9/5/25: Trump TERRIBLE Jobs Report, Hidden Cam Epstein List Honeypot Exposes DOJ

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode: 9/5/25: Trump TERRIBLE Jobs Report, Hidden Cam Epstein List Honeypot Exposes DOJ
Date: September 5, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Krystal Ball, Saagar Enjeti, Ryan Grim, and Emily Jashinsky tackle a turbulent week in American politics and economics. The discussion is centered on the latest dismal jobs report under the Trump administration, the ongoing controversy and political fallout surrounding tariffs, and the social and economic impacts seen in everyday American life. The team also dives into explosive developments from a James O’Keefe undercover sting targeting the Department of Justice’s handling of the Epstein client list, debates the political and moral meaning of these scandals, and examines fiery moments from the Senate hearing featuring HHS Secretary RFK Jr., whose anti-vaccine views collide with Trump’s legacy. The conversation is blunt, fast-paced, and often bitingly sarcastic, highlighting the show’s trademark anti-establishment tone.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Dire August Jobs Report

[06:30–23:00]

• Jobs Data:

  • Payrolls rose by only 22,000 in August—well below expectations, sparking concerns of a hiring slowdown.
  • Unemployment rose to 4.3%, and previous months’ numbers were revised down (June now a net loss of 13,000 jobs).
  • “22,000 is a very bad jobs number in terms of overall creation.” – Krystal Ball [06:40]

• Economic Fallout & Trump's Agenda:

  • Trump continues to push for Federal Reserve rate cuts, with the panel noting his paradoxical quest to weaken the economy to ultimately force lower rates.
  • Major American brands like Levi’s and John Deere are experiencing international headwinds due to US tariffs and diminished global goodwill.
    • “Levi’s in its...quarterly call [said] a big problem for us is that people really don’t like the United States anymore.” – Ryan Grim [09:12]
  • US farmers suffer as China stops buying soybeans and crop prices plummet.

• Disparity & Two-Tier Economy:

  • McDonald’s reports a “two-tier economy”—wealthier consumers are fine, but lower- and middle-income earners are “skipping meals,” even breakfast.
    • “Double digit decline in those type of consumers...they’re skipping breakfast now.” – Krystal Ball [11:02]
  • Black unemployment is rising, worsened by federal job cuts; manufacturing continues to lose jobs, undercutting Trump’s promises.

• Political Analysis:

  • Trump’s response defers positive job numbers to the future: “you'll see job numbers like our country has never seen before. Right now, it's a lot of construction numbers...” [13:10]
  • The panel agrees that sectors Trump claims to champion—manufacturing and construction—are shrinking:
    • “All goods producing jobs across the board are down 25,000...manufacturing down 12,000.” – Ryan Grim [17:31]
  • Trump's political strategy: hope for recovery by midterm elections, but panel doubts pain will resolve in time for electoral benefit.

Notable Quotes

• “He’s bringing about the conditions necessary to create the thing that he wanted, which is this eventual rate cut. So I guess congratulations to him.” – Ryan Grim [07:30]
• “Manufacturing town construction down, black unemployment up...If you’re going to do a short term pain for long term gain thing, first of all, it needs to actually deliver that long-term gain, which there are zero signs is going to happen.” – Krystal Ball [20:29]

---

2. The Epstein List, DOJ Undercover Sting & James O’Keefe

[28:11–43:36]

• O’Keefe’s Tactics and Findings:

  • James O’Keefe secretly records DOJ Deputy Chief on a date, who claims the government will “redact every Republican while leaving all the liberal Democratic people on the Epstein client list.” [29:00]
  • DOJ responds (via a notes app screenshot with “30% battery”) stating the deputy chief was expressing personal opinions, claiming he had no inside knowledge.
    • O’Keefe's approach—using hidden cameras and dating apps—criticized as misleading and deceptive.
    • “Let’s say about James O’Keefe, like, he uses very dishonest tactics...Is it possible that this guy was saying what he had heard generally in the news and what his conclusions were? Yeah...But it's a very bad sign if someone that high up in the DOJ thinks that's what's going on.” – Krystal Ball [31:49]

• Epstein’s Systemic Revelations:

  • Panel debates whether Epstein’s legacy is a “Rosetta stone” of elite corruption or simply a glaring reminder of how the wealthy escape accountability.
    • “Even if it’s the thinnest level of the conspiracy...it still is very revealing and important information for us all to understand about the way the system works.” – Krystal Ball [43:35]
  • Rep. Thomas Massie “names names”: identifies billionaire John Paulson, in Epstein’s “black book”, as funding negative ads against him.
    • “He’s a major donor to the speaker of the House, a major donor to the president’s campaign, and he’s in Epstein’s black book.” – Thomas Massie [40:30]

• Right-Wing Schism Over Epstein:

  • Discussion on rifts inside MAGA/Trump world, with some figures and influencers unwilling to let the Epstein cover-up story die, even as others (including Trump) move on or try to suppress further exposure.

Notable Quotes

• “He could have pursued any number of other topics...I find it interesting [O’Keefe] keeps coming back to Epstein...If you have any sort of integrity around this, you have to acknowledge that it’s a total and complete betrayal of the way this man portrayed himself as some deep state warrior.” – Krystal Ball [39:06]
• “It was the Rosetta Stone, you know, like this will unlock the understanding of everything that's been going on.” – Krystal Ball [36:39]

---

3. RFK Jr. at Senate Hearing: Vaccine Skepticism & Trump Contradictions

[45:40–65:08]

• RFK Jr. Testifies:

  • Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faces bipartisan scrutiny over his public anti-vaccine pronouncements.
  • Moments of aggressive questioning include:
    • “So let me ask you, when were you lying, sir? When you told this committee that you were not anti-vax? When you told Americans that there’s no safe and effective vaccine?” – Sen. Tina Smith [46:53]
  • Caught in contradiction: asked to praise Trump’s Operation Warp Speed after years attacking mRNA vaccines.
    • “Kennedy is trapped between slavish devotion to the Dear Leader and his anti-vax crankery...it puts him in a logic chokehold.” – Krystal Ball [49:17]
  • Bill Cassidy, MD and the Republican Senator who traded his vote for RFK's confirmation, delivers a devastating critique challenging Kennedy’s consistency (supports Operation Warp Speed yet tried to restrict COVID vaccines).

• Dividing the Right & Public Sentiment:

  • Noted that while RFK's anti-vax stance resonates with a minority, skeptic, or “woo-woo” contingent in MAGA world, broader right-wing support is transactional and fragile.
    • “The MAGA movement is not about getting rid of the MMR vaccine or otherwise just going to war [with] the vaccine.” – Ryan Grim [59:24]

• America’s Fractured Trust:

  • Decline in public trust for vaccines and institutions overall:
    • Support for requiring childhood vaccines: from 81% (1991) to 51% (2024).
    • “I think it's a sign of like societal and moral collapse. We're such a...intensely individualistic capitalist project...all about you and your rights and your individual freedoms while you're of course being crushed from above and that's like, that's what you're being sold in lieu of...a good life.” – Krystal Ball [65:43]
  • No consensus on how the public, or either party, will resolve the “vaccine wars,” and overall faith in the system continues to erode.

Notable Exchanges

• "I'll put my mailbag against your mailbag any day of the week." – RFK Jr. [55:47]
  (Collective laughter and bewilderment)
• “I've covered a couple [MAGA events]...it's the, the hippie to MAGA pipeline.” – Emily Jashinsky [64:01]

---

Notable Moments & Memorable Quotes

• Drily Amused Political Sarcasm:

  • “We're on low battery and low confidence.” – Ryan Grim poking fun at DOJ’s notes app response [29:44]
  • “Trump would love it. Everybody would love that. We'll moderate. Absolutely.” – Discussing the prospect of Trump debating Zoran [05:15]

• Pop Culture Crossovers:

  • Skyler, the mysterious au pair/reporter on hinge: “Isn't that the name of the wife in Breaking Bad?” – Krystal Ball [31:27]

• AI Absurdity:

  • Describing a Trump video of Chris Christie and JB Pritzker sumo wrestling.
    “That's a real sentence. The President, United States, did post an AI video ...that actually did happen.” – Emily Jashinsky [34:47]

---

Structural Breakdown and Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Key Timestamps | |------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------| | Introduction/Casual | Sports banter, upcoming show topics | 02:36–06:23 | | Jobs Report & Economy | Analysis, tariffs, trade war, unemployment, political ramifications | 06:30–23:00 | | Epstein DOJ Sting | O’Keefe undercover, DOJ response, GOP infighting, systemic corruption | 28:11–43:36 | | RFK Jr. Hearing | Senate grilling, vaccine politics, GOP/Dem responses, polling, systemic distrust | 45:40–65:08 |

---

Final Thoughts & Tone

The episode is a dense, fast-moving critique of the American political, economic, and media establishment—from the disastrous jobs numbers and failed economic nationalism, to elite impunity in the Epstein affair, and the dysfunction and performativity of American culture wars over vaccines and public health. The hosts are unsparing in their sarcasm and frustration, often turning serious critiques into barbed jokes, and exposing hypocrisy on all sides.

