AD Injury Impact, Bold Quotes From Dallas & James Harden Interview

Summary

Hoop Collective Podcast Summary: AD Injury Impact, Bold Quotes From Dallas & James Harden Interview

Episode Title: AD Injury Impact, Bold Quotes From Dallas & James Harden Interview
Release Date: February 10, 2025
Hosts: Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, Bam Adebayo
Guest: James Harden
Presented by: State Farm

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1. Anthony Davis' Injury and Its Impact on the Dallas Mavericks

[01:26] Bam Adebayo:
Bam Adebayo opens the discussion with a humorous remark before delving into the serious topic of Anthony Davis' injury. Davis suffered a left groin strain after playing nearly three quarters in his Mavericks debut following a significant trade. This injury is expected to sideline him for a minimum of several weeks, posing a substantial risk to the Mavericks' championship aspirations.

Notable Quote:
"Anthony Davis being out multiple weeks at the minimum due to a left groin strain after playing basically three quarters of a game for the Mavericks following a trade..." — Bam Adebayo [02:09]

2. Analysis of the Mavericks' Trade for Anthony Davis

The Mavericks' acquisition of Anthony Davis was intended to elevate the team as an immediate contender by complementing Luka Doncic. However, Davis' history of durability issues raises concerns about the long-term viability of this move.

Tim Bontemps emphasizes the potential jeopardy the Mavericks face, noting that if Davis misses a significant portion of the remainder of the season, Dallas could find itself outside playoff contention, reminiscent of their struggles two years prior.

Notable Quotes:
"He's a pretty, it's pretty concerning." — Tim Bontemps [04:52]
"The Mavericks are stupid. He got hurt." — Brian Windhorst [07:57]

3. Opinions and Reactions from ESPN Insiders

The panel expresses strong skepticism regarding the Mavericks' decision to trade for Davis, especially given his early injury. Bam Adebayo defends Nico Harrison's leadership and the organization's commitment, while Brian Windhorst criticizes the Mavericks, suggesting that external factors like Davis' injury exacerbate existing strategic flaws.

Notable Quotes:
"I think it's an extraordinarily competitive west, they go into the lottery." — Tim Bontemps [04:59]
"The Mavericks are stupid. He got hurt." — Brian Windhorst [07:57]
"Any old trade. Any old trade." — Bam Adebayo [10:12]

4. Recent NBA Trade News: Lakers' Rescinded Trade

The discussion shifts to the Los Angeles Lakers, who recently rescinded a trade for Mark Williams three days after initially agreeing to it. The likely reason for the reversal was Williams failing to pass the physical examination, raising questions about the Lakers' scouting and negotiation processes.

Tim Bontemps draws parallels to a similar past trade involving Tyson Chandler, highlighting the risks associated with acquiring players who may have underlying health issues.

Notable Quotes:
"It's the first time that the Lakers have ever mentioned the Hornets." — Brian Windhorst [43:23]
"They just have to do a physical before the trade becomes official." — Tim Bontemps [44:42]

5. Western Conference Standings and Team Performances

The hosts provide a comprehensive overview of the Western Conference landscape, spotlighting teams like the Oklahoma City Thunder, Memphis Grizzlies, Golden State Warriors, Phoenix Suns, and Portland Trail Blazers. The Thunder, led by standout performances from players like Shay Giddey and Chad Holmgren, are highlighted as formidable contenders despite recent setbacks.

Notable Insights:

• The Thunder have a strong record but face challenges with player injuries.
• The Grizzlies maintain a significant lead but remain within reach.
• The Trail Blazers' defensive prowess has been a key factor in their recent success.
• The Phoenix Suns and Portland Trail Blazers exhibit varying degrees of improvement and consistency.

6. Interview with James Harden

In an engaging segment, James Harden joins the podcast to discuss his career evolution, work ethic, and perspectives on the current state of the NBA.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Commercial Endeavors: Harden reflects on his numerous commercials, expressing excitement about his latest Super Bowl spot with Pringles.

• Advice for Younger Players: Emphasizing the importance of footwork and professional conduct, Harden encourages younger athletes to prioritize skill development and professionalism over purely analytical approaches.

• Opinions on the Game: Addressing criticisms about the NBA's evolving playstyle, Harden acknowledges the influence of analytics but stresses the need for players to adapt and maintain their work ethic.

• Relationship with Coaches: Harden praises Jeff Van Gundy, highlighting their strong working relationship and mutual respect, which contributes to the Clippers' success.

Notable Quotes:
"That's my life. That's everything for me. Like, my footwork is how I get past people and how I create the advantage..." — James Harden [88:30]
"I feel like there's a lot of things that's wrong with it, but, like, what am I going to do to change it?" — James Harden [89:32]
"We're excited for each other's success. Like, we're excited for, like, it might be Norm one night, it might be Zoo one night, it might be me." — James Harden [95:12]

7. Closing Remarks

Brian Windhorst wraps up the episode by acknowledging the dynamic and often unpredictable nature of the NBA season. The hosts express optimism for the Thunder's prospects while maintaining caution regarding the Mavericks' future without a healthy Anthony Davis.

Notable Quote:
"If Kawhi's playing top level and you're playing top level, I don't want you in a one game playoff." — James Harden [95:41]

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Conclusion

This episode of the Hoop Collective delves deep into the ramifications of Anthony Davis' injury on the Dallas Mavericks, critically examines the strategic decisions behind significant trades, and offers a candid interview with James Harden. The discussion underscores the volatile nature of the NBA season, where injuries and strategic maneuvers can drastically alter team trajectories. Listeners gain valuable insights into team dynamics, player performances, and the intricate balance between immediate gains and long-term sustainability in professional basketball.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas. And certainly we'll be talking later in this podcast, but all the stuff that happened in Dallas on Saturday and the interview that the governor of the team, Patrick Dumont, gave on Sunday. But first, here's Bam McMahon.

[Bam Adebayo]

Howdy, partners. Wendy, I regret to inform you that your hair looked a lot better earlier today.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I know it's late at night. I don't even really think we need to do this addition to the pod, but I got.

[Bam Adebayo]

I'm sorry. Anthony Davis being out multiple weeks at the minimum due to a left ductor strain after playing basically three quarters of a game for the Mavericks following a trade where he was the headliner of the return for Luka Doncic, who got traded in large part because the Mavericks believed his body was breaking down. With Davis's unfortunate history of durability issues. Yeah, this is a pretty major development.

[Brian Windhorst]

He got hurt. Happens.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah. Unfortunately, again, his history is it happens a lot with Anthony Davis. Anthony. And he is the guy they targeted to get for a 25 year old generational superstar who, yes, he's missed a ton of games this year. Yes, he's had constant condition issues, but yes, he was fresh off leading this team to the Finals. This trade, regardless of what happened, the rest of this season is as huge a risk as Nico Harris and The Mavericks GM and that franchise could take. And, and this is a very unfortunate reminder that the risk isn't just giving up potentially one of the best players of all time. I think that's a fairly significant development. I'm sorry, Bomb Tims.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean I, I certainly agree with you when you're talking about Nico Harrison saying there's a three or four year Runway on this trade and AD, you know, gets hurt halfway through the first game, could be out a month, could miss up 12 games, will not be el latest guy who's not eligible for all NBA all but certainly as a result of this and you know, the Mavs are sitting one game ahead of Golden State, Phoenix and Sacramento. Sacramento who they play Monday, Golden State who they play Wednesday for the final spots in the play in situation in the Western Conference. I mean, there's a very real possibility that by the time Anthony Davis comes back, the Dallas Mavericks are not in playing situation in the Western Conference and they could be looking at a repeat of the situation they were in two years ago when they're sitting on the outside looking in and looking at being in the lottery rather than making a playoff run. When you just traded for a guy who's six or seven years older than the guy you just traded and you talked about his durability issues, it's pretty, it's pretty concerning.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, and one slight difference from the situation two years ago. And look, we got to let this season play out, but Lively is going to be out for most, if not all the rest of the regular season. We'll see when AD is able to return, but it's not going to be for at least a little while. But hypothetically speaking, if that situation plays out the way you just said, they miss the plan, which is within the realm of possibility in an extraordinarily competitive west, they go into the lottery. The biggest difference between that situation and the one two years ago is two years ago the concern was oh bleep. If we don't get this thing turned around, Luca might have good reason to want out. Whereas now it's like oh bleep. Luca was happy to stay and we couldn't wait to get rid of them. And now look what happened.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's a long leap to think that they're going to be out of the plan.

[Tim Bontemps]

Brian. They're one game out of, they're one game ahead of 11th. The guy misses a month, he's going to miss half of the remaining schedule.

[Bam Adebayo]

And, and listen, like they also, they're right back in the situation. That they were in before in terms of they don't have Luca and they don't have the guy who. Different position, but the star that they brought in instead of Luca. And this is a team that was really, really struggling, you know, since Christmas. I mean, it's crazy. It seems so long ago now. They'd won 14 of 17 going into Christmas. Luka got hurt and look, there's been a lot of other stuff that's happened since then. Kyrie certainly has missed some time, but you're putting a ton on his plate. Is like the only real ball handler that you are excited about having the ball in his hands. But I just, I, I'm dumbfounded that you think this is a ho hum type of situation.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, it's not ho hum. It's just. It's a bad break. What else is there to say?

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, what's there to say is that they, this guy, they just traded for this guy, claiming that their window was now and that the, the prior guy was too hurt.

[Brian Windhorst]

76 games last year, he had missed like only 3 games this year. Like, he's in great shape.

[Bam Adebayo]

I mean, he had an abdominal injury when the trade was made days before the deadline too.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, last year also was the, the first year in many years that Anthony Davis was actually healthy enough to play 76 games. I mean, no, it's the first time.

[Bam Adebayo]

He'S ever played 76 games.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, Anthony Davis's entire career has been defined by him being a guy who is, you know, in addition to being a great player, someone who is regularly missing chunks of time and leaving games because of injuries.

[Bam Adebayo]

And people are going to hear you say this in a few minutes, but earlier on you basically said, hey, this was unfortunately, and you know, for, for better and worse, it was the whole Anthony Davis experience in his, in his Mavericks debut because he was absolutely dominant. And then unfortunately it ended early due to injury. But them, I mean, they're in eighth now, but it's only like Bon Tim said, they're only one loss ahead of nine, 10 and 11. And this is a team that was 19 and 10 going into Christmas.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, nine and 15 cents.

[Bam Adebayo]

It's. And, and lively's out. Like two of, I would say two of their three most important players are going to.

[Brian Windhorst]

So two of their most important players out. So if they lose, like, it's not, it's like it's most teams.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is a baffling. Is this a, Is this a situation where you are just.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're beating them over the head because a player got Hurt. Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hold on, hold on. They traded for a player in Anthony, Dave.

[Brian Windhorst]

But they could have traded for a player who'd never been hurt in his life, and he could have.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, no, no, no. Brian, Brian, I understand.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's what I think is going on. The world has decided that the Mavericks are stupid. And now that Anthony Davis gets hurt, they're just hopping on top of him, beating them all in the head that they're in.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're stupid, Brian. He got hurt.

[Brian Windhorst]

Happens. It happens.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dallas Mavericks made one of the most staggering trades in the history of the NBA, and their justification for making the trade was that it made them better today and that they were going to be a team that had a better chance of winning today. Right now, trading for Anthony Davis, who was hurt at the time and who has a history of being hurt. And in the first game he played, he had an unbelievable half and now could miss a month. That's what happened.

