9/23/25: Trump H1B Mess Causes Panic, Venezuela Regime Change, Former CIA Director Praises Former Al-Qaeda Head

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode: September 23, 2025

Main Themes:

1. The Trump administration’s “H1B Mess” and its implications for US immigration and tech labor
2. Emerging signs of a possible US-backed regime change in Venezuela
3. UN “psychedelia”—including a former CIA director openly praising a former Al-Qaeda leader

---

1. Trump’s H1B Visa Policy Shakeup (02:30–24:09)

Overview:
Saagar, Krystal, and Ryan dig into the chaos and controversy around the Trump administration's drastic proposal—a $100,000 H1B visa application fee—and the subsequent panic among big tech, visa holders, and policy experts. They analyze the system’s exploitative aspects, the political motives behind the move, and deeper questions about America's brain drain, wage competition, and global talent flows.

Key Discussion Points:

• H1B Basics:
  Companies use H1B visas to bring in highly skilled foreign workers when "no American can do this job." Proponents champion it as a win-win; critics argue it's exploitative and undercuts US worker wages.
• Worker Exploitation:
  H1B holders are often tied to one employer, can't easily switch jobs, and may accept lower wages for a faster green card track.
  Quote [03:41, Saagar]:
  “There are some downsides there for the employee. They're willing to take a lower wage, largely. Why? Because it's a very easy way to get residency in America.”
• Political Spectrum Agreement:
  Both left (Bernie Sanders) and right (Trump wing) see structural issues and exploitation.
• Tech and Business Reaction:
  Tech sector calls H1B critical to US innovation. Administration's $100,000 fee panics big business, leading to a fast clarification walk-back.
• Rollout Chaos:
  Initial announcement (impossibly high annual fee, retroactive application) sows mass confusion. Clarification: one-time fee, new applicants only, health care exceptions anticipated. Quote [07:18, Saagar]:
  “This will ensure that the people they’re bringing in are actually very highly skilled...I don’t know a single employer who would pay $100,000 per year. That’d basically end the H1B system.”
• Root Problems Addressed:
  • H1B “should be reformed so that the worker holds the visa, not the employer” (Ryan, 10:28).
  • The “brain drain” issue: US attracts talent from developing countries, harming source nations.
• Changing Global Dynamics:
  • India and China: Stronger domestic economies mean fewer are eager to emigrate.
    Quote [17:02, Saagar]:
    “A lot of [Indians] are like, ‘Yeah, you know...I’m living a pretty good life on $100,000 a year. If I go to San Diego...I’m living in a shack.’”
• Tech Layoffs Undermine ‘Shortage’ Narratives:
  • Ongoing big tech layoffs (e.g., Microsoft) call into question the need for more H1Bs.
• Wider Economic Questions:
  • System reinforces stock market gains for a small elite, not broad-based prosperity. Quote [22:28, Saagar]:
    “That goes to my other argument...the whole world would be better off if we just collapse. This whole thing is just utterly ridiculous.”

Timestamps for Critical Segments:

• H1B breakdown and political split – 02:30–06:53
• Fee rollout confusion & clarifications – 06:53–09:40
• Exploitation and structural issues – 09:40–14:43
• Brain drain, changing global labor dynamics – 14:43–18:52
• Tech layoffs and business interests – 23:43–24:09

---

2. Venezuela: Signs of Regime Change (26:10–39:13)

Overview:
Ryan provides a detailed summary of rising military operations in Venezuela, the US’s shifting narrative around “narco-terrorism,” and the risk of overt or covert regime change. The hosts contend that US action, cloaked as anti-drug policy, is more about domestic politics and the interests of Cuban/Venezuelan exiles and neoconservatives than anything inherent to US security.

Key Discussion Points:

• Escalating US Military Operations:
  • Trump boasting on Truth Social of US strikes against alleged Venezuelan drug traffickers; at least three ships destroyed.
  • $50 million US bounty on Maduro’s head amid heightened militia activity. Quote [27:40, Ryan]:
    “Trump has been hanging out in the Oval Office watching Netanyahu assassinate whoever he wants...Wait a minute, you can just do that?”
• Pretext vs. Reality: Drug Trade or Power Projection?
  • US claims ships carry cocaine, but co-hosts question motivations and effectiveness.
  • Dominican Republic closely follows US lead—little agency in these operations. Quote [30:25, Ryan]:
    “Dominican Republic doesn’t have any agency ... we tell them which way is up and which way is down.”
• Domestic Political Driver:
  • Policy driven by “neocons in Miami,” especially exiled Venezuelan elite and Cuban-American hardliners (ex: Rubio as Sec. of State shaping priorities).
  • Oil and migrant issues are bargaining chips—not existential security concerns.
• Selective Focus:
  • 99% of fentanyl comes from Mexico/China, not Venezuela, yet policy targets Venezuela for “narco-terrorism.”
• Military Posture:
  • New York Times reports: US military buildup aimed not just at drug interdiction, but at toppling Maduro. Quote [37:14, Saagar]:
    “I don’t think it’s a ‘might be’ when you put a $50 million bounty on a guy’s head.”
• Why Care About Venezuela?
  • Because of domestic political interests, not actual threat. Quote [38:09, Saagar]:
    “A bunch of rich Venezuelan ex patriots who are living in Miami, they're butthurt, voting for…they unironically did vote for this.”

Timestamps for Critical Segments:

• Venezuela situation setup – 26:10–31:26
• Targeting Venezuela under “anti-drug” rhetoric – 31:26–34:58
• Neocon political priorities and Miami influence – 34:58–38:52
• Debunking the “security” rationale – 38:52–39:13

---

3. The UN: Former CIA Director Praises Ex-Al-Qaeda Leader (41:14–53:27)

Overview:
A mind-bending segment highlighting a scene at the UN where former CIA Director and Gen. David Petraeus publicly interviews and praises Ahmed Al Shara, ex-Al-Qaeda in Iraq leader and now “President of Syria.” The hosts condemn the hypocrisy, the normalization of previous terrorists so long as they’re politically useful, and the cynicism it reveals about US foreign policy post-9/11 and War on Terror.