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary unpacks both the political substance and the show’s uniquely acerbic, anti-BS style.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Washable Sofas Ad]

Let's be real. Life happens, kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail] Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out so you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Neat flexibility. Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Ryan Grim]

Step into the world of power, loyalty and luck. I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse with family. Cannolis and spins mean everything. Now you want to get mixed up in the family business. Introducing the [e-mail] test your luck in the shadowy world of the Godfather slots. Someday I will call upon you to do a service for me. Play the godf [e-mail] welcome to the family. No purchase necessary VGW Group Void where prohibited by law 21/ terms and conditions apply Good morning.

[Krystal Ball]

Welcome to Today.

[Ryan Grim]

From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's a new season and every morning.

[Ryan Grim]

We'Re here to help you take it all along. As the forecast calls for football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts, and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Krystal Ball]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

[Ryan Grim]

Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Hey guys, Sager and Krystal here.

[Krystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Ryan Grim]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Krystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com Become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We need Your help to build the future of independent news media.

[Ryan Grim]

And we hope to see you@breaking points.com.

[Krystal Ball]

Morning, everybody. Happy Friday.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Happy Friday. Huge, huge Eagles dub for Ryan last night. Congrats on that.

[Ryan Grim]

Are you in Philadelphia now?

[Emily Jashinsky]

I'm in Philly. I'm here at the Residence Inn. Coming to you live from the Residence Inn.

[Ryan Grim]

And I'm assuming you haven't slept and you were just partying on Broad street all night.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, I was climbing street poles. Everything amazing.

[Krystal Ball]

Rioting. They're going to send in the National Guard now for you.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, it's coming.

[Krystal Ball]

Gotcha. Sounds justified. Sounds entirely justified.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Actually, a reasonable use of the National.

[Krystal Ball]

Guard Sundays in Philadelphia. It's also a big jobs report Friday, so we've got some. Some numbers off the top. We've got James o' Keefe breaking some Epstein news, which was interesting. Surprising. Yeah, I mean, I guess maybe not surprising because he has been interested in this in the past, right?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. He's the one who got Pam Bondi on the tape saying that they were going through all of the videos and it was all child content. And that was just a couple of months ago.

[Krystal Ball]

Isn't he also the one that did the. The Amy Robach, like.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Hot mic. Talking about, like, I had it all about Prince Andrew. I had the whole story and they wouldn't let me do it. And that was him, too. So interesting there. We've also got Claire cliffs in the RFK Jr hearing, which I haven't actually watched those yet. Have you guys. Did you guys pay close attention to it yet yesterday?

[Ryan Grim]

I casually watched it. Yeah. And I couldn't avoid it, too. Just, you know, you're gonna love it.

[Krystal Ball]

Crystal, you can get my reaction live. Griffin, were you closely plugged in with that one? I know you're a big RFK fan.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It was hard. It was kind of hard to avoid. It was filtering through the. Through the day, but, you know, it did. The tenor of these is kind of always the same. Everyone screams at him, he screams back. It's. It's beautiful.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And then we've got, in the premium portion, we're going to take a look at Barry Weiss's incredibly justified valuation of hundreds of millions of dollars for the free press. So that'll be great. Congrats to her. Job well done, Ryan. I don't know what you guys are doing at drop site, but, you know, just clearly, clearly not providing the value of Ms. Weiss.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I guess there's ABC and NBC are left, so it's jockeying for who they're gonna try to buy, right?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I'm sure you're high on that list because they really value journalism right up.

[Ryan Grim]

There on that whiteboard.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, definitely. And then also, we'll probably take a look at. Zoran is challenging Trump to a debate, which I think is kind of. I like the energy of that. I think it's very smart play since Trump has decided to meddle directly in the race. So.

[Ryan Grim]

And we would love that. Who wouldn't love that? Trump would love it. Everybody would love that.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We'll moderate. We'll moderate.

[Ryan Grim]

Absolutely.

[Krystal Ball]

Before we jump in, there was also. So there is a story put out that claims to have found Amir or Abood is what they're saying his actual nickname is the boy that the GHF whistleblower, Anthony Aguilar, who we just had on you guys, had on this week, the boy that he claimed to have seen shot dead. They're claiming that they found him.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So.

[Krystal Ball]

So in an attempt to sort through all of this and find out where. If he is, in fact, safe and sound, which would, of course, be incredible, or whether they are once again lying, because they did in the past put out another picture that they claimed to be Amir, which turned out to be false. We've invited the GHF spokesperson on Monday. They reached out to us. We said, we'll have you on the show. We also have Tony Anthony Aguilar booked to come back on and also respond to their claims from his perspective. So we have a potentially very newsworthy and, you know, very significant show planned for for Monday. But in case you guys are wondering why we're not digging into that story today, it's because we're working on planning all of that and locking all of that in.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

All right. With that being said, should we jump into the jobs reports? Griffin, you want to pull up some elements for us?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Let's see how it's going, guys. Payrolls rose 22,000 in August, less than expected in further sign of hiring slowdown.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I mean, this is one of these weird ones, Ryan, where it's like, the numbers are really bad. 22,000 is a very bad jobs number in terms of overall creation. They say they increased just 22,000. Unemployment rate rose to 4.3%. If you scroll down, you can also see revision showed a net loss now of 13,000 in June after a previous estimate was lowered. Once again, that was what led to the controversy last time when Trump decided to fire the BLS head because he didn't like the numbers that came out. He didn't like the revisions of the previous reports that made his tenure look pretty bad. And then the other part of this that's weird though, is the markets are actually reacting positively because they think that this will spur the Federal Reserve to cut rates. So they're in a sense happy that the jobs numbers are really bad.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. The irony for Trump has been that he has desperately been demanding a rate cut since, since his election, but the economy was a little bit too strong to justify a rate cut. And so Trump has methodically gone about dramatically weakening the economy across the board. And so he's, he's bringing about the conditions necessary to create the thing that he wanted, which is this eventual rate cut. So I guess congratulations to him if he, you know, if, if he drives the economy even further into the ground, then he can get even more significant rate cuts down, down the line. So, yeah, I guess. Impressive. The New York New York Times had a couple interesting pieces yesterday that are finally picking up on the damage that, that the tariffs and, and his kind of global trade war doing John Deere. I don't know if you saw this. Levi's was warning.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, really? No, I didn't see that.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, that they're, that their global sales are at significant risk because of the perception of the United States.

[Krystal Ball]

Wow.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, the thing that, that really drove a lot of American, American soft power is that even when they hated our foreign policy and even in countries that hated our foreign policy, they loved our artists, hip hop, you know, hip hop artists. They loved our movies, loved our brands, like in particular, Levi's.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it's like the, stood in for quintessential American brand like Levi's. Coca Cola, McDonald's.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Now you would say Starbucks.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Right, Right. And now that's why Ryan hates Levi's.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. So Levi's in its, in its, in its, you know, quarterly call saying, you know, big problem for us is that people really don't like the United States anymore. Meanwhile, China by this time usually will have locked in many, many billions of dollars in purchases of soybeans. They have currently locked in zero.

[Krystal Ball]

Wow.

