility to, you know, to prevent genocide and not aid or incite genocide. So, you know, can be further pressure on the Israelis and certainly Israelis who are trying to travel abroad. So, you know, that was a significant finding. And then the other piece that we wanted to bring to you guys, if we could put D5 up on the screen. Haaretz did this investigation into mental breakdowns and suicides within the idf. But in the context of talking to these soldiers about their trauma from what they saw and what they did in Gaza, they also elicited a bunch of confessions of a variety of war crimes committed against Palestinianians by the IDF. Let's go ahead and put a couple of these up on the screen so you can get a sense. This says, for my son, a sniper in the Nahal Brigade, changing rules is no longer enough. The wound he describes is already too big. It's gone very deep. It started before. For about two months, every day we have the same mission to secure the humanitarian aid in the northern Gaza Strip. His day and that of his friends begins at 3:30 in the morning. Accompanied by drones and armored forces, they set up a sniper position and wait. According to him, between 7:30 and 8:30 the trucks arrive and begin unloading their contents. In the meantime, the residents try to move forward to take a good place in line. But there's a line ahead of them that they do not know. Notice a line that if they cross, I can shoot them, explains Benny. It's like a game of cat and mouse. They try to come from a different way every time. And I'm there with the sniper rifle and the officers are shouting at me, take it down, take it down. I shoot 50 to 60 bullets every day. I stopped counting Xs. That means death. I have no idea how many I killed a lot children. So that is a description of the. That is a confession of the Routine aid massacres that journalists, Palestinians, whistleblowers have been doctors have been speaking about with regard to aid distribution. I think we have one more for you that we can put up here on the screen. They say they forced him, threatened him. The battalion commander would scream over the radio, why aren't you taking off? They're advancing on us. It's dangerous. He describes an example of the pressure. The feeling is that we're being placed in an impossible situation. No one prepared us for it. Officers don't care if children die, nor do they care what it does to my soul as far as they're concerned. I'm sorry. Just another tool. So you know, it's kind of gross to frame this in the context of like, oh, these poor soldiers who committed war crimes now have trauma and stress. But very useful reporting and confessions of these routine war crimes and atrocities and the fact that this is coming from the top. Remember for so long we were sold soccer. Oh, there may be some rogue bad actors, they're just undisciplined, they need to stop recording this stuff on their phones, et cetera. I mean now it is just absolutely clear the plan is from the top. This is an intent of leadership and you know, the, the UN just joining the world consensus that this is an intentional genocide which has been architected from the top.
- [30:49]
Krystal Ball
Well, if anybody wants to dispute this, it's from Israeli media as usual.
- [30:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Directly from IDF soldiers to quote Mr. Kirk.
- [30:58]
Krystal Ball
Probably not Hamas to quote the late Mr. Kirk. I feel like Israelis can criticize their government more than IDF can. What a country.
- [31:07]
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- [33:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty, which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty confidence is beautiful. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com let's get to the updates with regard to Zoran and some very interesting and intriguing comments from Senator Chris Van Hollen. Senator Van Hollen of Maryland traveled to Iowa to make some comments and call out Democratic leaders for not endorsing Zoran Mamdani in his race for the New York City mayoralty. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.
- [34:06]
Krystal Ball
Fellow Americans and Iowans, we are at an inflection point. The country's not going to fix itself. The national party is not going to fix itself by itself. It's up to all of us. It's up to all of you. And it means supporting our Democratic nominee in New York City's mayoral race, Zoran Mandami. He is focused on ensuring that people can afford to live in the place place that they work. That should be our goal in New York City, Des Moines, and every town and city and place across the United States of America. Donald Trump and New York's financial elites see that as a threat. The idea that everybody who works in New York City should be able to afford to live in New York City, and they have mobilized to defeat them. Yet many Democratic members of the Senate and House representing New York have stayed on the sidelines. That kind of spineless politics is what people are sick of. They need to get behind him and get behind him now.