[Bam Adebayo]

I appreciate your stance, Wendy, because I've been accused a lot recently of being Nico Harrison's mouthpiece, which, by the way, for the last few years, my critical coverage of Doncic raised the ire of Nico Harrison as much as anybody, I can assure you. But so I appreciate you stepping up and trying to take that title that I certainly do not want.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I'm not. I'm not. I'm just saying it's bad. Lucky Davis got hurt. Bad luck.

[Tim Bontemps]

No one is saying it's not bad luck. But you're also acting like it's no big deal that this happened.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, and again, this is a big deal. But, like, you know, oh, my gosh, there's. So that was stupid. Is it not going to Mavericks, like, is if okay?

[Tim Bontemps]

Are the Mavericks not going to be obliterated if they miss the play in?

[Brian Windhorst]

Of course they will be okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Is Nico Harrison potentially about every job if they miss the play in?

[Bam Adebayo]

Wendy, this is not just any old.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you go to the lottery and you see the 14 teams at the lottery, there's a couple of teams there that are tanking, that knew they were going to be bad. But a lot of times six or seven of those teams had just crap injury luck for the season. And sometimes the difference between being in the finals and being in the lottery.

[Tim Bontemps]

And if the Dallas Mavericks hadn't traded Luka Doncic and they were sitting there and Luka Doncic missed a bunch of time with injuries, maybe Luka will pull.

[Brian Windhorst]

His calf again in two weeks, and then you will say, well, those Lakers should have known, like, come on, guys.

[Tim Bontemps]

If Brian if the Dallas Mavericks had been sitting there with Luka Doncic having missed a bunch of time with injuries and Kyrie Irving missing time with back injuries, and they missed the play in, we would have said, hey, Dallas had an awesome team. They had bad luck. They missed the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, okay, so Luca's injury is bad luck. 80s injury is stupid. Got it. Let me write that down. Okay, I got it now. I got it. Got it. No, you're acting like this.

[Bam Adebayo]

Any old trade. Any old trade. There was a protest with thousands.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay? Obviously, it's a big trade.

[Bam Adebayo]

Compare Nixon has received death threats. And by the way, let me just double down on that reporting because I've been ripped because the Dallas Police Department's told some wannabe journalists that, oh, we haven't had any. There's no known threats to us folks. The Mavericks have security. That's literally been at the highest level of American law enforcement. They have. They. The threats did not raise themselves to where they felt like they needed to be reported to police. But I guarantee you, and I've heard from multiple sources that he's received death threats, by the way, I've received a couple death threats. I didn't report them to the police, but this is how pissed off people are about this trade. And that's your reaction, is bad luck?

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, the circumstances, an odd position.

[Brian Windhorst]

What is the reaction supposed to be? The reaction is supposed to be what? Dallas, the Mavericks are stupid? That's. That's what you. That's what you want me to say? No.

[Bam Adebayo]

One is never said stupid.

[Brian Windhorst]

But that's what you're saying. No, that's what you guys are saying. You're saying they're stupid.

[Bam Adebayo]

Okay, don't put words in my mouth here, because I'm the one who's got to live on the ground here, first of all. Now, I will say the logic behind the deal was extraordinarily risky and questionable. You can absolutely say those things.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Bam Adebayo]

It's not a trade that I would have made.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think it's risky because Luka could win multiple MVPs and multiple championships. That's why it's risky.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, but again, part of the rationale for the trade was that they got rid of a guy that they couldn't rely on, and they traded him for a guy who has a history of getting hurt, and he got hurt in the first game he played in. Doesn't mean. Doesn't mean it's not bad luck. It doesn't mean that they should be pilloried, that he got hurt or that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anthony Davis, they're getting pilloried already. I've already seen it. I've already been watching Hillary for the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Trade for a week. That's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I want to pillory them for the other thing.

[Bam Adebayo]

This is a trade. You traded a guy who. And we'll see. Maybe they end up being right about Luka breaking down, but you have the chance to have a generational player for the next decade or so. And they said, nope, we don't trust him. We can't rely on him. We want him. We want Anthony Davis, who is an amazing player. But by doing that, by Nico.

[Brian Windhorst]

And if Anthony Davis has six groin injuries in the next three years and you get to fair assessment, but by.

[Bam Adebayo]

Nico Harrison's own words, the timeline is now three to four years. So they. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So the next month he's going to be out.

[Bam Adebayo]

The only way this trade can ultimately really be justified is if the Mavericks win a title in that three to four year time frame. And so this, it is a massive, massive, massive dent.

[Brian Windhorst]

But that is. That was true before he pulled his brain. All that was true before he pulled this.

[Tim Bontemps]

But they also. But this is this. But again, I want to refer back to 5 minutes ago when you said it's a stretch that the miss the play in. It's not a stretch.

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't say it was a stretch. I said you did.

[Tim Bontemps]

You literally said. You literally said it's a say. They're going to miss more than a stretch, Elite.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I'm saying you've already decided that they're missed. They might miss the playoffs. You've already decided the reason it's a.

[Tim Bontemps]

Relevant injury is because the best player on the team, which he is, is now out for half the remaining schedule and they're one game out of 11.

[Brian Windhorst]

And if anybody in between six and 10 would have that happen.

[Tim Bontemps]

But it's not anybody. That's not anybody. I understand. I'm sorry you had to work again, but this is a ridiculous. It's a ridiculous position to take, Bella. Ridiculous position.

[Bam Adebayo]

Fellas, I think on this one we can just agree to disagree and let folks get to the rest of the podcast.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Obvious. Okay. When it comes to groin injuries, just like any other strain, soft tissue injury, there's grades one, two, and three. This very much seems like it's not a grade one, because a grade one injury is typically a week or two day to day, which is what it sounded like after the game. Yeah, very clearly. This is a Grade two at least. And they have to hope it's a Two because if it's a three we got, you got real big problems. But hopefully it's not a three. I think that would have been more apparent. But if it's a grade two sprain, that's a three to five to six week injury depending on various people.

[Bam Adebayo]

So I, I believe we will know more on Monday about the severity and about the potential treatment options which knock on wood that it's rest well and.

[Tim Bontemps]

It also just puts the Mavs in an even tighter spot when it comes to Kyrie Irving, who's playing with this back injury and remains the only ball handler of real consequence on the roster.

[Brian Windhorst]

So you know, I would say that if I were the Lakers that would make sure that that calf is in good shape. No kidding for Luca, that's what I would say.

[Tim Bontemps]

No kidding.

[Brian Windhorst]

But so hopefully it is only a grade 2 sprain strain. Also, the Mavericks do get a small break and that the All Star break with a week off is coming up, which now AD is not going to be able to play in the All Star game so they have to be a replacement.

[Bam Adebayo]

And hey, there was one sliver of good news on the evening injury report that the Mavericks put out and that's PJ Washington is questionable for the Kings on Monday when he had to exit due to a sprained ankle Saturday afternoon.

[Brian Windhorst]

So the only, only good thing I guess for the Mavericks is that they do have three starter quality centers on their roster. So they are now down two of them.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean it's honestly better for him to miss Anthony Davis for a while than Kyrie if you have to pick one of them because there's just really no replacement for Kyrie. But it's still not great.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, that's true.

[Tim Bontemps]

And that like I said to me the biggest impact of this like yeah, obviously the longer term issues of this are, are apparent to me. It's just the more relevant thing is, you know, Sacramento I think arguably got better at the deadline even though they traded Dear and Fox Golden State added Jimmy Butler. Those teams are sitting right behind them. Phoenix, we'll see if they can ever get their act together. But you know, I'm not sure about that either.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is a lot of games due to injury. Well, if he, if he gets hurt, are you going to slap the Warriors?

[Tim Bontemps]

They didn't, they didn't mortgage future on getting Jimmy.

[Bam Adebayo]

But the Mavericks, we are assessing a situation and a historically unprecedented trade and all the various risks involved.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just, it just, it just puts the, it puts a spotlight on the fact that they're 9 and 15 since Christmas Day.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's a fair thing to say.

[Tim Bontemps]

The whole time that they've been out with, without Luca, and you know, that's not a percentage going forward that's going to be good enough to make the playoffs. And if they're even.500 the rest of the way, they're probably not good enough to make the playoffs. So we'll see what happens over the next few weeks. But by the way, they play Sacramento Monday and they play Golden State Wednesday. Those were already huge games. They're even more so now that they've got those games at home without Anthony Davis.

[Brian Windhorst]

I would just say that the parameters of the risk profile of what the Mavericks did were the same on Saturday as they are on Sunday. I mean, yes, I would agree that the star player gets an injury is the breaks of the game and the ebb and flow of the NBA season.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, again, we agree on that. The only thing I would say is that it is a bit ironic that part of the justification of the trade was because you couldn't rely on.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will accept. I will accept irony. Now we see we've come together. I will accept what you said about their record after Luca got hurt. I will accept irony. I will accept everything. I will not accept that it's some sort of catastrophe because it's the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's a catastrophe if they miss the playoffs.

[Brian Windhorst]

If a star player gets hurt, you miss the playoffs, it's a catastrophe if.

[Tim Bontemps]

You missed the playoffs when you made a win. Now trade Windy.

[Bam Adebayo]

Wendy.

[Brian Windhorst]

It happens.

[Bam Adebayo]

Wendy, come on down and visit me and let's just kind of. I need you to. I guess from Nebraska, you can't feel the heat that's in Texas right now because, brother, it's. It's hot.

[Tim Bontemps]

If the Dallas Mavericks missed the playoffs, that's. That's going to be a catastrophe. You could say whatever else you want.

[Bam Adebayo]

I mean, oh, my, oh, my.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's got nothing to do with calling anybody idiots or pillars.

[Brian Windhorst]

If they missed the play, if Anthony Davis is out, you know, for a long period of time and they missed the playoffs because of that, that's a bad break. If they came back and Luca averages 37, 12 and 9 and the Lakers are in the Western Conference finals and the Mavericks are home, that's a catastrophe.

[Bam Adebayo]

So I would say, frankly, either or. I mean, if we're being real.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. All right. Well, it's hard.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's hard to make a win. Now trade. Say you have a three to four year window and have one of those years be you missed the playoffs. That's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I know. But that could happen to anybody.

[Bam Adebayo]

I. I am.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not anybody. It's a team that's literally said that's their window.

[Bam Adebayo]

I'm glad we're on the same page about irony. Let's take that as a All right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Here comes the rest of the podcast of the pod. Here comes the rest of the podcast.

[Bam Adebayo]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't just stand on business. I live it 247 because you don't become a young entrepreneur by staying stagnant. Whether I'm chasing deals, networking, or taking calls from behind the wheel of my Toyota Crown, I'm always in motion. You may think launching a successful startup is enough to be satisfied, but me? I'm just getting started. It's a new day at Toyota led by a new generation of drivers, and we want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive Toyota. Let's go places Introducing Skims Men's Where Comfort meets Style A new era in men's essentials has arrived. Designed to fit your life, your body, your day. From the moment you slip on their pieces, you'll feel the difference. Made with premium fabrics that stretch, breathe and move with you. Skims Men's is about more than just clothing. It's about confidence and comfort, looking good and feeling good no matter what you're doing. Whether you're working out, relaxing at home or heading out, their collection has you covered. Their pieces are designed to adapt to your lifestyle. Soft, durable and with a fit that feels tailor made, Skims Men's is about freedom. Freedom to move, to live, to be yourself. With a range of styles, from everyday basics to more elevated pieces, you'll find everything you need to look and feel your best. Skims Men's isn't just about looking good. It's about feeling good all day, every day. Elevated essentials that work with your body, not against it. Join the movement. Discover the new standard in men's clothing shop Skims men'[e-mail] and skim stores, let them know we sent you. After you place your order, select Podcast in the survey and select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. If you're looking for that perfect gift for your Valentine or for yourself, Skims just launched their best Valentine shop ever, available in sizes for women, men, kids and even pets. Welcome to Nadia island. Next on Metro's Nadia Yada island podcast, I almost fainted when the four new bombshells arrived.

