← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Donovan Mitchell’s Career Moment + Full Conference Finals Previews & SGA’s Historic MVP
01:01:23
Hoop Collective: Donovan Mitchell’s Career Moment + Full Conference Finals Previews & SGA’s Historic MVP
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- [00:01]
Harry Douglas
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your
- [00:15]
Tim Bontemps
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- [00:17]
Harry Douglas
worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online@statefarm.com like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening. Joining us from New York City, where the Eastern Conference finals will begin on Tuesday night is Tim Bontemps, Cav's Corner
- [00:44]
Tim Bontemps
sending a New York City led by its hero Brian Lindhurst on the ground.
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Harry Douglas
Will they send 25 buses of Cavs fans to New York, to the Garden?
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Tim Bontemps
Doesn't matter. They've got their fearless leader on his way here. That's all that matters.
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Harry Douglas
Joining us from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, where earlier this evening he attended Shai gilgeous Alexander's official MVP press conference and he will be at game one of the Western Conference finals on Monday is Van McMahon.
- [01:11]
Van McMahon
Howdy, partners. I would say 25 busloads of tickets at the Madison Square Garden prices that I saw online. If Dan Gilbert does that, I will be awfully impressed.
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Harry Douglas
Well, let's just say that Dan Gilbert had skin in the game in a Pistons Cav series.
- [01:26]
Van McMahon
And hey, I am. I'm happy for Donovan Mitchell. He finally gets that curse off his back. I've never been to a conference finals and he gets to fulfill his dream of playing playoff games in Madison Square Garden.
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Tim Bontemps
You know, he's done that before.
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Van McMahon
What do you think?
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Harry Douglas
They lost in a playoff series to the Knicks.
- [01:43]
Van McMahon
Oh, there you go. There you go.
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Harry Douglas
Three years ago.
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Tim Bontemps
But he has been to the conference finals for the first time.
- [01:48]
Harry Douglas
I gotta tell you, this was a very difficult series to get your arms around. Cavs Pistons as the second round comes to an end on Sunday night, the Cavs winning Game 7 in Detroit 125 94. The Cavs lost Game 6 at home by 21 points on Friday in a wet noodle performance where Detroit looked like the team that was playing in the elimination game. And the Cavs look like they were playing a regular season game. And then it was the Cavs who absolutely played with vastly different force, vastly different focus. And it was the Pistons weaknesses that were brought to the fore, particularly the lack of any ability to help Cade Cunningham on offense for a seven game series where the last three games Were determined were won by the road team. It was a curiously non dramatic finish. Bon Temps. I don't know if I've ever seen a series quite like it. Certainly we have seen over the last decade road teams. I believe there's been more Road Game 7 victories over the last decade than there were like the 30 years before it. Road victims are winning more, but not in a situation like this where you see an absolute annihilation. And the Cavs deserve credit. They played their best basketball when it mattered. But if I was a Pistons fan, I would be pretty upset by the way this one went down.
- [03:24]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, look, the Pistons kicked away a chance to end this series in game three. Those Kate Cunningham turnovers and they kicked away game five. And it's very hard to win a series when you.
- [03:34]
Harry Douglas
Well, their fans would argue that the referee in game five was. Was.
- [03:38]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, look, yeah, I mean they. They should have got that call. I mean, that call looms even larger now, obviously. But at the end of the day, they were all. And I was leading the charge certainly on how they got screwed on that call. But they were up nine with three minutes to go and they had a ton of turnovers and blew the game. And Kate Cunningham had those three turnovers in 35 seconds or whatever it was in Game 3 when they had a chance to go up 3 0. Series would have been over. They lost that game. And you know the Cavs, Donovan Mitchell had the one great half in this series. Mostly stunk otherwise, certainly compared to what his standard is. And he was the best player on the floor by a mile in this game. And to McMahon's point, this was easily the biggest moment of Donovan Mitchell's career. Like if they lose this game as the more talented team going into the series and they blow game six at home and they lose game seven to Detroit and they go home. There were massive changes ahead for the Cavs pretty clearly. And I would have been a big mark on Donovan Mitchell's resume to not get this series done. And I think the opening couple minutes of the game, him immediately attacking and not like trying to draw fouls or not trying to do anything else but getting in the paint. Creating buckets for Jared Allen, who was awesome. Creating a bucket for Evan Mobley, who was awesome in this game, I think it really set the tone. It caused the Pistons bigs to sort of start getting panicky about what the Cavs bigs were doing. That opened up stuff on the perimeter and it snowballed from there. But he was the best player on the court, which is what you need to have in a do or die game like this. And it's going to be a really long and really fascinating summer for Detroit, who had a great season. Breakout year, even more so for Kate Cunningham. Obviously a breakout year for Jalen Duran, but his free agency is going to be fascinating. The extension discussions for Assar Thompson are going to be fascinating. And if you watch the pistons in these 14 games they played in the playoffs when frankly, if Franz Wagner had gotten hurt, I don't think they would have beat Orlando. This is a team that's pretty far away from being a true contending team. And Trajan Langan's done a really good job his first couple years. But this is where the challenge of going from a rebuilding team to a real contender, this is the really hard part, is trying to get from good to great. And the Pistons have a lot of work to do to make up the ground on these other teams in the East.
- [05:51]
Van McMahon
Yeah, and I'll just be like fully transparent. I got to watch the first couple minutes before Shays press conference started and then by the time I got out of there, it was halftime. And so I saw very little of this game that was actually relevant. But having said that, like, listen, the concerns about the Pistons roster obviously reared their ugly heads during the playoffs and that is just the lack of creation outside of Cade Cunningham and honestly just the lack of like offensive talent outside of Cade Cunningham. You know, Dennis Jenkins is a nice young player. He's a success story of a dude who broke in the league as an undrafted two way. You know, he's not going to be your, your secondary playmaker. Jaden Ivey was supposed to be that guy that unfortunately and quite obviously did not work out. There's a glaring hole on this roster and Asar Thompson doesn't profile to be that type of player. Jalen Duran is a, you know, as Bond. Timps called him a dependent offensive player. I, you know, I, I'm, I would as the stock dips. I'll still buy Janitor in stock but you know, he's never going to be a guy like you run offense through. You know, they, they still have flexibility, they still got a bunch of picks. There's still ways to do it. But you know, as much as I've compared them to the Thunder a couple years ago, even after Jalen Williams came up short in that second round series against the Mavericks, which wasn't as long as this series, but I would argue was a more competitive series against a better team, you still felt like, hey, Jalen Duran can be that secondary guy,
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Tim Bontemps
you know, Chet Holmgren, Williams, you mean.
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Van McMahon
I'm sorry, Jalen Williams can be that secondary guy. Chet Holland, you know, like you felt like, hey, they, they, I think they have their big three. You don't, you don't look at the Pistons and feel that way.
- [07:46]
Harry Douglas
Okay, so, yeah, we'll talk about the Cavs just more in a second. But just to, in this particular game, Kate Cunningham had a bad three point shooting night, which happens. He was.07 on them. And when he's not hitting a three point shot. And the Cavs can pack the pain because they're not guarding a Sar Thompson, they're just not guarding him. There was one time tonight where Asar, where he was being guarded by Evan Mobley and Asar caught the ball from the corner and Mobley just stood on the block and looked at him.
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Tim Bontemps
They, they started, they did that for most of the series, right. I just think, look, not to cut you off, but there's so much, there's been so much talk about a Sar Thompson and I mean there before the season there was talk, well, the Pistons might have to max start Thompson or they're gonna have to give a ton of money. And look, Ike, he's a really talented player. He's a phenomenal defensive player. A guy that bad on offense cannot be, in my opinion, a starter on a championship level team. You just can't be. Unless he gets a lot better on offense because he's such a zero. And if you're playing 4 on 5 on offense to this degree, this late in the playoffs, it's, you know, game seven of the conference semifinals in the conference finals. It just doesn't work. You can't be that much of a liability at one end of the court or the other. Like we've talked about it so many times, so much of the playoffs is about not having a, a giant weakness for the other team to exploit at one end or the other. Could be a guy who's a really talented offensive player. Say Trey Young is one example the other way, right? Phenomenal offensive player, zero at the other end. Like it makes it such a challenge to build a competitive team around that. And particularly with the, where the league is at now from a shooting standpoint. That's where I just really wonder what Detroit is going to do going forward. Because if Assar is going to be a key piece for them, it just makes the rest of their build so incredibly hard to be good enough to be a really good team.
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Harry Douglas
Well, you've got to have terrific shooting elsewhere and they just don't have it. Well, and if you're going to.
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Tim Bontemps
And then if Jalen Duran's part of it, I think it's impossible, honestly. Like, I just don't think you can go forward with those three guys as your main guys. That's where you're at.
- [09:50]
Harry Douglas
Jalen Duran had seven, seven points in this game. He averaged less than 10 points a game in the series. Just, it's just backbreaking. I mean, they get to seven, game seven, which is, in all honesty, the arguably the most important player for the Pistons in this series after Cade Cunningham was Duncan Robinson. Because Duncan Robinson forced floor spreading. When the Cavs won games, you know, won games four and five, it was when Duncan got hurt and when they came back in one game six, it was largely because Duncan, not largely, but significantly, he comes back and hits four threes to help stretch the Cavs defense a little bit. But anyway, Tobias Harris goes 0 of 6 in this game on 4. Unfortunately, his hot streak, which was, you know, the first eight or nine games of the postseason, absolutely withered away. Here are his last four games in this series. 6 of 17, shooting, 6 of 19 shooting, 2 of 7. Although the Pistons won that game, game six, handily, and then tonight, 0 of 6, just not there to provide assistance.
- [10:53]
Tim Bontemps
Well, and again, if you're relying on Tobias Harris to the degree they were where he was their number two scoring option, like, that's not, it's not good enough.
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Harry Douglas
They were close to getting to the conference finals.
- [11:02]
Tim Bontemps
They were close to getting to the conference finals in the completely weak half of the bracket.
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Harry Douglas
Well, anyway, let's just call it Sasser. Marcus Sasser. Who? J.B. bickerstaff. Just searching for a guard who could get some scoring played more and more as the series went along. He goes 3 of 12 in this game. There was just no place for the Pistons to go. It was just, you know, a bad situation. Then on the other side of Cleveland, you know, you mentioned a little bit bun temps, but I think the game plan really, really, they, they had two facets of the game plan offensively. Donovan Mitchell in games five and six, so he had the 39 point half in game four, one of the most remarkable scoring halves in NBA history. In the playoffs in Games 5 and 6, Asar Thompson and Cade Cunningham did a brilliant job on him. They also brought help, but he was 10 of 35 shooting in those two games. Outside the overtime in Game 5 and Game 5's overtime, which with the controversial non call, he made three baskets. But the other, the rest of those games he was non effective. He also, in the previous three games coming into this had only had eight assists total. So he wasn't creating, he wasn't getting his shot going. So they come in tonight and the Cavs want the part of their game plan was to absolutely make sure to get switches to get Thompson or Cunningham off of Donovan. And then when Donovan got that, he really looked for the big men. Yes, he tried to get downhill as you mentioned earlier, but when he got downhill, he looked for the big man. The Cavs just ran some basic high pick and rolls tonight and Donovan was just looking for Jared Allen and Evan Mobley coming off the roll. It was really nothing special. He was just, it was something he hadn't really done and he looked for them. And so you end up with a game where Evan Mobley goes 7 of 10, Jared Allen goes 8 of 14. Donovan has 8 assists, 8 assists the last three games total. 8 assists in this game.
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Van McMahon
8 of 8 off his passes, by the way.
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Harry Douglas
Is that what they were?
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Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I think he had three assists in the first two minutes. So those two guys. And it totally set the tone for the game right from the jump.
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Harry Douglas
So James Harden plays 36 minutes, goes 2 of 10. So he has a non impactful scoring game. But I'm going to tell you something, he only had one turnover in 36 minutes which is a vast improvement. Have none, right? So vast improvement. Those guys taking care of the ball.
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Tim Bontemps
So yeah, I mean James Harden was invisible, which is fine because Donovan Mitchell was Donovan Mitchell, which by the way is what this team was supposed to be the whole time. It was supposed to be Donovan Mitchell looking like a first team all NBA caliber player. And other than that, one half in the series, he just hasn't really been close to that guy. And again, this was the biggest moment of his career and he stepped up and was awesome and was exactly the guy that he was supposed to be. And like as much as everything else that happened, like a lot of times this comes down to the best player, right? And Donovan Mitchell played like the best player and Kate Cunningham did not. And like for everything else that went on that that was a huge part of why the game went the way it did.
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Van McMahon
And Mobley 21, 12 rebounds, six assists, a couple steals, a couple blocks and he was a game best plus 31.
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Tim Bontemps
Yeah, obliterated Jalen Duran, like just, I mean that was a no contest.
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Harry Douglas
Jared Allen, I want to just point out in Game 7 against the Raptors had 22 points and 19 rebounds and then 23 points 137 rebounds in this one.
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Tim Bontemps
Yeah, those guys were great.
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Harry Douglas
The Cavs and I don't like stats where their historic stats would like oh, Oklahoma City has won 14 straight game threes against San Antonio. Well, I don't care about 1999.
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Van McMahon
None of these guys were there for any right.
- [14:38]
Harry Douglas
But I will say it is fascinating that the Cavs have won I think six straight game sevens dating back to remember that game CAVS Celtics in 2008 when the Celtics went game seven in this round and the and it was LeBron had 45 and Pierce had Paul Pierce had 41. Classic round two game. Cavs lost that game seven in Boston. They have not lost a game seven since in six that they've played.
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Tim Bontemps
That's a wild stat.
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Harry Douglas
I think four of them have at least three of them have been on the road, maybe even four of them
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Van McMahon
and more relevant to these Cavs right now. Jared Allen had a reputation as a playoff shrinker, right? I mean what was his quote after his first playoff?
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Tim Bontemps
Something like I didn't realize the lights were bigger.
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Harry Douglas
The lights were brighter than I thought. Something along the lines how bright the lights were. Yeah.
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Van McMahon
And to his credit, you just said what he did in these two game sevens like when they really needed Jared Allen to deliver so far in these
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Tim Bontemps
playoffs he stepped up.
- [15:44]
Van McMahon
He's come through and had big time performances. And by the way, him and Mobley are going to be absolutely critical in this series because if you can take Karl Anthony Towns out of the series, I would say you have to take Karl Anthony Towns out of games to have a chance to win the series. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [16:05]
Harry Douglas
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Tim Bontemps
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Harry Douglas
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Van McMahon
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Harry Douglas
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- [19:14]
Tim Bontemps
I guess it'll be on the ninth day. It's Tuesday, last place Sunday.
- [19:18]
Harry Douglas
OG Anunoby, you know hopefully will be back from that hamstring issue.
- [19:23]
Tim Bontemps
Josh yeah, by all but it seems he'll Be ready to go for game one. Yeah.
- [19:27]
Harry Douglas
So you know, you have one team that's, that's well rested in one team that's coming off back to back seven game series. The Cavs will, you know, have some rhythm. The, the obviously the Knicks Bontemps were playing their best basketball the season. Just blew the 76ers right off of the court. This, this matchup, you know, you know the Cavs obviously they are, they are going to probably try to lean on their front court just as they did in this series because the Cavs front court depth is stronger than the Knicks. But the Knicks front court historically has given these calves problems, specifically Mitch Robinson who has kicked the Cavs in the backside numerous occasions. And so that will be a key I think early thing to look at obviously whether or not the Knicks have, are able to continue to get this. You know, the Knicks offensive production has been dramatically impressive. I would argue that of the eight game of the eight teams left in the second round. Do I want to say this? Do I want to say this? Do the Cavs have the weakest defense? They certainly have the weakest defense of the remaining teams. You know the Cavs defense is going to be stressed against that New York offense. But bon temps. How do you see this shaping up?
- [20:49]
Tim Bontemps
I think the Knicks are pretty heavy favorites with their recent form coming into the series
- [20:56]
Van McMahon
being shifted to the Knicks might be.
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Tim Bontemps
I'm going to pick the Knicks in five. The Cavs have been pretty awful for these three for through these first two rounds of the playoffs. And the irony and they have been like Brian will tell. I mean Brian, Brian's the leader of Cavs corner. Will you not say this has been a very disappointing showing through the first two rounds despite them being in the conference finals. Have they played lower than what your expectations would be?
- [21:18]
Harry Douglas
I mean the thing to point out is they're 8 and 6 so far in the playoffs. If a team is 8 and 6, they very clearly have exploitable flaws. And also there are flaws that you know, undercut them.
- [21:30]
Tim Bontemps
And now that being said, they are. These are the two teams that at the start of the year were expected to be here. That is the irony of the situation. The Cavs and the Knicks entered the season as the co favorites in the east for a reason. They both have a lot of talent. You saw in this Game 7 today, the Cavs played much like the team they were supposed to be. That is why this has been sort of an infuriating run for them because they have not really looked like that team for the most of, most of these playoffs, they have wheezed their way through a Raptor series where the Raptors were all banged up with injuries and couldn't really score. And they then wheezed their way through the series against the Pistons who had one guy who could really handle the ball and often couldn't really score and still almost won the series anyway. But in game seven, you saw Donovan Mitchell look like a star. You saw the bigs play great. They hit shots on the perimeter, they did all the stuff they can do, and they're going to have to play like they did in game seven repeatedly if they're going to beat the Knicks with the way the Knicks are playing now.
- [22:30]
Harry Douglas
Hey, hey, McMahon. Quote Fresh quote from Kenny Atkinson. Oh, the tactical adjustment we made was avoiding a SAR Thompson. We were just like, if he's near the ball, throw it to somebody else. Bond Thompson's like, put him on the bench. Put him on the bench. He's not a starter.
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Van McMahon
But listen. And then, yes, avoid him and fight him. It was avoid him on one end and invite him to shoot it on the end.
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Harry Douglas
That's true.
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Tim Bontemps
It's true. I mean, they should. I mean, they would have been better off benching him, honestly, and playing him in different off the bench instead. But anyway, that's a separate discussion.
- [23:01]
Van McMahon
You know, Tony Allen, one of the all time great perimeter defenders, I forgot where he said this. It might have been when he was doing some podcasts and stuff with Chris Vernon, but he basically said they're getting guys who have jumpers like me out of the league now. And Asar Thompson is a modern day,
- [23:16]
Tim Bontemps
you know, he's a bigger, stronger, faster Tony Allen. That's what he is. And he is.
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Van McMahon
And. And we'll see if he can develop a jump shot.
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Tim Bontemps
The Warriors 2015 title run turned when they were down 21 against Memphis and they started putting their center, Andrew Bogut, on Tony Allen back.
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Harry Douglas
Listen, man, I'll never forget this book that I read when I was a kid about Ted Williams. And Ted Williams said that the pitcher that affected him the most in his career was Bob Feller. That he would think about Bob. If Bob Feller was pitching like game three of a series, he'd be thinking about him before the game one of the series. And so that's the greatest. I thought it was like one of the greatest compliments you could ever give was that Ted Williams, one of the greatest hitters of all time, would be thinking about a pitcher would get in his head two days before he pitched against him I remember when I covered the series, Memphis against Oklahoma City, Tony Allen, this is Durant, like pretty much when he was just ascending into being. I think he, I don't know if he won the MVP that year, but he was that.
- [24:14]
Tim Bontemps
Was that that 2012 series when they had all the overtime series, Overtime games?
- [24:20]
Van McMahon
I think this was the infamous Mr. Unreliable headline series.
- [24:24]
Harry Douglas
That's correct. It's one of the great series I've ever covered. Seven game series, the Thunder one. And, and I remember by game four, because it was in Memphis, Tony Allen had hounded Durant so much that there would be times where Durant would come off. He would run around screens and sometimes they would stagger screens. They would run him off around two screens and Durant would catch the ball. I saw this multiple times. Durant would catch the ball at the top of the key, the screens. Having caught Allen, Allen would be 10ft behind him, 8ft behind him, and Durant would immediately turn his body and protect the ball because Allen had been there so much that he just assumed he would. This is seven foot Kevin Durant. How tall is Tony Allen? 645-6465 Tony Allen. And what I'm saying is this is one of the greatest scores in the history of the game. And Allen, like Ted Williams and Bob Feller, Allen was in his head that he didn't, his defense was so strong that he didn't even have to be there to defend him. And so when you compare somebody to Tony Allen, it is a. Defensively, it is a very high compliment.
- [25:32]
Van McMahon
Asar Thompson is awesome.
- [25:33]
Tim Bontemps
I voted Asar Thompson first team, all defense. He's a tremendous defensive player.
- [25:38]
Van McMahon
Offensively, he's got a lot of room for growth.
- [25:41]
Tim Bontemps
That's all. This is what makes the playoffs so awesome. It's why they're, it's so incredibly fun is as you go through them and you get deeper and deeper into the playoffs, your weaknesses as a team and as individual players really get exposed and there's nowhere to hide. And it, it's what makes getting through the four rounds so fun to watch because you have to watch how teams evolve and react and learn. And you know, Sar, Thompson is still a super young player. He's got a very long future ahead of him. Hopefully he becomes a better offensive player to match how incredibly impactful his defense is because he does some of the most fun defensive stuff you'll see anybody do in the league. But to go back to Cavs Nicks, the thing I'm going to be really interested in is Donovan Mitchell and James Harden have looked tired at times during this series and during this run. They've had to play every other day for a month. As you said, they've had to play two seven game series. The Knicks are very rested. The Knicks have a lot of guys they can throw at both of those guys and the Cavs, ironically, the guy who's probably best suited to guard Jalen Brunson on the Cavs is Keon Ellis who's barely played. Other than that, they don't really have a lot of guys to throw at Jalen Brunson and they have. And you know, again, like you, we talked, we just talked about a Sar Thompson. Between him and Jalen Duran and some of these other guys. The Pistons have several guys that they could sort of just ignore right when the Knicks are rolling out there. Assuming OG is good and by all indications he'll be ready to go for game one. Like you can maybe ignore Josh Hart, but Josh Hart is a terrific creator shot creator. He gets into paint, he creates shots for other guys. But especially if they, you know, if they bring in Landry Shammond off the bench, they bring a deuce McBride off the bench. Like the Knicks are an offensive juggernaut, especially the way they're playing and with the perimeter guys the Cavs have, the Knicks can really take advantage of that. I think so to me this is about can Donovan Mitchell and James Harden play at a high level consistency consistently, which I think they're going to need to in the series. And what are the Cavs going to do to try to slow down Jalen Brunson? Because it's got. That to me is going to be a real challenge for them based off the personnel they're going to have out there.
- [27:49]
Van McMahon
Well, and the strength of the Cavs defense is obviously they're two big guys is Mobley and Allen. And against the Pistons, Mobley and Allen could pack the paint and basically just put a wall around the rim. And you, you know, you cannot do that. Especially against the Knicks starting lineup where they've got self proclaimed greatest shooting big man of all time. And you know they can, they can put five guys out there that you know, even Josh Hart, you have to respect him as a three point threat.
- [28:20]
Tim Bontemps
I mean he shoot 39% from three this year. That's been one of the huge revelations of the season.
- [28:24]
Van McMahon
And Cat, you have to fear as a three point threat, you know, if Anunoby's health, you have to fear him
- [28:29]
Tim Bontemps
as a three point threat.
- [28:30]
Van McMahon
They can, so they can spread the floor where that that's the biggest weakness of the Pistons is just that you can really clog things up for them on the defensive end.
- [28:42]
Tim Bontemps
And the Knicks also have a lot of guys to throw at. Donovan Mitchell, too. In particular, I think between Mikael Bridges and Hart, they could put McBride on him a little bit, maybe even try to put OG on them. Like, they got a lot of guys they could cycle through and wear on him and, you know, he was incredible today, but he's got to be like he was in Game seven, I think, consistently if they want to beat the Knicks.
- [29:03]
Harry Douglas
Donovan and Harden were both very. Have been both very up and down in the postseason. Now, what the Cavs might say is that's the point, is that they have the two of them to share the ball handling, to share the offensive creation, to share the, you know, getting hammered and going to the basket to share all that stuff so that they have the redundancy. That's what they would probably say is the whole point of this is that Donovan doesn't have to be great because a couple years ago, like against Boston, he was trying to carry them and he eventually broke down in the series.
- [29:36]
Van McMahon
I don't know that he has to carry them. He has to be great, though.
- [29:40]
Tim Bontemps
He's got to be a lot better than he was in the series. He. He's got to. He can't be. He was a passenger for a lot of this series. He's got to be doing what he did today. Doesn't have to. He doesn't have to be necessarily the best player on the court, but he's like, he was just not very good. But again, by Donovan Mitchell standards, his standards very high.
- [29:58]
Harry Douglas
He had a 31 point game, a 35 point game, a 43 point game, and then today he had 26, seven rebounds, eight of six.
- [30:06]
Tim Bontemps
Today was truly that one half the 39 point half in the 43 point game. And today were the two times you were like, donovan Mitchell looks like the guy on the court. And like, for them to beat this Knicks team, I think he's got to play like that a lot more than twice. He's got to be really good.
- [30:23]
Van McMahon
Probably three or four times at least.
- [30:25]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [30:26]
Harry Douglas
Well, we'll be charting that series very closely. I will be joining Bontemps for that series.
- [30:34]
Van McMahon
You guys just have fun together.
- [30:35]
Harry Douglas
Yeah, that's some Cleveland days coming up. Some big Cleveland days.
- [30:39]
Van McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [30:45]
Harry Douglas
Pool days call for cookouts and lots
- [30:47]
Van McMahon
of laundry this Memorial Day at Lowe's. Save $80 on a Char Broil Performance Series 4 burner gas grill. Now just one. $199 plus get up to 45 off. Select major appliances to keep dishes, clothes and food fresh. Having fun in the sun is easy with us in your corner. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through 527 while supplies last selection varies by location. See associate@lowe's.com for details. You thought this was your run club era. Turns out it was more of a
- [31:17]
Tim Bontemps
thinking about Run club era.
- [31:19]
Harry Douglas
The good news?
- [31:21]
Van McMahon
Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll
- [31:28]
Harry Douglas
take care of the rest.
- [31:29]
Van McMahon
They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now Depop where taste recognizes taste no one goes to Hanks for spreadsheets.
- [31:46]
Harry Douglas
They go for a darn good pizza. Lately though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice.
- [31:53]
Van McMahon
He asks copilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs and help him see if he can afford it. Copilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now Hank says a line out the door. Hank makes the pizza, Copilot handles the spreadsheets.
- [32:10]
Harry Douglas
Learn more@m365copilot.com work foreign. McMahon While you were While Bon Temps and I were keeping a very close eye on this game, I missed the Shea press conference. So now you can tell us what was going on while game seven was happening.
- [32:32]
Van McMahon
You know, just. Just kind of your typical Shay MVP press conference. A lot of the same stuff as last year. Express great appreciation for everybody from the top of the organization on down, the fans, et cetera, et cetera. Quite a. A nice gift for his teammates. Actually there was a gift basket. I got the complete list here. The Asham's. But all these guys show up, you know, they flank them on the I guess stage, wherever you want to call it the press conference. And they've all got these trench coats.
- [33:05]
Harry Douglas
How did Shane know he was winning the mvp?
- [33:07]
Van McMahon
Like I. I guess he. He did a lot of shopping after Shams tweeted it this morning.
- [33:12]
Harry Douglas
Maybe. Maybe he read the straw poll from Bontev.
- [33:15]
Van McMahon
Has that been a foregone conclusion for a while?
- [33:18]
Harry Douglas
Bontemps what was the straw poll results versus the Shea?
- [33:22]
Van McMahon
88 to 83 I believe was the first place votes. Is that correct?
- [33:27]
Tim Bontemps
I had this up earlier and then I took it down. Let's see the I want to say it was like a 13 point difference.
- [33:34]
Van McMahon
Yeah, 88, I think, was in the. In your straw poll. He ended up with 83 first place, folks. Yeah.
- [33:38]
Tim Bontemps
And he had 958 total points in the straw poll. And in the. This one, he had 939.
- [33:47]
Van McMahon
Yeah. I mean, and look, Shea finished the season strong and obviously was the clear front runner going in that. But, you know, all these guys end up, or they show up wearing these trench coats. And so my one question during the press conference, I was like, what's up with the trench coats? I thought there was like some great symbolism. It was just like, no, we're a fashion conscious group and these are Burberry. And he said he was glad to see everybody's trench coat fit with the exception of Chet. I. I've never seen a trench coat look like a crop top before. But this thing barely. I think it barely covered. Like, maybe it went down to his waist. So are you sure Chet didn't.
- [34:23]
Harry Douglas
Chet, being the swag master that he was, didn't take a scissors to it and say, I want to make this my own.
- [34:29]
Van McMahon
They're gonna. They're gonna get one customized to Fit Shed. He said. He said he might have to get them too, but he. Sean sent me the list of his gift baskets. I'm gonna botch the pronunciation. You know, these fancy AP watches are the Audemars Piguet or something. I don't even know how to pronounce it.
- [34:44]
Harry Douglas
Audemars Piguet. That's not bad. Not a bad pronoun. That's a pretty nice watch. That's, you know, probably engraved with, you
- [34:50]
Van McMahon
know, with JP26 on the back. Customized PXG golf bags and sets. Is that good? Wendy?
- [34:58]
Harry Douglas
PXG is. I didn't know Shea was a golfer.
- [35:03]
Van McMahon
He's also not a drinker. But they got Custom Don Julio 1942 bottles and custom Levi's.
- [35:09]
Harry Douglas
Canadian, I would rely on you. I know you're not a spirits man, but I don't know. I don't know what kind of beverage that PXG is a. You know, it's a mid scale brand of clubs.
- [35:19]
Van McMahon
Parson Donald Julio, 1942. Some of the good stuff. I mean, you know. Well, I won't.
- [35:25]
Harry Douglas
Can you comment on the Burberry trench coats? What? Can you. Oh, no.
- [35:29]
Van McMahon
That Burberry I know is high fashion. We can't afford it. But, you know, Shay's got a Levi's deal.
- [35:33]
Tim Bontemps
Custom window purchase Levi's.
- [35:35]
Van McMahon
Canadian tuxedo sets that are customized with their numbers stitched on them.
- [35:40]
Harry Douglas
That's actually pretty cool.
- [35:42]
Van McMahon
Some new stuff, some iPhones, some cologne, some other stuff.
- [35:45]
Harry Douglas
So, you know, Shay.
- [35:46]
Van McMahon
Shay takes care of his teammates. And he did. He thanked his teammates for setting all the screens and, you know, pass him the ball. He said, even though I never passed you. But. So, yeah, celebratory mood. But also like, you know, hey, let's smile and enjoy this tonight. But they know they got their hands full tomorrow.
- [36:09]
Harry Douglas
Hey, do you remember a couple years ago when Embiid won the MVP and Harden gave him, like, the super sweet Rolex was, like, worth tens of thousands of dollars. A lot of times Harden gives nice presents. What was.
- [36:21]
Van McMahon
Oh, when he gave little baby the. The honey buns. I mean, and by honey buns, we mean $100,000.
- [36:28]
Harry Douglas
There's got to be more to that story. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, here this is Shay giving gifts. But I mean, like, Harden gave gift to Embiid. Like, how's that. How's that work?
- [36:41]
Van McMahon
Well, Shay's. She's doing pretty well for himself. But, you know, this is interesting. When I think MVP and Spurs, obviously, I first flashback to David Robinson getting the mvp.
- [36:58]
Harry Douglas
This is exactly what I was thinking about. In fact, I have the game up. Keep going. I have the game up.
- [37:06]
Van McMahon
So David Robinson, this was 95. Correct me if I'm wrong.
- [37:09]
Harry Douglas
That's correct.
- [37:10]
Van McMahon
And it was. He got the mvp. And it was. Was it in the middle of the series when.
- [37:15]
Harry Douglas
It was before game two.
- [37:18]
Van McMahon
Okay. Before game two of the series.
- [37:19]
Harry Douglas
And now let me just set the scene here real quick.
- [37:22]
Van McMahon
Okay.
- [37:23]
Harry Douglas
Rockets win the 1994 championship. Hakeem is the MVP of that season. The first year Jordan's playing baseball. 95. They come back, they are playing the Suns in the second round. They fall down to the Suns 31 and then win the last three games of the series. Win game seven by a point. I don't remember how they won game seven by a point. San Antonio is the number one seed. David Robinson is. Had a brilliant year. The Rockets are in to play games one and two of the Western Conference finals. And I was 17 years old. I remember this series vividly. Before game two at that had to have been the Alamo Dome, right? McMahon Alamo Dome the Alamo Dome. David Stern. In fact, I went back and watched the video tonight of David Stern handing Robinson, making a statement, handing him the trophy. Now you may take over the story.
- [38:23]
Van McMahon
And Akeem Olajuwon went out in game two. And this is one of the most famous One on one playoff matchups in an individual game that you'll refine. He completely just dismantled David Robinson and it was essentially a statement saying, you think that's the most valuable player in the league? Let me show you and leave. 0.
- [38:49]
Harry Douglas
41 points, 16 rebounds, no threes. Boy, he's down, he's. He stunk. David Robinson had 32 and 12. Wasn't like he got shut out. But if you've ever seen the highlights of Akeem's the Dream Shake and he was.
- [39:06]
Van McMahon
You've seen it from that game where
- [39:07]
Harry Douglas
he was getting Robinson off balance and everything like that.
- [39:11]
Tim Bontemps
I just went and looked up one of my favorite stories I ever wrote was in 2017, man. And I cover Rocket spurs series. The infamous Rocket spurs series for some people. Because that was when Kawhi Leonard didn't play in Houston in Game 6 and James Harden in one of his many playoff no shows did not show up in game six. I was gonna say why didn't play
- [39:33]
Van McMahon
and Harden didn't show.
- [39:35]
Tim Bontemps
That's right. But during that series or during those playoffs, I wrote about this series and I talked to Hakeem on the phone for the story. Him and David Robinson and Hakeem. I was just looking at my story now where you guys were talking and Hakeem claimed to me on the phone that he, that the awarding of the MVP had nothing to do with his performance in that series and the way it went. And I, and I, I just politely listened along and included the quote for context and said, sure, well, and Wimby
- [40:08]
Van McMahon
might make a similar claim tomorrow, but
- [40:11]
Tim Bontemps
I don't think he will. I think he only said.
- [40:13]
Van McMahon
I don't think.
- [40:14]
Tim Bontemps
I think he'll just say that he should have won it.
- [40:16]
Van McMahon
But. And there's a couple differences here. Number one, Akeem was fresh off winning the championship, right. Whereas Wimby, this is his first taste of the playoffs and Shay's on his fresh off winning championship. That's the first. And then obviously that doesn't matter to
- [40:31]
Harry Douglas
Victor though, but go ahead.
- [40:32]
Van McMahon
I know. And then obviously, you know, this is not a one on one matchup. These aren't two bigs matching up. Now, is Wimby like the. Will he have a lot to do with the defending of Shea? Absolutely. Shay's probably not gonna have a whole lot to do with the defending of Victor Womenyama, but you know, it's the two faces of the franchise on. These are the. This is the first time we've seen two teams with, with this many wins play each other since I Believe the. The last Bulls Jazz finals. But I got to talk to Shea for a little bit after his press conference today, and the majority of it's first stored that are run either late this round or early in the finals,
- [41:14]
Tim Bontemps
depending on
- [41:17]
Van McMahon
our buddy Matt Tumbelson, the VP of Propaganda for the Thunder. He said, seven, ten minutes.
- [41:24]
Harry Douglas
We're big fans of Teddy Tumbleson.
- [41:27]
Van McMahon
Well, we're fans of the old man, too. Yeah, because he said seven to 10 minutes, and I took 14. But. And he said at the end, he said, tim, we got to go. I said, one more. And I asked. I said, listen, man, in so many words. I said, you know, Wimby's gonna see this, and he's gonna be. He's gonna feel a certain kind of way and like, you know, basically, what do you. What do you expect, you know, going in that series tomorrow? And he said this. In this profession, in this league, guys are extreme competitors. You don't make it to be this good in this league if you're not a competitor and if you're not super confident in your ability and if you don't think the highest of yourself. That's how you achieve things. You have to think before you achieve it. It's no different for him. And he said, obviously, he presents things that you've never seen, so the challenge is obvious. Everyone knows the challenge, and none of this stuff matters if you don't win. So he's basically, you know, he's not talking trash. He's basically saying, I understand the guy thinks he's the best player in the league, and we understand the challenge and he'll let his game do his talking. From that point out, as Shay would say, bon temps.
- [42:34]
Harry Douglas
Were you surprised at all that Victor finished third in the MVP voting behind Jokic? Nothing against Jokic.
- [42:41]
Tim Bontemps
I wasn't that surprised.
- [42:43]
Harry Douglas
You gotta remember Victor surprised. That's what. That's what I wanted.
- [42:45]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, Victor, I'm sure, was surprised he didn't win, but I. I remember the Nuggets ended the season winning, I believe, their final 13 games in a row.
- [42:54]
Harry Douglas
That's correct. You're right.
- [42:55]
Tim Bontemps
We had Victor second and Jokic third, basically with the same totals reversed. But that was before, I believe that was the Friday before that incredible game that the Nuggets won against the spurs on either Saturday or Sunday of that second to last weekend of the regular season, when Joker had, like 40 points,
- [43:15]
Van McMahon
13 assists and zero turnovers and hit the crazy somber shuffle in overtime over Victor.
- [43:20]
Tim Bontemps
So I'm not shocked it went that way. I mean, Again, what. The only thing that mattered was that Shea was going to win in a walk, which is what he did. And I mean, look, I. This series has got a chance to be an all time great series. I spent a weekend talking to a bunch of people in the league for story that's going to run Monday preview in the series. It's sort of from what people in the league are going to be watching and we talk to a lot of people for stories and different things in the league. I've rarely had people be as excited to talk about something as they were to be breaking down this series. And like, from a pure basketball perspective, this series has everything you could ask for. I think from a conference finals standpoint, it's automatically the best series since one Tim and I covered a decade ago between the warriors and Thunder, which looked like it was going to be the start of an unbelievable rivalry and obviously was immediately short circuited by Kevin going to the other team. I don't think we have to worry about that dirt. I don't think I have to worry about Victor or Shay doing that this time around.
- [44:24]
Harry Douglas
Oh, no.
- [44:25]
Van McMahon
And that's what's so great. These teams are going to be meeting in the playoffs, I would say most years for the next eight to 10 years.
- [44:33]
Tim Bontemps
At least that's what somebody said to me for the story. They said. The thing that I'm most excited about, about as a basketball person is that these teams are going to be going head to head and have having to almost certainly beat one or the other to get through or one of them is going to have to win against the other to make it through for maybe the next decade. And I mean, they were. They brought up Magic and Bird. They brought up Jordan against the Celtics and the Pistons. They brought up a Bird Magic comp.
- [44:58]
Van McMahon
Who would make that except for, by the way, Chet's not part of that comp.
- [45:02]
Tim Bontemps
Well, no, this was just about the teams. Like it's, it's just, you know, it's.
- [45:05]
Harry Douglas
Boy, am I glad I went two years, three years ago and watched Victor's first game against Chet in the preseason.
- [45:11]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, it's. It's incredible. You discovered Victor and Chet. You brought him to the masses. You've brought so much joy to all of us. It's going to be an unbelievable rivalry going forward. Say what you want.
- [45:21]
Van McMahon
This is, you know, Wendy was in, on the ground on, on Wemby, except
- [45:26]
Tim Bontemps
he's not covering the series. It's such a, it's such a sad thing. He should be, should be wrapping Them in a loving embrace before this massive serious thing.
- [45:32]
Harry Douglas
There ain't no love.
- [45:33]
Van McMahon
Or where the espn, you know, studio shows go. Not his fault. He'll get it every other year.
- [45:39]
Tim Bontemps
It's true.
- [45:40]
Harry Douglas
This quote from a assistant coach that you had in your story Bon Temps was I think one of my favorite and really I think is a fair sort of assessment is the way the league kind of looks at this. Shea is bleeping good, but he ain't a cheat code. Wemby is a cheat code.
- [46:00]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [46:00]
Van McMahon
And this is, this series is a clear cut opportunity for Wimby to say, hey, I told you and I'm showing you I am the most dominant player in the league. It's my league now. He has that chance to crab it and say it's my league now because right now it is Shay's league. He's Back to back MVPs with a Finals MVP in between. Wimby's got a chance to take it.
- [46:27]
Tim Bontemps
And if Victor takes this one, if Victor takes this one, you might, we might just be a rat for a long time because like these guys are just getting started. Yeah.
- [46:37]
Van McMahon
And the spurs obviously coming with a ton of confidence in part based on the regular season success that they had where they go four and one against the Thunder, you know, three, three and one against. What I would say like is a, the real deal Thunder with Shay in the lineup a huge part. You know, we, we just talked about Asar Thompson and, and his, the fact you don't have to guard him being
- [46:59]
Tim Bontemps
such a factor in that series.
- [47:00]
Van McMahon
A huge part of the Thunder success was being able to pack the paint and say, you know, Shay, you're not going to beat us. Other guys are going to have to beat us. And basically giving invitations to Alex Caruso, to Case and Wallace and to Lou Dort to shoot threes. Caruso and Wallace were both 5 of 21 from 3 point range against the spurs this year. Dort was a little bit better. Door was 8 of 21, which isn't bad, but that it was. There are the Thunder offense wasn't very good with Dort on the floor. You know, you remember Christmas where I think Caruso, I believe he missed his first 10, first nine or 10, but ended up 2:12 in that game from three. Now I think that you, you'll, you'll see a lot of that. Again, having said that, there's risk involved in that because Caruso, Wallace and Dortmund are exactly 40% from three in the playoffs. They're 40 of a hundred. So they're 40% at volume. And Caruso, he hasn't been a good three point shooter in the regular season with the Thunder. He's shooting it better than 40% in playoff games with the Thunder. So, you know, I think those guys, those, their defensive stoppers performance as shooters I think is going to be a huge factor in the series.
- [48:16]
Harry Douglas
Another thing that you wrote about here in your piece and you quoted some scouts on was the matchup spawn temps. And you know, in the last series, the, you know, we talked about it leading up to this, but in the last series the Timberwolves spent quite a bit of time putting Rudy Gobert on Steph Castle. And you know, Castle hit some shots in that series.
- [48:41]
Van McMahon
It didn't go well for him in the finale, that's for sure.
- [48:44]
Harry Douglas
But this, some people you talked to suggested that Shea could start on Castle and that Chet Holmgren would start on Julian Champagne, who also hit some shots.
- [48:56]
Tim Bontemps
The biggest question, I mean really on both sides, it's just going to be interesting to see how everybody matches up off the jump, right? So let's just go right to the very opening tip of the series last year. Mark Dagnault went away from Isaiah Hardenstein in game one and went small to start the series. Went back to the normal starting lineup they have in game four. I didn't like that at the time because the Thunder were the favorites going into the series. And it reminded me of when the 07 Mavericks reacted to the we believe warriors and went small and were like reacting to the lower seed. Even though obviously the Pacers were a great team. I'm not denigrating them, but the Thunderwear 68 win team, they won playing one way. I thought it was an admission of weakness walking into the series like, well, we can't play the way we're going to play. It'll be interesting to see which way they go to start the series. Like will they try Isaiah Hartenstein in the starting lineup from the beginning? And who will he guard? And do you try him on Victor to start? Do you try to put him on Steph Castle to start? Do you try to put him on Champagne to start? What do you, where do you put Shay? Where do you put Chad Holmgren? Can the, can the Thunder get away with playing two bigs against the Spurs? If not, that obviously changes things. If they have to go small, if they have to have just Chad out there, then can chat, stay out of foul trouble. Like you said on the other end, like what can, what ways can the, what ways can the Thunder sort of do different things to try to get Victor Wembanyama out of Shai's way and out of these other players way to be able to create space. Do you do what a lot of times what the Wolves did and try to get bodies on them? Do you try to play five out as much as possible and try to space the floor even more? There's just so many little tactical wrinkles in this series with these two teams with the amount of depth they have. And the other thing that came up a ton was the sheer amount of ball pressure that the Thunder play with and the relentlessness they attack on the perimeter with. And how will the spurs guards, and in particular how will Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper handle that? Because those guys have been incredible and they've, their development has been a remarkable thing and it's for as incredible as Victor is, it's really the development of those guys, which is why this team is where they're at. Because those guys are so far ahead of schedule, maybe even more so than Victor. But this is a different challenge like going up against this Thunder team and the amount and case in Wallace and Lou Dord and Alex Caruso are all top 10 perimeter defenders in the league and they're all going to be out there for 48 minutes a night. So how are they going to hold up against that over the course of seven games? Because as one person said, if you could take care of the ball against these guys, you've got a chance. But anytime you give up anything to them in transition and you give up fast break points, it turns into turnovers like we've talked about a hundred times. It's just death to you if you're giving up fast break transition, you know, points off turnovers to the Thunder.
- [52:00]
Van McMahon
Well, and that's one thing that was remarkable to see during that, that stretch of the three games and 12 nights when the spurs won all three. And you know, it was, you know, a relatively healthy Thunder team is, is just how unbothered their young guards in particular seemed by the pressure. I mean, Steph Castle was 20 points shooting 55% from the floor, 43 from, from three point range. You know, he has basically 20 and five. And then, you know, Dylan Harper didn't shoot it as well. But you know, there were times where he looked like just a poised vet. And you know, at a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio, Fox played well in those games. It's a different beast in the playoffs. I, I get that. But it was surprising to me to see just how comfortable they felt against the best defense by a significant margin in the league. I by the way, I'd be surprised if if Shea starts out on Castle. I don't think the Thunder want to give Shade that physically taxing of a primary defensive assignment. Like Vassell can get hot Champagne can be a laser from three when he gets going, but it's not the same kind of just physically taxing assignment to guard one of those guys. My guess is Shay's going to get one of those guys.
- [53:30]
Tim Bontemps
I would guess you're right. And it also like I said, some of it just will come down to who do they decide to start. Like do they decide to go small right off the bat and do they play Case and Wallace instead of Hartenstein?
- [53:39]
Van McMahon
Hey, do they decide to start Jalen Williams coming back off this hamstring which also true, he felt good enough to play in game four and obviously up three zero. They're going to take it easy with him and be cautious. You know, he's been out since what, April 22nd. So I can't do the math.
- [53:58]
Tim Bontemps
That's 25 days.
- [54:00]
Van McMahon
Yeah, three and a half weeks or so. But do they put him right back in the starting lineup? You know, especially as well as A.J. mitchell is playing, you know, what's his minutes limit? You know, these are things that I assure you Daggerholt's not going to reveal pregame. We can ask. We will not get very far with that. But you know that that's part of it because as much as we talk about Wallace and Dort and Caruso, Jalen Williams was an all defensive player last year and he's he's maybe their most versatile defender. The only reason I say maybe is because Caruso is so versatile but he's a huge part of their defensive success as well.
- [54:39]
Tim Bontemps
Obviously the spurs deserve a ton of credit for their performance against OKC this year and I I was at the NBA cup game where they obviously played great and won and Victor came back from the injury and played then. It is worth pointing out though just to go back to like how much different this could be than those matchups. You want to know per our guy stats, Williams, who guarded Victor the most in those games in the Thunder spurs games this season?
- [55:06]
Van McMahon
Kenridge Williams.
- [55:07]
Tim Bontemps
Kenridge Williams is the answer. And Kent Williams is a nice player. I suspect he's not going to see very much time.
- [55:13]
Van McMahon
He hasn't been in the playoff rotation this season. So.
- [55:16]
Harry Douglas
Correct.
- [55:17]
Tim Bontemps
So right.
- [55:17]
Harry Douglas
Well one of the methods, I mean I think we're headed for a spot with Victor where it becomes Like Shaq, where for different reasons, there's no real one method that you have that is effective. It's guarding against him.
- [55:32]
Tim Bontemps
I think we're already there now, like in doing this in, in the section of the story like I wrote about, the thing people immediately came up with the most was how were the guards going to play? Like is the thing to watch. Like I just asked everybody, like, what's the biggest thing you're watching going into the series? The biggest thing most people said was, well, how are the guards going to handle it for the spurs and are these young guards going to be up to the challenge? Because it's a huge challenge on a big stage and they haven't been here before. And the most fun thing people had to talk about though was what is the Victor versus the Thunder chess match going to look like and how are they going to try to create space for Shay? And some of it is Shay is probably best mid range shooter in the league, I would say. And that's a weapon that if you're not getting to the rim but you're getting to the mid range, that's a way to get up some clean looks against Victor, at least in theory, kind of.
- [56:22]
Harry Douglas
Because Victor can, can defend the rim and defend, I mean he can defend
- [56:27]
Tim Bontemps
all over the place.
- [56:28]
Van McMahon
But some of the jump shots that Victor blocks, it's like how the hell did he get to.
- [56:34]
Harry Douglas
Right. I mean, that. Look, I don't want to over analyze the series before it begins. We'll have plenty of time to talk about it. But you know, Shay's bread and butter is getting to the elbow area, creating space and shooting well. He creates space largely. Sometimes he creates space with the dribble, but largely he creates space with his physicality, with his arm. And sometimes he gets to the foul line while Victor doesn't have to touch him to defend him.
- [57:01]
Tim Bontemps
Right.
- [57:02]
Harry Douglas
And he can, he can come in and defend the shot very effectively. That said, Shay's skill development and honing his ability to hit that 18, 15 to 18 footer from all angles from different balances, from, you know, the elevating the ball, different angles, like he's a master at it. And he may have in the arsenal the ability for all I know he's been practicing shooting over 7 foot 5, whatever his wingspan is, maybe he'll bring that out. But you know, the ground, the defense radius that Wembanyama covers is outside the bounds of the normal thing that you deal with.
- [57:50]
Van McMahon
No, it's unprecedented. Forget outside the bounds. We've never seen anything like that before.
- [57:55]
Tim Bontemps
Not.
- [57:56]
Van McMahon
Not with that wingspan and that athleticism and those instincts. We've never seen this before.
- [58:03]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, and that's why there was, you know, some people were saying, hey, you've got to do some version of what. What the. The Wolves did, and you've got to be really physical with them and get. Get into those guys and make it hard. Other people said, look, you've got to run as much as possible and make him guard in transition and try to wear him down. Like, one thing that's going to be interesting is, you know, the spurs have done a really good job of managing Victor's minutes all season and, like, not having him play huge minute loads. I'm not saying he's incapable of playing huge minutes loads, but if he has to play 36 to 40 minutes every other day with no break for two weeks against a team that's going to be flying up and down and playing at a fast pace and pushing the tempo and doing that over and over and over again and probably banging on him and having Lou Dort lean on him and Jalen Williams lean on him and Isaiah Hartenstein lean on him, like, over and over again for seven games. Is he going to get tired? Is he going to wear down? Like, how is that going to go, like. Because, yeah, he is. Like. The perfect analog for this spurs team is the 1995 Magic, who before that year had never won a playoff game as a franchise and then made the NBA Finals, but they lost to the defending champion Rockets in a sweep. But they. They were. They had a. Obviously a young Shaq, who's probably the best analog to Victor that we have, even if it's not perfect. They had young Penny who is like Steph Castle in terms of this young superstar rising guard, and they had no playoff experience, really, on their team. They had a couple guys with some, but their main guys had none, really. And they all of a sudden just burst through every ceiling and made the fights like that. And I think the Victor and young Shaq comparison is apt in a lot of ways. And like, that there's not a way to stop this guy. It's just how can you try to slow him down enough to give yourself a chance to win?
- [60:03]
Harry Douglas
All right, well, we're going to be watching it very closely.
- [60:06]
Van McMahon
Playoff experience things. Funny, because that. That was the big flaw that everybody was picking out with the Thunder at this time last year.
- [60:13]
Harry Douglas
I have yet to see, other than Victor losing his cool and slamming an elbow that cost his team a game, I believe I have yet to see Many indications that the spurs cannot handle this situation.
- [60:27]
Tim Bontemps
Well, this is when we're going to find out. Like, they played, they played an overmatched team in the first round and they played an injured team in the second, and they, they bounce. They've handled it perfectly. But this is, this is a different level.
- [60:40]
Van McMahon
This has all the ingredients to be just an absolutely epic series and an epic rivalry.
- [60:46]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's. I mean, this, this has a chance to be one of the two or three best rivalries in the history of the Sport. Like, these two teams going at it for the next five to 10 years, like, it's, it's all, it's all sitting there.
- [60:59]
Harry Douglas
There are still a lot of casual fans who haven't seen Wembanyama play that much. They may have seen highlights of him play, but I suspect especially with the Western finals on NBC, it will get a bigger audience. It will all be on broadcast.
- [61:15]
Van McMahon
It's a show.
- [61:16]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, it's a show.
- [61:18]
Harry Douglas
I would expect there to be more casuals that understand what we have here, but we don't have casuals on this podcast.
- [61:26]
Tim Bontemps
This is a huge moment for the league. Like this, you know, really going all the way back to 2016 when Durant left. Like, things have just been kind of off kilter and for different reasons. And we haven't really had, you know, the, the next couple of years. Even when the Cavs and Warriors played with Durant there, it just wasn't. There weren't really competitive series. Nobody really thought the Cavs had a chance to win those series. This, this is really the first time since 2016 when you're going into the series, it's like these are two potentially all time great teams, and I have absolutely no idea how it's going to go. Like, I'm going to pick the Thunder to win, but I don't, I don't feel great about it. Like, I certainly think the spurs can.
- [62:06]
Van McMahon
And what's awesome is they're both ascending teams.
- [62:10]
Tim Bontemps
Yes.
- [62:10]
Van McMahon
They're both around guys who are superstars, who are getting better with supporting stars, who are getting better.
- [62:17]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, Shay's 26, McMahon 27. I mean, he's. And he's the old man of the
- [62:23]
Van McMahon
group and he gets better every single year.
- [62:26]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [62:27]
Van McMahon
And Mindy is just.
- [62:29]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, it's got a chance to. This, I mean, it's truly got a chance to be an all time iconic rivalry. And it's. We're at the start of it.
- [62:37]
Harry Douglas
All right, here we go. All right. Thank you so much. To Jackson and Mark, our producers. Thank you to McMahon and Bontemps, thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you as this conference final season unfolds.
- [62:50]
Van McMahon
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