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Federal tax credits are expiring for EVs. So what's next for luxury player Lucid? We ask the interim CEO directly here on the show Nasdaq. We spent this morning on location in Times Square. We unpack this public company that helps others go public and Nike Skims will finally launch. Why we're watching for Tuesday, September 23rd. It's Brew Markets Daily and I'm Ann Berry. More market details to come. But first, Nike is a light at the end of the tunnel for the athletic apparel giant that's been plagued by tariffs and by self inflicted issues. Well, perhaps Kim Kardashian will provide a ray of sunshine. We'll come back to that in a moment. Nike's earnings are due out next week and expectations are somewhat muted. Consensus revenue estimates point to a 5% drop versus last year. And as for earnings per share, as much as a 60% decline would not actually shock Wall street, partly owing to tariffs as at the end of June when Nike had its last earnings call, CEO Elliot Hill expected a one billion dollar hit. The company which has, quote, consistently been a top pair of US Duties. That's how much it imports now. More pain has also been expected as Hill continues on with a turnaround plan for Nike that comes over and above the tariff situation. So a bit of background here. He first retired From Nike in 2020 After a 32 year career there, peaking as president of the consumer and marketplace division. Hill then returned in October 2024 as CEO to replace John Donahoe who had been at the helm as Nike lost share in the core running shoe category where it really hadn't innovated. Donahoe also cut Nike's important retail distribution. Now since arriving, Hill's been cleansing Nike of outmoded inventory and gearing distribution up, which is an expensive strategy both of those. And gearing distribution back up includes selling wholesale to Amazon for the first time since 2019. Hill is coming up to his one year anniversary as CEO. So we will dig in to see how he's performing when he hits that milestone soon. And until then, this week does represent a return to innovation at Nike in one high growth area and that's women's activewear. Originally meant to launch in the spring this year, Nike Skims is a partnership with Kim Kardashian's successful Intimates brand Skims. And in a bid to take on Lululemon Vuori and Aloe Yoga, Nike Skims will launch this Friday with three core collections, 40 pieces that can be worn both in and outside of the gym and seasonal looks and in Nike's grand tradition of partnering with top athletes, Nike Skims will market the new line with tennis goat Serena Williams, snowboarder Chloe Kim and other major women's sporting talents. Now this is just one person's view. This is just me. It is not an accident that Nike's newness push comes this week. It will give Hill something else to talk about on Tuesday when he takes the earnings podium to jazz up his turnaround update. And this is why turnarounds are just a slog, especially when it's being done by a big mature business like Nike and especially when you're public with the market watching your move every single quarter. As, by the way, we will be Now. Nike shares down 6% year to date. Come back next week as we are absolutely going to follow up on their earnings now. Coming up on the rest of the show today, we were at NASDAQ this morning. What we learned, what we saw and what's next for the tech savvy exchange and EV maker Lucid. We welcome the interim CEO onto the show, but First Brew Markets Daily is sponsored by Public for folks who take investing seriously. Our producer John was jamming to a throwback playlist as we went through stories today and I have to tell you, the tunes brought back some good memories.
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B
Yeah, for me too. I've been told I have really good taste in music and I know how to go from Motown to disco to even old school rock and roll.
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A
I want to know who's told you that, John to start with, but I was surprised at how retro your tastes are. We loved the old school vibes, but for investing, we're into a platform that's modern, just like Public. With its clean, intuitive design, Public combines.
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A wide range of asset classes with the tools you need to build and manage your wealth, whether it's from stocks, opt bonds and crypto.
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Fund your account in minutes or less. Get started at public.com brewmarkets that's public.com.
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B
BrewMarkets paid for by Public Investing Full Disclosures and Podcast Description well, this morning.
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A
I hosted an event at the Nasdaq Stock Exchange and our Brew Markets team were there in full force. We will get into some of the history and also some surprising facts about the nasdaq. I think some listeners may be surprised that it is, yes, a stock exchange, but but there are lots of other business lines that come with Nasdaq too. It is also itself a publicly traded company. But first, let's set the scene. The NASDAQ's New York headquarters are in Times Square they're in the midst of all the lights and billboards and tourists bustling around. And the building really does take advantage of the location. Lots of sweeping tour windows with great views out onto the action. There's even a studio on the ground floor that hosts finance shows from CNBC so visitors to Manhattan can peek in to see business hosts and reporters at. John, you were there. It was a lot of fun.
