A Fix For Tanking? Expansion Teams Coming Soon? NBA To Europe?

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective Episode: A Fix For Tanking? Expansion Teams Coming Soon? NBA To Europe? Release Date: March 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Hoop Collective, ESPN's Brian Windhorst is joined by fellow insiders Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to dissect the latest developments in the NBA. The discussion covers a range of topics, including potential NBA expansion, the looming creation of a European league, significant team sales, and the pervasive issue of tanking within the league.

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NBA Expansion and the European League Initiative

Board of Governors Meeting Insights

At the recent NBA Board of Governors meeting in New York City, significant discussions took place regarding the league's future expansion plans and international ventures. Tim Bontemps highlights that the meeting featured two distinct press conferences, one of which focused extensively on the potential establishment of a European league.

Relationship with FIBA and Euroleague

The conversation delved into the strained relationship between the NBA, FIBA (the international basketball federation), and the Euroleague. Historically, FIBA managed the Euroleague, but recent tensions have led the NBA to explore forming its own European counterpart. Tim MacMahon points out, "The NBA is partnering with FIBA, essentially trying to replace the Euroleague."

Adam Silver’s Strategic Positioning

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver emphasized the league's intent to maintain openness and transparency about the European league initiative. However, Bontemps suggests that Silver’s statements might be a strategic move to gauge interest and secure partnerships with prominent European teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona. He remarks, "What the NBA is doing is walking in the front door and saying, hey fellas, listen, we are coming over here. We are going to do a league."

Potential Outcomes and Speculations

The team speculates that if major European franchises decline to join the NBA's proposed league, the NBA may proceed to establish new teams across Europe, creating a dynamic similar to the existence of NBA franchises in Las Vegas and Seattle. MacMahon humorously anticipates, "It wouldn't be the Celtics versus London."

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Celtics Sale and Ownership Structure

Sale Details and 6th Street Involvement

The discussion shifts to the high-profile sale of the Boston Celtics. The sale involves a private equity firm, 6th Street, which aims to acquire a 20% stake in the team. Tim Bontemps explains, "He said there was no discussion at all of changing the rules governing sales."

Regulatory Considerations

Current NBA rules stipulate that a single private equity firm cannot own more than 20% of a team, and the controlling owner must retain at least a 15% stake. However, the $6.1 billion price tag of the Celtics sale has sparked speculation that the NBA might consider rule modifications to facilitate such high-value transactions.

Impact on Team Operations

Brian Windhorst adds that the sale's structure could impact the Celtics' payroll and financial strategies, stating, "Whoever buys the team is faced with losing nine figures next year if the Celtics don't reduce this payroll."

Ownership Transition Dynamics

The new controlling owner, Bill Chisholm, is expected to own less than 20% of the team, marking a significant shift in ownership dynamics. Windhorst notes, "He was asked specifically about this bond temps... He had something to say to fans in Seattle who are coming up on 17 years since the Sonics."

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Minnesota Timberwolves Sale and Future Prospects

Arbitration Ruling and Ownership Change

The Minnesota Timberwolves' sale has been ongoing for over two years, with key figures Mark Laurie and Alex Rodriguez contesting the current ownership under Glenn Taylor. Tim Bontemps updates, "Six weeks ago, Laurie was declared the winner of that arbitration."

Implications for Team Roster and Management

Windhorst highlights the significance of the sale for the Timberwolves' future roster decisions, including key free agents like Julius Randle, Nas Reed, and Alexander Walker. The pending change in ownership will determine how much capital is available for re-signing these players, which critically impacts the team's competitive prospects.

Executive Leadership

The role of respected NBA executive Tim Connolly is also under scrutiny, as his ability to opt out of his contract could influence the team's strategic direction post-sale.

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Tanking Epidemic and Potential Solutions

Current State of Tanking in the NBA

Tanking, the practice of teams deliberately losing games to secure higher draft picks, remains a contentious issue in the NBA. The episode discusses recent instances involving the Washington Wizards, Philadelphia 76ers, and Brooklyn Nets, emphasizing how these teams are maneuvering within the league's draft system.

Draft Lottery and Incentive Structures

Tim Bontemps explains the complexities of the draft lottery, noting that minor changes in team standings can significantly impact draft positions. For example, moving from the fifth to the seventh worst record can alter a team's draft odds by approximately 25%.

NBA's Response and Potential Reforms

Adam Silver and NBA strategists, including Evan Wash, have acknowledged the problem and are contemplating reforms. However, the solutions remain vague, with Silver stating, "We will see what they end up coming up with as a 'fix.'"

Proposed Solutions and Expert Opinions

• Flat Lottery Odds: Brian Windhorst suggests flattening the lottery odds to reduce incentives for tanking. "Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome," he quotes Charlie Munger, advocating for an overhaul of incentive structures.

• Protected Picks Adjustment: Bontemps and MacMahon discuss the implications of adjusting pick protections to discourage teams from manipulating their records for better draft positions.

• Season Schedule Modifications: Shortening the NBA season is floated as a potential way to minimize the number of tanking-prone games, though opinions vary on its efficacy.

Challenges in Implementing Reforms

Despite the recognition of the problem, both hosts express skepticism about the NBA's ability to effectively curb tanking without unintended consequences. Tim MacMahon emphasizes, "Teams are going to tank when there are elite prospects like Wembanyama."

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Anecdotes and Personal Stories

Courtside Experiences and Injuries

Brian Windhorst shares humorous yet harrowing tales from his time covering the NBA, including incidents where he was accidentally hit by a basketball thrown by Jerome James and a shoe tossed by Derek Fisher. These stories highlight the unexpected challenges reporters face while courtside.

Relationship with Team Owners and Players

The hosts reminisce about interactions with prominent figures like Mark Cuban of the Dallas Mavericks, illustrating the evolving dynamics between team owners, players, and the media over the years.

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Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the NBA continues to navigate expansion, team sales, and the tanking dilemma, The Hoop Collective concludes with a cautious optimism. The insiders anticipate that expansion is more imminent than ever, with significant implications for both domestic and international basketball landscapes. The ongoing efforts to address tanking will require innovative solutions to preserve the integrity and competitiveness of the league.

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Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst [03:40]: "When they say NBA is looking to create expansion teams and in Europe, not NBA expansion teams. Wouldn't it be the Celtics versus London."

• Tim MacMahon [16:10]: "Patrick Dumont was in the building today. He was asked specifically about this, and he had something to say to fans in Seattle..."

• Brian Windhorst [40:42]: "Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome."

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This episode provides an in-depth analysis of the NBA's strategic directions and the internal challenges it faces. Whether you're an avid fan or a casual observer, the discussions offer valuable insights into the league's evolving landscape.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

Taxact can think of a million things more fun than filing taxes. TaxAct is going to name some now. Sitting in traffic, folding a fitted bedsheet, listening to your co worker talk about his fantasy team digging a hole. Digging an even larger hole next to that original hole. Unfortunately, TaxAct's filing software can't make taxes fun, but TaxAct can help you get them done. TaxAct, let's get them over with. Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday evening. Joining us from New York City, where he spent the day at the NBA's board of governors, aka the owners meetings, Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Los Angeles, California, where he spent the day in the TV studio because that's the kind of guy he is. Promoting his new book, the wonder Boy is the author, Tim Band McMahon.

