2nd MVP Straw Poll Reaction: 2 Clear Favorites

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective Episode: 2nd MVP Straw Poll Reaction: 2 Clear Favorites Release Date: February 14, 2025

In the second episode of "Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective," hosted by Brian Windhorst alongside ESPN insiders Zach Lowe and Tim Bontemps, the panel delves into the latest NBA MVP straw poll results. The episode, titled "2nd MVP Straw Poll Reaction: 2 Clear Favorites," offers an in-depth analysis of the poll’s methodology, results, and the implications for the remainder of the NBA season.

1. Introduction and Poll Methodology

The episode kicks off with Zach Lowe welcoming the listeners and introducing Tim Bontemps and Ben McMahon, who are actively engaged in covering the NBA All-Star festivities and the upcoming All-Star break. The primary focus quickly shifts to discussing the MVP straw poll, a recurring event that takes place three times a season—once in the fall and twice during the regular season.

Zach Lowe (00:35): "Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which you're doing on Thursday afternoon."

Tim Bontemps explains the complexity of the poll's methodology, emphasizing that it involves interviewing 100 likely voters across all 30 NBA markets and internationally. This diverse approach ensures a balanced representation from broadcasters, writers, and pundits alike.

Tim Bontemps (01:50): "He talks to 100 likely voters in all 30 markets and internationally. He talks to broadcasters, writers, pundits."

2. Early Poll Results and Lower-Tier Players

Brian Windhorst provides a rundown of the lower-tier players who received votes, highlighting newcomers like Pistons guard Kate Cunningham and Cavs’ Evan Mobley. The discussion includes humorous takes on players like Tristan Thompson, who recently made headlines for an unforeseen dunk during a game against the Raptors, leading to tension with coach Darko.

Brian Windhorst (04:06): "Another first time entered in the poll... Cavs corner, stand up for Evan Mobley."

Zach Lowe (05:03): Reflects on Tristan Thompson's antics and how they might influence public perception of his MVP candidacy.

3. Mid-Tier Contenders: LeBron James and Victor Wembanyama

LeBron James re-enters the poll, securing the eighth spot with a combination of first and fifth-place votes. Similarly, Victor Wembanyama sees a slight rise due to the Spurs' improved performance, keeping him in contention for an All-Star spot.

Brian Windhorst (07:05): "LeBron James... First entrance in the poll since the beginning of last season."

Tim Bontemps (09:09): "Jaren Jackson Jr. has a great case to be an all NBA selection if he keeps this role for the final 30 games of the season."

4. Top Contenders: Jayson Tatum and Nikola Jokic

As the discussion moves to the top of the poll, the spotlight intensifies on two dominant figures: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Shay) from the Oklahoma City Thunder and Nikola Jokic of the Denver Nuggets. Both players have consistently led the polls, showcasing extraordinary performances that have solidified their positions as frontrunners for the MVP title.

Brian Windhorst (18:43): "Jason Tatum was first in the first straw poll of the 22, 23 season. The year and Bead ended up winning."

Zach Lowe (23:00): "I voted for Jokic in the first poll and felt pretty strongly about where he was... I did vote for Shea for first in this."

5. Shay vs. Jokic: A Two-Horse Race

The core of the episode revolves around the intense rivalry between Shay Gilgeous-Alexander and Nikola Jokic. The panelists debate their statistical achievements, team performances, and overall impact on the league.

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Shay)

• Performance: Averaging career-high points per game, leading the league in scoring efficiency.
• Team Impact: The Oklahoma City Thunder have surged to the top of the Western Conference, significantly improving their record and point differential.
• Quotes:
  • Tim Bontemps (25:08): "Shay has made a... I'll call it like a little hop. Not quite elite, but he's averaging what, two and a half more points per game..."
  • Brian Windhorst (28:14): "Shay would become the sixth player in NBA history to average 3.5 steals and blocks a game."

Nikola Jokic

• Performance: Continuing his historic season with unprecedented triple-doubles, maintaining high shooting percentages.
• Team Impact: The Denver Nuggets are solidifying their position as a top team in the Western Conference, with Jamal Murray returning to form.
• Quotes:
  • Brian Windhorst (28:14): "Jokic is the first non-center to average a triple-double for a season. His numbers across the board are completely bonkers."
  • Tim Bontemps (38:26): "Shay is having an MVP runner-up season and has made a significant leap... his net rating swing is neck and neck with Jokic's."

6. Final Poll Results: Shay Takes the Lead

The episode concludes with the revelation that Shay Gilgeous-Alexander has emerged as the frontrunner, securing 910 total points compared to Jokic’s 788. The panel discusses the narrow margin and the ongoing competition, anticipating a potentially tight race as the season progresses.

Brian Windhorst (30:21): "Nikola Jokic who's now in second. He was in first in the first place."

Zach Lowe (43:12): "Unassailable."

Final Standings:

• Shay Gilgeous-Alexander: 71 first-place votes, 32 second-place votes, 910 total points.
• Nikola Jokic: 30 first-place votes, 69 second-place votes, 788 total points.

7. Predictions and Closing Thoughts

The panelists express their predictions, acknowledging that while Shay currently leads, Jokic's exceptional performance could still sway the final outcome. They emphasize the importance of maintaining a fair and respectful discussion as the MVP race heats up.

Brian Windhorst (33:31): "This is going to be a fascinating one to go down to the end."

Tim Bontemps (33:52): "That's a good one. Jackson, get us that one too. Shay is minus 700, Jokic plus 425."

Zach Lowe (34:17): Encourages a non-toxic dialogue moving forward, focusing on the merits of both candidates.

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the MVP straw poll, highlighting the strengths and contributions of Shay Gilgeous-Alexander and Nikola Jokic. With both players exhibiting extraordinary performances, the MVP race remains intensely competitive, promising an exciting conclusion as the season advances. The panel's balanced discussion, enriched with humorous anecdotes and critical insights, offers listeners a thorough understanding of the current MVP landscape in the NBA.

