Bulls Finally Moving In Right Direction + Playoff Seeding Battles You Need To Watch

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: Bulls Finally Moving In Right Direction + Playoff Seeding Battles You Need To Watch
Date: April 8, 2026
Host: Brian Windhorst with Tim Bontemps (Bontemps) and Tim MacMahon (Jackson)

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on two main themes:

1. The Chicago Bulls' front office shakeup and the implications for the team's future.
2. The playoff seeding battles in both the Eastern and Western Conferences, discussing key games, strategies, and injury impacts as the NBA regular season nears its end.

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1. Chicago Bulls' Front Office Overhaul

[00:47–16:24]

Key Discussion Points:

• Bulls Fire Front Office:
  Michael Reinsdorf (Bulls president, son of Jerry Reinsdorf) fires Arturis Karnisovas and Mark Eversley after six years. The move is widely seen as overdue.

“If you've listened to this podcast at all, you've known that we viewed the Bulls as sort of a lost cause for a couple of years now because they've been dead stuck in the middle.”
— Brian (02:00)

• The "Original Sin":
  All hosts repeatedly name the Nikola Vucevic trade as the symbolic point of no return for the failed Bulls era; high draft picks and young talent were dealt for veteran mediocrity.

“The Vuch trade was a win now trade for a team that didn’t have a chance to really win.”
— Jackson (06:08)

• Missed Rebuilding Windows:
  The Bulls hesitated too long to rebuild or move valuable players like Coby White and Ayo Dosunmu when their value was highest.

"They waited so long to trade them on the deals they were on that they hardly got anything back... overwhelming lack of any sort of coherent plan."
— Wendy (Tim Bontemps) (06:39)

• Appeal of the Chicago Job:
  Despite missteps, the Bulls’ job is now attractive: clean cap sheet, extra draft picks, interesting young pieces, and low interference from ownership.

"Chicago is a place where you can get players. Chicago is a place where players are going to want to play."
— Wendy (08:41)

• Billy Donovan's Future:
  • Ownership wants Donovan to stay, possibly in a greater role.
  • Speculation if he might take a "Brad Stevens" type of move to the front office.
  • Donovan has real options elsewhere, especially after personal tragedies and family milestones this season.

“If Billy Donovan wanted to be running the Bulls, he'd be running the Bulls already.”
— Wendy (10:41)
“He’s about the most well-liked guy in the league.”
— Wendy (11:04)

• Ownership Accountability & Communication:
  Michael Reinsdorf admits he was “too hands off” and there was inadequate oversight.

“Didn't excel in communication... I let him work. And when you don't have oversight... sometimes you can get stuck on these things.”
— Brian (07:20)

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2. Playoff Seeding Drama: East & West

[18:02–54:44]

Eastern Conference Battles

• Cavs, Knicks, Hawks, Raptors, Sixers, Charlotte:
  • The Knicks hold the third seed with tiebreaker over the Cavs.
  • The Cavs’ poor three-point defense and injury-filled roster cause concern.
  • With strategic "resting," the Cavs can choose to finish fourth and avoid the Celtics on their bracket side—presumably preferring Atlanta as a playoff matchup.

“The Cavs might just say, forget about this positioning. We got to get some level of consistency and rhythm going...”
— Brian (28:56)

• On Tanking and Matchups:

  • Teams, like the Cavs, potentially manipulating late-season lineups to control their playoff positioning, reminiscent of the infamous "Daniel Oturu Post-Up Outbreak" (22:15-22:43).

• Injury and Awards Impacts:
  Cade Cunningham’s return for Detroit is notable but he won't qualify for awards due to missed games, highlighting the sometimes harsh unintended effects of eligibility rules.

“The intent of the rule and the result with Cade Cunningham are on complete polar opposite ends of the spectrum.”
— Jackson (26:56)

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Western Conference Battles

• Denver Nuggets’ Surge:
  Now in the third seed, coming off huge comeback wins despite allowing a high volume of threes—the hosts praise the Jokic-Murray-Gordon trio (32:08–36:20).

“It's unbelievable to see Aaron Gordon nailing these huge threes and shooting the way he is now... putting up almost 42% from three.”
— Jackson (34:52)

• Blazers and Suns Out West:
  Portland’s impressive (if futile) shooting runs (25 threes in one loss; Kamara’s 8-for-8 night) show the chaotic final stretch, while the Suns have an outside shot at advancing if they finish out strong.

• Lakers’ Injury Crisis:
  Both Austin Reaves and Luka Doncic go down together—LeBron is left to carry a massive load.

“That Lakers turn of events is a disaster—to have two players go down like that in the same moment...”
— Brian (42:41)

• Houston Rockets & Seeding Jockey:
  Houston is surging, benefiting from Lakers’ woes and aiming to solidify their hold on home court advantage.

Strategic Rest & Coaching Concerns:

• Discussing if teams should ‘bubble wrap’ their stars (LeBron specifically) and the sustainability of short-term heroics by aging superstars.
• “They might need to load-manage him during the series. I’m not even kidding.” — Jackson (52:36)

Lakers’ Realistic Outlook:

• No one expects a deep Lakers run without full health; any first-round upset would be a “free roll.”
• “It's a total free roll. No one's going to pick the Lakers to win that series. They're going to be without their two perimeter scorers, right? And their MVP candidate.”
  — Wendy (52:01)

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Bulls:

  • “They finally got off of that road. Better late than never.” — Jackson (06:08)
  • “All roads lead to 39.” — Repeated theme, mocking Bulls’ perennial mediocrity.

• On League Trends:

  • “The Cavs might just say, forget about this positioning. We got to get some level of consistency and rhythm going.” — Brian (28:56)
  • “The intent of the rule and the result with Cade Cunningham are on complete polar opposite ends of the spectrum.” — Jackson (26:56)
  • “Gordon is as good of a glue guy type of role player as there is in the league right now.” — Jackson (36:04)
  • “If you shoot 48% on 52 threes in a game, I know that's a game you're going to win the vast majority of the time... So Denver really pulled a rabbit out of a hat.” — Wendy (36:54)

• On LeBron’s Longevity:

  • “It is astounding how awesome of an athlete LeBron still is... KD said, I think he can play till 45, easy. I don’t doubt it.” — Jackson (52:36)

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4. Important Timestamps

| Topic | Speaker | Timestamp | |-------------------|-----------|-----------| | Bulls Front Office Fired & Vucevic "Original Sin" | Brian, Wendy, Jackson | 00:47–07:59 | | Appeal of Bulls job & Billy Donovan's Future | Wendy, Brian | 08:05–15:03 | | Cavs/Knicks/Hawks Seeding Battle | Brian, Wendy, Jackson | 18:02–30:13 | | Nuggets/Blazers Comeback & Aaron Gordon's Role | Brian, Wendy, Jackson | 32:08–38:39 | | Lakers Injury Crisis & Houston’s Emergence | Brian, Wendy, Jackson | 42:31–54:44 | | On Cade Cunningham Awards Rule | Wendy, Jackson | 26:49–27:32 | | Nuggets’ Three-Man Chemistry | Wendy, Jackson | 34:30–36:20 | | LeBron’s Playoff Plan & Longevity | Brian, Wendy, Jackson | 52:01–53:26 |

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5. Tone & Dynamic

• Informal, candid, and occasionally irreverent—panelists riff on inside jokes, recent anecdotes (e.g., waffle-eating cameo by Jackson’s son, “All roads lead to 39” Bulls meme), and air their playoff opinions with good-natured debate.
• Optimism for fanbases with new front office opportunities; realism bordering on skepticism for teams facing injury- or roster-related adversity.
• Frequent callbacks to past playoff manipulations and “strategic tanking” supplement serious analysis.

