← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
FULL Trade Deadline Reaction
01:14:40
Hoop Collective: FULL Trade Deadline Reaction, What Is The Future Of The Suns???
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- [00:01]
Tim Bontemps
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- [00:19]
Brian Windhorst
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- [00:28]
Zach Lowe
Hello and welcome to the HOOPP Collective podcast presented by State Farm. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday evening at the conclusion of the NBA trade deadline. Joining us from TD Garden in Boston, where he's moved all over this week, wherein he also watched the champs get beat by the Anthony Davis less Mavericks here tonight, Tim Bontemps dominating performance in.
- [00:53]
Tim Bontemps
The Mavs, who won by seven, but really were up by 27 most of the second half. And now we're headed home to an interesting scene where McMahon is.
- [01:01]
Bam McMahon
Hello, everybody.
- [01:02]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he's just back from a week and a half on the road, was in Oklahoma City for the deadline and is now in Dallas, where all eyes are about to turn is Bam McMahon.
- [01:13]
Bam McMahon
Howdy, partners. I hear there's a big party planned out there, Victory Plaza. I'm not sure if I'm invited or not, but.
- [01:21]
Tim Bontemps
Well, I think you're invited. I just don't know how the reception will be if you go.
- [01:26]
Bam McMahon
No, I'd make it out of there because somehow it's my fault that all my reporting was accurate and I was still shocked that Luka Doncic got traded.
- [01:35]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, well, I hope cooler heads prevail in all this situation. All right, that's the Mavericks and Luca. We'll talk about that a little later. The prevailing thing about the trade deadline day, there was a number of deals. We'll get to them was what didn't happen, which was Kevin Durant stayed put and he was not happy that he was put into trade talks. And I think it's unpredictable what will happen for the next few months because it's the nature of the sport. But I think right now it's reasonable to forecast that Durant will be breaking up with the Suns in the summer. He didn't break up with them today, but it doesn't look good for the long term forecast because he was really frustrated. And I spent a long time today on the phone with people involved with this situation. People from Miami, people from Golden State, people from Phoenix, other people. And I would just say that the biggest thing Kevin Durant was upset about, I think was not Knowing he was involved in trade talks and whoever started, wherever at the stage of Kevin Durant's career, he's at, I believe. Boy, I'm getting into danger zone talking about what he wants. So I'm gonna step back generically. A star player of his level, when he gets to this is likes to be involved in trade talks. He likes to, you know, and that was an issue. And so the thing about it was is that the Suns ended up not getting anything. They made one trade today and it was a salary dump trade, sending Yusef Nurkic to Charlotte. They didn't improve the roster and meanwhile, you know, Miami and Golden State made other moves. So the Suns have had some wins on trend in transaction windows recently. They haven't had wins, too many wins on the court, but they've won some transaction windows. They were a big loser in this transaction window. Bond temps, and there's no other way to put it. And life in the second apron is hard.
- [03:28]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, life in the second apron is hard, but there's lots of other teams that are in the second apron that are doing a lot better than the Suns, and that's because the Suns are paying the price for their sins. For the past couple of years since Batish be bought the team and has sold off just about every asset they had and in the course of doing so has built a team that's not very good and has nowhere to go. And I think the Suns, if it was me talking to the Suns, if they called me and asked for my opinion, I would spend the next four months figuring out the best options that I could get. I guess five months till early June that I could get for Devin Booker and Kevin Durant, and I would be trading them both this off season and I would be burning this thing to the ground and starting it over, preferably getting my picks back from the Houston Rockets who've been waiting there to get these guys, one of them at least, and actually build a team. Because there is no way that the Phoenix Suns can turn this into a team that can actually be competitive in the Western Conference. This team is a borderline playing team right now. Kevin Durant is only getting older. They have no real. They have. You know, Brian Dunn's a nice role player. Also, Iguidoro is a nice role player. This, this is not a group that is going to get better over the next couple years. This is not a group that could compete with the Oklahoma City Thunder, that could compete with the Houston Rockets, that could compete with the Memphis Grizzlies, that Can frankly compete with the LA Clippers. Like they're just not as good as these teams and they have to get out of jail free cards. One in particular in Devin Booker, one to a lesser extent, and Kevin Durant. And they should because of the way this week went. I think it's a bit of a blessing for him to not get Jimmy Butler to not go down this road of trying to extend this thing even further. And if they spend the next four or five months really figuring out what is the absolute maximum we can get, get our picks back in this draft, get a high level lottery pick in this draft and start over, they can actually start to build something because they spent two years going willy nilly trying to build this thing on the fly. It's left them with a team that has nowhere to go, no flexibility, no ability to get better. And they now just have to face the reality of the situation they're in. They have to stop digging and they have to start climbing. And frankly, the only way they can do that, it's not just by trading Kevin Durant. They have to trade both guys and they have to start over.
- [06:00]
Zach Lowe
I just have to say Devin Booker, I don't think that they're going to trade Devin Booker. Devin Booker wants to be there.
- [06:07]
Tim Bontemps
They should trade Devin Booker. They should trade him.
- [06:10]
Zach Lowe
Devin Booker wants to be there his whole career.
- [06:12]
Tim Bontemps
It doesn't. I don't care. I don't care.
- [06:15]
Bam McMahon
So did, so did Damien. Damon Little was 10 toes down in Portland. KG was going to spend his whole career in Minnesota. And then after the fact said, man, I waited way too long. And their only way out is to go through a real rebuilding process because they are the most expensive, mediocre team that we've ever seen. Right? And yes, Microwave Matt Ishbia has cooked a mediocre meal. That's just what's happened here. Everything's boom, boom, now, now, now, now, now. I'm, I'm, I'm the owner. I'm. I won a national championship at Michigan State. I know everything I, I know how to run a team. I'm here. Boom. I'm getting kd, Bradley Beal. Everything's got to be right now, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. And it's been a very quick descent into mediocrity on a team that's got its soul sucked out of it. And you've got three max players on that roster. You've alienated two of them without being able to move either. I mean, what do you do? And like Booker, look, it's admirable the loyalty, the desire to have a Kobe like run that one franchise thing is awesome. When you're on a good team. It's misery when you're in mediocrity and the time's going to come. Their way out of this thing is to do a real rebuild to take the route. The Houston Rockets. Who The Houston Rockets had a few absolutely awful years after James Harden miserable years. And it was part of the plan. You got to go through that, but you have to have your picks to do it and you got to get a bunch of other picks in the process. And it's. That part of it is. Would be the easiest part. It's actually the smartest thing to do. Would also be the easiest thing to do. It's called the Rockets call them back because they've called you about Booker umpteen times and say, hey, we're willing to, to listen, but it ain't just gonna be about our picks. We want a whole bunch of stuff.
- [08:21]
Tim Bontemps
Well, I want to be clear about something. I, I do admire Devin Booker's desire to want to be in Phoenix. And you could say that the Phoenix Suns don't want to trade Devin Booker. What I'm telling you is they need to figure out the only way out is through. To quote Robert Frost, the only thing they can do is Robert Frost the poet. I'm, I'm teaching you. We're going back into the thesaurus today. Not the, not the dictionary. The only way out for the sun of the source.
- [08:49]
Bam McMahon
I thought there were synonyms and stuff.
- [08:51]
Tim Bontemps
Listen, the only way for the Suns to dig out of this mess is to actually start digging out of it. And the Houston Rockets are the prime example of this. Right? The Houston Rockets. Yeah. They had Russell Westbrook that they got rid of for some stuff, some other ancillary stuff. This whole Rockets thing started because they traded James Harden for a ton of stuff. Because if they just keep Devin Booker and they sell off a 36 year old Kevin Durant for some stuff and they have Devin Booker sitting there, they're not going to go anywhere. They're just going to continue to spin their wheels and be stuck in this position. That's why I'm saying to me, it's a blessing that they didn't get Jimmy Butler, they didn't get any of these guys and they need to sit there and figure out that the only way for them to actually get anywhere is, is to tear this thing down and start over. And it'd be the best thing for Devin Booker. Be the best thing for the Suns and it's the only way that this thing is ever going to go anywhere.
- [09:47]
Zach Lowe
Well, that, that analysis is fine by both of you. I'm just telling you Devin Booker that I know wants to be a Phoenix sun for his whole career.
