A Star Prospects Debut & Some Potential Bounce Backs?

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: "A Star Prospect’s Debut & Some Potential Bounce Backs?"

Date: October 20, 2025
Host: Brian Windhorst (ESPN)
Panelists: Tim Bontemps (“Bon Temps”), Tim MacMahon (“McMahon”)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the debut of highly touted NBA prospect AJ Dybansa (AJ Debanza), the outlooks for potential bounce-back teams and players in the NBA, dark-horse prospects for the upcoming draft, and updates on notable NBA injuries and extensions. The panel delivers in-depth perspectives from recent scouting, team situations, future organizational structures, and preseason takeaways, all with their signature banter and insight.

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Key Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. AJ Dybansa’s College Debut – Scouting a Star Prospect

[02:30–20:28]

• Windhorst attends AJ Dybansa’s first college game (BYU at Nebraska):

  • Key stats: 30 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals ("He was damn impressive," – Windhorst, 04:43).
  • AJ showcased athleticism, versatility (ball-handling, multi-positional play), and "a nose for getting to the line" (06:00).
  • Feedback from NBA scouts: Significant interest (14 NBA teams requested credentials for the game); Dybansa seen as a likely #1 or #2 pick for the upcoming draft, alongside Darren Peterson.

• Scouting report from Windhorst:

  • Strengths: Ball-handling, size, shooting, playmaking.
  • Weaknesses: Some growing pains, occasional lapses defensively, broke set plays to freelance (08:05).
  • “He wants the rebound. He wants to challenge shots, like he looked like he wanted to.” (09:00, Windhorst)

• Draft landscape:

  • Bontemps highlights this year’s draft as “loaded,” with 4–6 high-ceiling prospects including Cam, Nate Amen and Chris Cenac ("Even if you get the fourth, fifth, sixth pick... people think a really good player," 10:22).

• AJ’s marketing and shoe talk:

  • Ongoing speculation about a potential shoe deal switch; currently wears Nikes but scouted by New Balance given his Boston roots. (13:59; 19:10)
  • Quip from Ace (AJ's dad): “The scouts should worry more about their evaluation than what shoes he’s wearing.” (20:05, Windhorst quoting Ace)

• Memorable banter:

  • Bontemps (17:05): “I’m glad we got through 12 minutes of breakdown of an exhibition game to declare that AJ Dybansa is going to score in college basketball.”
  • McMahon: “When Wendy makes a prediction…” (16:56)

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2. 76ers Preseason / Joel Embiid Returns

[22:17–31:48]

• Bontemps’ report from Philadelphia:

  • Highlights Joel Embiid’s strong return, younger and more athletic roster, Nick Nurse pushing the tempo.
  • Embiid "looked pretty good, moved around pretty well," no obvious knee brace, passing better, benefiting from an uptempo squad (25:00).
  • “There is no pressure on them. There really are no expectations…If Joel Embiid can play 50–55 games and look like he did health-wise Friday, he’s going to have a good season.” (27:24, Bontemps)

• Tyrese Maxey, Quentin Grimes, VJ Edgecombe:

  • All receive mentions as breakout or impact players.
  • Nick Nurse likely to start Edgecombe, high energy around his arrival.

• Paul George’s (PG) status:

  • Uncertainty around his role given age and injury, must play PF when healthy. But: “At this point, I think you have to be more concerned about what Paul George can give them than Joel Embiid.” (29:45, Bontemps)

• Expectations, culture, and recap of last year:

  • Last season’s arrogance in presumed chemistry ("We're going to microwave chemistry... finals run," 32:13, McMahon)
  • The Bob Myers angle: New overarching role at Harris Blitzer Sports (Sixers), not expected to supplant Daryl Morey.

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3. Memphis Grizzlies’ Injury Woes & Season Outlook

[41:05–47:45]

• Brutal injury list: Scottie Pippen Jr. (foot surgery, out until mid-January), Ja Morant (sprained ankle, opener status uncertain), Ty Jerome (calf), Brandon Clarke, Zach Edey all out or questionable.

• Season expectations:

  • Real danger Memphis stumbles into the lottery (“You see a couple teams come into the year and they just never get right from a health standpoint, and their season does not go the way they expected it to.” – Bontemps, 42:40)
  • Bain trade (and extensions) seen as "an admission that this version of the Grizzlies wasn't good enough." (44:51, McMahon)
  • Ja Morant’s future: No extension talks this summer, Grizzlies’ brass "waiting to see" if Ja can step up as a true franchise centerpiece.

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4. Rookie Extensions & Sacramento Kings

[47:56–54:04]

• Keegan Murray’s extension: Five years, $140M, sparking market-shaping reactions among agents and teams.

  • Bontemps: “I thought the Keegan Murray deal was pretty good. There are not a lot of 6'8" guys who are legitimate two-way players..." (51:04)
  • McMahon: Points out his stats aren't elite (“For a guy who's known as a shooter, his three-point percentage has dropped each year.”, 52:18)
  • General market in the $20–28M/year range for similar rookie deals.

• Team health issues: Sabonis injury, Keegan out, experimentation with rotations.

  • Funny: "You can maybe make an argument Russ [Westbrook] should start right now for the Kings over your future hall of famer Dennis Schroder.” (53:53, Bontemps)

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5. All-Star Quota Complications & NBA Structural Changes

[56:10–59:31]

• Panel discusses new All-Star selection rules and international/US player quotas.
  • “This is the thing, right, with these new rules for the All-Star Game, it’s going to kill a guy like Austin Reaves.” (56:16, Bontemps)
  • Ongoing inside-baseball jokes about international status and potential All-Star debates (“I’m already dreading the discussions about the All-Star rosters in January…” – Bontemps, 57:58)

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6. Thunder: Defending Champs, Culture & Sam Presti’s Philosophy

[61:41–71:43]

• Thunder tabbed as favorites, start title defense:

  • Discussion of OKC’s "boring" but successful culture, rooted in Presti’s catchphrases:
    • "Chasing improvement”, “Builders, not guardians.” (63:38, McMahon)
    • “There's no silver platters in Oklahoma.” (65:25, Windhorst)
    • “Basketball is poker…in the NBA, everybody has to play the hand they’re dealt differently.” (66:24, paraphrasing Presti)

• Team chemistry and expectations:

  • Shea Gilgeous-Alexander as the new cultural setter, compared favorably to past franchise stars.
  • Thunder expected to "win over 65 games again…as good or better than they were last year." (68:22, Bontemps)

• **Panel pokes gentle fun at OKC’s stoic, process-driven environment but lauds its effectiveness.

  • "They buy into the stuff that allows them to be the youngest championship team in 50 years." (65:01, McMahon)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"He was damn impressive. His stats speak for themselves…"
— Brian Windhorst on AJ Dybansa's debut (04:43)

“There’s a lot of talent. It’s going to be an interesting year to watch. There are going to be NBA teams hoping to lose as many games as possible to have the right to have one of them [AJ or Darren] on their team next year.”
— Tim Bontemps (10:22)

“At this point, I think you have to be more concerned about what Paul George can give them than Joel Embiid.”
— Tim Bontemps (29:45)

“They weren’t nearly good enough. The Bane trade was an admission of, hey, we thought we had something that was going to be cooking for a while and it wasn’t good enough.”
— Tim MacMahon, on Memphis (45:16)

"Chasing improvement... that's what he wants them doing this year, not defending a championship. Chasing improvement, which is… boring as hell, but…"
— Tim MacMahon, summarizing Sam Presti’s preseason message (63:38)

“Builders, not guardians. We’re not guarding last year’s championship.”
— Tim MacMahon (64:26)

"Thunder dominated the league last year… They should come into this season as the prohibitive massive favorites."
— Tim Bontemps (68:22)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:30] – Windhorst breaks down AJ Dybansa’s debut
• [10:22] – Bontemps on depth of upcoming NBA draft
• [22:17] – Bontemps details 76ers preseason, Embiid’s return
• [31:33] – 76ers’ organizational structure, Bob Myers’ new role
• [41:05] – Grizzlies' catastrophic injury list and what it means
• [47:56] – Murray’s extension; how rookie contract market is shaped
• [56:10] – All-Star quotas and international status debate
• [61:41] – Thunder’s championship ring night, Sam Presti philosophies
• [63:38] – Presti’s “chasing improvement…builders, not guardians”
• [68:22] – Thunder expected dominance (Bontemps)

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Tone & Style

• Language: Informal, conversational, packed with inside jokes and newsroom banter; analytic but accessible.
• Delivery: Deep NBA knowledge, scouting expertise, and friendly ribbing among longtime colleagues.
• Vibe: Lively, opinionated, and well-contextualized, targeting NBA die-hards and casual fans seeking the ‘story behind the story.’