- [35:19]
Saagar Enjeti
So interesting there both in terms of the content saying this is exactly the kind of spineless politics people are disgusted with the Democratic Party. Sagar I think that is absolutely the case. Him directly calling out the New York Democrats, which would include Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Kirsten Gillibrand, for not endorsing the Democratic nominee Zoran Mandani. And also raises the question of whether Chris Van Hollen, since this was given in Iowa, may be himself positioning for a presidential run, which is kind of interesting. He has been a bit of a leader, I would say, in Trump 2.0. He's the one who flew down to meet with Kilmar Abrego Garcia and really made a lot of noise about that. Abrega Garcia being from having lived in Maryland. So he's also been outspoken in terms of Gaza. Now, he's not like where I am. He doesn't call it a genocide, but he did just go alongside another Democratic member and they released a report saying this is ethnic cleansing. So he has been one of the more consistent and courageous voices. He's also one of the ones who went tried to observe the aid distribution. They wouldn't let him on the airplane to do the flyover. He'd been there earlier as well. You know, more approximate to October 7th. Also blowing the whistle on, hey, the reason sufficient aid isn't getting in, it's not because of, of Hamas, it's because of the Israelis. So he has sort of staked down a leadership position for himself. So that was kind of interesting. A couple other things here. There's just this, I think there's a sense now of inevitability around Zoran and a lot of politicians, some politicians trying to kind of like make their peace with it and stake out their position. Kathy Hochul, governor of New York, put out this op ed saying, I am endorsing Zoran Mandani. I mean, it's crazy that you even had to think about it since he's the Democratic nominee. She goes out of her way in this piece to be like, oh, I disagree with him, I disagree with him, I disagree with him. But he's our guy and he's better than the alternatives. Hakeem Jeffries responded to Chris Van Hollen's attack on him. Mr. Jeffries has hinted he was moving toward a decision on endorsement. By the way, Zoran won his district Hakeem Jeffries by like double digits digits quite handily. Leader Hakeem Jeffries will have more to say about the general election well in advance of November 4, said a spokesman. Meanwhile, confused New Yorkers are asking themselves the question Chris Van who? So that's where we are with that. Meanwhile, it looks like maybe Eric Adams E5 is going to drop out of the race potentially. But we got these indications before, so we'll see. Tara Rosenblum reporting to sources tell me New York City Mayor Eric Adams has made a decision will likely drop out of the New York City mayor's race by the end of this week week and I think in a final sign of desperation, Andrew Cuomo is trying to pretend like he hasn't been stridently pro Israel to the point of even being a lawyer for Benjamin Netanyahu himself. New York Times reporting Cuomo's staunch supporter of Israel says horrific Gaza War must end Remarks were a departure for former Governor Andrew Cuomo, who trails Assemblyman Zoran Mamdani in New York City mayor's race and But I think this one saga with Cuomo here is maybe the most significant sign of the times because you'll recall in the primary, Cuomo really thought it was a winning argument for him to attack Zoron and his opposition to Israel to Zionism and to Israel's genocide in Gaza. He's the one who made that an issue in the primary. Now we're in the general election, so presumably a less liberal electorate. So if that message was going to stick anywhere, it would be with the general electorate. And even Cuomo, who has been a consistent strident defender, is looking at the polls and going, I got to change my tune a little bit if I'm going to have a prayer of winning this mayor's race. And I don't think he has a prayer at this point anyway. But it's more interesting to see that in his last desperate flail he's realized, I think even he needs to reposition himself with regard to Israel and Gaza.
- [39:23]
Krystal Ball
This is what makes Hakeem Jeffries so extraordinary. It's like the governor endorsed him. What are we doing here? It's so obvious around it. This is just what being a Democrat is now, by the way, it's kind of an interesting prospect, actually, for how he's going to navigate what it's like to be mayor. I'm pretty curious. Mr. Zoron is a lot smarter than a lot of his critics give him for. I don't know if you saw he's gonna apologize to the NYPD about calling them racist in 2020. Let that be a lesson. Shitl is you actually should backtrack on a few things if you wanna get yourself elected.
- [39:56]
Saagar Enjeti
But on the other hand, he's also going to instruct them that they need to arrest Netanyahu if he comes into jail.
- [40:02]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, great.
