Julian Epstein: Centrist Democrats Are Fleeing the Socialist Left

Summary

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Brian Kilmeade Show – Episode Summary:

Julian Epstein: Centrist Democrats Are Fleeing the Socialist Left
June 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the increasing influence of socialist and far-left ideologies within the Democratic Party. Host Brian Kilmeade and guest Julian Epstein, former chief counsel for the House Judiciary Committee, discuss the implications for the future of the party and American politics, highlighting recent primary challenges, the left’s shifting stance on Israel, and the intra-party debates about identity and policy. The conversation also touches on notable personal scandals, Democratic hypocrisy in messaging, and a critique of the Biden administration’s handling of presidential succession.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise of Socialism Within the Democratic Party

• Kilmeade expresses concern over the growing socialist wing primarying moderate Democrats, using New York’s Dan Goldman as an example (00:00).
• Asserts that being pro-Israel, even as a Democrat, is now a political liability among the rising left-wing:

  “What’s killing Dan Goldman? That he’s pro Israel, not even pro Netanyahu. He’s pro Israel. Think about that.” – Brian Kilmeade, (00:32)

• Worries about a potential presidential debate moment where mainstream Democrats support “defunding Israel.”

2. Epstein’s Diagnosis: Ideological Shift & Deconstructionism

• Epstein agrees and expands, stating the rise in socialism is due to a loss of constructive politics within the party (02:26):

  “If you don’t know anything about how wealth is created, how prosperity is created...what you tend to sell is deconstructionism–tearing down.” – Julian Epstein, (02:46)

• Critiques the left’s “oppressor/oppressed” narrative, seeing it as a manipulative and shallow response to real grievances.

3. Case Study: Graham Platner’s Scandal and Party Response

• Kilmeade details various personal and political transgressions by Maine Democrat Graham Platner, including offensive remarks, praise for Hamas, and personal misconduct (03:52).
• Epstein criticizes both media coverage (for running with thinly sourced rumors) and the Democratic response, labeling it hypocritical given their past moralizing over Republican scandals (05:33).

  “It’s funny to watch Democrats squirm on this...they don’t really subscribe to [their principles] in a sincere way.” – Julian Epstein, (05:33)

4. Critique of Far-Left Hypocrisy and Threats to Liberal Institutions

• Epstein argues that the left’s rhetoric and behavior—a “race to the bottom”—has created a self-defeating hypocrisy, undermining the foundations of Western liberalism (06:02):

  “There’s no system ever that even comes close. There’s nobody competing with Western exceptionalism. But these clowns don’t understand that.” – Julian Epstein, (07:44)

• Both speakers lament that party gatekeepers now prize radical rhetorical posturing over experience or constructive achievement.

5. Democrats’ Position on Israel and Its Political Fallout

• Kilmeade and Epstein predict that growing anti-Israel sentiment will soon be mainstream within the Democratic Party (11:04):

  “You’re gonna see, Brian, an exodus of not just Jews, but centrists from the Democratic Party.” – Julian Epstein, (11:35)

• Epstein sees the movement to “defund Israel” as fundamentally rooted in, and bordering on, antisemitism:

  “This anti-Israel movement is very adjacent to anti-Semitism...Let’s get rid of all the Jews. That seems to be what the left is hinting at right now.” – Julian Epstein, (11:14)

6. Leadership, the Biden Family, and Democratic Accountability

• Discussion shifts to Jill Biden’s remarks about President Biden running for a second term following his debated health (13:01).
• Epstein slams Jill Biden for what he calls “gaslighting” and calls the 2024 campaign a “cover-up” by the entire Democratic Party:

  “She was pushing for him to run. Everyone knows she knew better than anyone else about his decrepit mental state. It’s a con job on her part.” – Julian Epstein, (14:10)

• Notes frustration among mainstream Democrats, predicting further turbulence for the party in the near future (15:22).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Epstein, on left-wing activists:

  “None of these clowns have ever been involved in building a business, meeting a payroll...all they sell to the voters is, you know, we’re going to tap into whatever resentment you have and say it’s the fault of the system.” (07:32)

• Kilmeade, regarding Israel debate:

  “Is there any doubt in your mind, Julian, that when the Democrats get on stage...they’re going to be asked how many people are for cutting off aid to Israel, and every hand will go up, except maybe Josh Shapiro.” (10:52)

• Epstein, on the potential realignment:

  “You're going to see a major Jewish defection. I think you’re also going to see sort of centrist, independent, centrist Democrats who believe in national security...” (11:40)