Key Discussion Points:

• Absurd UN Moment:
  • Petraeus hosts Al Shara onstage, referring to his time fighting “on different sides” in Iraq—now lionizing him as a “visionary head of state.” Quote [42:47, Al Shara]:
    “We moved from war to discourse. Someone who went through war knows most the importance of peace...what's important is to focus on defending people from the threats they face.”
  • Petraeus compliments Al Shara’s “demeanor,” vision, and wishes him success. Quote [47:21, Petraeus]:
    “Your vision is powerful and clear...Your success is our success.”
• Implications and Disgust:
  • Saagar reflects on years spent fighting Al-Qaeda only for US officials to now embrace them for “playing ball with Israel.” Quote [43:23, Saagar]:
    “Just imagine you are an American soldier...and for that commander and then the former CIA director to be sitting across, smiley and googly eyed at a literal terrorist...it’s too much for me.”
  • Hypocrisy: US “playground for world powers” (Russians, Saudis, Turks) turns Syria into a warzone, displacing millions.
• Endgame and Migration:
  • The original rationale for US engagement in Syria was supposedly to check Assad and prevent migrant crises—yet post-war, the new strongman is embraced if geopolitically convenient.
• Acknowledgment of Historic Mistakes:
  • Saagar credits critics and “conspiracy theorists” who argued the US’ real aim was power games and that it would back unsavory actors for strategic gain.
• Connections to Israel:
  • US policy, at core, reflects Israeli security interests—new Syrian leader’s possible openness to Abraham Accords and border deals cited as cause for US support now. Quote [49:53, Saagar]:
    "We spent 25 years...fighting the war on terror for this to be the end. It's sick."

Timestamps for Critical Segments:

• Petraeus/Al Shara UN event – 41:14–43:21
• Saagar’s reflection on the war, US policy, and hypocrisy – 43:21–45:43
• Further details on Israel, regional deals, and shifting alliances – 48:27–50:34
• Historical context: funding death squads & strategic butchers – 52:43–53:13

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On exploitation of H1B workers:
  "The company controls your wage. But second, you know, baked into the contract not only of your lack of competition... part of the wage you accept is a fast track to a green card."
  — Saagar, [04:00]

• On the selectivity of US immigration policy:
  "Despite how well things are going in a lot of these other countries, we still do have...a university system that is the envy of the world."
  — Ryan, [20:13]

• On US motives in Venezuela:
  "Who wants regime change in Venezuela other than the neocons in Miami?...That's all you need because the lead neocon in Miami is the Secretary of State."
  — Ryan, [31:26]

• On the collapses of US foreign policy narratives:
  “Imagine you are an American soldier...and for that commander and then the former CIA director to be sitting across, smiley and googly eyed at a literal terrorist...it’s too much for me.”
  — Saagar, [43:23]

• On the hypocrisy of “war on terror” rhetoric:
  "All of the naysayers who were like, this is all a deep state cover to go after Assad and to prop up Al Qaeda. They were 100% correct. Because look at the end state of where it all came about."
  — Saagar, [52:43]

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Episode Structure

• [02:30–24:09]: Trump’s H1B visa policy, exploitation, tech’s reaction, economic & political effects
• [26:10–39:13]: Venezuela—US military escalation, “narco-terrorist” pretext, Miami politics, regime change logic
• [41:14–53:27]: The UN spectacle—Petraeus and Al Qaeda, implications for US foreign policy and legacy of the War on Terror

---

Final Takeaways

• The Trump administration’s attempt to “fix” immigration with an outlandish H1B fee is less about serious reform and more about signaling, pleasing political constituencies, and, perhaps, creating future leverage.
• The Venezuela segment lays bare the degree to which US foreign policy in the Americas is shaped by hardline exile communities and domestic political incentives, rather than drug interdiction or genuine security priorities.
• The UN segment is a stunning encapsulation of how quickly “enemies” can become “friends” if their interests align with those in power—a point driven home with bitter, personal reflection and a sense of moral whiplash by the hosts.

If you missed this episode, you got a sharp, deeply skeptical, and at times darkly comic look at the hidden calculations driving US labor, immigration, and foreign policy—and how elite consensus and PR can abruptly invert even the most foundational narratives.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

We need Your help to build the future of independent news media. And we hope to see [e-mail] turning now to H1B. It's been a hot topic on the Internet and with the Trump administration now for some time. Before we even get into it, some of you may not even know what an H1B visa is. It's kind of an interesting setup here, Ryan. And for many critics, it's what's wrong with the US Immigration system. For the pro business folks, they say it's what's great about the US Immigration system, but the effects of effective way it's designed, and please correct me if you think I'm not contextualizing it properly, is that companies will have jobs which require a certain set of skills. The precursor for being able to get an H1B visa for your worker is that no American can do this job. So I need somebody with a specific set of skills. It's not like the O1 visa, which is like a talent visa, but I need somebody to be able to come here, so called best and the brightest people who are better educated, let's say they're in general population, to be able to come in and take this job, it's a win win. They get a fast track to a green card. They get a job. While they're here, though, there are certain things like, oh, you can't leave the job. You actually don't have a lot of.

[D]

Rights because they control the visa.

[A]

Because they control your visa. Right. So there's some downsides there for the employee. They're willing to take a lower wage, largely. Why? Because it's a very easy way to get residency in America. And if you're still here for a certain amount of time, you get here on H1B visa and then you get to the green card and then you can go and do whatever you want. So the benefit that the companies say is the H1B visa allows the best and the brightest of the whole world to come to America and to do all these great jobs to make our country better, to make our economy better. And it's a win win for everybody. The critics of that, both left and right, by the way, Bernie Sanders in the hard right would say, well, it actually is exploitative because of what I just laid out. The company controls your wage. But second, you know, baked into the contract not only of your lack of competition by being able to go somewhere else, which obviously is going to reflect in the wage, but part of the wage that you accept in potentially less wage is, let's say you take $15,000 less than an American, well, it's worth it because you're on fast track to a green card. Right. And so the argument is that it crowds out American workers, people who are native born American citizens, or just American citizens in general who have labor rights. Right. They have the ability to contest a non compete, they can leave whenever they.

[D]

Want, they can accept harassment.

