Analyzing The NBA Draft’s Top Prospects + Reacting To Celtics’ Trades

Summary

Hoop Collective Podcast Summary Episode: Analyzing The NBA Draft’s Top Prospects + Reacting To Celtics’ Trades
Release Date: June 25, 2025
Hosts: Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, Marc Stein, Kevin Pelton, Jonathan Gavoni

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with Tim Bontemps welcoming listeners to the Hoop Collective Podcast. The host mentions the dynamic nature of podcast recordings, highlighting the presence of various hosts in different outfits during live recordings. The focus of this episode revolves around the Boston Celtics' recent trades and an in-depth analysis of the NBA Draft's top prospects.

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Boston Celtics’ Recent Trades

The Celtics have made significant moves by trading away two core players from their 2024 championship run to achieve salary relief. The trades involved sending Jrue Holiday to the Portland Trailblazers and Kristaps Porzingis to the Atlanta Hawks.

• Brian Windhorst reflects on the trades, stating, “...this is good business by the Celtics and just not much fun. And, you know, for Celtics fans, they knew this was coming” ([07:18]).

• Marc Stein adds, “They have saved almost $200 million in taxes... trading Drew Holiday to Portland and dealing with Porzingis” ([04:10]).

The primary objective of these trades was to alleviate the Celtics' salary burden, dropping them out of the second luxury tax apron and saving approximately $200 million. This financial reprieve positions the team for future flexibility without sacrificing valuable assets.

Impact on Team Dynamics

• Brian Windhorst elaborates, “Two guys who were the finishing pieces to their championship puzzle... this franchise player is going to miss most, if not all, of next season” ([07:18]).

• Marc Stein emphasizes the strategic nature of the trades, noting, “This series of moves is not what a lot of other teams could pull off without having to sacrifice future assets” ([08:54]).

The trades signal a challenging upcoming season for the Celtics, especially with their key player injured. However, they offer the organization the ability to rebuild and re-strategize for future success.

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NBA Draft Prospects Analysis

The podcast delves into the top prospects expected to make significant impacts in the NBA Draft.

1. Cooper Flag – Number One Pick

• Jonathan Gavoni praises Flag, mentioning, “He is absolutely a special player and I expect him to be an all-star and a franchise player” ([29:04]).

• Kevin Pelton highlights Flag's physical attributes, stating, “He’s 220 pounds and will get stronger... he’s a guy who will not be physically dominated in the NBA” ([31:38]).

Flag is touted as a dominant defensive player with immense potential offensively. His ability to handle the physicality of the NBA without being overpowered sets him apart as a top pick.

2. Dylan Harper – Number Two Pick

• Jonathan Gavoni describes Harper as a versatile and resilient player, “a guy who can get to his spots on the floor, play pick and roll, score as well” ([32:16]).

• Kevin Pelton adds, “his stock is only increased” due to his standout performances, especially in the playoff opener between the Pistons and the Knicks ([33:59]).

Harper is recognized for his defensive prowess and offensive creativity, making him a high-value pick with a strong ceiling.

3. Ace Bailey vs. DJ Edgecombe – Number Three Pick

• Jonathan Gavoni discusses the strategic positioning of Ace Bailey, “...he has everything that you look for from a player that age to be an all NBA guy” ([36:26]).

• Kevin Pelton voices skepticism, comparing Bailey to past risky picks like Luka Doncic, stating, “I don't like it, but I kinda get it” ([43:55]).

The debate centers around Bailey's potential versus the more consistent Edgecombe. While Bailey offers high upside, concerns about his fit and physical measurements make this a contentious pick.

4. Kaman Malik – Number Four Pick

• Jonathan Gavoni lauds Malik’s defensive impact and growth, “he has 7’7 wingspan, 9’6 standing reach... he drains three after three” ([56:41]).

• Kevin Pelton remarks on Malik's transformation, “...he's been improving year after year, what he's done with his body, his skill level” ([58:35]).

Malik stands out as a defensive anchor with evolving offensive skills, making him a strong candidate for top draft spots.

5. Casperus Yakuchonis – Beyond Top Five

• Jonathan Gavoni introduces Yakuchonis as an underrated talent, “...he’s going to be an outstanding NBA player long term” ([58:48]).

• Kevin Pelton highlights his versatility, “Makes every read out of ball screens, has great frame, great toughness” ([59:50]).

Yakuchonis is viewed as a valuable asset due to his defensive versatility and playmaking abilities, despite some inconsistencies in shooting.

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Team-Specific Analyses

Atlanta Hawks

The Hawks have acquired Kristaps Porzingis and traded away Jrue Holiday to manage their salary cap.

• Brian Windhorst notes, “...the Celtics traded these two guys... it's an expensive route” ([07:18]).

• Marc Stein adds, “They have achieved goals by saving a gazillion dollars and have not sacrificed future assets” ([08:54]).

Porzingis' addition provides the Hawks with a defensive presence and offensive versatility, though questions remain about his health and long-term integration.

Portland Trailblazers

Portland's aggressive move to acquire Jrue Holiday from Boston aims to bolster their competitiveness.

• Tim Bontemps expresses confusion, “They keep adding veteran players ahead of those guys... this move screams they believe they can make the playoffs next year” ([16:05]).

• Marc Stein cautions, “It's going to be really hard for them to crack the plane in the West” ([16:05]).

Despite enhancing their roster, the Trailblazers face challenges in balancing veteran presence with young talent development.

Dallas Mavericks

The Mavericks have secured Kyrie Irving with a three-year deal and added Cooper Flag.

• Brian Windhorst remarks positively, “This Kyrie situation had a chance to be messy. It's not” ([64:57]).

• Marc Stein discusses the coaching staff changes, “Sean Sweeney is leaving... they have some stuff to figure out” ([66:29]).

Irving's arrival strengthens the Mavericks' backend, but coaching turnovers present new dynamics for the team.

Washington Wizards & New Orleans Pelicans Trade

A significant trade involves Jordan Poole moving to the Wizards in exchange for CJ McCollum, Kelly Olynyk, and a future second-round pick.

• Tim Bontemps highlights, “This puts Wizards in position to have up to $100 million in salary cap space” ([69:47]).

• Marc Stein comments, “The Wizards have a decent collection of young players” ([73:35]).

The Wizards gain substantial cap flexibility to rebuild and enhance their roster, while the Pelicans acquire experienced players to stabilize their lineup.

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Conclusion

The episode of Hoop Collective provides a comprehensive analysis of recent NBA trades, focusing on the Boston Celtics' strategic salary maneuvers and an in-depth look at top prospects entering the NBA Draft. The hosts offer diverse perspectives on team strategies, player potentials, and the broader implications for the upcoming NBA season. Notable quotes and timestamps underscore key insights, making this summary valuable for listeners and NBA enthusiasts seeking an informed overview of current league developments.

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Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst ([07:18]): “...this is good business by the Celtics and just not much fun.”

• Marc Stein ([04:10]): “They have saved almost $200 million in taxes...”

• Jonathan Gavoni ([29:04]): “He is absolutely a special player and I expect him to be an all-star and franchise player.”

• Kevin Pelton ([43:55]): “I don't like it, but I kinda get it.”

• Jonathan Gavoni ([56:41]): “He has 7’7 wingspan, 9’6 standing reach... he drains three after three.”

• Tim Bontemps ([69:47]): “The Wizards are in position to have up to $100 million in salary cap space.”

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the Hoop Collective podcast episode, providing a cohesive overview for those who have not listened to the original content.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

And.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Beach lovers will wonder why they've never.

[Brian Windhorst]

Felt so relaxed before. You're invited to discover experiences you can only find in Texas. Visit traveltexas.com and plan your trip today.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Let's Texas.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Tuesday evening. And if you're eagle eyed as you watch this podcast, if you were watching it on ESPN2 or on YouTube, you'll see me and us in multiple different outfits because this podcast for various reasons was recorded at different times on different days. But we hope this is going to be the last time we record it. Joining me from New York City down the road is Tim Bontemps.

[Marc Stein]

This is one of those magical days where we do whole segments of the podcast and stuff is good. We have good pods and then we have to just completely redo it because events change as the day goes on.

[Tim Bontemps]

It happens. Bon Temps will be covering the draft on Wednesday night.

[Marc Stein]

I will see.

[Tim Bontemps]

I know from earlier that's his 13th career draft, something like that.

[Marc Stein]

It's in New York every year, so I'm always at it. I don't know how many years it's been. It's been enough NBA, we're calling it Sunday night. It is game eight of the finals.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's about right.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas back home where he's going to be going to the Mavericks drafting of Cooper Flag on Wednesday night is Ban McMahon.

