Change Coming In Phoenix? Minutes Concern For Knicks? The Finals Favorites

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Change Coming In Phoenix? Minutes Concern For Knicks? The Finals Favorites
Release Date: March 14, 2025
Hosts: Tim Bontemps, Snoop Dogg, Bam Adebayo
Guests: Bam Adebayo

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with host Tim Bontemps welcoming listeners to "The Hoop Collective." Joined by co-hosts Snoop Dogg and Bam Adebayo, the team sets the stage for an in-depth discussion about recent NBA developments, game analyses, and overarching team strategies.

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2. Thunder vs. Celtics Game Analysis

Timestamp: [04:31] – [15:14]

The hosts delve into the intense Thunder vs. Celtics matchup that took place on Wednesday night. Despite initially favoring the Celtics, Snoop Dogg shared his evolving perspective:

Snoop Dogg [04:31]: "I still think I'd pick Boston to win because I think they are deeper and more versatile overall than the Thunder."

However, the game demonstrated the Thunder's potential, especially through Chad Holmgren's standout performance. Tim Bontemps highlighted Holmgren's significance:

Tim Bontemps [05:41]: "Chad Holmgren is the second best player on the Thunder in my opinion."

The conversation emphasized the Thunder's defensive prowess and their ability to challenge the Celtics, particularly noting:

• Celtics struggled with open three-point shots, hitting only 5 of 27 in the second half.
• The Thunder showcased resilience by maintaining their performance even without key players like Jalen Williams and Isaiah Joe.

Bam Adebayo underscored Holmgren's impact and the depth of the Thunder's roster:

Bam Adebayo [07:02]: "Chet's performance in that game to me was by far the most important thing. If they get that guy come playoff time, Thunder are going to be extraordinarily difficult to beat."

Notable Quotes:

• Snoop Dogg [05:41]: "The Thunder are far and away the best team in the Western Conference and should be in the NBA Finals."
• Bam Adebayo [08:39]: "They are like the top team defensively, but their offensive versatility needs to improve."

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3. Knicks Coaching and Player Minutes Management

Timestamp: [26:39] – [31:21]

The discussion shifts to the New York Knicks, focusing on concerns about player minutes and coach Tom Thibodeau's management strategies. Mikhail Bridges raised eyebrows with his comments on player usage:

Mikhail Bridges: "I need to play the bench more."

This sparked a debate about Thibodeau's approach to player minutes, especially concerning star players like Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns. Tim Bontemps highlighted the inconsistency in minutes distribution:

Tim Bontemps [27:13]: "Jalen Brunson plays 35 minutes and Carl Towns is playing less than Jalen."

Bam Adebayo defended Thibodeau, emphasizing the coach’s strategy to maximize player availability and effectiveness:

Bam Adebayo [28:03]: "They have one guy who generates a ton of free throws. The rest of the guys are catch and shoot players."

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Bontemps [27:13]: "Carl Towns is like 25th in the league in average minutes."
• Bam Adebayo [28:03]: "There’s some method to his madness when it comes to how he proportions these minutes out."

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4. NBA Tanking and Team Strategies

Timestamp: [32:06] – [40:57]

A significant portion of the episode addresses the ongoing issue of tanking within the NBA, focusing on teams like the Utah Jazz, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors, and their strategic maneuvers to secure favorable draft picks.

Utah Jazz Fine:

The Utah Jazz faced a hefty fine of $100,000 for tanking by resting star player Lauri Markkanen during a loss to the Washington Wizards.

Tim Bontemps [31:36]: "The league fined them $100,000 for basically being convicted of tanking."

Sixers and Raptors:

The Philadelphia 76ers are grappling with a disappointing season, losing 16 of their last 19 games, positioning them to potentially forfeit their draft pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Bam Adebayo [33:06]: "They have to finish the top six pick to keep it. Otherwise, it goes to Oklahoma City."

The Toronto Raptors are also making strides to avoid tanking despite their efforts, thanks to a relatively easier schedule.

Notable Quotes:

• Bam Adebayo [38:12]: "This is the most expensive team in NBA history. Unless they get things right soon, they're not even going to make the play-in."
• Snoop Dogg [38:19]: "The Jazz were fined for sitting Markkanen, but several other teams are openly tanking as well."

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5. Phoenix Suns Ownership and Rebuilding

Timestamp: [42:06] – [60:38]

A deep dive into the Phoenix Suns' current state under new ownership led by Matt Ishbia. The hosts discuss Ishbia's aggressive strategies, team performance issues, and Devin Booker's unwavering commitment to the franchise.

Matt Ishbia's Leadership:

Bam Adebayo criticizes Ishbia's refusal to adopt a patient rebuild approach:

Bam Adebayo [47:09]: "There is no trust the process with Matt Ishbia. He is like, dude, there's no patient rebuild here."

Snoop Dogg echoes these sentiments, highlighting the Suns' top-heavy roster and lack of draft capital:

Snoop Dogg [55:13]: "The Suns have dug themselves a gigantic hole and they can't dig out of it."

Devin Booker's Commitment:

Devin Booker remains steadfast in his desire to remain a one-franchise player, bolstering the Suns' efforts to rebuild around him.

Bam Adebayo [60:17]: "Devin Booker is a ton of credit for saying on the record too, that he has no desire to go anywhere and he wants to be a one franchise player too."

Trade and Draft Considerations:

The conversation touches on potential trades, including the elusive Kevin Durant and the implications of Ishbia's restrictive draft pick strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Snoop Dogg [55:13]: "You can't just throw more after more and fix the situation you're in. There's a salary cap and rules governing transactions."
• Bam Adebayo [58:35]: "They could be on their fourth coach in four years in about three or four weeks. These are all moves that, yes, he's incredibly aggressive."

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6. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, the hosts emphasize the importance of strategic team management and the ripple effects of ownership decisions on team performance. They encourage listeners to stay tuned for upcoming analyses and deeper dives into the evolving NBA landscape.

Tim Bontemps [60:38]: "Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to McMahon and Bons for joining us. Thank you for listening and watching Collective. We'll talk to you next week."

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Conclusion

This episode of "Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective" offers a comprehensive analysis of recent NBA games, team strategies, and the intricate dynamics of player management under new ownership. From the Thunder's rise and the Celtics' struggles to the Knicks' minutes dilemma and the Suns' aggressive rebuilding, the hosts provide insightful commentary enriched with notable quotes and expert opinions. Whether you're an avid NBA follower or a casual fan, this episode delivers valuable perspectives on the current state and future prospects of the league.

Transcript

[Snoop Dogg]

Today at T Mobile, I'm joined by a special co anchor.

[Tim Bontemps]

What up everybody?

[Snoop Dogg]

It's your boy, big Snoop.

[Tim Bontemps]

D O double G Snoop.

[Snoop Dogg]

Where can people go to find great deals? Head to T mobile.com and get four iPhone 16s with Apple Intelligence on us plus four lines for 25 bucks. That's quite a deal, Snoop. And when you switch to T Mobile you can save versus the other big guys. Comparable plans plus streaming.

[Tim Bontemps]

Respect.

[Snoop Dogg]

When we up out of here, see.

[Tim Bontemps]

How you can save on wireless and.

[Snoop Dogg]

Streaming versus the other big guys. @t mobile.com/ Apple Intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later. Foreign.

[Tim Bontemps]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining us from his family's homestead in Tenafly, New Jersey, Tim Bonteps.

[Snoop Dogg]

Hello everybody.

