Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Date: September 26, 2025
Featured Hosts: Krystal Ball, Emily Jashinsky, Ryan Grim, Griffin Davis
Key Themes: The growing global backlash against Israeli policies; Big Tech and surveillance; AIPAC's sway in US politics; Political weaponization of prosecutions; Biden and Trump era authoritarianism; ICE and immigration issues.

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into a week marked by significant shifts in public and institutional reactions to Israeli policy, particularly surrounding mass walkouts during Netanyahu's UN appearance and Microsoft’s decision to block Israeli military use of its AI in Palestinian surveillance. The crew also discusses the fallout from politicians dodging the AIPAC money question, the partisan prosecution of former FBI director James Comey, and a mysterious generals’ summit convened by the Trump administration, rounding out with disturbing news about missing ICE detainees.

1. Microsoft Blocks Israeli Military Surveillance

Timestamps: 02:31 – 13:28

Key Discussion Points

• Backstory: Ryan Grim shares investigative reporting on Microsoft’s contracts with the Israeli Ministry of Defense, especially post-October 7th escalation. Leaked internal documents revealed Microsoft’s Azure cloud was deeply involved in surveillance and targeting against Palestinians.

  “We got a trove of internal documents from Microsoft that showed the amount of work...for the Israeli Ministry of Defense skyrocketed after October 7th.”
  — Ryan Grim, (03:14)

• Employee Activism: Grim credits fired Microsoft employees, who, despite risking their careers in a bleak job market, protested internally, which contributed to this policy shift.

  “It’s not cost-free. Like, you’re fired...Yet they’ve now been vindicated.”
  — Ryan Grim, (06:47)

• Implications: Microsoft is among the first major tech corporations to publicly “draw the line” on Israeli actions, following pressure from international outlets and human rights organizations.

• Shift in US Policy Context: Krystal notes the significance given Microsoft’s efforts to court the Trump administration—an indicator the political winds are shifting in Washington too.

  “Microsoft clearly made the calculation that...they can be on the wrong side of Israel and it will not bring them so much heat in the United States that it’s not worth doing.”
  — Ryan Grim, (12:25)

Notable Moment

• European Pressure: Discussion over Israel facing exclusion from Eurovision and European football leagues due to public outcry and populist actions like strikes by Italian dockworkers refusing to handle weapons shipments to Israel.

  “It kind of shows how little in some ways politicians matter because you’ve got Meloni, far right and lockstep supporter of Israel, yet...sending out help because their population demands it.”
  — Ryan Grim, (11:37)

2. AIPAC, Genocide, and “Will You Take the Money?”

Timestamps: 16:33 – 26:49

The “I’ve Had It” Clip

• Jennifer Rubin grills Jeff Duncan (GA gubernatorial candidate) on AIPAC money and moral clarity during an unusually tough podcast interview, highlighting discomfort many politicians now feel about associating with pro-Israel lobbying groups.

• Duncan stumbles repeatedly (“I have no idea. I haven’t even thought about it.”) as Rubin and the hosts stress the impossibility of ‘moral moderation’ on a question of genocide.

  “To see these kids starving and not know if you’re going to be beholden to the Israeli lobby...is not something that should take time to think about.”
  — Jennifer Rubin, (17:26)

Insights

• Base vs. Leadership Divide: Democratic leaders, chasing “swingy ex-Republicans,” vastly underestimate how galvanizing support for Palestinian rights has become among their own base.
• Pressure on Podcast Circuit: Emily observes the Democratic establishment’s misreading of rising, grassroots interviewers as “safe”—until they’re not.
• Comparisons with Tea Party Era: Krystal: “It does remind me a little bit of Tea Party years...[when] you’d have these candidates...and just get absolutely torched.”

3. Netanyahu Heckled and Escorted Out at the UN

Timestamps: 26:49 – 29:38

Highlights

• Mass Walkout: Netanyahu is booed; people are escorted out as he tries to defend Israel on the UN stage—an “unprecedented” show of international disgust.

  “Apparently he got booed as he came out...This is not normal.”
  — Ryan Grim, (26:54)

• Prop Comedy: Netanyahu brings props and brags about assassinations and the Iraq War, inviting scorn and mockery from the hosts.

  “He’s bragging about all the people he got rid of.” — Emily Jashinsky, (27:58) “Is he really bragging about [Iraq]?” — Ryan Grim, (28:06)

4. Can Dems Avoid Tough Questions and Control Media?

Timestamps: 29:39 – 34:16

Key Points

• Party Leadership Out of Touch: Ryan notes new Democratic Senate candidates refuse to endorse Schumer, signaling possible establishment shake-up.