[Brian Windhorst]

Howdy partners. I think that the Bond Timps 13th draft is about all we'll keep from the stuff that we recorded earlier in the day.

[Tim Bontemps]

Please do, please.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was good practice for us though. We haven't done a lot of podcast in late.

[Marc Stein]

We don't pot enough.

[Tim Bontemps]

Please, please. Hope now that sees the light of day. All right, we're going to talk about something the Mavericks did a little later. They had some business. They got done tonight with Kyrie Irving. But first, let's talk about the Boston Celtics bond temps. They made two trades in the last 24 hours, sending off two of their core pieces from their 2024 championship run in salary dump maneuvers. Two very different trades, although they both accomplished salary relief, sending Drew Holiday to the Portland Trailblazers and sending Chris Apps Porzingis to the Atlanta Falcons.

[Brian Windhorst]

Before we talk about, oh, what's he doing? Is he tight end? Is he playing wide receiver?

[Tim Bontemps]

He would be an incredible W receiver because, you know, you throw those fade routes, the corner. You're not defending them. Why would I say the Atlanta Falcons? It's crazy.

[Kevin Pelton]

It's just where we are at.

[Marc Stein]

It's where we're at for the 2025 NBA Draft.

[Brian Windhorst]

An indirect windy sleep update. I tell you what, I think block some field goals, though.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh my God. Just put them right on the line. Although I bet you could low, low bridge them and take him right out.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, on those 50 yards, you just put them back by the goal post and have like a. There's no, there's no such thing as goaltending.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm sure that's worth 30 million a year. All right, The Atlanta Hawks bondemps the Celtics knew that they were going to have some salary crunch this year even before Jayson Tatum got hurt. When he got hurt, there was just no way they could justify spending this type of money. And so these two trades, I believe have saved them close to $200 million in actual money in savings in salary and luxury tax because they're a repeater. So each tax dollar is worth 4, 5, 6 dollars, 7 dollars. I don't even know. It's a lot. So humongous cash savings. But more importantly, it drops them out of the second apron, which takes the shackles off in a number of different ways. I'm sure it's a tough moment for Boston fans, but if you listen to hoop collective, you knew this was coming and it was covered heavily in the media the last few weeks. We just didn't know how it was going to go. And they end up on the day before the draft.

[Marc Stein]

Well, then I would. The one thing that we did talk about earlier, besides the 13 drafts is going to carry over is I think there's a chance the Celtics get out of the luxury tax completely and they didn't save almost $200 million total. They saved almost $200 million in taxes. So talking they are, they have. They have gotten from having a over $500 million projected payroll to well under 300 million. And they're now only, I want to say, 16, $17 million over the luxury tax line completely because they saved about $22 million in payroll on the Porzingis deal getting back pod favorite and pod legend George the minivan diang Boston native from the Hawks. And they saved several million dollars getting the expiring contract of Anthony Simons back from the Portland Trailblazers. And look, obviously Celtics fans are going to see Jrue Holiday and Chris Esperzingis leave and Anthony Simons and Georgian come in and not be thrilled about the on court situation. But as you said, there was no way this was going to be a $500 million team this summer. And frankly the fact that the Celtics traded these two guys in particular trading Drew Holiday to Portland and deal, that really doesn't make any sense from the Portland side and ending up plus one second round pick on the two trades, that is a far, far better return than I would have expected to save this kind of money. I mean when I was at the finals there was a lot of discussion around from people around the league as to whether Boss would have to incentivize people to get off of both of these guys given the financial ramifications that were came along with it. And the fact that Porzingis had a great year when he was healthy, obviously had the weird illness over the second half of the year, has been banged up at times in his career and Jrue Holiday has three years and over $100 million left on his deal and that was seen as a negative contract. So to come out of this the way they have with basically being up slightly on assets, having saved an absolute ton of money and still having Anthony Simon so they could either keep or move on again in another deal and some other flexibility to do stuff, we'll see what happens with the rest of the roster over this week. I think it's been a great week for them. The Hawks part of the trade is super interesting.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I don't know about a great week, but it's been an effective salary.

[Marc Stein]

I would say it's been a great week in terms of them accomplishing what they needed to. I mean, look, they have accomplishing goals.

[Brian Windhorst]

That aren't very pleasant.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, I'm not trying to say it's that if I'm a fan of the Celtics, I'm having a parade. But for the front office, they have saved a gazillion dollars and have done it while adding assets, not subtracting. So they have to do work on the roster obviously, but they weren't going to be a championship level team next year anyway and they have positioned themselves for the future without sacrificing any assets to do so. From a financial standpoint, which like I said, most people did not think. I do think the Portland deal side of the Holiday deal is very interesting and I think Atlanta did a really nice job on the Porzingis part.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, we'll talk about that in a second. We'll talk about that in a second.

[Brian Windhorst]

Outdated nickname for For George Niang, he's now the G wagon. Darius Garland gave him that because he's a little sleeker now, a little bit more expensive, but certainly not compared to Kristaps Porzingis. Which is why this deal made sense for the Celtics and why former Hoop Collective guest George Niang continues his tour of the Eastern Conference. But look, man, like, it's a. It's good business by the Celtics and just not much fun. And, you know, for Celtics fans, they knew this was coming. They knew the payroll was going to get slashed, and they bid farewell to the two finishing pieces from their recent championship team. You know, but. But two guys who. Look, this is going to have to be a gap year for the Celtics. It's not like they have a choice. The franchise player, unfortunately, is going to miss most, if not all, of next season, and they were already in a situation where they needed to shed salary. So, you know, they will likely take a. Not just a step back, but, you know, they'll fall back significantly and. But be in position to hopefully bounce back. It's going. It will be interesting to see how over the next, you know, not. Not this summer, but next summer, how they try to replace the. The impact and production of these two guys. You know, again, the two guys who were the finishing pieces to their championship puzzle.

[Marc Stein]

Well, they. They are going to get a big trade exception out of this deal, I would think. And, you know, they are going to have, I think, some levers of flexibility. They can move in different directions. We'll see what other trades they make, too. They're. They're probably going to do more stuff, I would think, from where they sit now. So there's probably a lot work left, a lot of work left to be done before the roster is complete. But, you know, look, it's. What I would say is this is a continuing sign of Boston having a really good front office that is able to accomplish its goals at a pretty high level. And while in the moment, I agree this is not a fun thing to hear for Celtics fans. This. This series of moves is not what a lot of other teams could pull off without having to sacrifice future assets. And the fact they have all those future assets leaves them in a position to, you know, turn around and add pieces down the road and have different ways to do stuff. And that trade exception is going to be one avenue to eventually do so in the future.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, so Portland, they made a very aggressive move here. They finished the season 25 and 25, missed the playoffs. They extended Chauncey Billups you know, which, you know, at one time that wasn't seen as a given. And Joe Cronin, their general manager also got extended based on that 25 and 25 finish.

[Brian Windhorst]

23 and 18 in the second half. So even a little bit more.

[Kevin Pelton]

23 and 18.

[Tim Bontemps]

Good, good correction. 23 and 18. That's what they would probably prefer. I highlight so. But they, you know, look, Drew Holiday is a winning player.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Mm.

[Tim Bontemps]

McMahon, you want to use the line you used earlier?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. This guarantees that Portland's going to win the 25, 26 NBA championship. When you trade for Drew Holiday, you win a championship the next season. That's an optimistic way to look at it. The pessimistic way is, is to say that streak is probably in some serious jeopardy.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. So the thing that's surprising about this is holiday is 35 and he's got, he's owed 102 million. Oh, he's only two years guarantee. But the third year is a player option for almost 40.

[Brian Windhorst]

When he'll be how old?

[Tim Bontemps]

38. 7 to 38. So I'm wagering they should bake that. And he's a pick. He'd be picking that up. And so I'm surprised that a team that is not in position to get a finishing move, you know, would do this and I'm also surprised the team would do it. Who's on the block? You know, they're, they're for sale.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

So typically you wouldn't take on $100 million contract to your books now.

[Marc Stein]

Well, most of the NBA is surprised about particularly them taking it on and not having to be incentivized by Boston to do so.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right. And look, Anthony Simons has the trade. Anthony Simons has value. He's a, you know, he's a offensive specialist, he's a gunner. He averages, you know, nine three pointers a game which will fit in with Joe Missoula if they indeed decide to keep him. But this wasn't like they got him for nothing. Like you know, Simon's has value and so they did that plus a two.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, I was going to say and they gave up fix.

[Tim Bontemps]

So now I will say like it's possible that Portland is in the middle of making a move here. They, they have between Deandre Ayton, Matisse, Cybel, who picked up his 11.5 million dollar player option today, who else have they got?

