← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
FULL Breakdown of this Historic 2026 NBA Draft Class + Dybantsa vs. Peterson Debate
00:50:13
Hoop Collective: FULL Breakdown of this Historic 2026 NBA Draft Class + Dybantsa vs. Peterson Debate
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:05]
B
Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing actually a little bit early this week. And we're going to be honest, I'm out of the mix on Thursday, so we're taping this on Wednesday. All right. I'm just going to be honest with you. So whatever went down in the NBA on Thursday and Wednesday night, we ain't going to know about it here. Just being fair. Joining us from New York City, I believe is where Vince Goodwill is.
- [00:28]
A
What up though, Wendy? That's going to be my greeting since I'm from Detroit here in New York. What up though, is what we're going to say.
- [00:36]
B
All right. And I'm very happy to welcome back to the Hoop Collective pod, ESPN college basketball analyst, because we're going to be talking about the college guys today. Just in to Dallas, where he lives from Auburn, which I don't even know who Auburn played last night. That's how I roll. Is King McClure.
- [00:53]
C
What's up, King, my man. How we doing, man? Honor and a privilege. Appreciate you inviting me.
- [00:58]
B
Who did Auburn play last?
- [01:01]
C
Auburn played lsu. And you know when you hear that matchup, it's typically, you know, football matchup that be like, oh my gosh, it's a high level matchup. But basketball, both teams are kind of sort of in the bottom of the sec. Auburn needed that game last night in order to make the tournament. They need probably like a few more wins in order to get in. LSU is just completely out. They're just ready for a rebuild there, tear the whole thing down. So Auburn won and they should be trying to win, get a few more to be able to make the tournament this year.
- [01:32]
B
All right. Well, we also know that you specialize in the Big 12. You played the Big 12 at Baylor, so we're talking about some Big 12 players here. And so our draft analyst at ESPN.com, jeremy Woo, recently came out with a mock draft. I'm not sure which ranking this one is, but anyway, I just thought I would go over something. We're just getting ready for the college basketball season to intensify. King, I'm sure. Where are you going to be during championship week? Is ESPN Dragon Game?
- [01:59]
C
Yes, I'm at the SoCon tournament. And then.
- [02:02]
B
Which is where?
- [02:03]
C
It's in Asheville, North Carolina. Another, another place that can be hard to get into, but I heard it's beautiful out there.
- [02:09]
B
Yes. I once covered a preseason game in Asheville and I flew in in a soup and I flew out in the soup. I Never even saw the mountains, but it seems like it's a nice place. I've heard good things about it, but I was there for, you know, like 17 hours and never saw the sun. Oh, well, okay, then where then?
- [02:27]
C
That's it. I was on a big. I was in the Big 12 tournament the past few years. But this year, you know, Billis and Gameday is going, so I'm not there this year.
- [02:39]
B
All right, well, trust me, that's how I've lived most of my career at ESPN and the Big 12. Did you see this, Vince? They've got. The court is all led. The whole court is led. And they can change the look of the court in one second with an iPad.
- [02:54]
A
I did not see that at all. And that kind of scares me. Like, what are we doing here? What happened to good old fashioned hardwood? You know what I mean?
- [03:02]
B
It's gone. It's gone. And I mean, I want to say that I think. Now, how about this for a sponsorship? The sponsor, I think it's a presenting sponsor. I don't know. Don't hold me to that. Is Windex. Because it's like a, you know, I don't think it's glass. I think it's probably like Plexiglas.
- [03:21]
A
But I don't know. I mean, Wendy, Windex. Maybe you should be searching for some additional sponsorships.
- [03:28]
B
Listen, I'm prepared to. I'm prepared to endorse. I'm available for endorsements.
- [03:32]
A
And don't give the NBA any ideas as far as led courts and stuff like that, because they'll do something wacky like that in.
- [03:39]
B
Well, I don't want to derail this too much, but, you know, the league is, you know, the league is trying to lean into nostalgia right now. And they're bringing back the. The decals for the playoffs and the finals this year. Yes, supposedly. Because, you know, King, they stopped using them like a decade ago. The reason they stopped using them wasn't because they didn't want to, didn't make the court look special. It was because players were wiping out on them because they're giant stickers. And it was causing the court to be slick. It was a player safety issue. It's why they stopped doing it.
- [04:14]
A
So, Wendy, I don't care and the people don't care. You know, like when I say that, I say not to go off on a tangent, like. But Wendy, you gotta make something feel big. And when the NBA Finals looks like a regular season game on a Tuesday night, it doesn't present the feel to a casual fan or even a die Hard that this means something. That's the one thing the NBA is supposed to do better than everybody else. They're supposed to do presentation and pageantry and okay, yeah, it makes a couple hundred thousand dollars to make. They're not, it's not decals. They're putting it on the actual floors. Wendy and as I suggested to a few of the NBA's brass during the Finals, make the two courts during the conference finals, auction the two other courts off and you'll make your money back because someone will have a piece of nostalgia in their rich ass house.
