Giannis & Bucks At Odds Again & Wemby Makes Claim For MVP + Evaluating Tatum

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: Giannis & Bucks At Odds Again & Wemby Makes Claim For MVP + Evaluating Tatum

Date: March 25, 2026
Host/Panel: Brian Windhorst ("Wendy"), Tim Bontemps, Ben McMahon

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Episode Overview

This episode explores some of the most pressing issues in the NBA as the regular season winds down. Major topics include the escalating stand-off between Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks, Victor Wembanyama's bold MVP campaign, controversies around the 65-game awards eligibility rule (particularly for Cade Cunningham), the resurgence and playoff outlook for the Denver Nuggets and Oklahoma City Thunder, and a deep dive evaluating Jayson Tatum’s impact post-injury for the Celtics. The hosts provide reporting, context, and sharp opinions on these interconnected storylines shaping the NBA landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo & Milwaukee Bucks Rift

(Start around 02:20)

• Players Union Statement: The NBPA criticizes the Bucks' handling of Giannis’ playing status and player participation, indicating open discord between the star and the team.

  • Quote: “This to me is a sign of a player and a team, not only not on the same page, but not communicating because they are now communicating through the lawyers.” — Windhorst (03:18)

• Panel’s Take on the Situation:

  • Lack of Communication & Trust: McMahon and Bontemps emphasize the persistent organizational dysfunction and lack of direct, productive conversations between Giannis and Bucks’ leadership.
  • Impending Breakup: The panel is united in expecting Giannis to be traded this offseason, referencing his injuries and the Bucks’ need to reset.
    • Quote: “...the way this thing has played out, I think it's going to be best for everybody to just start fresh next season with Giannis somewhere else and a whole bunch of assets coming back to the Bucks for them to start a new era.” — McMahon (05:41)
  • No Illusions About Contention: The Bucks are a bad team even with Giannis on the floor, with asset deficits and no clear path forward. “They still owe Damian Lillard a ton of money...they owe Portland all the draft capital for that deal.” — Bontemps (06:46)
  • Bucks Governor's Position: West Edens publicly states Giannis will either extend or be traded before entering his contract's final year—underscoring looming major change.

• Final Sentiment: The saga is overdue for resolution. The panel points out Giannis’ legendary legacy in Milwaukee but asserts all sides “just need to move on.” (10:08–13:27)

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2. 65-Game Rule Controversy: Cade Cunningham’s Case

(13:28 onward)

• NBPA & Agent Protests: Following Cade Cunningham’s injury, the union argues the games-played threshold for award eligibility is unfair when legit injuries are involved.

  • Quote from agent Jeff Schwartz: “If he falls short of an arbitrary games played threshold due to a legitimate injury, it should not disqualify him from recognition he has clearly earned…” — (13:35)

• Panel Perspective:

  • Self-Inflicted Problem: The panel notes the rule was collectively bargained by the players. There’s already a carve-out for injury (if a player appears in 62 games), which Cade does not meet.
  • No Precedent for Special Exceptions: The NBA is unlikely to change or bend the rule on a case-by-case basis, citing prior hard situations (e.g., Victor Wembanyama’s DPOY eligibility the previous year).
  • Rule is Working: McMahon and Bontemps agree the rule has succeeded in getting more stars on the court, which was the intent.
    • Quote: “The harsh truth of the rule and the dirty secret of it is it's working. The rule is working. Guys are playing in more games. That's why it's not changing. It's why it exists.” — McMahon (17:46)

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3. Victor Wembanyama’s MVP Candidacy & Self-Advocacy

(22:27 onward)

• Wembanyama’s Public Case: Wemby boldly claims his MVP case in a press appearance, citing his defensive dominance and the Spurs’ head-to-head record over rival contenders like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) and the Thunder.

  • Quote: “...not afraid to extol his own virtue...Extol his own virtue and take a little jab at a team and a franchise and a player that could be a decade plus long rival...” — Bontemps (23:00)
  • Quote: “The most dominant defense player by far. There is no question the gap between Wimby and the next best defensive player is much more significant than the gap between the best offensive player and number two.” — Bontemps paraphrasing Wemby (25:11)
  • Panel notes Wemby’s candor and lack of subtlety, uncommon among MVP candidates.

• MVP Standings & Straw Polls:

  • Current media consensus and betting odds still have SGA as the likely MVP if OKC finishes with the best record. Panelists debate their own ballots, with Bontemps listing his: Shay, Wimby, Luka, Joker.
    • Quote: “I would have Shay, Wimby, Luka, Joker in that order…” — Bontemps (29:19)
  • Wembanyama’s case hinges on catching the Thunder in the standings; otherwise, SGA’s team success will likely be the tiebreaker.

• Wemby’s Impact: The panel waxes on Wembanyama’s on-court dominance, two-way value, and entertainment factor.

  • Quote: “He makes me crack up laughing multiple times a game...is willing to grab the microphone and very eloquently beat his chest and say I'm the baddest bleep on the in the damn league.” — Bontemps (31:06)

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4. Thunder, Nuggets & Playoff Landscape

(33:35 onward)

• Thunder’s Health and Dominance:

  • Thunder nearly at full health for the first time; their “best nine” have only played together five or six times this season.
  • Stunning combined regular season record over two years with their optimal starting lineup: 125–29. They’ve maintained an 80% win rate despite injuries.
    • Quote: “...they have won over 80% of their games the last two years with all these injuries.” — Bontemps (35:51)
  • “If this Thunder team is fully healthy, they should beat everybody.” — Bontemps (37:43)
  • Nuggets and Spurs still credible threats, but healthy Thunder should be favorites.

• Nuggets & Lakers Seeding Race:

  • Nuggets (finally healthy) control their destiny for the No. 4 seed with a homestand and some variable matchups—to be decided with OKC & Spurs in season’s final week. Lakers could move into 3rd if they handle an easy upcoming schedule.

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5. Jayson Tatum’s Return: Evaluating Impact

(42:27 onward)

• Celtics’ Offense & Tatum’s Sluggishness:

  • Return has slightly dampened the offense and led to talk, fueled by Tracy McGrady and First Take segments, that Tatum’s reintegration might be harming the team flow.
  • Panel considers this “idiotic,” highlighting that Tatum replacing Jordan Walsh in the rotation is an obvious value add, even if his shooting and mobility aren’t yet fully back.
    • Quote: “Jason Tatum has essentially replaced Jordan Walsh in the Celtics rotation. There is no world where the Celtics are worse off with Jordan Walsh playing instead of Jason Tatum.” — Bontemps (43:35)
  • Ultimate question: Will Tatum round into near All-NBA form by April/May or remain limited? That would determine Boston’s ceiling.

