Brunson Magic, Big Game 7, Ant Has Arrived + Lakers’ Future

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective Episode: Brunson Magic, Big Game 7, Ant Has Arrived + Lakers’ Future
Release Date: May 2, 2025

---

1. Knicks' Resilience and Jalen Brunson's Clutch Performance

Brian Windhorst opens the discussion by highlighting a recurring trend in the playoffs where dominant teams often overlook emerging contenders. He remarks, “This happens every year. The teams that are most dominant get forgotten about because there are these middle-of-the-pack teams absolutely throwing haymakers at each other” (00:39).

The primary focus shifts to Jalen Brunson's exceptional performance for the New York Knicks. Windhorst expresses his amazement:

"It's just Jalen Brunson dribbling around and trying to find a crack against the Tsar Thompson. This is no way to play basketball." (01:20)

Despite the Knicks’ struggles, Brunson shines with a 40-point game-winning shot, drawing comparisons to iconic NBA moments. Kevin Pelton notes this achievement by stating,

"For Brunson to join that group, pretty incredible." (09:09)

Windhorst emphasizes Brunson's efficiency and clutch stats:

"He scored 27 points in the NBA advanced stats clutch definition during the first round. Carl Anthony Towns was second at 16." (10:43)

2. Asar Thompson Twins' Impact on the Series

The Thompson twins, Asar and Sar Thompson, receive commendations for their defensive prowess. Windhorst highlights their critical roles:

"Sar Thompson, playing in his first ever elimination game, scores 22 points, plays great defense in the Garden." (06:01)
"Asar was great defensively in this game and had 17 points." (06:27)

Tim MacMahon adds,

“Asar Thompson was completely out of the screen. That's how much space Jalen Brunson creates.” (03:29)

This dynamic duo is anticipated to face off in high-stakes games in the future, potentially becoming central figures in their teams’ strategies.

3. Detroit Pistons' Struggles and Team Analysis

The Pistons' recent loss in Detroit mirrors the Milwaukee Bucks' overtime collapse in Indianapolis. Windhorst compares the two scenarios:

"In both situations, they had three-possession leads. The Pistons are at home in a vital game and they're up seven points with two and a half minutes left." (00:55)

The team’s offensive inefficiency is scrutinized, particularly Jalen Brunson’s isolation plays. Windhorst criticizes the Pistons' offense:

"There was just Brunson straight isolating and making a few amazing maneuvers to get baskets. The Pistons quit scoring." (04:39)

Despite possessing talents like Jalen Duran and Mikhail Bridges, the Pistons struggled to capitalize when it mattered most.

4. Upcoming Knicks vs. Celtics Series

Looking ahead, Windhorst expresses enthusiasm for the upcoming Knicks vs. Celtics series:

"New York, Boston. Why not? Why not?" (16:21)

He anticipates another tightly contested matchup, building on the intensity of the current playoff landscape.

5. Clippers vs. Nuggets Game 7 Breakdown

The conversation shifts to the Clippers vs. Nuggets Game 7, emphasizing James Harden's unexpected drop in performance:

“James Harden, who had a bad Game 5 and didn’t talk to the media, just started handing the ball away late in the game.” (20:00)
"He played 47 minutes, which might explain his decline." (21:37)

Kawhi Leonard's consistent excellence is also highlighted:

“Kawhi came into this game averaging 25 points on 56 shooting. In this one, he scored 26 with 10 rebounds and 5 assists.” (27:41)

6. Lakers’ Future: Trades, Contracts, and Roster Moves

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the Lakers' future, focusing on potential trades and contract negotiations. Windhorst outlines the Lakers' cap flexibility and key targets:

“They have cap flexibility, too. We'll see what they do with it.” (12:42)

Key players like LeBron James and Dorian Finney-Smith are analyzed regarding their contract options and performance:

“LeBron has a $52 million contract with a no-trade clause, likely extending it with similar terms.” (55:55)
“Dorian Finney Smith has a $15 million player option, which could lead to a sign-and-trade scenario.” (56:01)

The potential acquisition of rim protectors and playmakers is discussed, with considerations for players like Mark Williams and potential free agents.

7. Player Performances and Series Highlights

The trio delves into standout performances and key moments:

• Harrison Barnes: Recognized for batting down the Warriors to the play-in, earning a shout-out as a clutch performer.

• Anthony Edwards: Applauded for his balanced play, combining offense and defense effectively.

• Tyrese Haliburton: Commended for his leadership and game-winning drive in critical moments.

Notable Quotes:

Tim MacMahon praises Edwards:
“Ant was a mature, distinguished version of cajones by Mr. Edwards here.” (71:21)

Windhorst on Haliburton:
“Tyrese Haliburton... backed it up and had the drive and the dunk to send that thing in OT.” (75:01)

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, the hosts reflect on the intensity and unpredictability of the playoffs. Windhorst underscores the importance of execution and strategic player management as teams navigate through high-pressure scenarios. The episode concludes with commendations for players who stepped up and a nod to the evolving dynamics of the NBA playoffs.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Windhorst on recurring playoff trends:

  “This happens every year. The teams that are most dominant get forgotten...” (00:39)

• Brunson’s Game-Winner:

  “He had a 40-point game-winning shot... that is what they did.” (08:54)

• Asar Thompson’s Defense:

  “Sar Thompson was completely out of the screen.” (03:29)

• Clippers vs Nuggets Analysis:

  “James Harden... just started handing the ball away late in the game.” (20:00)

• Lakers’ Contract Strategies:

  “LeBron has a $52 million contract with a no-trade clause...” (55:55)

• Player Spotlight on Anthony Edwards:

  “Ant was a mature, distinguished version of cajones...” (71:21)

---

Note: This summary excludes advertisement segments and focuses solely on the content-rich discussions pertinent to the NBA playoffs, player performances, and strategic team analyses.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

Foreign. Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing early on Friday morning here. Although not where Kevin Pelton is. He's in Seattle. The Machine. What's up, sir?

[Kevin Pelton]

The night is still young out here on the Pacific time zone.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know you get crazy late on Thursday nights. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, he hasn't covered a game in weeks span, McMahon.

[Tim MacMahon]

Howdy, partners. It's not been quite weeks, but I'm going to get a good solid week plus here at home. And I'm enjoying every bit enjoying sitting on the couch and watch some damn good series.

[Brian Windhorst]

This has happened. This happens every year. The, the teams that are most dominant get forgot about because there's these teams sort of, you know, middle of the pack that are absolutely throwing haymakers at each other. It's like, oh, I forgot Oklahoma City. Like this happened last year. Boston, like, you know, sailed through the first two rounds. It was like they weren't even in the playoffs.

[Tim MacMahon]

Boston sailed through the first four rounds last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true. They're. They're 20 and four in the last, in the playoffs the last two years. All right, so we had a couple of games on Thursday night that went down to the final minute. And we're going to start with the, the misery for the Pistons in Detroit. There was, there's similarities, but so many similarities between the game that the Pistons lost in Detroit and the game that the Bull Bucks lost in Indianapolis two days ago. Because in both situations, they had three possession leads. Now, the, the lead that the Bucks blew was in overtime in the final minute. But in this one, the Pistons are at home in a, you know, vital game and they're up seven points with two and a half minutes left. This game was absolutely a wrestling match. It was brutal to watch. And I'm going to tell you, like, I'm watching this game and I'm like, I just don't know what the Knicks are doing. Like, they're, it's just Jalen Brunson dribbling around and trying to find a crack against the Tsar Thompson. And I'm like, this is no way to play basketball. I'm saying, like, I'm like, this is like, I don't know who's going to win this game, but this is no way to play basketball. And then Jalen Brunson comes up with some stuff at the end of this game. McMahon. It's not the, the separate, the play that he makes to win the game. I'm speechless because I don't even know what to say he sticks his foot in the ground like he's Gail Sayers, you know, Walter Payton, you know Herschel Walker, you know, you're from Texas. Who else should I be talking?

[Tim MacMahon]

He's an Eagles fan. So we'll say Saquon Barkley.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, Saquon Barkley.

[Kevin Pelton]

And then more timely, a Sar Thompson.

[Tim MacMahon]

You know that famous clip of you, Wendy, where you're like flying by on the TV screen? I think somebody else that was like a Saar Thompson just flying out of the screen when Brunson planted with that left foot, crosses back over. And I mean, like there's a replay that, you know, it's a fairly wide angle there. But Asar Thompson was completely out of the screen. That's how much space.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he'd been playing so well, defending so well.

[Tim MacMahon]

Here's a, here's an ESPN research number for you. Brunson in the fourth quarter when defended by Asar Thompson was one of six.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my God.

[Tim MacMahon]

And that one unbelievable crossover created the space. Thompson still got somewhat of a contest on it, but knocked down the. Not just game winning.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't even think crossover is. We got to come up with another description of that.

[Tim MacMahon]

It was, it was an epic move.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my God.