[Ryan Grim]

Now China isn't buying that they need the soybeans basically either from us or Brazil or assortment of other places, but they're not buying them yet. And that has resulted in American farmers seeing like crop prices plummet and not having any money to buy John Deere tractors. And so John Deere is warning that, you know, their layoffs are going to continue, that their profits are massively down. And they're also saying that they have spent hundreds of Millions of dollars on tariffs for aluminum and steel to manufacture the, their tractors that nobody has the money to buy. So everything is collapsing, which is wonderful for Trump because he wants the Fed to cut interest rates. So the mastermind at work is getting what he wants.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, of course, the question though is, and part of the reason why the Fed hadn't cut rates is because the economy didn't look too bad yet. The other reason is that they're also worried that tariffs will be inflationary. So they're worried if they cut rates then that will further fuel inflation. And that concern remains because you still have this tariff regime, which has not been the maximal one that he had threatened to put on, but is still quite significant and starting to bite. The other thing we covered yesterday was, well, a couple of interesting things. First of all, McDonald's CEO going on CNBC and saying it's a two tier economy, people making over 100 grand, they're fine, they're invested in the stock market. Stock market's going up, they're doing fine. But are middle and lower income consumers. They're skipping meals, they're skipping. We're seeing, you know, double that, he said double digit decline in those type of consumers, which of course for McDonald's, a significant part of their revenue base. And he said specifically they're skipping breakfast now. You know, I guess there are better options out there for your breakfast consumption. McDonald's. But listen, no hate with the McGriddle personally. Oh, dude, huge fan.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But they just added, they just added spicy biscuits. Okay.

[Krystal Ball]

Ooh, that's a little much for me in the morning, though, to be honest.

[Emily Jashinsky]

To be honest, McGriddle changed everything.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The griddle changed the way we thought of food.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And Sager's a McGriddle hater, of course. Figures buzz kill about everything. But in any case, it was very significant comms. The other thing that we covered yesterday that ties into this too is canary in the coal mine, typically for the American economy is black workers. And they're seeing unemployment rates spike. And it's exacerbated additionally by all the cuts to the federal government. Because the federal government has been such an important part of the backbone of the, of the black middle class. So you have a lot of, you know, pretty dire warnings. And the stock market might be happy about the. Trump might be happy about the bad jobs numbers because he might get, he's probably going to get his rate cut. But let's be clear, 22,000 jobs added in a month is a really bad number. And the Downward revisions previously, too, that made it so that June you actually had negative, net negative job creation. And in the sectors where he claims to care the most. So manufacturing job creation has been down routinely for several months at this point.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right before we get to Ryan, I just want to. Trump has a little statement here. He says, don't worry if some of the math isn't mathing. The real numbers are coming out a year from now.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And he's flanked here by Bill Gates and Zuckerberg.

[Krystal Ball]

Jobs report coming out, the first since the BLS commissioner who you fired won't be there.

[Washable Sofas Ad]

A lot of people will be turning.

[Krystal Ball]

To you to see if you believe the data that's released. Can you commit to saying the number?

[Ryan Grim]

I don't know. They come out tomorrow. But the real numbers that I'm talking about are going to be whatever it is, but will be in a year from now when these monsters, huge, beautiful places, the palaces of genius, and when they start opening up, you're seeing, I think you'll see job numbers that are going to be absolutely incredible. Right now, it's a lot of construction numbers, but you're going to see job numbers like our country has never seen before.

[Krystal Ball]

Hmm.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So this is Ryan, you were about to make a point. Go ahead.

[Ryan Grim]

No, no, go ahead, because I'm going to look up whether construction is down. Its construction has actually been down lately, but I don't know if it was this month. I'll look at the.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, no. So that's actually a very interesting comment from Trump because rarely do you see a politician basically concede that you're in charitably, like an adjustment period, meaning you're going to see less than rosy numbers. And I actually think just hearing that from Trump indicates we should probably expect to see pretty bad numbers. He is already planting the seeds of that. And I mean, this is where I've mentioned this a couple of times, but right before House Republicans left for August recess, I was asking a few of them, why were Trump. Why was Trump underwater in polling on the economy? And over and over, they said the plan was to pass one big beautiful bill in July so that by the midterms a year from then, the economy will have adjusted and people will be feeling the big, beautiful bill and feeling the Trump surge and all of that. So it looks like, again, charitably, from their perspective, that's what they're going to have to stick to, which is the economy may not be great now, but it's literally being built. So politically, as you go into a midterm, Cycle. That's a hell of an uphill climb.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, well, time is running. I mean, the midterms will be upon us before we know it. And you know, those cakes are baked before election day. And there's always a lag too, on. So let's presume, which I don't think is a safe assumption at all, but that a year from now things do look up and they're getting better. And we go, we've been through the desert and now things are turning. Like, it takes a while for people to feel that and for that to be reflected in their, in their voting choices as well. So, but on the other hand, I mean, he's just also trying to rig the election so he doesn't have to really care what voters think about the economy or any other issue, by the way.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And this is, this is also reliant on his deportations. Then like black jobs is really interesting because that's what they think will benefit. Like, they actually think those are jobs or those are potential job holders that will benefit from deportations. That's part of their economic plan for, you know, filling those positions after people are deported. So in that's a pretty grim sign for them.

[Ryan Grim]

So here's the, so here are the numbers. And so Trump's argument there was, okay, job numbers aren't going to be great, but like a year from now when all of these companies have reassured their manufacturing, right, you know, they're going to be filled with American workers. And so what you're going to see in the data now he's saying is, is some increase in construction because obviously you've got to build all of these gigantic factories that in his mind are getting built. But that's not what's happening. So I just looked this up. So 22,000 jobs, you know, overall went up this, this month. Construction lost 7,000. So that's even more, that's even manufacturing lost 12,000.

[Krystal Ball]

The construction job loss is even more stunning when you consider how much money is being thrown at these giant data centers which do require construction and, you know, are going up in places across the country. So it means what am I hearing? What am I hearing?

[Emily Jashinsky]

And there's the, the big beautiful bill was full of incentives for construction. So like 100% write offs dated retroactive to January and that passed in July. So going down in August is, is also not ideal.

[Ryan Grim]

So all, all goods producing jobs across the board are down 25,000. Mining and logging down 6,000. Construction 7 manufacturing down 12,000. Durable goods down 19,000. Motor vehicles and parts down down 7,000. Wholesale trade down 11,000. So the like the idea that you can see in here the beginnings of a manufacturing renaissance that a year from now is going to blossom is just not borne out by the data. So I think he's going to have to get this Cato guy out of here and or whoever he brought in here and find somebody who's going to give him some better numbers.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, the maybe you can just take.

[Ryan Grim]

These negatives actually and just turn them into positives. Like it's not a lot of work to fix this data.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Well, people always are more fans of the late renaissance than the early Renaissance, Ryan. So I think you have to hold out a little bit. But let's hear from Fox Business about their view on this Renaissance.

[Krystal Ball]

Private payrolls coming in.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The expectation was 75,000.

[Krystal Ball]

We got 38,000 and there was loss of 16,000 jobs in government, which I think Lauren mentioned. But again, you know that Charles, it's a weaker than expected number. And these revisions are pretty brutal.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, extraordinarily, you know, gone through. I mentioned health care, 31,000. The 12 month average is 42,000. That have been obviously a massive driver. And we know the demographic situation there. Just a little disappointed. Manufacturing was hoping to maybe see something there. It's just I think for the most part there was a whisper number and I'm sure there was this might be right where the whisper number is. And this is a sweet spot. I think from the wall from the market's perspective, you can see the major averages are moving higher. It's not so bad that we think in recession, but it's bad enough that we think maybe the Fed could be much more accommodative beyond September.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. And, and I'll add to that they have modeled their economic plan or they have tried to soothe themselves about the short term ramifications of their economic agenda by looking at the recession that occurred early in the Reagan administration, the first Reagan term. And so this idea that there may be a recession sounds politically very horrifying if you're the Republican Party going into a midterm cycle. And of course that's true. But there's been this balm they've applied since day one, looking back at 1981 and where the economy went and saying it's okay, we can get through it. Ronald Reagan got through it with this dramatic reorganization of the economy. So that's been in the back of their minds the whole time actually. Really in the front of their minds the whole time.

[Krystal Ball]

So they actually believe like they Believe that hype?