• Notable Tatum Quote:

  • “I didn't know how this blank was going to be. It's tough in the moment. You try not to think about it. You just want to be Jason Tatum and feel like yourself again. But I'm not Superman. So it's obviously going to take some time…” — Tatum on his return from Achilles, recounted by Bontemps (47:00)

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6. Cavs Corner & East Playoff Crunch

(48:35 onward)

• Jared Allen’s Impending Return: Could swing the tight 2–4 seeds among Celtics, Knicks, Cavs. Various tanking implications and Cavs’ ability to jockey for their preferred first-round matchup noted.
  • Quote: “Jared Allen might be coming back soon. All right, thank you so much to McMahon and Bontemps…” — Windhorst (50:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On player communication breakdown:
  “...not only not on the same page, but not communicating because they are now communicating through the lawyers.” — Windhorst (03:18)
• On Bucks-Giannis divorce:
  “The story is beyond played out...it’s going to be best for everybody to just start fresh next season with Giannis somewhere else...” — McMahon (05:41)
• On the 65-game rule:
  “The harsh truth of the rule and the dirty secret of it is it's working. The rule is working. Guys are playing in more games. That's why it's not changing.” — McMahon (17:46)
• On Wembanyama’s self-advocacy:
  “Extol his own virtue and take a little jab at a team and a franchise and a player that could be a decade plus long rival…” — Bontemps (23:00)
• On Thunder’s overwhelming talent and health:
  “If this Thunder team is fully healthy, they should beat everybody.” — Bontemps (37:43)
• On Tatum’s return:
  “There is no world where the Celtics are worse off with Jordan Walsh playing instead of Jason Tatum.” — Bontemps (43:35)
  “You just want to be Jayson Tatum and feel like yourself again. But I’m not Superman. So it’s obviously going to take some time...” — Jayson Tatum (as quoted by Bontemps, 47:00)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:20 – Giannis/Bucks union statement and discussion
• 04:05–13:27 – Breakdown of Bucks’ organizational dysfunction, player/team communication
• 13:28–19:44 – 65-game rule debate and Cade Cunningham’s situation
• 22:27–32:00 – Wembanyama’s MVP campaigning & panel MVP ballots/results
• 33:35–41:00 – Thunder’s playoff standing, injury updates, and title favorite discussion; Nuggets/Lakers bracket outlook
• 42:27–48:35 – Jayson Tatum’s return and evaluation, Celtics ceiling
• 48:35–50:54 – Cavs, Knicks, Celtics eastern seed crunch and schedule scenarios

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Style & Tone

Throughout, the hosts are candid, insightful, and occasionally irreverent, switching easily between reporting, analysis, and humor. They pull no punches regarding the state of the Bucks or the implications of the awards eligibility rules, while celebrating the boldness (and entertainment value) of Wembanyama’s stardom and the Thunder’s execution.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode delivers a comprehensive, straight-talking update on the league’s messiest stories (Giannis/Bucks), hottest debates (awards rules), and the electrifying playoff race, with the panel’s usual blend of reporting, opinion, and locker-room banter. If you want to understand the shifting tides as the NBA regular season ends—and why some stars’ fates are out of their hands—this is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Wendy Williams]

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[Ben McMahon]

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[Wendy Williams]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Tuesday evening. Joining us from Madison Square Garden, sitting in the Mike Brown seat. But I actually, you know, he kind of, with that face he's got on there, he looks like Tom Thibodeau. It's Tim Bottles.

[Ben McMahon]

Hello, everybody.

[Wendy Williams]

The Pelicans and Knicks game is going on right now as we, as we tape this, so we'll see what happens there. The Knicks are going for seven in a row. Joining us from down the street here in Los Angeles is Ben McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

Howdy, partners. It was a pleasure to get dinner with Wendy last night, even though he made us split the check bond temps.

[Wendy Williams]

Well, let's see what happens tonight.

[Ben McMahon]

That is some disappointing behavior. Disappointing behavior.

[Wendy Williams]

By the way, today McMahon and I were on NBA Today and during one of the blocks of the show, McMahon and I were off. I believe it was about WNBA. It was a WNBA segment.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct.

[Wendy Williams]

We're all so mic'd up and you know, Marissa is doing an interview. What?

[Tim Bontemps]

This was, this was during the commercial break. Just go on. You can continue, but I want that fact out now.

[Wendy Williams]

Okay, fine. It was during the commercial break. Was I saying it differently?

[Tim Bontemps]

You were acting as if it was mid show. Go on.

[Wendy Williams]

Anyway, we stay wired up even though we're not on the air.

[Ben McMahon]

Right.

[Wendy Williams]

So bontemps. We're sitting there in the break and all of a sudden we, we start hearing water running and the sound of paper towels being dispensed. The producer Jaron goes, I think we're hearing McMahon in the bathroom.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was a naked gun.

[Ben McMahon]

Well done.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey, it was a fastball, not a curveball. Everybody relaxed

[Wendy Williams]

Anyway, okay, speaking of fastballs, the players union issued a few edicts on Tuesday.

[Tim Bontemps]

Little brushback pitch.