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6. Takeaways

• The Bulls have a rare chance for a clean reset if they hire a strong leader—ownership appears willing to let that person work.
• Playoff positioning in both conferences is highly strategic; teams might rest or play guys key to their desired first-round outcomes.
• LeBron remains otherworldly, but even he has limits—and the Lakers are in major trouble without their stars.
• The Nuggets are peaking at the right time, driven by elite synergy among their trio, while younger teams like the Rockets and fringe teams like the Blazers and Suns jostle for places.
• End-of-season injuries and NBA policy quirks (e.g., award eligibility) loom large for several stars.

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Transcript

[Wendy]

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[Brian]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing on Tuesday afternoon. Joining us from New York City before he runs down to Is it the Garden or Barclays? I don't even know. The Garden had a heck of a game on Monday night, but is Tim Bontemps.

[Wendy]

I am not in New York City. I am in Boston. Oh, you're in Boston Tee Garden, where I'm going to watch Charlotte and Boston play. Let's start over in a little while. No, we're not going to start over. That's even better. Hello everybody. Hello everybody from Boston, where Charlotte and Boston will be playing in a couple hours of what's going to be a very interesting Eastern Conference showdown that has some implications for cavscore from down the

[Brian]

hall or across the street, I guess, here in Los Angeles and just off the set of NBA Today, headed later on over to crypto.com arena to see the Thunder play the Lakers in a game that probably is not going to be that interesting. Is Ben McMahon.

[Jackson]

Howdy Partners. It will be the South Bay Lakers tonight, just to be clear about that. But hey, Bon Tims went back to Boston, his old stomping grounds, and they said, let us put you right in the VIP room, baby, here's some plywood.

[Wendy]

I wanted to be in a quiet corner where nobody was going to be coming behind us. So I'm outside the media room.

[Brian]

All right. Okay. So we had a first significant personnel adjustment in the NBA on Monday when the Bulls, after six years, made a change to their front office, firing Arturis Karnasovich and Mark Eversley. President and general manager Michael Reinsdorf, who is the son of primary owner Jerry Reinsdorf and pretty much the guy who's been running the team. He made the hire of our tourists. He has given an interview this afternoon to talk about this. If you've listened to this podcast at all, you've known that we viewed the Bulls as sort of a lost cause for a couple of years now because they've Been dead stuck in the middle and been stuck in the middle. I don't really want to rehash backwards, but I will say that the day I'm pretty sure we did a podcast the day that they traded the Nika and they traded for Nikola Vucevich, two first round picks was Wendell Carter, two first one of which was a lottery pick which became Franz Wagner and both were lottery picks. I just want to say I recall, if I recall correctly, Jackson, the two of you hated it with a capital H. And pretty much ever since that trade, the Bulls have been circling the drain and Arturis and Mark have been on pretty much an organizational losing streak in their decisions. I wouldn't say every decision was bad, but most of them did not work out. And you can kind of, you can go back further, but that trade, which sort of made that, you know, they sort of made a win now trade and then didn't win. Now that's kind of why I think we're here to the day that seemed like to me to be the tipping point. Bontemps. Unless you have a, unless you disagree with that.

[Wendy]

No, I mean, look, I think Jamal, Jamal Collier, our colleague in a story that Bobby, Jeremy Wu and myself all contributed to about the decision to move on from those guys. I don't remember if it was Jamal or a source called it the original sin in their situation. It is like, you know, Arturis, I, I think, I think he had in there that Arturis in the, in the future, looking back at it, said that's the kind of move we should have made at the end rather than the beginning of trying to build a contending team. I would argue shouldn't build it, put it, do it at either end of trying to put together a contending team. Because Nick Vucevich has been on the same kind of teams forever for a reason. Now, ironically, he is here in Boston playing for the Celtics in a supplementary role, which is where he can be useful. But look, the irony of the situation in Chicago is that this has a chance to be a pretty good job. Now you're, you've got a clean cap sheet going forward. They have the Blazers pick which if Portland makes the playoffs conveys so they could have the 15th or 16th pick in a loaded draft. They have the chance to have a number one pick or certain worst, the ninth or tenth pick in a very good draft. So you got two first round picks. Modest Pizzealous is interesting. There's no bad contracts. Like it's actually set up pretty well to have Somebody come in and do the job. And frankly, that's why it was imperative the Bulls made this decision now, because you have the opportunity to go out and get somebody good to come in with a blank slate and put together a competitive team. And if they had gone into this summer and made a bunch of moves and done a bunch of stuff with the roster, it might not be that case a year from now. So I actually think the timing of this could be pretty good for Chicago if they go out and hire somebody good to put them in the job and they go out and do the things that Arturis really did not do over the past six years, which is coherently have a plan to build out a really good team in Chicago. And look, the other thing I'll say is ownership there has proven you're going to get a long, extended tenure to try to build this team. That is, they've only had three. They've only had three real executive tenures in 40 years. So, like, you're going to have an opportunity to build this thing if you do it right. So I do think there's a lot of positives come out of it. Jamal reported earlier Tuesday that they're going to use a search firm. Michael confirmed that we'll see what happens to Billy Donovan. I'm sure we'll talk about that. But, yeah, I mean, this was a decision that I think people around the league were just wondering when it was going to happen. Would it be this year? Would it be in a year, would it be after that? And the fact that happens now gives this team a chance to, you know, turn the page at what could be an opportune time to do so.

[Jackson]

Yeah, the Bulls crime was that they refused to rebuild. And, you know, the Vuch trade was a win now trade for a team that didn't have a chance to really win. And then they just. They doubled down on that by giving them a contract extension. This was a team. You know, Wendy, as you repeatedly said, all roads lead to 39. They finally got off of that road. Better late than never. But they finally got off that road. They pulled the plug. It was too late because in this tank race, they were, you know, too far out ahead.