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think they absolutely believe that. I mean, if you look at people like Steve Moore, he's been around since those days. Larry Kudlow, Absolutely.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I, I mean, we'll see. But I mean the other piece that is a problem for them is just that the American people don't buy into their economic agenda at all. So, you know, that's if you're going to do a short term pain for long term gain thing, first of all, it needs to actually deliver that long term gain, which there are zero signs is going to happen. As Ryan is pointing out, manufacturing town construction down, black unemployment up. Like these are all the indicators that they should be able to point to of like, oh, but things are going to move in the right direction. We can already see the impact. And so you don't even have the potential, you know, the likelihood of a long term gain. But you have to have the public bought in on that project if you're going to politically sell some short term pain. And there's no sign that, you know, I mean, tariffs are one of the most unpopular things that Trump has done this term. And that's saying a lot because there have been a lot of unpopular things that have been done.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And these are numbers that were put in there by the guy whose job it was to put in good numbers. So we need to remember that. And also he, they almost didn't get them out in time. There was all this drama.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, there was drama this morning. The BLS site wasn't working and 30 minutes before it, the number drops and whatever.

[Ryan Grim]

Lutnick this morning said something like if we hadn't fired the person, this would be a fireable offense.

[Krystal Ball]

Did he really?

[Ryan Grim]

Yes.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's incredible.

[Ryan Grim]

Wow.

[Krystal Ball]

This quote machine, incredible country that we live in. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, I mean, Emily, go for it.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, no, I would just say I think the tariff uncertainty lingering into now August is pretty, my read on all of this is that's just been devastating. It's not, you know, that this has to necessarily look like this for a protectionist or an economy that is looking to reorganize and be more protectionist. But I think the way that we're now into fall and there's enormous uncertainty about what these deals actually look like even after, even after they're done deals and what they'll look like in the future, I think you can pass one big beautiful bill all you want, but that lingering uncertainty is going to actually undermine it in a lot of ways and sort of drag it down even if you Have a kind of charitable forecast about what it could do.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, the courts may save them from themselves if they strike down all the tariffs and this all goes away.

[Ryan Grim]

And Lutnik is always fun. Do we want to do one? Lutnik?

[Krystal Ball]

Let's do it.

[Ryan Grim]

Sure.

[Krystal Ball]

Then we can get to James. Okay.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, that means of the employment, you look at next year's employment, it is going to load all the. We're building all the plants that are coming into America. You know, you look at the unemployment rate numbers today. Wait till a year today. Wow. It will be amazing.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, let's talk about that. We do have a jobs report that's coming out in, oh, over 30 minutes.

[Krystal Ball]

Time 830.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We're going to get the jobs report. There have been some questions about some weakness kind of popping up in the labor market at this point. What do you see?

[Ryan Grim]

Well, the countdown like that economy is just beginning. Right. I mean, he's convinced all these companies to come in, using his tariff policy to just come on in and build here way over $10 trillion of investment. So look, a year from today, the end of this year starting. And look, a year from today, you're going to see employment numbers that you never imagined. Because it's. What it's going to do is it's going to take the 6.9 million Americans who are capable of working, who are sitting on the sidelines. All right, so any day.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That is actually amazing that they are acknowledging effectively, like, well, things are going to be bad. But a year from now, just a.

[Ryan Grim]

Year from now, and believe it, the.

[Krystal Ball]

Last thing I'll say before I can move on to James o' Keefe and Epstein, which actually there's kind of a tie in here is the clip we played of Trump with Bill Gates and Zuckerberg sitting alongside him. Emily, what would, what would the right say if that was Kamala Harris sitting in that chair with Gates and Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai and all those people right there in these very chummy circumstances?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, the right would reapply the socialist drag from 2021 and talk about how evil corporate America is.

[Ryan Grim]

Donald Trump.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And they'd be correct.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Donald Trump in that din, said to the Google CEO, you know, congratulations on, you know, getting off so easy.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Grim]

With the Department of Justice case and remind him that was Biden that came after you, not me.

[Krystal Ball]

It's like, are you serious?

[Ryan Grim]

It's like Trump is on a, a humiliation tour.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That was Trump 1.0 filed that case. Yes, that was his DOJ.

[Ryan Grim]

So it's not even true. It's not even true.

[Krystal Ball]

Is the humiliation toward a humiliate himself to humiliate anyone who ever supports him. All of the ab.

[Ryan Grim]

I think he's angry that his supporters wanted him to do things and so he's just thumbing it in their nose that like you wanted me to go after this guy. It's a billionaire.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Who are you?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, wild.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Especially after the gifts like once Tim Cook gave the. What was it he gave him? A golden iPad.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Yeah. His Magus fans don't give him gold.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Step it up.

[Ryan Grim]

Maga fans buy fake gold from him. It's embarrassing.

[Washable Sofas Ad]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off, so store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Ryan Grim]

Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight the other day playing one of my favorite social spin slot games on jumbacasino.com I looked over the person sitting next to me and you know what they were doing? They were also playing Jumba Casino. Everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino is home to hundreds of casino style games that you can play for free anytime, anywhere. So sign up [e-mail] to claim your free welcome bonus. That's chumbacasino.com and live the Chumba Life sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary VGW group Void where prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply.

[Krystal Ball]

Good Morning. Welcome to Today.

[Ryan Grim]

From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's a new season and every morning.

[Ryan Grim]

We'Re here to help you take it all as the forecast calls for football all across the country. Blockbuster stars, live concerts, and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Krystal Ball]

We're getting back to all of it. And the best way to start is together.

[Ryan Grim]

Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7:00am on NBC.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's right. Well, Crystal mentioned earlier, you know, belief in the project. Belief that in the Trump project. So I think this. Trust the plan into trusting the plan a little bit more. We have some breaking news from investigative. What do we call James o'?

[Ryan Grim]

Keefe?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Would you call him a hidden cam reporter?

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's probably fair. Undercover.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Undercover. Undercover journalist. He's. He uses the dating apps to get his scoops, apparently.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Which we should actually do more often.

[Ryan Grim]

I know.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We got to get on. We got to get on field. So DOJ deputy chief admits government will redact every Republican while leaving all the liberal Democratic people on the Epstein client list. Let's just hear a second of this, and then we'll get out of it.

[Krystal Ball]

Success.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. That was in 2,200.

[Ryan Grim]

They'll read back every Republican or conservative person in those files. Leave all the liberal Democratic people in those files.

[Krystal Ball]

I think they visited that Maxwell person.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Got transferred to a minimum security position too, recently, which is against policy because she's as. She's a good sex.

[Saagar Enjeti]

All right, so he says that James o', Keefe, welcome to the resistance. And then the dog chief had to issue a formal response, which I'll pull up here before I get Yalls reactions. This was a US Department of Justice tweet on the notes app for acting director.

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's an email draft. It's an email draft.

[Ryan Grim]

It's an.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Okay. It's an email draft.

[Ryan Grim]

But airplane. Airplane. And 30%. Like. That's all in the original DOJ screenshot.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's great.

[Ryan Grim]

That's.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're on low battery and low confidence.

[Ryan Grim]

So read the first line. Read the acting director.

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's that the DOJ is at 30% battery.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes, that's right.

[Ryan Grim]

DOJ.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So Acting Director Pollock says, in his words, I met a woman named Skyler on a hinge, a dating app, in July 2025. Her profile is no longer findable. We had two dates. August 4th and August 16th. She claimed to be an au pair in Georgetown. Many such cases.

[Krystal Ball]

Skyler.

[Ryan Grim]

She gave.

[Saagar Enjeti]

She gave no clue she was.

[Ryan Grim]

Come on.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Skyler, the Georgetown au pair.

[Saagar Enjeti]

She gave no clues that she was a reporter or recording our dates. Had I a clue, the first date would have ended immediately. And there never be a Second one, my profile indicated I did government work, but did not specify for which agency. The comments I made were my own personal comments of what I've learned in the media and not from anything I've done or learned via work. I have no knowledge of the circumstances surrounding Ms. Maxwell, other than that what is reported in the news. I also never divulged anything about what I do at work. I recall that she asked if I had any knowledge about Maxwell, and I specifically said I only know what's being reported in the media. So, yeah, I mean, outside of all this, I just don't think talking about Epstein is first date material. I don't think that's a first date topic.

[Emily Jashinsky]

You don't think it's a good litmus test?

[Ryan Grim]

Also, I have googled this and Google confirms Skyler is an American name developed in the 1980s. Oh, wow.

[Krystal Ball]

Isn't that the name of the wife in Breaking Bad?

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's right.

[Krystal Ball]

Her name, Skyler.

