← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Can Knicks Take Control Of East? + Can OKC Break NBA Wins Record?
00:54:41
Hoop Collective: Can Knicks Take Control Of East? + Can OKC Break NBA Wins Record?
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Chevrolet together, let's drive foreign.
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Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Tuesday evening. Joining us from New York City, where they're celebrating in the streets tonight because the Knicks were victorious in the NBA cup quarterfinals. And Bontemps, you and the Knicks are headed out to Vegas. Tim Bontemps, that's true.
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A
I am headed to Las Vegas in a couple days for the cup semifinals. Tonight I was at Madison Square Garden where the Knicks were not playing, though to watch McMahon a window discovery in person. AJ Debancer, who, who had a very rough first half like the BYU Cougars did. They were down 43 to 22 at halftime and then AJ Debance had 22 points in the second half and BYU came back and won the game at the buzzer and he looked every bit the top two or three pick in the draft. He's going to be.
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B
I was with Christian of Christian and Scooby. He was in Omaha tonight because he's performing at the University of Nebraska tomorrow and he's a big Raptor fan.
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A
Rough night for Christian in the Raptors.
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B
He was keeping an eye on the situation. You know, he was, you know, he's twisting in the wind to that game. Anyway, joining us from Oklahoma City. Well, he'll be in attendance for Wednesday night's Thunder Sons game is Van McMahon.
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C
Howdy, partners. You can't spell craps without raps, but they won't be there to roll the dice in Vegas. How, how you like that?
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A
That was, that was awful. Yeah, that was as awful as the performance from the Raptors as they've now, I believe, lost six of seven.
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B
Well, that's the thing. So this NBA cup, the teams, some of the teams that were in it in these semifinals are, are not playing as well as when when they clinched their their semi or their quarterfinal spot. Like, you know, the, the Heat lost tonight to the Magic. The Heat have now lost four in a Row. And so they are out. And the ma and the Raptors were the number one seed in.
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Dominating their group by. I think they had the number one differential. They might have the 1:1 differential.
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A
They wound up being the second seed knees because the. The Magic beat the half the Sixers by a thousand points and oh okay. Their second to last game.
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B
They did cruise.
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A
They did cruise through the group stage and they have since. Since RJ Barrett got hurt. They really struggled and I was going.
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C
To say they have not been the same since former Nick and potential future maverick RJ Barrett went down.
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True.
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A
Well, no, they have not been.
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B
The Knicks, however, have won, I believe eight of nine. Now Jalen Brunson had who's having a very strong season. Jalen Brunson had a terrific performance in this one. He had 20 points in the first.
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A
Quarter, I think and 26 in the first half.
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B
26 in the first half. 35 for the game on 13 of 19 shooting, 6 of 9 from 3. That's tough to overcome. The Knicks are I think top three in offense now certainly during this stretch, this nine game stretch. I think they're definitely top three. And while they were a very good offense under Tom Thibodeau, their, their scoring is up and you know, their pace, which is something that Mike Brown wanted to install. Their pace is about the same as it was last year, but their scoring is up. Josh Hart is after dealing with some injuries early in the season. He is rounding into form. His shot looked great tonight. Just. He had four threes.
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C
OG Anunoby, big game for the Roommate show.
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B
Yeah. OG Anunoby also coming off the, coming off the. The injury. Had a good performance in his old stomping grounds in Toronto. And Mikhail Bridges, he's. He's having a very good year, guys and a plus 19 in this one. So I would say Bontemps. You go to a lot of Knicks games. We haven't talked about the Knicks a lot. They haven't been very good on the road. This was their, they win this one to improve to just four and six. But eight out of nine, that's something to pay attention to. And they go to Vegas with some good momentum now.
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A
Yeah, I'm going to give Nate Duncan credit for saying something that I hadn't really thought of until he said it on his pod today, which is that you look up and down the east and there was a couple of weeks ago we talked about how well Atlanta was playing. Then they came home and lost a bunch of games. The Celtics were losing early in the year now they've ripped off a bunch of wins in a row. We talked the other day about how they're playing great right now. A week and a half ago, we were talking about how great the Raptors were playing. Now they've lost six out of seven, they've gone the other way. And I was just looking at the standings, and from Boston in third to the Hawks currently in ninth, the standings are separated by a game and a half. And I think through a lot of the season, and I think you could maybe see Detroit fall into that mix, too. They've been kind of 500 since. They're a great streak. But the Knicks at least are built with their team the way they are with Jalen Brunson being out there. And even though Carl Towns didn't play in this game, if they can keep that starting five healthy and get on a roll. Didn't play in which game Carl Towns.
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B
Did play, he didn't play great, but he had 16 rebounds.
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A
Well, right. I mean, sorry. I mean, he's been dealing with.
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B
I mean, he missed the last game. He missed last.
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A
He's been dealing with injuries and he's been in and out of the lineup lately is what I meant. I misspoke. But the Knicks have a chance to run away and hide at the top of the conference. I think if they can string some wins together, because they. They have, at least when their guys are available, they've got a pretty consistent theory of who they're going to be. And led by Jalen Brunson and led by this offense, which, like you said, with, with these guys going with Carl Towns especially playing all the time at center or just about all the time at center now, like, their offense is going to be really good and they're going to hit a lot of shots and they're going to score a lot of points. And they, like you said, they are 131 at home. They've totally cleaned up at home. They should be better on the road than they've been. And I think because of how on topsy turvy the rest of the conference is, like, it's a good time for the Knicks to get hot. And if they can run away and hide at the top, especially given they don't have a ton of depth, that could make a real difference for them down the second half of the year if they can be able to prepare for the playoffs and get some cushion on everybody. Well.