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B
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And I know I woke up this morning thinking, okay, I'm going to the Nasdaq. So I checked the train to see how I could get down to the finance district. And then I discovered that no NASDAQ is in Times Square. I was surprised to go to 42nd Street. It was a really fun production. We took a field trip. Yumi and Tarek were there, and we got to see behind the scenes of you doing your event. And then this was really exciting. On Brand with Jimmy Fallon is a show that's launching. So Jimmy Fallon was there as a NASDAQ today to ring the bell. So all in all, just an exciting morning.
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It was. And we had so much fun getting BTS footage as well. It was a lot of fun. Well, it makes sense just the way you describe it, John, that the space has this light and glass and very sort of techy feel with a media capability. And that's because when we look at Nasdaq's history, it's really been known, John, since its inception as the home for tech. It was launched in 1971 and the exchange started life even then without a physical trading floor. So this vision that we have of folks in in the pit getting hot and sweaty, gesticulating, waving pieces of paper around, the things we see in the movies was not how NASDAQ started life. Instead, it used a computerized network to display real time stock price quotes. And then in 1998 actually became the first stock market in the US to facilitate fully online trades.
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B
Right. And where we were today, that was launched, that headquarters you talked about, that was launched in 2000. And it has a big video wall that looks out onto Times Square. Perfect time just for the dot com bust for this tech. But that was 25 years ago. So, Ann, let's get into the business. We know that NASDAQ is a stock exchange, but as you mentioned, it's also a public company. How does it make money?
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So NASDAQ IPO'd in 2002. So again, just think about the news this week and this month. We think of all these companies ipoing on the Nasdaq, the exchange. But Nasdaq itself is a business. It's a company that has the exchange we all hear about, and lots of other business lines, too. So Nasdaq, the company IPOs in 2002 under the ticker NDAQ. And yes, in case you're wondering, Nasdaq IPO'd on the Nasdaq it listed on itself. Right. And here's what's so interesting. I went to Nasdaq's annual report to see how it talks about itself, because I want to sort of look at Nasdaq through its own eyes. And its opening line says Nasdaq is a global technology company. It doesn't lead with ruin exchange. It launches with being a tech business. And it operates in three business segments. Number one, the capital access platform. So to bust through that jargon, where companies go to go get their money. Right. That's the way to think about it. Now, this is the sort of traditional vision we have of companies going public and IPOing. And when that happens, Nasdaq's exchange takes money from listing fees, from the IPO process, from the registration process. Now, just to give a sense of activity and busyness. And by the way, it was buzzing when we were there this morning. For the first half of this year, traditional IPOs on the Nasdaq raised roughly $9 billion across 79 deals. We should compare it with the New York Stock Exchange, though, which is down in the financial district. And that's the sort of yieldy version of it, this beautiful sort of neoclassical building. Fifteen IPOs on the New York Stock Exchange. So fewer IPOs raised about $8 billion. So Nasdaq's doing more, but smaller deals, it feels like, at the moment.
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B
Right. And when we were there at the Nasdaq talking to a few of the folks that work there, I got a sense that they take pride working there and that there's also a bit of competition with the New York Stock Exchange.
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Yeah, absolutely. Strong rivalry, but a healthy competition. And again, this month alone, we've seen netscope, Gemini Space station. We're going to come back to that. And BlackRock Coffee Bar, go public on the Nasdaq. So that's business section number one. Right. Business section two at the Nasdaq is the financial technology division. So this helps people, banks, brokerages, corporations with regulatory technology, with capital markets technology to help process trades and the like. But then also, interestingly, financial crime management technology.
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Wow.
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Okay. So lots going on there. The third part of the business is the market services division. And it's the part of the exchange that actually helps trades to happen. Not just stocks, but also options and commodities and more. So there's a lot going on at Nasdaq, the company.