• Epstein, on Democratic reaction to Biden’s candidacy:

  “The entire Democratic Party was part of this cover up...the level of dishonesty, the layers of dishonesty here is just...jaw dropping.” (14:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – Kilmeade opens on the rise of socialists in Democratic primaries
• 02:26 – Epstein on the causes for the left’s shift
• 03:52 – Kilmeade outlines Graham Platner’s controversies
• 05:33 – Epstein discusses mainstream Democratic hypocrisy in handling leftist scandals
• 06:02 – Epstein’s critique of anti-Western rhetoric
• 09:55 – Kilmeade & Epstein on mainstream Democratic leaders’ reactions to Platner
• 11:04 – Predictions about Israel’s role in the party and possible electoral fallout
• 13:01 – Kilmeade introduces Jill Biden’s campaign comments
• 14:10 – Epstein asserts a Democratic cover-up regarding Biden’s health
• 15:22 – Epstein predicts no party redemption in 2024

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Conclusion

This episode offers a pointed critique of the Democratic Party’s current trajectory, with both Kilmeade and Epstein arguing that centrist and pro-Israel Democrats are being pushed out by a rising socialist, activist class allegedly ignorant of institutional or economic realities. Issues like Israel, party hypocrisy in scandals, and the Biden family’s handling of succession underscore their argument that a realignment is underway—one that bodes ill for both the party’s prospects and the country’s political culture.

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Transcript

[Brian Kilmeade]

But when I see what's happening with these socialists, I counted today 30 or 40 socialists who are primary other Democrats, prime leading or primary sitting Democrats like this guy Dan Goldman in New York is as left wing as he gets. He hates Trump just like just a fighter nonstop. He's losing by 30 points to a Mandami sycophant Skylander. 30 points. And you know what's killing Dan Goldman? That he's pro Israel, not even pro Netanyahu. He's pro Israel. Think about that. You have a socialist party on the left rising that hates Israel. And I guarantee you we're going to see these moments on the debate stage for president. How many people here are for defunding Israel? And everyone's going to put their hand up. I'm talking about Mark Kelly, Pete Buttigieg for certain, Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris. Who knows, maybe Elizabeth Warren. They're going to put Bashir and Shapiro. I don't know if Bashir and Shapiro will put their hand up. I don't think Shapiro would put his hands up. I wouldn't think. But I'm just, I'm really concerned for the country. I'm not you notice I'm not even talking about November. So if that I'm worried with those socialists, even though it might give the Republicans a leg up. I'm just worried about the country. I, you know, when George H.W. bush lost to Bill Clinton, we went from center right to center left. Now we're going to I was watching this yesterday, the Supreme Court, all these candidates, Ro Connan on this say everybody is going to add justices to the Supreme Court and put an age limit in. If you get rid of the fill and they do, they're going to look to do that once they, if they get the presidency. I think it's terrible for the country if we don't like the country. Let's change the institutions, not change something within. Within the institution. Julian Epstein joins us now, serves as chief counsel to the House Judiciary Committee and staff director of the House Oversight Committee for Democrats for five years. Julian, do you share when I was Talking to Melissa DeRozzo, he used to work with Governor Cuomo for years through his three runs as governor. About this rise of socialism and how prevalent it is, not niche to just New York City.

[Julian Epstein]

Yeah, Melissa and I are in the same camp and I agree with everything you said in your setup. I think the rise of socialism is a reflection of something even deeper that's happening inside the Democratic Party, which is most of the politicians, most of the Activist class, the academic class, don't know anything about building the way the old Democratic Party did, the way the Democratic Party did during the Clinton years. So if you don't know how to build, if you don't know how to, if you don't know anything about how wealth is created, how prosperity is created, what you tend to sell is deconstructionism tearing down. And I think what you're seeing with a lot of these movements on the left is this notion that we want to undermine Western exceptionalism because it's a cheap and easy thing to sell to voters. If you're frustrated with something in your life, if you're not as happy that you, you know, your neighbor may have more success than you do, then we're going to sell you this lie, this con job, that the system is unfair and that the only way to rectify the oppression of the system is through destroying the system. And that's what I think is increasingly happening on the left. It's certainly in the activist class, it's certainly in the academic class. And those are the feeders, Brian, for the political class. And I. Your lament. I share your concern about what it means for the country.

