Final MVP Straw Poll - Can Wemby Catch SGA?? + The ROY Debate

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: Final MVP Straw Poll - Can Wemby Catch SGA?? + The ROY Debate
Date: April 3, 2026
Panel: Brian Windhorst (host), Tim Bontemps, Ben McMahon
Theme: The team breaks down Tim Bontemps' latest— and most consequential—MVP Straw Poll, discusses the fiercely competitive MVP race (led by SGA and Wemby), unpacks the Rookie of the Year (ROY) debate, and reflects on evolving award criteria.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the biggest and most relevant MVP Straw Poll in recent NBA history. The hosts break down the closest MVP race in two decades, dissect why Victor Wembanyama might still catch Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and delve deep into the hotly contested Rookie of the Year battle between Cooper Flagg and Kant Knoppel. The insiders analyze voting trends, share behind-the-scenes stories, and debate the state of NBA awards and their importance to players, teams, and fanbases.

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Key Segments and Insights

1. MVP Straw Poll Methodology (02:10–04:49)

• Tim Bontemps's Poll Process: The poll is conducted among likely NBA MVP voters — a diverse cross-section (national, international, print, broadcasters, beat writers), as close as possible to the actual final electorate.
• Accuracy: Bontemps' poll since 2017 has been the most reliable projection of real-world MVP outcomes, often nailing not only winners but voting percentages.
• Change in Voter Pool: Team broadcasters may have been replaced by national figures (e.g., Mike Breen) in voter eligibility.
• Quote: "This methodology has repeatedly proven to be as good of a projection on the feelings of the voters as is available until it's done." (Brian, 04:24)

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2. MVP Straw Poll Results Breakdown

Lower-Tier Vote-Getters (05:36–09:12)

• 8th (Tie): Tyrese Maxey, Anthony Edwards, Jalen Brunson (one 5th-place vote each) (05:36)
• 7th: Donovan Mitchell (1 fourth- and 5 fifth-place votes)
• 6th: Kawhi Leonard (1 fourth-place, 14 fifth-place votes)
• 5th: Jaylen Brown (80 ballots, 123 points; only one 1st-place vote)
  • Debate about whether Brown is being underrated; consensus is 5th place and likely 1st-team All-NBA honors reflect a terrific season.

Quote (Brown’s Recognition):
"Finishing fifth and first team all NBA for Jaylen Brown is an incredible honoring of the season that he and the Celtics are having." (Brian, 09:20)

The Big Four – Top MVP Candidates

4th: Luka Doncic

• Key Stat: No first-place votes (12:50)
• Discussion on why Luka isn’t a serious first-place contender despite his dominant season; recent narrative shifts, but poll reflects he’s outside real contention.

3rd: Nikola Jokic

• Key Stat: 3 first-place votes (15:10)
• Jokic's production is stellar (27.5/13/11 on 57% FG, 39% 3PT), but overall sentiment has faded since All-Star break.
• Discussion: Luka’s defense in the second half noted as improved over Jokic.
  Quote: "For podcast content, I'd love to square off with McMahon here... I guess I'm a little surprised... there’s three first place votes for him.” (Brian, 16:41)

2nd: Victor Wembanyama

• 8 first-place votes, 63 second-place; 644 points (20:38)
• Praised for staggering impact and Saints' turnaround; lack of total minutes played noted as central argument against him.
• Minutes Played Difference: Wemby: 1,784; SGA: 2,147 (400+ minute gap) (29:02–30:01)

1st: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA)

• 88 first-place, 9 second-place, 3 third-place votes (20:38)
• Quote: "Shay started out in front. He's led the last five polls in a row. And I think on a lot of these things, ultimately you have to knock out the champ to win." (Tim, 23:14)
• Discussion emphasizes both SGA's extreme consistency and the Thunder’s clutch dominance—leading the league in plus/minus.

The Verdict:

• SGA is currently the overwhelming favorite.
• Wemby has made a powerful late push but would likely need the Spurs to overtake OKC in the standings to win.
• Both Luka and Jokic are now seen as "out of the running."
• Potential for late changes exists only if Spurs catch the Thunder for the West’s best record.
• Poll revealed a binary nature in top-vote split: "[In MVP voting]…the voting's not going to be 60-40. It's going to be like 80-20.” (Tim, 21:00)

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3. MVP Straw Poll Analysis and Statistical Deep-Dive

Net Rating Impact (37:55–39:01)

Ben McMahon shares net rating on/off stats:

• SGA: +9.9
• Wemby: +17.3 (Spurs = .500 team without him, best ever with him)
• Joker: +13.9
• Luka: +6.9
• On/Off Impact: McMahon rails against using team records without the star as indicative, highlighting on/off as true value.

Minutes Debate (29:02–33:11)

• Wemby's low minute totals partially due to blowouts (not just injury).
• MVP precedent hasn't made minutes (over games) a focal point until now.

Quote:
"Part of the reason Victor was playing 21 minutes in those games is because the Spurs and Victor were very cognizant of the 65 game rule." (Tim, 30:50)

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4. Rookie of the Year (ROY) Debate (37:26–54:08)

The Candidates (39:03–41:55)

• 5th: Pelicans' Derek Queen (1 vote)
• 4th: Spurs' Dylan Harper (5 votes)
• 3rd: Philly’s Vijay Edgecombe (92 third-place votes)
• 2nd: Dallas' Cooper Flagg (20 first- and 79 second-place votes)
• 1st: Charlotte’s Kant Knoppel (80 first-, 19 second-place votes)

Key Context:

• Knoppel: Set 3-pt record for rookies, leads NBA in total threes, shooting 43% on high volume; central player in Hornets’ surprise playoff push.
• Flagg: Stellar statistical company: “20 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists as a rookie; club includes Bird, Jordan, Luka, Flagg” (Ben, 41:59).

ROY Race Factors and Interpretations

• Team success rarely figures in ROY, but Knoppel’s two-way impact and Charlotte’s turnaround are hard to ignore.
• Cooper Flagg missed time due to injury, and Mavs “tanking” made him less visible; not his fault, but voter psychology changed.
• Discussion includes nuanced comparison: Knoppel is more than just a shooter, already defending elite backcourt scorers, making team-wide contributions.

ROY Voting Takeaway

• Knoppel's historic shooting, all-around game, and his hand in Hornets’ dramatic season turnaround have made him the clear favorite.
• Flagg remains a generational prospect, and—barring a late, massive swing—he’ll finish second.

Quote:
"For Cooper to not win Rookie of the Year it was going to require a ton of things to happen for somebody else. And they all happened." (Tim, 48:25)
"Either candidate is worthy of winning...it's not criticism of anybody." (Brian, 49:37)

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5. Most Improved Player and Award Philosophy (54:56–60:43)

• Lively digression around the “Most Improved Player” award.
• Bontemps, exasperated, urges the NBA to “shoot it to the moon” due to lack of consistent standards (57:12).
• McMahon nominates Nikhil Alexander-Walker as embodying the original spirit (veteran taking a leap), criticizing giving it to sophomores or generational prospects.