[Bam Adebayo]

Four free Samsung Galaxy A16.

[Brian Windhorst]

5G phones at Metro no way and finding out the fourth line is free. Things got heated.

[Bam Adebayo]

That's wild.

[Brian Windhorst]

Join Metro and get four free Samsung.

[Bam Adebayo]

5G phones only at Metro plus tax.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bring four numbers and an ID and sign up for any Metro Flex plan not available currently at T Mobile or been with Metro in the past 180 days. At the. The rally. Protest, I guess the protest. The protest of the Luca tray that you were at.

[Bam Adebayo]

I was not at the protest. I can assure you of that. I was getting videos from the protest.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, okay. That. That makes me feel. I was wondering if you were getting those videos.

[Bam Adebayo]

No, no, I got videos and I was getting kind of play by play update. Especially every time that my name was mentioned in derisive chance.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, see, that's interesting because I thought this is good information because I saw these videos and I thought they were chanting at you because you were standing there. They were just chanting at you. You weren't even there.

[Bam Adebayo]

Correct. I had a couple spies there. A couple of. Of dads in the neighborhood brought their sons. I think they were. They were there to complain, including.

[Brian Windhorst]

Were your sons there protesting you?

[Bam Adebayo]

Absolutely no. Absolutely not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wouldn't that be amazing? Talk about getting back at your old man. I can't directly relate to this McMahon. I will say that when LeBron went to Miami and then ESPN announced in a press release I was going to Miami, which I was happy to go to espn. I wasn't so happy about the press release and I had to live in Cleveland for another week. It was not an ideal time, including when I went to a game and people were shooting spitballs at me, but they. They never chanted at me. I have been jeered in mass by Dallas fans before, but not in a rally. And when I was in Miami, when I started saying that I didn't think LeBron was going to stay, I. I had some uncomfortable times there, but never quite anything like this. So.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, listen, it's like obviously you've been through that. It's not my first rodeo with. With fans being mad at me. I understand. And I understand that, you know, sometimes the. The facts, the truth. Factual reporting is not always flattering. It's not always comfortable. It's not always what you want to hear. And messengers have been being blamed since the medieval times. You know, when they're chanting, don't buy the book. I definitely appreciate the free the Wonder Boy, by the way, or the Wonder Boy, which is.

[Brian Windhorst]

There it is. Oh, it's. There it is right behind you. Beautiful.

[Bam Adebayo]

It's the first I've noticed it available for pre order. I gotta crank out that last chapter by Friday, though. And.

[Tim Bontemps]

About that, Kayvon was asking where our copy is yesterday. She's like, where's, where's the book? I said, the book's not out yet.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I want to wait soon enough.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, gotta get the chapter.

[Bam Adebayo]

But, and, and listen, obviously there was a. I was a bit player in the protest. Certainly the vast majority of the Venom was directed first and foremost at Nico Harrison. I mean, fire Nico was, I would say, the predominant theme of this protest. And talk about a surreal scene. This protest was being held in Victory Plaza. The estimates that I got was about a thousand people. So that's a pretty large number of people filling this plaza right outside the arena. The plaza where this 24 foot statue of Dirk Nowitzki is, is erected is overlooking this thing, right? Dirt fading away. The inscription on Dirk statue says, loyalty never fades away. 21 letters representing 21 seasons of unflinching loyalty to the city of Dallas and loyalty from the Mavericks franchise back to Dirk. And I don't think anybody thought there was going to be 21 years of Luca, but you Mavericks fans certainly believed and hoped with every bit of their hearts that there would be a good 15 or so and less than 7 is what it ended up being. And, you know, there was signs like loyalty faded away was one of the signs, you know, just again, a whole lot of sell the team signs. And, you know, so the, the Adelson family and, and Patrick Demont, who married into the Adelson family and is now the governor of the Dallas Mavericks. He, I guess, you know, obviously was getting updates on these protests, and I'm sure he's seen some of the footage and some of the videos, a ton of media attention on these things. And he decided to talk to a pal of the pod, Brad Townsend. And I would say essentially what Patrick Dumont did today was maybe the fire might be dying down just a bit. I mean, Anthony Davis had an amazing debut right up until unfortunate and ended early. Max Christie's looked amazing. They had a big win over the Houston Rockets. You know, they were taking up signs and stuff. I guess the security up at, you know, the entrances was pretty strict, but it was a very supportive atmosphere inside the arena.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, I was not surprised. I was kind of surprised by that. I thought that it might be a negative atmosphere. It turns out the negativity was mostly outside.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, and again, I'm not up at the exits, but fans that I've heard from did say, hey, if you had a Fire Nico sign, Or T shirts or any of that kind of stuff. The security was being a little bit, oh, un American, I don't know, whatever, whatever you want to say, whatever, however you want to call that. But listen, like, AD Comes in and are you kidding me? Like, could you ask for again? Unfortunately, until he exited late in the third quarter with what they don't think will be a, you know, like a major injury, might miss some a little bit of time, but talk about introducing yourself to Dallas and basically let you know, as he said, a friendly reminder of who Anthony Davis is. This dude had one of the most dominant halves that I've seen in a while. And the only NBA player or maverick who's had more dominant half in recent memory has been Luke on a few occasions. You know, maybe, maybe a Kyrie like in, in the opener of the Western Conference finals. But he comes out in the first four plus minutes, he's, he's getting, he's swatting shots, grabbing rebounds. He has four buckets. The fourth bucket, he misses a contested layup, grabs that thing, dunks it with two hands and you know, emo doka calls timeout, chest bumps a couple teammates. He's waving his hands, looking at the stands, waving his hands. The crowd is going nuts. He points at the, at the court, you know, shouts, I'm here. I mean, it was like, whoa. Dude had like 24, 13, 5 and 3.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ten times more fiery than he was when LeBron broke the Kareem record.

[Bam Adebayo]

Hey, true, but first half, I think it was 24, 13, 5 and 3 blocks. Like it was. So you've got that Max Christie and Max Christie is so far like down the list of things.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he's like the seventh man, maybe fifth man.

[Bam Adebayo]

No, I'm talking about in this trade. Like who else?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

[Bam Adebayo]

But like 21 year old kid turns 22 Monday and he's played three games. He's playing great. Had 23 points off the.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, it was Klay Thompson's birthday on Saturday. Was there any festivities for that?

[Bam Adebayo]

I didn't even know that.

[Brian Windhorst]

There you go. Well, poor Clay. Totally.

[Bam Adebayo]

There's a few other things going on, but Max Christie, you know, plays amazing, hits the dagger 3. You've got it like, oh, you got through the protest. You know, you. It's been a really chaotic, unprecedentedly bizarre type of week. You get a little bit of good feeling. Like, what a, what an intro to the Dallas audience for AD For Max Christie. And then Patrick Dumont comes out and gives Brad Townsend of the Dallas Morning News, an extended interview.

[Brian Windhorst]

And listen, let me just say real quick, before you read these quotes, you've been around Patrick more than I have. I've spent time with him on a couple of occasions. He has always come off as mild mannered to me.

[Tim Bontemps]

Reasonable for me.

[Brian Windhorst]

Reasonable, mild mannered, Chill, you know, you know, I, I've, over the years, I've gotten to spend time with owners on, in various settings. And sometimes you, you can figure out right away how competitive somebody is or aloof somebody is. I mean, you spend 10 minutes with Steve Ballmer, you will feel his energy, you will feel the way he operates. You know, you spend 10 minutes with Mark Cuban, you know, which we've all spent hours with Mark Cuban. But, you know, you will feel his personality. You know, you spend minutes with Tony Ressler, the Atlanta Hawks, for example, there's no way you walk away from, from 10 minutes, Tony Wrestler, and not understand how competitive this guy is and the way he looks at the world. You spend 10 minutes with Patrick Dumont, you get, you know, a very pleasant, thoughtful, mild mannered guy. So I just wanted to set that before these quotes because I've never heard anything like this out of him. Go ahead.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, And I'm going to focus on, on one quote in particular now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I don't actually even like this quote. I don't, like, I'm gonna let you go in your route because this is your team. But I don't, I don't, I don't even care about this quote. But go ahead.

[Bam Adebayo]

But no, the thing he had to say, because there's this ridiculous conspiracy theory. They've been going, oh, this is. Oh, okay, the franchise. So they could, you know, move it to Vegas, which again, was never going to happen. The NBA was never going to allow that it was a conspiracy theory because people could not understand why they traded Luca. Even though I spelled out within 30 minutes of the trade, the reasoning they gave up on him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Niko, on the record, within 30 minutes of the trade.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, that was Defense wins championships. But it was, it was the conditioning concerns. It was the belief that he was going to break down. It was the fact they didn't bel. They didn't believe in him. They didn't want to build a culture around him. And your superstar is always going to be the most impactful thing in the culture of the franchise. So he had to say that part. Then he had to say, believed in Nico. If I was advising him from a PR perspective, I would have said into there. He talked a whole lot more. And this One is just an. I mean, if you. If you don't believe me about the conditioning stuff and, and, you know, all that being a concern, listen to this. If you look at the greats in the league, the people you and I grew up with, Jordan Bird, Kobe, Shaq, they worked really hard every day with a singular focus to win. And if you don't have that, it doesn't work. And if you don't have that, you shouldn't be part of the Dallas Mavericks. That's who we want. I'm unwavering on this. The entire organization knows this. This is how I operate outside of basketball. This is the only way to be competitive and win. If you want to take a vacation, don't do it with us. Whoa. So basically they said Luke is chilling, eating, you know, having a good old time, getting, you know, large and thinking he's in charge. And. No, no, no. We're shipping them off to la. But let me just break down how insane of a quote this is. First of all, the greats who grew up, okay, Larry Bird was a legendary beer drinker whose body broke down after a dozen years in the NBA. An all time great, but like, Larry Bird was not the epitome of discipline.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he had a bad back, okay?

[Bam Adebayo]

I know a legendary beer drinker when I see one, trust me. Larry Bird throw some brewskis down. Are you kidding me? What are we talking about? Like, his post game routine involved multiple cervases, although he probably he domestic crap, but still.

[Brian Windhorst]

Again, okay, I don't know.

[Bam Adebayo]

We'll get on. Let me go a little bit.

[Brian Windhorst]

But you. But he's not talking about Larry Bird's body fat. He's talking about his.

[Bam Adebayo]

His competitiveness really hard, every day with a singular focus to win.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Larry Bird did work very hard. All right, go ahead.

[Bam Adebayo]

Luca works hard on his game, but you're talking about the preparation, talking about the condition. These are the reasons that the Mavericks gave up.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. That was 40 years ago, buddy. Shaq, I know famously played his way.

[Bam Adebayo]

Into shape every year, would need to shed weight every single training.