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Takeaways & Summary

• AJ Dybansa's college debut has NBA scouts drooling, reinforcing his status as an elite draft prospect in a deep class.
• 76ers’ preseason brings hope: Joel Embiid looks physically ready, and the team’s shift in style plus new exec dynamics reshuffle expectations.
• The Memphis Grizzlies are already deep in the injury woods, setting the table for a possible gap year and major reshuffle.
• Market for rookie extensions is solidified around Keegan Murray's deal, shaping agent/front office negotiations league-wide.
• The Thunder enter the season as defending champs with an exceptional culture and a rare blend of humility and confidence, thanks to Sam Presti’s leadership and Shea Gilgeous-Alexander's rise.
• Lighter banter on All-Star quotas, the impact of injuries, and the ever-evolving structure of NBA franchises underpins a pod that balances insight and fun.

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For NBA fans wanting a pulse on prospects, preseason revelations, team dynamics, and front office intrigue—especially via the personalities of Windhorst, Bontemps, and MacMahon—this episode is an essential, entertaining listen.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets.

[Bon Temps]

Mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Saturday evening. We just had to delay our podcast time because Texas and Kentucky went to ot, but our resident Longhorn, at least a parent of a Longhorn, a benefactor of a Longhorn, was living and dying with it. Anyway, joining us from New York City, where he will be attending the Knicks vs Cavs on Wednesday night, I believe. And the big opener on ESPN with our new teammates from inside the NBA. Before that is Bend. Oh, is. But Tim Botteps.

[Bon Temps]

That was. That was quite the intro.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. I'm just messing that up.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah. Are those guys going to be live at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday?

[Brian Windhorst]

I do not have that information. I should have looked it up, but I do not know. But. Oh yeah, that should. That will be there.

[Bon Temps]

We'll see if they're there. Yeah, and our guy, Vinny Goodwill will be there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Our man, Vince Goodwill. By the way, he announced that he wanted. He goes by Vince. Have you ever called him Vince or heard anybody call him Vince?

[McMahon]

I call him a lot of things. Vince.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And when I text him, I. I put Vince in quotes because I thought that was a ridiculous. Joining us from a very pleasant, very satisfied and happy Dallas living room. Actually, it's his office. This band. McMahon.

[McMahon]

Howdy, partners. Old horns made me sweat out a hideously ugly one, but tell you what. Mean Green bowl bound, baby. Six and one blew out the UTSA Roadrunners today. Oh, Mike Wright text me from his San Antonio home talking a little trash this morning. I invited him to make a friendly wager on that game and his wife would not allow him to. His wife is a lot smarter than Mike, which ain't saying much, but she is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, guess what I did on Saturday afternoon, gents?

[McMahon]

Oh, I know, I know, but tell us.

[Brian Windhorst]

I went to a college basketball game, which I. I'd usually do about once or twice a year.

[Bon Temps]

Big band. We're about to have a new discovery. Oh, add it to the list. We got Victor Wembanyama. We got Chad Holmgren. We got. We got a lot of Luminous discoveries by Brian Windhurst over the years. Brian, who's the latest discovery?

[McMahon]

He's been on the list. This is just, it's true.

[Bon Temps]

This actually is a prior discovery from Paris last year. That's correct.

[Brian Windhorst]

Excuse me. Today was Anise D Bansa, Juniors. Oh, first college game. I didn't see their view there.

[Bon Temps]

There we go.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, I mean, we're being fancy.

[Bon Temps]

Pulling out full names for the discovery. We gotta, we gotta hype up the, hype up the, the find.

[Brian Windhorst]

His dad, who was profiled in the Washington Post on Saturday, by the way. His dad asked me to. His dad's nickname is Ace. I've always known him as Ace, but his dad's name is Anise Debenza senior. There's a T on the end, but it's not, it's silent. And so he requested that I let people know that his name is Anise. I think he'll still go by AJ And I think his dad will still go by Ace. But yeah, AJ Debanza. I watched him. The BYU Cougars played an exhibition game at Nebraska at noon on a Saturday. They had a decent crowd, all things considered, for that exhibition game. And they actually won the game by a point, which was an upset because BYU is ranked 8th. I'm not sure which poll has a mate. Maybe it's the eight people, I don't know. Eight people, preseason eighth, but it doesn't count. But yeah, I watched A.J. gibson play his first college game. There were. I didn't see this many teams there, but the folks at, the fine folks at Nebraska told me that there were 14 NBA teams that requested credentials.

[McMahon]

I was going to ask you. That did. Now also to be clear, did you go as a ticket buying or ticket getting fan or did you go with a media credential?

[Brian Windhorst]

Excuse me, sir, I was working.

[McMahon]

Okay. I'm just asking.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was working, I was working. Media member.

[McMahon]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I wanted to go see. I, I got to meet AJ and his dad last year in Paris and I've kept in touch with them and so yeah, I wanted to go see his first game and he was especially considering his first game. 18 year old first game. He was damn impressive. Damn impressive. His stats sort of speak for themselves. He had 30 points. Not sure how many rebounds and assists he. He finished with. I'll check that. But he had. In the first half, he had 19 points in 15 minutes.

[McMahon]

30 points, seven rebounds, three assists, three steals. 10 of 19 from the floor. And you know, I, I just watched the little highlights on Twitter, but big, athletic, with, with touch and ball handling. Skills ain't a bad combination.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, and Nebraska is not an awesome team, but they're a quality team. They won that, that postseason event they call the crown that Fox Sports created last year. They did win that. I was looking around to see if they had the gall to hang a banner Lakers style, but I did not see a banner. Maybe, maybe that'll be rolled out on open like we're going to see from the Thunder here in a few days. So what I will say about him not being someone who leads the league in, in player evaluation, that's not what I do. Although I did talk to some scouts there. So one of the things I'll say about him is that he plays multi positions. I guess technically he started at 4, but he would bring the ball up regularly. Especially if they had a dead ball situation, he would bring the ball up. He, he, whenever he got a rebound he definitely brought it up. They don't run tons of stuff for him, but when they do run stuff, he plays with his back to the basket. He'll catch the ball in the mid post. And I also watched him, his pregame, he, through his, his pregame warm ups, he went through, you know, post catches and turnarounds and he took a couple of turnarounds in this game. He didn't, he wasn't successful at him. He was much better shooting the three ball. But he had a couple of spot up threes yet you know, he took some pull up threes which were not his best shots in the game. But one thing that I noticed right away is he has a nose for getting to the line. So he played something in the mid-30s in the minutes of this game he played, you know, regular season minutes and he, he got eight free throws, got the line, got four shooting fouls. He definitely looks to get to the line and he will get to the line. They, there, there, there were some times where they ran some stuff for him but, but basically, and you know, you know, in talking to the BYU folks, you know, maybe later on in this season he'll be like sort of the centerpiece of everything. But early on they just want him to sort of be in the flow. My point is the whole situation, while it is basically set up around him, I mean BYU is where they're at because of him. They don't operate the team that way, at least not in their first exhibition game. And I will say, you know, there were growing pains. There was a, there was one point where he got into like a bit of a, a minor shoving match with one of The Nebraska players and he, he lost his man going down the other end of the court and he gave up a three. Another time they, they were in the middle of giving up a run and he kind of broke off a play and stuck his, put his head down and tried to try to just score and he ate, ate the shot. You know, they blocked his shot and there was, you know, another time where he had a good hard nose player. Sam Hoiberg. Fred Hoiberg's son.

[McMahon]

Oh, yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I, I, I don't know what they're listed as, but I, I, I think there's a good chance that Sam Hoiberg is, is a full foot shorter than AJ Debanza and he didn't take advantage like he had him and he just sort of gave it up.

[McMahon]

Old Sam ain't tall enough to ref an NBA game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Definitely not. I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to say that I am by your standards, but no, definitely not Sam. But they, they love him. They love Sam. So, but this guy is, you know, a, I mean, he's smooth, he's got great size, big wingspan. You know, again, I'm watching him for one game here. I don't have volumes of notes like how he played last year in, I think he played in Hurricane. So it's near St. George, the, the prep school he was at in, in Utah. So maybe I'm saying stuff that, you know, all these other scouts know all about, but he, he wanted to rebound the ball and he wanted to challenge shots like he looked like he wanted to. So the scouts, a couple of the scouts who were at this game that I know have been in the Midwest for a couple of days. They, they, Creighton had a exhibition game on Friday night and before that a couple of them went to see Kansas practice and they were talking about Daryl Peterson, who was the other Darren Peterson. Darren Peterson, who was the other strong candidate to be number one pick. And you know, that was just a practice, but they were like, these two guys are big time studs.