Quote:
"I would like to take Most Improved Player and shoot it to the moon because I think it's the most ridiculous award with the Artemis 2…just take it away." (Tim, 57:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On MVP Binary Vote Split:
  “When this is a binary choice, it doesn't matter if you think it's 60-40 for one guy...it's going to be like 80-20.” — Tim (21:00)
• On Victor’s Defensive Impact:
  “Victor is the most dominant defensive player in the sport and the gap between him and the second defensive guy is bigger than…between the top offensive guys.” — Tim (33:03)
• Classic McMahon Riff:
  “I will take bribes.” — Ben (02:04)
• Windhorst on Fan Logic:
  “Nuance and logic...go out the window when it comes to MVP.” (54:12)
• On Flagg’s ROY Candidacy:
  “Cooper is going to be an unbelievable player…he’s having an incredible season.” — Tim (52:11)
• Joke on Mavericks Fans:
  “I think a lot of Dallas fans are going to be just as pissed off about Luka not winning MVP as Cooper not winning rookie of the year.” — Ben (54:22)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• MVP Poll Methodology: 02:10–04:49
• MVP Results Announced/Analyzed: 05:36–24:20
• SGA vs. Wemby Breakdown: 20:35–33:28
• Net Rating/Impact Stats: 37:55–39:01
• ROY Ballot Details: 39:03–41:55
• ROY Race Analysis: 43:10–54:08
• Most Improved Player Discussion: 54:56–60:43

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Final Thoughts

• The MVP is SGA’s to lose, with only a dramatic Spurs leap plus sustained Wemby dominance closing the gap.
• The ROY race appears settled in favor of Charlotte’s Kant Knoppel, due to his shooting, all-around play, and place in a Cinderella story.
• The crew laments the subjective and sometimes arbitrary criteria that now define many NBA awards—acknowledging the passion and sometimes irrational intensity of fan responses.

Endnote:
This episode exemplifies why the Hoop Collective remains essential listening for serious NBA fans: hard data, honest debate, and plenty of inside jokes and storytelling.

Transcript

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Tim Bontemps]

Hello.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the HOOPP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining us from New York City, Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas is Ben McMahon.

[Ben McMahon]

Howdy, partners. I've got a very important wardrobe update after my.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, I see what you're wearing.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, yes. After my complaints were registered, all I had to do was wait an hour. The delivery came.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is it literally an hour?

[Ben McMahon]

You bet. But does that mean I'm not prepared for a straw pole pod? Still got the ref shirt if needed.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just broke everybody's eardrums. Got the Audi partners in shouting. No, it's great. People are going to be so happy to hear this story.

[Ben McMahon]

Any Jack Astri. I'm ready to roll with the ref shirt.

[Tim Bontemps]

Unfortunately, that's every pod with you, so it's better to have it ready to go.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I will say that I also received the Ryan rook. Oh, beautiful. Our production is just soaring.

[Tim Bontemps]

Our production is soaring and our eardrums are exploding. Geez, what was that foul on you?

[Ben McMahon]

One more, you're out.

[Tim Bontemps]

Clearly, Clearly.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was that with little T. Little

[Tim Bontemps]

T. It'd be a one tack with a little T for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, the other day, Scott Foster with the big T and the immediate ejection. Ooh, what's the T? Who did he eject it with? Just one T. Ejection.

[Ben McMahon]

It wasn't JB Bickers.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nas Reed, which led to a. It was Nas Reed, which led to a 50,000 doll fine for questioning the integrity of the game officials.

[Brian Windhorst]

I am not questioning Scott Foster's integrity. I want to be 100% clear. Or McMahon's integrity. Yet.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yet it's always in play.

[Ben McMahon]

I will take bribes.

[Brian Windhorst]

I also received my Ryan Ruko, you bet gear, and I will be wearing it at an upcoming podcast. All right, so thank you, Ruko. Good luck. You can check that out. Okay, so this is exciting day. Of all the Tim Bontemp's polls we've ever done, this is the most recent, but also one of the most consequential. I think we're headed for the closest MVP vote in over 20 years. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. The man will tell us methodology that Bontemps goes through. He's been doing this poll since 2017.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, in the current iteration since 21. But like dog 20. But overall since 2017.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bontems, two things that are so important about this poll, I say it every time, but you're just going to have to let me go through is it's the likely MVP voters, and it's in every market across the spectrum. This is how the NBA selects the voters. The voters have all been selected, by the way. The ballots aren't out, but the voters have been selected.

[Ben McMahon]

I didn't get. I didn't get one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Again, it's very disappointing.

[Ben McMahon]

During his press conference, if I had a vote, I said no, but I did tell him I like it that way because I can tell everybody I would vote for him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. And then he's just ignores you. Now after that, he's like, yeah, that's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

By that one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. But the voters are in all 28 markets with all 30 teams, and they are printing electronic media, international media broadcasters, beat writers, team broadcasters.

[Ben McMahon]

I think team broadcasters got the boot.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think team broadcasters are out now, I think.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Because some of the national people, like I think Mike Breen might have a vote and he obviously does. Knicks games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's a little bit of that.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is an excellent cross section also at this poll. In the recent past, Bontemps has done this poll the week before the votes are due. He has routinely not only projected the winner, but generally projected the percentage. Because this methodology has repeatedly proven to be as good of a projection on the feelings of the voters as is

[Tim Bontemps]

available until it's done.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now that I have said that, I want to say one more thing. McMahon. And I do not know. I don't know if Jackson knows McMahon. I do not know that the results of the poll. And also I believe there's a second question that was asked this week. And with all that preamble out of the way, Tim Bontemps, please give us. I give you the most consequential Bontemps MVP poll that has happened in the history of the HOOP Collective. I yield the floor.

[Ben McMahon]

There's been a dramatic uptick in inconsequential as verbiage in this podcast.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was going to. I was going to.

[Ben McMahon]

I just want to start with an interruption. Go on.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was going to say, I think this is just because Brian's hoping to get his. His discovery and MVP award. So now it's the most consequential. There's been some. Been a bunch of. Yeah, a lot of discoveries. So we did. We did do two. Did do two questions this time. Did Rookie of the Year Since I'd been asked repeatedly to do it and I thought it was worth doing. And obviously mvp, which I consulted with Jackson to see what order we should go in because he's our boss, and he said to start with mvp. So we're going to start with that and we'll do Rookie of the Year, so.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Tied for eighth place, three guys each got a single fifth place votes, or only 10 people who got votes in the whole poll, which I think was interesting. Philadelphia 76ers guard Tyrese Maxey, Minnesota Timberwolves guard Anthony Edwards, and New York Knicks guard Jalen Brunson. And it is worth pointing out, as part of this poll, I told people not to vote for Cade Cunningham because he's now out for another week that we found out earlier.

[Brian Windhorst]

They just put up an update where he's basically going to be out for the rest of the regulation.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And we, and we pretty much knew he was likely to come back if everything goes well for the start of the playoffs. So I just told people to assume Cade will not be eligible and to tell me where they would slot him in. I will talk about where people told me they would slot Kate in later when we get to the end, not to disrupt anything. So. In seventh place with one fourth place vote and five fifth place votes is Cleveland Cavaliers guard Donovan Mitchell.

[Ben McMahon]

Damn, Wendy, you had him fourth.

[Brian Windhorst]

I did not have him on my ballot.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, there should be one thing. I think that's become fairly quickly clear to you guys, but I don't know if you guys have picked up on it yet.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, definitely not.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, if we're at seven guys, if we're at the seventh place and they've only got a total of nine votes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, there's this.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, the top four is pretty clear the orders.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I, I would. I'm. My point is that the top. The, the. The top of this ballot is pretty, pretty much locked in. So in sixth place, usually we're talking about like 13, 14, 15 guys. This year we're talking. This time we're talking about 10. And I'm at a total of nine votes through seven, through the top with the top six to go.

[Brian Windhorst]

And do you think that's because of the 65 game rule or just because these guys. Guys have separated themselves?