[Wendy]

Just put a real pin in that real quick. Not only was it too late because they waited too long to tank this year when the draft was so good, they also waited too long to get anything of value for their players. Like, they had Kobe, White and Iotesumu on, like, two of the best things that Arturres did was sign Kobe White now draft sign those guys to the deals they were on. Right. And they waited so long to trade them on the deals they were on that they hardly got anything back for them. If they traded Kobe White two years ago or an IO two years ago, they might have got multiple firsts. Instead, they got a couple. Instead they got a couple of seconds. That all just goes back to the overwhelming lack of any sort of coherent plan, which is why we're sitting here having this conversation right now.

[Brian]

Yeah. And Michael Reinsdorf said in his press conference today that he. I don't think he used these exact words. He was too hands off. But I think he was saying, I need to maybe hold my hire a little bit more accountable because Arturis, you know, didn't excel in communication. And I was sort of removed. He basically was saying, I let him work. So, you know, and when you don't have oversight like that, you know, sometimes, you know, look, if you've won three championships, okay. But if you don't have oversight and you don't have that kind of pressure, you know, you sometimes can get stuck on these things going forward.

[Jackson]

I don't think the answer is Michael Reinsdorf being real hands on. I think the answer is hiring somebody who's more competent.

[Wendy]

It's a very similar situation, to be real quick, that is going on in Tim's hometown. Like, both those owners had people in the jobs that they let do the jobs, which, if you have somebody really good in the job, that's great. If you have somebody that advises you to trade two first for Nick Vucevich or to trade Luka Doncic, and you listen to them, that's bad. Like, obviously, it's different levels of bad, but it's bad. And that, that. But. But seriously, like, if. If you're an executive, you want to walk into a job where ownership's not going to get involved, the rhinestones are not going to do that. It's a place where you can get players. Chicago is a place where players are

[Brian]

going to want to play, kind of.

[Wendy]

I think it's a place where players are going to want to play. I mean, the team has not been good, but you can get people to come play in Chicago.

[Brian]

They've had some success in free agency. I wouldn't say it's a free agent destination.

[Wendy]

Boston wasn't a free agency destination at one point either, and they've gotten a bunch of guys to come play here. If you have a good team, guys are going to come play there.

[Brian]

Well, I do agree that it's A that you've got a better chance in in Chicago than Salt Lake. No offense to the Jazz, I'm just, they're free agents. They both have cap space this summer.

[Jackson]

So yeah, it's a big market team with a, A, you know, rabid fan base. They, as you said, they do have cap space. Now what differentiates the Dallas situation from the Chicago situation is Dallas very clearly has the dude who's going to be the foundation of their team for as long as they can keep Cooper flag there. And Chicago is looking for that type. Chicago needs that type of guy that they can build around. They've got some good players. They don't have the dude who's going to be a perennial all NBA selection.

[Brian]

What Michael Reinsdorf said today pretty much made it sound like not only does he want Billy Donovan to remain as the head coach, he went so far as to say that if he talked to a candidate who wasn't sold on Billy Donovan, they would probably find another candidate because not so much.

[Jackson]

And that flies in the face of not meddling his ownership. If you're going to hire someone competent, you have to hire someone competent and let them run the show.

[Brian]

I don't know if Billy's sticking around, but not only does he want him to stick around, it sounds like he wants him to have a bigger role. So here's what he said. Quote, I'll probably push Billy to be more involved. And if Donovan came to him to suggest a Brad Stevens type of role, and that essentially is leave the coaching staff and go run the front office, he says, quote I would sit down and listen to Billy if I was. I'm sure Billy Donovan already knew all this, but if I was listening to this podcast with Billy Donovan, I would start thinking about a lot of things right now.

[Wendy]

Look, if, if Billy Donovan wanted to be running the Bulls, he'd be running the Bulls already. And that's been the case for a while. So none of this is really, I think, any sort of surprise. The bright source really like him. They have really liked him. That has been very clear to anybody who has been around the Bulls at all. And look, Billy, I just saw Billy a few days ago. He's had a ton of personal tragedy over the past couple of months. His mother in law passed away, his father passed away, his mom has some health issues, all in a a brief span of time. Just had a grandkid in the middle of all that too. Like there's been a ton of personal stuff that's gone on. The team is obviously not in a good place right now. He is going to potentially have options to go other places if he wants to this summer. I think he has the ability to pursue that if he wants to. So I think the first question I think is, does Billy want to be in Chicago or not? And does he want to. What does he want to do? And then I think the question will be, will he be involved going forward with the Bulls and in what capacity? But I would also say that Billy Donovan is about the most well liked guy in the league. I think if you have an executive come in and it's like, hey, Billy's going to be the coach, I don't see that being some massive impediment to people taking the job in Chicago. I get what you're saying, McMahon, about not being involved from an ownership standpoint, but if the one stipulation of the job is if Billy wants to be the coach, he's going to be the coach. I do not foresee that being a. A thing that it's somebody coming in to do the job of God. You know what? I can't work with Billy Donovan. Like, I think that part. He's not Larry Brown. Right. He's not. Or some other person who's had all sorts of friction with people in the past. Like, that's just not how he operates. But it does set up an interesting conversation, I think, over the next week or two, which is, what is Billy Donovan going to do? And he was always going to get to the end of the season and see what his options were going to be. We thought one of them might be North Carolina. Obviously our colleague Michael Malone has that job. So now that's off the board. But it will be interesting to see what Billy does.

[Brian]

No more dinners with you and me, McMahon. He's done with us.

[Wendy]

That's a big upgrade for him.

[Jackson]

I'll have to get somebody else to pay for the pizza that I swiped from you.

[Brian]

He was a North Carolina fan throughout the whole year. He talked a lot about North Carolina. I did not see that coming at all.

[Wendy]

Well, his daughter is playing volleyball There be career.

[Jackson]

He also. But you know, and I'm happy for him. I didn't see it coming, but it makes a lot of sense. He talked about how awesome it was to be able to be a father this year. And obviously he'll get to watch at least a lot of her home games. And good for him, you know, wish him luck going to the college ranks.

[Brian]

Yeah. His daughter was a freshman at North Carolina or is a freshman at North Carolina. She Played her first volleyball season last fall and he went to a lot of the games, was on campus a lot. She went, I think, from not being a starter to being a starter. And she was started in the ncaa. They pulled some upset in the first round of the NCAA tournament and she was, she played really well in that match. So, yeah, so he was spending a lot of time there. So that was a surprise. But it also meant that Billy Donovan didn't get the North Carolina job. And therefore. And unless he's up for another college job that we don't know about, he has some time. You know, the college, the transfer portal and all that stuff. If you wanted to be a head coach, you pretty much got to get started immediately. Now that, that is not something that is on Billy Donovan's plate again, that I'm aware of. I think this, this allows for more time.

[Wendy]

Yeah, but the expectation was always that he wasn't going to college anyway and this was maybe one job he would look at. But you know, now, now I think it's either MBA or bust.