- [09:56]
Tim Bontemps
Well, it's not. Devin Booker doesn't have a no trade clause. Bradley Beal does. That's part of the problem they have.
- [10:01]
Bam McMahon
Luka Doncic wanted to be a Dallas Maverick his whole career. And I'm not saying that the Mavericks made the right call, but I'm just saying like, unless you're Kyle Kuzma, if you don't have no trade clause, you can't veto a deal.
- [10:13]
Zach Lowe
All right, well, anyway, we're not going to do circular. The Suns had a bad, had a bad deadline and they put so much work into trading Bradley Beal. I don't think they were ever close. I think there was, I think there was a couple of teams that didn't hang up the phone immediately and they tried a little bit and then they just got to the point where they're like, we can well look.
- [10:32]
Tim Bontemps
And let's also, let's also point out the Suns made a ridiculous trade trading this 2031 first round pick for three bad first round picks and then by the way, traded a 2026 first round pick today to get rid of Yusuf Nurkic and locked up half the drafts. Again, like they just, there just has not been a coherent vision and plan from the beginning.
- [10:52]
Zach Lowe
The thing about the, if they had a Butler trade in place right where swapping the 31 pick out for the three first made it happen, then I would get it. But they made it on spec. You know, that's, you know, when they.
- [11:09]
Bam McMahon
Made the deal it was like, okay, what do they have lined up? And then when the answer is nothing, you're like, really? That 2031 pick is of significant value because, because people are forecasting this gloom and doom if they don't blow it up and rebuild.
- [11:25]
Zach Lowe
I talked to one team today that didn't hang up the phone immediately on Beal and I, you know, now that everything's done, you get these debriefs and I was like, well, tell me what your thought process. There they go. You know, we looked at it because we thought it some made some sense, but the pick offering was just so poor. We just, we just was, we just said to him, because is there one, is there a way you could improve this? And they really couldn't. And you know, I was, without revealing who I was talking to, I I'm not sure if the Suns had even traded Ryan Dunn, that they could have gotten a package together to get someone to take Bradley Beal, and that's.
- [12:07]
Tim Bontemps
Bradley's got the worst contract in the league.
- [12:09]
Zach Lowe
So they went through that whole thing. They reached the dead end there. And really what you had was you had teams hedging on each other. You had. Golden State was hedging because they were trying to get Durant out of one side of their mouth and trying to get Butler out of the other side of their mouth, and they were hedging both. And then for a while, they were trying to get Butler to get Durant. You had, you had Miami, who liked what Golden State was doing, but Golden State was only going so fast because they were trying to do a Durant deal. And then they were also talking to Phoenix, thinking that maybe they could move Beal and they could get stuff there. So they're, they're sort of hedging on both deals. And then you had Phoenix, who liked the idea of getting Jimmy Butler and, you know, stuff from the Warriors. Jimmy Butler plus is what I've been calling it. Yeah, but they also thought there was a possibility that they could move Beal and they could have Butler and Durant. So everybody was hedging and so somebody was going to lose, and the loser ended up being the Suns in that.
- [13:10]
Bam McMahon
And, and, and now, now you're stuck with, with Kevin Durant, who is disgruntled and rightfully so. You know, a superstar. That cow like it. That's the whole, like, the whole reason the Mavericks kept their trade talks with Luca completely quiet is because if it didn't work out, you don't want to deal with it. Well, that's at least a part of the reason. Now you've got Kevin D. And you try to trade Beal for the last however many months, try to trade Durant for the last whatever week, week and a half, two weeks, whatever it was. And what are they going to do the rest of the season? For this team that's now 500 after losing four of the last five, they're going to be thinking about, where the hell am I going to try to get this summer? I mean, the only thing they did to improve really bad vibes is dump the, the mountain that was moping on the end of the bench. But, dude, that's nothing in comparison to, you know, two of your three stars that are, you know, have a right to be pretty pissed off.
- [14:14]
Tim Bontemps
Well, by the way, it, like, we've talked. We've talked A lot about how much we respect the way Devin Booker goes about his business. Right. All the way through. Like he, he's been in Phoenix the whole time. He's, he's obviously been an Olympian, won gold medals, been in the finals. Like shows up, does his job. Like exemplary pro all the way around. Right. A couple years ago he's on a team that's in the finals as Mikhail Bridges there seems like it's got a Runway to be a long term contender and he's a guy that's going to be there. Like you said, McMahon, like all these guys who've been on a team for 10, 15 years and going to be on a consistent contender and he has sat there and done his job while the whole thing has been immolated around him. Like it, it is crazy to talk about trading a guy like Devin Booker when he wants to be on the team. But there, there is no other path out of this mess for the Suns. They can't do anything with this team. They are totally stuck. It's just a complete mess.
- [15:07]
Bam McMahon
Like, I keep going back to the Rockets, but Tillman Fertita had new owner syndrome and he took over a team. The year that he bought the team was the year they won 60, whatever games, you know, one a hamstring away. Lost to the warriors after Chris Paul pulled his hand. Hell of a series the next year, you know, is the bad vibes and Chris Paul's the worst contract Tillman had ever seen in business, sports. We're going to fix this and you know, quick fix, blow up in their face. And he got humbled and he got the hell out of the way. ISHBA needs to be humbled and get the hell out of the way and let basketball people run basketball operations. Not somebody who sat at the end of the bench. The you don't learn how to run an NBA freaking front office sitting on the end of the bench, no matter how good the team was in college.
- [15:55]
Zach Lowe
All right, well, more to come on that in the coming months. But next let's check out today's magic moment brought to you by State Farm.
- [16:03]
Bam McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [16:06]
Unknown
I don't just stand on business. I live it 24 7. Because you don't become a young entrepreneur by staying stagnant. Whether I'm chasing deals, networking, or taking calls from behind the wheel of my Toyota Crown, I'm always in motion. You may think launching a successful startup is enough to be satisfied, but me, I'm just getting started. It's a new day at Toyota Led by a new generation of drivers. And we want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive. Toyota. Let's go places.
- [16:37]
Brian Windhorst
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- [17:41]
Zach Lowe
I'm the magic moment when the Charlotte Hornets phone rang and Rob Pelinka said, we want Mark Williams, boys. Yeah, I don't think he was available, but the offer that they got, they couldn't say no to.
- [17:57]
Tim Bontemps
And, well, they, the, the Hornets set a price which was give us all the stuff Nico Harrison didn't get in the trade. And other than Austin Reeves. And Rob Palinka said, sure, I'll give you all the stuff other than Austin Reeves in the trade. And look, this was a, I was, I was driving home from the game in Philadelphia on Wednesday and I started getting messages about, about the Hornets trade. And I thought people were, I was like, wait, do you mean the Pelicans trade to go? I mean, we'll talk about the Brandon Ingram trade later. But I thought people were texting me about that. Then I was like, wait a second, I got a phone call. I was like, wait a second.
- [18:35]
Bam McMahon
This is what's happening.
- [18:36]
Tim Bontemps
This is a, this is a completely off the board deal. And look, I mean, Charlie, I think has done a remarkable job. We've talked about him before. The last couple years, they've done a great job of consistently getting strong asset returns and trades. Mark Williams has missed 60% of the games that he's been eligible to play in. He is a mountain of a human. He is going to be A big lob threat for Luca. He's going to throw down some massive dunks. He's also got some extraordinarily questionable defensive metrics. Some of his rim protection numbers are really bad. And he's going to be asked to be the anchor of a defense where right now you're talking about him being out there with Austin Reeves, luka Doncic and LeBron James in front of him, all of whom not exactly defensive stalwarts. So that was a heck of a price to pay for a team that's far from a finished product and a guy that while talented, has some real question marks about his game.
- [19:32]
Bam McMahon
It was a big price to pay. I think if you're looking at it from the Lakers standpoint, you've got to look at it as part of the Luca trade, right? As you said, the, the, the pick, the swap Dalton connect. Those are pieces that frankly you can argue the Mavericks should have received in that deal. And if you're going to have Luca, you got to give him a lob thread. I mean he will maximize whatever lob threat he has. And you know, I, I'm sure that the first thing they, he mentioned when they're talking about Ross Construction, I hope they already knew.