[A]

Right, exactly. You can tell on your butt. Right? So that's kind of like the left, right, kind of consensus from Bernie Sanders and let's say that more Trump wing of the GOP on here. The argument from the Silicon Valley guys is this is the bread and butter of the US Technology industry. Regardless, it became a massive cultural war issue over the last nine months. And the Trump administration has really had to try to split the difference because they both want to be very pro big business, but they don't want to be seen as open borders or pro businesses, mass immigration or exploitative types of immigration. So they settled upon this new strategy where they're gonna try and charge H1B visa holders a one time $100,000 application fee. So the theory behind it is that if somebody is so worth it to bring in that you're gonna have company's gonna have to pay for it. And that means that by raising the cost, that it would make it so that any American worker would now be, of course, you know, as competitive, let's say, over the long term with that person and any competitive advantage that a foreign worker might be able to bring to the table. Conceptually, I think that's great, I think it's a good idea. However, let's just say that the way this was rolled out was very confusing. And so I will play it out for all of you that Trump announced $100,000 fee. He actually announced it by Howard Lutnick as well, that it would be a rolling $100,000 fee, that it would apply retroactively to a bunch of people that nobody would be allowed to re enter the country if they hadn't paid their $100,000 fee, potentially applying to the hundreds of thousands of people or whoever who are already here on an H1B visa. And it was just the general chaos you can accept from this administration. So here was a rollout.

[E]

One of the most abused visa systems.

[A]

In our current immigration system has been.

[C]

The H1B nonimmigrant visa program.

[D]

This is supposed to allow highly skilled.

[A]

Laborers who work in fields that Americans don't work in to come into the.

[D]

United States of America.

[A]

What this proclamation will do is raise.

[D]

The fee that companies Pay to sponsor H1B applicants to $100,000.

[A]

This will ensure that the people they're bringing in are actually very highly skilled and that they're not replaceable by American workers. So it will protect American workers, but ensure that companies have a pathway to hire truly extraordinary people and bring them.

[D]

To the United States.

[A]

We need workers, we need workers, we need great workers.

[D]

And this pretty much ensures that that's what's going to happen. I think, Sean, you agree with that. Well, they're $100,000 per year. So the whole idea is no more will these big tech companies or other.

[A]

Big companies train foreign workers $100,000 per year. I don't know a single employer who would pay. That basically end the H1B visa system, which I would be actually okay with. But that's not what ended up happening because immediately big business freaked out and called the Trump White House, who immediately issued this clarification. Let's put this up here on the screen from press secretary Caroline Levitt. To be clear, this is not an annual fee. It's a one time fee that applies only to the petition. Do you remember what Howard Lutnick just said? He said per year. That's what annual means. Just I want to be clear on my terms, annual means for a year. Okay? Second, those who already hold H1B visas and are currently outside of the country right now will not be charged $100,000 to reenter the way that it was originally announced they would have been. H1B visa holders can leave and re enter the country to the same extent as they normally would. Whatever ability they have to do that, that is not impacted by yesterday's Proclamation 3. This applies only to new visas, not renewals and not current visa holders. It will first apply in the next upcoming lottery cycle. So currently there are, according to ChatGPT, which is probably OpenAI is probably a big H1B recipient. So, yeah, just laying it out There, there are 730,000 people currently in the United States who hold an H1B visa, plus an additional $550,000 dependents, spouses and children, for a rough total of 1.28 to 1.3 million residents in the United States with H1B status. The vast majority of these people work in the technology industry. This is like the bread and butter really of the way that they have, that they've, you know, crafted their business.

[D]

And does it say how many in health care?

[A]

Oh, I'll, I think while you talk, I will look that up.

[D]

Yeah. So I think your sketching out of the H1B program is pretty accurate. The problem here, I think, is the remedy here. I think it is absolutely fair to say and it is correct that H1B visa holders are exploited because of the leverage that their employers have over them and that it allows companies then to downward pressure wages against American workers. That has to be balanced. So this needs to be reformed. The reform I would suggest is that the H1B visa would be held by the worker himself or herself.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's like the O1 visa, like the talent visa.

[D]

Right. And yes, yes, it's called this. Outstanding is what people call it. If you get an O1 visa, then you can go work anywhere. And that's how it should be. Because then those workers can organize with other American workers. If they don't like the job that they're in, they can go try to get a higher salary at another job that pushes up wages for everybody. Then the counterargument would be, well, no, screw them. We have enough American workers to do everything. What that does not understand is that we are a. And this is where I kind of separate from some left wing nationalist types like we are in a global economy. The thing, and I see this from two perspectives. One, as an American. Two, as just a person in the world.

[A]

Sure.

[D]

As just a person in the world.

[A]

Global citizen.

[D]

Global citizen. It's probably better that the US commits this suicide and stops being this magnet for brains around the world, because we do undermine a lot of other countries by pulling.

[A]

Oh, you're talking about the brain drain theory. The brain drain, yeah, yeah.

[D]

By pulling in the best doctors from Pakistan, the best engineers from India, the best engineers and software talent from China, and scientists in a lot of different programs. 100% of the PhDs are foreign born.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Overall, something like 50% of PhDs are foreign born. They then create companies here in the United States, which gives us our competitive advantage.

[A]

This is the genius the rest of the world, because this is where I differ with them. This is where the big tech guys are like, well, they come here and they form companies. I'm like, yeah, doing what? Doing NFTs. I'm like, wow, great. Thank you for increasing American GDP. All right, so you become filthy rich, you can buy a house in Santa Monica.

[D]

All right, well, a lot of them work in hospitals in Kentucky.

[A]

No, you're not wrong. Listen. And that's the reality of the balance. And that's why. So I have the breakdown here. In recent years, 65% of approved H1Bs are for computer related occupation. A large majority are in software engineering, systems analysis, programming. After that, the industry, sector by sector kind of breaks down. But healthcare, medicine and health is like 4 to 5%. The reason why that's important is that we have the healthcare exception where they immediately started putting exclusions where the White House says that doctors may win a reprieve from the H1B visa fee. They're like, well, if you're a doc, you know, we can make things work a little bit here. The issue also is that this is very rife for corruption because the executive order says that the fees can be waived if the Secretary of Homeland Security determines that the hiring of workers on an individual basis is, quote, in the national interest, totally nebulous. Which means if you're Google or OpenAI or Mark Zuckerberg or any of these other people and you're like, listen, we're in the global race on China. We got to have these H1Bs and it would just kill our trillion dollar bottom line to pay a measly $100,000, which we probably give in stock options to each one of our staff like every other day. But that would just murder our bottom line if we were forced to do that. And God forbid that we were to have to hire somebody who could leave if they wanted to. So it's in the national interest. And they would be like, oh, of course it's in the national interest. Right, right. And so that's how you could very easily see this become like a corporate bonanza, which it already is.

