Breakpoint Podcast Summary

Episode Title: New Data on American 'Religiosity,' Will AI Be the End of Work?, Digital Necromancy, and the Education Crisis
Date: November 21, 2025
Hosts: Maria Baer and John Stonestreet
Podcast: Breakpoint (Colson Center)

Episode Overview

This episode examines seismic shifts in American religiosity according to new Gallup data, questions whether artificial intelligence might spell the end of meaningful human work, considers the ethical quagmire posed by “digital necromancy” (AI-driven resurrection of the dead), and debates the ongoing crisis in education standards. The hosts, Maria Baer and John Stonestreet, weave a Christian worldview throughout their conversation, grappling with cultural, spiritual, and technological change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Data on American Religiosity

Timestamps: 00:02 – 15:22

• Gallup’s findings: Since 2015, the percentage of Americans who say religion is important in their daily life dropped from 66% to 49%.

  • The survey measured importance of religion and frequency of church attendance.

• Poll interpretation challenges:

  • John Stonestreet points out the ambiguity in polling due to subjective question wording:

    “Religiosity is really hard to measure… If they're going to measure something, they have to come up with some criteria, but I’m not sure that it’s the right criteria.” (01:19)

  • Recent increases in Bible engagement among Gen Z/millennials seem to conflict with Gallup's downward trend, underscoring how variable results can be across different polls.
  • Maria Baer reflects on how poll wording confuses respondents:

    “If somebody walked up to me and said, Is religiosity an important part of your daily life?... I'm not exactly sure what you mean.” (06:00)

• Cultural divides in religious experience:

  • John emphasizes the gap between surface religiosity and deeper worldview beliefs, and between religious commitment and political/cultural positions, such as on abortion.
  • There's increasing attention from researchers now versus a decade ago, when religion’s social impact was often dismissed.

• Notable trend: Young men at Orthodox churches:

  • The New York Times reported higher attendance at Orthodox (capital "O") Christian congregations, particularly among men seeking structure, tradition, and belonging.
  • John: “They're not going to the ones that downplay doctrinal precision and trumpet emotional well-being. There's a difference.” (08:07)
  • He notes this is a small demographic but could reflect unrest and a search for stability among young men.
  • Larger point: There is a lot of movement across traditions reflecting both spiritual searching and dissatisfaction.

• How to discern revival?

  • John cautions that it’s too early to pronounce a genuine revival or a "Charlie Kirk effect," warning against two errors: cynically dismissing God's movement or arrogantly taking credit (“I told you so.”).
  • Maria: “Sorry, is there a second way to—”
    John: “Yeah, the second way is to say, I told you so, I told you so, I told you so...”

2. Artificial Intelligence and the End of Work

Timestamps: 17:33 – 27:00

• Elon Musk’s claim: In 20–30 years, human work could become optional thanks to AI.
• Stonestreet’s take:
  • Musk is “Muskian”—provocative, boundary-pushing, image-of-God-in-creativity-type visionary (18:17).
  • However, Christian worldview frames work as “what we are for”—not mere economic necessity but a part of our purpose and dignity:

    “Every worldview basically answers that question: What are we for? And Christianity fundamentally says we're created for work... Redeemed work is work that untoils.” (18:28)

  • The idea of eradicating work is “a violation of what we’re for.”
• Maria Baer on the human impulse to work:
  • Notes how technological progress always seems to lead us to new avenues for usefulness and contribution, even as easier or automated options tempt us.
  • Social stigma can attach to doing things “the hard way,” but it’s crucial to value meaningful labor.

  “It’s gonna be increasingly important as a principle to see goodness in work and doing things for the sake of doing them, even when there’s an automated or easier option…” (22:28)

• Broader context:
  • Stonestreet cites Jacques Ellul and Craig Gay on modernity’s values: convenience, efficiency, and choice—values that can erode the deeper purpose of work and life.

3. Digital Necromancy: AI and Communicating With the Dead

Timestamps: 27:00 – 36:06

• Emerging phenomenon:
  • AI companies now offer digital avatars of deceased loved ones, allowing relatives to "communicate" using artificial recreations.
  • Both hosts instinctively describe this as “creepy,” highlighting a loss of moral revulsion that once guided societal boundaries.
  • John:

    “To lose [the gag reflex] is to lose something really important because it is to show that we think we actually are in control of this line between life and death.” (29:49)

• Biblical context:
  • The Bible draws “clear lines” between life and death, and explicitly forbids necromancy. Human dignity, as image bearers, is not replicable by algorithm.
  • Stonestreet decries the use of AI “resurrections,” including the reported playing of AI-generated messages from public figures (like Charlie Kirk, posthumously) in churches:

    “To me, it’s just... absolutely inexcusable. It’s absolutely crossing such a moral line...” (31:26)

• Social/psychological angle:
  • Baer mentions the vulnerability of those in grief and the danger in seeking comfort from technological simulacra:

    “We are willing to lie to ourselves and we’re willing to do things, which is all the more reason we should be extremely protective of what is human and what isn’t...” (35:13)

  • This ties into larger issues of relational shallowness and the “illusion of control” over death that technology seduces us with.

