← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Celtics Most Consequential Win Of Year? + Adam Silver Takes a Major Stand
01:02:17
Hoop Collective: Celtics Most Consequential Win Of Year? + Adam Silver Takes a Major Stand
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- [00:02]
A
The world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more@Microsoft.com M365 copilot foreign. Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Thursday afternoon. I guess it's evening out on the east coast and that's where our guy Vince Goodwill is joining us from Boston, Massachusetts.
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B
What up though, Wendy, how you doing?
- [00:51]
A
I'm good man. I'm in LA. And joining me from up north in NorCal in Sacramento. Is he in his backyard or is he in his studio with a picture of his backyard behind him? You be the judge. Anthony Slater.
- [01:07]
C
Well, you were talking about like what time it is in various places. It's like permanently 1pm in this location that I am. Zero mile per hour wind. You won't see any movement behind me. But yes, you can decide am I in my backyard or am I in a fake version of it?
- [01:24]
A
Vince when he got his new studio set up and they had this beautiful screen behind him, people were upset that we didn't have the backyard anymore. We sort of tracked the year by the growth in the backyard. And so the backyard is back. That's all I can say.
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B
You know, I thought it was a screen the whole time, really.
- [01:45]
C
It would have been an impressive screen I was doing. There was like some December hits where I was talking about like Klay Thompson is like foggy and a little rainy out. I could like, you know, control the weather. This one I can't control the weather on so.
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A
So we just need to get a series of photos for the mood of the situation.
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C
I will say dawn, prior to taking this photo, about an hour ago I mowed the lawn before taking the photo.
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A
So you dressed the same.
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C
Don't have to. Don't have to mow it again though.
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A
That's right. You'll never have to mow it again. Glorious. All right, Vince, you were at what I think ended up being one of the most consequential games in the NBA so far this year on Wednesday night. It'll be a little bit dated by the time the pod comes out, but I still think that we need to pay attention to it. You were up in Boston. Thunder in town was a 12 game win streak. 12 game win streak. Celtics, both teams really at full strength. Right. I think there everybody was playing.
- [02:39]
B
Only Vucevich for the Celtics is out.
- [02:41]
A
That's right, that's right. Nikola Vucevic was out. And what we saw was a very consequential game with the Celtics winning. And what I thought was, I don't like the idea of a statement game from a champion and finals MVP Jaylen Brown, but I think he felt a certain way about the way this game went down.
- [03:01]
B
Yeah, he looked like he was playing the game on a mission. Especially early in the game when the Celtics, it seemed, I don't know if it seemed like this to you, Wendy and Slater. From watching from afar, it seemed like the Thunder were just on the verge of blowing Boston out in the first and second quarter. And you just look up and you're thinking they're down 15 and they were down like seven. And Boston just kept hitting a shot or two to keep themselves close. And then Jaylen Brown went and did the things that Shea Gilgis Alexander does, like the step back, the pump fake, the lean in and I'm going to get fouled by you on your shot and hit a three point play. Like there was an extra degree of force from Jaylen Brown last night. Like, I think it's so easy, Wendy and Slater to focus on the MVP candidates, so to speak. You know, Shay and Jaylen Brown. What stuck out to me was that J Dub, Jalen Williams was playing his second game back after missing 26 of 28 games with that hamstring injury. And Jayson Tatum was playing, I think his ninth game. And I think the conferences respectively might be determined by those players more than the stars. Like Jalen Williams has to get it going so that teams don't load up on Shay and ask Alex Caruso and Kayson Wallace and Lou Dort to make shots. Like, there is a book defensively out on the Thunder. Not many teams can actually execute it, but there is a book, so to speak. And it's going to be to load up and make somebody else make shots. And J Dub has to be able to alleviate some of that pressure. And for the Celtics, up until last night, Jayson Tatum was shooting the most shots per 36 minutes in his career. And I know people are thinking, like, what does that mean? To me, that shows he's trying very hard to become the J. Jayson Tatum that he's always been. And I don't know if he can actually achieve that this year. And it might not even matter. Cause the Celtics might just be that good. They can use a diminished version of Jason Tatum and still get through the Eastern Conference playoffs.
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C
Depends on how much though, right? I mean, you know, but he, I would say the two things, you know, the Jaylen Brown lean in one with like that was one of my favorite kind of moments of the season. Right. The way he giggled because when did they play Oklahoma City and Oklahoma City. Okay. And he had the post game. What was the post game comment he had like I don't foul bait or like we shouldn't be rewarded.
- [05:25]
A
Right, Right. Yeah.
- [05:26]
C
And then he shot like 21 free throws a couple games later. It's almost like he left that game after making that comment. Was like, man, let's see if I try a few of these things. And it's been working.
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A
Right.
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C
And I've never seen Jaylen Brown so satisfied after a make than he was on that pump fake. Lean in on Shea and one. But you know, to, to Vinnie's point and even Brian, the way you framed it is like kind of a statement game for Boston. I think in a lot of ways it is. Is they're like coalescing and Tatum I think is, is. Has this usage rate because I think he's trying to as quick to a level, you know, the highest level he can by playoff time because it's such a shortened season for him. But on the Thunder side, while, yes, they were whole for the first time in a while, it's such a like fresh wide rotation version of themselves. Jalen Williams, what do you play, 24 minutes maybe? I saw he was like 10 in the first half. He's so fresh off this injury. And I think they, they did play like an 11 man rotation. Everybody was playing like 21, 22 minutes. They're trying to play McCain and Isaiah. Joe and I, you know, I saw you on NBA today today, Wendy, with Jeremy Lynn.
- [06:32]
A
Yes, I was.
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C
Yeah, he broke it down like a wit.
- [06:35]
A
Last two days. Jeremy Lynn. I must say that as a quick aside, Jeremy Lynn is in for the week, guys. And you know, we have occasionally some, you know, relatively major names that come through that studio. There was a bunch of folks who wanted to like drop by the studio to say hi to Jeremy Lynn. The guy is a, especially for a certain, you know, group is a gigantic star. So it was interesting to watch, watch people like, who are used to being, you know, they don't care about Kendrick Perkins. They were very, very excited to see Jeremy Lynn.
- [07:15]
C
About the level of. When they see Brian Windhorst.
- [07:17]
A
No, no, that's some people.
- [07:22]
C
So. But I mentioned him because he did like a little like breakdown of the way Boston attacked, you know, Oklahoma City and did it did seem like almost playoff game planning from Missoula and he's like trying, you know, they're trying to get McCain as you know, the bottom man is like basically the help side guy and Isaiah Joe is being targeted and all that. And I just don't think the Thunder and Mark Dagnold, especially in Jalen Williams second game back, were at all attacking it as a playoff game. I think you could shorten the rotation if, if your smalls are getting exploited like that. We know what type of rotation that Thunder have if they shorten it to eight or nine and just went defensive hounds out. So very impressive from the Boston side. But I, I, I wasn't like ringing any alarm bells on the Oklahoma City side.