- [40:03]
Saagar Enjeti
I'll take that trade.
- [40:04]
Krystal Ball
It's equal application of the law. We believe in the law, not defunding the police. And Mr. Shalwar Kami shit lived that he used to be. So let it be a lesson, you know, ditch the Shalwar and the third worldest weirdo act and just, you know, put a suit on and be normal. And you yourself, yourself can take extraordinary positions and you can get the governor and the Democratic establishment and win the primary and make your way. So I am curious to see in particular how he gets, you know, how he navigates all of this and what it's like. It is very telling to see the Hakeem Jeffries, you know, the way that he is reacting because he is the literal leader. I don't know, I just. It just feels Tea Party esque to me.
- [40:49]
Saagar Enjeti
Oh, yeah.
- [40:50]
Krystal Ball
I actually would say on Zoron's part, dude, you need to like, man up a little bit here and start attacking them straight up. Like, maybe not Schumer, because he's the. He's the New York senator. And I know Hakeem Jeffries is from New York as well, but I don't know, at a certain point, take on the Tea Party thing. These corrupt, you know, politicians are taking money from their donors and telling them not to endorse me. I fight for you and they don't. And you should vote their asses out of office. Something like take all on a posture. If they're going to act with such impunity. Why should you not just take up the call of battle?
- [41:24]
Saagar Enjeti
I think in terms of the politics of it, that makes sense. I think he also has an eye. I mean, he's basically won this race. There a new poll out today that has. Even if Adams and Sliwa drop out, he's still leading Cuomo by double digits. So this race is over. I think he has an eye towards governing and the Newark governor can make your life miserable. Just ask Bill de Blasio. Because when Andrew Cuomo was governor and de Blasio was minister mayor, they were legendarily at each other's throats. Now, de Blasio actually was still able to get through his pre K, universal pre K, which was an extraordinary achievement over the fierce objections and roadblocks of Cuomo. But if you are able to have something approximating a working relationship with the governor of New York, your mayoralty is more likely to be successful. Now, with regard to Hakeem Jeffries, that's a different deal. I'm sure he is influential in New York. I don't really have a clear picture of how influential or how that works or what sort of pain he could cause for Zoran. But I think in addition to the Israel piece with Hakeem Jeffries, the other part is as Democratic leader, I think he wants to extract some sort of promise from Zorin that he's not gonna back other primary challenges. And so what's ironic is that from Hakeem Jeffries holding out and Chuck Schumer holding out and all of these mainstream Democrats holding out, I think they only spark more fury and interest from the left of the party to primary people. Not to mention, let's say in 2028 they get their centrist, establishment Democratic nominee for president. Every lefty is gonna turn around and say, vote blue, no matter who. That didn't apply when we're talking about Zoron. So I think they are being very short sighted and creating a lot of problems for themselves. And you're right, it does have Tea Party vibes. Hakeem Zoran is wildly more popular in New York than Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer is.
- [43:20]
Krystal Ball
That's why I'm saying he should just take it up and be like, no, I'm, you know, it's like, I'm the captain now, bitch. You know, like, take over.
- [43:26]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's.
- [43:27]
Krystal Ball
I want to see more of that energy. These people just got to go.
- [43:31]
Saagar Enjeti
I support that energy.
- [43:32]
Krystal Ball
Not even just for the left thing, because I don't care about left takeover. I hate this ossified structure. It's undemocratic, it's narcissistic. It's the worst of politics. We need to normalize for all parts. When you suck, you gotta go. And like, that was the best part of the Tea Party energy at its best was just like, no, you're done. And I think Democrats need more of that.
- [43:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I'd like to see more of that. That's what the Democratic base is.
- [44:00]
Krystal Ball
I know. That's why I'm saying, Zoron, the rest of these guys step up like, you know, like, go after them. Be like, screw you I'm gonna win. No, at this point, like, you will win 100%. So now, like, you gotta fight.
- [44:12]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, look at Platner and Maine. This guy has never run for anything, comes out of nowhere and now is like elbowing the sitting governor of Maine potentially. On other. I still think she's gonna run, but.
- [44:23]
Krystal Ball
I think she is, too.