[Tim Bontemps]

I like that hockey stick he got back there. You do some cross checking as a youth.

[Snoop Dogg]

I do have a hockey. I did play a year of hockey when I was very small. There's VHS types of me just falling down and getting up when I was I think in kindergarten playing for a year.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's from the Canadian border. I mean, you have to kind of have to. Joining us from Houston, Texas, where he was at the Rockets game last night. Don't remember who they played. They're playing the Mavericks. Tomorrow is Bam McMahon.

[Bam Adebayo]

Howdy, partners. They play the Suns. You might recall the heavyweight wrestling match that broke out between oh, that's right. And Mason Plumley.

[Snoop Dogg]

Let me just talk a lot about the Suns later.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was very focused on the Thunder Celtics game last night, so I didn't see it, but I saw the. Who do you. Who gets in, you know, Olympic style Greco Roman wrestling. Does Mason Plumlee get the points for the takedown of Stephen Adams there? Because it looked like he had top position.

[Bam Adebayo]

He definitely ended up on top. Now, should the thing have continued, you know, without interference from others trying to break it up? I don't like Plumley's odds to emerge as the, as the victor. But hey, Stephen Adams was on his back. Plumlee was on top. You know, I, so now I gotta see Stephen Adams tomorrow. So I'm not, I don't want to come.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen. No, I got you.

[Snoop Dogg]

Those are two big fellas. But there's few fellows bigger than Stephen Adams.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was with, we were, I was, we were doing TV in la. I was with Kendrick Perkins and you know, Perkins has a special place in his heart for Stephen Adams because they, when Adams was a rookie, I mean, Adams took his job, quite frankly. Yeah, they drafted him to replace Perk in Oklahoma City. And Stephen Adams told me this. Amazing. I did a feature on Stephen Adams, like, after his rookie year. He told me this. One of my favorite stories, which was, like, the first day of practice, you know, Perk knew he. They had drafted his replacement. He was a lottery pick. And, you know, there was this. You know, he was obviously a big ox, but they didn't know anything about him yet. And so they're. They're guarding each other. Stephen Adams on the second team, Perks on the first team, and Perk catches the ball in the post and turns around and, like, slams Stephen Adams with an elbow at his chest, you know, we know now that the man is virtually immovable. But at the time, this was all, you know, Perk thought he was going to intimidate him, and Perk growled at him. I'm the only silverback, which only endeared Perk to Stephen Ads. I think Perk was trying to, you know, you know, establish dominance. But anyway, I was surprised to see Steve Nams be taken down by anybody. But that did happen in that game.

[Bam Adebayo]

I do remember that feature is a great feature. The most memorable line was when Steve Mabs said his hometown of New Zealand smelled like farts.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. Rotorua, New Zealand. It. There was sulfur in the water. And I believe I'm not a very good mimic, but I remember the quote very well. He's like, yeah, it smells like farts is what he said. I. I was like, wait a minute. Did you say it smells like farts? He's like, farts. Anyway, love Stephen Adams. He invited me to come to his camp in New Zealand, which I would love to do.

[Bam Adebayo]

Oh, that'd be interesting up on it.

[Snoop Dogg]

But only it's only 18 hours away.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a long trip. Okay, so we did have an interesting game on Wednesday night. And I know it's gonna be a couple of days old by the time this pod comes out, but I don't think we're doing it justice if we just let it say in the past, Bon Temps, you were there in Boston when Jalen Williams was ruled out. You know, the Celtics became the distinctive favorites for that game, and the Thunder never bent. Chad Holmgren had a great performance. Shea was awesome, as usual. And, you know, Jaylen Brown was not. So when you walked out of the TD garden on Wednesday night, what were you thinking?

[Snoop Dogg]

I thought the thing I've thought all season, which is that that will be the NBA finals, and that was the first time I've walked out of a game there in a long time thinking the team could beat Boston four out of seven games. I didn't feel that way when they beat Denver the other day. I didn't feel that way when the Cavs beat them. Certainly aren't going to lose to the Knicks, any of these other teams, but Oklahoma City is deep enough and good enough and can do enough things to beat the Celtics four times out of seven. Not sure they will if they face off in the Finals. I still think I'd pick Boston to win because I think they are deeper and more versatile overall than the Thunder. But as you watch this game play out like you said, even though Jalen Williams didn't play, I think this was a good reminder of the way Chet Holmgren was playing at the start of the season. No disrespect to Jalen Williams, who deserved to be an All Star this year and very well may make an all NBA team. Chad Holmgren is the second best player on the Thunder in my opinion. When he's right, I think you saw why in this game and certainly if you go back through and look at it, the Celtics missed a ton of wide open threes. They generated a lot of really good looks in the game. They scored it will in the paint on an awesome Thunder defense when they.

[Tim Bontemps]

Shot it in the paint, which was not very.

[Snoop Dogg]

Which they didn't shoot often, which we'll get to. So there's things you could certainly I don't think it's a sky is falling thing for the Celtics that they missed some open threes and ended up losing to the Thunder. But for an Oklahoma City team that is still maturing and has not been in a lot of big spots. You know, I know they were a little disappointed they weren't going to have their full team to see what they look like in that game last night and to go in there and play the way they did against the Celtics and take that game in the fourth quarter was incredibly impressive. And like I said, walking out of there, it just reinforced my belief that the Thunder are far and away the best team in the Western Conference and should be should be in the NBA Finals and should be playing Boston and McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

You were covering a game. I don't know how much you got to see of it. If I'm a Celtics fan. I'm just saying we shot 5 of 27 on threes in the second half. That's not going to happen often in a playoff series. I can see the Celtic fans. I mean, I'm respecting what you're saying by Times, but I can see the Celtic fans batting it away going, if we just have an average 3 point second half, we win the game. And Porzingis was out.

[Bam Adebayo]

I mean, Porzingis was out, but so, so was Jalen Williams.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was a gut check for the Thunder and they, and they dealt and they, and they delivered.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, I was covering a game, but I definitely had Celtics Thunder on the, on the tv.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's got this ability to look at like two or three screens at once. As you guys know. I can't do that.

[Bam Adebayo]

Like Bon Temps is good with it too.

[Tim Bontemps]

You're right.

[Bam Adebayo]

And look, this was a game like you had to keep an eye on this game. And I'm going to take a little victory lap here because Bond temps. When we were talking discussing the Thunder before and you talked about the need for Jalen Williams to prove he can be that legit number two option, you know, at the highest level of the playoffs for them to, to be able to get where they obviously want to go, I said I think Chet Holman also has to be considered as a candidate for that role. And yeah, I don't, you know, who's 2, who's 3, whatever, 2A, 2B, it doesn't matter. They've got two all star caliber guys in Shay Gilders Alexander supporting cast. Jalen Williams has been an all star. Chet Holmgren certainly started off the seat like Chet started off the season playing at an all NBA type of level. And you know, whether he's playing the five, whether he's playing the four, he's a seven footer who has perimeter skills. He's a seven footer who has the ability. Last night he shot three. Well, he has the ability to, especially if he's attacking closeouts, to, you know, to put the ball on the floor and to, you know, make plays. He's a good passer. That Chet's performance because you know he's still pretty early coming back off of obviously a very serious injury. Chet's performance in that game to me was by far the most important thing. If they get that guy come playoff time, Thunder are going to be extraordinarily difficult to beat.