- [05:03]
B
Right? Well, the team that wins would buy the court, I guarantee you that. King. Now, I'm old enough to remember when the NCAA games, the NCAA tournament games were not played on generic courts and they were just played on the courts and they, you know, would put down stickers or whatever. I understand why they're all played on these, you know, the generic, you know, blue courts, blue and you know, black courts or guess they're blue and white. But I wish they were played because, you know, you don't know where the games are. Like, you remember, you know, like, I understand for the Final Four that the branding is a little bit different, but am I at a, I know this is nothing about, we're not evaluating college players here, but do you, do you like the generic courts where you have no idea where the game is or do you think that they should go back to playing on the regular courts wherever they're playing at?
- [05:55]
C
Well, I'm not old enough to remember those days that you had. That's sad, Vince, that you're talking about.
- [06:01]
B
I know Vince remembers it.
- [06:03]
A
Yes, I do.
- [06:04]
C
But I honestly, I don't mind it. I really don't see an issue with what they're doing. And I think the NCAA is just in that, that realm of if you, you know, try to change one thing, all of a sudden everything is going to blow up.
- [06:18]
B
And yeah, I know it's homogenized.
- [06:20]
C
So like, let, let's keep the tournament the way it is. Let's keep it safe. Let's not expand. Let's just keep it where it is. It's been, it's, it's been good. So it's been good. No need for changes.
- [06:30]
B
All right. Along those lines, some players who are going to be standouts in the NCAA tournament who are then going to be carrying their names on draft night. Let's start so with what Jeremy Wu has, and I want to go through some of these players and if you listen to the pod. And King knows this because he's done some draft stuff with me at ESPN in the past. I just don't have bandwidth for college basketball. I talk to scouts about these players. I learn these players when they come into the NBA in summer league and when I watch them play. So I'm reliant on experts like King to help me out. So his Jeremy Woo's number one pick at this point is Darren Peterson out of Kansas. Had a dud last night with the rest of the Jayhawks Tuesday night at Arizona State. This is an interesting player, King. I want to hear what you think about him.
- [07:22]
C
Yeah, well, it's no secret that he's an elite talent, he's an elite shot maker. But there are a lot of questions and a lot of concerns that get brought up. And I'm not going to be of the camp that says this young man doesn't love to play, he doesn't want to play. I'm not going to be that guy because I think that's a very unfair label to put on him. But let's just say hypothetically that what they're saying about these injuries are true. So I think the first question mark comes to play is if. I mean, like, you guys know the best ability in the NBA is availability, right? So if you can barely make it through a 32 game season or 30, however many game season that you play in college, my question is can you make it through 82 plus? You know, so I think that's the first question that we really have to do a deeper dive and none of us know because we're not on the inside. We don't really know what's going on. But I'm sure NBA teams do their research and really find that out. But let's just talk strictly hoops, right? For when he's on there, let's forget about all the extra nonsense and all the fluffy. Here are my concerns with him. We know that he's one of the best shot makers in college basketball that we've seen in a very long time. However, I think that if he's not scoring the basketball, he doesn't make an impact on the overall game. And why do I say that? All right, in his last four games, he's scored 70 points, but it's taken him 70 shots in order to get those 70 points. His efficiency has really fallen as of lately. But also, let's say, all right, you're not scoring the ball in an efficient clip. What else are you doing to help your team? Well, he has 31 assists to 30 turnovers on the whole season. He's not a great facilitator. He doesn't really make everybody else around him better. So my concern is outside of scoring, outside of shot making, what are you doing to impact the game if the ball is not falling?
- [09:26]
B
He's six five wing or I guess he's a combo guard, right? Six five. Good size, Vince. By the way, did you see Bill Self get ejected on Tuesday night? Vince?
- [09:37]
A
No, I didn't.
- [09:38]
B
Bill Self got ejected in the first half of the game and one of the funniest things that I've seen all season, at least all calendar year, he gets ejected and he's walking off the court and he walks out the tunnel. You know, in Tempe, as Arizona's own estate. And as he walks through the tunnel, they, whoever has it pushes the button and they shoot the smoke machine off so that as he's walking down the tunnel, I get that they shoot the smoke machine. Amazing, amazing moment.
- [10:05]
A
Timing. I like that. You know, talking to some people earlier today, the name that came up for me was Devin Booker. Like someone brought up Devin Booker as a pro comp and I'm not gonna do pro comp every player we talk about. But I thought for purposes of this discussion, it was interesting. He, the athleticism doesn't quite jump off the page, but he is an athletic guard, right? Like he can get to where he needs to get to. Like you said, the shot making is elite. The concern I have is twofold. If you are pulling yourself out of games, if you are load managing in college, like King said, how are you going to manage the rigors of an NBA game? If somebody else is making the decision to pull you out of games, then at what point will their influence extend once you get to the pros? Like either you're, you could either be a headache or a health concern and I don't know which one is actually easier. And I understand we're in Wendy and King, we're in the age of load management, right? Like everybody has to protect whatever the long tongue, long term prospects are for you to make as much money and hang around as long as possible, right? But at what point do you just go out there and play? And I'm not saying that he's not doing it. I'm saying this is a question that executives have posed to me who are saying, okay, I want to talk to this kid and see exactly where his head is because his talent is a top level. Now I did talk to an executive this morning who said now when you ask me top level talent, are you saying multiple time all star or change your life? And I said change your life and he said nah, nah. He's a multiple time All Star.
