Full NBA Trade Deadline Reaction

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: 2026 NBA Trade Deadline Full Reaction
Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Brian Windhorst (C), with ESPN insiders Tim Bontemps (B) and Tim MacMahon (A)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the aftermath of the 2026 NBA trade deadline. Brian Windhorst and his ESPN insider colleagues dissect the biggest moves, unexpected strategies, and the broader implications for the NBA landscape. They break down notable trades (and non-trades), the lottery/tanking race, curious front office decisions, and what it all means heading into a pivotal offseason.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Indiana Pacers–Clippers: The Zubac Trade

(Starts ~01:11)

• The Clippers traded Ivica Zubac to the Pacers in a surprising move.
• Why It Matters: Zubac is seen as a borderline All-Star, a quality replacement for Miles Turner, and is on a reasonable long-term deal.
  • Pacers' Perspective: Zubac fits their positional need and salary structure.
• "It's a really, really... he's an upgrade over Miles Turner." — A (03:54)
• Fit Questions: Concerns about how Zubac’s slower, paint-bound style meshes with the Pacers’ up-tempo system.
  • "Zoo’s molasses getting up and down the court, but the Pacers are flying up and down. It's not necessarily the style I would expect him to play." — B (03:58)

Trade Details — The Pick Protections:

• The deal included a unique 2026 first-round pick (top-4 and 10-30 protected), plus an unprotected 2029 first-rounder for the Clippers.
  • Single year "slot protection" is rare; only pick slots 5-9 convey.
  • Meaning: Pacers keep their pick if it's top-4 or 10+, otherwise Clippers get it.
  • If not conveyed this year, it rolls to an unprotected 2031 pick.
• "If the Pacers decide to...they could get to 10. And the reason why getting to 10 matters is if they get to 10, they guarantee themselves of keeping their pick this year one way or the other." — B (08:37)

Implications for the Pacers:

• They face a pivotal choice: bottom out for a potential cornerstone draft pick, or compete and risk giving up a high lottery pick.
• "I just think that is a short sighted, silly way to go about things. I can't imagine they take that route especially..." — A (09:30)
• Discussion on Indiana’s overall draft strategy and whether their front office demanded the unusual protections.

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2. Lottery Race, Tanking, and "The Flip"

(15:49 and 21:34)

• Windhorst provides a rapid-fire overview of the current lottery standings, highlighting complex protection situations for almost every bottom-feeder.
  • Sacramento, New Orleans, Indiana, Brooklyn, Washington, Utah, Dallas, Memphis, Milwaukee, Portland, Charlotte, Clippers, Chicago, Atlanta.
• New Trend: Many “tanking” teams acted as buyers at the trade deadline, aiming to pivot quickly from building for the future to instant improvement—a process Windhorst dubs “The Flip.”
  • "So many tanking teams as buyers before the trade deadline was a wild twist..." — A (21:34)
• "Sit and Soar" was another term thrown out but not favored over "The Flip."

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3. Chicago Bulls' Puzzling Deadline Moves

(23:05)

• "No plan. There’s no plan for anything at all. This is absolutely unbelievable." — B (25:08)
• Chicago dealt away stable young players for a slew of second round picks, but the insiders skewered the front office for years of aimlessness and missing high-value trades.
  • Bulls crowded their guard rotation, signed Mac McClung to a two-way, leaving their roster lopsided and confusing.
  • "They ended up acquiring two sort of undersized big men, Nick Richards and Gerson Yabasele. But the Bulls are like, what? I actually don't know what the Bulls are doing." — C (23:04)
  • Bontemps describes their strategy as a "treadmill to nowhere."
  • "I do think the Bulls are going to be able to get out of the middle. I think they're going to just swap spots there. Charlotte's going to zoom right past them. They'll be right there in 11th place. So they're getting out of the middle." — A (26:52)

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4. Clippers' Future and Kawhi Leonard’s Status

(29:32)

• With the core torn down—Paul George, Harden, and now Zubac gone—the focus shifts to Kawhi Leonard entering the last year of his deal.
  • "They've never considered a Kawhi trade before...But I would also say the Clippers front office has a pretty extensive track record of making emotionless decisions when the time comes." — A (30:13)
• There’s also an ongoing investigation into Clippers’ salary cap conduct, which could have severe consequences (potentially loss of draft picks).
  • "The sword of Damocles that's hanging over the franchise's head with this investigation into potential salary cap circumvention." — B (31:10)
  • Discussion on how sanctions might be structured and what asset loss could mean for their rebuild.

---

5. Other Major Topics:

a. Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Bucks

(37:29)

• Despite speculation, Giannis stayed put. The consensus among the insiders is that Milwaukee should keep him sidelined to protect both his health and their lottery position in a stacked draft year.
  • "What needs to happen is the Bucks need to sit down with Giannis and say the following. Look, you and we have the same goals here...we need to prioritize seeing our younger players and trying to maximize this draft pick." — B (38:28)
  • Hostility at the idea of returning Giannis to play this season:
    "If he plays again this season, multiple people should be fired on the spot. It'd be incredibly stupid." — A (38:05)
  • Giannis tweets cryptically ("legends don't chase, they attract..."), prompting ribbing from the panel about its movie reference.

b. Ja Morant’s Untradeable Status

(40:03)

• The Grizzlies shopped Ja Morant but found no takers; by panel consensus, his value is presently negative—teams would demand picks to take on his contract.
  • "What I mean by negative is I believe the Grizzlies would have to attach an asset to him." — A (40:25)
• Discussion on his combination of off-court risk, injuries, declining assertiveness, and positional value.
  • "Bottom line is the guy is a small guard who can't shoot and doesn't guard anyone." — B (43:58)

c. Minnesota Timberwolves’ Moves

(48:03)

• Minnesota swung a deal for I.O. Dosunmu (four second rounders) to address their guard rotation following earlier salary-clearing moves.
  • Rob Dillingham trade is described as a "massive whiff" for the Wolves, having cost them key future capital.
  • Mike Conley, after a "buyout boomerang," is expected to return to Minnesota.

d. Knicks Acquire Jose Alvarado

(54:03)

• Alvarado joins New York as a fan-favorite energy guard, important especially with Deuce McBride sidelined by injury.
  • "His ability to...get the crowd revved up. Like I do think classic energy player." — B (54:03)

e. Other Contending Teams' Deadline Strategies

(59:27–60:57)

• Noted that only Oklahoma City among the top ten teams used a first-round pick to acquire help, leveraging their surplus of picks.
  • Boston, Denver, Phoenix all maneuvered out of the tax, sometimes without giving up any significant picks.
  • "The big buyers are the bad teams." — A (61:22)

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Notable/Celebrated Quotes & Moments