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C
And you got to figure Towns is going to get going at some point and you know, you know, he kind of had like the weird comments about his fitness offense that, you know, theoretically should really benefit him, but he hadn't looked real comfortable in it. He's shooting a career low from the floor and the lowest 3 point percentage that he's had since his rookie year. But it's not like, you know, he's, he's Spitzpamot, greatest self proclaimed greatest shooting big man of all time. Like, it's not like he forgot how to shoot the ball. So, you know, at some point he's going to put together like a three or four week period where he's shooting like 55 from the floor, 45 from three point range and the numbers will, you know, get back closer to his career norms.
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A
But the fact that still averaging 22 and a half and 12, it's not like he's not like he's averaging 15 a game either.
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C
No, but you know, you, you are used to him shooting at 40ish from three point range and shooting, you know, 55% or so from the floor. And he's, he's down in the mid-40s from the floor and mid-30s from three point range. I just, you know, it's at some point like he's going to get in a groove and the fact that they're reeling off all these wins without him shooting the ball the way that he has for, you know, a decade now, basically is I think an encouraging sign for the Knicks.
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B
I mentioned Bridges. You know, a lot of people talk about the trade, I get it. Not everybody loved that extension that he signed over the summer. Even though I think the Knicks were pretty happy to get him at that number. He's having an excellent season. He's shooting his highest, I think in four or five years, shooting over 40% from three, 41% from three going into tonight, averaging more than a block a game and two steals a game. His plus minus is just routinely been really good. So. And of course with some guys in and out of the lineup, he's been there every game. So by the way, Jackson tells us that tonight the knicks are over 50% in five consecutive road games for the first time since 1984.
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C
Whoa.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Are you even alive in 84?
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A
Part of the year. And the, the other thing Knicks have going for him too is, I mean I, I did just mention Towns has been banged up for a bunch of the air with his quad thing and you know, he's been in, been on the injury report a lot. But Jalen Brunson rarely misses games. Carl Towns rarely misses games. Mikel Bridges never misses games O.J. anunoby is back healthy. Like you look up and down the east, there's either main stars out like Tatum, obviously in Boston, or these other teams are a mass unit. And that's again like the Knicks have a chance right now. If they could have a good month or six weeks now, I think they could get some real separation at the top and that could wind up making a really big difference for them. Especially when a couple weeks ago when they were scuffling, it didn't look like they were going to have a chance to, you know, they might be right in the mix with all these other teams and they've I think they've got a chance to really go on a run here. We'll see if Vegas can be a springboard for him.
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I I'm not sure I'd put Cat in the group of extraordinarily durable players. He has missed a lot of games.
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Yeah, 17 double doubles, second in the league behind Jokic, man, rebounds.
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That's for sure.
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Jokic. How many, how many triple doubles does he have? Jackson? He might have about 17 triple doubles.
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Jokic definitely certainly wouldn't shock me if he did.
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McMahon looked it up. 11 triple doubles for Jokic so far this year. 11. If you had that in the in the sweepstakes.
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Okay, Magic win by I believe it was nine over the Miami Heat earlier on Tuesday night in the first game out of the gate. He'd have now lost four games in a row and have been ice cold shooting during that stretch. I think they're shooting under 30% from three in those four losses. But the magic McMahon, your old guy with the Grizzlies, Desmond Bain, who we talked a little bit ago about the price that the Knicks paid for Mikhail Bridges and aren't apologizing for it. I'll tell you what, even though his overall numbers are down, the Magic are feeling better about the price they paid in the off season for Desmond Bain, who had his third 37 point game just the last two weeks. Had a big start to the fourth quarter in this one which got Orlando some separation that they they needed there. Obviously without Franz Wagner, he has a high ankle sprain he's going to miss, you know, multiple weeks here. But Paolo Banqueira was back. He snapped playing his normal self, but he put up a decent game tonight and they had some threes and when the Magic, you know, they're not the greatest three point shooting team but when Des Bane goes six and nine you're, you know, the math moves to their side. Especially on a night, like I said, where Miami struggled from three well and.
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C
They needed a big Bane performance because like I said, Franz Wagner's out. And the good news is is it's a high ankle sprain and not something significantly worse. You know, it's an injury that is, you know, a weeks long recovery and not a season ending type of thing like it was feared it might be just the way that he went down. But then Banchero is playing his way back into a rhythm. He's still on a minutes restriction. You know, Bankaro's also honestly he's at the point of his career where he's got to prove that his numbers impact winning. But with Ben Caro not fully back yet with with Franz out, they needed Bane to have a big time performance and he certainly came through for him. And you know, again I don't think anybody in Orlando was panicked that he got off to a slow shooting start because you're much better believing years worth of a sample than, you know, a few weeks. Desmond Bain's going to be able to shoot the Ball. He's going to be one of the best volume 3 point shooters in the league. And you know, certainly tonight was a case of the numbers evening out for him a little bit.
