Haliburton Dominates, Knicks Or Wolves Better Comeback Chance?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Haliburton Dominates, Knicks Or Wolves Better Comeback Chance?

Podcast Information:

• Title: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
• Host/Author: ESPN, NBA, Brian Windhorst
• Description: Brian Windhorst and a team of ESPN's Insiders sort out life in and around the NBA world.
• Episode: Haliburton Dominates, Knicks Or Wolves Better Comeback Chance?
• Release Date: May 28, 2025

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1. Introduction and Series Context

Timestamp: [00:36] - [01:55]

Brian Windhorst welcomes listeners to The Hoop Collective podcast from Gainbridge Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, where the Pacers have secured a 3-1 lead in the Eastern Conference Finals by defeating the Knicks 130-... First impressions include a light-hearted joke about mispronouncing Gainbridge Fieldhouse, highlighting the camaraderie among the hosts—Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, and McMahon.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Bontemps [00:57]: "Better learn how to say the name of this place properly. It's Gainbridge Field House."

2. Tyrese Halliburton's Stellar Performance

Timestamp: [01:55] - [04:50]

The discussion shifts to Tyrese Halliburton's outstanding game, where he scored 32 points, provided 15 assists, secured 12 rebounds, and recorded 4 steals without any turnovers. Tim Bontemps lauds Halliburton’s performance, suggesting it could spark debates about his superstar status within the ESPN ecosystem.

Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst [01:55]: "I really think we should talk about the masterful performance that we saw from Tyrese Halliburton."
• Tim Bontemps [02:22]: "Tyrese Halliburton is a superstar. And Tyrese Halliburton just had as good an offensive performance as you could possibly have in an NBA game."

3. Indiana Pacers' Offensive Prowess

Timestamp: [04:50] - [06:33]

The hosts analyze the Pacers' offensive efficiency, attributing their success to Halliburton’s playmaking and the surrounding talent, including Pascal Siakam. They highlight the team's ability to share the ball, play fast-paced basketball, and utilize players like Andrew Nemhardt, Aaron Neesmith, and Miles Turner effectively.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Bontemps [05:30]: "The other thing is this Pacers team is just unbelievably fun to watch. They share the ball, they play really fast."

4. Knicks' Defensive Struggles

Timestamp: [06:33] - [09:06]

The conversation turns to the Knicks' defensive issues, especially in containing Halliburton. Despite Jalen Brunson’s impressive 31-point performance, the Knicks struggled with 17 turnovers and allowed 20 points off turnovers. The hosts discuss how the Pacers' relentless offense has exposed weaknesses in the Knicks' defense.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Bontemps [07:42]: "The Knicks stuck around in the game. They scored 121 points. They hung in there, they kept fighting back..."
• Brian Windhorst [08:03]: "The Knicks played a quality game most nights in the NBA, but not against this team right now."

5. Comparison to Thunder-Wolves Series

Timestamp: [09:06] - [12:48]

Brian compares the Knicks-Pacers series to the Thunder-Wolves matchup, emphasizing the high-powered offense of the Pacers against the Thunder’s formidable defense. Tim Bontemps anticipates a thrilling Finals showdown between the Pacers and Thunder, highlighting the contrasting styles—Indiana’s offense versus Minnesota’s defense.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Bontemps [08:52]: "It's what Indiana does to teams over 14, 17 games in these series. You have to be on at all times."

6. Offensive and Defensive Statistics Analysis

Timestamp: [12:48] - [19:48]

The hosts delve deeper into the statistical aspects of the game, discussing offensive rebounds, second-chance points, and turnover differentials. They highlight how the Pacers efficiently converted turnovers into points and maintained a robust offensive rating.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Bontemps [17:22]: "The biggest one though was turnovers. Knicks had 17 turnovers."
• Brian Windhorst [21:16]: "The Pacers scored 36 points on 15 of 23 off Tyrese Halliburton's passes tonight."

7. Future Predictions and Playoffs Outlook

Timestamp: [19:48] - [27:28]

Forecasting the remainder of the series, the hosts express confidence in the Pacers closing out the series in Game 5, although they acknowledge the Knicks' resilience. They also touch upon the Thunder’s potential dominance in the Western Conference Finals, praising their young core comprising Jalen Williams, Chet Holmgren, and Shay.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Bontemps [41:02]: "The Thunder are set up to be the dominant team in the NBA for the rest of the decade."
• McMahon [27:01]: "This was a huge moment for Sam Presti because... he had the most important big time performance of his career."

8. Live Show Announcement

Timestamp: [45:01] - [47:35]

Towards the end of the episode, Brian announces the upcoming Hoop Collective live show scheduled for July 12th at the Brad Garrett Comedy Club in Las Vegas. The hosts encourage listeners to attend, promising an engaging evening with potential guest appearances from NBA personalities.

Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst [46:07]: "I'm signing up for the third annual Hoop Collective live show. You can get [e-mail]."
• McMahon [46:30]: "I wouldn't miss a live show. Although she had to tame her down a little bit in Akron."

9. Closing Remarks

Timestamp: [47:35] - End

The podcast wraps up with friendly banter among the hosts, thanking their producer and listeners, and signing off with enthusiasm for future discussions and live events.