[Brian Kilmeade]

So Melissa told me yesterday she formed a super PAC you should join, pushing back against socialism in the Democratic Party. And that should be a part of what. Because you always talk about that. So I want to bring you to another socialist. He called himself a communist, Graham Platner over in Maine. These are some of the things that he's done. Made liberal use of slurs intended to demean homosexuals and mentally disabled. Praised Hamas raid that killed five Israelis, embraced political violence, called rural Americans racist and stupid. Identified as communists and socialists. Downplayed the seriousness of sexual assault and rape. Mocked a Purple Heart soldier, said he should have died and mocked the way he handled himself and ridiculed the Taliban for not killing him, which is unbelievable to me. And now he's got this secting scandal where he was in constant contact with eight woman, eight women. Here he is yesterday, cut 18. But the stories are true, right? About the texts?

[Julian Epstein]

No, no, this is, this is the amazing part. The Wall Street Journal, New York Times ran stories without any evidence besides the gossip from a former staffer. I'm sorry, that's. That's frankly journalistic malpractice.

[Brian Kilmeade]

That staffer was told by his wife when they were saying, before I start running, let me just tell you that he's got some problems because he's on these webs, these dating websites, unsavory dating. Websites, not conventional websites while married. Is this going to be a problem? And that person came forward to the New York Times and Wall Street Journal. So now he's in Washington pleading his case. Don't abandon me. What do you think they're going to do?

[Julian Epstein]

Well, it's funny to watch the Democrats squirm on this. You know, there was just nothing but five, six, seven years of pearl clutching about every allegation that was made about Donald J. Trump, whether it was true or false. And now you have all of this personal stuff coming out about Platner. It's not just the report I heard this morning was sexting with 12 different women after he was married.

[Brian Kilmeade]

My bad.

[Julian Epstein]

His account on Kik with that photo that I don't think is a very flattering photo. The discussion of prostitutes and masturbation and Porta Johns and sort of all of these things, the mocking of the soldiers, all of this like weird psychopathic stuff that paint a sort of a weird, bizarre personal profile of this guy. But to watch Democrats sort of squirming when they were so morally righteous about these issues, when it came to the other side, I just think it shows that the Democrats use their sort of use those issues as a way to gain power and they don't really subscribe to them in a sincere way. But the real pornography, Brian, I think that you pointed out was the fact that he makes common cause with terrorists. It's not just the Nazi tattoo. It's the fact that he has consistently championed Hamas, which is a terrorist, racist, ethno, nationalist movement. The closest thing to Nazism we've seen. That's what the Crown prince of Saudi Arabia has said. The closest thing to modern day Nazism we've seen. And he finds common cause with them. It's funny, Democrats go around calling people Nazis and fascists all the time that they can't even recognize when Nazism and fascism is coming into their midst in a much more serious, significant way. So the number of contradictions and hypocrisy that's going on in the left here is extraordinary to me. And what it tells me is that Democrats don't have much of a bench. They are finding these people that have no experience, that have these bizarre backgrounds and that the only thing that takes to get in the gate is to have this sort of anti Western deconstructionist, let's bring revolution to the system because of a criticism, a so called criticism of system that they don't themselves really understand. You know, the west has done more for poor people and middle class people than any civilization ever in the history of humankind. It has done more to secure the economic opportunity for all of its citizens. It's not perfect. And the individual liberty more than any system ever. And these clowns on the socialist left come out talking about the oppression of the system. Well, like as compared to what Name identify a system for me that has done more to advance the economic opportunity of billions of people, literally billions throughout the world. And the individual liberty. There's no system ever that even comes close. There's nobody competing with Western exceptionalism. But these clowns don't understand that. And they're selling this oppression, oppression, oppressor, oppressed oppressor framework because they don't know anything else. They can't sell anything else. They've never built anything. None of these clowns have ever been involved in building a business meeting, a payroll they don't know how to build. So all they sell to the voters is, you know, we're going to tap into whatever resentment you have and say it's the fault of the system. And it is, as you pointed out in your setup piece, Brian, it is really, really poisonous to what has been a, you know, a magical experiment with American democracy. Why pay when you can slash with TikTok, slash and free. You can cut prices down all the way to zero. Just download TikTok, search, slash free, pick items in TikTok, shop, share the link and boom, free items unlocked even with free shipping. So seriously, why pay, download TikTok and start slashing now.