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A
That's certainly true. I, I thought the thing that was interesting from this game was on the Miami side. You know, the Heat opened this game up with a 150 run. They're up 18 to 2. Look like they had a chance to really jump on Orlando. No Franz Wagner, Paolo Banchero getting back into the swing of things, as you guys both said. And this game ends up flipping by almost 30 points by the end of it and looking up the exact quote that I saw before. But Norman Powell after the game was talking about the fact that people have started to figure out their offense. You said quote, we're all at everybody's scouting report and how we play the pace, trying to slow us down. We have to do our jobs better to make it easier for everybody else. I would say this is a little bit of a repeat of what happened last year in Memphis after they got off to a very hot start on offense, running some different stuff than what people were used to. And then as the year went on, people started to scout it and game plan for it and figure it out a little bit. And it, it went back the other way some sort of. And obviously they're getting Tyler Herro back in the mix. He's been in and out of the lineup with injuries. Nora's been out of the lineup with injuries. They probably weren't going to be overall as hot as they were early on, but for as much as we've talked about their offense, they are in the middle of the pack and offense now. Their offense did fall apart after the first three minutes of this game. And moving forward, it is going to be interesting to see if this is a flash in the pan and they correct some things and they get back to humming along or has this really been a real legitimate bump in the road and people have started to figure some things out and we'll see. But I'm curious about that and frankly, the Knicks the past couple of years have. I know they beat Orlando the other day, but they have typically been very bad against Orlando the past couple of years. So I am curious to see how the Magic, even without Franz, match up with them in this first cup semifinal on Saturday afternoon.
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B
One of the things that's happened with the Heat since Hero came back in, although he missed the previous two games before this, but he came back from the foot surgery then he was actually his shooting Percentages weren't, were pretty good and then he was 0 of 6 on threes tonight. But they took to, they rejiggled their starting lineup and they took Khalil Ware out of it. And you know, Khalil Ware is still young second year player and he doesn't put up big numbers every night but that seemed to have contributed. And again he's been in and out because Hero's been in and out. But.
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He and Jaime Haquez were had bigger roles before Hero came back and they were playing great. And since that has happened, in addition to Bontemps point, maybe about the league, you know, catching up on some of the scouting, they've lost their mojo a little bit. You know, they only played where 12 minutes tonight and he was -15 in those 12 minutes. In fact, their whole bench was blasted tonight after they got off to that great start.
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C
Honestly, the number that sticks out to me there is the 12 minutes because he is a extraordinarily talented guy as a seven footer who's really springy and can shoot the ball.
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12 minutes, that's a tough number for me. And Hawk has got off to such a great start.
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You know, he was playing his sixth man of the year level through the first month or so.
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That drop off is not great. But you know the thing with like with the Grizzlies last year, remember one of the reasons that they just decided to go ahead and pull the plug on Taylor Jenkins and it wasn't his offense, it was no larouche's but one of the reasons that they decided to pull the plug when they did is because they'd lost. Like I forgot what it was nine or ten straight games to teams that were.500 or better. And so there was questions that, okay, hey, you know, this offense can, can beat bad teams but you know, can it hold up against the better competition? And then the other thing, just talking to scouts about it last year, even when the Grizzlies were rolling, you know, I heard a lot of, hey, it's one thing when you're catching a team.
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You know, it's got a day to prepare for it. It'll be another thing come playoff time when, you know, teams can really kind of lock in on the Scadden report and the scheme and all those kind of things. So you know, whether any of that proves to be true or not, those are the, I guess external nitpicking about.
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B
The offensive scheme on the magic side. You know, I've talked about this before but you know, we've Seen it now. This is the third year of the NBA Cup. We see some teams sort of take leaps by getting the opportunity to go play, you know, for something with stakes, which is, you know, the point of the dub at this time of the year. And, you know, obviously, Orlando has a. Has a good shot here. You know, this is a team that hasn't advanced in the playoffs very deep, and this is in the playoffs since.
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A
Dwight Howard was on the team.
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B
Right, right. So this is, you know, significant thing for them to build off of. We certainly saw this. You know, they aren't a surprise to get here. I think if we'd have said at the beginning of the season that the Magic would be one of the final four in the NBA Cup, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense with their upgrades, but considering the. The injuries they've had, they've, you know, and the sort of. The sluggish start, you know, they are gaining momentum, and, you know, this is a great opportunity for them to play with something with some stakes in it and get the experience. And even last year, you know, the Bucks won it.
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The. The Thunder, even though they lost it, you know, had to deal with some demons a little bit in the way they played in that final game. So I'm not sure.
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C
And the Pacers, you know. The Pacers, yeah. Was that two years ago with the Pacers?
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B
Yeah, two years ago. The Pacers kind of came out of nowhere. Made the. Made the. The final Fox got there last year.
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C
That's right.
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B
Yeah. The Hawks. That last year was the year where the Hawks beat the Knicks. The Knicks actually lost in the quarterfinals last two years, I think. Bond Thompson. I think it was last year where Trey Young came into the Garden, won another, you know, another game at the.
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A
Darden, rolled dice at center court.
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B
Yeah, you remember, he rolled the dice and everybody. I don't know if I would say everybody, but certain people were angry about.
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A
Was talked about in these parts quite a bit. Added to Trae Young's lore is one of the. The true villains at msg, which is always fun, right? But, yeah, like, look, this is a young Magic team that, you know, very few of these guys have been in any kind of real pressure situations in the NBA. You know, I'm just thinking through their roster. I mean, well, they have. They have a little bit of playoff.
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C
Experience, but no playoff success.
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A
Right. They lost.
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C
Yeah. Even the veteran they brought in, Desmond Bain, he's been in the playoffs on multiple occasions, but he's only won one series. You know, those we find in the West Grizzlies were only able to win one series during that chapter in the franchise's history. So, you know, even Bane, being the piece they hope could kind of put them over the top, hasn't had a ton of playoff success.
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A
I believe he's the only guy on the roster that has advanced out of the first round of the playoffs ever.
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C
So his former Grizzlies teammate Tyus Jones would, would be the other one.