[D]

That' or what will immediately develop. And what is, I guarantee you, is already developing. If you have connections with dhs, you set up a lobbying slash consulting shop.

[A]

And you just pump them.

[D]

You pay me and I will bribe or pay and do my whole swamp thing with dhs and I will like, you need a waiver.

[A]

Yeah, I got you, I got you.

[D]

I got your waiver. And it also sets up more of this, what Trump loves, which is unilateral leverage over the economy and over specific companies. Like, I want you to say good things about me. I want you to fire this reporter. I want you to buy my Bitcoin. And if you don't, then you're paying the full freight on these.

[A]

Yeah, it's undeniable. I also think there is a big systems question here and I know a lot of Indian H1B visas will be mad at me. But you know, newsflash, I'm not actually from India. You know, you are. And that's, you know, we have different. We have different interests, the two of us. The thing is, is that at a system wide level, starting with H1B ignores how we got here. So like what happened? STEM education. All right, so why is there a. Because the argument is, well, there's not enough people graduate from stem. Why is that? You just said, well, we have a college debt crisis. We have a lack of emphasis in math, science and all. There's a whole argument about how we got there and magnet schools versus public education, whatever. But the point is, is that we are where we are where we have a talent shortage, according to the market, if you will. Maybe that's true or not, but as you just noted, the PhD programs and all that are overrun by foreigners. Now, there's a lot of questions as to how we got there. A lot of it is that they play full freight. You can jack up education costs. You can also, you know, the whole visa system is easily gamed by this. There's a lot of financial benefits to a university which also allows them to continue to massively raise prices. Now, in some cases, don't get me wrong, PhDs and others, the argument they give me is, what are you talking about, you idiot? We don't pay them or they don't pay us. We pay them because they come and they tutor and work as a graduate assistant or whatever. I think it's multifaceted is all I'm saying. I do think there's a major financial component to foreign PhD and graduate students because it's not always working that way. So that's part of the issue is, number one, we have a supply kind of problem. Number two is about this entire scheme of brain drain, like you said. And I think that was true in a bipolar world and in a unipolar world, as in when it was US versus Soviet Union and US versus the rest of the world, where they go. It's not really true anymore in a global, in a multipolar world. And so look, undeniable. A ton of Indians still want to come to America. Look at the number of visa applications. But also it's kind of a selection bias because India's a billion people, 1.4 billion people. So 0.1% of a billion is still a shitload of people, right? Even if they all.

[D]

There's a lot of people wanted to come over.

[A]

But here's the thing, guys. The last time I went to India, a lot of these people, they don't want to come here anymore. All right? Now a lot do. So don't get me wrong, but But a lot of them are like, yeah, you know, Silicon Valley bank or whatever's got an office here. I'm living a pretty Good Life on $100,000 a year. If I go to San Diego or San, you know, whatever, Santa Monica or. I'm trying to think of some northern cali, San Jose, 100,000. I'm living in a shack for $100,000 a year. Why would I do that? Right? You know, we have the Internet. Sometimes I have to work nights. Yeah, it sucks, but whatever. That's part of living in a global economy. A lot of the new Indian graduates and kind of like the. My parents of today. I don't know if they would come here. Quality of life is not bad. They have widespread 5G Internet access. They're a rising nation with their own hopes and dreams. It's not like the communist problems of the 1970s and stagflation. And I'm just saying. All right, so for them, they're like, look, we have this new nation, we have this new national project. And I'm just laying out India, which is a huge part of the H1B process. Again, still, a lot of them still want to come here. I don't want to diminish that, But I don't think if you just stop the average Indian, highly educated Indian on the street today, all of them, maybe in the 1970s, all of them would have said, I want to come to the West. Now maybe it's 50. 50, but, you know, that's a lot. Then China is another part of the story. First of all, the Chinese government doesn't want these people to leave anymore. They're like, you're not going.

[D]

It's like 10 to 15%, right?

[A]

It's like 10 to 15%. But my point is just that the Chinese government Now, it's not 1990s China, right? It's 2020. They got jobs, right? They have plenty of jobs. And in fact, you're going to live a great quality of life. We'll give you the best car, you're going to get a great salary. You know, you have all the air. Quality of life. Yeah. You know, you can't say anything about Tiananmen Square or whatever, but who cares, right? We're living a good life here.

[D]

Here, you just can't say anything about Charlie Carr.

[A]

There you go. Okay, but the point is just that if you look at it in all of these different countries, Brazil, I'm trying to think, you know, I wouldn't put Russia on the list, considering what's happening Here, but South Korea, Japan, Nigeria, Singapore, Nigeria is a bit different. I still think a lot of them, last time I checked the immigration stats and all that, were a little bit different. But you have rising economies, and in a more multipolar world, the attractiveness of coming to the. It's not the dream that it once was, is really the way I would put it. And in fact, I mean, especially in Asia, the infrastructure there is 10 times better than it is over here. So you're kind of like, really, like, I want to give up quality of life for this? I mean, yeah, you make a lot of money on paper, but you kind of live like shit, you know, compared to anybody who's in Singapore, for example. I just think that that part of the brain drain conversation also has to be acknowledged here. And look, it's tough because, you know, entering into multipolarity, what you really want is competitiveness in and of itself, but you also want, like a strong nation. And I think part of the H1B system as it is is kind of the worst of 1990s theories of most favored nation status. And, you know, oh, it's just all about gdp, gdp, gdp. And I think it's great for business, it's great for stocks. I don't think it's all that great for workers. I definitely don't think it's good for Americans. I broadly think it's largely exploitive.

