Cavs Down Knicks + Spurs Expose Pistons? OKC’s Depth Showing Finals Repeat Chances?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: Cavs Down Knicks + Spurs Expose Pistons? OKC’s Depth Showing Finals Repeat Chances?
Date: February 25, 2026
Host(s): Brian Windhorst (B), Tim Bontemps (C), Tim MacMahon (D)
Produced by: ESPN & Omaha Productions

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the latest NBA headlines, focusing on:

• The Cavaliers’ dominant win over the Knicks and what’s going wrong in New York
• How the Spurs’ defense and Victor Wembanyama exposed the Pistons’ playoff vulnerabilities
• Oklahoma City Thunder’s impressive depth and the financial and roster crossroads looming as they eye a potential Finals repeat
• A look at Jalen Brown’s MVP case and the Celtics, Jokic and the struggling Nuggets, and Jonathan Kuminga’s strong Hawks debut.

Throughout, Windhorst and his panel interweave stats breakdowns, storytelling, sharp critiques, and a dose of NBA media inside baseball, keeping the tone analytical yet conversational.

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1. Cavaliers Dominate the Knicks: Defensive Masterclass or Knicks Meltdown?

(Segment starts ~05:12)

Key Points:

• Game Result: Cavs 109, Knicks 94. Only 94 points allowed by Cleveland, highlighting their rising defensive identity.
• Knicks’ Third Quarter Collapse:
  • Knicks scored just 11 points in Q3 (3-24 FG, 1-12 3PT, 4-8 FT).
  • "That's how you score 11 points in a quarter and how you get down by 20." (C, 06:09)
• Karl-Anthony Towns (KAT):
  • Only five shots, scored 100% from the field but was nearly invisible.
  • “I'm going to call him catsperson friendly ghost today because he was gone. Could not find him.” (D, 07:36)
• Cavs' Lineup Experimentation: Dean Wade starting, using three near seven-footers for size, now that Mobley is healthy.
• Jared Allen's Impact:
  • Strong game, sparking debate about Brooklyn’s decision to trade him in the Harden deal:
  • "If the Nets had not given Jared Allen away... I think the Nets would have won the title... when Kevin Durant's toe was about that much on the line." (C, 08:14–09:03)
• Harden, Mitchell, and Allen:
  • Harden providing playmaking but not many FTs (0 this game, avg. 4 per game w/ Cavs).
  • “James Harden will absolutely maximize a big who's willing to screen and roll hard to the rim.” (D, 10:26)
  • Donovan Mitchell struggled (5-18 FG), but got to the line (14 FTAs).
• Knicks' Troubles:
  • “Like, the Knicks stunk it up. And honestly, the Knicks stunk it up for most of the game the other night against the Rockets and got lucky...” (D, 10:26)
  • Recent trend: getting blown out, scraping by tankers.
  • Calls for featuring KAT more—a recurring theme for their offense.
• Windhorst’s Take: Losing in Cleveland isn't a disaster, but New York’s underlying issues (inconsistent offense, rotations, focus) are mounting.

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2. Spurs Defeat and Expose the Pistons: Playoff Weaknesses Laid Bare

(Segment starts ~16:48)

Key Points:

• Spurs Win Streak: Up to nine with this win; “tremendous win for the Spurs to go up there.”
• Cade Cunningham's Rough Night:
  • Shot 5-26 FG (1-15 2nd half), three shots blocked by Wemby.
  • Detroit’s offense grinds to a halt if Cade is smothered—“The entire spurs defense was loaded up on Cade Cunningham … there wasn’t a plan B.” (C, 18:18)
• Victor Wembanyama's Defensive Impact:
  • Could camp out in the paint with no threat from Detroit’s non-spacing bigs.
  • “Victor leads the league in reconsiders by a whole lot.” (D, 21:46)
  • “I’ll never forget … his coach Vincent Collet told me he was the first … to defend the rim and the corner three at the same time.” (B, 24:37)
• Detroit’s Problematic Shooting/Spacing:
  • PISTONS: 7-36 from 3; SPURS: 18-40 from 3 (huge +33 difference).
  • Duncan Robinson cold (3-11), Holland takes too many (1-6), Asar Thompson benched for lack of offense.
• Implications for Playoffs:
  • Opponents may mimic the Spurs’ blueprint—packing the paint, challenging non-shooters.
  • "They have some real questions to answer on offense." (C, 20:15)
• Defensive Praise for Spurs:
  • Stefan Castle—co-hosts tout him as a first-team All-Defense guy already.
• Physicality and Psychology:
  • Pistons tried to “punk” the Spurs, but “Spurs are not very punkable ... you're not going to intimidate Wemby.” (D, 27:07)

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3. Thunder’s Depth and Looming Crunch: The Repeat Window and Salary Questions

(Segment starts ~32:13)

Key Points:

• Short-Handed Win Over Toronto:
  • No SGA, Jalen Williams, or A.J. Mitchell, Thunder still win behind Cason Wallace’s breakout (27p, 8r, 7a).
  • "He’s made his impact primarily on the defensive end. They’ve needed him to be an on ball creator and he has answered the bell.” (D, 39:43)
• Wallace’s Emergence:
  • “He is a big-time playmaker ... I cannot overstate what a massive development that is for the Thunder.” (D, 41:56)
  • 4 of his six 20+ point games this month, lots of growth due to injuries to core creators.
• Thunder’s Upcoming Salary Cap Squeeze:
  • “Jalen Williams … next year, he's making $41.5 million. Nice. $35 million jump.” (C, 34:12)
  • Chet Holmgren also due a huge raise.
  • Discussion about team options (Dort, Hartenstein, etc.)—Thunder face the ‘second apron’ and decisions about who to extend, trade, or let walk.
  • “Teams around the league are looking, saying, what are the Thunder going to do with their roster this summer?” (C, 36:18)
• Immediate Focus:
  • Despite the contract talk, repeating is front and center. “The first order of business is defending a championship … Cason Wallace’s growth is a huge development for their chances.” (D, 39:43)
• Team Stats and Resilience:
  • Thunder continue to rack up wins without their stars—indication of elite system and depth.
  • Wallace: “assisted turnover almost at 5 to 1 … that’s pretty good.” (B, 39:43)
• What it Means for Playoff Scenarios:
  • Wallace’s comfort “could be a factor in a playoff series if someone is in foul trouble or hurt—this kind of development matters.” (B, 42:07)

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4. Celtics, Nuggets, and the MVP/Narrative Debate

(Segment starts ~43:03)

Key Points:

• Celtics Rolling:
  • Post All-Star break, 7-of-8 wins on Western road trip. Jaylen Brown leading way.
  • LeBron after Celtics-Lakers: “Gave Jalen a shoutout, thought he was being underrated.” (B, 44:00)
• Jaylen Brown—Properly Rated?:
  • Bon Temps: “Second team All-NBA … finished sixth in the last straw poll … The idea he’s being underrated is off base.” (C, 44:01–45:48)
  • Citing stats and context: “He’s on the fringe of the MVP conversation … nothing to be insulted by.” (D/C, 47:05–47:51)
• Nuggets’ Clutch Problems:
  • Denver now with a losing clutch record (14-15); net rating in clutch: 26th; struggles blamed on injuries.
  • “Jokic and Jamal Murray have long histories of being great clutch performers, and it's just not happening this year.” (B, 48:46)
  • Still, panel expects them to be “right in the thick of things if they have a healthy roster come playoff time.” (D, 48:57)

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5. Other Quick Hits and Notable Moments

• Jonathan Kuminga's Big Hawks Debut:

  • 27 points in first game for Atlanta after trade from the Warriors; opportunity opens up due to Jalen Johnson’s injury. (B, 50:48 + C, 50:48–51:46)
  • Quip from McMahon: “I dare someone in that Warriors beat crew to ask Steve Kerr what he thought of Kuminga's debut for the Hawks.” (D, 51:55)

• Spurs, Tanking, and Lottery Luck:

  • Spurs as successful tankers—won the Wemby lottery.
  • Humorous suggestion: “The league office should have to approve 10 day contracts for losing teams in the second half of the season. I'm serious about that.” (D, 29:30)

• NBA Trash Talk and Toughness:

  • Recap of Myron Gardner vs. Scottie Pippen Jr. “There’s a lot of yapping for a dude who hasn't done anything in the league yet.” (D, 28:32)

• Great Quote:

  • On Wembanyama: “He leads the league in reconsiders by a whole lot.” (D, 21:46)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Knicks’ Atrocious Third Quarter:

  • “The Knicks went 3 for 24 from the field in the third quarter. Or 1 for 12 for 3 and 4 for 8 from the line. And that right there, folks, is how you score 11 points in a quarter...” (C, 06:09)

• On Jared Allen's Impact:

  • “If the Nets had not given Jared Allen away in the James Harden trade ... I think the Nets would have won the title...” (C, 09:03)

• On KAT’s Disappearing Act:

  • “I'm going to call him catsperson friendly ghost today because he was gone. Could not find him.” (D, 08:00)

• On Wemby’s Defense:

  • “Victor leads the league in reconsiders by a whole lot.” (D, 21:46)
  • “He was the first player ... who could defend the rim and the corner three at the same time.” (B, 24:49)

• On Cason Wallace’s Emergence:

  • “...he’s made his impact primarily on the defensive end. They've needed him to be an on ball creator and he has answered the bell.” (D, 39:43)

• On Celtics MVP Debate:

  • “He’s a second team all NBA player ... The idea that he’s being underrated or not giving enough respect ... is off base.” (C, 44:01–45:09)

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Takeaways

• The Knicks’ offensive struggles have reached critical mass, with a lack of identity and questionable stars utilization (KAT invisible, Brunson struggling).
• The Cavaliers’ evolution, powered by Harden’s facilitating and Allen’s resurgence, positions them for a strong finish.
• The Spurs, built around Wembanyama and Castle, are laying out a defensive blueprint that could haunt the Pistons and similar teams in the playoffs.
• The Thunder’s insane depth and player development (Wallace!) give them serious repeat potential, but their salary cap situation will force tough summer decisions.
• Jaylen Brown is getting his respect, even if the MVP trophy is out of reach—while the Celtics continue to roll.
• Injuries and clutch struggles cloud the Nuggets’ chances but don’t count them out.
• The episode concludes with wit, stats, and a reminder that NBA narratives are never as simple as they seem.

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Highly Recommended Segments (Timestamps):

• [06:09] – Knicks’ disastrous third quarter and Cavs defense
• [08:14–09:03] – “What-if” with the Nets, Jared Allen, and the Harden trade
• [18:18–21:46] – Spurs defense, Wemby’s impact, and Pistons’ playoff weakness
• [24:37–25:04] – Coaching story on Wembanyama's defensive uniqueness
• [32:13–42:07] – Thunder’s depth, contract squeeze, Cason Wallace’s leap
• [44:01–47:51] – Jaylen Brown’s MVP candidacy, context, and critique
• [48:46–48:57] – Nuggets’ clutch woes and playoff outlook

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Endnote:

The Hoop Collective delivers its trademark blend of banter, deep stat dives, and strategic storytelling, giving listeners key context for each developing NBA storyline without straying far from the court (or the locker-room). Suitable for the hardcore follower and casual hoops fan alike.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday evening. Joining me from New York City, which is under ungodly amounts of snow, Tim Bontemps.

[C]

Hello, everybody. This is actually. The snow's all pretty much melted over here at Barclays Center. It's all melted town. Yeah. The streets are all clear, the sidewalks are all clear. It's all, it's all back to normal.

[B]

Did you take up arms like your mayor requested and shut. Take up a shovel and help clear the path?

[C]

I did not. I sat in my apartment with the cinder block who's got his first cold, and we looked outside at the, at the snow and we, we watched it and we didn't, we didn't do anything else.

[B]

That's the way to go.

[C]

And in the magic of New York City, it was all gone by the time I needed to go outside.

[B]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where they get a half inch of snow, it's big time problem I've been there when it happens is Bam McMahon.

[D]

Howdy, partners. I'm just glad they got that Mavs at Nets game in tonight. Don't know what we'd have done without that kind of entertainment. The Mavs has been, it's been a rough road trip, travel delays, and they won two straight games.

[C]

All sorts of reunions.

[B]

Today.

[C]

Kyrie Irving was in the building. He had all sorts of fans trying to get autographs from him after the game. Jason Kidd back here at Barclays center where he once intentionally spilled a Coke on the floor. You know, all kinds of.

[B]

I think it was water. I think it was water.

[D]

It was a Diet Coke.

[B]

Was it really the game?

[C]

It was a Coke, trust me.

[B]

So in case our viewers and listeners haven't told the story, you can tell that story. Cause it's a good one.

[C]

I'll tell the story very fast. I don't remember the specific context of the situation, but he needed a timeout.

[B]

That's the context.

[C]

Yes, I meant the rest of the situation. But the Nets didn't have a timeout. Jason wanted to try to stop the game, and so he had Tyshawn Taylor, who went to Kansas. I was a young guard, I think, in his second year at the time, bumped into him and spilled a Coke all over the.

[B]

He pulled him. He pulled him into him.

[C]

That's what I mean.

[D]

Oh. He said, hit me.

[C]

Hit me.

[B]

Yeah, he said, hit me.

[C]

He intentionally caused a collision to spill his Coke on the ground and force a stoppage in play and get a

[B]

chance to draw a timeout.