- [20:11]
Zach Lowe
I saw some people like Luca came in, said I need a center. Oh, really? Somebody write that down.
- [20:16]
Bam McMahon
Oh, but, but you know, like he lobbied for that for years and years and years.
- [20:20]
Zach Lowe
That's true.
- [20:21]
Bam McMahon
In Dallas and they finally went out and got him two last year. One in live at the deadline Gafford. But he's the best. He's the best pick and roll operator in the league. He's the like, like I said, whatever LOP 30 has, he's going to absolutely maximize. So if, you know, if this is a. They've essentially entered a year and a half long sales pitch to Luca, right. Because they, we've talked about this. They don't have the advantage that the Mavericks had of, of the supermax to, you know, certainly keep him happy. I guess you can, you know, they could, it could be a half season sales pitch even because it can extend as soon as, as this summer. And you know, when and when Lucas says hey, yeah, we obviously I dumb Luka, don't just give me the best lob that you can find and then go out and get it done like that. It's a pretty good way to start off the partnership. Now. Williams has a lot of potential and as you noted, Bond temps. There are reasons for concerns, the health being number one. And I don't know man, one thing I did learn from last year is not to over overrate awful defensive analytics on a terrible defensive team. P.J. washington came off that same Hornets team. His defensive metrics were God awful. He came to Dallas, was a major, major part of their defensive turnaround. So I'm just saying, no, it's atmospheric influence, all that stuff.
- [21:55]
Tim Bontemps
100 numbers, numbers can change, but it's, you know, he, he is a, he is a really interesting talent that is far from a finished product and is now being put in a position where he is the, he is the, you know, cornerstone partner with Luka Doncic. That is a, you know, if they had gotten Walker Kessler, I'm not saying Walker Kessler was available, but like we've seen Walker Kessler put up massive defensive numbers, right? You could confidently say Walker Kessler could catch a lob and also be a true anchor of a defense. We have not seen that yet for Mark Williams. He may do that. He may get to la. And JJ Redick, who's known as Duke, might be able to get him playing in a much different way. And this could all look great, like he is at least a young, exciting talent, but it was a heck of a swing for a Laker team that doesn't have a lot of swings to make. And as you said this, that they've got somewhere between six and 18 months, depending on when or if they get Luca to sign an extension to show him, hey, we could build a team that's going to fit around you. And while, you know, getting a lob threat helps, it's got to be a lob threat that leads to winning games and let's see what happens with that.
- [23:09]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, well, they're also going to have to extend them this summer. Did you mention that? I'm sorry if you did.
- [23:13]
Tim Bontemps
I didn't mention that. But yeah, I mean, we've talked a lot about the summer of 26, right, when all these guys are going to be available. Luka Doncic could be a free agent then, for example, and Mark Williams will be a restricted free agent that summer. And it makes an interesting situation for the Lakers who just traded for this guy and in theory are invested quite a bit in him. But it might be better for them to wait and have a lower cap hold in that summer if they want to try to get in free agency, which I suspect they might.
- [23:40]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, they don't, they don't have. They can extend into some. They don't have to like the right.
- [23:45]
Tim Bontemps
He could sign a rookie extension that would kick in the following summer. That's what Brian had to be Clear.
- [23:49]
Zach Lowe
Speaking of summer of 26, I'm just gonna. I'm not gonna focus much on this Clippers trade that they did today. The Clippers traded Terence Mann for Bogdan Bogdanovich. But when the Clippers did the deal with. Did the offer to Paul George, they wanted them to be. They wanted to be out of the money by 26. And then when they, when they let him go, that was part of the reason was because they wanted to have. They wanted to have their books clean up in 26. The Clippers have now made a second move where. Because. Because Terrence Mann, his contract goes, I think, for four years and Bogdan Bogdanovich's goes for one more. And so one more, you know, he's next year. And so just, just want to point out real quick, you know, we're way, way, way ahead of ourselves. But if you, if you look at the, some of the other moves that they've. That they've made, like they signed James Harden. You know, he's. His contract is up in 26:1. Right. But, you know. Yeah. Norman Powell, contract up in 26. It could extend him. I. I'm, you know.
- [25:06]
Bam McMahon
Yeah.
- [25:07]
Tim Bontemps
Just saying there's a lot of teams that have eyed that summer. It's not just one, but something to watch.
- [25:12]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. Okay, so we'll see how that works out. I'm looking forward to Luca. ESPN moved heaven and earth. Or maybe not Earth, maybe not heaven. Whatever it was, ESPN made a lot of moves to get the Lakers game scrambled to be put on the air at 4:00 Eastern on Saturday. And then Luke is not going to pump.
- [25:38]
Bam McMahon
Hey, he's ducking Rick Carlisle because they're playing that.
- [25:42]
Zach Lowe
It was a Pacers game. Yeah.
- [25:43]
Bam McMahon
Oh, yeah.
- [25:44]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [25:44]
Bam McMahon
We saw the Jazz up next and said they don't want to win. That'd be a good one to start out again.
- [25:49]
Zach Lowe
I am looking forward to seeing LUCA Play with LeBron and Mark Williams, so.
- [25:53]
Bam McMahon
It'D be entertaining as hell.
- [25:55]
Zach Lowe
Speaking of Luca, you were with the. You've been with the Mavs last couple days. Bontemps. You're with him in. In Philly. Then you went up to Boston with them tonight where they had a really good win. You described a little bit of what it's like around there, but they're in a weird zone right now. I'm not sure I've ever seen a team like, imagine the anger at what happened when LeBron left. But the anger was directed at LeBron.
- [26:21]
Bam McMahon
Yeah.
- [26:22]
Zach Lowe
And it was in the off season.
- [26:24]
Tim Bontemps
Right. That is, that is, that's a good comparison to what I was going to say. Like, I was talking to some people about this today, and the, the crazy thing about this Luka Doncic situation is exactly what you just said. When there have been these really acrimonious divorces in the past in sports, almost all of them are driven by the player. It's LeBron choosing to go to Miami, Durant Shaquille O'Neal choosing to go to the Lakers. It's Kevin Durant choosing to go to the Warriors. It's a guy saying, I've been with the team for a long time, but you know what? I'm ready for something else. Or he asked for a trade. Or there's some trigger where the hometown fans are upset at the player for leaving. There's. There's very few instances where there is this kind of venom and vitriol over a trade.
- [27:18]
Bam McMahon
I, I can you. I can't think of one off top my head.
- [27:23]
Tim Bontemps
So the only one that I can think of for sure is when the Mets traded Tom Seaver, which nobody listened to this podcast can. All right, NBA wise, these kind of guys don't get traded like this. But Tom Seaver wanted to stay with the Mets. He got traded because the GM wanted to trade him and got mad when he went to the owner and negotiated a contract. They traded him in the middle of the night and the fan base completely freaked out. The team cratered. The. The GM got fired. Shea Stadium became nicknamed Grant's Tomb. Like, the whole thing turned into a potential. We'll see what happens with the Mavs over the next few years. But they trade Tom Seaver, everything goes to hell, and the fan base completely revolts on him. The only other things I could think of that compared to this in talking with a couple people today was when, like, the Baltimore Colts moved to Indianapolis and the Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore.
- [28:19]
Zach Lowe
And it was like, yeah, but again, that didn't. Okay. The Browns moving to Baltimore was interesting because. Okay, that's a good comparison because it happened. I know, but it happened in the season. That's the key is it happened in the season. The Browns. I went to one of the games where they were lame duck where, you know, and the game was secondary to the message that was being sent to ownership. Like, and so that's actually a very good comparison. They played against the Packers. Young Brett Favreau killed him. Nobody cared about the game. So that makes me wonder, McMahon, what you're walking into on Saturday, the game is and what Anthony Davis does is like.
- [29:02]
Bam McMahon
And it's. It's Anthony Davis's debut in a Dallas uniform that is such a secondary story. Like, there are these massive. There's like this big protest plan. There's going to be, I promise you, a ton of extra security. I would not look for Nico Harrison in his normal seat in, like, the third or fourth row, I can assure you of that. There's been some very unfortunate. You know, listen, I understand fan anger. That's within your rights. It's. It's gone way, way, way too far in too many instances of, like, potential criminal type of stuff. Not potential. Could easily be criminal type of stuff.