• Populism’s Consequence: Krystal draws a parallel to Trump’s 2016 win: party elites ignoring their own base guarantees an eventual populist backlash.

  “When you do that, you end up with Trump...this is exactly what happened in the Republican Party...”
  — Krystal Ball, (33:00)

5. James Comey Indicted—Weaponization and the “Doom Spiral”

Timestamps: 35:58 – 58:40

Background

• The Indictment: Comey was indicted for allegedly lying to Congress about authorizing leaks in the FBI’s Trump/Russia investigation. The panel is united: the charge is clearly politicized.

  “This is a bullshit, politicized charge. There is no way that if Trump doesn’t directly tell the attorney general...that Comey ends up getting indicted.”
  — Emily Jashinsky, (41:20)

Debate

• Tit-for-Tat Justice:
  • Krystal: “I just think it’s hard for me to imagine Republicans being in this position and not trying to dish out some of what Trump got.”
  • Emily: “He tried to coup the government...this is not remotely equivalent to what was done in the past.”
  • Ryan: Warns that vengeful justice makes “being in politics mean that you’re going to prison sometimes when you’re out of power...extraordinarily corrosive.”

Memorable Quotes

• “There is a newly released FBI memo that says Comey also used [a liaison] to the media...there is pretty [clear evidence], but even that didn’t wind up in this indictment.”
  — Krystal Ball, (53:33, 53:46)
• “If the charges were legitimate, you wouldn’t have had to push out your own hand-picked person in order to secure [them]...it’s been assigned to a Biden judge...in normal times would literally be impeachable.”
  — Emily Jashinsky, (40:08)

6. Mysterious Generals’ Meeting—Coup, Photo Op, or HR Move?

Timestamps: 60:18 – 67:10

Facts and Theories

• All US generals and admirals summoned by the Trump administration, with Trump joining virtually.

• Washington is baffled:

  • Is it a war council, a reorganization, or “dumb Trump ego bullshit?” No one knows, but the public nature of the meeting is called “unprecedented.”

  “You don’t organize regime change with hundreds of people...it’s probably something really mundane and stupid. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just a big last-minute Trump photo op.”
  — Ryan Grim, (64:48)

• Speculation: Concerns raised about possible action in Latin America (Mexico, Venezuela), but most hosts suspect a reorg or symbolic display.

7. Disappearance of ICE Detainees—New Era of Official “Black Sites”?

Timestamps: 67:10 – 72:52

Reporting

• “Alligator Alcatraz”: About two-thirds of detainees in a notorious ICE holding facility have vanished, and there are no records of transfers or deportations. Families and lawyers can’t find them.

  “There is nothing that prohibits, there’s no limiting principle here on what they’re able to do, which was the same thing we said when people were shipped off to [secret facilities] with no due process.”
  — Emily Jashinsky, (70:16)

Key Takeaway

• Due Process Dangers: Warnings that expanded rights abuses for noncitizens will lay the groundwork for the same tactics to be used against citizens.

• Irony Not Lost: Right-wing “FEMA camp” conspiracies are coming true under the current regime, yet their originators are silent.

  “One of the original radicalizing narratives from the right in the 2000s was that the government was going to build a bunch of FEMA camps...”
  — Ryan Grim, (71:46)

Memorable Quotes, Moments, and Tone

• “I think it would be fair to say...at this scale [Microsoft’s move] is unprecedented.”
  — Ryan Grim, (08:58)
• “I think people should care that we don’t know [where the detainees are]...because if it’s antisemitic or material support for terrorism, for example, when a non-citizen does it...why is it not material support for terrorism when a citizen writes an op-ed?”
  — Krystal Ball, (69:21)
• Panel dynamic is sharp, biting, and urgent, with recurring warnings about authoritarianism, the “doom spiral,” and the consequences of establishment hubris.

Episode Structure (Timestamps)

• 02:31–13:28: Microsoft/AI/Israel Surveillance
• 16:33–26:49: AIPAC, Genocide, and Political Litmus Tests
• 26:49–29:38: Netanyahu’s UN Speech & Mass Walkout
• 29:39–34:16: Party Leadership, Media Control, The Rise of Populism
• 35:58–58:40: Comey Indictment, “Doom Spiral” Politics, Weaponized DOJ
• 60:18–67:10: Generals’ Mystery Summit
• 67:10–72:52: Missing ICE Detainees & Black Sites

Conclusion

This episode is a clarion call about the ongoing collapse of establishment trust and democratic mechanisms—from Big Tech’s complicity, to the corruption of prosecution, to disappearing detainees. The hosts’ relentless skepticism—a trademark Breaking Points blend—warns listeners of a zero-sum, undemocratic future unless the political class reckons with grassroots demands for justice, transparency, and accountability.