Podcast Summary: Brew Markets
Episode: Michael Lewis: Revisiting Insights from “The Big Short”
Host: Ann Berry
Guest: Michael Lewis (Author of The Big Short)
Date: January 2, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode of Brew Markets, hosted by Ann Berry, revisits the themes, personalities, and enduring lessons of Michael Lewis’s The Big Short—15 years after the book chronicled the 2008 financial crisis, and a decade after its film adaptation. Their insightful discussion explores the psychology of crisis, the evolution of financial risk, the impact of social media on transparency, contemporary bubbles and fraud, and what today’s markets might learn (or not) from the past. Lewis also shares personal stories, reflections on asset allocation, and thoughts on the business of writing.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Investor Psychology: Then vs. Now
[04:13–07:13]
- Ann Berry prompts Lewis to compare investor mindsets surrounding the 2008 crisis and today.
- Michael Lewis:
- In 2007–2008, people saw banks as "the smart money" but were shocked by their catastrophic mistakes.
“It turns out that, no, they’re actually doing something incredibly stupid. And the best thing you could be is on the other side of their bets." (Lewis, 05:40)
- The crucial difference was a small set of people (like Michael Burry) who recognized and bet against Wall Street.
- After realizing banks were vulnerable, trust evaporated, and systemic risk intensified.
- In 2007–2008, people saw banks as "the smart money" but were shocked by their catastrophic mistakes.
2. Michael Burry, Meme Stocks, and Online Influence
[07:13–11:04]
- Michael Burry is profiled as uniquely data-driven, solitary, and value-focused—contrasting sharply with the communal, momentum-driven "meme stock" phenomenon:
“Michael Burry thought there was some ultimate truths to be gleaned from numbers... And the Meme stock [traders are like], which way is this herd going? And we can drive it that way ... It’s a social event more than a financial event.” (Lewis, 09:48)
- Discussion highlights how Burry’s presence on online message boards (pre-Reddit) helped institutional investors find him, but today’s social media flows primarily opinion instead of information.
3. Would Social Media Have Changed the 2008 Crisis?
[11:04–13:46]
- Lewis believes the crisis might not have exploded to such size if today's social media had existed, due to increased transparency and whistleblowing:
“You’ll be reading online about the stripper in Las Vegas who just got her 25th loan. Right. So I think it might have helped actually.” (Lewis, 11:20)
- However, the aftermath—mistrust, erosion of institutions like the Fed, and the birth of Bitcoin—has made responses to crisis riskier.
“...2008 gave us a world of intense mistrust of institutions, banks, governments. Bitcoin was born out of 2008.” (Lewis, 12:40)
- Lewis thinks, today, it would be much harder to coordinate bailouts due to public mistrust.
4. Are We in a Bubble Now? Asset Prices, Fraud & Defensive Investing
[14:40–20:31]
- Lewis references Burry's principle:
"It is ludicrous to believe asset bubbles can only be recognized in hindsight. ... Rapid rise of the incidence and complexity of fraud is a hallmark of mania." (Berry, quoting Burry, 14:40)
- He links this mentality to recent events in crypto and companies like FTX.
- Lewis feels "personally uncomfortable" with current asset prices, having shifted into gold, cash-like assets (Berkshire Hathaway), and even some euros:
“I have done things I’ve never done before...I am sitting on a huge pile of gold.” (Lewis, 16:21)
- He’s skeptical that AI or the US fiscal situation can be counted on for stability; doesn’t own crypto but "would not bet against bitcoin."
“It’s a religion. It’s religious faith, like with gold. ... Maybe it’s a smart place to put money, but I don’t feel comfortable.” (Lewis, 19:48)
5. Political Incentives and Financial System Risks
[20:40–23:08]
- Ann and Michael discuss the implications of a sitting president being "very long crypto," suggesting moral hazard if a leader has incentives to debase the dollar for personal gain:
“We have a president who has a financial incentive to undermine the credibility of the currency. ... That’s a whole new thing. Makes me uncomfortable.” (Lewis, 21:14)
- Incentives, Lewis notes, were at the root of past crises:
“Incentives drive everything on Wall Street... If those people ... can be incentivized to do such stupid things, who can’t be?” (Lewis, 22:17)
6. Private Credit and Consumer Leverage
[23:08–27:20]
- The growth and opacity of private credit markets is flagged as a "watch closely" area. Lewis worries about leverage and lack of regulation in these giant institutions.
