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- [00:00]
Ann Barry
Many employees can't afford a hefty medical bill that pops up out of the blue. But it happens. And employees who are financially stressed are understandably more likely to be distracted at work, costing their employers greatly in lost productivity. Luckily, Aflac plans help with out of pocket expenses not covered by health insurance and can be offered at no direct cost to businesses. Learn more@aflac.com Frumarkets that's aflac.com Frumarkets
- [00:27]
John Croteau
Bitcoin down 50% from last year's highs, down another 3% today and sits down with one money mover to get some clarity on just what is going on with crypto and Walmart goes shopping. We have the latest on the retailer Kuhntech Company's latest acquisition that strengthens its push into advertising and a tech sell off is rippling around the world. Might it serve as a reality check to retail investors? Recent AI euphoria We break it all down for Tuesday, June 23rd. It's Brew Markets Daily and I'm John Croteau. Picture. More market details to come. But first, is it a tech sell off or a slight cooling of a recent AI run? Today's trading session kicked off with a route of big tech names, initially sending the NASDAQ down 3%. The chip sector was hit hard, AMD down 6%, intel down 4%. Broadcalm and Nvidia both down 3% this morning. And amid the selling frenzy is a specific focus on memory chips in the AI trade, with memory Megas, Sandisk, Western Digital and Micron all trading down 10%. Today, we woke up to futures in the red. Inspired by developments overnight in South Korea's markets. The South Korean Kospi, the country's primary benchmark index, had plunged 10%, its steepest drop in more than three months. South Korean memory chip giants SK Hynix and Samsung Electronics both saw their shares sink over 12%. The the drop so severe it even triggered an automatic 20 minute trading halt. Of course we talk about concerns over concentration and our domestic indexes, but Korea's is far more extreme. The index uses a market cap weighted System and together SK Hynix and Samsung represent over 50% of the index's total market cap, which is why the recent run up of those companies had the index soaring up 95% this year and recently trading at record highs. Yesterday's KOSPI selloff was likely triggered by regulatory caution, with South Korea's Financial Supervisory Service admitting it had been too hasty and approving some of the investment tools that helped fuel the boom, such as leveraged ETFs here at home, memory chip makers are also coming off of record highs, driven by easing geopolitical tensions, solid earnings and a recent revival in the AI trade. In fact, just last Thursday, before the Friday holiday, all the memory chip makers I mentioned earlier, Sandisk, Western Digital, Micron plus Seagate, all hit record highs. One analyst writing that storage demand remains critical across nearly every technological trend. Well, tomorrow all eyes will be on memory chip maker Micron, one of a dozen or so companies with a market cap over $1 trillion. Micron is expected to release earnings which will give investors a temperature check on just how strong the demand for memory remains. And we will be watching. Coming up in a moment, a spin through some of the headlines that are moving markets today, including choppy seas ahead for Carnival Cruise Lines and a new vision for Vizio TVs. But first, this episode is brought to you by Aflac.
- [03:27]
Avani Laroya
John, do you have a good imagination?
- [03:29]
John Croteau
I do. Right now I'm picturing a cat wearing a beret.
- [03:31]
Avani Laroya
Well, imagine a fellow worker who's distracted because of an unexpected thousand dollars bill. That distraction can translate to lost productivity, which costs companies a lot of money annually.
- [03:41]
John Croteau
Enter Aflac. They offer plans that come at no direct cost to employers. And when payroll deductions are pre tax, it may provide potential tax savings. Plus, Aflac aims to pay claims fast, accurately and fairly. For find out more@aflac.com BrewMarkets In a moment, Ann's Money Mover segment is all about crypto and how institutional investors could redefine the industry. But first, spin through other headlines from today's trading session with the help of our associate producer Avani. Kick us off Avani.
- [04:09]
Avani Laroya
Well, shares in Walmart ticker WMT are up nearly 2% today after an announcement that the retailer has agreed to buy Vibeco in an effort to expand its connected television advertising business.
- [04:20]
John Croteau
For years, Walmart had the distinction of being the world's largest retailer. We've also talked about its transformation into a tech company recently moving to the Nasdaq. And what is under discussed is that Walmart is also an advertising business. It's one of its fastest growing segments. The company's last major deal was in 2024 when it bought smart TV maker Vizio for $2.3 billion. I already owned a Vizio TV that I bought at Costco, not at Walmart. And suddenly there was a new set of terms and conditions I had to agree to to continue using the smart features on that television. Walmart wanted my data and they wanted access for ads to me. Now Walmart is converting Vizio into a private label brand sold exclusively in Walmart and Sam's Club stores.
