Emergency Pod: Kevin Durant Trade Reaction

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Emergency Pod: Kevin Durant Trade Reaction

Release Date: June 22, 2025

In this urgent episode of The Hoop Collective, ESPN’s NBA insider Brian Windhorst, along with co-hosts Tim Bontemps and Marc Stein, delve into the seismic shift in the NBA landscape: the trade of superstar Kevin Durant from the Phoenix Suns to the Houston Rockets. Released shortly after the trade was announced, this episode provides in-depth analysis, diverse perspectives, and forecasts the implications of this blockbuster deal on both franchises and the broader league.

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1. Trade Breakdown

The episode opens with the revelation that the Phoenix Suns have agreed to trade Kevin Durant to the Houston Rockets. The return for Durant includes Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks (the number 10 pick in the recent draft), and five second-round picks.

• Tim Bontemps highlights the extensive assets the Suns received:

  "Kevin Durant is traded according to Shams to Houston for Jalen Green. Dylan Brooks, the number 10 pick in the draft on Wednesday night and five, count them, five second-round picks." [02:03]

• Marc Stein adds depth by discussing the value of the picks:

  "They got their own lottery pick back." [02:05]

2. Evaluating the Return

The core of the discussion revolves around whether the Suns received adequate value for Durant.

• Brian Windhorst expresses skepticism about the return:

  "This isn't a terrific return for Kevin Durant. Like, this is exactly what we talked about." [05:55]

• Marc Stein concurs, emphasizing the limited assets received:

  "They didn't even get Cam Whitmore in the deal." [07:03]

The team debates the quality of the assets, particularly Jalen Green’s role and potential. There’s consensus that while Houston gained a proven star in Durant, the Suns may have sacrificed more long-term potential than immediate gains.

3. Impact on the Phoenix Suns

A significant portion of the conversation analyzes the Suns' strategic position post-trade.

• Windhorst underscores the Suns' precarious situation:

  "They still don't have any flexibility going forward. Still as of now, they are very expensive." [07:36]

• Stein and Bontemps discuss possible future moves, including potential contract extensions for key players like Devin Booker and the challenges of managing the roster under the luxury tax cap.

The hosts express concern over the Suns' ability to restructure effectively, noting the difficulty in balancing star power with salary constraints.

4. Benefits for the Houston Rockets

Conversely, the Rockets’ acquisition of Durant is portrayed as a strategic masterstroke.

• Marc Stein praises the Rockets’ approach:

  "This was a two-seed that gave the Warriors a very competitive series... Now they've got that go-to guy." [25:10]

• Windhorst agrees, highlighting the enhanced offensive capabilities:

  "This is going to be an elite defensive team. This is going to be an elite rebounding team." [31:05]

The discussion emphasizes that Houston managed to acquire Durant without significantly jeopardizing their young core or future assets, positioning them as a formidable contender.

5. Future Implications and Long-Term Strategy

The conversation shifts to the broader implications for both franchises and the NBA.

• Windhorst speculates on the Suns' upcoming decisions:

  "I expect this is not the last move they're going to make. So we'll see where this team looks." [07:36]

• Stein and Bontemps explore the complexity of managing team payrolls under the NBA’s cap regulations, stressing the importance of strategic contract negotiations to maintain competitiveness without overextending financially.

Additionally, the hosts draw parallels between the Rockets’ current strategy and other franchises like the Oklahoma City Thunder, illustrating the delicate balance between immediate success and sustainable growth.

6. Notable Quotes

Throughout the episode, several standout quotes encapsulate the hosts' sentiments:

• Brian Windhorst on the trade's adequacy:

  "This isn't a terrific return for Kevin Durant." [05:55]

• Marc Stein on the Suns' limited trade returns:

  "They couldn't get Jabari Smith Jr. In this deal." [06:56]

• Tim Bontemps emphasizing contractual uncertainties:

  "So I think it's more likely Devin Books gets rerouted than Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks." [09:16]

• Windhorst summarizing the Suns’ predicament:

  "This Trade is fine for Phoenix in the situation Phoenix was in... but they're still at the bottom of the Grand Canyon." [07:36]

7. Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the immediate reactions to Durant’s trade and its potential ripple effects across the league. They acknowledge the uncertainty surrounding contract extensions and future roster moves, underscoring the Suns' critical need to reassess their strategy to remain competitive.

• Tim Bontemps closes with observations on Durant’s demeanor post-trade:

  "He had this huge smile on his face and everybody was screaming." [50:13]

Overall, this episode of The Hoop Collective offers a comprehensive analysis of Kevin Durant’s trade, balancing the immediate excitement of acquiring a superstar with the nuanced challenges that lie ahead for both the Phoenix Suns and the Houston Rockets. Listeners are left with a deeper understanding of the strategic maneuvers shaping the NBA’s dynamic landscape.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Sunday. Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Are we talking about Game 7 of the NBA Finals? We are not. Because today was the day that the Suns agreed to trade Kevin Durant. Joining me from here in Oklahoma City, Tim Bontemps.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hello everybody.

[Tim Bontemps]

Joining me also in Oklahoma City, fresh off of his pickup game where I'm told he dominated our producer Jackson agelo is Van McMahon.

[Marc Stein]

Howdy, partner. As usual, Wendy, your reporting is 100% on the money. I was putting the finishing touches on a triple double performance. As news breaks, our guy Shams Kevin Durant headed to Houston.

[Brian Windhorst]

Every time, every time McMahon plays pickup, he says he has a triple double. Jackson, how that works?

[Marc Stein]

If Jackson's willing to put his microphone on, he can confirm he might add.

[Tim Bontemps]

A lot of triple doubles, but a.

[Brian Windhorst]

Lot of me bounds out there as well.

[Marc Stein]

Those count two, baby. Those count two.

[Tim Bontemps]

Those guys who career on rebounding their own offensive misses. Okay, Kevin Durant is traded according to Shams to Houston for Jalen Green. Dylan brooks, the number 10 pick in the draft on Wednesday night and five, count them, five second round picks. So they got a lot of picks. I don't know how many of them are going to be any good, but they did get a lottery pick in it.

[Marc Stein]

They got their own lottery pick back.

