Bucks’ Collapse, Pistons & Nuggets Make Statements, Lakers Comeback Chances?

Summary

Hoop Collective Podcast Summary Episode: Bucks’ Collapse, Pistons & Nuggets Make Statements, Lakers Comeback Chances?
Release Date: April 30, 2025
Hosts: Brian Windhorst, Dave McMenamin, Marc Stein, Tim Bontemps

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Bucks' Dramatic Playoff Exit

Timestamp: [02:59] - [15:33]

In a stunning turn of events, the Milwaukee Bucks were eliminated from the playoffs after a heart-wrenching loss to the Indiana Pacers. The game was a rollercoaster, featuring standout performances and critical moments that ultimately led to Milwaukee's downfall.

Tyrese Halliburton's Heroics:
Tyrese Halliburton emerged as the hero for the Pacers, delivering decisive plays that sealed the victory. A pivotal moment came when Halliburton hit a game-tying dunk, forcing the game into overtime. In the extra period, his clutch drive and score secured the win for Indiana. Brian Windhorst highlighted Halliburton's impact, stating, "Tyrese Halliburton with a signature moment against Giannis in that play that was unfortunately overshadowed by antics afterward" ([10:18]).

Gary Trent Jr.'s Struggles:
Despite Gary Trent Jr.’s impressive 30+ points, his performance was marred by two critical turnovers in the final moments. Windhorst emphasized, "The Pacers threw two double teams at the Bucks. The Bucks defeated both double teams... But the ball comes to Gary Trent wide open on the wing. It just goes through his legs like a little league shortstop" ([07:24]).

Post-Game Controversy:
The aftermath saw tensions rise as Tyrese Halliburton's father, John Halliburton, engaged in a confrontation with Giannis Antetokounmpo. Brian Windhorst shared his personal connection with John, expressing, "John Halliburton... loves him [Tyrese]. He is such a defender of his son" ([12:53]). The exchange led to apologies from both sides, but the moment tainted what was otherwise a standout performance for Halliburton.

Giannis' Playoff Performance:
Giannis Antetokounmpo, despite averaging impressive stats over the last ten playoff games, faced scrutiny as the Bucks struggled with a 1-9 record in that span. Windhorst pointed out, "In the last 10 playoff games that he's played, he has averaged 30 points, 16 rebounds, 6, 6 or 7 assists on over 50% shooting. And they are 1 and 9. That is just an indictment" ([17:22]).

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Detroit Pistons vs. New York Knicks: A Gritty Battle

Timestamp: [15:36] - [31:11]

The Detroit Pistons showcased their resilience by extending their playoff series against the New York Knicks with a commanding victory at Madison Square Garden. This series has been marked by intense fourth-quarter showdowns and standout performances from both teams.

Key Performances:

• Cade Cunningham: Despite a challenging series start, Cunningham stepped up with crucial plays, including a key assist to Jalen Duran. Marc Stein noted, "He [...] had a brilliant pass to Jalen Duran" ([25:33]).
• Tobias Harris: An often-criticized signing, Harris proved his worth by contributing significantly with 17 points and 8 rebounds, as highlighted by Brian Windhorst: "Tobias Harris 17 points, which was a draw with Carl" ([28:22]).
• Julius Randle: Randle dominated the series offensively, showcasing his physical prowess and playmaking abilities. Marc Stein commended, "Julius Randall is going to be a load because he can create and he is [...] a big physical bully ball dribble creator and that's, that's been huge in this series" ([40:39]).

Game Dynamics:
The Pistons' young core demonstrated remarkable growth, turning what was expected to be a tough series into a competitive battle. Marc Stein praised their experience, saying, "It's awesome experience for a bunch of guys who are playing their first playoff series" ([25:17]).

Knicks' Bench Contributions:
The Knicks' depth was on display with Mitchell Robinson and Miles McBride providing crucial support. Brian Windhorst observed, "Mitchell Robinson had 13 and 11 and two steals and two blocks... And Miles McBride [...] he was effective" ([28:42]).

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Denver Nuggets' Commanding Playoff Presence

Timestamp: [31:11] - [47:12]

The Denver Nuggets solidified their playoff aspirations by taking a 3-2 series lead against the Los Angeles Clippers, showcasing both star power and the depth of their roster.

Jamal Murray's Stellar Performance:
Jamal Murray delivered one of the best playoff games of his career, scoring 43 points with 8 three-pointers. Marc Stein highlighted, "This is the Jamal Murray that the Nuggets paid a max contract to last summer, which is a questionable decision, but [...] he was an all-star in this one. 8 of 14 on threes, 43 points" ([44:20]).

Defensive Excellence:
The Nuggets effectively contained Clippers' star Nikola Jokic, holding him to 4 of 13 shooting. Brian Windhorst emphasized, "They hold Jokic, too. [...] If you're the Clippers, you let [...] how they held Jokic to 4 of 13 shooting" ([43:10]).

Team Depth:
Denver's role players stepped up significantly, with Russell Westbrook contributing 21 points and Christian Brown adding crucial baskets. Windhorst remarked, "Russell Westbrook, 8 of 15, hit 3 out of 6 threes, 21 points" ([44:20]).

Clippers' Struggles:
The Clippers faced issues with shooting efficiency and turnovers, particularly from key players like Kawhi Leonard and James Harden. Windhorst noted, "James Harden had an offensive dud tonight, three of nine... Michael Porter Jr. Plus 34. [...] Kawhi played 37 minutes and they're minus seven" ([46:36]).

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Lakers' Struggle Against the Timberwolves

Timestamp: [32:42] - [51:30]

The Los Angeles Lakers found themselves battling elimination against the Minnesota Timberwolves, grappling with strategic decisions and the emergence of young talents on the opposing side.

Coaching Decisions:
JJ Redick faced criticism for his halftime substitution decisions, which many believe contributed to the Lakers' collapse. Tim Bontemps defended Redick, stating, "He made the decision at halftime to make that switch... he wasn't going to just have him go in for 45 seconds of cardio" ([34:01]).