[Tim Bontemps]

I think it's a combination of both. I think Cade Cunningham being out is a factor. I think, you know, Giannis and these other guys being out as a factor. And it's also. I think the top five is fairly clearly separated itself. So in sixth place. With that being said, with 1 4th place vote and 14 5th place votes. Want to guess who that is?

[Brian Windhorst]

Jaylen Brown.

[Ben McMahon]

I'm going to guess Jaylen Brown.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm going to guess not Jaylen Brown.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, I'm going to guess Jaylen Brown is in fifth. And then. Okay, uh, so I'm gonna guess this is going to be Kawhi Leonard.

[Tim Bontemps]

Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi Leonard.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

So again, just to sum this up, we are into the top five. We have two solitary votes for anybody fourth place in fourth place or higher outside the top five. And we have a total of 22 votes or 20 votes, I should say. Yeah, 22 votes for anybody even outside the top five at all.

[Ben McMahon]

So a fourth place vote for a guy whose team's in the play in on this ballot. That's bold.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, listen, Kawhi's had an unbelievable season. I think there's no argument to put him, put him on the ballot. But again, this, you'll. As you'll see, this is very clearly a truncated top five. So in fifth place with one first place vote, two second place votes, two third place votes, seven fourth place votes, and 68 fifth place votes for 80 total ballots and 123 total points is Jaylen Brown.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jalen Brown.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jaylen Brown. That one's pretty. That one's pretty straightforward, I think.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, I was almost.

[Brian Windhorst]

People got first place votes.

[Tim Bontemps]

5. You'll. You'll find out.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. All right. Good job.

[Ben McMahon]

I like those fifth place votes. And I'm sorry, I just, I can't see having him any higher on a ballot, on this ballot to say.

[Brian Windhorst]

There is definitely an undercurrent that Jaylen Brown is not being fairly represented in this race. And with all due respect, I just disagree. And I also think Jaylen Brown, he's headed for first team all NBA, finishing fifth and first team all NBA for Jaylen Brown is an incredible honoring of the season that he and the Celtics are having. This is an appropriate acknowledgment of what he's done at both ends of the court, what he's done without Jayson Tatum and his overall play to be.

[Tim Bontemps]

Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Jaylen Brown has made one all NBA team.

[Brian Windhorst]

Appropriate honoring.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jaylen Brown's made one all NBA team in his career. Like, for him to get this honor, like this is, this is a huge recognition of the year he's had. And he's had a great year, like totally deserving. And whether he's, whether he ends up as the fifth guy on the ballot or whether he ends up sixth or whether he ends up the top of second team or the ends up the bottom of first team. All NBA. It's all going to be very deserving. He's had an incredible year and the Celtics are obviously going to have another chance to make a deep playoff run because of him.

[Ben McMahon]

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[Tim Bontemps]

All right, now things start to get interesting. So fourth place on the ballot. I think we're pretty confident we know who the four guys are at the top in some order. No first place votes, six second place votes, 24 third place votes, 59 fourth place votes and eight fifth place votes for 97 total ballots and 347 total

[Ben McMahon]

points is Nikola Jokic.

[Brian Windhorst]

I got Luka Doncic fourth on my ballot.

[Tim Bontemps]

Lakers guard Luka Doncic is fourth.

[Ben McMahon]

Wow. Wait, you said no first place votes.

[Tim Bontemps]

No first place votes.

[Ben McMahon]

Wow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my gosh.

[Tim Bontemps]

So maybe somebody shouting from the rooftops how things are going to go somewhere.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMenamin just felt a trembling in the field.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, didn't give him a first place vote.

[Tim Bontemps]

McManamon. McMenamon's in the poll. Are there many other people, including you guys?

[Brian Windhorst]

So let me just say also multiple

[Ben McMahon]

west coast people who.

[Tim Bontemps]

There are Lakers, Lakers reporters. Vote in the poll just like every other team.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's all right.

[Ben McMahon]

I'm a little surprised.

[Brian Windhorst]

A couple of things here. Number one, we're recording this again Thursday afternoon. We don't know as we're recording this. And when this poll comes out, the poll voters didn't know what Luca did in tonight's game against the Thunder. Not that I think what happens in that game will necessarily change anything.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, it's just. It's a potential statement game. And he's got another crack at the Thunder next week.

[Brian Windhorst]

Agree. But I don't think people are going to all of a sudden vote him first is what I'm saying.

[Tim Bontemps]

I've been saying for weeks that he's not going to win mvp and it's no disrespect to him. And he's.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I've already noticed an edge in the Laker fan base. Who. And I don't think that most Laker fans believe he should win. I mean, but I think that there is an annoyance that he's not a candidate to win. And what this is saying is that Luka is not with the voters right now. Luka is not even a consideration.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's not a. He's not a serious candidate to win the award. It's not. It's not. This gets taken to be some sort of criticism of Luka Doncic. It's not. He's having an unbelievable season. By the way, so are the other three guys. They're all having unbelievable seasons. So there's really not a bad choice to be made.

[Ben McMahon]

This bucks and likely will shift the DraftKings odds. I'll just read the top five. Jalen Brown plus 25,000. Joker was plus 6,000. Luca plus 1500. Wimby plus 220. Shea minus 300. So Luca being fourth, no first place votes probably will shift those odds.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would think so.

[Brian Windhorst]

We see the odd shift on this poll every year. All right, go ahead.

[Tim Bontemps]

In third place with three first place votes, 20 second place votes, 52, third place votes, 23 fourth place votes and a fifth place vote, 99 out of 100 ballots and 500 total points is Joko.

[Brian Windhorst]

Nikola Jokic.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nikola Jokic. I think that one's pretty straightforward. Not too surprising.

[Brian Windhorst]

So on your ballot, McMahon, you had Luka third.

[Ben McMahon]

I had Luka third. I do think winning matters, you know, I think winning is a, at least a tiebreaker. The Lakers are ahead of the Nuggets in the standings. Now listen, Joker's putting up as good as statistical season as he ever has. He's already clenched a triple double for the season. Basically put up 29, you know, 12 and change and 11. But Luke was leading the league in scoring by decent margin on outstanding efficiency and, and averaging like, what is it? He's basically like 34, 8 and 8 for a team that is on fire and a solid third in the standings. I am surprised by the order here.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, I'm not stunned. I've gone back and forth on those guys where I'd have them on the ballot. Jokic, his numbers are down a bit since the All Star break and Luka, like you said, he and the Lakers have been taken off. But Jokic also is averaging. Just for context. No, we talk about his numbers being down. 27 and a half points, 13 rebounds, almost 11 assists, one and a half steals a game. Like, and he's shooting 55% from the field for the season. And he's also shooting for the season third. Just under 30, actually. I'm sorry, 57% from the field for the season and just under 39% from three. Like, his numbers are staggering.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's leading the league in rebounds and assists and he's averaging 28 points. So I'd love to. For podcast content, I'd love to square off with McMahon here and spar over third, fourth. I think it's totally respectable to have Luka as third. And I think it's totally respectable to say, look, they're ahead in the standings and they won the season series. I think that's totally respectable. I will say I'm. I guess I'm a little surprised. And you guys know how I feel about Jokic and how I feel about he's been playing this year. I'm a little surprised there's three first place votes for him. Yeah, I almost would have been more surprised that there was three first place votes for Luka.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, I'm surprised there's none for Luka and again, I didn't give him one. But I am surprised there's none. And I'm Surprised there's three for Joker. You know, the other thing is, laugh if you want. Luka's having a significantly better defensive at least second half of the season than Joker.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I mean, look, I think in general, Jokic by his extremely high standard has been a little bit under his standard since that knee injury.