[Tim Bontemps]

That is right. I didn't think about that till the second. I didn't realize that that is their pick. So I think it was at least two or so months ago when the season ended and it was pretty clear that the Sun's primary decision in the off season was going to be trading Kevin Durant. Even beyond their front office and the head coach and Bon Temps was saying I don't think they're going to get a great return for him. And I just want to tell you that and the reporting is this trade is less than an hour old. The reporting is still developing on my end. I think this was far and away the best thing they had. I know that Sean said that Miami was the finalist. I don't think Miami's. I don't, I don't think it was close. I think, I don't, I don't think Miami got a quote unquote outbid. I think Miami.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I mean Miami did get outbid because they didn't, they didn't get them.

[Marc Stein]

Well, this was, but this was not a bidding war. These were, that were like, this was Houston's best offer. They weren't going higher. And the Rockets accomplished their goal of not shortening their Runway, but making a win. Now move. Jaylen Green obviously is the young talent in this deal. Frankly, for ranking the Rockets young talents, I would probably put him somewhere like the maybe fourth or fifth most valuable.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think he's lower than that, maybe even lower.

[Marc Stein]

And essentially, let's just be honest, he's, he's the salary filler in this deal. But this is a, I love this trade for Houston because this is a team. They didn't shorten their Runway. They kept all their young two way players.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, can I, can I stop you right there?

[Marc Stein]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

And maybe when this comes out, we'll have a good feel for whether or not there's going to be a contract extension. To me, a big part of what happens from Houston's side about whether they quote, unquote won this or not is what they're doing about Katie's contract. Are they giving.

[Marc Stein]

I anticipate there will be a contract extension.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. Is it two years in the full max?

[Marc Stein]

Because that's, I'm not ready to say that. I'm not ready to say that I anticipate there will be a contract extension. I, you know that that's, let's just be honest, that's part that factoring in that math, that cap math is part of the reason why the, why the offers were nowhere near the value that, that the Suns gave up.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I'm just going to say is before you can take a full picture of where this is for Houston, I think you need to hear what the, what the extension is.

[Marc Stein]

I, I'm going to assume it's two years at a high number. Obviously, I, I don't know that it'll be the full max. But look, man, this is a young, tough, athletic, scrappy Rockets team that was, is fresh off being a two seed that was desperately in need of a go to guy. Kevin Durant, even at this age is a big time, big time score. That's the one thing they needed. Listen, Dylan Brooks, the Rockets were ripped for signing him to that deal. He was a solid signing for them. Honestly, I think he's the kind of guy that Phoenix needs. They need that toughness, they need that defense. But he wasn't going to start with KD there. Amend Thompson's obviously starting now and for a long, long time.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, not only that, but they, they needed to. Katie makes $50 million. Jalen Green makes 33 million.

[Marc Stein]

They need, yeah, they need to make.

[Tim Bontemps]

The salary 20 more million to go into it. And, but. All right, but hold on. Bond temps. You said two months ago you didn't think the return would be terrific for Durant because of various reasons. What do you think of this trade and where you thought it would be?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I mean, this isn't a terrific return for Kevin Durant. Like, this is exactly what we talked about. Right. I would say that it's about as good as the Rocket as the Suns could have expected to do in the moment because there just wasn't anything available. I think, you know, I think I would say where things sat by the end of this week, like Friday. I'm not really sure Minnesota was even an option at that point.

[Tim Bontemps]

I do not believe they were.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't either. The Miami offer, this is, this is better than the Miami offer and it's not, this isn't a great offer. Like, there just wasn't really anything else to do.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Miami offer, by the way, I think the key thing about the Miami offer is it didn't have Tyler Hero in, didn't have Khalil Ware in it.

[Brian Windhorst]

No. The Suns were trying to get a blue chip asset in this trade and there were none available. There were not even any, like, you know, whatever the next chip down is red chip assets available.

[Marc Stein]

Right. Like, they couldn't get Jabari Smith Jr. In this deal. Certainly. Like Tar Eason. Absolutely not. Reed Shepherd. No way.

[Brian Windhorst]

They didn't even get Cam Whitmore in the deal. Like, you know, they got, they got a lottery pick. They got Jalen Green, who is a guy that I don't think has a ton of value around the league. He, you know, we disagreed, I disagreed with you guys last summer on this contract that they, the Rockets gave him. It did turn into a piece that we're able to use to get this trade done. But I, you know, maybe Jalen Green will blow up in the future, but now he's on a team with Bradley Beal and Devin Booker that fit for many reasons. Doesn't really work.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, we'll talk about that in a minute. Just talk about the return.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, so, but that is part of the return, right? Dylan Brooks, they could maybe flip Dylan Brooks again. But look, this is, this is, to me, it's really what it is. Like this Trade is fine for Phoenix in the situation Phoenix was in in terms of they got as much as they could get right now. But the reason I've been saying this is the worst situation in the history of the league for a while is because of the cavernous hole that the Suns are in. And like, yes, this is the beginning of starting to dig out of the hole, but they're still at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Like, like they, they don't have any, they don't have any flexibility going forward. Still as of now, now that could change, but they're still very expensive. They have Bradley Beal with a no trade clause or they have to try to move or do something with. They have to figure out if Jaylen Green fits. They have to see him, they get something for him. Maybe, maybe he's there, maybe he's not. But you know, look, they have six picks now. They have this first round pick. They have these five second round picks. I think they've got two or three firsts and several seconds now they can trade. My understanding is that they're going to be aggressive this week. They're going to try to retool the roster. I expect this is not the last move they're going to make. So we'll see where this team looks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, this trade itself could expand.

[Marc Stein]

This can't be official till July 6th.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Marc Stein]

So this could expand.

[Brian Windhorst]

It can't happen till then. So you could have permutations. You have Jalen green, go elsewhere, etc. Right. But the sun.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think it's more likely Devin Books gets rerouted than Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks.

[Marc Stein]

And I'm like, huh? Hold on. Don't aggregate that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sorry.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, look, I, to me, what the Suns, we're sitting here talking about the Thunder in the finals. At least we're all here for the Thunder in the finals. Right. The trade that set up everything that's happening right now with Oklahoma City was the Paul George trade to the Clippers.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And after the Paul George trade to the Clippers, what did the Thunder do? They took that trade and it kept making more trades. And after a couple weeks, they made like 15 trades. They had a whole pile full of stuff. And that started off the path back to where they are now. Now obviously they started with a bazillion more things to trade out of that trade than the, than the Suns are getting out of this deal. But to me, I'd be trying to reroute Dylan Brooks for stuff. I'd be trying to reroute Jalen Green for Stuff. I'd be trying to start that process to have some stuff to build around. Devin Booker going forward.