• On Chicago’s treadmill:
  "The whole team has been on a treadmill to nowhere the whole time." — B (25:08)
• On the new trade protection:
  "I've only seen one other trade like this...the Kyle Lowry trade...where it was sort of, like, protected in this way." — C (05:47)
• On Ja Morant:
  "For Ja, the party in Memphis is over. Ja is like the last guest, and he just doesn't have a ride out of there." — A (41:19)
• Giannis tweet movie gaffe:
  "It is worth pointing out that the guy does leave in the movie eventually." — B (58:52)
• On Oklahoma City’s advantage:
  "And they've got a million of them." (re: draft picks) — A (59:50)
• On the trade deadline as a whole:
  "It's an interesting trade deadline in that basically all the movement was by bad teams and the teams at the top either ducked the tax..." — B (61:00)
• On Cat playing through a gash:
  "Let it be known the cat played through blood like he was Udonis Haslam." — C (57:45)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:11 – 13:39: Zubac/Pacers/Clippers trade breakdown and pick discussion
• 15:49 – 22:30: The lottery race, tanking teams as buyers, “The Flip” concept
• 23:05 – 28:06: Chicago Bulls deadline moves, criticism of roster direction
• 29:32 – 34:05: Clippers’ future, Kawhi Leonard, and looming investigation
• 37:29 – 39:55: Bucks’ approach with Giannis' injury and tanking implications
• 40:03 – 48:03: Ja Morant’s value collapse, market for him and other guards
• 48:03 – 53:39: Minnesota Timberwolves’ moves, I.O. Dosunmu, Dillingham review
• 54:03 – 55:31: Knicks trade for Jose Alvarado; implications
• 57:07 – 57:51: Karl-Anthony Towns’ injury toughness “blood game”
• 59:27 – 61:22: Contending teams’ strategies, lack of big moves by top seeds

---

Episode Takeaways

• This trade deadline was defined not by the actions of championship contenders, but by aggressive moves made by rebuilding and lottery-bound franchises.
• The future of the Clippers, Pacers, Bulls, and several lottery teams is tied not just to player moves but to the arcane, high-stakes game of draft pick protections and lottery ping-pong balls.
• The panel’s skepticism of certain front office strategies (notably Chicago’s), and their granular exploration of protection mechanisms and asset management is especially insightful for die-hard NBA fans.
• Big-name stars like Kawhi, Giannis, and Ja Morant each face uncertain futures—but for different, often franchise-defining reasons.

---

Closing Notes

• The panel closes with shoutouts to the sports journalism industry and personal stories.
• A rich, technical, at times scathing roundtable; essential listening for fans tracking league trends, team-building philosophy, and the unpredictable march toward the 2026 NBA Draft.

Transcript

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[C]

Hello and welcome to the HOOPP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Thursday evening after the NBA trade deadline. Joining us from New York City is Tim Bontemps.

[B]

Hello, everybody.

[C]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where they saved money and got some first round picks is band McMahon.

[A]

Howdy. Partners might not be plural on the first round picks. We'll see how that plays out with the top 20 protected one. But it was a great day for the Mavericks yesterday. Saved a ton of money. I know everybody loves that little flexibility, some draft capital. And the Bucks and Grizzlies both won, baby. Yes.

[C]

All right, well, we're going to start off with what I think was one of the most fascinating trades of the deadline and certainly of deadline day. And that is, and I know that you might be surprised we're starting with this, but I can't stop thinking about it. Vitia Zubac being traded from the LA Clippers to the Indiana Pacers. Now why would we start with that trade? Well, here's why. So obviously the Clippers are. I was told not to use the word rebuild, but I, I don't know what you want to call it. Whatever you want.

[A]

Retooling for sure.

[C]

They were 17 and 4. James Harden all of a sudden is declared out for personal reasons. You know, he was in Arizona. He's got connections there. I don't know. There's a lot of different reasons. Guys, guys get personal.

[A]

Yeah. Personally. He wanted to get traded.

[C]

Then they came back to LA and James wasn't there. And next thing you know, James Harden was a cav. Okay, so then couple days later, Vitz's Zubots out for personal reasons. Had a good reason though. The birth of his child. Congratulations, you're getting sent to Indiana. That's by the way. That's a tough hand to be dealt.

[A]

It's a tough business.

[C]

You've got a relative newborn. He's getting old. He's getting big and old. But Bond temps. But you know, imagine having to move or leave your wife.

[B]

If I was making $20 million a year, Kay Bond would deal with me moving. I could tell you that right now. She'd probably tell me to move tomorrow if I was making $20 million. Give me that check.

[C]

She would ask your, your duties because.

[B]

She, she would, she would just, she'd go buy herself a Chanel bag and wait till I could come home between games.

[C]

Okay. Anyway, so Zubac was out for good reason, but he gets traded on deadline day. And so the Pacers good piece of business. Zubac has two years and about 40 million left on his contract. Borderline all NBA.

[A]

Hey, I'll say this if you'd have just.

[C]

Now, you know why I don't make predictions.

[A]

This boosts his future all Star chances. Going west to east all NBA is a stretch, but hey, he's a solid starting center.

[C]

Let's go back to that podcast and talk about how I was on the Clippers that night. Oh my God.

[A]

Listen, if you take that 17 and 4 stretch, you look brilliant.

[C]

Yeah. So this is the replacement for Miles Turner. And I gotta say on that just little piece of business, it's a quality replacement for Miles Turner. Talking about, you know, he doesn't stretch the floor, but we're talking about one of the best defensive bigs in the league and he's on a good contract.

[A]

And, and showed with James Harden that he can be a really productive pick and roll partner despite not being, you know, necessarily a vertical threat, but big time screener.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Good field. I mean it's a really, really like he, he's an upgrade over Miles Turner.

[B]

I like Subatz a lot. I definitely think he's a better player than Miles Turner. I am curious about his fit with the way the Pacers play because of his lack of shooting and, and look like zoo molasses going up and down the court. But like the paces are flying up and down. It's, it's not necessarily the style I would expect him to play. But look, we know Indiana's not going to go in the tax. He's got a very good deal making around $20 million the next couple of years. There's a, that's a big part of why they paid this very hefty price to get him is that he fit within their books. That's why, you know, we kept talking about Daniel Gafford as an option. Right. Same reason, like he is a player that fits both from a positional need and a contractual standpoint. They weren't going to keep Ben Mather. And so I get why they moved on from him, but this draft pick situation. Okay, let's get to that is fascinating.

[C]

So, so when I heard the trade live on tv. I was like, okay, what's. Really. Sham's reported just one side of it. And our phones, I'm sure all of our phones blew up. Like, what's the other side of it? What's the other side of it? And so Sham's like, literally read on tv, live on air. He got the. The. The info.

[B]

Well, and for background, that after the. After the Clippers had seemingly made him available, the expectation was it was going to need to be at least two firsts to get him out of the Clippers. That was what people in the league were expecting.

[C]

Right. So, okay, so then. So I wasn't really thrilled with the Clippers trading him, as you can imagine. And I said, so? And then there's two. First I was like, okay, well, they got their price. And then I heard the details, and this is what we're building up to. So. So 2029, unprotected first. Okay, unprotected firsts are tough. Unprotected firsts for players that are sub All Stars are tougher, but okay, it happens. Second pick, it's protected. Oh, okay, that makes sense. What year? 2026.

[A]

They're bad this year.

[C]

That's an interesting. I almost thought that Shams misread it. Cause he was literally doing it live off of his phone. He goes, 2029. I go, okay, in 2026. I was like, no, it can't be. Can't be their. Their pick. 2026. I mean, they've got the. The number three pick right now. It can't be their pick. And he goes, top four, protected. And I was like, oh, and 10 through 30. So basically, the Clippers will get the pick this year if the pick falls between 5 and 9. If it's 1 through 4 or 10 or above, the Pacers keep it. I've only seen one other trade like this, which was like, in 2008 or 9, Kyle Lowry getting traded to Toronto is when he first went to Toronto, I think, from Houston, where it was sort of like, protected in this way.

[B]

Yeah, it was a little bit later than that, but that was the protection. It ended up being the Steven Adams pick.

[C]

Okay, so, Bontemps, you were all over this immediately and your thoughts on this aspect of it?

