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Another wave of tariffs, we break down the market's reactions. Six Flags has an activist shareholder. Will the amusement park company sell off its land? And my conversation today in studio with venture capitalist and DJ Steve Aoki, his views on spotting rising brands, investing in health and wellness, and where culture meets meme stocks. For Friday, September 26th, it's Brewmarkets Daily, and I'm Ann Berry, counting down to my interview with Steve Aoki. But before we get there, a quick look at the latest trade moves from the White House. Now, a few weeks ago here on the show, we reviewed the performance of William Sonoma, owner of the Pottery Barn and West Elm furniture retailers, noting that it was doing particularly well, executing against a strategy of clear consumer branding, a move into designing commercial spaces and in incorporating AI into its advisory services. But the outlook remains subject to one factor outside its control, an investigation by President Trump into furniture imports, which was announced on August 22nd. Well, starting October 1st, 50% tariffs will now land on imports of kitchen and bathroom cabinets, with a 30% levy on upholstered furniture announced late yesterday. Williams Sonoma stock responded this morning with a 2% drop, a fall mirrored by RH, that's Restoration Hardware and Wayfair. In contrast, shares of la Z Boy gained 3%, while Ethan Allen Interiors nudged up just over a percent, both mainly manufactured in the United States. And from October 1, there will also be 100% tariff on any branded or patented pharmaceutical product, unless the maker is building a plant in America. This is according to a post made by President Trump on Truth Social late Yesterday. Now, about 90% of drugs consumed in the US are actually generic. That's according to the Wall Street Journal today. And so those would be affected by the tariffs. Nevertheless, shares of US Pharma companies Pfizer and Eli Lilly nudged up on the news, as did those of London headquartered GSK, which does manufacture here in the US 25% tariffs were also announced for heavy trucks, many of which are assembled in Mexico, prompting a drop in the price of Daimler truck shares. Roughly the same time that these were announced, it was a busy day at the White House. President Trump signed an order approving the spinoff of TikTok's US operations from China based Bite Dance in a deal valued at $14 billion, which came in a little bit lower than had been expected. Now check out our episode from this past Monday on why I think this turns other social media companies into acquisition targets. And we're going to come back to this story early next week to break down all the details. Meanwhile, coming up on this show, do DJing skills translate into investing prowess? My conversation with Steve Aoki and market movers rounding out today. But first, Brew Markets Daily is sponsored by Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. Let's throw it over to our producer John, who is excited. It's the end of the week. We all are. Tgif.
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Tgif.
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I love me some Fridays. And because what does Friday mean? It means payday. And what does payday mean for a 1k days? Because one day when I'm retired, every day will be a Friday.
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You've definitely got that tgif, John. While for a limited time, public users can earn an uncapped 1% match on all IRA transfers and rollovers, that's a 1% match. So get started at public.com brewmarkets that's public.com brewmarkets paid for by Public Investing Full Disclosures and Podcast Description Celebrities They've created consumer brands. Look at skims and road skincare. They've backed SPACs and they've co founded investment firms. Look at the chainsmokers Mantis Venture Capital and Serena Williams's Serena Ventures. When athletic and creative talents have crossed over into commerce, the results, like any entrepreneurial journey, have had mixed creatures results. Some have soared, others have failed. Well, to dissect this, I'm thrilled to be joined in studio by Steve Aoki, the global dj, producer and entrepreneur. In addition to cross genre artistry, performing and recording, Steve founded the Aoki foundation to support organizations in brain science and research. And as if he wasn't busy enough, just this summer he launched the venture focused Aoki Labs. So can the skills of a successful DJ translate into delivering success as an investor? And can it when the money at stake is other people's? Well, listen and you decide. Let's talk about, let's start with your investing, Steve. We'll come to some of the other fun stuff, but let's talk about investing. You've actually been a private investor for decades.
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Yeah.
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I read that you were early in Uber and Pinterest. How did that come about?
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Yeah, I started my investing journey in like the early 2010s.
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Okay.
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And that's when I finally came like started making money and I was like, okay, now I'm going to start putting in. I first put into art. I was buying certain things but not too much. And then I was like, okay, you know, I have, I've amassed like an interesting network of people. Mainly people in music. But the people music, there's like this crossover of people music and People investing that really engage with me and, and then, you know, I was just, I just like, you know, it's very similar to, you know, I've been in A and R before I was a dj, you know, for my record label. It's similar to that as an anr, you want to find acts before they blow up. You want to find like something bubbling and it's exciting to be part of, you know, a sound that's like, you think is going to be the next thing that's exciting. I've always had that interest since 1996. That's when I started my label. So investing is similar in that same fashion. When you see a business that's like, you just feel like, hey, this, this actually can scale, this can actually be of service to a lot more people. You can see this becoming global, whatever it might be.