[Tim Bontemps]

Grayson Allen and Royce o' Neill. I mean, I mean, I, I mean.

[Brian Windhorst]

Grayson Allen's on a bad contract. I don't think they're getting anything for him. Royce o' Neill is a guy you could maybe turn into stuff. But like, this is what the Suns have to start doing. They have to start digging.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, here's the thing. Bradley Beal, let's just do some math here. Bradley Beal, I'm going to just do it. As with Bradley Beal's making $53 million.

[Brian Windhorst]

We got window writing down numbers.

[Marc Stein]

Boom.

[Tim Bontemps]

Devin Booker, $53 million. Jalen Green, $33 million. In theory, they all play the same position. That is what, 100 and that's 139.

[Marc Stein]

Million of shooting guards, of shoot first guards.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dylan Brooks plays the wing. I guess he's not. He's more of a three than a two.

[Brian Windhorst]

161 million for four wing players.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, that's three.

[Marc Stein]

He can guard fours.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, Grayson Allen, what position does he play?

[Brian Windhorst]

He's another wing. That's 178 million for five wing players.

[Tim Bontemps]

What position does Rice O' Neill play?

[Brian Windhorst]

Royce is kind of a four, but let's call him a wing player.

[Marc Stein]

He's an understatement.

[Brian Windhorst]

$188 million for six wing players.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. I mean, you need wings in the NBA, don't get me wrong. But. But none of those guys can really play point guard.

[Marc Stein]

I mean, listen, Jalen Green is a complete overlap in terms of talent, in terms of skill set, I should say with Devin Booker and Bradley Beal, like, he's a total. Like he, he does not fit. You know, they've got to try to figure out a way to, to reroute him. Obviously, they'd like to reroute Bradley Beal. Good luck with all that. You know, that doesn't make sense. Brooks, I think you can argue is what they need. They need toughness, they need defense. You know, they need gritty role players around Devin Booker. But Green doesn't fit there. Green, the. You know, Green's in this deal because of the salary.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, so they've got a lopsided roster. They have the number 10 pick in the draft. Reasonable to guess that they're going to try to draft a center there because.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I know. Whatever they do, please. Phoenix Suns, if you're listening, draft the best player. Don't draft some positional fit on the roster. Whoever the best player is Draft the player, whoever.

[Marc Stein]

And ISHB, ISHBA's mandate is always everything to win now. Everything to win now. Everything to win now you've got to get on off of that. You're not winning this season.

[Tim Bontemps]

I haven't heard say that. I haven't heard them say that.

[Marc Stein]

HBA has said that over and over and over.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, no, no.

[Marc Stein]

Oh yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

I, I haven't heard this say that they're gonna, that they're not gonna try to win this season.

[Marc Stein]

No, that's what I'm saying. All they have said is win, win, win everything.

[Tim Bontemps]

So why would I assume it's going to be different?

[Brian Windhorst]

Look, I'm not saying I'm.

[Marc Stein]

I'm trying to offer some unsolicited advice that, dude, you've got to take a three to five year view here. And it's like it can't be this year. This year, this year.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean we shouldn't, they must do that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Should we 100 assume they're going to draft at 10? No, I don't think we should assume that either.

[Marc Stein]

I don't think you can assume anything again. ISHB is.

[Tim Bontemps]

Maybe they'll trade number 10 for 3 firsts in 12 years.

[Marc Stein]

HBO's whole philosophy is everything to maximize your chances of winning now. And it is crippling that franchise's chance ever winning long term.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're going to extend Devin Booker for two years and 150 million in the next two weeks. They're going to do that?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I mean, look, the mandate is clear. Right? And the mandate is clear coming out of this trade, which is the goal is to retool the roster around Devin Booker with what they have available.

[Tim Bontemps]

Now, by the way, I haven't even brought up Ryan Dunn, who's their best young player. He plays the wing too.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, sorry. I mean, look, that's all fine. I mean, they also just don't like, look this as again, this trade in a vacuum, like people are going to go, man, the sun's got nothing for kd. There was nothing available for KD for a variety of reasons. This is as much as they were going to get. You could argue they should just sit on it and try to like mend fences or whatever. I don't think that made sense either. As I have said many times, I would be trading Devin Booker and like just starting over because there's. They have to start over. That's not what they're going to do. They're going to. That's fine. So let's. We will have a better picture. You ask about the return of the trade. The truth is, as you said, the trade can expand between now and July 6th. I think there's little doubt it's going to expand in some form between now and July 6th. And we will have a much better sense a week from now on the eve of free agency of what this trade looks like and where the Suns are based off what they do this week. But as Tim said, based off of the Matt Ishbia tenure with the franchise over the last two and a half years, though now the experts are out of the way. So maybe it'll be different. The expectation should be.

[Marc Stein]

It won't be different.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the expectation should be that this team is going to be very aggressive this week, is going to make trades and is going to try to improve the roster with win now moves. Yes, we will see where that lands. We will see if Bradley Beals on the team, we'll see if Jalen Green's on the team, we'll see if Dylan Brooks is on the team. The only thing that I would say is certain is that Devin Booker will be on the team and Devin Booker will get that extension and then we will see what the Suns look like around him going into next season. But sitting here right now, if the Suns do something that makes them one of the six or eight best teams in the west over the next two weeks, I will be the first to say I am incorrect about this. It's hard for me to see how they're going to get from where they are right now, which is maybe the 13th or 14th best team in the west, to a playoff team.

[Marc Stein]

Listen, it's going to be a tough climb for the Suns to return to relevancy in the Western Conference. Simple as that. And the Rockets are, they benefited from it, you know, to have this 10th overall pick that they could use to get a guy who I think is a great immediate fit, short term fit. But again, they didn't give up like a ton of future assets. In fact, they still have two future sons picks and those are assets and they are value.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, that's the thing. When they, when they did the deal last summer with Brooklyn where they got the two first and the swap, the concept was, oh, they're going to trade those for Durant. They end up getting Durant for 1/3 of that stuff.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, yeah. And they also have the Mavs 29 pick out of that deal. So it's really three picks in a spot. And by the way, what was the most valuable asset that the Grizzlies got in the Desmond Bain deal.

