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- [00:00]
A
All right, with me right now is Eric Shawn of Fox News fame, senior correspondent. And he's also hosting Crazy American History as we get to set. Set to celebrate July 4th and the 250th birthday of America. Then the hard stuff started after we declared. Eric, welcome.
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B
Hey, Brian, great to see you. Thanks for having me.
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A
What made you do Crazy American History?
- [00:21]
B
Well, we're celebrating the 250th birthday, of course, and I thought there were probably stories out there that they did not tell us in high school. So we started looking at some of these and we found some doozies. For example, example, who designed the flag? The American flag.
- [00:37]
A
So what did you find out?
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B
Everyone says like Betsy Ross. No, I mean the current flag. Now, there is a story that's been out there for decades that the current 50 star American flag was designed by a 17 year old high school student from Lancaster, Ohio. His name was Bob Hefton. 1958, he designs a 50 star flag for his history class. He gets a B minus. He's really PO'd on that. The teacher says, I'll give you an A if you send it to Washington. He does that. He does send the flag to the White House. And he claims, and this is the story for decades, that his design was adopted by President Eisenhower as the new 50 star flag when Hawaii and Alaska came in the Union. And I got the flag right here and I know this is radio, but I'm gonna pick it up. I have the original, the original flag. This is the 1958 BO flag that he sent to the White House.
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A
So clarify this for a second because you have 13 colonies, but every time we added a colony, we would add a star.
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B
Yeah, every time.
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A
And then in the beginning we would add a stripe too.
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B
Yeah, the flag code says 13 alternating red and white stripes and a new star on a blue field for every time a new state is added. That is all it says. So we went to the Eisenhower Library and Museum in Abilene, Kansas and they have all the records of the Eisenhower administration. And they said when I asked what's the rules, what were the guidelines? And they said there weren't any. They had to make it up because the only guidelines are what I Just said. In 1958 and 59, a huge wave of interest in the two new states, kids around the country and people start sending in their designs to the White House. 1,900 flags and flag designs were sent in. And some of these are wild. And we have them. Our show is Crazy American History on Fox Nation. Streaming now. And you'll see some of these, like the red and white, the, the, the, the, the white stars with the blue vertical on the left. I mean, things that you've never seen before.
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A
So I want you to hear. This is Bob Heft. Now, he passed away. So this from what year?
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B
Yeah, this is 2004. He passed away in 2009.
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A
Here's his story. Cut 49.
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C
I, of course, designed the flag of our country, our current flag.
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B
Meet Bob Heft. He says before he knew it, he got a call from President Dwight D. Eisenhower himself.
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C
And I picked up the phone, he said, I wanted to let you know that I selected your flag as the official flag of our country.
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B
And the rest is history. The 50 star flag we celebrate today is all thanks to Bob.
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A
So would you say up until the 50s is when they stopped adding stripes? When a state was added?
- [03:19]
B
No, no, they had, they always had the same stripes. It's the stars that were added. So There was a 49 star flag when Alaska came in. That was only for like, I don't know, six, seven, eight months. Then when Hawaii came in, it was officially displayed on July 4, 1960, as is tradition over Fort McHenry at 12:01 in the morning. And that is the basis of the current American flag. It's the six, alternating six stars with the five. And that was Bob Heff's design. The big issue, though is critics say, no, he didn't design the flag, he just sent it in. There's no evidence that he actually, the White House actually acknowledged that his was the flag.
- [04:04]
A
So you looked at everything, you could not find it. But Bob Hepb said Eisenhower called him.
- [04:08]
B
Yeah, that's what he says. He says Eisenhower called him. He said a lot. He said a lot, Brian, through the years, he did get the. He said that he flew the flag, got it flown over 50 state capitals. first I'm like, no, well, guess what? I've seen the letters from 40 governors. He did get the flag, which we have right here, flown over 40 state capitals. But the story, I think really is about the one man and the flag and what it means to us as Americans, the freedoms that we value and hold so dear. And here was a patriotic man who had this story for decades, speaking to kids and veterans and school groups claiming that he designed the flag. That's why it's such a fascinating, crazy American story.
- [04:56]
A
Yeah. So you also have another one of your stories is, you know, after 1783, we win the war, but we set up a very loose federal government where 13 colonies were really doing their own thing. They were not really laced together strongly because everyone feared a king. They said, we just lost. That last thing we won is a king or a president that was going to be cracking the whip. That's never going to leave. So we had the Articles of Confederation take it from there.
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B
Yeah, articles of confederation, 1781. And we look at who the first president, the real first president of the United States is. If you ask everyone, they'll say George Washington. Well, there's a whole group of historians who say, no, he was not. The first President of the United States was President John Hanson. Because he was elected by the delegates on November 5, 1781 as President of the United States in Congress assembled.
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A
Here is a cut from that moment.
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B
Cut 50. Who was the first President of the United States?
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C
Frederick Maryland's John Hansen.
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B
Tell us a bit about who John Hansen was.
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C
He was the first president of the first government. We're on the second one right now. Famously begun with Washington's inauguration in 1789. But for eight years before that we had our original government with its constitution, the Articles of Confederation and it's presidents who serve one year terms.
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A
Did he do anything?
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B
Yeah, he did. That was Peter Michael, who's a descendant of John Hanson. He's written the biography of John Hanson called President John Hanson. Yeah, he did. Mr. Michael points out that during the Hanson administration they established the first bank. There was a war cabinet, a cabinet, positions of foreign affairs, war finance. John Hanson and the Congress established Thanksgiving at that time. And during his administration they sent Benjamin Franklin and John Adams over to Paris for the Treaty of Paris to negotiate the surrender of the British Empire. So he says that his ancestor is one of the great. He's a founding father, is one of the great Americans who actually put the country together. There was no government or country when he started. He said after the end of that first term when we had a functioning government.