[Snoop Dogg]

They're still going to need another guy on the perimeter to make plays and create shots. That's not really what Chet does. Chet was awesome in the game. They're going to need Jalen Williams to play a lot better than he did in the playoffs last year. But look, a huge part of that game last night was when Jalen Williams when with him not there and in the non Shape minutes, which have been a huge problem for the Thunder, at least by Thunder standards. They don't have a lot of problems. They were plus three in those nine minutes and that was a huge part of why they won the game, I.

[Bam Adebayo]

Will say, because I was looking up on off stuff just thinking about MVP stuff the other day and they are like, I mean, it's an insane number with Shea on the floor. For a while they were about even with Shay off the floor. When I looked the other day, their, their net rating was plus 2.9, which is, you know, it's. It's pretty good. It's like plus 17 or 18 with them on the floor.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yeah, it's a minor problem, but Certainly.

[Bam Adebayo]

A minor plus 2.9 with Jalen Williams almost always being on the floor in those minutes. So the fact they're able to win those minutes without Shea and without their other all Star is, you know, honestly impressive and really surprising given the competition.

[Tim Bontemps]

So the Thunder started small in this game. They started a lineup they hadn't played. I think maybe they've played it, but they hadn't started it.

[Snoop Dogg]

I don't think they played it all. Oh, sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying there. You're talking about the second quarter lineup. Sorry.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, well, well, you can delight me on that because I didn't really realize that.

[Snoop Dogg]

Well, I think the lineup they used at the start of the second and fourth quarters with the two bigs and then I want to. It was Isaiah, Joe might have been Wiggins and another guy. I don't think they played it in any game all season. And then they played it in both of those stints and it did just fine. For.

[Tim Bontemps]

As a separate topic, Mark Dagenault has said, you know, they've got an 11 or 12 game lead. He has said that if. That they have to experiment with lineups and stuff. He actually used. He had a, he had a good quote that a league executive pointed out to me. He said it would be irresponsible for us to not know what we. All the limitations and, and, and pathways. He didn't use those exact quote, but it was the, the quote.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yeah, irresponsible gave me a similar one last year. That's. They've. They've 100. That's 100% the way they've approached these regular seasons. And by the way, the Celtics have done the same thing under Joe Missoula. These two coaches all season are tinkering and experimenting and trying to. Atkinson and Kenny Akatena has been too. Like now you have the ability to do that when you're the position these teams are in. But they're. They're thinking ahead to what this, what May and June are going to look like all year.

[Tim Bontemps]

They started small. Alex Caruso was also out of this game. He was under the weather. So the Thunder were missing two perimeter players, but they still started small.

[Bam Adebayo]

They started with Wallace, Case and Wallace.

[Tim Bontemps]

And then they didn't play the Arkansas. Jalen Williams, the big man, Jalen Williams. They went with Kendrick Williams, who was Ken Rich Williams, who's more of an undersized big. So they kind of played small. Boston. The thing about it is the, the challenge when Oklahoma City plays Boston is Oklahoma City. The basis of their team is the two bigs. Like they prioritize getting Isaiah Hartenstein because they saw this way they could play with two bigs. I'm not sure that two bigs works against Boston because of how they stress you out by looking and hunting switches and looking for threes. In fact, the Thunder, the number one team in the league against the three. They're not one defense, so the number one in almost every defensive metric, top three, and almost everyone. But when Chad Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein have been out there together, they actually had been giving up almost 40% on threes.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, their defensive numbers, actually, it's still tiny sample size, but their defensive numbers with that duo have not been impressive. Their offensive numbers have been okay, so they start small.

[Tim Bontemps]

And the Celtics take a record number of threes in the first half. Literally a record. They took 33, I think, threes in the first half. They did not challenge 36. Jesus. They did not challenge that, you know, in the paint, when they win the paint, they were successful, but they didn't really challenge it. So I don't know what that means going forward, but I think it's worth noting that that's how the game played out. And look at the end of the day, I think you said this in our group chat, Bon Thames. It's not like Chad Holmgren and Jalen Brown were going head to head. But the Celtics best player shot 5 of 15, fouled out with four minutes to play. And the Thunder's second best player had one of his best games since he came back from injury.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yeah, no, I mean, that was the story of the game. Jason Tatum was awesome. Chico Salander was awesome, Chad Holmgren was awesome. And Jalen Brown was awful. Jalen Brown admitted after the game that the physicality the Thunder play with gave him some trouble and he didn't get to the line. He got all out of sorts, you know, missed some open threes. Drew Holiday's finger I think clearly was bothering him. He's got this messed up finger. He's got a sleeve on it. It clearly he didn't look comfortable playing with it yesterday. I think that will improve in time. And I think just in general, you know, these two teams are very similar in that they pretty religiously live and die by the way they play and they believe in what they're doing and if the shot quality works against them, they'll just say we got unlucky today. And if you go back to the game Monday, they play Denver. Denver shot 20% over their expected field goal percentage on threes in that game. Shot a billion percent from 3. Jamal Murray was awesome. They run away and win that second night of the back to back. Last night in the second half the Celtics went 4 for 20 from 3 point range on catch and shoot shots and they were expected to make over 40% of them. So the one game to the next, the shooting luck went in the opposite direction and not surprisingly, the Thunder won get one game and lost one game. And that's Dagger said after the game in the first quarter when Boston's getting up 22 or 24 shots from three and went 9 for 22. He just kept telling the team, look, we got to stick to what we do. We know we just had this rough game on Monday. It's going to come back the other day, other way. The rest of the game. The Celtics I think were 11 for 43 from 3 or 11.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, but I mean even after that hot shooting, Oklahoma City never lost touch and then they were ahead at the half. Right. It wasn't a hard played.

[Snoop Dogg]

Great.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah. You know, I, I do think that the dual bigs or how to employ having both heart and sound and Holmgren is a, is a pretty fascinating thing for the Thunder. And you know, they planned on kind of having the full season to tinker and experiment and have a, a large sample size of basically study time to evaluate. And they've had, they, you know, they've had to microwave it because until right after the trade deadline those guys did not play a single second together. But I don't think that they're going to go into the playoffs and saying, hey, this is our starting lineup, we're starting both bigs or we're, you know, we're starting.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't think anything with that team will be set in stuff because I.

[Bam Adebayo]

Think it's going to be very, it's going to be.

[Snoop Dogg]

Out there and he's number two. He's going to be cooking.

[Tim Bontemps]

Number two is going to score 30. I'm prepared.

[Bam Adebayo]

Listen, but seriously, the three guys will start for him for sure. And it's, you know, it's Shea, it's J Dub, and it's Chet Holmgren and then the other two. It could be series to series, it could be game to game, it could be half to half. You know, we've seen them operate like that and. And, you know, Bon Temps. You said you think Boston's a deeper team. I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure because they've got a lot of. Can the Thunder have a lot?

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it depends.

[Snoop Dogg]

Deeper. I mean, deeper at the top. The Celtics have the best. Still have the best six man, okay. In the league. And one to eight. The Celtics are. When they're healthy, they're. I think they're better than anybody. The Thunder obviously go 1 to 12 or 13 or whatever. But when you're talking about playoff rotations, the Celtics won the title last year, and, you know, their eight guys are rock solid in those games.

[Tim Bontemps]

Over the course of a playoff series, Peyton Pritchard might ebb and flow, and Isaiah Joe might ebb and flow. Like, it's not definitive, but they've got like.

[Bam Adebayo]

There are like eight guys who I could realistically see starting playoff games for the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's quite a few teams that don't have five guys they want to start right. And it's about.