[D]

I can report that J. Kidd's acting skills have drastically improved in the many years since then. He convinced millions of people that he was just absolutely shocked that Luka Doncic got traded in the middle of the night.

[C]

That was only a couple weeks before Lawrence Frank, now running the Clippers, was told to go file individual daily reports, which is one of the most memorable press conferences I've ever attended. One of many in the same room here at Barclays center, including one with Brian Windhurst. Where.

[B]

Oh, you're at Barclays. I didn't even say that you were at Barclays. I mean, I knew you were there tonight.

[C]

Same room where Jason Kidd will sat down and announced that Lawrence Frank was off to file individual daily reports on what was happening with the team as a few weeks later, or I should say a year before, was when Mikhail Prokroft, the owner of the team at the time, came back from Hella Skiing and Whistler and declared how he decided to fire Avery Johnson. So many memorable moments here at Barclays. Yes.

[B]

And I promise we'll move on from memory lane right after this, but I was at that press conference and yeah. When he was asked why he waited a couple of days to he. They. The question was, when did you decide to fire Avery? He said, oh, last week. And he. And then the follow up was, well, then why did you not fire him until today? And he goes, oh, well, the snow was. And he pointed to his shoulder. He says the snow was.

[C]

He's about 6, 8. He was about 6, 8 at the. So it was high snow. Good snowpack up in Whistler.

[B]

Yeah, I respected the answer, even though I'm sure our former colleague Avery did not. All right, so let's just come clean here. I'm in Los Angeles. I went to the pregame for Lakers and Magic tonight.

[D]

Any snow there?

[C]

Window's been hobnobbing, folks. And he didn't watch Cavs corner dominate the Knicks.

[B]

I watched the first quarter or most of the first quarter of the Cavs

[C]

part of the first quarter.

[B]

I watched a section of the first quarter and then.

[C]

And then he hobnobbed as window was known to do hobnob with the stars.

[B]

It's known as reporting Bontems I talked

[D]

to might want to try it sometime,

[B]

buddy executives I talked to players I met.

[C]

Think of this window look we've got going right now. It's like all black get up, you know, It's a good look.

[D]

It is mysterious.

[C]

It is mysterious. It's like it's kind of got dark lighting there, you know.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm not a fashion plate, but, you know. So anyway, here's, here's the long and short of it. The Cavs won 109.

[D]

94 and

[B]

obviously 94 points. Pretty good as far as defense. I don't know what happened. So just going to be honest, just come.

[C]

I was at Nets Mavs and I was watching Dick's Cavs because nobody here was watching Nets Mavs. So I can we can. I can talk about happen. At least I believe McMahon can as well.

[D]

It was on the third TV for me. Cass Nicks was on the primary. And I mean, honestly, if you want to sum it up, the Cavs played pretty well. The Knicks were atrocious. The Knicks could not buy a bucket. What were they from three point range? I mean, it was.

[C]

I mean, this is the story of the game. The third quarter of the game, the Knicks were outscored 23 to 11.

[D]

Eleven points in the quarter.

[C]

And by the way, the Cavs did not exactly light the world on fire in the third quarter. Again, they only had 23 points and, you know, shot 36% from the field. Not exactly ideal. The Knicks went 3 for 24 from the field in the third quarter. Or 1 for 12 for 3 and 4 for 8 from the line. And that right there, folks, is how you score 11 points in a quarter and how you get down by 20 going into the fourth and go on to lose another game to a top team in the East.

[D]

Hey, I got some good news. I got some good news for the Knicks. Hold on, let me pump some sunshine. Cat shot a hundred percent from the floor.

[B]

Well, that's what I was going to ask. Okay, just, just, just. So you're describing a quarter from hell offensively, the Cavs, I will say, you know, they started, you know, they've been experimenting. They did this earlier this season, but now that they're fully healthy with Evan Mobley back, Kenny Atkinson is trying to work with this big lineup where he's starting Dean Wade. So they start three guys, six, 10 or so. I don't know if Evan Mobley is six'10 or six'11, but they start basically three big guys and trying to use size to their advantage and I assume they started the second half with that. But anyway, Karl Town's just five shots. So you would think a guy who is such an offensive powerhouse when you need offense that that would have been something you would go to.

[D]

There you are being negative. I led with the 100% from the floor. You got right to the five shots. Yeah, probably not great when you're all star big man who his primary job is to put the ball in the hoop. Has as many turnovers as he does field goal attempts. You know, I'm going to call him catsperson friendly ghost today because he was gone. Could not find him.

[C]

How long was he thinking about that line? Since the middle of the game. Since the middle of the game.

[D]

These things come to me.

[C]

I'll sure they do.

[D]

By the way, Jared Allen, after kind of a no show performance in okc, he was, he was back on it tonight.

[C]

Hey, you know what? I was thinking about watching this game. No bs I was watching the game and Jared Allen was again getting buckets left and right. They showed a graphic during the game that with James Harden, he's scoring like 20 points a game or 19 points a game and shooting something like 75%. His numbers are like six or seven points lower without him. And because I'm sitting here at Barclays, what I was thinking about was if the Nets had not given Jared Allen away in the James Harden trade, trading him for the 30th pick in the draft in that trade, the last pick of the first round, and I just insisted they keep him in the trade. I think the Nets would have won the title when they played Chris Middleton who was here playing for the Mavs and the Milwaukee Bucks in the second round and lost in seven games here at Barclays center when Kevin Durant's toe was about that much on the line at the end of the fourth quarter.

[B]

But they traded him because they didn't want to pay him.

[C]

Well, they traded him because they allegedly needed to get another first round pick in the deal. And so they used Jared Allen to get one. I'm just saying.

[B]

Right, but that was part of it. Right? They didn't, they had Harden, Kawhi, I mean Harden, Kevin Durant and, and Kyrie Irving. They didn't. They couldn't afford another hundred million dollar player.

[C]

I mean, I, I think they could have afforded to have Jared Allen on the. They could have afforded to have Jared out on the team. They're owned by A guy who's worth plenty of money. They chose to trade him.

[D]

Well, there was also the whole, you know, before that, when what helped shorten Gary Kenny Atkinson's run, there was. There was the whole, we gotta play DeAndre Jordan over Jared Allen, despite the fact that DeAndre was not exactly in his prime. And Jared Allen was an ascending quality starting big at the time. So that was great. Now, to DeAndre's credit, he's in the Pelicans starting lineup. Derrick Queen is not right now. That's a whole nother story. But. But that was part of the whole Jared Allen story in Brooklyn.

[C]

Well, that is what I was thinking watching this game. I was going, man, what could have been for the Nets if they had kept Jared Allen and not had him as a throw in. In that trade and had him on that team that year when they got James Harden, I think they win that series and they probably win the title if they have Jared Allen on the team that year.

