Flagg To Play Point Guard? Rockets Ready For Finals? Southwest Division Deep Dive

Summary

Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective (Sep 2, 2025)

Episode: "Flagg To Play Point Guard? Rockets Ready For Finals? Southwest Division Deep Dive"

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Overview

This episode takes a comprehensive look at the NBA's Southwest Division, evaluating roster moves, off-season strategies, and early forecasts for the 2025-26 season. Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, and Tim MacMahon ("the crew") dive into the division's biggest questions: Is Cooper Flagg about to run point for the Mavericks as a rookie? Are the Houston Rockets truly title-ready after a massive offseason? How will the Spurs, Grizzlies, and Pelicans shape their present—and their future? The discussion is dynamic and rich, including analysis of roster construction, contract extensions, trade implications, and division depth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Milwaukee Bucks: Thanasis Antetokounmpo Re-signing [05:01]

• Thanasis' return to the Bucks is primarily seen as solidifying Giannis' contentment.
• McMahon: "If it makes Giannis 1% happier during the season, it's probably more than 1% since we know how close he is. I have 0% problem with it." [06:13]
• The crew agrees that using a roster spot to keep a superstar happy is a standard practice in the NBA.

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2. Southwest Division Deep Dive [08:32]

a. Dallas Mavericks

• Projection: ESPN predicts them as a play-in team with a record of 44-38.
• Biggest Unknown: When will Kyrie Irving return, and in what form?
  • MacMahon: "The Mavericks are very difficult to predict for a variety of reasons. The primary one is because we don’t know when Kyrie’s coming back. Although he's ahead of schedule..." [12:31]
  • Anthony Davis’ (AD) durability and the team's heavy, frontcourt-oriented roster also raise questions.
• Flagg at Point Guard?
  • With only D’Angelo Russell as a true ballhandler, Flagg may be asked to initiate offense.
  • Bontemps: "[If Russell is out] they’re probably going to have the ball in Cooper Flagg’s hands a lot which will be great for his long-term development. It probably won’t be great for ... short-term winning..." [14:27]
• Starting Lineup Puzzle
  • Will Klay Thompson come off the bench?
  • Flagg starting at point guard would be a story, but removing Klay from the starting five could be even bigger.
  • "If Klay's coming off the bench, that's going to be a story," (MacMahon, [22:52])
  • Bontemps: "Are we sure they’re not going to start...Cooper Flagg at point guard? ... It might be easier to start him at point guard than it would be to have Klay Thompson come off the bench." [23:12]
• Roster & Extension Notes
  • Kyrie Irving (3 years/$119M), Daniel Gafford (3 years/$54M), and PJ Washington (eligible for 4/$89M extension).
  • Gafford's extension keeps him trade eligible. "He’s a quality, starting caliber center, whether he’s starting for the Mavericks or not." (MacMahon, [20:33])
• Forecast: Mavericks are talented and big, but their odd roster construction and injury issues make both their floor and ceiling difficult to gauge.

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b. Houston Rockets

• Projection: 54-28, 2nd in West.
• Major Moves:
  • Acquired Kevin Durant (trading Jalen Green & Dillon Brooks), signed Dorian Finney-Smith, extended Jabari Smith Jr., re-signed Fred VanVleet, loaded up on big men (Steven Adams, Clint Capela).
  • "Houston really leaning into this multi-big lineup," (Bontemps, [29:26])
• Double-Big Identity
  • Adams + Capela = rebounding and defense stalwarts.
  • "Last year the Rockets were a really bad shooting team but it didn’t matter when they had those guys out." (MacMahon, [32:15])
  • With KD and more shooting, offense should be more dynamic.
• Alperen Sengun Watch
  • Dominant EuroBasket stats: 20p/9r/7a on 68% shooting.
• Contract Management
  • Rockets praised for “doing a very good job with their contracts.”
  • Reed Sheppard’s role expected to grow.
• KD’s Future
  • No extension—"Just point that out. All right." (Windhorst, [33:09])
• Outlook: Rockets are loaded, big, and versatile with championship aspirations.

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c. San Antonio Spurs

• Projection: 44 wins (tied with Mavs, forecast under by Bontemps).
• Key Developments:
  • Drafted Dylan Harper 2nd overall; signed De’Aaron Fox to franchise-record contract; Popovich retired, Mitch Johnson promoted.
  • Notably: "It also helped that [Johnson] has a very good relationship with Victor [Wembanyama]." (Windhorst, [36:34])
• Rotation Questions
  • How will the three point guards (Fox, Harper, Stefan Castle [last year’s Rookie of the Year]) share minutes?
  • Vassell, the “two,” complicates wing lineup.
  • Acquired Luke Kornet for big depth.
  • Bontemps: “It's going to be fascinating to see how Mitch Johnson handles that and how they play together and what that looks like this year ... they’ve got young guys, they’ve got to figure it out.” [39:47]
• Frontcourt "Thinness"
  • Awkward fits across roster; more backcourt depth than forward/center.
• Flexibility
  • Significant expiring contracts + picks could allow for mid-season trades.
  • “They are in position if they want...to reformat this roster in like a two or three for one trade with some draft picks.” [42:04]
• Mandate: Transition from mere rebuilding to being competitive, “zooming out of the rebuild.” — MacMahon, [44:16]
• Wemby Factor
  • With him: elite defense (would rank #4); without: near last.

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d. Memphis Grizzlies

• Projection: 42-40, 10th in West.
• Coaching Revolution
  • Thomas Isalo’s offensive sets, revered across coaching circles, now get a full offseason to be implemented.
• Roster Reset
  • Desmond Bane traded for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (KCP) and picks; “reset,” not a “downgrade.”
  • Jaren Jackson Jr. extended (5/$240M); suffered turf toe, may miss opener.
  • Santi Aldama (3/$52M extension); Ty Jerome signed as 6th man.
• Rookie pipeline:
  • Jalen Wells (2nd round, now starting), Zach Edey (lottery pick, recovering from ankle surgery), Cedric Coward (new draftee expected to play), progression expected.
• John Morant: Franchise’s Pivot Point
  • “None of that is even evaluating how many games Ja Morant’s going to play…If they’re going to go back to being a top four team...it was when Ja Morant was an all-NBA player.” (Windhorst, [54:22])
• Team’s Outlook: Ja’s return to form is crucial; team is trying to build around Jaren Jackson for the long-term, took a "wait and see" with Ja’s extension. KCP’s bounceback is a wild card.

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e. New Orleans Pelicans

• Projection: 26-56, bottom five team, pick likely conveys to Atlanta from the recent derick Queen draft-night trade.
• Front Office Shift
  • Joe Dumars hired, Troy Weaver brought aboard — team promptly swings deals for DMV favorites Derick Queen (draft, via trade) and Jordan Poole (+ Sadiq Bey, another Weaver draftee).
• Health & Uncertainty
  • Dejounte Murray: Achilles rehab; Zion Williamson: recurring injuries, partially-guaranteed contract.
  • "Zion...has no value right now, so. Well, it seems he has relatively no value." (Windhorst, [62:09])
  • Trey Murphy, Herb Jones returning from labrum surgery; Queen and Fears, rookie guards, expected to play big minutes.
• Rebuild Stuck in Neutral
  • Bontemps: "If you're playing a rookie guard a lot of minutes, probably going to be really rough." [62:52]
  • MacMahon: "The Pelicans are going to be the worst thing you can be in the NBA and that's a bad team that doesn't benefit from being bad." [64:41]
• Big Man Signings
  • Joined division trend by scooping up Kevon Looney for backup center depth.
• Draft Pick Fallout
  • Their poor record this year hugely benefits Atlanta in the 2026 draft.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If it makes Giannis 1% happier during the season...I have 0% problem with it.” — Windhorst on Thanasis Antetokounmpo re-signing with the Bucks [06:13]
• “What do you get with D’Angelo Russell?” — Bontemps on Dallas’ lack of ball handlers [14:26]
• “If Klay’s coming off the bench, that's going to be a story.” — MacMahon [22:52]
• “Houston really leaning into this multi-big lineup.” — Bontemps [29:26]
• “Last year the Rockets were a really bad shooting team but it didn’t matter when they had those guys out.” — MacMahon [32:15]
• ‘The Pelicans are going to be the worst thing you can be in the NBA and that's a bad team that doesn't benefit from being bad.’ — MacMahon [64:41]
• “Rebuilds are hard. Rebuilds always sound good. When’s the best time to start a rebuild? A year ago.” — Windhorst [67:43]