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A
Oh, right, him and Ty. Correct.
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C
Yeah.
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A
So. But still, that's a well dressed exit ties.
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B
He's not playing that big of a role, but okay.
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A
Well. But yeah, so that's. It will be interesting to see how they handle it. I mean there's, there's going to be, I would think, an awful lot of Knicks fans in Vegas on Saturday. I would say it would be a semi road game for Orlando. And like I said, these teams have a good amount of history over the past couple years. They played a lot of times and outside of Sunday, the Magic have pretty consistently handled them. So I think it's going to be a fun matchup and, you know, for Paolo Ben Caro to have a couple extra days to get his body right after, you know, he's working his way back, we'll see if he can get some more minutes in him and, you know, hopefully the Knicks will be feeling pretty good. Deuce McBride missed Wednesday's game with an ankle or Tuesday's game with an ankle sprain. We'll see if he's back for Saturday.
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But yeah, I'm excited to watch that game. I think it'll be, I think it'll be fun.
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C
And Ben Carroll played 32 minutes tonight, so it's not like too tight of a minute's restriction?
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A
No.
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B
All right, so the east semifinal is set in Vegas and we'll be right back here on the Hoop Collective where we will go back in time several hours where we taped the other part of the show, and you will see McMahon magically transform into back to being in Dallas.
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C
He did cross the Red river, baby.
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He did these first two segments in Oklahoma City after the grueling trip from Dallas.
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A
Long flight up there.
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C
37 minutes.
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A
More hoop collective podcast after this.
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So on Wednesday, McMahon, you will be on site there in Oklahoma City to see the Suns play against the Thunder in Western Conference finals Semifinal semifinal one or cup semifinal one.
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C
And then in LA quarter it's an NBA quarterfinals game.
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A
That was. Yes, that was quite the mealy mouth explanation.
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B
Right? But it was like sort of the west semifinals. I guess it is the NBA cup quarterfinals. I guess that's the proper terminology. Sorry. Spurs at lakers in Game 2.
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It doesn't sound like great news, McMahon, for the Suns being able to get Devin Booker back for this game. They've. They've obviously been playing well without him.
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The, I think the line right now as we're recording this is thunder by 15 and a half, which is less.
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C
Than their average point differential.
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B
Okay, so that's a compliment to the Sun. Seriously.
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C
Seriously. You're basically saying, hey, the Suns are an above average team, especially on the road. You know that's a compliment. I mean the Thunder are almost impossible to beat. Think about it, their one loss this season. They were up 22 on the second night of a back to back with several core guys sitting and Portland was able to rally and beat them by a bucket. They're just, this is a juggernaut, maybe unlike any that we have ever seen before. And the Suns came through OKC recently and actually gave the Thunder a heck of a fight. They were down 15 early in the fourth and you know, got it back to within one. But the craze, like of all the things the Thunder do just at an awesome level, closing games might be where they're at their best. Do you know what their clutch net rating is?
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A
I'm going to guess it's 30.
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Wendy sounds like he's low. I'll like be prices right? I'll say 31 to try to win plus 41.4. We weren't even close.
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A
I just pulled 30 out of my 1.4.
- [27:06]
B
Not the only time you've done that.
- [27:08]
C
Exactly. And it's, it's not a huge sample size but it's, it's like 54 minutes point being even if you can't keep it close typically what happens then is Shay patsy on the head, you know raining cajones factor player of the month shake out this Alexander patch on the head knocks down a few mid range jumpers, hits all his free throws and you get and you and you go home.
- [27:31]
A loser. I mean I'm not saying they're unbeatable. I'm just sitting here telling you it's hard for me to come up with a way that the Phoenix Suns are going to go to Oklahoma City especially if you know Devin Booker's not available and be able to pull out a win to be a pretty major upset.
- [27:48]
B
Well I keep when the topic of how dominant the Thunder are come up, I keep really bringing out the last two seasons. So I just want to say that they started last season 11 and 4 which was awesome. Isaiah Hardenstein was out and I feel like one of their other rotation players were out for the first 15 games since that time since they started last season 11 and four which that drags down their numbers. But since starting last season at 11 and 4 they are 80 and 12 I believe Radian 13.
- [28:29]
They are something like 45 and 3 at home. And this is regular season. They obviously lost some, some home games in the playoffs they had two seven game series. We remember Tyrese Halliburton hitting that shot right at the end of game one. They lost game one of the finals last year at home but there's something like since that 11 and 4 start there's something like 45 and 3 at home in the regular season. Although is this count the regular season or is this doesn't count the regular season.
- [29:00]
C
For the regular we're the, we're in the third year of the cup. Yes, they count until the final. It's like a snake draft. You'll just never get it.
- [29:09]
B
I respect the cup. I don't mean they're also.
- [29:11]
A
They're also. I, I just thought of the math while you were talking. It's 8 and 11 since that 11 and 4 start, which is an awfully good winning percentage. It's pretty good.
- [29:21]
C
It's incredible.
- [29:22]
B
So that's a 88% winning percentage over from 15 games on last year onward. And so an 88 winning percentage over 82 games is 72. So I would say that they're already like, people are like, can they win 70? I'm like, guys, they've been playing at a 72 win pace.