[James Harden]

McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

McMahon. I would just. I would put. I would respectfully say, I understand where you're coming from, but I think the. The point of. The point I think we should be making is that this was not just a Nico Harrison decision. Right. Nico Harrison can either either Patrick Dumont agreed with this separately or Nico Harrison. Over time talking to Patrick Dumont, they came to a consensus that organizationally, the Mavericks at the highest level did not believe in Luka Doncic as a player. That they were going to be building around for the rest of this decade.

[Bam Adebayo]

And I will also just say that those two were not alone in that belief. It certainly is not a consensus throughout the organization. That much I can absolutely promise you. There are people with the mavericks who are just like, what have we done? But these, it was not just Nico and Patrick Dumont. That I can promise you.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, let me, let me read a few more quotes.

[Bam Adebayo]

One more thing real quick about this one. If you're going to go down a list of all time greats in the context of work ethic, and it's intended for this Dallas audience that is outraged, maybe that guy who has that statue in Victory Plaza possibly should have been mentioned along those names. That's all right.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I'm going to give him a pass. I'm going to give him a pass on listing the names. He made the point. Here's some other quotes from this interview. And like, by the way, owners don't give these, Owners don't give these interviews every day, especially Patrick Dumont. This is not, you know, the, the.

[Bam Adebayo]

The, the old owner did. But yes, this is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the old owner used to do it before every game on the Stairmaster, which was truly an amazing time.

[Bam Adebayo]

I don't think we'll get that from Dumont anytime soon.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he was also, you know, competing, you know, Mark Cuban was competing with Jerry Jones, who gives six interviews a week.

[Bam Adebayo]

There was a, a guy who actually was sitting like two rows behind Cuban on the baseline by the MAS bench yesterday. And I, I put this on my Instagram. But these guys, they have, they did get some signs in, and one of the signs was they had a picture of Jerry Photoshopped wearing a Maverick shirt on the phone.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, quote, in my mind, the way teams win is by focus, by having the right character, by having the right culture, and by having the right dedication to work as hard as possible. And if you're not doing that, you're going to lose. Which is basically saying that Luca wasn't doing that.

[Bam Adebayo]

They're running the bus over Luca, who I will remind you, and all the conditioning stuff is 100% legitimate concerns. No. Is it reasoning to trade them at 25? I wouldn't have done it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can I just say, because I do these interviews all over the country, I think the conditioning, it makes it. The premise that I think a lot of people across the country, especially casuals, think is that they traded Luca because he's fat. And they're like, he doesn't look fat to me. The conditioning was one of the reasons, it was not the only reason.

[Bam Adebayo]

Not the only reason. It was conditioning, slash culture. And they go hand in hand. It was a belief his body was going to break down and that they would never have the kind of culture they want with him as the face of the franchise. To say it's the only way you can win when you are months removed from this guy leading you to the finals and being the first player in NBA history to lead an entire postseason in points, rebounds, assists and steals. You cannot just say it's the only way to win when the guy got you to the finals months ago.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I've said it all along. In Nico we trust. You have to respect his track record, you have to respect his intellect, you have to respect his relationships and his judgment and his point of view and the way he communicates. We had a tremendous run to the finals last year, but before that year's trade deadline, our trajectory was not a playoff bound trade team. Those trade moves by Nico acquired the right teammates to allow us to achieve our potential and get to the NBA finals. He is 1000% standing behind Nico. He is cementing himself, as Bontemp said, is in lockstep. That, you know. And he's. And he's attributing last year's success not so much to Luca, but to the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Which, by the way, they traded for these role players that fit around Luka Doncic and who. Luka Doncic was diming up for three pointers against the Oklahoma City Thunder when the Mavericks won that series by shooting wildly over their expected percentage in part because Luka Doncic was setting guys up for wide open shots.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, and. And lob threats. And listen.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, and lob threats. It's the rim with Daniel Gaffer.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yes, you do have to give Nico full credit for the moves that he made last year, which on this pod we were critical of, but we were.

[Brian Windhorst]

All definitely critical of. Of Kyrie. Definitely critical of Kyrie.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, of Kyrie. And honestly, we. We sat here and. And again, the reaction, yeah, I didn't.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like any of those trades. I was. I was incorrect on that.

[Bam Adebayo]

The reaction around the league was that they overpaid for a couple of role players last year who weren't going to raise a ceiling high enough to justify it. And then they went to the final. So, yes, you have to give Nico credit. And by the way, the Mavericks, if healthy, are going to be a damn good team. Anthony, like this year, next year, the year after Anthony Davis did remind everybody like he's this afterthought in this trade, he's a freaking top 75 all time player in his prime, a 10 time all star, you know, multiple all NBAs, all defense. Anthony Davis is an absolute monster and you know he, he's very understanding of what he's kind of walking into. He gets the heartbreak, he gets what Luca meant to the city of Dallas, but he's also a very proud guy and he's like, you know what, I can play too. And as he said, I'm going to give the city of Dallas life back. And boy, in that first half yesterday, he show enough did that. We'll see if it can be, if it's something that can be sustained, but they, the Mavericks can make a deep playoff run. They're going to be an awesome defensive team, especially once Lively gets back. They're huge, they're athletic. Now we'll see.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, if healthy is also a very, very massive question because they have one guard that I would like to handle the ball in the playoffs and that's Kyrie irving who's approaching 33 years old and has a bulging disc in his back. And by the way, we got the entire Anthony Davis experience in this debut where he was unbelievable in the first quarter. Great first half, started to fade in the third quarter, went down a non contact injury where we thought he might miss two months and then said after the game it wasn't a big deal and that he's going to be fine. So this was, that was the entire arc of the AD experience in one 48 minute game for Mavs fans.

[Bam Adebayo]

Now that he's arrived there, getting back to the Demont stuff, he absolutely should be like, if you, if you give Nico the clearance to make this move, you absolutely better stand on it and better stand behind it. And Nico's track record, all in all, there's been. He's on year four. There's been a conference finals run, there's been a finals run. Those two years sandwiched a bizarre blockbuster trade into a tank season. And now we'll see how this year goes. But again, it's just that there's so much shock here and part of it is just the crazy shift from making all these moves to surround Luca with a supporting cast that gives him a chance to contend. And this is a franchise that's operated for the last few years. We've got to build a contender around Luca or he might want to leave to this shift and sudden, I don't know, it was. Yeah, I think sudden is the right word. Shift to. We can't keep building around him. We've got to figure out another path. We've got to dump this guy. And when I say dump them, they honed in on one guy that they wanted and that was Anthony Davis and they got him. And again, it's a three to four year time frame. I'm quoting Nico Harrison on that. Problem is all the work you've done to build this finals caliber supporting Casper on Luca, you've given up your, your draft, you know, control of your draft in the first round in 27, 28, 29 and 30. If it's three to four years, you do the math and you're like, oh, so Oklahoma City 28 swap. Houston now has that 29 first round pick via Brooklyn. San Antonio 2030 swap. Your neighbors in the Western Conference respect the team that you've put together right now and are really excited about the future of the Dallas Mavericks benefiting them.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, to be continued. Hang in there, McMahon.

[Bam Adebayo]

Read all about it in the wonder boy.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Pre order now. Up next, let's check out today's magic moment brought to you by State Farm. All right. We had some other news on Saturday specifically that in the evening, I guess it was the Lakers announced that they had rescinded the trade for Mark Williams three days after making agreeing to it. They didn't say why, but the only reasonable way that was could happen is they said the Hornets didn't.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, let's just put it this way. To satisfy the conditions of the trade, there were two players involved that needed to pass a physical. One was Dalton connect and one was Mark Williams. And the Lakers announced that the trade was being rescinded. So that should tell you what happened.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So. And by the way, you know, it's a relatively early in the ownership process for Gabe Plot. Gabe Plotkin and Rick Schnall. They've owned the team for a couple of years now, but they haven't been out there. Unlike guys like Matt Ishpie and Patrick Dumont who made huge franchise altering moves within the first 18 months or in case of Matt Ishby of the suns the first 18 minutes being owner, the Hornets ownership has taken a much more slow roll. And Jeff Peterson, their gm, I guess team president, you know, he is not, you know, super out there. You know, we're still learning about who they are as people, but we certainly learned a lot by the statement that the Hornets put out after. Let me read it announced. I've got it right here.

[Bam Adebayo]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

We are excited to welcome Mark back to our Hornets organization after the other team aggressively pursued. Mark, we made.

[Tim Bontemps]

You could just stop there. They called the Lakers the other team.

[Brian Windhorst]

In the statement, the Lakers are not mentioned.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was incredible.

[Brian Windhorst]

The other team.

[Bam Adebayo]

Do you think there's going to be a lot of business done between the, the Lakers and the, and the Hornets? I don't think, I don't think there will be meetings at fancy coffee houses between the Lakers and the Hornets.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, listen there, there was another interesting quote. Speaking of statements and quotes, Rob Polinka gave a very long quote Thursday about Mark Williams health. And, and look, we talked about it the other day on the podcast. Mark Williams is a talented seven footer who has played in 40% of the games he's been eligible to play and missed a calendar year with a back issue. Right. So this, this is an interesting quote that he gave the other day in a scrum or Dave McBennamin had in his story. Quote. We fully vetted his health stuff led by Dr. Chris Jones at UCLA Health and Dr. Leroy Sims on our team and he's had no surgeries, Palinka said. So these are just parts of he's still growing into his body. We vetted the injuries he's had and we're not concerned about those. We'll have a chance to have a physical and continue to do a deep dive and make sure that what we've talked about and seen in the electronic medical records is good. So we'll still have that step in the process of doing a full physical before the trade becomes official. Now, he did give the caveat that they're going to do a full physical. However, he went out of his way to say we feel good about where this guy is at physically and then two days later they back out of the trade. It's just an interesting sequence of events.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, on two, two fronts here. One, it's a vitally important trade for the Lakers because it affects their, their ability to compete this year. He was their starting center and by rescinding the trade after the deadline, the chances of them somehow, I mean I never really think out with the Lakers. For all I know, Nikola Jokic will request a buyout and go sign there in two days. But the, the chances of them getting a frontline center now are very, very slim and so backing out of the trade. They know that they're potentially affecting this season significantly. Secondly, it was a very expensive trade for them trading away the, the 31 unprotected and the pick swap and Dalton connect which, you know, the, there's mixed reviews on him thus far. However, he is an asset, no doubt. And so had they gotten it wrong? AKA this guy comes in and has a series of injuries. It's potentially a, it's something you have to get right at least from. If you get, if you get it wrong on the player evaluation, you know that happens. But if you get it wrong because you take a risk on the health stuff and it blows up in your face, you really are going to have some questions. So I get why the Lakers were very cautious, but I also understand why they had to be cautious because of the stakes. But it was certainly a very, very significant development in the league.

[Bam Adebayo]

You know what though? Here's what the Lakers can, can do. They can look at Luke and say, man, we're going to get you a rim rolling big. Like, we're going to get you that lob threat. We're going to get you that guy. You know, we were really aggressive. We were going to make this happen. But we, you know, just the medicals are too bad we couldn't do this one. But hey, we hear you and we're, we're on it, buddy. Like we're working together that, you know, they can do that. They can look them in the eye and say, absolutely, it's a priority. And our actions back that up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like, well, we'll see if this trade ages. Like the Tyson Chandler trade to Oklahoma city back in 15 years ago or so. That was real. One of the real what ifs of the last generation of the NBA or if Tyson Chandler had wound up on that Duran Harden, Westbrook team, would have been a pretty devastating group to have him out there with Serge Baca and those other three guys.