[Ben McMahon]

Right, I agree.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and it's also worth remembering in the last poll, right, Jokic was a clear second and Luka was a clear fifth. Right. So Jokic's numbers have come down.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Cade is not in the mix again. I can talk about Cade now. I think it's a good time to talk about Cade before we get to the end. So not everybody who I, I, I threw it out to everybody. Hey, if you want, just mention to me where you would roughly have had Cage, just for context sake, Mo, not everybody did. The vast majority of people said he would be somewhere between third and fifth, which I think reasonably makes sense. Like probably he probably slots in fifth, ultimately. Jaylen Brown probably finishes sixth. Ultimately, if Kate is eligible, those guys are probably fighting for the last first team all NBA spot if Cade is eligible. And it, and it sort of would move all these numbers around a little bit. I don't think anybody told me they'd have had Cade first or second. And like I said, not everybody said where they would put him. But that I think is a good representation that for the most part he would have been in the mix from three to five with these other guys. So that ultimately brings us down to these are the two guys. Do we have any predictions on where this is at before I give the results?

[Ben McMahon]

I think it's Wimby. Shea, just like the odds. But I'm curious to know.

[Tim Bontemps]

So to be clear, you think Shea first and Victor second just because of how you said it?

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wimby.

[Brian Windhorst]

So this ballot, this ballot so far has been my ballot. And I went with Shea first and Victor second. And it seems like I might be existing in the majority here, so I'm going to go that route. The question I have is really at the end of this, no matter which order it's in, because when you make your final assessment, your final assessments here are almost as important as the poll itself. Because in the past you've said, listen, this guy's in first, but I think this guy can catch him. And that's happened the other past you've given. You've gotten to the end of these polls and said, I feel good about where this is and this is the way it's going. To finish. Other times you've said no. I think there's a little liquidity here. So what I'm interested in is obviously who's won two, but how close it is and whether or not this is definitive enough that Bond temps can make a projection here or Bondemps is going to refrain from making a prediction.

[Ben McMahon]

Will Bond temps call the race?

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a spicy. Well, it's a spicy result, so I'm going to list it off. So in second place, both guys, obviously we know the two guys who are left, both guys were on every ballot. So in second place with one fifth place vote, nine fourth place votes, 19 third place votes, 63 second place votes and eight first place votes. Only eight?

[Ben McMahon]

That surprises me. Victor Wembanyama.

[Tim Bontemps]

Victor Wembanyama with 644 total points. So in first place with 88 first place votes, nine second place votes, three third place votes and 100 total ballots, 958 total points is Shay Gildas Alexander.

[Ben McMahon]

Now, I'm, I'm surprised and I gave Shay my first place vote. So.

[Tim Bontemps]

So a couple things.

[Ben McMahon]

I'm surprised.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's got lopsided. People are going to immediately freak out about 88 to 8 and they're going to go, how could it possibly be 88 to 8? I'm going to say the same thing that I've said over and over again about this in the past. When this is a binary choice, which means you pick one person or the other person, it doesn't matter if you think it's 60, 40 for one guy, right? If you think it's 60, 40 for 1 guy and the majority think it's 60, 40 for One guy, the voting's not going to be 60, 40. It's going to be like 80, 20, which is about where this is. Because if in a binary choice, it's not like a ranked choice scale where you can like get percentage points for being close. Like, it doesn't work that way. You either are first or your second. You win or you lose and first or your last. Well, and in this case, for some

[Brian Windhorst]

fans, that's the way they look at it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I, for, trust me, for all fans, they look at it this way. I think a couple things have worked in Shay's favor on this. If you go back to the game against Denver, right, which is now three weeks ago when he had those two shots on national TV to win that game, when did that happen? Right before the NCAA tournament. Right.

[Ben McMahon]

So, well, and then he followed that up by. He didn't make the winning shot, but dominate down the stretch against the Celtics on the night that he broke Wilts.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he. Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's been great since then. But my point is, one of the last enduring memories of the season is Shea having those moments against the Nuggets in that game on national tv, Right. So that, I think, carries some weight. The other thing is, for as great as the spurs have played, and they've been unbelievable for two months, like we've talked about, the Thunder have stayed ahead of them and keep winning all these games. And yeah, I think. I think because of that, like we've talked since the last poll came out, since the All Star break, since the trade deadline, we kept saying, if Victor can catch up, he's going to have a shot to win. Now, if you go back to the last poll, Victor had three first place votes, three second place votes, 19, third place, 23, fourth place, 27, fifth place. He was on 75 ballots. He was behind Kate Cunningham and he was in fourth. Right. So to go from there to a very clear second pass Jokic, and be like within a shout of Shay is a lot of movement. But he was starting from pretty far behind. He has to catch up. And for all the winning they've done, again, the Thunder have just racked up all these wins. And by the way, even on Monday night, Victor has 3, 41 and 16, or whatever he had against the Bulls, stomps them like he's stopping everybody with the spurs right now. And Shea has 47 on national TV, it's all these crazy shots in the fourth quarter, leads them from a come from behind win to beat Detroit at the end, Right? So I wouldn't look at this and say I think Victor has done everything possible to win the award this year. But Shea started out in front. He's led the last five polls in a row. And I think on a lot of these things, ultimately you have to knock out the champ to win. And I do think there's a world where between now and next Sunday, because the Thunder have a pretty difficult schedule and the spurs don't really, that the spurs manage to catch OKC for the top record in the West. And I do think if they do that, there's a chance this breaks some Victor's way at the end. But I think, especially if things stay the way they are now and the Thunder have the top seed in the West, I think this is the ballot.

[Ben McMahon]

Let me throw a scenario at you.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's just.

[Ben McMahon]

And this is a hypothetical that the first part of this scenario, people will know the answer to by the time this airs. But let's say hypothetically that the Lakers win what's kind of a home and home series here with the Thunder, they sweep it and that Luka puts up like 40 point triple doubles in both games. Does that help the. Does that, can that vault him to the top or does that just help Wimby's case?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I. Luka can't win and I don't think Yokich can win. To me the only. And I don't think, I think there's a very limited narrow window where Victor can win but I think it's that window. I think if the, if the Thunder lose like the Thunder's remaining schedule, obviously we're doing this before this game tonight at home against the Lakers. But they've got the Lakers twice, they've got the Clippers, they've got Denver and they've got Phoenix. All games that the teams are going to be trying to win. Like that's not an easy run in to finish out the season. San Antonio, meanwhile, their closing schedule. They've got the Clippers today, they've got Denver on the road on Saturday, huge game. They've got Denver in the final game of the season. They've got the Sixers on Monday and then they've got Dallas and Portland. Two games they should pretty comfortably win. So if San Antonio can catch OKC and they end the season like let's say they win those games, they end the season going like 32 and two in their final 34 games they've won

[Ben McMahon]

27 of the last 28 wins played in rescue.

[Tim Bontemps]

Exactly.