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Division Outlook & Closing Thoughts

• Big Picture: The Southwest is a study in tiers and trajectories. Houston is locked in as a true contender. Dallas is fascinating but deeply volatile. San Antonio is loaded with high-potential pieces—though awkwardly matched—and on the cusp of competitiveness. Memphis’ fate rides on Ja Morant’s form and Jaren Jackson’s health. New Orleans is rebuilding on a treadmill: loaded with injury risk, youth, and without its own pick.
• The episode highlights the changing nature of team-building: extensions, expiring contracts, who controls which picks, and the pitfalls of being bad without a pick.
• Lots of uncertainty but also a glimpse at future stars (Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper, Jeremiah Fears).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:01] — Thanasis Antetokounmpo re-signing, Bucks/Giannis context
• [12:31] — Dallas Mavericks roster, projection, Flagg’s role, starting lineup debate
• [18:17] — Roster/extension analysis (Kyrie, Gafford, PJ Washington)
• [28:29] — Houston Rockets offseason overhaul, double-big philosophy
• [31:02] — Sengun and EuroBasket, Adams/Capela impact
• [34:43] — San Antonio Spurs: coaching change, Dylan Harper, Fox signing
• [42:04] — Spurs’ expiring contracts and flexibility
• [46:43] — Memphis Grizzlies: Isalo offense, roster “reset,” Morant’s importance
• [54:22] — Morant as the franchise’s pivot point
• [58:27] — New Orleans Pelicans: front office changes, Derick Queen, Zion situation
• [64:41] — State of the Pelicans, draft pick ramifications

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This episode is rich in insider analysis, scouting notes, and strategic big-picture thinking for anyone following the Western Conference—and especially the Southwest’s most intriguing storylines in 2025-26.

Transcript

[A]

What's up Australia?

[B]

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[C]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Monday evening, Labor Day evening. Joining me from New York City's Tim Buntemps.

[B]

Told McMahon I'd get cleaned up after the pod the other day. I followed through some clean shave, like.

[C]

Mid season clean shave. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, post Labor Day work. Yeah, America wakes up to go to work tomorrow. Not us. We're, we're not working for weeks. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, Bam McMahon.

[D]

Howdy partners. Fresh back from a little brief trip to Costa Rica. Living that Pura Villa, dipping on some of those Imperials. But now we're back.

[C]

I just want to say the pod.

[B]

Was traveling all over the place this weekend.

[C]

Yeah, I was in LA Sunday.

[B]

Jackson. Jackson went down to watch Syracuse get annihilated in Atlanta. It's a rough trip.

[C]

I took in the LA Sparks Washington Mystics game on Sunday evening. Key battle for playoff lives. Sparks were victorious. Kelsey Plum brought him home 14 points in the fourth quarter. Yeah, McMahon, who didn't have pre check for the first 15 years of PreCheck's existence, we were trying to see how long it was going to take him to get through customs tonight. And we said, hey, do you have global entry? And he said, what's that?

[B]

I believe what he. I believe the direct quote was I don't know what that is.

[C]

I don't know what that is.

[B]

Which I said I would have been all my life savings that that would.

[D]

Like was like 18 minutes. That wasn't bad. Some of the, like finding the, you know, getting to the car where it was parked in a different terminal, it.

[B]

Is just dumbfounding that for as much as you travel you, I mean global entry is one thing. The fact you went as long as you did without pre check in Dallas where there's a bazillion people flying is pretty insane.

[D]

And I have to say they used to be pretty good with the priority lines. They've slacked off on those now. Now some of these things don't even have the pre check line. But Anyways, I must say that I was.

[C]

This is something that's going to be interesting. Apparently bon Temps talked McMahon into joining one of these guillotine fantasy leagues. Now this is a Matthew Berry thing. Did Matthew Barry come up with this or am I just.

[B]

I have no idea.

[C]

I'm not in the.

[B]

A friend of mine just asked me to do it today and I asked a couple friends, including Big Ban who I know fantasy football and well, I knew you didn't really want to play fantasy football, so I didn't ask you. But McMahon does. So McMahon's new.

[D]

Yeah, new concept. You know, it's. It's like a survivor league. Right. Everybody knows a survival kind of like that. Except for this one. Whoever is you don't play head to head 18 teams. Whoever's worst is is done for the year. Their teams go into the free agency pool and then. Or their players rather.

[C]

Oh, that's interesting.

[D]

Go. So 10 bucks. If it had been more than 10 bucks, I probably wouldn't have done it. But the price is right and so off go.

[C]

I feel like McMahon has Bontem sometimes surprises.

[B]

McMahon got the second. McMahon got the second pick.

[C]

Who you go with?

[D]

I win. Bijan Robinson over Saquon Barkley.

[C]

He is showing his Texas well also Barkley gets one.

[D]

A little bit concerned about Barkley after last year's workload. Two, he gets robbed of touchdowns all the time.

[C]

That Bontemp sometimes surprises me what he, what he knows about like all of a sudden like you'll like, he'll like know stuff about like Formula 1 or like Formula 2. Like who's leading Formula 2 and he'll Formula 2.

[B]

There is a formula too though I have no idea who's leading it.

[C]

Well, whatever. My point is like global. I'm just hearing some sports. Sometimes you'll like Von Thumps will be like, oh yeah, so and so won the Zurich Open last week in like tennis. I'm like, okay, so. So I would, I would wager that McMahon would trounce Bontemps with his NFL knowledge. But like Bontemps is sneaky with this kind of crap. Here's the thing.

[D]

I used to know a lot about football. Now I watch a lot of football, but don't know nearly as much.

[C]

That's what they say about Bill Belichick. Okay. Apparently we talk about the NBA. I just want to note. I just want to note just. Just because we had a little moment. Thanasis Antenna Kumpo resigned with the, with the Bucks over the weekend. I'm just gonna say two Things about that one. Whatever doubt that was left with Giannis and you can ask 10 different people and get 10 different opinions about how much doubt there was.

[B]

Obviously there wasn't much and now there's none.

[C]

Well, there wasn't much by, you know, mid August, but there was some doubt earlier this year that. Let's. Let's just be honest about that. That's number one, I'm going to say. So you know, Thanasis resigning and look, I have a personal relationship with Fanasis. Happy for him.

[B]

Friend of friend of his. Pod.

[D]

Yeah, been on the pod. I mean, goodness sake.

[C]

Happy for him. Greece is doing pretty well. Yes. Euro basket. Giannis is dunking. Luca is screaming at his teammates and putting up triple doubles, which rarely happens in European basketball. So that's good.

[D]

Joker putting up crazy numbers.

[C]

Yoker Joker is untouchable. And Lowry market is putting up 40 point games. That's everything is normal.

[D]

Don't worry about playing apparently spectacular defense. He said that's what sold the bucks on getting this deal done.

[C]

Yeah, and the second thing I want to say about this is I have 0.000 issue with the Bucks giving Thanassis a contract. If it makes Giannis 1% happier during the season, it's probably more than 1% since we know how close he is. I have 0% problem with it.

[D]

You have an issue with it? Is Costas. What's the younger brother's name? I think it's Alex. Yeah, like at some point it's like, hey bro, like, pass the sticks. Come on, man. But no, I mean, listen, it is not the only time in NFL or I'm sorry, NBA history that a superstar has had a, an extra roster spot assigned to him because of somebody he got along with very well in the locker room. This happens to be his brother. And so if that's what keeps helps keep Giannis happy, I would say it's a wise investment.

[C]

Listen, they get superstars in the NBA get extra lockers, they get extra staff members, they get extra large hotel rooms, they get extra privileges, get extra coaches. It's fine with me. Yeah, good, good, good, good work. Probably a more efficient use of money as opposed to cutting Dame Lillard with 100 million and then spending it immediately on Miles Turner.

[D]

But we'll in real honestly like a minimum spot. What is, is it their 14th or 15th roster spot? Do they still have one open?

[B]

I guess it's their 15th spot.

[D]

Okay, whatever. The, the bench, he is a hype man. Like there's, there's plenty of. Of Times that the last spot on the bench goes to a guy who is a vet, who's good for the locker room, who ain't gonna play.