Anthony Edwards' Impact:
Anthony Edwards emerged as a standout performer for the Timberwolves, leading his team with aggressive play and scoring. Marc Stein lauded Edwards, saying, "Anthony Edwards has been the best player in the series and he's willed the Timberwolves to a 3-1 lead" ([35:20]).

Team Fatigue and Depth Issues:
The Lakers struggled with fatigue and a shallow roster, failing to protect the paint and relying too heavily on their starters. Brian Windhorst pointed out, "The Lakers are too shallow, which everybody knows... They don’t have a big... they don’t have a good defense" ([38:24]).

Player Performances:
Despite LeBron James and Luka Doncic showing signs of exhaustion, their performances in the crucial fourth quarter were lackluster. Windhorst reflected, "LeBron didn't score in the fourth" ([37:58]).

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Conclusion: Implications and Future Outlook

Timestamp: [51:11] - End

The episode wrapped up with reflections on the ongoing playoff battles and the future implications for the teams involved.

Celtics' Dominance:
Jason Tatum continued to make strides, passing legendary players on the all-time playoff scoring list and solidifying his role as a key player for the Boston Celtics. Windhorst noted, "Tatum tonight passed Patrick Ewing, Robert Parish and Charles Barkley on the all-time career playoff scoring list. He's now 35th in NBA history" ([51:05]).

Overall Playoff Landscape:
The hosts discussed the potential paths forward for the Nuggets, Pistons, and other playoff contenders, emphasizing the depth and resilience required to advance. Brian Windhorst concluded, "The Nuggets have home court. They get to play game seven at home and they look like a championship team tonight again" ([45:14]).

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Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst ([02:59]): "Tyrese Halliburton with a signature moment against Giannis in that play that was unfortunately overshadowed by antics afterward."
• Marc Stein ([25:33]): "He [...] had a brilliant pass to Jalen Duran."
• Tim Bontemps ([34:01]): "He made the decision at halftime to make that switch... he wasn't going to just have him go in for 45 seconds of cardio."

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This episode of Hoop Collective provided an in-depth analysis of the latest NBA playoff developments, highlighting key performances, strategic decisions, and the emotional highs and lows experienced by the teams and players involved. Whether it's the Bucks' unexpected exit, the Pistons' promising young core, the Nuggets' championship aspirations, or the Lakers' uphill battle, the hosts offered comprehensive insights that captured the essence of this pivotal playoff season.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Wednesday morning after midnight. Joining us from Los Angeles, California, proudly filling in for Tim Bontemps is Syracuse's own Dave McMenamin.

[Tim Bontemps]

Happy to be here. Timmy B. Don't get Wally pipped.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I'm saying it could happen. Timmy be. I don't even know who he is. Can't remember. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he continues to luxuriate after covering a sweep. It's band McMahon.

[Marc Stein]

Howdy, partners. I think this should be more like a Norm Nixon, Magic Johnson type of situation. And we can get that, that scene where they're playing one on one in the suits from what, what's the show? Help me out.

[Tim Bontemps]

Winning time. Winning time.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, I've seen, I've seen Bontemps hoop. Now he does brag Mac 10 about swatting your shot.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, yeah. Okay, there we go. We had a whole two minutes before that came up, but sure, he did get me. He got me.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Marc Stein]

Hit the final game winner.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Marc Stein]

He sent me a thank you card. Referencing.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so a big night in the NBA on Tuesday. Four playoff games. I'm sure it's happened before where there's been four playoff games. Game fours or fives, I don't remember. But it felt like a pretty big night. I guess they were all game fives. All right, I want to start with what went down in Indianapolis. Just a tremendous game. A lot happened. Most importantly, the Bucks were eliminated. Why the Pacers? Tyrese Haliburton with a game winner. Well, he had a, he had a game tying dunk to force overtime on a, on a power drive. And then in overtime, it's an incredible drive and score. But really what happened was the Bucks were so gritty in this game and Gary Trent Jr. Played the role of Damian Lillard. I don't even know what he had. 30 something points. But guys, and I know the thing happened with Tyrese Halliburton's dad, John, after the game, which I'll talk about, we'll talk about in a minute. I, you know, I, I know Halliburton had this great moment where he jumps on the scorers table, Dwyane Wade style, celebrating his, his, his great play. And then he tweets after the game, overrate that. Which I know caught Dave in a special place because it was kind of a Kobe reference. Right, Dave?

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, yeah. So we, we got two references here. The amnesty that obviously Kobe Bryant after beating the Dallas Mavericks on a fade away when Mark Cuban had suggested that the Lakers should amnesty and move off him. But also we get the Coach Boeheim overrated drop here. When you talk about Jerry McNamara after he took Syracuse, I think you're being a little.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think you're, you're making Jackson, you're making Jackson tear up. But I, I do not think that Tyrese Halliburton was referencing on Jerry McNamara amnesty.

[Marc Stein]

That for sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Marc Stein]

Mark Cuban flaps his gums on the bid and skin show on the old 103.3 FME ESPN in Dallas. It's now like a whack job religious station or some such. And then Kobe lit him up and then let them know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's just, just so our, you know, our listeners and viewers know, there was this thing back when Kobe was playing where you could use something called an amnesty where you could basically take a player's contract and put it off your books. It was something for salary cap relief and like players who had big contracts who were no longer worth their contracts. Goddamnested. A couple of big names and you know, Kobe was coming back off the Achilles and you know, was bonding, big money and you know, whatever. But so, but the way Kobe tweeted it was amnesty that t h a t in all caps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And that. And that was exactly the way that Tyrese tweeted it. Which, you know, and by the way that, you know, Tyrese was a teenager when that went down. There's no way Tyrese wasn't really remembering that.