[Brian Windhorst]

So by the way, the Thunder I think have only lost one Shay game in about two months.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, that's, I mean the reason they're ahead of again the spurs since if they win tonight, I believe they'll be 26 and 2 since the start of February. That is insane. The only reason they're not in first place in the west is because the Thunder have gone something akin to 26:2 over the last two months and they've lost a couple more games but that's why they're still ahead. If they weren't superhuman, the spurs would be in first place and Victor would I think be winning the poll and would be winning the award. So I don't see any scenario. I mean again if we want to go back to the Luca trade happened so therefore you have to leave the door open at everything theory. Sure, I guess if Luca goes for 60 in both games and they win, you could maybe Try to draw the scenario up. But I think that would just open

[Brian Windhorst]

the door for Victor. We're talking about one of the most consistent players we've ever seen. The Gentleman is averaged 30 and 50% shooting four years in a row. He's got the longest streak of 20 point games in the history of the sport.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, as long as you're making projections, like.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't think Luke is going to score 70 and Shay's going to score five.

[Ben McMahon]

Shay's not going to have stinkers. I think is safe and I just don't.

[Brian Windhorst]

What's his stinker? His stinker is 22.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't.

[Tim Bontemps]

I just don't see a scenario where anybody other than Victor could beat Che at the end. I don't think it's even close.

[Brian Windhorst]

That I think is definitely. I think that's probably the.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's.

[Brian Windhorst]

And that's going to.

[Tim Bontemps]

And that's going to take something Herculean

[Brian Windhorst]

literally in five minutes here, we're going to stop this podcast down. Cause we have to stop for a minute. Cause I have to go do a Sports center hit.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, big deal.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm big. Well, I'm just going to tell you on this Sports center hit and like these are. I'm going to tell you what the main question is. You can. Guys can be my little prep here.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, thanks.

[Ben McMahon]

What an honor. We'll get those fingers firing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's my usual role.

[Brian Windhorst]

They don't. This is with Hannah Storm and Hannah writes her own questions. And she knows what she's talking about.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

She doesn't. She doesn't. She is not going to. She still thinks Luca can win it. Like, I'm not going to talk about the poll, obviously, but like part of what they. What like the sports and their producers who operate in this world in their. Their job, they all think Luca is still alive in this.

[Ben McMahon]

I'll be honest with you. I kind of did, too, before I heard these numbers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So I'm saying when this comes out, there's going to be. The Wemby factor is going to be significant because Wemby's not going to be happy about this. He. He refreshed his opinion on Scott Van Pelt last week.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, he did. No, he's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

He had, by the way, Victor's last two games. He went. He did a double double in eight and a half minutes against the Bulls. I know it's the Bulls, but he did in eight and a half minutes. And I know the warriors played a joke team, but he went for 20 and 10 in 12 minutes.

[Ben McMahon]

And listen, people are minutes policing Wimby now. Reverse minutes policing them. He was on a minutes restriction for a while, right, Coming back from injury. That's part of the reason his minutes are so low. While they've won 27 of 28, he's still averaging 29 minutes per game. That's not because of a minutes restriction. It's because they're blowing everybody out of the water.

[Tim Bontemps]

Now. That is. That is true. However, I do think the biggest knock on Victor's candidacy is the minutes. Like, I do think if you're trying to split hairs between he and Shea, which, again, this is all splitting hairs. These guys are unbelievable. They're all having unbelievable seasons. But Victor has played 1784 minutes so far going in tonight in 61 games and 52 starts. Sean Gillis Alexander, playing for the Thunder this year, has played. I think I'm going to double check right now. I got it right here. He has played 2,147 minutes. So he's played 400 more minutes. It's almost 10 more games in minutes than Victor played.

[Brian Windhorst]

How many minutes has Victor played again? 17.

[Tim Bontemps]

1780 something. And Shea, in 64 games has played 2147 minutes. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

So LeBron has played 1850 and he's not eligible. Not that I think he would get any votes.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm just saying we don't need to get into an eligibility discussion. But I. But I'm just saying from a. If you're talking about value at the end of the day, like the fact that Shay has been available for 20%, 25% more minutes, if you're trying to divvy this up. Like that matters. Like it matters if you can play more and be available more.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I'm sorry to jump in front of you, McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, maybe my memory squad.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't remember minutes ever. I remember we almost ended our association with each other a few years ago over games played, which, by the way,

[Ben McMahon]

there's a three game difference right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, well, it's. It's a unique.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a unique case, but I never

[Brian Windhorst]

remember ever talking about minutes. But I'm not saying you're wrong.

[Tim Bontemps]

I do think, oh, it's something that

[Ben McMahon]

was whispered in my ears in Bricktown. You know, I'm over there. Goats. It's a unique case because of these low minutes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's a unique case because of Victor's season and because of the. I mean, let's be honest, like, part of the reason Victor was playing 21 minutes in those games is because the spurs and Victor were very cognizant of the 65 game rule.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think the inverse order.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, sure. But regardless, they were making sure Victor was eligible for these games. And like I think Victor, both Victor and Nicole Jokic, as we've talked about, are prime examples of why that rule, at least in the NBA's eyes, I would argue has worked. Because those guys are both going to play barring, you know, barring injury, they're going to play over 65 games. And I think they both would not have had the rule not existed.

[Ben McMahon]

Now, again, the scoreboard is a pretty good indication of value as well. Like that they do keep score at every game. It's important.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Ben McMahon]

And Shay leads the league in plus minus at plus 685 in those 2,147 minutes. In those wee little 1784 minutes, Victor Wembanyama ranks second at plus 661. So a whole bunch of minutes difference and 24 points in terms of plus

[Brian Windhorst]

minus, which is I've started to talk about on my TV stuff in the last week. What happens when they do boost Victor's minutes to 35, 37.

[Ben McMahon]

But again, when they need to now they do.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but I'm saying, like, I mean, when you're trying to create a case for why Victor and the spurs can win the whole thing, it's that this guy, over the course of three or four playoff games might average 45 and 20.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he might do that because when they boost his minutes, that's where his production might be.

[Ben McMahon]

But they're not boosting his minutes to boost him. They're boosting because the games are close.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and what you, I think going to say, you could argue the other way where his energy tapers off some and he struggles some when he has to play.

[Ben McMahon]

Who knows?

[Tim Bontemps]

But we just don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So I actually went back and looked at the Olympics last year or last night, actually, stats Williams did, because I wanted to see. Because I couldn't remember what he did in the Olympics. In the Olympics, you know, where it's all, you know, for the last rounds at least, you know, winner take all.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was averaging 30 minutes, so three quarters of the game. So that's roughly equivalent to not 36.

[Ben McMahon]

Minute 36.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, you know, when it matters, I think that's what you're going to see. I think you're going to see him closer to 36 for sure.

[Ben McMahon]

When they played the Pistons and there are Competitive games he played, I think it was like 36 and 39 in those games.

[Brian Windhorst]

I can't remember where the games were, but I, as I was prepping for this, I went and looked and there's been like three or four instances where there's been high value games where he's gone.

[Ben McMahon]

Correct.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think as high as he's gone into the 40s in an overtime game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And. And again, all of this is to say, I think you, if you want to vote for any of these four guys, I. I think there's a credible argument to be made for all of them. It's not like there's. It's not like there's somebody that doesn't deserve it, quote, unquote. But it's not a matter of, like, who deserves to win. You give out one of the awards and you got to decide somehow. And like, you know that that could be a tiebreaker for you. Your tiebreaker could be that Victor is the most dominant defensive player in the sport and the gap between him and the second defensive guy is bigger than the gap between, you know, Shay, whether Shea is the most dominant offensive guy or Jokic is vice versa. Like, you know, the gap between them is probably smaller than the gap between Victor and whoever your second place defensive player is. So, you know, there's a lot of different ways you can slice this argument up to make a decision, but.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, this. This is where I think no matter how this was going to come down, I was going to be fascinated by it. And I would say that's the case. I want to shift to rookie of the year. But first, I'd like to just pause for a second while I go deal with Mrs. Storm and also Dave McMenamon. One is not like the other.