[Bon Temps]

There might be a couple, there's a couple guys besides them, too. There's Cam, there's Nate. Amen at Tennessee. Chris Cenac, Houston is a really big time prospect. Mikhail Brown at Louisville. This is a loaded draft. And not just the top couple guys. Like even if you get the fourth, the fifth, the sixth pick this year, you're going to get, at least as of today, people think a really good player. So, you know, there's a lot of talent. It's going to be an Interesting year to watch. And yeah, like, certainly as of now, the one and two guys are AJ And Darren. And it's going to be a very fun year to see how those guys develop and how some of these other guys develop. And there's going to be another handful of NBA teams hoping to lose as many games as possible to have the right to have one of them on their team next year.

[Brian Windhorst]

The interesting thing, and again, I am, you know, I am not a shoe guy. You know, that's our old, old compadre Nick DePaul is territory. But the scouts were telling me that the word on the street is, you know, he's wearing Nike right now. But I, I don't know status of the contract, but the, the scouts were telling me that there's a chance that there's going to be a shoe flop, shoe swap. And. Well, I, I asked, I asked Ace. Ace is his dad. He, this goes, this, he goes into this in the, in the Washington Post article. But, you know, he, he does have a marketing agent that he's working with who's helped him with some of his marketing deals. Like, I know he's got a deal with Red Bull, for example, but he doesn't have an agent. And the plan is not to have an agent.

[McMahon]

And just this year or going to the NBA.

[Brian Windhorst]

I have to tell you right now, I don't think the point. I mean, I think they would say that they do have an agent, which is this guy Leonard Amato, who was one of Shaquille o' Neal's agents. He's been around a long time. A very experienced agent. He's, I think, advising them. But, you know, and I, and people feel a certain way about that. I've gotten to know his dad, a niece senior Ace. And you know, he's a former policeman. He was a policeman in Brockton, Massachusetts for 19 years. He's got a different, a different background than you would normally see with basketball dads. I also met and spent some time with his mother today. I did. This is what I did. You know, NBA scouts are not allowed to talk to the family. That's against the rules until they declare. So that's what I did today. No, all those scouts were there. They're not allowed to, to talk to the family where I am. And so I met his sister Jasmine, and I met his mother. His mother is born and partially raised in Jamaica, which, you know, there's so many NBA players who have Jamaican heritage. And so his dad, his dad is of Congolese descent, which is what Victor wembanyama's father, Felix is. I'm getting to the age where I know the dads. It's not. Well, it's not a great age.

[McMahon]

Older than the dads in a lot of cases.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Before this, this, this podcast started, we were, we were talking to Jackson, our esteemed producer, and we were talking to him about Eric Metcalf, the former Texas Longhorn and Cleveland Brown, and Jackson had no idea who he was. And it was, it was hurtful to us. But. Yeah. So I now know these, these guys. Dads. That's, that's my role.

[McMahon]

But AJ has played for Team USA though, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

He did. He did play for Team USA at U19. He was the MVP of the U19 World cup, which just happened over.

[McMahon]

The Thompson twins are apparently going to be playing for Jamaica moving forward.

[Brian Windhorst]

That is what Ace said today. I have not spoken anything about that. I'm just saying, boys, well, Grant Hill and Eric Spoelstra. When I heard that, I was like, get thee to Houston and Detroit and try to nip that in the bud because the Americans could use Ahmed and Sr. Thompson. I'm not sure in 28, but maybe by 28 and certainly by 32.

[McMahon]

I think I'm in by 28 for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, you got to nip that in the. But not that I, you know, look, I, you know, Bon Temps and I talked about this last year, you know, how great it was to see the Bahamanian team with Vijay Edgecomb and deandre Ayton and Klay Thompson try to try to qualify for the Olympics, not Clay. But Clay didn't play.

[McMahon]

No. Buddy Healed and Eric Gordon, who had Team USA experience and they went through the process with fever to be able to play for Bahamas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that was when Clay was obviously a free agent and you know, he would have been a more complicated process for him with. Because he played for Team USA in the Olympics and etc.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they almost qualified for the Olympics and didn't. But yeah, he did say that. Yes, AJ has played. I don't know. I mean, to be honest with you, if AJ wanted to play for the Bahamas, he probably would be allowed to because. I'm sorry, Jamaica, he probably would be allowed to, but Grant Hill should get on that too. Make sure that that gets, that gets nipped in the bud.

[McMahon]

Yeah.

[Bon Temps]

Usually if you haven't played for the senior national team, but you've played for lower levels, they'll give you a one time switch.

[Brian Windhorst]

Especially if you're not going to play for like America or If you're not going.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, exactly. And my friend and former colleague Jesse Doherty wrote that story on the Bance's dad, you should go check it out. Washington Post.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ace was, Ace was pretty, pretty happy about it. So yeah, so I take off my college basketball evaluation hat now but I, I was happy to be able to drive over to Lincoln today to go see see AJ play and I predict he's going to have some big time scoring games here because one thing I.

[McMahon]

Can just tell you when Wendy makes a prediction.

[Bon Temps]

I'm glad we got through 12 minutes of breakdown of an exit game to declare that A.J. deBance is going to score in college basketball.

[McMahon]

Hey, this guy is making like 6 million in nil money.

[Bon Temps]

Well you know again the discovery McMahon we have discovered AJ demand a college.

[Brian Windhorst]

Basketball game if you score 20. It's considered a big.

[Bon Temps]

Listen buddy, you're the one who just declared the guy who's going to be the first as I could pick at the draft is going to score a lot of points in college games.

[Brian Windhorst]

You deserve to get to tell you that I don't think BYU's bench is going to blow teams out of the water. So I think AJ is going to get a lot of minutes, score a lot of points. Points is what I'm telling you.

[McMahon]

They spend all that nil on the starters, that's for sure. Ryan Smith's got to go raise some more money.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, there was a, there was a guy for Nebraska, I should at least mention it. This guy named Rink Mast who's a Dutchman, hell of a name. And he, he made his first. He missed all of last season with a knee injury and he made seventh. He's 6:10.

[McMahon]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he made seven. His first seven threes in this game.

[McMahon]

Has Nebraska produced an NBA player since Eric Strickland?

[Brian Windhorst]

How about Ty Lu?

[McMahon]

Oh, okay, he says Strickland, Piakowski, they've had a few.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's been one more recently but I forget.

[McMahon]

Oh wow, they had a big guy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyways, anyway I was talking to some of the scouts and you know they were like man, I mean he's 24 year old but he's 6 10, he shoots threes. I was like this guy's gonna make a lot of money. I don't know about the NBA but he's gonna make a lot of money somewhere. So I should mention that I did. And by the way, he scored 31 points. So the Bansa did not lead the game in scoring.

[Bon Temps]

Also likely to have some big scoring games this year. Shooting three Ball, apparently, for. For Nebraska.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I did not say that.

[McMahon]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, like, let's go look at college basketball's leading scores. What was, what was college basketball leading scores?

[McMahon]

Well, no, because there'll be some guy from like.

[Bon Temps]

Let's not do that.

[McMahon]

There'll be some guy from like, Oakland University in Detroit.

[Bon Temps]

Let's get back to talking about the NBA. We've had a good diversion with AJ Debate dance. We don't need to go.

[McMahon]

By the way, the bands of shoe things. Interesting though, the leading score in the.

[Brian Windhorst]

In the NCAA last year, average 22 points, 23 points a game. So you think that. I'm saying this guy scored 30 in his first ever college game. He might, like, potentially do some special scoring things. What I'm saying.

[McMahon]

We will. We will.

[Bon Temps]

We are aware. We are aware. We're glad you've discovered it.

[McMahon]

So BYU is a Nike school, I take it?

[Brian Windhorst]

It is.

[McMahon]

Okay. But Cooper Flag has had his New Balance deal. He had his New Balance deal before he went to Duke, but because he went to a Nike school, he did have to wear Nike at Duke.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[McMahon]

Despite the fact that he was already a New Balance, you know, endorsement guy.

[Bon Temps]

And AJ DeBancer, like Cooper Flagg, is a guy from the Northeast, where. And from Boston, where New Balance is located. I have no idea if he's going to New Balance or not, but it is interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

Good reporting there, Bon Temps. That might. In fact, it was a discovery. What the speculation? Yes. I don't. I don't besmirch somebody who's maybe does good observations.

[Bon Temps]

I. I literally had no idea that was what the reporting was.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, it wasn't reporting. That's just what the scouts.

[Bon Temps]

No, well, I'm saying I didn't. I didn't. Three minutes ago, I didn't know AJ DeBancer was debating changing shoes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I said to his dad, I said, the scouts think he's going to Nike. And he said, the scouts should more worry more about their evaluation than what shoes he's wearing. So that was the official comment. He was wearing Nikes today because.

[Bon Temps]

Tell him to come to Windhorse for the official. For the official discovery.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, no, prospect. I'm just saying. I went to his first college game to score 30 points. What do you want me to say? It wasn't like they were playing a Division 3 team.