[Jackson]

And then frankly, I think what happened with Malone when we had him having to catch a pitch, you know, crouch down in the catcher stance and catch a pitch from Perk, who, like Perk ain't throwing too many baseballs in his life, so really tough on the knees. I think at that point he was like, I got to get back to coaching.

[Brian]

Yeah, this is. He did, I think unless he was, you know, running an elaborate ruse. I think he did enjoy his time this year. But we all, I think most of us knew it was going to be a one year thing. Likely. I will say that if Billy Donovan got out of his contract with the

[Wendy]

Bulls, he would have sucked. He would be great on tv.

[Brian]

Well, he'd be great on tv, but I would tell you that he would have. There will be teams that would want to hire him in the NBA.

[Wendy]

Oh, yes, no question for sure. He's going to have options. And that's part of why it's going to be interesting to see what happens. It's not like he. Again, it's his decision whether he wants to be in Chicago or not. And part of that decision will be the possibility of going elsewhere if he chooses to. Like he's going to have options.

[Jackson]

I like this quote, Reinsdorf on Tank. And this is from Jamal Collier. That's just not who we are as an organization. Has this man watched the last month and a half?

[Brian]

Well, he also claimed that, you know, there was never any contract extension given to Arturis and Eversley. And of course they've got contract extensions.

[Jackson]

That's, that's, he's not under oath. It's fine.

[Brian]

It's just disingenuous, but whatever. He's always been nice to me. I don't want to insult him. I will just say actions over words.

[Wendy]

They were in the job for six years. They didn't get seven year contracts.

[Brian]

I think they had one playoff victory in six years.

[Wendy]

That's right.

[Brian]

I will say that. Unfortunately, I think we're going to this is not the first time we're going to be talking about a firing. I think there's going to be quite a few when we get to our podcast next Tuesday. We record next Tuesday. I'm afraid a majority of that podcast is going to be talking about gentlemen who lost their jobs. So while I don't want to get in that game of eyeing ones, we certainly know that there's going to be some changes.

[Jackson]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Wendy]

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[Brian]

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[Brian]

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[Wendy]

Yeah, they'd have to lose out and a lot of things would have to happen.

[Brian]

Right. But you know, and then things might even happen tonight that would take that off the board. But it's not locked in that they're they're free of 10th yet, but they are in fifth. Now here's why this is interesting. In a game that potentially has a chance to be one of the most fascinating of this week, the Knicks beat the Hawks on Monday night in a barn burner which included a half court shot that C.J. mcCollum knocked in one tech 1/10 of a second too late otherwise.

[Wendy]

Might not even have been might not have been 1/10 of a second late. Might have been less.

[Jackson]

It was close on just his tippy tippy tippy fingertips.

[Brian]

The inverse of Aaron Gordon. It's like the inverse of the Aaron Gordon play.

[Wendy]

Yes. From the playoffs last year gets the Clippers. Yes.

[Brian]

So that game kept the Knicks a game in front of the Cavs for

[Wendy]

the three seed with the tiebreaker.

[Brian]

It's effectively a two game lead because of the Knicks have the tiebreaker. The Cavs won in Memphis on Monday in a game where they allowed 29 made three pointers, the Grizzlies made 29 three pointers and lost, which is a different topic for a different.

[Jackson]

Who's making all those three pointers anyways? Go on. You haven't heard of them. That's a hint.

[Brian]

There were guys on 10 days making threes. Okay, so bond temps. This is the situation the Cavs are in. They do not play well against the Boston Celtics this year. They were 1 and 3. They might have been. I don't even know if they beat them. But they. It was lopsided. The Celtics are the best team in the east right now. No offense to the Pistons. The Pistons are right there. But the Celtics have been playing the best basketball in the East. They are going to get the 2 seed. If the Cavs finish 4th, they can avoid the Celtics on their side of the bracket. And if the Cavs lose to the Atlanta Hawks, who they play the next two games, they can increase the chances of the Hawks being their opponent and make sure that the raptors, who they were.03 against, not that I'm saying they're afraid of the Raptors, but they were.03 against the Raptors. They played them way back before the new year. But the Raptors did beat the Cavs up this year and the 76ers who are maybe the most dangerous team in the Eastern Conference, who are fully healthy right now and Embiid is hitting James Hardness step backs. They have the potential to keep Philly and Toronto back there and invite.

[Wendy]

And Charlotte.

[Brian]

And Charlotte. Correct.

[Wendy]

Buzz City Killers only 27 and 8 in their last 35 games with a plus 12 net rating coming into tonight's game here in Boston. So, so the one thing you didn't add there, Brian, and we've mentioned this a couple times on the pod, not only do they play Wednesday night in Cleveland, they play Friday night in Atlanta. The two teams. So the Cavs really, if they want to, could basically guarantee they're in the four playing Atlanta in the five. If they were to say rest some people in those two games and allow Atlanta to get a couple of victories.

[Jackson]

Do you guys, do you guys remember the Daniel Oturo post up outbreak that

[Wendy]

the Clippers had in Oklahoma City? I believe it was in Oklahoma City.

[Jackson]

It was and I forgot who they played the game before but it was like two games or Daniel Oturu who now is putting up very good numbers in China had like 50 something post ups and they were working hard to dictate. I think it was more about not

[Wendy]

necessarily the first round matchup but they

[Jackson]

did dictate that they played the Mavericks in the first round. Who they'd beaten the year before. I think it was really more about getting on the opposite side of the bracket of the Lakers. And this is a case where honestly it makes sense to be on the opposite side of the bracket of the Celtics, who are considered the pretty clear favorite in the Eastern Conference, despite the fact that the Pistons are the top

[Wendy]

seed in that game. By the way, just for people's memory, Daniel Tour was 5 for 21 from the field in 37 minutes in a game that the Thunder won by five points over the course.

[Jackson]

Oh, and that was not the Thunder. That was the OKC tanker. It was that error. That was the point Poku game.

[Brian]

That's right.

[Jackson]

Poku went bonkers running point in that game.

[Wendy]

That's right. That's right.

[Brian]

Okay, so now the Cavs have had a number of players sit out the last couple of games with injury, including Donovan Mitchell. Evan Mobley missed one of the games. Jared Allen missed one of the games.

[Wendy]

They rotated guys in out of the lineup against tankers.

[Brian]

Right. But they've had quote unquote, guys who have injuries.

[Wendy]

Right.

[Brian]

So it's a national television game. The player participation policy is in effect.

[Jackson]

Oh.

[Brian]

So the question here is what will the Cavs do? Now, the Cavs could play this game straight up and lose it anyway. But it is of all the games that are played, however many 1200 whatever in the NBA, this one is a little bit more interesting. The menu of situations. Now, the Cavs put out the injury report just before we did this pod and there is nobody on their injury report listed as out, including Dean Wade and Jalen Tyson, two guys who are not necessarily going to define a playoff series. However, those guys have missed the last week and it they're listed as questionable, as is Donovan Mitchell.