[Ben McMahon]

I wanted to give him their rating. Swings. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, all right. Well, you can. You can do that while I go down the hall.

[Ben McMahon]

Thanks. In the part that's cut out of the podcast.

[Brian Windhorst]

Don't cut it out.

[Ben McMahon]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, that's done. Now for the bonus section of the Bontemps poll. Uh, Rookie of the Year. This is the first time you've ever delved into this. I don't know if you could delve into this more for other awards, but

[Tim Bontemps]

McMahon had other numbers he wanted to throw out also that you forgot.

[Ben McMahon]

I'm just showing them to the to the people.

[Tim Bontemps]

You can read that? Nobody can read that.

[Brian Windhorst]

So was Net some Net rating thing you wanted to say?

[Ben McMahon]

Net rating swing? I Just want to know net rating swing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, of course.

[Ben McMahon]

The net rating when you're on the floor versus when you're off the floor. This is why Jaylen Brown is an MVP candidate, silly. His is minus 6.2. But top four guys, SGA plus 9.9. Really good. Wimby plus 17.3. Oh wow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is that a commentary on Wemby or is that a commentary on the Spurs?

[Ben McMahon]

Well, they're plus 17.4 with them on the floor and 0.1 in the positive side when they're off. So basically they're a.500 team without them and the best team in the history of the world with them. Okay, that's Most valuable Joker plus 13.9. Luka plus 6.9. Also you know, I keep seeing like Slovenian folks and Luka homers posting all. The Lakers record with him is only 7 and 6. And the thunder were whatever with SGA and the nuggets were I think 10 and 6 without Joker and this, you know, same with the Spurs. Dude, that's a stupid stat. I'm sorry. This is a much more indicative stat of their impact on their team. Anyways, that's all.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, Von Thames has the floor.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. So I decided to do Rookie of the Year. I'd gotten a lot of questions about it this year to throw it in and see how it would go. Obviously only three spots on the ballot for all the rewards. I think fans know that. But MVP has five spots. Obviously the team awards all have five spots because they're teams. But every other award individually is a three person ballot. So that's why the places are a little different on this. So in fifth place with one third place vote, one total vote, is Pelicans forward Derek Queen. And in fourth place with five third place votes, and that's it is spurs guard Dylan Harper. Now I think if Dylan Harper was playing on a different team or if de' Aaron Fox didn't exist, he would maybe be right in the middle of this race. But Darren Fox does exist. He is playing on this team. So he has been in a secondary role and therefore has not really had much of an opportunity. So there are three guys who are obviously very clearly always going to be atop this poll in some order, which is Cooper flagged in our born pick, Vijay Edgecombe, the number three pick went to Philly and Con Knoppel, Cooper's roommate who went to Charlotte with the fourth pick. So in third place with two second place votes and 92 third place votes is Vijay Edgecombe from the Sixers, which again Pretty much is as you'd expect. In second place with a third place vote, 79 second place votes and 20 first place votes is Cooper Flag from the MAVS. And in first place with a third place vote, 19 second place votes and 80 first place votes is Kant Knoppo from the Hornets. Which again to me was not a shocking result. Because as we've talked about for a while, for Cooper, who's had a historically great season, McMahon has a stat. I'll let him use it in a second to show how good a year he's had as a teenager in the NBA. For him not to be Rookie of the year was going to require something pretty historic to happen. And not only has conople set the three point record for a rookie in the NBA, he's currently leading all rookies. Are all all players in the NBA players say in three point shooting in terms of makes, he's made the most threes of any player in the NBA this year is shooting 43% from 3 point range on crazy high volume. Best shooting season by a rookie ever. Easy. And on top of that, he's been one of the driving forces, if not the driving force on a remarkable turnaround in Charlotte where the Hornets have been one of the best stories in the league over the past few months and have gotten themselves into a minimum to play in. And if they, you know, probably aren't going to get into the top six now, but could easily make the playoffs. Whereas the Mavs have dealt with Cooper being hurt for a long stretch of time and they've been flat out tanking for months now and have been completely irrelevant. So all of that I think leads to a pretty expected result.

[Brian Windhorst]

Indy McMahon, you said you had. He said you had a stat you wanted to share.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, okay. It's so 20 points and I've shared. I've shared this multiple times. 20 points, six rebounds, four assists per game as a rookie since the ABA and B merger. Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Luka Doncic, Cooper Flag. Now I say since the A, B and B merger because honestly I'm trying to get one name out of there. Sidney Wicks had a great start to his career, but he's not supersonics.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Ben McMahon]

I believe he was with the Blazers at the time.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, okay. Well, I know him as a Sonic,

[Ben McMahon]

but yeah, anyways, it's not like he's, you know, he's not hall of Fame or anything. The guys who did it before him though, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar. I think that Cooper's probably Ended up.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Sidney Wicks was a four time all star. Like he's not a. He's not a scrub either. But again, pretty, Pretty good. Pretty good company across the board.

[Ben McMahon]

So pretty good company, elite company with one pretty good exception.

[Brian Windhorst]

So here's when I considered this. Here's what it really comes down to. This. And you guys know that Rookie of the Year has sort of historically a different set of parameters. Even though I think Cooper has played 64 games, he's going to qualify. He doesn't. You don't have a minimums game for Rookie of the Year.

[Ben McMahon]

Correct.

[Brian Windhorst]

But he would qualify for awards. I mean, you're right. Bon Temps. He did miss time.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, he missed eight games with a foot injury. But the problem was not that he missed the eight games, it's that Khan went on an absolute error.

[Tim Bontemps]

Cooper has hit the ground running when he came back and the Mavs have been completely and wholly irrelevant for months.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, this is the question. So the Rookie of the Year race is framed differently than the other awards, even by rule. Even by the new rules, it's framed differently. You don't have the games played rule, as you guys know, which came to the fore when we had our little sparring with Embiid and Jokic for MVP a few years ago. I voted mv. I voted Embiid Rookie of the Year when he had 31 games played. I agree that that is, you know, relatively absurd. I'm not like super proud of it. However, I think Malcolm Brogdon won the award.

[Ben McMahon]

He did.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I, I feel good about the history being on my side there. So we have to judge, or at least I had to judge. How do I compute the Mavericks tanking? It is not the, it is not Cooper Flagg's fault that the Mavericks tanked. And Rookie of the Year, your team success typically is not held. No, I mean it helps you, but if your team performs, it's go look at the history of rookies the year. There's plenty of rookies of the year that were on Ben.

[Ben McMahon]

Typically, winning is not a factor in this vote, but that's because typically the Rookie of the Year candidates not on a team that has a chance to win.

[Tim Bontemps]

To be clear, I don't, I don't think, I don't think that, like, I'm not saying that I believe that, you know, the fact that the Mavs are tanking is like some demerit on Cooper's case. I think it's more that if you just look at the way the year has gone, Khan is Having a historically great.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true.

[Tim Bontemps]

Rookie season. And on top of that, his team has been extremely relevant and Cooper and his team have been extremely not relevant.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

So just in the eyes of the

[Brian Windhorst]

voter, he's not going to the games in his own.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's not true.

[Ben McMahon]

I'm going to go see. I'm going to go see the stinking it up Orlando Magic against the Mavs on Friday night and then Easter Sunday. Luke is rising. Coming back, baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Well, who knows how that weekend in Dallas will go after. After Friday and Saturday night off. Okay. I voted for Cooper, which I think

[Tim Bontemps]

is a perfectly defensible vote if you want to vote for him. He's having season.