[Saagar Enjeti]

She was kind of unjustly maligned.

[Krystal Ball]

People hated her. Yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes. But I think retrospect, history looks back her more kindly.

[Krystal Ball]

I think actually at msnbc, I interviewed her about the way that. Yeah. The hate she got for this character she was playing. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

[Ryan Grim]

Wow.

[Krystal Ball]

Skyler sent me on a journey. Yeah. But I mean, listen, let's. Let's say about James o', Keefe, like, he uses very dishonest tactics, not only in the, like hidden camera and trick you into a date on hinge or whatever, but he's been caught in the past taking whatever audio gets, clipping it together in a way that makes it look actively deceptive or very misleading in terms of it. So is it possible that this guy was saying what he had heard generally in the news and what his conclusions were? Yeah, I actually think that is possible that that was what he was talking about. I also think it's a very bad sign. If you're someone that high up in the DOJ thinks that's what's going on, that's a pretty bad indication of people that are at that high level of government who are watching this unfold and are like, yeah, of course they're gonna just get rid of all the Republican names and leave in the Democratic ones. And obviously Ghislaine got transferred because they wanted her to shut the hell up. If that's a conclusion they're coming to, then it does tell you something. Even if he's right and he has no special knowledge of this case or these files or whatever, which isn't True.

[Emily Jashinsky]

There's no way. He has no special knowledge. I agree with you, Crystal. It's entirely possible. Like, o' Keeffe has found some legitimately interesting stuff. We mentioned earlier the Amy Robot comment from when the cameras were rolling, but they weren't live on ABC talking about how the network killed her Epstein story. I think she said something like, quote, I had it all.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Really frustrated. That's an o'.

[Krystal Ball]

Keeffe.

[Emily Jashinsky]

But other times there's like, really obvious or not obvious. I mean, really problematic editing. That's not obvious because you haven't seen what you don't know what you haven't seen, basically. So is it possible that he cut out this guy saying, hey, I heard this from. Everything I'm saying here is just from public media. I don't have any insight. Not sure, but it's unlikely that a man this high up in the Department of Justice, actually, even the, like, the people in the lower rungs of the Department of Justice right now are all absorbing the gossip. You could be the janitor at the Department of Justice and you would be absorbing. I mean, you would probably know a lot, actually be absorbing the vibes and the mood. But if you're in this guy's position, it's just not true. Even if he's parroting what he's hearing in the media, then that's just validating the truth of what's being reported in the media because it rings true to somebody who's that high up.

[Saagar Enjeti]

You also got to leave. You got to leave a few Republicans in there if you're going to do it at cover up, right? Like, you know, to quote, like Bain, somebody. They got to find someone in the wreckage, Right. You got to leave. Like, someone's got to be the sacrificial lamb here.

[Krystal Ball]

No, they don't think that way. They have no shame.

[Ryan Grim]

You could leave, like, Chris Christie in there. Yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

There'S got to be a never Trumper on there.

[Krystal Ball]

Why is Chris Christie catching strays this morning, Ryan?

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, because I saw Trump's AI video of Christie and JB Pritzker sumo wrestling.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, my God. That's.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's a real sentence.

[Krystal Ball]

That left it.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's a real sentence.

[Ryan Grim]

I have both.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The sentence that just came out of Ryan's mouth reflects reality. The President, United States did post an AI video of Chris Christie and JB Pritzker sumo wrestling. That actually did happen.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Yeah, that did happen. But no, I don't think that they do think that, like, oh, we need to leave someone in there to make it seem like this is legit. And they don't think that way. I mean, Trump went from saying on the trail like we're gonna release it and playing it up and you know, Bongino and all Cash Patel, these people hyping it up and like making lots of money and careers off of it to being like two page memo, nothing to see here. By the way, he killed himself. Case closed. And it's a Democrat hoax, by the way, ginned up by like Hillary Clinton and James Comey. So there's no need for them to feel like they need to be consistent. In fact, we can already see the MAGA base has moved. Like they bought it, they've moved on. For them, it's over. For the general public and certainly for Democrats at this point, they're very interested in it. But in terms of him losing support among his hardcore fans, not happening.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Democrats are semi interested in it. I don't know how interested the Democrats are.

[Krystal Ball]

Some of them are. Yeah, that's true.

[Ryan Grim]

That is true.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, I was gonna say it is true and I think it's probably always been true that Trump's support, like polling public support is not. The needle won't be moved significantly by Epstein stuff. But it is interesting to see, for example, like Marjorie Taylor Greene going on Newsmax and talking, or Thomas Massie going on Newsmax and talking about a cover up and seeing James o', Keefe, somebody who's very maga, continuing to chase the story like a dog with a bone. Those are the sorts of things I think we talked about it here that are not going away because so many people staked, you know, years of their own credibility, saying their own, quote, credibility in some cases saying this is the story of the century that reveals and exposes everything wrong with the corruption like.

[Krystal Ball]

It was the Rosetta Stone, you know, like this will unlock the understanding of everything that's been going on. Emily, is there anything else going on with James o'? Keefe? Like, I don't remember the details of how his organization fell apart. I remember there were like lawsuits, there are allegations of misconduct behavior and like just generally sort of like degenerate behavior. I think there was like misuse of funds. He was using funds for like his musical, some odd dance numbers. Yeah, oh yeah, the dance numbers. I forgot about that. But I was just curious if that, if, if that rupture had created any, you know, friction between him and anyone in MAGA world or what your sense of any of that is.

[Emily Jashinsky]

No, that's a good point. I mean, it was Basically a power struggle internally at Project Veritas, which had a pretty like heavyweight board of directors and conservative movement circles. So some of those ties definitely did fracture. It was just like ugly sort of those things that was ugly on both sides. People were weaponizing information and just was like nasty, nasty stuff. So that might contribute to it. There's, there's no love loss between him, but. And some of those types. I'm trying to think of a specific person that he would have a big grudge against, but he's, I mean, he has been fairly like MAGA pro Trump. I think he's one of those people that because he followed the Epstein story before there was a Trump cover up, is in the position where he has to, has to keep chasing it. Otherwise, you know, if you're, if you have any, I mean, if you, if you want to have any credibility, you just will. You would look insane to drop it if you're him, because he's poured so much into it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I guess. Although, I mean, like, you know, it takes a lot to arrange these different undercover kind of like sting operations. He could have pursued any number of other topics, paths, et cetera, and it would have, would not have been obvious of like, oh, well, you're just, you're not even focused on Epstein anymore. You know what I mean? Like, if he had revealed some other liberal Democratic thing, it's not like people would have seen that as a failure to cover Epstein. They just would have seen that for whatever that thing would be. So I don't know. I find it interesting. I mean, there's also, there is a lane open now on the right that's like the gripper lane. You saw the Tucker lane? Yeah, the Tucker lane. The Groiper lane, the. What's his name? Owen Schreier? Is that his name over on Infowars? Schroyer, yeah. Who just like quit Infowars. And Alex Jones is crashing out over it. And he says that Alex had told him he was too pessimistic about Trump and the implication was he was being kind of censored in his Trump critique and also in his Israel critique. So there is, I mean, there is some media fracturing that is happening on that side that is different. And I think it's part the Trump project is gonna in some way come to an end at some point. It's part things are not going the way they wanted to. I do think Epstein is a big part of that too, because if you have any sort of integrity around this, you have to acknowledge that it's a total and complete betrayal of the way this man portrayed himself as some deep state warrior that now he's like, well, my name's in the file, so we're not gonna be. We're not going to be exposing those anytime soon.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Or it's a hoax, too.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, it feels like a safe attack, because I think these guys know at the end of the day, well, you know, Trump will find someone else to blame. So we can blame Pam Bondi or we can blame someone at the DOJ and then fire them. So it doesn't feel like a direct attack on Trump.

[Krystal Ball]

True.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So I feel like there's some safety in it, and it is like their. It's their bread and butter issue. So, you know, they can't really drop it. Emily mentioned Thomas Massie still kind of holding a flame for this stuff. And Thomas Massie is beginning to name names. Let's hear a clip right here from Thomas Massie who is naming one of the billionaires.

[Ryan Grim]

Let me give you the name of.

[Emily Jashinsky]

One of the billionaires who's running $2 million of ads in my district since I started this effort.