Notable Quotes:

• Zach Lowe (01:40): "I will never claim to be a math expert."
• Brian Windhorst (17:33): "Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I think he deserves a ton of credit for that."
• Tim Bontemps (33:52): "Shay is minus 700, Jokic plus 425."

Timestamp Highlights:

• 00:35 - Introduction to poll day
• 05:03 - Discussion on Tristan Thompson’s dunk
• 18:43 - Jason Tatum's standing in the poll
• 28:14 - Shay and Jokic's statistical achievements
• 30:21 - Final poll results announcement
• 33:31 - Predictions on MVP race dynamics

This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, ensuring that both avid listeners and newcomers can grasp the critical discussions surrounding the NBA MVP straw poll.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim MacMahon]

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[Zach Lowe]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which you're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining us from San Jose, California, where he's out there for the All Star festivities up in the Bay Area is Tim Bontemps.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hello, everybody.

[Zach Lowe]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he's very excited to hit the All Star break is Ben McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

Howdy, Portins.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, so this is one of our favorite days of the year. It's straw poll day. We only.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, I thought you meant going to the All Star break.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, well, I was going to say nobody deserves the All Star break more than our guy McMahon. After the way the last couple weeks have gone, he deserves to escape.

[Zach Lowe]

This only comes around three times. Well, I guess it's more than three times a year. Three times a season. The straw pole.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it's three times a year that Akron math.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, three times a year, buddy.

[Zach Lowe]

No, there will be one in the fall. I guess you're right. Three times a year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Three times a year.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, that's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, three times a year.

[Zach Lowe]

Listen, math. I will never claim to be a math expert. I took my last math class my junior year of high school and I did not do well on.

[Brian Windhorst]

It shows. It shows right there.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. I'm not denying it.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not denying it right now.

[Zach Lowe]

But you had to do some adding bond temps for your poll real quick.

[Tim Bontemps]

I did.

[Zach Lowe]

The methodology for the bond temps poll is as. I'm just. Bontemps is too. He tells it too complicated. So I'm just going to tell it. He talks to 100 likely voters in all 30 markets and internationally. He talks to broadcasters, writers, pundits. He gets a cross section of the actual matrix, like everybody, like they do in the league. He doesn't just talk to people in New York, doesn't just talk to people in Omaha, doesn't just talk to broadcasters or reporters. He talks to the whole section.

[Tim Bontemps]

So it has all the likely voters in Omaha, though. He does talk to.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes, this poll has reliably been the greatest predictor of any NBA award. And so without further ado, Mr. Bontemps the floor is yours. And by the way, one more thing. Sorry. More ado.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's fine. That's fine.

[Zach Lowe]

More Adobe McMahon and I, as. As is our standard custom. McMahon and I do not know the results. We will be learning them in real time here. And Bon Temps keeps us under lock and key because it does affect the. The of the odds. And McMahon and I do not wager. Can't speak about Jackson. I'm just kidding. I'm sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jackson basketball throw down. I'll nickel and dime some. Some football bets, but go on.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, so just. That's the disclaimer. All right, Bon Temps, now it's yours.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, these are always the three days where I'm actually complimented on the pod, so I should probably do more polls and that would be better for me.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I was just about to say the other reason that you hold so tight results is because it's the tiny little shred of power that you have.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's not really anything to do with that, though.

[Tim Bontemps]

I do wrong to say, but it's not inaccurate.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so in the second edition of the poll, we had 14 different players get at least one vote, which was a lot more than I expected in. We'll run through the bottom guys quick. I think we'll have a couple brief stops along the way. Alaran Shangon was 14th. He got one fifth place vote.

[Zach Lowe]

Phase three, McMahon, phase three. Hold on.

[Tim Bontemps]

I thought Jonathan Fagan retired.

[Brian Windhorst]

My guy was not from a. Not from a Houston reporter.

[Tim Bontemps]

Wow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not from a Houston reporter.

[Tim Bontemps]

Shout out to Turkey. Our Turkish.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was not a Turkish reporter either. Another first time entered in the poll. Two fifth place votes for Pistons guard Kate Cunningham.

[Zach Lowe]

Wow.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's had a very impressive first of many. Making his first all Star. We'll see about that. First all star appearance this weekend. He's had a great year for them. Another first time entered in the poll in 12th place with 1 4th place vote. Cavs corner, stand up for Evan Mobley.

[Zach Lowe]

Whoa.

[Brian Windhorst]

One fourth place vote.

[Zach Lowe]

How many votes for Tristan Thompson for dunking up by 30 on Wednesday night?

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey, he gets my sportsmanship award. I guarantee. Most overrated thing in sports is sportsmanship.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's just say. Let's just say Tristan's feeling pretty good about his dunk after that.

[Zach Lowe]

Let me. Let me get that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I might have texted him today and asked him about it. He might be. Might be feeling pretty good about Duncan in his hometown. And that's.

[Zach Lowe]

Let me get that tweet up. Just. I mean, as. Real quick, the Cavs absolutely blasted the Raptors. The Raptors were on the second night of a back to back. They were missing some guys, you know, but the Cavs completely dominated the game. And then Tristan was in in garbage time at the end and with less than 30 seconds, it wasn't like at the buzzer, but with like less than 30 seconds, he threw down a dunk. And Darko, the Raptors coach, did not appreciate it. Said it was no class. I think Darko said, yeah, he was, Darko was displeased.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hold on, there was more than that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, we don't need to get into Darko's whole thing too. But Tristan, Tristan's response was funny. Darko was unhappy about the dunk.

[Tim Bontemps]

No class and disrespect. Go on, let's hear Tristan. Tristan.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, Trist. So Tristan said, hey, you want to, you want a full court press with under a minute left in the game. When you get cracked by 30, this will happen to you. Lose for the draft lottery and be happy, buddy boy. Which he's referring to Darko, who's a nice man. I have nothing bad to say. Hopefully you and most of your guys see the light at the end of Bobby and Messiah's long term plan. Bobby Webster and Messiah Jiri, their front office. Bless up and stay warm in all caps.