[Brian Windhorst]

What was the first.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, it was 80 to 20, 80 to 21st place and 19 to 79 in second place. So like, again, it's basically a binary choice. And you know, I can understand, like, I think Khan is going to win. I think this vote would certainly lean in that direction. I understand why anybody would vote for Cooper. He's had a great year. He's, I think, a generational prospect. I think he's going to have an unbelievable career. I think voting for him is totally justifiable. But I think when you look at the. The contour of the race, I think it's going to take something pretty spectacular over the final 10 days to have it be anything other than something like this vote in the end. Yeah.

[Ben McMahon]

I don't remember who I voted for in this one. Both great candidates. Wish you could give to them both. But seriously though, I think people, obviously not the voters, but people in general, if you're not watching the Hornets, you might assume that Khan is a shooter. And what I mean by that, like,

[Tim Bontemps]

that's what you mean. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben McMahon]

He's a lot more than just a shooter. He is already obviously an elite shooter leading the league and three pointers made on 43%, but you know, he's 48% from the floor. He, you know, it's 5.4 rebounds, it's 3.4 assists. I mean, he's doing a lot and

[Tim Bontemps]

they're putting him on elite players a lot of times on defense. I mean, he was guarding Tyrese Maxey at times in the fourth quarter the other day against Philly. Like, he, I mean, he's doing a ton for them.

[Ben McMahon]

You know that game where it's funny, Knipple kind of conceded rookie of the Year after the Hornets trip to Dallas and that was maybe the last relevant Mavericks game of the season. It's when Cooper had 49, you know, set a record for a teenager in the great game and Knipple had 34 and it went down to the wire. Well the play that the most critical play in the game was Knipple coming on a double team to get Cooper at the, at the top of the floor to force the ball out of his hands. Getting the deflection and. Yeah. And coming up with the critical turnover. So again Cooper is a higher ceiling player but it is rookie of the year. And you know Cooper right now there's one really significant flaw in his game that's he's a, he's a bad jump shooter right now. That meaning I anticipate it will develop. I have no doubt he will not

[Tim Bontemps]

be, he will not be a bad jump shooter long term. But he's, he's not a good one right now.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, he's 37% on mid range and you know, sub 30% on threes. I mean he's statistically one of the worst jump shooters in the league. Again three years from now. Do I think that's going to be case? No, I don't. And he's averaging 20 points per game with terrible spacing around him despite that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Ben McMahon]

But if you're, if you're splitting hairs, the redraft, you go Cooper. Every time the rookie of the year, it favors con.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. For Cooper again, for Cooper to not win rookie of the year it was going to require a ton of things to happen for somebody else. And they all happened like that's okay. It's like that's how things go sometimes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. You know the thing about it is I don't, you know the worst part of these, you know, talking about these awards, you know, people, it's such something that, you know, the fan bases get so involved in and I get it. When I was a, a kid and I was really into it, I remember being so obsessed with if my team had a guy who could won an award. I was so into it. So I get it. I don't like the idea of pushing someone else down to lift the other someone else up. I just don't like that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, you don't have to.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the thing about it is when you talk to the people in Charlotte about Khan, the reason I voted for Cooper is, is because of the breadth of what he's able to do. Is we just talked about multi positional both ends of the court. I could go on and on. You get it. Having said that, when I talk to people about Khan, that's what they talk about. Was that this guy is not just a shooter that he can pass, he can rebound, he can screen set. He's cerebral and knows. So it's just like mvp.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's not a wrong vote. Either guy is worthy of winning. One of them has to win. There's four guys that can win mvp. One of them has to win. Like, you got to put them in an order. Like, that's all. It's not, you know, criticism of anybody.

[Ben McMahon]

It's funny when the Mavericks draft Cooper and they go from 11 to one and you know, they've got AD and at the time, you know, there was a thought that Kyrie might come back at some point mid season. And I remember Cooper, his post draft press conference, his first press conference in Dallas, talking about how blessed he was to be in a situation or he could step right into a competitive team, a team, you know, a playoff team. And man, did that thing go sideways on him real quick.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right?

[Ben McMahon]

And then, you know, Khan, the Hornets were perpetually rebuilding. They had no positive momentum, by the way. They had no positive momentum a month and a half in the season they started 7 and 18.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, listen, it's longer than that, like to be. Because I was going back and looking at forever. Well, no, I'm saying this season it was longer than enough. Like, if you, if you look this season. So obviously we're doing this on Thursday afternoon. They play the Suns Thursday night. So this is before that game on January 21st. The Hornets lost to Cavs corner 94, 87 and they were 16 and 28. Okay. Yeah.

[Ben McMahon]

So 12 games under.500 since that game,

[Tim Bontemps]

they are 24 and 8. If they win tonight, they'll be 25 and 8 in the last two and a half months. That's why. That's why Khan is going to win rookie of the Year because he played awesome all season and was part of a remarkable turnaround. And at the same time, Cooper's been really good and his team has not been relevant.

[Ben McMahon]

Now, the flip side of that, though, Wendy, a lot of times you talk about what's a guy's load, what's the burden on his shoulders. Kahn is in a situation where he's probably getting the number three defender on a nightly basis. Lamello is going to get the best defender, probably Brandon Miller and then. And then Kahn, where Cooper gets the best defender and a defense that completely loads up on him. Now, obviously there was no debate about who's going to be first in this draft, but just hypothetically, let's say they switch places.

[Brian Windhorst]

The.

[Ben McMahon]

The The Cooper fit in Charlotte would actually be pretty interesting because the thing that Kahn does best is the one weakness that Cooper has.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, he, him playing four with that team, running the floor. Like he'd be an incredible fit with, with the Hornets just like Khan has been. I mean again that's why this is not, this is not some criticism of, of Cooper's game. Like Cooper is going to be an unbelievable player. He's having an incredible season like McMahon.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do you think the Mavs fan base is prepared for the idea that Cooper is not going to win?

[Tim Bontemps]

I think they're prepared for the game.

[Ben McMahon]

There's certainly been a lot written and said. Like the only thing anybody's talking about with the Mavericks right now is Cuban flapping his gums and whether Coop can be rookie of the year. Like let's just be honest. And there's been a lot written said about just how tight this race is around here. This is an indication that maybe it's not that tight.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I think, I think the hope

[Ben McMahon]

here, the hope here is that there's a repeat of J. Kidd's rookie year when he, when he there was co rookie of the year with Grant Hill.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's not a problem. And I think this is one of the reasons why Bontemp's doing the legwork and getting 100 voters. Even if it may not be the exact 100.

[Ben McMahon]

It's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Just as clear is that he's able to get an idea of where the entire electorate is at. And so I also think his perspective is also important by saying that just because a guy might get 75 votes doesn't mean it's 90 10.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a binary choice. You have to pick one and or the other. So again, if you have 25 people think it's 55, 45 for Khan and they all vote for him, it's 25 to 0. That's 25 to 0. It seems gigantic. It's not that gigantic because it's not like saying I'm going to give one guy a 95 and another guy a 9. Like if you're doing it. Yeah, like grading the guys one to ten. Yeah. Like it. It probably be a very narrow margin in both races but that's not, that's not what the vote is. The vote is picked.

[Brian Windhorst]

That is simple logic. But logic goes out the wind. Nuance and logic.

[Tim Bontemps]

I am well aware that logic goes out the window when it comes to mvp. It's why this draw poll is, has been a thing and it's why People care about it because people.