- [11:52]
C
100% spot on spot.
- [11:55]
B
There's a lot of teams tanking that are hoping for change your life guys. Just so you know.
- [12:01]
C
I agree. I don't think he's a guy that is going to change your life. I mean we look up in about 10 or 15 years he's going to average about 20 for his career, 20 plus for his career, multi time all star. But I really don't see a guy that is, you know, literally the change your life type of star that you know Vince just talked about. So I agree. Spot on.
- [12:27]
A
Kelly Rowland changes your life. Wendy, you know what I mean?
- [12:32]
B
Gotcha.
- [12:35]
A
I want to we need that level of prospect. Kelly Rowland changes your life.
- [12:40]
B
I got it.
- [12:41]
D
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- [12:44]
E
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- [14:28]
B
All right at two. Jeremy Wu has AJ DeBonsa or DeBancea. When I met him, he went by Debancea. Is it Debancea or Debansa?
- [14:35]
C
King, man, I've heard so many different reiterations of his name. The latest is Debonza. That's what I heard. I've heard Debance, Debancer. I've heard all types of different formulations of his name, but the latest I've heard is Debonsa.
- [14:51]
B
I think I've talked to you guys or I've talked to the POD listeners about it. I have a relationship with some of the members of the family. I have watched AJ More because I got to meet him and know him a little bit a year ago, a year and a half ago. I want to watch his first college game this year, King at Nebraska. So I'll let you go here, but I actually may be able to comment a little bit more on AJ but go ahead. BYU. By the way, what is he, 6, 9, small fort?
- [15:21]
C
Yeah, I love this kid. Wendy, in my opinion, you asked me earlier, you gonna give away your number one pick? In my opinion, I think this is the number one pick to me, just because I think he has the highest upside, he has the highest potential out of the guys in the top 10 because he is extremely versatile and has a skill set in which I don't think too many other guys in this draft class has and can be able to replicate. So when you look at what he does well, I mean, he's leading the nation in scoring almost at 25 points per game. And in my opinion, he's not shooting the ball well. So he's able to get his buckets in a plethora of ways. And his three point shot, to me, can get can vastly improve. So that's one thing. And I think the thing that people sleep on when you watch him play is his ability to be able to pass. So he's played in 30 games and 33% of those games. So 10 of those games he's had five or more assists. I mean, this young man can actually facilitate. He can put the ball in spots in which you look at a guy his size and you're like, ooh, that's intriguing, right? And his ability to be able to really honestly be the best passer, be the best facilitator on a BYU team that truthfully, in my Opinion doesn't really have a true point guard. Rob Wright is a great scorer, but I don't think Rob Wright is really a point guard. I think he's just a smaller two guard that's looking to score first, pass second. So AJ's had to really embrace that role and step up to be that lead primary ball handler to make plays. And I think he's done a tremendous job of that. So the, the areas of concern, his three point shot, I think it can be a little better. He can improve those numbers and get more attempts because he doesn't take a lot. But the ones he does take, I would like him to see be more efficient and defensively. Right. He has all the tools. We just haven't seen it. Because BYU isn't a program that if, you know, if you go to Houston, you know you're going to guard. Right? BYU is not that program. You go to byu, you know you're going to outscore opponents, you know that you're going to be able to run good sets. Because Kevin Young is a great mastermind. But you never ever use the word defense with the BYU Cougars. So I do think that he can take a jump or he can take a step on the defensive side because he has all the God given abilities to be able to do so.
- [17:43]
A
Wendy, what jumps out to me when I whenever you like you watch a player play, you have to like resist certain temptations, right? And I watched him play like maybe one of his first games and I was like, man, he's moving really fluidly. It don't look like he's trying, but he's got a motor. So you know the name that came up to me and I brought this up to a GM a few days ago and I was like, does he look like Tracy McGrady to you? And he says, absolutely not. He has a much higher motive than Tracy McGrady did at the young age.
- [18:11]
C
Wow.
- [18:12]
A
He's saying from a motor standpoint, not necessarily from skill set and everything else. But he says, yeah, I remember Tracy McGrady, when Tracy first burst onto the scene. AJ has a higher, like, you don't have to ask him to play in that way. Like he's going to take the challenge and everything else. You know, Tracy floated even when he was a pro, but that's what made him so great. You know, all that type of stuff. But his size, like King said, like some of the games that I've seen him play, when he makes pro reads like, not necessarily, oh, this is the pass, that's the assist but you can see where his eyes go. You can see where he wants to take a pass, where he wants to take a play. And to me that's far more important than an assist total or whatever is being able to make those reads. Just because pro defenses are so much different than college defenses when you got how heavy the zone is, how shrunk the floor is in college compared to the pro game. But he has like a smoothness and, and a polish to his game. Wendy, that to like you said, change your life. When I look at him like it just, it looks like he fits the eye test of this guy can change your life.