- [08:06]
A
Yeah. As a quick aside, I have talked to some people about the concept of whether you game plan where you want to show your cards in a regular season game. In fact, I was talking to another one of my studio mates at the right now, Michael Malone, about it and he said that, you know, he, you know, you may not, he said it was more like that you didn't necessarily want to show, you know, after time out plays that you may use, you know, later on the season. Because that's one of the things I remember earlier this year. This is an aside to an aside. Earlier this year I had a dinner with a, with an advanced scout and his team was playing while we were sitting there watching the end of the game his team was playing. And you know, he had prepared the, he had just prepared the scouting report for the, for that game, you know, the day before, two days before, and we got into a situation where his team was going to be having to defend a side out of bounds play. And he goes, okay. I think, I think his team was playing Boston actually. He's like, okay, Missoula is either going to go with A, B or C. I'll be able to tell you as soon as they line up what they're going to do. And as soon as they lined up he goes, okay, they're going with play B. And of course he was exactly right. He goes, oh, Missoula goes to this all the time in this late game situation. He was right and I'm fairly certain I don't remember how the play turned out, but his team won. And so those are some of the things that if you have special plays that you may run late game situations, you know, after ATO stands for after timeout, ato and maybe you may not show those things, but Malone's like, you know, you definitely could somewhat, you know, show a game plan that you may use. Like, you know, there's not many surprises in the NBA. He gives the. What happens in the, in the post season is more individualized game plans, you know, for individual players. What I mean, like, you know, they may do something to an individual player that they wouldn't do in the regular season just because. For prep reasons. But certainly Slater is right. Vince. I do think that Missoula treated that game more like a game of consequence than the Thunder did.
- [10:26]
B
Yeah, I think he kind of had to. I think for one, when you're the champion, and I said this to someone with the Thunder and he kind of nodded his head. When you're the Thunder and you're the defending champion, there's no more big games in the regular season. Like, there are big games, but there are no more big games. To some degree, you are everybody's big game. You are everybody's champion, so to speak. Where you're used to, you know, playing 82 playoff games. In a sense, like that's why San Antonio gets up for them all the time. And maybe a playoff series is a lot different with game planning and intensity and everything else. So I think for Boston, especially considering they're trying to get to a certain level like they were going to take this game way more seriously. They lost the game two weeks ago in Oklahoma City. They didn't feel great coming out of that. They felt great about the effort, they didn't feel great about the result, you know, and add to the fact that, look, they're trying to fight off the New York Knicks for second seed in the Eastern Conference, like home court advantage in both conferences I think is going to mean a lot in second round series or conference final series. So I just think, especially with the Tatum factor and trying to get him involved and figuring out where he fits with him, I think he was like 11 for 31 in the two games previously going into that. The Celtics needed that. They needed some, some positive reinforcement in that game way more than Oklahoma City did. This was the getaway game for OKC. This was the last game of what, a five or six game road trip?
- [11:57]
A
Five.
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C
Yeah.
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B
You know, they're on like a 12
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C
game win streak too, right?
- [12:01]
B
Yeah.
- [12:02]
D
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- [12:06]
A
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- [12:35]
D
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A
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- [13:51]
C
But it did creak the door open for the spurs, which to me this is more of an MVP conversation than like a, you know, top seed home court in a Game seven of A West finals. Although, you know, that could be pretty critical too. But is it creaking the door open for the one seed Creaking the door open a little bit for for this WEMBY campaign that is just rushing into your TV screens lately?
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A
Boy, I'll tell you what I got. I haven't talked to anybody in Oklahoma City, so I'm speculating and I don't even mean what the organization. It doesn't, you know, that's not even really relevant if you're a Thunder fan.
- [14:25]
C
Guy on the ground just Oklahoma's Bricktown. He wants to walk around Bricktown and poll people. That's what he wants to do.
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A
Like everybody else from Nebraska last week.
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C
Oh man,
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A
I got to imagine that they were that if you're a Shay fan, you're pretty annoyed with the concept that he's somehow getting caught by Victor. Even though Victor is doing some amazing stuff, like Shay is. He has not slowed down. Not like he's had a slump or something like that. And his team's just won 12. They just lost for the first time in a month. And like, it's very out there amongst people who are voters, like us, people saying, I don't know, like, maybe Victor and like, I can just imagine that the Shea fans are not happy.
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C
Number one, I was there the game that Shay hit the step back on the. The Nuggets to, you know, the game winner, which felt like the clincher for the mvp.
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A
I have all the answers. I just gotta wait for the questions.
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C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That felt like, okay, MVP's over and Vegas kind of agreed. Right. Didn't he go to like minus 1000 or something that night? And I'm not sure how much he.
- [15:25]
A
But you know that I, I knew it wasn't over. You know why?
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C
Yeah.
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A
There's always time.
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C
Yeah. And like, honestly, like, if, if it's. It was a good move by one Bama to like really vocalize it, like, you know. And again, it's. It's part of why I asked Draymond last night in his press conference and he gave that 4 minute, 40 second answer.
- [15:47]
A
I always appreciate Draymond's being loquacious, but he was being ridiculous.
- [15:53]
C
Well, the defensive part, there's two sides of the. Of his answer, and I think you're going to get to the ridiculousness of the defensive part, which is fine, you can go ahead. But the part I actually asked him about him, it's the second half of his answer which is interesting, is like, I believe, and I think he believes that when you do vocalize, as he has done in the past, as he did last year and vaulted himself in the defensive player of the year campaign, if you start a conversation as he did, it makes it more likely you win the award. So I do think Wimba Yama doing what he did made him more likely to win mvp. You can get to Draymond's other part of his argument.
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A
Well, that's what Jaylen Brown did too. Was it like a month or six weeks ago, Vince, where he was like, I'm the best two way player in the league, regardless of whether it's true or not. It started a lot of people talking about how great of a two way player he is.
- [16:37]
B
The amazing thing. The amazing thing. And I Said this on Get Up. It's almost like he told someone, hey, ask me about mvp. And then someone asks him and he says, it's funny you should say that about MVP. Here's what I think about. I have a three point PowerPoint plan on why I believe I am MVP. I have zero problems with a player advocating for himself. The funniest part to me was he said there's a bit of a debate going on. I didn't know there was a debate going on, but he created one through the power, through the power of his own conversation. And the next day it was, is Victor Wembanyama the mvp? And you're forced to actually ask and consider the question. I thought matters had been kind of adjudicated a little bit.