[B]

Well, I mean, it's a fascinating situation because you've got the Pacers, who, you know, as McMahon is hinted at several times this year, have a coach in Rick Carlisle, who, you know is. I don't know if he's. I don't remember if he's their President or not, but he's obviously heavily involved in their leadership with their basketball operation with Kevin Pritchard and with Chad Buchanan, their longtime front office. And they have been very clearly trying to take advantage of this gap year and, and be as bad as possible and take advantage of what's a loaded draft. So, so they right now are sitting in third place in the reverse lottery standings as we're about to go through. There are a metric ton of teams that are going to be trying to lose every game possible over the next couple of months. So I find the Pacer situation right now to be fascinating because they have a very clear choice in front of them. One of those choices is to try to remain in the worst couple spots in the league and try to have roughly a 50% chance of either losing their pick at all at five or staying in the top four and getting Darren Peterson, AJ Debance, that Cameron Boozer, Caleb Wilson insert, you know, the other stud in this draft.

[A]

Yeah, whoever they have as those top.

[B]

Three, whoever they want to get right with the fourth pick. The other option they have, which I think is a viable option is to try to get to 10. Now you sit here and say, well the pacers are in third. How are they going to get to 10? Well, let me just tell you, there's a lot of God awful teams and there's a lot of God awful teams are going to be trying to lose every game. You've got the Wizards, you've got the Nets, you got the Jazz, you've got, you've got the Pelicans who remain awful. You've got the Kings who are awful, you've got the Bulls, who we're going to get to in a bit. Who now are going to try to lose. You've got the Mavericks, you've got the Grizzlies, you've got the Clippers themselves who aren't going to be very good. And that's before we see what happens with Kawhi Leonard.

[C]

Yeah, the Clippers are not tanking, but they're not going to be flying.

[B]

They're not going to be good. So I think there's a real chance that if the, if the Pacers decide to, they could get to 10. And the reason why getting to 10 matters is if they get to 10 in the, in the lottery standings, they guarantee themselves of keeping their pick this year one way or the other. And just last year we saw the mavericks go from 11 to 1 and get Cooper flag the year before. Two years before we saw the Hawks go from 10 to 1 and I'm just listen, I'm not saying they're going to do that. I've asked a lot of people in the league about this the last couple hours and some people think it makes sense to try to go to 10. So some people make think it makes sense to stay at the top, but I don't think it's a certain answer either way. And it's why this is fascinating because typically you wouldn't have a chance to get from 3 to 10 but if they just try to win with Zubots and Andrew Nemhardt and Aaron Neeseman to Pascal Siakam, I think they'll get to 10 because there's going to be wins to be had over the next couple of months.

[A]

I just think that is a short sighted silly way to go about things. I can't imagine they take that route especially the they played the Jazz the other night, they had a hard fought and I mean they fought to lose a hard fought loss in a game which they started. Jerris Walker, Jay Huff, Ben Shepard, Cam Jones and Johnny Furfy.

[B]

That's the. Well, two things. One, that's before they made this trade and two, what you're saying is fair. But let me ask you a question. Why is the pick protected at 10b and beyond? Why would you bother, why would you bother to pick?

[C]

Because you could just say why would they do that?

[B]

Why would they do that?

[A]

Because again the Clippers insist on that protection. One through four is obviously the Pacers did the Clippers insist on the 10 protection? I don't know.

[C]

By the way, if it doesn't did we say this? If it doesn't convey, if it's not 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 it.

[B]

Goes it comes to 20, 31 first unprotected.

[A]

But look man, I just, it would be so short sighted and I just can't imagine they would do this. If you're the Pacers to you're over halfway through being awful, an awful season in a gap year without Tyrese Halliburton. You have the exact number. If you're, if you're a bottom three team you've got a 52.1% chance of being top four.

[C]

Let me go over the percentages real quick here. So right now let's say the lottery was today and their third worst record 52% chance of being top four AKA keeping their pick 48%. So it's slightly better than a coin toss to keep their pick correct. If they were to fall to 10th, okay. They would have an 11% chance of getting into the top four and 100% chance of keeping their pick.

[B]

And also just, just the other part of this is, and like I understand your position, McMahon, I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer, but to your point, I would love to know who put this backstop in on the 10th pick. Was it the Pacers or was it the Clippers? Because that's an interesting thing to know. To your point. And the other part of it to me is if you're the Pacers and you have this team that's trying to win now, like you've got Pascal Siakam, you've got Vita Zubac, you've got Tyrese, like they're trying to win next year, would you rather give up the pick this year in theory or would you rather get. Whether it's. Would you rather guarantee yourself getting one more high level player to go with this group for the next few years and have them part of this team?

[A]

The short answer, and it's not a direct answer, but the short answer is I would rather do everything possible to take advantage of an unfortunate situation where you have a chance to add a bona fide star alongside Tyrese Halliburton, Pascal Siakaminau, Evitza, Zubots. Now I will say this. You know, as you said, it was well known that the Pacers were in the hunt for pre agency big man. Right. You mentioned Gafford. They were also they had extended conversations with the Utah Jazz about Walker Kessler and that would have been a classic. Like you know, the, the, the, the flip type of move. Kessler's out the rest of the season. They did not, they did offer. My understanding is they did offer multiple picks for Kessler. It was not this, the picks weren't this sweet.

[C]

Imagine the Jazz giving up those, the half of their, their, their picks top eight protected. Imagine the jazz saying four through eight, we get it eight through nine through 30.

[A]

The yeah and I, I don't know exactly what the picks were. I don't even know ex of an offer there was or wasn't. My understanding is it wasn't these, it wasn't this exact pick. It wasn't quite this attractive. But it does reinforce the Jazz's desire to keep Walker Kessler despite the fact that they are far, far, far apart on what they perceive his value being as next deal. Also the other thing is Zubots is under contract, a favorable contract and Kessler wants to get paid big this summer.

[B]

Which is why I would guess that this same deal was not on the table for Walker Kessler because I would assume Pacers would not be as comfortable with paying Walker Kessler the number it might take to get him. Whereas they know they're going to be able to afford getting a Vita Zubac on this deal. Which is why I would guess it wasn't the exact same offer. If I had to guess, yeah, it.

[A]

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You need a scorecard to keep track of the lottery? We're gonna give it to you real quick here. So, okay, the number one pick is right now is Sacramento. They've lost 10 straight games. They have.

[A]

And they're playing their young guys in crunch time to develop them.

[C]

Good decision. All right, number two right now is New Orleans. Which pick goes to Atlanta via pick swap?

[A]

So certainly not tanking. Just. They stink.

[C]

Unprotected pick swap. So that's okay. So you know that.

[A]

No. Unprotected pick.

[C]

Unprotected pick.

[A]

Right. The better of them.

[C]

Sorry, I apologize.

[A]

And the Bucks get the other one.

[C]

I apologize. Unprotected pick, number three, Indiana. And we just went over it. One through four, it's theirs. Five through nine is Clippers 10 or above, it's theirs. Number four, Brooklyn. Nice and clean with the asterisks. It was originally traded to Indiana or to Houston. They got it back, but now it's clean. Brooklyn gets to pick no matter where they are. Number five, or number, I should say tied for number four, Washington, who just traded for Anthony Davis and recently traded for Trae Young. Washington, currently with 13 wins and tied for fourth. Their pick is top eight, protected. If it falls nine or higher, it goes to the Knicks, which is why I wonder if we're going to see Anthony Davis play in red, white and blue this year.

[A]

What about d' Angelo Russell, another former All Star that he's traded for?

[C]

Correct. Do you believe D' Angelo Russell will be picking up that $6 million player option?