[C]

Absolutely.

[D]

This happens to be a guy who's related to the superstar.

[B]

The actual, I mean the actual interesting thing about this is they have, they have, they actually have 17 players under contract, including Amir Coffee, who they signed earlier this summer from the Clippers, who is a decent rotation wing and should play a decent amount for them, and Andre Jackson, who is a pretty high second round pick a couple years ago, who I would guess since he's on a non guaranteed deal is probably less likely to make the team now. But they are going to have some interesting and a roster decisions to make because I'm pretty confident the guy who just signed will not be getting cut in training camp.

[D]

I would say so.

[C]

All right, our divisional wheel. We're looking at the divisions his spun down McMahon way.

[D]

Oh, we go from Cavs corner to my neck of the woods, huh?

[C]

That's right. Southwest Division, part of the i35 corridor. A healthy representation.

[D]

We get a nice slice of it. It's, it's, it's still weird that Oklahoma City is not in this division for geographical reasons, but that goes back to the olden days of, you know, how.

[B]

Many people could actually name all the teams and all the divisions.

[D]

I'll be honest with you, I always have to look up.

[B]

Yeah, the Atlantic and Pacific divisions are easy and the Southeast is pretty easy because they're all literally in the Southeast. The rest of them, it's like, good luck.

[C]

Yeah. The Thunder being in the Northwest Division, a legacy I suppose of the Sonics, is a little bit ridiculous. But anyway, we're going to start there. Why don't we start with the Mavericks?

[D]

They start math. You want to start with the favorites?

[B]

We'll start with the maps.

[C]

Start with the maps.

[B]

Hometown team, bro.

[C]

Yeah, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to bring you back into the country.

[B]

We start with Cav's corner the other day. We'll start with, start with the maps today.

[C]

Ease you off that Costa Rican survey, by the way.

[B]

One thing, one, one thing. It was wild. We were texting the other day and McMahon, who was in a. In Costa Rica, which is mostly, I believe, in the eastern time zone geographically and Texas in Mountain time. I was blown away by that.

[C]

How much do we believe think that McMahon knew what time it was there?

[D]

Well, I know I knew exactly.

[B]

I looked it up on my phone because I was like, is there some Chance that there have been a bunch of surveys that have been consumed early in the day and it was. He was bang on.

[D]

No, no. I figured out real quick because, okay, I had to find a sports bar that would show college football and we.

[B]

Had to watch the hoop collective showdown between the Horns and Wheels.

[C]

I wasn't gonna bring it up.

[D]

I wasn't go well and go well. Tough one for Arch man. But the sports bar that I found opened at 11. I'm like, perfect, that game starts at 11. But no, it started at 10 there. So I missed the first hour. Turns out, I was gonna say. Anyways, back to.

[C]

Let me just say that every week on threads I do a little Q and A. Ooh, self promotion. Yes. Recently someone asked me if we would do a podcast. Jackson, you'll have to chime in here and see if you think this is feasible since you're. Since the i35 corridor is your home base, someone asked me if we would do a podcast like in a car on i35. Like do a live podcast. Jackson. I don't know if the sound of the road would be a little bit. Be a little difficult, but McMahon and I says doable.

[B]

Jackson, ace producer, can make it. Make it happen. Of course.

[D]

Listen, if there's like a Mav spurs playoff series or we could even do Mavs. Thunder, Thunder spurs, who knows? There's a lot Thunder spurs being too long to drive. I'll be honest with you.

[B]

I've done that. I did that drive for Thunder spurs way back.

[C]

Guy who talks about i35 all the time, Bon Thomas. McMahon doesn't touch it.

[B]

He doesn't. He don't. We don't believe in driving.

[D]

I got you right there. Right on up to Oklahoma City.

[C]

That is true. So McMahon and I, I got stranded in Dallas going to Oklahoma City for the west finals last year. McMahon drove me from Dallas, a true squire.

[B]

He was there on the dot, ready to go. Got to.

[C]

Very early in the morning and I work. I did tape like a two minute long like little mini pod of us talking, looking at i35. But then I decided not to give it to Jackson. So hell, I didn't like the. I didn't like the product.

[B]

All right, Dallas Mavericks back to the Mavs.

[C]

ESPN's never failing prediction group Prediction has the Mavericks as a play in team at 44 and 32. 8.

[D]

So the Mavericks are very difficult to predict for a variety of reasons.

[C]

Well, I can think of one.

[D]

The primary one is because we don't know when Kyrie's coming Back. Although he's ahead of schedule, he's you know, on the court at least doing some like, you know, light shooting and stuff like that. There's a long way from being on the court obviously to playing NBA basketball. But I think more than anything you don't know if, if Kyrie is going to be able to get back in like all Star. I would say last year he was on track to be an all NBA to that kind of form this season. So that, that makes it very difficult to predict then obviously ADS durability is going to have a big and a big impact on how they fare. And then it's a. There's a lot of talent on the roster, but it's kind of a funky roster. It's a very front court heavy group. Aside from Klay Thompson. It's a, you know, especially while Kyrie is out, it's a pretty, they're pretty light on the shooting department. And then you know, we all obviously think Cooper Flag is going to be really good. Certainly that's not exactly like a out on the limb type of opinion, but how much is he going to be able to drive winning and like what exactly is his role going to be as a teenage rookie?

[B]

Yeah, I mentioned the other day on the last spot we did that as part of the forecast. I did a story picking five teams based off the records we projected that I thought would go over and under the number. And Dallas is one of the teams I picked to go under the number. And it's for this exact reason. They have one ball handler on the roster in d' Angelo Russell who is. You're expected to have the ball in his hands and, and what do you.

[C]

Get with d' Angelo Russell?

[B]

Well, he's a. He's not all that great and on top of it, he's not often that available. He's missed more than 20 games in more seasons than he's played less. He's missed less than 10. So if he's out for any chunk of time they've got, I mean they're probably going to have the ball and Cooper flags hands a lot which will be great for his long term development. It probably won't be great for his short term, short for the team, short term winning on the court. As McMahon said, this is a very funky and interesting roster. It's a huge roster, but it is one that's gonna struggle from a shooting and spacing standpoint a lot of the time. Let's see how healthy this group is in general. Anthony Davis misses time. Derek Lively has had unfortunately a bunch of different issues. Right. So let's see, let's see where he's at. You know, they're going to be a very interesting team to watch for a lot of reasons all season. Number one obviously being how does Cooper play. But I, I don't like that number based off the difficulty of the west and just the amount of things that I think could potentially go sideways this year. Despite the fact that if they are fully healthy and if say kyrie's back on March 1, if they can get into the play in and be fully healthy on April 15, they're probably going to be a team that nobody's really going to want to see in a seven game series because they've got a couple stud players and they're a huge, interesting team that could cause some matchup issues.

[D]

Yeah, I don't think it's insulting to say that the Mavericks are likely going to be a playing team. I think the question is, you know, can they be a dangerous playing team? You know, they, they have cleaned like they got a real strength coach this year instead of, you know, the silliness that went on last year. You know, they, they've cleaned up some things. They had a ton of turnover on the coaching staff.

[B]

I mean another thing to monitor too. How does that go?

[D]

Well, yeah, you know, they have a ton of turnover but like Frank Vogel's the lead assistant coach, like tell me, elite assistant coach with stronger credentials in the league than Vogel. So it's hard for me to be, you know, very critical of that. You know, like I said, it's going to be an interesting season. I think it's going to be a very kind of up and down season. And then it's also like it's a difficult team to evaluate because it's a team that is very much in a win now window. But they just drafted an 18 year old generational talent with number one overall pick. So it's, there's a lot of, a lot of funkiness. And by the way, like they, you know, you talk about how huge they are. You know, they've got these two lob catching centers who have both shown that they can be very productive players. But those are guys that you, you bring in to play with a pick and roll. Genius, right? Who's not on the roster anymore. I don't know if people have heard he is still on the Vitsky way. They put the big overwatch billboard right there off Navitsky Way of Luka Doncic. It says cowboys never die but they do get traded apparently both him and Michael Parson.

[C]

But it, you know, they do sign with free agents. Free agents, like. I'll go ahead. Never mind.