[Marc Stein]

Oh, plus, he's a guy. Like, he's a. He's got a puma deal now. But he was a guy who wore coat. Yes. Like, yeah, he was right. He was a Kobe guy and you know, fact, he was just. Obviously that's referencing him just being named the most overrated player in the NBA by the Athletics Anonymous poll, which Carlile had his little thing. But I tell you what a moment though. It took a complete collapse by the Bucks to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's what I want to talk about. I mean, I, I, we'll talk about Tyrese's moment in a second. Oh, here's the, here's the stat from espn. Stat, stats and information. And guys, it's a jaw dropper. Okay? So first off, let me just say, in every collapse, or if you want to call it, in every comeback, there's always a missed free throw. You've heard me say this in the past. It is going to hold true like almost all the time. But when AJ Green hit a free throw with 40 seconds left in this game, the Bucks went up by seven points. 40 seconds left in overtime. Seven points, 40 seconds left. AJ Green missed the second free throw, which is the one I'll always, always miss. Free throw. But nonetheless, here is the stat. Since the play by play era happened. In other words, since. Where's databases for this? You know, it's 1997. Basically, since 1997, teams were oh and 1609 in the playoffs. And I gotta imagine it wasn't much better in the regular season in terms of winning percentage. Oh, in 1600 when trailing by at least seven points in the last 40 seconds of the fourth quarter overtime. Now the number is going to be really high because if you're down 27, you're not catching up. But the point is, you got a three possession lead with 40 seconds left. You are generally home free. Okay? And not only did the Bucks lose, they lost. I mean, not only did they, you know, lose the lead, but they lost the game. They gave up an 80 run in the last 40 seconds. And this is what the story of this game is about. I, I mean, you, you, you, you can look at other things. You know, we're going to talk about what happened in the extracurricular after the game. In a moment. Gary Trent had two turnovers including. The Pacers are desperate. Well, first off, Andrew Nemhardt hit like a 30 footer. That was a huge three. That was a big moment that cut the lead from seven to four. But Gary Trent has back to back turnovers. And the second one was just back breaking. The Pacers threw two double teams at the Bucks. The Bucs defeated both double teams. They got the ball out of both double teams. And the ball comes to Gary Trent wide open on the wing. I mean, he's, he can shoot the three if he wants or he can just stand there and dribble the ball out. The ball just goes through his legs. Ball just goes through his legs like a, like a little league shortstop.

[Tim Bontemps]

After touching his hands, though, Brian. It touched his hands and then dribbled through his legs, which is, it wasn't just a full width. It was like I. He just lost control of it. It was brutal because he played so well in overtime too. Like, that's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he played great all game.

[Marc Stein]

I mean, he had so many big.

[Brian Windhorst]

Shots, eight or nine threes. He was awesome. So he's the hero. He goes from here to go because, you know, going back to game six at home in Milwaukee, obviously the, the Bucks would. Had momentum. No Dame, you know, I, who knows that set, that sets you up to potentially seven. And then what I thought was amazing. And I, and I, and I haven't read all the interviews from post game, but the Bucks, you know, so the Bucks are on defense, in ball gets inbounded, no timeouts. And the Pacers call a play. Pascal Siakam comes up and sets the screen for Halliburton. Giannis switches. As far as I can read by watching that, I think they ran the plate to get Tyrese Isoed on Giannis. Right? Like there's no other way to read that. It'll look like I have some texts out to some Pacers coaches and I heard back from, I just realized I heard back from one of them and they said we trusted Ty to make a play. Balls.

[Marc Stein]

I mean, I just hope he kept the game ball. Speaking of balls, I know that's in this, in this heated rivalry that they have, but look, man, you know, all like, Tyrese Halberton was talking trash the whole series long when it came time to end the thing one on one against the, you know, the best player on the Bucks, the best, one of the top two or three best players in the world, beats them off the dribble gets the layup. You know, there are all this silliness after that. Like, forget about all the silliness after that. What a moment for Tyrese Halliburton who, you know, and one thing about like all the trash talking between him and Dame and like it got heated, you know, Halliburton said after Dame went down, look, that it, it's, that's competitiveness. Like he wears zero because of Dame. He's got that same sort of like I want the rock in those moment type of things that that Dame made a career out of. And this was his, you know, it wasn't a buzzer beater, but it was basically his walk off series ending moment.

[Tim Bontemps]

It reminded me of a game he had last year in the playoffs as well, where he turned what looked like a sure loss into a victory. And this is the way he's been able to build his legacy. And I like, he was one of the guys in the U.S. olympic team that looked like maybe had no business being there. He didn't get much playing time, and he wondered if he was kind of benefiting from the All Star Game in Indiana last year and, you know, the, the paces needed to prop up a candidate, maybe the weaker Eastern Conference, etc. Etc.

[Marc Stein]

Well, the, the lighter benefited him last year, right? But a rough, physical playoff series, and that guy got it done time after time after time. And then, you know, in the final.

[Brian Windhorst]

Moments, Jackson tells us that Gary Trent only had one turnover in. In the whole series leading up to that. I mean, tough man, but. But listen, this is a moment for Tyrese Halliburton to celebrate making those two plays. And he just, he gets the key, crosses over, he gets the corner turned on Giannis. I'm not sure what the Bucks principles are. Kevin Porter Jr. I don't know what he's supposed to do there. I assume that Giannis, they don't necessarily, you know, normally have to help Giannis. Halliburton goes right past him as if. As if he was passing them on, you know, on the subway. Just right past him and just totally great shot. And so there's a lot that comes out of this. Tyrese Aliburton with a signature moment against Giannis in that play that was unfortunately.

[Marc Stein]

Overshadowed by complete foolishness by his dad, but whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, all right, so then the game ends. You know, these teams don't like each other. And Giannis is involved in what I can tell are two different confrontations.