[Tim MacMahon]

And I was, I was with you. I was watching that. First of all, JB Bickerstaff sub Thompson out for a little bit there like with 4ish minutes left. And I was like, ooh, I don't know about that. Like Schroeder can't stop Brunson. But Brunson couldn't do anything with Thompson. Then he brought him back down in, down the stretch. But I like, as they're coming out there, I'm like, Thompson, dude, do you gotta. Cat's fouled out. Do you gotta find like, do you gotta run something for somebody else? Can you just give Brunson the ball here? Thompson's been swallowing him up all game. And you know, Brunson afterwards just was raving with respect for Sar Thompson. But for, look, Brunson, I mean, what a series for him. What a performance. Not the most efficient in the world, but to have a 40 pointer where they, where they walk off. Come on now.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, 30. He had 40 points on 33 shots. It was tough to watch. There are some possessions where you're just like, you know, you've got Carl Towns on the team, you've got OG Anunoby. Mikhail Bridges had a. Had really two good offensive games down the stretch. He missed a clutch shot at the end of game five. That, you know, was painful, but Mikhail Bridges did come to play, but there was just. It was just Brunson straight isoing and he made a couple of amazing maneuvers to get baskets. The Pistons quit scoring, and there was just some absolute hand to hand combat on some, some plays at the, at the rim. And while Kate Cunningham had a great series cade, you know, in the one game in New York, or was it the. No, it was the. It was game four, where, you know, he had two good looks in the last minute, couldn't get it done. And in this game, he was great. I'm not taking anything away from him, but, you know, he wasn't able to get the Pistons some baskets when they needed some sort of offense, some sort of points. He wasn't able to get. Actually. Jalen Duran was their leading scorer in the fourth quarter of this game, which I would not have expected. But let me just say, as a quick aside, it's been an incredible few days for the Thompson twins.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sar Thompson, playing in his first ever elimination game, scores 22 points, plays great defense in the Garden. Then the next night, which is our last night here, Wednesday night. Amen. Thompson in his first closeout game with 25 points, 5 steals, and 3 blocks in the demolition, picking Steph Curry at half court.

[Tim MacMahon]

Come on.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then Asar was great defensively in this game and had 17 points, right? Yeah. You know, he didn't score. He. He couldn't make a shot and didn't score. But games five and six, he. God, what. What talents these two guys are. I mean, they're going to see each other on the court someday in a high leverage game. I'm gonna tell you, I. Maybe it's with Houston and Detroit, maybe it's somewhere else, but these two dudes are going to go against each other or my God. On. Maybe they end up on the same team. Holy Moses. Oh, my God. All right, so I just want to say, last possession, they ISO. Last possession for New York, they ISO Jalen Brunson, which was not a surprise. Mikhail Bridges runs past like he's gonna set a screen. He just runs past Brunson, comes left, and I. I assume Asar. I haven't seen his comments after the game because I immediately started watching the, the Clippers. Clippers game. I assume he's just favoring that Jalen's going to go left. Jalen has the heavy left hand. He's going left. You know, he doesn't want to get beat because if Brunson gets the corner turned, you know, he gets, you on his hip. There's all kinds of problems. And he's just favoring that left hand. And Brunson just sticks that left foot in the ground. I don't know if he could have done it on his right foot. McMahon, because his right ankle, he sprained it. Like he keeps respraining it, but his left ankle was strong.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, you're also not going to get somebody to sit that heavy on his right hand.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. And, and the, the amount of space he creates is crazy. Steps into a three, holds up his signature, you know, three with the thumb and the two fingers. And then did you see him in the post game? He had like a sweatshirt, like a, like a branded sweatshirt. And he made sure he put the hood up on it because right on the top of the hood was the three fingers. I mean, I don't know who did the branding. I mean, it was actually on the hat. I was on the hat. I thought it was on a sweatshirt. Well, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I'm just gonna say whoever did that, kudos. I don't like branded stuff. I would never buy branded stuff. But I was like, wow, that's cool. If I was, if I was a Jalen Brunson fan, I would want that tomorrow so bad that 3. I do not walk away from this thinking the Knicks are going to be pressing the Celtics, but give Jalen Brunson his moment. Pelton, incredible finish to this series. Incredible fourth quarters. Great stuff.

[Kevin Pelton]

So McMahon mentioned 40 points in the walk off shot. And ESPN research with the list of this all time in NBA history. Two guys did it in 2019 alone. Damian Lillard in Portland against Oklahoma City. I was in the building for that one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Slightly memorable.

[Kevin Pelton]

Slightly. And then Kawhi Leonard against Toronto in round or against Philadelphia, I should say with Toronto in round.

[Brian Windhorst]

Slightly, slightly memorable.

[Kevin Pelton]

And then the, the third one before this was Michael Jordan in 1998 in.

[Brian Windhorst]

Salt Lake City in the Brian Asar kind of went sliding like Russell Byron.

[Kevin Pelton]

Jalen did not give him.

[Brian Windhorst]

But there was no, no contact there.

[Tim MacMahon]

It won't be a wi Fi password in Little Caesar's arena in 25 or 30 years like it is in the, in the Delta Center. Might still be. Admittedly didn't make it to the Delta center this year in Utah.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, you know, you'll be back there at some point, but yeah, I mean those are three of the most iconic shots in NBA history. The Jordan game winner in his last game in Chicago uniform up there with the greatest shots, period. In NBA history. So for Brunson to join that group, pretty incredible. And it's a combination of a testament to how close this series was, which ESPN research had a great note about this too. It was the, the second series in NBA history to feature four straight games decided by three or fewer points. The only other time it had happened before the 1981 Eastern Conference finals. Philadelphia and Boston. So a lot of clutch time and a lot of Jalen Brunson in clutch time for the knicks. He scored 27 points in the NBA advanced stats clutch definition. During the first round. Carl Anthony Towns was second at 16. Nobody else had more than 15 seconds, so he, he nearly doubled.

[Brian Windhorst]

Nobody else had the ball. Nobody else had the ball, no, but.

[Kevin Pelton]

I, I feel like there's an inside track on the con factor. Player of the month. I don't want to steal.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my gosh.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hey, wa, it's the 1st of May. It's all I'm gonna say.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my gosh, what a, what a, what an opening salvo in the May cajones factor. Are we, are we doing coones tonight? Are you ready?

[Tim MacMahon]

I, I, I've got it. Ready to roll. Yeah, we get, get to it here in a little bit. Listen, I like awesome series by Brunson in particular. The Knicks survive. We can't just skip over the Pistons though. Yeah, this team won 14 games last year and I'm sure Pistons fans walked out of there pissed off, but they also had to be fired up because listen, Cade, like there's some efficiency things, turnovers. He's a superstar, right? And he's got pieces around him. Asar Thompson's a guy you can be excited about. He's going to be a really good player for a long time, whether he ever gets a jump shot or not. Dude, Jalen Dern is a player. He is a big time big man and he's not like he, he's cut out of freaking granite. He's a hell of an athlete. But he's got feel like this guy, he's not just your, your pick and roll lob threat. Like you can throw it to him in the short roll. He, he's a great passer for that type of guy. He's tough, he's athletic as hell. You know, obviously Jaden Ivey didn't get to play in this series. You know, missed most of season with that injury before he went down this year. He gave you reason to think, okay, hey, you know what? That's a dude like the Pistons.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he had really, he had really regained Momentum before his injury.

[Tim MacMahon]

The Pistons have some really nice young pieces. You know, some of the vets they brought in. Uh, we'll see. Like Malik Beasley wants to be back. You know, Tim Hardaway also freezing. I would think he would want to be back. We'll see how that works out.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, they've got cap flexibility, too. We'll see what they do with it.

[Tim MacMahon]

It was a bummer of a way to end it for Beasley.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's what I wanted to say. That was another reason why it was comparable to the. To the Milwaukee game, because Gary Trent. The ball goes. You know, in that case, they were.

[Tim MacMahon]

They didn't.

[Brian Windhorst]

Were protecting the league. Gary Trent just had to hold on to the ball. In this case, Malik Beasley is going to have a shot. He's the. He was second in the league in three pointers this season. He was going to have a clean shot to. To send the game to overtime. And then he just. He fumbles it away.

[Tim MacMahon]

And, you know, six of them. He had six of them.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know he. He had not.

[Tim MacMahon]

First half, the last one at the halftime buzzer.

[Brian Windhorst]

He had not been having a good. You know, for a guy who was elite three shooting the three. He had a good game one, and then he was two of. He was six of 13 tonight, but he was two of seven in game. Game five, three of nine in game four, two of 10, one of eight. He. He. He wasn't. He didn't really leave his mark on the series, but this was his moment. And, you know, to be honest with you, I. I think he would have hit it. I think if he gets it off, he hits it.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's the guy you want shooting the ball for the Pistons. Yeah, but you know, Brunson evil with Thompson on him. That's the guy the Knicks want to have with the ball in his hands.

[Kevin Pelton]

And I think we got to give credit to J.B. bickerstaff from whoever drew up that play in the huddle. Like you were going to get a w. The guy you wanted. And a bummer that they didn't get to see it come to fruition.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, and Staff, he's getting, you know, like, there's some scrutiny on the decision to sub assault. For what? Whatever it was. It's like two minutes late in the fourth quarter there. I get it. I think it was a questionable move. But, dude, what is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Brunson. Brunson went down in the inside and had that basket on the. Under. The basket where. I think where Thompson was out of the game then.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. He. He got two or three buckets there against Dennis Schroeder, but again, JB Bickerstaff had a hell of a first year in Detroit, taking them from 14 wins to 43 in the regular season. A couple more, and, like, you know, they gave the Knicks a hell of a fight in this series.

