← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Dame Returns to Portland, Beal Buyout Reaction For Clippers & Suns + Bad Injury News For Mavs & 76ers
01:06:36
Hoop Collective: Dame Returns to Portland, Beal Buyout Reaction For Clippers & Suns + Bad Injury News For Mavs & 76ers
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- [00:02]
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- [00:35]
Brian Windhorst
Hello. Welcome to Hoop Collectors Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on, I guess it's Friday morning for Tim Bontemps in Portugal.
- [00:46]
Tim Bontemps
Is that right after midnight on Friday morning here in Portugal? Yes.
- [00:51]
Brian Windhorst
All right. And it's Monday evening for the rest of Monday. And it's Thursday evening.
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Tim Bontemps
You know what?
- [00:58]
Brian Windhorst
For the rest of us, we.
- [00:59]
Tim Bontemps
You did so good on the time today. You got all the Times right earlier. You got the Times right right now. It was going so well, but then we couldn't. I don't quite land the plane. What is this hat, by the way? This is a new hat.
- [01:12]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, but here's the thing. We recorded the full pod earlier. Ireland. There's the open championship is going on in Ireland this week.
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Tim Bontemps
There you go. Very European Pat situation right now.
- [01:24]
Brian Windhorst
Yes. So we recorded the whole pod earlier and then we had a piece of breaking news and that's what we're going to talk about here before we pick up with McMahon, who's flying back from LA right now, back home to Dallas. So. All right. In what I think has to be termed a feel good story and one of the greatest contractual maneuvers that the NBA has ever seen, but we'll push that off. Push that off. Dame Lillard is going back to the Portland Trailblazers on a two plus one deal. Two years plus a player option basically at the mid level exception. $42 million. Bontemps. Great for the playoff, Blazers fans for the 20, 25, 26 Trailblazers. I guess it'll be nice to have Dame Lillard there. We're going to push the contract off, but I guess it'll be a fun press conference.
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Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, my first thought when I saw this, as you'll hear later, there was a rehearsal dinner tonight in, in. In Lisbon, Portugal, where I'm at for this wedding.
- [02:29]
Brian Windhorst
You must. You sound stone cold sober, so you must not have had that good of a time at it.
- [02:34]
Tim Bontemps
Well, I have a young son who didn't really want to sleep, so I spent about two hours trying to put him to bed. But after I got done with that, I walked out of the room and a few minutes later I got a tweet from Shams announcing that this Dane thing was happening. And the first thing I thought was this is an awesome story. Like you said, Dame going back to Portland, super cool. You know gets a no trade clause which I think is extremely smart by Aaron Goodwin and Dame's management team to make sure that he has some control over his future because that is a, you know that's the kind of mid size salary that could easily be put in a trade later. So good for him to have that locked in. And, and yeah to your, to your point it's the Blazers who seem to be wanting to try to win this year. That's all the indications that we've gotten from them.
- [03:28]
Brian Windhorst
Holiday, right.
- [03:30]
Tim Bontemps
Trading for Drew Holiday, all the other stuff they've done now has $40 million essentially in dead money on their books for the 2526 season. That is a very hard thing to square now the Dame thing in a vacuum honestly totally makes sense to bring him back to Portland on a mid level deal. I think he's going to be probably at worst a third guard next year. Like that's fine. You know if he is anywhere near, you know if he comes anywhere remotely closer player was before the injury that's a huge win for making 14ish million next year. But I, I just don't really get what Portland's trying to do in general. Like are they like they have this roster that doesn't really make a lot of sense. We've talked before about they've now drafted centers and back to back years. They draft Jon Hudson 16th overall after drafting Donovan clinging the year before. Can they actually play together? I don't know. They have, they have, they've had Scoot, Henderson, Shade and Sharp that they drafted high in the lottery the last couple years they haven't been starting. They've been starting behind veterans, they've been blocked. Seems like Scoot's going to start now. But they also trade for Drew Holiday. They also now have Dame even though Dame's not going to play this year. Dane Sharp, I still don't think he's going to start as I think a 23 year old 4th year player. We still don't really know what to make of him. They trade for Denny Abia on a great contract. He's a very good player but by the time they're really ready to win in theory he's going to be need to paid a lot more. They didn't trade Robert Williams when they seem to have opportunities to and now he's been hurt again, and I don't think he has any value on the market. I just. It's just hard to really square what it is they're trying to do in general. And I know that doesn't really matter because we probably should just be talking about how cool it is that Damon's going back. But, you know, I. I just keep looking at the Portland roster and the moves they've made, and I. I just don't really see what the strategy is.
- [05:27]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, so let's acknowledge at the start here that it really, really sucks that Dame Lillard had that injury when it happened in the calendar, which probably wipes out all next season as he was coming back from a blood clot at lightning pace. I'd never seen anything like it. To try to help the. The team, you know, try to get Giannis on a playoff run. That, you know, he was a tough situation for him in Milwaukee because he didn't envision himself going there. I want to acknowledge all of that, and I want to acknowledge that he really just wanted to go to his adopted home of Portland, and that's where he was going to rehab, and now he can rehab. Like, all of that is cool. If you're a Blazers fan who've really kind of been in the wilderness the last couple of years, you're really excited about Yang Hanson. My friend from Shanghai tried to tell me how to say it the other day, and I still didn't get it.
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Tim Bontemps
That's it. It's very simple.
- [06:23]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. Anyway, you have to be really excited about him. You're seeing him doing some stuff in summer league, so even though the Blazers are really underneath, you know, probably 10 or 12 rosters that are better than them, you know, okay, maybe I'll give them the edge of the plan. You know, know, there's some things to be excited about, and the idea of Dame Willard coming back and being in a Blazers uniform, where you have great memories of that decade where he led them to all those playoff victories and those great moments in the Western Conference finals one year. Like, let's acknowledge that all of that is awesome and. Or in the case of Dame, unfortunate. And he deserved a break. We spent a lot of this upcoming podcast talking about the Suns buying out Bradley Beal. We talked a lot previously about the Bucks buying out Dame. The Blazers will almost. Not quite, but almost have as much money as Dame and Beal are costing those teams on the books just for this year combined. Dame and Beal combined almost what they've got on the Books. And this is a jaw droppingly historically great contract.
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Tim Bontemps
Maybe. Maybe it is. Maybe it is just less. Thought it was more, but yeah, no, it probably is just less.
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Brian Windhorst
Okay.
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Tim Bontemps
It's a crazy amount of money. Yeah.
- [07:33]
Brian Windhorst
I think Dame is 23 on the Bucks books and Beal is 19 and change. So call it 20. So 43 and this is going to be a little under 40. Whatever. The point is. The point is it's wild that they're going to have $40 million in dead money. And this is a historically unbelievable contract situation because this is. Like I said, this is a two plus one. So Dame is committed to the Blazers for two years now. I'm sure he intends to not play anywhere else. I'm not saying he is, but he could obviously opt out. Let's say if he comes back in his grade, he could opt out. So he's committed to the Blazers for two more years for which he will be paid $28 million. But he's only going to play one of those years because he's going to miss this season. So Dame did a deal where he's going to get paid $28 million to play one season with a no trade clause while he is getting $23 million in buyout money from the Bucks. It is a brilliant, wonderful turn of events for him and karma says he should have got it. The other thing I want to say is one more thing, Dame. And correct me if I'm wrong, bon temps. Dame, in fact, did ask for a trade from the Blazers. Now, you can say that it was okay that he did that because they were going another direction. They were skewing Young, and I agree with that. But Dame was no longer in Portland because of his personal decision. So, yes, he's coming back and this is wonderful. But it wasn't like he was sent away because the Blazers decided to, you know, decided to send him away. He asked to be traded. So I know that it was a bad ending. There was some hard feelings and this will be, you know, this will sell that over. But like, am I being a jerk? Pontemps for saying that.