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A
Yeah, well, I think that we're headed for one. You know, Bon Simpson is going to do his poll here pretty soon. It's going to be one of the most consequential Bondemps polls we've ever seen. Because that, that last poll that Bondemps has done, not only has it predicted a bunch in a row, I think, I think it's like four or five. And I don't, I don't know, I don't want to put on the spot. But not only has he been, does, has he been nailing the winner, but he's been nailing the percentages. Like in the last couple of years he got within like 1 or 2% of the right votes.
- [17:53]
C
He does a really smart thing, which is he literally just asked the people that are going to be voting. He, he asked me every, you know, every time I vote every year.
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B
I mean, are you saying that Wendy is giving Bontemps too much credit?
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C
No, I'm saying he's giving him the proper credit. But the reason he gets it right is because he does this smart thing and he goes and he asks the people that are actually voting.
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A
Well, you know what? It's not really a poll. I mean, it is because he's, you know, the NBA doesn't publish the list of a hundred voters and they haven't. And they haven't even selected them yet. So he can't publish for sure. Know the hundred.
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C
Yeah, he's not going 100 for 100, but he's going to really smart subsection.
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B
Likely. I think, I think what it's called in the political world, likely voters.
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A
And he's not doing 10 voters, he's doing a hundred. So he, and he's doing them in all the markets. Like every time he does one, I feel Like, I've got to tell everybody, because I don't think, you know, people probably are annoyed, but, like, he goes to, you know, the NBA voters. There's one in every. There's two in every market, I think. Right, Vince? Two in every market. So that's 60.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And then the other 40 are made up of international and national media in all the phases. Broadcast writing, team media, national media, etc.
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C
Hey, buddy.
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A
Yeah.
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C
Andy makes you give you. Annie makes you give you all five. Like, give me your power.
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A
That's right.
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C
Not just like, who's good?
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A
And he got, you know, get your balance.
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B
And you know what's funny, Wendy? There was one year out of the last 16 that I've not had an MVP or a postseason award, and I'm still pissed at both teams for the reason why I was transitioning. Wait a second. That sounds like a bad word. I was going from Detroit to Chicago, from covering the Pistons to covering the Bulls. I covered the Pistons for maybe, like, 47 games or somewhere around there. And what happens is the teams tell the league, oh, here are the beat guys. These are the guys who have been covering all year.
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A
That's right.
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B
The Bulls thought the Pistons were putting my name down. The Pistons thought the Bulls were putting my name down. Neither side put my name down, even though I covered, like, a grand total of like, 85 regular season games all told. So I did not have an MVP vote. MVP vote in 2014. 15, where Steph won his first MVP and all that. And I was. I was despondent.
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C
Who would you have voted for?
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B
No, Steph would have got my vote that year.
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C
Famous.
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B
Okay, well, they won, like, 65 games or whatever.
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C
67.
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B
67. There you go.
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C
First, Steve Kerr season.
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A
Okay, so the Bontemps poll will be interesting when it comes out, by the way. Like, there's doubt, like, as any player will tell you, there's downsides to dealing with the media and, you know, annoyances and things that, you know, infuriate them, whether it's fair or not. So you might as well use the entire spectrum of it, you know, so when you have an opportunity, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Victor Smart. As for what Draymond said, what was annoying about what Draymond said was that he talked about a. Basically a strawman argument, which is, you know, you know, why does he. Why does anybody have to say that? You know, what did he say exactly, Slater?
- [21:13]
C
That he. He felt that when he. Saying defense is 50% of basketball was taken by, like, you know, the shows that you guys are on every morning as like a profound statement of like, wow, we just learned today that defense is 50% of basketball. Obviously it was kind of, in a lot of ways, the self serving side of his.
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A
Yeah, he was burnishing his own resume.
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C
Yeah. Well, welcome to the world of Draymond Green.
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A
I. And by the way, he took the
- [21:41]
C
question, gobbled it up through his lens, and then definitely had motives within his answers, delivered it very animatedly and entertainingly ticked off. Brian Windhorse, always a great checkpoint, but yeah, I mean, that was him saying, hey, we need to pay more attention to defense as a viewing public.
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A
Well, let me just say two things and then we'll move on. One, Draymond. While he's had difficult days and weeks in his career, he is going to go into the hall of Fame. He has four championship rings, he has a gold medal, he is made hundreds of millions of dollars, and he's regarded as one of the best defensive players of his generation. He's doing okay. That's number one. Number two is the defense has always been a part of the MVP vote. Yes, there are years when, like Nikola Jokic wins where defense matters less. But I won't even spend the time to go back and list all of the players who were honored for their defense the same year they won the MVP all four years. For example, LeBron won MVP. He was all defense, which did not happen every year of his career. I think out of 23 years, LeBron made all defense six or seven times. He won MVP four times. It wasn't like he made it 19 times. Jordan won. He was on the all defensive team four of the six times he won mvp. Obviously, a couple years ago, Giannis won defensive player of the year and mvp. I can go on and on and on. I mean, Kareem Abdul jabbar made like 12 all defensive teams and he won all those MVPs. I didn't look it up, but I'm sure that many of those years he was all defensive.
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B
I will say that. I will say this to some degree. You could make the case that Victor's a more impactful defensive player than offensive player. And very rare, very rare.
- [23:36]
A
I don't even think there's a case. I think that's absolutely true.
- [23:38]
B
Right, right. And what my point is, only with maybe Elijahwon when Olajuwon won it in 94 and maybe David Robinson in 95, but I think he's a better offensive player. Could you make the argument that the MVP was a more impactful player on Defense than offense. I don't think Draymond meant that. What I'm saying that this would be a rarity in that instance if he won award. If his great greatest value is on defense in a league now. Well, let's be honest. We don't say Jack Bo diddly about defense. Like the league has tilted the axis far more towards offense than it has.
- [24:16]
A
Well, that was the point that Stephen A made today when I was on first take. He's like, if Draymond has a beef, it's the league doing this. I mean, this Shea Armbar. And I don't even know if he pioneered it, but he uses it most effectively. Which, by the way, Jalen used against Shane last night. And there was. In that. In that Minnesota Houston game, which was one of the crazy games of the year, there was one key play where Julius Randall basically threw a punch. He. He shoved. I can't remember if it was Shen Goon. He shoved that arm so hard that it almost registered on the radar gun at target field. That's how much he threw that arm. And it was like. Referee was like, yeah, no problem. So, yeah, you're making a good point.
- [24:54]
C
Can I. Can I do a Vince Goodwill trivia question? I don't know the answer to this, but by the way. Right. Because he's a trivia guru.
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A
Did he did it again? Yes.
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C
Okay, well, I have a trivia question for him right here. And again, I don't know the answer. Maybe Jackson can look it up.
- [25:08]
A
What was the. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Slater, what was the question that you got right?