- [05:05]
Avani Laroya
Well, in the press release about the Vibe code deal, a Walmart exec highlighted quote, more customers are discovering brands while watching TV shows and then turning to their Walmart app to look at various items.
- [05:16]
John Croteau
Of course, Walmart is still a retailer and this week marks the relatively new summer holiday spending season called Deal Days along with Amazon's Prime Day and other promotions by Best Buy and Target. It's June, my nieces and nephews are still taking their final exams in high school. But customer competition is so fierce these companies are already trying to capture those back to school dollars. And later this week on the show, I talk with an Amazon executive about about these sales events and the ongoing competition with Walmart including the grocery wars moving from sales to the high seas. Shares in Carnival Cruise line ticker CCL are down over 5% today. In another case of beat the quarter
- [06:00]
Avani Laroya
but miss the future, the cruise operator cut its revenue outlook for the year. The war has weighed on booking activity, particularly in Mediterranean cruises and also drove up fuel prices.
- [06:10]
John Croteau
All right, let's round it out with a leadership change at the world's largest pizza company. Talking about Domino's ticker DPZ. Shares there trading around 2 1/2% lower today after the company announced that come October its current CEO will hand over the mozzarella reins to a 15 year company veteran, Joe Jordan.
- [06:29]
Avani Laroya
The problems for the pizza sector persist, largely trailing the broader restaurant industry since 2017. Domino's stock is down almost 40% over the last five years. And of course last week Yum Brands announced that it will sell Pizza Hut brand to a private equity firm. And Papa John's has also considered potentially take private buyers.
- [06:48]
John Croteau
I think it's hilarious that the future of all these pizza companies is in flux because there's an ad from Domino's running right now where they say for 7.99 you can get a carry out pizza and that deal, don't rush for it, is good for tomorrow, it's good for next week, it's good for next month, is good for next year. So if I didn't know my future, I'd also say yeah, this deal is good for a long time so we'll be keeping an eye on that. Well, it's money mover day and today's conversation is about crypto. For years, bitcoin advocates have called the cryptocurrency digital gold, a store of value that could eventually sit alongside the most traditional assets in a portfolio. Others have looked to Main street adoption as the path to more fluid use as a means of exchange. But the narratives around Bitcoin's growth have been tested of late with bitcoin losing nearly half its value since hitting an all time high last October and sitting today at around 62,000. To get some context on this disconnect and invited Les Borsay onto the show. Les is the co founder of Wave, an SEC registered investment advisor focused entirely on digital assets. The firm has moved over $1 billion in assets under management since its founding in 2018. Les argues that Bitcoin is still in its early stages of evolution and and that investors shouldn't judge it against mature gold, itself volatile at periods in its own history. They explore Moody's first ever rating on a bitcoin collateralized bond and why the long anticipated Clarity act continues to stall in Washington. It is a very timely conversation and less gives us a fresh perspective.
- [08:20]
Ann Barry
Les Paul, say thank you very much for joining and you're joining at such a critical moment because we need you to answer the question that so many investors have been asking.
- [08:28]
Avani Laroya
Why?
- [08:29]
Ann Barry
What is going on with Bitcoin? This is supposed to be Bitcoin's time. This was supposed to be the administration that was supporting the rise in crypto that we're going to see legislation that provided Clarity that meant crypto infrastructure could build out. But yet here we are. Bitcoin has, has down, down significantly over the last 12 months and over year to date. So what's going on?
- [08:49]
Les Borsay
So I think, you know, what we're hearing in the market is resources are being shifted into other investments right now and there's a lot of activity with AI and AI IPOs. So a lot of money is coming out of cryptocurrency going into these other kind of financial instruments. But that's not really my answer. I think the answer that I have is no one really knows what's ever going on with digital currencies. And having been in the space so long, since 2013, we've just seen so many kind of different aspects impact the market, whether it was massive bankruptcies. For a minute we heard that Michael Saylor liquidating bitcoin impacted the market. And I just think if you're in a currency that is incredibly volatile, you're going to see volatility. I don't know that anyone has the real answer of why this is happening. But you made another good point. The government has an impact on what things are happening out there and, and Clarity is struggling. So that probably also has an impact.