- [09:17]
Tim Bontemps
Oration. There was pretty weird at the end. You know, like we've talked, we talked about it a lot at the time. I don't really. I still don't really understand the Blazers position during the negotiations in the Dane. Again, another thing. It was just hard to really follow. They didn't. Miami was very interested in trying to talk to them about Dame and they simply refused to talk to Miami at all. And, you know, the Bucks came Out of nowhere and got him a deal and like had, you know, they sort of fell into their lap and they, they did a nice job with it. They've now turned around and traded for Jrue Holiday anyway. Again. Right. Very odd that Jew Holiday and Dame Load are both on the Bucks now. It's very strange.
- [09:54]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, the roster doesn't make a ton of sense, but I'm not going to stress about it because that's. Who knows what the roster will be in a year.
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Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I know. It's just funny that because of two torn Achilles for two different players, Damon Lloyd and Drew Holiday, who were traded for each other, are now on the rock, on the Blazers together. That's just a strange coincidence. But yeah, I mean, look, the, it, it's, it's a surreal thing for him to be back in Portland. I think it's a super fun story. You know, we're going to talk later about Devin Booker and maybe him staying in Phoenix. I think it's really cool. You know, Dame obviously has had an unbelievable career. And some of my favorite moments watching as a fan over the past 10 or 15 years been the Dame shot to beat the Rockets and the Dame shot to beat the Thunder. I mean, you can argue that the reason the Thunder won the title is because of Damian Lillard, because that shot.
- [10:42]
Brian Windhorst
That'S a long journey. But I, I, I get it. That's a long journey.
- [10:45]
Tim Bontemps
Back in 2019. Well, back in 2019, that shot that he hit, that ended that Ross, PG, Carmelo, team like that, they blew that team up that summer. Obviously. Russ gets traded to Houston, Paul George gets traded to Clippers, they get all the stuff back, it turns into J Dub and Shay and the rest is history. Right? But, but yeah, it's, it's a very cool story and I'm really happy for Dame. He's one of the best dudes in the league. Like you said, stop seeing him get hurt, especially the way he came back in record time from the blood clot. And it's going to be really fun to see the Lettero in a year.
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Brian Windhorst
Form again in a year, in 16 months or something.
- [11:23]
Tim Bontemps
But it is, it is just an incredible piece of work for them to get $28 million. And, and again, I do think that Aaron Goodwin deserves a ton of credit for getting this no trade clause. Because, look, we've talked about it. There's, there's the ownership change on the horizon in Portland. There could be all sorts of changes that come with that. Maybe they would want to use Dame's salary to Trade in a year or whatever. And now that's off the board. And Dane's going to get to stay there as long as he wants. He wants to stay there for three years. He could be there for three years. He wants to be there for two. He could be there for two. You know, it's. It's good for him, and it's going to be a fun story to see in a year. And we'll continue to wait to figure out what exactly the plan is in Portland. Why are they doing this? Saying a lot of things. Let's go.
- [12:07]
Brian Windhorst
I. He could not say no to this, and I'm sure he's happy to say yes, but he also could not say no.
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Tim Bontemps
So, I mean, look, I would also say from a personal level, I would say the last couple years are pretty rough.
- [12:19]
Brian Windhorst
Well, do.
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Tim Bontemps
I just mean it's just for. I think, you know, I don't know how much fans know, but, like, his family. His family was back. Like, I don't know how much any fans know this. His family was back in the Pacific Northwest. He was in Milwaukee. He's talked at times about how tough a situation that was for him. Obviously, then he gets hurt, but, you know, obviously everything I've heard the brief time I poked around about this in the last hour or so since it happened, getting a chance to be back home with his family, not having to worry about moving around anymore, Being locked in for a couple of years back home in Portland, like, all that was incredibly appealing to him, as I'm sure it makes sense to anybody. And it's. It's going to be a lot of fun. And look for a team that really is trying to have Scoot Anderson take the next step as a player. You got Drew Holiday and Dame Lillard mentoring him. That's the one thing I'll say about this situation.
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Brian Windhorst
Like, yeah, their locker room will be.
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Tim Bontemps
Around on those two guys.
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Brian Windhorst
Their locker room will be spectacular. I don't know how they'll be on the floor, but their locker room is going to be spectacular.
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Tim Bontemps
Two of the. Two of the best dudes in the entire league.
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Brian Windhorst
And I will say this game owes a valentine to the Milwaukee Bucks organization because it's not what he wanted. It's not what the Bucks wanted, but them cutting him when they did opened this up. And, I mean, his preference would have been to stay in Milwaukee and, you know, been playing for a championship. But this is a heck of a turn of events that will apply salve to the terrible turn of events with the. With the Achilles. Okay. Well, we're on to the regular pod that we taped earlier. And thank you to Bontemps for staying up late in Portugal. Thanks to Jackson.
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Tim Bontemps
Adios, everybody.
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Brian Windhorst
Well, now, how do you say goodbye in Portuguese?
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Tim Bontemps
I have no idea. Thank you in Portuguese. That's obregado. Thank you.
- [14:04]
Brian Windhorst
That's the only word. That's all you're gonna get.
- [14:07]
Tim Bontemps
That's right. Obricado.
- [14:10]
Marc Stein
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [14:14]
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- [14:29]
Brian Windhorst
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Tim Bontemps
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Brian Windhorst
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Brian Windhorst
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Tim Bontemps
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Brian Windhorst
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Tim Bontemps
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- [15:13]
Brian Windhorst
See Mint. Hello and welcome to the HOOPP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday afternoon in Portugal and early morning in LA and midday here in Nebraska.
- [15:32]
Tim Bontemps
We got the times right. Big win.
- [15:35]
Brian Windhorst
By the way. This is our first take. Usually there's like two or three takes. All right. Joining us from Portugal. Still there, Tim Bon Thomps.
- [15:42]
Tim Bontemps
Hello everybody.
- [15:43]
Brian Windhorst
Joining us from Los Angeles where he's doing NBA Today this week. And I watched the some of the red carpet at the ESPYs. McMahon. Were you banned from there as well?
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Marc Stein
Howdy, partners. Imitation got lost in the mail. Must have gotten sent out maybe when I was covering the finals or something and I just didn't see it. I did. I didn't hang out with Dave McMenamin, but another Dave, a listener slid in my DMs, invited me to go play pickup basketball. It was a mediocre performance by me. I was the Oldest guy by at least a decade or so. He told me there'd be middle age and then there's all dudes in the 30s. What happened here? So that's how I met my sp z. Eve.
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Brian Windhorst
Here's the question that Dave McMenamon cannot answer on the record. Do you think he would have preferred being on the ESPY's red carpet or at a pickup game last night?
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Tim Bontemps
I don't think there's any question. The answer is playing pickup. He would answer that on the record, too. No, no.
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Marc Stein
Dave was in heaven. He was red carpet.
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Tim Bontemps
The.
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Marc Stein
His little Eagles got the team of the year. He had front row Joe seats. Hey, Dave McMinimon loves hooping, but he loves being celebrity Dave.