[A]

The Mavericks certainly did. That's why he was in the deal.

[C]

All right, sixth, Utah, as we've heard, 16 wins, three games back of. Or three games ahead, whatever. Back ahead of Washington. Depends on you. Look, Utah's pick, top eight, protected. Otherwise, it goes to the Thunder if it's nine or above. We have talked about that a lot. Seven, Dallas, 19 wins, three games back of Utah. They're trying to go up. They're trying to climb. I don't know how aggressive they're going to be. McMahon. It is their pick cleanly.

[A]

And as we've gone over many times, the only pick that they have of their own, clean until 2031.

[C]

Number eight with 20 wins. Memphis, who has traded two of their three best players in the last, what, seven months, including Jaren Jackson this week.

[A]

And fought off some serious intrigue about Ja.

[C]

Number. Yeah, number nine, Milwaukee. 20 wins. Tied with Memphis. Actually, I guess they're tied for eight. We will see what happens with Giannis now because one of the things that Rukane was reporting that came out of Milwaukee today when Giannis wasn't traded Was that he'd like to play. The other day, Doc Rivers was on Countdown before our day of game on Sunday. I asked him and he said yaz is going to play.

[A]

Hey, you know what? I just heard Celebration in Memphis. I just heard celebration in Dallas. I just heard celebration out of Salt Lake City. That sounds like a great plan for those teams.

[C]

They can't wait. They're 4 and 4, 5. I think they won Wednesday, so I think they're 5 and 14 without him, and they're 500 when he plays. Okay, 11th and I should point or 10th, I should say point out. Unfortunately for Portland, who was on a nice winning streak, they've lost six games in a row. They came out east, and they've gotten knocked back to earth. They are intent. Their pick, by the way, is lottery protected to the Bulls right now. It wouldn't be conveying. So, you know, just thought as we talk about the Bulls a little later in the last. In this misery over the last few weeks, that pick has gone from, you know, maybe conveying to the Bulls to not conveying. But you should keep an eye on it. All right, Charlotte, they've won seven in a row. They're on their way up. Traded for Kobe, White. They seem to be trying to at least make the play in, so maybe it's not an issue.

[A]

But I think they're a playoff team this year.

[C]

Okay, well, their pick is free and clear. They own it, haven't traded it. Congrats to them. 12th pick, la clippers.

[A]

Ooh, boy. No, it's. Wait, who's that going to.

[C]

Okay, well, 23 wins right now. Okay. And that is tied for. Or that is tied for 12. Okay. Portland, Charlotte and the Clippers all have 23 wins. And if the Clippers finished the worst out of Those, they'd be ninth and have a 10th. They'd be 10th. They'd have an 11% chance of going to the top four. If Portland or if Milwaukee gets Giannis back and starts to play 500 basketball again. It's not all the realm of possibility that you could see the Clippers, if they don't continue to win, which I would say is going to be hard, they're going to potentially hand a top 10 pick over to the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[A]

Ooh, ooh.

[C]

Chicago at 13. Chicago's got a chance at two picks up here. But this, this pick is clean and clear. And they have it.

[A]

And they finally, after all these years of.

[C]

We will get there again.

[A]

39.

[C]

Literally one minute.

[A]

Oh, go, go.

[C]

14Th pick right now is The Atlanta Hawks, which goes unprotected to the Spurs. So as of right now, and like, you know, we'll see what happens with Atlanta, but as of right now, if the lottery was tonight, the Thunder would have a 7% chance of being in the top 4, the spurs would have a 2% chance of being in the top four, and goodness knows where that Clippers pick might be in a couple of months. Okay, so just keep in mind, if you can, all of that shenanigans and how much things are going to be fascinating, especially on lottery night themselves.

[A]

And so many tanking teams as buyers before the trade deadline was a wild twist, but go on.

[C]

By the way, I've had some people give me some ideas for what I'm calling the flip, which is what Utah, Brooklyn and Washington are trying to do. Maybe Dallas to a certain extent too, they'll bring back Kyrie, but you know, get as low of, you know, as good of a pick as possible, but also prepare to immediately get better.

[A]

Dallas for sure is trying to. Yeah.

[C]

Yes. Our friend at ESPN Radio, he does his morning show on espn, Evan Cohen, he is calling this the trade ahead line for Washington. And, you know, Utah making trade aheads. It's not bad. But I need just, I need, I need to. The concept of trying to go from a lottery team that's tanking to a team that could, like make the playoffs. I need.

[A]

How about. I just came up with one. How about sit and soar?

[C]

No, I like the flip.

[A]

And then you soar up the.

[C]

I don't like the flip, but I'm going with it. All right.

[A]

Okay. Well, then you asked for.

[C]

I don't even know how many trades the Chicago Bulls.

[A]

You can sit and do something else, right?

[C]

I don't even know how many trades the Chicago Bulls made in the last three days. I know that they acquired nine second round picks and then at one point they had 10 guards on their roster. They ended up acquiring two sort of undersized big men, Nick Richards and Gerson Yabasele. But the Bulls are like, what? I actually don't know what the Bulls are doing. Tim Bontemps, can you explain to me what the Bulls just did at the trade deadline?

[B]

No, I, I am, I am so arturish. Kanish had a press for today and for the second year in a row at the trade deadline, said, we don't want to be in the middle. This guy five years ago said, yeah, you don't want to be aiming for 10th place in the standings. That's not what you're trying to do. He then traded for Nick Vucevich has spent the last five years sitting in the play in tournament, literally in the middle of the standings. Outside of the glorious six weeks where the Lonzo ball team played above its head and had a pretty good record in the east and then plummeted and won one playoff game in the first round. It is embarrassing the situation that Chicago bulls are in. 18 months ago they had Kobe, White and IU on their roster on cheap deals, good players on cheap deals. The kind of players that can get you maybe multiple first round picks, at least one first round pick, real players or real assets that you can build around going forward and maybe not be in the middle. What did the Bulls do? They didn't trade them. They kept them on the roster until the very end of their contracts before the trade deadline. And what did they trade them for? A handful of second round picks when second round picks have never been less useful in the entire history of the NBA. And the Bulls traded for a bushel full of picks and have a team that makes no sense to in theory start to lose now when they're 10th place in the Eastern Conference and probably can't get higher than 10th place in the lottery. And now our tourist is getting up here saying, oh, we have a plan. We're trying to. We're, we're sick of being in the middle. We want to actually try to build something. You don't want to build anything. There's no plan. There's no plan for anything at all. This is absolutely unbelievable. Nikola Vucevic has been on the roster for five years, got this insane extension three years ago, and the whole time team has been on a treadmill to nowhere the whole time. It's absolutely unbelievable. The Bulls, by the way, were in position to make the trade the Atlanta Hawks did and get this pick that might be the number one pick in the draft. Did the Bulls make that trade? No. I'd love to hear from Arturis why the hell they didn't make that trade. Where was the plan then?

[C]

They drafted one spot ahead of Atlanta.