[Wendy Williams]

Yeah. Which, you know, this doesn't happen often. Bontemps. So the first one was in relation to Giannis Tennikounmpo. And as was been out there reported over the last few days, Giannis, he's coming back. He's dealing with a knee injury right now. The bucks have about 10 or 11 games left and Giannis would like to play when he's healthy and the Bucs do not want him to play. And there was a statement made by the Players Association. Now, part of this statement is about tanking and I'm going to ignore those things about the tanking because we don't talk about tanking here. However, this part is relevant. The player participation policy was designed by the league to hold teams accountable and ensure that when an all star like Giannis Zenokounmpo is healthy and ready to play, he is on the court. Unfortunately, anti tanking policies are only as effective in there as their enforcement. Fans, broadcast partners and the integrity of the game will continue to suffer as long as ownership goes unchecked. Bond temps as long as ownership goes unchecked. That is an interesting word, ownership. This to me is a sign of a player and a team, not only not on the same page, but not communicating because they are now communicating through the lawyers. And I don't think this is a good sign in any way, shape or form. And I do not think that this season has been an exemplary way of handling business by the Bucs organization, including Mr. Antetokounmpo.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, I mean, I don't really have a lot else to add. I mean, what has changed about the situation in months? Not really anything. Right. There's been a lack of communication. There's been a lack of mutual trust. I would say there's been a lack of organizational alignment. I mean, there's just. It's just a complete mess and it's been a complete mess for months and months and months. And, you know, I don't think that's going to change in the next three weeks. You know, I would say to Giannis, I think there's. He should take the next three weeks and not play. This is a guy who's had, I think, four different calf strains over the last year and a half or two years. He should get his body right. The but the, the part of the problem here is I think the Bucks have not really had an ability to sit down with Giannis and have frank, productive conversations with him for an extended period now. And I think that's part of why the situation is where it is. Like you sit down with Giannis today and say, listen, the future pretty clearly should be for us to shake hands in the summertime and to send you to another place where you have a chance to win. And we can turn the page into what's been an incredible run with you being the best player we've ever had here in Milwaukee. And we'll Celebrate you then we'll celebrate you after that and there'll be a statue and there'll be a jersey in the rafters. And you brought us our first title in 50 years. It was an incredible thing. Put up a 50 piece in the siding game at home. It was one of the great finals close out games we've seen in a very long time. And all that will be celebrated. But right now we're in a position where we're trying to maximize our future over the next three weeks and we need to maximize your future over the next three weeks. And I, I think the ultimate problem with everything that's gone on in Milwaukee for months now is an inability to have that kind of conversation. And that's why statements are being made. That's why this thing has been so messy. And it's why I think I speak for everybody when we're all just pretty tired of it. Like, it's just the story is beyond played out and the team isn't going anywhere. And, you know, I think sometimes there is a bit of a rush for people to try to get guys out of town and to change teams and go somewhere new. But the way this thing has played out, I think it's going to be best for everybody to just start fresh next season with Giannis somewhere else and a whole bunch of assets coming back to the Bucks for them to start a new era of their franchise.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, this has been a saga that's played out for over eight years, right? Like literally, you go back to when the Mavericks drafted Luca, the last pick of that draft. They took Costa San and Kupo because they were among these several teams trying to line up to land Giannis in free agency when he left Milwaukee. They now to the Bucks credit that time with the Drew Holiday trade and on multiple other occasions, they were able to make moves to get Giannis to extend, get Giannis to commit, you know, and the Jrue Holiday move in particular was a move that was able to bump them into being a real championship, not just contender, but a championship team. So, but like, there's no more moves to make that are going to make the Bucs a championship team. There's no more moves to make that are going to make the Bucks relevant in terms of like anything right now in the NBA. They're not a good team. They are way underwater in terms of assets. They still not only owe Damian Lillard a ton of money after stretching and waving him, but they owe Portland all the draft capital for that deal. They have to finally trade Giannis not because he wants out, which, you know, obviously he does. He just isn't willing to come to them and say that they have to trade them because they're in purgatory right now. Their only chance to dig out is to get real value for him. Which means it is in their best interest to shut Giannis down for the season, not to tank to protect him from catastrophic injury, which is clearly the concern with these repeated calf strains. The guy needs some real significant time off to rest and fully recover and to, if not eliminate the risk, at least really drop the risk. But like the tanking thing, that's a completely disingenuous mention of tanking because it's a hot button issue. Because really, if the Bucks tank the rest of the season, there's barely any benefit. Oh, whoa. Instead of being 10th, they'll be 9th. They're tied right now for 9th with the Bulls. The team they would catch, possibly would be the Pelicans, which, by the way, the Bucks get the worst of those two picks anyway. And let me just also add, the Bucks stink with Giannis on the court. The Bucks are a bad team. They've lost nine and 12 with Giannis on the floor. It's not like, oh, my gosh, if Giannis came back, the Bucks would win

[Ben McMahon]

a bunch of games.

[Wendy Williams]

No, they wouldn't.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a bad team that needs to move on despite. And they're bad despite the fact that they've got an all time great. He needs to move on. They need to move on. And we can talk again about the Bucs when they become relevant in like 2032.

[Wendy Williams]

Last week, Ramona Shelburne published a story where she interviewed Buck's governor, Wes Edens, where he said, quote, giannis is going into the last year of his contract. So one of two things will happen. Either he will be extended or he'll be traded. The likelihood that you'll let him play out the last year, we can't afford that. It's not consistent with what's good for the organization. That's not a Giannis issue. That's any player that's in their last year of their contract, especially a max player. This is an elementary statement. It's not like a hot take or whatever. It's how any team would treat this. But Bontemps, what struck me about that quote, which I'll bring, come back to it, now that Giannis is communicating with the Bucs through the players union, wouldn't they have a good idea whether Giannis was going to extend or not? Like they would, you know, like, you just ask him, are you going to extend?

[Ben McMahon]

Well, and I think that that's, again, I think it goes back to the fundamental disconnect that existed here for quite a while. There's just not been a lot of communication, I think, between Giannis and the Bucks. And I think that's where, you know, going into this off season, I think that's what has to start to change. Like, they've got to sit down and it probably should start today. Like, should sit down and have real honest conversations about where this thing is going and what they're doing and what the plan is. Because, like I said, the best thing for Giannis is to get himself healthy. I want to see Giannis out on the court doing awesome stuff and playing at the highest level, which he showed this year when he was on the court again. He's still one of the five best players on the planet. He's still an unstoppable force with the ball and in transition. He still is a guy who can make game changing plays on the defensive end. He's still a guy that can be a massively important piece of, of a championship level team in the league. But that situation is not going to be in Milwaukee. It's not going to be in the final 10 games of the season when they have no chance to do anything right. Playoffs. And, and I also think, like, yeah, it, it stinks in general that the tanking conversation includes things like, it's not good for the Bucks to have a guy like Giannis play in a vacuum. Like, yeah, that's true. But right now, for where the Bucks are at, the goal for everybody involved should be for giannis to be 1000% healthy going into the off season. And it should be for the Bucks to be able to start to reorient this franchise about the next era of its existence. Because the bottom line is they've been on borrowed time the last couple of years trying to drag this thing out, and it's been laid out before. There's just no path to this team having a chance to be competitive in the east. Not, not right now and not as we move forward with some of these young teams continuing to get better. And it's just time for everybody to move on. And again, that conversation about that has to start now. And it has to start with, you know, like you said, go right back to what Wes Eden said last week, get an answer to that question, and then move forward.