[Wendy]

As is Donovan Mitchell. Yes. Who's been dealing with his own ankle sprain.

[Brian]

The Cavs are hinting that they're going to play to win this game against the Hawks. Doesn't mean that they will play all those guys full minutes, but they are hinting they're going to play to win. And that is interesting. Bontemps.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I mean it's interesting on a couple of levels. I mean the Knicks, for a reminder, have the have these three games to end their season. They've got Boston at home, all at the Garden. You have Boston on Thursday, Toronto on Friday and Charlotte on Sunday. Obviously all teams that for different reasons will have things to play for and are, I mean, I guess Boston in theory, might they basically want to have anything to play for if they beat Charlotte Tuesday night. But the Celtics will play that game, I would suspect, at the guard. So the Knicks could lose all those games. And sitting after these two games for the Cavs against the Hawks is a game against the Wizards, who could be in a position where if they lose that game and continue to lose games as they have been, could guarantee themselves having no worse than the fifth pick in the draft. And I suspect after all the losing the Lizards have done, they will be making sure that they are no lower than the fifth pick in the draft.

[Jackson]

So going out on a limb.

[Wendy]

Well, that's what makes these two games against Atlanta particularly interesting because if the Cavs lose those two games, they guarantee themselves the four. And it does pretty much guarantee Atlanta. It does guarantee, in fact, Atlanta would be the five because all the teams behind them can get no higher than 47 wins. I guess, I guess there's a world where Toronto wins out, but I, I don't think Toronto's winning the final four games. So it is going to be interesting to see how this game goes on Wednesday night because if the Cavs do lose it, like if they play it, play it out and lose, my guess is they probably sit everybody on Friday anyway in Atlanta and the Hawks get another win. The Cavs are locked into the four seed and they're playing Atlanta in the first round. One other thing to note, totally unrelated from an injury standpoint. Cade Cunningham was listed as doubtful for the game on Monday night. He's now questionable for the game on Wednesday. Certainly seems like Cade Cunningham is on the verge of return from this collapsed lung, which A, is great from just seeing him be getting ready to play and B, it certainly would be nice, you know, assuming, knock on wood, everything goes well the next couple days to get Cade Cunningham back out on the court and get his legs under him a little bit before the playoffs. That obviously is a pretty big development for the Eastern Conference standings.

[Jackson]

Now he cannot salvage his award eligibility though, can he?

[Wendy]

He cannot. No, he can't. He will not get enough games for that.

[Jackson]

And to me, he's the guy who's really just getting the worst end of the deal on that and completely. I mean the guy got hurt diving on the floor for a loose ball. The complete opposite against the Wizards Load management. Yeah, like there is no nothing further from load mansion diving on the four for a loose ball against the Wizards. I, you know, the good, the fortunately this is not going to affect his contract. He already got his supermax. But that the, the intent of the rule and the result with Cade Cunningham are on complete polar opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Cleveland is 18th in the league in defense since the All Star break, which is, you know, roughly around the James Harden trade. They, he played a couple of games before the All Star break. Their three point defense has been rough for most of the season and certainly was rough against Memphis, although they had, you know, both teams had guys in

[Wendy]

and out well and you've been banging the drum, Brian, that they've been playing all these tankers and not exactly looking great for a while. They keep picking up wins, but they're not exactly inspiring victories.

[Brian]

No, the Cavs like, they're, they're something like 26 and five in their last 31 games and they've won like seven out of eight road games. But there's a few good wins in there. But you generally look at that and you're like, I'm not blown away. And so on one hand you could just flat out say the Cavs can forget about who they're, they're lined up with if they don't start getting some stops and start, you know, their offense has been very good. You know, they've shown, you know, dangerous offense, but they don't start getting some stops. It doesn't matter who they're playing. Like that's a reasonable thing to say.

[Jackson]

And if it is Atlanta in the first round, like Atlanta can light you up if you're not playing well defensively. Jalen Johnson's had an all NBA season. Nikhil Alexander Walker has been unbelievable, emerging as a, you know, a 20 plus point per game score. They've been really good since CJ McCollum's been there. And in the starting lineup they can score.

[Brian]

I agree they're a little bit susceptible on the interior, but you know, they're going to press you on the perimeter. So, you know, the Cavs might just say, forget about this positioning. We got to, we got to get something. You know, when they're, they've guys have been banged up, we got to get some level of, of consistency and some rhythm going because Kenny Atkinson, I believe, is Approaching Starting his 40th different lineup of the season, which is not something that you would normally see from a team that's gone over 50 wins, which, which they did against Memphis. So I would just say, and I, I, I was, I was talking to someone the other day who has a bet on the Cavs over, under. I think it was 52 and a half.

[Wendy]

I think it was higher than, I mean that would have had to drop. I think it was closer to 60 earlier in the. It wasn't 60, but it was, I

[Brian]

want to say 53.

[Wendy]

Oh, maybe it was 53.

[Jackson]

Anyway, you don't know when the bet was made.

[Brian]

True.

[Wendy]

That's fair.

[Brian]

That's true. I think the individual told me that it was 53 and a half, so

[Wendy]

that was the case. They're not winning it anyway now, so

[Brian]

I guess that's true. Well, anyway, maybe are we discussing over under bets?

[Jackson]

Because I think the spurs have won so many games this year that I should automatically win last year's debt too. And you owe me two dinners now.

[Brian]

It's not the way that it works.

[Wendy]

That is not how it works. Believe it or not though, the world is shifting to ban things if you

[Brian]