- [29:42]
A
Of course they can win 70. The question isn't can they win 70, the question is will they win 70 and will they win 74? I think at this point, that's honestly the real question that we should be having is can this. Can they stake a claim to be the best team we've ever seen, potentially? Because if they go 74 and 8 or 75 and 7 and they win the title, which obviously the warriors did not do, the latter part, like, they're going to have an argument to be the best team ever. Which is why I hope that they fully embrace this and go after it as the season goes on. Because, like, yes, it. I understand that the main thing is the main thing, and you want to lift the trophy at the end, but there are very few teams in the history of any sport that have the ability to credibly say they're the best team ever. And this team through 24 games is on pace to have that kind of argument. And so I hope they embrace it and chase it.
- [30:36]
C
You know what's terrifying? They're 23 and 1 and they've lost the second most player games to injury of any team in the league.
- [30:45]
A
It's insane.
- [30:46]
C
Now, you know, some of that's Nikola Topic and Thomas Sorber, obviously they're rookies.
- [30:50]
A
But you know what, some of it is Jalen Williams, who.
- [30:53]
C
17 games of the season, actually for first 19.
- [30:57]
A
And by the way, 19, right, is.
- [30:59]
C
Basically having to relearn how to shoot a basketball while regaining. He doesn't have full range of motion in that wrist. There's muscle atrophy. Like, he's not. He's not near himself yet. And they just keep rolling along. You know, Isaiah Hartenstein's been out. Caruso's missed a bunch of games. Chet's missed some games, like Lou Dort's missed a bunch of games, like their key guys are missing games. The other night, Shea sat for the first time all season. They listed with an elbow. I think was just one of those, like, you know, let's. Let's just take it easy type of things.
- [31:34]
B
It was interesting it was against the Jazz.
- [31:35]
C
It was strategic. I mean, it was against the Jazz.
- [31:38]
B
How many players do you think they.
- [31:40]
C
Beat the Jazz by? A thousand?
- [31:42]
B
How many? The game was in Utah. How many players do we think that the Thunder would have had to have sat to lose to the Jazz? How many of their. How many. How far down the list would they go, by the way?
- [31:54]
A
10.
- [31:54]
B
Howard marketing was. Was out for that game with illness, and for all I know he was puking his guts out. I don't have any interest in that, any insight into that. But it was interesting that shortly after Shea was announced as doubtful, I think all of a sudden marketing popped up. The reason we're saying this is because the, the Thunder get the Jazz's pick if it's outside the top eight. So there's just sort of this little interplay between the Jazz and Thunder. It's. I don't, I don't think it would have mattered that Thunder were winning that game, but I'm just wondering, how far down are we? I don't know.
- [32:27]
C
Brandon Carlson comes in there and lights it up. I'm telling you, they've got like the Thunder, just like Sam Presti just finds quality rotation players in his pockets. Like, you know, sometimes you put on a pair of jeans and there's a 20 bill in there. You're like, oh, sweet. That's what they do with rotation players in Oklahoma City.
- [32:44]
B
I remember probably five or six, I don't know, a number of years ago. Nick Saban, you know, Alabama, he was in his prime and I think Alabama, like lost like a linebacker and he was like, you know, I don't remember who it was, was like a five star recruit linebacker who was like preseason all American. And if you're an Alabama fan, maybe you can correct me on the exact details of this. But, you know, you know, Saban was sort of defiant talking about it. He was like, you guys just assume that when we lose a player, we just bleep out another one. You just. They just always assume that we just got another player.
- [33:22]
C
Yeah, they do.
- [33:23]
B
The guy that they put in, like made All American.
- [33:27]
And that's probably what it feels like to play against the Thunder right now. For some of these teams, I'd say it definitely does.
- [33:33]
A
I mean, as McMahon said, they're favored by 15 and a half and it's less than their net rating. I mean, it's just staggering.
- [33:39]
B
But we should not totally overlook the Suns. You know, they're in a tough spot without Booker. He's averaging 25 a game as their Leading scorer obviously have only had Jalen green for like 30 minutes all season and he won't play in this game. I do think that, you know, there's a couple of success stories on the Suns that we should talk about. You know, one, obviously we, we've talked about Colin Gillespie, who has been a terrific find for them as point card and awesome. But like, let's acknowledge that Mark Williams. Yeah, the guy who was cast aside.
- [34:14]
By the. Well, I shouldn't say. Let me take that back. I don't want to say cast aside. He was. They, they voided is the trade because of physical reasons, which, you know, I.
- [34:22]
A
Think cast aside is fair. I mean, he was, he was cast aside by the Lakers and then he was cast aside by the Hornets. Yes, the Hornets got a couple of first round picks in the trade. The 29th, Pickley and McNeely and then a future first for it. But like the Hornets opted out of paying Mark Williams and the Lakers opted out of having Mark Williams and then eventually paying Mark Williams and the Sun's chased him down and, and we'll see if Mark Williams can stay healthy. I, I think it's a fair question to wonder if he could stay on the court. He's a lot like Robert Williams and that if they are healthy, they are very effective players. But look, he's, you know, 25 minutes a game, he's averaging 13 and 8 and he's giving him good production, shooting 66% from the field. He's, I mean, he's, he's a really big blob threat in the paint and he's, you know, again, if it's only a matter of health with him, if he could stay on the court, he'll be a useful piece. And also, like we've talked about him some, but no, Dylan Brooks has come in and given them good minutes, like good minutes.
- [35:20]
C
He's averaging 22 and setting a tone in terms of toughness.
