Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: Can Cavs Turn It Around? NBA Officiating Drama Explained + OKC Stumbles

Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Brian Windhorst, with Tim Bontemps (San Jose, CA) & Ben McMahon (Dallas, TX)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the struggles of the Cleveland Cavaliers and the broader context of NBA teams coping with injuries, high expectations, and salary cap pressures. The crew also breaks down recent drama with NBA officiating—from referee Eric Lewis's unusual return to mounting coach frustrations and headline-grabbing ejections. The episode wraps up with a look at the Oklahoma City Thunder’s surprising stumbles and the intensity surrounding their record-breaking chase.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cleveland Cavaliers: Unraveling a Costly Struggle

Losing Streaks and Mounting Pressure ([01:07] - [19:11])

• Record & Performance Woes:
  • Cavs have lost 8 of their last 11, including "bad teams and home games that you should be winning that you're not," said McMahon ([01:55])
  • Windhorst: "Growing angst in Cleveland...this team...is extraordinarily expensive. Gigantic tax bill." ([02:00])
• Roster Health:
  • "You can't have a conversation about the Cavs without recognizing they've missed two starters for every game this season," Windhorst insists ([06:24])
  • McMahon counters: "The Cavs have a whole bunch of guys on their team with very extensive injury histories...not just bad luck." ([06:40])
• Darius Garland’s Struggles:
  • Tim Bontemps: "In this 11-game stretch, he's shooting 39% from the floor, 30% from three...how many times Darius Garland shot 50% from the field this season? Zero." ([07:33])
• The Trade Question:
  • Windhorst dismisses short-term fixes: "I think they just have to kind of weather the storm. It's an unsatisfactory option to a lot of fans." ([09:54])
  • Bontemps: “Trade Garland or Allen? You're selling low. Not going to get the kind of value in return.” ([10:47])
• Second Apron Woes & High Payroll:
  • McMahon: "Extraordinarily expensive this year, $40 million over the luxury tax. Next year, approaching a $400 million team." ([17:09])
  • "When you have this kind of payroll and those kind of expectations...that leads to consequences of various forms." ([18:28])

Lack of Defensive Identity & Transition Struggles

• Transition Defense:
  • Windhorst: "Cavs do very poorly in transition...the league is playing fast...bad time to have a poor transition team." ([14:01])
• Hunter Critique:
  • "DeAndre Hunter’s supposed to be a good defender but off the ball, just asleep…if you have off-ball movement, you can generate an easy shot way too simply." ([15:14])
• Upcoming Schedule Importance:
  • "They have four days to get this figured out...or they're going to get embarrassed on national television on Thursday [against the Knicks]." ([16:44])

Ownership, Front Office Patience, and Coach Kenny Atkinson

• Fan & Media Pressure:
  • Windhorst: "The seat's starting to get a little warm [for Atkinson]...he's admitted he's made mistakes, copped to the fact adjustments aren't working." ([19:49])
  • "Their intent is: Strus is getting closer...Mobley still a couple more weeks...they're hoping they're going to look different." ([21:10])
• Trade/Change Outlook:
  • "They've made their bed with this team...if we get to the spring and they lose in the first round...I'd be stunned if this team looks the same in all facets next year," says McMahon. ([24:33])
• Notable Quotes:
  • Windhorst [02:33]: "Forget about the standings. The Standings are not relevant because the way the team is playing right now, it doesn't matter where you finish."
  • McMahon [17:09]: "...extraordinarily expensive...supposed to be a championship contending team...they've been awful."
  • Windhorst [25:27]: "For better or worse, patience is the only thing you can really have."

2. NBA Officiating: Referee Drama, Instability, and Return of Eric Lewis

Eric Lewis’s Return ([25:29] - [32:00])

• The Scandal and Comeback:
  • Eric Lewis, a top veteran ref, had retired after a burner Twitter account scandal; now reinstated on a pathway starting in the G League.
    • Windhorst: "I think Eric Lewis was one of the best referees the league had." ([27:01])
    • McMahon: "He's universally regarded as a really good ref...done several finals games...91 playoff games." ([27:26])
• League-Wide Officiating Talent Drain:
  • Many veteran refs gone due to injury, retirement, COVID, or other issues, impacting officiating quality.
    • Bontemps: “There’s been a talent drain...not a coincidence that Eric Lewis is being brought back.” ([30:57])
• Optics & Social Media:
  • Tim Bontemps: "It was terrible optics." ([29:09])
• Notable Quotes:
  • Windhorst [27:01]: "For a ref, [the training is]...Don’t."
  • McMahon [29:02]: "You’re not supposed to be on social media, and he was...you’re not supposed to talk to the crowd, much less."

