← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
5 Biggest Questions For Knicks Playoff Chances + Believe In Magic Hot Streak? & State Of Boston With Tatum's Return
01:04:23
Hoop Collective: 5 Biggest Questions For Knicks Playoff Chances + Believe In Magic Hot Streak?
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
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B
Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday evening. A little later on in the show, we'll have a special guest. If you're a longtime listener of the podcast or if you're a legal eagle, you'll know who Alex Spiro is, one of America's leading defense attorneys. Vince, you can never be, you can never have too many elite defense attorneys on your side. But he's also a Boston Celtics mega fan and so he's hear what's going on with the Celtics. But anyway, joining us from the media room at Little Caesars arena, literally right now as we're doing this, the first quarter of 76ers Pistons is going on. The 76ers are comfortably ahead at this point, about seven points. But later on today, I bet Cade Cunningham will be sitting right there where Vince Goodwill is sitting.
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A
What up, though? Wendy, I'm trying to be, trying to understand why you pointed out the defense attorney thing to me. Do you think I'm going to need one soon?
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B
That's correct. You're from Detroit. I just figure you never know. Joining us from his home in Sacramento, and I have to say it's his home because every time we've had Anthony Slater since he's been with us for six months now, he's been in his backyard and I miss the backyard personally. But from his brand new home studio,
- [01:19]
C
Anthony Slater, you're like the ninth person suddenly now that I don't have the backyard, everybody wants me to get it back, including somebody said, you know what you could do? You go take a picture of your backyard, make it the backdrop.
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B
That would be amazing. Oh, my God, that would be amazing. I would love that. We got to make that happen.
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C
Next time I'm on TV with you, I'm going to do that just for you.
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B
Oh, my God, it's going to be great. Okay, so I thought we'd start. Vince, you had a story that posted on ESPN.com today. You know, we're going to spend the majority of this pod taking a look at the Eastern Conference, particularly the Northeast. But we got some Orlando Magic stuff coming at you later, which is a sentence I don't often say. But Vince, you had a story today. You just recently were on the west coast with the Knicks. You've, you're back in Detroit now, but the Knicks have had a bit of a, had a choppy trip to the West Coast. Um, they're, they always got a vacate this time of year because there's various conference tournaments that move into the Garden and you, you know, for a team that's, you know, got a pretty good record, I think the fact that this, there's a story about the issues facing them is appropriate because as I talk to Knicks fans, Knicks fans are. There was a bunch of Knicks fans in LA this week and I ran into a number of them when I was in LA because the Knicks played two games in LA this week. I miss you by like 24 hours, Vince. By the way, there's, there's a, there's, there, there's annoyance about the Knicks and so you sort of tackled that and as they try to recover here, thought we would take a look here and you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, Vince, where do you think the Knicks are performing at this point
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A
in the season right now? Like, I think it's kind of an odd thing because when they were going out west, I felt like they played reasonably well in a loss to Oklahoma City and then they blew the doors off the Denver Nuggets, who they always seem to have a good time with. And then you have back to back bad performances against the Lakers and Clippers and then you, you beat the Utah Jazz. But they were playing 2G Leaguer. They were playing 2G Leaguers.
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B
You know, they just won the previous game and I'm almost disregarding that. I'm disregarding that game.
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A
No offense survive in advance, I think, honestly, because in a three seed. Wendy, the question I have for Knick fans is do you want to be on the line of playing Detroit in the second round? Who's been your boogeyman? Or do you want to play the Boston Celtics in the second round with new and improved Jayson Tatum? So it's, that's the difference between the third seed and the fourth seed. So right now I think my concern level will be right at about maybe out of six, Brian, just because some of their issues are coming out to bear. Jalen Brunson is the one guy that can create shots. Like when you ask OG Anunoby or Mikhail Bridges who disappeared for games at a time to do more than what they're capable of doing. You see the turnovers, you see the issues, and then when you ask Karl Towns to do more, then it becomes a little bit more on the clunky side. And you're not sure if this is regression, like 30 year old regression, or this is a guy who's not completely comfortable in the offense the way that he was comfortable in the Tom Thibodeau offense a year ago. And you Know, defensively they have had. They've been better. I think it's important to point out from January 15th to now, they're the best defense in the league. The last three games doesn't show that, but they've been good for a two month sample size. It's just that nobody believes in it outside of the Nick walls. And you wonder if that's residue from Tom Thibodeau, if that's residue from some of the doubts that people have had coming into the season and they got
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B
about a month to get a small sample size.
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A
Exactly. No, it's not.
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C
Did I read, did I read it right in your story? Over the course of the season, even they have a better offense and a defense than they ranked last year. Is that right?
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A
Yeah, yeah, they're a top 10 offense, a top 10 defense. But no, but everybody seems to canonize what they were under Tom Thibodeau because they were, you know, the comeback kids last year and they made this run to the Eastern Conference finals. But statistically they are a better team. It's just that when the numbers bear it out, the eye test doesn't seem to support that, or at least the eye test doesn't seem to support that against certain competition in an Eastern Conference where everybody felt like it was the Knicks for the taking. Now they're just one of four good teams.
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C
Their lows seem extremely low this year too. It's funny, you know, you were on the west coast with them recently, right? The two LA games were, were kind of embarrassing. I was in Northern California with them. Gosh, this might have been January. Remember Mike Brown goes back to Sacramento and they lose to the Kings. Then they go get blown out by the warriors, go home. Remember that Mavericks game that, you know, I think they were like 15 point favorites. They were down by like 30 at some point. Like it felt, that felt like such a low moment that. I don't know, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe that Thibodeau team last year didn't have the lulls of the season as much where it felt so, you know, I don't know. Yeah, loud.
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A
Loud. Loud is the word.
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C
Yeah. But, you know, last year you had. The Cavaliers were. However, you know, they were on pace for 65. Whatever wins you had, the Celtics with Tatum, like, look, you know, as the defending champs, it felt at this time last season in my opinion, like there was less of a path for them to the finals than it does right now. But the fact that obviously they went and did what they did in the playoffs probably generated the expectations, but it was, it was interesting for me to read in your story that they actually like ranked better offensively and defensively. Yet I agree that it's very angsty.
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A
It just feels like, okay, sure, let's, let's go to stat boy Carl Town
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B
since the all star break, 12 games, you know, 12 games not. Does not make a season, but you know, 12 games, 21 points, 12 rebounds, 61% shooting, 48% on threes. And yet after every game or most games, it feels like it's a referendum on Karl Towns. That's pretty good.