- [29:44]
Zach Lowe
Well, there's some vandalism at the arena. That's criminal, right? Like that. Yeah.
- [29:48]
Bam McMahon
Much more serious than that, at least in terms.
- [29:50]
Tim Bontemps
More serious than vandalism in terms of.
- [29:51]
Bam McMahon
It's not great stuff. And. And just. Just stuff that's way over, way out of line. And, you know, if fans want to be mad, Nico Harrison, hey, you're within your rights. Like, he traded the face. Your franchise, the guy you thought you're going to have for years and years to come and just took you to the finals. He did it in the middle of the night and, you know, hey, he gave. Kind of shanked him on the way out. If we're going to be completely blunt about it, I get the anger, but it's. It. It's got a potential to be a real toxic atmosphere.
- [30:23]
Zach Lowe
Do you think Luca could say something to. Would that help, do you think?
- [30:31]
Tim Bontemps
It's not his job.
- [30:33]
Bam McMahon
It's not his job.
- [30:34]
Zach Lowe
Well, I'm not. I'm not saying it is, but I.
- [30:36]
Tim Bontemps
Don'T think it's up to him to say, dallas fans, you need to chill. I. That's not a realistic expectation.
- [30:41]
Bam McMahon
I mean, it's a hypothetical. That ain't gonna happen.
- [30:44]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [30:44]
Bam McMahon
I mean, it wouldn't hurt, but I don't know if it helps. Like, he's still like Lucas saying, it's not going to put number 77 back in A.
- [30:52]
Tim Bontemps
It's not going to stop any. The. The crazy. The crazy thing about this, like, from being around this team the last couple days. Like, Tuesday night, the Mavericks lose to the Sixers. Kyrie Irving hadn't talked about this trade yet. He talked for 10 minutes. I know it's a regular season basketball game, but they lost on a one possession game where they completely messed up the final possession. Didn't even get a shot off, basically, and lost. Right. It's not like the Mavericks are in a position where they can just give away games right now. Kyrie talked for 10 minutes the game was. No one even considered asking him about the game. Anthony Davis was acquired by the Dallas Mavericks. Anthony Davis is one of the 75 best players in the history of basketball. Is having problem.
- [31:35]
Zach Lowe
He's in his prime still in his prime. Yes.
- [31:37]
Tim Bontemps
He's probably having the best season of his career. He is an awesome player. And Anthony Davis comes over to do media on Tuesday in Philadelphia and Kyrie Irving is joking to the media saying take it easy on like he's be like they got a all NBA star player back in a trade. The kind of guy that when he shows up people are usually like oh man, Anthony Davis on our team. This is awesome. And instead he. He's walking into a funeral. It is the weirdest, most bizarre thing I've ever seen.
- [32:09]
Bam McMahon
Literally there was a casket at the protest the day after at the arena the day after the traits what a casket. I mean it's going to be nuts. Dude. I'm. I fly in from Oklahoma City tonight and I'm waiting to get my bags. Two of them. Wendy didn't even bring that many shoes but not nine night trips. So got wait my two bags.
- [32:30]
Zach Lowe
Just keep those toes covered.
- [32:32]
Bam McMahon
And Jackson. I'll send you the. The the pictures here but on the There's a screen above the baggage claim and chocolate.
- [32:41]
Zach Lowe
Welcome to welcome home Tim McMahon. Is that what it's.
- [32:43]
Bam McMahon
No, that certainly was not that hashtag M77L playoff MFFL mass fan for life. But it's seven with the Mavericks logo the Choctaw Casino. And then it flashes to another screen. Thanks for always going all in. 77 looks like one of the first things you see when you fly to dfw. Like there has not been this kind of venom and anger and disgust and heartbreak in Dallas sports since egos caused the divorce of Jimmy and Jerry. And again the similarity there is. They weren't mad at Jimmy. They weren't mad at the guy who so much joy and. And success. You know Luke didn't win championships but man, he. I mean the accomplishments do 73 point game, you know, triple double a 60 triple double final run.
- [33:36]
Zach Lowe
That playoff run last year was so special for Dallas. It was. It was a little bit unexpected and it just happened. Right, right.
- [33:42]
Tim Bontemps
It just happened.
- [33:43]
Zach Lowe
They're still basking. Like imagine if LeBron like I remember LeBron in 2007, he makes that playoff run, they get swept, you know, disappointing. But like imagine if LeBron was traded like a few months later.
- [33:57]
Bam McMahon
We've never seen a trade like this, Never seen this kind of talent traded at 25 years old when he was shocked by it and was. I mean, the guy was about to buy another house, you know, I mean.
- [34:10]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, he was fifth in the straw pole. He was fifth in the straw poll. Even after a rough start to the season. He was fit in the straw poll six weeks ago.
- [34:17]
Bam McMahon
But again, we haven't seen this level of just fan vitriol here since the Jimmy Jerry thing, and that was all targeted at Jerry. They're so mad at the Mavericks and frankly at Nico specifically. I don't believe Nico acted alone. I do not believe that. But he's. He's the one who's, you know, I don't want to go that metaphor. He's the one who's taking the heat. They're so mad at him that Jerry Jones just made a tremendously unpopular coaching hire. It's like, almost like forgot. We'll be pissed about that again after the Mazar are eliminated.
- [35:00]
Tim Bontemps
You know, I also want to. I also want to read a quote from. I want to read two quotes from today, because again, this trade happened six days ago, right? It's not like the trade happened yesterday. Spencer Dinwiddie got asked this morning about the fan base's reaction to Luca getting traded. Quote, it's completely understandable. It shows what Luca meant to the community. It shows how much the fan base loves him and still loves it. I think the fan. I think for a fan base that had dirt for 20 years and seemingly right when Dirk was about to retire, they got Dirk 2.0. In a sense, it's understandable. Nobody is mad at the Dallas fans for their reaction. With something that's emotional, you have to give it a chance to process and feel and live in that moment. And then Klay Thompson got asked about this game on Saturday and asked what the atmosphere was going to be like. Quote, it's probably going to be a lot of heartbreak amongst the fans, probably some booze. But as a professional, you have to embrace everything, and we're paid to play this game and perform at the highest level. I don't know what to expect. I know Luka was so dear to every Mavs fan's heart. We've just got to win and do it on a consistent basis and give ourselves a chance to win the whole thing. And I think that will ease all the fans pain and anger. It's going to be weird, but that's what we sign up for. These guys are talking like they're Going on the road for a game.
- [36:17]
Bam McMahon
It.
- [36:17]
Tim Bontemps
This is the weirdest story I've ever seen. I've never seen anything like this.
- [36:22]
Bam McMahon
I think it'll be more hostile than any road game, certainly in the regular.
- [36:26]
Zach Lowe
Season that they would occasionally in European soccer, because even though those teams have owners, they're very much more seen as public trusts. And so occasionally you will see like a backlash against the board or the chairman or the owner or whatever. And there will be a game where all of the. The fans will use the game as an. They'll forget about the game itself and they'll use the entire game as an opportunity to send a message to ownership. By the way, those messages are often very powerful and tend to work in this case. It's not something we're used to seeing in America, and I don't think it can do anything. It's all symbolic. So I don't know how long it'll last.
- [37:10]
Bam McMahon
About the backlash. They literally are giving refunds to people who cancel season tickets. And. And what. What's happened here is people, there's a lot of people who have been mass fans since they were kids that once this went down, they decided they're bigger fans of Luca than they are of the Mavericks. And as much as, you know, like, if you're a Mavericks fan, if you're basically any teams fan other than a Lakers fan, you despise the Lakers. You know, they're the Yankees or the Cowboys, Notre Dame, whatever. You either love them or you hate them. All these people have hated. The Lakers are now like, damn, I guess, are we Lakers fans now? Like, what's happening here?
- [37:51]
Tim Bontemps
It's just. It's just such a weird. It's just such a bizarre existence for the Mavs to be in it. And like, I don't. I don't really know how long it's going to be like this. I don't think they're going to go home and play one game and this is just going to go away. Like, I think it'll go away eventually.
- [38:09]
Zach Lowe
My God, what happens if Luca on Monday, what happens if he scores? What happens if he puts up like 48 points?