[D]

Yeah, Mike Parsons got traded.

[C]

Sorry.

[D]

And then, but you know, like, and even like Clay Thompson, like Klay Thompson was brought in to, to you know, provide spacing and play off of Luca, to get a bunch of wide open threes off of Luca. So they've, they've got a lot of pieces that I don't necessarily know how well they all fit together. And like the.

[C]

Well, Nico Harrison thinks they fit together pretty well because he keeps extending these guys. So he extended Kyrie Irving this summer, which is, you know, no brainer. Three years, 119 million. Kyrie could have opted into his contract but did a new deal. He extended Daniel Gafford three years and 54. So 18 million there. And PJ Washington, I believe last Friday became eligible to be extended. He is in the last year of a contract paying him 14 million and a strong candidate to be extended as well. That's doubling down on this roster.

[B]

I think the max on that would be 4 for 89 that he's eligible.

[C]

For as a, as a quick, as a quick commentary. His max, which is different from the max.

[B]

The max he's eligible to. Yeah, we need to do a better.

[C]

Job as media of differentiating that. In fact, we need a different name.

[D]

How about just the most he can extend forward?

[C]

Well, that's fine. Instead of using fine, but you know that if that's what he signs for, sure. People, you know, people will say he got.

[B]

Can't extend for, for fans at home. He's not allowed to extend for more than four years and 89 million. So if he extends for that, that's because he's not able to get more than that.

[D]

But look, the Kyrie thing is about. Kyrie is one of the faces of the franchise and you know, they had to, they had to pay him. And Kyrie compromised and played ball to give them, you know, by taking a little pay cut to give them the wiggle room of having the salary slot to sign d' Angelo Russell. And certainly what he ended up signing for was a lot less than I believe he anticipated getting going in the free agency process. Certainly pre injury. Gafford, notably his extension is for the most he could get and remain trade eligible. That doesn't mean he's getting traded, but it means that he does remain eligible. And Daniel Gaffer, whether he starts with the Mavericks or not, is a top 15 center in the league. Is that fair?

[B]

I Think it might be a little.

[C]

High, but he's Think about that. But. Well, he's a good.

[B]

But he's a. Yeah, he's a good player.

[D]

He's a quality, quality starting caliber center.

[B]

To go back to your to go back to the thing we've talked about many times, that is a tradable deal.

[D]

Exactly. That's my point. He's a quality starting caliber center, whether he's starting from Mavericks or not.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

That's a contract that puts him right in kind of the middle range. It's a very tradable contract. And you know, PJ Washington's role this year is going to be interesting. I don't think it's out of the realm of the possibility of possibilities that he could start and have Cooper Flag starting at the two.

[B]

I was going to ask you because of how funky this roster is. What do you. Obviously we haven't got to training camp yet, but if you had to handicap it, what do you think their opening night starting lineup is? So assuming people are healthy, who are.

[C]

They playing on opening night?

[B]

Again, I believe they're playing the Spurs. Correct.

[D]

Spurs again, which seems to be like an every game thing or an every year thing.

[C]

So if Cooper Flag starts on opening night, who's he guarding?

[B]

Well, that's a part of that depends on I think who else is starting. So who, who else is starting? Anthony Davis is starting honestly.

[D]

Well, so that, so that gets Back to this. PJ Washington guarded the best 1 through 4 player last year, Nico Harrison. And I think it was the draft night press conference that he did, you know, made a point to say, you know, PJ was watching Cooper Flag workout, made a point to mention that, you know, he said to pj, you think you can play this guy? And PJ was like, oh yeah. And I thought I, I kind of read, I don't remember the exact comment, but I kind of read that as a hint of, hey, PJs might be starting alongside this guy. So I'm not going to make a prediction. I'm just going to lay out the possibilities. Daniel Russell, I believe is going to start as obviously a stop gap for Kyrie, either Cooper starting right, Cooper starting either, Gaffer Lively starting AD starting the, the Gafford lively thing. To me that's not that because I think they're pretty much going to split time. The big question to me is will it be P.J. washington in A, in a jumbo size shooting, not so much lineup, which would mean Klay Thompson's coming off the bench.

[C]

Which let's just start every game last year. Is that correct?

[D]

I believe so. If Clay's coming off the bench, that's going to be a story.

[B]

Are we sure? Are we sure? Because this, this is why I asked. Are we sure they're not going to start, let's say Derek Lively, so many Selfie, Anthony Davis, P.J. washington, Klay Thompson and Cooper Flag at point guard. We sure they're not doing that? We sure they're starting d' Angelo Russell over Clay?

[D]

I cannot completely rule out that possibility.

[C]

I've had no conversations about this. I haven't talked to him about it. If you start Cooper Flag at point guard, I'm not saying he's not going to play point guard.

[B]

Listen, they've talked about it. They've talked about it a little bit and it might be easier to start in October.

[C]

I don't know. I would be stunned.

[B]

It might be easier to start him at point guard than it would be to have Klay Thompson come off the bench.

[D]

So Clay came off the bench for 14 games in the 2324 season for the warriors. And it's no secret that he hated it, felt disrespected. One of the reasons that, you know that there's a lot of reasons he decided to leave the warriors, that factored in. It was also like when he came to the Mavericks last year, there was a very clear guarantee of a starting role.

[B]

I was not coming off the bench in this scenario behind Kyrie Irving, where that would be harder to argue.

[D]

Right. I was actually surprised last year that they went to Clay closing on a case to case basis, on a game to game basis as quickly as they did. I just think, you know, guys, with Clay's resume and his pride, if you're asking him to come off the bench, you know, I don't know if that's going to be awesome.

[B]

Like, like I said, it's one thing if he's starting behind Kyrie, if he's coming off the bench behind Kyrie Irving, it's another if he's coming off the bench behind d' Angelo Russell. And I'm very curious. I'm just fascinated to see how this plays out with that.

[D]

Yeah, and, and whatever. Like that's a possibility. But whoever's coming off the bench, there to me is a much bigger story, whether it's Clay, P.J. or D' Angelo Russell then.

[B]

Right. Because Russell coming off the bench is a big story because it means Cooper Flag is your point guard.

[D]

Right. That's, that's a much. That's a much bigger thing to me than whoever's starting at center just because I think that'll go back and forth and I think they'll pretty much come close to splitting time with ad. Sure, not that many minutes at center.

[B]

More Hoop Collective Podcast after this game.

[A]

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[B]

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Tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back, so I thought it would be.

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Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

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Of 45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra c mintmobile.com all right, let's go down south a little bit to a place where I think McMahon will find himself more this year. The Houston Rockets, who are favored to win this division, made a little little moves on this roster in the off season. Trading for Kevin Durant. Wait a minute, let's see what our, our forecast is. By the way, this is where we had all of our people. There's like 50 some people that steal money from ESPN believe they have one of them.

[B]

I believe they were second.

[C]

They were second in the West. Projected at 54 and 28. One game better than the Denver Nuggets this off season. They obviously traded Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks for Kevin Durant. They signed Fred Van Vliet to a new contract. Getting to take a pay cut in a one plus one which wouldn't be surprised if he opts out and changes that salary next year. But he took a pay cut. Signed Dorian Finney Smith in free agency away from the Lakers. Extended Jabari Smith Jr. On a five year deal I believe with no opt out. Resigned Stephen Adams to be a backup center.

[D]

Signed Clint Capella to also be a backup center.

[B]

One of the, one of the stranger moves of the summer that was truly.

[C]

A July or June 30, like wow, Clint Capella is going to be a Rocket again. That was true.

[B]

And three, I mean the biggest thing was three guaranteed years for Clint Capella. Yeah, I thought he might be on a minimum deal this off season and instead he got, I mean it's not a huge deal. It's three for 21. But still like I, well, I mean it's really, it's a sign to me of Houston really leaning into this multi big lineup and like giving Steven Adams nights off and like they're, they're going to be playing big lineups a lot.

[D]

Yeah, Stephen Adams is never playing them back to back again. He's going to, his minutes will be managed very carefully during the regular season. But he, you know he had a heck of a playoff series. They, and they did. The, the numbers, I don't have them in front of me but the numbers for that double big lineup both during the regular season. Which by the way they first tinkered with that during ADS Mavericks debut when AD dominated the first half. They kind of started tinkering with it in the second half and AD got hurt too. But then it's something they used very successfully down the stretch of the regular season in the playoffs, you know, helped them make that series against the warriors competitive. But they couldn't win that series for one simple reason. They didn't have a go to guy. They do now.