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Key Takeaways:

• Tyrese Halliburton's Dominance: Halliburton's exceptional performance is central to the Pacers' success, showcasing his potential as a future superstar.
• Pacers' Team Dynamics: The Pacers' offensive strategy, led by Halliburton and supported by talented teammates like Pascal Siakam, makes them a formidable force in the Eastern Conference.
• Knicks' Defensive Challenges: The Knicks struggle to contain Halliburton and manage turnovers, which has significantly impacted their playoff performance.
• Thunder's Rise in the West: The Thunder, with their young and talented core, are positioned as potential Western Conference champions with a strong foundation for future success.
• Playoff Predictions: While the Pacers are favored to close out their series against the Knicks, the Thunder are viewed as poised to dominate the Western Conference Finals.

Overall Impression: This episode provides an in-depth analysis of key NBA playoff series, highlighting standout performances, team strategies, and future implications for the league. The hosts offer expert insights, backed by statistical data and personal observations, making it a valuable listen for NBA enthusiasts looking to understand the nuances of the current playoff landscape.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

Close your eyes, exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class.

[Tim Bontemps]

I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts.

[McMahon]

Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Brian Windhorst]

And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, sorry.

[Brian Windhorst]

Namaste.

[McMahon]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Tim Bontemps]

1-800-Contacts foreign.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to hoop collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing just after midnight on Tuesday evening. Wednesday morning. Joining us from Gainesbridge Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, Indiana where the Pacers put up 130 on the Knickerbockers in game four and have now taken a 31 lead in the Eastern Conference finals, Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Better learn how to say the name of this place properly. It's Gainbridge Field House. Because I think you're going to be here a lot for the next couple of weeks.

[Brian Windhorst]

What did I say?

[Tim Bontemps]

You've been saying Gainsbridge the last couple pots. That's all just a, just a funny little joke after a Pacers dominant performance.

[Brian Windhorst]

I appreciate your. Your checking me. I was one of your finest qualities. Joining us from right here in Oklahoma City, the full time job for game five of the Western Conference finals on Wednesday. By the way, Bontem. Some sources have told me the band McMahon has been mistaken in public for both Dave McManaman and Tim Bontemps in a 12 hour span in the last day.

[Tim Bontemps]

One of those is a insult. One of them is me. So that's, that's partially good and partially bad. McMahon.

[McMahon]

Howdy partners. Yeah, those are both true. I did forget about the bond Timps thing. You're very forgettable. That was a wee hours of the morning type of situation. A little post game situation. The other one was in broad daylight. Both very disappointing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Almost as disappointing as the Knicks defense in game four. Bon temps. But I really don't want to talk about the Knicks out of the gate. I really think we should talk about the masterful performance that we saw from Tyrese Halliburton. There's going to be a debate. I think I can already sniff it in the ESPN ecosystem if, if Tyrese Haliburton is now a bonafide superstar. I don't know about that, but I do know that this was a superstar performance. Bon Temps.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean that would be even by our standards. That would be dumb. Tyrese Halliburton is a superstar. And Tyrese Halliburton just had as good an offensive performance as you could possibly have in an NBA game. 32 points, 15 assists, no turnovers, 12 rebounds, 4 steals. A truly masterful performance from the opening moment of the game after he sat at this podium after game three and said he wasn't good enough, he had to be better and he would be better in game four. Not only was he I. It's not hyperbole to say that's as good an offensive game as you can possibly have. And yes, the Knicks defense wasn't good enough, and yes, they have to be better if they want to get the series back here to Indiana, let alone to win three more games and get to the NBA Finals. But part of the reason the Knicks didn't look good offense defensively tonight was because I don't know if there's a defense on the planet that would have slowed down Tyrese Alberton today, because that was a truly special performance by a guy who has repeatedly shown he is a special player offensively as there is in the league. It's why Indiana has had this unbelievable offense the past couple of years with him at the controls. Yes, they've got a lot of good players around him. Pascal Siakam had a phenomenal game. He's a perfect running mate for him. Rick Carlisle done a great job building this system around him. They've got guys like Andrew Nemhardt and Aaron Neesmith and Miles Turner who all are really good two way players, can all shoot the three, give them a lot of space to operate. None of it, though is possible without Tyrese Halberton at the controls. And that was just an unbelievable performance to watch, particularly after he said it was all his fault, even though it wasn't, I think, all his Fault after Game 3 and said he was going to be better and they would be better. And it was, it was incredible to watch.

[McMahon]

We're not participating in like superstar debates for a guy who just went for 3212 rebounds, 15 assists, 4 steals without a turnover in an Eastern Conference finals game, by the way, the second straight year he's been in the Eastern Conference. And hey, I know this. I know Giannis is a superstar. Tyrese Halliburton sending him home, I know Jonathan Mitchell's a superstar. Tyres Halliburton sending him home, I know Jalen Brunson's a superstar and he looks like Tyres Halberton is going to be sending him home. So when you line them up like that and they keep going home at Your hands then. Yeah. You know, and honestly, like the whole overrated thing, that just means players don't like him. And I like that players don't like him.

[Brian Windhorst]

You would?

[McMahon]

I love. I would. I listen though. The man talks trash. He's got antics and he backs it up. What's not to love about that? And look, I know there's. Oh my gosh, just small market stuff. Tyrese Halberton is absolutely a marketable superstar who is barging his way onto the biggest stage in basketball and it should absolutely be appreciated and celebrated.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not so sure about those suit shorts that he was rolling in the game with tonight. Did he wear that to the podium post game contest?

[Tim Bontemps]

I didn't see what shorts he had on coming off the podium, but I would assume it was the same clothes he had walking in the building, I would think.