- [19:17]
B
So yeah, I mean I can't assess. I will tell you he's one of the best mid range shooters for a teenager I've ever seen. I mean I'm watching Jaylen Brown like have dominating success in the league right now hunting mid range shots and you know I've been around long enough to see things, things go out of style and come back into style. And I'm telling you after watching Jaylen Brown dominate the way he has average 30 points a game this year at that mid range, there's going to be guys who go look and I know that the efficiency is not there but if you are going to shoot at the percentages that Jaylen Brown is shooting, the efficiency is there. Well, the efficiency for AJ Debanza is definitely in the mid range. I have watched games where this guy is devastating from the mid range and yes, absolutely, King, you are right. The knock on him is his three point shot isn't, isn't as good as it needs to be to be an elite NBA wing. And I'm sure that that'll be something he continues to work on. But I'll say about him and knowing him and his family a little bit, they've been focused on having an NDA mentality for years now. And look, let's be honest, he went to BYU because he got an enormous nil deal. But part of the reason he selected BYU was that Kevin Young, their coach is an NBA coach. He was an NBA coach for many years. One of the top assistants in the league when he was in Phoenix. Might have been able to get an NBA head coaching job at some point but left the league to go to his alma mater, byu. Their training staff at BYU is an NBA. They hired them from NBA sources. They all have NBA experience. And so this is kind of, it's not exactly what Victor Wembanyama did, but when Victor Wembanyama his last year in Europe before he came over. They set the whole team up. The team is defunct now. It's gone. The team was going to go out of business and they sort of rescued it for a little bit and set the entire team up to maximize Victor's NBA preparedness. And what I mean by that, for example is they went out and got American point guards because they wanted him in some. The point guards who had some NBA experience because they wanted him to practice running NBA style. Pick and roll, for example. And by the way, Victor's so good that the team got to the French league finals anyway, even though it wasn't optimized necessarily for French league play. And obviously BYU has some good players. They have. Who's the other shooter that they've got?
- [21:53]
C
King Richie Saunders who got injured, right?
- [21:56]
B
Yeah, he got injured, but he's going to be an NBA player.
- [21:58]
C
Don't you for sure, 100% he'll play in the league. Yes.
- [22:02]
B
Right. He's a great shooter. So. But this team and this experience for AJ is really been about maximizing his position to thrive when he gets to the NBA. Which it's not like Kansas hasn't churned out a whole bunch of players like Darren Peterson is not having that experience, just to be clear, but was particularly crafted for AJ and that's why I kind of rolled my eyes at his quotes on a podcast. He says I might come back. I mean how many times have we heard that over the years? I do think I will say this King like and Vince, we already are seeing late first round picks. I'm trying to think who the player was who maybe would have gone late first round this year and came back. His brother is in the league. I don't remember now. Anyway, with where nil money is, there are definitely players who are staying in college because where they can get more money than they would get if they were the very back end of the first round or the second round. You know, there's millions more guaranteed. We are not there yet with the top end of the draft.
- [23:15]
A
No, we better not be. I mean Cooper.
- [23:17]
B
Yeah, Cooper flags Cooper Flag's salary this year. His number one pick is 14 million. So I'm sure that number one pick this year will next year will be somewhere in that range. And I don't exactly know what Darren Peterson and DeBonsa got. I'm sorry, DeBancer. Which is what Jackson. Am I saying that right? Jackson, Debanza, they got millions and millions but they didn't get that much money. So while I respect Jackson saying the Cooper Flag said the same thing last year, so it's been a long history of doing it. But, Wendy, millions per game fans, don't worry. If you win the lottery, they're going to come out.
- [23:54]
A
But, Wendy, if you look at it per game standpoint, well, that's true. 82 games versus 30 and no responsibility. And I was going to say you get to be around girls, but he goes to byu. I don't think it really matters. But I will say this.
- [24:11]
B
You heard some of the. I'm not going to say it on this pod because we work for Disney, but you heard some of the things that they say to byu. Yeah.
- [24:18]
A
Yes, yes, I've heard. I've heard.
- [24:22]
B
Don't get me, Wendy. Don't get me.
- [24:24]
A
Yeah.
- [24:26]
B
That they tend to reference. I'll just leave it at that.
- [24:32]
A
The thing that I will say about aj and it makes sense when you talked about his.
- [24:37]
B
And by the way, aj, I'm sorry to interrupt you. AJ has, like, criticized that and like, sort of called out opposing fan bases for their behavior in that regard. Even though I don't believe he's Mormon. I don't think he's Mormon, but go ahead.
- [24:48]
A
I don't care. Look, he is playing the hits. I might come back next year. I'm part of you guys. This is a family. Just play the hits. The one thing I will say is that when I don't know what the question was, and it was like a couple of weeks ago, maybe it was when BYU played Kansas and he said, you know, I don't mind playing. And it was a direct shot, of course, at Peterson, that lets you know that he understands the power of media, the power of branding, the power of messaging and savvy in that way. And I have zero problem with that. If the next star is going to be able to use and leverage that to his advantage, so be it. Even if he comes from byu.