[Tim Bontemps]

My city, Toronto native Tristan Thompson. Listen, the man, I'm sure he had friends and family in the arena. He hadn't dunked in a while. I, I gotta get Stats Williams on this. I'm pretty sure Tristan's last dunk was on the NBA today set. Remember when he threw it down on Shanae on, on, on live TV when he was our teammate. So you know, the man gets a chance to dunk in his hometown. Throw it down, big fella.

[Zach Lowe]

And he did, Kristen.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not bashful.

[Zach Lowe]

Anyway, Evan Mobley with a fourth place vote.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that was, it was interesting. A bunch of, a bunch of first time vote getters at the bottom, tied in points, but ahead of him because he got a couple more votes. With three fifth place votes, former Cavs corner, this player in the league, LeBron James. First entrance in the poll since the beginning of last season.

[Tim Bontemps]

Really ahead of Evan Mobley.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, but he, he got some fifth place votes. We'll see, see if the Lakers continue to win. They've obviously had a great run into the all Star break up until this game Wednesday night in Utah where they got smacked by the Jazz. That was an eye popping box score. By the way, that's Larry Market in plus 35. Walker Kessler with I think 8 for 8 from the field and six blocks. There was a lot of, a lot of stuff going on.

[Zach Lowe]

Walker was not intimidated by newly signed Alex Len. I'll just leave it at that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Luka Doncic minus 19 and 23 minutes. Hey, there's. I've started hearing people call this the Max Christie trade because Max Christie is averaging more points per game since the trade, since Luka Donk. I think that's premature. I think we should, I think so. I think we should probably let things play out.

[Zach Lowe]

How many votes for Max Christie?

[Brian Windhorst]

I will tell you what though. The Mavericks did get a really good player in Max Christie. That guy has come on in a huge way this season and was really coming off of the Lakers and he's been, he's been great.

[Tim Bontemps]

If the Mavericks would have just made a like a trade that Max Christie was the return, like if it said it had been like maxi Cleveland round pick for Max Christie, their fans would be really fired up about him. You know he got a little overshadowed by who else is in this deal.

[Brian Windhorst]

I thought one of the more interesting spots on the whole ballot was Jaren Jackson Jr. Coming in ninth. A couple fourth place votes and a fifth place vote not because he's going to win MVP but because we've talked a bunch on the spot about Memphis wanting to resign Jiren to a long term extension before he hits free agency. Trading Marcus Smart last week gave him the ability to potentially renegotiate and extend them. But I think Jared Jackson junior's got a really good chance to be an all NBA forward this year or an all be a player I should say. And if he, if he makes all NBA and I think being in the top 10 in MVP voting is a good sign that's going to happen with the position this ballot. These are going to be super max eligible and Zach Kleiman is going to have a lot more flexibility to get a deal done with him and I assume keep him in Memphis for the long term.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, and listen, jaws missed a lot of time. The Grizzlies are rolling along sitting second in the Western Conference. He's having his best offensive year career high 23 points per game, really good efficiency. He's been a defensive player of the year. He's still one of the best. Those block shots are down a bit but he's still like a phenomenal defensive player. I think he's got a great case to be an all NBA selection if he keeps this role for the final whatever 30 games of the season or so.

[Zach Lowe]

Agree.

[Tim Bontemps]

Thank you.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon with some perfect points in eighth place. One of Brian's discoveries. One third place vote, seven fifth place votes, eight total votes and 12 total points. Victor Wembanyama back in the poll again. Moving up a little bit with the spurs moving up the standings a little bit. We'll see down the stretch here what happens with McMahon and I's bet and whether the spurs can get in the mix for a play in spot. But I think it's safe to say Victor is going to be in the mix on these for a little while to come.

[Zach Lowe]

I did not put him on my ballot. I. I seriously considered it at the fifth spot but I did not put him on my ballot because the spurs are outside the top 11 and there's.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're sub 500. I also consider sub 500. If they get their 36th win and he has a big that night, I might put him number one on my ballot.

[Zach Lowe]

I see, I see.

[Tim Bontemps]

But they're. They've fallen off the pace that I need to see.

[Zach Lowe]

You should ask the place where Victor took his team to dinner. And we took the spurs to dinner in Paris. Les Joel du Robuchon. Leotier du Joel Robachon. That would be a spectacular place for you to collect on your bed.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dude, maybe the best meal I ever had was in Paris on my honeymoon. This place called Giraffe with the Eiffel Tower in the background. The first time I had some fancy old caviar, which was I. But the meal was phenomenal. But I am going to see the spurs coming out of the All Star break. Don't tell the bosses, but it's a trip that I'm milking to go see my daughter on the company dime because they're playing the Suns at the University of Texas.

[Zach Lowe]

The bosses don't listen to this part anyway. Don't worry about it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Exactly. So really looking forward to that. And I'm going to have to have a conversation with CP3 will probably be receptive to. To me saying, dude, like I got dinner on the line. We get these boys rolling again. I don't know. I practice some. Practice some, some French, you know, if I can do the old part of my French and start cussing Victor. But yeah, they got to get it turned around if he's going to be a real MVP candidate and to prevent me from having to take bond temps out for fast food.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you mentioned, you mentioned Brian, the, the fact that the fifth spot might be a little bit open. I'm going to list off the next three guys in a row because they all basically split the fifth vote, and I think the fifth spot is pretty much completely wide open at this point.