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B
The question was from himbo, of the players who won Back to back MVPs, who has the highest scoring average of those two years? And the answer was Kareem Abdul Jabbar, then Lu ALCINDOR. And the two years, he wanted the first, I think his second or third year in Milwaukee, where he might have averaged 31 and 34 or something like
- [25:30]
A
that, who had the. So I'm sorry, say that again. Who had the higher scoring average, the
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B
highest scoring average of. If you won MVP back to back, who's the player who scored the most?
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A
In other words, the Luca based question.
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B
Right, A Shay based question.
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A
Shay. Oh, Shay. Well, Luca the most.
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C
Who won their second. Like if you were on.
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B
No, you want. You have to win Back to back MVPs.
- [25:53]
A
Okay. Okay.
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C
Yeah, let me. Oh, so my trivia. My trivia question for Vince. When and if has it ever happened? Or how recent has the MVP also won defensive player of the year? Because It's a little more like Wimby's winning Defensive Player of the Year. Giannis won both.
- [26:11]
B
Yeah, Giannis won both in 2019.
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A
And I think it. Had it not happened since. Elijah wondered.
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B
And Elijah did it. Elijah Juan did it in 94. And Duncan never won defensive player to you, believe it or not.
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A
Interesting.
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C
Okay, let's see. There's a. Thank you.
- [26:26]
A
Tribute guru Draymond was.
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C
Oh, there we. How did we get you here?
- [26:31]
A
Jackson has the three guys and Jordan
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B
did it in 88. He was the first.
- [26:35]
A
Yeah. Jordan, Elijah, Wan, and Giannis. It's happened three times.
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C
There you go.
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A
But it might be four. I was. Put it this way.
- [26:42]
C
I think it's going to be Shay. I think it's going to be.
- [26:45]
A
So right now, I would probably vote for Shea, but I would say that I do think that regardless of what Wembanyama's pitch was, I do think that voters are looking for a reason to vote for Wemby. And if the spurs pass the Thunder, that could be a reason.
- [27:03]
B
The question is, okay, if they pass the Thunder, because I think McMahon has said that maybe it was today or yesterday or something of the. Of the sort, that if they pass the Thunder, it's an easy choice. How close do the spurs have to get without surpassing them? Like, it's two games. Well, how about this?
- [27:21]
C
How about they tie and they have the tiebreaker?
- [27:24]
B
They win the tiebreaker, then they win,
- [27:26]
A
then they pass them.
- [27:26]
B
Then they pass them. I wonder if some of this is OKC backlash to some degree.
- [27:32]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [27:33]
B
No, you know what I mean.
- [27:34]
A
Well, first off, we talked about this with Kerr recently. Slater, like, the procession of coaches coming into. It's like a rite of passage. Coming into Oklahoma City, playing them, and then going in and grumbling about the officiating like it's. It's. It happens like twice a week for the last three months. Yeah.
- [27:56]
C
There was like six straight Thunder games where we're at espn, right. In some form of newsers or. Mike Brown makes a comment. Steve Kerr makes a comment. Jalen Brown makes a comment. Yeah, right.
- [28:05]
A
I think Chris Finch. Chris Finch, you know, he sparked for sure.
- [28:09]
C
Yeah.
- [28:10]
A
The first fastest way to get Chris Finch in a bad mood is to. Is to. Is to have him talk about Oklahoma City and fouls.
- [28:16]
B
Well, I will say this, and I'm with you, Wendy, that a lot of this is OKC backlash. Usually when we get these close MVP votes, it's some sort of. Usually MVP is kind of. I won't say groupthink. Cause it's not quite groupthink, but I think in the space of us having these discussions all the time on podcasts and TV shows, you know, you wind up swinging voters and everything else, especially in the age of transparency. But usually the MVP vote is like controversial. If it's close, like the Russell Westbrook mvp, I'll stand on the table and say, if Russell Westbrook averaged 31, 9, 9, we have voted him MVP. We had an obsession with the number 10 and we cared about it so much that he did it the next two years.
- [28:57]
A
Yes.
- [28:57]
C
I mean that was such a narrative award. I voted for Russ.
- [29:00]
B
Right.
- [29:01]
C
And, and I was on, I, I covered the Thunder team that Durant was on. I went and covered the warriors with Durant and I was in the middle of that storm. That was in the way. It felt like he saved their franchise at the time. And I have to admit that somewhat swayed my thought process of valuable because. Right. Isn't that the whole thing of like, value to a franchise? So it wasn't just the triple doubles.
- [29:23]
B
The triple doubles created the, created the story. And you were close and you were there. The rest of the 125 voters or whatever the hell it was, they were obsessed with the triple doubles. Oh, he's going to be the first one to do it since Oscar. And then that created the narrative on top of the Durant stuff. And he and his team won 47 fricking games. We don't award MVPs to players who win 47 games and don't get out of the first round. I'm saying that to say usually when it's close, you have two worthy MVPs. I think like the Steve Nash, Shaquille Neal one zero five or Michael Jordan, Karl Malone in 97. Even though Karl Malone's a fraudulent MVP. I think this one, however close it becomes a if Victor doesn't win it, it's going to be so close that it's going to be undeniable that he wins it next year and he doubles up and this becomes like the Victor era. Secondarily, we've forgotten about Nikola Jokic being still like this incredible freaking dude.
- [30:23]
A
And Luka, I haven't. So I. So in the most recent thing that I did for TV this week, I had Jokic third and Luka fourth, which, you know, people in the studio and in the building rolled their eyes on these Lakers out here. Well, I mean, Jokic has put up absolutely jaw dropping numbers. He's still leading the league in rebounds and assists. Assists. People are like, you know, they're like, you know, Lucas third and assists in addition, leading points. I go, yeah, guess who's first? The last two games, Jokic has 37 assists and three turnovers, I think or two turnovers, something like that. But I don't like doing that. I don't like pushing somebody down. That's what I think. I hate. Like, like saying that Jaylen Brown is fifth on my ballot. Like, like that's saying you're a first team all NBA player. That's not, that's, that's a, that's a, that's an ultimate compliment. I, I don't know. But. Yes, but I think it's a two man race, you know. And I will say this. I did go back and look at the Westbrook Harden race because I, I remember that being like the, Is that the closest recent one? That be the closest recent one? It wasn't really that close. It was like 60 in terms of first place votes. It was like 67, 29 or something. Something or 69, 27. It wasn't super close. The closest one in my career was the Shaq Nash one. And I voted for now. I was young and stupid. Like, I don't, I'm not like, you got it right.
- [31:52]
B
You got it right.
- [31:53]
A
You voted. Steve Nash literally changed the entire NBA. Yes, he changed the NBA.
- [32:00]
B
We, by and large, we get MVPs. Correct. There's, like I said, there's exceptions. Will we get it wrong since the media started voting in 1980? If you want to do trivia, I can name every MVP from 1980 to now. I won't bore you with that.