- [09:55]
Ann Barry
But let's break this down because you've been in crypto for a long time and you know, there are different purposes of crypto, different purposes of bitcoin over time. So just for our investors and our audience, you know, for a long time bitcoin was being called digital gold. And the idea was that gold is a store of value. So at times of inflation, you expect to see demand for gold to go up. So, so similarly, when we saw inflation come up, folks looked at bitcoin and said, it's supposed to be a store of value. We expect the value of bitcoin to go up. Now, gold broke numerous records in 2025 multiple times. Bitcoin hasn't done that. So what does that tell us, in your opinion, about where bitcoin is as an inflation hedge, which is something it was touted as for a long time?
- [10:38]
Les Borsay
Well, I still think it's digital gold. But you know, going back to gold, you know, during the 70s, you know, well into the 80s, gold was incredibly volatile as well. It took gold a lot longer than it is taking bitcoin to come out of being a risk asset and more of a safe haven asset. So when I look at gold, I still believe that it is exactly that. And the reason I believe that is it's a digital reserve product. It's the Federal Digital Reserve. And we have legislation passing in all the states, you know, New Hampshire being the first one. You know, we see an RFP out for Texas right now. And it's all about digital reserves. So that's why bitcoin is what it is. And to your other point, you know, with alternative currencies, you know, we'll see how many of them survive. But you know, if we take a look at defi and some of the things that are also, you know, tokenization, real world assets, you know, predicated on ETH and the platform, we're going to see different tokens survive. Maybe not all of them because there's so many that have their purposes. And I think the winners will come to the top, but I think it's just going to take time for bitcoin to really kind of solidify into that. And here's the other point with that. When we think about the products that we've seen in traditional finance markets so far, a lot of it's on the equity side. It's ETFs, it's, you know, we're seeing stables integrate right now, but we haven't even seen, you know, the Fixed markets open up with this. The debt markets open up with this. So a lot of traditional markets that are much greater haven't adopted digital currencies yet. We're at the beginning phases. Out of 32 states that have passed legislation for digital reserves, very few have. So real adoption, you know, doesn't come just from blackrock and, you know, an aspect of federal government that hasn't even passed clarity yet.
- [12:33]
Ann Barry
Well, it makes sense, at least to me, just that debt markets haven't gotten there yet with Bitcoin because you naturally would expect lenders to be more reserved, to be more conservative. And I'm sure that the debt players are looking at the volatility they're seeing on the equity inside and saying that doesn't really lend itself necessarily to the sort of the debt instruments that, that you've seen in the traditional markets. I just. Before we go to, to the debt markets and other sources of potential demand, which I do want to go to, I just want to continue on to talk a bit more about Bitcoin specifically as the poster child, are emblematic of what's going on with cryp. And tell me what you think, Les, about whether we are now seeing a stronger and stronger correlation between cryptocurrencies and tech stocks. You sort of said it right at the top. You said that people are pulling their money out of, you know, the AI out of Bitcoin. Excuse me, to fund investments in the AI trade. If you roll back the clock five years ago, I don't think that correlation or the inverse correlation was quite as strong. So what do you think's going on there?
- [13:30]
Les Borsay
I mean, look, at the end of the day, digital currencies are tech. And I mean, if you take a look at a lot of the Silicon Valley companies that have invested in the currency space, their DNA is tech. I mean, you take a look at Solana, these companies. I mean, even Bitcoin. Bitcoin was an answer to subprime when everything kind of went wrong to take out that central authority. And it was built as tech. Ether is computer money, programmable money,
- [14:01]
Ann Barry
in
- [14:01]
Les Borsay
terms of what it's meant to do. So, I mean, I think there's just a natural correlation anyway. But I think Bitcoin will eventually stand on its own. As you said, it was more of a safe haven asset as virtual gold.
- [14:17]
Ann Barry
Well, it's not my words. It's been described that, yes, in parts of the market. So we've talked about Bitcoin or crypto as a store of value. We've talked about it as A potential inflation hedge and what's proven out. Let's talk about it as medium of exchange, right? This is. We're talking about the aspects of the currency, the nature of a currency. What have we seen over the Last sort of 18 months? Less when it comes to the more mainstream adoption of crypto as a medium of exchange rate. What's going on there? Where are we in that lifecycle?