[D]

Jared Allen, you know, with the exception of a dud and okc has been phenomenal. So since James Harden's got there and, you know, credit to Jared Allen. But that's also not a coincidence because we've said many times, James Harden will absolutely maximize a big who's willing to screen and roll hard to the rim. And so they've got that going for him. You know, Donovan's still the franchise. Evan Mobley's kind of getting his feet under him. But this was. To me, this game wasn't about the Cavs. This game was about just a. Like, the Knicks stunk it up. And honestly, the Knicks stunk it up for most of the game the other night against the Rockets and got lucky that the Rockets were just at their worst in crunch time. But let the Rockets will blow a lead. They can't close games. The Knicks took advantage, but the Knicks are not playing well.

[B]

This Eastern Conference is just really hard to read. It's just really hard to read because, uh, you're absolutely right that the Knicks, you would say, have had kind of a shaky seven days, but they had a win over the Rockets. Granted, it was aided by the Rockets bad offense. And then they.

[C]

They were also getting blown out for large stretches of that game too.

[B]

But they won the game. They did win the game.

[C]

They did win.

[D]

There's been a whole lot of Knicks getting blown out lately, though. They came back to win that one. They got humiliated by the Pistons. They got their butts whooped tonight.

[B]

Right? Towns played really well in both games over the weekend. They went to Chicago, Chicago's, you know,

[C]

I mean, they're one of many tankers. They're one of many tankers right now.

[D]

They had to squeak it out against the Bulls, which is as bad as getting blown out.

[B]

Whatever. Towns played well in that game. Towns had two good games over the weekend. There was a relatively significant amount of, you know, is Towns turning the corner and then he has a game where he only gets five shots, which, you know, I didn't watch it, so I don't know if it's much on him or on the offense, but.

[D]

Well, it get. It gets back to the like all season long, Cats not being featured in the offense has been a storyline there.

[B]

Well, and didn't Mike Brown say the other day, didn't he Bon Temps, didn't he say that, that there was more of an emphasis like he was, he was trying to.

[C]

I mean, look, this, this was a, this was like a couple point. This was a close game at halftime and The Knicks went 1 for 12 from 3 in the third quarter. Like, you know, I, they had a horrendous third quarter or you know, it was a five point game at halftime. Whatever. Like they were right there in the first half. They had a horrific third quarter and missed a ton of shots. Like this game, losing this game on the road to Cleveland, to me is not like the loss they had to the Pistons without Jalen Duran and Isaiah Stewart the other day at the Garden when they had. Or they'd already lost to them twice in bad fashion like that. That was a bad loss. This was just. They had a bad core and they lost today.

[D]

But in a game where the other four starters combined to go 18 of 56 from the floor, I would like Katt to get more than five shots. You know, he needs to be more aggressive. They need to find ways to get him shots. You know, Brunson had a big time dud tonight. They're not going to win a whole lot of games and Brunson goes 6 and 19. But I don't know. The Knicks are a frustrating team.

[B]

All right, well, a couple of notes on the Cavs. James Harden generally has been doing really well there, but he's not getting free throws. McMahon. I think he's averaging four free throws a game with the Cavs. He had no free throws tonight, but that said, he did have a number of assists. Donovan Mitchell had two 30 point games in the Garden and the Cavs lost both those games earlier this season with not as much extra help. Now that he's got a fully built out team he goes 5 of 18 tonight, does get 7 times to 14 free throws, 7 fouls.

[D]

Yeah, I was going to say a game after he didn't hesitate to to agree to a leading question about whether OKC hacks a lot and gets away with it.

[B]

Yes, well, the Cavs were one of a number of teams that, you know, over the last few years has said that, you know, Oklahoma City, you know, is very aggressive and fouls a lot. But you know, you know, you know that going into the game. So it's, you know. Also Jaylon Tyson, who has lost some minutes recently as the Cavs got fully healthy and made these trades. I think it was something that the Cavs were trying to do was to get him going again. He obviously has been one of the big stories for them. He got 27 minutes tonight. He had 12 points and eight rebounds, a steal on a block and the eight rebounds especially important because the Cavs didn't have great rebounding in Oklahoma City the other day. So yeah, I can't offer anything more. So I'll watch it here in a little bit and be ready for television tomorrow.

[C]

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[B]

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[F]

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[B]

So Monday Night Madness, spurs and Pistons. I feel like going forward, we're not going to see these guys playing on Mondays. Although I guess that's a national TV game now.

[D]

It's national tv.

[C]

We'll see them every day, man.

[D]

There'll be a national TV matchup for a while, that's for sure.

[B]

So this was a tremendous win for the spurs to go up there to win their ninth consecutive game to go up to Detroit and win. Not as good of a showing for Kate Cunningham, who had probably his worst game of the year, 5of23 shooting overall, 1of15 in the second half of this game. And I'm very glad that they will play again. I think they play again at the end of next week in San Antonio because I want to see the game plan that changes that the, that these Pistons will make. Because you know what this game really illustrated is how a team may play the Pistons in a playoff series. And I want to get an idea of how J.B. bickerstaff and the Pistons would respond to this because not everybody's going to have Victor Wembanyama.

[C]

I was going to say that's kind of a key. That's kind of a key thing.

[B]

Yeah, but the key is, but the key is Wembanyama didn't have to leave the paint.

[C]

Well, yeah, this, this was an interesting box score on both sides. The Pistons go 7 for 36 from 3 and the spurs go 18 for 40. Right. So 33 points plus which the spurs

[B]

came in 23 in the league in 3 point percentage. Like that is a really good game for them.

[C]

Right. Both teams are typically not huge three point shooting teams. That's a huge advantage. Plus 33 spurs actually were 39% on twos in this game from shooting wise, which is interesting. But if you look at this overall in the big picture, the story of the game is to go back to the conversation we had for Monday's pod about the pates, about the Pistons. This game highlighted all of the concerns that a Pistons fan or someone who studied that team closely would have about them in the playoffs. Like Cade's going to have better games than this. He's, he's a terrific player. He had a bad shooting game. That's fine. But part of it I listen, he had a bad game. I'm just saying part of the reason he had a bad game is the entire spurs defense was loaded up on Kate Cunningham, in part because as you said, Brian Jalen Duran, while a fantastic player, is not space in the floor. So Victor Emanyama just hung out in the paint. And if they're playing some other team with another center, they could just hang out in the paint and clog up the lane and clog up any ability for Cade to really get to the basket. And that made life very difficult for him. And there wasn't a plan B for the Pistons to go to. I mean, Asar Thompson, who obviously is a very interesting young player, he pretty much disappeared from the game offensively. Like there just. There isn't a lot going on there for him.

[D]

He basically got benched in the second half.