[Tim Bontemps]

Next year's Sunspick?

[Marc Stein]

Essentially, yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. I don't think the Grizzlies are disappointed with this development. One more thing before we pivot to the Rockets. And please, if you think I'm flawed in thinking, please, please step forward. Should the Suns just have ignored what KD wanted and traded into the. To the warriors at the trade deadline?

[Marc Stein]

Yes. Yeah. Honestly, yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Because wouldn't they have had Jimmy. But I mean, they wouldn't. Would they not have had Jimmy Butler? Well, and Jonathan Kaminga? If. Am I wrong in saying that you.

[Marc Stein]

You, you have better info here than. Than I do. So I'm legitimately asking, were the warriors willing to do that with KD saying don't get me.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, no, the Warriors. The warriors were the ones who backed out of it. You're right. Okay, so, but, but you're, You're. You're correct on that. But look, if.

[Brian Windhorst]

If the Suns have been able to do that trade, that was a much better return than the trade they. They got now. There's no question.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, let me ask you this. Should they have ignored what KD wanted and traded, did the deal with Minnesota?

[Marc Stein]

Again?

[Brian Windhorst]

That's. Again, that's the problem. I. These are all like, yes, like, sure, if you could just put in a trade machine, we're going to send Kevin Durant somewhere and get stuff back. That's better. Yeah, that's great. But like, that the, the other teams involved here.

[Marc Stein]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Are part of the trade. It's not like the other team was saying, please give us Kevin Durant even though he doesn't want to come here.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah. And I think it would have been a bad idea for Minnesota to ignore KD's trade.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also. Just didn't like it. Again, like we talked about before, a Rudy Gobert trade for Kevin Durant did not make sense for Minnesota, despite what people might say about the value of Rudy Gobert and Kevin Durant. It would have made the Wolves worse. So, so that.

[Marc Stein]

This is. This to me was always. Houston was always the place that made the most sense.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. As a process played out. The Rockets work the team that. Where it just. It. It. It worked. Because of.

[Brian Windhorst]

What I would say to your point, Brian, is if. And you. You were all over this story in February, so you should correct me if I'm wrong on this for sure. But if the Suns had worked with Kevin a little better in February and greased the skids to get him to Golden State in February, that would have been a much better outcome. Than this outcome for the Suns. But I agree, but short of that happening, right, that is now off the board. You look at the options available now, the options available now, this is the best that they had, which is the best of a, a very, you know, mediocre lot. And it's again, to me it's less about the merits of this specific trade than it is the all encompassing nature of everything that's gone wrong the past couple of years, to McMahon's point, of just the continual throwing assets down the drain repeatedly. And all these various decisions that have all led up to this. Which is why I am very curious to see what the next couple of weeks look like because of where it could land them.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let me amend my point. KD controlled his last two trades. He controlled getting himself to Phoenix and he controlled blocking or dis disengaging the warriors and Wolves.

[Marc Stein]

Correct.

[Tim Bontemps]

To some level. Yet Phoenix paid a massive premium to get him and then had to pay and then had to sell him for less because of the, because of the.

[Marc Stein]

Lack of a, the lack of a competitive market.

[Tim Bontemps]

So they, they paid a huge price in a non competitive market the first time around and then paid, you know, sold low for the same reason two years, two and a half years later.

[Marc Stein]

Made a big splash. There was a lot of sizzle. There was little substance in terms of winning, you know, KD1, a playoff series in Phoenix. And then they had to sell. I don't know, I'm not going to say pennies on the dollar, but certainly change on the dollar.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm just saying when he came to Phoenix, it was the only place he wanted to go. He said I only wanted. He told the Nets I only wanted to be traded to the Suns.

[Marc Stein]

And they gave up four picks and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Three swaps and Cam Johnson.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, that. I mean that, that was an immense hole. And this is a fraction of that one.

[Tim Bontemps]

One. One more thing. 2018, do you remember when the Suns traded for Dylan Brooks, but.

[Marc Stein]

Oh yeah, that's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Marshawn Brooks.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah. No, I don't know where Marshawn is, but Dylan is definitely going to Phoenix this time around.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, maybe not. We'll see.

[Marc Stein]

I think Marshawn might be playing in China. I'm not sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, I just remembered that the, the.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, no, this is the. The Rockets only had one Brooks. There might have been some confusion if there was other guys involved, but there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was only one Brooks, whatever that was. I don't even remember who else was involved. I just remember it was a three team trade.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kelly Oubre was involved.

[Marc Stein]

Wasn't Austin Rivers involved? I don't know. Or I don't know. I remember.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, whatever it was, I think wo's reported. I remember WO reporting Dylan Brooks, blah blah, blah blah blah. Dylan Brooks and whatever to Phoenix. And then like five minutes later he was like, oh, correction. It was actually Marshan Brooks.

[Marc Stein]

This sounds like correction.

[Tim Bontemps]

I want to correct that correction. Oh my God.

[Marc Stein]

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Marc Stein]

In 1979, the first words spoken on ESPN weren't just an announcement. If you're a fan, they were a sports pro. Prophecy.

[Tim Bontemps]

What you'll see in the next minutes.

[Marc Stein]

Hours and days to follow. Glad you're with us tonight.

[Brian Windhorst]

May convince you you've gone to sports heaven.

[Marc Stein]

And right now you're standing on the edge of tomorrow. This fall, the next era of ESPN begins. Sports forever.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, anyway, the Rockets, as we talked about for months, I don't think the Rockets wanted to trade for a 37 year old player, but they got the price to a point here. I mean, just so you know, the.

[Marc Stein]

Rockets didn't want to pay a premium for a 36 year old player.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. This is the thing I was going to say before. The Suns have been waiting for weeks for somebody to blink and nobody did.

[Tim Bontemps]

So why make the deal?

[Brian Windhorst]

I think because they decided they had to move forward and nobody was going to budge. There's been weak like this hat. None of this has, I think changed for a while. Like Miami's offer. I don't believe was changing. They putting in the more attractive stuff. I don't think Houston's offer was changing. I don't think they were putting Miami stuff.