[B]

When they sure did. And they drafted Noah Senge, who might be a good player but hurt his shoulder earlier this year. He's out for the season. Like the idea that this team has some grand plan to get out of the position they're in is lunacy to me. And it's just, it's unbelievable that they have chosen now as a time to make all these trades. By the way, they had all these expiring contracts that could have Taken on money for assets. They didn't even do that. They just swapped out expiring contracts for expiring contracts the last couple days. Like, the one guy they took on was Rob Dillingham, who it's. I mean, speaking of Minnesota. Yes. Minnesota got Ayatosumu for four seconds. You know, they could have maybe had Ayatosumu and Kobe White for the price that the Bulls did it for at the way things are going. So I, look, I just, it's just insane that we're sitting here with our tourists at this point in the cycle and we're having the. Like, I just literally went and looked it up a year ago. I looked up Jamal's story from February 6 a year ago after they moved on from Sack Levine. There's more to come. We're committed to being a sustainable, competitive team. We're not okay with being in the middle. Curating a team that competes at the high level, it could compete for a championship has been our goal today. What did Arturo say? We're, quote, not satisfied with being in the middle. Quote, being in the middle is not what we want to do. We've seen for the past, We've seen that for the past four years and we want to change that. I mean, what are we doing here?

[A]

Relax. Hey, I'm looking at the ESPN standings. We have, we have in three little sections for each conference. There's the top six in a line, there's planned in a line, and then there's the bottom five. And I do think the Bulls are going to be able to get out of the middle. I think they're going to just swap spots there. Charlotte's going to zoom right past them. They'll be right there in 11th place. So they're getting out of the middle.

[B]

They sure are. They sure are.

[C]

This is this my, I think one of my favorite moments of the last few days in the Bulls. So they, they traded for Anthony Simons, guard. They traded for Colin Sexton, another combo guard, traded for Jaden Ivy, combo guard, traded for Rob Dillingham, point guard, combo guard. Just a tiny combo guard. It's my favorite. And then they signed Mac McClung to a two way contract.

[A]

Least the layup lines are going to be cool.

[B]

No question about that.

[A]

Get there for lamps entertaining part of the game.

[C]

McClung is like having a really good season. He's not, finally, he's not dunking in the dunk contest. I mean, he's obviously a tremendous dunker, but, you know, whatever. Congrats to him. For his 11 dunk contest titles. They Mac McClung, he's like averaging 28 points or something for the Windy City Bulls. He finally gets the call. Mack get on the Kennedy, come down to United center. You are getting that two way contract. He's like God, another. This is going to be great. He's, he's riding down there his phone, he's, there's, he's ninth or tenth on the, on the depth chart.

[A]

No, he's not. He's starting at power forward. It sounds like to me.

[B]

Hey, I just, it's just insane.

[A]

Listen, we can, we can hammer away at the Bulls buffoonery and, and, but that's an evergreen topic. Did they do any three way trades out in the last day or two? Because they're, I'll say they do always finish just a spot ahead of sack when they do the three way t trades with the Kings. But anyways, we zipped. We, we went straight in tank a thon and there's a lot of meat there. But we, Wendy, we did, we zipped right past a fascinating predicament situation that the Clippers are in. Like the Clippers and I, I credit their front office for saying, you know what, yes, we owe our pick this year in an unprotected swap next year both to the Oklahoma City Thunder. But that's a sunken cost and basically, you know, they made like they made moves that are making them worse right away but clearly they think it's, there's going to be long term benefit whether they give up the first pick or the 12th pick. The trade's done. But what does all this maneuvering mean for the guy who everything has revolved around with the Clippers for the last several years? You know, Kawhi Leonard this summer is going to be going into the last year of his deal with a $50 million salary with a roster that's been kind of stripped down around. I mean not kind of like Paul George has been gone, James Harden gone, Zubots, the next best player gone. What are we thinking there?

[C]

Well, that certainly was something that my phone was asking from league league folks when they did the Zubac trade, would they entertain trading Kawhi Leonard? Now that's a very complicated trade and since they basically just decided to trade Harden in Zubotch in the last few days, I can see why we didn't see any of that. But he's having a very good year and as you said, has one year left. If their goal is to, you know, truly acquire as many assets as they can I think, because especially his contract is short, that you wouldn't be taking. I think it's something that, you know, teams will consider as the summer approaches.

[A]

Yeah, I would be curious to see what kind of market there would be. Honestly, I, I'd be a little bit surprised if they don't at least get a feel for that. They've never considered a Kawhi trade before. Obviously they got him and, and he's been the silent face of that franchise since he arrived. Everything's revolved around him. But I would also say the Clippers front office has a pretty extensive track record of making emotionless decisions when, when the time comes.

[B]

Well, and I, I've done some preliminary just asking of people like, hey, would you have interest in Kawhi? And it's always been met with some trepidation about like what that would look like and what his interest level would be in being outside of Los Angeles. And look, the other thing we haven't talked about with the Clippers that we have to mention is the sword of Damocles that's hanging over the franchise's head with this investigation into potential salary cap circumvention.

[A]

And the what that's hanging over their head?

[B]

Just, it, just relax. It just means that they're gonna, going to have the potential to get in trouble in the coming weeks. And what is that punishment potential?

[C]

Some guy named Dan Cleese.

[A]

I've never heard that word before.

[C]

Damocles St. Bonaventure that he took. Mythology.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You didn't learn about it at North Texas. I'll send you some literature. And the Clippers have to. The subject of the Clippers potentially facing ramifications from that investigation is hanging over the whole franchise at the moment. And you know, when this last came up with the Joe Smith situation 25 years ago, there were suspensions for the owner and the lead executive and there were five first round picks lost. So if something is found in this investigation, what's the punishment going to be like that hangs over all this stuff that's going on with the team.

[C]

I don't know what's going to happen. I will just say that. And I'm not even sure that the Joe Smith thing 25 years ago is something that will be referred. I know it's, it's the easy default because it's the only, you know, comparable thing. Joe Smith's contract was nullified, but he wasn't punished. I mean his contract was nullified but like he wasn't suspended. Just, I'm just, I'm not saying that, Wayne. I don't know what's going on in this investigation. I'm just saying, like, you know, just for the record.

[B]

Well, I just meant, I wasn't even saying Kawhi was getting in trouble, per se, but I just meant with the picks and everything else, like.

[C]

Yeah, well, that's the other thing.

[B]

Like, no one knows what it's going to be if anything happens.

[C]

If the Clippers get caught and, like, found guilty, like, if they indeed find, you know, incriminating evidence and the. And they punish them with draft picks, would they take the picks that they own from another team?

[B]

What if they lose? What if they lose the fifth pick in the draft this year?

[C]

Well, what. What if they only take their picks and they don't take picks that were acquired from another team?

[A]

Yeah, and if they only take their picks, then it's going to be a while before the Clippers could even, you know, benefit from being bad. And they're still in a situation where while obviously they made especially the Zubots trade, like the hardened trade. Okay, he didn't request a trade, whatever. Obviously there was some pressure there. So they, you know, they did what they had to do there and got a recent All Star guard in return. Whatever. But the Zubots trade is something that makes them significantly worse right now, despite the fact that they owe their pick and they're in a swap next year. But at the same time, like, if they, if they had their own pick, then I think you would, you would say, hey, of course they should try to trade Kawhi this summer. Of course they should try to get some value, and part of the value would be bottoming out and benefiting from their own pick. But they're not in that situation. And, you know, after they get done paying off, after they get done paying off okc, they've got to pay off Philly, right? They. They go picking a swap to Philly in 28 and 29. So it's still going to be, you know, a traditional rebuild is not an option for the Clippers for a while.

[C]

All right, well, to be continued. That. That whole trade was super fascinating.

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[C]

All right, so those are some trades that actually went. That actually went down. You talk about some trades that didn't go down. So Giannis didn't get traded. The Bucks, we mentioned their draft scenario. I will wait and see what happens. You know, Giannis is injured. He is on. You know, he is not on the inactive list because of any reason. He's on the inactive list. He's on the injury list. Really? And he's had multiple calf injuries over the last two seasons. I think four. It is not unreasonable for the Bucs to protect him regardless of their if.