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A
Wendy. The question is what are the expectations on Karl Towns? And it's almost like last year set an unfair bar where he was, you know, 25 and 12 and all NBA third team. It's almost like the season that he's having this year to some degree as a whole is the season people expected out of him last year where they thought the glare of New York City was going to get to him. And he played really well. And I'm with you. He looks more comfortable post All Star break. His offensive rebounding numbers have been good. He's not shooting the three at a high volume, but he's shooting it well. It's just when you look at him and Jalen Brunson as a quote unquote, one, two punch, it feels like he's been underwhelming when my thing is, if you. Do you want Carl Towns commandeering the offense in the 30 minutes a night that he plays. If so, be prepared for offensive fouls. Be prepared for it to look ugly. Be prepared for the Mikhail Bridges and the OG Anunobis to get lost within that because Karl doesn't know how. He's not a post up guy like he, he has a, he doesn't have a very smooth offensive game. It's effective, but it's not the prettiest because he's just, it's like he's uncoordinated. He's not uncoordinated. It just doesn't look like he's coordinated and that leads to the offensive fouls and every. All the other things that come with the Carl Towns experience. But I'm with you, Wendy, because I know this is going to get clipped and everything else. Carl Towns has exceeded to large degree expectations post all and he's trending positively. People just don't see it that way
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B
because as you say, he lives in a world where his salary is what it was. The trade, you know, ushered in the reality that this team was ready to win a championship. His demeanor on the court, his fouls, I mean, I should bring up the fouls because that's fair. He's averaging. Let's see here.
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C
How many times has he fouled out? That would be my question.
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B
Let me see. I know he's fouled out. I know he fouled out the other night.
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A
Yeah, he fought out against the Clippers
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C
in some like lone. So there's been some times this season it's like six fouls and 22 minutes or something like that.
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B
Yes. And this is the thing, like there are times when he does this and you people, they throw their hands up. And I would just say this. If you expect Carl Towns to be a first team all NBA player who like goes in there and you know, rips out rebounds like he's Rodman and shoots threes like he's Curry and you know, beats his chest and runs over people, he is not going to, he's going to let you down. If you look for a guy who's going to absolutely put up giant numbers almost every night and is going to be a second star and you know, maybe he's a third team all NBA player in a good year. That's who he is. I mean, I mean I. And that's a, you know, that's a good player to have.
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A
It's, it's in the glare of Giannis.
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B
He's been an all star six times or something like that.
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A
Like, yeah, Wendy, it's all in the glare of Giannis. Like let's be perfectly honest here, right? This is all. Both he and Mikail Bridges, who they traded five first round picks for. Cause Stephen A. Will tell you that every single time that the New York Knicks come up on first take, those two players are under the harsh glare of that. Remember, I point this out all the time. Karl Anthony Towns did not get a contract extension before the start of the season because the Knicks know to get a guy like Giannis that means big numbers have to go out. And Mikhail Bridges got his extension, you know, for what, $150 million, whatever it was. But he's also the guy that you depleted your draft assets for. For a player who may be your fourth best starter and maybe on some nights your fifth best starter. And that's why a lot of the attention is so harsh on both of them, because everybody has wanderlust of what we could have had with Giannis, maybe what we can have again with Giannis, except we don't know if we're going to have that with Giannis. And now we look at the Eastern Conference and what looked to be like our year looks like we are going to be lucky maybe to get to the conference finals if it all breaks right.
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B
Can I read you some stats?
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A
Sure.
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B
Stat boy Jalen Brunson since the All Star break. This is all covered kind of in your story, by the way. Just, you know, your story is the source material. Just to be clear. 12 games, just like Kat, 23 points, which is good, but he's down from 27 before the break. 43% shooting, which is average down from 47% before. His assists are good. He's averaging eight a game. He was averaging six before the break. It's a bit of a slump, but, you know, this is something people are asking me about. They're like, how are they going to get Jalen out of his slump? So is I ask you, is it a slump and is it something to worry about or is it just, you know, just a slight downturn?
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A
I think it's regression to the mean. I think we all go back to the quote from last year about, hey, can Jalen Brunson, at 6ft 1 or 6ft nothing, be the best player on a team that wins an NBA championship? And we know the two players who that applies to in the course of modern NBA history. That's Isaiah Thomas and Stephen Curry. And you're talking about two top three point guards of all time. And it's unfair to hold Jalen Brunson to that particular standard. But that's the standard that Knick fans or the New York Knicks are holding themselves to if they plan on getting to June. And I think defensively he's been more active and maybe it's a matter of only having so much bandwidth on both ends of the floor. Secondarily, the Knicks offense has been better when Jalen Brunson is not commandeering the ball, dribbling it into dust. The problem with that, Wendy, is who else is there to create shots? Who else is there to create offense? His teams are starting to double him on the pick and rolls. They're starting to get the ball out of his hands and asking other guys to make shots. And Jalen Brunson and Mike Brown have to find counters to that to get him the ball in space to where multiple defenders aren't there. It's a work in progress. But I tend to believe that Brunson, being the big game player that he is, that those numbers will trend upward even if I don't think he is a 30 point, a ninth guy at his Core. I think he should be around 24, 25. On a team like this, when you got a guy like Carl Towns, when you're not playing 40 minutes a night, this feels like this is what the formula should be. Wendy. It's just that people expect so much and they're comparing everything to the ideal of what last season was, as opposed to maybe the reality of what last
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C
season was, is the tension. We're talking about the dis, you know, the lack of belief in them. You mentioned that there is. Maybe there's a belief inside the walls. It's not there outside the walls. I mean, but you're around them. You know, clearly it's a fan base that's on edge. How does it feel internally to you when you're around them? I mean, do they feel like they, you know, they have a run ahead of them?
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A
It's hard with those guys because. Not that they're up and down Slater, but you know the tenor of a locker room. It can go from night to night depending on who's there. Like, when I was in LA for the Laker game, I see this guy walking in the locker room and shaking hands, and I'm like, who is this guy? And I barely get a glimpse of him. You know who it was? Jim Dolan. Like, imagine. You know what I mean? Like, the glare of the owner popping
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B
into the locker off his teeth.
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C
That owner in particular is how rare. Exciting is. Is it to see him on the road?
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A
Well, for one, I don't travel with the team on the road, so it's hard. But I will say this. That's. It took me to ask someone that looked like James Dolan, is that Jim Dolan? Yeah, that's Jim Dolan. Really? For one, he's shorter than I thought, and that's not a shot at him. I was just like, if you only see a guy from the stand, you have no kind of a shot. No, no, no, no. It. But I ain't the tallest dude, and he was, like, hunched over, so I couldn't get a feel for, you know what I'm saying? Like, his height in that way. And when you're around seven footers, that's true. You know what I mean? It's hard for that. So I didn't. I didn't mean it that way.
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B
It warps your. It warps your. It warps your sense of height when you're around all these dudes.
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A
Don't aggregate me. I'm not taking a shot at James Dolan's night. Like, y' all Come on, y'.
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B
All. I am saying his teeth are white. They're very white. I, you know, I hope I don't get banned from the Garden for saying that. I, I don't. I. Well, first off, Carl Towns's fall is fouled out seven times this year. He's second in the league in fouls per game. Just fouled up on that.
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A
That sounds about right.
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B
Jackson did not provide me with that information.
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C
I'm gonna get like Jaren Jackson.
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B
You're right.
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C
Like the Western Conference version of that of a guy.
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A
And he hasn't even played half the damn season. He's filed out more.
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B
Hope you're recovering well, Jaren. He had knee surgery recently. He's a absolutely great guy. Absolutely wonderful, wonderful, wonderful guy who rebounds the hell out of the ball and sometimes makes you slap your head going, why did you foul. Why did you foul Jaren? But great guy Mitchell Robinson. You highlight in your story as well. Mitchell Robinson is averaging. This number is crazy. Vince, he's averaging eight offensive rebounds per 36 minutes.
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A
Insane.