[Brian Kilmeade]

So I want you to hear, Bernie Sanders is not abandoning him. This guy, Senator Gary Peters says, I'm going to wait to see what he says. Adam Schiff says I won't endorse him. Cory Booker says he's got some explaining to do, but not Bernie cut 19. So I think maybe we should be focusing on the important issues facing working people throughout this country, not focusing on his marriage. And my understanding is that his wife Amy, who I've met, indicated they love each other, but maybe we focus on the issues facing the American people, the people and not the marriage issues facing Grand Plan, but is sending sexually explicit messages. Does that make you, is that the right person for office? Are you at all rethinking your endorsement? Certainly not. Certainly not. So sticking with him, sticking with the socialists everywhere. So. And you got about 40 primary sitting, sitting people right now. Is there any doubt in your mind, Julian, that when the Republicans, when the Democrats get on stage for, for the presidential debates, they're going to be asked how many People are for cutting off aid to Israel, and every hand will go up, except maybe Josh Shapiro.

[Julian Epstein]

I think that's right, Brian. The way that the Democrats were asked in the 2020 election, how many are of you are for decriminalizing border crossings? Yes, this is a. It's a race to the bottom. I think this anti Israel movement is very adjacent to anti Semitism. Let's, you know, let's import. Let's import tens of millions from the third World and let's get rid of all the Jews. That's sort of the. That seems to be what the left is hinting at right now. And I think you're gonna see, Brian, an exodus of not just Jews, but centrists from the Democratic Party. We've spoken before on this program about the realignment of the middle class. We spoke about that in the days leading up to the 2024 election. Well, I think you're gonna see a major Jewish defection. It's been about 70, 30 for Democrats. I think you're gonna see a major Jewish defection. I think you're also gonna see sort of centrist, independent, centrist Democrats who believe in national security, believe Israel is the most pluralistic democracy, that is, that defends human rights. You can criticize all you want about Gaza, but what Israel was doing in Gaza was taking out a terrorist network of 300 miles of underground networks. You know, the basic. The basic truth is if Israel laid down its arms today, all of Israel would be slaughter. 10 million Israelis would be slaughtered. If Hamas laid down its arms, there would be peace. So there's a complete lack of moral clarity, and I think it's going to translate into more political trouble for the Democrats. And I, for one, am certainly not going to support a Democratic Party that wants to defund Israel. And I think there's a lot of fellow travelers with me.

[Brian Kilmeade]

Lastly, she's back. The Bidens are back to explain themselves, and they are absolutely clueless that the landscape has changed and nobody's covering their backside. Here's Jill Biden try to explain herself after the debate by keeping her husband in the race. Cut 54.

[Julian Epstein]

If you could go back in a time machine and do it all over again, would you have encouraged him maybe to not run again?

[Jill Biden]

You know, as I look back, would I want to put Joe through the hurt and the pain that we felt that during that time? Never, never. I mean, it was so hurtful. And so it sounds like you're saying

[Julian Epstein]

if you could do it all over again, you probably would have encouraged him to be A one term president.

[Jill Biden]

But it had to be his decision, Craig. It had to be his decision alone because he had to live with that decision the rest of his life. I couldn't say Joe do this or Joe do that. It was his decision to run in the first place, only his, even though the family had their input, especially the grandchildren. But you know, it was his decision to get out.

[Brian Kilmeade]

So I have a few things to say. But Julian, what do you have to say about that?

[Julian Epstein]

I mean, it's such a gaslight. Everyone knows she was pushing for him to run. Everyone knows she knew better than anyone else about his decrepit mental state. It's a con job on her part, but everyone expects that from her. She's sort of a villain, the villainess of the 2024 campaign. But what I, Brian, is all of these Democrats attacking her now saying, you know, she was sort of part of the COVID up. They were part of the COVID up. The entire Democratic Party. We knew about Biden's state in 2021, in Afghanistan in August of 2021 and when he didn't know what his general's positions were. So the fact that the Democrats are now covering their own asses and saying, oh, look how villainous Jill Biden is, the entire Democratic Party was part of this cover up. I was arguing this, as you know with you and others, that he should have as early as 2022 and 2023 that he had no business running for reelection. The level of dishonesty, the layers of dishonesty here is just, you know, job smack, just jaw dropping.

[Brian Kilmeade]

And Julian, it's going to get worse. Just we only have 30 seconds, but Joe Biden's going to do his bio now when that comes out, is this going to bring this whole thing up again? Is that a nightmare for Democrats?

[Julian Epstein]

I think that most Democrats think wish he would get off the stage. I don't know who's going to write his biography. I don't think it's going to. And I just think there is this tireless thirst for redemption and I think there is no redemption for the Democrats in 2024.

[Brian Kilmeade]

Yeah, we'll see what we'll see who's going to emerge. Julian Epstein, thanks so much. It's a big primary day, you know, I can't believe how interested we are in June. Julian Epstein, thank you.