[C]

Right. Well, because they can't score and he's a zero threat to do much with the ball. So you know that that is going to be something to watch, particularly for a guy who's going to be up for an extension this summer. Like that's an interesting thing to watch. They don't have another guy who you really are concerned about putting the ball on the floor and making plays on the perimeter. And again, like they have some three point shooting on this team. But you know, Duncan Robinson went 3 for 11, Cade went 2 for 9, Rod Holland went 1 for 6. He probably shouldn't be taking six threes anyway.

[B]

He got the minutes for over a Sar Thompson.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And some of those threes were invitation threes for sure.

[C]

Yeah. This is what we're. I was talking about the other day. Detroit's had a fabulous season. I'm not saying they can't make it through the east playoffs, but they have some real questions to answer on offense. And if you are either a Pistons fan or anybody who has any skepticism about Detroit, you watch this game and you're watching it going. These are all the reasons to be concerned about this team's ability to make a deep run this season.

[D]

I agree with that. And also there's not another guy who can do what Victor Minyama does. Cade Cunningham.

[B]

Not many can do what Stefan Castle does either, though I will say.

[D]

Yeah, that's the. You gotta, you gotta deal with defuncast on the perimeter playing, you know, in a defense loaded up on you and then Wimby's waiting for you in the paint and they, you know, Cunningham was five of 26. You're actually friendly to him, Wendy. Five of 26. Three of his shots were blocked by Wimby. Half of his six blocks were on Cade Cunningham. And then he just, he affects the shots guys attempt. Like Cate There are many times where even if it's Jared Allen or Mitchell Robinson or like a mortal, very good defense, Big Cade's attacking and trying to finish the rim. And like, it's. You can try against Wimby, but good luck to you.

[C]

They showed a smash cut of shots that people were just flinging up around the rim with Victor there during the game. And it was hilarious. I mean, it was like, guys, like, we're seeing triple because this guy, this pterodactyl at the rim was 7, 6. And they just were like, where do I go with the ball?

[D]

And how many times do guys dribble in there? And I say, Victor leads the league and reconsiders by a whole lot. Guys dribble in there and like, let's. And so you end up taking like a tough 12 footer or like a, you know, like a long runner or like a tough fadeaway instead of trying to finish at the rim because he's that dominant. And the way. The way to get. You got to deal with Wimby on that end of the floors, you got to try to get him out of the paint, and the Pistons don't have the personnel to do that. Maybe beef stew. If he's not.

[C]

He's worried about beef stew shooting either. I mean, he can plan himself. If they're playing the Pistons, he can just plant himself in the paint and say, come get me. And there's not a lot Detroit can do about that. And look like if they're playing the Knicks with Mitchell Robinson, he is not. He is obviously not Victor, but he's. He is big and he is very good.

[B]

They outscored him by 84 points. Oh, you talk about the Pistons. Sorry.

[C]

Sorry. Yeah, right. And if. If they're playing the Cavs with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, like, those are two really good defensive bigs that they could do the same thing with. Like, when teams get into playoff series with them, the adjustments are going to be a lot more severe. They're like you said, McMahon, they're going to be giving a sar Thompson and Ron Holland some of these guys shots. And, you know, this is all part of the learning process. I think part of the reason Detroit didn't load up at the trade deadline was they wanted to get a real look at what this team could do. And that, you know, we're going to find out over the next couple months.

[D]

Well, and this was also. This was also why I had Wimby above Cade on the straw pole. And honestly, Wimby did not have a Good offensive game. They were successful in kind of bullying him and pushing him around. He's just so dominant defensively that despite

[B]

it, that was a top 5% offensive game for the spurs for this year. So as you say, a couple of things. One, I watched all, I thought it was 23, but I watched all of Cade's 26 shots several times over. And one thing that right out of the gate, not that I am ever going to pretend like I have any idea what I'm doing when it comes to coaching, but one of the things I will tell you right out of the gate is when you set, if you're going to have a screen on Stefan Castle, you better actually set the screen. You know, so many in the end and this is common in the NBA there's so many slip screens and so many, you sort of just sort of get in the way because you know you can create space without actually making contact. A lot of times, nah, doesn't work with Castle because there was repeatedly times where they would run stagger screens. This was a big part of their offense. And you can tell as the game went along and a single screen wasn't getting Castle off of Cunningham, they started running more stagger screens to run him around two screens. There was multiple times when Cade had two screens set for him and Castle got around them both and a bunch of times they were half hearted screens. So right out of the gate I'm going to tell you that the Pistons next week are going to actually have to get physically in front of Castle and get him off of Cade. That's, that's number one. The second thing is I'll never forget when I first was spending time with Victor in France, his coach Vincent Colet told me that he was the first coach, the first player he'd ever seen who could defend the rim and the corner three at the same time.

[D]

It's amazing.

[B]

Which is a last which I was going to say like so. So while you do want to have a big that can stretch Victor out and force him to at least think about coming to the corner, even that is not a guarantee.

[C]

No, there are no guarantees, but they're

[B]

going to have to do a better job. And whether it's the spurs or somebody else, when they get, when they have a really physical defensive team, they have got to do a better job of getting Cade open. You got to screen, you just have to screen better.

[C]

And we should say too, like I don't know what you guys are thinking for end of season awards but the spurs are going to have two first team all defense guys for me assuming Victor's eligible games wise, because I vote Stefan Castle, first team like he is. He is one of the two best guard defenders in the league for sure. I mean all the guys. Look at every guy that he's guarded like he is. He is an unbelievable on ball defender at this even only in his second year.

[B]

Let me take it off ramp here. I have a correction.

[C]

We never do that.

[B]

I have a correction. I need to issue a correction. I made a throwaway line the other day on the podcast about how Luka Doncic likes pieces.

[D]

Leave those lines to me and I will.

[B]

Especially when it comes to Luca. I have been reliably informed that Luke does not like pie. So I want to apologize for implying that Luca likes pie. So I was just trying to be funny. I should know better than that. I apologize to Luca.

[C]

Just read the wonder boy. It's right there over Tim's shoulder and you'll find out all you need to know about Luca. Right there. That's right.

[D]

I believe he likes beer.

[B]

I didn't say anything about.

[D]

I do.

[B]

Can't confirm, but yes. Stefan Castle's numbers against the elite scorers in the league are remarkable.

[C]

You need to see, man. Well, I mean, he's just.

[B]

You just can't get him. You can't get detached from him. He stays attached like nobody else and it frustrates guys.

[D]

And you saw that early in the game when he's up in Cade stuff. Cade's off the ball and Cade had enough of it and he just like it. It looked like a tackled him. Yeah, it looked like a right tackle trying to run block and just ran him over and then kind of tried to stand over him. Like, listen, the Pistons punk a lot of teams. The spurs are not very punkable.

[C]

Well, they tried. They tried in that game.

[D]

Yeah, Kellen Johnson comes right over and says, you know, hey, get off my guy. Then Jalen Duran's doing the finger wagon and all, you know. But like the spurs, you're not going to punk them. You might push Wimby around a little bit, but you're not going to intimidate him.