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Yeah.
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Just being part of that early conversation and being a part of, of that is so similar. That same feeling.
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That's so interesting. But there's a boring question before we dive more into what you just said, which is you started investing in these early stage businesses when you'd made some money, did you invest in boring stuff before that? Did you have a stock portfolio, bonds, portfolio? Did you have a house? You know, did you go straight to the sort of. More speculative is a difficult word, but yeah, right.
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Yeah, I did the first, like when I first started making money as DJ, this is like late 2000s. Then I started putting money down in my house in la. I lived in an apartment, small apartment on Delong Pre Del centros. It's like 800 bucks a month. And. And I got my first house, you know, with my, with the money that I was making, I was like, wow, I can actually go buy something. So that was the first thing that I actually put money into. And then the second would be art. I bought a. I bought a retina for 30 grand. So that was, that was a. And the other thing that I put money into was restaurants.
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Okay.
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So that was like the three, the three things I was looking at was like, like art, like collectibles in different forms, but restaurants and then. And real estate, which is only one house. You know, I didn't have a whole lot of money. I just was like, wow, I am liquid. I am now out of my debt. Like I was in debt when I was running my label as I was becoming a dj.
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Yeah.
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And then when the money was coming in, that's when I was deploying it and those three things. And my mom always said real estate is the Answer. And my mom is big in the public markets. You know, she was really early with Tesla, she was early with Apple, she was early with a couple of different companies and you know, I kind of learned that from her. But I didn't really put too much money in the stock market. I really didn't touch that that much. It was minimal.
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Got it.
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I dabbled with it.
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Okay.
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I almost dabble with it. Like I like to dabble early.
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Okay.
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You know, I was early, I would say I was early with Nvidia because I got in 2019.
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Oh, wow. So that's worked out pretty well for you then.
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Yeah, that did really well.
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Yeah.
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Because I put in a lot then because I just at that stage I really felt like there's certain companies that were, I mean, now you know how, how important they are in, in culture. But like I was looking at certain companies like that. It's almost similar, you know, to what we're talking about.
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Did you keep the stock? Do you still hold your own?
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Yeah, I never sold it.
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Well, that's what's so interesting from what you just said, Steve, is you went into Nvidia when it was still really known as a gaming chip.
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Yeah.
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Right before it sort of blew up in AI.
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I'm a gamer too.
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I was going to ask, was that part of your patent spotting process? Is that how you saw its potential?
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I think, I think a lot of the bubbling happens in niche, niche worlds, you know, like when you're in like for example, wearing a Demon Slayer jacket, you know, like that's a niche, highly passionate area, you know, gaming. A very niche, highly passionate area. Collectibles, the same, you know, even edm, whatever it might be. You feel the energy with not, you know, millions of people, but, you know, a small amount of people, but they're louder than millions of people. Millions of passive people.
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Because the volume comes from the passion.
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Yeah. And so I'm attracted to that.
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Interesting.
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So just in general, if, even if I don't know the culture, if they're loud and they're small and they're, they're vocal and they're passionate. I'm serious, I'm just very curious. I'm very like, why? What's happening there? Because I was part of that when I was younger in music. Yeah, we were like super. I was in punk and hardcore music when I was a teenage, in college. And we were very small, but we were really loud and it was, it was exciting to be part of that energy, you know. Yeah. And there's certain things aren't meant to be scaled, you know, like that's not meant to be scaled, so to speak. But there's other things that are. And when you see the, see the certain companies or the vehicles or the cultural moments, that's, that's exciting to be part of that.
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You've actually raised some money. You've now raised a fund, Naoki Labs. You've got other people backing you. In the world of investing, the world I've grown up in, there's no place to hide. Right. Your investments do well and you see the numbers, they don't do so well. And the failure is writ large in the math. How do you feel about the visibility into success or failure that now is going to come with being a fund manager for you?
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So, you know, like, as we talked about, I've been, I've been investing on my own for 15 years.
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Ish.