- [44:24]
Saagar Enjeti
I think he's gonna win the primary and he is being more, you know, I mean, they asked him, will you vote for Chuck Schumer for leader? He's like, yeah.
- [44:30]
Krystal Ball
He was like, no. Yeah, exactly.
- [44:31]
Saagar Enjeti
You know, he didn't mince words about it. He's like, no, we need to go in a different direction. We'll see who the options are. But not Chuck Schumer. So this is a, it is a winning model. The Democratic base is absolutely hungry for it. And I do think you're gonna see a lot of other we already saw it with, you know, even in our interview with Alyssa Slotkin, you're going to see a lot more mainstream Democrats trying to reposition themselves on Israel because they realize that they have become wildly out of step with where the Democratic base is and that it's a big problem for them politically.
- [45:02]
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- [47:03]
Saagar Enjeti
Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well I don't know about you but like I never liked being told oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty, beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningfulbeauty.com com.
- [47:39]
Krystal Ball
Crystal what are you taking a look at?
- [47:40]
Saagar Enjeti
We are still in the early days of divining the specific motivations and downward spiral that led Tyler Robinson to go from Mormon conservative upbringing to public execution of a leading Trump world figure. But one piece of his ideology is pretty clear edgelord. According to authorities, the one piece of evidence Robinson intentionally discarded started was his weapon and ammunition engraved with various irony laden brain rot Internet phrases.
- [48:05]
Krystal Ball
The casing on the shot that ended Charlie Kirk's life was engraved with a 12 year old furry bashing meme notices bulge uwu what's that? Which tells us an important thing. This assassination was a shitpost. That is the lens to analyze it through. Another of the casings references a video game Helldivers 2 and a specific bomb that you could send on your enemies in the game with the command upright, down, down down down. This command line sort of became a meme in image boards where it would be deployed to kind of represent, you know, ending an argument, but almost more so as just like if you know, you know. And that sort of signals the in group there. Another of the four casings references Bella Ciao which is an Italian anti fascist anthem from the World War II era that has stuck around and remained very popular online. It's been used both in left and right wing political contexts and it's used in a lot of video games. And then the fourth and final shell casing was engraved with if you're reading this you're gay. At least in al this was a shitpost it was designed to be maximally disruptive and incomprehensible, cloaked in layer upon layer of irony, so that nobody would know what he really meant unless they were our guy. This performs a kind of nihilism that plays really, really well on particular image boards and discord servers where this guy spent most of his life. And I say most of his life because that furry meme is from 2013. He was 10 years old when it was first posted and became popular. He, like you and I, grew up alongside this part of the Internet that trickled out through the other platforms that we went on and has actually informed and driven a lot of our politics.
- [49:32]
Saagar Enjeti
If you're reading this, you're gay. Laughing my ass off. The world of Internet memes and Black pill Nothing matters. Humor bursting into the real world in the form of a public spectacle of murder. The ultimate way, I guess, to achieve notoriety both IRL and online. To guarantee you live forever in Internet lore and political history. To enlist yourself as a warrior in some imagined culture. Cause to make it so your piece of shit life leaves a mark. Robinson was extremely online, apparently, but not in the way that someone like me might have meant it. In the race to turn up a social media footprint for Robinson and uncover the killer's true ideological motives, Internet sleuths have come up pretty up to handy. His brand of way too online was apparently Discord servers, video games, perhaps some black pill meme soaked message boards. That's what we're being told anyway. And if this is true, Robinson appears to be part of a broader trial trend. We are witnessing the rise of the black pill killers, predominantly young white male misanthropes memeing themselves into radicalism and violence. You don't have to look far for some other examples. In fact, on that very same day that Tyler was allegedly lying on a roof, meme laden, ammo in hand, 16 year old Desmond Holly shot up his Denver area high school, critically injuring two students before turning the gun on himself. Holly was apparently fond of neo Nazi symbology and a gore forum called Watch People Die. He lionized previous school shooters, including the Columbine killers who kicked off the school shooting horror in the very same county where Hawley would then go on to conduct his own rampage. According to the Denver Post, Hawley's online profile was quote, littered with references to mass shootings and anti Semitic views. A sheriff's office spokesperson said he had been, quote, radicalized through an online extremist network, but has left details of that network vague. Hawley also apparently drew inspiration from a different black pill