- [35:25]
A
Yes, I mean, I think it's, I mean, he's still pretty inefficient, but it, to me, it's what you talked about, I think on the last pod, where whatever you want to say about Dylan Brooks and his antics at times, like he has gone to three different teams and has helped change the culture of each of those teams and instilled it with an edge that has been really beneficial and sometimes the edge can go too far the other way. You know, certainly that was the case in Memphis. I don't think it was the case in Houston. And we'll see if it's the case in Phoenix. But he deserves a lot of credit for the way this is going. And Jordan Ott deserves a ton of credit because yes, there's certain pieces that aren't there from last year and the mix around the team is better. But this is a first time head coach who has walked in and not had a full roster all the time and has done, I think a great job across the board.
- [36:16]
B
You mentioned how he, how he, how Mark Williams is getting a lot of dunks. I got the number.
- [36:20]
C
Oh, let's hear it.
- [36:21]
B
In 20 games, by the way, how do you shoot 66% dunk a lot? 30% of these shots, probably the best play. 30% of his shots have been dunks. He has 45, 45 dunks in 20 games. Even I know that's two and a half a game.
- [36:36]
C
Well.
- [36:39]
B
Who'S their sort of backup big one of their backup bigs? They got a bunch of bigs. He's got 21 dunks in 24 games.
- [36:46]
C
Would have been 46 for Mark Williams, but our power Rudy Gobert gave him a midair forearm shiver to the ribs to get a flagrant two and put Rudy within a couple of flagrant points of getting a suspension.
- [36:59]
A
Yeah, talk about them in a minute.
- [37:01]
C
That was a pretty blatant cheap shot. But no, Williams has been great. And look, the Suns came into the season with a couple of goals, a few goals I would say, that are all directly related. Reset the franchise's culture, put a competitive product on the floor and stop the head coach carousel from spinning. Right. This is going to be the first time since Matt Ishby has bought the team that they're going to have the same head coach in two straight years because they have a head coach in Jordan Knott who is doing a heck of a job, who is getting the players to buy in and the players feel like there's a relationship, that it's a two way street.
- [37:44]
And you know, so that was critical. They wanted to be kind of a tough, hard playing, you know, fast paced type of team. They certainly have accomplished that. And you know, they're going Oklahoma City 14 and 10. I, I think people would have thought they were more likely to be in fourth or 14th place than 14, 10.
- [38:06]
A
No doubt.
- [38:07]
C
So this is been a very successful early season for the Phoenix Suns and like they've got to keep finding guys like Colin Gillespie and making trades for people like Mark Williams. You know, I my biggest criticism frankly of the Suns since the end of last season. They should have pounced on the deal from the New Orleans Pelicans. The Pelicans were calling every team about Derrick Queen trying to move up. Yeah, for the Suns to be able to get another star, that's the kind of trade that they probably have to make. But again, all their goals entering the season, the Suns are well on their way to accomplishing.
- [38:46]
B
Yeah, well, not everybody got offered the deal that the Hawks ended up pulling off. There's probably a 30 for 30 there on that trade, potentially depending on how it goes. But Derek Queen, I should point out, had his first career triple double on Monday.
- [38:58]
C
Derek Queen's active players still a terrible trade.
- [39:01]
B
All right. In the late game on Wednesday, we got the spurs going to the Lakers in the cup quarter finals.
- [39:07]
C
There you go.
- [39:08]
B
We were hoping that Victor Wembanyama would be able to play for this game and it hasn't. As of right now, we're recording this. We don't have a firm answer on that, but he did not practice with the spurs on Tuesday, which is not a good sign, especially when you've been out for a couple of weeks. So maybe that's not going to happen. The spurs have gotten healthier though with Stefan Castle is back and they've done a really, they've done really well without Victor. I believe they're 7 and 3, 8.
- [39:34]
C
And 3, 8 and 3 and I believe they're 8 and 4 with them, 8 and 3 without them. So hey, take your time, big fella. Who needs Victor when Yama they probably.
- [39:42]
B
Him against the Lakers in la. I should point out, you know, there's been a lot of attention to play to some other rookies. Dylan Harper is quietly, he's come back from his injuries and he's putting together solid game after solid game. He is not shooting the ball great from range and they're bringing him off the bench but they're keeping his workload manageable. He's averaging 14 points, four assists in 22 minutes a game. Just shooting 28% on threes. That could improve. But production up and down the lineup from San Antonio, they're going to need it, especially Victor. Can't do in this game, dear. And Fox has been playing very well offensively. He's back to full power. Vesel. Devin Vesel's had some good games coming off the bench. Kelvin Johnson's had some good games. Harrison Barnes recently has been put up some big games. They've got a very deep roster and they've been showing it off and you know they're going to need it because you know the Lakers have proven that they can put up points and, and they're going to need it in this game. McMahon not sure about Phoenix's chances of pulling the road team upset, but the spurs are much, are much closer with Vegas 4 1/2 as of right now the Lakers favorite.
- [41:00]
C
Well, look, when you talk about the flaws of the Lakers, I think we, you talked about perimeter defense pretty early in that conversation. And so you know they, the spurs got three guys who can really do some damage off the dribble in de' Aaron Fox, Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper. I'm not saying I expect them to pull off the win without Victor when Minyama in la, but if they are going to do that I think it's going to be because you know, one or two or all three of those guys really gets going in terms of getting in the teeth of the defense and making things happen. And you know, I, I will also just say as a quick aside as you're going to the trade machine over the next what is a couple of months here, don't bother putting Dylan Harper's font Castle in any trades. And if that means you can't come up with things to get some huge blockbuster done for the Spurs, I would say yeah, that's right. Those guys are going to be in San Antonio I believe for a long, long time. I think they've got this generation's version of Duncan Parker, Ginobili.