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B
That's one of the greatest offense. That's Moses Malone level offensive rebounding. Mose Malone is one of the most unbreakable records in the in basketball, I would argue maybe even pro sports. Is Moses Malone's offensive rebounding record.
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A
Is it a record or is it a mark? Because we've been talking about records and marks the past two days on, on, on ESPN's apparatuses. We're treating 81 like 81's a record when 81 is just a very, very high mark. What you're talking about is a record.
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B
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B
Did you see what SPO said tonight before the game?
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C
I did.
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A
I apologize to no one for nothing.
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B
I love it, period. You know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of Michael Corleone in the Godfather 2. Can have my offer now, Senator. Nothing. I'm, you know, I hate to just pile on, but like, you guys know how if you like listen to the pod. I thought it was an awesome thing. We had Bam on NBA Countdown yesterday. Bam was still glowing. Loved it. I know you've been on TV talking about events, but just for our listeners, your position on the performance was let's get it on the record.
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A
So go ahead Slater. Go ahead.
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C
Yeah, to me it was like a 66 point game. Masquerading as an 83 point game. He probably should have been, you know, subbed out early fourth. I, you know, I don't have.
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B
Have this, you know, out because of why.
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C
I mean, they were. What were they, like mid, Mid fourth.
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B
Because the game was in hand.
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C
Yes, exactly.
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B
You know, not because you have to pay respects to Kobe Bryant. Right?
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C
Yeah. No, I mean, look, what if. What if Bam came down on an ankle, you know, something like that in the fourth? Like, I. Look, it is what it is. I'm just saying, like, I. I thought it was.
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B
I agree, 83.
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C
Part of it was a little fake. But I mean, if Bam Adebayo scored like 66 points and played three, three and a half quarters, it's basically what he did do and like that.
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B
Absolutely agree. The, the last five minutes of the game was not a game that we are familiar with.
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A
Vince, I will say this as I said this this morning on first take before it was hijacked in all of the negative ways. If you score 30 points in the first quarter, I'm not passing for the next week. Anybody got a problem with that can have a problem with that. Like, statistically, it didn't look great. It wasn't like he shot over 50% from the field. He didn't shoot an enormous number from three. But when you got it going early and your teammate beating you, and you got 40 at the half and you got 60 after three and you got 71 with like nine minutes left. Yeah, you go for it. And when the Wizards, because they're the Washington Wizards, decide to do all the crazy town things, then Eric's boaster replies in kind like, it looked like at a moment before Bam got to 81, he was trying to take himself out of the game and SPO was leaving him in. So at that point, what do you do? You don't. You play the game and you tell them to. You tell them to stop you. They put three guys on him, and it looked like a clown car from a cartoon show where they were bumping each other's heads and they had no choice but to follow him. What are you supposed to miss the free throws?
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C
Do I remember it right that Kobe before, like maybe a week or two before, he had 81, he had like 62 and three quarters.
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B
I think it was something. Yeah, 62. Yeah. And so I think I better check this. Or maybe Jackson can check me on this. I think Phil. No, never mind. You know what? I'm gonna walk that back.
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A
I think Phil asked him if he wanted to go in and go for the record. And he said, no.
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B
He said, no, we don't need it. Like, we got the game in hand. And I think Brian Shaw told this story and I don't remember who read who. I read who told the story. So I'm not trying to hijack it. I just don't remember in this minute. So all due respect to whoever wrote it, whoever wrote the story initially from Brian Shaw, Brian Shaw like second guessed the decision and told Kobe, like, come on, man, you got to try to go get 70 at the least. And he's like, no. He goes, I'll get it another. I'll give it another day. And like, it turned out like within a couple of weeks he got the 81.
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C
I've seen various versions of this covering the Warriors. I've seen Klay Thompson get into 60 and 3/4.
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B
So Klay Thompson story.
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C
Well, I'll tell you the other one.
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B
He scored 62 in 30, 29 minutes.
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C
Yeah, okay, 60 on 11 dribbles. I remember that one. But also, you know, hold on, I'm
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B
sorry to interrupt you. Then Steve Kerr, like, sort of his quote. We just heard spo's quote. Steve Kerr's quote was, they said Dean Smith was the only guy who could hold Jordan under 30. Well, I'm the only guy who can hold clay under 80. That's what he said.
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C
But also Klay Thompson, when he got the 14 threes in Chicago to break Steph's record, the record that still stands, 14 threes in a game. The last, like three of those threes were in a 40 point blowout in Chicago at a pretty embarrassing time for the Bulls where Kerr was like looking down at Fred Hoberg, like, apologizing, as the warriors are like thirstily getting Klay Thompson, like triple team threes to get to 14 to break Steph's record. So it's like I, you know, and I don't think there was much of an outcry in the aftermath of like, oh, can you believe they did that for Clay? So there's like, give and take with all that.
- [24:09]
B
Can I just ask a question that I don't have the answer to? I'm just gonna. It's sort of rhetorical, but feel free to answer it. Under what circumstances for Kobe and Laker fans would Kobe's record, would it have been okay to break Kobe's record?
- [24:24]
A
It's not a record, it's just a mark.
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B
Okay, I'm sorry, I take that back. Under what circumstances would it have been deemed acceptable for someone to exceed Kobe's 81 point mark. It depends.
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C
They would probably say Luca at this point, right?
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B
Like, let's say LeBron scored. Let's say LeBron scored 82 points.
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A
Oh, Jesus.
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B
Like, short of that, short of the 82nd point coming, like in the fourth quarter of a tied game seven.
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C
How about the game winner got him to 82. You're trying to paint the perfect circumstance.
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B
Oh, I'm just saying, like, I'm not even 100% sure that there would be universal praise for that. I'm just saying that there's universal praise
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C
for nothing in modern society.
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B
Well, that's what I'm saying. And especially for Kobe, who The. The fans of the Lakers guard Kobe's legacy like it's a family member. And so what I'm saying is, is that this was absolutely an imperfect event. I don't think there was. I don't think a perfect event is possible. I don't even think if a Laker, like, short of the guy making the 82nd point to win a championship at the buzzer. I'm not for the Lakers. I'm not sure the Laker fans would have accepted the, you know, easily the record being exceed or the mark being exceeded.
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A
You know what it is? It's for them. They hold on to it as if, like you said, they guard it like it's a family member. And they feel like if it's exceeded, then it will be somehow forgotten or erased. Like, I saw Ice Cube son, actor o' Shea Jackson saying that the league conspired to get bam past Kobe's record because they want to erase Kobe's legacy within the NBA. To which I say, why? Like, but these people, the Kobe Stans, not the general fans, but the Kobe Stans, the unreasonable people, they can't be bargained with. They.
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B
Right, that's exactly my point. They.
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C
They have no great, great job by the league. They're choosing Tuesday night Wizards Heat on league pass, by the way.
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B
Yeah, the scripted thing, that was. That was beautiful, by the way, in terms of like, respect and. And everything like that. Can I ask, Vince, where do you come down on Dejounte Murray crossing over Jamal's shed and then barking at him and then his team, the Raptors, doing nothing about it. Where are you at on that? Considering that Dejounte Murray is coming off of this Achilles and all that?