[Tim MacMahon]

Howdy, partners. Wendy, I am proud to say that you and I are friends. Best friends. No, no, no. Good friends.

[Brian Windhorst]

Friends on the day. Friends, friends, friends.

[Tim MacMahon]

And I will always claim you as my friend on the record for everybody here. Something that, by the way, just for the record, you have never, ever done with LeBron James. Not one single time have I ever heard you say that you were friends, much less best friends with LeBron James. I did. You know, I don't know if LeBron knows this podcaster named JJ Redick. I think he's coaching the Los Angeles Lakers. I bet you LeBron sees him all the time, actually, now that I think about it. Well, there's this time. You went on JJ Redick's podcast last year, and I was tuning in. I was like, wow, this is really interesting. And I heard you on that podcast say, I don't think LeBron James likes me. And you weren't complaining, you were just simply stating fact. Because sometimes when you cover people and you don't just kiss their butt, regardless of circumstances, and you cover them honestly, fair and accurately and. But it might not always be flattering, sometimes people get mad at you, and that's just part of life as a reporter. Now, that doesn't mean you can't do things like write a New York Times bestseller or two on that particular subject, as I hope to do with Luka Doncic, who I've never claimed to be best friends with, who certainly wouldn't claim to be my friend. But that's just kind of life as a journalist. You can't always be loved, but you gotta be honest, you gotta be fair, you gotta be accurate. LeBron James is loved by many. He was not honest, he was not fair, he was not accurate. And that's all I gotta say about that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you, Mr. McMahon. I hope your book does very well. We look forward to celebrating its continued success. Bond temps There was a lot of news that came out of the board of governors meeting today. You know, I don't really like talking about transition.

[Tim MacMahon]

Go on. Jeez.

[Brian Windhorst]

What do you mean to say? What do you mean to say?

[Tim MacMahon]

Well said.

[Tim Bontemps]

I stumbled over a few things per usual. Sorry.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, I didn't hire music spoke. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's, you know, sometimes these board of governors meetings can be pretty dry. Today there was quite a bit of things for Adam Silver to cover. You were there for all of it. Where should we start?

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it was interesting that there were two, essentially two press conferences in one. It was a first. They spent half an hour literally just discussing this European league, I think for our listeners, which I think European League's worth discussing at some point.

[Tim MacMahon]

Did you fall asleep during that half hour?

[Tim Bontemps]

No, I did not.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was, I just want to say, just so because people are going to see the headlines and I, and I apologize if this is overly basic, but that's sometimes my role. Sorry. When they say NBA is looking to create expansion teams and in Europe, not NBA expansion teams.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wouldn't. It wouldn't be the Celtics versus London.

[Tim MacMahon]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

We're.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're about to touch on.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right.

[Tim MacMahon]

They're trying to live golf, the Euroleague.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, yeah, sort of. I mean, yeah, to it. There were a lot of interesting subplots of this European, of this press conference about this European league. For it's a lot of inside basketball or inside baseball, depending on how you want to phrase it. Stuff like, like for example, there's a long standing beef between fiba, the like FIFA of basketball and the Euroleague and people who follow basketball know this, but the fiba, the head of FIBA sitting up there with Adam Silver and wouldn't call the Euro League by its name. He just kept calling it that league. You know, like there's a lot of.

[Tim MacMahon]

Stuff that's like, that's like when Bill Parcells used to talk about to when he'd call him the player.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, there was a lot of. There's a lot of that going on. And for example, this all goes back to the Euroleague, which Real Madrid is in. All the, all the teams people have heard up in Europe, they're all in the Euroleague. And FIBA used to run the Euroleague. It doesn't anymore. It's been a long standing problem in European basketball. Now the NBA is partnering with fiba. They're essentially trying to replace the Euroleague. Adam Silver today goes, hey, we're just trying to be open and upfront about this idea of creating a league because we think it's the healthiest way to, to do all of this. That's. I would call it a white lie. What the NBA is doing is walking in the front door and saying, hey fellas, listen, we are coming over here. We are going to do a league. What we would love is for Real Madrid and Barcelona and Bayern Munich to all be part of this league. If you guys don't want to be part of this league, that's fine. We're just going to create teams then over there and we'll go head to head with you instead. So that's a white lie.

[Tim MacMahon]

Like when LeBron said when he tries to claim he's best friends with him.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, we don't need to do this the whole. So we will see. We will see where all that goes. It's very interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

This will be covered in our Spanish language version the ro colectivo.

[Tim Bontemps]

The interesting. The. That was an interesting half an hour for a variety of reasons. It'll have some potential long term impacts on the NBA and basketball as a whole. I thought the most interesting thing of the day I, I will. I asked him about it in particular was back in September at the last board of governors meeting. Adam Silver said expansion will be addressed at some point this season. Over the past few years there's been talk about we need to get the TV deal done, we need to get the CBA done check over the past several months, I think we would all agree, I would say numerous sources around the league have repeatedly said the league has to get the sale of the Celtics done before expansion will start kind of check.

[Tim MacMahon]

Those are all big checks though. The TV deal is a massive check. The Celtics deal is the historically large check.

[Tim Bontemps]

And that the $6.1 billion that the Celtics went for as we talk about last week, obviously an interesting factor in that. So I think the most important thing that Adam said was once the Celtics sale has been analyzed and processed and finished off probably what I assume would be by the July board of governors meetings, the NBA is going to quote, turn to turn to expansion in a more serious way at that point. And I think this is the clearest.

[Brian Windhorst]

Indication that's lawyer eas but I get.

[Tim Bontemps]

I get lawyer ease, but it's the clearest indication yet that we have gotten through the preliminary stages of disgusting expansion and starting whether it's this summer or this Fall. We're going to ramp this thing up in some level and get fully into the beginning of the expansion process.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay, but what's the. What's the mystery about the expansion process? Who's going to. Who's going to be the controlling parties of the various. You know, there's a couple. It ain't. It ain't where. It's.

[Tim Bontemps]

When.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hold on.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's a couple things.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hold on. About that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Go ahead, Brian.

[Brian Windhorst]

Probably going to be Seattle and Las Vegas, and there's probably going to be expansion. Not definitely Las Vegas and Seattle. Not definitely expansion. But Adam was at. There was. There was people from Seattle there today, and he was asked specifically about this bond temps. I read this in your story and he. He had a. He had something to say to fans in Seattle who are coming up on 17 years since the Sonics.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct. There was a guy from the Seattle Times there who asked about, you know, hey, look for people in Seattle who have been waiting for a team to come back since 2008. What would you say to those people? He said, I wish I could be. I wish I could be more conclusive today and say, quote, here it is. Here's the timeline. There are events that are clearly outside of my control. Then went through a bunch of legalese, blah, blah, blah. Quote. Having said that, though, I would just say again to our many fans at Seattle, and I hear from them often that the legacy and the legacy of the Sonics is still very strong. It's a fantastic basketball market and we are very focused on it. The fact I think that I'm not being more sort of forthcoming publicly doesn't mean we're not studying it very intensively. We don't take those fans for granted. We're thankful that their interest has remained over all these years. I would just say the fact that we're not making any public announcements with a specific timeline doesn't mean we don't care a lot about those fans and we aren't focused on the potential for the NBA to return to Seattle. I think the Celtics sale, which he talked about a little bit, I asked him if there's any potential changes to the ownership structure of teams because private equity firm 6th street is getting 20% of this team. There's been some questions about. Hold.