[Brian Windhorst]

Just look at how many minutes Thompson played in the second half, because, I mean, I. I assume he did that because he thought he was tired.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, he had come back relatively early in the fourth quarter, and I think it was probably, you know, a matter of kind of the. The energy he expended because he was everywhere on that core before he subbed out. It's sort of the, you know, the alternative path we can't see is would he have worn down trying to defend Jalen Brunson in the last two minutes had he, you know, gone that entire stretch? Tough to say.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he. He played. He played 14 minutes in the second half.

[Tim MacMahon]

I would say this. I. I don't care if Assar Thompson needs to take. Freaking. Needs to play with an oxygen mask on. Rather have him guard Jaylen Brunson than Dennis Scher, who. Jackson makes a rare contribution here, and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my gosh, unnecessary.

[Tim MacMahon]

I. I'm praising him. Brunson scored 15 points on 6 of 7 shooting with Dennis Schroeder as his primary defender. Scher was a very nice pickup for the Pistons. Nice midseason pickup for the Pistons. It'll be interesting to see what happens with him this summer. And, you know, he is a guy who's hit a lot of big shots in his career, not just in the NBA, but, you know, obviously for the German national team, World cup, reigning World cup mvp. I would have.

[Brian Windhorst]

And.

[Tim MacMahon]

And you know what? Assar Thompson was Gordon Brunson on the. On when the series came down to it, juked him out of the screens.

[Brian Windhorst]

Holy Moses.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm not gonna. I'm not going to question JB too much, I guess.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, there's a bunch of stuff. They're not. They're not. The Celtics aren't playing the Knicks until Monday. That's the series I'm going to be doing.

[Tim MacMahon]

So you excited?

[Brian Windhorst]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, New York, Boston. Why not? Why not?

[Kevin Pelton]

You should have asked if he's excited because Bond jumps. We'll be covering the series.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I bet you Bond himself. Weasels waiting in the Garden at times.

[Brian Windhorst]

There is. He shows up at the Garden, I'm gonna kick his the way. Since we brought him up. Congratulations to the Bontemps family. A bundle of joy. A baby boy was born on Wednesday night. Literally. Right. He said right as the Lakers were being eliminated.

[Tim MacMahon]

Best moment of his life times two.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bon Temps Junior, Right? Well, I shouldn't say Bon Temps Junior he's not, I'm not authorized to give the name, but it's not. Not Tim. Anyway, Kelly Kbon is doing well. So yeah, he's probably going to be looking for, for a reason to come to the, to the arena soon. I But little bond times. The only world he knows is the Lakers as losers and the Knicks as winners.

[Tim MacMahon]

And he watched having no other way.

[Brian Windhorst]

He, he watched his first game with his dad on Thursday night and he, he was watching MSG in New York City and he got to hear Mike Breen with the bang bang, the double.

[Tim MacMahon]

Bang bang bang, baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

He it's all he knows is, you know, Jalen Brunson greatness. So anyway, yeah, I'll be doing that series and we'll see. I think the Knicks, you know who they didn't, they don't exactly leave me, leave me confident that they're going to reverse the trend of them of them against top teams this year. But Jalen Brunson is, you know, I think if you're the Knicks, you just get the, you get the game to the fourth quarter and try to let Jalen do something for you.

[Tim MacMahon]

Seriously.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, that's your goal.

[Tim MacMahon]

Of course the Celtics have a few dudes that can throw at him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So we'll see. You know, obviously Drew Holiday would be one of them and Holiday missed three games in the first round with the hamstrings. So, you know, they, I was, it was an option for them to start the series on Saturday. They could have started the series on Saturday but for sequencing for later, later in the, in the playoffs. They are starting at Monday.

[Tim MacMahon]

So I thought they asked you about that and you said you wanted a weekend and all.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I wanted to play golf on Sunday morning. And so we're going to get, we're going to get 18 in before we head out to the East Coast. So I'll just, then I'll, then I'll seal the clubs for six weeks because that'll be that.

[Tim MacMahon]

But anyway, more Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you're on a business trip, you know what goes completely off the rails? Your workout routine. Especially when you book a hotel that doesn't have a gym. So what ends up happening is you do a few push ups and sit ups in your room, run around the block or just skip it entirely. Lame. If you just stay At a La Quinta by Wyndham, you'll discover there's a fully equipped fitness center at every location. Now you can wake up and power your buys and tries right away or de stress with some cardio. The choice is yours tonight La Quinta. Tomorrow you shine. Book [e-mail] if you want tools that stand the test of time without testing your wallet, Harbor Freight is the place for you. Expert engineers design and rigorously test Harbor Freight tools to bring you top quality. Whether your next project is big or small, Harbor Freight carries a wide selection, from hand tools to power tools to automotive tools and welding equipment. With prices lower than other top brands, but with the same top quality, you're getting more for your money at Harbor Freight. There are over 1,500 Harbor Freight stores in the U.S. so come see for yourself. Whatever you do, do it for less at Harbor Freight. Vivid Seats is your ultimate destination for basketball and hockey. This season. They make it easy for every fan to watch their favorite teams and players in action. Catch every one timer and buzzer, beating three live and in person from your favorite seat. Plus, every ticket is backed by a 100% buyer guarantee, giving you peace of mind with every purchase. As the official ticketing partner of ESPN, we're excited to offer you $20 off your first $200 ticket purchase with Code Hoop. That's Code hoop. So visit vividseats.com or download the app today. Vivid Seats. Experience it live. Okay, so let's get out to the West Coast Clippers were. Oh, all right, well, we'll do that later. Okay. It's out to the West Coast Clipper. This, this thing had seven games written all over. It had to be. I, I will say that the game was kind of, you know, comparable to the Knicks game because at the end of the Knicks game, you know, the Knicks had like a 15 point lead and they let Detroit overtake them. The Clippers were leading through most the second half of this game. And then all of a sudden, midway through the fourth quarter, James Harden, who had played a very good game, just started dribbling the heck out of the ball and just handing it away. I mean, he, you know, he had a bad game 5 and didn't talk to the media and came back and had a great start and was like, you know, playing, you know, was going to be the hero. And I don't, I don't know what was happening, but he, he just sort of went to mush late in the game and the, the Nuggets kept getting the ball and getting Free breakouts and they kept missing open.

[Tim MacMahon]

Tired. He played 47 minutes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's true, I'll give him that. Maybe, maybe that's what, that was it. But the, the, the Clippers held him off. Tremendous performance by Avitza. Zubots down the stretch. Defensively, he got a couple of stops on Jokic. Pelton, I don't think there's a head to head defender. I don't think there's, I think he's the best that you could have against Jokic in the league.

[Kevin Pelton]

Well, that's interesting because I mean, for large stretch of the series, the Clippers have sort of opted to go with other players on Jokic, including James Harden at times in Game 5 to, you know, keep Zubots in that help role he was so good in in the regular season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, they had success in game five by, by switching and then doubling. But when it mattered in game six, when their season was on the line, they, they left Zubac out there to, to, to, to save him. And he, he was able to get some stops on Joker.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, and, and When Joker has 25 points and eight assists, that's a bad game by his standards, you know, which is, but Zubots is the primary defender. Quoting a Ramona tweet here. 5 of 14, including 1 of 8 in the second half and a couple of huge stops after. It got tight late there against everybody else.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also Nick. Yeah, that's great point. So also Nick Batum who, you know, at one point like 18 months ago announced that last year was his last year. He was like, I'm finishing, I'm doing, I'm playing my last NBA season, I'm playing the Olympics and I'm riding off into the sunset.

[Tim MacMahon]

The Paris Olympics.

[Kevin Pelton]

I believe it was his wife that said that. I don't know that Nick ever said it. Did he?

[Brian Windhorst]

That's funny. I mean, maybe she said it first, but I'm pretty sure I read that he said that was it. I don't know. I just know that the, you know, he got traded last year and then the Clippers were like, listen, come on, come to la. And he was tremendous in this game.

[Tim MacMahon]

If, if it was a wife's decision, Philly to LA is like, you know, okay, all right, maybe one more year. I, I, I could see that. But no, and one of the big, I would say Tyler's biggest adjustment in this game was he pulled Chris Dunn at halftime. I don't, Did Kristen play at all in the second half? Oh, look, but he started Batum in the second half. Instead of Chris Dunn. And, like, if you look at Batoum's stats, it's like they don't jump off the page, you know, six points. But he did have. He had six assists. He had five rebounds. He had a couple steals. He's just that, you know, definitely had.

[Brian Windhorst]

A couple of blocks.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, he had. Had.

[Brian Windhorst]

Chris done. Did not play in the second.

[Tim MacMahon]

He had three blocks, including one big one there down the stretch. And, you know, he just, like, when he's on a good team, he just. He's a connector, you know, he's kind of that, you know, I don't know how to say glue guy in French, but however you say that, you don't.