[Tim Bontemps]

Miami had an upper yeah before because I'm starting to see people say oh my gosh, the Heat lost. Miami had a chance to make a better offer at the trade deadline and elected not to make it. And they had a chance to make a better offer. Now maybe they couldn't outbid Houston anyway but I'm just telling you no, they.

[Brian Windhorst]

Could have outbid Houston if they chose to. They chose not to. The Heat chose not to give up. The Heat actively chose to get Andrew Wiggins in a first round pick in February, then trade picks with stuff to get Kevin Durant in February. They made that active decision and by the way then they then lost by a billion to the Cavs in the first round of the playoffs. Like this Heat team giving up future assets for a 37 year old Kevin Durant didn't make any sense at all.

[Marc Stein]

No where Whereas I do think it does make a lot of sense for Houston this particular trade. Not giving up the farm for Kevin Durant not and again their whole thing was they didn't want to make a deal that shortened the Runway but they knew they needed a go to guy. They knew that was the one massive missing piece. But they're they've got a chance I think to be you know we can play semantics on contender but this was a two seed that gave the Warriors a very competitive series. As my light goes out is like young, athletic, tough and now they're adding one of the most skilled a guy who's still one of the most skilled players in the league. I love this move for the Rockets.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look, the Rockets essentially have taken Jalen Green out of their lineup. An inefficient, not all that great scorer who on this team.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well he was sometimes great. He was great about one and a.

[Brian Windhorst]

Half out of listen he had, he had moments but he, he was not a player that was good enough to be the best perimeter scorer on a team that's trying to win anything.

[Marc Stein]

His playoff 11 big splash game and the rest was blah blah blah.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's kind of Jalen Green. Their team was an excellent defensive team that was mediocre to bad on offense a lot of the time and they grinded out a lot of wins. Right. They now have added Kevin Durant to that team essentially just in place of Jalen Green. They'll have Fred Van Vliet back. They can assuming they don't make any other trades, which, by the way, they have kept virtually all their assets so they could go make another big trade if they want this.

[Tim Bontemps]

And by the way, they were. They were probably going to trade the 10th pick no matter what. They were probably going to trade. They didn't have room for another young asset on this team. Obviously, if there's a guy at 10 that they were in love with and like, oh, my God, this is a perfect fit, they would have done it. They couldn't play their lottery pick last year.

[Marc Stein]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Reed shepherd barely played this 10, and.

[Tim Bontemps]

They couldn't get him. And they wouldn't trade him either. This pick was probably not going to go to Houston anyway. So, yeah, they give a lottery pick here, but they didn't even value that pick.

[Marc Stein]

But again, it's a. It's a lottery pick that they got by making a great deal with Brooklyn last year, by the way.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's just do this right now. Let's just do this. Since I've got a pen and I'm writing stuff.

[Brian Windhorst]

There we go.

[Marc Stein]

I like it. Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's write down how many things that the. That the. That the Rockets have that they value more than Jalen green, the number 10.

[Marc Stein]

Okay. Amin Thompson. Let's just.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. He's got it right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Keep going.

[Marc Stein]

Amin Thompson.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Marc Stein]

Tar Eason Aler and Shingoon. I should have. He honestly should be. Should be higher on that list.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's no order of these. No order on these.

[Tim Bontemps]

Reed shepherd, the.

[Marc Stein]

The other two sons picks that they have.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Marc Stein]

I. You know, I think that's a. I don't know.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Mavericks. What about the Mavericks pick?

[Brian Windhorst]

The Mavericks pick? Yes, probably.

[Marc Stein]

Although, the. Although the value. The value on that over the last couple of years is the Mavs have traded Luca, won the lottery.

[Brian Windhorst]

I still think people would take a swing on Dallas at the moment, given where Dallas is at.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right. What about Fred Van Vliet?

[Marc Stein]

They love Fred Van Vliet.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, I'm putting them on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, Fred is Fred.

[Tim Bontemps]

Suns would have taken Fred Van Vliet. I'm putting him on there.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, for sure.

[Marc Stein]

Oh, God. Fred Van Vliet's exactly the kind of point guard the sun.

[Brian Windhorst]

No. Yeah, that's. So that's a minimum of eight or nine assets that.

[Marc Stein]

Okay. And look, the other thing about trading Jalen Green, it probably opens up minutes for Reed shepherd, who. Last year. And Reed Shepard was not in the rotation. You know, he was hurt at the time, but he hadn't really been in the rotation when I went down there and wrote this story about the Rockets are primed to make a big splash, but they're going to be. It's a very cautious approach. I was told they think Reed shepherd might be the most talented offensive player on that roster.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well. And. Well, yes, not anymore.

[Marc Stein]

Kevin Durant is now. But.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, but look, I also think, I mean again, if you're talking about knock on effects of this Ross of this trade, let's, let's just say the Rockets are who they are basically, right. I really like Jabari Smith. I think he's a really good player as a, as a forward who can shoot it and guard multiple positions. Moving Dylan Brooks out of there in particular, you move Dylan Brooks and Jalen Green out. There's now more minutes for Jabari Smith to play, whose minutes would sometimes fluctuate last year. There's more minutes and more of a role for Amend Thompson, even more than what he had before. He's obviously a focal point for them going forward. There's more minutes for Tari Eason going forward. There's arguably even more minutes for Cam Whitmore going forward, who is an interesting player who's had an up and down career so far. He's been to the G League some, he's had some, some public battles with Ime Udoka.

[Tim Bontemps]

Second apron stuff here. The Suns are still in the second apron in another construction of this trade. They probably could have asked for Cam Whitmore in this trade, but they couldn't get him in this trade because they would have taken back too much money.

[Marc Stein]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

So like, I'm not sure exactly. Just to be clear, I don't have the exact reporting on the, on the construction. But like this, even if, even if they were willing to give Cam, they.

[Brian Windhorst]

Couldn'T have done all three of those guys for Durant.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right. So like there's where the second effort bites you. And I think the point is whether, you know, let's, let's throw the two Suns picks they have out because, you know, maybe those picks will, neither will be in the top 10 because the Suns can look you in the eye and say we traded for a top 10 pick. Yeah, they're at the very bottom line there. They probably didn't trade their five preferred assets.