[Brian Windhorst]

Too fast. I'm sorry, Bontems. Too fast.

[Tim MacMahon]

Stop. Are you guys going to start fighting again?

[Brian Windhorst]

We'll talk about the Celtics in a second. I want to focus more on what he. If you're. If you're from Seattle and you want the Sonics back certainly what Silver said there, you can't take that to the bank. But Silver was basically saying, just, just hang with us. We haven't forgot about you. Hang with us. And I realize if you've been waiting, and I know that the, you know, I know some people in Seattle who are, you know, invested in this process more than most. They've been so frustrated that, you know, they were expecting something last summer and then it was told wait. And then they were expecting something in September and they were told wait. And now they come to the spring and then they're told wait. And. And that's frustrating. But I do think Silver basically flashed the green light that, you know, it's, it's things are going. He did not put up a stop sign.

[Tim MacMahon]

And I, yeah, you being able to translate that from lawyer talk into English, I appreciate that. I did not get a law degree during my eight year college tenure, and you need one to understand some of this stuff.

[Tim Bontemps]

I've asked Adam a lot about expansion over the past few years, ever since he said they were beginning to look at it back in 2021 during one of the COVID pressers. And there's been a lot of times when he's put the pump the brakes on this process. What I would say about today is he very clearly didn't pump the brakes on the process. And the only thing he really said was we just got to wait to make sure the Celtics are sold. But you talk to anybody in the NBA, and I'm sure we've all talked to people about it over the last week, since that $6.1 billion number came out last week, there's just been a lot of big green lights around the league. Green for cash money and green for. I don't know exactly what year we're talking about. Maybe it's 2028, maybe it's 2030, whatever. But sometime, and I would say the relatively near future, I feel very confident this league is going to expand by a couple teams for gigantic amounts of money. And it's probably, as Brian said, going to be Vegas and Seattle. There's some chances it's somewhere else. We'll see how this whole process plays out. But what's clear is the league is moving in the direction of officially openly diving into this thing publicly. They've been studying it behind the scenes for a long time. They've been preparing for it for a long time. But I think today just confirmed what we thought last week, which is that the idea that expansion is coming, I think is very real. A very real possibility for the league.

[Tim MacMahon]

Sonic Green Lights baby. More hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

And there's a whole bunch of stuff I guess we can talk about the Celtics sale. I asked them about the structure of the Celtics sale and whether which as I said before, there's a private equity firm called 6th street named after 6th street in Austin. As we briefly talked about we were.

[Brian Windhorst]

Some of our listeners you actually McMahon, you were correct. It is named after the six covered.

[Tim MacMahon]

His ground and please don't act surprised that I'm right about something.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know trying to give you credit, trying to give our friends on the on the financial media, great, great job.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's the only thing I've got financially. Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. There's been some questions about the structure of the deal that the Celtics are doing at the moment and Silver said that there are no, there was no discussion at all of changing the rules governing sales. As of now, the current rules are a group, a private equity group like 6th street can own 20 of a team. They also can't own more than the person that's the controlling owner of the team, which has to own at least 15. No, it's a little technical but we'll see where that stuff lands. He also was asked about Wick Graham public statements that he's going to continue running the team through 2028. It was alluded to that Mark Cuban once said that and then now is not and his his successor then put this Luka Doic trade through and therefore could there be problems like that in Boston, which was I think an interesting way to phrase the question.

[Tim MacMahon]

Patrick Dumont was kind enough to call Cuban and have a two minute conversation after the trade was done.

[Tim Bontemps]

Patrick Dumont was in the building. Today I did not see Mark Cuban, but Silver not surprisingly said we're still working through the Celtic sale. And by the way, this is much different than yeah, let me read this situation.

[Tim MacMahon]

The Grusbeck family and the buyer are still working through those arrangements on exactly how that would work in terms of CEO roles and governor roles during the transition. I think the situation was very different in Dallas. Did he elaborate on that?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, I can, I can read further.

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean, he, because essentially what Cuban is, is indicating happened was they didn't let him have a written agreement.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, let me, let me give the, Let me give the, let me give the quote. I think the situation was very different in Dallas. There was a clear change in control of the franchise to Patrick Dumont and his family. Any decision as to what Mark's role would be in basketball operations was a function of an arrangement to be made between Mark Cuban and Patrick. The ultimate governance was absolutely clear as presented to our board, that the last word on any basketball activities or any significant decision for the franchise would be made by Patrick. I think Mark has acknowledged that, as I've obviously seen some of his commentary on the trade, whatever anyone's feelings are on the trade, Mark, at least as I understand it, has made it clear that he did not participate in that. Whether or not his expectation was that he would have played more of a role in basketball operations. I don't think Mark has ever suggested there was a contractual issue at play here. That was just his understanding of what the arrangement would be between him and Patrick Dumont.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, and so I'm still like, essentially what Cuban is, is saying is there was a gentleman's agreement that they weren't allowed for some reason to have in the contract. I guess because of the governor issue. There was a gentleman's agreement that he keep running basketball operations, but that's not like a consensus there. So I don't know if Cuban is continuing his occasionally elusive relationship with the truth or if he was trying to speak something in existence or if he just really did flat out get double crossed. Well, look, whatever it is, I mean, it's one of those three.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I would say this was not definitive. The Wickerusbach was given the thumbs up. You're still running the team. That doesn't mean that he won't be.

[Tim Bontemps]

But here's definitive.

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't.

[Tim Bontemps]

Until the team is sold, he's running the team. Once the team is sold, we'll see what happens.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I have to spend a little moment here to talk about our colleague from the Boston Globe. Adam Himmelsbach covers the Celtics. The Celtics are on a 12 day road trip to the West Coast. When they left, they were, they were not sold. And when they, midway through the trip, they got sold. And Bill Chisholm, who is going to be the new controlling owner, not going to be the majority Owner because he's apparently, according to several financial outlets, going to own less than 20%. But 6 billion is a lot of money. I'm not looking down at him. He's a very successful businessman. He lives in the Bay Area. So the Celtics played in Sacramento. He has agreement to buy the team. And my guess is that this would not have been allowed by the Celtics if they didn't. If they didn't feel pretty strongly that he was going to be able to buy the team because he came and was able to meet the players and front office at the. Brad Stevens was there, Joe Missoula and our buddy, he gave an interview to our man Himmelsbach and maybe other media outlets. But I read it with our in the Boston Globe. So if I do not mean to throw shade.

[Tim Bontemps]

Pretty sure this was just an interview with Adam.

[Brian Windhorst]

Pretty sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Adam, I think is the only guy who was in Sacramento.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, give the man credit.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm going to say give him some on him.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon. Wait till you hear this. This is a potentially amazing quote. And by the way, I am not making fun of him. Of who not making the new Celtics owner of Wild Bill. I'm just saying.

[Tim Bontemps]

I know the quote. It's a dandy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. He talked about meeting Celtics players before the game. Quote. It's incredible. It's just such a privilege. My legs were shaking talking to Jason and Jalen.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh boy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do you think. Do you think there's going to be a salary dumping trade of Jalen Brown in the near future? He's. His legs were shaking. Hey, you know what though?