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You know, and I've been doing with a very small team. Like it's just me and my managers, my music managers, you know, and, and our network that we've been growing. But interestingly, the network that we've been growing, you know, we're. It's like, it's kind of like when you focus direction on something you love, then it attracts you like, like that. It's a magnet. Right. So as I was doing more investing, there's other people that were invest that were also in music or entertainment, but also investing that would get attracted to what we were doing once we put it out there. And over the last 10 years, it just grew to a really good place where it needed structure, it needed, it needed a bigger team. Yeah, it needed a team more in that space. And, and that's where Aoki Labs was really formed. Is putting a structure, putting a bigger team in place, thinking about other people's money. You know, because we're doing this, it's not just with my money now. It's. We're doing this with a group of people.
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We trust you. They're saying, exactly, I vote with my money.
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And exactly.
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Is that nerve wracking?
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I don't think about it as nerve wracking, but I definitely on the due diligence side of the companies, we invest into Labs, we're putting far more diligence into that than if it was my money. Yeah, you know, I've taken some risks and loss, of course, we all have. But with labs, that's why you need structure. If it was just like, hey, just invest in me, I don't have a team. Yes, it's far more nerve wracking because it's all on me. I have a team that actually does just, you know, the double checks, the triple checks, making sure that this is going to be the safest bet that we're doing for, you know, for. For the company. And I'm pretty confident with every single company. I, of course, not all of them is going to be successful. You know, I'm happy for a few of them to be successful, but pretty confident on their cultural imprint and, and how they're approaching sales, how they're doing. There's a lot more that I've learned because of this new team that I looked into besides, you know, what I. How I used to invest. But, you know, I'm like, I look at the portfolio, and I'm extremely proud of it.
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Well, let's talk about that portfolio. Let's talk about some of these sectors that you're focusing on before we dig into some of the specific companies. Health, longevity, mental performance. You've talked a lot about these publicly. I've read a number of interviews that you've given over the years. Talk to me about where you pull together those two threads. Your own personal health and wellness, and then the opportunities to invest that you spot in that journey.
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Yeah. So the, The. The fund is really this intersection between health, longevity, just the overall world view of that, and entertainment. Anything that's. That's pinging culture in a way that. Where people are. Are like, having that look over there, like, oh, what's going on over here? You know, that's interesting to me. Like, those two areas of focus, some of them just have to be entertainment for me.
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Okay.
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Some of them don't have to have a health component because at the end of the day, I'm an entertainer as well. Like, I'm looking at what is pinging emotion, what is. What is drawing attention. And, and is this something that's applicable to me as well? You know, if it's applicable to me or applicable to the culture that I'm part of.
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Right.
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Or that I see that. Like, I could see that it's happening. Then it's something that comes into the area that I'm gonna investigate, I'm gonna be curious about. But health, that's really me. So that's why all the companies that we invest into in the health side of things. I try personally.
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Give me an example. Give me one or two that you've tried and invested in.
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Superpower is really interesting. They test. I'm really all about metrics and data. I think once you have the correct metrics, and data, then you can actually start healing your body or you can start learning more about your body, what you're deficient in, what you're okay in, what areas you need focus in things like that. So metrics and accurate metrics is very important. And that starts with your blood work. So superpower does 100 biomarkers and it's $200. And at one point it was $100,000 to get all that data for just 100 biomarkers and they're doing it for 200. So at scale, this is, this is something that I believe. Everyone should get that data. It doesn't matter who you get it from, just get the data. You know, and there's, there's a few other companies that we looked at, but Superpower, I felt like had the best ability to scale. It has a lot more functionality to it. I met, I met with the CEO, spent some time with them. It's also the other thing too is if I can meet with the team because the idea is important. Idea is important. Right. But the people behind the idea are far greater of importance to me. There's a million great ideas, but the driver in that of the idea is like, if they know how to do the driving, then we're going to put the money into that. So Superpower is a good one. I think that's, you know, when it comes to data, I think it's important. There's super gut as well that we invested into a Dave Freeberg's company or he's leading the round. I'm not sure. He's heavily involved in that. And I think that's also indicator of just the network. I mean, I'm like talking to all different kinds of people. I DJed the all in event.
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Sure.
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San Francisco and, and I follow the podcast and I, you know, I know Chamath as well. So there's like certain areas where like.
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You know, you've got access.
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Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So there's certain areas they're like, I want to learn about this. Yeah, I'm really, really big on gut health as well.
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Right.
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I mean, obviously Aoki foundation is about brain health.