[Marc Stein]

And I'm talking about young players, just young players.

[Tim Bontemps]

Five preferred young players.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, they're five. They're five. And they got Kevin Durant players are still on the roster.

[Marc Stein]

They didn't trade any of their really good two way young players. Jabari Smith, Jun Tar Eason, Amin Thompson. Those guys are completely don't ask.

[Brian Windhorst]

And that's what the Suns were. That's what the Suns have been hoping for. They've been hoping for somebody, whether it's Miami to put in Khalil Ware, whether it's Houston to put in one of these guys, whether it's Minnesota to want to do something where it's San Antonio to whatever name the team. Right. They were hoping somebody would go, we got to get Kevin Durant and jump in and do what the sun not to the same degree the Suns did, but to do what the Suns did two and a half years ago and overpay. But everybody saw the situation for what it was, where Kevin Durant is a distressed asset, who's 37, who has an injury history, who's going to want a ton of money, who by the way, has won two playoff series in the last six years. So I think there is some question about the level of winning he can drive. Still now, I do think Houston is the perfect place for him to go. A bunch of young athletic dudes around him, an offense that is pretty isolation heavy, where they're going to let Kevin be able to have the ball and operate and work around these guys gives a parent shingun more room to operate inside. Like I think, I think basketball wise, this was easily the best fit by a mile with a coach he's got a relationship with and likes. Like, I do think it's a, it's a very good trade for the Rockets. And look, if there's a big fish that comes available between now and the trade deadline in February, they could still go get a guy because they have all this stuff to trade.

[Marc Stein]

I don't think the Rockets are hoping for a big fish to become available. Their whole thing was they wanted their young core to be able to grow and they.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, listen, I'm not saying I never.

[Marc Stein]

Really, I'll be honest, I never really bought the belief they were selling in Jalen Green, whatever he was down the list of the guys who I think had the most value to the Rockets, by the way, just in terms of fit Jackson's performance as a producer, they much, much better than his pickup performance. Here you go. Rockets seventh in isolations per game last season, but 27th in points per ISO. Durant led the league in points per ISO among, you know, high usage guys. Among guys run at least 200. They got still at 37 KD is one of, if not the best ISO player and they just didn't have the guy who could get them buckets when Things stalled. They didn't have the guy late in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. They didn't have the guy who could say, hey get us a bucket. They've got, this is going to be an elite defensive team. This is going to be an elite rebounding team. That's how they had an ugly ass offense and we're still a second seed. That gave the Warriors a tough series. Now they've got that go to guy. We'll see how long he's at that level. But you know, at least a couple of years. You know, if it's a two year extension that third year, maybe, maybe it's tough but again they did it without sacrificing young core. More hoop collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

Even if they don't extent, let's say Kevin Durant doesn't, doesn't extend. Let's say it's a one year deal. I still think it's a big win for Houston. Yeah, like this is it. This is a no doubt trade.

[Tim Bontemps]

They get off of Jalen Green's contract.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they get off and they get off of Dylan Brooks's money, which Dylan Brooks's contract is fine. But it like, and you can turn like to McMahon's point. He, if he's in Phoenix, he'll be useful. If they want to trade him for an asset, he'll be, he's useful places. But they have a lot of guys who could play that role. Between Tar east and Jabari Smith and Amen Thompson, like that's an expendable piece. They have a million young players and draft picks. So the 10th pick is an expendable piece. And look, Jalen Green was their dominant perimeter shooter last year, right? He shot 42% overall. He shot 35% from three on 17 attempts a game from the field in the playoffs, played 30 minutes. He shot 37% from the field, shot 29% from three. They replaced that with Kevin Durant.

[Marc Stein]

The Rockets have a chance to be a much better, drastically better offensive team with Durant and again Reed shepherd is a wild card in all this.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, let's talk about the big, let's, let's talk about the bigger picture with the Rockets. Okay, I want to talk about what they did with the Steven Adam. They signed Stephen Adams last week to a contract extension and I, you know, he's a quality role playing big man who wouldn't have gotten attention on the market. They kept him off the market. But I want to talk about the contract. He did. He signed a contract that descends in value it's $14 million, $13 million, $11 million. They're doing that because they're trying to already manage the salaries that they've got. So this summer they are in position to extend Jabari Smith. I would think, since they kept him out of this trade, that they intend to do so. But Antari and Tar Eason, then the year after that, they have to take care, you know, one year from now, they have to take care of Amend Thompson. And if a men Thompson has another year like he did this last year.

[Marc Stein]

I think that's a Max.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm coming. You know, that's a fun, that's fun Max territory. I mean, I know that we're era where the fun Max is under threat because of the apron.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I mean, I don't think, I don't think he's good. Yeah, I don't think whatever the number, it's going to be a, it's going to be a big extension.

[Tim Bontemps]

They, they, they, they did some maneuvering on both Al Perrin Shingoon and Jalen Green's extensions last year where they didn't yield. So that's why I'm, that's why I don't just flippantly say, oh, yeah, they're going to give, you know, that's why I want to know what the Duran extension is. And also remember Fred Van Vliet, they have a team option on him for next season now. He's going to be a rocket. There's no way that they're going to not pick that up unless they have an understanding of what a new contract is going to be. But here's my thing. I just said they got a page, you know, and this is where the second apron thing is different. In the past, it was like Tillman Fertitta. Are you okay with having a $300 million payroll with taxes? You are. Okay, fine, let's pay all these dudes now. You can't do that. So that's my question in the next. They probably already have an understanding with Durant now, but if they don't, they got a pretty good. It's going to be fast. They better have an understanding with Fred Van Vliet now. And if they don't, it's going to be fast. So what happens with Durant and Van Vliet are going to be key in the next few days.

[Brian Windhorst]

They already moved Van Vliet's option date back to help facilitate any moves they could make. Right. So they've already been working with Fred on this. I'm sure Fred will be there. To your point, it would certainly make sense if Fred ops out of this 44 million and signs for a longer term deal on lower numbers that allows for them to have more flexibility going forward. Not saying it's definitely going to happen.

[Marc Stein]

Although the other thing that could make sense is for, for them to give him the 44 with an understanding of, hey, we can't officially do it now, but this 44 is essentially, we're going to give you this lump sum now and a massive pay cut later. But we, we. This is to keep you around for the next three or four years.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sure.