[Bam Adebayo]

It's about matchups. It's about, you know, optionality. And when they have both their bigs healthy, they're always going to have one really good rim protector on the floor, sometimes two. And again, it's just like. I think that the starting lineups could vary significantly depending on a lot of factors. You know, primarily matchups, but also just kind of the flow of series and games and all those kind of things.

[Snoop Dogg]

The one other thing I want to point out about this game that was interesting. We've talked a lot about the Thunder free throws on the spot throughout the year. Thundershot, 35 free throws in the game now, 6, 8, 10 of them were late when the game was basically over. But still, there was a very significant free throw disparity in their favor in this game. And I think Jalen Brown's quote about the physicality was correct and that the Thunder took the physicality to the Celtics and gave them problems. And I think, in general, to use football terms, we've talked about this with the way The Thunder play a little bit in the past. The Thunder play like the Legion of Boom Seahawks defense where they're fouling on every possession. Which again is why I don't really care for the we're getting out free throw it all the time thing because they have one guy who generates a ton of free throws. The rest of the guys are catch and shoot players.

[Tim Bontemps]

Shay leads the league in free throws.

[Bam Adebayo]

And J Dub has really made an emphasis to try to develop that part of his game this year.

[Snoop Dogg]

Correct. But my point is they're fouling all the time and it's, it's depending on how the game is called. Matters a lot to the way they play.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey, who was, who was the crew chief in that game?

[Snoop Dogg]

Tyler Ford. They were letting them know that they were letting them go last night and that that's a credit.

[Bam Adebayo]

He hand out any tease?

[Snoop Dogg]

He did not. Though one of the other refs did give Jason Tatum a technical after he was very unhappy about a very obvious missed call, which I thought was not a great move.

[Bam Adebayo]

But hey, did Mark D comment on the free throw disparity post game he brings?

[Snoop Dogg]

He did not. Believe it or not, he wasn't asked about it nor did he comment.

[Tim Bontemps]

I will say this. The Celtics and the Celtics and the Thunder are bottom three in the league in free throws per game by themselves.

[Snoop Dogg]

Well, this is what I wanted to get to. Just real quick, the Celtics, he said.

[Bam Adebayo]

And so he's mid sentence. Let him finish. I want him to hear it.

[Snoop Dogg]

He had a good point and then you interrupted me.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, I know, but that's okay. We can't interrupt Wendy.

[Snoop Dogg]

The Celtics play like the Kurt warmer Kurt Warner Marshall Rams, the greatest show on turf team. When they get out in their in free space and they're hitting threes and they're moving the ball, they are the best team on the planet. If you can get them out of rhythm and be physical with them and get them off their game, you can get them out of sync. And that's often when the Celtics get sideways, when they start playing isolation ball, when they don't move the ball as well, when the game bogs down. And when you saw how this game played out, yes, the Celtics missed a lot of open shots, but that if these two teams do play in the finals, that physicality matchup from game to game and whether Boston can keep its cool and not allow that to bother them is going to be a thing to watch because the Thunder are going to play the same way every game.

[Tim Bontemps]

How many more football references is bont up is going to make they play defense like the Steel Curtain, like the Purple People Eaters.

[Bam Adebayo]

Here's the thing. Nobody wants to hear football references in Oklahoma right now because after the fall season for the old Sooners, man, it wasn't any boomer sooner. It was. It was bummer sooner. I can tell you that.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was much better for the Pokes, as they call it. Down. All right. There was a very fascinating game, actually more fascinating in terms of competitiveness than that Thunder Celtics game, which even again, even though it's going to be two days ago, I don't want to let it pass. It was in Portland. There were 43 lead changes.

[Bam Adebayo]

43. So did you see the stat on this? Go on. But it was 43.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, well, was. Well, it was 43 lead changes and Mikhail Bridges had a double bang. Mike Breen moment buzzer beater three to win the game. It's one of the games of the year in the NBA.

[Snoop Dogg]

Before the game, I was texting with Mike Breen because I was expecting to be at some Thunder.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm impressed.

[Snoop Dogg]

And I said, I'm sorry not to see you here today. And he was like, yeah, you know, I'm in Portland for this Knicks game. Sure. It's going to be epic. So I texted him after the game. I said, sir, it was a double bang game. I would say it was pretty epic.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. What was that? McMahon.

[Bam Adebayo]

So this from Jonathan, I hope I'm pronouncing last name right. Macri, One of the guys on Nick's Film School, which I'll be appearing on.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's a former ESPN employee. He's one of our former coworkers.

[Bam Adebayo]

So Knicks Blazers featured 42 lead changes. That's the second most since the NBA began tracking play by play data in 1996. The game with the most Nets versus Hawks in 2023, it had 43 lead changes and ended.

[Tim Bontemps]

Guess how I know the answer. So I won't.

[Bam Adebayo]

I won't guess on a game winner by Ma Bridges.

[Tim Bontemps]

Did Ryan Ruko or Iron Eagle make a great did like was there, like, you know, connects? That's our guy Ruko. We don't know.

[Bam Adebayo]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Damian Lillard]

In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for, like Damien Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless. In a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself, he is accomplished but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.

[Ann]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report I was never.

[Snoop Dogg]

Really a runner the way I see running is a gift, especially when you have stage four cancer. I'm Ann. I'm running the Boston Marathon presented by bank of America. I run for Dana Farber Cancer Institute to give people like me a chance to thrive in life even with cancer.

[Ann]

Join bank of America in helping Ann's cause.

[Tim Bontemps]

Give if you can@b of a.com supportann what would you like the power to do?

[Ann]

References to charitable organizations is not endorsement.

[Tim Bontemps]

By bank of America Corporation Copyright 2025. We'll have to go back and look. Okay. That game was fascinating. Bridges had 33 points and I'm sure.

[Bam Adebayo]

He was how many minutes?

[Tim Bontemps]

41. Oh, I'm sure he was very glad that he had a great game because we had an interesting moment in the Knicks universe yesterday when after shoot around Mikhail Bridges on the record stepped to Tom Thibodeau and his heavy minutes of the Nick Starters quote and this is a guy who has played 539 I believe consecutive games to start his career. He, he's. I just did this for a story that's running on unbreakable records this week. He needs to do it for eight and a half more seasons to catch A.C. green for the most consecutive games. He had over 1100.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, they got a banner up I believe I'm pretty sure there's a banner up in the American Airlines center raptors for always chilling green.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it was. It's one of those, it's one of those records that I think will never be broken. But you know, Bridges is, you know, almost halfway there. All right. Quote sometimes it's not fun on the body. He told I I saw it from Steph Bondi of the New the New York Post. So I'm going to give Steph Bondi the credit.

[Bam Adebayo]

It was one of those guys from that media cesspool. It is New York.

[Tim Bontemps]

We love stuff.

[Snoop Dogg]

It was Bondi.

[Tim Bontemps]

We've got a lot of good guys on this team that can take away minutes, which helps the defense, it helps the offense, it helps tired bodies being out there and giving up all these points. It just helps keeping fresh bodies out there. Okay. This is a guy who never complains about anything, plays through everything and is, you know, the. One of the reasons why they traded all those picks for him was because he plays every day and is low maintenance for him to die. And I, I have to assume. I don't know, I have to assume that this wasn't a flippant comment. I know Mikhail not to be a flippant guy. He's a thoughtful guy. I suspect. I don't know. This is not a report. I suspect he was thinking about saying this for a while now. Tom Thibodeau was caught off guard by these comments.