[McMahon]

Listen, not everything should be appreciated, celebrated, but the man can hoop.

[Tim Bontemps]

And the other thing is this Pacers team is just unbelievably fun to watch. They share the ball, they play really fast. They, they, you know, Tyrese sprays the ball ahead. That's why Siakam such a perfect fit for him because he's very happy to kick the ball ahead to somebody else and let him attack. And Pascal Siakam has always been a fantastic one on one offensive player in the half court and, you know, but he's able to get a one on one matchup and go with his quickness, particularly against a big. And you saw it a few times tonight, he gets a kick ahead and he's got Mitchell Robinson or Carl Townes or one of these guys isolated on him and they just can't stay in front of him. And that willingness for by Terry's to give the ball up, to kick it ahead, to play with pace, to play fast. If everything this team is built around is built around his skill set. And we talked about it a lot at the time. But you go back to that trade him and Deonis Sabonis and sorry, Demonis a bonus. You've never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs for a reason. He's a very good player, but he has a lot of limitations.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Eastern Conference versus the Western Conference slightly different.

[McMahon]

No, we're not. We're not doing both teams.

[Tim Bontemps]

One, he didn't get out of the.

[McMahon]

Won that trade by a landslide.

[Tim Bontemps]

He didn't get out of the first round with the Pacers multiple times either. And this team has leveled up because Tyrese Halliburton has lifted this offense to a place that. No, nobody can really get to. And you've talked about them for a long time, Brian, the Pacers and how good they are. And look, obviously both teams got to get one more win, but it's certainly looking like it's going to be Pacers, Thunder in the finals. We've talked a ton about how the relentless pressure of the Thunder defensively wears down the opponents over the course of 48 minutes. Right. This is what Indiana does to teams. And Brian, you've talked about this a lot. This is what Indiana does to teams over 1 4, 7 games in these series. You have to be on at all times, you have to be ready for them at all times. And if you're not, they're getting backups for layup, they're getting open threes, they're getting transition layups. And that's what happened to the Knicks tonight. The Knicks stuck around in the game. They scored 121 points. They hung in there, they kept fighting back, but every time they'd get close, they would give up a straight line drive for a lap or they give up an open three because they just weren't quite locked in.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kind of like, it was kind of like watching the Wolves. Like, the Knicks played a quality game tonight. You know, there are some issues which we'll talk about. The Knicks played a quality game most nights in the NBA, most nights in the playoffs. Their performance tonight was a victory. But not against this team right now. Just like the Wolves performance last night was similar. And not against this team right now.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, I mean, that's, that's it. And it's, you know, it's, it's what's going to make this Finals if it happens. A really fun, fascinating basketball matchup because you've got this high powered, high octane, frenetic offense going up against this physical, high octane, frenetic defense. And it's going to be a real mashing of one, you know, one strength against another. And I think it's got a chance to be super fun to watch. And again, like in this series where you got Jalen Brunson and Tyrese Alberton going back and forth, you got the MVP of the league and Tyrese Halberton, one of the most exciting players in the league, going back and forth at the same position, he's got a chance to be an awesome, fun ride. And obviously there's still some time left to go in this series. I don't think it's as over as Thunder Wolves is. But you come out of this game the way Tyrese played And certainly hard to see the Pacers losing three times in a row.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So a couple of things about this game. One, you mentioned Siakam. Siakam had 30 tonight. That between Halliburton and Siakam, they were 22 of 44. Holy hell. That's a. That's a. I don't know what you're going to do about that. That's just.

[Tim Bontemps]

You're going to lose. That's what's going to happen.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. The other thing is height, size and depth. Size and depth. Depth and size. That is the name of the game in the current NBA. It was very successful for some teams in the regular season and it's been successful for some teams in the postseason. The Pacers in Thunder aren't huge, but they definitely have depth and they definitely have the ability to play. Have guys, you know, bigs come off the bench to play multiple positions. And in this game, Benedict Matheran, who had really given them. He was awesome as a six man, as a scorer, as a hellraiser in the regular season. He had, you know, he hadn't given him anything in the postseason. He comes off the bench and has 20 tonight and 12 minutes. Yeah. Oh my God. Exactly. And so you know, McConnell is one of the best off the bench guards in the league. Ben Shepard's role has grown in the postseason. I got to tell you, one of the most incredible stats of the, of the playoffs happened tonight in this game. I don't know if you guys want to take a guess at it. And I'm not talking about Halliburton having.

[McMahon]

I was going to say, is this, is this in the non Halliburton division?

[Brian Windhorst]

Because there's non Halliburton division.

[McMahon]

Hallibur.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know after the game, Carlisle like two or three times was like, stop talking about individual stats. This is a team game. I'm like, okay, I got it. Here's a team. It's a team stat. Okay. The Indiana Pacers. Bon temps. You want to take a guess?