[Marc Stein]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

One, John Halliburton, Tyrese's father, who is well known. And let me just say I have a personal relationship with John and I love him. I have spent time with him across the planet. Abu Dhabi, Manila, Paris, Las Vegas. I have, you know, I've been with him and spent some time with him. Love him, love his passion. He is such a defender of his son. So proud that his son came up from, you know, Oshkosh, Wisconsin. No. And you know, talk to me about Tyrese's youth when, like nobody appreciate, you know, all the kids from Milwaukee, you know, he and Tyler hero kind of had similar upbringings in, you know, non urban Wisconsin, where nobody regarded them. They just saw these kids from the sticks. And John still lives in Oshkosh and still, I don't know if he's still rough. He's like a referee at the. With the Y. I mean, um, anyway, having said all that. Can't do it. First off, you can't come on the court and.

[Marc Stein]

And you definitely can't stare down the guy who just got his guts ripped out and what might be his final moments in walk uniform and talk trash to him. And basically like you're asking for a confrontation there. And look, John Halbert knows it. He tweeted it. I sincerely apologize to Giannis, the Milwaukee Bucks and the Pacers organization from actions following tonight's game. This is not a good reflection on our sport or my son, and I will not make that mistake again. You know, Tyrese knows that. He said my pops was not in the right. You know, Giannis said what he had to say. It's unfortunate that John Halliburton let his giddiness get the best of him. Want to talk some trash. And overshadowed what was the best moment of his son's career to this point.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. And okay, so I think Pat Connaughton got there first. He steps in, Buck security steps in. Then Giannis goes back and basically has words with John Halliburton.

[Marc Stein]

D.J. mcConnell came over there, too, trying to kind of.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Marc Stein]

You know, make sure things didn't escalate.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then I. Giannis had words with him, which I. Which I think were kind of what Giannis probably said in the post game, which was. That was disrespectful. But they left on decent terms then. Well, I don't think it was decent. They. They parted.

[Marc Stein]

Like, Giannis said what he had to say and how John Halberton heard it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Then Giannis gets sort of chest to chest with James Johnson, which is the wrong position to be in.

[Marc Stein]

I think James Johnson was trying to come in and kind of de. Escalate other things. He also got in. He got into a Benedict Matheran.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Benedict Matheran runs his mouth, too, now.

[Marc Stein]

He does. And it seemed like Giannis was telling him something along those lines. Giannis kind of had him by the back of the head, neck area, you know, like grabbing it, like, let me tell you something. And there was some push in. And so I think James Johnson was coming in as a well trained peacemaker.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well trained in mma.

[Marc Stein]

That's what I mean.

[Brian Windhorst]

But then I saw Giannis and James Johnson, like, wearing each other's face. And then they had another. A separate pow wow, where they left on good terms. So a lot of shenanigans went down there. I don't think any of them are relevant. But I. But I do want to go back to what you said about Rick Carlisle Rick Carlisle defended Tyrese Halliburton, which you know, it's not surprising that he would when he was labeled most overrated. And then he put the ball in his hands against Giannis and Tyrese Albert and delivered. And to me, that's the story of this game. It's not the shenanigans afterwards.

[Marc Stein]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Marc Stein]

Be honest, his numbers in this series are insane.

[Brian Windhorst]

And now we come not close to.

[Marc Stein]

You know, they got balanced in five games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now we come to the other Devastating stat for the bucks, the last 10 playoff games that Giannis has played in. And this is what Giannis is going to have to confront in the off season. And he, he pushed off. He was asked about his future and about whether he can still win championships in Milwaukee after the game. And he basically said, I don't want to talk about that right now. And I respect that.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

In the last 10 playoff games that he's played, he has averaged 30 points, 16 rebounds, 6, 6 or 7 assists on over 50% shooting. And they are 1 and 9. That is just an indictment. And I know that there's been injuries. I know that there's been things out of their control.

[Marc Stein]

Well, there's injuries moving forward, so. And things.

[Brian Windhorst]

But how can you look at that if you're Giannis? Like, look, if he says, I just want to be a Buck, I respect it. But if he says he wants to win, I'm not trying to be a.

[Marc Stein]

You can't.

[Brian Windhorst]

What am I supposed to. What, What, Dave? What's he supposed to say?

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, whom are we indicting, Brian?

[Brian Windhorst]

We're indicting the Bucks and their future. You know, that's where we're indicted.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was John Horse just rewarded with a contract extension before this playoffs be.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was actually in the middle of the playoffs.

[Marc Stein]

And look, I'll say this for John Horst. He's made two massive blockbuster trades that have gotten Giannis to sign extensions. The first one, Drew Holiday, led immediately to a championship. The second one, Damian Lillard, didn't work the way anybody hoped that it would in Milwaukee. And obviously that was even before the achilles.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's the third. Third player in postseason history with a 30. 2010 game and a loss. The other two were Jokic and Lu Alcinder in before he changed his name to Cream. Abdul Jabbar.

[Marc Stein]

Another buck.

[Brian Windhorst]

Another. Another buck, which, you know, did. How'd that end? Not great.

[Tim Bontemps]

I just think the conversation will shift between us and between everyone else in the league immediately to what's the best place for him to go because clearly he's been spinning his wheels since 2021 and at least. Right. One playoff series win since 2021, since he won the championship with one of the most dominant clinching games we've seen in the history of basketball. Yeah, he's top three MVP finish this year. But when your big mid season acquisition for this team was Kyle Kuzma. I know. I've been a Kyle Kuzma supporter in the past. I saw him play his best basketball. His career in the. The bubble for the Lakers, but he hasn't been that guy either.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kyle Kuzma wasn't the guy tonight. He was basically nailed to the bench in this game. He played 13 minutes at an overtime game. Brooke Lopez, by the way, played eight minutes.

[Tim Bontemps]

I believe he had as many turnovers as made field goals in the series.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not ideal.