[Snoop Dogg]

And I wouldn't say he was caught up. I wouldn't say he was caught off guard. I would, I would say he. I would say he flat out argued that the conversation that Mikhail said happened, happened.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Tom Thibodeau, we never had a conversation about it.

[Snoop Dogg]

Well, yeah, I just. I caught off guard. I mean, like he was. I mean he had all. My point is he heard it was in the morning and that this other thing was seven hours later. He just flat when he heard the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Quotes that Mikhail had said on the record. I'm not. I'm not sure he expected that to happen. I don't know how you want to frame it.

[Snoop Dogg]

I'm had his answer ready. I'll put it that way.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. Well, he set up the quote.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

We've never had a conversation about it. You can take it however you want. I take it as wasn't expecting that to be said by Mikhail Bridges. The facts are the facts. When you look at our team and the way it works, Jalen Brunson plays 35 minutes and I think he's 20th or 21st in average minutes played. Carl Towns, who is a primary scorer, plays less than Jalen. He's like 25, 25th in the league in average minutes. Now in average minutes that may be true. In total minutes, The Knicks have four guys like in the top four, 20.

[Snoop Dogg]

Tom is including this repeatedly.

[Bam Adebayo]

They also have number one. Who's the guy who's saying these things? Mikal Bridges, number one. By over a thousand or, I'm sorry, over 100 minutes. And number two is Josh Hart. So they've got one and two.

[Snoop Dogg]

Well, but this is, this has been Tibbs thing over and over again, which is that your wing players are supposed to play really heavy minutes. I'm going. This is his explanation, not mine. I'm so what he has said over and over again, your point guard and your center, like your primary scorers, I'm not going to play them 47 minutes a game. But these wing players are playing against the elite players on the other team. They have to play heavy minutes. They prepare to play heavy minutes. They're going to play heavy minutes. That is his, that is his explanation for the ongoing discussion about minutes, which has happened for years, in which he gets annoyed about.

[Bam Adebayo]

But Brunson is going to come up in the league in total minutes and an OBI, despite missing some games, is 16th. Like, listen. And nobody is on the run for the minutes Police like Tibbs over the years. Like, we get going back to Chicago and obviously now, you know, last year, this team. What's the correlation between all the Knicks injury issues in the playoffs versus, you know, the, the minutes? I don't, you know, you, you can't prove it, but, like, the minutes are always a concern with Tibbs teams. It just is what it is. And this.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, look, it's one thing for people in the media or other coaches or other executives or even people within the Knicks to talk about and speculate. This is a player saying, I'm being tired out.

[Bam Adebayo]

What if Tib says, hey, if, if he needs a night off, we'll give him that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, anyway, I said he played 41 minutes. He did, but it was an overtime game, so, you know, he'd added some minutes.

[Snoop Dogg]

And the other thing I'll say, because I, I am, I. This whole discussion is just at this point, it's been going on for years. I'm just sort of tired of it to begin with. Obviously, this is, I am fatigued by it. The one thing that, you know, Tibbs defenders have always said in his defense on these things, and which I think is fair to point out, like, you could keep saying that the total minutes are high. It's also because all these guys are playing all the time, and for the most part, he's got a pretty good track record of guys staying healthy and playing while playing minutes. Now, again, like, yes, Jalen Brunson broke his wrist in a playoff game last year. I don't think that was because he played a lot of minutes. Yeah, I understand. I landed on. Yeah, landed on somebody's foot and sprained his ankle like.

[Bam Adebayo]

Right. That's not a minutes issue now. No soft tissue stuff, you know.

[Snoop Dogg]

Sure. My point is just that you look at like OG Anunoby has typically missed a ton of time. He's playing more games than he's basically ever played in his career. Josh Hart's only missed a couple games. Brunson and Towns have not had any injury issues. And like consistently over time guys have been able to play a lot of games and therefore play a lot of minutes playing for him. So there's at least, I think it's fair to say some method to his madness when it comes to how he proportions these minutes out. But this is obviously a different situation and interesting because you have Mikhail Bridges saying, yeah, I talked to this guy about this and told him he needs to play the bench more. And Tom then saying, no, we didn't.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, and I would love. And it won't happen, but I would love to get Casey Smith's thoughts on this. Casey Smith, who's running their, you know, their medical and performance group now ran the Mavericks for 20 years before shockingly getting the heave ho before last season. I would love to get his thoughts on it, which won't happen because he's not going to be talking. He's not going to be discussing this issue with the media.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it was interesting. Keep an eye on that one and we'll see. Now Ian Begley, who's our former colleague, he had ESPN and he now covers the Knicks really well for the, for sny. He reported today that Tibbs and Bridges had a clearing the air.

[Bam Adebayo]

Oh, oh. So you know, who knows those high maintenance Villanova guys.

[Tim Bontemps]

McMahon has a really good story out today, but before we move on to it, I do want to take note. Turned out that Wednesday was actually like a pretty interesting day in the NBA.

[Bam Adebayo]

Oh no, that was clever. Go on.

[Snoop Dogg]

Well, you didn't even mean to do that one. That was a. That was.

[Tim Bontemps]

I actually wasn't getting that. The Jazz got fined a hundred thousand dollars for basically being convicted of tanking.

[Bam Adebayo]

By, by sitting Larry Markin on a regular basis when he's not hurt.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the best part of that was so they sat marketing for nine games. I don't even. There was like two or three different maladies that they listed. They lost eight of the nine games.

[Snoop Dogg]

Especially losing to the Sixers and the.

[Bam Adebayo]

Raptors both and the Wizards.

[Tim Bontemps]

So the league find him $100,000 basically for sitting a game against the Wizards. But then it was other. Including other games they've been openly tanking. Openly brazenly.

[Snoop Dogg]

As have several other teams, including the two teams I just mentioned.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hold on. So they announced the fine, which is a pretty stiff fine for a player participation policy. Basically you're convicted of tanking. And the Jazz responded by immediately upgrading market into available. I think they put out a new.

[Bam Adebayo]

Injury report market and Clarkson and I think another guy.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right, but Markkanen is the guy who is subject to the player participation policy. All right, so that interesting happened. But in other tanking measures, I have to take a moment to highlight the game that took place in Toronto where you know, we have talked. What did you brand the Sixers? Your recent nickname?

[Bam Adebayo]

The Top Sixers.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Top Sixers. They have to keep being. They have to finish the top six pick to keep it. Otherwise it goes to Oklahoma City.

[Snoop Dogg]

By the way, they're gonna hugely important.

[Tim Bontemps]

Game in that fight against the Raptors. The Raptors are one of the teams ahead of them that were catchable and the Raptors are doing enormous efforts to tank but they keep winning because they're, they're playing an easy schedule and they.

[Snoop Dogg]

Have the easiest schedule like we talked about in the other league by a country mile including this current five game stream stretch with two games against Washington which they managed to lose. One of them by Jamal Shed having the ball on the easiest part of his finger. So it did. A game winning buzzer beater didn't count. One of the few times that a game winning buzzer beating game waved off as a win for the team that had it waved off. And two games against Utah, plus this game against the Sixers.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, now let me just tell you so okay, so last night Brandon Ingram has the worst sprained ankle in the history of sprained ankles. He hasn't played in months. Apparently he's never going to play again.

[Bam Adebayo]

Not until next year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Emmanuel Quickley was out last night. I'm not. Did they. I think they called that rest.

[Snoop Dogg]

I think they, they've been, they've been resting the max. I think you can rest two guys a game. They've been resting two guys a game during this.

[Tim Bontemps]

Gotti Barnes out. He had some malady.