- [14:49]
Les Borsay
You know, I have a harder time with that. I mean, again, being in crypto for a long time, the things that I saw that were great about crypto, maybe bitcoin is, you know, micro lending or. Yeah, let's make it even simpler than that. There are a lot of folks in foreign countries that haven't been able to get money in the same way others do. And crypto was really, really great for that. And stables, for instance, like tether being sent to Africa where people could not get money, they were able to get money. And it's also happening in areas where there's conflict right now in the world. I know in Ukraine, crypto was a big aspect to getting money into the Ukraine. I mean, let's really sum it up to what it is. I mean, it's a way to deliver currency peer to peer without a central authority and doing it much faster than the traditional finance models have done. And I think the bigger story is I don't come from this place where I think crypto is going to change everything in traditional finance. Traditional finance is well established and it's very large. I think they're going to take certain aspects. They'll take aspects like stables and real world tokenization and they'll start to adopt pieces of it and integrate it into the fabric of what traditional finance is today. But I'm not one of those guys that believes bitcoin is going to replace the dollar. I'm not one of those guys that think I want to go spend my Bitcoin in a 7 11. I really do look at. I mean, I don't take a brick of gold and buy a Pepsi. It's just. I don't look at it that way.
- [16:25]
John Croteau
So good, so good. So good.
- [16:27]
Ann Barry
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- [16:52]
John Croteau
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- [17:17]
Ann Barry
So last time I had a very meaty conversation about crypto was with Paul Grail, who's the chief legal officer over at Coinbase Les and I had that conversation right as the Clarity act was coming to the fore. There was a lot of optimism and hope that things were about to change. Give us the update on what's going on with the Clarity act at the moment. Where is it at?
- [17:36]
Les Borsay
I mean, it feels stalled again. And, you know, every time they get to a place where I feel like it's going to go through, you know, there's opposition around it. And, you know, the part that really kills me is, and I've learned a lot about this, you know, having spent time in Washington, is how politicized everything is when at the end of the day, you know, advancement of digital currencies can be a good thing for people. And I think that's the part that they're missing. If you take a look at, you know, what the federal government is holding in digital currencies and what the states are holding, I mean, we could reapply those digital currencies that have been forfeited, for instance, to things like education, homelessness. We can reapply that to pensions that are underfunded in, I don't know, 20 states. And it just sits there because there's not a good understanding of it. And my true belief is things like Clarity stall because of political narratives. And at the end of the day, they also stall because I think a lot of the leadership that doesn't understand it, it's a lot easier to attack it. So, you know, I hope it goes through, but it should have been through by now, like the CFTC and sec. That's another issue. You know, who's going to be the regulatory authority here? You know, is it going to be a commodity? Is it going to be the cftc? And I think that's the most exciting part of the whole story. When you see guys like Chairman Selleck coming in talking about, you know, prediction markets, I mean, this is a new government. You know, when you have Paul Atkins, you know, being supportive and you have, you know, Besant being supportive, I Mean, this is not a world that I understood when I was younger. You know, you have a lot of crypto forward people in this administration, right?
- [19:19]
Ann Barry
So you've just said something really interesting, that we do have an administration where to use your words, a lot of crypto forward people. That is a change, right? So you would say that one condition has changed to the benefit of crypto. So what else do we have to believe for it to turn the corner? Do we need to see a crack in tech valuations if there's a substitution from one to the other? Do we need to see the Clarity act go through so that folks like pension funds or debt market players get more confidence? What are the catalysts we need to see happening now, given that one that's so critical, which is the administration's in place?
- [19:50]
Les Borsay
You know, I hate talking about things that I've worked on and visions I've had because I hate self promotion more than anything in the world. But I'll just talk about this in a general way. You know, the debt market requires. So pensions and insurance companies, municipalities to buy financial instruments have mandates. And those mandates are ratings. The big change that is going to come is rating agencies, you know, providing ratings to these financial instruments and institutions buying them because of the rating. If we look at the executive order that very clearly, you know, wants retirement funds and pensions to take exposure, well, they can't until those ratings happen. And I'm telling you, those ratings are happening now.
- [20:31]
Ann Barry
Why are they happening now?
- [20:32]
Les Borsay
Les, that's a self serving answer. I don't want to do.
- [20:36]
Ann Barry
And you know, but it's a real question. You're saying it's happening now is why and what's the.
- [20:41]
Les Borsay
I'll give you now. Yeah, I'll give you the answer. Because someone took the time to go and create the methodology for it to happen. And you had rating agencies open to that process. And that process took just about a year and a half. And if you have a methodology that can evaluate the value of Bitcoin and you're utilizing it as collateral to create financial instruments, then there's a rating attached. And that means people can take exposure because now you have a safe instrument.