- [07:24]
A
So was he a signer of the Declaration of Independence?
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B
You know, I found. I don't know. But he was a delegate from Maryland.
- [07:30]
A
That is episode number two. Now episode number three. You label the New York power couple.
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B
Yes. When Captain Kidd, right, You've heard of him, infamous pirate, you think of pirates are on the high seas killing people and swashbuckling and burying their treasure all over the place. Captain Kidd was a wealthy New York guy. He was married, he had two young daughters. He had a mansion. He and his wife were top socialites. No one knows about this. He had this whole life in New York City. He'd be hob mobbing around the Hamptons now if he was here. And we focus on this unknown part of an infamous pirate.
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A
Did he have two identities or was he known then?
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B
No, he'd be Mr. About Town, New York socialite, American. While he was here, they didn't go out on the high seas.
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D
Wow.
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B
For like a year, two years.
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A
Almost like Superman have two identities.
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E
History isn't just in textbooks. It's the story of us, the United States. 2026 marks 250 years of America. And throughout the year, Bill Hemmer takes listeners on a journey through the 250 most impactful moments in American history. From the spark of revolution to the battles for freedom. The ideas, inventions and decisions that change the world. The 250 most impactful moments in American history. Podcast, listen and follow now@foxnewspodcasts.com Cheers to America's 250th birthday. Get 20% off your first purchase at foxnewswineshop.com with code FNRADIO20. 20% discount excludes wine club offers and cannot be combined with any other promotion. Expires July 31, 2026. Must be 21 or older to order. Please drink responsibly.
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A
Here's a Little from episode three. 51.
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D
They were New York's power couple.
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B
New York's power couple. Captain Kid.
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D
Yes. They had a very normal life. He was a family man.
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B
You don't think of that as a pirate like that.
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D
No, you don't. And he was very educated. He wrote beautiful, beautiful letters. He had a fabulous signature.
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A
So who are you talking to?
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B
Yeah, that's Daphne Jedicopoulos. She's written the book the Pirate's Wife. The amazing story about Sarah Kidd. Who was Captain Kidd's wife? You know what the buried treasure. I mean, you're a historian. You've written about Long island and the Washington spy ring. You know all about history. Guess where Captain Kidd, some of his treasure was buried?
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C
Where?
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B
Long Island.
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A
Where?
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B
Out on Gardner's Island. Gardner's island is between the two forks of the north and south of Long Island. It is a private island. It's in 1630 something. It was under the Gardner family and it still is. It is the most exclusive.
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A
You can't go there, Eric.
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B
Sean, you cannot. We tried. It's still in the family. The Gardner family. Now the. They are the Goulettes. They own the island. You're trespassing if you go on it. But Captain Kidd, when he was a pirate, he came back after a three year voyage and he was going to face charges of piracy. So he buried some of his booty on Garner's island. Gold, silver, a 45 pound chest, a rare silk. And there's a marker on the island where Captain Kidd buried his treasure. And some think that there's still treasure around because we know that he started stashing it to protect his family in Connecticut, in Rhode island, rumors of it being in New Jersey. But so far, the only booty of Captain Kidd that's been dug up was that chest in Gardner's island that he buried in 1699.
- [10:53]
A
What was in it?
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B
Gold, silver, gold, silks. There's some spices that we don't know about. Sugar. Sugar was very rare at the time and that was dug up. And in fact, the East Hampton Library, they have a piece of silk that he gave to Mary. No, no. Julia Gardner, the Gardner's wife. So it's still, still there. People don't know that he buried treasure
- [11:18]
A
here in the U.S. how many episodes do you have?
- [11:20]
B
We have three episodes now. It's Fox Nation Crazy American History. And we're just starting.
- [11:26]
A
Eric, thanks so much. First off, I know you started office in New York with New York as your beat. How does Mondame stack up to the past mayors from Bloomberg to Giuliani to de Blasio? Where would you put Mondame, which you've seen so far?
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B
He's way out there on the left side. Look, I think Ed Koch, who to me was a great mayor, would be rolling in his grave right now. You can't. And de Blasio fell into this issue. You cannot be a far left ideologue and be against capitalism and be the mayor of the greatest city in New York. Fiorello LaGuardia said it best. He said there's no Republican or Democratic way to pave the streets, make the city safe, fill the potholes, make the trains run on time. Then you got a great mayor.
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A
Right. And this mayor in particular just got it passed to freeze rents. Landlords are the bad guys. So now you're going to exceed these apartments, go to disrepair, there's going to be no money to fix them and maybe condemned.
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B
Yeah, we saw that in the South Bronx in the 1970s, that, that caused the, the neighborhoods to go downhill. And so we'll have to see what happens with them.
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A
Maybe the goal is for the city to buy those apartments and then decide who goes in them.
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B
Yeah, I, you know what? I. I'm speechless. You can tell. No, I don't know. I hope he gets it. I don't think he does. And I've been studying the mayoralty of New York. I majored in it at Georgetown. And we've never seen someone like this ever. And I just hope he understands the city government. Good luck.
- [13:08]
A
Right. Eric. Shawn, thanks so much. And congratulations on your series, Crazy American History, available right now on Fox Nation. You can follow Eric on Eric Sean TV.