[Brian Windhorst]

You don't. You don't know how to say glue guy in French. How. How dare you?

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, you know, I. I don't even know how to say beer in French now I think about it. But he just makes a ton of winning plays. And it's funny because the guy was a terrible contract for Charlotte a while ago, and he's been a really good. A really good player, you know, ever since then. Just, you know, he's just like. I don't know. I don't even know what his salary is this year. Is he a minimum guy?

[Brian Windhorst]

I think.

[Kevin Pelton]

I think it was the biannual exception.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, he's a hell of a. He's a hell of a bargain on that. But whether it's for France or, like, you know, the Clippers over the years, he just has a way of doing all the little things that help win games, and that was definitely the case tonight. Oh, beer. I should have known that. Thanks, Jackson.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, I think just you say beer in Paris, you'll. You'll get what you need. So the Clippers are the. The. The Nuggets role players once again played. Wellsbrook had an effective game. He did have his Westbrook moments where he botched layups and stuff, but he had a double. Double. Yeah, you know, played, you know, increase the tempo. Christian Brown with another good game. Aaron Gordon had a good game. Really, the only thing here is that, you know, Jamal Murray was not red hot, and Jokic did not have a, you know, a Hall of Fame performance. He had a good, not great game. Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

And Murray wasn't bad. Murray had 21 and eight right, but.

[Brian Windhorst]

He didn't have 40.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, 21 on nine. 19, you'll take. You know who did get red hot?

[Brian Windhorst]

Norman Powell.

[Tim MacMahon]

Norm Norman Powell got really hot.

[Brian Windhorst]

Friend of the pod. And they hit a. He had a huge third quarter, and then he Made an absolutely vital three pointer late in the fourth quarter as.

[Kevin Pelton]

Well when they were on fumes. Yeah, I mean, the guy for Denver who did not play well is the role player was Michael Porter Jr. Who's obviously dealing with this shoulder injury. And you know, there, there was an update during this game about how difficult it is for. I think it was Lauren Jabara on the sidelines for tnt. You mentioned it's hard for him to even lift his shoulder to 90 degrees. Let Al, you know, to shoot a shot. Five points, 2 of 5 shooting in 24 minutes. And the Nuggets route scored by 24 with him on the court. Now that's partially because he is typically out there, you know, when Jokic is resting or when Murray is resting, not when both of those guys are on the court.

[Brian Windhorst]

Having said that, having said that, Pelton, he was plus 34 right in game five. So that's obviously a swing again with plus minus. It's never solely on the player, but it's not perfect.

[Tim MacMahon]

But he had a, you know, he had a rough go at it tonight. And you know, the Clippers got a lot of dudes contributing and dude, you know, Kawhi had another hall of Fame caliber performance.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Kawhi came into this game in this series averaging 25 points on 56 shooting. And all he did in this one was score 26.

[Tim MacMahon]

I think 27 on 11 of 22.

[Brian Windhorst]

So 10 rebounds. Yeah, 10 rebounds of five assistants. This. Yeah, he's. He's bringing it every night again, 40 minutes he was plus 14. He was the best, best player in the game plus, minus wise. So the Nuggets on one hand, the Nuggets I feel like have definitely played better the last couple of games. Like I would feel pretty good if I was a Denver fan going into game seven. On the other hand, you also feel like the Clippers have given away or let two games in this series they could have won go. So Pelton, what were you saying about this is Denver's seventh game seven in the last six years or something like that.

[Kevin Pelton]

Sixth since 2019 per ESPN research. So the most of any team in that span. They played two of them in that 2019 run. One at home against San Antonio, lost at home against Portland, then played two of them, of course in the bubble. Both of those three, one comebacks that they completed and then last year against Minnesota. So they've lost twice at home in game Sevens during the Yokichiro, which is, you know, interesting given the home court advantage. You think, you know, did we always see in game seven.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then Denver, you don't always see it anymore, so I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I would just say anecdotally, Game seven home court has. It's been way closer to even over the last decade than it was for the previous 60 years.

[Tim MacMahon]

I think the Nuggets, I think they just need to remind the opponents a little bit more often of the altitude there. I'm not. They. They really kind of try to keep that a secret and see if we'll sneak up on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, please put down your standard Denver Nuggets court with the. With the. The axe and the pick or whatever it is. Like, like, like, don't stop messing around with that altitude stuff. Like, you know, if you're gonna have a classic game, put your classic court down there.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm gonna be nice to the Nuggets, though. One. I gotta cover. You know, whoever wins this one, I'll be covering them in the next round against okc. So I'm going to be nice to. To both of them. Two, I'm still trying to get back on the good side of Rocky, the mascot. Oh, Outline. There's only. He's only got three fingers, but he showed me the one in the middle.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh.

[Tim MacMahon]

A couple years back, you know, so I'm still trying to get back in his good graces. All I did was try to encourage him after he had a poor shooting session backwards from half court on that big old ladder in his pregame. And I said, hey, man, you got to do better than that. The guy flipped me off. And then, lo and behold, I've motivated him, though, because that night, first time out, whatever it was, whatever time out he came out at, man, he banked in the first. First look. So I hope we're.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I think he's.

[Tim MacMahon]

He ain't tall enough to riff a game, I'll tell you that right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't want to pull the curtain back too far, but I think we have a new Rocky.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, good. Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

The original Rocky was. Was legendary in NBA mascot circles, but I. I think there is a new, you know, a new expression of Rocky. So this. That Rocky, you know, three fingers.

[Tim MacMahon]

What?

[Brian Windhorst]

It's still three fingers, you know, but that, you know, that other Rocky was a legend, and maybe he was cantankerous near the end of his career.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, I can. I can confirm the cantankerous.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, that'll be a good one. Yeah. Considering they lost game seven at home last year, I would assume that the Nuggets are. Are trying to reverse that and and the team that was happy, they're trying.

[Tim MacMahon]

To win game seven as well.

[Brian Windhorst]

The team that is happiest tonight is the Thunder. They just put their feet up a little higher. Yeah, like we'll see you next week.

[Tim MacMahon]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

For men, dealing with ED can be uncomfortable, which is why HIMS provides access to a comfortable solution with an all online process and personalized treatment options. HIMS is changing men's healthcare by providing you with access to affordable sexual health treatments from the comfort of your couch. HIMS provides access to a range of doctor trusted ED treatments like chewable tablets, Viagra and Cialis and their generics for up to 95% less. The process is 100% online, so there's no need for uncomfortable doctor's visits. Just fill out an intake form on their site and a medical provider will determine the right treatment option. If prescribed, your medication ships directly to you for free. No insurance is needed and one low price covers everything from treatments to ongoing care. With hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers, HIMS can help you find the ED option that works for you. Start your free online visit today at hims.com hoop that's h I m s.com hoopp for personalized ED treatment options. Hims.com hoopp the featured products include compounded products which are not approved or nor verified for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important safety information. Price varies based on product and subscription plan. All right, I think contractually we're supposed to talk about the Lakers. Although it was the Timberwolves who won the series. Oh, they did. As ant made it very, very clear after the game. I gotta say it'll never be remembered like this. But Rudy Gobert talk your French talk. Because how many times in the last 11 months has Rudy Gobert had to see Luca hit that three over him in game. Was it game five? I think it was game five.

[Tim MacMahon]

That three was game two. There was no need for a game winner because that's right from the get go.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. And. And Luca, you can't guard me.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. Talking all that Slovenian. I asked, you know, message Rudy last night said, hey, did you tell him you can't effing guard me and effer. He said no need to talk. Oh, but you know what though? The funny thing is there's always been so much talk about Rudy gets played off the floor in the playoffs. Rudy is playing and it's factually inaccurate. Now he there's been playoff series where it didn't go well for him, but you know, people always want to point to like that Clippers playoff series. He didn't get played off the floor. The Jazz got beat four straight games. The defense fell apart because he couldn't plug all the holes. The defense was bad with him out there and just historically atrocious without him. But the problem with Rudy when teams went small was he was. His defensive dominance was mitigated if you can pull him away from the rim, obviously, and he wasn't able to punish it on the offensive end. Last night he punished the hell out of it by grabbing every rebound. He had eight offensive rebounds and eight dunks. First dude to do that in a, in a playoff game, I believe our folks said, since Amari Stoudemire.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he, he, he had the most dunks in a game since Shaq in a playoff game since Shaq in 2002.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. And you know, wasn't even punishing switches. It was just, he was absolutely feasting on the Glass, you know, 27 points, 24 rebounds. And obviously a major factor defensively. And the funny thing is, Pelton agree or disagree with this? I think up until that point it had probably been his worst playoff series offensively, certainly.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think defensively I think he had done, done very well defensively.

[Brian Windhorst]

They shot 29 against him as the, as the primary defender. So that was, of course the guys shooting against them are all 6 to 8 inches shorter than him. So that was a, that was a factor.

[Kevin Pelton]

But they always are. I mean it's, it's a guy who made that shot. We were just talking about in this year's series. Minnesota was completely comfortable switching Gobert on him. And he's not going to win everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

He never had to guard a center basically at all. I mean he was, you know, no, don't have any.