- [25:28]
B
Right.
- [25:29]
A
Just don't put him in Utah. That's a bridge too far for me.
- [25:34]
B
Right. All right. Jeremy Woo with number three. He currently has Cameron Boozer, the forward, forward slash, center out of Duke. This hits me because I remember when he was born, I was covering his father, but that's my own. That's my own problem, King. I've got to deal with that on my own. I've got to deal with my own mortality on my own. But Cam Boozer, you know, again, it's not like going to Duke is a. Is. You know, it's like they haven't had a long history of producing great players, but what is, what is Cameron Boozer done for you this year?
- [26:09]
C
Yeah, he's your safe pick, Wendy and Vince, I mean he's the guy that you just know is going to be a great NBA player. He's just destined for success because when you look at what he's done in college for Duke, arguably he's been the most consistent player in America. I mean he's averaging a double double every single game, every single moment. They're running things through him. He leads Duke in assists, which is a good thing, a positive, but I think it's also a negative, especially when it comes tournament time because I'm a big believer in guards help you get wins when you get to march. And Duke's guards have to be a little bit better in order to help them be able to get wins to win the championship. But Cam Boozer is so good that I think that he will instantly willed them to the final Four. I mean the game against Michigan, I mean that game right there. When we talk about the hype that Michigan got all season and they're well deserving of it because they're a great team. But when you look at Linda Berg, you look at Mares Johnson, you look at Mara, I mean that's two out of three guys who we'll be talking about in this upcoming draft in the first round in the front court and they saying they have the most dominant front court in college basketball. Well, Kambooza said that's fine. That's cool. That's cute, right? I'mma go out there and show you what I do. I'm going to put the team on my back when it matters the most. Jon Shia gave the ball to him and he delivered every single time. You know, I knew he was legit before that game, but when I saw him against Michigan when the lights are the brightest, how do you respond? What do you do? Do you step up? And he did that. I mean his ability to be able to pass and make everybody around him better, he raises the level because he is such a dominant force. We talk about creating advantages in college basketball. One way that you can start offense is you can have a player so dominant that he automatically draws two. So when they automatically draw two every single time they touch the basketball, you instantaneously have that advantage. Cam Boozer is one of those guys, I mean, J.T. todd from Texas Tech is another one. But Cam Boozer is one of those guys that automatically gravitates to towards him. So you always have an advantage on the floor when he's out there.
- [28:11]
A
King, I'm curious. Cause at 6:9, like when you look at him, he doesn't look like a tall 69 or a long 6 9. Are you concerned about his size, like height, having to play the four or because he's such a good, you know, stretch the floor type of guy? Like Carlos was a 18 foot shooter. So clearly he instilled that in his boys. Is that less of a concern because he's a stretch four?
- [28:37]
C
Yeah.
- [28:37]
A
So I, in the NBA, he's a stretch four.
- [28:40]
C
I have two thoughts of this. It's twofold, because I asked a few NBA scouts this when I was doing certain games and we had this debacle because I was under the impression, I'm like, you know what, he's a little small. I don't necessarily love him because at the four spot, I don't think he's agile enough to really be able to consistently play the four. But he's undersized to play the five in the league. So I asked a few scouts and they go, what about Jalen Duran? What about Isaiah Stewart? You know, what are we seeing with Colin Murray? Boyles? Like those guys are so strong, they're able to. Their heart almost outweighs their height in a sense. And I think Cam Boozer is strong enough. I think he's smart enough number one, and I think he has enough skill to be able to be a small ball five on the next level in the NBA. I don't necessarily think he's a four because I don't think he shoots it well enough. I think he has to get better in that area. Like, it's not bad, but it's just not where it needs to be to play the four in the league. But I do think he can be a small ball five and I think his toughness and his IQ can get him over the hump.
- [29:48]
B
It's so interesting to me and again, I'm defaulting to being an old man here. But this could be his father's scouting report. His father was, you know, slightly under size. I mean, you know, he's power forward size, not center size, and was double, double machine. Now his dad wasn't known as a passer. I'm not saying he couldn't throw a good pass, but he wasn't known as a passer, wasn't a playmaker like that. And I, you know, I've seen people say that his shot mechanics aren't perfect. That was something that his dad did. His dad, when he came in the league shot was a side shooter where he you know, shot the ball next to his head and they had to move it over. He obviously became a multi time all star, but was like, you know, and was a second round pick, was a, was a, you know, but it played I think two or maybe three years at Duke. He played multiple years at Duke. So it's just interesting to me, you know, and all. And like again, not great athleticism, you know, Carlos, but go try to get a rebound over him. He put his backside into you and pushed you out of the way. So it's just, it just, I mean obviously it's his son but it's just so interesting to me that you know, that it's, you know, the, the thing is like in the draft where Boozer went, you know, J. Will was in that draft. He went to, I think Mike Dunleavy went in the top five.
- [31:03]
A
Yeah, he went five.
- [31:04]
C
Dunleavy.