- [38:16]
Tim Bontemps
He's going to. They're playing the Jazz. He's going to have a huge game. This is what I was going to ask you, McMahon. What? Because I don't really know the answer. Like, is Anthony Davis going to get booed?
- [38:26]
Bam McMahon
I. I don't think so.
- [38:27]
Tim Bontemps
I think that would be very strange if he did, but I don't know.
- [38:30]
Bam McMahon
I don't know. Maybe I Don't know that's going to be interest. But I, I don't think it's. His buddy's mad at Anthony Davis. What? Like.
- [38:38]
Tim Bontemps
Right.
- [38:39]
Zach Lowe
But it's like, it's.
- [38:40]
Tim Bontemps
And again, we're talking about the man traded for Anthony Davis and the guy might get booed for getting traded to a.
- [38:45]
Bam McMahon
He might get booed. He might get booed because he represents.
- [38:49]
Tim Bontemps
Yes.
- [38:50]
Bam McMahon
Trade. I don't think there's any venom directed towards.
- [38:54]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, I mean, that would be insane.
- [38:56]
Zach Lowe
I think he, I think he will get booed.
- [38:58]
Tim Bontemps
I, I just can't wrap my head around this story. Like, it, it really feels like a team getting ripped away from a city, but the team is still there.
- [39:08]
Bam McMahon
Yeah.
- [39:08]
Tim Bontemps
I can't. And all these players are acting like they're.
- [39:12]
Bam McMahon
It's crazy theories that, oh, this is all because the Texas gambling stuff. They're trying to get the laws changed and going well. They're trying to take the team to Vegas. Like, dude, that's not happening.
- [39:23]
Zach Lowe
I mean, the NBA is not having.
- [39:25]
Tim Bontemps
A team move from Dallas to Los Angeles.
- [39:27]
Zach Lowe
I will not entertain any of this conspiracy bs.
- [39:31]
Bam McMahon
I'm. The, the stuff that I've reported is the reasoning. People. I'm, I understand you're shocked. I understand you think it's completely ridiculous. The Mavericks decided they didn't want to be in the Luka Doncic business because they didn't believe in him, because they didn't think he was ever going to change his habits. They thought the condition was always going to be a problem and they believed that his body's going to break down and they didn't want to pay him $350 million. We can go around and around and discuss all the different routes they could have taken. Even if they're right about all those things, the ways they could have gotten more on the return, the timeline. But those are the reasons.
- [40:11]
Tim Bontemps
That's right. They made their choice and they are now living with it. And it, it is just the most bizarre. I, like, haven't been around it the last couple days. It's. I, I wish I was going to be at this game on Saturday because I feel like it's going to be a once in a lifetime deal. I, I really, I really can't even imagine what it's going to be like because I have never seen a team that's reacted like this to a trade.
- [40:33]
Bam McMahon
I'm not sure I'm looking forward to it.
- [40:38]
Zach Lowe
All right, well, we'll talk more about that. Hang in there, McMahon. There was a trade that happened late Wednesday night that we didn't get a chance to talk about. It was a significant trade and I think it's going to result in a nine figure contract and that's Brandon Ingram who'd been available for weeks, months going to Toronto. This is a strange trade. The Raptors are supposed to be tanking. It was a smart move to tank. They traded away Siakam and OG Anunoby last year. They had some injury problems this year but they were absolutely losing like crazy. They were right in position to be a primary in the, in the top three for the Cooper Flag sweepstakes and then they start winning. Recently had some wins, you know, they got a little healthier and Scotty Barnes started playing really well and they got some wins and then they went and trade for Brandon Ingram and I don't know, is the contract done yet? Bontaps. I, I heard the contract figures like what they're negotiating but I, I don't want to say it if it's not done.
- [41:41]
Tim Bontemps
I don't know. I don't know if an extension is done. What I will say is Brandon Ingram was available to be traded for, for a long time and was not traded for a long time and now he's been traded to a team that sent a first round pick out to acquire him and Messiah. Jerry sent a very praiseful message out with the release announcing the trade and I would be very surprised if Brandon Ingram is not extended by the Rats.
- [42:06]
Zach Lowe
It sounds like they're going to do a multi year deal that is worth nine figures. I'll just leave it at that. Without getting too aggregated, I covered the.
- [42:15]
Bam McMahon
Historic night of Brandon Ingram's last appearance.
- [42:17]
Zach Lowe
In a pelican's uniform when he sprained his ankle.
- [42:20]
Bam McMahon
When he sprained his ankle? Yeah, against Oklahoma City Thunder.
- [42:24]
Zach Lowe
Well, look that a long time with that sprained ankle.
- [42:27]
Bam McMahon
That's what I'm saying is that thing is that, you know, is he going to be ready to roll or wasn't.
- [42:31]
Zach Lowe
It amazing if he signed that contract and came blasting out and scored 37.
- [42:35]
Tim Bontemps
Well listen, you said the rest of.
- [42:38]
Bam McMahon
Season will recover and they can get back in that Cooper flag.
- [42:40]
Zach Lowe
Good point.
- [42:41]
Tim Bontemps
So Brian, so you said the Raptors are trying to tank, right? So I think if you go back, if you go back and look at how this has all played out, you know, for a year, for a couple of years before they traded Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby and Fred Van Vliet left in free agency, there was kind of this will they, won't they thing with Messiah Jerry and the Raptors or are they going to move on from the the remnants of the title team?
- [43:03]
Bam McMahon
Right.
- [43:03]
Tim Bontemps
They'd slowly started, traded some of the guys and then they eventually finally pulled the plug last year. They trade OJN and OBI for a package including Emmanuel Quickly and RJ Barrett. They trade Pascal Seakum for a bunch of first round picks. They take one of those picks now trade him for Brandon Ingram. They have Grady Dick who they drafted in the lottery. They've got Scotty Barnes who obviously they just gave a max contract to. They, they're going to have a top pick in this year's draft. And I think the plan for the the Raptors is you've got Scotty Barnes, you've got Emmanuel Quickley, you've got Grady Dick and RJ Barrett. You have Jakob Pearl signed on a multi year deal. They really like him as their center now. They sign, they get Brandon Ingram. They're going to sign him. They're going to draft this guy in the top five to 10 in the draft. That's their rebuild. That's their team. They, they clearly believe that Scotty Barnes and whoever they get in this draft are going to be good enough to be the guys on the next really good Raptors team. So by doing this trade and getting Brandon Ingram, clearly Masai Ujiri is betting on Brandon Ingram. Like I said, he put out a very strong pro branding statement announcing the trade and it's a big bet on Scotty Barnes being able to become a top 10 or 15 player in the league and a guy that's good enough to be on that kind of team.
- [44:24]
Zach Lowe
Lead that in a vet, in a vacuum, the Raptors have never been able to be a free agent destination. I, I guess they, you know, whatever this is, this was a free agent move really.
- [44:39]
Tim Bontemps
They, they acquire percent 100% they acquire.
- [44:42]
Zach Lowe
His rights and they're going to sign him. So they see an opportunity to get a high level player. I get that. But they shouldn't necessarily be doing free agency now anyway. Even if they were a high.
- [44:56]
Tim Bontemps
Why not? Why not?
- [44:58]
Bam McMahon
Because of the Tank stuff.
- [45:00]
Zach Lowe
I, I'm not sure that this team is, is good enough is, is that, you know, I'm not sure that you should be proud of that rebuild. Now if again if they get Cooper flag.
- [45:10]
Tim Bontemps
But well, but again that's what I'm, but that's what I'm saying. They, they have said from the moment they traded OG Anunoby and Pascal Siakam about a year ago now, right. They made it Clear. This was not going to be a three or four year awful, be bad three or four years in a row thing. Now you can argue whether they should.
- [45:30]
Zach Lowe
Everybody says that. Everybody says that.
- [45:32]
Tim Bontemps
Well, okay, but the Raptors actions over words. The actions of the Raptors were they traded OG Anunoby for Emmanuel Quickley. They gave him $170 million. Right. They treated him like a guy they think is a high level starter. At the point they have Scotty Barnes. They drafted fourth overall. They gave him a max contract. They clearly think he's going to be a perennial all star kind of player. They now signed Brandon Ingram. They're going to give him a bunch of money. They clearly think he's a guy that can lead them back to being a playoff level team. And they're going to end up with a high pick in this year's draft, whoever it is, and they're going to believe that guy could be a guy that is a high level player down the road. And that Scotty Barnes and this year's draft pick, those are going to be their two high level swings like that. Whether it works or not is one thing. But that's pretty clearly through their actions what the Raptors are going to do and they're, they're going to put their foot down starting this summer. And I think next year the expectation should be that Toronto is going to be in the playoffs. That's what they're projecting, that they're going to be in the top eight in the East.