[Snoop Dogg]

So some issue. Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is the starting lineup and I just want to say I am not criticizing these players and I am not implying that these players were not trying to win.

[Snoop Dogg]

Oh listen, if you, if you saw the celebration I went before that shot got waved off. When Jamal Shed made that shot the other day, they, they were trying to win that game.

[Bam Adebayo]

Players don't tank, especially guys who are playing like these guys are playing to stay in the league.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here is the the team that Toronto started against Philly on Wednesday night. Jamal Shed, who was your second round draft pick? Good player, second round draft pick, rookie starter. He didn't even play that many minutes. I'm not sure if he got hurt. The point is he started. Okay. AJ Lawson ended up playing 35 minutes. He didn't start but he's a two way player. Okay, so they played AJ Lawson 35 minutes off the bench. Orlando Robinson they just signed. I'm not sure if he's on a 10 day contract, but he just was signed. He played 35 minutes. But here's the starting starting lineup. Jamal Shed. Okay. Jameson Battle, who I believe was a two way player that they recently upgraded to, to a regular roster player.

[Bam Adebayo]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

He started and played 39 minutes. Went 4 or 15, but Arco just kept him out there. Colin Castleton, who is I believe in his second or third year in the league.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yeah, he's a, he's a two way guy. Robinson and Battle.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, he's not even a two way guy. He was, he's on a 10 day contract.

[Snoop Dogg]

I was going to say Robinson and Battle both have been given full contracts in the last few weeks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. Castleton is on a 10 day contract. Jared Roden, who is a two way player.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Who had 25 points. They also started. Jakob Poodle, he only played 17 minutes. You know, can't go crazy here. So they played eight guys. Garrett Temple was one of them. Who's I think the second oldest or third oldest player in the league.

[Bam Adebayo]

Shout out for Garrett Temple, man. Still, still in the league.

[Snoop Dogg]

One of the best dudes in the league too.

[Tim Bontemps]

He played hard. And then a bunch of guys who were either two way players just off two way contracts, 10 day guys or rookies like it was, they were trying real hard and they won by double digits because The Sixers had $150 million of salary.

[Bam Adebayo]

Oh my God.

[Snoop Dogg]

Well, it's not just that because the Sixers were already starting to fall apart when all those guys were playing. The Sixers have lost 16 of their last 19 games which is going to put them in position I think where they're going to finish with the fifth worst record, which is a remarkable thing. And it would only be the Sixers luck slash karma maybe for them to get to the fifth worst record and then give up the seventh pick to the Thunder. It feels like that is the most gut punch way for this to go for the Philly.

[Bam Adebayo]

That's right.

[Snoop Dogg]

But they have won two games since February 1st. One was the Quentin Grimes 45 or 44 point game against the warriors where they won by a point or two at home a couple nights a couple weeks ago on abc. And the other was Sunday against the Jazz where the Jazz are just like the kings of the tank at this point. Yeah, they're, they're losing. And if Kyle Filipowski hadn't been in foul trouble that whole game, I think Utah might have won that game because every time he was on the court they were good.

[Tim Bontemps]

I am not going to talk about some of the starting lineups that the Jazz have started.

[Bam Adebayo]

And the Jazz at this point the last two years have been aggressively tanking. The difference is they've done it. They. If you're going to do it at the end of the year, you got to like, you got to be a full, in full season commitment. This is the first full season commitment. But listen, when the Mavericks did the egregious tanking in the final week a couple years ago, you know, the, the Kyrie trade year when they had the top 10 protected pick they had to keep and turn into Derek Lively. I called somebody with a league office and I'm kind of inquiring like, hey, you know, is, is there going to be any action on this? And they were like, why haven't you called me on the Jazz? I said, well, remind me, when Ryan Smith publicly to admitted tanking in recent years and got a $600,000 fine, is.

[Tim Bontemps]

That what it was? I couldn't remember.

[Bam Adebayo]

No, that was when I'm talking about Cuban when he went on.

[Tim Bontemps]

I didn't remember. I didn't remember that the fine was that.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yeah, because he, because he got the fine for saying the quiet part out loud. And that's what they were doing now, the Nets last year when they sat all the guys against Milwaukee in that infant infamous game that tank their season right after Christmas, they also got $100,000 fine. I think that's the standard fine when you violate ppp, which is part of what they do to try to get you to not violate it in the first place. But look, this is going to be something to watch over the next month because there's a lot of teams in the league that really want to get Cooper flag these teams at the bottom. You've got the Sixers who are trying to keep their pick, which is always the most egregious example of this tank and stuff that happens. And you know, Toronto is certainly desperately trying to get one more high pick. They want to flip this thing around quickly. They made the Ingram trade. They've got. Quickly, they've got Scotty Barnes. They had, you know, Dylan Harper, Cooper Flagg or somebody to that. They feel like they can jump right back up again. I think this is just going to get worse over the next few weeks and it's going to be interesting to see how the league reacts to it. And the fact that we're already having them find teams a month before the end of the regular season for openly doing this, I think it's just a sign of things to come.

[Bam Adebayo]

And by the way, the Pelicans have, have put some wins together because primarily, I mean almost solely.

[Tim Bontemps]

But not that many.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, no, but they, they're, they've bumped, they've bumped themselves up to four and it's because Zion is playing unbelievable basketball. The guy has been awesome.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like he's averaging 25 points since he came back from the hamstring. 25, 7 and 5, which are good but you have to. Yeah, he's only playing 28 minutes.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, I remember Bobby and I wrote a story just as he was about to come back and kind of like what's coming with Zion? Like you know, what the trade value and, and market might be for him. And you know, somebody told us then like the goal is to ramp him up and restore his value, whether that's for the Pelicans or another team. And he's, he's handling the first part to his credit. He is absolutely handling the first.

[Tim Bontemps]

I still don't know how much they could actually get form based on I tell you his injury history.

[Bam Adebayo]

I there are some teams that would have significant interest. More hoop Collective podcast after this I.

[Bradley Beal]

Can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.

[Snoop Dogg]

Will that be cash or credit? Credit. 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting.

[Ann]

So you can do you get [e-mail].

[Bam Adebayo]

Compatible with select apps.

[Snoop Dogg]

Requires Google Gemini account.

[Bam Adebayo]

Results may vary based on input.

[Snoop Dogg]

Check responses for accuracy.

[Bradley Beal]

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[Ann]

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[Tim Bontemps]

Well, that's another topic for another day. I want to talk about the story that you published. You know, you did a couple of podcasts last week when we kept saying you were in Phoenix and here was why. You were putting together a story. That's a whopper.

[Snoop Dogg]

If you haven't read this story yet, pause the pod and go read the story. Because it's an awesome story and there's a ton of incredible quotes in it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, that's why the reason the story.

[Bam Adebayo]

I thought it was because it was extremely well written.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it's just it was an awesome story, period. Very average writing.

[Snoop Dogg]

There's a ton of incredible quotes in it.

[Bam Adebayo]

There's some several multi syllable words in there.

[Tim Bontemps]

But yes, there was alliteration. I saw there was some beautiful alliteration in there. It's challenging to get quotes that are I guess maybe not critical but, but here's the thing.

[Bam Adebayo]

It's not challenging to get great quotes from Matt Ishby. You just have to get him to agree to talk. And the guy is a fascinating. He.

[Snoop Dogg]

I mean no, he is 100.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, but you had good quotes from that ISHB. You had good quotes from Bradley Beal, you had good quotes from Devin Booker, you had good quotes from other sons people. I'm just going to toss you the ball and, and, and talk about this story.