[Tim Bontemps]

You know, the only thing I would say is, why do you need an answer to that question, because I don't think extending Giannis is in the buck's best interest. So you can do what? Be expensive and mediocre?

[Ben McMahon]

Well, listen, if Giannis Tenno announced, I want to spend my whole career in Milwaukee, I would understand if the Milwaukee Bucks said, okay, we're going to have Giannis Tenno spend his entire career in Milwaukee, we'll try to be as competitive as possible. I don't think that would be a bad thing for giannis or the NBA or the Bucks. I think to your point, though, McMahon, everybody's been dancing around the idea that Giannis is not thrilled to be in Milwaukee for a long time, and that is where it's a problem. If Giannis was going to stand up and say, hey, listen, I'm going to be in Milwaukee my whole career, I'm happy like Dirk did, basically, like, yeah, it was clear Dirk, similar careers, right? Won a title. Sound like he has to go try to chase a ring somewhere because he hasn't done that. If he just stood up and said, hey, listen, I love my time in Milwaukee. I want to spend my whole career with one team. I want to try to be as competitive as we possibly can be. You know, let's. Let's just go forward and try to be competitive and see what we can do. That would at least be a clear direction for the franchise to go forward. I get all that, but we're not hearing that.

[Wendy Williams]

I just. It's more to me about what the lack of communication shows about the underlying situation there. That's what I'm taking away from today.

[Ben McMahon]

Yes, I agree.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do you think Ramona will remember her conversation with the Wes Edens? I know those tend to be forgettable, according to some folks.

[Wendy Williams]

The reference that McMahon is making there is that at the beginning of the season, Eden said he had this very crucial conversation with Giannis last spring after the season. And then when Yas was asked about it, he said he had no recollection. So. All right. The union made a second statement on Tuesday. Unusual to get two statements in a day. This one is in reference to Cade Cunningham. Cade Cunningham's potential ineligibility for postseason awards after a career defining season is a clear indictment of the 65 game rule and yet another example of why it must be abolished. A reform to create an exception for significant injuries. It went on, but I'm going to cut it short. Also, Jeff Schwartz gave the following quote. Jeff Schwartz is a power agent who represents Cade. This is said to Shams. Cade has delivered a first team. All NBA season. If he falls short of an arbitrary games played threshold due to due to a legitimate injury, it should not disqualify him from recognition he has clearly earned over the course of the season, et cetera, et cetera. He finishes with an exception needs to be made. Okay, I just want to say a couple of things here. I am bummed that Cade potentially will miss out on these awards. I don't think he's going to play in the regular season.

[Ben McMahon]

He technically seems very obvious he's not going to play. Yeah, let's just be honest. These statements would not be coming out if Cade was going to play.

[Wendy Williams]

Correct. He has played 61 games. However, the 61st game he played four minutes. I don't know if they would count

[Ben McMahon]

that because I can tell you they would not count it. He's 60 games played for awards.

[Wendy Williams]

So there is a specification in the CBA where if you suffer a season ending injury and have played 62 games you could qualify for the postseason awards. Yeah, I don't. He doesn't qualify. So I mean that's the exception that could be made, I guess. Well, that is.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean the thing about this that I would say is silly is one, the players association collectively bargained this rule with the NBA several years ago in the last cba. So they agreed to the rules. Two, there is literally a carve out in the rules for an injury like this. It's if you play 62 games and this happens, if Kate had played in two more games, he would have been eligible for awards. Now I agree with you. It's very unfortunate that Cade has had this tremendous season and is going to miss out on getting onto one of the all NBA teams and to be on MVP ballots because he would have been on MVP ballots and he would have either been the top of the second team or a first team all NBA player. He's had a phenomenal season. But the rule exists because the NBA put the rule in with the PA's approval several years ago. And no, they're not going to create an exception for it. Just like they didn't create an exception for it to give Victor defense player of the year last year. Just like they are not going to give an exception if Nikola Jokic misses two more games and falls below 65 games. Like the rule exists. And like we could sit here and say it's dumb that we have to decide. We get it decided for us who we can vote for as opposed to being able to decide if we're going to vote for Cade or not. But the Rule is what it is. And the idea that you're just going to arbitrarily create a rule because Cade had an unfortunate, a change in the rule because Kate had an unfortunate injury is just not how reality works.

[Tim Bontemps]

This unfortunately is completely out of the spirit of the rules. Spirit of the rules. That load management had become such a, an issue for the league and a public relations issue. A honestly a disservice to fans issue. This is not a load management issue with Cade. Clearly. Also, like when you're the primary reason that your team is the number one seed in the Eastern Conference like this, it's a tough pill to swallow. Under the rule though, there's like, there's no wiggle room. You know, Mark Falwell, who's the longtime mass play by play guys doing some play by play with NBC and Peacock, he, he's been on a, on a little rampage, is too strong. But you know, he's made the point several times on social media. Hey, the cutoff for league leaders, you know, the scoring title, you know, assist title, rebound title, etcetera, is 58 games. Why is it 65 games for awards but 58 games to win a scoring title?

[Ben McMahon]

Very simple reason. Because the NBA fought to put this rule in because they wanted star players to play in more games. And guess what? The harsh truth of the rule and the dirty secret of it is it's working. The rule is working. Guys are playing in more games. That's why it's not changing. It's why it exists. Like, I don't think, I think we'd all agree, I don't think it was a coincidence to Cole Jokic came back from this bone bruise.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh no.

[Ben McMahon]

After missing 16 games. It's not a, you know, Victor Wembanyama has played in dozens of games in a row now and hasn't missed any games because he's three or four games

[Tim Bontemps]

away from Wemby did miss one game against the Nuggets, but they know exactly where he is.

[Wendy Williams]

Wembley has come out and said he doesn't want to miss any games for the award purpose. That's right.