- [16:51]
Brian Windhorst
All right, well, we did have another significant transaction, one we've been waiting for for a while. This week, the Phoenix Suns and Bradley Beal came to a buyout agreement. The final number was $99 million. And the Suns will wave and stretch that over the next five years. That's just a hair under $20 million a year on their books. And Beal, you know, he had permission to discuss contract terms with other teams. It was wide open. That was allowed. His agent, Mark Bartlestein, told me he met with five or six teams over zoom. Met with Steve Ballmer, met with Ty Lue. Most importantly, I think which we'll talk about in a few minutes, met with James Harden. Harden played a key role here, and he signs a. A two year, $11 million or in. He hasn't signed yet because he hasn't cleared waivers yet, but you know how this goes. The.
- [17:44]
Marc Stein
I got a feeling he will.
- [17:46]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
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Tim Bontemps
And by the way, literally, he. There's no team that can claim right now, so he actually will be clearing waivers.
- [17:51]
Brian Windhorst
I did have somebody ask me about that. So let me just. Let me just clarify that for a second before I toss it to you. Bontems. The waiver process goes like this. Just. We're in mid July and we've got some time to.
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Tim Bontemps
Sure, we got time.
- [18:02]
Brian Windhorst
Okay. Player gets put on waivers. The way that you get that player is there's a reverse order. The team with the worst record gets to. Gets to go first, and the team with the best record gets to go last. So what it works is the player goes on waivers, and if you want to put a claim in, you tell the league office I put a claim in, and the team with the worst record gets them.
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Tim Bontemps
But two, just like a fantasy draft or fantasy league for people who play.
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Brian Windhorst
So start fancy drafts with me, buddy. I was you're going to only confuse me.
- [18:31]
Marc Stein
Pick up a snake draft.
- [18:33]
Brian Windhorst
Oh my God. So anyway, to claim the player though, you've, you've either gotta have enough cap space to take him or you've got to have an exception to take him in which because Beal makes 52 million.
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Tim Bontemps
Even with the, even with the buyout, it's 30, it's 39 or I guess it's what, 46 million because it's 7 million each year. Nobody's got 46 million.
- [18:57]
Brian Windhorst
No team has 46 million in space. So Beal will pass through waivers and become a free agent. This is understood. So he, you know, Priority Sports, who Mark Bartlestein is the CEO of. He can, he can say we're going to go to the Clippers for two years and $11 million. It's about 5.4 in the first year, which is everything the Clippers had left on their mid level exception. So bond temps. Here's what I was going to say to you before we talk about the. Actually, let's talk about the sons of this first. Because Damian Lillard got released a few weeks ago and we already have seen $113 million wave and stretch out and because we knew that Bradley Beal was going to be bought out for some period of time here, I think it dulls the reaction that we have $100 million going onto a team's books for the next five years.
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Tim Bontemps
Yeah, Brian, look, the Suns have been an abject disaster for a couple of years now from a roster building perspective. And this Bradley Beal wave and stretch is the culmination of that. You wrote a really good story. I, I recommend everybody go read it. That lays out why and how the Suns chose to do this and why the Clippers got them all. All the various permutations of it. A lot of them will get through. But the first thing you say in there is that this is about money. And then you go into other reasons, no offense to the reasons you put in there. This isn't about the other reasons. This is about saving Matt ispia over $160 million this year alone. Because the Suns go from being in the second apron to being out of the luxury tax completed. And this entire sun situation is exactly what I covered 10 years ago with Mikhail Prokoroff and the Brooklyn Nets. It's literally the same thing. Brash owner comes in, says, damn the torpedoes, I'm going to spend infinite money. Nobody can stop me. I know, I know better than everybody. It's going to be fine. Makes a crazy trade with all the draft picks to get an older veteran player to try to immediately win a title wins. I think they won one playoff series with Kevin Durant, pretty sure, just like the Kevin Garnett Paul Pierce team. Then they, the team starts to struggle. The owner goes, you know what if we're not very good, I don't really want to spend $200 million on a team and then starts making rapid cost cutting moves to then hand really good draft picks to other other teams in the league. In this case it's going to be multiple teams. In that case it was the Boston Celtics. And look, let's also just be honest. If we go back a couple of years now, the sun have been going back and forth on all of these moves the whole time. They take on Bradley Beal. They say they're going to spend money left and right. They give out all these second year player options on deals to make them allegedly more tradable, which was not true, to cost them more money. Then they immediately start giving away picks and pick swaps to get rid of campaign to get rid of Isaiah Todd back. Then they then give Royce o' Neill and Grayson Allen big contracts in free agency to keep the assets going forward. Now they can't trade those guys. They're stuck with all this money. So now they wave and stretch Bradley Beal for the rest of the decade and try to argue that it gives them more flexibility to build around Devin Booker, which it doesn't like. The idea that, oh, it's no big deal for the Suns to have $22 million in dead space on their books for the rest of the decade is crazy. Like, look, this isn't Milwaukee. I can understand the Bucks doing that as much as I don't think it's going to work with Miles Turner. You're trying to keep Giannis, Teddy Kupo on the team and it's Milwaukee. It's not a cap space destination. I understand at least the rationale behind that. Even if it's still a crazy move. Phoenix is a free agent destination. They could get guys to go there. And now they've. They're giving up 10 to 15% of their cap to wave and stretch Bradley Beal to save the owner money. When we were always told the owner was going to be all in on winning and money was no object. Like all of this stuff has just not made any sense. It's why I've kept saying it's as bad a situation as we've ever seen in a history of league from a roster standpoint. And from a draft pick standpoint and an overall management standpoint. And you know, even in your story, they're arguing that Jalen Green and Devin Booker are going to fit well together like that. That I do not see that. Like, I just. This situation is really rough and we'll see what happens with these young guys they got this summer. We'll see. Maybe Color Modowak is going to be a really good player getting him in the Kevin Durant trade. Maybe Jalen Green blows up getting Phoenix. Maybe. But it's hard to look at this be open as anything else other than just a giant exclamation point on what's been a disastrous two and a half years of Matt Ishbl and the Suns.
- [23:30]
Marc Stein
Yeah, more than anything, that's exactly what this is and what the KD trade is an admission that the Matt Ishbia air in Phoenix has been an absolute disaster. I like your, your use of the word abject. That's a great word this thing had. It has been an abject failure. And Matt Ishbia's philosophy that he has repeated over and over again has always been money. I'm not worried about money. I'm going to spend as much. You know, I'm going to outspin everybody. I'm going to, you know, go all in on winning a championship every single year. And then you look up and you're like, dude, you didn't crack the freaking play in last year. And you're, you know, historically expensive. Like it just, it reached a point where it's like, okay, dude, we're not anywhere even remotely close to contending. I mean, not remotely close. And this was an opportunity for him to save $175 million this year when he had up all the tax and all that. And really just they have a shovel. They are trying to dig out of the huge hole that they, that they've created in the last two and a half years. They got nickels on the dollar for Kevin Duran. I won't say pennies, but definitely nickels on the dollar. I mean, they still owe more in picks than they got for him on the way out. That's a disaster. And then, you know, as you said, Beal, you don't just get to, you know, wash your hands of him. He's lingering on your cap. He's going to count four times as much on the Sun's cap for the next five years as he is on the, on the Clippers cap this year. I mean, it's really is with the lack of picks, this creates a little bit of flexibility. But you know, to your point, any flexibility this creates is outweighed by the fact that he's counting almost 20 million against their cap for the next five years.