[Bam Adebayo]

And that was in that trade nine correct?

[Tim Bontemps]

I believe so. That trade got rescinded because of a toe issue.

[Bam Adebayo]

Two years later, he was the final piece of the Mavericks championship.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. So maybe Mark Williams that went through okc. That's right. So maybe Mark Williams will develop into an elite two way center, rim run and center who's a great defensive player. Or perhaps he'll continue to be a guy that struggles on the defensive end and is not available a lot. I mean, there's a reason why I was pretty skeptical about the trade from the Lakers standpoint in the first place. Like, yeah, it's a guy who definitely has potential, but he was raw and it was a heck of a swing to say this was the guy that we're going to essentially make the centerpiece of our team around. Luka.it's going forward and be enough to convince Luca that, hey, this is a guy that you should feel confident about anchoring yourself with for a while. So I. It's certainly fascinating that they went the other way on the deal now. And Jackson Hayes starting for the Lakers at center for the rest of the year is going to be interesting to watch. Coupled with. We have to see what Luka decides to do as far as an extension goes this summer. And the Lakers have limited means to improve their roster. And it's going to be very interesting to see what the off season looks like for them in light of this decision.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, and the Tyson Chandler comp is a good one. And. And obviously there are some parallels there. Tyson Chandler was certainly a much more proven player at that point of his career.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, Tyson Chandler, no question. Chandler, just the history there. Tyson Chandler was playing for the Hornets. He got traded to the Thunder and the Thunder rescinded the trade because they found something, I believe, with Chandler's foot. If I'm not.

[Tim Bontemps]

Or this toe.

[Bam Adebayo]

Little stuff.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Chandler went on to play 10 more years, including a couple years later, he won a championship with the Mavericks. Am I right?

[Tim Bontemps]

We did just. We did just say all of this, actually.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Sorry. I was distracted, not paying any attention.

[Bam Adebayo]

Hey, when you sleep. Update.

[Tim Bontemps]

When he's literally, literally paying no attention. And I just went through all.

[Brian Windhorst]

I am. I am in moderate back pain right now due to a pulled muscle. I need one of those compression devices, famously. How many years ago was it? Four or five years ago.

[Bam Adebayo]

Hey, you know that hyper ice that Cassidy was pumping up when she was.

[Brian Windhorst]

I need.

[Bam Adebayo]

Oh, I got one, babe. Right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

My guy, Anthony Cass is the CEO. You know, a couple years ago, Caris levert got traded. I think it was in the hardened trade, wasn't it?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the physical that they did after that found cancerous tumor on his kidney, I think it was. And helped potentially save his life. So I know they're not messing around. By the way, the Lakers won. They beat the Pacers on Saturday without LeBron or Luka. And Austin Reaves had 45 points in that game. And how about this for the wiz of the quiz? Oh, this is an incredible stat from Austin Reaves on Saturday. So he became the sixth Lakers player in history to have a game with 45 points, seven rebounds and seven assists. These are the other five. Elgin Baylor.

[Bam Adebayo]

Hey, what the Wizard. The quiz is something we get.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's fine. Let him just. Let him just read it off. It's fine.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kobe Bryant, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Austin Reeves.

[Bam Adebayo]

We could have gotten Those you robbed me of looking smart.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, I. I have another wizard. A quiz involving the Lakers. Cause it was something I was looking up yesterday because I was thinking about it. I started covering the NBA with the 201213 season. The year that. The year that the Nets moved into Brooklyn. How many times since then have the Lakers finished? No, it's just that was the next year. How. How many times in that span have the Lakers finished in a top six spot in the Western Conference in that span since. Since the start of that season. Once is the correct answer. The year they won the title.

[Bam Adebayo]

That's the first time Wendy's ever gotten a Wizard of quiz.

[Brian Windhorst]

You might be right. It's only because of ESPN we're forced to lock into the Lakers whether you want to.

[Tim Bontemps]

It is just. It is just a remark.

[Bam Adebayo]

Hey, poor Wendy. He's. He's forced to cover LeBron James. That's never benefited him.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's never been a thing. It is just a remarkable. It is just a remarkable thing that for especially the last several years with LeBron James and Anthony Davis, the Lakers have finished above the play in spots in the west one time.

[Bam Adebayo]

You know what, you know how many times Lucas Mavericks have finished above sixth twice. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe it's once. I believe it's last year. No, no, I am wrong about it is twice. It was also the conference finals here.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, they went to the conference. Well, they're in eighth right now.

[Bam Adebayo]

I think the west is going to be a fascinating. It's like these last two months are going to be wild and are going to be fun in the Western Conference. I mean we've like the warriors just made this huge trade. Jimmy Butler look, I mean they're playing the Bulls, but Jimmy Butler looked awesome in his Golden State debut there as we speak. Wouldn't even be in the play in. They're tied with the Suns and. But on the. On the outside tied with the Suns and the Kings for that matter. Tom, you've got the. The Mavs at 8. The Clippers with choir right now playing team. Minnesota is starting to get things together 18 out of the last 10. Houston starting to sink. Lost six in a row and including yesterday. Lakers are getting together. Just made a massive trade. The Nuggets.

[Tim Bontemps]

Lakers, Lakers are 9 and 1 in their last 10 games. Are in fourth place in Western Conference standings.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're tied for third in the lost column, which is what I'm paying attention to. I mean it's, it's there for them. It's Just going to be. It's going to be hard. By the way, I don't know if anybody is paying attention to the Thunder. The thunder of won six of seven while everybody's having this.

[Bam Adebayo]

You know, they're 42 and nine and floating under the radar. How about that?

[Brian Windhorst]

And they just, they just got Chad Holmgren back.

[Bam Adebayo]

What a deadline acquisition that was.

[Brian Windhorst]

And on Saturday they play without him because the second night of a back to back and then Lou Dort and.

[Tim Bontemps]

I believe case in Wallace also did.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Correct. Wallace is out for the all Star weekend. They just had to replace him. The rookie sophomore game. And they went into Memphis last night who's been one of the hottest teams in the league and beat him by double digits. And they have just. Correct me If I'm wrong, McMahon. The Thunder have just owned the team that's now in second thanks to golden or Houston slide here where they've kind of had come back to the pack. Memphis has a pretty significant lead on him three or four games now. So right now it's Oklahoma City and Memphis one and two in this tightly packed west. One and two is sort of out by themselves.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, Memphis is a game and a half up on. On Denver.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Oh, and Denver. Yeah, that's right. Houston's all the way back.

[Bam Adebayo]

Denver's on the rise. Houston's falling. Okay, Houston. The Lakers are tied through three games behind the Grizzlies. Now they're all way behind okc obviously.

[Tim Bontemps]

Houston's lost six in a row and the Lakers have won five in a row.

[Brian Windhorst]

Haven't the Thunder just owned the Grizzlies?

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, I'll say this. Last night it was. It was the Thunder and those cheating refs that gave the Grizzlies 39 free throws in the Thunder 21.

[Brian Windhorst]

And somehow I will say this. Many people, many people are saying that the referees lean towards the Thunder. People always are talking about how the Thunder get their favorable call.

[Bam Adebayo]

I love it. Team Rant got kicked out of that game with a couple minutes left for the last straw was when he held. The fix is in. And The Grizzlies had an 18 free throw advantage. It was Ray Acosta and Drew Hill who covers the. The Grizzlies tweeted about this last night. Ray. Now he wasn't the crew chief, but Ray Acosta was the ref in Oklahoma City a couple of years ago. Well, you remember JA got thrown out for making some snide comment to a fan when old Ray was within earshot. It's funny because that Ray is well above six feet, but.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my gosh, no.

[Bam Adebayo]

But he quick trigger. He tossed jaw and that's when T came over and that fan felt bad. She was a jaw fan and so T's like FaceTiming with a fan with John the locker room during the, during the game. So Acosta was part of the refereeing crew, but he wasn't the crew chief. And the crew chief, was it Tiffany or Tybin?

[Brian Windhorst]

Old Josh, just Josh Tiffin was the.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, I. He's probably a shade shy of six feet, but he. When he heard the fixes in, and I'm sure he heard a lot, whole lot from T that game, he went and got security and say, you escort that fella right on out. Mike Miller teased or jaws agent. You know, former NBA star Mike Miller was sitting right next to T and appeared to get a chuckle out of the situation.

[Brian Windhorst]

From what I could tell by the way, the Thunder beat the trailblazers about 10 days ago. It's the only time the Trailblazers have lost in weeks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Until. Until yesterday.

[Brian Windhorst]

Until yesterday it had been. It had been the only time the Blazers had lost in weeks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Blazers are 8 and 2 in their last 10 games. Only a game and a half back. Actually only a half game back of the San Antonio spurs for 12.

[Bam Adebayo]

I'll tell you, old Scoot, man, like, no matter how ugly a rookie season is, you shouldn't give up on a number three overall pick. And Scoot is starting to put some things together there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, but that we also have to say it is absolutely bonkers that this Blazers team, I know they've gone on a nice winning streak lately and they've played well. It's bonkers. This team went through the trade deadline and didn't move anybody. It's just, it's crazy. It's crazy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Timberwolves on Saturday. No, no, Aunt. Right. Aunt didn't play in that game, I don't think.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct. He did not play.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah. And did not play.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sorry. No, it's just, it's just crazy that they, it's crazy. They went through the deadline, it didn't move any of these guys again. And they're sitting here with the same team again and have years now.

[Bam Adebayo]

They can't move Aiden.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I mean, sure, but they, I mean, Robert Williams. Yeah, they should have moved Robert Williams for whatever they could get.

[Bam Adebayo]

Tell you what, how good would he look at a Lakers uniform?

[Brian Windhorst]

Would have.

[Tim Bontemps]

Would have looked awfully good. You know, again, assuming it could play. I mean, he left Saturday's game with a knee injury. So we'll see how long he's out. But, like.

[Bam Adebayo]

And those Lakers physicals are very, very thorough.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Rob's had enough injuries that I'm sure they would have found stuff. But look, by the way, like, if.

[Bam Adebayo]

You want to flunk a guy in.

[Tim Bontemps]

A physical, of course in the NBA, you can find you can flunk anybody on a physical if you want.

[Brian Windhorst]

But.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I just. It's just crazy that Portland's sitting here with the exact same team again and with all these same guys here again. And it feels like they've been in stasis for three years now.

[Bam Adebayo]

Stasis, big word, but a fancy one. Jackson needed that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Having said that, I mean, regardless how you feel about that, we never, ever, ever talk about the Trailblazers. Let's. They did stand pat the deadline, but we should talk about how well they're playing and specifically defensively, they've been number one team in the D in the league and defense, I believe, since January 1st.

[Bam Adebayo]

And I did not realize that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And certainly during the last, like, 15 games, they've been number one.

[Tim Bontemps]

They've gone 10 and two. They've just. Just so people know, they've gone 10 and two in their last 12 games with two wins over the Suns, two wins over the Magic, wins over the Bucks, the Heat, the Pacers and the Kings. So. Whole bunch of teams that are either playoff teams or trying to be playoff teams and been very impressive.

[Brian Windhorst]

And to Moni Kamara, the guy that they got as sort of the throw in.