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Yeah, absolutely. And the market cap is $50 billion. And over the last five years, the shares in NASDAQ are up over 121%. And looking to the future, we're talking about it being the tech exchange. Pending a review by the sec, the Nasdaq could start trading tokenized securities, which are digital tokens on blockchain that represent real shares. That could be happening soon.
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Well, exactly. And actually Gemini, which is the crypto exchange that went public on Nasdaq recently. We talked about this on the show. Nasdaq's actually taken a stake in it in order to learn more about the technology that would help to get digital tokens on blockchain that represent real shares. The, the other piece I would just say about this is to just put some parameters around the size. Again, we think about capital access platforms. That's the IPO. The jazzy part of the business generated nearly $2 billion of revenue for NASDAQ in 2024. Financial technology, $1.6 billion. So coming up quickly. And then market services, which means trading again, like trading lots of different assets. Tokenized securities would fall into that market services division of the company, which is a 3.8 billion revenue business as of last year. So there's just a ton of opportunity there, I think, for sort of newer technologies.
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And it's interesting that in 2026, NASDAQ plans to introduce 24 hour, five day a week trading. So that's going to be the next move maybe. And I don't know when we're going to report the market number closing.
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Yeah, I feel like it's already 24 hours, you know, because Asia trades and Europe trades. And with the time zones I got to take. This is where I have a slightly cynical on exchanges Talking about having 24 hours a week capabilities. It's sort of effectively happening in a global economy anyway. Well, it was a really fun day. I think we want to do future trips.
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Yeah, I think we could go to the New York Stock Exchange if they'll have us.
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I think we have to. I think we need to check out the competition and the history. They're very, very different, which is something that we should actually touch on. Just a bit of a history lesson going forward. And then of course, I'm lobbying for a trip to the London Stock Exchange. I think we want the blue markets crew to get some international experience as well. Well, let's take a quick break and when we joined by the interim CEO of Lucid Motors to talk all things ev, there has been a flurry of electric vehicle headlines lately. Porsche postponing the launch of new all electric models. Berkshire Hathaway offloading its stake in Chinese automaker BYD after a phenomenal run. And Tesla stock rebounding to a 2025 high. Not to mention the looming expiration of federal EV tax credits and the rollout of Robo taxis. To get some context on this quickly evolving landscape, I'm joined by Winterhoff, the interim CEO of Lucid, the Silicon Valley based EV automaker. Welcome, Mark, thanks for joining in studio.
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C
Thanks for having me. Great to be here.
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Well, let's start with the looming expiration of the federal tax credits set to happen next week. So there's been the surge in last minute purchasing in US EV sales. Talk to me about Lucid's strategy for navigating that expiration, what it means for your business.
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C
I mean, in general, I would say that we are the, as a company with our product portfolio and the price point we are active in, we don't think that the impact on our sales will be that big given, you know, we're at more on the higher end right now. And 7500 is a good amount of money, but it really depends on what the purchase price is. At the same time, we see, you know, people right now coming in and say, hey, I want to have delivery until the end of the month. What we did actually for our gravity, which was ramping up our SUV that were in the, in the really, in the process of really ramping it up, we are honoring the $7,500 actually until the end of the year because we have so many orders and we don't want to tell order holders, you know what, you're out of luck. We didn't deliver in time and therefore you are out of luck. And so until the end of the year, we will, you know, honor that for those customers.
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I want to talk about the luxury segment that Lucid sits in. And just for some context for folks listening, we're sitting here in studio in New York. In preparation for this conversation, I did go to your showroom in the Meatpacking district. It's beautiful and it is definitely a luxury experience. When you look around, who do you think of as your peer brands?
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C
It's mainly, I would say the German brands. As you know, I'm born and raised in Germany. So my fellow countrymen, the Mercedes of the world, the BMWs, the Audis obviously also Tesla, although we see ourselves a little bit a notch higher than Tesla. When you look at the interior of our vehicle, the material selection, the luxury, we spent really a lot of effort on that. And if you see this with the Tesla, maybe not so much. So it is really the other luxury manufacturers. And when I say luxury, I think we need to be a little bit careful about this term because right now we are in a range starting at $70,000, but we are working on our mid sized platform which will go down to the $50,000. So I always call this more accessible luxury. What we in the end want to be because we don't want to be a niche player, we really want to have also, you know, higher volumes.