- [42:13]
A
I like the young guards, let's see, let's see if they can continue to improve to get close to that level. But I do like those guys a lot. And yeah, I, I don't think it would make a lot of sense for them to rush things with Victor and these guys, you know, they should let it cook a little bit more. And they, they still do have some stuff to do like they have. They. I don't, I'm not sure I quite agree on how deep their roster is overall. I think they've got some long term holes they've got to fill, but they have done Mitch Johnson and I think has done a really nice job with the way they've sort of built this team out and the way they're playing. Like he's getting a ton out of Kelvin Johnson who's played really well. You know, they've got, they've got Kelly Olenek back. He gives them a bit of a spacing option off the bench. They've done a nice job with Julian Chimpani has been a really nice piece for them. Again, he's not a guy people immediately think of but He's a really good shooter. You know, long wing can stay in the way on defense like another guy that's a useful piece. Like they, they're filling in the roster around their big time guys the way they need to. Probably need another piece or two before they're truly where they want to be. But again, like Victor has barely played the last three weeks and they're 16 and seven on their way into this game against the Lakers with a chance to go to Vegas. And certainly I think they're definitely ahead of schedule and playing really well. And I'll also be curious to see like we saw them go this game against New Orleans. You shot 17 for 36 from three. I think that's going to be the swing thing in this game. The Lakers do not shoot a ton of threes typically that I think if the, if the spurs have a hot shooting night, I think that could be the thing that swings this one way or the other.
- [43:59]
Even though the Lakers do score, they don't necessarily score in that way.
- [44:02]
C
Well, and just to be clear, the win over the Pelicans when Derek Queen had a 30 some odd point triple double was not the spurs most impressive work.
- [44:09]
A
No, no. First half was impressive and then the third quarter was a disaster.
- [44:15]
B
McMahon, Luka Doncic is leading the NBA in usage rate.
- [44:20]
C
Well.
- [44:22]
B
On a team with Austin Reaves and LeBron James. I know LeBron's only played seven games, but it's higher than I thought it would be. But I mean, you know, just, it's.
- [44:31]
A
More Luca leading the league basically in usage rate playing with Kyrie Irving and those guys too.
- [44:37]
C
And look, LeBron hasn't played much. And then of those seven games, Luka missed what, two or three of those. So there's not those three as a trio. They haven't been in the lineup a lot together, obviously.
- [44:50]
B
Austin Reeves, I mean they're 17 and 6. It's, it's working. I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying he's. This is still Luca ball 101.
- [44:58]
C
Oh yeah, no, he's still the center of that solar system for sure. And look, he will be for the next 10 years. I don't, I don't envision that changing.
- [45:09]
B
34% of LeBron's shots so far have been threes. He's only taking three free throws a game, which is, you know, his free throws numbers have been falling in as he's gotten older for various reasons. You know, if he has a good, if his jump shot is falling, he's going to be still Pretty effective. The question is, is how effective can he be when the jump shot isn't falling? You know, he's still does so many things. Impressive, you know, mentally. You know, he had a steal at the end of the game that basically iced the game the other night in Philly, where he totally diagnosed the Sixers play before they even ran it. And he jumped the passing lane, which is just another. You know, he's done that hundreds of times in his career. I've always. I've told the story a bunch. Not this story, but, I mean, it happened many times, but it was always fascinating when LeBron was in the locker room after the game watching other games. And I've talked about how.
- [46:05]
You know, Tony Romo got a lot of, you know, a lot of attention because he would predict plays. Well, I mean, if LeBron never did color commentary, which, by the way, would be amazing. I can't see him ever doing it, but it would be amazing doing a podcast. Yeah, I know, but, like, it would be amazing if he did it in real time, because I'm just telling you, I've seen him watch games in real time, and I've seen him repeatedly predict plays the teams are going to run, especially out of timeouts. I've done this with. I recently had dinner with an advanced scout, a longtime advanced scout, and we were watching a game. We were actually watching his team play. So he had just prepared his team for this game that was playing. We were watching the game, and his team was in last second, last five second. They were defending it out of bounds play. And he goes, this team is going to run this play. And he even. He, like, told me he exactly predicted what was going to happen. And sure enough, that's exactly the play that they ran. He goes, I hope our assistant is ready for this. And they were. They got to stop and whatever. So that was really cool. That's that guy's whole job. And he had just gotten done with preparing a scouting report. Like, he had just turned it in, like the day before, the two days before. So he was, like, super ready. I've seen LeBron do this, accurately predict what teams are going to run at the end of games in real time, watching on television, in locker rooms. I've seen it numerous times. And we got to see it in a game where he basically spied what the Sixers were doing and intercepted the pass, jumping the passing lane. So LeBron's still going to make plays doing that.
- [47:45]
A
And yeah, the question is, can his body keep up? Like, the mind is going to Be there. But you know, we, again, like we talked about the other day, the game I was at, he won that game for the Lakers by standing in one shot in one spot and hitting jump shots because the Sixers didn't successfully run him off the three point line. And he got hot and in a rhythm and kept catching it in the same spot and feeling great. Which he, like you said, is going to have moments where he does that. The other games when he hasn't hit shots, it hasn't looked great because he can't at this point get into the paint. And I think that's going to be the thing that determines whether we see some market improvement or if this is just kind of what it's going to be. Because he's not going to go 12 for 17 every game. He's not. And if he's not able to go 12 for 17 every game, he's got to be able to get in the lane and get to the line and put pressure on the defenses that way to be really effective. I also think his moving is going to be the thing that can determine what the actual ceiling of the Lakers is as a team. Because at the end of the day, if you have Luka Doncic or Austin Reaves or LeBron James out there and they're your worst defender, you can put together a decent defense. I think if you have all three of them playing, especially this version of LeBron that is pretty limited physically, at least so far, you could scheme all the things you want. I'm not sure how JJ Redick is going to be able to put together a good enough defensive team, which is why the Lakers so far, I think, fifth or sixth in offense and they're 20th in defense.