[McMahon]

If you ask Wendy for shoe advice, he'll be wearing none. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast, Smart move being financially savvy Smart move. Another smart move, having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer.

[Bon Temps]

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[McMahon]

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[Bon Temps]

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[McMahon]

Chevrolet Together, let's drive.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, Bon Temps On Friday, you went to see the Philly 76ers play.

[Bon Temps]

And for the I discovered Joel Embiid on the court.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's a real discovery, like the Loch Ness Monster.

[Bon Temps]

Joel Embiid, BJ Edgecomb, Quentin Grimes, Tyrese Maxey was a fun Joanne Baron J rookie center for the Wolves, who was pretty impressive.

[McMahon]

He's got something. I don't know how much he's going to impact this season, but I think that guy's going to be a player.

[Bon Temps]

I think he's going to be their backup center right away. Like, I'm not saying he's going to play 30 minutes a game or anything, but he, he plays super hard. He's really bouncy. He like he's going to be able to carve out a role playing a few minutes off the bench catching lobs. I think for them.

[McMahon]

I was talking to a scout who was not a Timberwolf scout from another team in the west side of it who's raving about Baron J's potential. And one thing he pointed out was that he blocked shots with both hands, which is not, as you know, common as you Might think and said it's because, you know, this guy's played more goalie than he has basketball. He was a handball primarily.

[Bon Temps]

Oh, soccer goalie.

[McMahon]

Yeah, soccer goalie primarily.

[Brian Windhorst]

Are there. Is there a goalie in handball?

[Bon Temps]

I thought, I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

I went. I didn't know. Soccer ball handball is big in France.

[McMahon]

But, you know, he's one of these, like, very athletic, springy seven footers who didn't play basketball until well into his teens.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, he's. He's super interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joel Embiid didn't play basketball when Noelle and was teens either.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

But, yeah, 10 years later won the MVP.

[Bon Temps]

It was a fun game in Philly. Yeah, Jalen. I mean, all the. All the Wolves guys had played the night before in Chicago, all the starters. So none of them played but Jalen Clark, who's got a chance to fill in for someone to kill. Alexander Walker's minutes had some moments on the wing. Baron J. Looked good. And yeah, obviously the main story was really good game for Vijay Edgecombe. Nick Nurse basically said he's going to be starting as Tyrese Maxey is at a very good camp. You've talked before, Brian, about how people in Philly are very excited about BJ Edgecomb. I can also say people are in Philly are very excited about VJ Edgecomb.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he's got his first NBA game as well. Does that mean anything to you?

[McMahon]

Which one?

[Bon Temps]

Which one?

[McMahon]

Because I saw summer league game, baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't say competing discoveries.

[Bon Temps]

Quentin Grimes looked good shooting the ball. But yeah, obviously the big story was Joel Embiid playing his first real game since February when he ended the season, I think February 22nd after playing the Nets. And he looked pretty good, moved around pretty well. Wouldn't say it was a perfect performance. He was doing a lot of throwing the ball halfway down the court and watching his teammates catch up to it because he's got a whole bunch of guys now who can run really fast. And so he did a lot of chilling and letting him run down to get layups and dunks, which I appreciated as a guy who's now old playing pickup.

[McMahon]

You see me play pickup. My favorite. My favorite way to contribute. Grab a defense, rebound, make an outlet pass, observe, see if I need to leave the.

[Bon Temps]

It was a lot of big, bad.

[McMahon]

Like, play, and then we score and I'm like, I contributed to that bucket. Never had to leave the paint in the back court. That's glorious basketball.

[Bon Temps]

But look.

[McMahon]

And B can do that. That'll save. That'll save Some wear and tear on.

[Bon Temps]

Them, that's for sure. Look, the question for me coming into this game, and we had a pretty good sense all week he was going to play, was was he going to look something like he did either the second half of the 2324 season or before, when he looked like a guy who was still an elite player, or was it going to look like the guy who, outside of that fourth quarter against Serbia, really struggled for Team USA and really never looked good at all at any point last year for the Sixers? And I wouldn't say he was back to like a point a minute guy, but he definitely looked at least like the guy who played against the Knicks in the first round of the playoffs with Bell's palsy and still had like 30, 12 and 6 in games and looked pretty good moving around. Didn't look like he had a brace on his knee. If he did, it was some really small one. It was not the big bulky one he had last year and move pretty well. Shot looks good. And I think the most interesting thing, even though Paul George didn't play, so it's a little hard to read this was it's very clear Nick Nurse has the rest of this team conditioned to fly up and down the court at all times. And they've got a lot of young athletes and they're also small, so they have to play fast. But it really felt like the first time in a couple years for this Philly team that they have a consistent thing they can go to, especially when a beat is out and they'll have some sort of identity that they can lean on, whereas last year it was just a chaotic mess the whole way through. But with Maxi, with Grimes, with Edgecomb, they get Jared McCain back. They've got Kelly Oubre, who's obviously an excellent transition player. Adam Bona is a young big who can get up and down the court. Like they just, they can play really fast and create turnovers and get out and run, which I think is what they're going to try to do a lot of to, you know, counterbalance getting the ball to Embiid and when Paul George is back, Paul George in the half court. But, you know, it's like we talked about the other day. The Sixers are not, to me, a team you should look at is they've got a ceiling of catching up to the Cavs or the Knicks. But there is no pressure on them. There really are no expectations on them. If Joel embiid can play 50 games, 55 games and look like he did health wise Friday he's going to have a good season and the Sixers are going to be, you know, a top six team in the east. And it's not going to look anything like it did last year, which is obviously a massive, massive improvement.

[McMahon]

Are we at the point where we are considering Paul George contributions in the second year of a max deal to be almost a bonus?

[Bon Temps]

I don't know if I'd say a bonus, but I am curious to see what he looks like when he gets back. I don't think he's too far away. He, I think did some five on five practice on Thursday. He's definitely ramped up this week. I don't think he's like, I think. What did Chom say? LeBron's target was mid November. Yeah, like a month in. I don't think. I think Paul George should be back before then, at least assuming things go okay. But look, part of Philly's problem is he's got to be their starting power forward when he's right. And Paul George is not that big. And you know, I, I think that's, that's going to be something interesting to see. Like, is he the four because he has to be their biggest player or is he the four because he can't really move well enough to guard twos and threes anymore? That, that I think will tell you.

[Brian Windhorst]

It can be both.

[Bon Temps]

The answer could no and it could be both. The other thing is every guy on the Sixers shot like comically below their expected rate from 3 last year, including Paul George who shot, I think under 30 on open threes. So like, he's always been a very.

[Brian Windhorst]

Good shooter in the case. McMahon.

[Bon Temps]

No, I'm just saying like year, baby.

[McMahon]

He has him right up there with Toronto.

[Bon Temps]

I mean, as I talked about the other day, I think Toronto, Toronto.

[Brian Windhorst]

Remember when they were trying to keep Kawhi Leonard and they had the Kawhi and dying and they said Kawhi would never pay for a, a meal. And they like, they got like dozens and dozens of restaurants in Toronto now.

[Bon Temps]

I'm sure, I'm sure that. I'm sure the, the other things we said about Toronto have people there mad at me. But yeah, look, the Paul George situ. Like at this point, I think you have to be more concerned about what Paul George can give them than Joel Embiid. Based off at least what we've seen in the preseason, which is Joel Embiid had a normal preseason by his standards. Like it was like two years ago when he went into the season and average a point a game. Again, I'm not saying he's going to average a point a game, but he had a normal preseason. He practiced all the way through. He looked good in the scrimmage. He looked good on Friday. He's ready to go next week.

[Brian Windhorst]

A lot of it's about expectations, right? Because when you're coming off an MVP award or you're projected to be like the Eastern Conference champs, and then all of a sudden it's like, well, he missed practice, he missed practice, he's out, he's out. I don't know when he's coming back. Like, that's a problem when you have no expectations and no one's. No one's sure whether they're going to see you October 30th, they're going to see you November 30th, and then all of a sudden pop out there on the court and look pretty good. It. Even though your situation is really just as tenuous as it was before. Because I assume that on Wednesday night, when they host the Celtics to open the season, that that game is in Philly, right?

[Bon Temps]

It's in Boston.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, it's in Boston. Okay. I assume that he will go through the normal pregame thing, right, where he doesn't know. And then he goes, I don't know.

[Bon Temps]

I mean, you would think so, but he didn't do that on Friday. I mean, they ruled him. I'm just. They ruled him in at noon, which is also unusual if he's playing in.

[McMahon]

The scrimmage, a public scrimmage in a preseason game. Like, I would hope there's not a setback between that and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, how can you assume anyway?

[Bon Temps]

Well, you. Well, you can't. But that's the thing. Like, compared to a year ago, a year ago, the story in the preseason about the Sixers was my story about, well, we're going to manage our way through the season and we got this plan to be ready for the final and for the players, we're going to make a deep playoff run.