[Marc Stein]

All right, but look, Giannis answered it by not answering the question tonight, which, look, he can either lie, he can be honest, or he cannot answer. But not answering is, is a form of honesty. Of course he's not looking. Like, how could he look at this situation and think, you know what, hey man, we're gonna be okay. Like we're gonna be able to contend. Of course he doesn't like how. He'd be delusional to think he's gonna have a chance to continue to contend for champion or to, I should say to contend for championships again with Milwaukee, because he obviously hasn't for these last few years. And like Dave said, it, it's definitely going to shift. And like, it's not like nobody's been talking about this before, but it's definitely going to shift to what's the best fit, what's the most reasonable fit for Giannis among the teams that would have interest in assets to be able to pull off that kind of a trade.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, the other gigantic game that took place on Tuesday night, the Detroit Pistons go into Madison Square Garden and extend the series with a huge victory over the Knicks. I gotta say, probably two of the biggest moments of the postseason so far happened over the weekend when Aaron Gordon throws down the immaculate put back or whatever. I don't even know. That's not even a good. I heard, I heard Brian Anderson say that tonight on tnt. I don't know if that's the nomenclature for it or whatever it is. That's a one off moment in NBA history and could end up swinging that series. Denver goes up 3 2. And then the other one was the non call on Tim Hardaway Jr. Getting fouled. Because obviously if they call that foul and Hardaway makes 2 of 3 free throws, if he makes 1 of 3, they go to overtime. He makes 2 or 3. It's now the Pistons up 3 2. We'll never know what would have happened tonight at the Pistons done that. But certainly if you're a Piston fan, you're you, you hold your head on that. But nonetheless, all of these games, I, I know in, in game one, the, the Knicks ran away with it late, but all of these games have been decided in the fourth quarter and the last four games have come down to it. And the reason that the Knicks were ahead was because Jalen Brunson was great in these fourth quarters. Carl Townsend has had some moments too. Jalen Brunson wasn't tonight. He was 416. And then in a moment that really defined what happened in the game, Jalen Brunson re tweaked his right ankle with about three minutes to go in a, in a two point game and had to come out of the game. Josh Hart also had to come out of the game and they were out for two minutes. And in that stretch, Cade Cunningham, who had 13, he didn't have a great overall night. Kate Cunningham, by his standards. It was, it was. Considering it was an elimination game, his first ever elimination game. It was a great game on the road, but he's had more prolific games. But he goes six or 17, but he made like three plays and including a brilliant pass to Jalen Duran, I believe. And the Knicks or the Pistons go up six points and the Knicks have three consecutive empty possessions without their late game hero in there. And he's, you know, they had to call. The thing is, Tibbs had to call timeout because he's got Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson out. Josh Hart's laying on the ground and Brunson's limping, so he has to call timeout and he doesn't even have the ball, I don't think. Or maybe they had the ball. Yeah, they did have the ball, but. But he's got a call timeout for an injury stoppage. So he's only got one left and he's got his, you know, two vitally important players, his best offensive player and his best defensive player. His most versatile defensive player at this table. And they can't get in for like two or three possessions. Two or three vital possessions. Detroit makes it a, you know, a six point lead and then New York can't overcome it. Mikhail Bridges, by the way, hit a couple of big shots down the stretch. He had 13 points in the fourth quarter. It wasn't like they didn't play well. They played well enough to win, but that stretch was defining. I thought that defined the game. And you know, Azur Thompson had his, by far his biggest playoff game of all time. You know, he's not, he's not an offensively skilled player, but he went 8 of 10, he missed six free throws, but still an 8 of 10. And that was vital scoring for the Pistons because it was not one of the games where their Role players were hitting a ton of shots. So this is gritty series. And now, you know, the Pistons have a chance McMahon to go home and try to force a game seven.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah. And it's awesome experience for a bunch of guys who are playing their first playoff series. You know, obviously they've got some bets. Tobias Harris, by the way, they were criticized for that signing. He's really been big for them this year. You know, it didn't put up.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was still an overpay. But he has been great in this series.

[Marc Stein]

But it was an overpay. That looks not like they're going to hit the salary cap.

[Brian Windhorst]

I understand, by the way. I'm just making a. I'm just responding.

[Marc Stein]

You're right. But it was, it's. He's been well worth what they've paid him. Not just because of the production, the space that he brings, but he's been a crucial veteran for that group. But man, I was extremely impressed with Kade Cunningham tonight. Yeah, six of seven or six of 17, five turnovers. Sure. That dude was in attack mode all night long. Got to the line 12 times, 24, 8 and 8. You know, another Kobe reference. He definitely had some Kobe assists, including one critical one where, you know, he draw. He's drawing three guys as he's attacking the basket and Jalen Dern's there to clean up the trash and get a dunk during that stretch. You know, that guy has proven himself to be a superstar this year and is showing in this series that he's ready for this. He's. He's not at. Oh yes, intimidated by the moment.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Brian, you did mention the Pistons role players maybe not in as many shots. You might have missed. One of the shots taken. We'll see if it was hit by Malik Beasley post game where he decided to quote a Knicks fan who said, quote tweeted Nick's fan who said, you know, watch out, Malik Beasley's getting a 44 next game and Beasley not Malik Beasley. Malik Beasley got a tweet about Mikhail Bridges who said, watch out, Mikhail Bridges getting 44 next game. And Malik Beasley quote, tweeted and said minutes.

[Marc Stein]

That. That probably.

[Tim Bontemps]

Probably actually a little ammo for the next.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he's not afraid to. You know, he's not. You know, he's not a great air grade A trash talker, but he's not afraid to say stuff. I love it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, he.

[Marc Stein]

He got. He's got trash talk body language with that shimmy. Doesn't like when got a shimmy on him. Ohanis did to him earlier this or not too long ago. Pretty recently this season. But man, no fun series. Not a pretty series, but this is a battle. And again, I love seeing the Pistons, a bunch of guys, you know, for the most part, who hadn't been in this, in this situation, hadn't been on the stage. This is Madison Square Garden coming off of a. Just a gut wrenching loss. So they feel like they got screwed if they don't show up. The season's over. And dude, whether they are able to, you know, make a historic run and come back and win the series or not, I'm impressed by the Pistons. Like, this is good stuff from a, from a young core that's got a chance to be together for a while.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And by the way, Tobias Harris 17 points, which was a draw with Carl.