[Kevin Pelton]

But you know, they were completely comfortable switching him and leaving him in an island against luka Doncic and LeBron James. And that, you know, helped the, the Timberwolves keep the Lakers role players in check throughout this series. But yeah, offensively it had not been his best series. And we had seen Nas Reed, you know, finish at times because of that. And you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, the way to attack a mismatch with, with Rudy GOBERT Against a five out team that's not playing anyone taller than six, seven or six, eight or you know, whatever the, I guess LeBron is six, eight. So six, eight, you know, is not to throw him the ball in the Post and let him go one on one. It's the offensive glasses you're talking about. And then get the ball moving. The other part of this game was the way that Anthony Edwards in the first half to attack the Lakers double teams and got the Lakers in rotation and set up wide open threes that they kept missing. But. But also some opportunities.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, yeah, I mean, all in all, it was. It was a C performance from the Timberwolves.

[Tim MacMahon]

You know, one guy was a plus. But you know what, though? The ball was moving.

[Kevin Pelton]

Julius Randall was a pretty high grade, too.

[Brian Windhorst]

Julius Randall was. Was. Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, look, they missed four, had an A series. He. He was great for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was the best. Best playoff showing of his career. And it couldn't. It came at a perfect time. And look, I mean, they missed 43 pointers at one point. They missed 18 in a row. But when you got Rudy getting, you know, 25, 20% of them. Yeah, you know, it's. It. It makes your offense a little bit more feasible that way. Still, it was a game in the last minute.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. And Mike Conley hit a three when they really needed it. And Ant set it up.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, they. Well, I'll say this about Ant, like, he talks trash and he plays with swagger and he dunks on dudes and he hunts that, but he plays the right way. He plays at both ends of the court and he plays the right way. He plays learning.

[Tim MacMahon]

He.

[Brian Windhorst]

He.

[Tim MacMahon]

He plays with the right spirit. He has made major progress very recently in playing the right way offensively.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But I understand. But the. His. He has a pure heart.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

About it. You know, that's. Eric Spolster would say that, you know, we. We played with purity. You know, as. He used to say that. He hasn't said that recently about the Heat, but he. At one time he said that he played with.

[Tim MacMahon]

Period.

[Kevin Pelton]

Like pure something.

[Brian Windhorst]

No spo. Tried to put a good. Yeah. A good face on that.

[Tim MacMahon]

I told you boys that the paragraph and a paint next year in that Heat culture is going to be an apology for that game. For abomination. Man.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're not talking about the Heat right now, but we are talking about purity because Ant played, as Jared Allen would say, aunt played ethical basketball in that game. He. I think he was 5 and 19, but he was very happy to get the win over 11. My God. Yeah. He had 17 free throws in. In game five or game four. And you know, he was attacking the room. That was big. And he had 43 that night. But he let Rudy be the star. All right. It's. We've. We're. Jackson is going to get a memo if we don't bring up the Lakers.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, we got some stuff to talk about.

[Brian Windhorst]

Here's the thing. I. There was a way that the Lakers could have gone on a run in this postseason. There's a style of play that they. That they showed they could be very successful at, which is when at least two of their three stars are hitting their shots. And defensively, they play with high energy where they can run around and cover a lot of ground, and just neither of those things happen. Luca was sick for Game 3, and he hurt his back in Game 5. I don't know how much it affected him because at times he looked fine, and on defense, he was more of a statue than normal.

[Tim MacMahon]

The ball has healing powers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I would just say that, obviously. And. And J.J. redick said it in the exit interview. He's like, we were the inferior team. Or I guess that's not exactly five. Well, I know, I know.

[Tim MacMahon]

Like, ESPN had a clean sweep until Bon Tims got his pick in late, thank goodness.

[Kevin Pelton]

But.

[Tim MacMahon]

But, dude, like, they got smoked in five. There's no way to like, pick through this and say, well, if this. That. No, you got beaten five. It was a gentleman's sweep.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So what I would say about the Lakers is where they're at right now, McMahon. See, if you agree with me, it's comparable. Not the same, but it's comparable to where the Mavericks were two years ago. Mavericks trade for Kyrie.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, they're.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're. There's a bit of a roster debit because of what they traded for Kyrie. They tanked down the stretch. Get fined. How much they get fined for that?

[Tim MacMahon]

I think it was 750, if I'm not mistaken.

[Brian Windhorst]

I knew it was a big.

[Tim MacMahon]

It was high six figures.

[Brian Windhorst]

They get fined for tanking, but they end up with Derek Lively. They move up in the draft to get Lively or do they move back? They moved up or back.

[Tim MacMahon]

They moved back a couple spots, but that was the lot. That was the top 10 protected lottery pick. They kept it at 10. Made a deal where OKC moved up two spots to get Case and Wallace, which they're still pretty damn happy with that. And they moved back to 12 and got Derek Lively second.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so the key was they needed rim protection and a lob threat, and they drafted Derek Lively, who was classic case of that and young, springy, high athleticism. They signed Derrick Jones Jr. How much they give him?

[Tim MacMahon]

Minimum.

[Brian Windhorst]

So he gets a minimum.

[Tim MacMahon]

August something signing Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Athlete, wings.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Then midway through, then as the season goes along they get Daniel Gafford, they try to trade for Kyle Kuzma but they end up with Daniel Gafford and P.J. washington. So they get basically, you know, there was, you know, other things going on but by the end of the day.

[Tim MacMahon]

You hit the main things. They surrounded Luke and Kyrie. There was a little bit of like my turn, your turn. Don't want to step on toes. That really showed up in crunch time. But scoring was not the problem. They stunk defensively and they surrounded those guys with long big time athletes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. And none of those guys are stars. Okay. So the Lakers don't have their pick this year. It goes to the Atlanta Hawks. So they're not going to be able to get something in the draft. But they have the first round pick from 2031 or 32 which they traded for Mark Williams and then pulled back. They have four different swaps. I would be surprised if they traded all of them. But they have four swaps they can trade one of which again they had sent for Mark Williams and hold it back. So they're holding four. I don't know what Dalton connects value is, he had value because they traded him for Mark Williams. But okay, Dalton connect, they have save a fair amount of expiring contracts, you know, from you know, Rui Hachimura who they don't, probably don't want to trade but you know they have Maxi trade.

[Tim MacMahon]

You'd have to consider that who I.

[Brian Windhorst]

Will just say playing Maxi Kleba. I, I, I'm giving the broadcast the, the, you know, the benefit of the doubt that they're correct. But the broadcast, TNT broadcast said the cleaver hadn't even practiced with the Lakers.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well when, when do they practice like.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well it's a little bit disadjusted it sounds, I mean he obviously practiced. He just didn't have like, you know, they didn't, you know, they didn't have a full contact practice where he could practice though.

[Tim MacMahon]

I heard you ripping JJ for that and I, I do think JJ had a, you know, he was a rookie head coach who got out coached in the series by a damn good coach in Chris Finch. I understood what he was trying to do with Maxi. It's a really tough situation to put the guy in. But Maxi has had big time playoff moments and he's had big time playoff moments.

[Brian Windhorst]

I feel like McMenamins back here with this McMahon. He didn't sub, he didn't sub in one game and then the next game he played a guy who had never played before.

[Tim MacMahon]

I just said I understood what he was trying to do with Maxi. The not subbing thing was ridiculous, the way he handed.

[Brian Windhorst]

But he's playing Maxi with five minutes left in the fourth quarter.

[Tim MacMahon]

Highly questionable. And again, I thought he had a rookie series. He, he's got to be better than that. But Austin Reeves stunk. Luke has got to be a lot better.

[Brian Windhorst]

I always remember this story that Brad Stevens told. I've probably told it on the podcast before, but Brad Stevens is like the classic case of the guy who came in from, from college, you know, first time NBA coach. He obviously had more experience than J.J. but yeah, and like people said right away he was like great. You know, people loved what he did right away. And he tells a story about how in his first year as coach of the Celtics, end of a close game, he calls timeout, draws up one of his brilliant plays in the huddle for a baseline out of bounds play. You know, some, you know, beautiful thing that he had developed for years and probably drilled and was going to be great. And the ball goes out for the last shot and the inbounds is on the side and he botched where the inbounds was and the play were completely ill prepared. The play was botched and they lost. The thing was, as he said, the Celtics were tanking. Well, they weren't tanking, but you know, they were tanking. But you know, he probably didn't say those words, but this the first, his first year, the Celtics were tanking. So when he made it wasn't a.

[Tim MacMahon]

Lot of pressure on him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right? When he made his mistakes, he made his mistakes in a situation where there wasn't high leverage.

[Tim MacMahon]

Right?

[Brian Windhorst]

This was not the case for J.J. reddick. J.J. redick is a first time coach. First time NBA coach. His, he had brilliant moments, he had tough moments. My thing about him in this particular game is he was seething and he was seething before the game started. I don't care about the question. You can say the question was a gotcha question or whatever. I don't care what the question is. You could tell the demeanor that he had going into the game. Reggie Miller with a pretty remarkable anecdote during the game when he said that he had to try to calm JJ down before the game in their pregame meeting because he was still so focused on games three and four. And look, I don't know what he said to him in the locker room, but I know that the Lakers didn't come out looking like they were ready to play. So whatever. J.J. is going to have a long career. I do think that he didn't have his, you know, have the best series.