[Bam Adebayo]

I mean look, the Suns are a team that as you're talking to people around the league, let's be honest, there's a lot of shade being thrown at them. And Matt Ishbia is an extraordinarily big rash billionaire who, who bought this team and it's been just, you know, all kinds of big splashes. They're the most expensive team in NBA history. You know, they don't control their own draft picks now through the 2031 draft. And as of right now, they are sitting in 11th place two and a half games out of the final play in, in the Western Conference in a season in which leading up to the trade deadline, they certainly engaged in discussions about dealing Kevin Durant. You know, despite the fact that Bradley Beal still has his no trade clause, he was in trade discussions for most of the first half of the season. And the, the hole is nowhere near what the sum of the parts are. And you know, Ishpia is like, hey, also like HP, you know, the, the whole 26 of 29 thing that he said at the end of last season, 26, 29 teams would trade places. I mean, I asked him straight up, like, do you regret. Regret that? Do you still believe that? And he's like, not based on the results this season, but the Ishbia, you know, the, the people working for him in Phoenix, there's a lot. They don't think they're as far away as the standings indicate. And you know, I'm just making that what you will. They're all, they're not like giving up on the season, but of course this is an extraordinarily disappointing season. They're kind of hoping that miraculously clicks and they get it together just in the nick of time. But we understand where and they understand where this season is right now. It is a colossal failure to this point. And essentially this summer, everything is on the table for Phoenix with the exception of a Devin Booker trade. Devin Booker, to borrow a Damian lillard term, is 10 toes down in Phoenix. He really takes immense pride on being a one franchise guy. I'm not saying he's definitely spending his entire career in Phoenix. I'm saying he definitely wants to spend his entire career in Phoenix and he's going to. He's determined to see this thing through and get this thing back on the right side and they are determined to do that with him.

[Tim Bontemps]

You asked, you were asking HP this exact question and he cut you off.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, and I listen. They're like, you talk to people around the league pontimps you and like, there are definitely people around the league who are like, hey, you should absolutely listen to what the Rockets have to have to offer for Devin Booker because the Rockets have what looks like is going to be a lottery pick from the Suns this year, and then they've got 27 and 29 as well. And so if, if the Suns want to rebuild, then they need to make a trade with the Houston Rockets and get the draft capital back. But Ishp, I don't have the. The exact quote right in front of me, but it started off with something.

[Snoop Dogg]

I got it right here.

[Bam Adebayo]

Okay. The like to rebuild thing.

[Snoop Dogg]

Oh, that one. Yes. I thought this. This was. I thought there were two quotes that I thought summed up the entire Mattish BE ownership experience. I thought this was one of them. It's. This is. This is about his thoughts on rebuilding. Quote. It surprises me that other people, other fans, they actually like the rebuilding process. Said and McMahon had an emphasis on like. And.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, no, he said they actually like the rebuild process. He almost spit.

[Snoop Dogg]

He said process, like, oh, let's rebuild it. Are you crazy? You think I'm going to go for seven years and try to get there? You enjoy the 20, 30 draft picks that we have holding. I want to try to see. I want to try to see the game today. I want us to win today. And we're going to try. Although let's say this doesn't work. Guess what? Maybe next year we won't be as good, but we're going to try again. The next opportunity we have, we're going to try and compete and it might work. We will win championships here in Phoenix. It might not be this year, but I promise you we're going to do it. And that's what we're focused on.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah. And look, as somebody, as somebody close to Ispia told me there is no trust the process with Mattish, Matt Ishbia and, and he is like, dude, there's no patient rebuild here. It is going to be. I don't give a damn what it cost. We are all in every single season, put on the gas, trying to be as good as possible every single day year. We're going to win championships. And I think a lot of other people around the league would be like, that's counterproductive. If you don't have patience, you're not going to be able to put yourself in a position to win championships. But you know Ishbia, you know, the, the people in the front office there, the thing they push back on. There's a couple things they push back on. One, this idea that, that it's just Ishpia saying, do this, do this, do this. He's responsible for the philosophy all in and he's responsible for the financing. But as he said, do you think I'm studying film? I'm not studying film. They tell me they like Ryan Dunn. I say, how can we get him? So they kind of the picture of new owner syndrome, dictator, that portrayal, they definitely push back on that. And then the Other thing they push back on is that they say, hey, we have a lot of options. And I think a lot of people look at the, the draft capital that.

[Snoop Dogg]

They'Ve given, tell me what the options.

[Bam Adebayo]

Are, second open restrictions and all that and say, no, you, you really don't know. So I mean, hey, one option that they've explored before the deadline and certainly they are expected to explore again this summer is trading Kevin Durant.

[Snoop Dogg]

Now that's one option. Now, second option.

[Bam Adebayo]

Now, Kevin Durant is going to have significant influence on potential destinations going in the last year of his contract eligible for a two year extension. You know, the Beal thing, obviously they have to work with Billy.

[Snoop Dogg]

They have no, they have no options on that.

[Bam Adebayo]

He has a no.

[Snoop Dogg]

He has a full no trade clause. That isn't an option.

[Bam Adebayo]

You know, they have the, from. They gave up the 2031 pick to Utah. That's probably going to be three first from Cleveland. So they've got, they gave up one of those to get off.

[Snoop Dogg]

They have two, they have, they have three extraordinarily low value draft picks.

[Tim Bontemps]

They already gave away one of them to two.

[Bam Adebayo]

Now. That's right.

[Snoop Dogg]

Now they have two.

[Bam Adebayo]

Again, we get like, the facts are laid out. It's the most expensive team in NBA history. Unless they get things right soon, they're not even going to make the play in. And you know, they have major, major handcuffs in terms of blowing by the second apron. The roster building restrictions that come with that, the future draft capital. I'm just telling you, Matt Ishbia and the people that are working for him, the people that are in Phoenix on a daily basis, they feel like they can, to use Ishbia's term, pivot and reload. It's not rebuild, pivot and reload around Devin Booker.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. You also have very interesting comments in this story from Bradley Beal. Again, the best parts of this story are not McMahon's words. They're the primary sources words. Beal, I thought he had two interesting things to say here, McMahon. But I will let you who did the conversation talk about what Beal said again.

[Bam Adebayo]

Do you have the quotes in front of you?

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, well, my favorite Beal quote is he's talking about how he feels like I have a great job, you know, but I'm a human being. And he's like, we, you know, I enjoy the game. The game is fun. I try not to let nobody take the joy out of the game from me, but it's hard. We're all human beings. We all, we have every right to shut down. We have every right to question what's going on. We have every right to say, why me? But I feel like that just drags you down a little bit more than you need. And this is my favorite part. I'm still playing in the NBA. I still have the best job in the world. I still have my no trade clause. So I'm smiling every day. That was one quote. He talked more about the label, about that he's never won anything, but I'm going to leave that alone. The key thing here, and I mean this is. You tell me whether you think this is newsworthy or not. You were asking him about the no trade clause, which he apparently smiles every day that he has. And you referenced that he was really not interested in waving it at all. The idea of being traded mid season.