[Marc Stein]

And Robert Williams. They have $60 million in expiring contracts with those three guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and I think Williams in particular would be attracted to certain teams, you know, Especially a team that, say, would need a defensive anchor and lobby.

[Marc Stein]

I mean, the problem with that is, I mean, I love Big Bob as much as anybody, but he can't stay on the court. And again, missed a ton of time.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Last year, more knee surgery.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah. So, I mean, if he can play, he could definitely be an impact player. But, you know, that's been a problem basically his whole career and certainly has been basically his whole time in Portland. I mean, to me, this just feels like a team that is way too optimistic about its chances based off of winning a bunch of games in the second half of the year when most of the teams they were playing were not being very competitive. Like, if you look in a Western Conference and we're going to talk about the other trade that was made today with the Pelicans and Wizards, I think you can make a decent argument that Phoenix and Portland are fighting for 13th in the west right now. And if you're in that kind of position or at best, you're maybe knocking on the door of being in the Play in tournament. Take on this Drew Holiday money to now have 40% of your cap tied up and Drew Holiday and Jeremy Grant the next three years, it just doesn't really make a lot of sense for where this team should be sitting. And it also could be, again, blocking minutes for both Scoot Henderson and Shaydon Sharp, two guys that were drafted very high in the lottery. Sharp in particular has not really had a chance to get going in his career. Henderson likely will be the starting point guard next year. We'll see. Donovan Klingon was the backup for a lot of the year behind deandre Ayton. We'll see if Ayton's on the roster, if he's starting or not. Like, they just have. It feels like this should be a team that's turning the team over to its young players and letting them grow and letting them play and seeing what they have. And instead they keep adding veteran players ahead of those guys. And this, to me, this move to me screams they believe they can make the playoffs next year. And I just, I do not see that in the car.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is a very aggressive, expensive win. Now move for a team that it's going to be tough to crack even the play in, in the Western Conference. And look, I think Portland's got a solid roster. I think if they're in the east, we'd be talking about them as a potential playoff team, but they're not. Now, if I want to kind of put my Rose Garden colored glasses on Then I would say, hey, they did go 23 and 18 the second half last season. They had the third best defense in the league during that half season stretch. You know, you add Jrue Holiday as the veteran leader of that core and I can make an argument that them having something to play for late in the season, you know, being put in competitive situations can benefit the development of guys like Scoot, Henderson, Shaden, Sharpe, Donovan, Clingan. You know, I like, I can, I can make that argument but man, it's, it's a really expensive route. Certainly I think Drew Holiday is going to be a consummate pro. He always has been. Got to be a tough pill for him to swallow too though. You know, this is a guy who since he got traded to Milwaukee, what was that in 2020, has been in nothing but contender situations. And you know, Portland can be a scrappy bunch but again, it's going to be hard for them to crack the plane in the West.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, how do you feel about the fact that Drew Holiday had his lowest field goal percentage in nine years and his lowest three point percentage in five years this year?

[Marc Stein]

Well, I mean, again, again, like this is why people did not think he was going to be a guy who would be, you'd be getting positive return for, to trade if you're Boston. And look, Drew also is a guy who has always sort of slotted into whatever the team needs and they're. He was on a team with a bunch of guys that needed the ball. So I think he was happy to take steps back and whenever they needed him to do something. Like I remember one of the games against Orlando, he had I think two or three threes and a couple steals in the final couple of minutes of one of the playoff games to win the game. Like, he is a guy that makes winning plays and is absolutely the kind of guy you want to have on your team. But yeah, look, I, I really hate the deal for Portland. I just do. I don't, I don't get what they're doing. I, they keep making a lot of moves to try to aggressively try to speed up their timeline when I don't think they're really, they really should be. And you know, we're probably going to see Phoenix we talked about in the last pod, make a lot of trades this week to try to improve their roster too. And I think they're both in similar boats where I just don't see how either of those teams is getting into the eight in the West. And I think it's going to be a Real struggle for him to get into the 10, which is why taking on all this money and doing so at a cost is just very confusing.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, so let's take a look at Atlanta's spot. I think Atlanta was, you know, sort of sitting on the sidelines. They were. They've got some. Some big trade exceptions, and so they were almost acting like a cap space team this week. And I think they were involved in some three team trades. In fact, pretty sure that they were involved in some conversations on some Durant possible three team trades that ended up not happening. And they're watching and they're like, Boston's taking pieces apart. We're not sure what's going to happen with Indiana with the Halliburton injury. We're not sure what's going to happen with Milwaukee. Just with their roster, with Giannis.

[Marc Stein]

Um. Look, they also had Terrence Vader. They were trying to get off, too.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, that's true.

[Marc Stein]

They were definitely part of it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And so I think they're looking around. You know, they're.

[Marc Stein]

They're.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't even know what their record was. They're. They've been a playing team like three or four years in a row, but they had some significant injuries to their team, including, you know, their dynamic young wing, Jaylon Johnson. He missed a bunch of the earth, a shoulder injury. I think they looked around and said, hey, is there something we can do here? They were involved with Boston on Drew Holiday. They didn't get that deal done, but then they get a deal done with Boston. And so considering what the Trailblazers sent for Drew Holiday, what they sent. They sent the 22nd pick in this draft. They already have a lottery pick, right. They got, like, the 13th pick.

[Marc Stein]

They have the 13th pick, which they have from Sacramento, from the Kevin Herder trade years ago. Obviously, their Pick was the 14th pick, which went to the spurs as part of the Dejounte Marie, the first Dejante Murray trade. And then they had the 22nd pick from. Which was the Lakers pick from back in the.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is the last piece of the.

[Marc Stein]

Anthony Davis last piece, the Anthony Davis trade. And also was part of the second Dejounte Murray trade, where Dyson Daniels and that pick came over last year. And look at the way to look at this.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Can I pause you right there for a second?

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

When that Dejounte Murray trade happened a year ago, almost like a year ago right now, the return for Dejounte Murray was sort of deemed a little tepid. However, not by.

[Marc Stein]

Not by some people.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Whatever. Dyson Daniels has become an all defensive team player in the league and now they've used, you know, basically the remnants of this to also acquire Chris Apps Porzingis. So now Porzingis's health is obviously paramount, but if I told you that they traded for an all defensive team player and Praps Porzingis for Dyson, for Dejante Murray, you'd feel a little different about it. So I'll just point that out.

[Marc Stein]

Well, and they use that pick. I mean, again, Boston didn't get that pick. One other very quick thing on the Nets. Nets now have five first round picks in Wednesday's draft. Four of them after the 19th selection, three in the 20s. They got the 19th pick to take on Terrence Mann. They have a ton of cap space this summer, so they still have over 30 million even after that.

[Tim Bontemps]

They got the just for housekeeping. They got the 22nd pick to take on Terrence Mann. Picks 19 and 26 they got from the Knicks for Mikhail Bridges.

[Marc Stein]

Right. So they have, they have five picks in the first round there. It seems unlikely they will draft five players. So it'll be interesting to see what they do. But yeah, look, you know, Boston ended up, I think, swapping to a better second. They got Cleveland second and gave up a bad second to get off Porzingis and take on the Yang, save him a whole ton of money. If you're Atlanta like you come out of this, you've got, you know, assuming Jalen Johnson's healthy, they're starting five as of this morning. Trey Young, Dyson Daniels, Zachary Rishi say last year's number one overall pick, Jalen Conglow. Four big, long, athletic defensive guys with some, some of them with varying offensive ability around Trey Young. Now you had Christoph Zingis, who last year shot 41% from three, has refined his game. Quinn Snyder certainly is going to find ways to take advantage of him offensively. Like I really like to fit there. And at the cost of the 22nd pick and getting off this future money for Terrence Mann, which is pretty negative money on their books. They don't have any bad money going forward. They've got clean books. Jalen Johnson's on a really good extension. We'll see what happens with Dyson Daniels this summer. He's got some interesting extension negotiations. Trae Young with a player option for the 26, 27 season. Super interesting extension negotiations for him this summer. We'll see what happens there.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I'd be stunned if he gets offered enough that he wants to take.

[Marc Stein]

It but, well, it depends, I think, on what he decides his market is like. I don't know if there's going to be a super frothy market for Trae Young next summer and there could be some value would lock it in at a lower number long term with the only team he's ever played for because there is, it is a decent fit for him there, roster wise.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it's. I'm not saying they want to get rid of him. I just say they don't necessarily want to pay him the max.