[C]

No, definitely not going to intimidate him for sure.

[B]

I was wondering if we might see like the WWE and Beef Stew come running down the tunnel.

[D]

We don't need that.

[B]

Which, by the way, I will say the other night, I believe was in Memphis, an underrated action between Myron Gardner and Scottie Pippen Jr did you guys see this?

[D]

They both got fined for this 35 grand and. And Myron Gardner took a blatant cheap shot after Scottie Pippen Jr. Hit a three. Scottie Pippen Jr. Ran down to the other end and got up on him and let him know we. We ain't doing all that.

[B]

Yeah, so he hit. He hit Pippin from behind and Pippen didn't see him coming. It was a blind shot.

[C]

It was very reminiscent actually of the mark. I believe it was Mark Heathmore to call Jokic deal.

[B]

I don't know about that. That was a devastating blow that. That knocked.

[C]

Well, it was.

[B]

I mean, he.

[C]

He came up behind the guy and hit him in the back. I mean, it was the same play.

[B]

Well, here's what I like.

[C]

It didn't lead to an injury, but I like that.

[B]

Pippen. Pippen just hunted him. He just. He just hunted him. Ran him all the way down there,

[D]

pointed to him, said, I'm coming for

[C]

you, right at him.

[B]

I know. I kind of respected him.

[D]

Listen, Myron Gardner, if you've heard of him, it's because he runs his mouth a lot. I love trash talkers, but I know you do. Like, you gotta be able to play a little bit before you're gonna be doing like, he's the one who Clay got into it with. And you're like, you, Myron Gardner, you're on a two way. You can't talk trash to a Hall of Famer. You can't. He got into it, I think with. It might have been Draymond. A lot of people do that, but like the guy. There's a lot of yapping for a dude who hadn't done anything in the league yet.

[B]

I liked it. It was probably the highlight of Memphis's week, which, by the way, of all the tankers that are tanking out there right now. Elite work being done by the Grizzlies.

[D]

Listen, elite work.

[B]

I don't want to talk about tanking. I'm just. I just want to point it out every.

[C]

Every day. I just want my idea implemented faster.

[B]

I don't want to talk about tanking.

[D]

I have a suggestion.

[B]

My own fault. I'm sorry for bringing it up.

[D]

The league office should have to approve 10 day contracts for losing teams in the second half of the season. I'm serious about that.

[C]

How about you just institute the wins matter rule and then everything is fixed.

[B]

I don't want to talk about that. We'll talk about that later on.

[C]

Just.

[B]

There's some. In a. In a.

[D]

In a crazy field off a really good tank. The San Antonio spurs, baby. Well, that's and they did it. But they did it by personnel moves. They did it by trades.

[B]

Here's the thing.

[D]

Off big time.

[B]

Here's the thing. For a tank to work, you got to get lottery luck. Which they did.

[C]

Got lucky three years in a row. Especially the first time.

[D]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[G]

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[B]

Speaking of successful tankers, the Thunder one. I'm just kidding. No, you're not just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[D]

What were Chet's numbers tonight?

[B]

Chet had seven points tonight.

[D]

But he's, you know, all.

[C]

All.

[D]

All Star.

[B]

No, I, you know. So the the the the Raptors hosted the Thunder tonight. Thunder did get Alex Russo back, but obviously no shakers of Alexander didn't get to go home. Well, he was probably got to go home, but he didn't get to play in front of his home fans. No Jalen Williams, no A.J. mitchell. I will say. How about Isaiah Joe, who is.

[D]

That's. If we're going to. How about. We got to go.

[B]

We will talk about. We'll talk about Case and Wallace, but

[C]

Ryan likes to bring up Isaiah Joe every podcast. We'll let him bring him on. I agree. Isaiah Joe is a good player, to

[D]

be clear, but he's a nice ninth man. Case of Wallace, he's a like a

[B]

fourth man right now.

[D]

True.

[B]

But Casen Wallace, this gentleman is going to get paid. The Thunder are paying a lot of guys now, and the money is all coming on the books soon. And you can block off some cash for number 22, because Kayson Wallace is showing his remarkable value to this team, and he had a big. You don't think he's going to get paid?

[C]

Well, no, I, I. The Thunder have a lot of decisions to make this summer, and one of the decisions is, are they going to be paying Case and Wallace because they do not have unlimited dollars to spend on their team. And they've got three max players who are all going to be on the books next year. And they've got to decide what to do with Isaiah Hartenstein was a team option for next year. They got to decide what to do with Lou Dort, who has a team option for next year. They got to decide what to do with Kayson Wallace, who's going to be up for an extension this summer.

[B]

Let me tell you some of their salary situations. So this year, J Dub, Jalen Williams is making less than $15 million, I

[C]

believe so next year, Jalen Williams.

[B]

I want to talk about this year. I know I talk about next year.

[C]

You're not. I'm going to read them to you. Jalen Williams, this year, it's six and a half million. Next year, he's making 41 and a half million. Nice. $35 million jump.

[B]

So let's just do a little math. That's 35 million.

[C]

All right, Chad Holmgren is making, to make the math easy, 13.5 million. Next year, he's making 41.5 million. That's a $28 million jump.

[B]

All right, 28 million. Shay. It's not big, but he gets a 60 million.

[C]

Couple million.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

He goes, if she kicks in after that.

[B]

Right? Okay.

[D]

So here's the thing, though. They've not paid the tax under the cba. Next year will be the first year they're a tax team. The year after that, they're getting an arena that was gifted to them by the city. Essentially, they paid $50 million.

[C]

That's fine. That's fine. But right now, hold on. Right now.

[D]

And they're the defending champions and they're the favorites right now. So I don't want to put a lot of energy into. Oh my gosh, the Thunder getting broken up. Let's see if they can defend their championship.

[C]

First, first of all, I didn't say they're going to get broken up. Second of all, right now for next year's team, if they opt in Kenridge Williams and they opt in Lou Dort and they opt in Isaiah Hardenstein and they have the 15 guys on the roster, which by the way, does not include their first round picks that they have, which they have multiple. They could have multiple lottery picks, depending on how things go. They currently have a payroll of $250 million. The tax line is $201 million. They would be more into the second apron than there is the difference between the tax and the second apron. So I'm not saying that the Thunder are going to get broken up. I'm not saying they can't afford to keep most of these guys. Maybe they'll have all of them on the team next year. But I can promise you that teams around the league are looking at the Thunder and saying, what are the Thunder going to do with their roster this summer? Because they have a lot of awesome players and they're going to have decisions to make on who to keep and what to do with their team.

[B]

That's all $65 million in new salaries, which, by the way, they got a chance to win the championship this year. We obviously haven't had a repeat champion in.

[C]

Since 2018. Eight years.

[B]

What was the last time we had two years in a row where the champion wasn't in the tax? That. That's something I'm going to research.