[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

So the two Knicks, Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns basically had the exact same votes, had 22 and 23 total votes each. Brunson had one extra point, so he was sixth and Towns was seventh. But they had 32 and 31 points. Basically split the Knicks vote. If one of them had gotten all the votes though, they still would have been six because they would have been behind the other entrant in Cavs corner, Donovan Mitchell, who had three third place votes, 11 fourth place votes, 25 fifth place votes, 39 total and 73 total points. And I think as things stand, is the most likely guy to finish fifth. Not surprisingly, given the way the Cav season has gone.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I went with Brunson fifth on my ballot, but Donovan is a good choice because of how well the Cavs are doing, as you guys know. So one of my guidelines when I'm trying to determine awards is I think about what the players responsibilities are. The code word I use is lift. How big is his lift every night? And while Donovan has been awesome, what the Knicks ask Jalen Brunson to do, especially in minutes, is just a lot. And so that's why I went with him fifth. It was funny though. Josh Hart the other day was saying that he really appreciates when Jalen tries to play defense because all he does is foul when he tries to play defense. So. But that notwithstanding, I had him fifth.

[Brian Windhorst]

I am surprised. Kat has had a great year. I've been surprised how many votes he's gotten in these straw polls so far, because to me, if you're picking a guy that's the MVP of the Knicks Cats had a phenomenal year, he deserves to be in the All Star game, deserves to be an all star starter out of the East. But I mean, I think you ask anybody with the Knicks, I think they would tell you Jalen is the guy that drives that team forward. And I think, I mean, you saw it even last night. I mean, they're playing this crazy game against the Hawks. They tried to blow it a bunch of times. They're down one with 20 seconds to go, no timeouts. Jalen's got Dyson Daniels, maybe the best perimeter defender in the league, garden them and he just sizes them up and buries a 20 footer and make sure they wins the game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Ryan, he's the culture setter. He's the leader. You know, obviously he's the guy with the ball in his hands and all that. I didn't have him on my ballot. I'll be honest with you. I've been a little bit busy, so I didn't put just a massive amount of thought in the fourth. I had, I did have. I had Donovan fourth. And Wendy, it's interesting, you know, you. You mentioned the, the thing, the responsibilities of lift and all that. And I get it. I also think that part of Donovan's value this year has been to kind of let go a little bit. And I've covered Donovan, you know, I covered him a lot from his rookie year on the whole Utah thing, you know, was wrote a lot about all the, the friction with him and Gobert, all that, the whole saga. And I actually talked to Donovan when I was in Cleveland, just, you know, just shooting the bull off to the side. And when I talked to him about this, there was definitely a point in Donovan's career where stats mattered to him, status mattered to him. You know, averaging points per game was important, which is not unusual. Like, Anthony Edwards has been honest about that stuff matters to him now. He doesn't want to be double team pass ball night. He wants to get buckets. You know, Donovan is at the point in his career, and he's at a great point where he's in his prime physically and has really matured to the point where he understands, hey, if I give up a little bit, it's better for the team to let Garland get going, empower Mobley, you know, all, all these things, and it's able to save his, his body and his legs so he can be fresh come playoff time. Unlike last year, where, man, like, you know, obviously, like, his body gave out on him. So I actually think Donovan willingly and even eagerly accepting a little bit less has been part of his value to the Cavs this year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think he deserves a ton of credit for that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Wendy, I know you're not used to that kind of nuance from me, but that's pretty.

[Zach Lowe]

I, I, I, Listen, man, I, I'm in agreement. I, it would be more fun if we were arguing over the definition of bad luck, but at the end of the week, we're just, we're out of. We're out of. We're out of gas.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, no, just keeps digging himself a bigger hole, McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

The thing about it is, like, when Wendy's got his hair right, you know, when he's got the product in there in the park. No, he's got the thing going.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yep. He's calm, cool, and collected. That's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

You catch Wendy on a. In a bad hair moment. Wasn't even a bad hair day because the hair was right. And then he let his hair and it wasn't. That's right, Wendy. In a bad hair moment.

[Brian Windhorst]

And like the moon, all bets are off, baby.

[Zach Lowe]

You're saying there's a correlation between what's going on inside the head?

[Tim Bontemps]

Exactly. When this is on, when it's on point outside, it's on. When it goes to hell outside, like, get the old mov.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, now we get to the, to the real business end of the pod. Starting in fourth place. I think you guys can guess who's in fourth place because he's in fourth place, basically, in every poll for, like.

[Zach Lowe]

The last two years.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's. That is correct. Jason Tatum.

[Tim Bontemps]

Top of the second tier. Top of the second tier, baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Jason Tatum.

[Tim Bontemps]

We should call him Toast.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Jason Tatum was first in the first straw poll of the 22, 23 season. The year and Bead ended up winning. Since then, he has been somewhere between fourth and sixth in every single poll, and he is again in fourth. 18. Third place votes 65. Fourth place votes 14. Fifth place votes 97 total, 299 points. Actually on one more ballot then the guy who was in third, guys can probably also guess. Gianna Stenoko, Bucks star.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hold on, wait. Tatum finished above LeBron and above KD. Should have got, should have got more minutes in the Olympics that, that. How do you feel about that?

[Zach Lowe]

What's that, that meme where Tom Hardy is like, that's bait. I think it's Tom Hardy that's bait. Just pretend I did that.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Janice finished third. 96 total ballots, 1 second place vote, 77 third place votes, 12 fourth place and 6 fifth place votes. 430 total points, which. Go ahead.

[Zach Lowe]

Tatum.

[Brian Windhorst]

Say some Tatum.

[Zach Lowe]

Just we move past him. Tatum's having a fabulous year. He's leaving the Celtics in points, rebounds, assists and steals. It's either steals or blocks. Must has to be steals. I mean, and that's a good team. I don't know if you heard.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, yeah, I noticed that during the playoffs last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's having a tremendous season. Yeah, he's going to be first team all NBA again. He's, I mean he's, he's a phenomenal player. I just, I also think he's probably going to be semi permanently stuck in sort of this position where he's somewhere between fourth and sixth on ballot every year.