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Yeah. They're related, right? A lot of.
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Yeah.
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Says they're related.
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It's so important. All of it's important. Like, you know, so, you know, when I heard about that, I heard his pitch, tried the product. I really enjoyed it. I really liked it. I don't think there's anything in that space that was doing what they were doing. Neuro as well. Neuro's you know, I think they're. They're interesting because, like, I chew Nero or like, take the mints. It's this clean energy. I've been. I've been taking Nero or chewing on the gum for almost 10 years now. Being on tour, on the road all the time. You can't always drink coffee everywhere you go. And you need that, that energy. And it's clean. I used it. It's applicable to my lifestyle. But then they have this other component that's interesting, just their B2C.
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Oh, interesting. Yeah.
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It's what they do. B2C. I love following brands and know how to break B2C. You know that. I mean, they were. I think at one point they made 10 million a month off in, In. In. Just on. Just B2C.
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Just getting direct.
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Yeah. Like TikTok and you know those channels, just seeing, like, how they're able to engage and do the sales is. Is incredible. It's. There's certain brands like that, like, you know, that we invest into. Final Boss is another brand that does. Amazing. B2C. Amazing. Direct to consumer.
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It's. It's interesting. You said a couple of things, Steve. You've said you're looking for that noise getting louder, even in niche groups, and it's that connection to culture. You've also said, in so many words, you're investing in what you know. Right. Because you're actually trying the product. You're spending time with the teams, and you're engaging with brands that resonate with you because they're part of your own wellness journey. If I just come back to the public markets for a minute. And by the way, I'm dying to interview your mom when you said she helps she invests in public markets. Meme stocks have to. Some people become emblematic of culture in the public stock markets.
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Sure.
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Do you have a perspective on that?
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I did jump into some of it. Like during the pandemic. GameStop. I got in early with the GameStop.
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Why did you tell me why you did that?
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I'm a gamer and I was like, this is fun. You know, I was. I had a lot more time at home. I got really big on NFTs and I was diving down that path. I was already big in crypto. I started investing in crypto in 2018.
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Oh, did you. Which coins did you buy?
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Bitcoin, ethereum.
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Okay.
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Put 500k and that and that, like in 2018. And I held and I continue to buy up until 100k.
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Okay.
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Bitcoin. When. When Bitcoin. 100k. I still bought. I'm a big believer of, of bitcoin and Ethereum.
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Where do you think bitcoin gets to?
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I think it does hit a million.
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You do, you're in the dollar.
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Eventually it'll get there. I think it's eventually going to happen. I mean I remember when it was like 20, I was like, it's going to get to 100,000 and the fluctuation happened. I still continue to buy. I remember when I was at 60 and I bought it went down to 20, I bought it again and then went to. I just continued to buy. Just. I just, I just. I love bitcoin. I love bitcoin, I love Ethereum. I have some Solana as well. But those are like the three that and Ripple. Those are like the, actually the four. The four that I really, I have money in. But my main two are Bitcoin, Ethereum.
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So let's just go back to the meme stock piece. You get into GameStop, you're a gamer. There were others. The thing that you said was it was fun.
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Yeah.
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Now if we were to put GameStop today, it's a bit of an unfair question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. If we put GameStop today in front of your diligence team at Aoki Labs, do you think they would be saying, no, Steve, don't do it. The fundamentals just aren't there?
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I don't know.
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That's what I mean by the meme stock piece versus you're actually doing real diligence. You're investing in companies where you're trying the product. You have a long term belief in the growth versus meme stocks where people are saying there's a disconnect. So how do you in your own mind say I'm going to do this for fun, but I'm going to do this because I'm going to do this over here because it's, it's. I really think that's we're in it for the long haul and this is going to be successful.
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Yeah. I think that when it comes to the fun aspect, we completely push that out of the labs.
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Right.
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If it's, it's me, it's like, then it's, it's like almost gambling at the casino. It's my money. I could lose whatever money I brought to the.
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That's your risk, that's your die.
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That's my risk. So I don't mind. I'm not going to put other people money into that. You know, I'm sure my team would, would be like, this is, does not fit our world. And I've seen a lot of no's that I thought would be yeses.
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Oh, that's interesting.
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So my team is, has rejected a lot more than I was like, but this is looking really good.
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Yeah.
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But you know, and then they're like, you know, they, they do their thing. There's a lot of stuff I don't know that I'm, I'm happy that they know.