[Tim Bontemps]

Do you know, I'm not sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Indiana Pacers had five offensive rebounds in this game. Not a great night offensive rebound wise. And scored 15 second chance points. Holy efficiency, Batman. That's true. You want to, you want to know like a pathway to getting beat. You keep. The Knicks had 13 offensive rebounds, the Pacers had five. The Knicks had 15 second chance points. The Pacers had 15 second chance points. I mean, that's just like. That didn't define the game, but that just is an illustration of the way the Pacers were handling their business. You actually get a stop. You get to stop it. Okay. You know, they finally miss you. Okay. Only give up five offensive rebounds. Not bad. You give up 15. My God.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean the, the Knicks lost the game in two areas. One fast break points, 22 to 9. Obviously Indiana has dominated in fast break points in the series. The biggest one though was turnovers. Knicks had 17 turnovers, led to 20 points, 20 to nine advantage for Indiana and points off turnovers. Josh Hart in particular had several really bad turnovers. And again, another comparison to the Thunder. If you give up live ball turnovers to this Pacer team, it's already hard enough. They, I mean they score a lot of times in transition off of made baskets. If they get a steal a half court, which Alberton got a couple of them live ball, I mean you're cooked right away.

[McMahon]

If, if Halliburton gets the ball out in the open court with guys running with him, they might miss a three, right? Going to be a layup or a three they're getting.

[Tim Bontemps]

They just might not make it.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you're watching the Pacers on tv, you know it's standard when you're watching on TV that a guy will score and then the television broadcast will sometimes switch to an isolation shot of the player. Just score.

[McMahon]

Can't do it.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Pacers, they switched to a guy who just scored and the guy's got a look of horror on his face because he's running back on defense because there's a ball coming right at him.

[McMahon]

And you got to be careful doing that because you might miss another bucket.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're not kidding. You got to be on your toes.

[Tim Bontemps]

And by the way, one thing, one thing about Halberton, it's interesting. It's Stats Williams just sent me. Tyrese Halliburton was the ball handler on 25 on ball screens where Jalen Brunson was the screener defender in game four. In other words, Pacers went after Jalen Brunson just about every time they could. The most on ball screens defended by a player against Darius Albertan in a playoff game in his career for genius iq. So well, the patient.

[Brian Windhorst]

I want to talk about that.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they got a lot of success with it.

[McMahon]

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[McMahon]

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighborhood, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right, I want to look at the raw box score here for just a second, and then I'm going to go over some lineup data on the Knicks. And I just want to say, before we start this conversation, Jalen Brunson is an awesome player. He has had an awesome postseason. Where would the Knicks be without him? They'd be home. Okay. In this particular series and this particular alignment where he plays with Carl Towns, Brunson's potency has been dimmed. Okay. Is that a politically correct way to say it?

[McMahon]

I don't know if his potency has been dimmed as much as he's just been a total bullseye.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[McMahon]

Because he's scoring.

[Brian Windhorst]

Fair enough. I'm trying to avoid being attacked for, for saying a bad word.

[McMahon]

Yeah, you're not trash, Brunson, but the simple fact is Rick Carlisle and Tyrese Halberton have targeted him repeatedly and successfully. And look, it's not a secret. Like, Brunson's defensively challenged to say the least.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, like why he was second round pick. You know, I mean, like there's, you.

[McMahon]

Know, but okay, he's athletically limited. He's. He's not very big. I, you know, you've got to protect him scheme wise, which is more difficult with Cat, and it's been exposed in this series.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, let's talk about some data here. Okay, in this game, Jalen Brunson played 37 minutes. He was minus 16. Now, plus minus data highly circumstantial. Plus minus 16. Carl Towns played 37 minutes. He is plus three. Only Nick starting to line up with a. With a plus. When Carl Towns and Jalen Brunson have played together in this series, over the first five games, over the first four games, they're minus 24. Okay, these are two, all NBA players, they got them to the conference finals. These two guys as the engines, they are minus 24. In this game, they were minus four. So when Brunson played without Towns, the Knicks got outscored by 12 points in this game, and when Towns played without BRUNSON, they were plus seven again, together, minus four. Together in the series, minus 24. The Pacers have pretty regularly attacked them. And Bon Temps. There's a number of reasons why the Knicks are behind. Some of it is just excellent Pacer play. This is the reality. The reality is, is that their two best players, because of their defense and because of how the Pacers can't attack them. And by the way, on the other side, Aaron Neesmith comes into this game and Carlisle said after the game he wasn't. I don't know if he was having gamesmanship, but he said that he wasn't sure he was gonna be able to play. He played 33 minutes, was very effective, and he was plus 20. And N. Smith being on the court basically matching Brunson for most of that time was a factor in that. But Bontemps, for as much as the Knicks have going for him, for as awesome as jump as Brunson has been, like, this is something that, you know you're gonna have to deal with as a, as a, as if you're the Knicks, this is a reality about why you're having trouble in this series.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, it's, it is a reality of the series. I also think this is just what Indiana's done to everybody. I mean, it's what they did to the Cavs, it's what they did to Bucks, it's what they did last year. You know, they're an extraordinarily hard team to guard. And again, you know, if you have a lineup with five shooters at every spot and all of them are credible offensive threats, which this Indiana group is like, it's just going to be really difficult for any team to guard them. And yes, the Knicks have had trouble with them. And yes, Jalen Brunson's in trouble with It. But, like, there's not really a fix for it. Like, other than the Knicks just have to guard better and have to. And they've had stretches in this series when they have done that. Like, Jalen Brunson was out there, I think, for the entire third quarter of the last game, and the knicks gave up 22 points. Carl Challenge was the only big out there for the entire fourth quarter of the last game. They gave up 20 points. Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Town's defensive numbers tonight were not bad. I think. I'll look it up here. But I think it was. They were four of 13 against him, I think.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And Towns is also spending a lot of time out there without Halliburton, which is, I think, the bigger story than his defensive ability.