[A]

He plays again this season, multiple people should be fired on the spot. It'd be incredibly stupid.

[C]

Again, what if he says he wants to play?

[A]

If he plays a season, multiple people should be fired on the spot.

[C]

I would just say that. I know that Giannis announced that he was out four to six weeks. Doc Rivers said there was no timetable and the Bucs did not put out a formal injury report. They just put him as on the injury list.

[B]

Buck, what needs to happen? What needs to happen is the Bucks need to sit down with Giannis and say the following. Look, you and we have the same goals here in that you have said publicly you want to be here. If we have a championship level team, the best chance for us to potentially have a championship level team with you on the team is to maximize our draft pick in this year's draft, which could be as high as the second pick in a loaded draft. You have had four lower leg injuries in the past 18 months. You just played through one a month ago. We understand you want to play. The season is not going anywhere. You need to prioritize your health for the next two months and get yourself healthy and ready for next season. And we need to prioritize seeing our younger players and trying to maximize this draft pick. And then we can sit down in the summer and look at the situation and have a real discussion about whether you really want to be here, whether you really want to be elsewhere, and what the best situation is for everybody involved. But what's unquestionably true is the best situation for everybody involved is for you to get healthy and for us to get our draft pick as healthy. As it can be. That's the conversation that has to happen.

[C]

I think they should just record that and just play it for them.

[B]

I mean, that's. That's what has to happen.

[A]

Only bad things can come out of Giannis returning this year. Either they screw up their lottery positioning, or he suffers a. An injury that's going to damage his value. But nothing good can come out of it.

[C]

But he will be fulfilled playing basketball. That's a good point.

[A]

Cool. Well, I tell you what, kissing Giannis's butt over the last several years sure has put him in a great spot.

[C]

All right. Another trade that did not happen was Ja Morant. There was some rumors out there about what it was going to take, and really, I just think right now, John Morant's value is just incredibly low, and I'm not so sure it was. Well, I'm not going to make a speculation.

[A]

It's negative. It's negative. It just is.

[C]

And what do you mean by negative? What does that mean?

[A]

What I mean by negative is I believe the Grizzlies would have to attach an asset to him. They'd have to attach at least a pick to him. Trae Young's value was neutral. Expirings, you know, we went in the season and early in the season discussion, there was the three guards, right? It was Trey who ended up getting traded for expiring and whatever you want to call Kisper to, you know, okay, young player there was Ja, who they could not generate any sort of a market for. And I don't know. I don't know that teams told the Grizzlies will be interested if you attach a pick. I just know, like, I talked to a team that they were linked to, and they said they'd have to attach assets for us to even think about it.

[C]

I heard that as well.

[A]

Lamelo is the other one. And to Lamelo's credit, Lamelo is playing very good basketball. And at this point, I don't even think it's about restoring his trade value.

[B]

And.

[A]

But I think it's more about, hey, Charlotte's got something good going on. And, like, there's no reason to be looking to move on from him at this point. That's a credit to him, and it's a credit to Charles Lee and the group they got in Charlotte. But for Ja, the party in Memphis is over. Ja is like the last guest, and he just doesn't have a ride out of there. But for either he's going to be sleeping on your couch, or you got to get him A ride and they didn't get him a ride. So he's going to be on your couch farting and burping for a while.

[C]

Sounds like McMahon's junior year.

[A]

Which one?

[C]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know the way out of that. I think if Ja's contract was a year shorter, he's got two years in 87 on it. If his contract was a year shorter. I mean, you know, the funny thing is like, as I've been talking about Ja for the last couple of weeks, month, whatever, the analysts who are here at ESPN who I work with, you know, who just think very highly of ja's game, guys like Iman Shumpert, Danny Green, Kendrick, Perkins, they just are stunned that there is no value for ja. Like Shump was like when I said on tv, like I didn't think he had much value. Shump was like, he couldn't believe it. He just, he thought I was just talking about somebody else. And even Perk, I mean Perk, you know, understands. But like he's just can't believe how far he's fallen because there, you know, he was a player that other players were just in awe of and they respected his fearlessness, you know, which is.

[A]

Diminished whether that's due to motivation or whether that's due to, you know, he's alluded several times to he gets hurt a lot when he attacks and the refs aren't protecting him. But you know, he, he's not available a lot for a wide variety of reasons. He gets hurt a lot and he does stuff off the court from time to time that means he can't play and that, that there's a lot of baggage and a lot of risk.

[C]

This year he got suspended for, you know, being at odds with his coach.

[A]

One of the questions about Ja around the league was is his athleticism declining? Because, you know, you look at all like the rim attacking numbers and all that stuff, they've just plummeted or, you know, was he kind of quiet? Had he quiet quit on? Was he just a lack of motivation? I will say the two games he played before he got hurt again, you know, he came back and in London he looked pretty athletic in that one played. I don't remember who they're playing. Played the next game in Memphis and had like two or three ridiculous chase down blocks, one which he hurt his elbow on. He's still that sort of athlete. But like that question's been answered, but again, it's blinking. You might miss it because he's out Again, yeah.

[B]

I mean, the bottom line is the guy is a small guard who can't shoot and doesn't guard anyone. And like, the way the league has gone, he. That is a hard archetype to square and you factor in everything else on top of it and, yeah, it's not a surprise. There's not a lot of value in him around the league. Like, there was a lot of talk about Miami having interest. I don't think Miami really had any interest. I don't think there was any interest. I mean, I'll just go to Shams's tweet. There were no, what do you say, Serious offers. There were no formal offers there.

[A]

There was a lot of intrigue about.

[B]

Let me read the actual tweet. The actual tweet.

[A]

His talent was intriguing.

[B]

John Morant remain with the Grizzlies passed today's trade deadline. Multiple teams were intrigued by Morant's talent, but none were willing to make a serious offer. Sources said, like, that's. I mean, we spent the last month going, who are the jaw teams? And it was like, maybe Sacramento will do it to save some money. Like, there wasn't. There wasn't really anybody.

[A]

And look, this was not a lack of effort on the Grizzlies part, on Zach Kliman's part. And he got. He got a great price for Desmond Bain. Boom did it. He got a great price for Jaren Jackson Jr. Boom did it. He tried to get a great price for Ja, and I believe at the end, he would have taken a bag of peanuts for him, but there's not a taker.

[C]

So now. So now come on back, Ja. Everything's going to.

[A]

Well, I don't. I.

[C]

Look, the answer is he rebuilds his value by being great.

[B]

I know there's what you said before, McMahon, it's LaMelo Ball. Like, there's a path to him looking like a good NBA player again, which. Look, a year ago, I thought at the beginning of season, Lamelo was the guy. I would take the chance out of those three guys for a variety of reasons. But there were plenty of people around the league who were like, I don't want to deal with the metal ball.

[A]

I don't want to have him.

[B]

I don't think he's that good.

[A]

And, well, I kept hearing not a. Not a serious player.

[B]

So unserious, whatever the reason, right there was not. His value was low. And he's played really well. The Hornets have played really well. And he has a much different standing. Even if it's not like, you know he's not like become prime Derek Rose and the odds people in the league. But like he, he has played really well, has driven winning and his, his standing in the league is much better as a result of that. And if John Morant locks in and plays well for the Grizzlies for some period of time, his value will change. If it remains what it's been with him going in out of the lineup and getting hurt and all the stuff that's gone on, then it will stay the same and at some point it will just be a matter of when this partnership comes to an end.