[B]

They certainly do.

[C]

By the way, we didn't mention Alperian Shingoon Turkey A oh, it's 40 in the Euro basket. Serbia. Yes, they are 40 in the Euro basket. They play Wednesday. I mean they're going to both advance to the 16.

[B]

I was looking up the, I was looking up the numbers on the, on the double big lineup while you were.

[C]

Talking Shengoon averaging 20 points on 68 shooting in Euro basketball. Yeah, nine rebounds. And how about this, we know he's, you know, he's calling him Mini Yokich. I don't know if I wants to hear that. But we know that they, the guy, the guy can handle the ball and create in 27 minutes a game averaging seven assists a game.

[B]

Oh, very good passer or the turkey.

[D]

With him is can he be a primary offensive hub?

[C]

Not primary but he can do some stuff, man. I mean he's really something. He's a really interesting player.

[D]

He's awfully young and still developing.

[B]

He's very good. So the Stephen Adams. I'm usually only using the regular season numbers because the sample size is much bigger for that. But in 41 games in the regular season total of 162 minutes, those two guys together had an offensive rating of 122 and a defensive rating of 92, a net rating of 29.9 and an offensive rebounding rate of over 50%. They hammered the boards well.

[D]

And here's the thing. Last year the Rockets were a really bad shooting team but it didn't matter when they had those guys out there.

[B]

A couple of vacuum cleaners out there grabbing all the shots. And that that is going to be fascinating to see how that looks obviously with Kevin Durant as part of it now.

[D]

Yeah. And they're a better, a significantly better shooting team now because you they added one of the all time elite shooters in NBA history as their go to Guy and Kevin Durant and then Dorian Finney Smith is quietly a little shooting upgrade now. He's probably a 20 minute per game guy for them. He's not going to Play heavy minutes. And, you know, he. Like last year, he basically was playing the whole season on one wheel.

[B]

You.

[D]

Know, but he's a. He's another three and D guy or desperately needed three and the guy. And then hopefully some of their young guys are going to develop, and I believe Reed shepherd will have a significant role that also upgrades their shooting.

[C]

Yeah. So Reed shepherd is actually one of these things you're going to keep an eye on early in the season to see what Eme Udoka is willing to let him do. But the Rockets, Fascinating. We talked recently about Kevin Durant, you know, going to the last year of his contract. Point out that we're now into September. We have no contract extension. Not really want. I don't really want to go over it all again, but I'm just thought we should point that out. All right.

[B]

Worth reminding everybody the Rockets have done a very good job with their contracts, so just leave it at that.

[D]

Norton Tar Eason's contract extension is not done yet. At least I believe the Rockets would like to have Tar Eason's extension done first. Just to kind of know what. What kind of math that are working with.

[B]

That'll be interesting to see if that one gets done. I'll be. I'll be curious on that.

[C]

All right, let's head. Is it I10 you take from Houston to San Antonio? The longest highway in America.

[D]

I believe in America.

[C]

Sure, I believe so. It runs from like, I believe it's.

[B]

Jacksonville to Santa Monica.

[C]

Yeah, I was on it.

[D]

I've got a great. I've got a great i10 story from my freshman year in college, but I'm not comfortable telling that.

[C]

Oh, damn. I. I got excited there first.

[D]

It involves a U haul coming from St. Pete, Florida, heading to New Orleans.

[B]

Oh, man. Getting pulled over.

[D]

But that's all I'm gonna go with.

[C]

That's why I've heard that.

[B]

I have heard that story before. And that is not a podcast story.

[C]

Dismissed from another institution is not a podcast.

[D]

I think I still have some community service hours.

[B]

Oh, man.

[C]

All right. All right. San Antonio, Victor Wembanyama. We are hoping we'll be back and ready to go at the start of the season.

[B]

All indications are it will be.

[C]

That's a big factor. Looking forward to having Victor in our lives again. A lot of good stuff happening at Euro Basket. Victor not being there. A bit of a bummer. Okay, so the spurs with the two big things that they did in the off season. They drafted Dylan Harper with the number two overall pick. There was some curiosity about whether they might make that pick available. They did not very happily took Dylan Harper at number two. He had a pretty good. Didn't play that much in summer league, but had it showed some good stuff. And then, you know, the big thing was they signed Dear and Fox. Probably the biggest contract. I haven't looked this up, but my guess is it's the biggest contract in the history of the franchise.

[D]

There's another pretty big thing. Pop retired and they.

[C]

Well, that's true. Pop retired. Yeah. And they promoted Mitch Johnson becoming full time head coach. Yes, that's key. I mean that was how they finished last season. So it wasn't sort of a change. But you know, it wasn't necessarily a slam dunk that Mitch Johnson was gonna get that job full time, but you know, did well. I think it, you know, it also helped that he has a very good relationship with Victor. You know, last year after Pop had the strok, Mitch Johnson, you know, he was the guy who worked out Victor before every game. You know, every, you know, some of the assistant coaches split up certain players and they will, there's a routine that they go through. And Mitch Johnson was promoted to, you know, interim head coach and he stayed working out with Victor before every game. And I guarantee he was the only head coach in the NBA last year who was out there pregame rebounding for a player. But if there's going to be a player you're going to rebound for in, in San Antonio, it's going to be Victor.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So I assume he's graduated from beyond that. But he sort of was, you know, kind of had a foot in both worlds.

[D]

I don't know for certain, but I would wager that Sean Sweeney, the new associate head coach there, who had been J. Kidd's right hand man at multiple stops, will take over the Victor pregame workout.

[C]

Well, that's.

[B]

I bet a lot of money on.

[C]

I would recommend that for Sean if the, if the option is there, I'd.

[B]

Recommend it for Victor. Based off the people that Sean has worked with in the past, be pretty good.

[C]

So one of the big things about the spurs, and we've talked about this before, but I think it'll be a talking point around them is how they're going to handle their three yards. So they've hugely invested in Dear and Fox. Obviously when they, when they traded for Dear and Fox, they had no idea they were going to be a high lottery team because they didn't know that their season was going to collapse.

[B]

But they had a very good idea. They'd be giving him a four year max extension, which they did.

[C]

That's true. But they didn't know they were going to have Dylan Harper.

[B]

No, for sure.

[C]

So they, so they've got Dylan Harper then they've off Police obviously got Stefan Castle who was a rookie of the year last year. And you know, Devin Vassell doesn't play ball.

[B]

He's a two, but he's a two.

[C]

He's a two. So yeah, you know, you have those four. You know you're gonna have difficulty if you play the sell at three. I mean they can play the sell at three, but there's going to be some issues that by the way, I should point out they also had an interesting maneuver signing Luke Cornett away from The Celtics.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Three year, 30 million dollar deal. I think it was 30, maybe three.

[B]

It was a four. It was a four year, $40 million deal, basically. But the back two years are non guaranteed.

[C]

Right. So they, you know, the, the race to get backup. Quality backup. Quality big man death. I won't say backup just to be nice, but quality big man depth in the Southwest Conference is strong.

[B]

Southwest Division, Southwest Conference is a little bit of a different thing.

[C]

That's true. You're right. Southwest Division, this is, you know, that's going to be the big thing is how are they going to fit everybody minutes there and you know, this team is not competing for the championship. You want to see Dylan Harper play, you want to see what he's got.

[B]

You didn't mention it earlier, but in our forecast they were tied with the Mavs for 44 wins. And again, to go back to the piece I had the other day, they were another one of the teams that I picked the under under on. And it's for these reasons, like if you just look at the roster, like obviously, as you have been fond of saying, nobody really wants to put any kind of ceiling on Victor. And if you just say, hey, Victor is going to be back and play like an MVP and the spurs are going to win 47, 48 games. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that's crazy. But if you look at the roster, it, it's incomplete, I would say. And they're very light in the front court as you just laid out. You know, they don't have a ton of depth at the three or the four. They're very backcourt heavy. Those three guards don't really fit together, at least on paper. It's going to be fascinating to see how Mitch Johnson handles that and how they play Together and what that looks like this year because to your point, Stefan Castle needs to play. Dylan Harper needs to play. Devin Vassella's had a bunch of injuries. He needs to play. Darren Fox is obviously going to play. That how they manage all of that is going to be very interesting. And it feels like a team that is still probably a year or two, probably at least a year and a couple of moves away from really being a team you look at and say, all right, this team is fully ready to go. They're going to be a top four six team in the West. They're going to be challenging Houston and Oklahoma City and Denver and the elite teams in the West. I imagine these guys are gonna be tough to play on a nightly basis, especially Victor's back playing the way he was last year or better. But it just feels like the jigsaw puzzles don't seem to quite fit together yet, which is okay. Like they got young guys, they got to figure it out.