- [46:38]
Zach Lowe
Well, it's not considering there's three or four teams that are in just the same boat as them. Basically it's not as hard to get to the top eight in the east, so.
- [46:47]
Tim Bontemps
Well, but that's, I mean, but that's. If you're doing this Brandon Ingram thing, you're not doing it to be a 25 win team next year. In theory, like they're going to be brushing up against Luxury Tax.
- [46:57]
Zach Lowe
I mean, okay, then, then they could have done it in the summer and.
- [47:01]
Tim Bontemps
Not well, but they already have all these contracts on their books and they couldn't sign them as a free agent. That's why they did it.
- [47:05]
Zach Lowe
No, they could sign and trade and that's.
- [47:07]
Tim Bontemps
But they traded Bruce Brown who's an expiring contract. Like that's.
- [47:11]
Zach Lowe
That's true.
- [47:12]
Tim Bontemps
They had to do it now, which is why they went and got him now.
- [47:14]
Zach Lowe
That's true. You're right.
- [47:15]
Bam McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [47:23]
Zach Lowe
Okay. Yeah. All right. There was one of the significant moves of actual deadline day that happened Today was the Cleveland Cavs acquiring DeAndre Hunter from the Atlanta Hawks. They. They said Caris LeVert, who's having a great year. Also DeAndre Hunter is having. Carrie Silvertis. If he's not having the best year of his career, we, you know, he had some good years when he was a starter. He's having one of the best years of the bench players in the east. And DeAndre Hunter is having the best year of his career from. For the. For the. For the Hawks. The Cav set three. Three second round picks. Carrie Sliver, George Niang and a couple of pick swaps. The.
- [48:05]
Bam McMahon
The G wagon, baby.
- [48:07]
Zach Lowe
Gotta pack up the G wagon. The G wagon heading for I75 South. The. The. The pick swaps are swaps on swaps.
- [48:20]
Bam McMahon
Which swaps on swaps in the second round. Wow.
- [48:25]
Zach Lowe
No, the first round.
- [48:26]
Bam McMahon
Oh, they're first round. My bad.
- [48:27]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, they're. The Cavs have already swapped the. Those picks with Utah. So they give. After they swap it with Utah, they give Atlanta the opportunity to then resell.
- [48:41]
Bam McMahon
The basically game swaps with Utah is essentially what they did. The Hawks can get Utah's picks.
- [48:47]
Zach Lowe
Yes, that's correct.
- [48:48]
Bam McMahon
Yes.
- [48:49]
Zach Lowe
Utah's draft position. Yeah.
- [48:50]
Bam McMahon
Yeah. So not probably a ton of value in those at this time.
- [48:55]
Zach Lowe
20, 28. Who knows? Who knows where things are? But anyway, this is the Cavs recognizing that they think they've got a chance to win the whole thing. They think they need size in the perimeter. Hunter, I believe, is listed at six, eight.
- [49:14]
Bam McMahon
And like a big strong six.
- [49:17]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. And he's one of these guys who has all the physical tools but doesn't rebound as well as you think he should, despite his physicality, doesn't generate steals like you think he should. Doesn't know.
- [49:32]
Tim Bontemps
He does one thing, he shoots. And he's had a great shooting season.
- [49:36]
Bam McMahon
He guards, too.
- [49:38]
Tim Bontemps
He doesn't do a lot of guarding. He's had a great. He's had a great shooting season. But this. Look, it's.
- [49:45]
Bam McMahon
It.
- [49:45]
Tim Bontemps
This is a fascinating deal on a variety of fronts. First off, I give the Cavs a lot of credit for making the deal, whether it works out or not. Because they're 41 and 10. It would be extraordinarily easy to just say, hey, we've got a great team. We're not going to rock the boat. We're not going to do anything with this group. We're just going to ride it out and see how it is. But we have talked a whole season about how the. The Cavs are pretty light in size. On the perimeter and in taking care of the vert and turning him into DeAndre Hunter, they are getting a guy who's a legitimate three who is a, you know, shooting 39% from three this year on almost seven attempts a game. Quinn Snyder has really cleaned up his shot, his shot chart. He was taking a lot more mid range jumpers in the past, taking a ton of threes.
- [50:35]
Bam McMahon
Not a pretty toes. Guy needs to get behind that three point arc.
- [50:38]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, this is just never going to stop. But please don't. I want. He's had, he's averaging 19 a game. He's had a great year for the Hawks but he is a guy who has had a ton of injury concerns over time. He's played over 60 games in his career twice. He's on pace to play 59 this year and he is an iffy defender. But look, he gives them some positional size on the wing. He does give him a knockdown shooter with size which will help.
- [51:10]
Bam McMahon
And again the reason he was, the reason he was a fourth overall pick was because he had big time defensive potential. So if he defender, whatever there's, he has potential.
- [51:20]
Tim Bontemps
I agree, I agree. Look, I mean he's, he has more defensive potential than Charis LeVert and he's bigger than Caris Lavert. And that's why they made the trade because they're going to be playing teams like the Knicks with OG Anunoby, Mikhail Bridges and the Celtics with, with Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown and maybe the Oklahoma City Thunder with Jalen Williams and these other big, you know, big physical wings there and they needed more size on the wing. And like I said, I give the Cavs a lot of credit for doing this trade because they didn't need to do it. Nobody would have said boo if the Cavs did nothing today and rode this out. Maybe made a small move to get under the tax and said hey, we love our team. We're just going to see how it goes. This is a gutsy swing to change the makeup of the locker room to make an addition. It, you know, take on some future money. This is, it's a, it's a very, very interesting trade.
- [52:14]
Zach Lowe
So the interesting thing is the Cavs had sort of three assets that were attractive in trade. One was Caris LeVert it's expiring contract. He's having a good year. Two is their rookie Jaylon Tyson, who's looked okay in some moments. He, he's not a guy would have a lot of value but he would sort of represent a first round Pick in a deal and then they have one first round pick that they can trade. I think it's 2030 or 2031. They got DeAndre Hunter by only trading one of those three things.
- [52:45]
Bam McMahon
And we're just gonna, we're just gonna diss. Bang, bang like that. Well, you might have the high. He might still have the highest winning percentage of this decade.
- [52:55]
Zach Lowe
Well, I will say this. You know, one of the things about. Whatever you want to say about George Niang, he. He makes 40 and you know, the Hawks would gladly. They need shooting and they'll gladly accept it.
- [53:06]
Bam McMahon
Hey, Quinn knows what he's getting. He had him in Utah.
- [53:09]
Tim Bontemps
The Hawks had a bit of a strange day today. I mean, they make this DeAndre Hunter trade, they get back Carris Leverton, George the Yang, then they get back Terence Mann in another deal. I honestly haven't even looked at their roster. I'm going to look at it now. I mean, they have a, they have a funky team now that I was.
- [53:25]
Zach Lowe
Talking to somebody in Atlanta today and I go, I don't really know what your rotation is right now. And he goes, that's okay. Neither do we figure it out.
- [53:34]
Tim Bontemps
It is a strange, it is a strange.
- [53:36]
Zach Lowe
Quinn might need. The Queen might need the red glasses too.
- [53:41]
Bam McMahon
Raphael's. You see clearly in those.
- [53:44]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. So. But you know, the one thing that's going to happen here, I mean, this was probably already going to happen. But by taking on Hunter, the Cavs are now ticketed for the second apron because Evan Moby's deal will come on extensions for Jared Allen and Donovan.
- [54:06]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, they're at 202 guaranteed million dollars for eight players.
- [54:11]
Bam McMahon
And if you're going to be a second apron team, you better be a contender. They've got the best record in these now. They have. And Kenny Atkinson was pretty honest about this. They've struggled against the elite teams. You know, I was up there when the Celtics beat him recently. Lost a couple times recently to.
- [54:29]
Zach Lowe
That was just like two days ago recently.