[Bam Adebayo]

Oh, no, that's the guy who. It pained the Suns to give him up. I may.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know.

[Bam Adebayo]

Tell me that at the time.

[Tim Bontemps]

It also. It also remains insane that that entire. Again, I. I'm not going to go back to that trade being. I'm not going back over that ground again, that trade.

[Bam Adebayo]

Sorry for interrupting.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hold on. So. So this is very tough last week for the Phoenix Suns. The Beal trade thing, I don't think it really ever got off the ground. But that fails. They try to trade Durant, that fails. Pisses Durant off, I think is headed for a breakup in the summer. Of course, I don't know.

[Bam Adebayo]

I would wager on that for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. But it doesn't look good right now. And one trade that they do make is a trade to offload Yousef, which was a money move, which was a smart money move because it saved him over $100 million. But also just backs up that that trade was a disaster, which we talked about in the pod the other day. But part of the reason why it was a disaster, not just that they had to get rid of you. Nurkic with a first round pick. They did get Grayson Allen in that trade who's been okay, but certainly not.

[Bam Adebayo]

He's a nice role player.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but Kamara is turning into one of the most impressive young defensive players in the West.

[Bam Adebayo]

He's, he's a, the kind of guy that every good team wants. He, he's a primary defender who, you know, he's, he's got a ways to go offensively but developing on that end. But he's a really good versatile defensive player.

[Brian Windhorst]

And also by the way, you can talk about what the Blazers didn't do. That trade for Denny Avia has looked pretty good. He's been, he's had a nice season. He's been really good for them. Defensively, he's averaging 15 points shooting the ball relatively well. Yeah, I mean, you know, fourth in.

[Tim Bontemps]

Net rating and first by two and a half points in defensive rating since they started that 10 and 2 stretch back on January 19th.

[Brian Windhorst]

And when they beat the Suns the other day in two games with the Suns because the Suns were so small in the interior, ayton had a 2020.

[Tim Bontemps]

Game and was clearly enjoying it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, absolutely. Speaking of teams that didn't do anything at the deadline, real quick, before we go to James Harden interview, I just want to bring up the Orlando Magic, who for a long time this year were one of the best stories going especially as they dealt with injuries to, to Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner. Wagner was having one of the best. He was going to be an all star. I felt I both of them could have been all stars. Bankero hadn't played that much when he got hurt, but he looked great. They did win in San Antonio or I guess at home against San Antonio on Saturday by one, which was a, you know, a needed win for them. By the way, what's the status of the San Antonio bet?

[Bam Adebayo]

Ah, I'm not gloating at this point, put it that way.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think they're on pace.

[Tim Bontemps]

I tell you what did you win 36 games?

[Bam Adebayo]

Did you that would win me the bet?

[Tim Bontemps]

Did you would win you the bet?

[Bam Adebayo]

Did you see the finish in Charlotte where they also lost by one possession? Fox hit what they briefly thought the buzzer in three, but he, he didn't get it off in time. That one, that one's. That one stung the start of the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Deer and Fox era being afford to.

[Bam Adebayo]

Get Bon Tim's dinner.

[Tim Bontemps]

Starting the Aaron Fox era, starting with escaping with a win over the reeling Atlanta Hawks and then losing on back to back nights to the Charlotte Hornets with half a team and the Orlando Magic, who have been a disaster for a month. Not exactly a banner beginning for a Spurs team that's got a pretty difficult schedule I believe down the stretch. And you know, obviously they certainly have the ability to get in the mix here for the, the play in picture in the west, but I believe they're already a couple games back and yeah, they're three games back right now and those are a couple games if they're going to make a run like that, they would like to have back.

[Bam Adebayo]

So bro, you got to like do your research as you're speaking on your phone because your screen is like shaking and I'm getting.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sorry. My, my floor in the. My. I've had to change rooms because we're moving things around in our house for a variety of reasons or an apartment and the floor in this room is not great.

[Bam Adebayo]

So also nobody doesn't I told you so tone like the USWB Wendy, you know what I'm saying? My God.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Victor had a 20 footer at the buzzer or two seconds left that could have won him the game that he missed.

[Tim Bontemps]

Bottom was going in, got a really good look.

[Brian Windhorst]

Franz, Franz Wagner had a great game. He had 33. But that, that was just their second win. The last 15 games they're 2 and 13.

[Bam Adebayo]

It's too rough loss for the spurs for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

2, 2. Anyway, Magic are 2 and 13 in their last 15. We know that they had established themselves as an elite defensive team in this 15 games. They ranked 17th on defense.

[Bam Adebayo]

Wow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Just completely collapsed on the defensive end of the floor. Paolo has not been playing. He lost his mojo from where he.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was before and he has been flat out rough since coming back.

[Bam Adebayo]

And, and like you said, it's, it's really surprising because they did such a great job of keeping their heads above water.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Bam Adebayo]

While they were without Pallo, while they were without Bronze Wagner. And for them to go through a stretch like this is just really, really surprising.

[Tim Bontemps]

Played in all 15 of those games. Orlando's offensive rating is 100 flat. Oh, 100.1. And their defensive rating is 112.1. That is a negative 12 per 100 possessions within.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's sniffing Wizards territory.

[Bam Adebayo]

I will point out there has been one major, major hole in the lineup during this downturn. I think we're, we're about to set.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was about to set this up, but go ahead.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, I think we're finding out just how Important Jalen Suggs is to the Orlando Magic.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jalen Sucked, has played one game and 16 minutes across this stretch and his a, his net rating in those 16 minutes was 36.3. Obviously it's just 16 minutes, but every other guy on the team over this stretch is negative, literally. And yes, to McMahon's point, I think we are learning the vital importance of Jalen Suggs to this Orlando Magic team.

[Brian Windhorst]

But the point is that this team has got expiring contracts, it's got all kinds of draft assets. And yet again they went, this is team was crying out for an offensive input or offensive influx and they went through the deadline. Four teams didn't make trades at the deadline. Okay? Some of them was because they were stuck in the apron. You know, like the Timberwolves didn't make a trade. They had a little fantasy discussion with the Suns about Kevin Durant, but you know, it's because they had nothing better to do. You know, because they're second apron team. The Magic have all the flexibility and everything in the world and they just sat there and didn't do anything. You know, I talked to and Jeff Weltman, their gm, almost never does anything at the deadline. He, four or five years ago, he did those trades where he traded Vucevich at the deadline and he traded Evan Fournier at the deadline. Those were sale, they were selling. They were starting their rebuild. They haven't made a talent acquisition trade at the deadline in six years, which was when they traded for Markel Fultz, which is really like picking a player up cheap. They just don't do it. I talk to teams who talk with the, with the Magic and I say, hey, do the Magic. Do they have like conversations and they're like, yeah, if you call them, it'll be a real trade conversation. But they don't make calls. They just, they take calls and they don't really engage. I mean, he's just, he doesn't want to do it. Like obviously it's not like, it's just something he doesn't do. He doesn't do trades and that's fine. But like your team is in free fall. You have the ability to do it. And now they're in the playing zone. Now this is a team that was competing for second or third in the east at one point is now in the playing zone.

[Bam Adebayo]

You know, the, the other way to look at it, I'm sure that the way that they're looking at it is they are building around 22 year old Paula Ben Caro, you know, Franz Wagner, who is 23 years old. And you know, Suggs is kind of the, the old head of the, of the trio that they're building around and he's all of 23, so a couple months older than Fran. So they are still a very, very young core. You know, despite the fact they've been in the playoffs, you can say they're still kind of early in their developmental phase, but they've shown enough that they've got the chance to at least be a playoff team. And you know, do you want to amp that up and give them a chance to do some damage? Because certainly doesn't look like a team's going to be able to do any damage at this point.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, like I said, the Powell numbers during the stretch have been rough. They're 14 points per 100 better with Franz Wagner on the court than on the bench during the stretch. They're six points worse per 100 with Paolo on the court than on the bench during the stretch. And Powell's played most minutes of anybody on the team. And you know, over these, over these last 15 games during this stretch, as the team has been struggling, he's shooting 40 from the field and 25 from three and has, and has almost got a one to one assisted turnover ratio. So yeah, he got off to such.

[Bam Adebayo]

A great start and then the oblique knocked him out for a while. You know, we've talked about it before. The efficiency has always been something that needed to question mark. It's also like find a, a big time score at the age of 23. That's almost always going to be the case with rare exceptions.

[Brian Windhorst]

Listen, if their ownership, Dan DeVos is, if he's got him sold on it, that's all that matters. If your ownership supports, I'm sure their fans would love to see an influx, but if that ownership is on board with that slow boil, then that's fine.

[Bam Adebayo]

Hey, OKC went through a slow boil, you know, and true. I mean they really do years for two years, sure. But even last year, like they're big. They didn't take a big swing in the trade deadline. They acquired freaking Gordon Hayward. And the best thing you can say about that is it freed up cap space to get Hartenstein this summer. Wendy, we skipped over it though. You mentioned on NBA Today this week this notion and you don't pull things from outer space. You're talking to people around the league and you mentioned this.

[Brian Windhorst]

To be clear, before you say this, this is not my opinion.

[Bam Adebayo]

Right. This is from you talking, you talk.

[Tim Bontemps]

To Jay, you Have a spouse. This opinion on the podcast, though, I'm.

[Bam Adebayo]

Going to say, right, I have what.

[Tim Bontemps]

You have espoused this opinion on the podcast at several points this season.

[Bam Adebayo]

A spouse. He's been married for a long time.

[Tim Bontemps]

He. He has said at several points this season. The Western Conference is wide open this.

[Bam Adebayo]

Season on the podcast. So, yeah, you basically said, hey, now 42 and 9, Oklahoma City is not feared in the west. And I'd like to hear you elaborate on that. And I, I've heard similar things and I certainly heard that last year going in the playoffs, including from some folks that are within a very short drive for me.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I think they beat them. If I'm not mistaken, the folks in the short drive from you correct.

[Bam Adebayo]

Last time checked.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look, I think the Thunder. Awesome. I love watching them play. You watch Shay Gildas Alexander, by the way, I was watching games this week with Udonis Aslam, who was doing studio work from us, and we were watching the Thunder one night and he's like, it's crazy, man, that Shay doesn't sweat. No, you mentioned this and now I can't. Now I'm. Now I'm obsessed with it.

[Bam Adebayo]

He's the coolest guy in every room.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he, like, right now, Shay is like at the top of his game. Like, it's amazing to watch. And you guys know that I've been super high on Homegren for a long time. I love his mentality, I love his makeup.

[Bam Adebayo]

And you discovered them.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's what I did. I was there when he was 14 years old in the gym in Minneapolis. But, you know, they're not a team because of their nature, you know, that inspire that intimidates people.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, when I wrote about the Thunder culture and it's like, it's almost like a boy scout style of culture. Like, you got all these young ambitious guys who, as I put it, they buy into the boring and they do like the, you know, group interviews. And Draymond got on his podcast and like ripped it, like, ain't nobody gonna fear you if you're doing like, you know, group interviews post game, which is, I thought, a Draymond trolling attempt, but, you know, but that's all like, they aren't a team. They're not like a team that intimidates opponents despite the fact that they are tough as hell. They're the best defensive team in the league by a significant margin. And they've got a guy. Shay just had a seven game span where he hit 53 times and it would have been four, but they were blowing the. The Bucks JV out so bad that he basically chilled the whole second half.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. And in the, in the game where they completely dismantled Cleveland, he scored 40 and three quarters.