[Zach Lowe]

If you're, if you're making a supermax contract, $300 million and you're stuck right on the first team, all NBA and MVP. I would say, I'd say life is.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'd say life is, is great. And look, the thing that Tatum in particular, I think doesn't get enough credit for is the fact that he just, he plays all the time. Like we're talking about all these other guys missing time. He plays all the time. And look, Giannis, you know, we've talked about it some lately. He's only six games away from potentially being ineligible for any awards at all. Now one thing I have in the story that's running today with, with the poll itself, I check with the league and because Giannis played in the NBA cup final, the only thing that game counts for is end of season awards. Stats don't count, the game result doesn't count, but it counts as a game played for the 65 game rule. So even though he's missed 12 regular season games, he's got six games to play with to be eligible.

[Tim Bontemps]

Still, that game made me flip flop in the previous straw poll and I'm still getting crap about that. No, Casey.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, so now we're down to The. The real business part, we've got Shea and we've got Jokic.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let me just point out Yan's numbers actually stack up favorably to both. Both of his MVP seasons. The Bucs record doesn't. And these two dudes are clearly like, it's a two horse race.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is a two horse race. They were the only two players to be on every ballot and they had the. There was only 1/3 place vote between the two of them and they. They swept the rest of the first and second place votes. It's the most dominant top two I've ever seen in any of these polls over the past several years that I've done.

[Zach Lowe]

So basically, since. Since you love these, it's all. It's not just you, it's all of. ESPN loves tears. You know, our editors love tears. So there would be. These two guys would be in tier one. Giannis would be in tier two by himself or. No, he would be. I guess he would be with Tatum.

[Brian Windhorst]

I would say he and Tatum are in tier two together because. Well, I think Giannis will finish third pretty clearly if he's eligible. But if Tatum, I think will be the next guy. And then there's a pretty clear tier after that with Mitchell in the. The Knicks guys. Okay, do you got any predictions on, before we unveil this, on how it went?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I will say how I voted.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, go ahead. You guys should both say first.

[Zach Lowe]

I voted for Jokic in the first poll and felt pretty strongly about where he was and he has done nothing to hurt his case in that time.

[Tim Bontemps]

You voted. And stop huffing and puffing.

[Zach Lowe]

That's the freaking pod, buddy. Huffing and puffing is the name of the game. If we didn't huff and puff, we would be done. But Shea has been so impressive and the Thunder so dominant that it is really the classic case for mvp. And so it would nothing against Jokic. I did vote for Shea for first in this.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, and so did I. And look, say what you want, if it's even, I'm going with a guy who hadn't won it yet and the guy whose team is by far, you know, the. The best team in the Western Conference. I haven't checked today. Are they the best team in the league, record wise? Yes, they are. By.

[Brian Windhorst]

They are. Because. Because they. Because they scored the first 24 points of the fourth quarter Wednesday night and came back and beat Miami after being down the entire game. Just a devastating defensive performance.

[Tim Bontemps]

And, you know, it's like we talked going into the season about the standard Being so high for Joker to be a four time MVP in a five year span and the historical implications of that. And I don't like, I don't think that he's clearly a better player than Shay and I think there's a strong argument or clearly having having a better season than Shane. I think there's a strong argument to be made that Shay, Gilders, Alexander in terms of impact has been having or is having the best season in the league. And I mean, Joker's insane. The guy like last I checked, he has more triple doubles through three quarters of games than any other team has. Period. You know, like, I mean he's having an absolutely bonkers season, but so is Shea. And I'm doing math here, which, thank you. Things have calculators. So get this. I would say the two most important stats in basketball are very basic. Points and plus minus. Like you have to score points to win games.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm not sure everybody would agree with that, but I'll let you keep, let you keep cooking.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like plus minus is what's the score? The score is the most important stat.

[Zach Lowe]

Right, but there's a lot of things that go into plus.

[Brian Windhorst]

Just let it. Hey, listen, let him huff and puff, all right? He's, he's huffing and puffing. Let him make his point.

[Tim Bontemps]

And half of the scoreboard are the points that you score. Shea has a 233 point.

[Zach Lowe]

Not always what you're hoping for is a lot more than half is your score.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is point one side. Just finish your point. Finish your point, buddy.

[Tim Bontemps]

133 point advantage. And plus minus this year he is plus 704. Okay, wow. Joker's plus 471. They're one, two and plus minus. I don't know. It's a decent stat to indicate impact if they're one.

[Zach Lowe]

That was, you're right. That, that was. I, I want to, I want to take it back. Okay, I liked that. I don't know if I think it's the second most important stat, but that was a good.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's the most important because the scoreboard is the most important stat.

[Zach Lowe]

Right? But plus minus is highly circumstantial anyway. This is like the, this is like.

[Brian Windhorst]

You ever shifted cojones factor. The cojones factor criterion, month to month.

[Tim Bontemps]

Your inability to understand cojones is the least surprising thing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I understand it. I just ask you what the criteria is and every month it changes.

[Tim Bontemps]

You're not even sure what region they're located on. Okay, settle down now. Now I can Be petty with you. I'm allowed.

[Brian Windhorst]

Someday, someday people will, someday people will hear the end of the poll but continue.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well I just going to get the raw point scored, point advantage plus minus and a 236 point advantage and point scored. He's got 1696 points or not to the all star break. And Anthony, I'm glad we're just, I'm.

[Brian Windhorst]

Glad we're just citing raw numbers that nobody has any context for of any kind whatsoever.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dude, I'm sorry if you have a 200 plus point cushion in both of.