[D]

Yeah, no, that's why I think it changes everything if you let the worker, you let the worker have the visa, let the worker actually have freedom when they're here. But despite all, despite how well things are going in a lot of these other countries, we still do have, despite the Trump administration's best efforts, a university system that is the envy of the world. And if you are one of the best and brightest undergrad high school students around the world, like, for a lot of those people, if they can get into an American college, they want to do it. And then as much as I trash this country, a lot of people love it. There's a lot of cool things about it. And people get here and they're like, this is actually like, yeah, listen, it has a lot of pluses. This is a pretty nice place to live.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

And it is just undeniable that if you are a country where the smart people from around the world want to move to and make a home here overall, whether, you know, some of them are going to do stupid NFT stuff and rip off dumb Americans, overall, they're going to make a more competitive and richer country.

[A]

That's still the GDP argument. That's where I fall on it is that we have shown that it could be true. Let's say in the 1950s, right, where you bring the best and the brightest of Germany and use it to build great industry but you also have some red distributive and built a nice balance of Omaha making combines to build some combines and some nice rockets. Who cares where the research came from. Took us to the moon, Right? Let's just not talk about that little part there. But my point is just that it can be done in a better structured economy. I don't see the evidence for that today. I mean we just covered that story about bottom tier workers. $100,000 or less basically spending the top 10% are spending 50% of all consumer spending. And we can have that story on the very same day that I was just looking yesterday. Open. This is, this is the story of the US stock market. Nvidia announced a $100 billion investment into OpenAI. Nvidia stock then went up by 150 billion. So what's going on? It's like circular money, you know, it's like.

[D]

Yes, that goes to my other argument that the whole world would be better off if we just collapse. This whole thing is just utterly ridiculous. And you're thinking reminded me, have you heard that poem? It's something like Wernher von Braun, he sends the rockets up, he doesn't know where they come down.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Definitely not in London. That's right.

[D]

Who's to say?

[A]

Yeah, but my point about the Nvidia, the gdp, the whole competitiveness thing, I really did used to believe that. And of course it is still true to a certain extent. But we can't pretend that in a world where 50% of consumer spending is in the top 10% that any of this S&P 500 nonsense matters to the 90% of the consuming public. Right. It's about the basic electricity costs and all that. And for them I'm not so sure I see the H1B benefit. And so it should be reformed, but.

[D]

Definitely not in a champion fashion. Yeah, but just because our political system can't figure out how to get our oligarchs in control doesn't mean that we don't need smart people in this country.

[A]

Totally, I agree. I'm not saying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I do. This gets to my point though is that is it really the best and the brightest? The O1 visa exists for that purpose. Sometimes it is just like entry level software engineer, which look, I'm not diminishing that it's a very difficult job.

[D]

And there've been a ton of Silicon Valley layoffs.

[A]

Exactly.

[D]

Which cuts. Again, cuts the other way. It's like, wait a minute, why do you need all these H1Bs?

[A]

Yeah. That recently happened at Microsoft.

[D]

Companies are firing all of these.

[A]

Did you see that? At Microsoft they recently fired, fired thousands of workers. And then in their lottery then they're like applying for sales. So you're like, okay, get out of here. This is about stocks, all right? And you're $2 trillion market cap or something like that. So I think we can all kind of figure out what's happening.

[B]

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[A]

Hello. We got one play.

[C]

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[A]

Dude, get out of our huddle.

[C]

Well, at holmes.com, we leave it all on the field to get you detailed information on local schools.

[D]

Off the field.

[C]

Off the field.

[A]

Copy.

[C]

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[A]

Let's get to Venezuela. Ryan. This is a Ryan special. Drop some knowledge on us what's happening.

[D]

Okay. This situation is deadly serious and could be heading towards a regime change effort in Venezuela. Trump, at the same time, is ratcheting up the tensions and putting everything on red alert, and also at the same time, making a giant mockery of it. He went to Truth Social media and said, top secret. Let's roll this VO here. Top secret. We caught the Venezuelan militia in training, a very serious threat. He posted that on Truth Social, showing this. And what this is, is Nicolas Maduro in the wake of having a $50 million bounty put on his head in the wake of at least three ships being blown out of the water in the Caribbean by the United States and all of the passengers burned alive. And in the wake of Israel's assassination campaign around the world, Maduro has been on heightened alert and has organized tens of thousands of Venezuelans into militias and is also preparing the Venezuelan military for a potential. For a potential invasion. Although it seems to me what could be more likely is just what they clinically call a decapitation strike.

[A]

Yeah, destabilization strike.

[D]

I worry that Trump has been hanging out in the Oval Office watching Netanyahu assassinate whoever he wants in Yemen or Lebanon or Iran or in Syria. And it's like, wait a minute, you can just do that? You can just kill civilian leaders that you don't like, and then by kind of breaking the seal of just killing civilian people in the Caribbean, he calls them drug traffickers. But there's no congressional authorization to kill drug traffickers in the Caribbean. There's no international law that would say that. If you think that somebody has cocaine on a boat, you can send a drone over top of it and. And burn them alive. That's just not a thing. But he's doing it. So Trump has done that to at least three ships. Yesterday, he said again that he had done it, but reporters are not clear whether he was referring to the same one that he announced previously or whether this is a fourth one. But we can put up E2 on the screen here. This is Trump's video that another. Another of the videos that they released. There are. There is Trump burning people alive in the. In the Caribbean, claiming to have, you know, discovered, you know, that they were trafficking drugs. It's ironic that you would have, you know, Special Forces involved in this, given as the. As the new book, the Fort Bragg Cartel shows us, nobody is more involved in drug trafficking than Special Forces operators. So.

[A]

Well, at least according to those select group.

[D]

Yeah, we got. We got a lot of. Yes. Turns out the US Military and intelligence agencies have a lot of intel on which ships are moving around with product.

[A]

I won't put them all down there. Some, I assume, are good. I'm joking. All right. I think a lot are great People. People. But obviously Seth's book was pretty extraordinary. We did see this. I was actually curious for your take on this from the Dominican Republic, can we put E3 up here on the screen? They say they recovered cocaine from the boat that was struck. It was the first time it had carried out a joint operation, they said, against narco terrorism in the Caribbean with the United States. What are our relations with the Dominican Republic? Is this.

[D]

They're a client.