[McMahon]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like, the Pacers got cooked whenever Halliburton wasn't on the court. So, you know, that's the. The bigger issue is that when arguably as good an offensive player as there is in the league, and that's the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thing about plus minus. You can't. You can't overreact.

[McMahon]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the problem is the Knicks have not been able to find a consistent answer to stop Tyrese Halberton, and there really hasn't been anybody that's found a consistent answer to stop Tyrese Alberton. And that. That is why the knicks are down 31 in the series, and that is why the Knicks have had trouble. Like, the Knicks staggered their. They staggered Townsend Brunson today. They didn't have them playing together all the time. Like, Brunson had 31 points on decent efficiency in the game. He got wherever he wanted on the court. But, you know, Alberton was unbelievable. And with draining shots on him, like, there's just not a lot else he could have really done on a lot of those shots. He was upping him decently, and Halpern just made shots because he's an incredible player. So, you know, like that. You know, I. I think if you're the Knicks, it is interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, that Halliburton, he averaged 17 points a game in the regular season.

[McMahon]

It was more than average, 18 and change, but. Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, okay, 18. Let's see. What was what he was averaging in the postseason coming into tonight?

[Tim Bontemps]

I want to say he was around 18 or 19, I think. Yeah. I mean, his. His point total is a wax. And Wayne.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, 18 and a half.

[Tim Bontemps]

He doesn't. He doesn't put up 30 every night, but when he starts hitting threes like he did tonight and starts getting in a rhythm, he can get as hot as Anybody in the league. It's what he did in Game 4 against Cleveland when the back breaking game of that series in the second quarter. And it's what he did in the first quarter, especially of this game. He came right out and I think qual 4 and 4 in the first quarter immediately set a tone for how the game was going to go. And the Knicks took off or the Pacers took right off from there.

[McMahon]

Oh, yeah. And he's not a brilliant offensive player because of his scoring ability. It's because of the way he can set the pace, and it's because he's one of, if not the best facilitator in the league. I mean, last year he led the league in assists, leading the playoffs and assists right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he is. I think T.W. jackson. How many points did he generate tonight? Was an assist 30.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, he had 32 points and had 15 assists. That's a minimum of 62 points. And I'm sure several of those assisted threes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

And, you know, and.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then six off his passes tonight.

[McMahon]

And then he's also a big shot maker. I mean, he is a cajones factor. Reigning player of the month, certainly. I would say front runner for player of the year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is there going to be a player of the year? Because. Is that how you. I don't remember how we did it.

[Tim Bontemps]

He said after the end of the regular season that he was done doing it, but now it might be coming back. It's like the. Like the criteria for the award. It's just everything's changing.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's the boss of it. The Pacers score 36 points on 15 of 23 off Tyrese Halliburton's passes tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it's pretty good.

[Brian Windhorst]

15 to 23. Like. Like, Holy Moses. He scores 30. Whatever. And they score 15 to 23 off his passes.

[McMahon]

I mean, come on. With no turnovers, with no God.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know what? The more we. The more we look at this, it's a miracle. The Knicks only lost by nine. It's like.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, that's the thing. The Knicks. The Knicks played a very good game. Tyrese Halliburton truly had as good an offensive game as you could ever have in an NBA game. And to me, the Knicks.

[McMahon]

That's a little bit of hyperbole, but it was.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not. It's not. To have 32 and 15 on efficient shooting with no turnovers. Like, you can't. There's really not like, sure, he could have 70 points in a game, but when you're talking about playing an offensive game, it's as good as anybody. It's as good a game as you can have. It just is.

[McMahon]

So I can, I can present you some joker games, but it's a historically special game. Historically special, sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Again, it's as good a game as you can have. And if I'm the Knicks, if I'm looking at this game, the thing that I am harping on are the turnovers especially. They just were really careless with the ball. Josh Hart threw several horrible passes that turned into turnovers. Mikhail Bridges had a couple, at least one at the top of the key where he just threw it basically right into Tyrus Albert's hands when he was guarding them. Like the Knicks are not going to be a fast breaking team. They're not going to win a shootout with the Pacers, typically, even though they played pretty well offensively tonight, you cannot give up 17 turnovers, you cannot give up 20 points off turnovers because again, Albertan, even if he's not scoring the ball, isn't giving you turnovers. He's not giving the ball back.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's got six turnovers in the four games, right?

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, he averages basically a turnover a game through the season. Maybe it's a turnover and a half. So like he's not giving the ball away and he's going to have the ball 3/4 of the time. So again, that's to me where the Knicks lost the game was just being, yes, the defense has to be better, but they've got to have 10 turnovers and they've got to win the points off. Turnover battle. And if, if they do, they can give themselves a chance. If they don't, I don't see how they're winning game five or any other game in this series.

[McMahon]

Well, and his turnovers have actually dropped every year that he's been in Indiana. 3.2, 2.5, 2.3, 1.6 this year. To play as fast as he does and it's not like he doesn't throw, you know, some, some passes through tight windows or, you know, passes that are traveling a lot of distance. It's not like he doesn't take calculated risks, but to protect the ball as well as he does. As a guy who's racking up assists like that and being aggressive, it's incredible, man.