[Ben McMahon]

These guys want and look, I, I'm not saying I, I, I'm not talking about whether I think the rule should exist. I, I've made my points on that in the past. I think Pete, the, the media has always done a very good job of deciding where the line is and how much guys have played. I don't think we need a rule to decide that. However, that's why the NBA fought for this rule. They fought for it to be 65 games. They fought to put it in because they wanted to have incentive for guys to be playing their start, the star players to play more and the star players are playing more. And it is very unfortunate for Cade and frankly I'm really happy that this is not a year ago when Cade qualified for the supermax and it would have been extremely unfortunate if something like this happened and it cost him tens of millions of dollars like that. I would have really felt bad if that happened. But look, we also saw Tyrese Halliburton two years ago limp through the second half of the season playing 22 minutes a game in a bunch of games to be eligible to get his own supermax.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh by the way, Wimby. Remember when Wimby came back from his extended absence early in the season, his minutes limit was 20. That was not picked out of the

[Ben McMahon]

Speaking of speaker, the reason why that's the number is because that that's the limit they've set for the game to count for towards the 65 games.

[Wendy Williams]

Speaking of that, you may remember that Cade Cunningham did sign a contract extension a couple of years ago. He did hit the supermax provision. He made third team All NBA last year, got a $45 million bonus. So while he wants this because he's he's, he feels and he's correct that he has earned first team all NBA for sure this would be different if he was trying to get that money. I think that would be a different situation. But that money is secure More Hoop

[Tim Bontemps]

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[Wendy Williams]

Victor Wembanyama. He controlled the discourse of the NBA on Tuesday because he went on, I mean he didn't grab the microphone and announce the reasons why he should be mvp. He was asked a question, why, what his case was for mvp. But he had answers ready and he, you know, as we've talked about with Victor, not afraid to extol his own virtue. Is that artfully said or ruffle some feathers?

[Tim Bontemps]

Extol his own virtue and take a little jab at a team and a franchise and a player that could be a decade plus long rival of the Spurs.

[Wendy Williams]

Well, it wasn't just him. He definitely is sort of trolling, I guess you could say Che, Gildas, Alexander by saying that they went 4 and 1 against him during the season.

[Ben McMahon]

But he also trolling, I mean is that part trolling?

[Tim Bontemps]

It's, it's, it's truthful. It's truthful. Yeah.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean that, I mean I'll just, I'm not, I mean I've said, as I've said many times, Victor is not afraid to be wildly arrogant in a matter of fact way, I would say that's just being very matter of fact that they won four out of five against like if you are, if it does get down to a Victor versus Shea one and two, like yeah, I think an argument in his corner is they won four out of the five games.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it's just, it takes you back a little bit to hear a guy be that blunt and point it out

[Ben McMahon]

like, whoa, yeah, as I said to

[Tim Bontemps]

somebody last night west finals might have just gotten a little bit even more interesting.

[Ben McMahon]

As I said to somebody last night, as the person who has done the straw poll now for several years, there are all sorts of people who lobby about MVP awards and awards in general. We just, the last segment, we talked about this whole thing with Kate Cunningham. Very rarely do you see someone on camera, on the record, completely lay out their position. Well done.

[Wendy Williams]

Earlier this year when he's like, I'm the best player in the league.

[Ben McMahon]

Jalen did that. But that it's, it's rare. Usually this is done in a little more subtle manner. But Victor, Victor doesn't do a lot of things subtly, either on the court or off the court. And this is the latest example of that.

[Wendy Williams]

I will say this. Don't you think that this will, like, you're not going to do this draw poll for a little bit here, but it would be fascinating if you did the straw poll two days ago and then you did another one today. I don't know.

[Ben McMahon]

I don't, I don't think it's changing.

[Wendy Williams]

Oh, I don't think it's changing who's in the lead.

[Ben McMahon]

I think, I don't, I don't think Victor giving a post game speech is changing a lot of votes.

[Wendy Williams]

I wish you were wrong, but I, I mean, I wish you were right, but I'm afraid you're wrong.

[Tim Bontemps]

You know, the other, like, listen, none of this matters if Wimby's not just absolutely dominating and he absolutely dominated the Miami 83 years in a complete blowout win. But, but seriously, like the guy. Okay, let's just let, let's look at what he says. The most dominant defense player by far. There is no question the, the gap between Wimby and the next best defensive player is much more significant than the gap between the best offensive player and number two.

[Wendy Williams]

By the way, is he trolling, Is he trolling Shea, saying Shea doesn't defend, or is he saying that about Luca and Jokic?

[Tim Bontemps]

On that one, I think he's. I, I'd take him, I take that one at face value. Hey, defense is half the game and I'm okay. And he's by far the most dominant.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. What?

[Wendy Williams]

He's trolling everybody. Because I don't think he's.

[Ben McMahon]

I don't think.

[Wendy Williams]

I think that's just fine. Use a different verb. He's. I'm just stunk.

[Ben McMahon]

I think he's making his argument is

[Tim Bontemps]

valuable defensively that you have to consider that as having.

[Wendy Williams]

In reference to the other MVP candidates. That's the undercurrent of what he's saying.

[Ben McMahon]

Sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

That his value on defense way. Basically his case is my value on defense way outweighs the difference in any of these guys value offensively versus mine. And he's, you know, his thing on offense is it's not just scoring points, basically talking about his gravity and some of the other things he does. And then the stuff about we beat the Thunder four out of five, basically he's a basic swept but three times at full strength. Three.

[Ben McMahon]

That's.

[Tim Bontemps]

That is him saying, hey, Shay's the favorite now, but when we played I mopped the floor with it with Shane and the defending champions and that's him

[Ben McMahon]

trying to make up for the biggest thing that I think is going to prevent him from winning the award, which is that the Thunder, who we'll talk about later, have gone 15 and one since the all Star break with a bunch of guys out and have stayed ahead of the 16 and two spurs since the All Star break have kept this three game lead and are now very likely to to have the best record in the league and the best record in the Western Conference. And as we said the whole time, if Victor and the spurs were able to get ahead of the Thunder and finish the season with the best record in the Western Conference, I think there was a very real chance Victor was going to be the MVP of the league. I think if Shay stays ahead and the Thunder win the west, particularly with the amount of injuries the Thunder have had and the season Che has had, I think Chase winning a second straight and Wimpy says the part where Victor is trying to take out the wind

[Wendy Williams]

and this is Dr. McMahon speaking.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, but I agree.