[Tim MacMahon]

That reminds me of a great story.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jalen ask for an extension.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, exactly. No doubt. That reminds me of a great Cuban story. Dirk told me this when I was working. Like a. The 20th year anniversary story of Cuban buying the franchise. You know, Cuban was a yahoo, like courtside season ticket holder. Obviously. He was.

[Brian Windhorst]

He actually sold his company to Yahoo, by the way, I'm pretty sure. Go ahead.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, right. But he was a loudmouth, you know, I mean he was Cuban. Just so. He was like a very recognizable fan. For one, because he's really loud for two, because the Mavericks didn't have a lot of fans back then anyways. And so Nash and Dirk are out on the town one night. You know, I didn't know that Nash.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Dirk went out on the town.

[Tim MacMahon]

Thank goodness Nico wasn't running things. They might not have lasted long there anyways. But so they're out on the town one night and you know, I might not be getting the details exactly right. But essentially the, the waitress or whatever came over and said, hey, you know, this guy, this guy's buying, you know, he wanted to buy you guys around. And they look over and it's this freaking loudmouth fan. And you know it's Cuban, it's this laugh mouth fan. And Dirk. And I'm like, okay, you know, gotta enjoy the drinks and skedaddled out of there because they don't want to deal with the guy. And then like a week later, Mavericks are sold and it's this guy and Dirk's just like, oh my gosh, you gotta be kidding.

[Brian Windhorst]

Cuban legs weren't shaking. He wanted to join the pre game shoot. Shoot around is what happened on that situation.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. And obviously Dirk and Cuban did end up having and continue to have a great relationship. But it was a pretty funny way to start it.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will say that I remember, you know, covering the league when Cuban bought in. And just to illustrate how different the NBA was then versus now, where there's like 45 support staff for the 14 players. And you know, every player has like his own security guard, masseuse and personal chef. Do you remember like how people freaked out because Cuban put Xboxes in every locker?

[Tim MacMahon]

Dude, how about.

[Tim Bontemps]

I remember that.

[Tim MacMahon]

Forget that. Extra thick towels. That was like a thing, you know. Oh my gosh. Hey, they were going to stay at five star hotels.

[Brian Windhorst]

Holy moly.

[Tim MacMahon]

They're staying at five star hotel like robes. Like the things that Cuban did early. Hey, say what you want about the Cuban era and I do say a lot about many things about it in the wonder boy Luka Doctrine, the curse. Great, it's available, beautiful. But he did absolutely change a lot of things about the NBA including like simple comforts in locker rooms and around teams, you know, that, that didn't exist before Cuban started trying to do these things and like the post game spread, stuff like that. A lot of these things part Cuban for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

I remember. So when Dan Gilbert bought the Cavs, I was covering the Cavs, obviously, and he was about five or six years after Cuban, but he was sort of from the same cloth. And he quickly upgraded the Cavs locker room and he installed TVs in each locker. And it's hilarious now because the TVs were probably like 10 inches by 6 inches. They were not very well, maybe they were big here. I don't want to offend anybody, but I remember that they were in the back of the locker. And the thing was that the coach had a switch in his office. He could switch it and this all the TVs would come up so that, you know, if it was time to get the attention of the players, he could hit a button and all the TVs would slide. You know, there would be, like, a panel to come up and cover all the TVs. They probably had those TVs in that locker room for, like, four years. I can count on one hand the number of times I actually was in there when I saw a player watching any of those TVs. Obviously, I wasn't in there all the time, but, like, I was in there before and after every game, and no one ever did it. I think it was the idea of putting a tv. It's kind of like some of these fancy hotels in, like, the 2000 would put a TV in the mirror of your bathroom. And, like, in theory, you could, like, watch in your bathroom. Was anybody actually watching TV anyway? Okay. No.

[Tim MacMahon]

But when the Mavericks had those, I'd say, hey. I would ask. I was like, hey, before you leave, you mind putting this game on? I would.

[Brian Windhorst]

I could see you doing that. So here's the thing. You got to understand. McMahon is, like, fascinated with arrays of TVs. He has a setup at his house where he's got three TVs, but he dreams of one day where there's, like, seven.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, I've only got two, but I definitely dream of seven.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

You.

[Brian Windhorst]

You want, like, you know, six games going on at once. That's your excitement.

[Tim MacMahon]

Absolutely. No, I think that's the way to go about life. Absolutely.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, anyway, so we'll see what happens with the Celtics. There's been some reporting this week about the terms of the sale and how there might be some. Some. Some boundaries being pushed. And that's why I think Bontemps asked Adam Silver if there was any discussions about bending any rules. I'm not going to make any. Any assumptions, but I did talk to a financial guy who said that as far as the NBA changing its rules to allow the Celtics to be purchased in a way that's not currently allowed. He said that these guys are wagering that the owners want the $6 billion price tag more than they're worried about individual rules. So we'll see if that becomes an issue or not. Again, whoever buys the team is faced with losing nine figures next year if the Celtics don't reduce this payroll. So you can't zero out your bank balance to buy the team because you're going to have to potentially fund the losses for the next few years. So that's just one thing. We'll Put in there. And let's not overreact to it now. Okay, Bon temps. What else is on the agenda today?

[Tim Bontemps]

There was discussion of the Minnesota Timberwolves sale.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ah, yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

And let you take over from there.

[Brian Windhorst]

So the Timberwolves, if you may recall.

[Tim Bontemps]

Back, they've only been being sold for 17 years at this point.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So the Timberwolves were actually sold in 2022. Actually, they might have agreed to be sold in 21. Okay. Were supposed to be sold by 2024. News flash, they weren't. They've been fighting. Mark Laurie, Alex Rodriguez and the current owner, Glenn Taylor have been fighting in arbitration for a year now. Six weeks ago, Lori was declared the winner of that. He said, okay, I've got a billion dollars in escrow. I'm ready to finish the transaction. And so here we are, six weeks later, there's a board of governors meeting where the owners could approve a sale or reject a sale. And today, Bontemps. Nothing. What?

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, not nothing. Not nothing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Certainly not announcement of.

[Tim Bontemps]

Not a. Not a agreement on a sale. However, the thing that we have talked about is Glenn Taylor after this arbitration ruling last month, which when I asked Adam Silver about that, the All Star Game, he said he didn't see why the new owners wouldn't get the team after that ruling. Glenn Taylor has the right to appeal that arbitration ruling. I don't think the window for that is closed yet. So Adam said that he's still debating whether to appeal. I think more importantly, he said he's discussing things openly still with Mark Laurie and Alex Rodriguez, which would lead me to believe that at some point here there will be some further agreement between the parties to resolve this and the new owners will get the team. But there was. I don't think there's anything, nothing that happened today leads me to believe it will be anything other than that. But it is not done yet.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let me say two things about why this is more important than who the billionaire is. Who gets to own the team. The Timberwolves have three free agents, significant free agents this summer. Julius Randle, who can opt out of his contract. Let's just for the sake of this discussion, assume that he does. Nas Reed, who almost guaranteed will opt out of his contract. It's for 15 million. He's going to be a candidate to win sixth man of the year again. And Alexander Nikhil Walker, who's been one of the most.

