← Brian Kilmeade Show
Loading summary
Transcript38 lines
- [00:00]
Brian Kilmeade
This Memorial Day as America approaches the 25th anniversary of 9 11, the Tunnel to Towers foundation paid off the mortgages on 26 homes for gold Star families and families of fallen first responders across 13 states. In tribute to the 343 FDNY firefighters lost on 9 11, Tunnel to Towers has committed to delivering 343 mortgage free homes this year. Their courage will never be forgotten. Join us donate $11 a month at t2t.org expedia and visit Scotland.
- [00:35]
Expedia/VisitScotland Announcer
Invite you to come experience the beauty that awaits in Scotland. The sweep of wild coastlines, quiet locks and untamed landscapes. Fresh cuisine that feels rooted in the land. Come experience the kind of stage illness that stays with you long after you leave. Plan your Scottish escape today@expedia.com VisitScotland Joining
- [01:03]
Mary Walter
us is Jonathan Alpert. He is a therapist. He's the author of Therapy Nation, How America Got Hooked on Therapy and why It's Left Us More Anxious and Divided. You can find him on Exit, Jonathan Alpert with a T. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining me.
- [01:21]
Jonathan Alpert
Mary, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.
- [01:24]
Mary Walter
This is great because I will tell you, I'm a big fan of therapy. I think everybody needs it because everybody's messed up in their own little way. We all got our baggage. Then when we have problems later in life, we can't figure out why. I think everybody needs a little bit of therapy. But as you point out, you point out something that I didn't realize. We have had so much therapy as a nation that people now talk like they're therapists all the time. People will psychoanalyze you on x based from 88 words you put together in a sentence. And I personally blame Dr. Phil and Oprah for this phenomenon. But why does everyone now think, are we, are we not all running around like little mini psychotherapists?
- [02:07]
Jonathan Alpert
I know. Isn't it annoying when people say, my therapist says, I feel like those are the most annoying words anyone can utter. But yeah, Dr. Phil and Oprah certainly brought this into modern culture. But that seems like a long time ago at this point. And now we therapists who I believe are putting this nonsense out there, they're really quick to diagnose people. They're pathologizing ordinary life experiences. So let's say you had a bad day at work or a fight with your boyfriend. Suddenly that becomes pathologic bad day or two. Oh, you must be depressed. Boyfriend's acting like a jerk. Well, he must be a narcissist. Girlfriend's acting a little strange, she must be borderline. So therapists are very quick to label and they're putting this out there and then enter into the mix. Social media, you have these so called influencers who are putting out checklists, you know, five things to look for to know if you're, if you have ADHD or you're depressed. And people are very, very quick to accept that and then self diagnose. And you know, we have therapy culture that's just everywhere. And that's part of why I named the Buck Therapy Nation.
- [03:25]
Mary Walter
It's so interesting because I did not put two and two together until I started reading about your book and your theory. And it just suddenly all clicked and made so much sense to me. And I just thought people, the left was, they're a little wacky. So I just thought that they were the ones who were running around doing this, but it's not. But we hear buzzwords now like my truth, my. Well, my truth. And I'm sitting here thinking to myself, there's no such thing as your truth. The truth is the truth. And I think this all goes back to therapy. And we, I think a part of it is a combination of like I said, Dr. Phil and Oprah and we put it on TV and everybody, you know, parades their illness, you know, mental illnesses on, on TV and it makes them a star and they get, they get affirmation for it. We started to like normalize all this stuff and made it normal to just put it out there. And I think we've kind of, it's
- [04:22]
Jonathan Alpert
almost like people, it's almost like people wear this as a badge of honor.
- [04:26]
Mary Walter
Yes.