have the cats over under bet. There's a possibility, I think that you care about how they, how they approach these two games, but it certainly is interesting and it will give you a mindset into where the Cavs are, how they handle this. Like I said, the, the instantaneous view here is that they may be trying to, to go normal and go full out here, but I don't know, you could create a case that they shouldn't go that way. So go that way. So we'll see. So we saw a very big game already this week where the Knicks beat the Hawks. Another key game that happened in the west this week, the Nuggets. Coming from way back. The the Blazers were as hot as you could possibly be for three point range. I think they made 16 threes in the first half of their game against the Nuggets. The Nuggets come back and win the game in overtime for their ninth consecutive win. And more importantly than all that bontemps, they take over the number three seed in the Western Conference. And frankly, I don't know if they're going to be giving it back, especially with the status of the Lakers going forward. We're doing this before the Lakers play the Thund on Tuesday. But the Nuggets, I wouldn't say their last two games have been, you know, dominant by any stretch. The way they beat the spurs and then came back on the Blazers. But they are winning. They are showing incredible offense. They've been, they've basically been the league's best offense over the last month. Jokic is putting up enormous numbers. They are hitting three pointers at a stunning rate and now they've gotten themselves into a position where they're on the opposite side of the bracket than the, than the Thunder and they've had a little bit of success against the spurs this year. So I know health is everything. Aaron Gordon is currently healthy. That's how they're going to affect it. But the Nuggets have worked themselves into a great position with, especially with those last two big wins.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I mean that was a huge game on Monday night for a variety of reasons. You have Blazers who are trying to get into the top eight in the Western Conference, get into that seven, eight game and get the ability to have to win one of two rather than win two to get into the playoffs at all. And then you had Denver who like you said is in this position where they've got the tie break on the Rockets, I believe. So all they got to do is match them in wins and you know, we certainly know where the Lakers stand. So with, if they had won that, if they had lost that game would open the door to falling out of the three, which they didn't want. And again, you had Portland in a position where they could really control their own destiny. And you mentioned that the, the Nuggets came back, they're down 16 with eight minutes to go. It was not like this was a, you know, well, five point game with a couple minutes to go. They were dead and buried in a lot of ways and come flying all the way back. And what was it at the end of the game? It was like you said Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon and Nicole Vucevich or Nikola Jokic, not Nicole Vucevich talked about him earlier and quite slightly different player. And if you have faith in Denver in the playoffs as a team that can get all the way through to the end, it's because of those three guys and the synergy they have and the chemistry they have. And it, it's unbelievable to see Aaron Gordon nailing these huge threes and shooting the way he is now. I mean this is a guy who, you know, came in the league as a rugged, you know, super athletic, do a lot of things player, but not a guy who you thought of as a lights out three point shooter. Now every time he shoots it, I think it's going in and especially from the corners. And adding that to his game has fundamentally changed his game in this latter part of his career. And it, there's just, those three guys just have unbelievable chemistry together and it, it's going to give them a chance in any series. And we talked a lot about that Spurs Nuggets game Saturday night. Those two teams meet in the second round. It's going to be an incredible series to watch. And like you said, that win with Memphis coming up on Wednesday, a game Denver certainly should win. And then playing an Oklahoma City team on Friday, that probably is not going to have much incentive to play the game. You're all. But certainly after that win, seeing looking at Denver getting into the three and setting up certainly what could be an absolutely titanic war in the second round, assuming Victor's healthy coming off this rib thing and the spurs get there.

[Jackson]

Yeah. And you know, when you talk about the Nuggets, people talk so much about one of the best two man games in the history of the league with Joker and Murray. But it is a three man. You know, that's a trio that they have a championship trio. And Aaron Gordon's health makes all the difference in the world. Unfortunately, the last couple of seasons he's

[Wendy]

had a lot of issues.

[Jackson]

You know, soft tissue injuries, calf strains, hamstring strains. It's knocked him out a lot. But when he is healthy, they have a chance to beat anybody that you put in front of them. You know, they pushed the Thunder to seven games last year and we've talked about him being the duct tape for them defensively. If they don't have him on defense, they stink on that end of the floor when they do have him, even though the spurs let him up. Who was guarding Victor Wimanyama down the stretch and making him take and miss tough shots? It's Aaron Gordon. You know, he cleans up so much for them. He takes tough assignments for them there. I think though, people might underrate his impact for them offensively and bon temps. You mentioned the three point shooting over the last two seasons. As interrupted as they've been, he's shooting almost 42% from three and he's got such great chemistry with Joker in particular. Whether it's diving to the rim, you know, the cutting, the timing on that. How many times has Joker fed him for dunks and layups over the years? Or you know, that huge three that he hit. He's in the dunker spot and he's and he's figuring out like, okay, am I going to cut to the rim? No, he sees it.

[Wendy]

He feels.

[Jackson]

He backpedals to the corner swish. Gordon is as good of a glue guy type of role player as there is in the league right now. And if he's healthy, they're 100% an elite team and a championship contender.

[Brian]

Point out The Blazers made 25 three pointers in this game. So you that means on Monday that The Blazers made 25 threes. That wasn't overtime but nonetheless and lost. And The Grizzlies made 29 threes and lost 29 threes. Tied the most ever in a game.

[Jackson]

By the way, you know the last team to beat the Nuggets?

[Brian]

I do not.

[Jackson]

Do you know the last team to

[Wendy]

lose it was the Memphis Grizzlies, I believe.

[Jackson]

Yeah, it was that bizarre. Rescheduled.

[Wendy]

Yep.

[Brian]

Oh, that's crazy.

[Jackson]

Back to back in Memphis after earlier in the season the Grizzlies had to spend or I'm sorry, the Nuggets had to spend a few nights in LeBron James favorite hotel.

[Wendy]

And by the way they not only did they make 25 threes, they went 25 for 52 from three. They shot 48%. If you shoot 48% on 52 threes in a game, I know that's a game you're going to win the vast majority of the time whether no matter who you're playing in any setting. So Denver really pulled a rabbit out of a hat and in doing so set themselves up rather nicely. And you know the Blazers are playing the Clippers coming up here this week.

[Jackson]

That's pretty important game and that that

[Wendy]

game I believe on Friday I'm double checking. Yeah, on Friday at home in Portland and that game will determine the tiebreaker. So you know we'll see if Victor's able to play on Wednesday he had this rib thing he left the win over the Spur the Sixers with on Monday. He's got to play in one more game for at least 20 minutes to be award eligible. The injury report's not out as of 5:30 Eastern when we're doing this pod on Tuesday. But you know Portland still got a chance to get into that top eight but certainly would have been a heck of a lot closer if they'd managed to seal that one in Denver Monday night.

[Jackson]

Denver schedule by the way, they have the Grizzlies. I'm going to assume they're going to get their payback there Friday night they have the Thunder.

[Brian]

The Grizzlies are going to make sure of it.

[Jackson]

Yeah, that's right. Payback. You owe us one. You owe us a butt whooping. Anyway, anyways, Friday night they have OKC in Denver. We will see but OKC might have the top seed clinched and we talked about if you're going to manipulate matchups, certainly sending the OKC blue up there to help Nuggets get on the opposite side of the bracket would make sense. It will be fascinating to see if there's a chance for Denver to get

[Wendy]

knocked back on the last day of

[Jackson]

the regular season when the Nuggets end the season in San Antonio should point

[Brian]

out that Tomani Kamara, the big man from the Blazers, made eight threes in that game on Monday. In his last four games he's made 24 of them. He's, he's, he's got over 200 made this year. He's turned himself into a good three point shooter and now this year a volume three point shooter.

[Jackson]

And boy is that painful for Phoenix Suns fans to see. Remember he was a second round pick.

[Brian]

Well, you got to bring that up. Why you got to bring up old stuff like that years ago.

[Jackson]

I'm sorry. I promise you, any Suns fan listening that's the first thing they thought of is why do we have to attach him to 8 and get that damn deal done.