[A]

Okay, so are they going along with this? Is this something they wanted to do? You know, like, in terms of US Power projection in the Caribbean, Is this something that they welcome? Like, are they anti Venezuela? That's what made me curious about this announcement because obviously they're backing it up big time because, yeah, it was full of drugs. There's 1,000 kilos or whatever that was on the boat.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, Dominican Republic doesn't have any agency when it comes to the United States. We tell them which way is up and which way is down. And also if they push back remotely, then we're going to look at what involvement various Dominican Republic officials have in the drug trade. The drug trade penetrates every level of government in every government, including our government. And so it would not be surprising to me at all if we had actually reliable intelligence about which boats have cocaine on them and which boats don't. We've got. We've got people all. We've got people everywhere, all over the place here.

[A]

The question I think is about, is this, any of this about drugs? And that's kind of what I was getting at with the Dominican Republic, you know, and kind of backing up and legitimizing this operation. Like how. What are their relations with Maduro? Would they want to. Like, who wants regime change in Venezuela other than the neocons in Miami?

[D]

Right. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, that's all you need because the lead neocon in Miami happens to be the Secretary of State. And so if we can actually for a second jump, jump to E5, what really is going on here? This is according to senior level people that I've spoken to. So this is. The Washington Post had its big story saying DEA faced pushback at White House Pentagon after urging Mexico strikes so early on in the Trump administration, the acting DEA Head urged the Trump administration to carry out Trump's promise to bomb, basically to assassinate cartel leaders and to bomb production facilities in Mexico. We promised we're gonna do it. Let's go ahead and do it. He got pushback because A, Scheinbaum is like, don't do this. Do not bomb Mexico, and B, a lot of the lawyers in the early days were like, you absolutely cannot do this, and C, the chance that you're gonna kill Americans is pretty high if you do this. And so they backed off of this. But Trump. And I think one of the few things that Trump has genuine sentiments about is his hostility to drug use. Like, just. He personally finds it messy. His brother had an addiction issue. It's always something he has hated. You can just see it in him.

[A]

It's one of the things I love most about him.

[D]

There you go. And so Rubio, and this is my understanding of what went on in Toronto, Rubio very effectively picked that up. Rubio has been boxed out of Ukraine, boxed out of the Middle East. His real thing that he wants to do is go after Cuba, go after Nicaragua, go after Venezuela. This is the fever dream of the South Florida elite. Trump doesn't really want to do that. I mean, even though he had basically did that in his first term, it's not his thing. What are we getting involved in all of this stuff here? You don't like Cuba, you don't like Venezuela. That's not our problem. I think he instinctually is more in the Rick Grenell camp, which is like, look, Citgo wants to sell us oil, they got oil.

[A]

Who cares?

[D]

Let's figure it out. You did eight coups. It's not working. Let's. Let's just do this. Let's do business. Yeah. So what Rubio cleverly did is he shoehorned his agenda of regime change into Trump's agenda of blowing up cartel guys by saying, look, Venezuela is actually. He's not a communist. Well, yeah, he is a communist. He's terrible for that. But what he really is is a narco terrorist. And so then they put this $50 million bounty out. They went out and they said, he runs Trende Aragua, which is not actually, like, it's not primarily a drug trafficking gang.

[A]

We had one David Rojas on to talk about that. I mean, I've said this from the day one.

[D]

So they fixed all the intelligence to make it.

[A]

It's like, guys, 99% of fentanyl is Mexico and China.

[D]

From China.

[A]

99%. 99% of it comes from Mexico and China, if you want to bomb somebody, that's where you would bomb. We're not going to do that because of NAFTA and because of the US Economy. It's literally. It would shut down overnight. Right. And in my opinion, you correct me if I'm wrong, it would probably cause, like, mass populist backlash inside of Mexico and collapse relations with the Shine bond government, which, broadly, are actually not bad right now, which is really all Trump cares about. Right. So there's that. And then. Yeah, go ahead.

[D]

No, here's the other annoying thing about this. Theo Vaughan, when he had J.D. vance on, had one of the funniest lines.

[A]

What did he say?

[D]

He was like, are you really a country if you can't even get decent cocaine anymore? He's like. He's like, you know, he's sober now.

[A]

He should be happy. Wall Street Journal now reports that cocaine is more plentiful than ever.

[D]

All right, so the problem is, and this was what Theo Vaughn was complaining about, and he's sober now, so not complaining for himself, but, you know, for a friend.

[A]

Right.

[D]

For friends, that there's such a high risk of there being fentanyl laced into your cocaine that you might die for just a little bump on a Saturday night.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

And his point is, like, what kind of country is that? That's not a real country. J.D. you need to fix this.

[A]

You need to fix the fentanyl problem so that people can get high.

[D]

The coke that is least likely to have fentanyl in it is the stuff that's coming straight from the jungle on the boats.

[A]

Oh, from Venezuela. Okay, I know where you're going.

[D]

So what is Trump doing? Taking the cleanest coke?

[A]

Yeah. It's like clean coal. They take it out, blowing it up, clean it.

[D]

And so what are we going to be left with? This dirty Mexican stuff that's intermingled with fentanyl, which is only going to lead to more people dying.

[A]

You're killing me. Right? You're killing me.

[D]

I don't know. That's so funny. Kind of country.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's a better country where people do less cocaine. But that's the problem. People are doing more cocaine, apparently, than ever.

[D]

So people are tired, man.

[A]

Whatever. That's a whole other thing. People. Oh, I use it for productivity.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Really? Productivity. To drink more. Okay, so let's stick, though, with the regime change, because I think this is very important, what you're saying. The stats bear out. 99% of fentanyl comes from Mexico. 93%, according to DEA's most recent figures, cocaine comes from Colombia, transits through Mexico to the United States. 7% comes through all different routes, including these boats. For some reason, Venezuela is now at the top of that list. But what's scary to me is this military posture. E4, please. Let's put this up here on the screen. New York Times writes U.S. military buildup in Caribbean signals broader campaign against Venezuela. Trump officials say the mission aims to disrupt the drug trade. But military officials and analysts say the real goal might be driving Venezuela's president from power. I don't think it's a might be when you put a $50 million bounty on a guy's head.

[D]

Yeah, it might be.

[A]

It's not might be. The only question is how far it goes.

[D]

And here's. Right, exactly. But here's the thing. I've wondered, like, okay, the Chavistas, whether it's Hugo Chavez or Maduro, have been in power going on 27 years.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Why is that? Why do we care?