[Tim Bontemps]

He actually talked about that. He actually talked about it after the game where he. Somebody asked, I think it might have been our, our probably Jamal Collier asked him about, you know, what is it about you that you have the ball so much and you don't turn it over. And he said, look, I know I jump a lot and it's I probably jump more than just about any other player who pass as much as I do. But I practice that all the time and I like, I practice taking care of the ball and it comes off in the way that he plays and like he just doesn't ever make a mistake when he's passing the ball. It's amazing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Pacers are averaging 10 turnovers a game in this series and game one, he's remember, went to overtime. So there's a little bit of a juicing in there. So I think the one game they had seven.

[McMahon]

And by the way, not to get ahead of ourselves, we can, the teams can, we can. You're looking at, you're talking about a guy who is spectacular as a playmaker, protecting the ball, going up against the best turnover, forcing the best defense. Period. But the best turnover forcing team in the league by a significant margin in the finals. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like.

[Tim Bontemps]

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[McMahon]

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[McMahon]

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[McMahon]

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon and I were in the Target center on Tuesday night, no Monday night, Memorial Day to see the best game of that series so far and the best game of The Thunder. This group of the Thunder. McMahon. Yeah. Considering the stakes.

[McMahon]

I mean, the best game. No, I mean, they've won by 51.

[Tim Bontemps]

Are you talking about the performance of their three young stars?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[McMahon]

The highest score in playoff performance for that trio. And honestly, I thought it was an okay. It sounds crazy because she had 49 rebounds and 10 assists. I thought it was a. By his standards, an okay game. It wasn't the Most efficient B B plus. This was a big time game for their 2022 draft class.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, God.

[McMahon]

That draft class is what elevated this team quickly into contender status we've talked so much about. Hey, can Jaylen Williams be that number two guy on a title team? And this was a big time, big time performance for him. He was spectacular. He's the one who set the tone early. He's the one who slammed the door late, was phenomenal in the fourth quarter, hit a bunch of big shots, you know, was very efficient, you know, and then Chet Holmgren was making plays all over the place. I thought it was probably Chet's best game of the series. And, you know, it's like Shay said, Man, he's 26, J Dub's 24, Chet's 23. I think they're all still getting better, but especially, you know, the younger two guys. But this was a huge, huge game for Jalen Williams, who is. It's not been the smoothest playoffs for him, but he came through for him big time in game seven, which, you know, didn't kind of float on the radar because it was a blowout. But this is. This time. They. They needed him and he was awesome.

[Brian Windhorst]

Big shot in Game 5 against Denver, which I think we potted that night. And I think Bontem said that, that that win could end up default being a defining moment in the playoffs. We'll see. But he had the game.

[Tim Bontemps]

The. Yeah, the defining moment of the playoffs, I think it was. And, and look, if you, you look at this game like you said, McMahon, I mean, he hit a couple huge shots late. I think he had 12 points in the fourth quarter, had 34 on, 13 for 24 shooting and 6 for 9 from three, including a couple massive threes late.

[Brian Windhorst]

The most threes he's ever made in a game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, and that, that was the. And that was. Look, like we talked about earlier, Minnesota played really well in this game. Like, the discourse about Anthony Edwards was silly. He moved the ball because Oklahoma City made him move the ball. His teammates had shots. 126.

[McMahon]

Yeah, we'll get to. Well, I'm Just a little bit.

[Tim Bontemps]

The point is Minnesota did well enough to win the game on most nights and it took those three guys all playing like stars to win the game. And Jayla Williams doing that in that spot I thought was a very big moment because yes, he hit the big shot in game five but stunk in the game. To your point he had a really good game 7 but most of it was in free air pretty easy. Even though it was a game 7 to do it in this game where all the chips were down, you really put a hammer lock on the series if you win it on the road. Coming back from a disastrous performance by the whole group in game three, thought it was a huge moment for him. Huge moment for the Thunder. And look, I certainly expect the series to be over tonight. Wednesday night at home in Oklahoma City in game five.

[McMahon]

It was a huge moment for Sam Presti because how much talk has there been about hey are they going to, are they going to cash in you know some of those picks, are they going to package, are they, they're going to get a co star for Shea And Presti has been patient, patient, patient. It wasn't just patient just to be patient. His patience was belief in Jalen Williams and belief in Chet Holguin and belief that they had a, A you know a championship caliber core already in place. They had the secondary stars already in place and you know Jalen Williams was named third team all NBA, was named second team all defense and just had the most important big time performance of his career.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well as you got to give him the max now don't you think?

[McMahon]

Well I think I think you're going to have to probably do that regardless. The question is is it going to be supermax eligible? And by the way that's also a question for Chet who he wasn't award eligible this year but I think there's a very good chance he can be in those either all NBA or defense player of the year conversations next year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well that's a topic for another day. But the performance by the Thunders defense in this game on Ann Edwards was impressive because they double teamed him on 100% of his drives. Every time.

[McMahon]

Yeah, they're packing the paint.

[Brian Windhorst]

He drove the ball to the paint. He every single time he was double teamed, sometimes triple teamed and on 91 I think it was 91% of his possessions he got a help defender.

[McMahon]

Yeah. Daganal would, would say the priorities making him play in a crowd and they def like that was the priority and that was the execution.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was actually Interesting. So, yes, before the game, Chris Finch, they. They ran sound of him speaking to the team and he was telling the Wolves pregame in the, in the locker room. Our goal here is to shut off Halliburton or shut off Holmgren and shut off Williams. That's our goal. So that was their, Their strategy was to make Shea beat them. Okay, that was a Wolf strategy. Obviously the Thunder strategy was anybody but Ant. He had two teams operating like anybody else. Yeah, right. In different strategies.