[Brian]

Well, the Thunder do play the Clippers on Wednesday night here in la and Shea typically plays on back to backs. We'll see now that they've, they're in great shape to get the one assuming no stubbed toes. The Thunder are in really good shape, but that complicates the Clippers attempts to avoid the double play in situation. But really would have done it if the Blazers had been able to pull off that victory. So, but, but Denver, they have this. You know you mentioned that they finish at San Antonio, they play. Is that, is that you say the Oklahoma City Blue? Is that game also in Oklahoma City?

[Jackson]

It's in Denver. That one's in Denver.

[Brian]

It's in Denver. Okay.

[Jackson]

I'm just saying they might send, they, they, they might send some guys in in the coach seats.

[Wendy]

Not a ton of incentive to compete in the game if they win the two games in la, I would say

[Jackson]

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[Brian]

I want to keep things in perspective. Everything we've got going on in our world of what qualifies as as a disaster from a basketball NBA standpoint.

[Jackson]

We talk about the NBA, we talk about the NBA.

[Brian]

That Lakers turn of events is a disaster to have two players go down like that in the same moment. We talked about it a couple days ago and just getting back here to LA and feeling it like and then

[Jackson]

you lose in Dallas when LeBron has 30 and 15.

[Brian]

Well because Cooper was running so high

[Jackson]

after a 15 win March, Luke was

[Brian]

playing the best basketball of his career.

[Jackson]

The pecking orders defined. Look out. Are the Lakers really a legit contender now? Oh my goodness. Well that you know they get and they just get smacked by the Thunder and now they're there's finger pointing over whose fault it was that Reeves and Luka were playing through stuff in the third quarter when bad went worse. And oh my gosh, what a what a phenomenal March and what an awful first week of April.

[Brian]

I saw the Mavericks at Their team hotel earlier today. McMahon. They were getting ready to go play the Clippers.

[Jackson]

Oh, was there any lobbying?

[Brian]

No lobbying. No lobbying. Oh, you in the lobby? No, there was no lobby.

[Jackson]

You know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Brian]

Cooper flag. No, I don't. I think Cooper lets his game do the talking. I think for the most part it

[Jackson]

spoke pretty loudly over the weekend. We'll see what he does against the Clippers.

[Brian]

So The Lakers ruled LeBron out for the game that's going to be tonight against the Thunder. It doesn't seem like they're really thinking that they're going to have a great chance to win that one. And it looks to me bond temps like the Lakers have accepted potential reality that, you know, that they're not going to be the three seed and that they may need to just take steps to keep what they've got healthy going into next week. And that seems what they may be doing with giving LeBron some time off. And honestly, like they're going to try, you got to try to keep home court. They have the tiebreaker edge on Houston. I think that should be a priority. But they got to prioritize LeBron's health. He's played a lot of minutes in the, in the last week.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I mean, look, they have a game against Utah which they're, they certainly should win.

[Brian]

Utah's fine with it.

[Wendy]

I don't see them beating anybody else this week. If it was me, I would put LeBron in bubble wrap the rest of the week. I wouldn't play him again. And I would try to just give them as much time as possible to get ready for what's almost certainly going to be a first round series, like you said, against Houston. Wouldn't be too concerned if I were them, whether I'm at home or on the road ultimately. I mean, obviously be nice if they're at home, but you know, look, the, the plan doesn't, certainly doesn't seem like Luka Doncic or Austin re should be available. So let's just assume they're not going to be. So if they're not available, the plan of attack has to be fairly simple. You give the ball to LeBron, you spread the floor with shooting, and for two weeks you hope he can set up open three point shooters, which he's done his whole life. And if you bomb away from three, hit a bunch of shots and you know, try to get it close at the end of the game, where the Rockets have consistently been a very poor late game execution team, like I'm not Saying that's a scenario where I feel great about the Lakers chances out Luke and Austin Reese, but that's at least a scenario you could talk yourselves into where maybe LeBron can guile it out for two weeks, you can steal some games, maybe you steal a series and hope that by the time you're playing the Thunder, the reinforcements are back. Now again, that sets up a whole host of other problems given how the Lakers have looked against the Thunder when healthy, let alone with these guys coming back from injury. But you know, you got to figure out the best path forward and if anything happens to LeBron this week, there is no path forward at that point. So it'll be interesting to see what the Lakers do. I mean, obviously if they could find a way to steal the game against Golden State on Thursday, you know, Steph is back. That's probably not a game I would favor the Warrior, the Lakers to win either now. But you know, if you win that game, maybe you could find a way to stay in four, depending on what happens with the Rockets and keep, keep home court, which would be good. But yeah, priority this week needs to just be about keeping LeBron healthy and getting ready for the playoffs because I don't think they're catching three Houston's going

[Brian]

into tonight's game in Phoenix, which is their last road game of the year. Their last three games are home. They've won six in a row and they've put up some really good offense. They've been shooting the three pointer really well, which hadn't been the case for the whole season. Reed Shepherd's been hot. They wiggled out of that game at Golden State a couple days ago when they dealt with Steph going. And listen, anytime the Rockets can survive a fourth quarter, it wasn't their best fourth quarter. They had, I believe, an eight point lead going into the fourth and they held on for dear life. But listen, I have watched them not hold on for dear life in numerous games. So I'll give them that. And that was a game where I think Jabari Smith had a, had a good shooting game. They get five threes in that game. They're in position, McMahon like so they're a game back of, of the Lakers. The Lakers have the tie break so function. They got to make up two games, but their schedule is like I said at Phoenix and then home games to finish. You know, the Lakers, the door is open. The Rockets can, can, you know, the Nuggets have moved into three. The Rockets could stock on the Lakers at four.

[Jackson]

Yeah, and the Rockets are playing Better. You know, Emea Doka is kind of going matchup based on the starting lineup. Now, whether it's going to be Reed shepherd or Tari Eason. You know, clearly the Lakers are the team that the Rockets are hoping to see in the first round. And J.J. redick all. But he said we've got to extend our season to give Lucan and Austin Reaves a chance to get back. I mean, best case scenario is that means extend the first round into the later games. More than likely means win at least a round without them. And then, you know, you're talking about the workload on LeBron. Like I asked JJ about that pregame in Dallas and he acknowledged, yeah, it's absolutely a concern. And you see that with him sitting out tonight. You know, they're trying to figure out like what other. Who else can initiate offense for them. Marcus Smart is also out right now. I mean, Luke Canard was the other guy initiating offense for them. He's, he's a catch and shoot guy. He had a triple double against the Mavericks. But like Luke Canard initiating offense, if he's being defended by Amin Thompson or Tari Eason, like that doesn't sound very appealing or effective. But LeBron is 41 years old now, at least in the first round. The games, it's not like every other night. You know, the schedule is a little bit more spread out, but man, I mean, I know LeBron is one of one and the all time exception, but even him at 41 years old, he can't be having games, you know, stacking on top of each other with these 30 plus usage rates. And he was awesome in Dallas. I mean, 30 points, 15 assists. Honestly, if guys were catching the ball clean, you're making layups or hitting open shots, he could easily had 20 assists in that game. But the idea of LeBron's just going to play at an MVP level every single night, that's not much of a, of a playoff plan.