[Bam Adebayo]

Dude, he's outscored. He's outscored opponents in a quarter like three or four times in the last month.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I mean, he's absolutely slaying and not sweating and you know, like. And they haven't even like learned like, the thing about it is like, I think, you know, I'm not saying there hasn't been a few extraneous possessions where this hasn't been the case, but literally, Chad Holmgren, until the last three days had never played power forward in the NBA. Yeah. Which is his position.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, that. That's interesting. It is. I tell you. There's also a trend about teams going big again. And the Cavs are part of this. The Mavericks now certainly with 80 starting at the 4, are part of this. The Thunder are part of this.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Lakers are not.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the last two champions have been built around teams that have great positional size. And I think if you look at the history of the NBA for as much as playing small became a. An invoke thing, and particularly because of the warriors and death lineup, at the end of the day, the thing that has always won in the NBA is being able to have as much skilled size as you can at every position. And I think we're seeing. We're seeing that trend shift back the other way in particular with teams really going with. With two bigs that can do a lot of stuff on the court like Anthony Davis and Chad Holgren and Evan Mobley and Jaren Jackson Jr. And these other fours that can do all this stuff, they're not.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's not exactly going freaking awesome in that playoff run, including the Finals.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct. I mean, that was. Again, you. You hit on. We hit on that a ton on the pod. And you were on that from the beginning. Brian having Michael Porter Jr. And Aaron Gordon and Nikola Jokic in the front court all at 6, 10 or bigger. Like, you know, and then KCP and Jamal Murray are big guards. Like, that was a team that was built around positional size. The Celtics are a team. They're starting lineup. Their guards are big, their wings are big. They're playing a couple seven footers. They're playing them together sometimes. Like, that's been the way the league has shifted in general. And look for as far as the Thunder goes, like, let's go back to the Celtics last year. Let's go Back to the Nuggets the year before that. Like until a team breaks through and wins a title, everybody is going to look at a team and say, well, they haven't done it yet. Here's why they're not going to do it again. And then when they win, you go back and say, oh, they were always going to win. That. That's been the nature of how this has always worked. And that's the, that's the challenge that the Thunder have to overcome over the next few months.

[Brian Windhorst]

So on Saturday night, Aaron Wiggins, who.

[Bam Adebayo]

Is, he's really having a hell of a season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Who, who you would have said at the beginning of the year wasn't one of the top seven players on the Thunder.

[Bam Adebayo]

Sure, he's somewhere. Yeah, you'd say he was like the.

[Tim Bontemps]

9Th or 10th man back end rotation player.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he had 26 and 11 in Memphis. In that game. Last week in a game against sac, he had 41 and 14 against Toronto. Last Friday he had 18.

[Bam Adebayo]

Just another Thunder developmental like home run type of thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

By the way, here's Aaron Wiggins overall pick. Here's Aaron Wiggins contract the next five seasons. This year he's making $10.5 million. Next year he's making $9.6 million. The following year he's making $8.8 million. The following year he's Making $7,900,000. And then in 2028, 2029, after his salary in 2728 is 4.2% of the salary cap, the Thunder have a team option for another 7.9 million that at that point I think will be under 4% of the salary cap. For a two way wing. For a two way wing who can play guard, multiple positions, can hit threes, can do all sorts of stuff. And it's important because they got three guys who are going to be making max or near max salaries. In Chase case, a super max salary. And that's how you have playable depth around those guys. By signing guys like him and Isaiah Joe and these other guys to long term descending cheap contracts that give you depth and flexibility around them.

[Brian Windhorst]

55Th pick in the 2021 draft who they control through age 30.

[Tim Bontemps]

Meanwhile, Lou Dort was undrafted, same thing. You know, Isaiah Joe was a late second round pick by the Sixers who was cut and pick one.

[Brian Windhorst]

They claim them on waivers. Yeah, I mean by the way, Jackson looked up the number. They've won seven in a row against the, against the Grizzlies.

[Bam Adebayo]

And we're assuming that Shea will be there. We're assuming he'll get the supermax. We're assuming he won't be traded. Midnight on a Saturday night like I, I would have assumed all those things about Luca.

[Brian Windhorst]

I made a joke. I made a joke on TV last week that said on, on June 30th that their Oklahoma State Trooper are going to flank Sam Presti as he walks into Shea's house holding the Max Supermax contract paper.

[Tim Bontemps]

I will take my life on Shay being part of the Thunder.

[Bam Adebayo]

I will say I've done a lot of reporting over the years on all the things. The reasoning now for a trade that still shocked me with Luca. I've never heard a single concern about Jacobs, Alexander's conditioning or approach or anything like that.

[Brian Windhorst]

He doesn't sweat.

[Bam Adebayo]

No, I think they're pretty comfortable with the no, he sweats. It's just behind closed doors to get rid of games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I would just say. I would just say that I report what people say and I, and I believe that the west is open, but I don't.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't believe the west is open.

[Brian Windhorst]

I say that and I do not want.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm gonna say this right and finish well.

[Brian Windhorst]

I do not want anything to be taking away from the awesomeness that is the Thunder.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm going to say I have my.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hotel reservations for the finals booked in Oklahoma City.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, you keep saying the west is open. The west is not open. If the Thunder don't make the finals, it's a massive disappointment. They are quite clearly the best team in the West. They've been quite clearly the best team in the league all season. It's not really close. Now, obviously, if they have.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is a pivot for you because you've been the one saying you don't think they've got enough on offense. So I think you've been more questioning them than I have.

[Tim Bontemps]

I am not. I am curious to see what their, what ultimately it looks like in the playoffs when they get to the end. And I, I do have concerns about them winning a title with Jalen Williams as their secondary creator on offense because he has struggled in that role at different points. But look, I think their biggest competition to win the title is Boston. I think they're better than everybody else and the Western Conference. All these teams are flawed in the West. And the Thunder, like, yes, they have some flaws on offense. They have a net rating of 13. They are quite clearly the best team. It's not really debatable. And yes, like, you know, the Thunder like to talk about going from breakfast to brunch to lunch, to dinner and like moving along.

[Bam Adebayo]

But it's a five course meal at this point.

[Tim Bontemps]

Stop it. They are. They are. They have potentially the MVP of the league. We might be getting an update this week on where that sits. And they've got a deep, They've got the deepest roster in the league. You just mentioned Aaron Wiggins. They've got talent up and down the roster. Now they've got Chet and Isaiah Hartenstein playing together for the first time like they should be in the finals for the first time since 2012. And if they're not, it's going to be a disappointment.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, we already have plans. Wendy, you're not aware of this, but the old pink parrot opening back up as the Goat. Going to be a hell of a sports bar. 50 big screen TVs and we're going to have a at least an informal pod event there. Wendy.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you're required to during the finals.

[Bam Adebayo]

You're required to attend during the finals. Shall the Thunder do their part? The chat stuff's fascinating though. There were the Thunder, first of all, they gave the Mavericks the toughest series during the Western Conference playoffs last year. By far. It literally that series, it went six games, but the final cumulative score was even. There were two things that got the Thunder beaten in that series. Two flaws on their team. Obviously Thunder killer PJ Washington was also a big thing, but the biggest flaws, they got manhandled on the glass, especially in game six when Derek Live with the second absolutely dominated. And they had just this weird funky fit with Josh Giddy, who they ended up benching in the series. And it was just, it was, it was just a poor fit. They turned Gideon, Alex Caruso, a phenomenal fit, an elite defender to add to their mix of elite defenders, maybe their third best premier defender as good as he is, which is a mouthful. And then they went out and they got, they got Hartenstein, who is, you know, just an awesome rebounder, fits everything that they do. And now Hartenstein and Chet had not played one second together aside from preseason until the other night. Now they've got 30 plus games to figure out how that fits, how that works, how they want to hammer it in rotation, how much, you know, they started them together. I bet you that's going to continue. How much? Because the fifth starter has been a game by game decision all season long. You know, how much will Chet play? 5. How much will he play? 4? It was interesting the other night when he came back. They played him with Jalen Williams. J Will the what's now the basic third string center. They played him with Jay Will a lot. And what that tells me is they really want Chet to get as many minutes as possible playing power forward to get those reps under his belt. Look tiny, tiny, tiny sample size against the Toronto Raptors and all that. But Chet and Hartenstein played 15 minutes together. The Thunder were plus 13 in those minutes. But they've got 30 games to make that work and they're clearly the favorites in the Western Conference despite to your point, Wendy, not necessarily being feared.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, real quick before we get to James Harden, point something out about the Celtics this last week one in Cleveland strongly. I mean it came down to near the end but they, they flex their muscle then went into the garden on Saturday and slapped the Knicks across the face. So even though they spun their wheels a little bit, they showed you the muscle against teams number two. Well, they're number two but the other two teams in the east and they.

[Tim Bontemps]

Did that especially on, especially on Saturday with both Chris Dasporzingis and Drew Holiday not playing. And I continue to say that I think they are a team that feels like they are just trying to get through the season and get to the playoffs. Much like to reference CAVS CORNER the second edition of LeBron and Cleveland where that team generally felt like it was on cruise control from about December until April and then in the playoffs it became a wrecking crew. And look I.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're around them a lot more than me. When I watch them play, I don't see them. That Cavs team had nights where they just totally didn't care. I have not seen that from the Celtics. I think they're playing hard.

[Bam Adebayo]

Wellinga said of himself they were lions last year. They've been house cats in too many games this year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I think they, I think the Celtics are. I think the Celtics are learning that it's a different thing to be the defending champions and to get the best shot from every single team every single night. And I it's not the same as those LeBron Cavs teams because for as great as Jason Tatum is and he's awesome and he's very likely to be a first team all NBA player again this season. They don't have LeBron on their team.

[Brian Windhorst]

But they are last year in Cleveland that last year that where they really wheezed to the, to the finals they had to win two seven game series. I think they were 27th or 28th during the regular season in defense.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, I'm more talking about.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was embarrassing.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, that I'm more Talking about the 16 and 17 teams where they were. They knew they were the best team and they were just trying to get to the end. I think. I think the Celtics, presuming health are going to be just fine. And look, I. No disrespect to Cavs corner, but we should be looking at Celtics thunder in June.

[Brian Windhorst]

I have reservations in Boston.

[Bam Adebayo]

You got reservations in like 12 cities?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I have reservations in Cleveland, Boston and Oklahoma City.

[Bam Adebayo]

I will say I canceled my reservations in Philadelphia a while back. Oh, hey, I'm shocked. This is the first Jason Tatum reference on the pod this year without an appearance from Steve Kerr's defense attorney. Better Call Saul. Come on. Where are we? What's that? What's happening?

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, I got a chance to talk to James Harden a little bit ago. Here's. I think it was a good conversation. Come for the discussion about his mustache and stay for some good. It was a. It was a good talk with James Harden. That's coming up right here.

[Bam Adebayo]

Collective More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. During tax season, your personal info travels to a lot of places. Between payroll, your tax consultant, and the IRS. If your W2 gets exposed, that's just the ticket for identity thieves. That's why Lifelock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply. All right, James, so you've done a ton of. How many commercials you think you've done over the years? You've done like dozens and dozens of commercials.

[James Harden]

I did. I was singing in the studio with Steph Beard commercial just all over the place.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think my favorite one was the one you did with Chris Paul for State Farm, where, like, his, like, there was a fire and like, you were pretend like you didn't do it, but it was very clearly like your silhouette on the wall. And the reason I like is because I think Chris plays mad very well. Like, he's. He's usually mad. He's always mad, right?