[A]

I'm with you. I don't care at all. Yeah, yeah. You people do whatever you want to do. As long as you don't send a boatload of migrants over here, I don't give a shit what you do. All right? I mean, it's one of those things.

[D]

And the sanctions, who cares? The sanctions are what are sending the boatload of migrants. Because that's the other deal that is on the table. Lift sanctions, US gets oil, Venezuela takes a bunch of migrants back. Like that deal is.

[A]

Well, okay, let's answer the question honestly. Why do we care? Because a bunch of rich Venezuelan ex patriots who are living in Miami, they're butthurt, voting for. Yeah. They're mad, which. I get it. I get it. Yeah. I mean, I would be mad, too.

[D]

That's my family.

[A]

Yeah. If my family was kicked out or whatever, I totally understand. I'm not diminishing your experience, but, you know, it would be a little bit the equivalent of like, our. My family coming over here and then voting solely on the issue of, like, being, I don't know, anti political party.

[D]

Congress party or whatever. Yeah.

[A]

Beating up the Congress Party in India. Be like, who. Who cares about.

[D]

That's between y'. All.

[A]

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, exactly. It's like you guys figure that out. All right? You elect whoever you want to elect and, you know, we'll meet with whoever it is. I saw Juan actually sent me this great tweet from some Venezuelan expatriate who was just after the first bombing. It was like, I voted for this. My abuelita voted for this.

[D]

And my abuelita voted for this.

[A]

So good.

[D]

And it's true. They did. Yeah.

[A]

No, yeah they did. You're right. You're absolutely right. They unironically did vote for this. So you know who amongst us should not be beholden to South Florida abuelitas so they can get their villas in Caracas back. Yeah, I mean, it's just a national security priority for the United States. States of America.

[B]

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[D]

There was an event at the United nations yesterday that almost defies description. Let's roll. You have to see this to believe it. See if you can figure out who these Gentlemen are rolling out on stage together.

[E]

Salaam alaikum, Sayyid Reis, Ahen Moussalin and Sharaf Nassaidi. As you know, Mr. President, I spent over 37 years in the US army and I was a soldier, not a diplomat. So I hope you'll forgive me if I speak with the directness of the old soldier that I am. As I get the first question out of the way because the fact is that we were on different sides when I was commanding the surge in Iraq, you were of course detained by US forces for some five years, including again when I was the four star there. And here you are now as the President of Syria, which your forces liberated from the murderous Bashar Al Assad regime to participate in your first UN General assembly as the President of your country. Earlier this year, you met the President of the United States, among many other world leaders. Please help us understand how you got from Al Qaeda in Iraq 20 years ago to where you are today. Syria's head of state on stage in New York City.

[A]

Welcome you.

[D]

At a time we were.

[A]

In the combat and then we now move to the discourse. We moved from war to discourse. Yes, sir. Someone who went through war is one who knows most the importance of peace. Perhaps there were some mistakes. Sometimes in a person's journey, there are some mistakes, but what's important is to focus on defending people from the threats that they face, especially from the instability that could take place in any region.

[D]

So, so yeah, that.

[A]

Ahmed Al Shara, just imagine you are an American soldier and you, sir, or service member, and you served in Iraq in the height of the surge when a couple hundred Americans were getting killed or wounded every month under David Petraeus to hunt down, to kill Al Qaeda and Iraq. And for that commander and then the former CIA director to be sitting across, smiley and googly eyed at a literal terrorist marked by the US Government, complicit in God knows how many horrific crimes, attacks on our soldiers, all because, let's be honest, because the guy is willing to play ball with who? Ryan? Israel. And so because of that, oh yeah, it's such a great victory for the world that Bashar Al Assad is gone. Really bring him back. If this is the alternative, like what are we doing doing here? You know, and it's, I got it, for me, it's especially black pilling. My whole initial career was spent on these issues. Isis, al Qaeda. I was a true believer. You know, I, I didn't want to believe the conspiracy theory about, or what.

[D]

I thought was that the US Is.

[A]

Funding that the US Was funding. I said, no, that's ridiculous. I know these people they're fighting, you know, they really believe in, you know, in a better democracy for Syria and for all. No, we turned it into a playground for the entire world. We facilitated along by not just us, Russians, Qataris, Saudis, everybody Turks. Everybody got in on the action. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed. Millions were displaced. All for it to end in the result of thousands of Americans died, thousands to prevent Al Qaeda and also to respond to the 911 attacks, only to have the CIA director glaze, an Al Qaeda terrorist operative in New York City. It's too much for me. But that's what makes me so cynical about the state of the world is like actually that shit. Apparently that was the point the whole time is to. We gotta get rid of Assad. He's a murderous dictator, so we've gotta replace him with a new murderous one because he's good with Israel. Oh, great. Okay, great. Awesome. Good for the people of Syria. I guess if you're a Christian, good luck to you. You know, you might just get blown up in a church or something like that.

[D]

There were a couple other psychedelic moments that we can roll through before we finish. Put F2 up here.

[E]

How are you holding up under all this pressure? Are you getting time to do some thinking? Are you getting enough sleep at night? Again, I've been there and it is so very, very hard. And your many fans, and I am one of them, we do have worries. We're nationalists, certainly, yes, a degree of political Islam. But frankly, what you have done since toppling the Bashar al Assad regime has validated what it is that I assessed it. And I was criticized, by the way, quite considerably. I just want to tell you, really, on behalf of all the people who are here, that this conversation has truly filled me with enormous hope. It has been very, very heartening and illuminating. Your vision is powerful and clear. Your demeanor itself is very impressive as well. And so, again, on behalf of all here and all those that are watching virtually and so forth, we thank you for sharing your vision today. We wish you strength and wisdom in the difficult work ahead. We obviously hope for your success inshallah. Because at the end of the day, your success is our success.

[D]

Your success is our success.

[A]

I don't even have words for this again. And he's like, we've. He's comparing his experience as an American soldier to the Al Qaeda terrorists who he was trying to kill 20 years ago.

[D]

@ other points in that he said, can you talk a little bit about how you obtained your weapons.

[A]

Wait a minute.

[D]

You know, how he got the weapons. What are you talking about?

[A]

You sold it to him. All right?

[D]

And he's like, what about leadership training?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

He was literally asking what kind of leadership training Al Qaeda was doing because of how. And hey, look, credit where it's due.