[Wendy Williams]

Can I say something real quick?

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure.

[Wendy Williams]

I believe Dr. MVP there said when the before the last draw poll came out, I think Wembanyama was 35 to 1 on DraftKings. Is that correct?

[Ben McMahon]

I believe that was right. And I said at the time that that was a ridiculous line and people should bet it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, he's down 18 to 1 now, so rare win.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean that's, that's way too high.

[Wendy Williams]

I still think 18 to 1 is pretty good on DraftKings.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would have him second on my ballot behind Shay. I would have Luka third. Wimby, you had Joker third. But whatever.

[Ben McMahon]

Wait a second, wait a second. Put a pin in that for a second. So you, you have Jokic out of the top three?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Because honestly, dude, if we're going to value winning, then it's hard for me to make a case For Joker over Luka when Luka's leading the league in scoring with remarkable efficiency, filling out the box score, holding up frankly pretty well defensively, making plays defensively, holding a much better defensive than the Jokers.

[Ben McMahon]

If we want to be horsed. What is happening here?

[Tim Bontemps]

Dude, the guys, the guys got, we've

[Ben McMahon]

got some, some Luca pom poms out here.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's no Luca pom poms. I've got half, I've still got half a Slovenian and certain segments.

[Ben McMahon]

Los Angeles and Dallas got to be frame. But no, but seriously, the wonder boy, go buy it.

[Tim Bontemps]

But my point is like if his team's third in the standings and he's got that kind of statistical case and Joker's team is, you know what, they might end up fourth. But there's significantly, you know, there's a significant gap and Joker has not played his typical level of basketball since coming back from the injury.

[Wendy Williams]

So he remains leading the league in rebounding, assists.

[Tim Bontemps]

He is a first team all NBA. No brainer. He's an absolutely historically dominant player. But we're talking about, you know, we're splitting hairs here and I again, you asked me what my ballot would be. I would have Shay, Wimby, Luka, Joker in that order and fifth at this point.

[Wendy Williams]

I'd probably put Jen and Brown to this moment updated draftkings line. Shay is minus 1,000.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, there's been some. Okay.

[Wendy Williams]

Luka plus 1,000.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's 10 to 1.

[Wendy Williams]

That's Luke. That's Laker fan.

[Ben McMahon]

Those odds are poor.

[Wendy Williams]

Wemby plus 1300. So 13 to 1.

[Tim Bontemps]

Joker plus 4500. Yeah, but so Wemby says.

[Wendy Williams]

I don't think a bet on Luka or Jokic at especially Luka at that number is a good bet. But Wendy could still. I still think Shea is going to win, but Wemby could overtake him. They could have a bad 10 days and it could happen.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think right now there is a debate. There should be. Even though I think I should lead the race. I'm trying to make sure that at the end of the season there's no debate. That's what Wimby said. Frankly, it's not within his power to make sure there's no debate because the only way there's. I think you can make a reasonable case that there's not a debate is if the spurs overtake the Thunder in the standings. And that means the Thunder have to lose a few games. Even like the spurs winning out the thunderstorm. Lose a few games and they're not the Thunder are, and they've been out of season and haven't been losing anyway.

[Wendy Williams]

No. Well, I'll tell you what I like the fact that it's late March and this is still up in the air and it could still go each way at the end of the day, that's what I really like more than anything.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I love that Wimby is so damn entertaining. I tell you guys, he makes me crack up laughing multiple times a game just because he does things that are so ridiculous and then is willing to grab the microphone and very eloquently beat his chest and say I'm the baddest bleep on the in the damn league. More Hoop Collective podcast after this Save

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[Wendy Williams]

Okay, so the Denver Nuggets over the weekend they play the Portland Trail Blazers. Their injury report was empty. That's right, the Nuggets who have been banged and battered and had four starters at a times this year fully healthy. As we record this, they play Phoenix Tuesday night. Peyton Watson is sitting out of that game because they have a back to back and he's not going to play in back to backs coming off the hamstring. Additionally over the weekend or I guess was on Monday Jalen Williams in Oklahoma City returned and for the Thunders game on Wednesday. I can't remember who they're playing.

[Ben McMahon]

They're in Boston play the Celtics.

[Wendy Williams]

Oh that's right. Big game.

[Tim Bontemps]

There you go.

[Wendy Williams]

Clean injury report.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean relatively clean injury report. In terms of the rotation players.

[Ben McMahon]

Their rotation players are all available for, for one of the first times this season. I think it's, I think it might be the, it's, it's under five times they've had their top nine players all available.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean their starting lineup they've had six times all season.

[Wendy Williams]

Right.

[Ben McMahon]

Listen, I, I was doing it. I was at this game last night. I wrote, I wrote a story about Jay Lee's coming back which I'll get to the overall number about it in a second. But McMahon indicated something to me while we were, I was getting ready for the, the, the to write the story that I wanted to just highlight. So McMahon to set this up, how many times did the Thunders starting five that started last night which is Shaggy Ellis, Alexander, Lou Dort, Jalen Williams, Isaiah Hardenstein and Chad Holmgren. How many times did they play together last season?

[Tim Bontemps]

Believe it was 14.

[Ben McMahon]

It was 14 times plus the playoffs last year.

[Tim Bontemps]

14 times in the regular season.

[Ben McMahon]

About the regular season. So last season the Oklahoma City Thunder had their preferred starting lineup start. 14 times they went 68 and 14. This year they've had their preferred starting lineup. They're like if everybody southeast, here's who they're starting play six times all season. Their combined record over those two seasons together when you add it up is 125 and 29. And that's with having massive health issues

[Tim Bontemps]

both seasons and last year. Last year Chet missed over half the season. This year Jalen Williams missed over half the season.

[Ben McMahon]

These are max players. They have had key, they've had several key rotation players out for stretches of time of both last season and this season and they've won over 80% of their games. It's just a, it's unbelievable and it I do think speaks to the fact that going into the playoffs we just got done talking about Victor. Victor is amazing. The spurs have had an unbelievable season. The Thunder play in Boston. Jason Tatum's back. We're going to talk about him. They're having a great season. There's all these interesting teams at top to east. We'll see what happens with the Lakers and their late surge. We'll see what happens with Denver. Nicole Yic we'll see what happens with Anthony Edwards and the Wolves. The Oklahoma City Thunder, if they are healthy in the playoffs, should be the gigantic favorites to win the title again and it's going to be a huge disappointment if they don't because this team is the deepest team in the league. I think they have the best player in the league and again they have won 80% of their games the last two years with all these injuries. So we haven't had a repeat title team in eight years and that streak should end this spring. And if it doesn't, the Thunder will have given it away in some form or fashion.