[Marc Stein]

No, I'm agreeing with you. I think it could, it could make sense on both sides to sign something lower. We'll see where it lands. But I. Atlanta's in a pretty interesting spot and when you look at all these teams in the east that battle these injuries like the Hawks, who have been kind of floating in a. An in between spot, like I think giving up the 22nd pick to get off a man and get Porzingis while having a lottery pick, it's pretty good business for them.

[Tim Bontemps]

Also, they don't have control of their next two drafts because of the Dejante Murray trade, acquiring him with San Antonio. So they're, they're incentivized to try to hit the gas a little bit and they still didn't harm their long term flexibility. I am told that they had not negotiated an extension with Porzingis. So he's on the last year of his contract. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Also, they gotta check out Porzingis because if you remember, he had that illness. I don't know, it was a virus or whatever. And the last I heard from him, I was with you Bon Temps, in the Celtics locker room after they lost game six to the Knicks. He was like, I'm going to go to the beach and hope that resetting my body makes me feel better. So I don't know. I would check on that. I'm sure they did before they did this trade.

[Marc Stein]

He also said he was planning on playing in Euro basketball with Latvia. So I mean, there's reasons for optimism. But look, he's also on an expiring deal. So, you know, they get out of this Terrence man money, which was not good. That was truly a negative deal around the league. And you know, look, I think it's an interesting upside swing for them. Porzingis is another guy. If he's healthy, they could potentially get him on a pretty good extension going forward. And you know, like suddenly the Hawks have some optimism, I think, and are in an interesting spot. After not too long ago, like a year ago this time you're looking at him saying, man, they got these two point guards. Where are they going? What are they doing now? Things look a lot different.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jalen Johnson is a dynamic player. Risha Shea had a very good second half. Dyson Daniels was a revelation. They just traded for Porzingis. Trey Young is an all star level player and they got a lottery pick and they, and they have a lottery pick and they have not damaged like they're, they're not like headed for the second apron or anything unless they give Trey the max.

[Brian Windhorst]

But by the way, Dingus on his Instagram stories today said thanks for all the support and questions about my health. I've been feeling excellent all off season and looking forward to a healthy and strong European championship tournament with my national team. That was well before the trade. I'm, you know, he might have known the trade was in the works at that point. But look, when you have Trae Young, you know, you've got a guy who's an elite offensive engine that needs to be protected immensely on the defensive end. They've put together a group around him. Daniel's one of the best on ball defenders in the league. Johnson, Reese, Sachet, there's some length and athleticism at the forward spots. A Congu is very solid defensive player. Porzingis, one of the better rim protectors in the league and in an east that's wide open. I think the Hawks, after kind of being a perpetual playing team, at least qualifying as intriguing going into next season.

[Marc Stein]

Well, and they've also got some, to Brian's point, I mean they've still got some flexibility to potentially go add another decent sized piece this summer maybe if they position things right. So yeah, it's, it's, you know, they're, they're in an interesting spot and all this movement I think just portends what's going to be a very active day Wednesday and a very active offseason from a trade standpoint where there's not a lot of salary cap space and now there's less because the Nets got Terrence Manny. But you got a lot of teams, especially with these injuries, are going to be looking to potentially move pieces around and figure out where they're at. And you know, I think there's a lot of fireworks ahead.

[Brian Windhorst]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Tim Bontemps]

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[Jonathan Gavoni]

In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones.

[Marc Stein]

We'Ve been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Be passed to him. He's taking it for himself.

[Marc Stein]

He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

You can't stop my drive.

[Kevin Pelton]

Now joined by Jonathan Gavoni of Draft Express for a long time because he founded it and it's still an iconic brand in the NBA draft world. And of course our drafts reporter and analyst here at espn. Jonathan I don't know how much sleep you're going to be getting this week, but this is, this is what you spend years getting ready for.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah, I mean, the work has mostly been done, but you know, there's some, some changes that could happen here with potential trades. I'm sure we'll talk about them and there's definitely some drama at the top, but this is the best time of year and so I love it.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah. So Cooper, there's no drama at number one. Cooper Flag is going number one. He'll be a Dallas Maverick. There's been a lot discussed about Cooper Flagg. Let me ask you this, Jonathan. How long ago did you know the Cooper Flag was going to be the number one pick?

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Well, the first time I saw him was three years ago at the Under 17 World cup in Malaga and he was 15 years old at the time, playing up by two years. And just his performance in the finals against Spain, against Hugo Gonzalez and Adai Mara was absolutely spectacular. Just the things that he was doing defensively though, just the level of intensity that he brought, the physicality. You know, usually guys who are 15 playing up two years are, you know, they're a little meek at that stage and. But he was like he was best player on the floor and it started to become evident already then that this guy has a chance to be an absolutely special player. And just the progression that he's made since with his offensive ability, you know, he's really, he was playing the five back then and he was just like incredible defender who was switching one through five and rotating for blocks and getting in passing lanes and getting every rebound and finding ways to score like in ways that guys usually do at the youth level and transition and off the offensive glass and cutting and. But just the way that he's improved since with his shooting and his ball handling and his passing is remarkable. And especially in, in season like since he turned 18, you know, in December, just he was on this absolute heater as a shooter and the Duke put the ball in his hands. He was playing pick and roll, was the best player in college basketball, which, you know, which absolutely cannot be understated for a guy who should have been still a senior in high school. It's a major transition to make, you know, even for a 19 year old high school senior, let alone a 17 year old. So he's absolutely a special player and I expect him to be an all star and a franchise player and maybe a guy that, you know is even able to reach higher than that. People know me, I'm not, I Don't like to, to gush about players. I don't like to put insane expectations, talk about hall of Fame and all that. But like he has everything that you look for from a player that age to be an all NBA guy. And more than that.

[Kevin Pelton]

Well, for a guy who's 18 years old, he has very good bulk. You know, so many times we see really talented guys and obviously he'll still develop, he'll still physically develop. But you know, sometimes you see guys, you're like, well he's going to come into the NBA and get pushed around. Like you just see it and I mean there will be nights, I'm sure, where Cooper flags has to learn what the physicality of the league is. But you know, he's 220. I think he's what he weighed and you know that's he'll get stronger. But when I look at him, I say that's a guy who will not be physically dominated in the NBA, which so many 18 year olds are.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah, no, no question about it. He's got a great frame that is going to continue to grow. And you know, he's actually like, he's grown in stature over the last year. He's added almost an inch here. He's added 12 pounds like you said, he's 221 pounds. He might not be done growing, which is pretty scary for everybody, you know, in that Southwest Division with, with the Dallas Mavericks.

[Kevin Pelton]

Okay, so you've had Dylan Harper solidly too for a long time. What is the most important thing for somebody who's just now turning their eyes to the draft to know about Dylan Harper?

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah, I mean since the playoffs have started, I think that Dylan Harper's stock is only increased. I just think about that opening round between the Pistons and the Knicks and you just see the level of physicality that was on display on both ends of the floor is how much of a war it is in terms of like having a guy who is big and strong and can get to the rim and take hits and play through contact and draw fouls, finish at the rim, but also find teammates on the move. That's Dylan Harper and that's. And that's what he brings is, you know, there are some comps to guys like, like James Harden, like Cade Cunningham. That is the level of, of shot creator that Dylan Harper could become. And, and I think with NBA spacing with better teammates around him, I think we're going to see more in terms of him as a passer also things that we saw in flashes. Duffy this year at R. But his feel for the game and the way that he embraces contact and physicality and just the way that he's able to finish with creativity and the way that you can get to spots on the floor, every team in the NBA is looking for that right now. And that's why Dylan Harper has a very high floor, but also a tremendous ceiling. And you talk to people, you know, that have spoken with San Antonio even before the lottery, they've been in love with this guy for a very long time. And they, you know, the moment that they got that number two pick, there wasn't even a thought there about entertaining trades, about looking at other prospects. They haven't worked anybody else out for that number two pick. It's just been Dylan Harper.

[Kevin Pelton]

I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, you brought that up. Go ahead.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

People are saying, like, well, de' Aaron Fox, Stefan Castle, you know, you need shooting around Victor, which is all true, but they're saying, guys, we are in this for the long haul. We're looking to build long term, and you need an all star caliber guy alongside Victor, you know, like to handle the ball and take pressure off him and all that. And so I, you know, that's why, you know, people are. You've seen some speculation online, like, oh, they're entertaining trades and all that. Yeah. People behind them would like to. People have been calling about that number two pick, but I don't think there's ever been a moment where the spurs have, you know, even entertained the idea of drafting anybody other than Dylan Harper at 2.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, I think there was an idea that, like, well, maybe if Giannis was available, sure. That that number two pick would come into play. Giannis has not been available.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pelton]

You know, future hall of Famers, like, knocking on their door saying, trade me there.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Right.