[Brian Windhorst]

Talk about a want, want, want USWB story. That was a. That was a Quinn. I mean, not that that's what you're just reporting. You went to the Bahamas and brought that story back. And it was. People were like, what? Like, didn't they get fined based on that story? I mean, like.

[McMahon]

But it was.

[Bon Temps]

No, I don't think so, frankly. Yeah, fine.

[McMahon]

For something else, it was organizational arrogance to the extreme of, we're going to load. Manage our way to a high seed. I think they said they were going to load manage their way all the way through the conference finals if I'm not mistaken.

[Bon Temps]

Well, I'm just, I'm just listen, we get aggregated. So I'm just.

[McMahon]

Okay. Aggregators. I'm just kidding. They didn't actually say that. But seriously, the arrogance of like hey yeah, Paul George will play every once in a while and beat will play every once in a while. We'll microwave chemistry of these guys who have never been teammates before and just go on this finals run because it's just a, a birthright of a franchise that hasn't been to the finals since AI's days.

[Bon Temps]

Well, has it been, has it been to the conference finals? Yeah, since 2001, let alone the finals, including this whole Joel and B run. By the way, we, we didn't even talk about this before the pod. Something else happened Friday with the Sixers that we haven't discussed at all. Which is at 8:15 in the morning the Sixers announced as with the rest of Harris Blitzer Sports and Entertainment, the Bob Myers. The Bob Myers, our former colleague, now former four time NBA champion executive with the Golden State warriors is now running all of Harris Blitzer Sports and Entertainment which includes obviously the Sixers and Crystal palace in the Premier League. And he's helping Josh Harris with the Commanders which are not exactly part of it but are sort of. But in our world. Right. The immediate question then is well what is Bob Myers role with the Sixers going to be? That made for an interesting sort of thing hanging over this preseason game on Friday night. Now what I would say is I do not expect Bob Myers to at any point be the president of the Sixers and running the Sixers on a day to day basis. However, if he is officially in a job overseeing the Sixers and other teams that would at least indicate that. And by the way, when he already had a job where he was like consulting in some vague term.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now he's official arrangement as far as I know was that he, his, his consult consulting and this was us out of respect to Daryl Morey as well that he didn't get involved on after.

[Bon Temps]

The way last year went to then have this happen before the season. It's only going to, you know, open up questions about what the future of the Sixers is going to.

[McMahon]

Is Daryl Morey reporting any way, shape or form to Bob Myers?

[Bon Temps]

I believe the answer to that is no. According to Adam Schefter's story on Friday.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I believe he reports to Josh Harris and David Blitzer who is leave.

[McMahon]

That to Myers on a regular basis on all things.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will also say this about Bob. I've just, it's been an absolute joy over the last couple of years to spend so many hours with Bob, watching these games, traveling with him.

[McMahon]

Also part of the reason why he left us, but go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Might be so. I think it was more a Perk, by the way. The, you know, he and Perk used to get into pretty significant back and forths on air and sometimes it seems a little bit mean spirited, like a little. With a little edge. Just so you know, like he was Perk's agent and like got tens of, yes, negotiated Perk, tens of millions of dollars in contracts. But Bob has this incredible ability to disarm situations and boil things down. He, you know, he'll just, he'll look at a complex situation and say two sentences and you're like, that is actually exactly the situation. Or that is actually.

[McMahon]

Daryl Morey has the opposite ability to take something you might think is simple and make it extremely complicated.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, well, that's the whole example.

[McMahon]

The Rockets missed 27 straight threes to lose a Game 7 at home to Bob Myers, Golden State Warriors. And next thing you know there's this like, I mean, 14 trees are killed for the report on the refereeing in the game that the Rockets were complaining about that.

[Bon Temps]

And that also is why I brought up the Bob thinking part, is that I do think it's worth pointing out that like, I do not see envision any scenario where Bob Myers is ever president of the Sixers, nor is he trying to be.

[Brian Windhorst]

I also, yeah, I also here's the thing. Like last year, a number of teams, some of which have been reported and some of which haven't been, came to Bob Myers and wanted him to be their general manager and offered him enormous sums of money and enormous conditions. And Bob respectfully took the meetings and then turned all that down. Yeah, so he was only going to, you know, he was not going to take NBA Team X general manager job. It was going to be a special job. By the way, I will say something about the. When you talk about making things complex or making things simple, one of the things when I talk to people, especially maybe people who are not sports fans at all or don't really understand much about the NBA and they ask me about the NBA, I say to them, one of the things that you find out when you spend a lot of time involved with the NBA is there are certain things that happen in the league where you cannot believe the complexity behind it. You cannot believe what teams do or organizations do to vet, protect, develop, blah, blah, blah, like, 15 different layers. You're like, wow, this is unbelievable. And then at the same time, you will see things that are incredibly shallow and done without thought, and you're like, wait a minute. That team did that without doing this.

[McMahon]

Petting hours. Some. Some decision making, for sure. I think we've all seen that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. So, anyway, best of luck to Bob, but, hey, my.

[McMahon]

Dang.

[Bon Temps]

Whoa.

[McMahon]

I don't know what's going on. Listen, I got fancy lighting. I don't know what's going on with it. Third time this thing's collapsed.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Texas Longhorn season.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, personified that. That and the Sixers season last year.

[McMahon]

But the Sixers, last year at this time, it was pretty much consensus that they were somewhere in the pack of contenders. They weren't the favorites the Celtics were, but they were considered.

[Bon Temps]

They were supposed to be. They were supposed to be taking swings with Boston at the top of the East. That was where they were at.

[McMahon]

And now, no, there's, like you said, Wendy, there's really no expectations, but there's definitely still a ceiling for them to be, I don't know, contenders. Feels pretty bold that there's a ceiling for them to know.

[Bon Temps]

You can't say. Yeah, you can't say they can be. You can't say they're contenders. You could say that if things go right, could the Sixers finish third or fourth in the east in the regular season? Sure, I could see that.

[McMahon]

Yeah.

[Bon Temps]

And then, you know, they could win around and maybe have a puncher's chance to win two if it, like, high end. But no, I don't. I don't think anybody should be saying more than that. And look, if they can, again, if they win 44 games and have a top six seed after last year, people are going to go, hey, right. Top Sixers on the other end, people will say, hey, that. That's a good season for Philly. Right. Which shows you just how horribly last year went and how through the floor, the expectations are now for what this team can be or should be compared to where they were a year ago.

[McMahon]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Bon Temps]

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[McMahon]

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Bon Temps]

Oh another discovery.

[Brian Windhorst]

Memphis Grizzlies Medical A bad.

[Bon Temps]

A bad discovery.

[McMahon]

Not even the one we're holding our breath for after.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, so. Well you just had said the other day, you know Jaren Jackson came back from the surgery. Scottie Pippen Jr. Who has really been a success story for them big time.

[McMahon]

One of the great bargain contracts on a non rookie deal in the NBA is undergoing.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know if he's already undergone it, but they said he announced he is going to have a surgery that has a very long name but basically they're going to take a piece of bone out of his foot.

[Bon Temps]

Not great.

[Brian Windhorst]

Great.

[McMahon]

No.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they say a timeline will be.

[Bon Temps]

Sham. Said he's going to be reevaluated in 12 weeks. 12 weeks from now is middle January. That ain't great.

[McMahon]

And listen, JA has expressed optimism that he will be back for the opener. That's not a sure thing as he's coming off a sprained ankle. And then the the medical report that we have not received yet from the Grizzlies is on Ty Jerome who you know a nice off season pickup for them. You know, former resident of Cavs Corner who really had a great year last year for Cleveland and but a guy.

[Bon Temps]

Who'S had a lot of injuries.

[McMahon]

Yeah. And hurt his calf in the preseason finale. And we all understand calf injuries are not quick.

[Bon Temps]

Calves are not quick.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, let's like real talk, what do we think the Grizzlies are going to be this year?

[Bon Temps]

Hurt? I yeah I think this every year you see a couple Teams that you think, you know, I mean, Philly's obviously, Philly's always hurt. I mean, I guess they're sort of like Memphis, obviously not the same expectations. But you see a couple teams come into the year and they just never get right from a health standpoint and their season does not go the way that they expected it to. And if you look at where Memphis is at, they have their pick. They have probably this Phoenix pick. Like two high value assets, potentially. Like they just drafted Cedric Coward last year in the first round. They're very high on him long term. Like we've talked a lot about Boston and Indy having gap years in the Western Conference. Especially if you get in a hole early, not sure you're getting out of it. You know, these guys could be down three point guards and three centers at the start of the season. Trying to think if there's a third center. Brandon Clark is out, Zach Eady's out, Jock could be out. Ty Jerome could be out. Scottie Pippen's out for months. Like that's already five of their top, what, nine guys. So, you know, this could quickly turn into a season where Memphis winds up being in a position to jump up in the lottery and get one or two bites at what we just talked about is a really loaded top of this draft, even if it's not what they were hoping for. I mean, I think you'd agree, McMahon, when they made the Desmond Bain trade, it's not like they were trying to be in the lottery this year. They thought they could still be a good team, but all these injuries they've had, it's going to be really, really hard for them to get off to a good start.