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A
When you turn around and you see one of your peers and countrymen like Porsche saying we're actually going to put a pause on our EV product, what do you make of that? Is that bad news for the luxury segment? What kind of signal does that send?
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C
No, I mean for us we're not changing anything. I mean we are pure electrified company and we think that electrification is the future. I mean I don't blame them because I mean right now there's a little bit of a slowdown in public perception or even driven by maybe the politics a little bit. Not only here, but even in Europe is the same. But long term we are fully committed and we believe that electrification is the way to go. The problem is now, if you're now stopping, appearing back, you will even be further behind in a couple years time when we come out of this situation we're in right now. So while I understand it, I think it's not the right way of doing it, but I mean it's fully understandable. You only have the dollar once and if the customer right now says, oh we want to maybe have another V8, then you need to listen to the customer. We don't have that situation, which is a, a blessing and a curse. But at the same time I think we will plow along and we are for instance, as I don't know that it's widely known, but in our segment here in the US we actually the best selling EV and we're outselling even a lot of ICE vehicles. We are number three in the whole segment, only behind vehicles like the E class or the five series. So I think for us it's clear we stay on track with electrification.
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So you'll keep pushing on. And I just want to jump on something you just said, which is that leading position that leading share you just talked about for your segment, talk to us about adoption rates. I did notice that this year Lucid introduced access to over 23,000 Tesla Superchargers here in North America for all Lucid Air models using an adapter. I'd love to just get sort of a little bit into your thinking and your feeling around what it's like to have your cars be using a competitor's supercharger. And at the end of the day, it's a commercial decision. Right. But you are CEO of this business. You're interim CEO of this business. What does it feel like to know that your core model is.
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Yeah, you're right. I mean, when we discussed this internally, the first moment was a little bit odd.
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Yeah.
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But at the same time, we need to look after our customers. And the topic about, you know, either range anxiety or, you know, not knowing, okay, do I really have enough charge? And when I don't have enough charge, will there be a charger that actually works? And that is not a good feeling. So we made the decision. Actually, the Gravity was the first one, the first vehicle out there outside of Tesla that was Native Max from the start. So you don't need any adapter for it. But the reason was really only to give our customers the biggest potential for finding a charger out there. Because now you add all the Tesla chargers, plus all the other chargers, because if you put an adapter on it, then you can also charge at the CCS charger. So it's really only because we're looking after our customers.
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Do you think the fact that you're not a founder helped you make a decision like that? Unemotionally.
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I have to give my predecessor actually the credit. He made the decision last year.
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Got it.
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So you actually can't do this within just a wink of an eye. There's a lot of things to do in order to make that happen. And our engineers did a fantastic job to do this for the Gravity and also now for the Air. But that decision was taken mid last year.
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You've said that electrification is absolutely the future of the auto industry. I want to ask you whether autonomous driving is also the future of the industry. In July, LUSA did announce a major update to its advanced Driver assistance systems. So I'd call that a little bit of autonomy coming into the driving experience. But you've also just made an announcement that's a partnership with uber to supply 20,000 gravity SUVs. Robotaxis. So that's the driver assistance, which is a little bit of autonomy. To now you're all in on it and it's a lot.
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C
Yeah. And I mean we have to distinguish two different applications for that. One is the Robotaxis, you know, B2B business and the other one is for, you know, you and me owning a car, using a car. And you don't necessarily always want to drive, maybe sometimes on a commute. I do this all the time. I use our hands free driving because it's just convenient. And I mean what we want to get to is that at some point we get to a level and we're actually working very extensively on that, that you can not only take the hands of the steering wheel, you can actually take the ice off the road as well, which is then level four because then it's really useful. You can read your emails and those kind of things while you're driving. So for commuting this is perfect. That's what we're also working on. So for us this is really, we established ourselves as I would say the EV technology leader in the market and now our next frontier is really to do the same in the autonomous space.