[Kevin Pelton]

You know, you know, you know, Jonathan, obviously you and I spent a lot of time getting to know Victor Wembanyama you even longer. And I was the one, you know, a year ago saying, somebody is going to want to get themselves to San Antonio to be aligned with this guy. It turned out de' Aaron Fox got there first. But here's the spurs in position where Kevin. And by the way, not only was Kevin Durant knocking on their door, the spurs could have done that deal. The spurs could have made a Kevin Durant deal.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Sure.

[Kevin Pelton]

And them saying, you know, with all due respect, no, we want this guy more. And I think that's important to. Because we're going to talk about Ace Bailey in a minute and I think a lot of people, for better or worse, especially who haven't been following your coverage, may connect Ace Bailey, Dylan Harper a little bit because they both played at Rutgers and Rutgers underachieved this year. And Dylan Harper has been the story of the, of the, of the draft lead up. But as you said, Dylan Harper's stock has only grown. The spurs have only locked into that despite their depth on the perimeter and despite, you know, the interest from other players. So I do think that that's, that's relevant. Okay, so the number three spot in your mock has been where you spend a lot of time. I'm sure the time you've had discussing with executives and scouts. Let's, let's tell us who you have on your list as number three and then who you have at your mock as number three, because that's where this is, that's where the draft really starts.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah, I've had, I have Ace Bailey third on my big board, but I have DJ Edgecomb going there in my mock draft. I don't necessarily, I'm not sure that this decision has been made from Philadelphia. Even yesterday, Saturday, it sounds like they were in all day meetings trying to figure out what direction to take. You know, now you're hearing, oh, maybe they, you know, they might entertain, you know, trade possibilities. I'm not sure that, you know, if how much like ownership, for example, be excited about that. But yeah, I think that's going to be. That's where the draft starts, like we've Talked about at 3. Ace Bailey's decision not to work out there, to schedule a workout and then cancel Defi threw a wrench in their plans. Vijay Edgecombe may have been ahead of Ace Bailey already. Before that, you heard a lot of positivity coming out of Vijay Edgecomb's workout. Not necessarily in terms of what he showed on the court. I heard that he was very nervous. The very unnatural setting, that one on zero setting. But just the. I mean, I think what resonates more is the meeting, you know, like the dinners and the breakfast and getting to, you know, meet with guys like Tyrese Maxey and ownership and all that in the front office. I mean, I think that's what people really care about more with those visits and Ace Bailey deciding, you know, to bail on that entirely definitely puts, you know, Philadelphia in a tough position because Daryl Morey, the kind of guy who could still draft Ace Bailey third. But this is a tough season that they're coming off of and there's, you know, a lot of questions about Embiid long term with his knee, which, by the way, there is some positivity that we're hearing around, you know, Embiid's availability, but still, Paul George's contract, a lot of people think that might be the worst contract in the NBA right now, along with Bradley Beal. And so you draft a guy who doesn't want to be there, and if it doesn't work out, if it doesn't start off, you know, on the best light, that puts a lot of pressure on you as a front office. And so. And there's. There's quite a few people in the NBA who think DJ Edgecombe is a better prospect. Regardless, it's not a big gap between three and four. Vijay is fourth on my big board. So, yeah, I mean, it's going to be a really interesting decision to see what they do. You know, they take Edgecomb, do they take Bailey, do they trade down? I think all those possibilities are still in play right now.

[Kevin Pelton]

So what do you like, what do you like about Edgecombe?

[Jonathan Gavoni]

And, you know, as a player, just the explosiveness. I mean, just first of all, the, the trajectory that he's on. He played his high school basketball in Long island, so I've been able to watch him here for over the last two, three years, really get a. He was really just a defender early on in his career. He was even. Was even ranked in the top 100 the first time that I saw him. But it just the intensity that he brings, just the defensive versatility, that toughness, that edge and. But his ball skills have gotten significantly better. He's become a guy that you could legitimately see playing point guard at some stage in his career. The. I think what already sold people was what we saw from him in the Bahamas national team this past summer, playing in the FIBA Olympic qualifying tournament against Spain, against Poland, he was playing point guard alongside Buddy Hield, Eric Gordon, deandre Ayton. He was the best player on the floor. Floor. When you have that level of explosiveness, you. Where you can get to anywhere you want on the court. When you're that dynamic in transition, and the type of shooting that he showed in the Big 12 in flashes, it wasn't consistent. But the upside with, with Vijay Edgecombe is. Is through the roof. Now, again, shades of Dylan Harper situation in San Antonio. How does Vijay Edgecombe fit on that roster with Tyrese Maxey, with Jared McCain, with Quentin Grimes? You know, I think in Vijay Edgecomb's mind, at least in his camp's mind, having that Runway to play on the Ball and to develop into a guy that can be a point guard, I think is going to be important for him. How much room is he going to have there to explore that on. You know what I mean? This is a team that was projected to contend for a championship this past season, and so there's going to be certain amount of pressure on him. But I think everybody that's drafting at the top, I think you really have to throw fit out the window. You have to take the guy who's going to be the best player five years from now. Rosters change, but, you know, like, when you do a redraft, you want to feel like you drafted the guy who is the best available talent at that slot, regardless of position. And. And I think that feels like that's the way that Philadelphia is leading right now, that Vijay Edgecombe is that guy at three.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah. So you talked about last summer, obviously last summer when Cooper Flagg played in the Team USA select team. That was actually a big moment. So that was. That was a big thing. Joyce Bailey, Jonathan. Do you. How much of it do you think is a strategy and how much of it do you think is a mistake? The way his.

[Tim Bontemps]

His.

[Kevin Pelton]

His process has gone, I think it's.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

A clear strategy, and I think it's not that unique, honestly. We saw this last year with Alex Saar basically trying to maneuver himself to Washington at 2, passing up a workout with Atlanta. It was more tastefully done, it feels like. I mean, just the scheduling and the canceling, I think that, you know, that maybe may have rubbed some people the wrong way. But every agent in this business is looking to position their client to get to that second contract and to reach their full potential as a player, which ideally involves minutes, a role, shots, you know, development. You know, you look at, like, Reed shepherd, he was drafted third last year to a situation not all that different than Philadelphia right now. Was barely able to get on the court for Houston. The guy drafted behind him, Steph Castle, you know, became rookie of the year. And so obviously, it's way too early to write off Reed Shepherd. I think he's still going to have a very good NBA career, but that's a situation that a lot. So a lot of agents are following what's going on right now with Ace Bailey and saying, you know, there might be a method to the madness here, where if Ace Bailey has a preferred destination in mind, be it Washington at 6 or New Orleans at 7 or Brooklyn at 8, there's a lot more opportunity there in those back courts than in Philadelphia at three or even Charlotte at four with LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller. So I don't, I don't think that, you know, the, the criticism that we're hearing for a spade, I think may be a little bit over the top because this is something that we see every year. And in the past, agents used to be able to hide the medical, you know, and really be a little bit more forceful in saying, like, do not draft my client here. You're not, you know, we're not going to give you the. And the medical part was scary. Now they've changed the rules and every team in the lottery is getting access to the medical. So it makes it a little bit harder to pull this off. But if Ace Bailey is able to get himself drafted to Washington at 6 and we find out that that's where he wanted to be all along, then Ace Bell's agent did well for his client. If it obviously works out, you could say, I mean, Utah, I mean, I think that's a good situation. I think that I don't quite understand why they don't like Utah with the coaching staff there, the fan base there, the opportunity on the perimeter. But I mean, to each his own. I mean, geographic geography plays a big role in this too. So what do you think about this, Brian?

[Kevin Pelton]

Well, I. So I think if you look, first off, talking about the second contract when you haven't played a minute and you didn't have a killer college year, it's a little bit of a turn off to me. However, what you said is all accurate. Like if you are an agent and you want your player to be not. Because like, here's what's happened. What's happened is in this top three picks, the teams that got ended up in the top three are all teams that are more built out than your typical top three, right? Dallas is more built out. Now, granted, Kyrie is hurt. Obviously San Antonio has had the last two rookies of the year and they have some other veterans, you know, with, with starting jobs. You know, Vassell and Harrison Barnes are starters. I mean, they made not be starters when the season starts, but they're in the starters role right now. Obviously Philadelphia is in a complete anomaly to have the third pick. And so I kind of get that. I kind of get you're looking and saying, man, my guy could be the franchise player, my guy could wake up as the franchise player in Brooklyn because, you know, Brooklyn sitting there at the eighth pick and, you know, they don't think they can have a chance to draft a talent like this. Like, it's, you know, they could help maneuver. And the guy has to take, you know, a couple of weeks of bad headlines to maneuver himself to Brooklyn.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pelton]

Or where you've got him in the mock right now, which we haven't quite got there. But you mentioned Washington. You've got Ace Bailey. Washington. Washington doesn't have a franchise player right now. Now maybe Alex Saar will have, you know, he had a good finish to his rookie year. Maybe a year from now, we'll say Alex Saar is their franchise player, but.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

He'S always going to be on the defensive side, though. It's not going to be a guy who's creating his own shot who's, you know, averaging 20, 25 points a game, like Ace Bailey could potentially become if he hits.