[Wendy]

Well, and it's worth pointing out just on the other side of this game tonight. So Phoenix currently is in seventh. They're pretty much locked into being seven. However, if they beat Houston Tuesday night, which obviously you'll know by the time the POD comes out whether they win and it is a home game, like, certainly have a real chance to win that game. Their final three games are home against Dallas, should be a win at the Lakers, which at this point frankly should be a win. And at the Thunder, the final game of the season where Oklahoma City will have absolutely nothing to play for. So I'm going to assume if the Suns need to win the game, that's a win. Now they have the tiebreaker on Minnesota, who still does not have Anthony Edwards available, still does not have Jaden McDaniels available. Has not exactly been flying along. They've lost three in a row now. They're playing the Pacers Tuesday night. The Pacers have some flexibility to win. They have a bunch of guys out, though. I doubt Indiana's winning the game, but they are at Orlando, at Houston, and home for the Pelicans, who have been playing a little better and also have no incentive to lose the game. So they got to win two of these four if the Suns win out and if the Suns win tonight, pretty good bet the Suns are going to win out. So there is at least a world where a Minnesota team that is already dealing with Anthony Edwards being banged up and is having some issues could have to do a little bit of work this week to avoid, to avoid being in the plan, which certainly would be a disastrous outcome compared to where we thought they could be the three seed as recently as a week two ago. So just that's something to bear in mind, especially if Phoenix wins this game tonight against Houston. There's, there's going to be walls. Got to do a little bit of work no matter what to get that six seed if that's the case.

[Brian]

But what if LeBron does pull it off?

[Jackson]

Listen, never say never.

[Wendy]

Yeah, never say never.

[Brian]

I will say this like, it's obviously an incredible bummer. The Lakers fans are still in their stages of loss. It's kind of a free roll. It's not what, you know, you want at age 41. You're not free roll.

[Wendy]

It's a total free roll. No one's going to pick the Lakers to win that series. Like, they're going to be without their two, their two perimeter scores, right? Like, and their MVP candidate. Like, you know, now it doesn't mean I certainly am going to be one of the people thinking they're not going to win the series. But, you know, there is a, there's at least a, a pathway there for them to do it. Like, there's a formula they could lean into. It's. I mean, this worked for LeBron for a long time. LeBron's trying to buy three shooters. Like, you know, it's, we've seen it work before. It's not LeBron at 41, but, you

[Jackson]

know, hey, who knows, maybe they might need to load, manage him during the series. I'm not, I'm not even Kidding. They might need to like sit him for one of the road games during the series. But it is astounding how awesome of an athlete LeBron still is. Like some of the drives and dunks or the transition stuff, like at 41 years old, this guy, I, you know, KD, when. When they went through Houston, Katie said, I think he can play till 45, easy. I don't doubt it.

[Brian]

I don't know about all that, but I do think that's one of the supreme bummers of this Lakers season is that not only was Luka playing great, but LeBron had really gotten to a place physically where he was making a big differ.

[Jackson]

Now, part of the reason he got to that place is because he had the lesser role where they didn't have to trip so much on his shoulders.

[Brian]

True. But you know, he's his. His job is to take on the Giant role for seven games.

[Wendy]

I will say though, we saw the two games against the Thunder like the. I. What I am not really going to be here for, and I'm not saying you're doing this, Brian, is the. Oh, the Lakers had figured it out and a run was incoming and they were going to get to the flight, you know, Houston.

[Jackson]

When. With the CP3 thing back in the day. Oh, one hamstring away. This was not a hamstring away.

[Wendy]

That was a stretch at the time because it was conveniently forgotten by everybody in Houston that Andre Godala also had a hamstring, which is why the series is even kind of competitive. And setting that aside, this Lakers team did not have the depth necessary to go toe to toe with the Thunder or these other teams. I know you didn't. I wasn't saying that about you.

[Brian]

I never made hotel reservations in. In la.

[Wendy]

That wasn't happening. It wasn't happening for sure. But it is still a bummer. Like it. You don't want to see guys like this go out with a week to go in the regular seats. Like nobody wants to see that ever. It stinks. But it didn't rob the Lakers of some great run as after they figured things out. Latency.

[Brian]

Now after we said all that, they'll. They'll probably upset the Thunder tonight. No, that's actually not going to happen.

[Jackson]

I still need to make some reservations in Boston for the Finals.

[Brian]

Well, you got bad news for you, buddy, because they're pretty pricey. Yes.

[Jackson]

Yeah, not my bad.

[Brian]

There's also the 2250th you're going to run into the. I don't know what you call 250th anniversary of the United States. But that's happening there too, so look forward to that. All right. By the way, yesterday was checking out. Get up. And what do I see? But the best looking guy in the McMahon family, his 13 year old son Liam showing up on national television eating waffles.

[Jackson]

Wow. Taking shots at his twin brother, badmouthing a 13 year old kid. My other, my other boy, Luca. Man, Wendy, it's a low blow.

[Brian]

Well, Liam agrees.

[Jackson]

Why you got to pick? Why you got to choose?

[Wendy]

It was pretty cool to see.

[Jackson]

Yeah. He just, you know, I said, go ahead, check it out. You know, it was commercial break and he did not anticipate making a, a national TV appearance. I think he might have left the waffle in the kitchen if that was the case.

[Brian]

Well, he wasn't. Just to be clear, he wasn't on live tv. He didn't like stumbled in like.

[Jackson]

That was a commercial break.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And then. But the producers loved it. You know, I'll tell you one thing, those get up producers, don't give them an inch. They'll take a foot.

[Wendy]

They don't miss a trick. For sure. They don't miss a trick.

[Brian]

They were. I'll just take you back to that one time when I was in Phoenix at 5 in the morning and they were like, brian, why are you talking so quietly? We can barely hear you on mic. And this was in the break. And I was like, oh, it's because the woman in the next room, you know, told me to shut the bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. Because it was so early in the morning. Well, they couldn't, they couldn't wait to run with that on the air five seconds later.

[Jackson]

So I tell you, I do apologize for every single time that I mocked the Windy sleep updates. Now that I'm getting a dose of these things.

[Brian]

Yeah. In time, you'll come to fully understand my burden. We have some hope for you, Bon Thames. We'll see. All right. Thank you very much to Jackson and Mark, who produced. Thank you so much for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week.

[Jackson]

Adios, Migos.

[Wendy]

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional cost. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in air.

[Brian]

The.

[Wendy]

The ESPN app. It's all of espn, all in one place. Sign up or activate now.