[Tim MacMahon]

But, but, but look, there's a lot of blame to pass around to the Lakers and we've, we've given the appropriate credit to the Wolves. Simple fact is, you know, this Lakers roster is not good enough. They, they kind of suckered some of us with two months of really good defense. That was smoke mirror.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they could have, they could have played that way. Like there was a window for them to play that way, but they didn't.

[Kevin Pelton]

I think, I think part of it was the challenge of when they only had five guys they trusted, which clearly they did. JJ Reddick could not possibly have told us any more clearly that there were only five guys that they trusted in this matchup. Like asking them to play with the level of energy and freneticism that they used defensively during that run the last two months of the season just wasn't realistic. And yeah, I mean, I think to what McMahon was starting to say there, like, look, when they made this trade, it was not about the 2025 playoffs. It was about getting Luka Doncic there, you know, hopefully for the next 10 years.

[Brian Windhorst]

Exactly.

[Kevin Pelton]

And eventually retooling the roster around. That's going to take some time.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I'm saying Dallas built around him and had a championship contender. I wonder, I wonder how many, how many possessions of zone is Maxi Kibo played in his career? That's what I want to know.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, because I mean, he played, he played for Rick Carlisle. Carlisle would mix in a lot of zone. J, kid and Sweeney mix in zone.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, fine.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's okay. I think Maxi's been around the block now. The, you know, he probably couldn't run around the block without losing his wins since he'd had a broken foot in surgery. But you gotta, you got. And they know this. They, they, what they do immediately. They target a rim running, rim protecting big man. You've got to get that guy. And look, Luke is going to get flame broiled because of the conditioning, which I've done a, I puffed and puffed and written about that his entire career. It's completely appropriate criticism. It's completely legitimate. And if he doesn't have, you know, that kind of focus and discipline this summer, he never will. The way he got slapped in the face with the trade.

[Brian Windhorst]

But you've said this before, okay?

[Tim MacMahon]

So that's one thing. The defensive effort, you know, look, the illness, the back, the Condition there was a lot. If Luke is in shape and at his best, you still have to protect him. Defensively, you've got the number one thing you need for him to.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you have to protect Austin Reeves too. You have to protect them both.

[Tim MacMahon]

To maximize his brilliance on offense is give him that guy to run pick and roll and to be able to throw those lobs to and just have that threat and then the guy to have his back defensively and those guys don't grow on trees. And by the way, Mark Williams can smiley face all he wants. It ain't like he's helping Charlotte win any games or he's even available that often.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's. You're making a reference to the fact that he put on. I think was. IG put a. It's just a smiley face after the Lakers loss.

[Tim MacMahon]

Maybe IG too. Pelton, put your Rob Pelinka leather jacket on and push up the sleeves and look real cool for us. And. And if you are in his seat, who are you targeting this summer? Who are you trying to get?

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, I was just going through the cap sheet trying to do it. I mean, you know, you know, if you're looking lower cost, maybe Robert Williams from Portland, you know, they have an overloaded center. They like Robert Williams in the locker rooms. They haven't been in a hurry to. To move him. But that would be somebody who would fit into their salary structure, I think pretty easily for one of those expiring contracts that we talked about and you know, maybe a minimum guy, that sort of thing, you know, that would be a potential option at the other end. Nick Claxton, you know, is on a rebuilding team and fits a lot of what you want ideally in that sort of, you know, five man next to Luca. The problem is the number is the salary is still so big. Because he's got a descending contract, he's at 25.3 million next year. That's much more difficult for them to fit in.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's.

[Kevin Pelton]

They've got to trade three guys probably.

[Tim MacMahon]

What do you think of a Clint Capella?

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, I. I mean, it makes sense. I think a Clint Capella type might. Might be more useful than Clint Capella at this stage of his career because the athleticism that made him so good in that role with James Harden just isn't there anymore. Still awesome on the offensive glass and a real presence there.

[Brian Windhorst]

But to be your backup finisher.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I would say that he would have to get in championship shape as well.

[Brian Windhorst]

I would say this. Mark, as far as Mark Williams. Yeah. I agree that he's not powering the horns to wins. That said, he played 21 games after he came back from the trade. He averaged 15 and 10 and shot.

[Tim MacMahon]

62% better off in this series with him, that's for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, you know, let me throw one at you. This is pure hypothetical. This is just me kind of being amateur gm trying to figure out things that. That might make sense. I. The Mavericks kind of quietly sniffed around about the value of Daniel Gaffer before this last deadline. It certainly would make sense for them to do that again this summer. Derek Live is a year away from getting an extension. Daniel Gafford's entering the final year of his contract. Gafford reasonably and rightfully is going to want to get paid starting center money. You can't have AD on a Max Live the. On a big contract and pay Gafford starting center money. Luca's obviously got chemistry with Gafford. I don't know if Nico wants to go back to Ascension Coffee and have another chit chat with Rob Pelinka so soon or do something that would benefit.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think Ascension Coffee has to rebrand. I. I wonder if their business has suffered.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, because it's like a tourist destination. Do.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, It's a tourist destination.

[Tim MacMahon]

If people want to go see where JFK got shot, they definitely want to see where Luca got.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my God.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, I'm just saying.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my God. Yeah. All right.

[Kevin Pelton]

Where were you?

[Tim MacMahon]

But hey, you know, I. I could. I could put something together that would at least, I think be intriguing for the Mavericks, you know, Rui and, you know, all those picks that they, you know, the pick that they've got to. To give up a swap or two. You know, I could put something together that might make sense for both sides. What are you doing over there?

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm just still laughing at you. Compare. I mean, you know, putting the JFK assassination in the same as.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, no, this final unplanned chapter that didn't make the early copies of the Wonder Boy, Luca, Doncic and the Curse great is still available everywhere. Now this final chapter is available in the. In the ebook and the audiobooks. Anyways, the. The final scene is the protest when, you know, before 80s home debut, right after the Luca trade and all that for the first home game. And at one point they're like pass around the bullhorn for everybody to get their piece in. And this kid, I don't know how old he was, but he was prepubescent. And he goes, I've been a Mavericks fan my Whole life.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is worse than jfk. What a scene. What a scene. All right, so let me go over some of that.

[Tim MacMahon]

Can I also just say one quick thing? This thing of like, and maybe this is being way too online, but people, oh, you know, this proves Nico was right. Oh, the hell it does not. Because even if you thought you couldn't win with luca, you at least got a maximize value in return, the trade still made no sense for the Mavericks long term.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's two different viewpoints of the. Of the LUCA trade. The viewpoint in the world, and specifically the Dallas fan base, is you don't trade Luka Doncic.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's also the majority viewpoint in the NBA.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. However, there are people in the NBA who say, all right, I get it. I get maybe you think that you can't win with him and you don't want to pay him 300 million and you know more about himself than anybody else. Okay, but great players have been traded, but the trade is what drives them crazy.

[Tim MacMahon]

What I was. The thing I've been told is I get wanting to get out of the LUCA business, but you have to maximize the return. And they absolutely did not.

[Brian Windhorst]

That. And that. And as we go forward here, whether Luca wins three titles as a Laker and gets a statue or never wins ever, and Nico. And Nico wins a championship with the Mavericks and he takes the ultimate victory lap in the history of American sports. Either way, just understand that there are people in the NBA, a lot of executives in the NBA who are like, okay, I. I can. I can somewhat see how they got there, but it's. It was a trade.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm not sure it's a lot. It's my minority.

[Kevin Pelton]

It's the fact that you can still argue there's a credible path for them to trade for Daniel Gafford that shows that Dallas did not get enough with.

[Tim MacMahon]

The leftovers, you know, with the leftovers from that deal. By the way, Luca. There is already a Luca statue of crypto. Oh, no, that was just him playing defense last night. All right, all right, all right.

[Brian Windhorst]

So let me just go over some of the Lakers things. So. All right, so I said, you know, they don't need to acquire another star. They. They need a certain set of role players with set of skills like the Mavericks did. And those things are attainable. It. It's going to require good execution and, and, you know, good player evaluation, but it's attainable. So I said, they've got the, the draft picks, the draft pick on the swaps. They have a number of Expiring contracts. Maxi Kleba, Gabe Vincent Hachimura. We'll see what happens to Dorian Finney Smith. He has a 15 million dollar player option which he can opt out of and get a new contract. I'm not sure in this market where nobody has money and you know, the Lakers are incentivized to not incentivize to help him in a sign and trade that he opts out. But we'll see. That's.

[Tim MacMahon]

It could be a situation where he opts out. Takes a little bit of a pay cut here to get a longer deal with the Lakers too.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But a couple of things here. One, remember that last year and by the way LeBron, Bobby Marks put this all together. Since LeBron turned 40, he averaged 25, eight and eight. Okay? So yeah, he didn't look springy in game five. But he's not, we're gonna, he's probably not retiring and the Lakers are, you.