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A
My general thing is, maybe there was some trash talk between the two before then, but I hear that Jamal Shed is not that type of dude. And secondarily, where your teammates at if some, if somebody's standing over your guy regardless of the circumstances. Maybe it's because I'm here in Detroit and Isaiah Stewart will do more for less. You know what I mean?
- [27:03]
B
Like WWBSD. What would beef stew.you don't want to
- [27:10]
A
know the answer to those questions like even just me if someone's standing over a friend of mine and we hooping. Hey dog, what you doing? We. This is a pickup game and I'm going to have problems.
- [27:23]
B
This is. He's in the league to defend guys like that. That's why he's in the league.
- [27:28]
C
Can we talk about the Pelicans quick? I mean it's, you know, they're, they, they're winning, right? They're winning with their veterans which I, they understand why they're doing it. They, they, they didn't want to pivot away from a lot of their guys at the deadline. They don't have their pick right. There's not an incentive to, to tank. But they're also like Jeremiah Fears and Derrick Queen's minutes are going down and down and down. And I just like they're a curious offseason team to me because if they go on this MIDI run right now with Dejounte Murray, I think impressively coming back. I mean you mentioned it right there. But like he's a good off this Achilles. Are they just gonna like stay in? They're gonna be a 27 win team going to the summer. But be like this last month was great. They're gonna ride. It's very curious like where.
- [28:08]
B
Yeah. So let me just, let me just say like if you look at like they've, they've gone on this streak where they've won 7 of 12, I guess or 7 and no, 7 of 10. 7 and 10, 7 and 3. So if you look at the wins warriors which twice against the Jazz Kings Wizards, like you know, they're, you know. Okay, so I, I, I was with the, the Pelicans last week in la. I talked to some of their people and basically here's the deal. When Zion and Dejounte Murray got healthy, there was an organizational question like what are we doing here? And the mandate that came down from the top is we are trying to win. They don't control their draft pick. So the mandate that came down was we are trying to win. And they had watched Jeremiah Fierce and Derrick Queen start for 40 something games and it resulted in non winning basketball, particularly on the defensive end. And by the way, that is not meant to be a slam and a shot at those guys. You are not going to win with two starting two rookies just about any time in NBA history. Okay, that is not, you know, it is what it is. And so basically they, you know, they're like, okay, you want to win, right? Yes, we want, you know, up front office, we want to win. Okay, well, then we're taking the rookies out of the starting lineup and putting in the veterans, which for a while was DeAndre Jordan. He started multiple games. And, you know, the way it was said to me is even if, you know, Derrick Queen sits there for the first five minutes of the first quarter and watches how DeAndre Jordan, you know, I think Borrego said this on the record, James Borrego, essentially, he said, if Jeremiah Fears can just watch Jeremiah Fears and Derrick Queen can just watch the first five minutes of the first quarter and third quarter and watch how DeAndre Jordan is executing the game plan defensively and then DeAndre Jordan doesn't play again, then he will have done his job.
- [30:02]
C
I think that part of it's okay. Like the player development side, I'm not going to go over the top of like, oh, Fear's only got, you know, 14 minutes. He should have been playing a crunch time wherever. My bigger question is at the deadline, they could have got a haul for Trey Murphy. They could have got a haul for Herb Jones, maybe if they dangled Zion, you know, like, they could have, like, really leaned into a rebuild. They have a lot of very coveted pieces, winning pieces that I think would net some really nice draft capital and they decided not to do it. You know, you talk to teams that talk to them.
- [30:28]
B
It's hard to tank when there's eight other tanks. You know, I mean, well, to me,
- [30:31]
C
it less of a tank and more of like a strike while the iron is hot and while Trey Murphy's values at his highest. Okay, fine. You don't do that. My question would be, as I watch what's going on is are they going to have this fake run? Probably, I would say fake run over the next month, month and a half, not make the play in because they're nowhere near it. Go into the off season and go, look, hey, we had our veterans together. We're, we're a winning, you know, like, mix and then just not trade those guys again this summer. Which I'm not even saying is wrong or right, but it's risky. Just like it was risky, I think, not to move off Murphy. Like, Murphy might have, like, what would he have gotten? Deadline.
- [31:04]
A
Well, but no, I think they were asking for more right. I think what happened was the teams that might have been interested in Trey Murphy weren't willing to come off of the assets that New Orleans was actually asking for. I think it was in the reverse, I think.
- [31:18]
C
I mean, I heard New Orleans was basically saying, no, no, no, like, let's not even talk about.
- [31:22]
B
I also think Joe Dumars, like, doesn't want to do a midseason trade. I think, I think the. I think, I think he kind of put that out there. Like, look, we're not going to do a mid season trade. We're going to stay here. So look, here's the thing. When you got eight tankers, like, like Atlanta, Atlanta, they've been doing pretty well here. They've won six in a row. I don't know if they're playing tonight. Maybe I'll jinx them. Part of what's going on is Atlanta ain't tanking in the Eastern Conference where all the teams below them are and they're not taking because they don't control their pick.
- [31:53]
C
Well, number one, they. Number one, they set that situation up themselves with, with a trade that I know has been questioned many times on this podcast. Number one. Number two, my bigger qu. Again, I don't even want to like, re. Litigate the deadline. My question is what? I said, which is the summer does this, what's happening now, which is them beating these, you know, you know, flimsy teams right now, Is that going to make them hit fast forward in the summer? And I don't know how do you all think that's a good idea? Because we're not talking about tanking in the summer. We're talking about maybe shedding some of these pieces and, and reforming a rebound.
- [32:23]
B
You're making a good point, Slater. You're making a good point. Okay. It's a reasonable point. I do want to come back to Vince's story. We were talking about Mitchell Robinson. Yeah, I'm sorry, I always do this. Jackson knows I always take a.
- [32:37]
C
That was probably my fault, honestly.
- [32:38]
B
No, no, I liked it. Don't get me wrong. Mitchell Robinson is. He's averaging eight offensive rebounds per 36 minutes. It's like, it's like I saw somebody tweeted it. I'm sorry if I can't give you credit. My mind is going. It's like more than, like almost every team. How much they average per 36. But you point out here two things because I will tell you this. Joe Missoula, he's pretty good coach. He's a pretty good coach. And the Joe Missoula decided that the most important thing in the series with the Knicks last year was to get Mitch Robinson off the court. Said a lot, or maybe not the most important thing, but a high level on their game plan. And so you point out two things, Vince. Number one, that in this plan to keep Mitch Robinson healthy, which has worked, they're not playing him that many minutes. And how is that going to translate to the playoffs? And the second thing is there was hack and Mitch going on at a high level in last year's playoffs. That was when he shot 68% from the foul line. This year he's shooting 39% from the foul line. So while Mitch continues to be like the premium X factor in the Eastern Conference, what about conditioning for the playoffs? And what about that free throw situation that you bring up in this story?
- [34:02]
A
It's the double edged sword, right? Because the Knicks are one of those teams that they love to offensive rebound and kick it out and spray like that's one of Mike Brown's tenets. Spray back outside and get open shots. We know that a lot of times it's the best time to get three point shots is because the defense is in scramble mode. You can't track guys and they have a strategy with that. The problem is if Mitchell Robinson gets an offensive rebound before he even kicks it out, they're going to foul. I was about to, I was about to curse. They're going to foul him and foul him hard. Cause he getting the ball out of his hands. He's not trying to go up for a shot or anything like that. It's. They're going to have to be very judicious and how they use him in the postseason because he's so valuable and even on defense, like he is such a big body. He is a massive human being amongst massive human beings. It's almost like for every question there's an answer and then similarly there's, for every answer there's a question. And that is the duality of this New York Knicks season.