[Marc Stein]

Towns and guarded Towns a lot.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yep. Who steals four blocks in addition to eight rebounds. I mean that's, that's, you know, six stocks in a road elimination game. Like that's, that's playmaking right there.

[Marc Stein]

Hey, he had a better year than Paul George did, I'll tell you that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Empirically true. I thought the Knicks actually got good play from their bench in this game. Their bench outplayed the Pistons bench. Mitchell Robinson had 13 and 11 and two steals and two blocks. And I think he had eight offensive rebounds. Like there was a bunch of possessions that, you know, he saved because he got the ball. And you know, Miles McBride, you know, his stats don't look so good, but you know, he, he was, you know, effective. They didn't just totally wither when Brunson was on the bench. They, I think, you know, he, he gave them some good minutes. So, you know, they actually, Tibbs actually, you know, played those guys. In fact, believe it or not, Tibs didn't play anybody 40 minutes in this game, which, you know, like he actually played a rotation that, you know, he played an eight man rotation and, and he got the, the starters all had production. Anunoby at 18, you know, Josh Hart had 15, seven rebounds, six assists, two steals, two blocks. Like, you know, Brunson, other than Brunson having a bad shooting night.

[Marc Stein]

And Cat, they've got to have either Brunson or Cat put up.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true.

[Marc Stein]

But what I'm saying is neither one of them did. They had, they combined for 33 points on 30 field goal attempts. It's gonna be really hard for them to win.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Knicks didn't lay an egg. The Pistons just took it. Yeah, is, is what I wanted is is the point I'm trying to make. And, and that's really what was in, what was key. And so this, you know, I mean, like, probably the Knicks are going to win because the idea that the Pistons could win three in a row is a big ask. But like, the difference in these games is in, is, you know, you can't, you can put a sheet of paper between these two teams and, you know, so it's hard to know which way it'll go. Obviously the, the, you know, the Pistons have got to be, you know, sick that they lost games three and four at home. To lose two home games is just brutal. But, you know, they get a chance to, to win and force a game seven if they can get it done on Thursday night.

[Marc Stein]

Here's a Cade Cunningham stat courtesy of Syracuse educated Jackson.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Marc Stein]

Only players to average 25, 8 and 8 in their first five career playoff games. Luka Oscar Robertson, Cade Cunningham. Not bad company. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Brian Windhorst]

We're going to talk about a really important game, which was the game I was at in Miami on Monday night, which the cows won by 55. Just kidding. Just kidding. Boy, was I glad I went down there for that one. That was a highly efficient use of my time.

[Marc Stein]

Hey, get those violins out, baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. No, I always love going to playoff games in Miami. No, we're going to swing it over to Los Angeles. We got two teams Los Angeles to talk about. The Nuggets took a 32 series lead on Tuesday night, winning at home over the Clippers. But we got a humongous game Wednesday night that Mr. McMenamin will be [e-mail] where the Lakers try to stave off elimination against the Wolves. Dave, a lot has been reacted to and said about JJ Redick's decision to not substitute in the second half. You went to his press conference that he had and he basically said, I don't take it back. If I'm not mistaken, what was your viewpoint of the way that played out and what's left? The lakers facing a 31 series deficit here.

[Tim Bontemps]

You might have heard this before, Brian. JJ Redick is a very self assured young man, some may even say stubborn.

[Brian Windhorst]

Listen, he went to Duke.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's, that's your contribution. I knew you were going to add that context that helps us paint the full picture of the man. He, in my opinion, has nothing to apologize for. He made the decision at halftime to make that switch, picked the right time to do it in the series, seemingly because that group responded with a 140 run to begin the third quarter with Dorian Finney Smith, the 69 switchable forward in there for Jackson Hayes. They won the quarter convincingly as well. It wasn't just that start to the quarter, 36 to 23. Checked in with these guys in between the third and fourth quarter, told them, listen, if you need a blow, tell me we have timeouts, we'll use them. And that group had a seven point lead with four and a half minutes ago in the game. At that point, when you have gone 17 of the 24 minutes of the second half, you're going to bring in Gabe Vincent or Jared Vanderbilt or.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, you're bringing them in to start the fourth quarter. So.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I mean, but you've, you've already blown past that red light, so.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh yeah, no, he, I agree, I agree. With 4 minutes to go there they were Thelma and Louise, you know, but I just, I, I, Luca and LeBron got tired, in my view.

[Marc Stein]

Well, and look, it didn't work out for them. They look like they ran out of gas. Anthony Edwards, who played the whole second half as well, certainly did not run out of gas. And that to me, Anthony Edwards is, is the guy who we need to be talking about. I agree in the series, like hey, let's give credit to this 23 year old ascending superstar who is, has snatched control of this series. And you know, we can nitpick JJ Redick's coaching decision, I think it's, it's highly questionable, second guessable, all that kind of stuff. But the reason, the primary reason the Lakers have their backs against the wall is because Anthony Edwards has been the best player in the series and he's willed the Timberwolves to a 31 lead.