[D]

I don't know how. I don't know. Are they really that thin in the front court?

[B]

I think so.

[D]

They've got Harrison.

[B]

I mean Harrison Barnes at this point probably should be coming off the bench. I would say Kelvin Johnson should be coming off the bench. And those guys are, those guys are really their only when you look at their meetings. Jeremy Sohan is a. What is Jeremy Sohan? That's a great question. Like what is he?

[D]

I don't know. And does Carter Bryant play much as a rookie? We'll see.

[B]

He's another guy who needs to play. Like he's a really interesting young player. He is a wing sized guy. He needs to play. But again, his shot is another guy who. His shot is a real question. But if he can ever shoot it, he, he's got a chance to be a tremendous defensive player. But yeah, like again, Julian is actually.

[D]

Not a bad player. Not a whole lot of people.

[C]

He's a rotation player. I, I will say, I would say.

[B]

He'S more of a two, but he's another guy to play on the wing and, and shoot the three.

[C]

You talk about the roster being incomplete. I think I should point out that Harrison Barnes and Kelly Olenek $32 million in expiring. I don't know if they extend Jeremy Sohan. He is extension eligible but if they don't, that's $40 million in expiring. And you know, they've got a trove of picks. So I'm not saying they're going out hunting to like try to walk down the Thunder but they are in position if they want. If they see an opportunity to reformat this roster in like a two or three for one trade with some draft.

[D]

Picks if they wanted and not been a team that made splashy trades. But they did last year.

[C]

They did last year and you know when there was Giannis stuff up in the air there was sort out of the corner of your eye you're watching San Antonio.

[D]

But yeah, they opted not to get in on the. On the KD bidding as it was despite Katie putting the spurs on his list. And you know, when do you predicted that the combination of breakfast tacos and women yama would make Spurs San Antonio attractive destination? I think we started, we have started to see that certainly boxing, you know, made sure he got his way there.

[C]

I'm just saying I had to drive from Austin to San Antonio recently and those are the same like there's no.

[D]

Gap in those Dallas Fort Worth kind of thing at this point.

[C]

It's a little farther away but like you know, like Austin, San Antonio is like it's. It's basically connected now. That's how much those two cities have grown.

[D]

Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're in a. I think they're in a really good spot overall. Obviously even well beyond Victor. I think Dylan Harper is going to be really good. I think Carter Bryant's got a chance to be really good. I like Stefan Castle. It's just the piece is just it's. They're all. There's a lot of awkward fits. It just. It's going to be. They're going to be one of the to me the most interesting teams to watch in the whole league this year here obviously to see how Victor does and to see how these different pieces fit together because clearly we're going to be waiting to see if Victor can be part of the next contending team. And what the spurs do to put pieces around him is going to be a critical part of what that looks like.

[C]

And if the spurs were in the east, where would we pick them?

[D]

Fifth maybe?

[B]

Yeah, probably fifth or like they'd probably be somewhere around where Detroit's at. Maybe. I would say.

[D]

Yeah, here's the thing like that like.

[B]

Detroit, they've got one really, really good player and then they've got a bunch of interesting. Well and Darren Fox is a better player than anybody else on the Pistons but after that they've got a bunch of really interesting young players that we have to see how they fit together and what they look like. And I think that's what this year is going to be about more than racking up wins.

[D]

Yeah, and the Pistons zoomed out of their rebuild last year. Now, they're a developing team, but that's proven they can be a competitive team. The spurs have to make that jump this year. They're not rebuilding anymore. They're still tinkering. They're not a finished product by any stretch. But it's time to zoom out of the rebuild to being competitive, which, hey, that might be ninth in the Western Conference, but it's time to be, you know, to take that jump and be above.500. And it's damn sure time to be better than the 25th ranked defense. Now, the primary reason they were the 25th ranked defense is because Wimby ended up missing, you know, close to half the season. They had a 110 defensive rating with Wimby on the floor. Would have been the 4th ranked defense without him, 118.2 would have been 29th. Just in case you were wondering why Luke Cornett was such a priority for them.

[B]

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[C]

All right, let's head. I believe Memphis is on I40. Okay, maybe I65.

[D]

I fly there.

[C]

You fly from Houston to San Antonio, buddy. I know how you roll.

[B]

True.

[C]

And you stand and you. And for years you stood in the regular line. All right, Memphis. So let me just say first off, they were picked by the ESPN group to go 42 and 40. That's 10th the edge of the play. In. I was talking to a scout last. Or actually an assistant coach. An MBA assistant coach and he was going on a tour of colleges to study their coaching methods like just to take some time in the off season. And he was going to some, some power conference colleges and visiting their coaches. And he was in the middle of this trip. I think he visited five or six schools across the country on this trip and he said that in three or four places when he walked in and saw the assistants and he couldn't believe it. Not that somebody was doing this, but that he actually kept seeing it over and over. Over the course of this 10 day trip. They were looking at Thomas Szalo's sets that he had been running when he was with Paris basketball.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Not necessarily at Memphis, but they were reviewing them like you know there's, you know, Izalo is, you know, obviously the, you know Zach Kleiman won a bidding war with Will Dawkins and Michael Winger in Washington to get Zalo last year. But there's like these, just these, all these devotees out in the coaching ranks who loved the way still are studying the way he ran stuff in, in Paris.

[B]

He played fast, ran a lot of pick and rolls and shot a lot of threes.

[D]

So and, and we don't, we didn't get a feel for that last year in Memphis.

[C]

He got hired March 20th or something.

[B]

That's also not what they were doing.

[D]

Most well, but he was, yeah, he was an assistant, he was the lead assistant. But it was the, it was such a strange thing. And we covered all this last year when, yeah, you know, when they had the coaching change mid season and it wasn't only Taylor Jenkins obviously who who got fired, but it was Noah Laroche, this back row assistant who was winning the offensive philosophy tug of war and running thing that basically running the system that basically had no screening and is a very interesting con, a lot of interesting concepts, a very interesting system. But the superstar hated it and if the superstar hates it, it doesn't tend to last. So he didn't last the full season either. So. And then you have the solo getting the reigns in late March. Like how much can you put in in late frickin more. I think there was nine games left in the regular season.

[B]

So the answer is not much.

[D]

Yeah but obviously he's got a full off season training camp, preseason. It'll be his offense. It just won't be nearly as potent of an offensive of team as it was last year when they had.

[C]

Right. So let me go over their maneuvers from the off season. So they in the arms race in the Western Conference and maybe they would Argue that they didn't downgrade, but they traded Desmond Bain there. You know, arguably their third best player.

[D]

I think resets, the word that is preferred.

[B]

Okay, I think we go, I think if we go back to the end of the playoff run because it is worth mentioning when they got smoked by the Thunder. Zach Lyman, I'm paraphrasing this a bit but essentially said you can't look at this team and think we're a contending team in the West. And his actions this summer would indicate that he believed they needed to take a bit of a reset. And they got. We all like Desmond Bain a lot. I think we all think he's a great fit in Orlando, but they got a ton for him and I'm not sure it moved him that much farther down the standings.

[C]

Yes, so that may be true and maybe they're going to be. They would be a play in team either way, but maybe not. Anyway, so they got, you know, the key player that they got in that deal was Kentavious Caldwell Pope. In addition to the first round picks they renegotiated and extended. Jaren Jackson Jr. Made his contract five years in 240 and then he almost immediately came up with a turf toe injury, needed surgery and will be might miss the start of the season.