[Tim MacMahon]

Know, of course he's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I just don't want to be used against me later. All right? He has a 52 million dollar contract he can opt into or opt out of. And the key about that contract is that it's got a no trade clause in it, which I assume the Lakers would give him in a new contract. But you know, maybe I shouldn't assume, but that's key. If he, if he thought there for a second that the Lakers wouldn't give it to him again, he would have to opt in because he doesn't want that nonsense. He made a, he made sort of a, a little bit too close to the bone joke when he was asked after the game about why the Lakers need a center, which of course they do. And he's like, I'm, I'm not saying that.

[Kevin Pelton]

Like we was asked about playing center, which was he playing center in this series? I think.

[Tim MacMahon]

Was playing a lot of center.

[Kevin Pelton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean Dorian Finney Smith was started at center in game five, but anyway.

[Tim MacMahon]

Game four quite famously.

[Brian Windhorst]

But you know, LeBron's like, oh, the last guy who you know, he's like ad asked for a center, they traded him a week later. Which is a funny line. But obviously LeBron has a no trade clause so he can say whatever he wants. As I would like to remind you, last year after they drafted Bronnie, he offered to take a pay cut to help the Lakers get to the mid level exception. $14 million, give or take and sign a player. Of course he wanted to know who they were signing. He wasn't just going to hand the money back and then they wouldn't sign anybody or they signed a guy he didn't like. So I wonder if that can be re broached because with, you know, assuming Dorian Finney Smith doesn't get a huge raise, the Lakers are right at the luxury tax with LeBron Ops into the contract and they would have their taxpayer mid level about five and a half, 5.7 million if LeBron was willing to take an appreciable pay cut. And I'm, I don't want to count his money for him. I'm not, you know, but he did offer it last year. So the concept is not foreign. They could potentially get the full mid level exception and then they would have that plus these expiring contracts, plus the draft picks. I, what I'm saying is I think the Lakers have the ability to do what they need to do. It's just a matter of executing it well.

[Tim MacMahon]

And they're the freaking Lakers and they're in Los Angeles and like we're talking about these, you know, got to get a rim running big. Those guys are going to be lining up to play with Luca for the Lakers. Like, you know, who actually used to like once was pretty excited about the potential of playing with Luca. It's pretty funny. I'm not sure Rudy Gobert, when it was pretty obvious that he wanted to spend his whole career in Utah, but when it was pretty obvious that that might not be the way that thing was going that last year Dallas was atop his, his kind of silent list of preferred destinations. And there was a time where Mark Cuban and Nico Harrison were both very interested in that idea. The Mavericks knocked the Jazz out of the playoffs that year. Jason Kidd was not so upset about the idea of playing or of having Rudy Gobert. They couldn't have outbid the Timberwolves anyways. But then the Mavericks came around on this. Yeah, we'll, we'll get half the production on 20 of the salary. And they gave Javel McGee 20 of the salary. They didn't get production.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, Rudy signed an extension before the season. That won't be happening.

[Kevin Pelton]

You just got a player option though. Naz Reed.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's true.

[Tim MacMahon]

Not, not that type of center, but that's interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim MacMahon]

So really not a sinner, I would argue, but that's neither here nor there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he would help a lot of teams. I don't think, I don't think $14 million is going to get it done though.

[Tim MacMahon]

I would agree with that.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, and then I just want, before we move On I just want to point out the luca. This is all from Bobby Marks. I want to give him credit the Luca situation starting August 2nd. Okay, so he's going to get to watch what the Lakers do in the off season. He has options to extend his contract. He has one year left on his deal. Is that right?

[Tim MacMahon]

McMahon one plus a player option? Yes. By the way, that's August 2nd. Just to people might be wondering, why is it that late? This because it's the date that that contract was signed. And it was signed that late because the Mavericks respected his wishes to wait until after the Olympics with the Slovenian.

[Brian Windhorst]

National team where he led a brilliant run and almost won a bronze medal. One of the great runs in the modern era. And then the next year he got ejected from the game that was qualifying.

[Tim MacMahon]

Them for the Olympics and just saying something nice. My gosh.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, okay. So here is his are his options. He has one year plus player option, but let's be honest, he's got one year.

[Tim MacMahon]

Sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

He can sign a four year, $230 million max contract which added to the year that he's got, would make him under contract for five years. What Bobby thinks he will do and is more likely assuming he extends is a three year, $165 million extension. And the reason that you would do that is because at the end of that 3 years he then would have 10 years of service and can get a higher maximum of 35 of the cap.

[Tim MacMahon]

Or I could do both and have the four year with a player option on that last. On that last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But just. Just to show you the difference in the numbers, he could have, if Dallas had kept him, he could have signed a 345 million dollar extension this summer. Yep, now it's 230 million.

[Tim MacMahon]

Now 5 versus 4 years, but still a huge jump.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, it's like I said, it's not apples to apples because it is. And you know, he can make up some of that later, but you know, so we'll see. I mean we'll talk about all that a lot, but you know, that's definitely on the board for the Lakers. Okay, I do want to spend a moment here looking at this Warriors Rockets game that's coming up on Friday night. I'm just going to say that the first step towards blowing a 31 lead is laying down in game five. That doesn't mean that they're going to blow a 31 lead, but that is what they did. I think.

[Tim MacMahon]

31 lead if you win game five, that's for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, but laying down, and especially now. I said this today in one of my production meetings at espn, and one of the producers who's a Warriors fan, like, pointed out a couple of years ago when this happened, when they went to Memphis and laid down and then came back and took care of Memphis. I'm not saying that's right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. Draymond pointed out last night when he said they didn't play whoop that trick, but they might as well have.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so, fine. I just remember what I was thinking about watching that game was way back in 2015 when the Clippers blew their first 31 lead against the Rockets. They come into Houston and do a similar thing where they just totally don't take the game seriously, get blown out, and next thing you know, Pat Bev and was doing dancing and doing crazy stuff. And I'm just going to say that, yeah, you can focus on the decisions that went down in Game seven of that series, and you can attack Doc Rivers, which many people did, but they began falling apart in Game five. So I'm not saying that that's what's happening here. I'm just saying it's like I say, collapses always include a missed free throw. You blow a 31 lead. Starts out with not taking Game 5 seriously. Having said that, the Rockets were excellent. Amen. Thompson was excellent. And to me, everyone's focused on Steph's thumb because he was photographed. It was. It was a team photograph, by the way. It wasn't like it was a paparazzi with a long lens, the team photographed. It's a sponsored element, I believe, where they. The players are getting onto the plane, and they were going to, you know, to go to Game five. And people zoomed in on his. On his right thumb, and they saw a huge swelling, you know, in the joint, and people were freaking out. I will just say that he's been playing with this for weeks, and he's still playing pretty well. I'm kind of more worried about the Jimmy Butler glute because they need Jimmy.

[Tim MacMahon]

Butler, and they were worried about Jimmy. Jimmy Butler's pain in the ass in Miami all season long. Oh, wait, sorry. Different, Different.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're getting the full. The full treatment. Pelton.

[Tim MacMahon]

It's after midnight sort.

[Brian Windhorst]

So.

[Kevin Pelton]

After dark.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And, you know, hey, if you're the Timberwolves, you're like, come on. Come on, Houston. Yeah. I mean, it's. You know, we'll. You know, they're. They're not going to have home court either way. So they're like, all right, take Them to seven.

[Kevin Pelton]

Minnesota will have home court if Golden State wins.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, that's right. They were the six seed. I forgot.

[Kevin Pelton]

But, yeah, I think the longer series is a bigger deal. I mean, that was, you know, one of the concerns about the warriors coming into the series is that they had used a lot of gas in the fight to try to avoid the play and were unable to do so. Had to play the first play in game. And, you know, I think that probably was a factor in Steve Kerr's thinking going into Game 5, that he was ready to pull the plug and prep for Game six if things got away for them. And, you know, the good news is, like, Steph Curry is the only Golden State player who has played more than 150 minutes in this series in five games. He's the only one averaging or. Yeah, so only one averaging more than 30 minutes per game. Right. Right now. So, like, there's not the. They have not carried the heavy load in this particular series, but if it goes to seven, all of a sudden, that's going to be a dramatically different situation. Projecting ahead if they do win.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

And their two stars are banged up, and the Rockets know their two stars are banged up.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Dylan Brooks made that. I mean, you know, actions over words. But, you know, Dylan Brooks made it very clear he's aware.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, actions and words with Dylan Brooks. Right.

[Kevin Pelton]

Basically, like they usually match for him.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. Like, essentially, he was accused of targeting Steph Curry's thumb. He's like, yeah, if I've got a bad ankle, people are going to target that ankle, you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I'm going to hit that thumb when I can hit it. I'm sure they'll give, like, he's given Jimmy a little extra bump here and there, you know, when he can. So, you know, we'll. We'll see. Steph has. Like you said, Steph's been playing with that for quite some time. The Jimmy thing. You hope it gets better as the series goes and that this, the soreness and the stiffness kind of eases as the series goes. But, I mean, he was a shell of himself last night or Wednesday night when people were listening to this.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, there's the Jalen Green Factory. He could have 40. He could have four.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, I would say that he's been. He's had one big game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wow. So I'm saying he's maybe due for 40.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, that's true. He's had. Yeah. Van Vliet suddenly has caught fire.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's. Well, that's. That. You mean that's not, that's not as surprising. But yeah, Van Vliet has been a difference maker. All right, we'll. We'll follow up with that one. Okay. It's late.