[Kevin Pelton]

So what I'm basically saying is I don't like it, but I kind of get it.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Right.

[Kevin Pelton]

But, you know, there's this stuff around Bailey. Like, you know, he was listed at 6, 10, and he comes in and he measures at 6, 7 and a half. I don't know whether you care about.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

That barefoot, you know, that's, you know, in shoes, he's six, nine. He's got great stuff. Size, he's an inch shorter than.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, right.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I'm just saying there's all these.

[Kevin Pelton]

Things about him that, like.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Right.

[Kevin Pelton]

You know, that teams would, you know, kind of put down as a red mark on their. On their board. So. But I've called him like the. Now, this is your world. But every year, or, you know, maybe.

[Tim Bontemps]

There'S one or two.

[Kevin Pelton]

There's a dangerous player in the draft because they're dangerous, not because drafting them is bad. They're dangerous just because if you pass on them, you could have egg all over your face. You get fired for passing on. Like, this is a situation with Luka Doncic.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Kevin Pelton]

Not that I'm comparing Ace Billy to Luka Doncic. Three teams said no to Luca.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Right.

[Kevin Pelton]

Potentially even more. And those guys, it's on their records forever.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pelton]

Like Vladi divots. Well, his, his, his executive visit is. By the way, Vladi was in a motorcycle accident with Passmar. Best Vladi passing on Luca is. Defined his era. You know, passing on a guy. Obviously, you take a guy especially. Correct. Obviously, you take a guy that's a bust, and that's a problem. So that's the thing. Here's a guy who's got some red marks on the sheet. You take him, he ends up being a bust. That's bad. You pass on him, and he goes to Brooklyn and wins rookie of the year and averages 27 points as rookie year. Yeah, the teams that pass on him look bad. So that's why I think he's the most dangerous prospect in the draft. Not that that's a bad thing. It sort of goes both ways.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Kevin Pelton]

And a lot of it's just from listening to you about him. I'm not, you know, this is not, this is just my perception from learning from you. All right, now let's talk about a guy that you've been. You Obviously I knew, you know, Khan Knipple was, if, you know he goes to Duke as a, as a five star recruit, certainly was a ticket as a lottery pick. But when we start talking about these guys early in the season you were extremely high on Khan and you have remained there and he is, he has gone up the boards. I don't know where he was on your mock at the start of the season, but now you got him fourth going to Charlotte.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

I mean he was like seven or eight. But a lot of that was because I went to preseason practices. You know, I saw a scrimmage and just talking to John Shire the entire year leading up to Khan enrolling at Duke, he was like, man, keep your eye on con. Keep your on con. Keep your on con. This guy is way underrated. You know, like he's, he was saying he's cut from the same cloth as like a Reed shepherd just in terms of his feel for the game, his competitiveness, the versatility. But he's 6 foot 7. And so, I mean that Reed shepherd was 6 foot 7, he may have, probably would have been the number one pick in the draft last year. And so he, I mean he had so much belief in him. And that was part of, part of the, I mean I went to do an interview with Cooper Flag, the only one on one that he did all year and, but I was able to watch Khan scrimmage and he absolutely dominated that scrimmage, even more so than Cooper Flag. And I was like, this guy's, you know, easy top 10 pick, maybe top five. And so. And you know, he just grew and grew as the year moved on. And similar to Cooper, like the coaching staff put the ball in his hands, let him play pick and roll, let him show his, you know, his playmaking ability, his feel for the game, the way he plays off two feet and then he's a movement shooter, he's an outdoor, outstanding spot up shooter. He brings toughness. He's a great teammate. He's on selfish. So I think already In October, I was saying this guy could be Klay Thompson, you know, and.

[Kevin Pelton]

And yes, I remember it quite well when you said that.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's. And right now it's looking like he's going to get drafted probably fourth or fifth.

[Kevin Pelton]

And so you feel. Do you feel there's that. Charlotte's probably pretty settled on that. Unless somebody like jumps ahead of them.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

And I think that they're still making up their mind. I think there are several guys. I mean, they haven't totally ruled out the idea of drafting Ace Bailey. I think Jeremiah Fears, even though he hasn't worked out for them, is someone that they're definitely considering. Trey Johnson could fit very nicely into their. Into their roster. But, you know, just you look at Khan and, you know, his fit with Lamelo Ball, with Brandon Miller, you look at just the feel for the game, the ability to, you know, be a guy that can be the face of your franchise. You put him in front of, you know, every practice, press conferences.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah. Don't underestimate taking a Duke guy in Charlotte.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Like, absolutely.

[Kevin Pelton]

Not that that would be the driving.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Force, but yeah, their owner and the fan base. Exactly. Yeah, that would be. That would be very exciting for them, I'm sure. So I think there's a lot of smoke pointing to Khan, but I don't think that they've made up their mind either way. And again, I think we could see some movement here, you know, like in that 3 through 8 range. And, you know, I don't think that like a team outside the top eight moves into the top eight, but I could really see some musical chairs being played here between those teams between three and eight, especially with the Ace Barry situation.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, that's true. So number five, which is Utah, we have a brand new lead executive there, Austin Ange. Although his father Danny and Justin Zanuck long entrenched there, it's not like he replaced anybody. This is a one that's moved around in your mock, and I'm not even sure where you will be on draft night. Your mock could change several times. So reading Utah seems to be a challenge. This is going to be where mock drafts could go sideways here.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah, a lot of it is because the Ace Berry situation, you know, like, if he ends up going, he doesn't want to be a 3, 4 or 5, and so do people respect his wishes and does he end up going behind Utah? And that means we're introducing like a new group of players here at 4 and 5, and that's where a lot of the uncertainty has come from. And you know, how do they value the guys on their roster? They've drafted a lot the past few years. Doesn't feel like any of those guys are really long term keepers, like surefire guys. You feel like, I don't know, their.

[Kevin Pelton]

Franchise player right now is, is Larry Markkanen. And that's not producing that, that alignment is not producing greatness.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Right, right. So you know, how married will Austin Ainge be to Keonta George or Isaiah Collier? I would think not at all. You know, that's. We have Jeremiah Fears there at five. I mean that would raise some, some eyebrows because they drafted point guards the last two years and so now you're drafting a third one on top of them. And so, I mean there's some thought about Trey Johnson here obviously. I mean, I'm sure they're going to look at the ace belly situation too. I don't think. I mean, Austin Ains gives damn, you know, like whether anybody wants to be there or not. If he thinks he's the guy, he'll take Utah.

[Kevin Pelton]

You can't run the Jazz and worry.

[Tim Bontemps]

About whether a guy wants to be there.

[Kevin Pelton]

You'll never get anywhere. I mean, that's just.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

And once he gets there, he'll be like this place. Beautiful. This fan base is insane. You know, like they love this team. This coaching staff is incredible. And so, I mean, I'm sure you get over it very, very quickly because there's a lot. It's a big Runway there too. They, they need a star in the worst way also.

[Kevin Pelton]

I mean, and allegedly they're trying to win. So we'll see. I mean, you know, they have, they've been taking for three years. Of course they're trying to win, but they could actually do some things to upgrade the roster here in this summer. Okay, you mentioned Jeremiah Fears. This is a guy point guard out of Oklahoma. He has been a riser. You think there's a possibility he could go in the top five? What about Jeremiah Fears? Has him going up the draft boards in your mocks.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Just, you know, 6 foot 4, can get anywhere he wants on the court. Tremendous ball handler, tremendous pace, gets to his spots, can find guys, finishes with both hands. 18 years old, doesn't turn 19 until October. You know, he made a late decision to reclassify. You know, was one of the youngest players in college basketball but had a great season at Oklahoma. You know, playing in the toughest conference in college basketball in the sec. Led them to the, to the NCAA tournament, had, you know, some incredible Games in the SEC tournament and the NCAA tournament against uconni was fantastic. And so, you know, that kind of really dynamic shot creating guard who can get to his spots on the floor, play pick and roll, score as well. Those guys are not easy to come by, you know, and so it might take him some time because his frame is still filling out, his defense is just okay right now. His shooting is streaky. But if you're projecting out, you know, three to five years, Jeremiah Fierce could absolutely be one of the best players in this draft.