[Tim Bontemps]

Walker.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, we did a little rearrange.

[Brian Windhorst]

I always, always, always, always do not. And McMahon was saying earlier today on.

[Tim Bontemps]

NBA, confidently said it too.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know.

[Tim Bontemps]

Got it right here.

[Brian Windhorst]

Earlier today, McMahon, we were on the NBA today. We were, we were off, off air and McMahon was like, he was talking about Clayton Kershaw and he's like, I, I'm feeling my age here. Clayton Kershaw's got gray in his beard and I covered him, you know, when he was in high school and so, gee, what does that make me? This is one of these things where I see people like these senior moments and I'm like, how could you make that mistake? How could I make that mistake? Alexander. Nikhil Alexander Walker has been in the NBA like seven years. It's embarrassing.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Might be the best non center free agent available this summer.

[Tim MacMahon]

I was going to say and to the point of this conversation has corner for the sake of this conversation. Nikhil Alexander Walker has become a valuable role player. Bounced around but found a home in Minnesota. And he is, he's not just 3 and D, but he's 3 and D with a little bit of playmaking ability and you know, a very versatile defender. Right. He's going to get really good play. He's getting paid this summer.

[Brian Windhorst]

So the Timberwolves in the, in the last 21 years, I think I looked it up. In the last 21 years the Timberwolves have paid a total of $1.5 million in luxury tax total. One year they paid 500,000. One year they paid 1 million. This year their luxury tax bill is $93 million. Okay, now do we believe that they're paying $93 million again next year? They certainly are not.

[Tim MacMahon]

Probably if they're probably if they're an 8 seed, they think that's really worth it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, right now they're in the play and as you're to your point.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

So this is why this matters. It's not just because we're really want to argue about the arbitration ruling. It's that are they going to be able to resign these guys, Are they going to, you know, keep Nazri, Are they going to keep Julius Randall and you know, how much money can they spend and who's going to be spending. And the one other thing I'll point out, Tim Connolly is one of the most well respected executives in the, in the NBA. He has an opt out in his contract this year. If he, if he doesn't like the situation, he can opt out and walk away for free. And so when you have an opt out in your contract and you're valued, you opt out of your contract and get more money. So you know.

[Tim MacMahon]

And if you have an opt out.

[Brian Windhorst]

I do not.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't, I don't do options in my contracts.

[Tim MacMahon]

I go big baller.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're gonna, we go to a certain time. No more options. So we are now at basically the last two weeks of the regular season bond temps and we still don't know who on July 1st is going to get to decide how much money is going to get spent on these guys or not spent.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct? Yeah. I mean, it's going to be very interesting to see when this gets determined and who's going to be at the controls, but it's going to Minnesota. This may come up in our Friday column, Brian and I. Minnesota does not have any free agent salary or salary cap space this summer to spend, but they might be the single most interesting free agent team this summer between the combination of the King, Xander Walker, Nas Reed and Julius Randle, who also has a player option. All three of those guys, very interesting situations. And the Wolves are going to be a team that's going to have a lot to say about how the summer plays out across the league. Because of that.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, now that I. We talked about this, I'm now sort of thinking that really not that much was resolved today because, you know, basically they gave a promise ring to Feba about, you know, they didn't actually say they're going to do the year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, listen, I'm just. Again, they're. They're doing the league. They didn't have this entire press conference to then not do the league.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. I'm just saying it wasn't formally announced. It was.

[Tim Bontemps]

They didn't say what the league's going to be because they got it. They got a browbeat. The Euroleague team still. But they're doing the.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I'm just saying, like, you know, there was a soft announcement. We don't know what's happening with the Timberwolves. We don't know what's happening with expansion. Not only that, it's not now. We don't know what's happening with the Celtics.

[Tim MacMahon]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[D]

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[Brian Windhorst]

TaxAct knows filing taxes can be confusing. So we have live experts on hand who can help answer any questions you may have. Questions like can I claim my SUV is my home office? If I answer work emails in my car? If I adopted 12 dogs this year, can I list them as dependents? And am I doing this right or am I doing this very, very wrong? Our experts have the answers to those questions and many others. TaxAct. Let's get them over with. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Okay, one other thing that was asked, I don't know who asked. It was about the blatant tanking that is taking hold.

[Tim Bontemps]

Our Paltani Ganguly from the New York Times asked about it in the wake of my story with Kevin Pelton on Monday. About tanking.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. I didn't. Good job. I didn't. By the way, coming up, we're going to have Pelton on for large sample size theater, which is always.

[Tim MacMahon]

Is that the Seattle guy you've said was whining and crying about what?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, no. But he still has, you know, when you. When we have him on the pod, he's still got the Sonic stuff up there. Bontemps. I didn't see this game last night, but you were telling me about it earlier this the latest in the tanking wars Washington played in Philly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the Sixers, the top Sixers. The number of people that have said something to me about how great McBan's line is.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is a top line Sixers.

[Tim Bontemps]

I got to give you credit, McMahon. It's very well done. So the top Sixers are playing the. Playing the Wizards massive tank implications.

[Tim MacMahon]

Let's get all the names right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Especially because.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, no, no. Not on this night. This night.

[Tim MacMahon]

Fair point.

[Brian Windhorst]

Especially because the Raptors keep stubbornly Winning is.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, no. So this was their, this is, so this is the thing. Last night was maybe the biggest night of the season from this situation because in Brooklyn you had the Raptors playing the nets. Netsu, I believe, have now lost 15 of 18 or 17, 15 to 17 after getting blown out by the Raptors. In Brooklyn, the Raptors were two games back in the lottery standings from both Brooklyn and Philly. Brooklyn's playing the Raptors. Philly's playing Washington. Philly and Brooklyn last night. Going into that night, they could lose those games. They get a three game lead with 10 to go on Toronto. Toronto ain't catching those guys. They ain't getting three more losses.

[Brian Windhorst]

Toronto keeps, Toronto keeps winning again. And here's the thing, when we talk about this, because the Sixers are the top Sixers and it's top six or nothing, you can't look at the odds about getting into the top four. Four. You have to look at the odds about getting into the top six. And the difference for between Philly getting into the top six when they're the fifth worst record and the seventh worst record is like a 25% spread. So you don't even have to have a college degree to figure out if we're seventh, we're kind of in trouble and if we're fifth, we're in great shape on keeping the pick. So the Sixers are extremely incentivized to get the number five worst record.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. Because if they're, if they're seventh, right. For them to get into the top six, they have to jump into the top four. If they're fifth, what they have to have happen is for two teams behind them to both jump them and them not get into the top four. So it's a huge swing. Obviously, let's be honest, karmically for the top Sixers, the way this is probably going to go is for them to get to 5 and land in 7 and send a pick to the 5. Yeah, that feels like the only way.

[Tim MacMahon]

You got to get the old frozen envelopes to, you know, come back for this one.

[Tim Bontemps]

But last night, the top Sixers are down 16 with four minutes to go. I have the game out at the Garden.

[Brian Windhorst]

Good job, top.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm watching the game. I go, oh, hey, top Sixers, they got this in the bag. I, I look away, I look back, two minutes later, it's a three point game with 50 seconds to go. It's like, oh, here come the lizards. They're making a push. They're trying to get back in front because by the way, the other half of this, the Lizards went into last night's Game 1 win behind the Utah Jazz for the worst record in the league.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because, because they keep winning trying to.