[Bam Adebayo]

No. Yeah. He did not want to be. Just. And, and just like Kevin Durant spelled out, I believe, when he talked to Malik and again when he went on the Draymond Green show, like he didn't want to have his life uprooted in the middle of a season and be thrown into that and all that. And, and Beal certainly didn't, you know, Beal, a husband, a father, young kids. He didn't want to uproot his entire family in the middle of the season. But he said it is a different deal in the summer. Everything is kind of more laid out on the table. You got more options. And he's not saying, I'm out of here this summer, but he's saying, listen.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I mean, he's saying something obvious, but he's on the record. It's a different deal in the summer.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah, he's saying, look, this summer, like, yeah, you know, he will. He's going to consider what some potential scenarios are, whether there's something that, that makes sense for them. And look that like this team, the 10 seed in the west, like the Mavericks, are literally scrambling to put together enough bodies to. To have the NBA minimum for games right now. And the sun's just can't make up any ground. There's still two and a half games out. The Suns are with everybody below.500.

[Tim Bontemps]

And yeah, you know, they had a game the other night against Memphis where they lost. Durant had a shot at the buzzer that would have won the game. It was not the greatest shot in the world, but he. It's Kevin Durant. He could have made it. And it was the fourth time this season that Durant has had a shot in the last 30 seconds to either go ahead or beat the Grizzlies and they're 04.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah. And listen, the Suns got off to an 8 and 1 start and I was there the night they went 8 and 1. It's when Durant had a, suffered a calf strain that nobody knew about until the next day. But in that 8 and 1 start, almost every single game where these clutch wins and you're thinking, well, okay, they're winning games in the clutch. But you know, that's why point differential, especially early on, is a, oftentimes a much better indicator than even, than even the one win loss record. But think about that. There were seven games above.500 a couple weeks into the season. Now they're six games under. I mean, that's how rough. And like Beals missed some games. Rant missed a little bit there. But certainly compared to last year, they've been relatively healthy this year. And like, dude, they, you know, like the TI Jones signing this summer on the minimum. We all thought that was a great move. You know, it addressed their biggest roster flaw from last year. Frank Vogel is the fall guy. They bring in Bud. You know, honestly, there's been a lot of friction between Bud and, and players on that roster. I would say most importantly Devin Booker, because that is the guy who they will build around moving forward. And you know, like Ishpia said, hey, if I, if I knew what the problem was, I'd fix it right now. They, they don't, they don't think they're that far away, but they don't know exactly what, how the hell they got in this situation now.

[Snoop Dogg]

Well, the problem, the problem is Matt Ishbian. That's the problem. And I think it's a little bit.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think it's a little bit more complex.

[Snoop Dogg]

It's not more complicated than that. Because here's the thing. I very much appreciate Matt Ishbia talking about all this on the record and I very much appreciate a guy buying a team and wanting to win. And whatever else you want to say about Matt Ishbia, he wants to win and he is spending draft picks and spending money and he's committed to trying to win. Like, he had a great quote in here about fans don't care about the luxury tax. Every fan should want to hear the person who runs their team saying that. Right. He's put his money where his mouth is. He spoke on the record about all this stuff. He defended his actions. That's all well and good.

[Bam Adebayo]

He is passionate and he cares.

[Snoop Dogg]

Yes. Which is great. Truly. It's. That's what you want for the person running your team. But I want to go back to the quote about rebuilding because it, it sums up the situation so perfectly for where this team is at. Are you crazy? You think I'm going to go for seven years and try to get there? You enjoy, you enjoy the 2030 draft picks that we have holding. I want to try to see the game today. I want us to win today. And we're going to try. This isn't baseball where you can just spend money and spend your way out of problems. There's a salary cap. There are rules governing transactions in bat. In basketball.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah.

[Snoop Dogg]

You can't just throw more after more after more and fix the situation you're in. The problem for Ishbia and the Suns is they have dug themselves a gigantic hole and they can't dig out of it. And they dug themselves that hole because Matt Ishbia was saying we're going to be as aggressive as possible. We're going to trade everything else we have nailed down to get Bradley Beal after we traded everything we had nailed down to get Kevin Durant. Now we have this incredibly top heavy team. We can't make any moves to deepen out the roster. They could be on their fourth coach in four years in about three or four weeks. Like these are all moves that, that point to, yes, he's incredibly aggressive. Yes, he's incredibly ambitious. Yes, he really wants to win. But you have to have some level of patience and discipline in running a team. And the Suns for the past two years, he's only on the team for two years, have had hit the foot fully down to the floor the entire time. And that's why they have absolutely no assets and they have nowhere to go because they could say, yes, we have options on what to do. And he's right. Like he's let his basketball people handle the draft and they've done a decent job in the draft. They also don't have any draft picks going forward. So it's going to be hard to do well in draft. And like, yes, they could trade Kevin Durant this summer. He basically said, we'll look at trading Kevin Durant this summer. Like Kevin Durant, as you said, Tim has one year left on his contract. He's going to have a lot of say in where he winds up. He's also 37 years old. They're not going to get the kind of all back that they need. He's going to be 37 this fall. They, they're not going to get the kind of haulback they need to rebuild this team around Devin Booker with no other flexibility going forward. And if Bradley Beal is willing to go somewhere, it's because it's a place Bradley Beal really wants to go and he likes the team that's left over afterward because he has a trade clause.

[Bam Adebayo]

And frankly, they might have to, they might have to incentivize a Bradley Beal trade.

[Snoop Dogg]

I mean, that's the thing. They just, they don't have any options.

[Tim Bontemps]

We can talk more about the Suns later this summer. I just definitely read this story's a.

[Bam Adebayo]

Girl, but it's interesting also that I'm in Houston. I saw the Rockets beat the Suns last night. You know, the Rockets also have a brash billionaire still relatively new owner, but they are complete polar opposites in terms of the approaches of the franchise. And you know, the Rockets, who now hold significant draft capital from the Suns moving forward, also have the Mavs 29 pick. They, you know, they, they've got, having.

[Tim Bontemps]

Said that, I don't want to go down to a long road here because we got to end the podcast, but they made it a very aggressive trade for Russell Westbrook that mortgaged their future. Right.

[Bam Adebayo]

And then they learned from it. Right.

[Snoop Dogg]

What did they do? Raphael Stone, James Harden.

[Bam Adebayo]

Well, and they had to, right? They didn't want to. They had to. But when they did that, they said, okay, it's time to go through some pain. It's time to be patient. It's time to go through.

[Tim Bontemps]

They went through what Ishpia said he would not, which is the rebuild.

[Bam Adebayo]

And Tillman Fertitta had to be talked into it by his son Patrick, by Rafael Stone, and he had to be convinced along the way to stick with the plan. They did it. They're good now. And now the story that I'm working on with the Rockets is, okay, now you got, you're a good team, you're a star away. How aggressive are you going to be in the trade market versus kind of continuing on the bets of maybe it being homegrown and that, you know, that's going to be a fascinating thing to keep an eye on with the Rockets over the next, you know, certainly this summer and, and perhaps over the next couple of years.

[Snoop Dogg]

Devin Book is a ton of credit for saying on the record too, that he has no desire to go anywhere and he wants to be a one franchise player too. I know he said it. It's not like it's a new message but like given the, given the state of this.

[Bam Adebayo]

Yeah. Given the state of the Suns, like you know. He, he. There's no wavering there.

[Snoop Dogg]

No, he's an easy guy to root for. That st. All right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Thank you, McMahon, for a great piece. Definitely. Check it out. Our producer Jackson is back. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to McMahon and Bons for joining us. Thank you for listening and watching Collective. We'll talk to you next week.

[Bam Adebayo]

Adios, amigos.

[Snoop Dogg]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians.

[Tim Bontemps]

These are things people say about drivers.

[Snoop Dogg]

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