[James Harden]

He's always mad.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was a really good super bowl commercial. Have you ever had a Super bowl commercial before?

[James Harden]

Yeah, I have. But, like, is. I mean, it's been a minute, obviously, but this one is just. It's a little bit more special, you know, like, like Pringles is elite, you know, when it comes to crisp. They've been around for a very, very, very long Time. And I think it was just. It's dope, man. Like, I'm excited about the spot.

[Brian Windhorst]

I, like, you're a man of the world. You'll call him Crisps. Like, it's very international.

[James Harden]

Yeah, you gotta be, you know, you gotta. I'm global a little bit, so you gotta heat up a little bit.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know you spent a lot of time in Europe. Yeah. I think, you know, you've got the facial hair market cornered. It's actually kind of a miracle it's taken this long for Pringles.

[James Harden]

It's over. There's no more.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're done. You're done with it.

[James Harden]

There's nobody that can, you know, facial here.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. But it's always kind of cool to be involved in the super bowl, right? Because, like, now you're going to be talked about for several days.

[James Harden]

Yeah. It's fire, you know, it's like, that's like the biggest weekend when it comes to, you know, football and just to be on tv, you know, being in a spot with Pringles is elite. You know, I mean, it's like. It's like another level of attention, which, you know, I love to be a part of when it comes to things like this.

[Brian Windhorst]

So if you could, in your 30s, James Harden, go talk to in your 20s, James Harden. What would you. What would you say to him?

[James Harden]

I don't know, because I, like, I do things and I live, so I wouldn't be having to, like, look back and regret or. Or feel like I'm missing something. Does that make sense?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So you're saying you don't. You don't have regrets, but, like, you're. You're. You've. You have. Your game has evolved a lot. Like, so I feel like you've been somebody who does focus on evolution. So like, even, like when I was.

[James Harden]

Like, a little kid, like, a lot, I always can, like, shoot, but I couldn't do anything else. Like, I couldn't move for, like, I was just. I was just a shooter, like a spot in the corner shooter. And then, you know, as I started getting taller and, you know, able to move a little bit more, even in college, like, my handles wasn't that great. It was good, but it wasn't great. And I think just putting in the work and trying to figure out ways to get better, I guess. But I don't know. I think just. I don't know, every aspect of my game, I feel like I've gotten, you know, better in and elite at a lot of things.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but. Yeah, okay. There's a lot of guys who can dribble. But your, your footwork. Yeah, your footwork is, you know, that's separation right there.

[James Harden]

That's the difference. That's the difference.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Because I feel like you're, you know, that's, you know, your ability to, to position your feet like that was a real skill that you develop. Like, you know that.

[James Harden]

That's my life. That's everything for me. Like, my footwork is how I get past people and how I create the advantage and do all these. That's like my, my. Probably my greatest, greatest skill.

[Brian Windhorst]

For do, do guys, the younger players, like, do they ask you stuff like that? Do they ask you, like, what to work on?

[James Harden]

Yeah, they asked me like, how do you draw fouls? And how do you step back? And it's like, no, it's more than just that, you know, do you, do.

[Brian Windhorst]

You like giving advice to younger players? Because you're kind of like a, like a, you're getting up there, man. Sorry to say.

[James Harden]

See, I knew he was gonna say that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, it's true.

[James Harden]

It is true, but you didn't have to say it anyways. Yeah, like, I love giving advice. I love being a leader. Like, especially, you know, the guys that we got now. Somebody like Jordan Miller who's, you know, left handed and kind of crafty, you know, asked me a lot of questions about, you know, footwork and things like that. So, yeah, I love, I love to get advice, give advice and, you know, you know, help players.

[Brian Windhorst]

What do you think about, like, people talking about the game? Like they're kind of criticizing the game a little bit. It's kind of a popular thing right now to say too many threes or whatever. Like, or like just like people think the game is messed up or out of balance. I mean, what do you. I mean, you've been around a while now. You've played, you've been through some errors. What do you think about that?

[James Harden]

I just, I mean, I don't want to. And I never want to feel like the old guy that's. But it's like there's no, a lot of, there's not a lot of vets on each team. So like, you, you. They don't have the experience. Like, when I was coming in, you had Nazi, Muhammad and Kevin Ali and, you know, Nick Collison. You have like, vets to show you and, and show you how to be a professional and then show you how to work and show you how to be like all those things. And there's steps to It. And right now it's just a lot of young guys. And I get it. Like, young guys, they want to, you know, they want to take a chance on them and things like that, but they don't know how to, like, be a professional. They don't know how to work. They don't know how to. And so a lot of guys are in the NBA for a couple years and then you no longer hear of them. And it's like, that's what, that's what. That's what the NBA wanted, or that's what people wanted. And I don't know. But when the Threes was falling and the excitement was. Was doing it, it was no problem. So it's like, I feel like it's a lot of things that's. That, that's. That's wrong with it, but, like, what am I going to do to change it? You know what I mean?

[Brian Windhorst]

I know you can't do anything to change it. I just think you've got perspective on it. Like, you were part of the analytics movement, in all honesty, facts.

[James Harden]

But I, like, I, I try to play the game the right way. I really didn't think about the analytics. Like, that's with the, the. The, you know, up. The guys in the, in the front office was. That's their job. I just try to play the game the right way and, and figure out what team, what pieces we had on the court to, you know, to make them better, if that makes sense. And so the analytics were kind of. Now they blowing out of proportion. Like, analytics is literally everything. And if you don't. If you don't play by the analytics, like, you know, you don't have a chance of winning or, or we don't like this player because he doesn't fit our analytics. And there's times where they were saying analytics was important. I'm like, no, no, no, we need to get him. And he helped our team. And then, like, the front office is wrong. You know, I mean, so there's. It's like, there's negatives and positives to it. There's pros and cons. But like I said, I just go out there and try to do my job the best of my ability.

[Brian Windhorst]

So when I've been around the Clippers this year, several people have, like, have talked to me about the Odd Couple. And you're part of the Odd Couple along with Jeff Van Gundy, because they talk about how you guys really, really have bonded and get along and, like, work together.

[James Harden]

And he, he leaves notes in my locker. He Texts me. It's like a relationship for real. He's been great though. He's like, he's definitely like, he's one of a kind in a great way. Like, he knows the game of basketball.

[Bam Adebayo]

Like, really well, so.

[Brian Windhorst]

But you guys had some relationship back in Houston, right? You know, he lived there and you were playing there. Like you had some connection.

[James Harden]

Not really, though. Not really. You know, he was, you know, we'd see each other, but we really didn't have. We didn't have each other number or anything. Yeah, we just like, it was like love at first sight. We like hit it off. He really helps me, man. Like, even like he, he's able to talk to me and, and put me in my place, you know, and correct me, help me with things. And I respect him a lot. So, like, it's like a real. It's like a real partnership.

[Brian Windhorst]

In a way, you're kind of similar because you both are kind of like showing people that, like, you still got it because, you know, like, Van Gundy, you know, he couldn't get a job. Like, he. For years people would want to hire him to be a head coach. And he was like, no, I'm not going to do it. And then he kind of wanted a job and he couldn't get one, and now, you know, he's back in it and like, people thought maybe you were past your prime and this year you're having a great year, All Star level and, you know, really leading the Clippers to surprise season. I feel like you kind of guys are kind of doing some of the same thing.

[James Harden]

Yeah, for sure. Like, and I don't know why, I don't know why he couldn't get a job. Like, especially being around him and like, his energy, the work, he puts the work in. Like, he has us prepared every single night. That's one thing. But like, his energy, his excitement, like, he's one of those guys where you come to work and you love to be around him because he's like, he's about his work, but then he's funny too. So, like, you know that. Who love, like you love that, you know, I mean.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah.

[James Harden]

So I don't know why he couldn't get a job. And then I don't know why people overlook me. Like, I haven't been doing this for a very long time. Like, I'm not, like, I can't lead a team still at this age, so. But people have their perspective or they, or their opinions or whatnot. And it is what it is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, well, yeah, But I mean, like, when you, when you left Houston, you had two stops where it didn't work out. Like, there were many ways it didn't work out. I would agree with you, but like, that. That's what tarnished your reputation was. And by the way, not just you, other players involved with that too, but like, it, it just showed in what people thought about you. I mean, like, you know, you want to be traded. It took a while to get traded because it was complicated. You know, contracts was complicated.

[James Harden]

So, like, it wasn't that complicated. Just to let you know, it wasn't that complicated. It could have went a lot easier, a lot smoother. Other people made it complicated. But that's. But you. I agree with you. So. But back to like, I think just me always having the ability and the work ethic that I have, like, the, the. The game is always going to be there, if that makes sense. It's going. It's going to be there.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. And then you're proving that this year. Before we go, let me just say this. You've been on a lot of teams where there was huge expectations to start the season. Like, up. This team is a championship team. Like, you know, you know, definitely in Houston, definitely in Brooklyn, definitely in Philly. Like, this team that you're on now, the expectations were very low. Like, you know, like, they may give the thunder, like a lottery pick. Completely, completely different expectation. And like you and Norm Powell, who's been great, like, obviously you would probably rather prefer to be on a team that may maybe, you know, playing in the finals and maybe you'll post on Miracle. I don't think that's going to happen. But what is this experience? Been like, sorry, prove me wrong. You know, roll it back and prove me wrong. What is this experience Been like where. Where like, it's like you've been on this team where it's like, man, these guys are like, fun and refreshing.

[James Harden]

That's exactly what it is. And it's like they, they, they. They work and we're all on the same page. So like, they're excited for each other's success. Like, we're excited for, like, it might be Norm one night, it might be Zoo one night, it might be me. Like, that's like the exciting part about it, which hasn't been that way in these, you know, I mean, in a minute. So. And then now getting Kawhi back, you know, and then and ramping him up slowly, it's like we, we. We really believe, like, we have a chance to compete with Anybody, you know, with our, with the full roster.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, you know, you know, honestly, that is fair because if Kawhi's playing top level and you're playing top level, I don't want you in a one game playoff. Honestly. Yeah.

[James Harden]

Because we gonna get after you and like healthy health is, is, is. Is a factor of any team. Like, you know what I mean? So. But we are, if we are healthy, like take these nine games and take this all star break and then after that start ramping up and we don't really figure out who we are and who we can really be as a team. And if we really got a chance at this thing, which I think we all do believe that. So I think we all excited about it.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Hey, congrats on your commercial. Thanks for your time. And hey, I'll see you in the playoffs, man.

[James Harden]

Enjoy Paris.

[Bam Adebayo]

Don't get too tired.

[Brian Windhorst]

They work me too hard.

[James Harden]

Rb.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, thanks for. Thanks for your time. I'll see you down the line.

[James Harden]

All right, brother.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Thanks to James Harden. That was a good conversation. I really enjoyed it. It was a little bit ago. We had to put it on tape just for scheduling purposes. So he didn't know at the time that the half the league was gonna get turned upside down. But the Clippers are still doing very well. Thank you for his time. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to Bon Tempson McMahon. Thank you for watching the Hoop Collective. And thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective, which is presented by State Farm. And we will talk to you later this week.

[Bam Adebayo]

Adios, amigos.

[James Harden]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[James Harden]

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[Brian Windhorst]

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