- [32:13]
A
I'm learning about your trivia prowess.
- [32:15]
C
Yeah, it's unbelievable.
- [32:17]
B
Yeah, I'm just a weirdo in that way. But by and large, with maybe I would say over the 45 years that we've been doing this, if my math is correct, there's maybe three in my book that we've gotten wrong.
- [32:28]
A
Okay.
- [32:28]
B
The Steve Nashla Karl Malone over Michael Jordan in 97.
- [32:33]
A
I was in college. I can't be blamed Russell.
- [32:36]
B
You can blame Jackie McMullen for a sports Illustrated article where Karl Malone said I'll never win mvp, blah blah, blah blah blah and everybody felt sympathy.
- [32:44]
A
Jackie McMullen, we call her the legend on this podcast.
- [32:46]
B
I get it.
- [32:47]
C
That is not her fault. That is also a good example of advocating for yourself and perhaps shifting.
- [32:52]
B
No, no, that's not advocating for yourself. You're whining that, oh, they only going to give it to Michael Jordan.
- [32:59]
C
Different strategies of advocating whining is One of them, my three year old son. That's the way he attempts to do that at times.
- [33:07]
A
AJ shout out to AJ yeah, I
- [33:09]
B
think the second Karl Malone MVP was in the strike shortened or lockout shortened 99 year. That actually could have went to Alonzo Morning or Tim Duncan and then the rust year in my book. But the Steve Nash MVP years. I know people want to say Kobe should have won in 06. Once again, a team that won what, 46 games got knocked down the first round by Steve Nash. I have zero problems with how we've awarded things by and large over the past 45 years.
- [33:37]
A
So I remember, I thought, you know, Kobe was probably the best player in the league in 05, 06. He didn't win it. I mean, that was the Dirk year, right? I mean.
- [33:48]
B
No, that was Nash.
- [33:50]
A
No, no, Dirk wanted the next. And that was Kobe. 108, right?
- [33:57]
B
Yep.
- [33:58]
A
So I remember thinking that Kobe was probably the best player in 06, 07. He didn't win it because his team didn't do well. And that was the year that the, the mavericks won like 66 or something, right?
- [34:10]
B
Yeah, 67. Yeah.
- [34:12]
A
And I remember in 2007, 8, the year Kobe won it, I thought LeBron was actually the best player. Like I thought Kobe should have won it in 07, really, and that LeBron probably should have won in 08 and then LeBron didn't win in an 09. But I think the only vote that I regret is, and I've said this before, is the vote that I cast in 2018. And I have to give, I have to go with, I have to acknowledge McMenam in here because in 2018, the James Harden. The year James Harden won, he won it overwhelmingly. He had 85. And I think LeBron had 15 for first. I think it was only two, two guys that got first place votes. I can't remember. Dave was hard advocating for LeBron. That was LeBron's last year in Cleveland. They had the fourth seed. Their defense was a joke all year. LeBron played all 82 games and then had the greatest, in my view, probably the greatest playoff run of his career. After that they won. It was not dominant by the team whatsoever. They won two seven game series. It was the year that he took out the game.
- [35:18]
C
One game one of the finals is like the most legendary. One of the more legendary performance in the loss, which includes obviously the J.R. smith moment and all that.
- [35:27]
A
Right. And LeBron punches the whiteboard and fractures his knuckle. That's also the year that he. The Raptors were the number one seed, and they spent the entire year, like, focused on getting the high seats so that if they played LeBron again, they could get home court. And LeBron swept him. And game three, he hits that running bank shot at basically, I think there was a tenth of a second left basically at the buzzer to beat him. And I remember I went to the Raptors locker room like, Kyle Lowry had a great year that year. DeMar DeRozan had a great year. Dwayne Casey won coach of the year. And I remember going down to the Raptors locker room. I loved cover. You know, I loved covering the Raptors. That was a great team. And I remember the absolute face, the stone faces on Masai Ujiri and Bobby Webster, their front office leaders, their faces. Dwayne Casey, I think, probably knew he was getting fired. DeMar DeRozan didn't know he was getting traded. But if you'd have told me when I was down in that locker room that 12 months later I would be covering the Raptors receiving the Larry o' Brien trophy, I'd have told you, get out of my face. Stop messing around. So things can change fast in the NBA. But I voted for Harden that year, and he won it going away. And he had been close several years. There was one time, I can't remember how close he was the year before, but I was doing radio in a New York radio station. I was actually in the station, and I was. I did a radio hit and it was late. It was probably about. About this time of year. It was a little bit later in April, and I did. I did a hit and I went to the bathroom after the hit, and I'm in the bathroom and the producer sticks his head and he goes, brian, are you there? And I go, yeah. And he goes, hey, Daryl Morey is on with us next. He heard you, you know, waiting for you, and he wants to debate you about whoever. I said it wasn't hard and was my vote. And he's like, darrell wants to debate you on the air about why it's hardened. I was like, all right, let me finish.
- [37:36]
C
Going to the bathroom advocating for yourself.
- [37:40]
B
Shocker. The year before that was the rush year. So then the hardened thing comes in.
- [37:46]
A
Okay, So I must have said. I was. I did vote for Russ, so I must have argued for Russ, and he wanted to debate me on live radio. I remember that. But anyway, LeBron's 2018 season might be his most remarkable year for a bunch of different reasons. And I regret not. I regret not voting. I've said this before. I regret not voting for LeBron in 2018, even though there was no way Harden was not winning. But I do regret that vote.
- [38:16]
B
Well, you just said it. His team finished fourth in a weak Eastern Conference.
- [38:21]
A
Right.
- [38:22]
C
Wasn't that also the year he was like, really not trying defensively near the deadline as like a basically like, go, go change some stuff up type protest?
- [38:34]
A
I would argue he wasn't trying offensively either. Basically, he reduced his. He went from playing at a level 10 to like a level 8. And you could never prove it, although I don't think it was denied. You could never prove it, but. And it lasted for like seven to 10 days, or maybe it was like maybe five or six games. But the Cavs knew. So the Cavs agreed to trade basically a third of their team and they told LeBron they were trading Isaiah Thomas, and LeBron like, decided to re engage and he had this incredible game and he hit a game winner at the buzzer to beat the Timberwolves. And I've talked about this before. Isaiah runs out to like, chest bump him. And LeBron, already knowing that Isaiah was going to be traded the next day, like, turned his body and like, hip checked Isaiah. And Isaiah, like, went flying. He's like, nope, I am not high fiving you.
- [39:38]
B
I remember. I do remember Minnesota.
- [39:40]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that being part of, like, the reasoning for him not winning regular season MVP was that chunk of that season that.