[McMahon]

Well, anybody but an and. And Randall. And look, Ant and Randall combined for 20 shots. Forget points. Points was 21, but only 20 shot attempts. And you know, the Thunder said, hey, you know, we, we've got to be better as far as not giving up as good a looks to their role players. But dude, their role players lit it up. I mean, Dean Chinzo five of eight from three to kill Alexander Walker was awesome. He was five of eight from three. Yeah. Jade McDaniels three is six. I mean, but they got 44 points out of DiVincenzo and Nikhil Alexander Walker. Those guys made the Thunder pay for. You know, they're for selling out to not let Ant and Randall get in a groove. But the Thunder or The Timberwolves scored 126 points against the best defense in the NBA. They did not lose this game because of their offense. They did not lose this game because. And didn't take over or whatever. They scored 126 points.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[McMahon]

They lost it because they couldn't stop okc.

[Brian Windhorst]

They lost it.

[McMahon]

They couldn't stop Jalen Williams and Chet holmgren.

[Brian Windhorst]

They had 23 turnovers. Where have you heard this before? They had 23 turnovers and they allowed 19 offensive rebounds, which is really hard to understand.

[Tim Bontemps]

Both teams, Both teams were insane on the offensive glass.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's true. At the end of the day, at the end of the day, I think the Wolves actually had more offensive rebounds than the Bulls. They did.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, it was. It was crazy how many offensive rebounds there were on both sides.

[Brian Windhorst]

There was a. There was a moment in the third quarter of this game where the Thunder had 23 more shots than the Wolves.

[McMahon]

Yikes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now the Wolves had a good fourth quarter, by the way.

[McMahon]

They scored 41 in the fourth quarter.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. I kept hearing people criticize. Well, and it was 2 of 6 in the fourth. I was like, they scored 41 points.

[McMahon]

Yeah. Again, yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

The criticism should be for, for example, Jade McDaniels having two horrendous defensive possessions in the final couple minutes, including the on the one wing three that Jaylen Williams hit, that ended up being the dagger where Jay had the ball at the top of the key And J. Jay McDonnells just basically stood there, didn't guard anybody and watch Jaylen Williams just run away from him to the wing and just have the easiest catch and shoot practice three of all time. That was a much bigger reason why they lost the game, because Anthony Edwards.

[Brian Windhorst]

Passed the ball, because he's being Jade McDaniels also made this relatively slick spin move on offense, thinking he freed himself from Chet Holmgren and that bass. That basket was 99% made. He, he skits a spin move on, you know, spins left, which you wouldn't expect because he's right handed, spins left, puts the ball right one inch from the glass and Chet comes right over the top and cleanly blocks it. In one of the signature moments of Chet's early career because it was a huge possession at the time, but the, the Wolves actually got it down. I think at the end of the game, the shot differential was only 11, which is not good. But no, that's the Thunder method is the possession game and 23 more shots. I mean, that's where the game's at. Forget about Ant passing the corner.

[McMahon]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Underplay the math game just like Indiana does in a lot of ways. I mean, that's, it's. Again, we keep talking about it, but in different ways. They do a lot of the same things.

[McMahon]

And, and you can say, hey, there maybe there are spots where you'd like to see Ant be more aggressive, but I don't want to Ant to go jack up 25 terrible shots just for the sake of jacking up shots. Like bench has tried to coach him away, has successfully coached him away from defaulting to hero ball. I'm not going to hammer a guy for making the right reads and getting off the ball and his teammates knocking down good looks in a game that they scored 126 points. If you want to criticize Ant, you say, hey, Ant's too good of a player not to make an impact even if he's not scoring, like, you know, create some havoc on defense or, you know, you know, whatever else. But like, I'm not going to hammer the guy because the attention to him kept creating open threes for his teammates and that he was willing to, to let them, you know, to give the ball up and let them get those shots.

[Tim Bontemps]

Per our, for our, our ESPN website, which I'm looking at right now, Indiana had an offense or Indiana, Minnesota had an offensive rating. In that game, 133.2 against the best defensive league by a mile. So, no, the offense was not the problem.

[McMahon]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

What do you suppose? I don't know. What do you suppose team's record is all time in the playoffs with 130 offensive rating.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I guess it's pretty high. I don't know what the number is, but I guess it's pretty. Pretty damn high.

[McMahon]

Yeah. And I mean, they abs. Listen, it was the second straight game that they scorched the best defense in the NBA, you know, 143 for that when it was hyper aggressive. And, you know, one of the Thunder's adjustments was, hey, the hell with that. He ain't going to beat us.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the. The Thunder definitely played it cool after the game. They definitely acted like they'd been there before. Their demeanor as an organization was very flat.

[McMahon]

That's what they do. Get back to neutral. That's part of the jargon.

[Brian Windhorst]

Mark Dagenault had a great quote when. When Malika Andrews asked, you know, did you learn. What did you learn about your team? He said, nothing. It was a as good of a quote as you're getting from Dag. And I was like, is that an authorized nickname? That's. I was like, that's a. That's not true. You learned about Jalen Williams. But. But it was a great quote. Yeah, I liked it. But. But yet when you were walking down the hall and you would see people in the Thunder party and you would look at him in the eye, there was a little fire there. They may not have been showing it on the outside, but they were like, oh, boy. That was what. That's what we were cooking up. That's what we've been looking for.