[Marc Stein]

That, that, that's a possibility.

[Brian Windhorst]

Different ways. There's different ways to do that. Right.

[Marc Stein]

What the certainty is is Fred Van Vliet is firmly in their plans. Fred Van Vliet is completely aligned with Rafael Stone, with IME Odoka, with Patrick Fertitta. And he, like, he is a huge, huge part of that franchise's management coaching staff and on the floor.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, he's, he's one of the best leaders in the league. One of the best locker room presences in the league. Like, obviously won a title with Toronto. Tough as nails. Like, exactly the kind of guy you think IME Adoka would love to have as his point guard. Like, it's not a coincidence Fred has shown up there. These young guys have all gotten better. Like, you know, he's definitely going to be there. And yeah, but that's the point, right? Like, they're working with Fred Van Vliet. Imdoka's got a longstanding relationship with Kevin Durant. Like, you're, he's going to walk in there with, I'm sure, some understanding of what it is they're trying to do.

[Marc Stein]

Like, yeah, they were together in Brooklyn for a year. They were together with Team usa. And by the way, yeah. Royale Ivey, one of Eme's assistants, a guy who, you know, I think Scott, future head coach potential, certainly had a hell of a run with South Sudan's national team.

[Brian Windhorst]

One of Kevin's best friends.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah. College teammate.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

For years teams have been hiring Royale Ivy and they've been like, oh, they're, they're doing it to get Durant.

[Marc Stein]

I think he actually played here in OKC too, didn't he?

[Brian Windhorst]

Your point on the second apron thing, Brian, you make a really good point about the Rockets. Now, I didn't like the Jalen Green deal at the time. That doesn't matter.

[Marc Stein]

But it served its function.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, but that's not, that's not the point of the Discussion though. But the Alperian Shangoon deal I think is very instructive of where the Rockets were thinking ahead in ways that a lot of other teams were not apparent. Changun, when he was up for his extension, in a lot of other teams that are just giving him a max deal, he already getting off to a great start in his career. He was on a all star trajectory. He may have already made the all star team. I don't remember if this was his first year. He may. Or if he last year was.

[Marc Stein]

But last year was.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was the Fun Max. Fun Max zone.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. The Fun Max doesn't really exist anymore. At least it shouldn't because you have to mind every single dollar on your books. And I'm just, I'm looking at Bobby Marks, his sheet. So going forward, a guy in Alperence who could have been on the 25% max. Right. Here's his percentage of the cap under Bobby's projections for the next four years. 18%, 17%, 16%, 15%. If you have a guy like that and you're paying him 15% instead of 24%. Right.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

That is very easily the difference between one or two more good players being on your team. That's the kind of stuff that more teams have to start thinking about and not just giving away extra money on extensions and deals. Because then you look a year or two later you go, oh man, we're now bumping up against the second apron. You know, like, look at Minnesota, Minnesota.

[Tim Bontemps]

Look at Cleveland, look at Cleveland.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look at Minnesota. They have to make decisions. Do they keep Nikhil Alexander Walker and Nas Reed and what do they do with Julius Randall? Can Cleveland keep Ty Jerome and Sam Merrill? Like, can, you know, Boston, where we're talking all season, what's Boston? How many players are Boston going to lose because they're so expensive? You mentioned Phoenix couldn't get Cam Whitmore in this trade, at least in part because it was. It cost too much money. Right. Couldn't aggregate that way. So like that's why you just. It's really, I think critically important for teams to be hyper focused on every dollar in these deals. And yeah, like you might have to negotiate a little bit. I'm sure the Sengu negotiations were a little rockier than it would have been if.

[Marc Stein]

I mean they didn't, they didn't happen until right before the deadline, you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

We weren't sure they were October. Both Jalen Green and Shengoon both did the deals right at the end. And the Rockets Quote, unquote, won those one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And that. And that extra 20 or 30 million dollars over the life of Shangun's deal. That could be the difference between them, Tar Eason, or keeping Jabari Smith or somebody else.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just stick with your percentages. This is the way smart teams have been talking for a few years. Not the actual dollars, but the percentages of the cap. If you sign two players to 25% of the cap, that's half of your half of your salary cap. If you sign 1 to 18% and 1 to 21%, you've just created a spot for a whole nother player just on percentages. And then as. And then. And then as the cap goes on, obviously the cap go. Will go up and that percentage goes down. So maybe you don't necessarily keep a player the first year you negotiate hard, but maybe in the third year, you're able to do that. And that's like, look, today, the Oklahoma City Thunder are 100% focused on trying to get their first championship. That is what this is all about. They can't be bothered with what Kevin Durant's being traded for. They can't be bothered on this other stuff. But when this is over, they've got three contracts to sign, okay?

[Brian Windhorst]

They've got to do Chad Holmgren, Jalen Williams.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jalen Williams, Chet Holmgren, and if they can squeeze three, two or three percentage points underneath, you know, if they could get chet Holmgren for 21%, 22%, if they could somehow get Jalen or like.

[Marc Stein]

I'm not. I'm not putting words in the guy's mouth. As far as I know, he's never addressed this, but Shaigil, this Alexander who represents himself now, if he basically says, hey, I want to maximize our chances of contending, I'll take. I'll take a little bit less than the full supermax. Like, there's a lot of possibilities.

[Tim Bontemps]

How do you keep Case and Wallace in three years, you get Chet Holmgren to take 20% instead of 25% of your cap.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, because like you said, it's not. It's not just as simple as you pay everybody. Right? It's not just the owner's got to pay money. Like, the Thunder are a good example. They, in 2014 and 2015 were saving money in 2012 and 2013 to pay the Kevin Durant, Serge Baca, Russell Westbrook Thunder after they all resign. Now, obviously, history went in a different direction, but they wound up having a gigantic luxury tax bill for Russell Westbrook called Georgia, Carmelo Anthony and that money was money they had earmarked four or five years earlier.