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Right.
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And there's a lot of things that I'm like, okay, these are things that I'm going to bring to the table and I'm not married to it.
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You can be dispassionate.
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Absolutely.
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You can be unemotional in your investing.
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And I've invested in things that didn't actually cross personally. I put money in.
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Right.
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And, and I still believed in it. But if, if they don't agree with it, I'm, I'm not going to push them.
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Let's, let's talk about a more general trend of high profile people, celebrities moving into business, whether it's starting brands. Hailey Bieber just had a fantastic exit with Road of Beauty. Jessica Alba back in the day with Honest. They've also gone into funds with a bit more mixed success. Kim Kardashian with Sky, which I think they've parted ways. Sound ventures. Gaia Seri and Ashton Kutcher, that's worked out very well. But they have a mixed history. Sort of celebrity backed ventures. As you come to this, is there any part of you that goes, oh God, are people going to take me seriously or not? If I'm a celebrity and I'm now.
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Managing money, Yeah, I don't think that way now. I would have thought that way 15 years ago or the early 2010s when I was, when I was getting into it, I mean I made some, some really good moves back then but I still would have felt, felt really uncomfortable. But just being in the space of investing for this period of time, I feel confident because I'm doing the, my own daily due diligence and then I have a team, you know, breaking that down if it's like, if it's worthy. So having the team there, um, of, I mean like my team is really strong in that space. So having that and having me road test and try a lot of these things, especially on the health side of things, entertain, entertainment side, I don't necessarily need to drink Sip marks. You know, Alex Earl's brand, I just, I see what she's done in culture I have a relationship with Miles from Palm Tree. He's a big believer in it. We looked at it, my team looked at it like, okay, this is something we think that has, has this ability, you know, we're looking at another brand that's also, that's also a celebrity backed brand that has the numbers, has the jump. I don't know if I can mention it because we're still talking to them about it, but that's another one that we're looking into that has the potential. But there are plenty of other celebrity back brands that like, they don't have what it takes to get over that hump.
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Right.
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They have the initial like, hey, I'm here, yeah, everyone see me, but can they get over the hump of actually writing this business up? You know, but there's a few that obviously have it. You know, we already. You already named a few of them?
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Yeah.
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I just, you know, I think the daily part of it for me, like trying things daily, you know, you know, whenever I get into a brand, you know, I meet with the team, if I can meet with the CEO, talk with them. Another brand. I really like that. We invested in Symbiotica. I'm, I'm a now I'm a big fan of liposomals. It's like, it's a vitamin brand where you, it's a liposomal delivery so you just, you take the vitamins. Like a, it's like a liquid gel and it has the best delivery system for vitamins. I do it every single day.
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This whole area has not been without controversy though, Steve. And if I think about sort of look at a really big company, for example, there was a lot of concern that Apple, when it was moving more into biological data, that somehow that data wasn't safe or it was risk of being misappropriated. And there are other companies who do collect the similar kind of data that you've talked about. And one area of concern has been, look at the health insurance companies. Get a hold of this. Does that affect the way in which people can get access to insurance? If in fact the data shows there's something that's not as optimal, not as desirable? Where do you stand on this idea of data privacy? And would you have a view, would you have a point of view if Generation Labs or Superpower came to you and said we want to sell to Apple, for example?
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Right.
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You like, that's great, I've got an exit. Or do you have a, do you have an emotional reaction to that?
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Yeah, I mean when you say it like that. I mean, I guess it did happen with 23andMe.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. And which got hacked too. Right.
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So that, that is an issue. That's why, you know, when it comes to getting that information, if you can close the loop and store that information, you know, off the cloud, but have that, you know, I don't know how. I don't know how you would do that. I think that, See, like this kind of question, though, is really important to have that discussion, to safeguard that information. You know, there are, like, I, I talked to a friend who has his own. He has a computer that's off. Offline. Yeah, that's. That he puts all his family's blood work into. So it doesn't actually go into the cloud. And then he analyzes that blood work for his family. So then they can get all that information that they're looking for without it potentially getting leaked.
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So it's on premise.
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Yeah, yeah. So. So there's. I mean, people are doing that that are obsessed with this data, but without getting, you know, getting compromised.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But when I think about it, like, I would rather have the data than not Interesting. So if I have to choose, like this might be leaked and this could affect your insurance, this could affect a lot of different things. Or you could. Or, or no information, I would much prefer the information.