[Tim Bontemps]

I just see more TV Time Inc. Hand wringing when it comes to NBA coverage goes into minutes and waiver wire acquisitions than anything else. And they are both misnomers. They both amount to nothing quite frankly. These guys are high level athletes. They have the adrenaline in the moment, they know what they're doing. They condition themselves year round to be in this moment. You know, Nico Harrison might have something to say about that with one of the guys on the court in game four, but I don't have a problem with it, honestly. And you could say they got tired. You could say it was an anomaly that, that Luka missed a layup. Anomaly that LeBron missed one. Anomaly that Austin Reeves missed two butt naked threes that he's going to make every other day of his life. They had a call go against them, which the NBA, you know, admitted to, that there should have been two free throws for Luka with about 33 seconds left to go in the game. They're down one, they could have been up one and had a totally different complexion to the end of things. And by the way, late in the third quarter, JJ Reddick tried to sub in, Gabe Vincent brought him to the scorers table. There was no break in the action from the 138 mark when he brought him over till it went below 50 seconds. And so you know, he pulled him back to the bench at that point because he wasn't going to just have him go in for 45 seconds of cardio if a break even came. And let's say that happens. Let's say Gabe Vincent goes in with a minute 38 to go and they lose the game. And then we don't have this big stat that everyone's talking about that no coach ever in the last 27 years has played five guys for the entirety of the second half. And let's say they still lose, but that stat doesn't exist. Like is J.J. getting the same type of strike? Like I don't know man, I, I don't know. I would just I just don't buy it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Luka and LeBron look tired. LeBron didn't score in the fourth.

[Marc Stein]

They. They combined to go one of eight in the fourth quarter.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I mean, the. I mean, there's.

[Tim Bontemps]

LeBron took two shots. LeBron also had a block at the rim on Dante Vincenzo.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I agree. He used.

[Tim Bontemps]

He didn't look too tired on that one.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I agree. He used to. You've watched LeBron for decades. He. He moderates his energy and he rests during the game. It's one of the great things he's learned to do during his career is rest during the game. I'm not saying he's.

[Marc Stein]

It's.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's one of the things I started really paying attention to. It is in mid. In his. In his second stint in Cleveland, and it was like, boxers and swimmers do this. You know, boxers, you know, and Muhammad Ali was brilliant at it. And I know for a while LeBron was super interested in Muhammad Ali. I don't know if he studied that, but, you know, boxers find ways to get little scraps of rest in the middle of rounds. Swimmers find ways to get rest when they, you know, when they turn and they. They, you know, rest their arms or whatever. And, you know, LeBron has done this brilliantly throughout his career. He. He slows down when he needs to rest. He was. He was resting on offense, and he needed extra rest because he didn't get any out of the game. That's my opinion. Anybody can disagree. I will say this two things about the Laker team. They're too shallow, which everybody knows. And JJ Knows, too, because he's voting with his actions. There's no defense, and they don't have a big. Clearly, he doesn't trust Jackson Hayes. He played him four minutes in the fourth quarter of the last two games. They got outscored by 10 points in the fourth quarter of game three. They got scored by 13 points in the fourth quarter of game four. Maybe there's a ton of reasons why that happened. I think fatigue was a factor. They get outscored in those 2 quarters in the paint 20, I think, to 4 or 20 to 6. It's hard. And you know, and we know that, like, Luca thrives on having a basket protecting lob threat.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they've just abandoned that because they have a basket protecting lob threat who happens to be a backup. But he. He can be effective. We've seen Jackson Hayes be effective, but JJ is so apparently turned off that they've taken their basket defending lob threat. That Helps Luca in myriad ways.

[Marc Stein]

I think he's a lob threat, a rim protector I think is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he's a better rim protector than Dorian Finney Smith.

[Marc Stein]

He's not. They're not a better defensive team.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree with you but I'm saying the, the points in the pain are like 20 to 4.

[Marc Stein]

Well and, and you do really run into some problems there because you know when Ant wants to attack and, and get downhill, he's pretty damn good at it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Which is why Ant has gotten more free throws than three pointers which is not the case in the regular season.

[Marc Stein]

And again, I'm sorry the other guy. Julius Randall's having a hell of a series.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's been amazing.

[Marc Stein]

There's been a lot talked about about it. That trade, it wasn't like Cat basically paid almost immediate dividends in New York and it, the fit was been clunky with, with Randall and the Wolves for most of this year. But man, you want to play small ball. Julius Randall is going to be a load because he can create and he is, he's like a, A you know, like a tackle breaking tight end. I mean he is a big physical bully ball dribble creator and that's, that's been huge in this series.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's been punishing them in transition. He has not having the ball stick as, as much. I mean making quick decisions when he catches on the perimeter either put it right on the floor, catch and sh. Threes. He's drawing some fouls on those shots as well. He's been tremendous. Where I'm in agreement with you, Brian. The fourth quarter, it hasn't just been the last two games, the entire series that the Lakers been outscored 105, 69. They're only shooting 32% from there. Again, getting back to the Milwaukee conversation, who are we indicting? I think you could say JJ's coaching. You could also say he looks at this, the, the cupboard and he sees it's bare and so he goes with the guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, they made a decision in February to, to rescind the trade and they knew when they rescinded the trade that they were going to hamstring themselves to that position. There was no way to really address it.

[Marc Stein]

And, and Dalton connect's not a rotation player in the playoffs as a rookie.

[Brian Windhorst]

Certainly not. I mean but he started. JJ stopped playing him down the stretch of the season.

[Marc Stein]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, but, and they also, they.

[Marc Stein]

Also to get Luke, it was a two for one deal. They gave up two rotation players for one. So it Was a trade. Look, they'll do that trade a thousand times out of a thousand, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Look. And look, it doesn't mean that they can't. Obviously, they got the three seat. They accomplished, you know, they did a great job with it. There's a formula for them to win, but that formula is narrow. You know, they're. What? You know, I'm not saying that the threaded needle, but what they have to pull off to win is just narrower. Their margin for error was narrower than a lot of other teams. And by the way, you mentioned Julius Randle. For sure, he was great coming down the stretch of the season, which is why they finished 17 and 4. Jaden McDaniels has had three excellent games in this series as well.

[Marc Stein]

After getting worn out by Luca last year in that Western Conference finals, he's been big time on both ends.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Clippers go into Denver tonight licking their wounds from that tough loss in game four. And they hold Nikola Jokic to 4 of 13 shooting and 13 points. They were switching and like living with Chris Dunn and James Harden on him, and it was working. And they still get run out of the building because of two reasons. One, Jamal Murray had one of the great playoff games of his career. And you know he's got a bunch. Yeah, but this is the Jamal Murray that the Nuggets paid a max contract to last summer, which was a questionable decision, but they paid it to him because they know that in the playoffs he turns into an all Star. And he was an all star in this one. 8 of 14 on threes, 43 points. And just in general, excellent play by the role players of the Nuggets. It was what I would term a home win in the NBA, which is where your role players step up. Great. Christian Brown had a great game. Aaron Gordon, I mean, he's a high level role player, but he had a great game.