Wisconsin mass shooter whose alleged manifesto was titled, quote, war against Humanity. In that manifesto, the author writes that humans are filth and society is a plague and that their own parents are scum. This all, of course, follows closely on the heels of the mass shooting at Church of the Annunciation in Minneapolis. That killer Robin Westman, posted a long YouTube video, including journal writings littered with Internet and cultural references that were all over the map and very confusing. In particular, Westman's weapons were inscribed with over 100 different symbols and messages. Things like release the list, nuke India, skibidi, some Cyrillic writing, and references to a bunch of other school shooters. Potentially the most revealing inscription said, quote, there is no message. Now, some analysts have theorized that Westman may have been radicalized by an online nihilist subculture that glorifies acts of violence, as in group currency called 764 or 09A. Could be, but who knows? Westman also had a history of mental illness, intrusive violent thoughts and suicidal ideation. Trump's attempted assassin, Thomas Matthew Crooks, might also fit the mold of the black pill killer. Like Robinson, Crooks was a high academic achiever. He scored a 1530 on his SAT. Classmates describe him as a bit of a loner, a bit of an outcast, frequently bullied. His Google history showed that he was searching for information on depression. Authorities have never fully explained a motive for his attempt on Trump's life, but he was apparently searching for nearby appearances for a whole host of political figures, everybody from Joe Biden to Merrick Garland to Catherine, Princess of Wales. In addition to Trump suggesting he was basically open to murdering any major political figure who happened to come nearby, officials found a social media account linked to crooks that they said had allegedly posted extreme anti Semitic and anti immigrant content. Now, in each instance, the overarching ideology here appears to be nihilism, the belief that nothing matters, humanity is garbage, the world is ending, everything sucks and there is no redemption. It is this black pill belief that spawns a trans neo Nazi school shooter posting racist Internet crap alongside Trump hate. Or a gun loving white guy scrawling hey fascist Catch, in a truly excellent new piece Ready to Bore, argues that in these spectacular acts of political science violence, we are witnessing murder as a form of meaning making, with the ideological content scraped together semi randomly in a desperate attempt by the killer to cast themselves as part of some broader community and project. DeBoer calls this quote, cargo cult meaning making. He writes the tail wags, the dog acts. We have grown to see as expressions of meaning are in fact childish attempts to will meaning into being through violence. Now this argument is likely going to be the most difficult to accept in the case of Tyler Robinson, who chose of course an extremely ideological figure, Charlie Kirk, as the target for his assassination and inscribed pseudo political phrases on the bullets of Tyler. Freddie writes quote, someone who scrawls an Italian antifascist slogan onto a bullet casing and also if you read this you are gay lmao as well as obscure video game references. This is exactly who I'm talking about. Clearly he had some sort of ideological urge, some sense that his violence should contain meaning, but his impulses and influences are incoherent. Indeed, that urge has been inculcated in online communities that are defined by nothing so much as, well, nothing the all consuming lol lol lol of contemporary sad young man online culture forum after forum dominated by an endless race to the bottom of nihilism and self hater hatred. I'm going to guess that Robinson has not deeply read in the works of Camillo Bernieri. I think instead that he saw some quotes pop up randomly in the same frenetic and directionless discord servers where he lived the rest of his life and thought they would be cool things to write on a bullet. Now we may still learn more about Robinson that throws a more coherent political ideology into relief, but even if we do, it will not erase the message he wanted to send from those lol nothing matter shitposting bullets, the one thing that he left intentionally at the scene. Now crooks and Robinson are particularly significant. I think they both signal the merging of the school shooter archetype with the political assassin archetype social outcast. Young white men stewing in a brew of disaffection potential mental health issues. It makes sense though, doesn't it? If you're looking for notoriety in modern America, school shootings have become so common they barely radiate anymore. If you want infamy, you're going to have to up the ante. Political murder still packs that horrific shock factor that these killers apparently crave. And if you're looking to conjure meaning for a meaningless life, the whole nation will desperately scramble around looking for clues in order to assign a coherent ideology. Now early speculation about Robinson's motive focused on the possibility he was a groper. That looks very unlikely at this point, but a TikTok explaining the differences between Groper9 nihilist and Charlie Kirk style Christian nationalist actually helped very effectively to unpack the black pill worldview and understand why it can be so appealing for so many. If you're looking at a swirl of.