[McMahon]

Well, the Desmond Bain trade, and by the way, they had the kind of season you're talking about a couple years ago, unfortunately, when Josh missed all but nine games because of the suspension and then the shoulder injury that that ended his season when it was just getting started. But the Desmond Bane trade was an admission that the version of the Grizzlies, you know, that chapter of the Grizzlies wasn't good enough. You know, I mean, and then you mentioned what was it three or four years ago and you're future power rankings that you do with, with Bobby and Pelton, the Grizzlies, what was it, 22 when they were number one in those.

[Bon Temps]

I'm gonna go back and look right.

[McMahon]

Now, definitely big time optimism about this franchise not that long ago and then that that core won a playoff series.

[Bon Temps]

One Memphis, Memphis in March of 22 was first in October of 22, was first in October of 23, was fourth and have gone to 12th and 17th since.

[McMahon]

Yeah. And so the Bain trade was an admission of, hey, we thought we had something that was going to be cooking for a while and it wasn't good enough. They were an eight seed that got swept in the first round and that was the reality of where that franchise was. And we can talk. Well, they were leading by 29 points or whatever when Ja got hurt in the game. 3. Dude, okay, if jaw's healthy, it's a gentleman sweep instead of a straight up sweep. Whatever, right? They weren't nearly good enough. And they didn't make the Desmond Bain trade to get better right now. They made the Desmond Bain trade to try to reconfigure the roster specifically around Jaren Jackson Jr. And I say that it's. It's actions over. Over words because the actions are Jaren Jackson Jr got his extension the most they could give him. The second they could give it to him despite the fact that they knew at the time he needed toe surgery. John Moran was extension eligible this summer. There weren't discussions. There wasn't an attempt. That doesn't mean he's definitely not going to be part of the Grizzlies future, but it's very much a wait and see type of thing at the moment. And I mean Kleiman at media days that Kleiman there's gm. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said we can all agree that this is a big year for JA and if the Grizzlies in this form are ever going to be a factor, John Morant's got to be a superstar. If John Morant's not a superstar, a healthy superstar, then the Grizzlies have a decision to make.

[Bon Temps]

Brian, you know what I was thinking this weekend? I was thinking that my bet with McMahon is taking some hits because Memphis has had all these injuries. And Sacramento, which I picked over Philly in the wins pool, not looking like a smart pick. I was going back and forth on Sacramento and Philly. Philly and well, I know that Sacramento's not looking great on a variety of levels. Not the amount of Sabonis hurt, Keegan Murray's hurt and McMahon is sitting here after he whined about the over under and I gave him a couple wins. Well, it's looking, looking tougher for me out of the gate than it was a couple a week or so ago.

[McMahon]

Unfortunately, I whine to get it lower and I'll Be whining and dining on your dime, baby.

[Bon Temps]

We'll see, we'll see. One way to go.

[Brian Windhorst]

They'll pick it up.

[Bon Temps]

That's right, that's right. Just do it for the finals and it'll be great.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're in Toronto for the finals. It'll just be like it wiped away.

[Bon Temps]

That's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

You mentioned Keegan Murray. I think since we did our last pod, Keegan Murray landed a contract extension and an injury. I think he had the injury already.

[Bon Temps]

The injury and the extension were before Friday's pod, but we never really talked about it. One thing that happened since then is Damon Sabonis is going to miss the opener with his own hamstring injury.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, Sabonis hurt his hamstring.

[McMahon]

Does 140 over five years seem a bit rich for Keegan Murray?

[Brian Windhorst]

So, you know, this has been funny. So by the time we do our next podcast, we'll pass the deadline for rookie extensions.

[Bon Temps]

The deadline is the deadline for people that don't know for rookie guys on rookie scale contracts and for veterans with multiple years left on their deal is tonight. The pods running Monday, Monday night at 6pm Eastern time.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I'm sure there will be some. But this Sacramento, the Sacramento deal with, with Keegan Murray has been an interesting one because so the average for that is 28 million a year. And there's some teams that are, you know, fully locked. You know, they're just absolutely. There's all these meetings and all these back and forth. This happens every year. There's this, this tense weekend that happens right before the start of the season. A couple of the scouts who were in for the debance the game this week were, you know, hey, do you know what so and so is offering? You know? Hey, well, yeah, no, no, no, I, I am like, yeah, I'm here. You're offering this. No, that's not, that's not right. But it's close. It's close, you know, but you know, we have a walk away. We have a walk away. Anyway, it's funny, the Keegan thing because like there's some agents that are like, like man, like Keegan gets 28 a year. Like I don't think anybody's getting more than that. You know, there was some guys who wanted 30. Like man, like that really establishes a cap. I'm not sure we're going to be able to get our guy more than that. You know, all the numbers are coming down now. Like so and so might only get 22 a year because there's a bunch of these guys, you know, Shaden Sharp, Christian Brown, Dyson Daniels. Who am I forgetting?

[McMahon]

Bon Temps Tari Eason.

[Bon Temps]

Those are the four guys most likely to get extensions done between.

[Brian Windhorst]

All of those guys are probably going to get somewhere between 20 a year and, and Keegan Murray's 28. I would be surprised if any of them get more than 28, but maybe some of them.

[Bon Temps]

Nobody's getting more than 28. I'd be surprised if any of them get more than 25, but by the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Time this point comes out, that'll be known probably.

[Bon Temps]

But the point is that's that this was the capper of the range of those guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So, you know, they're, you know, there's agents going, man, I just, you know, this, this lowers the whole market a little bit and you got teams going, oh yeah, I can't believe they gave him 28.

[McMahon]

And I think you guys pointed this out in your Romo Whit notebook on Friday that The Jabari Smith Jr. Deals aging pretty well already for the Rockets and it hadn't even kicked in yet.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, I mean that I think could end up being a backstop for a bunch of these negotiations too. Jabari signed for five years, 120 million back in July. The kind of deal that usually gets done now is interesting that it got done by Rafael Stone then. I thought the Kiki Murray deal was pretty good. There are not a lot of six, eight guys who are legitimate two way players on the wing. And Keegan Murray's a very good shooter. He's a guy that gets up six, seven threes a game and I think has potential to do a little bit more if he had the ball in his hands more obviously he's been on these Kings teams where he's been the third or fourth or fifth option a lot of the time for them. So I, I think that that deal will age nicely.

[Brian Windhorst]

He also typically never misses time. He's never right. Yeah, he's only missed, he's never missed more than six games in a season.

[Bon Temps]

Right now he's got this fluke, I mean, some injury obviously, so he's missing some time. But I, I like, he's clearly a higher pedigree player than all these other guys who are up for extensions right now. And like I, I thought that deal ultimately was, was pretty solid.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I'm look, well, here's the thing. This is, you know, this is our rule. If you had to trade it tomorrow, could you trade it?

[Bon Temps]

Oh, yes, 1,000%.

[McMahon]

You say he's a two way player. I hear what you're saying. I'm just going to point out he's averaged 13.3 points per game in his career and it was 12.4 last year. And for a guy who's known as a shooter, his three point percentage has dropped each year.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true.

[McMahon]

41. 36. 34.

[Bon Temps]

That is true. But he's a guy, he's on a. But he's a guy that funky fit.

[McMahon]

Because he's on a King's team where there's a whole lot of guys who need the ball and not a whole lot who pass the ball.

[Bon Temps]

But he's a quality on ball defender at 68 who can guard multiple positions and he's a guy that teams are playing. Afraid of shooting the ball. Yeah, he is 100% a threat from the three point line. Obviously it'd be good for him to get his percentage back up this year when he gets back. But that I think he's a very tradable player and I think, I think that's a good contract for everybody. It's good for him to lock in money. This is a solid deal for the Kings and I think for the other teams that are negotiating, it was a good backstop because he I think is clearly seen as a higher level, higher level player than all these other guys who are negotiating, which is why they're all probably going to end up somewhere between 20 and 25 if they sign over the next 48 hours or so.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kings signed another player to a 3 million dollar contract.

[McMahon]

3.6. Who would that be? Number 18.

[Bon Temps]

Number 18.

[McMahon]

Somebody called him a journeyman.

[Brian Windhorst]

18Th.

[McMahon]

Yeah. Number 18.

[Brian Windhorst]

Season.

[Bon Temps]

Oh yeah, that's right.

[McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think it's only about his 10th team though.