[Kevin Pelton]

You have these guys in 5, 6, 7. There's a lot of potential fluidity there. Do you think Washington passes on Ace Bailey if he's there at 6?

[Jonathan Gavoni]

I would be surprised if they did.

[Kevin Pelton]

I would agree. And at 7, you and Jeremy Wu have talked about how The Pelicans at 7 are in an advantageous position because they're almost assured of how. Because you mentioned Trey Johnson, he could still be there. People like watch, yes, the pick, the seventh pick is not a terrible place to be for New Orleans because there's almost assuredly going to be a guy there of, you know, the picks are hard to pick there because the talent level is equal. They, they're pick is farther down, but they may not, they may be in a decent spot.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

But what if they decide we love Ace Bailey and they say here's seven and 23 and something and let's move up to five, you know, and then.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, they picked up Indiana's first round.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Pick last week and then so they move ahead of Washington, they take Ace Bailey and then, you know, they're. And, and then Utah is still, I mean, I don't know how many picks Utah already needs, to be honest with you, you know, but is there somebody on Utah's roster that they like? Sorry, a New Orleans roster. I'm obviously Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, those guys are probably aren't going anywhere. But yeah, I mean, that's where I, I think you could see these musical chairs being played, you know, at this part of the draft.

[Kevin Pelton]

Okay. You mentioned Kaman Mali. Watch out of Duke, the center. Very rarely do I be able to say I saw a guy two years before he got to the draft. I remember talking to you about, come on. When I saw the South Sudanese team play in the World cup in 2023. He's come a long way since then. Obviously a lot of people saw him play at Duke. You've got him to Brooklyn right now at 8. By the time this pod comes out, there could be changes. But what do you think about common. I actually, I didn't think he was going to be a top 10 pick when I saw him two years ago, but he's gotten a lot.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

That's exactly right. He's gotten so much better. The first time I saw. Come on. Was four years ago at the NBA academy games in Mexico. He was scrawny, he was uncoordinated. I mean, he could barely chew gum and run at the same time. And his skill level was bad. He couldn't catch the ball, he couldn't finish. He was unathletic. And just to see the way that he's improved year after year, what he's done with his body, what he's done with his skill level, what he's done with his mobility, just the impact that he had this year. Defensively, Duke was one of the best defensive teams in the country, and a lot of it was because of Cooper flag, but obviously a lot of it was because of Kaman Molovaj anchoring the paint being this huge deterrent. Teams wouldn't even drive into the paint because he's so long, 77 wingspan, 9 6, standing reach. But he's not just a guy that just parks under the rim with his arms up. He can also, he can hedge out to the perimeter. He can show really hard. He can switch and slide his feet. And the scary part about Kaman is that he hasn't been playing basketball for that long. And so what is he going to be three or four years from now? People talk about his character, his work ethic, you know, just what he brings to every room, how he lights it up, how he's beloved by coaches and by teammates. You look at the NBA finals right now, you need that kind of rim protector inside. You know, Chet Holmgren for okc, Miles Turner for Indiana. And I mean, you go and watch him work out, you're seeing him drain three after three. The touch that, the way the ball comes out of his hand, it gets you excited and you really start to wonder, you know, like, how high could this guy's upside be? And I mean, so that's why, come on model, which is going to. To get picked in the top 10. And it might end up being, you know, like, you know, we're like seven or eight. I know New Orleans is looking really hard at him. I know Brooklyn's little a looking very hard at him. Is there some movement here in this stage of the draft? And so I think, come on, Malawi is going to be a very, very good NBA player.

[Kevin Pelton]

Let me just ask you before we go if there's one other guy in the, in the lottery of the draft who's a Gavoni favorite, who you really like, who is another guy that, that you would want to mention even if he's not a top 10 pick.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

Yeah, I mean I would say Casperus Yakuchonis is somebody that people have kind of forgotten about a little bit in this process. 6 foot 6, great pick and roll player, makes every read out of ball screens, has great frame, great toughness about him, shot making prowess. I've, you know, there are strides that Kaspers Yakuchonis has made over the past few years has been astounding. And I think that, you know, the ability to play 1, 2, 3, you could put him onto pretty much any roster in the NBA is going to find a way to add value. So I think he's going to be, you know, someone that comes off the board pretty quickly, you know, like in this 9 through and say 12 range it feels like. And he's going to be a guy that's, you know, maybe not the most explosive play around. You know, kind of finished off the year a little bit of a, of a, of a, not, not a great note in terms of the turnovers and he got beaten up really in the Big ten. But I think Casper Secretion is going to be an outstanding NBA player long term.

[Kevin Pelton]

Another interesting point guard of good size that you've got on top of this draft and because there's a lot of them, maybe he slipped back because of it, but. All right, Jonathan, we literally just a fraction, literally a fraction of what you provided insight. Good luck with all of the demands that you have this week. I'll see you in Brooklyn later this week. Thank you for spending some time with us and helping our listeners get smarter ahead of this draft, including me.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

And we'll talk to you soon, of course, my pleasure. Great to be with you.

[Brian Windhorst]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Kevin Pelton]

In 1979, the first words spoken on ESPN weren't just an announcement.

[Brian Windhorst]

If you're a fan, they were a sports prophecy.

[Tim Bontemps]

What you'll see in the next minutes, hours and days to follow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Glad you're with us tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

May convince you you've been gone to sports heaven and right now you're standing on the edge of tomorrow.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

This fall, the next era of ESPN begins sports forever.

[Tim Bontemps]

Thank you to Jonathan Gavoni business for the Dallas Mavericks today as he was within a couple hours of the deadline of his player option. McMahon, Kyrie Irving agrees to a new deal, opts out of his contract as he recovers from his torn acl, agrees to a new deal with the Celtics. I've been a Celtic for a long time with the Mavericks. Three years, 114 million. The last year of that. 119.

[Brian Windhorst]

119.

[Tim Bontemps]

119 million. The last year of it is a player option. McMahon, what are we to make of this?

[Brian Windhorst]

Very good news for the Mavericks. A very good development. Certainly earlier in the day, perhaps even when we podcasted earlier, the anticipation was that Kyrie was going to opt in, which would not have been good news for the Mavericks because when a player of that stature ops in it means they didn't get anything done on a long term deal. And it sounds weird, but an opt in means that that relationship's probably not going to last a whole lot longer. But there was middle ground that was.

[Tim Bontemps]

That'S what happened on his last deal. He opted in with the Nets and it was like an indication he ain't going to be there for very long. And eventually got traded to the Mavericks.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. And there was middle ground reached here. Now look, before Kyrie had the knee injury, the anticipation was this would be more like a 3 or $150 million deal where things got sticky. Aside from simply the fact that this is a guard in his 30s coming off a torn ACL, where things really got sticky is the clearest path to the Mavericks acquiring a fill in for him for the first half or so of the season that he's going to have to miss a guy who can start at point guard and then transition into a six man type of role. The clearest path is their taxpayer mid level. And so they had to get Kyrie. I think this is like the tip top of the range that they could sign Kyrie to and preserve that taxpayer mid level, you know, not be a second apron team where that thing goes poof. And so, you know, I mean, we'll see what they're able to do with it. You know, there's candidates out there, same kind of candidates, by the way, that the Bucks will be going after guys like Dennis Schroeder. We'll see if, you know, he might end up staying in Detroit. I think there's certainly interest there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. By the way, Detroit, who was a team that we wondered whether or not how aggressive they would be because they looked at some other teams in the east who were dealing with injuries and they have caps lock flexibility and they're an ascendant team. Their team president, Trajan Langdon said today he does not plan to be aggressive in this off season and hopes to keep the team relatively stable. Now, he's not, he's under, he's not under obligation to file through with that, but that would indicate that Detroit wants to resign a guy. Dennis Schroeder resign. A guy like Malik Beasley, maybe Resign Tim Hardaway Jr. I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

But they made a massive leap last year. So that, that makes some sense. But Dennis Schroeder, Chris Paul, Malcolm Brogdon, d' Angelo Russell, Tyus Jones, that's the kind of pool that, that you're looking at there. But I mean, the, the most important thing here is what could have been a messy situation if Kyrie's opting in and then it's like, oh, how temporary is this? It's not messy. You know, Kyrie, his stepmom and agent should tell you, Riley Irving, Nico Harrison of the Mavericks, they got something worked out that, you know, made sense for everybody involved. It's a three year deal. It's really, you know, it's a two plus one. He's aligned with Anthony Davis contractually. And you know, they're adding Cooper Flag to the mix. You know, obviously Cooper Flag is some.