[Brian Windhorst]

Those stats man, Shay is great.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm just giving value and, and if you're a significant contributor to the number one defense in the league and you're averaging whatever the hell he's averaging in rebounds and and assist, you know he's one of the best defensive playmakers in league like and your team has the best record. I mean it's a pretty comprehensive most valuable player case.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well it's pretty simple for both guys.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey Jackson, you better comprehensive that. You know get that thing up on the board baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's. There you go. The, the vocab lessons are working. I mean the case for each guy is very simple. Jokic is the first non center to average a triple double for a season. As of now his numbers across the board are completely bonkers. Shooting 57 for the field, 45 from 3:29 I think 12 and 10. Just crazy numbers. Shay would become the I believe sixth player in NBA history as of now to average 35.5 a steal and a block a game. The other guys are Jordan, Lebron, Embiid, Giannis and Wade. It's pretty good list also. So like the numbers on both sides are crazy.

[Tim Bontemps]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this I.

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[Brian Windhorst]

Will that be cash or credit? Credit.

[Tim MacMahon]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Now for the actual results. In second place with 30 first place votes, 69 second place votes and 1 third place vote, 788 total points is Nikola Jokic who's now in second. He was in first in the first place.

[Zach Lowe]

30. Only 30 first place votes.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's I'm going to get to that in a second. So obviously then Shay is left in first. 71st place votes, 32nd place votes, 910 total points.

[Zach Lowe]

Number one or two on every ballot.

[Tim Bontemps]

So what is the separation points?

[Brian Windhorst]

100 222. Now a couple. A couple things. A couple. Well, so here's the thing. We're talking about a totally binary race now, right? These two guys are one and two. Nobody else is getting first place votes. Hardly anybody else is going to get a second place vote. It's going to be we're back in the same. It's maybe not going to have quite the same venom, but it's going to be the same thing as Giannis and Harden, Yachin, Bead, etc the rest of the season. Now in the two weeks leading up to this vote, because the context of these things always matters, right? What's happening last time, as you mentioned it, McMahon, we did this right around the NBA cup final. Giannis beach in the NBA Cup Final. Probably the worst game the Thunder played all season. Worst game ground there, right? Worst game he played. Shay lost ground there. Yanis gain ground there. Yo, which was in first. What's happened over the last couple of weeks? Shea has just happened to have the first 350 point games of his career in the last two weeks as the Thunder have been rocketing out to this huge lead in the west, right? So the context of the moment, thundering.

[Tim Bontemps]

Out to a huge lead. The rocks.

[Unknown]

There you go.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. That's a good, good line by you. So the Thunder, the Thunder have obviously between Their play and Shay's individual play, I'm not surprised that he is winning. And I think to your point, McMahon, I don't think you're alone in. If it's a tie, you're going to go to the guy who hasn't won and a guy who, you know, hasn't won three of the last four. So I think that also is working in Chase favor, too. I'm also going to say, though, Denver's now 36 and 19.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're good.

[Brian Windhorst]

They are. They are a half game behind the Memphis Grizzlies in second place for second place in the West. They've won eight games in a row or eight and two in their last 10.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're the biggest threat to the Thunder in the West. I think.

[Brian Windhorst]

No question Jamal Murray's back to being Jamal Murray again. He had 55 yesterday. Like he's cooking again. Jokic is putting up triple doubles.

[Tim Bontemps]

Anybody question? Giving Jamal Murray max is a buffoon.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, it's good to see him back playing like a Max player again. But all I'm saying is you look at 70 to 30 in the first place vote column and you think, oh, man, this race is over. Shay's gonna win. I think it's very possible. Shay wins. It won't surprise me at all if we, when I do this in a couple months for the end of the season, if he's in first place, I would just say I think this thing is wide open. And I think that if the Nuggets keep playing the way they've been playing over the last few weeks and Jokic keeps putting up huge numbers and they're clearly the second best team in the west after the awful start they had and Jamal playing terribly early in the year and everything that's gone on, then I think this thing is going to come right down to it at the end because Jokic's numbers, like his numbers across the board, are completely berserk. And if it. If you start putting resume against resume I like, it's going to be very hard to choose and it's going to come right down to the end of the season, I think.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and can we please just have a deal where we talk about the qualifications of two incredible candidates and not try to poke holes in either? Because, dude, that would be great. Like, these guys are both having historically awesome seasons. It doesn't. You don't have to knock Joker to say, I think Shay's most valuable player in the league.

[Brian Windhorst]

Correct.

[Tim Bontemps]

You don't have to knock Shade and say, hey, Joker won Three out of four for a reason. And he's having maybe his best season yet. They're both amazing players. They're both having amazing seasons. So for the first time in a long time, let's have a toxic free MVP discussion down the stretch.

[Zach Lowe]

What other pie in the sky requests do you have?

[Tim Bontemps]

I think we can do this.

[Zach Lowe]

So I would just say that I am. Remark. I am routinely surprised at the lack of respect that's given to the Thunder. I'm not sure if it's because this. The nature of their team. They're kind of a little hokey as a team. They're in a small market.

[Tim Bontemps]

And the group interview stuff, the dream.

[Brian Windhorst]

They haven't done it yet. It's the same as the Celtics. The Celtics were. The Celtics were poked in similar ways. And then the Celtics won last year.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. No, I understand. I'm just saying, like, like Bomb Tim's.

[Tim Bontemps]

It said Joker was a fraud until the Nuggets won their title. These. These things happen. Like, it's the truth.

[Zach Lowe]

So I will say that I, you know, because of that, which I feel like I'm not even, like. I'm not even like somebody who's like, oh, yeah, they're going to win the whole thing. I'm not even like super hugely Pro Thunder. Like, I think it's still wide open among several teams, but I feel like I almost daily defending the Thunder on TV because I'm listening to my colleagues, like, just, you know, pencil the other teams in ahead of them and I'm just like, you know, guys, they're 44 and nine. You know, they've got 30, 46 wins by 10 points.

[Tim Bontemps]

They have a point differential of plus 13 and a half, which would break the record by over a full point. Like, we can't crown them yet. They've got to, you know, they've got to make the run. They've got to earn their parade right around that Bricktown Canal. Tipsy Tiki's a nice spot in that. On that canal. But, you know, if.