[Tim Bontemps]

Get down there too.

[Tim MacMahon]

And, and that's about the floor like the furthest you can fall because the odds are the same for number one overall.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct.

[Tim MacMahon]

So it still matters.

[Tim Bontemps]

So eventually this resolve with the Top Sixers emerging with a desperately needed victory. Desperately needed victory. Getting the loss. The Nets lose. Raptors now eliminated from getting into the top six. Top Sixers going to be in the top six barring truly calamitous winning, which I don't think we're going to see happening.

[Tim MacMahon]

And then Jackson, you slacked off last time on the vocab words, by the way.

[Tim Bontemps]

And then we'll see what happens over the next, over the next couple of weeks to see whether the Top Sixers can get ahead of the Brooklyn Nets who again have lost 15 of 17 and are desperately trying to move up those lottery standing stew.

[Brian Windhorst]

So with all that having happened on Wednesday, on Thursday, Tanya Ganguly asks Adam Silver about tanking.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct. And in the wake of our, our.

[Tim MacMahon]

Story and nobody knows until Bond Timpson Pelton wrote about it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, it was, we wrote a good, I was happy with it.

[Tim MacMahon]

It was a good story. I enjoyed it and I like the potential solutions which they need to seriously consider.

[Tim Bontemps]

So Adam, so Adam echoed a lot of what Evan Wash said in our story. Evan Washes, the head of strategy and analytics and the guy who's behind the playing tournament and flat like all the, in all the creations that you've seen coming.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's the idea man.

[Tim MacMahon]

He's the chief nerd in the NBA office.

[Tim Bontemps]

So Adam, Adam and Evan both said that the flattening of the odds and the 65 game rule, the player petition policy and all these things have done a good job of limiting tanking. I think we can all hold on. I I'm not saying I endorse this view. That's what they have said meo but on the same, on the same, the same token, Adam then said he understands why relegation going back to the European discussion earlier is part of many leagues in the world. Quote it comes down to incentives. There's no doubt that incentives change at the end of a season, especially when you have a draft that's perceived not just with the top pick but maybe, but the top maybe few picks, an incredibly strong draft. That's a way, a legitimate way of rebuilding in this league. So I'm not sitting here and saying, all right, here's the new calibration of the draft lottery that will solve it. We don't have a new plan at the moment. He also reiterated what Evan Wash said in our story, which is that the competition committee is going to be looking at tanking and we will see what they end up coming up with as a quote unquote fix. But I'm not sure there is going to be a quote unquote fix.

[Tim MacMahon]

They need to take some kind of action like meet, discuss all the ideas. I'm not sitting here telling you you got to do this, but you got to do something. Action has to be taken.

[Tim Bontemps]

I am not sure there's anything that can be done.

[Tim MacMahon]

No. So there are like some of the ideas in your story can be done. You have to make it so where it's not in the best interest of a third of the league to absolutely put crap on the floor in March and April. I'm sorry, dude. They should like, they should be paying people to go to some of these games instead of making people buy tickets. There are. It's bad for the league, it's bad for fans. It's a bad product.

[Brian Windhorst]

The great businessman Charlie Munger, I have referred to it before. I will refer to the exact quote. Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. They have to change the incentive.

[Tim MacMahon]

Absolutely.

[Brian Windhorst]

Very simple.

[Tim MacMahon]

And I like, I like personally the idea of, okay, losses count toward the lottery odds up until we can say they all start break, you know, last 20 games or whatever. After that point, it's wins incentivize the, the teams that are going to be these Cooper flag.

[Brian Windhorst]

I actually don't even think you have to get that complicated. This is my without. I don't have an 11 pay. I don't have an 11 slide PowerPoint here. Oh, why don't you just make the lottery odds completely flat.

[Tim MacMahon]

I wouldn't be a. I wouldn't be opposed to that either.

[Brian Windhorst]

And, and if, and if, and, and, and the retort to that would be because people would tank to get out of the play in. But I would say if you don't, if you get in the play in and then you don't move to the move in, you could just. Your odds could potentially even be higher. You could, you could actually reward a team that makes the play in and doesn't make the playoffs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's the, here's the problem with that. All right. And here's the problem with all of these plans. Right? At the end of the day, the NBA has a draft for a reason. It is to give the worst teams the best chance to get impact players to change the direction of their franchises. Right. The difference between the NBA and European leagues, like, you know where Real Madrid plays, right? They just buy all the best players. They have the best players every year. They win the league every single year. The NBA is built on a league where, in theory at least, Utah has. Has the same way to win as the Lakers. Now, as we know, that is not exactly true on a variety of levels. However, the one way where the Utah Jazz can get a player like Luka Doncic in the draft or like Cooper Flag in the draft is if they win the lottery and that guy's on their team. If you create a system where finished.

[Tim MacMahon]

Fifth and trade up to third. But. Yes, go on, sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

But if you, if you, if you create a system where you're making it even harder for the bad teams to get a guy like that, you could have assist. You could have a situation where you have these teams that are just bad for 10, 15, 20 years now. You would say, well, some of those teams have already existed, but that's where I.

[Brian Windhorst]

The incentive and I'll show you the outcome.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure, I, I agree. I also just think that at some point, like there are going to be bad teams.

[Brian Windhorst]

If you want to say, yeah, of course. It's a zero sum situation. David Stern used to say, for every team that's rising, another team must be falling. I understand that and I, and I honestly think that basically what the league basically says, and I'm not sure, I'm not saying they say this actually physically in the room, but they're like, this is a problem for the last month to six weeks of our season will hold our nose.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's also this. I also do think this year in particular is an extraordinarily obtuse example of this happening. You have the Sixers, who are not.

[Tim MacMahon]

Expected to be the obtuse brother. No. Wendy and I wrote a tanking epidemic story the year that the Mavs are tanking and try to get Luca.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, that year. Yes, that year. When there's a year where there's a draft like that draft which had Luca and Trey Young and Jaren Jackson Jr. And all these guys in it.

[Tim MacMahon]

Deandre Ayton went first and Marvin Bagley.

[Tim Bontemps]

III went, okay, Marvin. Deandre Ayton was seen as a big time prospect. You shouldn't have gone first.

[Tim MacMahon]

Good players in every draft, except for last year. That.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's not true. There are different drafts that Are there are drafts, Teams are going to tank.

[Tim MacMahon]

For Zion, teams are going to tack tanks are going to tank for Wimby. Like, Jesus, are you kidding me?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. When there are elite players in the draft, which isn't every year. There isn't a prospect like WEMBY Every year, McMahon. There's not.

[Tim MacMahon]

I just mentioned like three of the last five or six drafts. Like it's a damn near every year.

[Tim Bontemps]

And then when there are elite prospects in the draft, teams are going to aggressively tank this year. On top of those teams, you've also had the Pelicans who thought they're going to be a playoff team, were destroyed by injuries. The Sixers who thought they were. They believed they were going to be a championship level team. They've been destroyed by injuries, among other things. The Raptors thought they could be a playoff team. A bunch of their guys got hurt at the beginning of the season. That is Only the Spurs were not the. I mean, you were betting on the spurs winning 40 games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my God. We haven't heard from that. Although they have one. I don't know what's going on with the Cavs game tonight that's happening right now, but they had won three in a row. Those spurs, they're. They're trying to give you life.