[A]

Yeah, and there's other complications. Number one, you don't want him to play well for the rest of the season because you are trying to tank for the rest of the season to get another star who can replace him as the face of the franchise. Because I like Cedric Coward. He's not a face of the franchise. I like Zach Hedy, he's not a face of the franchise. And there's obvious major durability issues there. So Ja taking a while to make sure this elbow gets right. Makes sense for the Grizzlies. And then the other thing, you know, they smooch jaws behind for years and we've, we've talked about all that. But then when you go from just hey, how can we support you and like making excuses and enabling and all that stuff for years and then you try to come down hard at discipline and he knows you don't want them. He knows you tried to dump him. There's already friction with the coach. Like the relationships with the front office clearly are complicated, to say the least. You know he's going to, if he's still on that roster next season, it's going to be a very difficult situation if he can't just swallow his pride and be a pro, be as professional as possible with the intent of getting the hell out of there as soon as possible. Because the only way he can get out of there at ASAP is to be a pro and to be productive.

[C]

Oh, Minnesota. Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Because the other day when Minnesota dumped salary, we were like, what are they going to do? Especially at the guard position. They take I.O. in there, they use four second round picks to as the freight. You know, I.O. is having a very good year for the bulls. He's averaging 15 points, which I think is a career high. He's shooting 45% from three. And you know, he does fit somewhat next to Ant. I mean, you know, the player that they had in that role was Nikhil Alexander, Walker, who they, you know, they just sort of drew the line on their spending with what they've. With what they owe the rest of their roster.

[A]

They chose Nas Reed over him. And you know, I've had people around the league suggest to me that that in hindsight was a poor choice.

[C]

Well, they've now paid. They're now going to have to pay to. To. To keep them. Now IO is extension eligible, I believe. Can he be. Can he sign now? I think he might be able to sign now, but I think Bobby said that. But he's unrestricted. That's one of the reasons why the Bulls traded him.

[B]

Yeah. And in a vacuum, getting four seconds for IO for the Bulls as an expiring deal was good business. Like, but it's, you know, it just goes to the rest of it. We're like, where was this two years ago? And he could have like really reset this thing and actually rebuilt. But look, I get, I get what Minnesota did here to a degree. I would still say that they just saved a ton of money on Mike Conley and they could have used that salary slot to get something else that helped them too. And yes, they're going to get Mike Conley back. But okay, you saved a bunch of money and did this first round pick swap to get rid of Mike Conley to bring him back, and then you give up four seconds when you don't have a lot of assets in general to get IO and are they going to pay IO to stay on the team when they're already bumping up against the luxury tax line with like eight players? I don't know. Maybe.

[A]

The other thing that they did was they dumped Rob Dillingham, which Tim Connolly has done a phenomenal job in Minnesota, did a great job in Denver. He's a great executive. The Rob Dillingham decision that they made to jump into the lottery to give up. Help me out. Was it a 2030 pick and a 2031 swap? I think the swaps top one, top one protected the picks unprotected to San Antonio. That was a major swing and a massive whiff. Dillingham was a complete bust for them. I mean, average four points and two assists per game and fell out of the rotation. And it's not just that he. It's one thing to bust on your own pick. It's another thing to bust when you give up the future draft capital they did, which is the future draft capital they had and knowing that's your big swing because. And then, look, he's tried to get creative. He made a big play for Kevin Durant. Hard to do that when you don't have draft capital. Same thing with Giannis this year. Like, I mean I'm not saying if you have that depict there the spurs and the swap. I'm not saying that they're. That they would have KD or that they'd have Giannis. But you at least they don't really have chances to make that kind of. Clearly they need a co star alongside Ant. They don't have the ammo to do that in large part because they took the big swing on Rob Dillingham. That was just a massive whiff.

[C]

The Wolves are in a spot where how they finish the season is going to have significant consequences on what the team's going to look like next year. So they were under the gun a little bit here to make a deal to acquire some help. They did. So by the way, Mike Conley already did his buyout. He's free and we'll see where he ends up. I wish I could tell you how much where he's going.

[B]

He's going to end up back in Minnesota. I mean because he got traded twice. He can resign with the Wolves and I'll be very surprised if Mike Conley's not back in Minnesota.

[A]

Well, I also haven't talked to Conley after the last time he's traded. Minnesota family guy does not enjoy the mid season relocation.

[B]

Yeah, it makes a lot of it the way it was sequenced out. It makes a lot of sense for him to go back there and look like I do like IO in a vacuum for the Wolves.

[C]

I do. It was another guard the Bulls traded for briefly, by the way. We didn't count that one.

[B]

But yes, in Iowa will help them. I think though it goes back to the same question. We've seen the Wolves shed a lot of money over the past couple of weeks and. Or a couple of days, I should say. And are they going to really pay the number to get IO resigned this summer? I think that's an open question. And if they don't, they're, you know, they're going to be that much more hamstrung with how to build out their.

[C]

Roster, by the way. So this is a loophole that's being exploited that I don't think has been exploited before. You know, we had a rash in the 2000s of players getting traded and getting bought out and returning to their teams and so they the league put a stop to it. It said if you got traded you couldn't resign with your team for a year. But if you could trade it again, then you could. I mean, you know, we're not talking about a, you know, a guy who's going to, you know, be a massive difference maker. No offense to Mike, he's great guy, but it's kind of a loophole they're jumping through there. I just thought I would, you know.

[B]

Yeah, it's an interesting, it's an interesting. I mean, it's, I mean it's, it's a little quirk. I don't think, you know, so many guys are going to get traded twice.

[A]

Like that, but unfortunately it's probably not going to, you know, might be a guy toward the end of his career and under those circumstances.

[C]

So the Knicks made what I thought was an interesting move today. And then there's sort of the other end of it. You reported on this Bon Thames live on television. They picked up a, a guard of who's very big fan favorite, but they had a setback as well.

[B]

Yeah, got Jose Alvarado, New York native from the Pelicans. And then on top of it, Deuce McBride. It's a key reserve off the bench for them. Kind of miss, miss some time with a core muscle injury. Unclear when he'll be back. Probably gonna miss a good chunk of time. Made a little more sense. I mean, they've had interest in Jose for a while, but it had a little. Made a little more sense why they wound up giving up a couple seconds to get them in the deal today, given they're not gonna be without dues for a while. I will be interested to see if, when Deuce gets back, Alvarado plays over Tyler Kolek, who has had a nice emergence this year as a second year guard and frankly, I think might be better than Jose. But it, it'll be a fun story having him back in New York. And I do think, you know, his ability to push the tempo to play, you know, press full court, kind of get some steals, get the crowd revved up. Like I do think classic energy player. Yes, I do think for the next couple of months, especially with Deuce injured, he will be a, he will be a boost. But. And he also replaced Gershon Yabaselli in the rotation. Another guy who wound up in Chicago, interestingly, I believe is turning down his player option for next season to get a chance to play and have a shot to play with the Bulls. And I mean, who knows, maybe he'll end up going back to Europe if he doesn't have something in the NBA next season. But. But yeah, for, for a Knicks team that was looking to do something with Abicelli for a while. Tournament Alvarado overall makes sense for where the Knicks are at.

[C]

You know, the Knicks feel pretty good about where they are, especially with the eight game win streak and they had a. A high energy victory at the Garden over the Nuggets on Wednesday night. Putting some. Playing some pretty good De Jokic is not a hundred percent right now obviously, but still got to give credit where it's due. The Knicks played some good defense on him and especially Mitch Robinson who he.