[Zach Lowe]

If the Thunder make the finals, are we going to hear more promo for the Tipsy Tiki or the wonder Boy?

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, available for pre order. Luca Donche bar. The bar this year only.

[Brian Windhorst]

For sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Only because of. Well, I think if you bring the wonder boy too, it'll be the. We'll be hanging at the Goat a lot too. It's opening up. If you bring the wonder boy, I.

[Brian Windhorst]

Will be signing be the bar, Brian, because the book will have been out for two months and McMahon will be looking for as much free alcohol as he can get. So it will be the bar for sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

So calm down on all that. I, I like they serve cold milk there too. I know that because I brought Royce Young there once when I was. You made me lose my train of thought. Oh, what a shock to act like the Thunder aren't absolutely a championship caliber team. You're not basing that on any kind of.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I agree. I'm just saying if it's close, I wonder how that will affect the voting.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I'm just saying people will probably see this and see 70 to 30 and just go, ah, Chase probably going to win. And I would say that it's a lot closer than 70 to 30 because the thing people don't think about with this stuff is like, if it's really close like it is with this, it only takes a few people to flip their vote and all of a sudden you're in a dead heat and Shay is coming off an incredible Chase coming off an incredible couple of weeks. And I think, I think Denver, like, I think if you ask the average NBA fan or the average NBA watcher, where's Denver in the standings, they're going to say, ah, they're like fifth or sixth. Like I don't think people are looking at them as being the number two team in the west after how chaotic the beginning of their season was. And well, I know they are third right now. I'm saying the fact that they're in, the fact that they're in a neck and neck race for second is not where we thought they were going to be at any point. And if they end up 12 in the west, like a big part I think of Shay's argument is that he is the best player on what clearly has been the best team. But if Jokic has got Denver up the second, then you know, it's. That's going to be a big feather in his cap down the stretch.

[Tim Bontemps]

And a big part of Joker's argument has always been the net rating swing. Right? Because the Nuggets again are awesome with him on the floor and awful with him off the floor. Plus 12.3 net rating on minus 8.5 off. You add that up, it is wait.

[Brian Windhorst]

Minus 20 point swing. 20 point swing.

[Tim Bontemps]

My bad. Minus 8.2. So it's a 20.5 swing. Now the Oklahoma City Thunder are awesome. Missed, if that's a word, with Shea on the floor. And okay with them out, 19.1 is his net rating plus 0.6 when he sits. So you know there's still a little bit of a head above water, but that's an 18.5 point net rating swing. So, I mean, basically the net rating swings are. Are also neck and neck. And again, that's always been. Not that joker doesn't put up all kinds of insane numbers. And you can also do things like turn on the television and watch them play as long as you're not in the Denver area or like the surrounding six states. But yeah, I'm just saying, like the net rating swing.

[Zach Lowe]

You said the surrounding six states is a joke with me, but that ain't too far off.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not kidding.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, how about them finally getting altitude on the broadcast channels there after only five years to get it done? Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Wow.

[Brian Windhorst]

They just announced that the other day.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was not aware of that development. That's nice. You have like, a historically elite player and people who live there can actually watch the man.

[Zach Lowe]

There's people, like, in golden and like, you know, Boulder who are like, completely. Who is this guy, number 15?

[Brian Windhorst]

Who is this guy? Jokic? You mean Carmelo?

[Zach Lowe]

Do you have in front of you Bontemps? What the. Who was the leading in the poll a year ago?

[Brian Windhorst]

And at the break it was jokic, Shea, Giannis, Luca. 1, 2, 3, 4 last year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, ended up being Yokiche that one.

[Brian Windhorst]

It felt like Jokic basically had it locked up, even though it was a similar. It was a similar gap. But it didn't. There was much more of a debate about.

[Zach Lowe]

The Nuggets were a terror throughout last season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and. And the debate was about whether Shea or Luca should be. Or Yana should be second or third or fourth, rather than anybody really challenging Jokic for first. After Embiid got hurt because Embiid had led the first one, then he got hurt, then he was off the ballot, then Jokic was sitting there and he was obviously the guy this year. It's. To me, this debate is going to very clearly go right down to the end of the season. And, you know, assuming both those guys are healthy, knock on wood. And they both have a very long track record of being very healthy, so hopefully they stay that way. And I, I think, you know, there's. Don't bother putting bets on Giannis or Tatum or anybody else. There's nobody else who's going to win. It's going to be one of these two guys, and I think we're going to be. You know, I certainly hope it's not going to be a toxic debate. I think the fact that they don't play the same position will help with it not being as toxic of a debate and the fact that there's not like even battles over all NBA anymore like there was with that other one with Embiid and Jokic.

[Tim Bontemps]

But also I think a lot of Oklahoma doesn't have the Internet, so that'll help.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, let's not make it toxic and then let's do that. But I do think this is going to be a fascinating one to go down to the end. And I mean, I don't. I just. That's just the strong. The only thing I would say about it, like even the odds. I was looking at the odds yesterday and I want. I think it was like shay was like minus 400 and jokic was plus 700. I would say it probably should even be closer than that because I think Jokic has got a real.

[Zach Lowe]

So you're saying jokic at plus 700? You like that number? Relatively.

[Brian Windhorst]

I just think if you're making a bet, I, I think Shay, if I had to guess now, I would guess Shea will win. But I, I think the race is far from over and I think people shouldn't. Like last year at this time, I thought Jokic was going to win for sure. This time I think it's like 60, 40. Shea wins. But the momentum, I think could easily swing back in Jokic's favor late.

[Tim Bontemps]

Shay, after having an MVP runner up season, has made a. I'll call it like a little hop. Not quite elite, but he's averaging what, two and a half more points per game, leading league in scoring his efficiency. If you look like effective field goal percentage is ticked up just a little bit from being really damn good to even better. And the Thunder, after being a number one seed, have made a significant leap where like, dude, 70 wins is still a possibility for them. We'll see. We'll see if they maybe let off the gas a little bit down the stretch. Obviously they're not going to be fighting for any kind of seating. They're going to run away as the number one seed in the league. But again, he's like, he's got a airtight case. It's just that Joker also happens to have an unbelievably tight case himself.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're two unassailable cases. You just have to pick between them.