- [56:34]
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- [56:37]
Saagar Enjeti
A motive, you're going to misread this story. What looks like politics is often subculture. What looks like a manifesto is sometimes a dare wrapped in a joke, wrapped in a voice void. The black pill is the conviction that decline is irreversible. If nothing can be redeemed, then the only creative act is negation. And that's where accelerationism comes in. In this context, acceleration means pressing on every social fault line. Race, gender, religion, class. Until something breaks. It is not policy, it's physics. The expectation is collapse, followed by. By nothing.
- [57:15]
Krystal Ball
It packages three things people crave when they feel powerless.
- [57:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Certainty, community, and a role. Certainty says the game is rigged and doom. Community says we are the ones who get the joke. And a role says speed the ending. It is a toxic story. It's also tidy and it's available 247 on your phone. The antidote is not to romanticize institutions that have failed people. It's to refuse the seduction of entropy as identity. Now, it's counterintuitive, at least to me, but I guess it can feel good to give up on everything, to succumb to hopelessness, embrace the fatalism. I'm cooked, you're cooked, society's cooked. And the only thing to do is to set it all ablaze. The Internet, of course, is acting as an accelerant here, disconnecting us from real life, from real human beings, radicalizing some and launching its twisted fruit into the real world. But remember, most other countries in the world have full Internet access. They have gaming, they have algorithms, AI and messenger. Yet the mass shooting epidemic, it is a uniquely American epidemic. I suppose it turns out when you take the toxic brew of gun culture, hyper individualism, mass inequality, untreated mental illness, and a failed and unresponsive democracy, you get a whole lot of young men who feel like they are doomed to failure and have zero stake in society. Rage, bait. Algorithms are just gasoline on that fire. And I fear we are just now beginning, beginning to see the consequences. Freddie DeBoer has something to say about the risks ahead as well. In a healthy system, we can absorb the shocking actions of a single or even a handful of these types of black pill killers. The overall national landscape would continue to be governed by policy, elections, social structures, civic life, those sorts of things. Do we live in a society that feels to you like it's got those sort of shock absorbers? Right now we are already watching as the right launches a witch hunt, declares war on the political left, backed by the President of the United States and his most powerful advisor, Stephen Miller. Miller There is no seeming end to the cultural and material factors as well that have sent so many young men spiraling into this sort of online oblivion. As Freddie writes, quote, there's a moment when the ambient low level radiation of purposeless violence ceases to be mere noise and becomes the trigger for a terminal feedback loop. We appear poised at the event horizon of a cascade where the smallest act committed in the absence of ideology could initiate a period of truly ugly and spectacular public violence, a kinetic reaction that will reshape the social phase space with terrifying, unpredictable certainty. Indeed, we are all, I think, filled with a sense of existential dread that while Charlie Kirk might be the first, he will almost certainly not be the last. And this is Sager the thing that is most disturbing to me is we can all see this condition.
- [60:02]
Krystal Ball
And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at BreakingPoints.com.
- [60:22]
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- [61:20]
Krystal Ball
Witness the new season of Reasonable Doubt, Streaming on Hulu September 18, L.A. s most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder. Follow Emma Yatty Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sikora and guest stars Kashdaw and Lori Harvey as they face off in the.
- [61:38]
Saagar Enjeti
Year'S most sensational trial.
- [61:40]
Krystal Ball
In the pursuit of justice, every move counts. Reasonable Doubt Season 3 is streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus September 18th Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers.
- [61:51]
Saagar Enjeti
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Saagar Enjeti
Running out of patience. Running out of treats, Running the vacuum.
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- [62:17]
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- [62:22]
Krystal Ball
This is an I Heart podcast.