[Tim Bontemps]

I, I, I agree with everything until you said they will give it away because listen, the Nuggets, who are also healthy, damn near took it from him last year. It went to 7 and 7. Aaron Gordon was playing on a hamstring that I can't believe he played on. It was a blowout in game seven but still they pushed him seven games. And listen man, I know the spurs don't have a single second of playoff experience as a group, but as Victor Wimanyama said, San Antonio dominated that season series and Wimby is a problem that I don't care who it is, Oklahoma City, Denver Lakers. Wimby is a problem that's going to be hard to solve in a seven game series.

[Ben McMahon]

That's fair. I will just quickly point out two things before Brian jumps in. I thought it was really interesting last night hearing Jalen Williams talk after the game and he got asked about what's the difference between this year and last year for them and he talked about their experience and he said, I thought it was always kind of silly in the past when people talked about you feel different after you won. But I could tell you this year after we won we're a lot more confident and it's really a real thing and we feel it It's a much different feeling having gone through it. And the other thing I'll say is he, and you've chronicled this all year, McMahon, he was adamant. His wrist is a hundred percent and is totally back to normal and he's totally healthy. And you know, I, somebody a few weeks ago compared this year's Thunder team to last year's Pacers team, which had sort of a similar path through the season where they had all these injuries and they never had anybody healthy until right about now and they got in the playoffs and they were fully healthy when it mattered and they took off. And I just think if this Thunder team is fully healthy, they should beat everybody. And if they don't, yes, you're right. Victor's incredible. Like something like that might happen. But I think we'll look back on them losing if they're healthy as them giving games away rather than somebody taking it from them. Based off to me, the talent advantage they should have on everybody else.

[Tim Bontemps]

The risk thing's a big deal because he missed the first 19 games. We all remember he put off the surgery until after the playoffs. He missed the first 19 games and then he shot it really poorly because he still didn't have full range of motion coming back off of that. And when he came back, it was just before the All Star break had covered the game here in la. When he came back and he said that night, he was like, my wrist feels much better just because I was able to do things with it. Not playing games, recovering from this hamstring injury, that just helped a lot. And then the next game in Phoenix, he made his first 11 shots from the floor.

[Ben McMahon]

28. 28 points in 20 minutes. And then he hurt his hamstring and missed another six weeks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right. And so I'm not surprised to hear him say that the wrist feels as good as it has. And you know, if he with if he's shooting the ball well and he's back to being that big time number two offensive option, that's huge. And don't tell him. I don't want to hear how good the Thunder's record is without Jalen Williams is if that's some kind of knock against him. If you watch the playoffs last year, I don't need to sit here and tell you how important he is to their hopes of winning the championship.

[Wendy Williams]

Yes. And this is the thing. I don't know where to put the line because I want to honor what I think is an incredible phenomenon happening with Victor Wembanyama and that he can be the type of player who can overcome. I mean, really, one of the definitions of superstar for me is can you lead your team to a series where you don't have the better team? Which is what LeBron did early in his career. It's what Luka did early in his career, 2011. Absolutely. It's like, you know, that's not the only definition of superstar, but it's one of them. And so I want to honor what I think is that power with Victor, but also don't want to disrespect what you are describing about temps, which is a absolute growling powerhouse that is, you know, fully healthy. I want to point something out about Denver, though, and we'll see what happens in tonight's game because I don't, you know, guaranteed jinx after tonight. When they play in Phoenix, they have nine games left. Seven of those nine games are at home fully healthy. Also, they finished the season playing Oklahoma City and San Antonio, I think, in that order, the last two games of the season. Yeah, it's possible that those games will not matter, that the first and second seed will be established. It's possible that they will matter. We just don't know yet. But the quote, unquote, hard games that Denver has left might not see their best teams. You know, they may not play their best team. So I would just say that Denver is in position to get that fourth seed. I think if they handle their business and avoid injury. And I'll say something else with the Lakers. They play the Pacers on Wednesday. I don't know if they'll win that game. The pacers have lost 16 to 17, but the.

[Tim Bontemps]

I've got a guess, but go on.

[Wendy Williams]

The Lakers next three games are Pacers, Nets, Wizards. If they beat the Tankers, it puts. It puts the Lakers in very strong position to get that three. So what I'm saying to you is the Nuggets and Lakers are in position to take seeds three and four. Whether or not they actually do, I don't know, but we will definitely see. Bon Temps. You had a story that's publishing on Wednesday about Jayson Tatum. One of the more interesting things happening in the league right now. There was a topic on First Take when I was on there today about whether or not Tatum's return is costing the Celtics in some way. Their offensive numbers are down. His shooting numbers are not great. I think it was spurred by Tracy McGrady. They were broadcasting a game in Boston on NBC the other night, and he was, you know, speculating that Tatum was having a negative effect that may be some truth to that in their terms of their offensive production. Even though Jaylen Brown's numbers are still, he's still getting the same number of shots. It's not like he came in and Jaylen Brown is not getting the ball. As you guys know, before Tatum even came back, I said, I don't care what he looks like in March. I don't really care much what it looks like in April. I care what it looks like on May 1st. I stand by it. But Bon Sims, you did a piece on Tatum and how he's looking, and I will hand the floor to you.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, I mean, I would say that was generally the opinion of everybody I talked to as well. Like, I think everybody agrees that based off Tatum's timeline for return, being 10 months out from a torn, a torn Achilles, he looks about as good as you could realistically hope for. And the question is, how is he going to look in two months or in six weeks? And nobody can tell you really for sure. Right? Like, nobody's got a crystal ball to know exactly how that's going to go. I think it's interesting in doing this story and looking at some stats and sort of analyzing how he's been. His usage rate going into this game on Wednesday is 30.8. He's had a usage rate somewhere between 30 and 32 each of the last five years running. So his usage is right back to where it was before he got hurt. Now, is that the most optimal thing? I would say probably not. However, Jason Tatum was probably going to come back and play like Jayson Tatum whenever he came back. And to your point about, you know, is this hurting the Celtics or not? I mean, I'm sorry, I. I think this entire conversation is idiotic. And I've thought so from the moment it was brought up, before he even came back. Because, look, Jordan Walsh has had a really nice year. He's a good young player. Jason Tatum has essentially replaced Jordan Walsh in the Celtics rotation. There is no world where the Celtics are worse off with Jordan Walsh playing instead of Jason Tatum. Now, perhaps Jayson Tatum will not get back to being Jayson Tatum between now and the end of their season, whether it's in the finals or the first round or the conference finals or whenever. But what's undoubtedly true is the Celtics have a dramatically higher ceiling to try to win a championship if they have Jason Tatum in the lineup. Whether Jason Tatum is an okay player, a good player, or something close to the first team all NBA player he was each of the past four seasons so of course it's a good thing for the Celtics that Jason Tatum is back now. He's not shooting the ball well. He looks a little bit sluggish with the ball, which is again, all normal stuff. His first step looks a little slow. That's all true. However, he remains a great rebounder. He's still a very good team defender. He still can make plays and he's still a guy who fills in gaps across the board, which is why he's always been a very positive player that's lifted up whatever group of players he's basically ever been out there with his entire career with the Celtics. So the biggest thing that the biggest message I got from basically everybody I talked to was it's just going to be a matter of time to see how he looks over the next six weeks or so. And it's impossible to know where it lands, but it, you know, credit to him for being back and, you know, we'll see how he can develop between now and then. But the idea that they're somehow worse off with him playing, I just, it's just a ridiculous conversation for anybody to have.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Jayson Tatum's return is not going to cost the Boston Celtics a championship. Jayson Tatum's return raises the ceiling to a championship possibility, right?