- [31:06]
B
Okay. And then Carlos went like 32 or something like that. 31, 32. You know, right at the top of the second round. And Carlos had the best career. I mean obviously J. Will had that unfortunate accident. But you know, again, is this a change your life player though or is this just a guy like, you know, if he's like his father, he's a multi time all star but never the best player on the team.
- [31:26]
C
Yeah, I don't think he's a change your life guy. I think the only one out of the top three that could be a change your life guy possibly is AJ But I think that when you look up Cam, Boozer is going to play 10 to 15 years, make a whole lot of money and he's going to be a winner. He'll win a few championships probably just because I think he's that level of player to add to your team and he cares about the right things and he cares about winning. So I think he'll have an incredible career. But he's definitely not a change your life guy.
- [31:56]
A
He can play next to a star is what I've heard. Like he's not somebody that is going to command so much attention that he's going to be hard to plug and play. Like he's legitimately, from what I understand, a plug and play sort of guy that you don't have a problem with him anywhere. And shockingly, Brian went horsed. Mike Dunleavy went third in the NBA draft and I won't tell you why. I know that because a player I once covered loved making Mike Dunleavy's life miserable because he said that guy went number three.
- [32:26]
B
Mike Dunleavy had a fine career.
- [32:28]
G
He did.
- [32:29]
A
He did. That's no shot at Dunleavy. That's all about the player being honorary.
- [32:33]
D
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- [33:24]
B
All right. No, he went, you know, he went to Duke. What do you want me to say? All right. In wu's picks most recent mock, which, you know, I'm sure he's going well, you know, my picks have changed a little bit, but Caleb Wilson out of North Carolina is number four, 610 power forward center king. I have heard anecdotally, just from scouts who I've started to talk about him, he has been a riser up the boards, if I'm not mistaken.
- [33:47]
C
Yeah, he, he has things that you just can't teach Wendy. He's very kind of, he's very raw in a sense, but his upside and his motor is what I feel like a lot of people are starting to fall in love with. I mean, that game when he matched up against Duke, I mean, he, he looked good, he got to his spots, he was able to rise up, he was able to get to the rim, he was able to defend. I mean, the versatility in which he shows every time he steps on the court, I think that's what stands out. Wendy and Vince. I've seen this man Pick up 94ft on guards. I mean, he can sit down, he can stay in front, he can turn you over, he can really switch one through five because he's an athletic freak. Might be one of the most athletic players that we will see in this first round. Honestly, in the whole draft. I mean, there's so much to like about him, but I think he's just getting started. And I think that right there is why scouts are falling in love with him. Because you can teach a guy how to shoot, you can teach him how to Dribble, how to get to his spots, how to make plays. You can help him work on those things. But what you can't teach is effort. You can't teach a motor, right. We talk about AJ debonca. This guy's motor might be way higher. It turns on a little bit different than AJ's. We talk about his want to play defense. I mean, his want to compete. I mean, this young man has everything that you need in order to have success in the league in terms of the physical attributes and his potential. So I definitely think he's a guy that, I'm not going to say change your life. However, I think he's on that border of if he grows and continues to work and get better, puts his head down and grinds, he could maybe get there. Could possibly get there for sure.
- [35:39]
A
King. I look at his body.
- [35:40]
C
Yeah.
- [35:41]
A
And I look at him weighing 215 and I'm like, is he one of those guys that's just going to be naturally. Not gonna say skinny is the right word, but like, why are we strong and still be able to keep that athleticism and that motor? Or do you think he's a guy that has to put on 15, 20 pounds of grown man muscle to be able to hang with the riggers, or do you wanna keep him lean?
- [36:03]
C
Yeah, I think there's a fine balance. I think you do wanna keep him lean because I think that his frame is one reason why he's so agile on the perimeter and able to and stay in front. But I do think he needs to put on a little bit of weight. Whether that be £10, would that be 15? I feel like it could all look different, but I think a 10, 15 pounds would still allow him to be able to have that same fluidity in which he moves with. So I don't think that'll be too much, but I do think there's a fine balance. You don't want to get him too big because then all of a sudden his athletic trades go down. It's almost like on 2K, right? When you put somebody's. Put somebody's weight up right now, they get slower and everything. So you don't want to do that. But I do think there's a fine balance to where he can put on a little bit of weight and still maintain that same level of explosion. And honestly, the weight that he puts on might even help him a little bit, be able to absorb that contact in the air and be able to diversify his athleticism.
- [36:59]
B
It's interesting you, you mentioned that because some of the comps I've seen have compared him to Chris Bosh. I would say that would be a great player. In talking to Bosh. And again, we. I hope Chris, you're doing okay out there. Cb. I remember talking to him about, you know, he came in as a string bean, four out of Georgia Tech. And the whole thing when he was in Toronto was, you know, you need to add weight. And so he did. And like in year 3 ish, 4 ish, maybe 5 ish, he added like I don't know how many pounds. It was significant weight. And I mean, if you go back and look for footage at that time, you can see that he was much heavier than he played with the Heat. And he said he instantaneously started having knee problems and he lost the weight back and started feeling better. And so some, you know, again, everybody's different. But I'm just telling you the story that Bosch told me. Not everybody's meant to carry, you know, a certain amount of weight. And you know, Victor Wembanyama, you know, Victor Wembanyama, people say, oh, add weight. Well, he may not be meant on that frame to carry, you know, a certain amount of weight. So that's interesting. At number five, Wu has Kingston Flemings out of Houston, the point guard out of Houston, King.