[Tim Bontemps]

Needed good news for the Mavericks, quite frankly.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I mean, and on the heels of the Daniel Gafford extension, which I think was a very good deal for the Mavericks, and you know, they like having that depth and at center with Gafford and with. But it's three years, like 54 guarantee. There's trade kickers and all that. It's a quality starting center deal that is immensely tradable. Whether he can be traded.

[Marc Stein]

Tradable immediately, just which I think is an important distinction to add to now.

[Brian Windhorst]

I do think especially with them having this taxpayer mid level available, they really like the idea of having that depth. Derek Livery II is a heck of a young big. Unfortunately he has had durability issues for the first couple years of his career. You know, having that as a tag team alongside AD is, is that was Nico Harrison's defense wins championship vision. Now you're adding Cooper Flagg, who's a heck of a young defensive prospect in addition to being, you know, in the eyes of Jason Kidd, a potential Grant Hill type of point forward. You know, there's not good. Like the noise around the Mavericks has not, I'm not going to say been silenced, but been quieted. This Kyrie situation had a chance to be messy. It's not. That's great news for the Mavericks as they're bringing in this generational talent that they fell ass backwards into being able to Draft number one overall.

[Marc Stein]

Well and it's also worth pointing out that Sean Sweeney is left to go be with the San Antonio Spurs. God. Sham God likely is on his way off Jason Kid's staff.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sean Sweeney said it a little fast just to be Sean Sweeney their lead assistant.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. And listen that, that the coaching staff stuff's not great.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well hold on, just hold on. We talked too fast over that. Sean Sweeney lead assistant is leaving to go be Mitch Johnson's latest Johnson's associate.

[Brian Windhorst]

Head coach down in San Antonio. And look, that's a situation where the Mavericks didn't put up frankly enough of a fight to try to keep a guy who's been Jason Kidd's right hand man at every single stop of J. Kidd's head coaching career. The guy who has been coordinating both the offense and the defense for the Mavericks. The guy who you know twice was able to construct quality defenses around Luka Doncic which you know, obviously there's some challenges that that come along with that and Sweeney's going to be a head coach. You know my understands the Knicks have even sniffed around there. I don't think that that he's going to well merge as a candidate there.

[Tim Bontemps]

But just to be expedient here, the lead assistant left his secondary assistant Jared Dudley is reportedly leaving to join the Cavs and the development assistant, God, Sham God is significant is reportedly considering leaving as well. I don't know if that's a done deal.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah likely we'll end up with the Orlando Magic. And in the case of Sweeney, the Mavericks didn't make it a tough decision because he got a title promotion, he got a longer deal and he got significantly more money.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I'm just they've had three assistant coaches leave and Jason Kidd had some interest maybe more than some in the next job.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, Nick still don't have a coach and basically kids still didn't have a contract extension. So roster wise I think they've had a really good week. Hell a really good whatever month and change going back to the lottery coach and staff wise they've got some stuff to figure out.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. There was also a deal on Tuesday involving the Wizards and the Pelicans. Most significantly Jordan Poole still riding high on that max contract that he got from the warriors traded to New Orleans. CJ McCollum, former podcast guest who veteran obviously has a shorter contract than a shorter contract than a pool goes to to Washington real quick from Washington standpoint they by doing this have potentially given themselves a hunt. Well let me just tell you what the whole deal Jordan Pool, Sadiq Bay and the number 40 pick, you know, mid to SEC, early mid, early second round to New Orleans for CJ McCollum, Kelly Olenek and a future second round pick. But this move puts into the Wizards in position to have up to a hundred million dollars in salary cap space. I don't think the team's ever had $100 million in salary cap space for the summer of 26. I'm not sure what they're going to do with it. They could do 50 different things between now and then.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and they also have the reason they have that they have that kind of money in the expiring contract. So they can, they can be aggressive or opportunistic leading up to the deadline too.

[Tim Bontemps]

They have the number six pick in this draft and maybe that trade, maybe they have a good idea of who they're taking with the 6 pick and they made this deal to better position their team for that. It does open up since, since Jordan Poole is a high usage player, it does open up some time for their young guards like Bob Carrington, Bilal Kula Bali and Kaishan George.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now does it because I think C.J. mcCollum wants to play it. Probably Marcus Smart does too.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, we'll see. So really what happened was a year ago the Wizards were on pace to be the worst team point differential wise in NBA history. Yeah, just getting absolutely eviscerated and blown out every single night. And they have made three trades since that time to acquire Marcus Smart, Chris Middleton and now CJ McCollum all known for their leadership and character. And Middleton picked up his 33 million dollar player option this week, which was not a surprise. He's one of those expiring contracts keep an eye on, but seems like the Wizards. While I would like to get some more veterans in there to maybe inspire some higher competition level. But okay, McMahon, you were talking about the Pelicans.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was. I'm much more interested, I'm much more interested in the wizard side of this deal. Honestly, just because of what you laid out with the cap space. And again you can look at the free agency list next year and say okay, what are they doing this? The cap space can also be very, very useful in the trade market. You know, they've got a decent collection of young players. They'll add to that with number six pick. They'll add to that I assume with what will be another lottery pick next year. But you're at least starting to see the potential for this rebuilding thing to enter into a phase two for 26, 27. And honestly, the Pelicans side of it, I don't know, man. I'm, I'm not that intrigued by it.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, I mean, look, I, I think for New Orleans, I, I don't mind it for them. Like, that is not a free agency destination. And what Dejante Murray out for likely a big chunk of the season, if not all of it. He needed a point guard. Jordan Poole had pretty good stretches of play for Washington last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do you think he's a point guard?

[Marc Stein]

Well, he played point guard for them. Well, he played point guard for stretch for them last year and I thought he did fine with it. Now again, I'm not, I'm not trying to say the Pelicans are going to be lighting the world on fire, but they got a second round pick. They got Sadiq Bay, who was a guy who had offers, you know, well into the mid to high teens before he tore his ACL on an extension and he signed a very favorable deal. He's making $6 million the next couple of years. He's a guy that could potentially turn around if he looks like anything like he was before the injury and could either flip him in a deal or have him there long term. And, you know, I think turning C.J. mcCollum and Kelly Linnick, yes, two expiring contracts, but two guys that did not have any value really anywhere into a guy in Jordan Poole, who was a talented young player, and Bay, who's a good flyer. Like, I think that's fine business for them and they get a decent second out of it. Like, you know, I, I don't hate it.

[Brian Windhorst]

I just. I just think that it's going to be really, really tough for the Pelicans to. I mean, we talked about Portland really having an uphill climb to a play in spot. I, I think the Pelicans are in that same type of territory.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, I, I don't disagree. I just also think this deal makes some sense for where their team is at. Like, at least, at least Jordan Poole has a chance to grow with some of these younger guys they have on the team if it's a fit. Whereas CJ was not anything for them at this point.

[Jonathan Gavoni]

So.

[Marc Stein]

I get it. But yeah, look, Washington has been sort of treading water for a couple of years, obviously as they go through this rebuild and, you know, they're probably going to have a pretty rough record year again this year. We'll see who they draft. You know, certainly seems like there's at least some possibility that Ace Bailey winds up there, who, if he does, he's going to be a guy that's going to need time. And, you know, they're slowly adding a lot of interesting, long, athletic players, and they do have now an absolute ton of salary cap space. I mean, there's currently one guaranteed contract on their books for next year. And then they're going to pick up options that guys like Alex R. Koul, Bali and Carrington and stuff. But they've got $13 million that's guaranteed on their books for 20, 26, 27 at the moment. And that's it. So it's going to be interesting to see what directions they go in and if they can start to turn this thing in a different direction.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, welcome back to Hoop Collective. A couple of things. Remember July 12th, Saturday night in Vegas, first Saturday night of summer league at Brad Garrett's comedy club at the MGM grand are 3rd annual hoop collective live show. You can get [e-mail] all kinds of enjoyment there. We've got the Hoop Collective Draft special. I don't even know what the technical name of it is. That's just what I'm going to call it with the numbers on the board, folks. Maybe it's like a crossover. It's on YouTube during the first night of the draft. And afterwards we'll have a podcast as our traditional thing that we'll post on Thursday morning. A little bit out of, out of our rotation, but new. So a new Hoop collective pod with McMahon and Bontemps on Thursday morning. I don't like to play.

[Marc Stein]

Should be a busy. Should be a busy night. Should be a lot to talk about.

[Tim Bontemps]

Thanks for all of you, your support and your listening. And thank you to Jonathan Gavoni for giving us his insight on the draft. And. All right, that's all I'm gonna say. Talk to you guys later.

[Brian Windhorst]

Adios, amigos.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sa.