[Ben McMahon]

It gives him a chance to win one as opposed to not having one.

[Tim Bontemps]

Now, that doesn't mean it's going to happen, but like, it's pretty ridiculous to jump to any kind of knee jerk reactions based on two weeks of, you know, shooting numbers essentially from a guy coming back off of a 10 month rehab. Like, did you think Tatum was just going to hit the ground running at an all NBA level off of an Achilles?

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, and the thing that spurred this story was Sunday night after said game that Tracy McGrady and the NBC crew was at against the Wolves without anything Edwards in Boston, where the Celtics couldn't hit a shot and they blew a lead and lost. Tatum had a pretty frank post game interview about all this stuff. And at one point he got asked about, you know, how have you sort of handled the ups and downs of trying to come back. And he said, quote, I didn't know how this blank was going to be. It's tough in the moment. You try not to think about it. You just want to be Jason Tatum and feel like yourself again. But I'm not Superman. So it's obviously going to take some time and it is obviously going to take some time. He wasn't going to come back and immediately be a first team, all NBA player. And that, that's just the question is, can that ramp up, period, happen fast enough for him to get back to being an all star, all NBA caliber player by the time the playoffs come around? But I will say, when the Celtics have struggled in the past, it's been when they've tended to hold the ball more and rely on their three point shooting. And sometimes the threes go in and they look great and sometimes threes don't go in and they look bad. And with Tatum back, the one thing that does happen is they lean a little bit more into that and a little bit less into the Helter Skelter, fly around, you know, hustle play, stuff that they've been doing around Jalen Brown this season. But news flash to people who think that's a bad thing, that also gives The Celtics, as McGann said, an actual championship ceiling, which is why this has been something we've talked about all season. It's why it matters. It's why it's great. Jason Tatum is back, and we'll see what the next few weeks look like.

[Wendy Williams]

Very important. Cavs corner update before we go.

[Tim Bontemps]

Good.

[Wendy Williams]

Jared Allen. Kenny Atkinson says Jared Allen, who missed his ninth straight game on Tuesday night, is ramping up. Key piece of information in the Eastern Conference playoff race. Just said it a few minutes ago, so let it be known Jared Allen's gonna be.

[Ben McMahon]

It's gonna be a very interesting close to the season in the east where you've got the Knicks, the Celtics and the Cavs all pretty bunched together in those two, three, four spots. And you've got the Pistons with Cade Cunningham out with the collapsed lung sitting in first and holding on eight and

[Tim Bontemps]

two when Cade doesn't play. That's not a knock.

[Ben McMahon]

They're gonna get. The one between the Celtics losing that game to the Wolves on Sunday night and then the Pistons coming back at beating the Lakers the next night without. Without Cade, I would say with 5, 5 losses up, with a handful of games to go, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, they're going to be. They're going to be the ones to. Yeah.

[Wendy Williams]

But I mean, even if they went under.500 and the Celtics won out, I'm not sure that it would. I mean, if they went like five and six, I'm not sure they would. The Cavs one out.

[Ben McMahon]

The Cavs have. The Cavs have the Magic and the Heat right now while we're doing this pod Tuesday night to play the Magic. Then they play the Heat Wednesday night, the second night of a Back to

[Tim Bontemps]

back, here is State of Florida on a 10 game losing streak, by the way. Go on.

[Ben McMahon]

That's right. As of now, the the Cavs schedule in in April is the following at warriors, home for Pacers, at Grizzlies, a home and home with the Hawks and home for the Wizards. So you got four automatic tankers in there. And those two games against the Hawks are going to be fascinating because I

[Tim Bontemps]

think the warriors aren't tankers, they just stink. Go on.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, the warriors are. The warriors are very banged up with injuries, obviously. Moses Booty had a really unfortunate injury. Torres Patella on Monday. Steph probably could still be out then. The point is those two games against the Hawks are going to be super interesting. I think the last week of the season because that could be an opportunity for the Cavs potentially manipulate their way into whatever seed they want from two to four. And it also could be the difference between the Hawks being in the play in or being fifth or sixth, because that whole group of teams from five to 10 is three or four games apart in total. Yes. So those games on Wednesday and Friday, that final week of the season are going to be ones to watch anyway.

[Wendy Williams]

Jared Allen might be coming back soon. All right, thank you so much to McMahon and Bontemps. Thank you to Jackson and the rest of our producers. Thank you for listening and watching to Hoop Collective. Talk to you later this week.

[Tim Bontemps]

Adios, amigos.

[Rich Eisen]

Hey sports fans.

[Ben McMahon]

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[Rich Eisen]

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