[A]

All the critics, all the critics who were screaming into the void on the Internet, they were all right, every single one of them, all right? About al Qaeda, about the CIA, including, by the way, the former, the current dni, who at one point, you know, had a very different take on this. She was 100% correct. This entire. I can't even believe my eyes in front of us. And I just want to underscore, again, none of this has anything to do with American interests because nobody ever particularly cared about Bashar al Assad to the extent that it was a problem. It was about the migrant crisis, which, you know, if that was it, then you would want a quick war.

[D]

And that came from the civil war, Right, Exactly.

[A]

Came from the civil war. You would want the war to end. Israel had to turn it into a Russian thing. Right, exactly. Israel is the only people who had a problem with Bashar al Assad. And now, since then, what's been happening? Oh, well, you know, there's been a bunch of strikes in Israel. And in fact, even though this guy has been playing ball with Israel, that they still struck the presidential palace. Time sleeping well. Not so well, because Israel, just so you know, we will kill you. You have to play ball with us completely. Let's go and put F4 up there on the screen. Just a couple of days ago, he said that a border deal with Israel could come within days. That deal, by the way, would basically expand Greater Israel even further into Syria, beyond the borders even that they used to fight with Assad about. He was, to be fair, asked about it by Petraeus, he's like, we're not there yet. But obviously they're keeping communication lines open. There were specifically also calls for him to join the Abraham Accord. So that's what our grand experiment in Syria, which, again, you know, if you're me, I've covered this from almost since day one of the Civil War. So to be here 14 years later, or no, 11 years later, and to see this, never in my wildest dreams.

[D]

And what he kept asking for in the Petraeus interview and we put up F3 on the screen here, is for the US to, and the world to complete the lifting of sanctions, which, frankly, they should like what's the point? You got, you know, got your guy.

[A]

It doesn't matter anymore. I mean, the damage is all done, right? So at this point, like. Yeah, I guess. Although, I mean, if we're gonna maintain any. It's just like, well, what is this all about then? We spent 25 years, 24 years fighting the war on terror for this to be the end.

[B]

Like, it just.

[A]

It's sick.

[D]

It's. It's really asking the US Public to just swallow an enormous amount.

[A]

Yeah, but how many people are gonna know about this? 99%.

[D]

Pun.

[A]

99.9%.

[D]

Part of it is.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, if you're an American soldier, though, I hope you pay attention. I really do. You were abused. Disgustingly. Some people, very courageous people. Not me. I wish I had said it at the time. They were 100% right. They really were.

[D]

Meanwhile, I don't know if you saw this contemporary isis, which those same critics now say is a basically propped up by Israel and the United States. Just the other day, as all these European capitals were, are now recognizing Palestinian statehood, ISIS put out a statement saying that they wanted people to attack Europe. This is interesting timing. Just as Europe is recognizing. It's like, guys, if you're trying to make it look like you are a proxy of Israel, you couldn't pick a better time to threaten European capitals with terrorist attacks just as they're recognizing a Palestinian state. You know, they said it's like to do it in solidarity with whatever like it is. Black pill is good is a good phrase for it because we are. We remember 9 11. The ISIS beheadings and grotesque displays of violence are seared into our memories.

[A]

If you're a zoomer, you don't even understand what that moment was. I'm not even talking about 9 11. I'm talking about. What was it?

[D]

James Foley.

[A]

Foley and Steven somebody.

[D]

Stephen.

[A]

That's what it is. I mean, we watch their deaths, like, right? It's equivalent to the Kirk thing. We all experience that collectively on the original, on the early Internet. Or you remember the Jordanian pilot being burned alive in the cage.

[D]

They burned a guy alive in a cage.

[A]

In a cage. Like we saw.

[D]

They loaned up 20 Egyptians.

[A]

Right. Remember the fall of Mosul and executed them. Yeah. And then all those Yazidi women who were raped and held as sex slaves, like to live through that. And then the righteous indignation of the American people of somebody would be like, how could we let this happen? We have to go back. We have to do something about this. And the fact is is that all of the naysayers who were like, this is all a deep state cover to go after Assad and to prop up Al Qaeda. They were 100% correct. Because look at the end state of where it all came about.

[D]

Yeah. And the U.S. was doing this ever since World War II. We were funding these death squads throughout Central and South America, in Indonesia, funding the worst butchers around the world. And so it makes sense that we would continue funding butchers.

[A]

Yeah. But during the Cold War, it was under the guise of stopping communism, which is more honest. But that's more honest. This was about these monsters playing games.

[D]

In the Middle East.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. And great. I'm happy that Israel's security and borders can expand and that we spent hundreds of billions of dollars and wasted American lives or whatever, so.

[D]

And lift the sanctions. And I'm rooting for Shara now. I'm rooting for him.

[A]

I just want stability. These people deserve peace at this point. But I mean, unfortunately, and Israel probably.

[D]

Not bombing them, for the love of.

[A]

God, they're going to keep bombing them. Yeah. But by the way, the Christian population in there, you know, it's, it's gonna be dark. I feel for them. I really do. All right, thank you, Ryan. That was a great show. I enjoyed it.

[D]

I'll be at the UN tomorrow, so.

[A]

Oh, you will?

[D]

Yeah, Chris will be here for me.

[A]

So Chris will be in for Ryan tomorrow. I will be out for the rest of the week, but Ryan will be in for me on Thursday. I know you guys have some interesting guests and all of that lined up. We will see you all later. Oh, and stay tuned for my Tucker Carlson interview for our premium subscribers.

[B]

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[A]

Check out the new season of Reasonable Doubt, now streaming on Hulu. L A s most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder. Follow Emma Yahtzee, Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sakura, and guest stars Kash Doll and Lori Harvey as they fight their personal battles in the spotlight of the year's most sensational trial. In the pursuit of justice, every move counts. Reasonable Doubt, Season 3, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. For bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[E]

Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.

[D]

You do.

[E]

So ask yourself, can you or can't you? Can you load up a Ford F150 and build your dream with sweat and steel? Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?

[C]

Can you take a Bronco to where.

[E]

The map ends and adventure begins? Whether you think you can or think.

[A]

You can't, you're right.

[D]

Ready, set. Ford.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.