- [54:31]
Tim Bontemps
It was recently.
- [54:33]
Bam McMahon
Hey, it's been a long two days. Yeah, that's right. You know, so they, they've. And, and he talks about like, they've really got to dig in and kind of learn from that. And man, I, I would guess that something that they dug in and learned is, hey, we need to get bigger and a little bit more athletic on the wing.
- [54:55]
Tim Bontemps
Well, by the way, who do they. I mean, they played the Celtics Tuesday. They make this trade today, like, whether. Whether there is true causation of that or not, like it's hard to look at that and say they looked at that game, had another struggle against them, and said we gotta do something to beef up our perimeter rotation.
- [55:12]
Zach Lowe
I'll say this too, like they looked at several options. I know that they were one of the teams in talks with Memphis about Marcus Smart. Marcus Smart ended up getting kind of quasi salary dumped to Washington.
- [55:23]
Tim Bontemps
Not quasi, quasi. I love, I love Marcus Smart, but that was the salary.
- [55:29]
Bam McMahon
He got sent to Siberia. Like it didn't work out in Memphis.
- [55:33]
Zach Lowe
The Cavs could have done that deal. They could have gotten Marcus Smart and the draft pick. Well, and, and Frank, they went with, with Hunter instead.
- [55:45]
Bam McMahon
Well, who's, who's bigger, who's a better shooter and who is having a better year. And by far as you know, Marcus Smart's doing this finger thing now. I don't know, like it might linger for a while. Now.
- [55:59]
Tim Bontemps
There's a reason why Memphis gave up a first round pick.
- [56:02]
Zach Lowe
And you're saying on that flight to D.C. that that finger might get aggravated? Is that what you're saying?
- [56:06]
Bam McMahon
Yeah. Well, the middle one might get some work on the, you know, as he's leaving Memphis.
- [56:13]
Tim Bontemps
There's a. Yeah, there's a reason a first went with Marcus and there's a reason seconds went out to get DeAndre.
- [56:19]
Bam McMahon
And listen, lost his starting job to a second round draft pick. Who's, who's a rookie now. Jalen Wells ain't your normal second round draft pick rookies. He's going to be a starter for a long, long time. But he lost his, he lost his starting job.
- [56:33]
Zach Lowe
I will say this. The Wizards acquired, I think, two firsts and pick swap and a bunch of seconds, although they traded four seconds. There's, there's a bit of a, there was a bit of a weird trade from Philly today where Philly wasn't.
- [56:48]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, do you want me to explain it quickly? So the, the Wizards have a ton of seconds. They didn't have any extra first. The Sixers had a very cheap extra first. It's basically almost certainly going to be Oklahoma City's first in 2026. They give the Wizards that pick. They get four second round picks. They get a bunch more seconds. The Wizards get extra first. The Wizards made a bunch of moves to get extra first today. They clearly wanted to get some extra first round picks. That's the trade.
- [57:18]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, but I just. Here's the thing about the Wizards. They got a couple of first round picks in their dealings today, but they also wanted to get some veterans. And so they got Chris Middleton and they got Marcus Smart and they could have traded Malcolm Brogdon to Memphis, but they didn't. And from what I understand, talking to people in Washington like they wanted to keep Malcolm Brogdon because they want veterans on their team. And I think they're a little tired of getting their asses kicked. I mean by 15 every game. And so 15, boy, I saw him.
- [57:56]
Bam McMahon
Coming here and that's when Clay had 21 in the first quarter and that was all she wrote.
- [58:01]
Zach Lowe
So I think they would like to Not = the 72. Where's the 71, 72, 76ers. They need a couple more wins to do that.
- [58:08]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, they don't. They don't have to sweat whether they're going to have maximized lottery rights at this point. They gotta avoid. Yes. Chris Middleton using the lizards on NBA 2K.
- [58:21]
Zach Lowe
You know, my son and I have mostly been focusing on soccer recently. We haven't transitioned to much basketball. But I told you they updated the game and Kispert has lost his Steph Curry qualities and that was really turned.
- [58:34]
Bam McMahon
Off by that and that's probably impacted his on court performance. So you're in part responsible for this season. Washington that Marcus Smart is going to help him turn around.
- [58:45]
Zach Lowe
Yes. Extremely frustrating that. That my secret weapon in that game against my son went away.
- [58:53]
Bam McMahon
Yeah. You let him win anyway.
- [58:55]
Zach Lowe
That is correct. You know, you don't let your sons win.
- [58:58]
Bam McMahon
But listen, gotta compete. Yeah.
- [59:00]
Zach Lowe
Well, anyway, so the Cavs feel like. The Cavs obviously feel like they can like, like, like they can win the east and this. They believe this move can help them. We'll see. Is the long and short of it.
- [59:18]
Tim Bontemps
Is there anything to him for doing it though?
- [59:20]
Bam McMahon
I think it will help them.
- [59:22]
Zach Lowe
Is there anything I'm forgetting from today, guys? I don't know. It's been a long day.
- [59:25]
Bam McMahon
I think there should be five for the land and put DeAndre Hunter up on that big old banner.
- [59:30]
Zach Lowe
I think so.
- [59:31]
Tim Bontemps
The only other deal we haven't talked about is because you mentioned Middleton is Middleton for coups. And we'll. We'll talk about Kyle Kuzma in the future to see what that looks like.
- [59:39]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, we'll see how that works in. In Milwaukee. All right.
- [59:43]
Tim Bontemps
His first game for Hubie Brown's last game Sunday. Sixers. Sixers Bucks in. In Milwaukee Sunday afternoon. Great Hubie Brown final broadcast.
- [59:55]
Zach Lowe
Great man. Hubie Brown. All right. Thank you to Jackson for a lot.
- [60:01]
Tim Bontemps
Hold on, hold on.
- [60:03]
Zach Lowe
Oh, oh, I'm sorry.
- [60:05]
Bam McMahon
Hold on. Padre.
- [60:06]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, now we gotta. Now before. Before Our guy gets launched into his whatever toe joke he makes about the Cojones Factor.
- [60:17]
Bam McMahon
Oh, I got the legend.
- [60:19]
Tim Bontemps
The legend. Mike Walczewski has created a intro for the con. Look, there's the dance. I told Jackson Walchewski, I saw him at a recent Nick game. He said, oh, man, hey, listen, I'm gonna send you a, a bumper for the Cojones Factor. I said, you don't know how happy McMahon is going to be that he's got his own theme music now for this thing.
- [60:42]
Bam McMahon
So not my own theme music. That's been banned.
- [60:45]
Tim Bontemps
Well, that's true. When you, when you listen back to the podcast, you will hear the dulcet tones of Mike Wachuski right now.
- [60:52]
Bam McMahon
It's now time to reveal the winner of the Cojones Factor Player of the month with your moderator.
- [60:59]
Unknown
Bad McMahon.
- [61:02]
Zach Lowe
Three point goal.
- [61:04]
Tim Bontemps
There you go, McMahon.
- [61:06]
Bam McMahon
All right, we ready for this? Yeah, it'll be a quickie because we're a little bit late on this. The beginning of February, kind of a.
- [61:15]
Tim Bontemps
Lot, a lot has happened this week. By the way. This is why I made sure that we did Cojones factor this month, because he sent, he got me this beginning of January and I was like, all right, gotta make sure we get in for February.
- [61:25]
Zach Lowe
All right.
- [61:25]
Tim Bontemps
The end of the month.
- [61:26]
Bam McMahon
Yeah. So this is January going his factory player of the month. And there is a one. A guy who's got some of the prettiest toes in the league, a mid range master is going to get the Browns balls, the brass balls. My bad, my bad. And well, he's going to get all these clutch shots now once again because the guy who's been a clutch player of the year got shipped out of Sacramento, baby. It's DeMar DeRozan show to close again. And for good reason, fellas, the Kings, they, they've been winning those close games lately in large part because DeRozan 27 points plus 35 in 29 clutch minutes last week. Brass balls for DeMar DeRozan. You know what? I, My research has been a little bit sloppy here. I forgot to. I had this looked up. I got like a million and six windows open. But did you guys see Trey Young's 49 foot game winner?
- [62:25]
Zach Lowe
I sure did. And he gave it the old ice, the old.