[Ryan Grim]

His name is John Paulson.

[Emily Jashinsky]

He's a hedge fund manager and a.

[Ryan Grim]

Major donor to the Republican Party, a.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Major donor to the speaker of the House, a major donor to the president's campaign, and he's in Epstein's black book.

[Ryan Grim]

Now, that's public, but that's indicative of the types of people who may be.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Implicated or just embarrassed by a release.

[Ryan Grim]

Of a complete release of these files.

[Krystal Ball]

Very interesting.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Paulson. Ryan. Isn't Paulson the guy who shorted the housing market?

[Ryan Grim]

Mm, that's right.

[Krystal Ball]

Cool.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Became a multi. Multi billionaire back when being that rich wasn't as common as it is now by.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, maybe Epstein.

[Ryan Grim]

Betting on everybody by betting on the financial.

[Krystal Ball]

Maybe Epstein gave him that advice and that's why he was so valuable to these guys. Did you ever think of that, Ryan?

[Ryan Grim]

I have.

[Krystal Ball]

In fact.

[Ryan Grim]

How did he know?

[Emily Jashinsky]

When Crystal, you were saying some people saw this as the Rosetta Stone. It's like. Well, I mean, that's why we care about it, because maybe in some ways, it is a Rosetta stone.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, it certainly could unlock a lot of. A lot of. It would. Even if it did turn out, he's not. He wasn't Mossad, he wasn't CIA. Like, he really just. Just was this horrific, you know, monster pedophile who, separate and apart from that, also had an interest in, like, cultivating powerful people just for the hell of it. Even if that turns out to be the case that is still so revealing about the American criminal justice system. That this man was able to get away with all of that just because of his wealth and his proximity to power like that also is. I mean, it wouldn't be that surprising. But I will say when you go back and look at what was going on in Palm beach and the investigation with the local pd, like they weren't gonna let him off the hook because they knew he was wealthy, they knew he was connected to all these people and they weren't gonna let him off the hook. It's when it gets elevated to above their heads that he ends up with this sweetheart deal. And that to me is the center of why it's always been so suspicious. The analysis of, well, he's just a rich guy. And that's what happens to rich guys in America. They get away with a lot. True. Do they get away with trafficking? Allegedly hundreds of girls over years and years and having this vast network over all of this time and still being able to get into every elite circle imaginable, including the highest levels of academia and business and government here and in Israel, by the way, I think that is the part that is very, we'll just say eyebrow raising at best. But yeah, even if it's the thinnest level of the conspiracy, that there was no other large. It wasn't a blackmail scheme, it was just him being a monster and that it was contained effectively to him. There were no other powerful people who were implicated in this kind of gross behavior. Even if it's that, it still is very revealing and important information for us all to understand about the way the system works.

[Washable Sofas Ad]

Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back. Featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right. Sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anna Bay sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back upgrade [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Ryan Grim]

Hello, it is Ryan. And we could all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting your step, you know, all the mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino style games that you can play for free anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. So sign up [e-mail] that's chumbacasino.com no purchase necessary. VGW Group void where prohibited by law. 21 plus terms and conditions apply.

[Krystal Ball]

Good morning. Welcome to Today.

[Ryan Grim]

From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's a new season and every morning.

[Ryan Grim]

We'Re here to help you take it all on as the forecast calls for football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts, and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Krystal Ball]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is.

[Ryan Grim]

Together watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7:00am on NBC.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Well, on that note, let's get to some other ways the system is working or not working. We have our friend, our breaking points, extended universe character RFK Jr here, who is, he's a big fan of mine.

[Krystal Ball]

I think in particular he is, listen.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Fan family, family fights, you know, but we love, we show up on the holidays for each other. So lots of clips here from this RFK Jr hearing. Where can anyone give a brief primer on this hearing and what RFK Jr's kind of new initiative around vaccines is?

[Emily Jashinsky]

So this is the Senate Finance Committee and he got a pretty tough grilling from both Republicans and Democrats. Bernie Sanders, Ron Wyden, Maggie Hassan, these guys just really went in on him. And so we have, we have some of the highlights of those interactions. And this is Tina Smith of Minnesota.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Let's start with this one. Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Even if it's untrue.

[Krystal Ball]

So last time you were before Congress, Secretary Kennedy, you claimed, and I quote, I have never been anti vax. I have never told the public to avoid a vaccination.

[Emily Jashinsky]

But in a podcast, you said the opposite. You said there's no vaccine that is safe and effective.

[Krystal Ball]

So that sure sounds vax to me, Secretary Kennedy. So let me ask you, when were you lying, sir? When you told this committee that you were not anti vax? When you told Americans that there's no safe and effective vaccine?

[Ryan Grim]

Both things are True.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, so more denial, more back and forth. I mean, here's what I know.

[Ryan Grim]

Here's what I want to explain why. Senator, you just.

[Krystal Ball]

No, actually, I want you to listen to me.

[Ryan Grim]

Okay, go ahead.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Even if it's untrue. So.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So we've got that one here. And then.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, let's roll through these Griffs so people get a flavor.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, let me get a flavor. So this next one, very interesting. We have a lot to talk about, is about Operation Warp Speed and if President Trump deserves the Nobel Prize for this operation. Let's. Let's take a look.

[Emily Jashinsky]

This is Republican Bill Cassidy. This.

[Ryan Grim]

As a doctor, not as a senator, I am concerned about children's health, seniors health, all of our health.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I applaud you for joining the president in a call for radical transparency.

[Ryan Grim]

Thank you for that. I said yesterday, I believe it, that President Trump deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp State. If he had been President Obama, he would have gotten it. But because of Operation Warp Speed, forcing the federal government to come to a vaccine development within 10 months, when others.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Said it couldn't be done.

[Ryan Grim]

We saved millions of lives globally, trillions of dollars.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We reopened economies.

[Ryan Grim]

Incredible accomplishment. Mr. Secretary, do you agree with me that the president. That the President deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed? Absolutely. Let me ask you. But you just told Senator Bennett that the COVID vaccine killed more people than Covid. Wait, that was a statement. I did not say that.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Okay, let me ask.

[Ryan Grim]

Because you also. Senator, I just want to make clear. I cannot say that. We'll check the record.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's a question of fact.

[Ryan Grim]

You also said that you were also, as lead attorney for the Children's Health Defense, you engaged in multiple lawsuits attempting.

[Emily Jashinsky]

To restrict access to the COVID vaccine.

[Ryan Grim]

Again, it surprises me that you think so highly of Operation Warp Speed when, as an attorney, you attempted to restrict access.

[Saagar Enjeti]

All right, so that's a devastating blow.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I have to say.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Warp speed is good, but also bad.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that one, because it makes sense that a Republican would be the one with the most devastating question, in a way, because they would understand sort of the weaknesses and vulnerabilities from a Republican perspective. And this has always been such a central contradiction of, you know, Operation Warp Speed. It genuinely was. We covered it. This was back at Rise, and we cover it very positively at the time. You know, it was one of the, you know, only examples I could think of in modern history, post New Deal, where you really did have the federal government sort of like all oars Rowing this direction, doing what it took to get this vaccine together, get it rolled down. It was a genuinely impressive thing. And Trump himself was for a long time very proud of it. Now he's starting to back away himself from whether or not he put on some truth about, I don't know if I got the right information at the time or something to that effect. And so Kennedy is trapped between slavish devotion to the Dear Leader and his anti vax crankery in this question, which is what makes it so impossible. It puts him in a logic chokehold, we'll say, the framing of this question, and I have no doubt that he did because he said similar things earlier in the hearing, say that the COVID vaccine has killed millions more than it ultimately saved. So you can't both think that Operation Warp Speed was glorious and the Dear Leader deserves a Nobel Prize for it, and that this thing was like a devastating scourge to humanity that killed millions of people.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I thought that Kennedy got the better of Ron Wyden and Bernie Sanders in these hearings. But to your point, Crystal, Bill Cassidy is the reason that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Is HHS Secretary because he basically traded his vote for an agreement that RFK Jr. Would submit to being babysat by Bill Cassidy, essentially, who's a doctor and sort of sees himself as a responsible Republican steward of public health. And for Cassidy to be, I mean, to actually like really deliver that devastating blow is pretty fascinating this early because again, Cassidy wants for his own sake, RFK Jr. To work out he is the one who delivered him to hhs. Without his vote, he wouldn't be there.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, and what a fool because, I mean, if you really were convinced that RFK Jr. Was going to, you know, reform on the issue of vaccines or really care once he's in there, what you think, Senator Cassidy, about what the right course of action is? I don't think that he really believed that. I think he hoped it was true. But ultimately he felt pressure to go along with who Trump wanted as his picks. And so he put his own political positioning cuz he knows how devastating it can be to go against Trump, against his judgment as a doctor. And so he put up a performative display of reluctance. But at the end of the day, just like everybody else, he went along in spite of his, you know, significant and genuine reservations.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Vaccine stuff. Yeah, I mean, that was obvious because the point he's making there, I mean, he could have, he could have made that point. Cassidy could have made that point during the conference at that time.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And he was between a rock and a hard place, obviously, which is that, I mean, first of all, he's from Louisiana, not a healthy state. And this is what RFK Jr was telling Ron Wyden yesterday. They had an exchange where, again, I think Kennedy kind of owned him from the political strategist perspective, where he was like, dude, you've been sitting in Congress since the mid-1990s and all of these rates have continued to go up. Well, Bill Cassidy has been in Congress for a long time and is a representative of a very unhappy, healthy state. So when we're not Talking about vaccines, RFK Jr. I think has a more. A stronger argument when you start talking about vaccines. This guy is on the record over and over again. And I'm talking about the politics of this, talking about how Covid killed. The COVID vaccine killed people in mass. That's impossible to square with Trump's position on Operation War Speed. Impossible.