- [49:06]
C
Yeah. The other thing with LeBron I think is going to be interesting to watch is how much he is able to get out in transition. He did make some plays in transition against Philly. I mean, and part of that's getting his conditioning right. Obviously he's been one of the most, you know, or one of the best conditioned athletes his entire career. So getting as close to that level as he can at his advanced age. But Luke is the best touchdown, you know, pass deliverer in the NBA. Like Luka is, you know, 50, 60, 70 foot assistance. And you know, you saw that that was the one thing that did click with Luke and LeBron right away. As LeBron said, he's a natural born wide receiver and Luke is a heck of a quarterback. You know, they've got to get LeBron back into that mode. Where he's able to get the easy buckets in transition. I, you know, I don't know if that's fair to ask a 40 year old.
- [50:01]
B
Well, we'll see if the Lakers can get back and try to get to Vegas for the second time in three years in the in the Cup.
- [50:07]
C
So they're probably going to have a tough whistle because I'm not sure if the league wants to see that.
- [50:12]
B
All right. On our last podcast we had some discussion about the NBA schedule and the some of the comments that head coaches and other players had about the difficulty of the intensity of the schedule for the first 25 or so games of the season. And the league office wanted to what?
- [50:35]
C
Oh you guys got your wrist slapped a little bit, did you?
- [50:37]
B
I will just say that the league office wanted to provide some context about how this season's schedule by the numbers is comparable to recent seasons. So this is go. This is at the start of the week there's almost been no games. There were three games on Monday, there's two games on Tuesday night. So it doesn't really make a difference.
- [50:54]
A
As of Monday morning.
- [50:56]
B
As of Monday morning the NBA through Monday morning had played 308 games. And last year by the same point they were 307. And if you wanted to go to the pre NBA cup schedule with the last time that was the case was in 2223 was 308. So basically flat dating to 2021 it was 313. But I don't that was still covet affected. So I'm gonna but certainly the last three years or certainly comparable.
- [51:30]
So yes I asked about five and sevens because there have been some teams that have felt fatigued by five and sevens. I know there's a couple of teams I believe who have had two different stretches of five and sevens and for the full season the number of five and sevens are down per team from 1.93 per team last year to 1.67 and so far the teams are averaging 0.57. So less so basically one. Every other team is basically have a head of five and 7.57 per team so far and last year it's, it's. It's flat with before the NBA cup which was 0.57 in 2022. So the league's point is that statistically there is no more games played to this point either compared to last year or compared to pre NBA cup schedule. That is the league's statistics they have provided for context.
- [52:28]
A
What I will say would you like.
- [52:30]
C
To comment sir, because you were awfully aggressive the other day.
- [52:32]
A
Yeah, I mean listen, I, I, the numbers are what they are. And I was going to say I, obviously the numbers do not reflect the, the intuition of people in the league. And I was gonna say the funny thing about this is the night before we did the pod, I was watching the Sacramento Kings smack the Heat and the Washington Wizards smack the Hawks in the second half. A second night of a back to back and the what a night that was. Well there was just there I had the quad box on, sitting here on my couch and the other searching for.
- [53:05]
B
His social media video and I had to do the wheels.
- [53:08]
A
I had the, I had Cav's corner losing to the Pat Spencer show all at the same time on the second night of a back to back back. And so I texted our guy Stass Williams and I said, man, it feels like these teams on second night of back to backs are just getting run all the time. And I was thinking there was a correlation with how fast the game's being played this year and teams being worn out. So stats, because he's a brighter guy than all of us said. It's funny, I was thinking this the other day and I looked it up myself and this year teams without rest so on a back to back have a 48 winning percentage which would be the highest since the 50 game lockout shortened season and the highest in a full season in over 40 years. Wow. So it's not always that. What you, what you think you see is what the reality is. So there you go.
- [53:56]
C
Numbers lie.
- [53:58]
B
All right, so let that context be added to the forum of discussion. All right. Meanwhile, we'll see if coaches still keep talking about it because down the line they are all talking about it.
- [54:12]
C
Well, you know what though? Like if a coach really feels like the schedule is unfair, maybe they can just do like Notre Dame football and say we're taking our ball going home.
- [54:20]
B
We don't think this is fair. We're not going to play. Well, look, at the end of the day, every team plays the same number of games in the same stretch of days from October through April. You have the same number of home games, the same number of road games. When you look at individual stretches, whether they be 10 game stretches or 20 game stretches, some are going to be more difficult than others. Every team believes that it is victimized in their schedule some way or another.
- [54:45]
A
Generally all evens out because it does all even out because it's all the same in the end anymore.
- [54:51]
C
Because you say when the schedule comes out. Well, they wanted home 41 on the.
- [54:55]
B
Road, and now I'm just. Look, a number of. There's been a. It's been a topic of conversation in the league. The league is basically saying the numbers don't lie. Humans lie. The numbers don't lie. All right, thank you very much to Jackson for putting this together. Thank you for McMahon and Bontemps bending their travel schedules to make this work. And we'll talk to you later this week. I'll be somewhere else.
- [55:17]
C
Adios, amigos.
- [55:30]
B
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- [55:38]
C
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- [55:40]
B
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- [55:49]
A
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B
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