- [35:00]
C
Number one, 39% is crazy. But two, like you know you can, if you just pick up fouls in a playoff series in game two, you get three first half fouls on Jalen Duran and you go one to six from the line. Like you still did a great job there, right? You know, you got, you got some of these guys in foul trouble. So he's a massive factor. And, and if they're gonna, if they're going to hack a Robinson him off the floor, that shows you what type of Factor he is because they don't want him on the floor.
- [35:26]
B
Well, Sunday, I should point out the warriors are at the Garden.
- [35:29]
C
Yes.
- [35:30]
B
Are you doing this whole seven game road trip, Slater?
- [35:33]
C
So is a six gamer. I was waiting on the Steph update and talking to people and deciding I was going to do the whole six gamer if Steph is on it. But Steph is not on it. So I will be joining in Boston and doing the last four.
- [35:45]
B
Okay. Sorry. You won't see him there, Vince. I don't know if you're going to be there.
- [35:49]
A
I'll be there. I'll be there.
- [35:50]
B
So the Steph update is what? And the warriors update is what? They're playing the Wolves tomorrow at home. The Wolves need to get back when they just had a rough couple of days in LA. They've fallen below.500.
- [36:03]
E
Yeah.
- [36:03]
C
For the first time since like December. It's, it's a little bit of a kick the can down the road. It's the third straight time they've done a 10 day reevaluation which rules him out another five games. This absence will now stretch to 20 games, which is a massive chunk of the season. He had this issue popped up. Remember when they were in Minnesota, they had the baseball series. The first game got postponed. It was January 24th with, with the unrest in Minneapolis. He did an individual workout that day as everything in Minneapolis is going on around him and during a workout his knee swelled up and started hur. They threw it a couple games. But then against Detroit on January 30, he leaves in the third quarter after hitting an anwan floater and they just decide this was like five, six games before the All Star break. Hey, shut him down probably till the All Star break. Get this. Runner's knee is what they're calling it, right? There's no structural damage. They've MRI'd a few times. But it, when he works out, including during All Star weekend, it just hasn't responded well. It's swelling, it's dull pain, it's. Oh, it's really kind of an overuse injury and, and you know, they, they shut it down out of the break and now again it's going to be, it's going to reach up to 20 games. And I think that if they were, if Jimmy Butler was around and they were trying to like muscle their way into, you know, a top four type seed, if it was a different type situation with different realistic goals ahead of them this season, I think that they'd be throttling down a bit more but next season has become the season in this final step era. And I don't think at all they want to jeopardize that. And this is, from what I gather, an injury that, you know, they fear if you do put him back on the court and he's not quite ready, it could, you know, re injury, re aggravate whatever you want to say. So they know they're going to be in the 9, 10 at this point. I mean, I should say this. They know they're going to be in the play in. They've known they're going to be in the play in bracket for a while. If you look at what's going on in the play in right now, though, the Clippers are holding.
- [37:56]
B
Can I just say, in the last three days, the Clippers have moved above.500 and the warriors have moved below and therefore the Clippers have moved ahead. I'm just going to say, I don't know the health. I don't know about the aspiration. I wish I could say I've got strong reporting on the aspiration thing. I do not, you know, I mean, obviously I know what's been investigated and what Pablo Torre has reported and others. I don't know what's going to. I don't know what the resolution is going to be. I just don't. You know, there's a ton of talk about, there's a ton of rumors, nothing that I would say I can substantiate. So I just don't know. There's some stuff with the Clippers. I just don't know. I don't know whether Kawhi Leonard is going to be healthy. What I do know is this. The Clippers are now in eighth place and don't let them get to sixth with a healthy Kawhi because. And they're way back from six. They're six games back from six. I do not believe they can make that up.
- [38:50]
C
Okay, yeah, six is a lot right now.
- [38:53]
B
But I will also tell you they've got the third easiest schedule.
- [38:55]
C
Well, it's a good point. And again, I'm saying this more in like the warriors lens here and why I'm telling you they're trapped now in the910 because I think six out of the next eight Clippers games are against like lottery teams. Whereas the next five for the warriors, again, all without Steph Curry, are Minnesota. And then they go on this road trip that you mentioned, that's Knicks and then it's at Wizards. Okay. But then it's at Boston, at Detroit At Atlanta. They're in the next week or two. They're probably going to end up being like four or five games back of the Clippers. So you know, I can go a little Brian Windhorse right now. I can start you know, booking play in hotels. Like they're going to play the Portland Trailblazers. The 910 west play in week is going to be Blazers warriors in the910.
- [39:38]
B
The Blazers are going to be on the road. I have no, well, I shouldn't say that. No Blazers are going to be in the, in the 9:10 game. I agree.
- [39:44]
C
Yeah. I don't know which of those two teams is going to be 9 10. It's going to be close.
- [39:47]
B
I don't know how many more Warriors.
- [39:48]
A
Yes.
- [39:48]
B
The Suns are struggling right now. I'm sorry. The Suns have won three in a row, but the Suns take it back. The Suns could move out of the play and they're right on the Wolves heels. They've got a, they've got a five game gap between seven and eight. So the Suns are like hey, can we get into this top six? The Clippers have 17 games left and are six games out. That would be a miraculous. They would probably have to do something like go 15 and two.
- [40:13]
A
Right, right. It would have to be something.
- [40:15]
B
But they've gone on hot streaks, you
- [40:17]
C
know, before traded James Harden, traded Ivy to Zoo Watch. Like I know like right now they're playing well. Matheran. I think they're going to beat up, I know bad teams in the near future. But I'll say like that was them. I, you know, completely, you know, I guess pulling their ceiling out or like lowering their ceiling for the season. So I don't fear them that much in the six. I know how well Kawhi is playing right now but they. What was that? Their second and fourth best player. You know, basically they traded away the deadline like I don't know, I don't see it in a playoff series.
- [40:50]
B
All right, well right now also before I let Vince go back out to the game. The Pistons are up by nine at the half. It's halftime in Orlando. The Magic are beating the Wizards. The Wizards are trying to, you know, defend their honor as they. Orlando.
- [41:07]
A
What honor?
- [41:11]
B
I will say this. I don't know if you tsn, the Canadian sports network. Sam Mitchell, the former coach of the Raptors was on the Raptors post game show the other night. And like the Dolphins, like the 72 dolphins, every year when the last undefeated team loses, they pop champagne because Sam has been long derided for not being more aggressive on Kobe back in 2006 and Sam was enjoying Bam's cracking the Kobe mark. But anyway, the Magic had a nice quality win over the Cavs on Wednesday night. And at the risk of having Jackson have to edit this out if the Wizards beat them, the Magic are doing some things despite Franz Wagner. They gave a non update update. They were like, he's still progressing and he'll be we'll give you an update coming soon. So it's a high ankle sprain. I don't know.