- [04:27]
Jonathan Alpert
I would argue that we should be striving for health and wellness and good sound mental health, not, you know, being proud of our mental illness, whether that's depression or anxiety or more severe disorders. And just to be clear, there are a lot of very good therapists out there and it is a good thing that there's more awareness of mental health and less of a stigma. And maybe we do have Oprah to thank for that. And that's a good thing. But that doesn't mean that we should be celebrating our mental health or, I'm sorry, our mental health and illnesses. You know, we should try to be healthier and optimize that and not wear this like a badge of honor and run around with, you know, a million different diagnoses. I've heard of patients who come in to me and they talk about their prior therapy where they've become so expert at knowing Everything that's wrong with them going back to their childhood, their diaper days. They can name every issue that they were ever presented with and every problem that their parents may have caused. And they go to therapy week after week after week. And they can rehearse this stuff so easily. But they're stuck. They're not any healthier, they're not happier, they're not any more fulfilled in their lives yet. They've been to therapy for decades and it's a complete, utter, colossal waste of money if you're not actually improving.
- [06:01]
Mary Walter
So I think there's a lot of things as I started to think more about this, because you totally took me down a rabbit hole last night, and I hope you're happy. I think that I see a lot of things co. Coalescing here. Colliding, coalescing. Whatever the word is I'm looking for because I'm old, is that, you know, we have also have a younger generation that had no obstacles in their life. They don't know how to deal with any kind of adversity. So they're. They feel that their lives are the worst and everything is about them. There's a lot of central character, main character things going on out there. And with this idea of like, we incentivize illness both mentally and physically. So if your kid has ADD or ADHD or whatever it happens to be, that kid gets more time to take tests, that kid gets all special things. And your kid is special and the kid, it feels special. And everybody wants in on the game, it seems, because everybody has the. Has the look at me syndrome. Right. I think everybody's got this look at me thing, which is why we see people screaming and yelling in parking lots and Walmart and somebody's got a camera filming them and they lose their minds. There's no self control anymore with all of this therapy. Nobody has any self control. And it just doesn't seem to make sense.
- [07:21]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And one of the original titles that we played around with for this book was it's not all about you. And that really spoke to just the massive self absorption and the accommodation culture that I think you're referring to, where people get a pass, they get notes from their therapists for everything. If you need extended time on your test, if you're feeling blue that day, you can stay out of work. So we've really created. My profession is largely responsible for this, creating this fragility in our society. And there are such things as bad days and even bad weeks and that doesn't mean that you're depressed. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you need to have a mental health day either. This having a bad day and having some mishaps in life, that's how we build character and strength and how we learn and grow as a person. But if we're constantly being accommodated and patted on the back and made to feel special and never confront it, we're going to stay stuck and we're not going to grow individually and as a society. And that's a real concern of mine as a mental health practitioner.
- [08:41]
Mary Walter
Yeah, no, absolutely. Good for you for being able to call out your own profession and say, wait a minute, I think we have a problem here. We're gonna take a quick break on the other side. I want to talk to you about that and how we turned that around because you've got an entire generation now that you know, as you said, can go to the doctor. And they my husband's a physician and he says these people, I don't have anyone under 45 who comes in who is not depressed or has anxiety like they all got, they're all depressed and anxious and most of them don't have a diagnosis. So we'll talk about that coming back. And also I want to talk to you about TDS as well. I am so into this. Like I said, you took me down such a rabbit hole last night. Our guest is Jonathan Alpert. He's a therapist and the author of Therapy Nation. Follow him on X at Jonathan Alpert. More coming up on the Brian Kilmeade Show.
- [09:26]
Brian Kilmeade
It's Brian Kilmeade.
- [09:28]
Tax Relief Advocates Announcer
We've all heard the radio ads about the irs. They tell you to be afraid and they try to frighten you into calling. I'm here to tell you that Tax Relief Advocates is different if you owe money to the IRS, whether it's $5,000, $50,000 or $500,000, Tra has a solution to your tax problem. It doesn't matter if you're sitting in your car at work or with your kids, no matter where you are, visit tra.com don't lose hope. TRA could reduce or even eliminate what you owe to the irs. Their passion is taxes and helping individuals and businesses familiar fix their IRS problems. They have over a thousand five star Google reviews and an A with the Better Business Bureau. You don't need to be afraid of the IRS any longer. Generous tax relief programs are now available that can give you a fresh start. So don't wait. Simply visit tra.com. that's tra.com or call 800-583-5675. Once again, that's 800-583-5675. Tax relief advocates real solutions for real people.