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A
So talk to me about the partnership with Uber and I just outside in Uber looks quite promiscuous when it comes to the partnerships that strike at the moment. I feel like every auto manufacturer has announced a tie up with Uber and they are everywhere. Right. You just can't match the scale of their rideshare presence. So when you sign up to a partnership like that, how do you say we can differentiate ourselves within Uber's ecosystem? What's your lane going to be?
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C
Well, I mean, first of all, it's the only partnership that they do where they actually invest in. Talk about that with an automotive company. And so it is the only constellation right now where they want to have a purpose built vehicle just for them. And they also then support us and Nuro in order to get there. All the others are basically tagging along on processes that are already happening, but they're not really investing into it. And Uber selected us because of our EV technology, because of our range. And when you think about it, in that kind of business, everything that counts is uptime. And you don't want to be charging somewhere because then you cannot make money. So that was the main reason. And with Nuro together we're working on a product that is really tailor made for Uber in my opinion. And this agreement is only the start because I mean 20,000 is a good number but at the same time when you look at the details of the agreement, it's about over six years. It's not that big of a number. So our aspiration is that this will be much bigger than that.
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How much did having the heft of Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund behind Lucid support making partnerships like that?
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C
Not necessarily for this partnership, but in general, I think it is a very, the PIF is a very good partner for us. I mean, they think very strategic long term. They know that building automobiles, but then scale automobiles and also actually building an automotive cluster with them in Saudi Arabia is a long term gain. So you have to be in it for the long haul. You cannot look every quarter, okay, oh my gosh, when are they going to be profitable? So with that, I have to say that they're really a very, very good partner. And obviously that's also what the market sees, what partners like Uber see. Okay. They will be around. I mean, it doesn't mean that we can take anything for granted. I want to be very clear about this. We have deliverables that we need to hit, deadlines that we need to hit. But as long as we do this, I think, yeah, they will stay a great partner.
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A
And with such a large international partner like pif, what does that mean for the way in which Lucid, as you look ahead, thinks of how much of its revenue will come from the US versus from other markets, including in the Middle East?
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C
Yeah, I mean, the Middle east market is actually not that big. I mean, it is big in comparison, but it's not that we are thinking, oh my gosh, 60% of our revenue or even more would come from there. US is our by far strongest market right now and it will be also in the future then. We are right now expanding in Europe. We are in four countries right now. We plan to be in another eight countries next year. So Europe is a big one. We will also further grow in different markets in the Middle East. But I wouldn't say that this is kind of like the volume driver for us. Why we are in Saudi Arabia is really more because as part of the Vision 2030, Saudi Arabia wants to build new industries in their country. And that's what we signed up for, to do that together with them, to be like a nucleus for the automotive industry. But from a market perspective, US will always be much bigger. And maybe a last statement, we're not going to China.
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Okay. All right, you're very clear on that.
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C
Yes.
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A
Speaking of the U.S. we do often get questions from the audience here on Brew Markets and we have one from Elliot in Silver Spring who wrote when I travel to The west coast for work. I see robo taxis and driverless cars. Why does that part of the US seem to dominate the robo taxi or the autonomous market? When will the map expand? What's your thought on that? You've been in Silicon Valley. You've been living out in Silicon Valley now for every year.
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C
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it is the. I would say it's a closely closeness to the tech that makes this probably the area where people adopt this the fastest because they're always open for new things to try out. But it will not stay just here in the Bay Area or maybe in Southern California. I would think it will be first rolled out in all of the major cities and then further permanent in smaller cities. Yeah, but it won't stay here. But it's just a different breed out in California, I can tell you that.
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Different mindset. Well, speaking of different breed, we're just going to finish with a couple of more personal questions, actually. You became interim CEO in February of 2025. You had joined Lucid in December of 2023 as the chief operating officer. Before that, partner at a prestigious European management consultancy firm. So talk to us about life in the big seat. Right. You've grabbed the helm. You know, you're at the helm, you sort of grab the ball by the horns. You've struck these new partnerships. You stepped in at a point of turmoil for Lucid. As you look around now, what is your sense of stability? What's your sense of the team coalescing? Just talk to us about how it feels morale wise in the company right now.