[D]

Probably before the tax started.

[C]

I think it was. I think it was. Yeah, yeah. Cause the warriors didn't win 16, I think. I don't think. I think they were in the tax in 18, but they kept not being in the tax while having all those guys, which is great. Deal.

[B]

All right. Anyway, so the real thing is Isaiah Hartenstein has a team option for next year. Lou Dort has a team option for next year. Alex Crusoe is on a deal that pays him $20 million a year for the next three years. And the question. And then Kacen Wallace has one year left at 7.5 million and then he's a free agent. So the question is, can they. Because the thing about it is they can just keep Hartenstein and Dort and just leave them there. But you know, then you risk losing them in free agency. And so the question is, do you try to do extensions with them? Is there a number that you can get with those guys for extensions? Because ideally, which you would, you would not want them. So that's just the thing. Like it's not a four alarm fire. There are three all star players are under contract for a long period of time. They have a whole bunch of draft picks in to replace. But that's the thing. Having said all that, Kayson Wallace at some point by somebody is going to

[C]

get paid and he's probably made himself

[D]

some money this month, no doubt.

[B]

Yes, he had 27 points, eight rebounds, seven assists and he leads the league in steals per game.

[D]

He only had one steal tonight, so he has not. And by the way, that matches his career high with 27 points. Matches his career high from February 1st. He now has six 20 plus point games in his career. Four of them are this month. And if you look at the his assist numbers, you know he's got like five of his top nine or five of his top ten assist performances this month. Now there's a very clear reason, right? Shea's been out, Dub's been out. You don't have your mvp, you don't have your all NBA secondary playmaker. You don't have a guy in AJ Mitchell who's emerged as one of the best sixth men in the league this year. Who's your third best creator? They've needed Case and Wallace. Who's he? You know he, he's made his impact primarily on the defensive end. They've needed him to be an on ball creator and he has answered the bell. And this, this game they were up, I don't 20ish or so. Toronto came all the way back, tied it up with just over four minutes left, three straight possessions. Case and Wallace had two drives for nice finishes at the rim and, and then a steal. Push it and transition. Kick it to Isaiah Joe for a three. Boom. Just like that, a 70 run. And I listen, I understand focusing on what's to come for the Thunder this summer and looking at the financial forecast in the future. But the first order of business is defending a championship in Case and Walsh's growth this month, him taking advantage of the opportunity that came from injury misfortune. This is a huge development for the Thunder's chances of repeating this year, I

[B]

will just say one of the things that the Thunder are doing. So they played. By the way Jackson says this month he's averaging 4.7 assists and 1.3 turnovers. So basically he's almost. Almost at 5 to 1 assisted turnover. That's pretty good. Thunder are in a little stretch here. They played Cleveland at home on Sunday. Win. Play in Toronto again without three of their best players in Toronto on Tuesday win. Oddly The Raptors are a.500 team at home and like one of the best teams on the road. I gotta have to look more into that. But that is the case.

[D]

Something to do with the Canadian currency rate probably.

[B]

But I will say that that's a good win. They go play in Detroit on ESPN on Wednesday on second night of a back to back. Detroit's gonna be looking for vengeance coming off that performance against. Okay. Or against San Antonio. But still that's when then I think they go home and play the Nuggets. So interesting test for this for this group of guys.

[D]

According to the timeline that the Thunder announced last week, Shays probably going to be reevaluated. Not that he's not evaluated every day, but the official reevaluation is probably before that Nuggets game. So both for Shay and A.J. mitchell, who sounds like A.J. mitchell has pretty much recovered from the abdominal strain and then sprained his ankle working out over the break and they

[B]

said Jalen Williams would be reevaluated in two weeks. So there were.

[D]

Yeah. So another week to go for him anyways. At least with Shea and A.J. mitchell, sounds like those guys could be back pretty soon. But again man, like the Thunder's depth to be able to beat the Cavs and then the Raptors missing your top two players and three of your top six or so, that's pretty impressive. And to have a 22 year old blossoming like this who's already an elite defender like you. I. You mentioned Stefan Castle's an elite on ball defender. Case Wallace is at least as good.

[B]

He's. He's at least as good and he is a big time playmaker.

[D]

Yeah, steals per game just gets his hands on everybody. But to have him blossoming like this on the offensive end, I cannot overstate what a massive development that is for the Thunder.

[B]

This is, you know, and that's the thing. Like who knows, you get into a playoff series, maybe he is a non factor in two or three games but then all of a sudden it's you know, two, two or it's three, two. And you know, you're trying to close a team out and then, you know, maybe somebody gets in foul trouble, maybe somebody turns their ankle and then up here comes this guy and he can go right back to this. You know, this is the kind of stuff, you know, you may say, well, it's just a February game. It's just, it's some Tuesday in Toronto. Oh yeah, well, this kind of stuff can sometimes matter when you're trying to build out a title.

[D]

Like once you get the primary guys back, it's not even going to be about the numbers, but it's going to be about his comfort with the ball in his hands. Like just to have that one more guy who, hey, if he gets the ball and it's a late shot clock, you know, he can put it on the floor and make a play like, you know, it might be a critical late shot clock bucket here or there in the playoffs that can make the difference for sure.

[B]

All right, well, ESPN Wednesday night. So the other game on ESPN on Wednesday night is Celtics at Nuggets. Celtics are doing very well in their post all star west coast trip. They've won seven out of eight overall. Jaylen Brown continues to put up strong games and bon temps. I've shouted out your poll a couple of times this week from last week because especially after this weekend when the Celtics just crushed the Lakers, I think held him to eight or nine points after the game. LeBron gave Jalen a shout out and thought he was being underrated. And you know, for Jalen who's, you know, I think been fighting for, you know, recognition throughout the season, I think he liked hearing that from a guy who he's played quite a few times against in the playoffs. Is it, am I being controversial if I say that I think Jalen Brown is being properly rated?

[D]

No, not at all.

[C]

He's a second team all NBA player who finished sixth in the last draw poll, got three third place votes in the last draw poll which has been a total votes as he'd had in the entire history of the straw poll before this season. And he finished behind Luka Dacic, who's better than him. Kate Cunningham, who's better than him. Victor Wenyama, who's better than him. Nicola Yoko, who's better than him and Chus Alexander, the reigning mvp, who is better than him. Like, and he finished out of Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell, who are both also awesome players. Like the idea that he's, you know, being underrated or not giving enough respect or any of These things. Like, look, if you want to say, like, Jalen's obviously having a fantastic year, the. His numbers argument doesn't stack up with these other guys ahead of him. And if you want to say the narrative of carrying the Celtics team two places we did not expect is his best argument, which, by the way, is a very fair and good argument. It's not as good as Victor's argument and it's not as good as Cade's argument. So there he's properly rated. He's a hell of a player. He's going to be a second team all NBA player.