- [42:15]
C
It was something that he was, it didn't feel like he was closer. And then I don't know. Like I don't know that they said setback, but it felt a little he's had setbacks.
- [42:22]
B
He multiple setbacks to this injury since the All Star break. The Orlando Magic, who it's often pointed out, have not been out of the bottom 10 in offense in 14 years, 20th or lower in offense for 14 consecutive years since the All Star break. They are 8 and 3 as a team. We'll see if they win tonight. We go 9 3. And they have the 8th best offense in that stretch and the number 3 defense in that stretch. They've been good defensive team for a couple years now, but eighth best offense. And if you, you know, watching that game last night, you know, Bancaro has we keep getting these updated numbers from Joel Glass. Let me give the updated numbers coming into tonight's game. JOEL glass, Magic since the All Star break, the Magic have an offensive rating of 117.8, which tied for seventh. Defensive rating 101, oh, 7.3 which is tied for third. And obviously Paolo, we've talked about Paolo a lot. His, his stats. So but forget about the stats. I'm going to move off the stats for a second. When you watch Magic play right now and you watch them pressure the rim and you watch them go in transition and you watch DEZ Bane and I'll tell you one thing, in this era of nobody hitting 65, Dez Bane has not missed a game. Knock on wood for dez. And he is coming, he's starting to, you know, when he's not throwing the ball at people, which let's knock that off, Des. But he is, you know, it's often said to me, or it has been said to me over the years that it takes longer for offense to come together than defense to come together, that everybody just assumes that when you bring in a great offensive player that it just clicks. But historically it takes longer offensively and I think the Cavs are actually having that growing pain a little bit right now. I know their record with Jason James Harden is good, but if you actually watch them, their offense has not been as potent since he got there. And I think that's part of a learning curve that they are dealing with the Magic, with Bane and also with this alignment, are coming into their own. And you know, I'm going to talk about the Clippers, you know, watch out. Well, the Magic have moved out of the playing zone. They've moved into fifth. The Raptors have lost six of 10. The Raptors really have not fared well against.
- [44:31]
A
They can't beat good teams. Yeah, they can't beat good teams at all.
- [44:34]
B
There's still seven games over.500, but they've slipped all the way to seventh now and the Magic are in fifth. And you know, BPI, I don't really pay that much attention to BPI, but BPI says that Cavs Magic is going to be likely going to be a four or five matchup. So I'll just point out, Vince, that the Magic are, are, are. Are. Are showing some teeth on offense and that's, that's a significant development in the East.
- [44:59]
A
Look, I, I think it goes back to Paulo Bancaro and Jamal Mosley having, I won't say war of words that would be a bit strong. But ban Caro, after they lost to Detroit, Bankero talked about us not, you know, we didn't make adjustments and Jamal Mosley said they just played harder than us. And since then it felt like a dam has broken where maybe some of that underlying tension can play itself out and people can clear the air. And like you said, Desmond Bane figuring things out in this offense. Where we looked at in the off season, a lot of us thought where Detroit is, Orlando would be because of this acquisition, because of assumed help with Banchero and Wagner being on the floor together at the same time, like it's starting to come around. I will say this about the Harden thing. So I was talking to an executive about trade deadline moves, teams who didn't make them. And he, and he said to me, what trade deadline moves have actually worked? And I thought about it and I said, Rasheed Wallace, of course, 2004, Dikembe Mutombo, 2001, 76ers. They got to the Finals. Dikembe for Theo Ratliff, Pau Gasol, which wasn't a trade deadline move, I don'. Think, but it was.
- [46:06]
B
That's true. It was December.
- [46:07]
A
It was a, it was an earlier season. I Think it was after Andrew Biden got heard it was a mid season move, and he was like, yeah, four of those instances or whatever it was. Maybe it was one more like four of those instances out of 20x amount of years. Like, these things don't happen that often, even if it seems like all of us can play fantasy gm. So the point about the Harden thing was if Harden falls into that category. It's what you talked about, Wendy, the expected struggle, especially for a player who has as much control of the offense as Harden does, you know, not that he commandeers anything, but he is the system.
- [46:41]
B
This is not exactly comparable because of the dynamics of that trade, but look at the Kevin Durant trade a couple years ago. I mean, they took their whole team and turned it sideways. But that Durant trade to Phoenix, like, you know, that didn't work out, you know, short term or long term, but, you know, that's, that's. I mean, you know, Durant's never said, I am the system, but you could say about Durant, he's the system.
- [47:02]
C
Wendy, can I detour you one more time before this podcast? I don't allow that.
- [47:05]
B
No, we focus on the podcast.
- [47:07]
C
No, it's. I watched that Magic Cavs game last night, the one we're matching in Magic. Nice win. Bain looked great, but I see Keon ellis hitting like three threes and like late in the fourth quarter look great, right? What did he play, 30 minutes?
- [47:19]
B
Yeah, he's played 30 minutes a couple times in a row.
- [47:21]
C
Yeah. I mean, you're obviously locked in on the Cavs a lot. You know, on the blow by blow. How good has he been?
- [47:26]
B
He's been exactly what the Cavs thought they were getting from a defensive. You know, he's a defensive playmaker. You know, he gets his hand on a ton of balls, he creates steals, he creates fast break opportunities. You know, defensive playmakers are kind of hard to find.
- [47:40]
C
It's kind of why I'm asking because, like, he was very extremely available at the deadline for anybody in the league. And, you know, the Kings just never got there, you know, asking price of a first round pick. They obviously ended up pivoting and basically using him to dump the Dennis Schroeder contract. And he's always been like, coaches have never trusted him the way that front offices and scouts love him and that the local fans in Sacramento loved him. But, you know, it's obviously not a great look for the Kings to basically get off him. And he's like a, you know, closer at times for an Eastern Conference team. And I just. I don't know. I just watched it last night. It was one of the things.
- [48:12]
B
Well, I will say this. He's been. I think he's been. And this could be. I'm pretty sure Bobby Marks briefed me on this because. But I think he's trade eligible. I mean, extension eligible.
- [48:23]
C
He's. Yes, February 9th, he was extension eligible. It's part of the reason the Kings had to trade him, even though.
- [48:28]
B
And the Cavs haven't signed him yet.
- [48:30]
C
Yeah.
- [48:30]
B
So, I mean, what is, what, what that tells you is, you know, that
- [48:34]
C
he thinks he's playing himself into a bigger deal and maybe that's why he didn't have questions. Quite the, you know, I guess market that the Kings were hoping he would at the deadline. But like, this guy was really available to a lot of teams and you mentioned it. Defensive playmaker, deflection, King steals, all that. And I just, you know, he might end up being a really real factor in the playoffs. And I think it could look bad on the league in the general that nobody went out and grabbed him. And then also like the Kings, but that's. That's a deeper story about the Kings just losing him for nothing, basically.
- [49:03]
B
All right, well, thank you very much, Vince. You gotta go get to get to work. By the way, Jackson went and found it for me. That Brian Shaw story was an interview with Melissa Rowland, who I believe was with Fox at the time, but she is now California. California Post.
- [49:16]
A
So more journalism jobs. Positive.
- [49:18]
B
Yes. All right, thanks, guys. We will be talking to you guys soon and have a great weekend.