- [38:07]
C
He's talented. He's very talented. And you know, it's interesting because, because the knock on Kingston Flemings coming into the year was, was that he couldn't shoot. But we, we've seen him this season be able to take over games and, and be able to show that he can really knock it down from deep and he's off the dribble, off the catch, it does not matter. He's shown that he's a 40% three point shooter. And the game I want to pinpoint is the game against Texas Tech. You know, the way that he made it look easy and I love the speed. His end to end speed is very, I don't want, I'm not making the comparison, but just imagine Wendy and Vince, John Wall, the way he can get from one end of the floor to the other. Like a Derrick Rose esque, right? The way they can get from one side to the other side of the floor, literally extremely fast. Um, he gets to his spots, he's able to get to his mid range jumper. We talked about AJ and his ability to do that. Kingston loves that. I think when you look at his last four games, his efficiency has gone down primarily due to the fact that, number one, the defense has got a little better and they understood that in order to stop Houston you have to clog the lane. Because when you look at a Cenac who will go in the lottery and you look at a Jojo Tugler, neither one of them space the floor and shoot the three. Well you know Tugler won't even shoot a jumper, he's more around the rim. Cenac is a mid range specialist who can hit sometimes, but some majority of the time it's like eh. So the spacing for the Houston offense has not been the greatest, which is why in the last game against Colorado, Kelvin Sampson changed a few things. He flashed the big, had a lot more cutting to make the offense a little bit more fluid. And I say this to say his efficiency has gone down because when you're playing with bigs who really can't space the floor and the spacing is bad, it makes it harder for Kingston Flemis to be able to do what he does best, get downhill, create advantages, get to his mid range, pull up and then he shoot the three later. So now he's starting to have to rely on his three point jumper because there's no spacing on the floor. I think that changes. Well no doubt that changes on the next level. People space more and you'll play with better players who will be able to and the court's also bigger so that'll change. But I think part of the reason why his efficiency has gone down as of recent is because the Houston offense in terms of spacing just hasn't been there which really hasn't been able to set him up for success.
- [40:32]
A
Do you think that there is a line of separation between the top, I'll say the top guys because we're still in the top five. But do you think there's a line of separation between up until Wilson and then you get here and then you get to Keaton Wagler and Darius Acuff and Burrys out of Arizona who they really like. Do you find all those guys being in the same are we in a different tier draft now?
- [41:01]
C
No, I'm going to say no because one thing that we talked about earlier was are these guys change your life guys or are they just, you know, multiple time all stars on that caliber? And I think that when you go down this list there are a few names who I can throw out and say that he's not a change of life guy but he can have a really successful career and be a potential all star. And one of those guys names is you just mentioned Darius Acuff I mean Acuff is, Acuff is a dude, man. Acuff is high level. You know, I talked to a coach in the SEC and he said we played against every single guard in the sec. We played against some of the top guards in non conference and there's only been one guard that has actually scared me and that's Darius Acuff. Because his ability to be able to score and make any read off of a pick and roll, he can make any pass. You talk about AJ's reads, I mean this guy might be arguably the best passer in the lottery in Darius Akuff leading the SEC in points and assists as a freshman. I mean there is a strong case, and I saw somebody say this other day, there's a strong case that Darius Acuff might be the best guard as far as college stats that has ever played for John Calipard. Let's take that into consideration when it comes to stats.
- [42:25]
B
How dare you not credit Mario Chalmers?
- [42:28]
C
I mean look, when, when it comes to stats, he might have the best season. I'm not saying he's gonna have the best career.
- [42:33]
B
Chalmers play the Kansas. Never mind. I was thinking, nevermind. I mean, Jackson, take it out, take it out, Jackson.
- [42:39]
C
I'm not saying he's going to have the best career because we have no idea how it's going to pan out. But as far as one season under John Calipari, he's arguably having the best season for any guard that's played for John Calipari.
- [42:51]
B
So let me ask you about Keaton Wagler out of Illinois. This is a guy who at the start of the season, I'm not even sure he was in a first round grade. And now I see him on top tens in mocks. And I talked to a veteran, not a college scout, a guy who's like a front office guy who goes out and you know, once his scouts report back and he went to see him probably three, four weeks ago and he's like, I'm not saying he's going in the top five, but he would go in the top five in a lot of drafts I've put together together. So you know, six, five guard out of Kansas ended up at Illinois, not at Kansas. There's actually a number of players native of Kansas in this draft I'll just point out. But anyway, what about Keaton Wagler?