- [62:30]
Bam McMahon
Lifestyle. Although the ice does have a, you know, could have a shriveling impact. Oh, man, I did. I. Oh, what have I done? I had the longest, the longest. Buzzer beaters dialed up and I, Darius.
- [62:45]
Zach Lowe
Garland, hit a 31 footer in calf's corner to beat them.
- [62:49]
Bam McMahon
We mentioned that the cojones factor, the.
- [62:52]
Tim Bontemps
Cones factor reasoning changes from month to month. There's different, there's different, different criterion every time.
- [62:59]
Bam McMahon
No, it's, it's clutch and now we're.
- [63:00]
Tim Bontemps
Talking about hitting 50 footers.
- [63:02]
Bam McMahon
No, it's, it's, it's. This is clutch and swag and. Oh, let me. Oh, I can't believe. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Where does it rank? Okay, but little trivia like a grandfather right now.
- [63:15]
Tim Bontemps
Where is, where is my stuff in here? I can't find it because I closed.
- [63:18]
Bam McMahon
A bunch of windows. Because I looked and I was like, you have 96 windows open. I'm like, jesus. And then like, Honestly, like probably 22 of them were basketball reference. I'm like, okay, this is. I love basketball reference dot com. 22 basketball reference windows is probably just a little.
- [63:34]
Zach Lowe
No wonder the site's been running slow.
- [63:37]
Tim Bontemps
This is such a. I tried to open, I tried to open a page today. It didn't work.
- [63:41]
Bam McMahon
Alyssa August buzzer beater in NBA history. Anybody? Anybody? Anybody? It's recent.
- [63:47]
Tim Bontemps
No. No idea.
- [63:49]
Bam McMahon
It's recent. Devonte Graham hit a 61 foot.
- [63:52]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, yeah, right against the second longest.
- [63:54]
Bam McMahon
This one is much.
- [63:56]
Zach Lowe
What about Max? Didn't Max Strew sit like a seven?
- [63:58]
Tim Bontemps
Okay, yeah, against the, against the Cavs. That's right.
- [64:01]
Bam McMahon
Right in Tim Hardaway junior's face last year over, over the Mavericks. MAHMOUD Abdul Rau, 55ft. No, Dr. J, another one against the Mavericks, 53ft. Tyreek Evans, 50. And then you got Trey Young at 49ft.
- [64:19]
Tim Bontemps
So because he had the eighth longest one ever, he gets the, the silver, the brass.
- [64:24]
Bam McMahon
He also had 20 points on 10 field goals and 13 nut cut minutes. That's pretty big. Yeah, dude, you hit a 49, 13.
- [64:29]
Tim Bontemps
Minutes in the entire month.
- [64:31]
Bam McMahon
Nut cutting.
- [64:32]
Zach Lowe
No, in nut cutting.
- [64:33]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, just final three within. Within a bucket. But yeah, you hit a 49 footer, you're going to be a pretty damn at the buzzer. A 49 foot buzzer. But you're going to be.
- [64:42]
Zach Lowe
I'll tell you something. Trey, Trey, Trey got snubbed for the All Star Game. He's had a bunch of clutch baskets that he is. You can say a lot of stuff about Trey Young. He is not afraid.
- [64:53]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, he can't question those cojones. So he was the silver medalist here, the gold medal winner to be. He's. This guy's going to win a lot of awards in his career, but this will always be one of the best for him. You guys know I've had a fondness for this fellow for some time. Hold on. Yeah, he's. He, he's tall. He's also really, really good. Listen, man, I'm in Thompson to hit the game winner in Boston the way that he did where he just, I mean Jaylen Brown is still looking for his jockstrap because he just kind of snatched it back, went in that little floater also.
- [65:35]
Zach Lowe
IME Udoka calls that play out of the timeout for the rookie.
- [65:41]
Bam McMahon
Yes. Well, second year guy, but yes.
- [65:43]
Zach Lowe
Oh, you're right for the young guy. He makes it and he may. Strides just sort of gets his victory sniffs and strides off the court. It was, he just, he, he loved, he was reveling in that one.
- [65:55]
Bam McMahon
And you know, the other thing is.
- [65:57]
Zach Lowe
I don't think they've won since, by the way, but it was, it was great.
- [66:00]
Tim Bontemps
I don't know if it's a bold statement or not, but Amit Thompson is their best player and he needs to be a permanent member of the starting line no matter who is healthy.
- [66:08]
Bam McMahon
Well, we've said that like.
- [66:11]
Tim Bontemps
Well, I know, but it's just, I mean he's, he's ascended in the last.
- [66:15]
Bam McMahon
What was your bold statement?
- [66:17]
Tim Bontemps
No, I just, I, I think he's unquestionably now their best player.
- [66:21]
Bam McMahon
Well, I think it's going to be hot in Texas this summer.
- [66:25]
Tim Bontemps
I said I don't know if it's a bold statement or not. That's why I was, I was asking, I was seeing what your opinion was. As the Rockets expert, I would agree with that.
- [66:33]
Bam McMahon
And there are prominent people in, in Houston who would agree with that. The other thing that I really loved about that, Amen, first and foremost is a defensive stopper. He had just given up a bucket. I don't remember if it was Brown or Tatum, but you know, one of those guys had just been able to drive and finish over him. And anytime Amin gives up a bucket, like, he has to deal with the sneer and the stare and probably during a timeout some words from, from IME Udoka because, you know, as, as Rafael Stone told me and he makes mine, Amin should never get scored on.
- [67:13]
Zach Lowe
So the way Udoka is probably the most aggressive coach in the league at instantaneous accountability during times.
- [67:22]
Bam McMahon
So the way that he responds that he may is like, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually said, hey, you owe me one. I'm putting the ball in your hands. Go make something happen. And he did. He asked 13 points, 20 nut cutting minutes he makes plays all over the place.
- [67:38]
Zach Lowe
This might be his greatest honor thus far.
- [67:41]
Bam McMahon
So far, like I said, I mean, he's going to win a lot of them, but this is going to rank up there pretty high. Forever the gold medalist for the January Cajones Factor player.
- [67:51]
Zach Lowe
It's a special place in your heart. That's right. All right, special thank you to Jackson, our producer, for doing a lot of extra work this week with the extra emergency pods and whatnot. Thank you.
- [68:04]
Tim Bontemps
Jackson's the best.
- [68:05]
Zach Lowe
Thank you very much for listening to them. And it was a tough week for all of us. 3:00 Wake ups for me to go to go and get up Bon Temps.
- [68:15]
Tim Bontemps
Our lives are fine.
- [68:16]
Bam McMahon
We're not gonna like it.
- [68:19]
Tim Bontemps
We're not gonna whine about a heart.
- [68:22]
Zach Lowe
Am I whining? I'm not whining.
- [68:23]
Tim Bontemps
You said it's a tough week. It's not a tough week.
- [68:26]
Zach Lowe
It's a tough week anyway.
- [68:28]
Bam McMahon
Shut up, Bondemps.
- [68:29]
Zach Lowe
And. And you know, McMahon's traveled all over the place, given us a lot of extra coverage. Bond Times has travel all over the place. So thanks for the reason. I mean, I don't want to get all sappy. Here I am sleep deprived. But the reason we do it. The reason we do it is because we love the connection we have with you guys. And so we thank you for listening to us during the trade deadline season. I look forward to not talking about trades starting tomorrow.
- [68:59]
Bam McMahon
The reason I'm doing it is because I'm on a contract year and I got one kid in college now and three more on the way. I ain't sappy about nothing. I'm trying to get.
- [69:08]
Tim Bontemps
Man wants to be 10 toes down with new contract.
- [69:11]
Bam McMahon
Hey, I'm trying to get paid. Hey, pre order the wonder boy. I've got to scramble to write a final final chapter next week.
- [69:17]
Zach Lowe
I love the final. I love the final final.
- [69:20]
Tim Bontemps
Just throw in a random plug.
- [69:22]
Zach Lowe
All right, here comes. Here comes one more plug.
- [69:24]
Tim Bontemps
Ten toes down. Wherever you'll get paid, offers are open.
- [69:28]
Zach Lowe
Here's one more plug. Thanks for watching Hoop Collective presented by State Farm. We'll talk to you next week.
- [69:35]
Bam McMahon
Adios, amigos.