[B]

Played 45 minutes and was pretty good in the game. So I think, I think Jokic is going to be.

[C]

You got to think about jokic. He was one of 13 on three pointers and that's a very Jokic thing to do because a lot of guys when they got to be one of ten would be like. But Jokic, he does not care.

[B]

He almost made a crazy shot. He almost made a crazy shot to win the game. Rimmed out of three that would have won it. But yeah, no, look, the Knicks have turned things around. Eight in a row. They got a huge game Friday night in Detroit against the, against the. Against the Pistons battle the top two teams in the Eastern Conference season. Think it'll be the first game Kevin Herder will played for Detroit. So it'll be interesting to see his role there with the Pistons. But yeah, it, you know, Knicks, a lot of talk about the Knicks over the last several weeks about where they going to make a big splash, where they're going to get, you know, be really be in the honest mix or whatever. And were they going to trade Cat? Right. Which I only thought they were ever going to do any honest trade.

[C]

Hey, how about Cat, you know, has been accused of not being the toughest guy at times. How about Cat like got a huge gap for. He banged heads with Spencer Jones from the Nuggets. By the way, won the fight. Spencer Jones got knocked out.

[A]

Yeah, I saw. I think Kat was hiding a little ketchup packet there.

[C]

Is that what you think? Because he tweeted out the photo of the gash on his Instagram. He wanted to make sure everybody. But it was ugly. Was ugly. But Spencer Jones got a concussion. Like.

[A]

Nah, Cat was.

[C]

They stopped the fight for him.

[A]

That's as much blood as I've seen in the NBA game in a little bit.

[C]

It was a nasty cut, but he gets stitched up, then comes back out and then fouled out. But he had 24 and 12.

[A]

Listen, hey, you know, of Course, he fat out. He, you know, he only had one eye. Couldn't see that well.

[C]

I'm just saying, like, you know, let it be known the cat played through blood like he was Udonis Haslam.

[B]

Is that a good stretch label?

[A]

Are we just. We're just gonna zip past Giannis just like, to be continued in the summer with more memes and, you know, passive aggressiveness and disingenuousness.

[B]

And the only thing I will say about the honest thing is by now people have probably seen this video of. Yeah, the tweet that Giannis put out, which if for some reason you didn't see it, I'll just. I'll just read it for you. So Giannis put out this tweet that said, legends don't chase, they attract with a hundred emoji and a sunglasses face emoji. And it was the I'm not bleeping leaving clip. And as somebody in the league said to me this afternoon, they said, well, it should be stated that in the video, in the movie, the guy left. Oh, it might be like, Giannis probably is not aware of that, I would guess.

[A]

I haven't seen it. I gotta. Now I gotta figure out time to watch it.

[C]

I'd love to watch that movie tonight.

[A]

It is.

[B]

It is worth pointing out that the guy does leave in the movie eventually. So.

[A]

Hey, you know what? You know who else eventually left after a long, drawn out saga that I'm really looking forward to discussing? Jonathan Kaminga. Free. Yeah, it's like he escaped from Alcatraz. Jonathan Kaminga, Boy. Oh. Oh, my God. Do you think he paid his own airfare just to get out of there early and get to Atlanta, man.

[C]

Well, listen, I wish him the best of luck in Atlanta. I got to actually analyze what his role is going to be there. I haven't quite figured it out.

[B]

It should be said, too. It's worth pointing out that of the 10 best teams in the league by record, so, the Thunder, Pistons, the Spurs, the Knicks, the Celtics, the Nuggets, the Rockets, the Wolves, the Lakers and the Suns, only one team, the Thunder, used a first round pick to get better.

[A]

And they've got a million of them.

[B]

And they've got a million of them. And I believe what Phoenix got out of the tax, Denver got out of the tax. Boston, after a lot of gymnastics, got out of the tax without ever giving up a first round pick this year.

[C]

I will say this, the mavericks getting off 100. I don't know, how much was it? 70 million? What was it, McMahon?

[A]

Dude, it's like just next year, just between AD Jayden Hardy and Daniel Russell, it's $70 million. And like literally when you include their luxury tax bill, they about slashed their payroll in half.

[C]

All right, so that was good. But how about the Boston Celtics who at one point had a half a bill on the books for this year, half a billion $500 million in tax and salary and got out of the tax and are in third place or second place, I don't even know where.

[B]

Without even giving up a pick. It's pretty impressive.

[C]

Is that right? They never give up a pick.

[B]

Not a first round. I mean, I think maybe a second, but no first round picks for sure.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

It's pretty, pretty impressive.

[A]

Hey, hey. The Mavericks got two first round picks, kind of sort of.

[B]

You're right. I was just going to say it's just an interesting trade deadline in that basically all the movement was by bad teams and the teams at the top either duck the tax. I mean, Minnesota got better with IO, but they also saved a bunch of money. You know, the Lakers got Luke Kennard, like he's a fine, you know, bench player.

[A]

No, but the big buyers are the bad teams.

[B]

Yes. Like all the teams at the top are essentially the same. Again, Nick Vucevich, like backup center.

[C]

The Cavs were the most aggressive contender and it was because they've been the most underachieving. One of the most underachieving contenders. I guess the Clippers were an underachieving contender too, but they were selling. So it's not quite the same.

[B]

I mean, I would. Yeah, I mean, but yeah, that's the. Of the teams in the top 10, you know, several of them got out of the tax and most of them didn't get better. It's just an interesting state of where this trade deadline was. It made. It made kind of a weird beak where all these bad teams stocked up on players who are there for next season, not this season.

[C]

All right, well, that'll do it. Thank you very much to Devon, Mark Tucker and our man Jackson, who announced that he'd rather go 0 of 30 than go O of 9. Because if you went 0 of 9, that means you stopped shooting.

[A]

I've played pickup basketball, Jackson. I can confirm that that is a.

[C]

Syracuse attitude if I've ever.

[B]

Yeah, thank you. I will also say real quick before we go, because I meant to say this four and I forgot. Sorry. When he's tired, I'm also tired.

[C]

By the way, your voice is. I was worried your voice wasn't going to hold out. You need to Take the weekend.

[B]

That's my hope. But I just wanted to shout out Brian Keefe, the coach of the Wizards, who before tonight's game gave kudos to the Wizards beat writers from the Washington Post that have covered the team the past several years. Because my former paper is run by feckless cowards and they made some very bad decisions, in my opinion this week, as an opinion of many other people, to decimate the newsroom and in part dismantle the Post legendary sports section in newspaper history, arguably at the Washington Post sports section, which I was very honored to be a member of for a short time. And I just thought that was cool of Brian Keefe to do that. And in a week where it's been pretty rough for people who are at the Post either now or in the past, that was a nice little moment from him. And it would have been nice, I would say, for the Washington Post to have local sports coverage on Wednesday afternoon when after a few hours, after they say their sports department is irrelevant, the franchise trades for one of the 75 best players in the history of the sport. Might have been a good idea to cover that. But what do I know? I'm just a. Just a guy, man.

[C]

I wasn't good enough to get hired at the Washington Post like Bontes.

[B]

No.

[A]

But Cleveland Plain Dealer. I tell you what, Washington Post is great. Dallas Morning News back when I was there, boys, for when those APSC Triple Crowns just on an annual basis. So I'll give you the. Arguably the best.

[B]

The DMN was a hell of a.

[A]

Is a.

[B]

Is a hell of a track record, too, I'll give you that.

[C]

McMahon relitigating that. All right. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bon Temps. Thank you for watching Listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.

[A]

Adios Migos.