[B]

He might be first team all NBA.

[C]

He might be. But those five guys ahead of him, I think are going to be the first team. All the BA guys.

[B]

Yeah, but some of them are close on the engagement.

[D]

Sure.

[C]

If people get hurt, then Jalen could end up higher. But I'm saying based off the available information, you know, with Giannis out of the picture, those five guys are the first team, all NBA players. And Jalen will be right near the top of the voting for second team, which is a hell of an accomplishment. And there's nothing to. It's nothing to be insulted by. And it's not, it's not a. It's not a disappointment or it's not some overlooking of his candidacy. Just. It is what it is.

[D]

I don't think it's fair to the rest of the Celtics to say Jaylen Brown has carried them. That's not an accurate statement.

[C]

Well, I'm just saying, if you want, if you're making the argument for Jaylen Brown, he's their leading scorer, he's their number one option every night. Like, I'm just saying that's. It's a, it's a powerful argument. It just doesn't stack up with the guys who are ahead of him, that's all.

[D]

And look, people. And I think nerdy numbers can be misused. And I'm not saying that he isn't a driving force to the Celtics success this season, but the simple fact of the matter is the net rating with him on the floor is plus 5.0. Their net rating without him on the floor is plus 12.7. Now, that's about rotations. It's about a lot of things. But my point is, like you look at these other MVP candidates, like Wimby's got a massive net rating swing in the positive direction. That's always been a huge part of Joker's argument. Same with Shay. I mean, Jalen Brown is a deserving second team all NBA selection. He's on the fringe of the MVP conversation. But. And like this idea that, you know, he told Melissa Roland of the California Post something along the lines of, like, he. I don't know what the exact. I don't know if he has the exact quote.

[C]

We don't even have to. We don't have to dedicate.

[D]

He doesn't play the. He doesn't play the game in the media, so he didn't get the love. Like, dude, you're on a supermax contract because you've been all NBA before, right? That's voted on by the media. You were the Eastern Conference finals mvp. That's voted on by the media. You were the finals MVP. That's voted on by the media. There's not some media agenda against Jaylen Brown.

[B]

When he got all NBA, it made him. He didn't make, you know, he earned it. But when he got all NBA, it was in the year that he got the supermax.

[D]

Exactly.

[C]

That's what Tim just said. His stats are not as good as the five guys in front of him. And the narrative argument is not as good as the guy whose team is leading the Eastern Conference and the guy whose team is a couple games out of leading the Western Conference, so.

[D]

Or the reigning mvp, by the way.

[C]

Well, I understand that, but I'm just saying, like, narrative wise, like, those guys have the best narrative argument, but he doesn't have the first or second best narrative argument and he doesn't have one of the four or five best stats arguments. So he's right where he should be, which is no insult. So, you know, it's. It's perfectly fine. He's perfectly rated.

[B]

Well done by everybody. Real quick on Denver. And now that I'm going to say this, they'll probably be awesome in the clutch. Denver, you know, lost the clutch kids lost a couple of clutch games recently. They now have a losing record when games go to the clutch, they're 14 and 15. Their net rating in clutch performance clutch games is 26. Their assisted turnover ratio in clutch games is 26th. You know, like, they are obviously struggling because of injuries, particularly defensively. They have no doubt. They've had a lot of injuries all year long.

[D]

Yeah. The gourd entries especially.

[B]

I agree. I'm just saying that, like, you know, Jokic and, and Jamal Murray, you have those two guys. Those guys have long histories of being great clutch performers, and it's just not happening this year.

[D]

It's been baffling clutch misery for them. And they're four and six since Joker returned, including one in five in clutch games. And you know, uh, they're hoping, you know, David Adelman said this afternoon that they're hoping to get Aaron Gordon and Peyton Watson back for the last 20 games. Which would mean, you know, the next four or so games. It's, it's, it's been a, a wonky season for the Nuggets, but I, I still would say that they're going to be right there in the thick of things. If they have a healthy roster come

[B]

playoff time, I will say the teams around them in the standings, Houston, the Lakers, Lakers right now are in a neck and neck game with the Magic across the street from me. So I don't know how that's going to play out. But they've been there, you know, there's, there's some teams that around them that have been losing. So they haven't really like they've lost ground it for the two San Antonio's put some space out there, but they haven't like, you know, you lose three out of you, you go three and six in the west in different times you could go from three to seven. But they have gotten a little bit of grace. Cause some of those mid, mid table teams are.

[D]

I've got a question.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You're out there in LA a lot. Maybe I've missed it. Has LeBron lobbied for Luka's MVP?

[B]

You need to speak to MC10 about that.

[D]

But maybe I missed it. I haven't seen it.

[B]

Well, I'm not going to say anything right now because you know, he could have 25 in the fourth quarter, but he's so far to this point he's not having a great night. But we'll see what happens. I think we should give a little attention to Jonathan Kuminga, who played his first game as a Hawk on Tuesday night and put up a season high 27 points. They beat the Wizards and I have to assume that he was very pleased to get that. It comes at the expense, unfortunately of Jalen Johnson, who had a hip injury in the first quarter of this game. That said, I know it was a big moment for Kaminga. Pontemps.

[C]

Well, it's also, I mean it's kind of fortuitous timing for Jonathan Kaminga. Obviously you don't want anybody to get hurt in the Hawks. Obviously. Jaylah Johnson's had a phenomenal year. They're all star forward, but he left the game halfway through the first quarter like you said, with a hip flexor injury. And sort of the problem for Jonathan Kaminga is He landed in another situation where it's kind of an awkward fit. It's a little hard to play him and Jalen Johnson a ton together. And I mean, if Jalen Johnson could only play six minutes with a hip flexor, you would think he's probably going to miss at least a little bit of time. And that's going to give Jonathan Kaminga a chance to step presumably into his spot in the starting lineup and have the ball in his hands a lot and get shots up and make plays and do all the stuff that he has been wanting to do for a long time and to come back and have this game right out the, right out the gate. You know, I know Quinn Snyder was intrigued about getting him on the roster and getting his hands on him and see what he could do with them. And, you know, now he's going to have a chance to have some Runway potentially to have the ball and do stuff. So, you know, there, there'll be a lot of I told you so. I'm sure if they can make a camp today. Is that.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

The injury depleted warriors lost in New Orleans with a bunch of their guys out and, and he had his best game of the season and got a win.

[D]

I just, I dare someone in that warriors beat crew to ask Steve Kerr what he thought of Kaminga's debut for the Hawks. I dare somebody.

[B]

We'll see if it happens. Friedel, you're the man to do it. All right.

[D]

I nominate Slater.

[B]

All right. Thank you so much to Devon, Mark and Jackson, our producers. Thank you to Bon Tempson McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week.

[D]

Adios, Migos.

[F]

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