- [39:48]
A
And I. And I wish McMenamin was here because his argument then and I assume his argument now, and I mean, like, I've had to admit that I. The more I've looked back on it, the more I recognized how incredible his 2018 season was. I didn't appreciate it in the moment, but certainly it was, you know, his playoff run was just insane. But McMenamin's point, I hate to put words in his mouth, but I think he said this publicly. So was that LeBron doing that was a way to force the Cavs into improving their roster. And that that could be argued that since he couldn't ask for it and get them to trade, the reason they didn't want to trade anybody was because he hadn't signed an extension and they knew there was a chance he was going to leave and Dan Gilbert didn't want to be left holding a roster that didn't have a future like happened the last time when he left. And so they were like, well, we're not going to trade a bunch of guys, but guess what? They ended up doing that and their team did improve and they did make the finals. And you know, Dave's argument was that what LeBron did actually helped the Cavs improve. And so while did maybe not be the most altruistic way of doing it, it did help the team. And therefore it should not be looked at it as a negative, that it should have actually been looked as, you know, sort of not, you know, mainstream leadership.
- [41:13]
C
MVP dodge today.
- [41:14]
A
Deep.
- [41:15]
C
I mean, we're so far off the beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [41:19]
B
Wendy. So last one, Wendy, last one. Because we're, we're, we're just. So LeBron has four, and you can make the army for five. And not to say that he should have five, but if you were to give him a fifth, would it be 2018 or 2011?
- [41:33]
A
No, 2018, because 2011, legitimately, he did have a down year. His numbers backslid. If you look at the numbers, I mean, part of it was natural because Cohen had played with Wade and Bosh, but his numbers did backslide. And Derrick Rose was awesome. And there were so many games that year where the Bulls were. Could have gone either way. And Derrick Rose carried him home like it was kind of like Shay, like, how many? Maybe not as much as Shay because, you know, everything's a little bit more, you know, higher. Higher production these days. But he had many, many games where he was a difference making player at the end of these games.
- [42:10]
B
No, once again, I think we get it right.
- [42:14]
A
By the way, I didn't have a vote that year. I did not have a vote that year. Well, I'd left Cleveland and I went to Miami and I was absolutely not established as a media member in Miami and I was not regarded as a national media person. I was covering the Heat and there was established people in Miami and so I did not have a vote. So that year, I mean, it's easy for me to say I didn't have a vote. So I don't, I didn't, I didn't make a vote for LeBron or Derek, but I think I remember feeling like Derek was the appropriate winner. Although you're right, if you asked LeBron, he should have won both years, probably is what he was saying.
- [42:51]
B
He thinks he should win every year, you know.
- [42:53]
A
Well, he probably thinks he should have at least three or four more.
- [42:58]
B
That's insane. I'm sorry.
- [43:00]
A
That's legitimately insane because I put words in his mouth and then next thing
- [43:04]
B
you know, no, don't get in trouble. Don't. Don't hear from anybody. Let's let's talk board of Governors.
- [43:11]
A
But I think it's safe to say LeBron believes he should have something more than four. And I believe 2011, he has indicated he thinks he should have won because of just the drama that he went through. And also the year he went back to Cleveland in 2014-15, really well, his numbers also backslid that year. But what I think. I'm not saying this is what LeBron thinks, nor am I saying this is what LeBron said. What I think is that LeBron felt that his role as basically putting the roster together, he basically did the Kevin Love trade. He basically told the CAVS, go get J.R. smith. And then he. I think LeBron also felt he was basically partially coaching the team. He. Very publicly. That's the.
- [44:05]
C
That's part of, like the Westbrook thing we were talking about earlier of, like, value to a franchise. He had a lot of value to that franchise.
- [44:12]
A
I'm not looking to take decade old potshots at David Blatt. Okay? But like, you know, LeBron openly was admitting that he was changing plays.
- [44:22]
B
Yes, he did.
- [44:23]
A
And, you know, I wrote a book about this and many different ways that he undermined Blatt, which maybe he saw as he was coaching the team. He kind of thought I was helping put the team together, I was helping coach the team. You know, what else am I supposed to do?
- [44:37]
B
Would it be executive of the year, coach of the year?
- [44:40]
A
Quick thing with David Griffin. I don't want to say anything. David Griffin did a lot of maneuvering.
- [44:45]
B
All right, wait, Wendy, quick thing, Wait. Quick thing about Blatt. I promise you, this is really quick. Did you ever notice whenever you had to talk to Blatt at a press conference, you would say your name and he would say it back to you. That was the weirdest thing ever. You would say, you know, Vincent, goodwill, blah, blah, blah. He'd say Vincent. Our buddy Nick Friedle would say Nick Friedle, espn. And he would say Nicholas. Like, he didn't say Nicholas, he said Nick, you dope.
- [45:12]
C
Geez. Maybe she's trying to be friendly. He's trying to be personal.
- [45:16]
B
No, he was not. He was not friendly at all. He was a.
- [45:20]
A
He took an adversarial position with the media. And I hope David is doing well. That's all I have to say. I hope he's doing well. It was a tough situation for everybody involved. There were good people on both sides. Is that okay to say that?
- [45:36]
C
As long as you'll say, find people on both sides.
- [45:39]
A
All right. There was a owner's meeting yesterday. I don't know if you heard more Hoop Collective podcast after this Amazon Hub
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D
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- [47:55]
A
Adam Silver talked for 40 minutes about many things, mostly expansion. There'll be a lot of expansion talk in the coming months and years because it's going to be years. But I do want to say, Vince, that Adam Silver announcing that we're going to fix tanking and we're Going to do it in the next six weeks. I was like, wow. Like we're holding a meeting in May and we will fix it in May. I was like, wow, that's amazing. Congratulations. Congratulations on fixing, tanking. Good job. And a lot of people asked me about it today. They wanted to talk about it all over espn. They were like, what did you think about what Adam Silver said? And I'm like, what's the plan? Am I allowed to see the plan before I offer an opinion? So I gotta say him like guaranteeing that timeline was. I don't know, I thought that was actually one of the more surprising things. I knew Seattle and Vegas were getting expansion teams. That was not a surprise. Him doing that, Vince was a surprise to me.
- [48:56]
B
It was funny. It almost feels like. Cause I wasn't, I was in Boston so I wasn't able to see it. But I read the transcript. It was his most like the strongest statement that he's made since banning Donald Sterling. Remember he stood on a dais and said, I am banning Donald Sterling. And then he paused and he was like, for life. And it was like, that's what it read like, full stop. And the fact that he's going, Adam never. The thing about Adam Silver, he never goes out and makes statements like absolute statements, like he doesn't make statements absolutely unless he knows he has the votes. Unless he knows for sure that something is coming a certain way. Because he doesn't want to be. He's a politician, doesn't want to back himself into a corner. So the fact that he is saying this and he said some stuff at Sloan conference in Boston a few weeks ago that indicated some of the same things. I think he does have a plan. I'm curious of what the plan is. I think he's going to go full radical. I don't know what, I don't know what that exactly means, but whether it is something like point differential. Because when you look at some of the scores on a night to night basis, you can't stop a team from not playing their guys. But if you disincentivize them, losing by 30 to prove a point. And maybe you tie lottery odds to point differential. Or my idea, which is you set the lottery odds at the 35 game mark so that everything that happens after that doesn't matter. Like you can't tank your way into a better lottery position in February, March and April. Like I think, I don't know if he's going to be that, but I presented that suggestion to him in close quarters before and he wasn't necessarily. He and Mike Bass weren't necessarily like, hey, that's a bad idea. You know what I mean? Like that sort of thing. So I think he's going to do something strong here.