[B]

More most importantly though, kept him out of free agency next summer because he was a guy who was going to be an unrestricted free agent and there were plenty of teams around the league wondering if they were going to have a shot at him, especially when he did not make all NBA and didn't win defensive player of the year and then Dust didn't qualify for a supermax extension. And to go back to what we talked about earlier, PJ Washington, because Jaren Jackson was on a descending deal, he could not really get an extension to where the Grizzlies typically would have been able to get him to resign. Which is why they made moves last summer to clear cap space so they could give him a bunch of money up front so they could extend him.

[D]

I can also tell you the turf toe happened before the signing. The announcements just were in the opposite order.

[C]

Fair point. I appreciate you pointing that out. If you have cap space in the NBA, you can use cap space many different ways. You don't just have to sign a free agent. You can absorb a contract from somebody else. And one of the things that's rare, but we do see it is you can use that cap space to give a player who's under contract more money, which is known as a renegotiation and extension which is what happened here, which is what Bontemps just described. They also signed Santi aldama to a three year contract extension, I believe about 52 million. Their big free agent addition was plucking Ty Jerome off the Cleveland cavs in a three year, I think about a 30 million dollar deal over 327 or 30, something like that. One of the top guys for six man of the year last year and then I don't know how much of a role he'll play this year but they made a draft night move which they've been known to make draft night moves before trading up to get Cedric Coward using. I think they used Bon Temps that they use one of the picks that they got for.

[B]

They use one of the picks from the. Use one of the picks from that trade and I expect Cedric Coward to play. He, I don't know if he's going to start but I mean they need guys to play on the wing and assuming he's healthy, he missed a bunch of last year. I think he had a shoulder injury at Washington State. He played five or six games and he was a late riser in the draft process. I believe he started his career at D2 or D3. Really interesting backstory but I, he's a, you see him, he's a 67 wing like he looks the part and I, I think he's got a chance to be a rotation player for them this season but we'll see similar kind of.

[D]

Arc as far as the college path that Jalen Wells took and Jalen Wells took Mark a smart starting job last year and certainly we'll be, we'll be.

[B]

We'Ll be replacing Desmond Bain in the starting lineup this year.

[D]

Yeah, certainly projects to be a long term starter there.

[C]

He also Zach Edie who was their lottery pick last year had off season ankle surgery.

[B]

He's gonna miss the start of the year too. Likely.

[C]

Yeah it was pretty significant surgery that he. I think he gave an interview I saw I'd like to give. I think he. I'm not sure who give credit for but I remember seeing an interviewer he's basically like I didn't have a choice, it had to be done.

[B]

Well he'd had a bunch of different ankle sprains over time. They eventually said we gotta do something about this and hopefully it takes care of the problem because he had a really nice rookie year and you know is going to be an interesting piece for them going forward.

[C]

There are moves with Desmond Bain. We've mentioned this before but it's also a vote of confidence in Jalen Wells that their, their, their second round pick in 24 who played a big role last year. So there's a lot going on and none of that is even evaluating how many games John Morant's going to play. Because out of everything that we just talked about, John Morant's availability and effectiveness will probably be way and above. Like obviously you need Jaren Jackson to get out there and play. He's, he's their second best player. But you know, you, this team, if they're going to go back to being a top four team, which they were for several years, it was when John Morant was an all NBA player and he hasn't been that for various reasons for the last few years. And so, you know, it's important to note all that stuff.

[B]

You talk about playing fast, you talk about playing with a lot of pick and rolls with a lot of shooting around them, that all should play to the strengths of John Moran and should also frankly pay to the strengths of Ty Jerome. Coming off the bench behind him like that I thought was a sneaky good signing for Memphis despite, you know, Ty had a rough playoffs. He has some flaws, but you saw us here at the Cavs, similar kind of uptempo, free flowing system. He can do some damage offensively. So. But yeah, like everything with Memphis goes back to John Morant. And what version of John Moran are we going to see and can he ever get back to the heights he was at a few years ago when he was, you know, looked like he was going to be one of the faces of the league?

[D]

Yeah, the, the, the change in the offense late last season was about okay, hey world, we're moving forward Jaw. We've got to try to put him in a position to be at his best. Try to maximize John Morant now we'll see. The, this summer was about committing to Jaren Jackson Jr. For the long haul and trying to put themselves in a position to kind of retrofit the roster around Jaren Jackson Jr. And they took a wait and see approach on making a long term commitment to John Moran. So take that for what it's worth.

[B]

Just, just so. I think it is worth pointing out though, while you are correct, he does have, including this season, three entire years left on his deal.

[C]

That's true. But when you have a franchise player who has an opportunity to extend and the team doesn't offer it, it's worth noting.

[B]

Sure. I think, I think that fall, I don't remember which recent pot it was on. I would say this John Morant discussion falls right into the Trey on discussion and that.

[C]

Well, it's going to fall into the team we're going to talk about next in a second.

[B]

But yes, I just thought for fans to know, it's worth pointing out.

[C]

Right. One other thing I'm going to mention. Kentavius Caldwell Pope, he shot like 39% or better on threes for five straight years. Won a couple of championships with two different teams in there. And then last year after getting a pretty big contract with Orlando, basically had a dud year where his shooting plunged and his effectiveness plunged.

[B]

He is not, not super stunning though. I like the signing at the time.

[C]

Well, he's also. He's not 36. He's. He's I think about to turn 32.

[B]

Well, what I was going to say was I why I like the signing for Orlando at the time. It is not stunning that a guy who needs to be set up for shots struggle to hit shots with a team where Jalen Suggs, a very important player, pissed a ton of time. And there's not a lot of offensive creation on that Orlando Magic team like that. You know it playing in this system next to John Morant. I would be surprised if we don't. I'm not saying KCP is going to get back to being where he was with Jokic, but I'd be surprised if he's as bad as he was last year.

[C]

Yeah, they might have bought low there. By the way, he already is 32.

[D]

Yep.

[C]

So, okay. All right. The New Orleans Pelicans, our projection for them, it's. It's a rough one. 26 and 36 or 26 and 56.

[D]

How many teams were worse?

[C]

I think, I think just Utah.

[B]

I think total, I think total there were four. But I will tell you in a second.

[D]

Okay, so that, that would be projecting a likely top five pick going to Atlanta next year.

[B]

They would be. They are tied for fourth. So Utah had 19 wins, Washington had 20, Brooklyn had 23 and then Charlotte and New Orleans each had 26. So yes, at best projecting a top five pick on average going from the Pelicans to the Hawks in the Derrick Queen draft night trade.

[C]

Well, so yeah, so I would just say that, you know, Joe Doom or not Joe Dumars. Joe Dumars. Well, Joe Dumars is the president but Joe Dumars gets hired there and then very interestingly brings in Troy Weaver who was obviously the GM in Detroit, but last year spent the year in Washington.

[B]

As with a couple ex Thunder guys and Michael Winger and Will Dawkins.

[C]

Right. And I don't remember if he was titled as an advisor or whatever. But the, the interesting thing about what happens here is Troy Weaver comes in long standing. You know, helped build the Thunders last generation team. You know, he was the guy who was, you know, on the front lines a lot of time of the scouting that helped the Thunder draft those guys. That's why he got the job in Detroit. And they instantaneously make two seemingly highly influenced decisions that Troy Weaver would have. One, as we mentioned, the Dare Queen trade. The draft night trademark where they go for Derek Queen, a DMV guy.

[B]

And Troy Weaver very famously beyond work is a DMV guy.

[C]

Yes. And I believe his son was on, was a manager at Maryland last year. Not that he would listen to his son for that choice, but he probably paid very close attention to the Maryland games.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And then they trade for Jordan Poole who was in Washington last year.

[B]

Well, not only did they trade for Jordan Poole, but they traded for Jordan Poole and Sadiq Bay, who once upon a time I'm pretty sure Troy Weaver drafted with the Pistons.

[C]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

May have proceeded. I'm going to double check that, but I'm pretty certain that that was during while he was with the Pistons.

[C]

So I, so I, I just, I'm. I'm making a bit of an assumption. I'm not trying to like report that, but I think the fact that they went and got two people that Troy Weaver like was pretty close to last year is an indication of Troy Weavers already having a big influence with Joe Dumas. So the thing with them, obviously that.

[B]

Was by the way, just not to interrupt, but Sadiq Bay was part of Troy Weaver's first draft.