[Marc Stein]

All those picks they have, like, they didn't make some splashy all in trade because they knew like, hey, this payroll, if things progress the way we anticipate, is going to get big.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. And so now it's a combination of you have to be planning ahead financially, right? Which the Thunder have been doing to pay all these guys from a pure monetary standpoint. But you also have to plan ahead from a salary number perspective on the cap because you just, if you're, you can go in the second apron for a couple years, but once you do, there's a time crunch because of all the limitations you have on your roster between the draft pick stuff. You can't signal guys over the minimum, you can't aggregate all these things. It just really restricts what you can do with your team. So when you're going to go in there, a, you got to be good enough to win and B, you got to be able to get back out. And so that's the calculus all these teams have to make. And I'm like, look, Orlando just made this Desbane trade. I really like this trade for them. Like, we'll see if they didn't negotiate on Franz Wagner. They gave Franz Wagner Full 25% fund, max. They didn't really fight with him on that. We'll see if in a couple of years we'll see where Orlando's books are at. Maybe they'll have to start making hard decisions and that extra 10 million might end up making a huge difference for him.

[Marc Stein]

You know, the, the other element of the negotiations with, I think Jabari Smith Jr. In particular, you know, a former number three overall pick, a guy who certainly has shown that he's a quality two way player. He was coming off the bench last year. I. And, and you know, because Amin Thompson took, took that job when Jabari Smith Jr. Was out and just like was never coming out of the starting lineup. I wonder now if, you know, is it, is it as simple as, hey, Jabari, you're back in the starting lineup, you know, you're assured of a starting role and then, and you kind of take that element out of any extension discussions. I, I don't know that because, you know, Tar Eason also could very easily slide into the start of the lineup.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, there's going to be a lot we're going to have to discuss. There's going to be more that these teams do. Um, and I cannot wait for where we happens with this Durant contract. And what happens with Fred Van Vliet? Because Raphael Stone has had a very successful campaign as the Rockets general manager.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah. And starting with a full blown tear.

[Tim Bontemps]

Down, Patrick Fertitta, Tillman's son, has a played an important role. Tillman is now the, the ambassador to Italy.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's having Casheway Pepe. I don't know if he's, he's. Yeah. You know how much he's never, he's never.

[Marc Stein]

Tillman's never really been involved in the day to day. Tillman's contribution has been getting out of the way after the Chris Paul trade.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, well, he's, I know.

[Marc Stein]

But seriously, it has been about okay, you guys think this is the best route, I'll buy. And then staying patient when it was painful because there were three ugly years in Houston. But that was what they had to go through.

[Tim Bontemps]

I remember the press conference after the Harden deal and he explained what their thought process was and for an owner who's still very much a new owner, hearing that it was, you could tell that it was a hard sell to the fans, much less the guy who, who bought the team and then, and.

[Marc Stein]

Who bought the team when they were right before they had a 65 win season and the whole hamstring away thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

His first game as owner they won in the defending champion Warriors. I think they opened the season. I don't know if it was the first game or the second game. Right out of the gate they won in Golden State in the first few games of him being an owner and he was running on the court celebrating.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, well.

[Brian Windhorst]

And to go full circle to where we started with this, like there's a lot of parallels between the Tillman Fertitta beginning of his run and the Mattis Bea beginning of his run. And Tilman Fertitta learned his lessons and you know, we've made jokes about the experts now being out of the way. Tilma Fertitta let his front office do its job and they, it took a couple of years and they didn't get everything right. Like they drafted Jalen Green over Evan Mobley which obviously in retrospect isn't great. But if you look at the arc of what they've done, they built a damn good team. They got a ton of assets. They have now added Kevin Durant without sacrificing all this stuff. They're signing guys to good contracts. Like, you know it's going to be very difficult to catch Oklahoma City. But like Houston sitting here and for the rest of the decade there are very few teams Other than Oklahoma City. Like right now, you might even take them over San Antonio, even though San Antonio's victor in the west because of the amount of stuff the Rockets have amassed on this rock, including getting Emojoka to coach the team. So, like, yeah, if you're Phoenix to go back to the beginning, yes, they've. This trade does not feel great to make and let's see what they do over the next week or two. But like, at some point there has to be a looking in the mirror moment to go. We have to do things differently. Can't just keep trying to chase instant gratification of winning today. And it's like, we're going to win the championship this year thing. It's not going to work. And I think we'll have a much better sense between now and July 1 or July. July 6 or July 8, whether the Suns have started to learn some lessons or whether they're now just going to take this stuff and throw it at some other guys who are going to try to win now with Devin Booker to win 40 games.

[Marc Stein]

These are two new owners who, over the last, you know, since is bought the team in the last five years for the Rockets, have taken polar opposite approaches. The Rockets are benefiting greatly from their approach, and the Rockets are also benefiting greatly from the sun's approach.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, that's enough for our emergency pod.

[Brian Windhorst]

On to game seven.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's cover game seven real quick. You guys probably saw that Durant was on stage at the Fanatics Fest in New York City when Shams broke the news. There's a ton of people saying this is when Durant found out. It was really cool to see because he had this huge smile on his face and everybody was screaming. I believe he was on. He was being interviewed by Taylor Rooks on stage and everybody was screaming, you just got traded. And he had this big smile on his face.

[Marc Stein]

He's like, oh, I know. To one of his preferred destinations.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Obviously he knew that it was about to happen. He may not have known it had been agreed to, but when he walked on stage, he knew. But whatever. I don't want to mess with him, just so you know, like he did. He's given some interviews afterwards, sort of saying that same thing, but it was still a unique thing to see. And, and so that, I mean, we've. We've seen guys, you know, we've hear. We hear guys tell stories about where they were when they found out. This one was, you know, in front of a, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of fans I don't know how many people were there, so. All right, thank you to McMahon and to Jackson for cutting their. Their pickup game short to come record this podcast.

[Marc Stein]

No, I finished. I finished the Domination kind of. Really? If I'm being honest, it was kind of like an Albie Shingoon type of performance from me today.

[Tim Bontemps]

All offense, no defense.

[Marc Stein]

Listen, man, they were a top five defense in the league last year, buddy.

[Tim Bontemps]

I said what I said. All right, on to Game seven. We got a bunch of free agency and draft stuff coming. I recorded a podcast earlier today with Jonathan Gavoni, so we'll have that. With the draft starting to turn the page to that and game Post Game.

[Marc Stein]

Seven live stream, I believe these are busy days. Adios, amigos.