- [50:47]
C
There's. There's been like 80 different ideas. He's probably going to do a handful of them. Right. I don't think it's just going to be one little one. I think they're going to try to tweak the rules in several ways. We'll see which ones he lands on. Which, to Brian's point, will, will, will. You know, we could probably judge the plan once it's laid out, but I do think the timeline that he kind of mentioned is important. Where you say mid May, you know, teams need to make trades around the draft. Teams need to make big decisions in late July or late June, early July. And you need to know the rules when you're making big moves.
- [51:20]
A
Right.
- [51:20]
C
You need to know what type of like, you know, draft pick situation you have. So I do think, you know, learning the plan soon, as soon as possible, will be important to the plotting of these front offices, who may want to trade future picks and blah, blah, blah, you know, moving forward.
- [51:38]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's really, really hard to really know what to say until I see it and I'm, you know, the thing about it is it's like over the last few months, whenever somebody has said, here's my 11 point plan for tanking, I've kept scrolling or I've closed the window. I'm not interested in reading everyone's plan. I'm not saying that their plans aren't great. I'm not saying that they're not smart people, wonderful people.
- [52:03]
C
What we can say, Brian, is that something is going to change. I think that is.
- [52:07]
A
That is absolutely.
- [52:09]
B
Do you have a suggestion, Wendy? Do you have a big brain?
- [52:13]
A
Wendy thought, yeah, I can do it in one sentence. I don't need an 11 point plan. I can do it. I can't tell you how he's going to do it, but I can tell you what to do in one sentence.
- [52:21]
B
What's that?
- [52:22]
A
Incentivize winning instead of losing. The end.
- [52:27]
B
In the words of Kanye west and the Kobe Bryant commercial. What the f does that mean, Brian Winhorse?
- [52:37]
A
Yeah, you're talking about people that call you by their name. Isn't that what Kanye does? He calls people by first less.
- [52:43]
C
Make it less beneficial to lose. That's what you're talking about.
- [52:47]
A
It means that.
- [52:47]
B
Does this mean Oklahoma City could get the first pick? Or something. If you're saying incentivize winning, are you saying put everybody in the draft lottery?
- [52:55]
A
No, I don't think so. No, that's not going to happen. That's not realistic. You know what I, the most important thing when you consider this is that, and this is what I always say to people, like over the decades when people have like pitched me, like, this is my idea for fewer games. This is my idea for, you know, three game series in the first round. This is my idea for this, this and this. I go, remember, I don't care if it's the greatest idea in the history of mankind. You gotta have 23 owners say yes. Any big thing like this, you need three quarters. So it can't be a vote that seven guys are gonna say or eight guys or guys or women are gonna say no to. So, you know, that's it. But really the thing about it is, is that the teams are just doing what they're incentivized to do. And right now they're incentivized, they're heavily incentivized, I would say to lose. And so you're going to have to make a structure where they're incentivized to win. Vinnie.
- [53:50]
C
You know, this was a full tanking segment by Brian Woodhorse, I believe we were on the podcast where he declared that he this would never happen.
- [53:58]
A
And I've pretty much stuck to it.
- [54:01]
C
I mean, to a degree. You were like Adam nothing.
- [54:06]
A
This is Jackson. I've, I think Jackson give a ruling here. I've pretty much stayed away from talking about, about, I think I, I did better than I thought I would do. I'll put it that way. But this, but this was, you know, newsworthy. I, I, I, I said I wasn't about the actual like analysis strategies and
- [54:24]
C
what, you know, going through like jazz last week.
- [54:27]
B
And you know, my, my, my one concern about Adam is that I think he's, he's so online. He pays so much attention to what the peanut gallery says that sometimes there's like an overcorrection. I don't know how you necessarily overcorrect this. Maybe this is just me hoping a pie in the sky thing that he would consider something that I've said to him or one of the minions in the league office over the years. But I think the fact that he's spoken so strongly about it, I think he has some big brained idea that he believes will pass. I'm very curious what the hell it is. Cause some teams are just bad, some teams are Just bad. And they ain't tanking. They just bad. Cause they bad.
- [55:13]
A
Well, that's one thing that Adam said. And I've heard teams, and I'm not going to say which teams, because I'm not looking to open this conversation, but I've heard a team or two, split the baby or split the hair between the difference between rebuilding and tanking, that. No, no, we're not tanking. We're rebuilding. Those bastards over there are tanking. And Silver. Silver referenced that in his. In his talk yesterday that, look, the team.
- [55:42]
C
The team closest to me, the team right down the road, the Sacramento Kings, entered the season attempting to at least, you know, make the play in. They had a bunch of veterans. Like, they weren't tanking. They weren't actively trying to have as bad a season as possible, but they played themselves into a scenario where it was very obvious they weren't going to make the playoffs. And by March, it's like, yeah, Damonis, the bonus, who has a partially torn meniscus, should probably get the surgery. Zach, who has an issue with his hand, could he play through it? Certainly, but probably should get the surgery late in the year. Now, as they're playing these big games where, you know, it's like, even if they are not a tanking franchise, and every time Doug Christie or, you know, Scott Perry is asking a public setting about it, they're going to be very anti. We're not trying to lose tonight. And they have won some games they strategically probably shouldn't have. Still, they're doing some type of tanking strategies because it's kind of obvious they should. Yet they would say, hey, we're not a tanking franchise. We didn't attempt to tank this year.
- [56:38]
A
Well, that's what I was going to say. I guess I would acquit the Kings of that because they went through a streak recently where they won five out of eight games.
- [56:47]
C
Yeah, six and five big wins in some ways you would say.
- [56:53]
A
And yes, because they beat the Jazz.
- [56:56]
C
Disaster.
- [56:57]
A
Disastrous win.
- [56:58]
C
They beat the Nets.
- [56:59]
A
Yeah, disastrous win. And by doing that, they have now moved out of the bottom three. And the bottom three have the same record. The same. Not the same record, but the bottom three of the. All the same odds. So what you want to do is be in the bottom three.
- [57:12]
C
I think it's bottom four. A flat nodding four.
- [57:14]
B
It's bottom four.