[Zach Lowe]

Unassailable.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's a good one. Jackson, get us that one too.

[Zach Lowe]

Jackson has ESPN bets numbers right now. Shea is minus 700, Jokic plus 425.

[Tim Bontemps]

Wow. Minus 700. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

So maybe not as Attractive on the Okic number, but I would say you're right. Bon Temps a better than anybody else right now would be kind of probably a waste.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're just. You're just wasting your money on that because it's going to be one of these two guys.

[Zach Lowe]

Von Temps, thank you for your work on this. As usual, I will be relying on you to cover All Star Weekend because I am completely unenthusiastic about it and I'll be relying on your recaps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I probably am not going to read a damn thing you write this week in Bondemps, and I ain't going to be anywhere near San Francisco.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think you've earned that, buddy. You. You've had quite a. You've had quite a stretch of time. Got a lot of people asking me, asking how you've been holding up. And I said, I've had a lot of. Just as irritable as ever.

[Tim Bontemps]

I've had a lot of people encouraging me to go to hell and saying all kinds of nasty things. So that's. That's good. I'm. I'm happy. There are some people who have some well wishes for me. That warms my heart.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's a couple of them, at least.

[Tim Bontemps]

A couple of them included.

[Zach Lowe]

There's probably a bar in some NBA city called Hell that you would. You've been to.

[Brian Windhorst]

It has to be.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey, we're talking about Max Christie. Can I tell my Max Christie story?

[Brian Windhorst]

My Max?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, is this about you asking Clay about this?

[Zach Lowe]

Is this a good maverick story? We're in the business for those.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, again, Max Christie's been amazing. I did ask Clay. Yeah. I asked Clay about Christian. He said, man, I thought for the longest, and it just happened to be after the Kings game. And he said, man, I thought for the longest. He was Doug Christie's son. Six, six guard, you know, defensive mind, same frame. And then he went on to rave about how awesome actually been since he's been with the Mavericks and that pretty shot. That. Again, he's been amazing. But no, I met. I met Max Christie's aunt last year. Do you know Kieran's, the, the bar, the Irish, like huge Irish pub right across the street from the Target center in Minnesota.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, vaguely. I haven't been there in a while.

[Tim Bontemps]

But yes, here's a little tip. Bon tips. When you go cover a Timberwolves game, their PR staff, which was the. What's the award?

[Zach Lowe]

What's the Brian McIntyre Award?

[Tim Bontemps]

Brian McIntyre Award. Won it last year. Well, part of the reason they Won it is because when you cover Timberwolves game, they give you a little gift bag. In that gift bag, they've got a buy one, get one free coupon for Brusky at. At Kieran's. Now, Kieran also happens to be my middle name as a, you know, man.

[Zach Lowe]

This is. This is hoop collective trivia. I did not know this.

[Tim Bontemps]

K I E R A N. So I can get.

[Brian Windhorst]

Even spelled it.

[Tim Bontemps]

I can get a free beer at the Irish pub that's named after me. Yeah, I'm gonna take up something in there.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, all he needs to be more Irish is for his first name to be Seamus, according to school with.

[Tim Bontemps]

Seamus Curly and my boarding school in Maine. Anyways, so I go in there and, you know, to have dinner, you know, just. It's just me.

[Zach Lowe]

Have two brews.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is a mistake. This is a mistake.

[Tim Bontemps]

I got. I got one free. You know, I don't. We won't count how many I had. I had one free. Anyways, and Lakers Celtics is on the tv. So I'm watching, and the bartender, very friendly woman, you know, she's. She's asked me like, ah, who you rooting for? And I'm like, yeah, you know, I just. I'm just a basketball fan. You know, I'm just hoping to see a good game and. And. Oh, you don't like either? Anyways, and she kind of led up to it, and then with great pride, she said, my nephew is on the Lakers. I said, really? Max? Christie was her nephew. And I, I told. I told Max this after they beat the warriors last night. You know, just chat with him a little bit in the hallway. And I said, hey, do you have a. An aunt who's a bartender in. In Minneapolis? He was like, I sure do. And then, you know, Kristen, Kristen, the one of the Maz PR people, you know, does a great job and is a friend of the podcast. And she was like, of course. You've met a bartender in every city.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, that is correct. That is correct.

[Zach Lowe]

I was. I have several recommendations of places to eat in Minneapolis, but I've eaten at Kieran's before, so do you get a.

[Tim Bontemps]

Free beer in any of them?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't think so.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, then I'm going back to Kieran's.

[Zach Lowe]

We had. Didn't we have dinner? When did we. Weren't you at the lovely dinner we had in Minneapolis last year with Kevin Harlan?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, with a legend.

[Zach Lowe]

We told some wonderful.

[Tim Bontemps]

What was that spot again?

[Brian Windhorst]

It's only. There's only one legend, but Kevin Harlan is a legend.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's a lot of legends. But he's.

[Zach Lowe]

That was at Murray Steakhouse, which is a famous old school steakhouse. But I'm also a fan in Minneapolis of Bar La Grassa.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. I've not been there. Murray's was absolutely a phenomenal meal. Would go back there in a heartbeat. No. No question about it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Don't know the bartender's name.

[Zach Lowe]

Not yet. No. The bartender has a nephew who plays for. I don't know. I was gonna make a joke, but it's too late in the day. All right. Thank you for Bon Temps doing the poll. Thank you to McMahon for being McMahon and enjoy vacation, McMahon. Hope you have a good little time away. You've earned it. Thank you. Jackson and Rafa, our producers. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We'll be talking to you next week.

[Tim Bontemps]

Adios, amigos.

[Tim MacMahon]

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