- [49:24]
D
More Hoop Collective podcast after this quick timeout. Some breakfast intel you want to know about. Kodiak frozen power Waffles and flapjacks are built for busy mornings. Heat it, eat it, and you're out the door. No long prep, no complicated game plan. They're packed with 12 to 14 grams
- [49:42]
F
of protein per serving, a good source
- [49:44]
D
of fiber, and crafted with 100% whole
- [49:48]
F
grains, not refined white flour.
- [49:50]
D
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- [50:08]
F
They're the ones with the bear on the box. Rich Eisen here. The tax deadline will be here before you know it and you just want to know your taxes are actually being handled. But the old way, you hand everything off and then silence days Pass, weeks pass, you start wondering, should I send another follow up email? It feels like you're chasing updates and getting nowhere. But now taxes are different. Because your taxes are done for you by a TurboTax full service expert. With Intuit TurboTax, you can match with your dedicated tax expert and hand off everything right in the app. And while your expert checks for every deduction, you'll see real time updates on your phone. So you always know exactly where things stand. Suddenly you're not refreshing your inbox, you're going for a run, grabbing a coffee, scrolling anything other than a just checking in message. Because your TurboTax expert is handling it and keeping you in the loop. So this tax season, get your best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve without the guesswork. Visit TurboTax.com today to learn more. Real time updates only in iOS mobile app only available with TurboTax full service experts.
- [51:18]
A
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- [51:55]
B
Okay. Always special when we have Alex Spiro, one of the nation's leading trial attorneys. He's coming from an undisclosed location with an undisclosed client list. Just for fun, just google him. Just google him. Alex, I'm just gonna tell you this. There's a guy who I know in the NBA who, how should I put it, you know who he is? He's a security consultant. Okay. He's a fixer. And he once described his job to me as Brian. They call me in when it's 4th and 20. Well, they call Alex in when 4th and 20 didn't work. So I'll just, I'll just leave it at that. He's represented a number of NBA players, but most important, Alex and the way that you want to be introduced and the way that you want you identify yourself is a die hard Celtic. Not a Celtic fan. You're a Celtic. And not only that, like I know you know what's going on with the team. But anyway, welcome to our humble podcast yet again.
- [52:48]
E
Good to see you guys. I tune in every time, so it's good to see you, you know, face to Face.
- [52:53]
B
Yes. Okay. Now we are doing this before they. The Celtics play the Thunder tonight. Jason Tatum is sitting out tonight. The reason we're having this now is because you are a no nonsense man. You have no nonsense business. You have inside, inside information. I want to know what you think about the way Tatum looks and what you think about where the Celtics are. Now that we've seen Tatum play for
- [53:16]
E
a few games, I'd like him to play tonight so I could see them be the top team. You know, we lost to the Spurs. There was a questionable backseat driving, technical foul you, you might have seen lost to the Wolves.
- [53:27]
B
Can I just say real quick. Cause I'm famous for ripping the. The. The. You are correct. The referee who called the first technical did not call the second technical. The referee that called the first technical, Tyler Ford, who has been on our podcast. We are Tyler Ford defenders here. Having said that, I have not talked to Tyler, but I will just say I don't think Tyler would have thrown Jalen out. It was a younger junior referee who came in to, quote, unquote, have Tyler's back that threw Jaylen Brown out of the game. I do not think it was the way it should have gone down. Joe Missoula, after the game compared it to, like, the principal not letting the assistant principal do his dirty work. I actually think Joe was right and I think what you just said was right. Having said that, counselor, Jalen's got to control himself more in that situation.
- [54:13]
E
Sure. I think we could have won that game. So we lose to the spurs, we lost to the Wolves. We lost to the Nuggets. I would have liked to have seen Tatum and the full roster play tonight because I think we need a win like that. Losing record to the Knicks, losing record to the Pistons. But that being said, I'm. I'm bullish. I think we're going to the finals. I've got the hotel room booked, you know, so I'm. I'm ready. I'm ready to go.
- [54:34]
B
You've got the Ritz booked. I've got the Courtyard booked, buddy. The hotel room booked. Where In Boston?
- [54:40]
E
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [54:42]
B
I mean, you're not predicting who they're going to play. You don't. I will pick a Western Conference team. Like, I mean, let me know when you book hotel rooms in the west and then we'll talk.
- [54:50]
E
I'm playing the field still, but yeah, I like the Celtics. Tatum looked great, and for a few games back, he looks great. The team looks great. They're focused, and I think he fits in perfectly, and they designed it as such. And when you talk to the team, you know, the culture and just the fight that they have, it just rings out from all the way through, from ownership all the way down. And so I think they've built something special here, and I think they're going to go to the final.
- [55:13]
B
It's a new ownership situation now. So new, you know. Have you detected any difference in the way the Celtics are operating? I know Wick Reesebach is still around, but it's new ownership now.
- [55:22]
E
Yeah, Bill's great. Wick has remained in his spot, and everybody is just says the world of Wick. Brad is a rock. Mike Zarin's great. I mean, you see the culture, it reminds you a little bit of the Patriots dynasty, the culture there. And you see it at this with the stars. I mean, Tatum, the amount of goodwill and respect that Tatum has around the league for the way he came back, the Mamba mentality, the way people are talking about him, you can see how well respected he is both inside the team and out. And then even little things like when Cornette comes back and everyone's cheering for him, you can just see that this is a special organization. And I think they're. I think they're prime for another several finals.
- [56:00]
B
I would agree with that. Now, let me just tell you that I'm going to tell you what the scouts are now saying to me, because they've now watched Tatum for a little bit, and nothing that I'm about to say is surprising. Okay. It's not a criticism. Also, you know, I think Tatum's return has gone as well as they possibly could have imagined it and drawn it up. And I think he looks great. And I'm also on the record many times, and I will just do it again here, saying that Jason doesn't have to be. Be ready to go in the highest level today. He needs to be ready to go in the highest level six weeks from now when the second round begins, which is where I think they're going to need him the most. But the scouts will tell you. The scouts who've watched him will tell you that. Absolutely. You can tell how he protects the right leg. And that while, I mean, I. I pointed out that his first shot against the Mavericks a week ago, he sort of did. I. I called it a step back, but I was corrected by an expert, a guy named Robert Oliver, who emailed me, who is a PhD researcher in biomechanics. And he said that it is not. It was not a step back. It was what's called a false step. And I'll maybe learn more about that. Nonetheless, I felt it was a little bit symbolic that he showed that he would push off the right leg. That's what I'm having said that the scouts say, look, the right leg is weaker and he sometimes is protecting it. And you know, some teams, they, I talked to a scout who said he thought some teams were being a little charitable the first couple of games and not attacking him and that they will attack him more on that side. So what I'm saying is is that I expect us to continue to learn and watch about how Jason is and this very much to be a process.