- [57:15]
A
Oh, are they in the bottom four?
- [57:17]
C
I believe they believe five. But, you know, there's been some wins lately where, you know, like the. The Wizards. Let me smoke the Jazz Yesterday, which was something. And the Kings, well, the Wizards are
- [57:30]
A
safely in the zone. Okay, Sack. No, no, the top, the top. It's still very good for the fourth, but the top three have the. Have the same odds.
- [57:41]
C
Well, one of the main things, like, you know, the Kings were in pole position to be the worst team in the league. And now Brian, we are getting deep into a tank conversation. But the Kings were in pole position for the worst record.
- [57:52]
A
He's going to use it against me.
- [57:53]
C
And then they won six of 11 and they leap to, you know, whatever, fourth or fifth. And the problem with that is when you are the worst team in the league, you do have the flattened lottery odds where you have the same odds as, you know, two, three, four. But if you don't get one of those top four lottery positions, you have a guaranteed fifth pick. And in this draft to. If you have the worst record in the league at the end there, you have a guaranteed top five pick. Where now a team like the Kings could backslide to 6, 7, 8. Where, you know, if they had stayed a firmer course, they could add a guaranteed.
- [58:21]
A
This is the last thing I'm going to say, but go ahead. Vin.
- [58:23]
B
What happens when the. What happens when the Milwaukee Bucks get the first pick?
- [58:27]
A
Well, then basketball, you know what I mean?
- [58:30]
C
Nope.
- [58:32]
A
That's right.
- [58:32]
C
Is where it will go. It will go to the Atlanta.
- [58:35]
A
The best of the Bucks can do is get the second pick.
- [58:37]
C
That's when people really scream conspiracy. If the Bucks get the first and the Pelicans get the second. So the Bucks get the second pick. It's like you have to doctor up to.
- [58:47]
A
Nobody's going to can be think that they're going to conspire to help Milwaukee. No offense to Milwaukee.
- [58:52]
C
Hey, but to Vinny, NBA fans believe
- [58:54]
B
in the conspiracies more than any other sports fan like block ever.
- [59:02]
C
I'll tell you this, if the Bucks do get the first pick, you're going to look at two. There will be two stories off that. Number one.
- [59:08]
A
Wow.
- [59:09]
C
The Atlanta Hawks, who, you know, look awesome by the way, had a huge win in Detroit last night. Have this rising young core will then get who Darren PETERSON, you know, A.J. deBance or whoever. That'll be interesting. And also so, man, how are we going to look at that Derek Queen trade for the Pelicans if that happens?
- [59:24]
A
Let me just. This is the last thing I want to say on it and then I'm going to end the podcast. This is the last 10 games for the top teams in the lottery. Indiana lost One in nine, Brooklyn. One in nine, Washington. One nine Utah. Two and eight, Dallas. Two and eight, Memphis. One and nine, Sacramento. Five and five, bro.
- [59:54]
C
Hey. And by the way.
- [59:56]
A
And they fall in multiple positions, so.
- [60:01]
C
Yeah. And like, DeRozan had, like, a basketball karma. Maybe they will.
- [60:05]
A
Maybe they will jump up. Maybe they will jump up, finish the job.
- [60:09]
C
Yeah. I was gonna. I was gonna give you a warrior segment of, like, the. The dark times in San Francisco, but we can all. We can push that. We'll have a little.
- [60:18]
A
Yeah, there's still going to be dark times next week. I'm sorry about Moses Moody. You know. You know what sucks about that more than anything other? Not only the fact that he obviously has this terrible injury, but that he's a free agent.
- [60:28]
C
No, he's not.
- [60:29]
A
Oh, he's not. He's got one year left.
- [60:30]
C
No, no, he's got.
- [60:31]
B
He's.
- [60:31]
C
He's in year one of a three or $39 million extension.
- [60:34]
A
Total brain fart.
- [60:35]
C
You know, that's. That is.
- [60:37]
A
Let me take that back. Jackson. Make. Don't make me sound stupid. Thank God he signed that contract extension.
- [60:43]
C
There you go.
- [60:43]
A
I totally forgot he signed the extension. That actually makes me feel better.
- [60:47]
C
Yeah.
- [60:47]
A
It just.
- [60:47]
C
It personally is good for. For Moses Moody, but, you know, when we. When I'm be. You know, talking about these dark times for the warriors, they now have two players under contract next season, one making 58 million, one making 13.9. Both of their starting wings are going to be out, I would say, half to a majority of season, and next season is like, you know, this huge. Like, you know, can they have this final grasp at the Steph Currier and as they try to rearrange the roster and it's just. Just. That's. That's part of the story that is developing within the season. And again, we don't need to get into another segment on Steph's knee injury, although that is a very important thing, like where is his, you know, later stages of his career going? But this really disastrous turn in their season is really starting to impact next season in a bad way.
- [61:33]
A
I know that this will provide absolutely no solace, but I'm going to say it anyway. This is why, when your team is able to, through great management, great players, great fortune, go to six finals in a decade. Actually, what was it? Six finals in eight years or nine years?
- [61:56]
C
Yeah, yeah. Five straight. Right.
- [62:00]
A
You have to cherish that incredible run because the amount of things that have to go your way to do that is. Is this what I'm Saying like, this is why I think LeBron, LeBron going to eight finals in a row is just absolutely incredible in this day and age. Jackson's final comment on the matter. If the podcast is a car, we have to understand that a metaphor. Sometimes the road of storylines have forced us through some tanking states, but we try to avoid them. Jackson, keep producing, don't make content. That's what I would say. Jackson actually is just over the moon. You want to know why? Because the Jerry Mack.
- [62:43]
C
Yeah.
- [62:43]
A
They stayed in the family.
- [62:45]
C
Oh, in the family, hired Jerry Mack. Yeah. That never burns you.
- [62:50]
A
Yeah. He's so excited. He's already cleared next year. He will not be available on this date. He will be at the Syracuse final form.
- [63:00]
C
Okay.
- [63:01]
A
Or I mean, sweet 16. There'll be at least a sweet 16, not the final.
- [63:04]
C
That would be big for them, too.
- [63:06]
A
Let's not get ridiculous. He says we'll do a live pod in Syracuse.
- [63:11]
B
Is that Canada at this point?
- [63:16]
A
Listen, my guy in Syracuse, Alex Klein, the gm, got fired. So that was my connection in Syracuse. I don't know anybody else from Syracuse. I know none of them. Nobody else I've ever met has ever been involved in Syracuse.
- [63:29]
C
Never.
- [63:29]
B
Never.
- [63:30]
A
All right, thank you so much to Vince. Thank you so much to Slater. Thank you much to Slater's backyard. Thank you to Jackson and Tucker and our other producers. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.
- [63:47]
D
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A
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D
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A
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D
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