4. The Education Crisis and Falling Standards

Timestamps: 36:50 – 51:56

• UC San Diego study:
  • Number of incoming freshmen with sub–high school math skills skyrocketed from 30 (five years ago) to over 900, many failing to meet even middle school math standards.
  • Professors observe students struggling not just with math, but with logical reasoning.
• Root causes debated:
  • COVID-related remote learning, lowered standards (elimination of entrance exams, race-based curriculum changes), and social messaging (“just Google it”) all play a role.
  • Stonestreet:

    “This is the classic, it’s not one thing, it’s everything...”

  • For decades, education has prioritized subjective feelings, social/emotional learning, and self-esteem over rigorous thinking and moral formation.
• Lewis and Aristotle on Education:
  • John: Modern education has abandoned both reason and moral will, leaving students governed by emotions (“the gorilla” beats “the professor”).

    “We’ve kind of tried... oh, let’s do the whole reason thing. We’ve abandoned both the reason part and the moral will part...” (44:40)

  • Classical (especially Christian) schools, when done well, still cultivate rational, moral, and knowledgeable graduates.
• Maria asks about the inherent good of knowledge:
  • Is there a biblical/theological argument for learning the Pythagorean theorem even if it’s not “useful”?
  • John responds:

    “If there is a God, everything is different. If there is not a God, everything is different... Detaching the world from God is to detach things from their created purpose.” (47:43)

  • Knowledge of creation and the ability to know are built-in to humanity; education should thus connect us to purpose and context, not mere utility.

5. Navigating Christian Higher Education Choices

Timestamps: 51:56 – 66:18

• How to evaluate Christian colleges:
  • John no longer offers blanket recommendations. Departments like education, psychology, and student life are especially vulnerable to secular ideologies, even at renowned schools.

    “This has been the reality, the secret, dark reality of most Christian colleges for a long time.” (52:32)

  • It's essential to investigate specific departments and campus culture; don’t assume reputation equals orthodoxy.
  • Consider denominational affiliations and the integration of church and campus life.
  • Some colleges force spiritual programs that become mere ritual, not formative.
  • Know your own child—some may thrive in a secular or “trial by fire” environment, others will not.
  • Gap years can help many students mature before college.
  • The “ROI” is not just employability, but spiritual formation, moral clarity, and meaningful relationships.
• Maria’s testimony:
  • Attended a highly secular “party school.” The opposition sharpened her faith, but she recognizes this won’t be true for all.

    “I joined a Christian group and we were like soldiers in the battlefield together... It was like iron sharpening iron...” (61:46)

  • Many students lose their faith at “historically Christian” colleges hostile to orthodoxy.
• John’s warning:

  “There’s a deep, dark secret from many historic Christian colleges that... there’s a running away from Christian orthodoxy, small o.” (63:47)

  • Do the deep research; know your kid.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On polls and measuring religiosity:

  “Religiosity is really hard to measure... are we going to look to the folks at Gallup to be able to define that for us?” —John, 01:19

• On AI and work as a Christian calling:

  “Christianity fundamentally says we’re created for work... It’s a violation of what we’re for.” —John, 18:28

• On digital necromancy:

  “To lose [the gag reflex] is to lose something really important because it is to show that we think we actually are in control of this line between life and death.” —John, 29:49

• On the current education crisis:

  “This is the classic — it’s not one thing, it’s everything.” —John, 39:26
  “We've abandoned both the reason part and the moral will part and basically said, who kids are is the gorilla... Let's let them make — let's give them everything that they want. Let's tell them that what they want is the definition of morality.” —John, 44:40

• On Christian colleges:

  “You have to know the reality on the ground and you've got to ask those hard questions... The number one thing you need to know is the reality on the ground.” —John, 52:32

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Religiosity Data and Church Attendance: 00:02 – 15:22
• AI, the Future of Work, and Christian Meaning of Labor: 17:33 – 27:00
• AI-Aided Necromancy and Moral Boundaries: 27:00 – 36:06
• Education Crisis and Inherent Purpose of Knowledge: 36:50 – 51:56
• Evaluating Christian Higher Education: 51:56 – 66:18

Closing Note

For additional reading, the hosts recommend checking the episode’s show notes, especially the Atlantic article on educational standards.

Hosts: Maria Baer & John Stonestreet
Production: Colson Center for Christian Worldview

This episode encourages Christians to think deeply and biblically about changing cultural trends in faith, technology, and education, challenging listeners to bring discernment and hope into complex debates.