- [21:10]
Ann Barry
And who's doing the rating? Is it the Moody's and the.
- [21:13]
Les Borsay
Yeah, it's Moody's. I mean, this has been in the press. Moody's rated the first bitcoin collateralized bond. It's a double B rating. Obviously the goal is to get to investment grade, but that opens up the door to all sorts of derivatives. The debt market's 140 trillion. We take a look at crypto on its best day was around 3 trillion. So the idea, or the way I see it, is for the real adoption to happen in the market, to really open up to this exciting place, we have to have that middle step. And what that means is explaining to folks in traditional finance that it's just another asset that has volume, liquidity. How do you deal with things like insolvency? And we've done that with lots of assets over time. So if you can bridge those two worlds, that's when we start to see real adoption at scale. And it just takes time and process to do it.
- [22:09]
Ann Barry
And so, again, what would be the catalyst for those things taking place?
- [22:14]
Les Borsay
Someone doing it. And, you know, that can be one person that eventually leads to lots of people getting involved. So what we're going to see is investment banks starting to issue these products. You know, these are structures that are rated and not individual companies. So they're financial instruments that can be repurposed, and the rating goes with it if it's using the same methodology. And I think what we'll see is more of these products eventually come, and they're global products. So that's the significance of cryptocurrency being kind of a global currency. We haven't seen it at this scale. So when that starts to happen, I think that's when we'll start to see the value increase and rating. Also, really, when you take a look at how thoughtful Moody's was, for instance, in that process, they went through everything over and over and over and over again just to understand what the asset class is. And I think that's what's missing with, you know, a lot of the politicians and clarity. They don't take the painstaking time to understand all of this nuanced detail of what these instruments are.
- [23:20]
Ann Barry
So, Les, last question for you. Look into your crystal ball for us, if you don't mind. We're looking at a summer that may see another block, another blockbuster ipo. We may see anthropic come out. Question as to whether we see OpenAI come out as well. If what has been a recent trend continues, that would imply ongoing pressure on crypto. If the trend you've just described, which is folks selling out of crypto in order to fund tech stock purchases. So what's your prediction? I think if I were to piece together what you said, some bumpiness near term. But if you look ahead to next year, for example, let's go a bit further out. Where do you think bitcoin's going to end up.
- [23:59]
Les Borsay
I have a different answer for that, as I often do. I'm old and I was around for the first Internet boom and not every company succeeded. The Netscapes of the world might have not AOL to a certain degree or there are a ton of those companies that didn't succeed, but there was Google and there was other companies that came out of that Internet boom to do really well. I think we're going to see the same thing in digital currencies. Bitcoin will succeed, some of the other alternative currencies and platforms will succeed and they'll just continue to grow. And I think when we talk about back to the correlation between digital currencies and technology, well, who's to say that AI won't integrate digital currencies? Of course it will. The same way we've seen apps integrate digital currencies. And what that means is we will just see those AI technologies move faster utilizing digital currencies. That's my prediction.
- [25:00]
Ann Barry
Les will say thank you for joining. Appreciate your time.
- [25:03]
Les Borsay
Thank you.
- [25:05]
John Croteau
Well, it's 4pm on the east Coast. The markets are wrapping up for the day with the S&P 500 finishing down 1 and 4, 10 of a percent, the Dow down a tenth of a percent, and the NASDAQ hit by that tech sell off down over 2%. Well, yesterday on the show we covered Getty Image's deal with OpenAI, which sent shares in the visual media company up over 90%. Well, today the Getty stock price retreated, falling back nearly 20%, which gives us one more excuse to share a Getty stock photo of the Einstein of Wall street on the trading floor, head in hand, reacting to the trading day that was. And that's all for today's Brew Markets Daily. Brew Markets Daily is hosted by Anne Barry and produced by John Croteau, Tarkab Delatif, Avni Laroya and Emily Millern. Our technical director is Uchena Waugu. Brittany Dotako is our audio engineer. Catering by Dahmen Yeses. And the president of Morning Bre is Devin Emery. Wake up tomorrow with the Morning Brew newsletter and tune in to Neil and Toby on Morning Brew Daily. We'll see you back here same time, same place, tomorrow with a guest appearance by none other than Toby himself.
- [26:18]
Ann Barry
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