[Ryan Grim]

And it look, it looks like the, the exchange that Cassidy is referring to, he did not say outright the, that the COVID vaccine killed more people than Covid. It sounds like Bennett said to him, you know, are you aware, are you aware that one of the new members. And so the context for this entire thing is that Kennedy kicked a whole bunch of scientists off of the key committee that makes recommendations around vaccines as replacing them with what people think are, you know, cranks and quacks. And so one of these people is this guy, Dr. Retsef Levy, who is out outspoken, unapologetic opponent of MRNA vaccines. And so he said, are you, are you aware that one of these new members, Dr. Levy wrote that, quote, evidence is mounting and indisputable that MRNA vaccines cause serious harm in including death, especially among young people. And Kennedy said, I wasn't aware of that. I agree with it. And so Cassidy took that. Now, there certainly have been killed people who have been killed by MRNA vaccine and badly hurt by it like that. You can Google that. Like that's. That's true. The idea that it's more than number of people killed by Covid. I don't, I don't even think Levi Levy says that. But.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And there's a battle going on here between who, what scientists you like or not. We've got a clip here on that all over the country. Scientists, doctors saying otherwise. They're all wrong too.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's take a. I didn't politicize asap. I depoliticized it. This Congress has been investigating all over the country, Mr. Secretary, scientists and doctors are Saying otherwise. They're all wrong, too. They're all lying. According to you. Scientists, doctors are supporting me. All over the country, there is division on opinion. I don't get letters from thousands of people who are not political saying that this set of changes is going to damage American health care, and particularly these health care agencies, for decades to come. I don't get any letters going to make a big difference forever. And maybe you're listening to a selective group of people. You get. You get me? I will tell you what, Senator. I will put my mailbag against your mailbag any day of the week.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't really even know what that means. But that was mailbag, Emily. I'll put my mailbag against your mailbag any day.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The kids call it going bag for bag.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So, you know.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But yeah, they're saying, oh, well, he's got doctors and scientists. They say they're supporting him, but there is division of opinion.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, well. And he actually, he says to Wyden, like, you're being selective. When in reality, RFK will find the one person in the entire fucking country who has any kind of credential, who agrees with him, and then be like, there's a division of opinion. And I just happen to side with this one guy who says this one insane thing. But both sides have a point. Let's debate it out. So it's projection. He accuses Wyden of the precise thing that he does. And I have zero patience for any of this. Maha, people, you were betrayed. You were fooled. It's the truth. And whatever you think about vaccines, like, put that aside. I mean, first of all, you're insane to put it aside, because it's been one of the greatest, most important inventions of modern medicine. And the defunding of the MRNA vaccine trials that they were. The research they were doing means they were developing a potential MRNA vaccine for cancer. And that's now off the table. Okay, so congratulations for that. Florida's now said there's no vaccine requirements for kids, so fucking congratulations for that. Put all of that aside, okay? This is the administration that cut health care that is going to deny millions of people health care. Is that Maha? This is the administration that is rolling back all of the regulations on food and health safety. Is that fucking Maha? Okay, we're talking about Louisiana. A big part of. There are many reasons why Louisiana has chronic poor health. One of them is the fact that you've got a bunch of toxic chemical plants that are constantly polluting, and so you have cancer Alley something that RFK in another Life might have cared about. Guess what? This administration is rolling back the regulations on those types of companies. So instead they run around and Sager has done been the loudest voice on this, like, oh, now we've got cane sugar in coke. Oh, now your Fruit Loops aren't going to have the same dyes. Oh, now you can eat your french fries with beef tallow. So it's to me, I have zero use for any of this. I think it's all nonsense. And by the way, yes, you're pointing to an important problem, which is America is dramatically unhealthy. The fact that you aren't even talking about the fact that we have such a disgusting health care system for profit health care system tells me you're a fraud to begin with. And then second of all, he gets in there and is just making the problem worse, laying off anyone who was doing anything good and had potential for improvement in the future. So I'm just, I am so disgusted with this man in particular and with all the lies and the circus that's built up around him. I just have no use for it whatsoever.

[Ryan Grim]

There's also a huge opening here for anybody who wanted to take it because a lot of the Maha world like actually completely agrees with you at this moment, moment. And they're losing their mind. They're like, there's a segment that kind of from the 80s or 90s that really, that bought into that like woo, woo autism and vaccine stuff. But it's a vast, vast minority of what makes up Maha. Like Maha people care about what you're talking about. The toxins, the chemicals, the plastics, the additives, the, the corruption of the food industry and the corruption of pharma vaccine fight is, that's not what they're here for.

[Krystal Ball]

But that's.

[Ryan Grim]

Some of them like are skeptical definitely of like that's true. Going overboard and being like giving the MRNA vaccine to 5 year olds. Like, no, we don't need to do that. Like you guys are being too, too crazy about that stuff. Covid, overreach. Yeah, okay, fine. But they're. But the Maha movement is not about getting rid of the MMR vaccine or otherwise just going to war. The vaccine. So I think if Democrats had their finger on the pulse of this, they could get in and be like, who's the one who's in the tank for pharma here? Like, that's the other funny thing. It's like this big fight about the hepatitis vaccine. If you end up with hepatitis, that's great for the healthcare industry. You're now sick your entire life. And, and you'll see morons out there being like, oh, because, you know, you, because you're promoting this vaccine and women who are giving birth, you're in the tank for the pharmaceutical industry. It's like a $50 vaccine. That's not. Pharmaceutical industry is not trying. It's not like desperately trying to like sell that vaccine. In fact, if you get sick because you didn't take that vaccine, they benefit.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right.

[Ryan Grim]

So, so Democrats have all sorts of lanes where they could drive this.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So Ryan, where do you. But what do you make then of this polling then if you say Maha's against this? We have new polling here from Harry enton that says RFK Jr. Is actually the most popular member of Trump's admin. Let's take a listen.

[Krystal Ball]

It's still minus seven long.

[Ryan Grim]

I've been saying Kennedy could be the most embattled member of the Cabinet. Fact check me here. No, I think that's a false. That's a false. That's a Daniel Dale fact check for you. False on that. What are we talking about here? Net favor ratings of key Trump officials. Look at this. Strong RK Jr ain't exactly popular, but he's the most popular of all the key officials that we have recently.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I mean, you can pause this. I, I mean, these guys, like those other. I also would support honestly putting RFK Jr in like that pecking order because the other ones are all like starting wars and invading American cities and, you know, threatening to invade Venezuela right now. So. Okay, fair. I'm doing genocides, so. Okay, fair enough. RFK Jr. Is not currently committing a genocide, so I'll give him his minus seven. Yeah, I mean, I don't know where, like, I have seen some of the Maha upset for sure, and feeling like they got sold a bill of goods. And I do think that that sentiment exists. And I also think it. To your point, Ryan, like, I think it is important for Democrats to pick up on this sense in the population of both of the. With big Pharma and the toxins. And just the sense of you can see how many Americans are unhealthy and dramatically so. I mean, the truth of the matter is though, probably the biggest innovation is Ozempic, which apparently has all sorts of benefits for people and is a solution for obesity, is very non Maha solution. But an Ozempic for all as part of Medicare for all I think would go a long way, honestly, to making America a lot healthier. That's the sad truth of the matter. And then there should be. In my opinion, we need a genuine renewal of public facilities where people can have community and play sports and a major investment in that and making that a big part of our sort of like public pride and public presence. And, you know, that's another thing that Democrats could potentially pursue. I will say I have some sympathy for them because remember the way Michelle Obama was treated when she tried to like, make the school lunches more healthy?