- [43:38]
C
You know, I love the chip that he plays with on his shoulder. I mean those guys are hard to find nowadays. And part of that was because he was overlooked in high school. You know, he's from Kansas, and Kansas didn't even reach out. Honestly, I don't think neither one of the Kansas schools reached out, whether that be Kansas or Kansas State. I heard Kansas State. They tried to tell me that they did. I don't believe that. All right. I think Illinois is the only program. I think it's one of the two
- [44:04]
B
that Brad Underwood at Illinois is turning
- [44:07]
C
out some players now, man, Brad Underwood is not given enough credit for what he is doing and how he's done at Illinois and how he has gotten that program back to where it was back when it was D. Brown, Darren Williams, Bracey Wright. Like I was a young bull, but still, I remember those two. Two of those three, Darren Williams and Bracey Wright, because they're from Dallas. So I looked up to those guys, right? So what I'm saying is Keenan Wagler is so talented because I think he plays with that it factor that, you know what? I was overlooked and I'm going to go prove you wrong. And I think he was. He kind of benefited. Now, you hate to see guys go down with injuries like Kylan Boswell, but when Boswell went down, Wagler stepped up and said, this is my moment. Like, the game at Purdue was absolutely unreal. I mean, he can shoot it off, the bounce. He can really get to his spots. He has a really high iq. Um, there's not a shot on the floor he feels like he can't. He can't take or he can't hit. Um, I love the confidence factor in which he plays with, and I think that's what makes him special. The fact that he was overlooked and the fact that he knows how good he really is and how good he can be. And he goes out there and proves it every single time. I think those types of players make for special guys on the next level.
- [45:22]
A
You know what that sounds like, Wendy? Including, like the funky sort of shot form. Sounds like Tyrese Halliburton, don't it? Six, five, good size. Can get his shot up. Like, that was a concern from the Midwest that a scout posted me. Like, yeah, I think people are saying he can't get his shot up, but I think he can get his shot up. Carries the chip on. Like, all it takes sometimes is one type one player, and then that player becomes the archetype. Tyrese Haliburton is now the new archetype. And if you find somebody that's close to it, it opens the door. And all you had to do was see this guy play, and it's like, oh, yeah, he can go and be a first round pick and now it's a lottery pick and now it's maybe a top five pick. It's amazing how all it takes is one king.
- [46:07]
B
Do you have a favorite guy that we haven't talked about yet that before we go that you, that if, that if the team called you, they would, you would say, hey, pay attention to him.
- [46:15]
C
I have a few, but I'll give you one just for time's sake. Joshua Jefferson from Iowa State. Joshua Jefferson at 69 is NBA ready right now to make an immediate impact. I mean he's had about what, two or three triple doubles on the season. He can really facilitate. He can step out and shoot the three. I mean the improvement he's made from his junior year to this year has been extremely impressive. He's honestly turned himself into a first team all American. He's a little bit older. He's about 22, I want to say 22, 23. Which to me, I'm not necessarily one of those guys that shies away from older players because I think that some of those guys can make an immediate impact and a true impact on a winning team. And I think if somebody were to be able to get this young man in the 20s, like a contender could get him in the 20s, you can plug him in and immediately he's ready to help you go win a championship.
- [47:10]
B
Vince, do you have anybody that you're anybody?
- [47:12]
A
No. It was going to be wild. No, don't do that. We are just fine laying in the weeds. We are licking our wounds from that Duke loss. I can't believe I had to fix my face when he brought up Cam Boozer. I had to fix my face to make sure it stayed stoic. But you know, Duke has given my Michigan fandom a few heartbreaks over the course of my life. As long as there's not Michigan, I grew up. Okay, I'll tell you a quick story about how I became a Michigan fan, okay? And this will strike fear into the heart of Wendy. During a two week span as a six year old going on seven, I saw Desmond Howard do the Heisman, the hello Heisman against Ohio State. And then two weeks after that, Michigan, led by Chris Weber, Jalen Rose, Ray Jackson, Jimmy King, Juwan Howard, the Fab Five took Duke to overtime at Chrysler Arena. I thought Michigan was a black college at that point. I was like, oh, I'm going there.
- [48:13]
B
Well, I have to say that Desmond Howard, you know, who by the way is an Ohioan, I thought Desmond Howard, I thought that was when I watched it live. It was hurtful, but I thought it was cool then. And it's cool, you know, 30 years later. Whatever.
- [48:25]
A
Hello, Heisman. Wendy.
- [48:28]
B
Yes. On the COVID of Sports Illustrated, Right. Wasn't on the COVID Sports Illustrated.
- [48:32]
A
Yes, he did. Yes, he was. And Charles Woodson couldn't do it because another teammate, another Ohioan.
- [48:38]
B
Yeah. What would Michigan do with that Ohio guys? All right. Yeah. Aiden, Aiden Hutchinson wasn't from Ohio and he. We're still, we're still looking our wounds from that. But anyway, King, thank you so much for taking your time and giving us your insight. We look forward to having you back closer to the draft. I wish we could go for some more guys, but I'm out of time. Thank you so much. Thank you, Vince, for giving me your Michigan memories. I hope to have more of them. I can't wait. There's a gap. There seems to be like there was like a 10 or 15 year gap though where I haven't heard any of those memories.
- [49:10]
A
Amnesia, Amnesia. No clue what happened.
- [49:13]
B
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Devon Jackson and Mark for producing. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week. It.
- [49:50]
H
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