- [27:37]
A
Knowledge is power. That's where you land on that side of the equation. Let's, let's continue with tech. Let's talk about AI and music. You've invested in a company called Music AI. I just want to talk about something that Spotify announced yesterday. It removed millions of tracks of what it's called AI Slop from its platform. I really want them to define AI Slop. I want them to play a track and say, this is AI Slope and it included sound alikes. You personally have nearly 3 billion music streams to your name. Are you not worried about AI ripping off your star, ripping off your vision, ripping off your ip? And if you are, why are you investing in AI companies that are in this area?
- [28:19]
B
So this particular company, it. It does AI mixing and mastering, which, like, you know, there is a skill set to mixing. Yeah, it's really important to have a beautifully mixed track. But if you can get AI to do that, when the create the creative mo, the majority of the creative component.
- [28:39]
A
Is done, the origination of the music is done.
- [28:42]
B
I'm okay with that company doing the mixing mastery because that area of. Can alleviate a lot more just energy and focus to what's most important. So when I had a meeting with them about that. I was like, okay, I am actually fine with that. I actually think that's a need for producers and artists to have a brilliant sounding mix and master that's done by AI. And it's going to happen regardless. Right. So, I mean, the AI. Yes. It's going to come into the creative aspect of music and that's something that you're bringing up right now. I'm not afraid so much right now because I haven't seen it affect me now. Yeah. Hypothetically, moving forward, am I going to be out of a job? Because AI sounds like Steve Aoki and like my Steve Aoki, music doesn't. Doesn't get as popular. I'm in a lucky position. I'm more. I've already, you know, you're established, but I've already become. Yeah, exactly. So it's different for me.
- [29:45]
A
Yeah, it's different for you.
- [29:45]
B
Yeah.
- [29:46]
A
What about the teenager who dreams of being you?
- [29:48]
B
So the. The most important thing, and this is what I do with my label, is help these artists get on the stage.
- [29:57]
A
Interesting.
- [29:58]
B
I can't get on that stage.
- [30:00]
A
Let's, let's. I'm so glad you brought this up because I was going to ask. Let's talk experiential.
- [30:04]
B
Okay. Before I. Before we get to experiential. So a lot of times, especially with electronic music.
- [30:10]
A
Yeah.
- [30:11]
B
You need to see the act and then you feel it. You need to see John Summit perform and then you're like, I get his music. You need to see and to be feeling the experience. That's one thing that AI and the digital world can't replicate, is to be in the crowd amongst all these people, feeling that same energy. You can never take that experience away.
- [30:36]
A
Literally, the sound waves. I grew up in London. Did you ever play Fabric in London? I remember when Fabric opened. So you would feel the walls vibrate with the music. And to your point, AI can't replicate that. But is there a world in which I'm making this up? Does the sphere, at some point in Las Vegas become a place where AI generated music gets pumped out through that sound system? And yes, you get people into the venue, but the music's created by AI. The DJing is being delivered by AI.
- [31:07]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [31:08]
A
It's just that people are in the same space there. Is there still a world in which the actual human creative gets caught?
- [31:13]
B
I totally see that happen.
- [31:14]
A
You do? Okay.
- [31:15]
B
And I see that being a sellout.
- [31:17]
A
Wow. Okay.
- [31:18]
B
Because it's an experience. Yeah, it's an AI experience. You Know, it's like you, it's designated as that, you know, like, you see a movie, it's not like the, it's not a play, you know, I mean, you see anime, they're not real people, you know, they're digitally created characters, like AI created music experiences will happen. Yeah, that's, that's, that's 100% gonna happen. And at Sphere, might, might be the perfect spot for it. Yeah, I just went to go see the Tomorrowland Insomniac Unity show and actually jumped on stage with Alan Walker and play the DJ set where you mix similar. Something like this. Because the first two hours of that show is visuals and most amazing visuals from Insomniac, who does EDC and all the big festivals and Tomorrowland, who obviously is Tomorrowland, and they mix their own two visuals and you're just completely captivated with music of the greatest hits of EDM and the most insane visuals that capture that. So I think it's going to happen. I was blown away. I could have watched eight hours of that and I was just completely entranced.
- [32:34]
A
Incredible.
- [32:35]
B
Yeah.