- [10:34]
Collars and Company Announcer
Hi everyone, it's Brian Kilmeade here. Are you tired of those uncomfortable dress shirts, especially when they bunch up under a sweater? If so, then you must check out Collars and company, makers of the dress collar Polo. Listen up. These shirts are four way stretch, buttery soft polos with firm dress collars on them so they give you the dress shirt look but extremely comfortable polo feel. You can wear them with anything under a sweater, with a blazer or by themselves as an elevated polo. They work for any occasion. These poles are perfect whether it's in the office, on a golf course or a night out. Collars and company is exploding and have gone viral on social media thanks to the 1 million investment they received on Shark Tank from Mark Cuban and Peter Jones. You don't have to worry about collars that flop down and spread out. They stay firm and sharp all day. It's an amazing array of sweaters, quarter zips, pants and outerwear. If you're looking for the performance dress shirt or polo that looks great all day, check out collars and co.com use promo code Brian for 15% off of any purchase of $100 or more. That's promo code Brian,
- [11:42]
Brian Kilmeade
the talk show that's getting you talking. You're with Brian Kilmeade.
- [11:49]
Mary Walter
Mary Walter for Brian Kilmeade. Our guest is Jonathan Alpert. He's a therapist and the author of Therapy Nation. And how maybe a little bit too much therap has left us very divided and very anxious and very depressed and having a lot of problems, or at least we think we have a lot of problems. Jonathan, we were talking before the break about how you look at your own industry and you say, I think we kind of did this to ourselves. We're the people who created this problem. If so, how do you pull it back?
- [12:21]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah, that's a really good question. And some people may argue that it's a business issue where if you get people better and graduate from therapy, then you lose business. And that may be true, but at the same time, the goal should be to help the person and get them better and then rely on word of mouth to get new people. I'm not so sure therapists are fully like consciously doing that. I think they just think therapy should be a lifelong activity. For some people it's become just that. It's Become almost like a lifestyle where they go in week after week, vent, get stuff off their chest, and it feels good in the moment, and then they do it all over again in six or seven days. So there's a big difference between feeling good and actually getting better. And I talked about this in a 2012 New York Times op ed piece that I wrote called In Therapy Forever Enough Already. And I talked about how people do just that. They go in, they vent, they get things off their chest, and they feel good, but then they don't really learn how to actually address their issues and move on from them. And people are stuck in therapy. And I think if we can get back to a place where we establish very clear and concrete goals from day one and then come up with a strategy to reach them, that might be a good start to.
- [13:51]
Mary Walter
Yeah, I think it's lifelong therapy. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I think it's incumbent upon the therapist to set those boundaries and say to somebody, okay, we're good. You don't need me anymore. Because it's kind of like taking a wooby away from a kid, you know, like, you don't need the blankie anymore, honey. You can. You can go out and conquer kindergarten all on your own. And maybe to your point, though, it is a money issue, is it is at that point because they don't want to lose that income. I got somebody on the hook for life.
- [14:24]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah, there is that consideration. And I think for some patients, you know, establish some goals, work on getting better for a couple months or six months, eight months, whatever it is, and then maybe go back for a refresher session every couple months. And I have plenty of patients who do just that. They might check in with me once a quarter just to. Just to make sure everything's okay. Or if something comes comes up in their life, they may see me for a few sessions. But to have this dependence on your therapist and feel like you need to consult them for every issue in your life. I mean, I've even heard of people consulting their therapist when they don't know what type of gift they should get a friend or a loved one, to me, that's absolutely ridiculous. I've also heard of people running to the therapist because they get stressed out over pimple. I would argue this isn't good use of therapy.
- [15:19]
Mary Walter
I would also argue it's a very expensive use of therapy as well.
- [15:23]
Jonathan Alpert
There's that, too. Especially when pimples usually go away on their own in a day or two.
- [15:29]
Mary Walter
True, Very true. I want to switch gears here, and I want to talk a little bit about TDS, and I want to go to cut 19, Eric. I want to go to the View. Dun, dun, dun. And this is just such an example of tds, which I believe is real and alive and thriving. And this is Joy Behar on the View. Listen, talking about Trump, RX and Mark Cuban being involved in Trump RX and Mark Cuban, of course, being a never Trumper. He was shilled for Kamala. Listen to Joy Behar.