[Bon Temps]

You know what the crazy thing is? I think you can maybe make an argument. Rush should start right now for the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kings over your future hall of Famer, Dennis Schroeder.

[Bon Temps]

No, I think with Dennis Schroeder because he. If you look at. I mean, I guess you could have him. You could. You certainly. I think it's quite likely comes off the bench. But with no Keegan Murray, they don't really have a lot of size. I think they started Dario Sarich in their last preseason game at the 4. Russ is going to rebound and he's obviously physical and he's an okay on ball defender. He gets into his guy. He loses guys as we know when he's off the ball. But I, I think with Keegan Murray and the Bonus Sabonis out, you could make an argument to start Him. But by the way, like with Keegan Murray to bonus. The bonus out again. To go back to my earlier comment about my. My spurs bet. Not. Not an ideal way for the Kings, who already had a strange off season to start this season. And between them and Memphis hall of.

[Brian Windhorst]

Fame, if they do that, they'd be starting two hall of Fame guards.

[McMahon]

Well. And a Hall of Famer on the wing or at the four. And DeMar DeRozan.

[Bon Temps]

DeMar DeRozan. It's true.

[McMahon]

But again, it's a lot of guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think. I think all three of them are getting in.

[McMahon]

I do, too.

[Bon Temps]

Tim wasn't being facetious.

[McMahon]

Yeah, you put the. I. Yeah, seriously. But if you put the three of them on the floor together, especially with Sabon, it's like, God, the spacing is like. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's like 19.

[Bon Temps]

It's a strange team. It's a really strange team.

[Brian Windhorst]

We just have talked so much about, you know, we. We did our west coast tears pod the last we did, and we're like, you know, grappling with each other over, you know, where to put these teams. And these teams are all like, you know, you're an injury away from being in trouble, I realized. But these teams are all. We're having trouble ranking them because, you know, even the Lakers, we're having trouble figuring out where to put the Lakers. They're. They're potentially starting, you know, they're going to start two hall of Famers when LeBron gets healthy. And, you know, I don't. Austrians could make the All Star team this year.

[McMahon]

Could.

[Brian Windhorst]

And, and we're, and we're.

[Bon Temps]

Austin Reeves will not make the All Star team. I'm going to say he's gonna get.

[McMahon]

The LA boost, too. Don't.

[Brian Windhorst]

Don't.

[Bon Temps]

Well, no, but here's the thing. Here's the thing. This is. This is a. This is the thing, right? With these new rules for the All Star Game, it's going to kill a guy like Austin Reeves. Honestly, no, because there's only 16. There's only 16Americans that can make the team.

[McMahon]

Yeah, but if it was 12 and 12, it would kill them. But 16 is about where the numbers were anyway.

[Brian Windhorst]

See, how many.

[Bon Temps]

I'm saying, how many Americans. Austin Reeves, like, the LA Boost isn't necessarily going to come into play when you're just basically ranking the 16 best American players.

[McMahon]

If Jackson Hayes gets a Slovenian passport, does he count as American or an international player? How do these things work if you got a passport? You're international. I don't think it's necessarily going to come into play for All Star Games. I'm just inquiring also with, you know, the Thompson twins.

[Bon Temps]

It's one of the many reasons why. I just think this.

[Brian Windhorst]

17Americans made it last year.

[McMahon]

Okay. So just, it's roughly, you know, pretty close to I. When they started talking about this whole thing. If it was 12 and 12.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, what do we do with Carl Towns? Are we, Carl, Are we calling Carl Towns an American? Are we get around?

[Bon Temps]

That's a good, that's a good question, Carl. I think will. I bet, I bet if we call his agent, she'll be saying Carl plays with the Dominican Republic.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he does.

[Bon Temps]

He's an Internet. No, I, I know. I'm saying he should be an international player. I, I would say he is an international player for them.

[Brian Windhorst]

I forgot to count. I miscounted.

[Bon Temps]

But either way, I just, it's. I, I can't. I'm already dreading the discussions about the All Star rosters in January when it's like, oh, we have to do a quota system to figure out who is going to make the, the, the team for the quote unquote, Ryder cup style format.

[McMahon]

Speaking of taking something very simple and making it really complicated.

[Bon Temps]

No kidding. Yes, exactly. Exactly. But yes, Austin could have a very good year.

[Brian Windhorst]

What are we counting here? Real talk. What are we counting? Amen Thompson as. I mean like we might want to ask that question if he's going to plan on declaring.

[Bon Temps]

Maybe, maybe, maybe that's why. Maybe that's where this is coming from.

[Brian Windhorst]

Listen, let's, let's. Texas. And you can sit on that.

[McMahon]

You can say, well, it's, you know, where, where were they born? Okay, then Kyrie Irving's International also, by.

[Bon Temps]

The way, just to flip this the other way, right. Every year the top four or four or five of the top MVP candidates are international players.

[McMahon]

Yeah, there's, there's, there's several. No brainer. International, for sure.

[Bon Temps]

Well, right, but like last year, Luca didn't, didn't play in the All Star Game. So like, you know, like we, we could be looking at a scenario where we're having a quota system on the other end of it. It's just, it's completely insane that we're doing this. It's completely insane.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, again, it depends on, depends on a couple of things like where you put in Carl Towns. Where are you putting Amen Thompson who might make the All Star team this year?

[McMahon]

We'll see.

[Brian Windhorst]

Just crazy. Speaking of international stars. Shake it loose, Alexander. I Believe will be on the All Star roster. And he is a Canadian safe bet. I believe you're headed up i35.

[McMahon]

I'm gonna just take a little leap over the Red river up and down.

[Bon Temps]

McMahon's got a back to. Back to open the season.

[McMahon]

I do, Mike.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[McMahon]

Both Mike Wright and Mark gonna be with me on. On both ends too. We're triple covering both those games.

[Bon Temps]

Wow.

[McMahon]

Talking about Rock KD and the Rockets and OKC for ring night. And then Cooper Flag making his debut against Wimby and the spurs in Dallas 24 hours later.

[Bon Temps]

Should be a fun couple games for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, did you guys see the Victor Wembanyama step through? I guess what we call it, step through or jump.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, I dropped it. I dropped it in the chat last night, bro. And what did you say when I dropped it in?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I know.

[Bon Temps]

I know. But what did. But what did you say when. What did you say when I dropped.

[McMahon]

It in the chat?

[Brian Windhorst]

What was your response? I. I said it was legal.

[Bon Temps]

It was one word, legal.

[McMahon]

And he's at 18ft and steps through into a layup, which is ridiculous. Although I'll say this, it is ridiculous. I've seen Shay because Shea is a master of the pump fake pivot game. I have seen Shay go into what looks like a baseline, like a little 12, 14 foot baseline. Turnaround, pump fake, step through into a layup at six. Six. So Wimby's doing this at seven foot. Whatever. But I mean, the guy was, you know, Mike Wright had the story about his summer. Like all the stuff for the monks in China got a lot of attention. But this dude went and worked with Akeem.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

And you see it. You said like there was a. I.

[Brian Windhorst]

Never saw team do that. Well, I saw him do a lot of stuff. I did not see Jackson. Do you remember a guy named Akeem Olajuwon?

[Bon Temps]

Oh, man. God, I felt so old when Jackson didn't know who Eric Metcalf was for the pod.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, that was a rough.

[Bon Temps]

That was a rough. That was a rough moment.

[Brian Windhorst]

So anyway, Tuesday night, you'll be there at ring night. Ring night is always special. Jalen Williams probably. Yeah, probably not playing, but they'll be. They'll be loaded. You know, the Thunder have just been installed as the favorites and we haven't spent much time talking about them, but, you know, I don't know if you heard, but they're still pretty good. And they start their title defense on Tuesday. And you know, I. They haven't. That I have seen you Know, talked much about. You know, there's some people that have, you know, felt that, you know, they under, they underappreciated them last year, and they haven't leaned on that.

[Bon Temps]

But I would say there are plenty of. There are more people doubting them this year than there should be. I would say that.

[McMahon]

But here's the deal. You know, Sam Presti has his sit down with the media before training camp every year, and he really, shockingly puts a ton of thought into that. And there are these marathon sessions, but he has messages that he clearly wants to get across. Remember, we've had a lot of fun in the last couple years. We haven't finished our breakfast yet, you know, and then they've done a lot of eating since then and even a little bit of drinking last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Very little bit.

[McMahon]

For the first time.

[Brian Windhorst]

For very little.

[Bon Temps]

The most, the most little bit.

[Brian Windhorst]

But that was the driest chance title celebration. That said, it was great to see. I, I, I, They've had some low moments in that franchise, losing players, having bad luck. Most of those guys have been around for a really long time to put it together.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, it was awesome.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was a very, it was great to see a lot of people who worked really hard satisfied. But it was a very dry. Yeah, a dry celebration.