- [57:45]
E
Yeah, I think that's right. By the same token, he doesn't have to be, you know, Tatum of last year year, Jalen has ascended to being a first team all NBA type scorer or just straight up first NBA, first team, all NBA. And Jalen is surveying the court. Some of that's the injury, some of it's psychology, some of it's that he's been able to watch the team for so long and if he ends up in more of a triple double role and less of a, I'm going to attack every play role. I think that that may be a blessing in disguise. It may lead to less your turn, my turn kind of stuff that he and Jalen can do. So there's some benefit to that. And then listen, look at the top scorers in the league, people like Jalen Luca, you don't have to necessarily have explosiveness to find the angles. Jason has incredible footwork. He's Also a big 6 10, he shoots high release point. He's going to be able to score and see the court. You can see him snatching those rebounds. And just think about his, who he is replacing. I mean, he's a huge upgrade trade. Who did better at the, at the turn of the trade deadline than getting Jason Tatum back, even 85%. So absolutely. You know, I think they look great. The team chemistry, the culture and I don't see why they can't come out of the East. And I think they will come out of the East.
- [58:58]
B
All right, let me ask you as an officer of the court, let me ask you this. If you were turning, if you had a vote for mvp, what would your MVP ballot look like? I want to see how impartial you can be here. Let's see.
- [59:09]
E
Yeah. What's Polymarket saying these days? I mean, I think you've got to
- [59:12]
B
factor in Polymarket should follow the bond temps poll because Bond Temps Research has routinely proven to be predictive.
- [59:19]
E
We should do the bond temps polymarket poll. We should sort of merge the two. But I don't know, maybe Jared's A in games played. I mean if Shea.
- [59:28]
B
And interesting you say that tonight Victor was ruled out of the game with an A with ankle soreness and he only he has, I think he can miss four games. So I don't know how significant that is. But yes, of course you, you can, you can include that in your answer. Like, but as of today, you know, Shay and Victor have, have not missed games to the level where they would be ruled out. But Victor and Shay are both sort of somewhat close.
- [59:56]
E
Yeah, I think it's gotta be Shay, Victor and then Cade and Jalen.
- [59:59]
B
Excellent ballot. I respect, I respect that ballot. Let me, let me ask you this. As long as I'm asking you to, to give me a ruling. Give me a ruling on BAM Adebayos 83 points.
- [60:09]
E
Oh, it was great.
- [60:09]
C
It was great.
- [60:11]
E
After Celtics culture, after Celtics culture, the Heat would be right up there. And he's just an awesome player and I love watching him play and you know, let him go once he's got 70 late in the game, let him go, let him try. And it was without hitting many threes. It was a hell of a game.
- [60:28]
B
So the Celtics, their, their team is very, very different from, from the last two last. You know, if you go back and look really since 20, sort of the 22 to 25 era where they made two finals and then last year I thought they were going to the finals. I had my hotel, my hotels booked in Boston for months and months, probably longer than I had in booked smokel in the city. But they're a very, very different team now. They're, they're, you know, their culture is the same. You know, their style of play is the same. They still want to shoot a ton of threes. They still still focus on low turnovers. But this is a very different team and you're going to be relying. Now look, the basis of the Celtics is they have three two way awesome two way guys. You know, the Jays and Derrick White play both ends of the court perimeter players, ball handlers, can defend great. All three of them can hit a clutch shot. And then obviously Peyton Pritchard is, he has his role, but you are going to be relying in the playoffs on role players who have not done it before. Largely. I don't consider Peyton Pritchard. I mean he is a role player, but I'll put him in almost in a starter Quality. Do you believe that these guys who haven't done this before will be able to deliver like those role players for the last few years who proved themselves. Al Horford, Porzingis, when he was healthy, you know, guys like that. Do you, do you believe that this team has that, that, that build out of the roster that you need to win three playoff series?
- [62:00]
E
Yeah, and I think we're skipping over Cato, I think we're skipping over the fact that because of Porzingis's health and Al, you know, not being as young as he once was, that you've got an upgraded center, you've got this inspiration of Tatum coming back this way and a culture that cultivates confidence and excitement amongst the role players. And they got a lot of role players. They're deeper than they have been in, in a decade. So that, that counts for something. And I think the team will pull the right strings and keep the right guys in at different times. And they play this spread Duke College like basketball and they've got enough two way players that, that I just think the other teams in the east have weaknesses that they did not solve at the break, they did not solve at the trade deadline and that the Celtics should, should win.
- [62:50]
B
You sound like Jim Dolan. They should win. They should win. Okay.
- [62:53]
E
Not a clear, you know, Tatum is coming back and I don't think it's a runaway. I mean the Pistons are tough. The Knicks have what they need. The Cavs are very good.
- [63:02]
B
I think the Celtics match up well with the Cavs.
- [63:04]
E
Yes.
- [63:05]
B
And they see the wing strength of the Celtics show really shows up with the Cavs.
- [63:10]
A
Yeah.
- [63:10]
E
And I think the Pistons are missing the score, you know, need one more score. And so then you're left with, you know, are we talking about a, a, a Knicks Celtics Eastern Conference finals and boy, will that be a hell of a run back.
- [63:24]
B
Has been said for well over a year. The Knicks have invested enormous amounts of assets and money in building their team to beat Boston. The they built their team with strong wings to do it. And it was. And I mean I think they beat this. I was somebody who very strongly believed that the Celtics would win that series last year. I even believe the Celtics would win, win it when they were down 2 0. But also very much believe that the Knicks flat out took it and that it was going to be 3:1 and that they were going to win even if Tatum hadn't gotten hurt. Because I think the Knicks proved that the way they played could work against Boston. That still exists. They are still even with the different coach, they still have those weapons. I still am mystified the way Games 1 and 2 went. But. But the fact that they won both of them, sort of, you know, and the way that. And the way that they, you know, won game four and then were so powerful in game six, like, it validated that stretch like that still is there that, you know, the Knicks have that.
- [64:31]
E
We were unexplainably lax at the beginning and the game Tatum got hurt. I mean, you don't. You can't tell me a better game played by a player in recent years or a harder game played. He was. Was unstoppable and so ferocious.
- [64:46]
B
But they were going to lose that game, right?
- [64:48]
E
I mean, I know we were. It was down to the wire, but his. His. His performance was something else. And in any event, I don't think, given what's happened in the last 10 months with his comeback, they will be lax going into this.
- [64:59]
B
But.
- [65:00]
E
But again, Tatum's. Tatum's health is key, and OG has been playing great. I mean, he's really their wing that can guard. I think there are other players are a bit small for Jalen and. And Tatum, and so it's really OG verse a little bit.
- [65:16]
B
That's true. That's why they got him. That's why they are. That's why they paid him the max. Not just what they traded for him. It's why they paid him the max. All right, Alex, well, am I going to have you back on. I'm going to have you back on after the conference finals, and we're going to see whether your confidence was accurate. I do think Boston probably. If I had to rank the percentages, I think I would put. I think, you know, I would put Boston as the highest percentage, but it would be something like in the high 20, maybe 30%. Like, there's a lot of things that could still go on there.
- [65:49]
E
Listen, even saying that with Tatum just coming back just tells you all you need to know about, you know, the heart of the Celtics. You know what I'm saying?
- [65:56]
B
Absolutely. All right, well, you're on the record.
- [65:59]
E
I'll see you. I will see you after the Eastern Conference finals, if not sooner. And certainly I'll let you know where I'm staying in Boston.
- [66:07]
B
All right, sounds good. Thank you very much, Alex. Spiro, we'll see you soon. All right, everybody, thank you so much. Thank you to all of our producers, Mark Jackson and Tucker and Devon, as always, thank you to Vince Goodwill and Anthony Slater, who joined us earlier. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.