[Tim MacMahon]

What?

[Brian Windhorst]

But we have a new month.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, yeah. Don't you.

[Brian Windhorst]

That means don't change me. That means we had an old month. I see you're wearing your amigos shirt there.

[Tim MacMahon]

Anaheimigos one and done. ABA team, baby, became the Los Angeles Stars than the Utah Stars. They stunk it up in Anaheim though, to be honest with you. I looked them up. But no, we're not to the adios amigos part because we do have CO's. Factor of the month for April will be heavily weighted obviously to the first round of playoffs and this will be the last one of the year because, you know, come second round, it's all cojones at this point. But I do want to give one regular season shout out and that's going to go to Harrison Barnes because Spurs weren't going to make the playoffs. But boy did it feel good for him to bump those warriors down to the play in. Not that team that just. He won a title with one of 73 games with the next season. They just booted him right out of town.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, speaking of the spurs, did you see the photo they released.

[Tim MacMahon]

I think where Victor has Grown to like 7 foot 11 now? Are you kidding me? Like other than David Robinson, this, this photo.

[Brian Windhorst]

Amazing. So it's their four rookies of the year. Oh, I don't know if they have another one, but I, you know.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, it was Duncan, David Robinson, Victor, and obviously Stefan Castle.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And to celebrate Castle winning, which he won in a landslide, my vote for Zachary Richache was are you in Bon Temps?

[Tim MacMahon]

The freaking French hipster vote. Spend all that damn time in pairs and you are wee, wee in your way to a freaking run around.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is, it is crazy. It's, it's. First off, it's just a great picture. Number one and number two, to see how much taller Victor is than Tim Duncan. And now I'm sure Tim Duncan and David Robinson maybe aren't at their top height of their, of their lives, but.

[Tim MacMahon]

They haven't shrunk six inches. He's going over them. Don't tell me he's seven foot three.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he was seven five when he came in the league. I have no idea what he's at now, but he was 75 when he came.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. Now what do they listen anyways? Harrison Barnes hitting that game winning buzzer beater the. The three over the war is going to get a shout out. So is the Lorenzo Charles impersonation by Aaron Gordon. Obviously, you know, to, to win that. What was it was that Game three. It's been such a long series. Game four, four in la. But we're going to focus on the brass. The silver and the gold and the brass tonight didn't count towards this, but boy, oh boy did you can call it an exclamation point on just a coone factor month season. He won the knockoff version that the NBA gives out for the regular season. Talking about Jaylen Brunson, of course, entering tonight in that series, Pelton you mentioned, he led the league in, in clutch points in these. In this first round. Entering tonight, 21 points, no turnovers in 15 clutch minutes. Just time after time after time. He puts on that cape that, that Tib City went to the locker room to get that one time. So yeah, Jan Brunson shout out tonight might have bumped him up a spot or two, but he's going to be the brass ball.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's kind of like like a baseball manager who like just wants to go to his closer.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like he sometimes even if it's like, if it's like late in the season like, and the closer's arm is kind of shot, he's like, this is who I trust. I trusted him all year.

[Tim MacMahon]

There's two outs in the seventh. Damn it, we did it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Exactly.

[Tim MacMahon]

You know, ain't gonna be no middle relief night.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, yeah. The closer is up in the seventh inning and his arm is dragging as he comes out of the bullpen. Just come on, give me six outs.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. You know, Brunson on that roommate show, he's got a Tommy John underwear deal. In this analogy, you might need Tommy John surgery.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that's right. So, but. So I guess, you know, after, you know, after seeing all that, it's. It's actually a great analogy. Go ahead.

[Tim MacMahon]

All right. The silver medalist. And not a guy who scored a lot in clutch in crunch time in this series. But I'm gonna give it to the Ant man, the guy whose favorite movie is Matilda.

[Brian Windhorst]

An underrated class, by the way, great Broadway production, Matilda.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm familiar with Broadway, but I have seen the movie.

[Kevin Pelton]

They don't have Broadway in, in Dallas.

[Tim MacMahon]

Not that I'm aware. No. We got a monopoly set here. Anyways, Anthony Edwards, 12 points, just 3 of 5 shooting in 11 clutch minutes in that series. A plus 20. Here's the stuff. Here's the stuff. Five assists, no turnovers in Crunch time of this series. Nut cutting time. That's those last three minutes. One possession, three assists, no turnovers, including the biggest assist of the series when he drove Drew. The whole defense kicks it out to Mike Conley for that dagger 3. Why is that so important? Why am I hyping that up so much? 160 clutch minutes this season. Ant was a minus 51 and he had 13 assists and 15 turnovers. The Wolves, maybe their biggest flaw all year was that Ant would revert. This is Wendy, where I was pushing back on you about. He always plays the right way. Their biggest flaw was he would revert to hero ball time and time.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sometimes he would push him into the clutch because they would be had a comfortable lead in the fourth quarter. And all of a sudden it's a clutch game, right?

[Tim MacMahon]

And it would be Ant hero ball. And a lot of times he'd be taking like terrible shots. Even though game winner he hit in in Houston. It's like. It's just like fading away. Three over, you know, two bodies. He made the right decision. Time after time after time. Again, it's a mature, distinguished version of cajones by Mr. Edwards here.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, his great line on that walk off when he's walking in the streets of LA yesterday wasn't just that Matilda was favorite movie. It was that the good guy's gonna die tonight.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, that's how it came up because he said. He said good guy. The good guy dies in this movie. It's just not gonna die in this movie.

[Brian Windhorst]

He died in this movie.

[Tim MacMahon]

Movie. And the guy said, ah, Lor Chestnut. Is Boys in the Hood your favorite movie? You know, we're in la. He said, nah, man, Matilda. Which is hilarious.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then I know Joe Missoula watches the town before he goes to bed every night. Can you see Ant just settling into Matilda to calm himself down?

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I forgot that.

[Kevin Pelton]

What's the.

[Tim MacMahon]

The strength coach lady's name in that movie? Helen? You probably know. Come on. Anyways, my wife always calls me her because remember when Cassidy was on here, she advises to get one of those hyperice, you know, like back rub massage type.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, massage.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, I wear the hell out of that thing. It's like an every morning thing. My wife tells me I look like that really mean lady who's like the. The PE Teacher. Matilda.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I don't remember her name, but Turnbull or some crap. Yeah, yeah, Mrs. Turnbull or whatever.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's right. That's the one. There you go. Anyways, time for the gold medalist. I think you guys can Probably. Guess who this is going to be. If you can't, I've got to question you. No guesses. The man hung so far down that his dad's banned from going to the. This was like these guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

I feel. I feel. You know, that's a. Yeah, he had to be banned, but I feel bad. And also, we'll say it was the way they. The way it was characterized by the Pacers, John Halliburton being. Being banned from games, quote, for the foreseeable future.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

What does that mean?

[Tim MacMahon]

But I don't know. But listen, man, I feel like we.

[Kevin Pelton]

Could have just put him in a suite just away from the court.

[Tim MacMahon]

Might be. Anyways, Tyrese Halberton talked his talk all series long. He always does. You know, I appreciate a man who runs his mouth. And he backed it up and he had the drive and the dunk to send that thing in ot. And then, you know, it wasn't series on the line for the Pacers, but the chance to close the series. There he is against the man that he wrestled for the game ball with. Giannis and a coupo just out there. One on one, blue by him. Little series in and layup. An unfortunate stare down by Pops. But series ending blow by layup.

[Kevin Pelton]

What was the T shirt? Overrate this or something?

[Tim MacMahon]

No, overrate that with a tweet. Yeah, might be an era ending blow by layup for Giannis and the Bucks. So listen, man, Tyrese Halliburton, like I said, the. The guy was yipping and yapping and. And chitting and chatting the whole series long, and he definitely got the last word. Cohen is factor player of the month for April. The gold medalist.

[Brian Windhorst]

What a. What a season of cojones factor.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hey, he'll enjoy this gold medal a lot more than he did that. That benchwarming gold medal that he got.

[Brian Windhorst]

I want to tell you that is not true. But. All right, the get up production meeting is in 15 minutes.

[Tim MacMahon]

When you sleep update, baby. Wendy, sleep update.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, boy. All right. Thank you, Mr. Pelton. Thank you, Mr. McMahon. Thank you to Jackson, the producer. Congratulations to Bontemps. Mostly congratulations to Mrs. Bontemps, but. All right, well, we'll allow it. Thank you for listening and watching with the Hoop Collective. We will talk to you in a couple of days.

[Tim MacMahon]

I definitely want to congratulate Bon Temps. I don't think he needs to join us again until that kid's at least done with kindergarten. Adios, amigos.

[Brian Windhorst]

It.