[Ben McMahon]

I think a lot of Dallas fans are going to be just as pissed off about Luca not winning MVP as Cooper not winning a rookie of the year.

[Brian Windhorst]

You might be. You know what?

[Tim Bontemps]

I believe that I, I mean I. 100%. 100%.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's just sort of sums up the Maverick season. But you still, you still have Cooper.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey, Bombs, you still have Cooper and you're going to have a high pick in the draft. So it's going to be okay.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, you're going to get a guy

[Tim Bontemps]

to pair with them and that's what I mean.

[Ben McMahon]

You're going to get a president of basketball operations/GM to MAVs are going to be a good decision.

[Tim Bontemps]

Mavs should be a okay going forward if they nail this pick. But what do you got?

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, did you. Did you do the most improved player straw poll? Because somebody television audience made an absolutely ridiculous suggestion last night.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't think it's ridiculous.

[Ben McMahon]

Did you hear about.

[Brian Windhorst]

No.

[Tim Bontemps]

What I have to say, I do not know what you're talking about. I'm going to take a wild guess that it was Brian. I'm going to take a wild guess that he said his discovery should be the most improved player in the league. That's what I'm going to assume.

[Ben McMahon]

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's not what I said. Words matter.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, so what did you say?

[Brian Windhorst]

First off, I said that Jay was getting a jackass.

[Tim Bontemps]

I honestly have no idea what you said. So this is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I will tell you what I said. First off, I said on Countdown on Wednesday night that Jalen Duran has been so terrific in this stretch without Cade, especially scoring wise, when people, including me, have said for months that they don't have a reliable second scoring option in Detroit. The guy is dropping 30 point games left and right. So I said that he is. I don't think he's quite qualified yet because he's got some games of under 20 minutes. Under 20 minutes. So he still has to qualify. I think he will like by the weekend. But Jalen Duran has locked up most improved. What I said was you could. Victor has been so incredible this year that you could make a case. Do you hear what I just said, McMahon? That you could make a case for him to win defense, most improved and the mvp. He is not going to win two of those three awards.

[Tim Bontemps]

Give him everything.

[Brian Windhorst]

Marlon said you can make a career. Oh, do you think that's the wrong position to have? That Victor should not be honored just giving you.

[Ben McMahon]

No, I think that shooting 67% from the floors you just did is a pretty strong percentage. I think that's outstanding. I think suggesting that the guy whose points per game are up 0.4.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Ben McMahon]

Whose rebounds are up 0.5.

[Brian Windhorst]

But are you watching him play? Okay, that's fine. That's fine. You can read the stats for the next half hour. Are you watching him play?

[Ben McMahon]

I got the hands going. I got the hands going.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, because if you're watching him play, I don't, I don't care about the stats because you're watching him play like his, his skill development is, especially his shooting. I mean, whatever. Look, I'm just saying you can make a case. I'm not saying he should win it nor he obviously is not going to win it. I'm just saying that you could make a case.

[Ben McMahon]

Would you like to call me any names?

[Tim Bontemps]

I would like to take most of proof player and shoot it to the moon because I think it's the most

[Brian Windhorst]

ridiculous award with the Artemis 2.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, put it on Artemis 2 and take it away and have it permanently go away because I just think it's a ridiculous award every year where there's no, there's no criterion for it. It doesn't really make any sense. Half the time you have people saying guys in their second year should win the award when everybody usually takes a big jump in the year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do you know what, by the way,

[Tim Bontemps]

I just have no time for this debate every year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do you know what the name of who the trophy is named for? I did not know. I now know.

[Tim Bontemps]

I can't remember. I don't remember the names of all the victims.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, it's a Bob Pettit contemporary. Let's put George. The George Mikin.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, the George Mikin Award. That's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[Ben McMahon]

The guy who came in, I believe he was the scoring leader, maybe the MVP as a rookie.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think he might have been rookie of the year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I just.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I guess by the mic and drill. You did your mic and drill and you improved.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, just get rid of it.

[Brian Windhorst]

The history of the most improved player award is that it used to be called the comeback player of the year award, which was like, for like Jason Tatum would be a strong candidate to win this year as an example. But the problem was in the 80s, guys can play 65 games. You're right, the comeback player. But how many most improved has to play?

[Tim Bontemps]

Guys were. Guys are getting comeback player of the year after not coming back from things

[Brian Windhorst]

that were drug suspensions. They were getting drug suspensions. So they changed to most improved. And so the wards genesis is a little bit fractured.

[Tim Bontemps]

It would just be nice if they got rid of.

[Brian Windhorst]

But listen, if you want to criticize me for being too effusive about Victor Wembanyama, I am here to accept that criticism. I will stand on that side of the guilty.

[Ben McMahon]

I'm just saying the man's trophy. He can't clutter his trophy case with

[Tim Bontemps]

most of the players by the way just won don't tell window that just

[Ben McMahon]

won Western Conference defense player of the month.

[Brian Windhorst]

Actually, I just made a fool of myself. I didn't think that they named March player. I thought that they named March April. I think they have in the past. So I literally just said on television, I just literally just said on television right before when we broke, I said that it would be fascinating to know who would have won most improved because they were making the case who could Yuka still win the mvp and they were showing Shay and Victor and Luca's last 10 games or whatever. And I was like, boy, it would have been fascinating to know who would win March player of the month because it's such an incredible thing. And I'm like, too bad they don't name one. Well, as I'm doing this, they're naming all the March awards. They're all coming out right now. So player of the month is coming in the next 10 minutes. I just said on national television they don't do it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nice work.

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, shout out Nikhil Alexander Walker.

[Tim Bontemps]

We can't.

[Ben McMahon]

We're at least going to throw him into this unplanned most improved player discussion. The guy more than doubled his scoring

[Tim Bontemps]

average from last season, has had an

[Ben McMahon]

incredible season, averaging 20.6 points per game for a team with a winning.

[Brian Windhorst]

I also don't even like giving most improved player awards to guys like in their third season. Like, I've kind of like, yeah, to

[Ben McMahon]

me Duran is like the fourth year guy who makes the leap. Okay, but I agree, like second year, third year. I don't know, man.

[Brian Windhorst]

So like I'm. I'm undercutting my own comment, but that's. Having said that I stand by it.

[Ben McMahon]

I feel like Alexander Walker kind of most represents what the award should be though. A veteran who makes a leap.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. And, and I'm sure if Bontemps did the straw on that that he would prank up there.

[Ben McMahon]

Not. Not a. A generational prospect to continues getting better.

[Brian Windhorst]

Correct. All right, thank you very much, Bontemps, for all your work. We've concluded another season of the Bontemps poll.

[Tim Bontemps]

There you go. There you go.

[Brian Windhorst]

He can take it easy now for another seven months. McMahon. His contributions are now over.

[Tim Bontemps]

His contributions are now over.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Thank you very much to our producers.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, he didn't thank me. His feathers are ruffled.

[Brian Windhorst]

You didn't thank me. No. Just hold your water there, buddy. Oh, I want you to set up to give your little tagline. Just settle down.

[Ben McMahon]

My water and my official Brian Wyndhurst cup.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you very much to Devon, Tucker and Jackson who put this show together. Thank you very much to Bontemps for this Bontemps poll. Thank you very much to Hannah Storm. Thank you very much to the folks at DraftKings. Thank you very much to Josh who set this room up for me. Thank you very much for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. And thank you to Ban McMahon.

[Ben McMahon]

Gracias, Wendy and adios, amigos.

[Tim Bontemps]

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