- [32:35]
A
We're going to get to some rapid fire questions to wrap, but before we do that, I want to get back to this sort of artisanal human creativity versus what AI could do. You've collected art for a long time. You are helping musicians get on the stage. If you were talking to yourself, aged nine, call it now, would you say go after edm or would you say learn to play a physical instrument? If you were talking to an artist, would you say do photography or would you say learn to paint? Do you know what I mean? Are some parts of this more easily displaced by AI than others? And where do you think creative should focus and ultimately make money because it becomes a more rare product?
- [33:19]
B
Okay, so now, now I have a son, so I can now talk.
- [33:23]
A
How old your son, how old is your son?
- [33:24]
B
He's two months.
- [33:25]
A
He's two months.
- [33:26]
B
Okay. Yeah. So I've already thinking about these conversations already. So with my son, what I would tell him is I want him to try everything, whatever, whatever that, like he naturally enjoys doing, especially at a young age. I want him to master that.
- [33:46]
A
Will you let him have an iPhone?
- [33:48]
B
I mean, yes, eventually. Yeah. I'm a, like, I'm not against technology at a young age. I just don't know the. I don't know when that cutoff should happen. Having a lot of conversations now. I mean, he's too young to even think about when I'm gonna give him like a tablet or something. I did see a funny meme where the dad gave his son, instead of like a tablet or a phone, look at, he gave him, like, a CD player of, you know, from the 90s.
- [34:23]
A
Yeah.
- [34:23]
B
And so the son can only play whatever's on the CD player.
- [34:26]
A
And you have to clear the button click.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah, yeah, you see the CD rom, whatever. Like, okay, I just play a game on the seat. He's just completely limited. So, I mean, maybe that's what I'll give him for the beginning, but I think it's important to try everything. I wasn't a DJ at first. I was a guitarist and a singer, and I played bass and I played drums, and I played all kinds of instruments, and I was in bands for years, and I tried all these different things, and eventually I retired those things and I was like, oh, let me try something different. I ended up DJing actually, later in my, in my musical life. I started playing music when I was 15 years old, and I didn't start DJing until I was like, 22 after college, you know, so that's, that's old as far as, like, you know, the musical spurt of, of learning about music is to start DJing seven years after you actually pick up an instrument. And I didn't know DJing would be the thing that would shoot me to.
- [35:27]
A
The moon, but did you become a good DJ because you had mastered the art of playing physical instruments?
- [35:33]
B
No, no. I mean, I didn't become a great dj. I mean, I became, I, I, I felt like I became a great DJ because of a multitude of reasons.
- [35:45]
A
Okay.
- [35:45]
B
It's not just from, you know, learning how to play instruments, not, not just from learning how to scratch on vinyl, you know, at the time when I was learning vinyl at first, or how to mix a record really well. It's not those things that, why, that's why people follow you. It's how you, how you penetrate culture. Like, whether it's your music or whether it's a live show, whether it's, whatever you may do. There could be, like, the kid that got kicked in the face from, like, seven years ago. I was like, I'll never forget that show. It was the best day of my life. I was, it was my birthday, and I'll never forget it. Fifty years later, he still remembers that. So the just me throwing cake in your face might be the reason why you like me. You know, I just, there's so many different reasons why I, you know, have made an imprint on people's lives and.
- [36:39]
A
Lodged in their memory banks.
- [36:40]
B
Yeah. So you have to. You have to try all these different things. At the end of the day, it's entertainment.
- [36:46]
A
Yeah.
- [36:46]
B
You want to entertain people, you want to make them feel something. That's the most important is how do you make people feel something special? That they. That they get the, you know, the hairs rising on the arms and they'll never forget? Like, I still remember when I saw daft punk in 2006 and I was crying. I was literally crying, and I was like, this is life changing. I was melted into a ball on the ground and I rose to a whole new person. I was completely transformed from that show. So there's certain things that happen that you want to feel, you want to inspire.
- [37:27]
A
Can AI do that, though, Steve? Can AI do to humans what Daft Punk did to you? Can only humans do that to other humans?
- [37:36]
B
That's, you know, you don't know what's going to happen in the future. It's hard for me. It's difficult to say that it can because I haven't experienced that, but I don't know what the future holds. I actually, I sat with Ray Kurzweil, who has his book called the Singularity Is Near.
- [37:55]
A
Yeah, it's a great book.