League Tension with Coaches & Ref Critics ([32:00] - [53:17])

• Coaches Firing Back:
  • "A lot of complaining. More than usual." (Bontemps, [33:03])
• Example: JB Bickerstaff & Pool Reports:
  • Recounting a "soft" ejection of Asar Thompson after contact with a ref; ambiguity led to no suspension. ([33:38]–[34:52])
  • "If you bump a ref, it's almost an automatic game. The fact he didn't get a game, there was some ambiguity." (McMahon, [34:29])
• JB Bickerstaff’s Reputation:
  • "JB is number one in the league at riding the ref," McMahon says. ([35:49])
  • "Continuous complaining," cited as cause for a technical at halftime ([36:11])
• Recent Referee Critiques, Technicals, and Fines:
  • Multiple coach & player fines noted—the environment is tense.
  • High praise for new league executive James Jones: “Good working relationship between referees and league office.” ([39:12])
  • "Referee job is hard, but...good relations...I'm just reporting it." (Windhorst, [39:19])
• Chris Finch’s Ejection:
  • Finch ejected 5 minutes into Wolves-Thunder game, seemingly premeditated to fire up his team:
    • "It felt like it might have been a premeditated...get ejected five minutes into the game," McMahon. ([47:35])
    • After his ejection, Minnesota rallied for a clutch win.
  • Ant Edwards' heroics: "Game winner, then block on Shai, then steals it on the final play for the trifecta." ([50:36]–[51:11])
  • Finch fined $35,000.
  • "That's the kind of win that can be a galvanizing type of win for them." (Bontemps, [52:10])

Notable Quotes

• Windhorst (on officiating): "If you have a good referee, you don't let him go unless you have to." ([27:51])
• McMahon: "A lot of veteran referees have retired...they have not been replaced." ([31:04])

3. Oklahoma City Thunder: Record Pace, Recent Stumbles, and Perception Shift

([53:17] - [56:07])

• Expectations & Recent Slip:
  • Thunder had been on record 74-win pace, now "1 and 2 since then"—but still on pace for 73.2 wins. ([54:26]–[56:07])
  • Banner stat: "Thunder are 25 and 1 when they don’t have their preferred starting lineup, 0 and 2 when they do." ([54:26])
• Close Games & Blown Leads:
  • “In each of their losses, they've blown double-figure leads. ...Hey, the Thunder are going to be up by double figures. It's just a matter of can you come back or not?" ([55:38])
• Other Comments:
  • “They’re a powerhouse.” (Windhorst, [55:56])
  • The league is now circling their games, with teams and coaches motivated to make statements when facing OKC.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Windhorst on Cavs’ stuggles:
  • "Forget about the standings. The standings are not relevant because the way the team is playing right now, it doesn't matter where you finish." ([02:33])
• Bontemps on Darius Garland:
  • "In this 11-game stretch, he's shooting 39% from the floor, 30% from three...zero times shooting 50% from the field." ([07:33])
• McMahon on officiating:
  • "There's been a talent drain (among refs)...not a coincidence that Eric Lewis is being brought back." ([30:57])
• McMahon on trade options:
  • "Even if you say, hey, Cavs should go make moves...you're selling guys that are playing very poorly...the only guy who's played to his level this season is Donovan Mitchell." ([22:57])
• Bontemps on Finch’s ejection/strategy:
  • "It felt like it might have been a premeditated...I'm going to find a way to get ejected five minutes into the game." ([47:35])
• Windhorst on league officiating mood:
  • "A lot of complaining. More than even usual, I would say." ([33:03])

Highlighted Timestamps for Key Segments

• Cavs’ recent struggles & injury talk: [01:07] – [07:16]
• Darius Garland’s and roster issues: [07:16] – [11:15]
• Trade/patience debate: [09:54] – [14:01]
• Transition defense, Hunter critique: [14:01] – [17:09]
• Atkinson’s job security/coaching outlook: [19:11] – [22:10]
• Eric Lewis referee reinstatement: [25:29] – [32:00]
• League-wide officiating drama: [32:00] – [39:38]
• Chris Finch ejection/Wolves summary: [47:16] – [53:17]
• OKC Thunder’s record pace & stumbles: [53:17] – [56:07]

Tone & Language

Throughout, the discussion is analytical but candid, blending humor (“all roads lead to 39 wins” for the Bulls, [03:20]), straight talk on team mismanagement, and inside-league perspective. Speakers freely “call out” underperformers and spotlight inside-the-numbers context while keeping the conversation loose, frank, and plugged into the NBA’s ongoing storylines.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode offers a comprehensive breakdown of why the Cavaliers are floundering—balancing injuries, sluggish play, and fiscal constraints with little hope of an immediate fix. The crew explains how league-wide ref turnover affects consistency, how Eric Lewis’s return fits into this, and why coach blow-ups (like Chris Finch’s) aren’t just sound and fury, but can be clever psychological plays. The Thunder’s continued excellence, even amid some stumbles, stakes their claim as a team that now attracts everyone’s best effort—and scrutiny.

If you want a specific breakdown from a part of the episode, request a timestamp and it can be expanded further.