- [16:02]
Jonathan Alpert
But even he came around, right?
- [16:04]
Mary Walter
Well, listen to Joy Behar here.
- [16:05]
Joy Behar
You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. All right? And you know, I like Mark Cuban. I've always liked him. But this is a. This is a mistake. And once. Once Trump puts his name on prescriptions, we're all going to d. Okay, yeah, he put his name on the Trump Shuttle, the Trump Vodka, the Trump University, Trump Hotel, and my favorite, the casinos that all went bankrupt. Yeah, the drugs go there.
- [16:29]
Mary Walter
The drugs don't actually have his name. They're existing drugs.
- [16:32]
Joy Behar
He's involved with it.
- [16:35]
Mary Walter
So you heard, you've heard Alyssa Farah Griffin try to jump in there, go, well, the drugs don't have his name. They're existing drugs. And Behar didn't want to hear any facts. It doesn't matter. He's involved with it. I can't have anything to do with it. Is TDS real?
- [16:49]
Jonathan Alpert
Well, it's interesting because, you know, Trump was also responsible for fast tracking the vaccine for Covid during his first term. And I've long said that Trump could go on and cure cancer and people would still find a reason to discredit him or to hate him. As far as tds, I've made it very clear that it doesn't actually exist. We don't have a diagnosis in the DSM called tds. But as a therapist, I've been very, very concerned about what I'm seeing in a lot of patients and what we see when we just look at news. Like we just looked at that clip in the View where people are obsessed with Trump, they're highly anxious with all matters related to Trump. They've become fixated on Trump. They can't sleep at night because of Trump. So this looks a lot like other disorders that are actual disorders in the dsm. So I've made it a point to say it doesn't exist. But, you know, this is what I'm seeing. And we should be concerned if you can't take a vacation because you're so upset that Trump is in office, you've got some serious problems. And I've seen that with people. Or if you're hoping and wishing Trump dead because you don't like his policy or even like him as a person, that's a problem. Or if you're disappointed that the shooter didn't have better aim in Butler, you've got a serious, profound mental health problem. And this is what I'm really concerned about.
- [18:27]
Mary Walter
Yeah. Now, I know that HHS Secretary RFK Jr. Was on with Adam Carolla and he said that he does believe that TDS is real. And he says his staff is looking into actually developing an ICD code to make it a legit syndrome. Because to your point, these people are. It's. It's Trump.
- [18:52]
Joy Behar
Trump. Trump.
- [18:52]
Mary Walter
Trump. Trump. There's videos of people in California saying they're not going to vote for Spencer Pratt because he's Republican and they hate Trump. Do you think that's the right thing?
- [19:01]
Jonathan Alpert
Well, I would be happy to speak to RFK Jr about this and provide my experience working with countless patients. And I do think there is something to it and we do need to look into it. You have to wonder what happens once Trump is out of office in a few years? Will these people have TDS 2.0? Will they just move on to Rubio or Vance or whoever the candidate is? I think to step back a bit. The left, some people on the left, they need a villain. They need someone to hate. They need someone to blame all their problems on. And we saw this play out with the Luigi Mangione nonsense where, you know, this is grievance culture. You know, people need someone to blame. And right now it's Trump. People will fixate on him and blame all their issues on Trump. So I don't know, you know, I don't know what's going to happen. I think we could see maybe some sort of disorder that doesn't the Trump name in it, but maybe a political preoccupation disorder would be something that the people.
- [20:15]
Mary Walter
Yeah. Jonathan, I don't mean to cut you short, but we gotta run. Check out the book Therapy Nation. I'm telling you, it is fantastic. Like I said, went down a total rabbit hole. Thank you so much for joining me here on the Brian Kilmeade.
- [20:35]
Expedia/VisitScotland Announcer
With American Home Shield. You can now video chat with live repair experts for help with home fixes over the phone. American Home Shield. Don't worry, be warranty. Visit ahs.com listen for 20% off any
- [20:46]
Jonathan Alpert
plan available as a benefit with select plans.