- [37:56]
B
And he. We honored him at the Aoki Foundation. He's been like, for me, one of the biggest heroes, mentors as far as authors that I've been reading. Just people I've looked up to since I got into his books in, like 2010ish. I mean, I started the foundation almost. I started. When I introduced him on stage, I said, without Ray Kurzweil, there is no Aoki Foundation. You know, I created Neon Future in my whole album series because of him. I wrote a song called Singularity. And when we sat down and we talked about AI, he's like, you don't know what's going to happen. You won't even know the difference. Because it's interesting. What can happen in the future is that we will be. We're already connected to our phones. It essentially is our third. Third brain, you know, so when we need ChatGPT to answer a question, we just type it in. Boom, it's right there. But in the future, we're just going to be. What he's saying is that we're going to be connected to some sort of cloud where we don't know the difference between AI and. And our left or right brain.
- [39:02]
A
That's the Singularity, right? That's right.
- [39:04]
B
But that's also in our lifetime, so to speak. So then, like Boom. You're, like, thinking about, you know, an actor that you're like, oh, that guy that was in that movie. Boom. It just pops up in your head because it's, it's, you know, it's just something that we'll be able to harness. So will I be able to move us? I mean, I think the real question is, will we be able to combine and merge with AI like this? Because if we will, then it will move us. We won't know the difference.
- [39:37]
A
I'm going to pause there because there's so much more we could talk about. And there's an excuse to get you to come back, actually, Steve, to continue the conversation, but a couple of rapid fire questions before we leave. You just launched Aoki Labs. We've talked about that. But put on your discerning venture capital hat now, and let's make some quick fire investing decisions.
- [39:54]
B
Okay?
- [39:55]
A
Okay. So you get to back one. You get to pick one. Play a music festival in Dubai or a music festival in Las Vegas.
- [40:05]
B
Well, I have to give love to my home. Las Vegas.
- [40:08]
A
Las Vegas. All right. Bows or Sonos?
- [40:13]
B
I'm. I am using bows.
- [40:15]
A
Okay. Pokemon cards or baseball cards?
- [40:19]
B
That's tough, but I'm gonna have to go Pokemon.
- [40:21]
A
Why? Come on. Okay, this is a less rapid part of the rapid fire questions, but you've gotten into collectibles. Why Pokemon cards over baseball?
- [40:30]
B
I know more of the Pokemon characters with baseball. I mean, you're specifically talking baseball. It's easy for me to say Pokemon.
- [40:37]
A
Okay.
- [40:38]
B
Because when it comes to baseball, there's only one. One guy I root for and Shohei Ohtani.
- [40:42]
A
Okay, fair enough. You've got the T shirt.
- [40:45]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm all in on Ohtani. He's the Japanese goat. You know, changing the game for all Japanese people.
- [40:51]
A
And last one for you. Bundt cake or sheet cake?
- [40:55]
B
Sheet cake. As long as it's microwaved and soft so that when I cake you, it melts all over your face.
- [41:03]
A
That's really kind of you. Thank you, Steve. That is a health and wellness and safety perspective right there. Thank you so much for joining, sir. Well, huge thanks to Steve Aoki for joining us. It's the end of the week for the markets. John, what caught your eye today?
- [41:16]
C
Well, beginning with a late morning slump, stocks rebounded after the Personal Consumption expenditures index, or PCE, showed inflation in line with expectations. The core PCE price index rose 2.9% year over year and 0.2% month over month in August. Intel up again today on talk of more investment in the company, this time from Apple and Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing, or TSM. Shares in intel up over 6% on that speculation. And finally, shares in Six Flags, the amusement park company with the ticker symbol fun, popped over 5% today on news that an activist investor, Land and Buildings, urged the company to spin off or sell some of its real estate holdings. And for some context, just yesterday the stock price hit a 52 week low. And maybe make a note for the future, perhaps we can jargon bust an OPCO Popco split because that is what Land and Buildings is suggesting.
- [42:06]
A
OPCO Propco. Thank you John for just giving me my weekend homework. So I'll be cracking on with that one. That's it folks for today's Brew Markets Daily.
- [42:14]
C
Brew Markets Daily is hosted by Anne Barry and produced by John Croteau, Tarkab Delatif and Emily Milian. Guest booking by AB Silver. Our Technical Director is Uchena Waoghu and the President of Morning Brew Inc. Is Devin Emery. If you'd like to get in touch, send an email or voice memo to brewmarketshoworning brew.com Wake up Monday with the.
- [42:30]
A
Morning Brew newsletter and tune in to Neil and Toby on Morning Brew Daily. Have a great weekend and see you back here on Monday. Same time, same place.