- "Buy now, pay later" schemes, neo-banks, and rising consumer debt are seen as echoes of the pre-2008 environment, though Lewis hasn’t deeply researched current data.
7. Lessons for Young Investors and Professionals
[27:20–29:51]
- Lewis advises not to make investing central to life—focus on preservation, not getting rich quickly.
“Don’t live your life as a financial life...It is so easy to think you’re smarter than a market and you’re not.” (Lewis, 27:42)
- Other takeaways: Understand the time value of money, start early, and get on the lending side (“Don’t be a borrower, be a lender.” (Lewis, 29:39))
- Cautions against overestimating one’s knowledge in markets—applies to investing and even things like sports gambling.
8. AI, Forensic Skills, and the Future of Work
[29:51–33:24]
- Discussed whether future analysts will still need deep forensic skills in an age of powerful AI.
- Lewis argues AI won’t replace the creativity to ask the right questions:
“What the AI won’t do is ask the right question. ... All they have to do is have the sense to ask the question.” (Lewis, 30:44)
- He expresses concern about AI-induced job loss and societal disruption—with little serious discussion among tech leaders on how to address this.
9. Accountability for the Financial Crisis
[33:24–36:42]
- Few US bankers faced jail after the crisis; most juries had little appetite (or ability) to convict complex financial fraud:
“What’s scandalous is not what’s illegal, it’s what’s legal...the system legally allowed an awful lot of this behavior.” (Lewis, 34:01)
- Lewis cites parallels to the 1929 crash, as chronicled by Andrew Ross Sorkin.
10. The Craft of Writing: Lewis on His Process
[36:42–39:17]
- Lewis’s approach: Deep planning and structural focus before putting words to paper, resulting in fast, clean first drafts.
“What I agonize over is structure and how to play the hand. The story. ... And when I’ve persuaded myself that I know how I’m going to tell the story ... it comes very fast.” (Lewis, 37:29)
- He likens his writing process to fresco painting: careful, irreversible daily execution.
11. Recent Work and Final Reflections
[39:17–41:01]
- Lewis recently recorded the audiobook for The Big Short and is working on a new project.
- His podcast, Against the Rules, has a new season focused on the financial crisis.
“We’ve done seven episodes looking back on the financial crisis. ... The first one dropped yesterday.” (Lewis, 40:29)
Notable Quotes & Moments
- “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes.” (Ann Berry quoting Mark Twain, 00:00)
- “The opacity ... made that event possible. The opacity was partly complexity, it was partly people not paying attention.” (Michael Lewis, 11:20)
- “If those people ... can be incentivized to do such stupid things, who can’t be?” (Michael Lewis, 22:17)
- “Don’t live your life as a financial life ... invest not to lose it, not because you think you’re going to get rich investing.” (Michael Lewis, 27:42)
- “What the AI won’t do is ask the right question...that’s not a bad thing.” (Michael Lewis, 30:44)
- “What’s scandalous is not what’s illegal, it’s what’s legal.” (Michael Lewis, 34:01)
- “I have to plan it very carefully in advance. And then ... it moves very fast, and it’s very clean.” (Michael Lewis, 39:17)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 04:13 – Start of Michael Lewis interview
- 07:13 – The Michael Burry story and pre-Reddit message boards
- 09:39 – Meme stocks vs. value investing: Social media’s impact
- 11:04 – Would 2008 have been different with today’s social media?
- 14:40 – Bubbles, fraud and personal defensive investing
- 16:21 – Lewis describes investing in gold and defensive assets
- 20:40 – Political incentives, crypto, and currency risk
- 22:17 – Wall Street incentives: Lessons from The Big Short
- 23:08 – Private credit and systemic risks
- 25:37 – Consumer leverage ("Buy now, pay later" and inequality)
- 27:20 – Lessons for young investors
- 29:51 – AI’s impact on financial analysis and jobs
- 33:24 – 2008 accountability and legal challenges
- 36:42 – Lewis describes his writing process
- 39:17 – Reflections on audiobooks and current projects
- 40:29 – New Against the Rules podcast season
Tone
Candid, insightful, and often humorous, Lewis provides sharp critiques and well-illustrated analogies, while Ann Berry’s hosting is informed and engaging, encouraging deep, accessible discussion.
For listeners:
Whether you’re looking for macro-level lessons, insights into writing, or a sense of how 2008 continues to echo through today’s markets, this episode offers essential food for thought.