[Tim MacMahon]

31 and 40. It ain't over yet. And listen, the game's limits off if they, if they go over.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, sure. Victor Wenyama going out for the season completely derailed them too. The spurs would be in the play in if they had. If he hadn't gone out.

[Tim MacMahon]

Let's not. I'm just like tanking is an occasional thing. There's tank every single season. Some seasons are much more blatant than others. It's a massive problem for the NBA. The, the product in March is much worse than it should be. They've got to do something to get this thing figured out or at least minimized. And you did write a very good story. And one thing that honestly I hadn't put a ton of thought into that you guys pointed out probably was Pelton because it was a good point. Was the like, hey, the protections on picks, the top Sixers, it's about like if that pick is. Is not a top six protected pick. If you could only do. I think you guys said top four or lottery. That was me then. No, that was Pelton. If you could only do top four or lottery, it's a different deal. The Mavericks, when they had the, the tank that cost them 750 grand, you know, the year of The Kyrie deal, that was because they owed a top 10 protected pick. And so it was this embarrassing deal where this team that had a. I mean they had a tiny, tiny, minuscule chance of making the play in at that point because things had gone so haywire. But yeah, they still had a tiny, tiny, minuscule chance of making the play in and they pulled the plug and tanked and it was embarrassing for the league. That doesn't happen if it's not a top 10 protected pick.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, all of the most egregious examples of tanking over the last 15 years or so. Harrison Barnes, the. The Mav situation. The Sixers won this year. They all are related to protection of picks.

[Tim MacMahon]

I think not all. I would say, you know, the Utah Jazz say hold my near beer.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, sure, there's always going to be. Okay, that's a good line. There's always going to be horrible teams trying to be awful at the very bottom. I'm talking about like these teams that are trying to keep their draft picks. Those are always the most obvious. I mean most teams aren't getting fined 7 or $50,000 like the maps were.

[Tim MacMahon]

That was because Wendy likes the new beer.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean it was a great line.

[Brian Windhorst]

I liked Bontemps. So you get the gold medal for that. Bon Temps gets the silver for calamitous winning. There's been some. We've had some good stuff today.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think getting rid of the pick protection thing is the best way to go. I do like the idea of flipping the standings at some point in the season and rewarding winning. I also just overall think that the biggest thing that would change this would be if the schedule got shortened. But that is a different discussion for.

[Tim MacMahon]

I just think if it's a 66 game schedule, they'd be tanking from 46 to 60.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, there just would be less. There would be less of these games like this. This has been. It's been weeks look of this.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. You're never getting rid of it. Totally. Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's going to be some teams who do it even from the start of the season. Having said that, right now we got nine teams banking.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. This year particularly all of the ways has gone.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's like two or three take games.

[Tim MacMahon]

And again I think and we've talked about this, this gets back to the whole toes conversation that makes you guys uncomfortable. But I think this is the best basketball in terms of style of play, skill, excitement, entertainment that there has ever been. Except that's when teams are like their goals to win games if the goal is to win games, it's a hell of an entertaining league. I just wish that was the case every single game, the goal to win, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Show me the other, I'll show you the outcome.

[Tim Bontemps]

The other problem just in general right now is that across the Eastern Conference there's very little for anybody to play for from one all the way to 15. Right. So not only do you have these teams at the bottom that are bad, you have these, I mean, then you have these teams in the play and just aren't very good. But even from 1 to 6, there's barely any battles for anything. So it's just, there's just not. It's hard when two thirds of the league has no drama at all associated to it for the final six weeks of the season. So that's all I was saying before.

[Tim MacMahon]

It's one thing if there's like selective rest trying to get guys fresh for the playoffs and young players are playing and teams are still trying to win and like it's legitimate player development opportunities, that's one thing. It's another thing when teams are figuring out how to put out the crappiest lineups possible so they can lose or if teams are signing guys that aren't good in the G League to two way contracts to give minutes and stuff. Some of the tanking measures that you've. That we've seen.

[Tim Bontemps]

I, I do think the one thing from my story that I thought was especially relevant on this topic was Kevin. Kevin talked to Evan Wash for the story and he asked specifically about, he asked specifically about what some of these teams have been doing in terms of playing guys for some of the game, but not all the game. And like sort of this new innovation in tanking. Yeah, and this I thought was the. Probably the most interesting quote in the whole story quote. We are not in the business of policing rotations in that way. For the league to step in and say that a team chose to play one player over another player and that was a wrong decision, I think that's a bit of a slippery slope. And oh, by the way, some of those younger guys actually go on to win the game. So to me, the league was saying there, as long as the guy's playing, it's all good. So that is one innovation or change that I think is only going to continue well.

[Tim MacMahon]

And again, that's why ideally teams would actually go into games hoping to win.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. What, what, what a. There was a lot. I don't know if we learned a lot from the bog, but we had A lot of good topics.

[Tim Bontemps]

We learned a lot. Again, there wasn't an announcement of expansion, but expansion is closer now than it's been at any point in the last 20 years, and it's only going to get closer.

[Tim MacMahon]

I look forward to. I look forward to Seattle being an NBA city again. I never actually covered a game in Seattle, an NBA game.

[Tim Bontemps]

I just am excited for my guy pet, Kevin Pelton, to be able to go to games again at home.

[Brian Windhorst]

I've told the story about the last game I covered in Seattle. Should I tell it again? Jackson.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes. I don't recall.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jerome James. Famous Nick.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jerome James was playing for the Sonics. I was covering the Cavs back then. The media sat right on the baseline, right next to the bench.

[Tim MacMahon]

Mm.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you know, the thing about it was back with newspapers, the game started in Seattle at 7:30 Seattle time. That was 10:30 Akron time. And I had to have a story that was going to go in the paper that printed at midnight. So I had to have some sort of story. So I came up with something. We called it a crapper.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, because it, you know, it's usually crap.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's. That's what teams are putting on the floor these days.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. So usually, as you know, I am very attuned to the game and watching.

[Tim MacMahon]

Everything absolutely in real time, sitting on.

[Brian Windhorst]

The baseline, writing my, you know, my crapper the first quarter. And Jerome James, as all Knicks fans would tell you, had a bit of an issue with foul trouble. He tended to commit very. He don't. You know, he wasn't the most fleet of foot, and he tended to reach. And. And so early in the game in the first quarter, he was whistled for his second foul, which I believe had happened to multiple games in a row. And he was going to be headed to the bench for a period of time, having been in foul trouble. Again, he did not agree with the call.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh.

[Brian Windhorst]

So he took the ball and wanted to throw it off the advertising table that was on the baseline. But Jerome did not throw it off the table. He threw it a little bit high.

[Tim Bontemps]

Not the most accurate shooter. Jerome James. Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

Like. Like a free throw. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I think the key is, you know, there was a. There was a. There was speed, there was. There was fear.

[Tim MacMahon]

There's some force.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the ball went above the table. It went above the laptop and smashed me square in the face.

[Tim MacMahon]

Did your nose bleed?