[Marc Stein]

Russell Westbrook.

[Brian Windhorst]

Russell Westbrook, 8 of 15, hit 3 out of 6 threes, 21 points. He had some suspect play in the second half, but they had built a cushion and they could withstand it. And, man, four out of 13, you hold Jokic, too. You know, if you're the Clippers, you let. You let game one get away from you. You. You absolutely have a brutal game four loss. You know. You know, you figure those two games, you could at least maybe go one and one, and instead you go oh, and two. Then you hold yoke, your defensive game plan works, and you hold Jokish to 413 to lose those three games in those fashions. It's tough. But the bottom line, Dave is that it's three two Nuggets and the Nuggets have home court. They get to play game seven at home and they look like a championship team tonight again.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah and the Clippers are going to kick themselves. You know they missed 10 free throws when they were able to cut into it late. You know there is a missed free throw by Zubac. There's a uncharacteristic turnover by Powell where he doesn't kind of seem to have any plan but where he's going with the ball dribbles into basically a trap with Gordon and I believe it was Westbrook in the right wing and Denver again. They're going to have to go into it and try to win on the road here and show the heart of a champion some of those guys possessed that won a couple of years ago. I by no means do I feel like the Clippers are out of this thing though. They had a slow start here. Christian Brown was great. The momentum plays he made at the end of the third quarter again just pushing the margin wider so that when five time Clippers were ready to make their final push, they're dealing with I think it was like 19 or something like that versus 12 too much to overcome. But I, I love the defensive effort we saw from James Harden. Kawhi continues to show shades of the guys finals mvp. I, I like the Clippers still in the spot that they're in.

[Brian Windhorst]

James Harden had an offensive dud tonight, three of nine. Now it's not in the top 15 of his worst playoff games but sorry to say but let me just McMahon, let me just tell you two plus minus numbers from this game. Michael Porter Jr. Plus 34. Okay. In 37 minutes and the Clippers lose this game by 16. And Kawhi played 37 minutes and his 37 minutes they're minus seven.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

In the, you know, 11 minutes he's off the court. Court, you know they're minus 11. So.

[Marc Stein]

Well and, and Porter didn't do anything necessarily special but him toughing out 37 minutes with a bad shoulder, I mean he, it's not a shooting shoulder but when you shoot the ball, you know, it's hard not to involve that other one shot it well, three of five from three and and you know, clearly was at least a useful defensive player. You can't outscore the team by 34 and 37 minutes unless you're doing something right on that end. But I tell you man, you know and joke had a bad shooting night. Did still Have a triple double, had the 12 assists. Obviously just a masterful facilitator for him to go 4 of 13. And the Nuggets put up 131 points. That, that's pretty eye opening. And look, you said it like, dude, if, if Jamal Murray plays at the level that he did during that championship run, the Nuggets are real deal threats. And we haven't seen a ton of that from Murray this year. You didn't see it much at all last year during the playoffs. But the guy's got a reputation as a player playoff killer for a reason. This is a 640 point playoff performance. And just like he was in complete control. And you know you're, you know you're gonna throw extra bodies at a joker if you have to throw an extra body at Murray. It's going to be tough. By no means do I think the series is over. It is interesting to think about potential matchups for, for Nuggets, Thunder, but we're, you know, the Clippers are going to have a chance and as much as Mile High and you know, they had the 5280 jerseys on today and all that kind of stuff, they're not.

[Brian Windhorst]

I hate when they put, you know, one of the gimmick courts down during a vital playoff game. Sorry if that makes me.

[Marc Stein]

Those are also. Those are terrible uniforms. But it's not like they're unbeatable in a, In a home game seven. They lost last year in a home game seven.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Well, some people may wonder who would the Thunder prefer to play? The Thunder would prefer to play the team that has to win a game seven.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, I was going to say.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then immediately fly local.

[Marc Stein]

Exactly. More than anything, the Thunder just want this series to go seven games. They want game six and seven to be bloodbaths. They want the, you know, they want whoever to. Whoever emerges from this series to arrive in Bricktown all bloodied and bruised.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is, it is a compliment that we don't have to talk about the Celtics because they handle their business, which they did by closing out the magic. This is what happened last year. The Celtics, nobody paid attention to them because they went flying through the East. I just want to point something out about Jason Tatum. Games three, four and five hurt his wrist, had the bone bruise, go to Orlando. 36 points, nine rebounds, four assists. He did have seven turnovers in that one, but that was his Game 3. Game 4, 37 points, 14 rebounds, three assists, three steals. And then the closeout game, 35 points, eight rebounds, 10 assists, 10 of 16 shooting. By the way, the, the, the Celtics bench dominated in this game as well. So Drew Holiday is, is, you know, missed last few games with a hamstring so that's a thing. But now they'll get to, to rest a little bit. And the Pistons winning bought them some extra days. The, the Cavs Pacer series will start on Sunday. I suspect. You know, I guess it could start Saturday, but I suspect we're looking at Monday for the start of Celtics whomever wins Detroit, New York. So they're going to have maybe, I would guess six days off. Maybe it'll be shorter. But that was big and Tatum got it done.

[Marc Stein]

By the way, Tatum tonight passed Patrick Ewing, Robert Parish and Charles Barkley on the all time career playoff scoring list. He's now 35th in NBA history and he's just starting his prime.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Ode to him. All right, thank you so much to Dave McMenamin. Thank you to McMahon, thank you to Jackson for staying up till the wee hours to put this together. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective we will be talking to later this week.

[Marc Stein]

Adios amigos.