[Emily Jashinsky]

They acted like I was pissed about that because I was in high school and they took away the vending machines.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. They acted like this was like, you know, like Pearl harbor or something. You know, it was like totally insane.

[Ryan Grim]

So I kind of understood lunch.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I started understand why they're a little reticent on that front. But it's time to get back in the game, guys.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, yeah, so I just, I actually think that's a really, really, really important point because Bernie has. Bernie is so viscerally, I think with you crystal on the Maha, like, fraud line that he cannot stand the sight of RFK Jr. Basically.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And I relate to that. And that's probably true of. Yeah, probably true of many people. But I also think that, I mean, Bernie and RFK Jr. Have been on the same page until RFK Jr. S Trump turn for years. Like to your point about Cancer ALLEY In Louisiana, RFK Jr. Suing to clean up the Hudson river. Like, this was his thing. And I think it's really dangerous for Dems to look like they're on the side. I think Ron Wyden came across like he was on the side of the public health status quo or at least ceded that the anti establishment ground to argue RFK Jr because I just don't think Dems have fully developed their response to Maha yet, which is brought actual, like, you see it. If you go to like, Maha events. I've covered a couple of them. It's the, the hippie to Maha pipeline. Like, it really is a lot of people from the left who won't vote Republican in the future. Like, this is to some extent the grassroots there. There are some like, grassroots, like hippie Bernie types who are running in these circles because they think, they look around and they're like, well, RFK Jr might be bananas, but Dems are defending the status quo. And that looks bad. But RFK Jr another thing is he's getting criticized by the hardcore Maha people who are flaming him right now for not banning the COVID vaccine because it's committing like mass MRNA genocide. Like he. I mean, it's just A Maha's a mess.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, some of it seems to be sticking. I mean, we've got another poll here. Emily, you shared this one. Support for vaccinating kids is dropping. Let's take a listen.

[Ryan Grim]

That we have seen. Okay, vaccine kids against infectious diseases. The government should require it. You go back to 1991, it was 81%. Okay, then we go to 2019 at 62%. Look at where that number fell to. By 2024 it was just 51%. That is 30 point drop from 34 years ago. My goodness gracious.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Now so what do we make of that? Do you think people are, when they are responding to this question, do you think they're thinking of just specifically the COVID vaccine or are they thinking about polio? Are they thinking about these other ones that these classic back to school vaccines?

[Krystal Ball]

I think they're thinking about all of them. And I think personally, I think it's a sign of like societal and moral collapse. We're such a, we have been fed such a line of individualism over so many years that people think their individual right to be an anti vax crank trumps the right of a community to keep itself safe and protect children or those who are immunocompromised or the elderly or pregnant women or others who are unable to get certain vaccines at certain times. And so I genuinely, like, I don't want to over blow, but I really do feel this way. I think it is a sign of societal collapse that we give so little of a shit about our fellow human beings that we are willing to put some bullshit we read on the Internet over our ability to keep people who are vulnerable safe. Like we are losing the ability to even see our fellow community members as human beings who deserve the slightest bit of courtesy and attention. And to me it truly is this dead end of a intensely individualistic capitalist project where it's just all about you and your rights and your individual freedoms while you're of course being crushed from above and that's like, that's what you're being sold in lieu of being able to have a good job, a good life, buy a house, et cetera.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But is it individual or is it a systemic issue where you know, how many of these people are seeing a primary care physician often? How many of these people feel like they have access to a doctor they like or trust or feel like isn't ripping them off?

[Krystal Ball]

It feels like, yeah. I mean, it's not. You're not saying anything different from me though, really, because what you're talking about is the fact that we have, I mean, the fact that we don't have a universal healthcare system is exactly part of the overall systemic push towards the individual of like, it's your responsibility to make sure you can pay thousands of fucking dollars a month to get your health insurance that's still going to be crappy and still going to fail you when you need it the most. So that's. That exactly what you're describing is part of the system that yes, leads people to frankly, insane conclusions about.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And if you do, it's like, do your own research stuff. Like it's, well, if you do get sick and you're a poor person that you didn't do your research, that was kind of your individual responsibility to figure it out on your own. And you know, us rich people will be fine, but if polio spreads. You didn't, you didn't read the blog or whatever.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think this gets to the crystal's point about societal collapse. I don't disagree with that at all because the trust institutions is just rock bottom. I mean, it is so incredibly low that people aren't going to trust. I don't think people trust RFK Jr to your point about, you know, having the highest rating but still being down minus seven. There's just a niche of the country who trusts him. There's a niche of the country who's trusting, you know, New York Times, a niche of the country who doesn't trust any of it or like a, a fractured segment of the country. And so you just. Everyone's floating in different pieces now. Nobody trusts anyone. So collective action becomes almost impossible, even though the paradox is it's also necessary to be part of a country.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, no, that's it. You said it much more gently than, than I did, but I agree with all of that, Emily. Yeah, I mean, I'm just, I don't know, I'm, I'm. This will be a good trade. We can transition to the premium show. We can talk about Zoron, which is to me like the glimmer of hope of people like once again putting their faith in some sort of a collective project. And the fact that it's possible in New York City where famous for a lot of jaded people and with a lot of groups that have either checked down on the political system or were voting for Trump or exploring other ideologies. To me, even though I know it's just quote unquote, New York City, but it does show that there is a possibility of a restoration of a collective project in my opinion.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And so yeah, we'll be doing that and more. A better world is possible in the premium paywalled half of the show today.

[Ryan Grim]

Revolutionary hope lies pay your way to a better world.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's right. And folks, that's gonna be right. That's right. You can go clear in the second half with us. That's gonna be breaking bad points.com you can sign up. We've got a nice monthly membership where you can submit AMA questions for us throughout the week and we're gonna get to a lot of other stories like the Free Press and more. We'll see you there.

[Ryan Grim]

So if people watch this on YouTube and then they go to sign up, how do they find the second half? Where, where does it live it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So it'll be, it'll, it'll be, it'll be on Locals. But anyone who signs up for Breaking Points, you get an email in your inbox with the YouTube link. There's also instructions there to connect it to Spotify, Apple, PodC or wherever you choose.

[Ryan Grim]

Would they still get the email? They're watching this on Friday afternoon, right?

[Saagar Enjeti]

So the, it'll be the first post once they have signed up on Locals and then from then on out they'll get an email inbox alert.

[Ryan Grim]

Got it.

[Krystal Ball]

Good question.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's, it's good questions.

[Ryan Grim]

Figure out how to get the second half. I want the second half.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's my, it's my favorite. I love, I love the tech questions. It's the best part of this job. All right folks, we'll see you there.

[Washable Sofas Ad]

Let's be real. Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail] Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello, hello to Worry Free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Neat flexibility. Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 hats happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Ryan Grim]

Hey, it's Brian Christopher. Ready to chill this summer you're in luck. I'm hanging out at Champa Casino and you're in for a treat. Chillax. With hundreds of games, daily bonuses, exclusive exciting spins and epic prizes. It's all here. Always free to play, kick back, have fun and head to chumbacasino.com let's make this summer legendary. Sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void where prohibited by law. CTNC's 21/Fox1 is now live. It's the new way to stream all your Fox favorites all in one place. That means NFL Sundays and college football games, breaking news with the Fox voices you trust and your favorite show streamed as they happen. So nothing gets spoiled. With Fox one you get it all live. Edge of your seat plays, jaw dropping moments and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Start your seven day trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox One for complete terms and conditions. Fox One we live for life. Streaming now.

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast.