Emergency Pod: HISTORIC NBA Draft Lottery – Mavs’ CRAZY Jump

Summary

Podcast Summary: Emergency Pod: HISTORIC NBA Draft Lottery – Mavs’ CRAZY Jump

Podcast Information:

• Title: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
• Host/Author: ESPN, NBA, Brian Windhorst
• Description: Brian Windhorst and a team of ESPN's Insiders sort out life in and around the NBA world.
• Episode: Emergency Pod: HISTORIC NBA Draft Lottery – Mavs’ CRAZY Jump
• Release Date: May 13, 2025

---

Introduction

In this special emergency edition of The Hoop Collective, ESPN’s Brian Windhorst hosts Tim MacMahon and Mike Wojnarowski to delve deep into the unprecedented events of the 2025 NBA Draft Lottery. The episode focuses on the Dallas Mavericks' surprising leap in the lottery standings, the implications of recent NBA lottery rule changes, and the broader impact on the league's competitive balance.

---

Mavericks' Historic Lottery Jump

Brian Windhorst opens the discussion by highlighting the Mavericks' unexpected rise in the draft lottery, a move that has sparked numerous conversations and conspiracy theories within the NBA community.

Brian Windhorst [00:25]: "We had to break him off from doing the Knicks Celtics playoff game in the John Condon press room at the Madison Square Garden."

Tim MacMahon suggests skepticism regarding the integrity of the lottery system, hinting at possible manipulation favoring the Mavericks.

Tim MacMahon [01:08]: "The conspiracy theory in 10 seconds would be that a team whose fan base had completely turned on and shut off the franchise was just given a complete lifeline by getting a generational prospect."

Mike Wojnarowski addresses the rumors directly, dismissing the notion that the Mavericks are relocating to Vegas and clarifying the real conspiracy theories at play.

Mike Wojnarowski [01:16]: "There might be a bunch of conspiracy theories out there, but that dumbass one about the Mavs moving to Vegas I think went kaput tonight."

---

Critique of the NBA Lottery System

The trio extensively critiques the recent changes to the NBA lottery rules, which were intended to reduce tanking by flattening the odds. They argue that these changes have backfired, leading to a concentration of elite draft picks among teams that do not necessarily deserve them.

Tim MacMahon [02:34]: "The NBA changed lottery rules a few years ago to flatten the lottery odds and make it less advantageous for teams to tank. It's been a colossal disaster and a complete failure."

Brian Windhorst counters by suggesting that the system might be working as intended, though MacMahon vehemently disagrees.

Brian Windhorst [03:05]: "I think they like."

Tim MacMahon [03:05]: "I disagree because if you're a Utah, let's, let's just take the Utah Jazz."

The discussion highlights how traditionally middle-tier teams have been winners in the lottery, securing top picks despite not being the worst teams, thereby undermining the draft’s intent to distribute talent to the most in-need franchises.

---

Mavericks' Selection of Cooper Flag

A significant portion of the podcast focuses on the Mavericks securing the first overall pick to draft Cooper Flag, a generational talent expected to rejuvenate the franchise.

Mike Wojnarowski [06:14]: "I've not been told with 100% certainty. We're drafting Cooper Flag, right."

Tim MacMahon emphasizes the strategic importance of drafting Cooper Flag for the Mavericks' future.

Tim MacMahon [07:52]: "The bad vibes around the Mavs disappeared the second day they won the lottery. They can reset everything."

The team discusses the potential impact of Cooper Flag, comparing his two-way talent to that of Kawhi Leonard, and speculating on his marketability and leadership qualities.

Mike Wojnarowski [08:19]: "If Cooper Flag is the player everybody believes he will be, he's going to be an extraordinarily marketable guy."

---

Spurs' Number Two Pick

The podcast shifts focus to the San Antonio Spurs, who have also made a significant jump in the lottery to secure the second overall pick. Wojnarowski and MacMahon explore the Spurs' potential strategies with their new pick, considering options like drafting Yanis Antetokounmpo alongside Victor Wembanyama.

Mike Wojnarowski [16:02]: "If you're asking about Giannis for the Mavericks, which I would be shocked by. I wouldn't be shocked if San Antonio uses this pick in a Giannis deal."

Tim MacMahon offers a critical take on pairing De'Aaron Fox with Giannis Antetokounmpo, suggesting it may not be an ideal fit.

Tim MacMahon [16:31]: "My hot take would be that De'Aaron Fox and Giannis would not be a great fit together."

The discussion also touches on the Spurs' possession of multiple draft picks, providing them with flexibility in shaping their roster for future competitiveness.

---

Potential Expansion Implications

The conversation extends to the broader implications of the draft outcomes, particularly concerning NBA expansion. Brian Windhorst theorizes about how Cooper Flag's rise could influence expansion dynamics, potentially benefiting teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, as they vie for placement in the Eastern Conference.

Brian Windhorst [25:23]: "And now you're thinking about when there's expansion because when there's expansion, Cooper Flag potentially in two years could be a monster."

Tim MacMahon concurs, identifying Minnesota as the most logical candidate for East Conference realignment post-expansion.

Tim MacMahon [26:28]: "It's going to be Minnesota."

---

Other Teams' Situations

The podcast briefly examines the turmoil within other franchises affected by the new lottery rules, including the 76ers, Wizards, and Jazz. The failure of these teams to secure significant draft positions despite strategic tanking underscores the perceived flaws in the lottery system.

Mike Wojnarowski [12:30]: "They're just like, sure, okay, they have to trade Donovan. We all know that thing was coming to a head."

Brian Windhorst adds perspective on how teams like the Wizards have been negatively impacted, illustrating the unpredictable nature of the current lottery system.

Brian Windhorst [27:33]: "I saw Will Dawkins. He gave an interview real quick to Josh Robbins from the Athletic. And what Will said was, you come in knowing there's a 50% chance you're going to be five or six."

---

Concluding Remarks

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the chaotic nature of the 2025 NBA Draft Lottery and its ramifications for the league's competitive landscape. They anticipate further developments and strategic moves from the Mavericks, Spurs, and other affected teams in the lead-up to and following the draft.

Brian Windhorst [31:09]: "Well, until we meet again, we'll talk to you on the hoop collective."

---

Notable Quotes

• Brian Windhorst [00:53]: "The Mavericks jump in the lottery is crazy because of the storylines more than the odds."
• Tim MacMahon [02:34]: "It's been a colossal disaster and a complete failure."
• Mike Wojnarowski [06:14]: "We're drafting Cooper Flag, right."
• Tim MacMahon [16:31]: "De'Aaron Fox and Giannis would not be a great fit together."
• Brian Windhorst [25:23]: "Cooper Flag potentially in two years could be a monster."

---

Key Takeaways

1. NBA Lottery Rules Backfire: The recent changes intended to discourage tanking have resulted in unexpected outcomes, with traditionally mid-tier teams like the Mavericks and Spurs securing top picks.
2. Mavericks' Strategic Leap: Drafting Cooper Flag is seen as a pivotal move to revitalize the Mavericks, positioning them as strong contenders in the Western Conference.
3. Spurs' Flexibility: With the second pick, the Spurs have multiple avenues to enhance their roster, though some, like pairing with Giannis, may present challenges.
4. Expansion Considerations: The draft outcomes may influence future NBA expansion and conference realignments, potentially benefiting teams like Minnesota.
5. Competitive Balance Concerns: The unpredictability and perceived unfairness in the lottery system raise concerns about the overall competitive balance of the NBA.

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Hoop Collective provides an in-depth analysis of the 2025 NBA Draft Lottery, emphasizing the significant shifts in team fortunes and the broader implications for the league. Through insightful discussions and expert opinions, Brian Windhorst and his guests shed light on the complexities and controversies surrounding the current NBA lottery system.

Transcript

[Unknown Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Brian Windhorst]

Foreign welcome to this emergency edition of the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA McMahon somebody's got another book coming out joining us at Madison Square Garden. We had to we broke him off from doing the Knicks Celtics playoff game in the John Condon press room at the Madison Square Garden.

[Tim MacMahon]

Timbuantemps book is going to be on the fixed 2025 lottery if my text messages are anything to say about it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he's soon to get on the plane for Oklahoma city for game five of the Nuggets Thunder series band McMahon Howdy Partners.

[Wojnarowski]

Listen, there might be a bunch of conspiracy theories out there, but that dumbass one about the Mavs are moving to Vegas I think went kaput tonight.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, let me ask you this because my phone is blowing up too. What is the conspiracy? I mean I know the conspiracy theory is that allegedly was fixed for the Mavericks. Please explain the conspiracy to me.

[Wojnarowski]

I mean the conspiracy is that. Look, okay, I don't want to explain the conspiracy.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I understand.

[Tim MacMahon]

We can explain conspiracy. The conspiracy theory in 10 seconds would be that a team that's fan base had completely turned on and shut off the franchise just was given a complete lifeline by getting a generational prospect to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Show up immediately after the fan bases in Washington and Utah and Charlotte that have to shut off that franchise. Those.

[Tim MacMahon]

I have a very long speech about the lottery rules, but I will save that for a second.

[Wojnarowski]

Wendy, we there's a little bit of a difference between hey your team's just been bad and or recently got bad has been bad for a little while versus you traded a generational player months after the finals as he's approaching his prime. And there's one thing if it's apathy but the outrage was in Dallas was pretty unique. Having said that, I don't want to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Discuss heard some Richie conspiracy theories. I think people we don't need we don't need to spend I'm just saying let's talk about it's not a logical conspiracy theory.

[Tim MacMahon]

Ok so here's here is the logic.

[Brian Windhorst]

Here's the logic.

[Tim MacMahon]

The NBA changed lottery rules a few years ago to flatten the lottery odds and make it less advantageous for teams to tank. It's been a colossal disaster and a complete failure. And this today is the nail in the coffin to me for this whole thing that they have put in place. Look at the teams that got the first, second and third picks. Those are teams that have playoff caliber rosters that were in the lottery because they had injuries.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yep.

[Tim MacMahon]

And in the Mavericks case, they had to trade. And then also catastrophic injuries. Right. You have a situation where you have multiple bad teams that were trying to get high draft picks for the past couple of years to get the kind of player that could turn their franchise around. They're picking fifth and sixth in the draft. You have teams that already have loaded rosters getting elite prospects in this draft. Like the bottom line is.

[Brian Windhorst]

But isn't that the press?

[Wojnarowski]

Hold on, like, hold on.

[Tim MacMahon]

The NBA, several.

[Wojnarowski]

The NBA did discourage tanking. So if you're in the league office, you said, hey, you chose to tank ride to. We've outlawed it, we've tried to discourage it.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think, I think this means it's working. I think they like.

[Tim MacMahon]

I disagree because if you're a Utah, let's, let's just take the Utah Jazz.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim MacMahon]

The team with the number one lottery odds in the draft.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

They got miserably miserable luck.

[Tim MacMahon]

They have no chance to get a player like Cooper Flagg unless they win the lottery. And they did everything by the book in terms of giving themselves the best chance to do so.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's not true. That's not true. No. They had, they had two all NBA. They had two all star players that they traded and they went down this path to tank.

[Wojnarowski]

I mean, yeah, they did everything by the book, but the book has been banned. The tanking book is. You can't get it at the library anymore. It's been banned.

[Tim MacMahon]

Look, I don't see how we could sit here today and say that after several years in a row of the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th teams in the lottery jumping into the top 1, 2 or 3. Last year the 10th team in the lottery won. The lottery was not a good draft. So people didn't really talk about it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Don't this year like, so what you want were the Mavericks 10th or 11th this year. So they were 11th.

[Wojnarowski]

Yeah. One of the only chance, moving up.

[Brian Windhorst]

10Th and 11th team won back to back years. And the teams, those teams weren't tanking. The teams that blatantly tanked lost. Yes.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm saying that for small market teams, the draft is the, is There one consistent and reliable way to get access to elite players and the new system. There's a reason why Sam Presti went on a crusade to try to not have the rules be changed several years.

[Wojnarowski]

Because he was tanking at the time.

[Tim MacMahon]

Because if you're in Oklahoma City. Well, yeah, listen, he was not tanking at the time when they first tried to do it. It was when they had Kevin Durant on the team. And if you are in Oklahoma City, the draft is the one way you have a chance to get elite players. You can say, clearly it's not.

[Wojnarowski]

They have a guy named Shay Gilgames Alexander who was a 10th pick in a draft and that they traded for. So you can. You're telling me it's the one way when they have a guy who's probably going to be named MVP on their roster. That is proof otherwise. What are you talking about?

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I would just say the reason this, this lottery is crazy is because of the storylines.

[Wojnarowski]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

More than the odds.

[Unknown Advertiser]

The storylines of the Dallas.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, do you think McMahon, instant reaction here. You think they're keeping Cooper Flag, Right? You're keeping.

[Wojnarowski]

Listen, do I think so? Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I would just say Kyrie's going to be messed up.

[Wojnarowski]

I've not been told. With 100% certainty. We're drafting Cooper Flag, Right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Cooper Flag.

[Wojnarowski]

I would say never say never. Because I didn't think.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because they can't trade Luca and Cooper Flag same calendar year, Right.

[Wojnarowski]

I wouldn't think so. I didn't think they were going to trade Luke, despite understanding all the frustration there was. So my assumption is you, you draft this generational talent who would be number one in the vast majority of drafts. You know, and by the way, I just. I'm however many weeks removed from really kind of pressing Nico on the long term logic of the Luca trade. What about these picks you traded 27, 28, 29, 30. Well, this kind of mit, buddy. This mitigates that concern. Doesn't totally eliminate it, but it certainly mitigates it. And also, you know, the, the other thing that honestly I think was, had really cranked the heat up on. On Nico Harrison to the point where like I was sniffing around after the season, like, is his job in immediate jeopardy? The answer was no at the time, but it was the business ramifications of Luca deal. The fact that they could, you know, they were projecting.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. That's all wiped away.

[Wojnarowski]

And Cooper Flag is going to be an extraordinarily. First of all, we. If Cooper Flag is the player everybody believes he will be he's going to be an extraordinarily marketable guy. And folks who might not have wanted to renew their season tickets are probably ringing up the ticket office right now.

[Tim MacMahon]

The bad vibes around the Mavs disappeared the second day won the lottery. I'm not saying they, I'm not saying it. Luka Donchi is going to be forgotten. But they got Cooper Flag. They can reset everything. There's a reason why Rick Welts had a joker like grin sitting at his seat.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because he's got a marketing of the Mavericks.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's right, the guy who's in charge of selling selling tickets for the team and selling a new arena and everything, all that stuff, and they fell ass backwards into the solution to all their problems.

[Wojnarowski]

If the Mavericks have a sense of humor, the highlight reel they put out on social media and all that after they draft Cooper Flag is going to be nothing but defense. Defense wins championships and that dude can definitely play some defense. I mean honestly, the comp one of the comps I've heard for him is a Kawhi Leonard type of two way talent.

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean look, he's an incredible fit next to Anthony Davis. Long term like it's, it's a, it's a dream landing spot for them.

[Wojnarowski]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you're on a business trip, you know what goes completely off the rails? Your workout routine.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Especially when you book a hotel that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Doesn'T have a gym. So what ends up happening is you do a few push ups and sit.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Ups in your room, run around the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Block or just skip it entirely.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Lame.

[Brian Windhorst]

If you just stay at A La.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Quinta by Wyndham, you'll discover there's a fully equipped fitness center at every location.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now you can wake up and power.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Your buys and tries right away or de stress with some cardio. The choice is yours.

[Brian Windhorst]

Tonight La Quinta. Tomorrow you shine book [e-mail].

[Unknown Advertiser]

In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants. The ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota, a new Generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.

Vivid Seats is your ultimate destination for basketball and hockey this season. They make it easy for every fan to watch their favorite teams and players in action. Catch every one timer and buzzer, beating three live and in person from your favorite seat. Plus, every ticket is backed by a 100% buyer guarantee, giving you peace of mind with every purchase. As the official ticketing partner of ESPN, we're excited to offer you 20 DOL off your first 200 ticket purchase with code HOOP. That's code HOOP. So visit vividseats.com or download the app today. Vivid Seats. Experience it live.

[Tim MacMahon]

And my point on the draft, to which I don't think you guys got, is to distribute talent to the worst teams. In theory, if you're having a draft, that's the point of the draft. And by making it well in the lottery, you're.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're one of the worst teams.

[Tim MacMahon]

But okay, I mean, to sit here and act like Philly, San Antonio and Dallas were among the worst teams is foolish. Do you want to get rid of the lottery?

[Wojnarowski]

But you want to get rid of the lottery.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's why they call it the lottery.

[Tim MacMahon]

Also, like, dude, the tank continues to.

[Wojnarowski]

Be a major, major, major problem in the NBA.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes. This just made it worse. Well, all of these teams tanked down the stretch, and the Sixers case flagrantly.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the Sixers are a different story. We haven't even talked about them yet.

[Wojnarowski]

Right. Utah, Washington, the. The. The full season franchise strategy tank jobs have not been rewarded. And if you're Adam Silver and you're in the league office, I think your answer is, listen, we flatten the lottery odds to discourage you from taking. The Utah Jazz chose to do it anyways. That's your.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're not supposed to trade Donovan Mitchell and Rudy go fair. They got their stars.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay, so they're never allowed.

[Wojnarowski]

They're just like, sure, okay, they have to trade Donovan. That. We all know that thing was coming to a head. Donovan did not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, but they didn't have to trade him for. For to. To tank. They could have traded him for assets that could have played.

[Wojnarowski]

Yeah. And they.

[Brian Windhorst]

And listen, I mean, okay, I'm not even criticizing that. Like, they probably did the right thing, but, you know, like, the whole point of this is that you don't want to reward a team's going for 15 wins.

[Wojnarowski]

And tanking was the right strategy and it was a risky strategy. You can say this is bad luck for the Jazz. It was also, by the odds, the most.

[Brian Windhorst]

I saw an interview real quick with, by the way, the Wizards got screwed too. They fell from number three to number six here, number two to number six, not number three.

[Wojnarowski]

Both of them were worst case scenarios.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I saw Will Dawkins. He gave an interview real quick to Josh Robbins from the Athletic. And what Will said was, you come in knowing there's a 50% chance you're going to be five or six. You have to accept that that was.

[Tim MacMahon]

Of course, of course, of course.

[Brian Windhorst]

So you know, that is painful, but I am. It is a unusual set of circumstances and it is probably not healthy for the league. That, that's my point.

[Tim MacMahon]

This is, it isn't, this isn't a healthy system for the league at this point every single year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. But I don't think, I don't think tanking is healthy for the league either. Let's move past that. The Mavericks wake up with a whole changing situation still. Kyrie is going to be out for most of next season, so I don't know how it's going to affect next season. Let's talk about the spurs getting this number two pick if anybody is screaming real quick.

[Wojnarowski]

One thing I will say about the Mavericks is they are also pretty well positioned to be aggressive in the trade market and Nico has made it clear he thinks he has a championship caliber roster right this. And let's go with the assumption they take Cooper Flag. Let's go with the assumption that they make the obvious decision there. They've got some interesting trade pieces. They can trade one of their own first round picks, I believe 20, 31, they've got some swaps. They've got the Lakers 29. Daniel Gafford's going to the last year of his contract. We've discussed him as a potential trade ship. You know, PJ Washington, similar situation contractually. It, you know, is he a guy who maybe you explore the trade value of now that you have Cooper Flag coming in, presumably walking right into a, a starting position at small forward. There are a lot of interesting scenarios for the Mavericks to discuss and explore leading up to the draft thing.

[Brian Windhorst]

They have craved Giannis for a long time. They one, one time head Costas on their roster. Is that still, do you think, a driving force here?

[Wojnarowski]

Well, it's, you know, it's AD and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kyrie are in their 30s.

[Wojnarowski]

I heard you meant. I'm not going to say the thought didn't cross my mind. I definitely heard you mention that. I will point out that it was the previous regime that Drafted Giannis's little brother with the last pick in the draft where they got some Slovenian dude and then a guy, I think the other guy that got in the dress playing for the Knicks now. Yeah. Luca Brunson.

[Brian Windhorst]

Successful evening.

[Wojnarowski]

One would say Luca Brunson and Adam Koopa was. It was their draft haul, so. But that was, that was the Cuban Donnie Nelson regime. Again, I'm never going to say never because I've, I've learned the hard way not to assume. I would be awfully surprised if. Especially because Patrick Dumont has to sign off. I think Patrick Dumont's got a lesson in NBA business.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, we need to move on. So the spurs now, if anybody's going to be screaming, scream about the spurs three consecutive years in the top four, Victor Castle and now number two pick here. If you're screaming conspiracy, I mean if they're going to fix the number one pick, you got to stop with the conspiracy.

[Wojnarowski]

We don't need to fuel conspiracy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Understand?

[Tim MacMahon]

Got it.

[Wojnarowski]

Why are you yelling at me?

[Brian Windhorst]

Because I'm just.

[Tim MacMahon]

He's making jokes. Let's just move forward.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm just saying like you can't. I'm just making the point that you move past it. You can't just conspire for the number one pick. You also must conspire for all the picks. Right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Just move past it.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so the spurs now with the number two pick, Yan is potentially available. Giannis potentially amazing fit next to Victor. Andy, Aaron Fox. But you draft a 19 year old that fits a lot closer to. If you want to. You keep Castle and Victor together. It's an amazing situation for the Spurs. They now have picks two and 14. Man Alive, that could be a real choice.

[Tim MacMahon]

My hot take would be that de' Aaron Fox and Giannis would not be a great fit together and that I would consider trading Deer and Fox personally if I was dispersed now and I would roll forward. With the super young core you've got, you would have Dylan Harper be the long term point guard with Victor Lemon Yam. At least, at least think about it. I mean I, I mean, dear Fox, I, I didn't love to do. I mean we talked about the time. I didn't love the deer Fox at the time. I'm sure they're not going to trade them but.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I'm okay with the. I thought the trade, I thought the.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Trade was good value.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know about signing him to a max contact extension. That's what I mean.

[Wojnarowski]

That was part of the trade.

[Tim MacMahon]

Let's. Yes, you're you're trading, you're. You're picking him as one of the core guys you're rolling with. That's what I didn't really like. And look, Dylan Harper, I think it's got a chance to be a monster player. I mean, six, six guard and handle the ball like pretty intriguing fit with Victor long term.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, but. Okay, but remember, you got to sell that to number one.

[Wojnarowski]

Well, also, if you're asking. Yeah. If you're asking about Giannis for the Mavericks, which I would be shocked by. I wouldn't be shocked if San Antonio uses this pick in a Giannis deal. And then, you know, if you use this pick in a Yanis deal, you. You can probably hold on to some stuff down the road. You know, I'm just saying, if you've got a. If you've got that mix and, and just the Giannis Wimby fit and knock on wood, that you know that. That Wimby's fully healthy next generator role. But to pair Giannis with that, I mean, like, Wimby is everything that Brook Lopez is and a whole lot more, but just in terms of like the spacing monster rim protecting fit. Oh, my goodness.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Mavericks just put out a press release. The Dallas Mavericks announced today that they have moved up to the first overall pick.

[Unknown Advertiser]

I'm glad they.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm glad they announced that they. Thank you for announcing that. This is the first time in a franchise history that Dallas has moved up and win in lottery position. Wouldn't one argue that it was due? All right.

[Wojnarowski]

Yeah. They're like, hey, we lost out on Shaq and we had. We were awful. Like, come on. We were. We're doing this one more Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Unknown Advertiser]

If you want tools that stand the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Test of time without testing your wallet.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Harbor Freight is the place for you. Expert engineers design and rigorously test Harbor Freight tools to bring you top quality, whether your next project is big or small. Harbor Freight carries a wide selection, from.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hand tools to power tools to automotive.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Tools and welding equipment. With prices lower than other top brands.

[Brian Windhorst]

But with the same top quality, you're.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Getting more for your money at Harbor Freight. There are over 1,500 Harbor Freight stores in the U.S. so come see for yourself.

[Brian Windhorst]

Whatever you do, do it for less at Harbor Freight.

[Unknown Advertiser]

For men, dealing with ED can be uncomfortable, which is why HIMSS provides access to a comfortable solution with an all online process and personalized treatment options. HIMSS is changing men's health care by providing you with access to affordable sexual health treatments from the comfort of your couch. HIMS provides access to a range of doctor trusted ED treatments like chewable tablets, Viagra and Cialis and their generics for up to 95% less.

[Brian Windhorst]

The process is 100% online, so there's.

[Unknown Advertiser]

No need for uncomfortable doctor's visits. Just fill out an intake form on their site and a medical provider will determine the right treatment option. If prescribed, your medication ships directly to you for free. No insurance is needed and one low price covers everything from treatments to ongoing care. With hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers, HIMS can help you find the ED option that works for you. Start your free online Visit [e-mail] hoopp.

[Brian Windhorst]

That'S H I M S.com hoopp for personalized ED treatment options.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Hiss.com hoopp the featured products include compounded products which are not approved or nor verified for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important safety information. Price varies based on product and subscription plan Introducing Skims Men's Where Comfort Meets Style A new era of men's essentials has arrived. Designed to fit your life, your body, your day. From the moment you slip on their pieces, you'll feel the difference. Made with premium fabrics that stretch, breathe and move with you, Skims Men's is about more than just clothing. It's about confidence and comfort, looking good and feeling good no matter what you're doing. Whether you're working out, relaxing at home or heading out, their collection has you covered. Their pieces are designed to adapt to your lifestyle. Soft, durable and with a fit that feels tailor made. Simple Skims Men's is about freedom. Freedom to move, to live, to be yourself. With a range of styles, from everyday basics to more elevated pieces, you'll find everything you need to look and feel your best. Skims Men's isn't just about looking good, it's about feeling good all day, every day. Elevated essentials that work with your body, not against it. Join the movement. Discover the new standard in men's clothing Shop skims [e-mail] and skim stores. Let them know we sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select our show from the dropdown menu that follows. Skims is the official underwear partner of the NBA, WNBA and USA Basketball.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, the big situation that happened other than the mavericks was the 76ers going up from fifth to third. And the reason was, by the way.

[Tim MacMahon]

The Top Sixers could only keep their pick when the two teams behind him jumped. If they jumped up, that's Right. This was the scenario the Thunder needed. They needed.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. So I want you to think about being in the room, so I'm sure we'll hear about this later. But the first pick is the Mavericks pick. So the Mavericks win the pick in the drawing room. Okay. Going to be a lot of reaction there. By the way, Sam Presti, Thunder president, is in the drawing room because it's a 32nd, 36% chance that he gets the seventh pick if the Mavericks move back. So Presti's got to be like, oh, look at this little situation here. I'm not sure I like Cooper Flack coming to the Western Conference, but that's interesting. Then they draw the second pick. San Antonio Spurs. Not another top player in the West. My gut. Wait a minute. For some period of time there, the Thunder had the seventh pick because two teams jumped up until the next team.

[Wojnarowski]

Right?

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but there was a period of time where the, where the Sixers were like, oh my, you know, I can't remember who was, who was representing the Sixers, but the Sixers like, oh my God, this is the catastrophe. We don't get our pick. Presti's like, I got the number seven pick. They tend. I shouldn't say what he's saying. I don't know what he was thinking, but I, I know what I would be thinking if I were him.

[Wojnarowski]

He read the bubble over his mind while he was sitting.

[Brian Windhorst]

They tried to, these guys tried to tank all season to deny me my, my lottery pick and now the karma is going to get. Oh, bam. Oh my God. I mean, talk about a bailout. A bailout for the Sixers and a jump up and I got to. What do you think they'll do? Bon Temps? Are they holding or trading?

[Tim MacMahon]

Mean I would assume they're going to draft a player third, but I don't know. I mean after.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know what.

[Tim MacMahon]

The hell is going to happen for anybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. With the big salaries they have, having a rookie scale contract would be very valuable there.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I mean it's, it's opportunity to have a long term building block for, you know, again you've got Terry Smacksey and then you got a bunch of older players and now you've got a chance to add a potential long term stud with it.

[Wojnarowski]

Ooh, two timelines work for Golden State, babe. You seen commingleately Two timelines.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, look, I mean, look, I mean they could trade for Giannis too now. I mean you could do, you could say anything you want for what these Teams are going to do at the top of the draft with these picks. I mean, you know, like it, it puts a lot of things in play. Having that pick, you know, gives Daryl Morey optionality to do a lot of different stuff. So I would guess the odds are they make a draft pick but doesn't mean they will.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will say this Ace Bailey today and like look, I'm not, I, I, I, this is Gavoni's game, this is not mine. Ace Bailey, who is possibly the number three pick out of Rutgers was listed throughout the year on Rutgers roster at 6 foot 10. When you hear about it, people talk. People compare him to Tracy McGrady because he's, you know, got great size. People compare him to Kevin Durant, he measured in today at six, seven and a half at the combine in bare feet. They don't play in bare feet.

[Unknown Advertiser]

You play in shoes.

[Brian Windhorst]

So maybe put shoes on.

[Wojnarowski]

Unless he's wearing platforms. Ain't 6 10.

[Brian Windhorst]

So that was. That certainly drew some reaction today, but not that he's not an elite prospect at six, seven and a half in bare feet. So anyway, I thought I'd point that out but you saw Daryl Morey's reaction when they knew they were in the top four. It was incredible. It was incredible.

[Tim MacMahon]

They spent months having an absolutely God awful miserable season and this was the hope was that they could fall their way into keeping this pick and they succeeded. And you know, that's where again I go back to. I don't think this system has helped tanking at all. And honestly, like just from a, to go back to what we talked about on the POD yesterday, I think this is a disaster at the top for the league because they desperately need some of these high level prospects to end up in the Eastern cup race.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that is a great point. That is a great point you made yesterday. And I'll tell you something else, you know. You know one of the things I was thinking about that was a great point you made. I thought about it a lot after the pod and it's really something I'm thinking about now. And now I'm thinking about when there's expansion because when there's expansion, Cooper Flag potentially in two years could be a monster. And now you've got potentially Dallas rising up the fight to get into the east because there's going to have to be a team, you know, if indeed expansion is Vegas and Seattle, there's got to be a team go East. There is going to be a brawl to see who can get out of the Western conference among Minnesota, Memphis and New Orleans.

[Tim MacMahon]

It's going to be Minnesota.

[Wojnarowski]

I would be.

[Tim MacMahon]

I would assume it's going to be Minnesota. We talked about this. I would. We talked about it in our expansion piece. It's by far the most logical team from a, from a.

[Brian Windhorst]

What does logic have to do with Standpoint. What does logic have to do?

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean, I mean, it doesn't have to do with a lot of things we're talking about this podcast, but I.

[Brian Windhorst]

Would think if you're not logical to have the Oklahoma City Thunder in the Pacific Northwest Division or whatever.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Northwest.

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean, I mean, they should certainly abolish divisions.

[Wojnarowski]

Yeah, I was going to say it's not logical to have divisions.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, if, if you're the I'm doing Countdown tonight. In fact, I got to go because I have to get ready to do the halftime show. I haven't watched a lick of this Knicks Celtics game. The guy who is the executive producer analysis, the executive producer of the, of the Countdown show, a guy named Greg Kondas. He's a lifelong Utah Jazz fan and he was directing the show tonight, watching the Lottery and Crestfallen and I so I feel the Jazz's pain through him. The Jazz have like never moved up. I think the one year they got Enes Kanter, they got Ennis Canter with.

[Tim MacMahon]

A Nets pick from the Darren Williams trade.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

But their pick has never moved up and they go the full tank this year. Some of the lineups they played down the stretch were terrible and they go all the way back from 1 to 5. You know, Dwyane Wade, who's a part, part owner of the Jazz, he has a fractional ownership. He tweeted afterwards, you can get great players at number five because he was drafted number five.

[Tim MacMahon]

But, and you can like, you don't have to necessarily get the number one pick. But look, I we've seen several years now of teams in the middle to back end of the lottery odds leaping up to get these generational potential players. I mean, I think the one exception, ironically, was the spurs when they, I think had the worst odds, are the best, the worst record and got the number one pick and got Victor Wenyama. But it's hard to sit here and look at this and feel like it's a win for the NBA to have two teams with a lot of talent on them lined up with these two players and have them lined up in the Western Conference. It just, it's incredible theater and storylines for the league from that standpoint. But from an on Court product standpoint, it's hard to feel good about it.

[Wojnarowski]

I'm. I'm just concerned what jersey number Cooper Flag will get when it comes to Dallas. Had number two at Duke. Number two used to be Kyrie Irving's in Dallas. Now it's Derek Lively's. Kyrie went back to 11. I don't know. I mean, what. What's Cooper Flag going to do? Someone. Someone didn't remind me that 77 is now available.

[Brian Windhorst]

I promise you that will not be.

[Tim MacMahon]

He's probably got the ability to get two if he wants to.

[Wojnarowski]

Hey, Rolando Blackman, who is the Mavericks representative tonight on the. On the stage at the lottery, he wore 22. It's up in the rafters. Maybe, maybe as a tribute to Roe Row, let him bring.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jackson has the information right here. That flag.

[Wojnarowski]

Oh, he wore 32 in high school. Okay. Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's 32 available.

[Wojnarowski]

I believe so. Used to be O.J.

[Tim MacMahon]

32 retired at Duke. That late in our stomach.

[Wojnarowski]

Yeah, that's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's a great pull. I would not have thought about that, but I think that is right.

[Wojnarowski]

Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

So checking. I'm checking that quick right now.

[Wojnarowski]

Well, let's see. 31 is. Is okay. Okay.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, no, 32 is. 32 is retired at Duke. So. Yeah, maybe he will be. Maybe he will be 32. Yeah, good question.

[Wojnarowski]

32 is available. Okay, that. Okay, that might be problem solved.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, if that's indeed his jersey, it'll be printed up by the end of the week. Available.

[Wojnarowski]

They can't print up it by the end of the week. They've got to draft the guy first.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I don't think they're allowed to do it until June.

[Brian Windhorst]

I understand. I'm. I'm making a joke. All right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, I still can't believe that happened. I really can't.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was talking.

[Tim MacMahon]

That was absolutely incredible.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mentioned. I mentioned it. I mentioned it on the. On NBA Today. Today. I was going over some crazy scenarios that could happen. I just sort of mentioned it in passing. Like, oh, my gosh, wouldn't it be amazing if they. They got the 11th pick and they opened up the envelope? But it's not even that.

[Tim MacMahon]

It's just Dallas. It was Dallas jumping up and the spurs jumping up and the Sixers jumping up. All of them. It was honestly crazy.

[Wojnarowski]

It was three of the four teams in the lottery that had the best chance to do playoff damage if things break right next season. The other one, obviously, would be the Rockets.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, the Rockets. Unlucky got passed.

[Wojnarowski]

Rockets are the one Texas team that can't jump up in this lottery.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. The rockets went backwards two spots from ninth to 11th.

[Tim MacMahon]

Son's son's laughing, Adam.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't think that's the case, but yes. All right. Well, until we meet again, we'll talk to you on the hoop collected. Thank you, Quantemps. Thank you to Jackson for scrambling quickly. Thank you to McMahon. Get on that flight to Oklahoma City. It's going to be a long one. And we'll talk to you on who collected later this week.

[Wojnarowski]

Adios, Migos.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sam.