[C]

Okay. Dejounte Murray recovering from Achilles. We're not sure when he's gonna be able to return. That's a huge setback. Zion Williamson, he missed a bunch of games at the end of last year. They were tanking. I don't know. But he had a back injury. But he once again wasn't able to finish the season. His contract remains non guaranteed. He's got three years and like 120 million or something left on his contract. But because he hasn't played the games, he remains non guaranteed.

[B]

I think this year is guaranteed in the next two or not just to be clear.

[C]

But at 1.

[B]

No, according to Bobby Sheet, it's guaranteed.

[C]

Maybe it's guaranteed now, but at one point it was not guaranteed.

[D]

There's all kinds of Trigger dates.

[C]

Joe Dumars came out when he got the job and said, we're bringing Zion back. There's no drama with it.

[D]

Well, because there's also like there was a lot of question about whether they'd.

[C]

Shop Zion and he has no value right now, so. Well, it seems he has relatively no value. Just to be clear.

[D]

It's not like you wouldn't be selling high. I do think there are teams that would be willing to take a chance at him.

[B]

Where New Orleans is at, they might as well see if they can turn it around with them.

[C]

That's their only. That's their only hope and certainly their only hope.

[B]

The way they went through the off season because they clearly believe in Jeremiah Fears, who they drafted seventh overall.

[C]

That's the thing. Jeremiah Fears is if you're a Pelicans fan and you're going to be distracted from LSU football for the fall, it's. I think it's to watch Jeremiah Fierce. He was wearing number zero, which. Zero Fears.

[B]

Well, this is the, this is the fascinating thing about where the Pelicans direct. So the draft Zero my Fears, who's the seventh overall pick out of Oklahoma, really young, dynamic point guard. Going to be a really interesting guy to watch. Zero Fears is a pretty cool nickname. He's clearly got a big personality. I hope it works out and he's a really good player. But as we know, the history would tell you, the history of the league would tell you that if you're playing a rookie guard a lot of minutes, probably going to be really rough. And Jeremiah Fears is a really young rookie guard. So a team. Right. So for a team that just traded their unprotected pick in next year's draft. And look, Derek Queen played with Cooper Flag at Mount Verde in Florida last year on a absolutely loaded high school team that had four first round picks this year. But obviously Cooper and then Derek Queen, Asa Newell went to Atlanta and Liam McNeely went to the Hornets like they were an incredible team. He's a really talented player. Maybe he turns into an excellent player. Wouldn't be out of the realm, but they made a huge bet on those two young guys. And as a result, if you look at their team with Trey Murphy coming off a labrum tear surgery, Herb Jones coming off labrum tear surgery, Dejante Murray.

[C]

Coming off Achilles, Derek Queen coming. Derek Queen already had wrist surgery.

[B]

Right? He had wrist surgery. You got Zion with his health issues, obviously at all times, like it's. It's hard to see how this is going to go a Lot better than the the record that the forecast indicator somewhere in that ballpark.

[C]

By the way, they did get in on the Southwest Division big man backup big man race signing Kevon Looney who leaves after a long time.

[D]

But I think that the Pelicans are going to be the worst thing you can be in the NBA and that's a bad team that doesn't benefit from being bad. The worst thing.

[B]

Yeah, it's not great. It's not great.

[C]

Yeah, that is great for Atlanta. That is. Well, that's a great man. Pearl of wisdom.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

They're going to be saying that in Atlanta all year this year go Pelicans. Opponent.

[D]

Being bad. But yeah, it's a really rough spot to be in, man.

[C]

Yeah, this is one of the things that also one of the best ways that you can build up your team and the, you know, the Celtics want to build a championship team this way.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That's the way the, you know, this is the other side of what you're talking about, McMahon. You know, this is what the Thunder are trying to do. This is what the Rockets are trying to do is, you know, have, you know, have somebody else's draft pick so that you're. You don't get punished for winning some game. So if you're Atlanta, you can win.

[B]

Games while having the draft picks of bad teams. That is a cheat code. Obviously. It goes without saying to having a lot of success. As you said, that's how you did.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

That's right. That's right. It's how the Celtics got Jason's hit him in Jalen Brown. As you point out, it's how the Thunder and Rockets are hoping to get talent down the road and it's going to be something to watch all season because that, that Dare Queen trade like let's say the Hawks get a top three or four pick in next year's draft or there's three or four studs in the draft. By all accounts, the AJ DeBancer and Darren Peterson and Nate Event, Cameron Boozer, Carlos's kid. Those, those guys are all supposed to be awesome players. That's just for at the top of my head, they end up with a top three or four pick off that trade and they kept their pick in this year's draft. That's it's going to work out awfully well for the Hawks. So it's going to bear, it's going to be watching and, and again we'll see what happens long term. Like Derek Queen, Jeremiah Fears are very talented players. Like they could end up being really good down the road. It's worth pointing out Troy Weaver drafted virtually all these young guys that are part of the Pistons young core. Now Star Thompson and Kate Cunningham and Jalen Duran and Jaden Ivy and all those guys were right. Or Troy Weaver picks. So he's got a record of drafting players that's pretty good. So maybe those guys will end up being good.

[D]

But your field goal percentage should be pretty good though, when you're drafting top five.

[B]

Well, I'm just not everybody's is. It is worth being fair that he does. He has picked some good players.

[C]

As a longtime executive once said to me, one of the biggest, most important things you can do in the NBA is know how to play aces. Which, you know is like, you know, you get dealt aces in poker.

[B]

The other side of that is he drafted all those good players, or at least interesting young players, and then he was out of a job anyway. So, you know that that would tell you that some other things didn't go as great.

[C]

Rebuilds are hard. Rebuilds always sound good. When's the best time to start a rebuild? I'm trying to compete with McMahon's pearls away.

[B]

A year ago, as Brian likes to say. One of his many repeats. Many times last year.

[D]

Yeah, and here's the problem. The Pelicans be the best time for them to start a rebuild, but they can't.

[B]

Well, and think about it this way too. Maybe they think they did two different regimes. But couple rough trades with the Hawks potentially go back a year ago. Get give up Dejounte Murray for what wound up being Dyson Daniels and ended up being a lower pick than maybe expected. But getting a Newell in this year's draft for the Hawks. Then you turn around to do this trade too. Like point those two trades could end up netting Atlanta a lot of talent.

[C]

Speaking of Atlanta, I was. Did you see Zachary Rishi Got some time defending Luca and had some good moments the other day and also had a bunch of threes in that game for France.

[D]

Luca also scored a lot of points.

[C]

No, I know. I mean, I would not say he's.

[B]

Gonna shut him down.

[C]

Be clear.

[D]

Yeah, I'm saying if he. If it was working that well, he'd probably gotten more time.

[B]

And speaking of Atlanta, hopefully our guy, Bagan Bogdanovich, friend of the pod, feels better soon. Had a rough hamstring injury out for the rest of the tournament for Serbia, obviously. Bogdan was with the Hawks for several years. Got traded Clippers last year, but big boat of the Serbians as They're trying to win Euro basket to lose their captain from their team.

[C]

By the way, it's another reminder. You know, obviously it's a national team injury, but you know, when you have a team of bunch of guys in their 30s like the Clippers do, those guys are going to get hurt. They're already getting hurt. So true. All right, that wraps the Southwest Division. Good job, Everybody. Good job. McMahon getting in from Costa Rica. Thank you to Bontemps. Thank you to Jackson for getting back from Atlanta. We didn't even mention his weekend going to see.

[B]

I did at the beginning. Went down to. Went down to watch cues. Didn't go great.

[C]

No, that's all right. He had a good time. All right. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We're into September now. I mean, I'm not in a hurry, but it won't be long whether I'm. I am or not.

[B]

Media day, four weeks from today.

[C]

I'm not in a hurry and.

[B]

And we will talk some things even sooner.

[C]

And we'll talk to you later this week.

[D]

Pura Vida and adios, amigos.

[B]

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[C]

Monotonous rhythm to the game.

[B]

Has the three pointer ruined basketball?

[D]

And how did we get here? The rise of the three point shot.

[C]

Can be partially traced to an eccentric Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story didn't turn out quite well the way he imagined.

[D]

I decided I wanted to have one of the most organized goodbyes in history.

[C]

30 for 30 podcast presents Chasing Basketball Heaven.

[B]

Available now wherever you get your podcasts.