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C
Yeah, I think we made a lot of improvements also with, you know, making some changes actually in internally, but also with the direction. I mean the things with Uber and also doubling down on Autonomous is something that we haven't paid that much attention to in the past. But you know, it's very important in the market. And so we're now doubling down on things we before were not so focused on. And many people in our company see this actually as something that will drive the company forward. So from that perspective, it's good. Beyond that, I mean, we are very focused right now on execution. We have to ramp up the gravity. Make no secret about it, we're behind there and we really want to get still until the end of the year to the numbers that we committed. So we're adding additional shifts. Right now everybody is laser focused on delivering. And that's a nice sense actually to feel that in the company.
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A
Last question for you. We had Dan Ives, the Wedbush head of tech speak with us here on Friday and one question that was asked of him was do CEOs with engineering backgrounds fare better in companies like the looses of the world? What's your personal perspective? You do have an MA in electrical and electronics engineering.
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C
Yeah. I have to admit though, yeah, I think I forgot all of it. But, but I mean what, what I, you know the main thing that I, that I learned is in you know, during engineering time is really problem solving, structuring problems and attacking them and solve them and move on to the next one. I think that is something that is important. At the same time you also always need to think about the customer and that maybe sometimes is not so ideal when you are an engineer because you always want to build the greatest thing out there that has never been built. And the second question is then only is there even customer for it? So since I have a long career in consulting where I mainly focused on that part of the questions, I think I have a good combination of the two skills.
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Mark, I know you're incredibly busy. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's 4pm on the east Coast. There it is, the closing bell. The markets are wrapping up for the day. Well, we don't have a ticker tape so we throw it over to our human ticker. John.
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B
That's right. The major indices finished down today pulling back from their record setting streak as Fed chair Jerome Powell suggested equities were quote fairly highly valued. Powell also signaled that rate cutting path wasn't clear and that it was quote a challenging situation. The S&P 500 was down half a percent today. The Dow finished down 2:10 and the Nasdaq was down nearly 1%. A market headline. Shares in Boeing were up nearly 2% today after David Perdue, the US ambassador to China said that US and Beijing are finishing negotiations for a quote, huge order of Boeing jets that could be up to 500 planes. This coming after Boeing announced an $8 billion deal to sell planes to Uzbekistan which the company notes is its single largest order to date.
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A
So much going on in the markets today. And just as a final thought, wanted to touch on actually a story that broke yesterday and that is the announcement that Nvidia is making an enormous investment into open AI. That's $100 billion investment announced by the company yesterday. Now when this announced I REM team and saying anything Nvidia does of this kind of magnitude is worthy of comment. But I wanted to take a beat before talking about it actually on the show because even though Nvidia share price popped something about it just didn't sit perfectly with me and I went away and thought about it and I literally said to the team this morning, I'm worried about the money going around in circles because OpenAI is a massive customer of Nvidia's buying masses of chips from Nvidia driving Nvidia's revenue. And now here's Nvidia dropping $100 billion into that client. So ultimately, who's really benefiting from the spend? You know, the Economist then posted an article today. The subheader was circular thinking, which kind of, you know, on the same page and said Nvidia's a hundred dollar one hundred billion bet on OpenAI raises more questions than it answers. And that's actually a drum beat that has has been getting beaten a little bit louder in the markets day you've seen Nvidia share price come off. This is not the only time I think we're going to see this question raised when we see big customers getting investments from these big tech companies, whether it's Oracle, whether it's others. Just keep watching this one. We're going to keep watching this one because I think there's going to be a lot more scrutiny around where the money is actually coming from for these AI investments and where it's really going to go to. That's it, folks. For today's blue markets Daily Brew Markets.
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Daily is hosted by Ann Berry and produced by John Crateau, Tarek Abdelatif and Emily Milian. Our technical director is Uchenawaogu. Jesse Derozier handles audio and guest booking by A.B. silver. The President of Morning Brew Inc. Is Devin Emery.
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A
Wake up tomorrow with the Morning Brew newsletter and tune in to Neil and Toby on Morning Brew Daily. We'll see you back here tomorrow, same time, same place.