- [25:37]
Tim Bontemps
I just want to add one more quote because Bobby Marks had a great story on the second aprons that ran yesterday and he had an incredible quote for Bat Ishva that he told Ramona after last season. So a year ago. Right. I just want to read this quote Hobby said. Remember the now infamous comments by Sun's owner Matt Ishby after the 2324 season? Here's the quote. Well, I understand all the rules that come with the second apron. I understand exactly what the CBA tried to do. I read it, I know it inside and out. And we made a calculated decision that we think the team with the best players wins. Would I rather have Brad Beal, Kevin Durant, Devin Booker than just having two of those guys? I'd rather have all three 100 times out of 100. And I don't think there's another GM or owner or CEO that wouldn't say the exact same thing.
- [26:18]
Marc Stein
And that's this is admitting that he was wrong and it was an expensive.
- [26:23]
Brian Windhorst
Right. So Bobby Marks gave me the numbers in this story which he believes that when you include everything, including the distribution that you get by being in the, you know, out of the tax, you get everybody else's tax money. He thinks it's $175 million savings for the Suns this year. Now at the end of the day, when you're talking about billionaires money, I get that some fans don't care. And yeah, I don't even, I don't. That's fine with that. I'm just going to say to you that from a straight spreadsheet standpoint, saving $175 million alone in one year, it's a no brainer, is probably enough to talk you into making this a no brainer.
- [27:04]
Tim Bontemps
The second, from a money saving standpoint, the problem is trying to claim it's something else.
- [27:09]
Brian Windhorst
Okay.
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Marc Stein
Yeah.
- [27:10]
Brian Windhorst
The other thing is if you don't, if you include the money that you don't pay Beal this year, it's like over 200 million. But obviously, obviously the they're going to have to pay him the money eventually. He's going to get the full 99 million. Having said that, the, you know, it doesn't help you on the court. Now the one thing that in talking to folks with the Suns that they say, and they're by the way, to be clear Bontems, they're not arguing that this is the driver.
- [27:38]
Marc Stein
No one's celebrating this.
- [27:40]
Brian Windhorst
But, but when you are, when you are in the second apron as they were last year and everywhere you turn you run into a wall and you have a bad team. Yeah, it's tough to get through your, your days and your weeks. Okay. And now at least they're out of the second apron. And yes, they get their mid level exception back, which they're not going to spend probably right now, but they get it back next year when they would have been in the second apron too. So, you know, is that going to solve their problems? No. And by the way, getting out of the second apron so you can aggregate and stuff again matters less when you don't control your draft pick for the next six years, which they don't.
- [28:16]
Tim Bontemps
And by the way, one other thing that is very central to this whole discussion. When the Suns traded for Mattish or for Mattish Field, when the Suns traded for Bradley Beal and they, they gave up the pick swaps and the second round picks, people were like, it's not like, you know, it's not that much for Brady Beal. It's a good, good trade for the Suns.
- [28:33]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
- [28:33]
Tim Bontemps
The Suns not getting Bradley Beal to give up the no trade cost to do that deal was a catastrophic mistake. There's a reason other teams were not trading for Bradley Beal. They didn't want to deal with that no trade clause. There's a reason why the first thing, Mike Winger and Will Dawkins, when they got there, what did they do? They got Bradley Beal off their books. Why? Because they didn't want to have that no trade cause. Because inherently, what does a no trade cause mean? As we Talked about with LeBron James, it means the player dictates how things go. And if the Suns could have traded Bradley Beal for other stuff, they probably could have done that wouldn't have had to wave and stretch them and this whole thing might look a lot different. But instead they had no choice but to do this. And that's why this is such a complete disaster.
- [29:16]
Brian Windhorst
Now you may say to yourself, well, why did the Suns let Bradley Beal go out and talk to all these teams? Because even though Bradley Beal wasn't going to be traded and therefore his no trade clause really didn't come into play here, this is an important factor. The and why did Bradley Beal give up 14 million? Why was it not 17 million? Why was it not 8 million? The answer is because the Suns already had wave and stretched guys on their roster. Nasir Little and who's the other one? Bon temps.
- [29:46]
Tim Bontemps
E.J. ladonna.
- [29:47]
Brian Windhorst
E.J.
- [29:47]
Tim Bontemps
Ladonna, former Ohio State STAR yeah, yeah.
- [29:49]
Brian Windhorst
Because they already had those guys. Beal had to waive that money to get under that. So Bill still had leverage.
- [29:55]
Tim Bontemps
You know, this was the bare minimum that the number he gave up, the bare minimum he had to give up in order to make it legal to wave and stretch him. Just so people are clear.
- [30:02]
Brian Windhorst
So for the Suns to save the $175 million this year, they need to be able to leave 14 million on the table. And so that meant Bill had leverage because that's, I think that's the other thing. Like, you know, I see Suns fans saying, well, why couldn't they get him to leave more money on the table? You, you imagine that they tried. I'm sure they tried.
- [30:25]
Tim Bontemps
Also. Brad Beal would just, I think Brad Beal, Mark Bartlestein would have very simply said, we don't have to leave any money on the table. You guys want to get rid of us, you can get rid of us. And the only reason they gave us this much is because they wanted to leave.
- [30:35]
Brian Windhorst
So people, people were saying, well, how come this is taking so long? Well, the answer is because be all completely and fully vetted the market and talked to everybody. Even I said in the story, because I talked to Mark Bartlestein on the record, he asked for permission from James Harden's agents to talk to James Harden.
- [30:58]
Marc Stein
Now, Mark Bartlestein, Mark Bartelstein asked for permission.
- [31:02]
Brian Windhorst
Mark Bartlestein, Bradley Beals representative, asked and received permission to talk to James Harden. He didn't want there to be any shenanigans. I mean, by the way, like players that talk to guys who are not their agents all the time. But he wanted it all to be on the up and up. And so that was part of what was going on here with this whole process. But the reason all of that went on was because to, for the, for the Suns to have to get that savings, they had to play ball with Bradley Beal. Even when the no trade clause was out of the picture, they still had to play ball because he still had leverage because of the situation they left themselves in. That's what we get to.
- [31:36]
Marc Stein
And quite frankly, Bradley Beal wasn't in a mood to do the Suns any great favors either. Because let me just tell you, that's a guy who sat there last season and despite the fact that he had a no trade clause, his name was in trade rumors for months. And you know, he felt disrespect and I'm, I'm not guessing. He told me this stuff on the record. He felt disrespected by that. He felt disrespected by, you know, in his eyes, being demoted for a little while to a six man role. And this was last summer or I'm sorry, last season. I'm talking to him after the trade deadline and basically he said, you know, hey, you know, like kd, I didn't want to be traded in the middle of the season. You know, Beals got a wife, he's got young kids. He didn't want to uproot his family in the middle of season. But he said in the summer there's a lot more options. You know, there's a lot more time to figure things out. And so look, be a wanted out, but he wasn't going to do any charity work for Ishpi on the way out. He was going to get as much money as he as you could get.
- [32:43]
Brian Windhorst
One other thing about Beal last season, okay, he averaged 17 points, shot about 49%, ish, shot about 39% on threes.
- [32:51]
Tim Bontemps
His numbers are very similar to the guy he's replacing with the Clippers, Norm Powell.
- [32:55]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, so let's, let's just pivot to that. So he had the lowest usage rate of his career last year. Now, whether or not you think he should have had the ball more, that's another conversation. Whether or not you side with Mike Budenholzer who wanted basically to have him more become a spot up shooter and defender as opposed to a ball handler, however you want to say it. The point is Beal got the ball the least amount of times in his career his whole. Even when he was a rookie, he got the ball more than he did last year. When you're making 53. Actually, this last year he made exactly 50. When you're making $50 million and you average 17 points, people are not going to be thrilled.
- [33:30]
Marc Stein
No more Hoop Collective podcast after this. Hey guys, it's Ceedee Lamb, wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys.
- [33:39]
Tim Bontemps
I'm partnering with Abercrombie this season to.
- [33:41]
Marc Stein
Tell you all about their viral denim. All you need to know is denim should fit like this.
- [33:46]
Tim Bontemps
My jeans need to check a lot of boxes fit first, trend second.
- [33:50]
Marc Stein
They need to go with whatever I'm feeling.
- [33:52]
Tim Bontemps
And Abercrombie Dental Abracrac Denim has it.
- [33:54]
Marc Stein
Down whether I'm throwing on a tee or putting a whole fit together. Shop Abercrombie Denim in the app online and in store.
- [34:06]
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- [35:06]
Brian Windhorst
But now we're going to pivot to the Clippers. So why did he choose the Clippers? He obviously had a number of teams who were interested. The Clippers won out. Couple of reasons. One, Ty Lue, who has a very good relationship with players across the league. Ty Lue is from the St. Louis area. He returned to the St. Louis area. Mexico, Missouri is where he's from. But it's on the. It's, you know, it's, it's. I wouldn't say it's a suburb of St. Louis, but it's if you're going to Mexico, you're flying to St. Louis and then taking a drive. So.
- [35:38]
Marc Stein
And taking a little drive.
- [35:40]
Brian Windhorst
So Tyloo is from the same area, Bradley Beals, and therefore has known him for decades.
- [35:46]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [35:47]
Brian Windhorst
The second thing is Harden called him up. Harden called them up and made the pitch. And here's the pitch that Harden made. He said, all right, last year I played 79 games. I played the fifth most minutes. I need to offload some stuff here and you are going to, I need you to, to help me. I want you to have a bigger role. Okay. I need to offload some. 2. Norm Powell thrived in this system and I made sure I took, you know, I think if you're hardened, you're saying, I took care of Norm Powell and I took care of Avitsa Zubots. They both had career years. Yeah, I'm going to take care of you. And the reason that this matters to Beal isn't just for his ego. Beal is 32 years old and he got a one year plus a player option. He can be a free agent in a year.
- [36:34]
Tim Bontemps
He'll cash in in a year if he has a great year.
- [36:36]
Brian Windhorst
Exactly. He's going to want to get the money back. In fact, he could end up in.
- [36:39]
Marc Stein
The black here depending on what happens, very easily.
- [36:42]
Brian Windhorst
So that was the other thing, Harden said. He's like, look, look at what happened with, with Norm Powell. I love the Norm. We're going to work together. Like, like Norm and I did three when I came here to the Clippers. I was in a tough spot. I washed out of Philadelphia. I thought things were going to go well there. It didn't work out. I ended up coming here. I got to rehab. My situation. The Clippers promised me a B and C and a B and C happened. He goes, you can trust this organization. So he says those three things. I'm sure there are other players, by the way, on, on the Clippers who reached out. But Harden met with Beal. Harden met with the representative, sold them all. The Clippers had $5.4 million left of their, of their mid level and said, this is what we're going to offer you. So as Bontemps pointed out, he gave up the absolute minimum that he could to get out of the deal with Phoenix and then he got the every penny that he could from the Clippers. So he maximized those two things. And McMahon now Beal slides into a team that is too deep at every position. They are not the perfect team, but they finished last season 18 and three. They go out in seven games in the series. You covered in the first round Clippers. Did you cover that first round series?
- [37:57]
Marc Stein
I didn't cover that series. It was a series seven game one at that.
- [38:02]
Tim Bontemps
It was the first round of the conference series. Yes.
- [38:04]
Brian Windhorst
Anyway, McMahon Beal slides into that team and I, I, I assume the way I was told by, I won't, I can't. The Clippers have hands off. They can't talk to Bradley Beal yet because, you know. And then they can. But you know, the Clippers can't say anything because he's not their player yet. But I think there's a strong expectation.
- [38:22]
Tim Bontemps
Let's just, let's just say he's going to be Norm Powell on the Clippers. Absolutely.
- [38:25]
Brian Windhorst
He's going to be their starting team.
- [38:27]
Marc Stein
This, the, the business of the Norm pal trade is now done. The Clippers make that trade with the anticipation that they're going to be able to slide Bradley Beal right into that starting shooting guard spot. And look Bradley Beal for $50 million with a no trade clause is a terrible contract. Bradley Beal for 5 million and change for 9th man money. Are you kidding me? This is a tremendous value addition for the Clippers. And look, Beal was miscast. He was miscast in Phoenix. It was a bad fit. He's not a bad player. He's not a supermax player. He's not a superstar. He's not. He's a good player though. Even in Phoenix, the guy over two years averaged 18, 4 and 4 on 50, 40, 80 shooting, you know, but like last year, there were times Bill was taking the toughest defensive assignment. Are you kidding me? That's ridiculous. That's not what he does. And like this is a team you mentioned, it's too deep. You know, I called it the best team in LA yesterday and I don't think that's a controversial comment. Of course, I had Lakers fans all mad about it.
- [39:31]
Tim Bontemps
Clippers have five guys. It's unquestionable.
- [39:34]
Marc Stein
Yeah, the Clippers have five guys. That would be the Lakers best defensive player. I mean five, two bigs and three on ball guys. At least five guys like people think. I think a lot of people still think of James Harden as Houston. James Harden. Ball dominant James Harden, you know, the guy who, you know, some people would say he was tough to play with because he dominated the ball so much. James Harden right now at this stage of his career is maybe the best table setter in the NBA. He's not a guy who's looking to get 35 a night. He's a guy who's looking to get everybody involved. He, he's a bastard trying to get 22 and 12. Yeah, he's a basketball genius who just helped Norm Powell have a career year. Just help Avitz's Zubots have a career year. He's, you know, as, as he's saying he's trying to figure out how to win while not, you know, just wearing himself out from an energy perspective. And getting a guy like this who's still a big time efficient scorer, who can operate off the dribble is huge for Harden. I don't know where, I don't know if the Clippers are. I, you know, I don't know that they're going to make a playoff run, but they've got that potential. I mean, the west is so loaded. If the Clippers were in the east, they might be the best team in the east. They'd at least be top two or three. But they're, they're, they're a good team last year and they've gotten better this summer.
- [41:03]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, look, they turned, they turned Norm Powell into Brady Beal, who's at worst the same level player as Norm Powell, and they got John Collins for free. John Collins is a really good player, especially if he's your eighth or ninth guy. They signed Brook Lopez to a one plus one with a team option in the second year. A great contract to back up the vox. Now they got 48 minutes of really good center play. Lopez, you know, if Lopez is playing 38 minutes for you or 35 minutes for you and having to deal with all sorts of different lineups, there are times he could run into some trouble. But he's still a good player. And as a guy who's going to be coming off the bench for them, who can space the court, bomb threes to protect the rim, that's a great signing for them. Yeah, you, as you mentioned, Zubac was tremendous last year. He's only getting better. We'll see if Kawhi can stay healthy. But even if Kawhi can't stay healthy during the season with James Harden and now Bradley Beal and then all of these, like you said, all these solid role players who can guard Chris Dunn, Derrick Jones, Nick Batum, like, I think the Clippers have a really good chance to be top two in the west in a regular season. I don't know what the ceiling will be in the playoffs because again, that comes down to Kawhi's health and we've seen that come up time and time again, even though he was healthy at least for the back half of the year and the playoff run this past season. But these guys won 50 games last year and I think they got markedly better. And yeah, the idea that they're in the same conversation with the Lakers, the Lakers are not nearly as deep overall as the Clippers are. I know the Lakers last year had the same record as the Clippers, but to me, if you're going roster for roster with all the holes on the Laker roster, I don't think it's that controversial to say that this Clippers team, especially after these moves they made this summer, have gotten way better and I think are really primed at minimum. To me, it's a little bit of a funky comparison, but they kind of remind me of the George Carl, Ben Vernuggets team with Aviana and Danilo Gallinari and those guys that won 56, 57 games. Obviously Kawhi is a different level player than that team had, but that team was like 10 deep and they just ran out good players all the time and churned out regular season wins. I could see this Clipper team having a very similar season next year.
- [43:07]
Brian Windhorst
You know, one thing I would say because, you know, you look at the Clippers off season, they took their mid level which they signed hard. They gave Harden a $6 million raise. I'm sure he probably wanted a little bit more, but he's 35. They gave him a $6 million raise. So he makes all NBA. He makes the all star team. They bump him to $40 million a year. That's, you know, it's a representative. You know, they didn't insult him. He agreed to it. But they gave him just enough money that they had the full mid level. So then they take the mid level and Norm Powell and as you guys just described, they turn that into John Collins, Bradley Beal and Brook Lopez. That's just good work. I don't know if they're winning championship, but it's great business. And I'll say something else. You look at the Clippers, they add John Collins and they add Brook Lopez. You look at the, the Rockets, they add. They re signed Stephen Adams, they signed Capella.
- [43:56]
Tim Bontemps
Dies.
- [43:57]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. You look at the Nuggets, they trade for Jonas Valentunas. We assume he's going to show up and play right size across the board. These teams biggest back.
- [44:07]
Tim Bontemps
Biggest back.
- [44:08]
Brian Windhorst
That's right. You know, for, for a decade plus, everybody leaned into small. Everyone's leaning into size. And that's why.
- [44:13]
Marc Stein
And that's what the Thunder did last year. They went out and got Hartenstein the biggest free agency edition in franchise history.
- [44:19]
Brian Windhorst
Look what the Thunder prioritized this offseason. You know what the Thunder did this offseason before they signed Shay, Chad Holmgren or Jalen Williams. They signed J. Will, Jalen Williams out of Arkansas. They resigned big and drafted to center.
- [44:34]
Tim Bontemps
Thomas sober out of Georgia.
- [44:35]
Brian Windhorst
And even look elsewhere, look at, look at Portland. Portland, who's drafted centers and back to back drafts, you know like that. I mean people are even look at the Cavs. The Cavs made one significant free agent addition this off season. That was signing friend of the, that was signing friend of the pod Larry Nance to get a more playable extra big man. So look, you got to have size in the game. And that's one of the reasons why you're a little worried about the Lakers. If you're looking at the Lakers, okay, they got Deandre Ayton. That was a great job. Spending $8 million to get that player they got, Jackson Hayes as a backup. Is that good enough? When you're looking at all this size that you go in the Western Conference.
- [45:11]
Tim Bontemps
No, I mean the answer, the answer, the answer is.
- [45:13]
Brian Windhorst
And also you're also looking at why the Warriors. I mean, we believe that they're going to get Al Horford, but you understand why the warriors huge priority was to go out there and get Al Horford. Because the warriors size is their challenge.
- [45:24]
Marc Stein
So Al Horford was playing when they were the, we believe, Warriors.
- [45:29]
Tim Bontemps
That actually is true. They, the other, the other, one other thing, just to put a bow on the Sun's part too is to give those guys some credit for all the issues they've had. I do think they have had a decent off season, at least getting some younger talent in there and making some moves that are starting to at least acknowledge that they're recognizing the problems they've had. Now they have, as McMahon correctly said, they got a ton to dig out of. But like my lock is a good swing at 10. Like that's the kind of guy that could really pop for them. You know, getting moving around in, in the second round to get Bashir Fleming, who's a guy that, you know, was seen as a potential first round pick. Getting him at 31 was good like they did, you know, Brian Dunn and also Yadara at least are interesting young guys from last year. They are starting to add some depth to their roster and getting some young talent in there. But you know, obviously it's a long way to go.
- [46:20]
Brian Windhorst
To your point about, you talk about the Nets, I think it's a very fair comparison. How did the Nets get out of the hole that the, the KG Paul Pierce trade put them in? They got out of the hole by stopping digging.
- [46:33]
Marc Stein
Yeah. Now the shovel now is putting the dirt back in that deep hole.
- [46:37]
Brian Windhorst
So they had to pivot around and look, they ultimately did it through free agency when they got Kyrie and Durant and that's another story.
- [46:44]
Marc Stein
But when they built a respectable team to put them in position and they.
- [46:48]
Brian Windhorst
Started by getting some young players. So as Bontemps just said, you know, last year's picks look pretty good. Ryan Dunn had a good year. Yep, they're very excited.
- [46:59]
Tim Bontemps
They drafted Caris Lavert, they drafted Jared Allen, they went and found Joe Harris on the scrap heap like that. That's. The Suns have to start doing that kind of stuff and it's going to take a while but.
- [47:09]
Marc Stein
Well, the Suns have a clear eyed view of where they are and it's. It had to smack them in the face by not even making the freaking play in with that historically expensive roster. But they've recognized, oh, they've said, hey, Booker's a franchise guy. We've got to surround him with defense, youth and athleticism. That's been their priority. And there's a long way to go. But they at least understand they're not a. A little tweak away from being a title contender.
- [47:39]
Brian Windhorst
The Nets ended up taking d' Angelo Russell, turning him into an All Star, and trading him for Kevin Durant. Now, they didn't have to trade him for Kevin Durant.
- [47:48]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, that's that. Yeah, I mean, that's all.
- [47:50]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, sure. Dave. Would you say they maximized Angelo Russell?
- [47:54]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I would.
- [47:58]
Brian Windhorst
See what happens.
- [48:00]
Tim Bontemps
Charitable rewriting of history of that. But.
- [48:02]
Brian Windhorst
All right, let's see.
- [48:03]
Tim Bontemps
Look, the Nets did a lot of bright, A lot of good things building out that roster to set it up to get those guys. The only thing I'll say is the Nets were able to do that because they could have, they could generate max cap space. And these guys have Devin Booker on the roster and they have $22 million of dead money on the roster.
- [48:19]
Brian Windhorst
By the way, before we move on, can I just say something about Devin Booker's contract?
- [48:25]
Marc Stein
It's your podcast.
- [48:27]
Brian Windhorst
You got a player.
- [48:28]
Tim Bontemps
I shouldn't say that. Like, Devin Booker is a bad way, A bad thing. By the way, having Devin Booker is good.
- [48:32]
Brian Windhorst
To be clear, he got a player option in that deal.
- [48:35]
Tim Bontemps
Why wouldn't he get a player option? Why wouldn't he?
- [48:38]
Brian Windhorst
I, I get. I just figured if you're giving him a two year extension, that wouldn't just.
- [48:45]
Tim Bontemps
No, the owner came out and said we have to give Devin Booker all the money. It's a pretty easy negotiation if you're Devin Booker and his representatives.
- [48:53]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I wouldn't. Well, I wouldn't.
- [48:55]
Tim Bontemps
Just give us all the stuff and.
- [48:57]
Marc Stein
We'Ll say Devin Booker's blind loyalty to the Suns organization is of immense value. Can you imagine if Booker forces a trade trying to put butts in those seats?
- [49:11]
Brian Windhorst
I want you to think what Devin Booker got here. He essentially agreed to a one year extension. He agreed to giving the Suns one more year because he got a player option in the deal, which I would not have thought was a guarantee. And he, he got, he got a. He promised the Suns one additional season and guaranteed himself 140something million. My, that's pretty good.
- [49:37]
Tim Bontemps
It's pretty, it's pretty good business. And by the way, Devin Booker just says, as we've talked about before if he just wants to be with the Suns for his career, like that's cool. Like I don't think there's any issue with that either. Like I'll be curious to see where his mindset is on this in a year or two if this team turns into what the Nets were post moves and in the Western Conference. It's going to be tough for these guys to be, I think a playing team with the team they have. But if he wants to stay there, by no means, you know, by no means do I think that's some sort of light on Devin Booker, but it is going to be a big hill.
- [50:13]
Marc Stein
Decline just like it wasn't on Damian Lillard in Portland.
- [50:16]
Tim Bontemps
Right, Right. Exactly.
- [50:17]
Brian Windhorst
All right. Out east we had our, we had our friend of the podcast, Nick Nurse on the podcast Saturday night in Las Vegas. Thank you again to coach for coming on man.
- [50:29]
Tim Bontemps
Later the second, the second closest thing to the Memphis Christmas injury Update the.
- [50:34]
Brian Windhorst
Philadelphia 76ers Medical well Paul George medical update arrived. Oh my God. Paul George has arthroscopic knee surgery. We did not know was coming.
- [50:46]
Tim Bontemps
Here's the important line from that that release. The important line from that release is he will be re evaluated prior to training camp. That to be clear to people at home does I guess it's possible but it very likely means what that means is that Paul George will be checked out before training camp and then we will get another update on when his next update is going to be. By the way, that's three. That's two full months from now. Two and a half months from now. We're going to get a checkup on the status of Paul George and in a very long story is released on ESPN.com yesterday Joel Embiid said there's no timeline on his situation and he hopes to be ready for training camp. So the Sixers after a year of injury situation. So Paul George and Joel Appied are two and a half months from training camp in the exact same situation they were all last year.
- [51:40]
Brian Windhorst
6 days ago Daryl Morey held a press conference in Las Vegas on the state of the Sixers, as many general managers do. And at that press conference he said we're really excited. I'm summarizing this is not the exact quote. So we're really excited about some of these young guys. We're excited about VJ Edgecom, we're excited about Jerry McCain coming back. You know, we're going to really try to get Quentin Grimes under contract. But for us to get where we're going. We've really got to have Joel, Paul George and Tyrese Maxey. And I know that that's like. Of course. But he said that last Friday.
- [52:14]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [52:15]
Brian Windhorst
On Monday we have Paul George.
- [52:19]
Marc Stein
Paul George undergoing knee surgery.
- [52:21]
Brian Windhorst
And on Wednesday we have this. We haven't had any.
- [52:25]
Tim Bontemps
Daryl has said the Joel thing, but Joel hasn't said anything.
- [52:28]
Brian Windhorst
Right. So the first quotes from Embiid for six months.
- [52:31]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. Since. Since February. January, February, something like that.
- [52:36]
Brian Windhorst
So he says there's no timetable. I mean, if I'm a Sixer fan. I know, I know that. Darrell, I'm sorry, McMahon, I'm stepping all over you.
- [52:42]
Tim Bontemps
I'm sorry. You're good.
- [52:43]
Brian Windhorst
I understand that. You know, I think Daryl made some headlines at the. And you know, when he had his convention, Sloan Conference last spring when he said, you know, he feels like the Sixers fans a lot of times only operate in angle or any.
- [52:57]
Marc Stein
They've had a lot of reason.
- [52:59]
Brian Windhorst
But God, this is so frustrating. This has got to be so frustrating.
- [53:03]
Tim Bontemps
Especially when the east is. There's a semi truck lane in the east to drive down.
- [53:09]
Marc Stein
It's wide open and they like, they have the two worst contracts in the NBA. Now, you could have an argument about Beal, that contract no longer exists. Or, you know, it's. It's just a number on a spreadsheet.
- [53:22]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, there's just very. There's very few contracts that are even in the discussion, if for no other reason than just the amount of years and dollars left on them. There's just very few contracts that long. And then you add in the injury uncertainty with both guys, you do.
- [53:36]
Marc Stein
It comes down to production for pay. And unfortunately, like, both these guys are unbelievably talented. I mean, Joel Embiid, you know, we're. We're a year and a half removed from him playing the best big man basketball. Well, I'm not gonna say that because Joker's unbelievable.
- [53:53]
Brian Windhorst
But.
- [53:53]
Marc Stein
But playing at a historically dominant level, like, you know, more points than minutes, I mean, the wilt type of things. But like, what could be. Doesn't matter if he never plays or if he barely plays or when he is playing, he's dragging his leg around the court. And then Paul George, you know, we talk about what a great summer the Clippers had. Well, it turns out they had a pretty good summer last year too. Even though it didn't look good at the time. Basically saying, hey, we don't want to continue to be in the Paul George business. And again, he had a great year last year with The Clippers. But just unfortunately, at this point in his career, his body is not reliable. He's not on the floor frequently enough to be part of a foundation.
- [54:43]
Brian Windhorst
They didn't announce the nature of the injury. And look, I respect George's scary Paul. George has to, has to. You know, he has every right to protect his medical information. I get it. But like, I don't know what that injury is.
- [54:55]
Marc Stein
Well, and to say it's arthroscopic, like, at this point, pretty much every knee surgery is arthroscopic.
- [55:01]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, an update and update in 10 months or 10 weeks, not 10 months is, is not exactly a, an encouraging timeline. And by the way, the last update we had on indeed was that his status would be, he would be reevaluated in approximately six weeks and that was in early April.
- [55:23]
Marc Stein
They get reevaluated a lot. You know, you could say he'll be reevaluated.
- [55:27]
Tim Bontemps
I'm just saying that's three. That's three. What I mean, my point is like that's, that's essentially saying we'll hear from you in six weeks and we're 12 weeks later and we've heard nothing.
- [55:36]
Marc Stein
And here's the deal. Even the Plant, like, obviously they didn't plan on these guys continuing to get hurt and having to undergo more surgeries. Like things have gone as wrong as they possibly could, pretty much. But even the plan they had going into last season, Bon temps, that you were writing about at their training camp in your tropical location that you were milking the company dime on, like, dude, their whole plan was, yeah, we're going to load, manage these guys. You know, they'll both play 50ish games and then voila, we'll be ready to.
- [56:10]
Tim Bontemps
Go for the playoffs. Yeah, that was the whole plan with.
- [56:12]
Marc Stein
Like, how were you going to establish any kind of chemistry with that plan? And now it's like, if they can play, if they can get 50 games out of these guys, I think that would be a remarkable accomplishment.
- [56:24]
Tim Bontemps
And they have had some good news on the margins. Like Jabari Walker on a two way is a really good deal. VJ Edgecomb, I think is going to be a good, I mean the top.
- [56:31]
Marc Stein
Sixers kept their pick and moved up those great dudes.
- [56:35]
Tim Bontemps
That's right. No, they've had, they have had a good off season from that standpoint. But it, you know, Daryl's, Daryl's quote might have been obvious, but it's also very true. Like they're only going as far as those three guys. And if you're A Sixers fan, you're looking at it going, man, if this team could be healthy for one year, this is the year they might have the most talent in the East. If they're healthy now, again, right now, we're certainly not looking at them like they're going to be healthy. But that's where, like, if you're a Sixer fan, like, after all this time, all these other situations fall away. We're sitting here. We could have a golden opportunity, and we're sitting here where there's no telling when either of these guys will be able to play.
- [57:13]
Marc Stein
And there's no way to pivot because the, like, you are. You are committed, stuck, however you want to put it with Joel Embiid and Paul George is the foundation of that team. Because those contracts are so far underwater, there's no way to flip them for value. And it's, you know, for so long, like, teams were plotting. The Knicks were plotting. Other teams were like, hey, you know, isn't B gonna. Isn't B. Gonna ask out of Philly? And, you know, getting him locked up on that extension was seen as this great accomplishment. Unfortunately, it's not paid any dividends.
- [57:50]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, Joel bead's got four years and about $240 million, give or take a couple dollars left, and Paul George has got three years and about $160 million, give or take a couple dollars left. That's $400 million in seven years of contract in those two guys, and we don't know when they're going to play.
- [58:08]
Marc Stein
Yeah, it's tough.
- [58:10]
Tim Bontemps
Hard to win that way.
- [58:11]
Brian Windhorst
All right, well, McMahon, you have to do NBA today, and, Bontemps, you have family wedding to get to.
- [58:17]
Marc Stein
Oh, tux. You want a tux?
- [58:19]
Brian Windhorst
Pontus. Yeah. Is this a black tie event?
- [58:22]
Tim Bontemps
It's not a. It's not a black tie event. The wedding is Friday. Rehearsal dinner is later on. Later on tonight. Before. Were we going to talk about McMahon's hometown team before we went.
- [58:33]
Marc Stein
You have to wear shoes at this wedding or can it.
- [58:36]
Tim Bontemps
Is it. No, it is a. It is a. It is a. It is a shoes wedding.
- [58:40]
Marc Stein
Okay. No, no. Mid range shots. Toes got to be covered up.
- [58:43]
Tim Bontemps
No, no, no, no Mid range shots. No.
- [58:47]
Brian Windhorst
Oh, my God.
- [58:48]
Tim Bontemps
That is true.
- [58:49]
Brian Windhorst
All right, well, yes, we had. Just. Before we go, McMahon, your team had a. An unfortunate announcement that Derek Lively.
- [58:57]
Marc Stein
They're. They're not my team.
- [58:58]
Brian Windhorst
I apologize.
- [58:59]
Tim Bontemps
Trust me.
- [58:59]
Marc Stein
They don't claim me.
- [59:00]
Brian Windhorst
I understand. You're your hometown.
- [59:02]
Marc Stein
No, just. Look, man. Derek Lively. The surgery happened a while Ago, the Mavericks.
- [59:08]
Brian Windhorst
That's what I thought. Like, this is not something would have.
- [59:11]
Marc Stein
We talk about like these, the Memphis Grizzlies, medical, medical releases and, and the Sixers, the Mavericks just don't do them because this is the second surgery to a starter this summer that, oh, hey, didn't hear about that from the team, but Derek Clavley had to get bone spurs cleaned up in that foot. And, and this is the foot where, I mean, they really just botched this thing last year, put this guy in some serious jeopardy, you know, when they thought it was a sprained ankle ends up being a stress fracture, which they discovered after he had been cleared to come back. He did come back late in the season, then needed this surgery to clean up. Now he's supposed to be cleared for camp. Obviously, we're going to be monitoring that situation. Anthony Davis, with the surgery to repair detached retina is supposed to be ready for camp again. We'll monitor that situation. And then obviously Kyrie, you know, Nico Harrison said during one of his, you know, one of the in game interviews, I think, I think it was on NBA TV that he's ahead of schedule. I'd heard the same, but I, I don't want people to be confused with Kyrie's ahead of schedule in his rehab to thinking, okay, hey, he's back in January. You still got to err on the side of caution. With a guard in his mid-30s coming off a torn ACL, he's going to miss at least half the season. And that's why, like when, when there's all this conversation, are the Mavericks contenders? Are the Mavericks contenders? Like, man, let's revisit that when we see Kyrie back in form and, you know, hope that these other guys are able to get healthy and stay healthy because unfortunately, Anthony Davis has a long history of durability issues. And as bright of a young talent as Derek Lively is, he's had a lot of trouble staying on the floor in his first two years.
- [61:05]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, a lot of players have bone spurs. It's sort of a, you know, every player who has an MRI would see bone spurs. So it's probably a good thing they got it dealt with. But, you know, dealing with it so young is a little worrisome, but. All right, hopefully he is back. Hopefully there's some good news from the Mavericks. We stopped getting hearing about surgeries and hopefully you have a great time at the wedding this weekend. McMahon and I called you Bond temps on freaking NBA Today this week. I mean, I, I am, I couldn't tell you how bad I am in need of of deep of unplugging vacation.
- [61:40]
Tim Bontemps
Vacation.
- [61:41]
Marc Stein
You might have called me worse before, but only when you're really, really bad at it.
- [61:46]
Brian Windhorst
Well, stick around. All right. Thank you to Jackson for putting this together. Thank you to Bontemps for his going above and beyond from Portugal for the last two weeks. Thank you to McMahon for being on the west coast for days on end.
- [62:00]
Tim Bontemps
Listen, McMahon got up early to do the pot today. This is far earlier than the usual, especially after pickup time clock.
- [62:06]
Marc Stein
I had breakfast first too.
- [62:08]
Tim Bontemps
Wow.
- [62:10]
Brian Windhorst
He was. Let's put it this way, McMahon has used some Icy Hot today after.
- [62:17]
Marc Stein
Oh yeah, I'll be walking in the NBA studios with a some icy hottest cologne for sure.
- [62:24]
Brian Windhorst
That'll really get him on Shumpert excited. All right.
- [62:28]
Marc Stein
I didn't get a fist bump from him that everybody.
- [62:30]
Brian Windhorst
Thank you for watching listening to the Hoop Collective. Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you next week.
- [62:35]
Marc Stein
Adios amigos.
- [62:49]
Tim Bontemps
You've seen the headlines, heard the debates.
- [62:52]
Brian Windhorst
Some say the three point ball has.
- [62:53]
Tim Bontemps
Created a monotonous rhythm to the game. Has the three pointer ruined basketball?
- [62:58]
Marc Stein
And how did we get here?
- [63:01]
Brian Windhorst
The rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric Kansas genius named Martin Manley, who whose story didn't turn out quite the way he imagined.
- [63:11]
Tim Bontemps
I decided I wanted to have one of the most organized goodbyes in history and I think I will be successful.
- [63:17]
Brian Windhorst
30 for 30 podcast presents a brand new original series, Chasing basketball heaven, available July 22. Wherever you get your podcasts.