[Brian Windhorst]

I was lucky. It didn't break my nose. It did not break my nose. But of course, it wasn't like Gushing blood. But, like, definitely there was blood. And more than anything, it shocked the.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hell out of me, I would think.

[Brian Windhorst]

And referee, who's now retired, I remember I always used to say, thank you for having my back. Kevin Fear call the technical foul on Jerome James for this action, I would think. Sitting about 12ft to my left was the Cavs bench. And sitting on the end of the Cavs bench, the late, great Robert Tractor trailer, who saw me get blasted in the face and could. Thought it was the funniest thing he saw all day and was laughing so hard that he fell out of the seat onto the baseline laughing at me getting blasted in the face. So even though, by the way, fair.

[Tim Bontemps]

Reaction to this entire situation.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I mean, it's a humorous situation, with all due respect to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, yeah. You know, as this was like 2007, LeBron was, you know, very entrenched, and so he would shoot all technical free throws, which, like Tom Haberstro later wrote a whole story about. Why is LeBron shoot technical free throws? He's like a 70.

[Tim MacMahon]

Because he was going to score 50,000 points. You don't do that by letting other guys get those fricking free throws.

[Brian Windhorst]

So LeBron goes up to the line and takes the technical, which is at the basket that I'm right underneath, and he misses it.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, no.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I looked at him and I was like, I.

[Tim MacMahon]

You looked at your dear friend LeBron?

[Tim Bontemps]

Dear friend.

[Brian Windhorst]

I, you know, like, I, you know, you may think I contribute nothing, but I. I took this shot in the face so that your team may have a point.

[Tim MacMahon]

This is like when Ispia took the charge on Joker to get the exact.

[Brian Windhorst]

Exactly the same thing, except four. I didn't have a choice but to fly. There was no flopping chance. I didn't see it coming. So that was my last experience in Key Arena.

[Tim MacMahon]

Did you fall?

[Brian Windhorst]

Didn't fall. That was actually the second. That was the second time I was injured sitting courtside at a game.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hold on, I've got questions regarding this one. Yeah, okay. You did not fall. That's impressive. Okay, I like that you said the rest. Name was Ken Fears.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ken Fear. F E H R. Kevin Fear.

[Tim MacMahon]

Kevin Fear. My bad. I apologize. How tall is this gentleman?

[Brian Windhorst]

He was taller than me. I don't know. He was not. He was not a short guy. Oh, do you have his. You have his height.

[Tim MacMahon]

So not a. Not a quick. Not. Not. Not a. Not a quick trigger fella.

[Brian Windhorst]

No.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay, Okay, I like that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Also, not to ruin the story.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was one of two times where I had interaction mid game with LeBron involving a free throw.

[Tim Bontemps]

Now, were you not in Seattle after 2005, by the way?

[Tim MacMahon]

Maybe it wasn't his last time. Don't say.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, maybe it was 2005.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hold on, hold on. I want. I, I do want to get. I. We've got a. One quick interruption and then I want to get to the other time that you were injured. But speaking of ISO. Or I'm sorry, speaking of Ishbia flopping on Joker, I recently did have a conversation with old motivation Matt, my. Whatever you want to call them, money Matt for sure. And me being the thorough reporter I am, I actually did ask him about the epic flop job that he, I mean, he should have been a fine. It was such a flop when he drew that technical foul on Joker, just to be blatantly honest with you. And he said, well, hold on, I'm actually scrolling here, looking for the exact quote I said. And I, I was blunt with my line of questioning. I did clarify. This was a total flop.

[Tim Bontemps]

You're so, you're so exact, so soft and.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes, and he said always. This is a, this is an actual quote. He said, izzo told me, you have my hands up. Make sure you fall back and get the call. This. That was Tom Izzo's coaching coming to life to get the Suns a point in the playoffs. So also, I did look up Ishba's college stats.

[Brian Windhorst]

He.

[Tim MacMahon]

I think he had 28 career points, which is honestly more than I anticipated it would be.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know if Mr. Ishbia meets your six foot requirements.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, there's no chance. Yeah, hell, he can own a team. He can't ref a game.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, all right, so.

[Tim MacMahon]

But more turnovers than assists. The man's always been a risk taker anyways. That's the other time that you were injured?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, LeBron, the other time was when he had made like 27 free throws in a row. And back then, maybe it wasn't 20, it was some high number. And back then we used to talk to him right before the game and we, we were in Minnesota and I said, hey, you've made, you know, 23 free throws in a row. You know, what's the story? And you know, he gave some answer. So first quarter, he goes in, he gets fouled. First free throw brick. And he looks over at me, this is between free throws one and two, and gives me the dirtiest look possibly. Imagine that was the day the friendship died, apparently. I think he, he ended up going like 6 out of 7 at the line that night, so it didn't impede his hot streak. The only other time that I suffered an injury courtside was in Bakersfield, California, during my first year covering the NBA. The Cavs played the Lakers in a preseason game. And I got to tell you, Bakersfield, I would say this might be one of the great sporting events that ever took place in Bakersfield because they have.

[Tim MacMahon]

Some kind of minor league team there. Like a. Oh, this was.

[Tim Bontemps]

That was the. That was the G League team that no longer.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, no, I'm talking about, like, they.

[Tim Bontemps]

Also have a minor league baseball team or did. I don't think they do anymore either.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, well, did the minor league baseball team ever have a game where Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton, Carl Malone, LeBron James played in it? Because that's what happened that night.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And there was the last preseason game, like, back when they played, like, seven or eight preseason games and both teams, like, trying to win and like, playing like a actual, like, near NBA game, like, where they. The starters would play 30 minutes and a ball got knocked towards out of bounds and Derek Fisher went to save it and tossed it to save it back in and came barreling over. The thing wiped me out. His shoe hit me in the eye. I wiped out on the floor, whole thing.

[Tim MacMahon]

How is your face so TV ready at all times after these.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know.

[Tim MacMahon]

Facial injuries.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I mean, back in the day when we sat courtside, we had to be, you know, you had to be into the game. You had to be paying attention.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, you don't have to pay attention anymore.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, we're like, in the second deck, you know? Heck, no. So that's the end of story time.

[Tim MacMahon]

Those are good stories.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Thank you for watching listening to Hoop Collective. Thank you to McMahon and Bontemps. Thank you to Jackson, our producer, if you haven't yet, Wonderboy. By the way, you. You need to have a book with you at all times.

[Tim MacMahon]

Like, I delivered a dozen of them to our great NBA Today behind the scenes staff today.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's very nice of you. And I'm sure that was a pain to ship that. To haul those books all the way out there. But then when you were. Then when you were getting it promoted on the air today, you didn't have it to hold up. Oh, I always have it to hold up.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Tim MacMahon]

I should have seen, like, the COVID art.

[Brian Windhorst]

When people are walking through the airport and they see it, they go, that's McMahon's book.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm just gonna, like, get a T shirt printed out that I wear all the times with it with a cover on there. How's that?

[Brian Windhorst]

I. Well, I don't like that. No, That's a little bit over the top, but.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, the wonder boy. Get it. Fine purveyors or even just average purveyors.

[Tim MacMahon]

Any old purveyor, I don't know if you can buy it. That'd be cool.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. All right. Thank you again. We'll talk to you next week.

[Tim MacMahon]

Adios, amigos. Which is Spanish for friends.

[D]

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