[McMahon]

It's hard to have a championship hangover if you don't get drunk. And I don't think literally or metaphorically.

[Brian Windhorst]

That is spoken from a man who knows about hangovers.

[McMahon]

I don't think literally, metaphorically that the Thunder got drunk on their championship. But Prestis, there's five words that I really took. Five words, Two separate phrases that I really took from his marathon. Sit down this month. Chasing improvement. That I think he said it multiple times. Chasing improvement is what he, what he wants them doing this year. Not defending a championship. Chasing improvement, which is just as boring as hell, but basically the same type of approach mentality that they took to get to that point, then wanted to change. And then this is a great one. This is a Presti one. Builders, not guardians.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. Oh, my God.

[McMahon]

We're building toward this.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[McMahon]

We're not guarding last year's championship. That.

[Bon Temps]

I mean, I could see Sam. I could see Sam. I did not watch the presser. I'd some. I need to go back and look at it at some point.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, we're having a little bit of.

[Bon Temps]

I can hear Sam saying that line in my head.

[Brian Windhorst]

Were having a little bit of laugh with it. But like, these Presti, like, he probably.

[Bon Temps]

I'm not, I'm Having no laughs. That's. I can literally hear Sam's. That's like. That's like the breakfast. Like, that's a. They have prototypical Sam line.

[McMahon]

They have the best culture in the league. I wrote a story about kind of their boy scout buying the boring culture last year. You can say they're, you know, call it program by Presti, whatever. They buy into the stuff that helps them improve on a daily basis. They buy into the stuff that allows them to be the youngest championship team in 50 years.

[Brian Windhorst]

Presti had had another line. I think it was. I don't see last year or the year before, but he said, there's no silver platters in Oklahoma.

[Bon Temps]

Yes, yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Which is. You know, that was the thing. You know what he said this year? You know, our. Our colleague. Our ex colleague, David Thorpe, who was with us for about a decade, basketball skills coach David Thorpe wrote a book called Basketball is Jazz.

[McMahon]

Also a old line Holger Geschwinder used to use Dirk's guru.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, Holger used David Thorpe.

[McMahon]

No use basketball.

[Bon Temps]

The line. Basketball is jazz.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, basketball is jazz. The concept of the way jazz bands play, which is sort of a combination of. I hope I'm getting this right. If I'm not, I'll be. I'll hear from coach. It's a combination of individual, you know, going off on your own, following a script, but going with a flow, playing as a group, freelancing. You know, the concept of a jazz band.

[McMahon]

Who knows that better than famed jazz rapper Sam Presti?

[Brian Windhorst]

Right? That's right. That was a Pablo Torre thing. Anyway, this year, Sam said basketball is poker because he says. He said people. Some people say that basketball is chess, but that's not true in the NBA, because in chess, everybody gets the same pieces, whereas in the NBA, everybody has to play the hand that they're dealt differently. And that is absolutely incredibly well said.

[McMahon]

And the Thunder have the reason.

[Bon Temps]

It's a reason. Well, there's a reason why go fish for a while.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they. They drew a nice one.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah. There's a reason why Sam has helmed that Franchi guys in a way few people have for the last 20 years, because he sees the league in a way few people have. But.

[McMahon]

But you know what? To me, your culture's as good as your superstar, and their culture with Shea is a lot different than their culture with Russ.

[Bon Temps]

Well, and look, Sam. Sam will be the first one to say that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right?

[Bon Temps]

Like, I mean, he was. I mean, his formative days were in San Antonio with Tim Duncan and like, you look at Tim Duncan with the spurs, you look at Steph with the warriors, who look at, you know, Dirk with the Mavs, you look at Michael Jordan with the Bull. Like you go back through history like the, the best players are the ones who set the tone and Sam can get up there and say whatever he wants. And he, I said the same thing to all of us and would say it to anybody else. Like it doesn't matter if your star player isn't embodying what you're trying to do and delivering it to the players and embodying it on the court and living it every day. And Shea obviously does that on a 365 day basis. And it's, you know, it's why the Thunder and the position they're in. But to me, like the, you know, the Builder's, not the guardians thing like that, that is a very samism like the we haven't finished our breakfast yet. But I do think chasing improvement I think is the way to look at their season in that they won 68 games last year with one of the youngest teams to ever win a title when they had a lot of injuries throughout the year, although they were healthy in the playoffs, they had as you repeatedly pointed out, their two centers missed combined well over half the season. And all these guys should get better. Like they should be better this year. They should be a team that is winning over 65 games again. They should frankly win close to 70 games. Like they should be as good or better than they were last year. And like if they settle back to 57, 58 wins, frankly I think that will be a disappointing regular season assuming reasonable health for them because they like I see people picking Denver and Houston and you know, maybe the Cavs or the Knicks can go toe to toe with them. Like I think all of that is crazy. The Thunder dominated the league last year. Yes, they had the seven game series with Indiana and Denver where they kicked away a couple games and those series went long. But wire to wire, they were the best team in the league and to me they should come into this season despite every, you know, every attempt by Sam and the Thunder to say otherwise as the prohibitive massive favorites. And to me there's only one acceptable outcome for them which is to finally be the first team to win a title in back to back years since the warriors with Durant in 17 and 18. Like they, unless they have injuries, they should beat everybody. They should win again.

[McMahon]

And by the way, you mentioned those seven game series, I was up there for a preseason game to work on a story that'll come out. I think mid November is when it's scheduled. But anyways, I'm talking to guys about this and multiple guys. Shea Caruso, I think a couple other guys brought up, hey, it ain't like we were, you know, the, the 2001 Lakers and just cruise to the championship. Like, we got taken to seven games twice. Like, we're crazy if we don't think there are avenues for improvement. But it's funny because, like, I asked dagonal like, okay, 68 wins a championship. What are you looking to improve? And it gave me such a daggernaut, OKC type of answer. We've got to be open minded, got to take the feedback from each game, you know, I mean, but I can.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I can hear Mark saying, I.

[Bon Temps]

Can hear Mark saying that too.

[McMahon]

Like, we laugh about it. He's not. They're not like BSing like, they believe they live all this stuff.

[Bon Temps]

Well, I mean, yes, you know, they are. They are, they are. There is some bs like when.

[McMahon]

But they follow through basis.

[Bon Temps]

I know they do. I'm just. Let me have a little fun with Mark. Like when Mark got asked before the Thunder Mavs game for some thoughts on Cooper Flag and essentially said, yeah, I've never seen him play before I got to watch tonight.

[McMahon]

Or when I asked him about, okay, hey, it was just me and him. He kind of evaded a question in the group with about J Dub's timeline. And I was like the optimistic, optimistic about the opener. And he gave me some, you know, nothing answer. And then he goes, I've been working here for 12 years. Come on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Exactly right. And that is exactly right.

[Bon Temps]

Yes, that's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Speaking of jazz, why they're great. I believe that Tuesday night when the, when the Thunder get their banner, we'll be hearing some symphonic rock. Oh, Round ball rock. So we welcome our colleagues at NBC back and when. Which will be. They'll be broadcasting that game. And we also welcome our new teammates. Von Temps is being hauled away at long.

[Bon Temps]

I am. Yeah, clearly.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome our new teammates with Inside the NBA. She'll be debuting with us on ESPN on Wednesday. And with that, we begin a season. My 23rd. McMahon.

[McMahon]

I don't know because I was like football and basketball for a while, but.

[Brian Windhorst]

Just count them all. Count them all.

[McMahon]

It's been like, it's been like, I think 18, 19, something like that.

[Bon Temps]

14 for me.

[Brian Windhorst]

14. I had to count Jackson. Was it like five?

[Bon Temps]

I don't, I mean, Jackson, I can't, I can't hear from Jackson again after this Eric thing. It just killed me.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, Jackson's going to the Chiefs game on Sunday, so we'll let him get some sleep. Get him ready for that. He's a closet Chiefs fan for reasons that we can't discuss.

[McMahon]

He's got a buddy there. Jackson's like me, if it's free. If it's free, it's for me. It's in Jacksonville.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. He learned that from watching you.

[McMahon]

I. I don't think I invented that. I think I just fell.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think you should get him. I know. Christmas throwback Eric Metcalf, number 21 Longhorns jersey.

[McMahon]

I looked down in Austin.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bon Temps. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you for watching Listening Hoop Collective. Hey, we'll talk to to you after the NBA season kicks off next week.

[McMahon]

Adios, amigos.

[Bon Temps]

Talk about stepping up.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's time to level up your game. Introducing the allnew ESPN Apple. All of ESPN all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and the best championship moments.

[McMahon]

The electricity is powerful.

[Brian Windhorst]

Step up your game. With no annual contract required. It's the ultimate fan experience. Level up. For More on the ESPN app or at stream.espn.com sign up now.