[McMahon]

And I would say that they. They're not celebrating.

[Brian Windhorst]

No.

[McMahon]

They're smelling blood. And dude, I. Again, the Runway for the Thunder, I. They're in the moment now. Yeah, yeah, I understand that. We can look big picture here. Long term. The Runway for this franchise is ridiculous. Now they'll have some payroll decisions. We don't need to delve into those. But again, they're big three, and it is a big three. 26, 24. 23. And the 23 year old, you know, there's some obviously durability issues, but also like, he's just a year and a half into his NBA experience. That's what. How much experience he has. The 24 year old gets significantly better every single season by going back to, you know, being an unheralded recruit going into Santa Clara.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's Just say it very simply. The Thunder are set up to be the dominant team in the NBA for the rest of the decade. Doesn't mean they will be, doesn't mean they have to be, but that's what they are. They are set up to dominate the league for the rest of the decade.

[Brian Windhorst]

I remember going to the game where LeBron broke Kareem's scoring record. They played the Thunder, the Thunder won that night. And the best player on the floor was Jalen Williams. He was a rookie. And I was like, oh my God, this guy is really, really good.

[McMahon]

And by the way, they're all two way players.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[McMahon]

You know, and they've got a million and seven picks to play with.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean they're, they are, they are set up to dominate the league for the next six years, including this season, the next five years, through 20, 30. Like that's just where it sits. We'll see if they do. Got to stay healthy, got to get lucky, etc. Etc. Etc. They got to get five more wins. But yes, if you're looking big picture.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I got to tell you, that's what's ahead. This town, the Thunder. How many houses do you think have thunder paraphernalia outside them? McMahon? It's, it's at least 50%.

[McMahon]

I'm in the storefronts and all that kind of stuff.

[Brian Windhorst]

You go past apartment buildings and like half of the balconies have thunder flags. Today when I got to the airport, the Uber driver opened up his trunk and he had a thunder flag draped from the, from the back, like inside back mirror so that, so that the thunder flag draped down like that's, that's how you were welcomed with the Uber driver at the airport.

[McMahon]

And the atmosphere in the arena is insane. Like not only are they all wearing their T shirts, they are in their seats loud, ready to rock and roll when the layers, they are like, forget about opening tips. Yeah, boy. That pregame prayer hits and they're, and they're, you know, it's go time, baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

Man, I mean this town is absolutely ready to explode. So.

[McMahon]

But dude, 3am There was like 800 or a thousand people at the airport welcomed them back.

[Brian Windhorst]

Last night it was a thunderstorm that hit Oklahoma City in the middle of the night. So the thunder had to circle. They, they, you know, took off after the game, took off around 11:30 midnight. And it's about an hour, 45 minute flight, but it took them like almost three hours because they had to circle out over southeastern Oklahoma while the storm passed. And then they landed and those folks waited through the rain. I don't care if there were 20 people there. I'm telling hundreds to greet him at the airport. No one graded me at the airport today except for the guy with the Thunder flag.

[McMahon]

Well, that was nice.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do we like these series to extend to a Game 6, either one of them? Bon Temps.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think you guys are going to be going home Thursday morning. I don't think the Thunder are losing on their home court the way this thing has played out. I do think the series is coming back here for game six. I mean the series has been very competitive again, even this game, the way this game went. Pacers were truly incredible offensively in this game. The Knicks still hung around. It was a six point game with a couple minutes to go. I, I think on their home court down 31 Think the Knicks find a way to get a win. And then that sets up what should be a truly unbelievable atmosphere here in Indiana Saturday night, 8 o' clock tip all day to get ready for it and we'll see if the Pacers can close this thing out. But yeah, I wouldn't shock me if Indiana comes in there and wins given the way they've played on the road in the playoffs and in this series. But I suspect this one goes six and I, I don't know, you guys think you've been around that series. I'll be very surprised if the Thunder don't get this thing done Wednesday night. Lock this thing up.

[McMahon]

Yeah, I'm with you. I like the Knicks chances. I'm not like certain on it. I wouldn't like put a mortgage payment down on or anything like that. I'd be very surprised if the Wolves were able to get another game in Minnesota this season. You know, they were, I, they were putting that or they're pulling the floor up as I was doing my Australia, you know, ESPN Australia because they put.

[Brian Windhorst]

Down the, they put down the links floor. I was there today at the arena doing NBA today because they put down the links floor.

[McMahon]

Well, but my point is, as that was happening, I was saying I don't think they're going to put this floor back down this season. You know that the, they had the role players jump shots have not traveled so far in the series for Minnesota and if that's the case again in, in game five, forget about it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's a good point because I don't see any reason why the Thunder are changing their defense on Ant.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, I mean, you know, you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

You'Ll see Ant getting double Teamed every single time. Maybe he'll look, maybe they'll do some more ISO with him so that it's harder to bring the double team. You know, I expect him to try to answer any criticism by, you know, getting up more shots or whatever, but it's not, I mean it's, you know, what you're, what you're, what you're looking for is a replication of the role players to deliver. And that's a big ask. Julius Randle obviously needs to play better.

[McMahon]

But yeah, and Finch's thing with Anne is they've got to play them off the ball more. You know, they've got a, well, it's not a loaded up defense just waiting on them.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I think some of the way to do this play through Randall More Randall Average 7 assists, 7 and a half assists the last series. He always averaging three or maybe even four this May three or I think matchup.

[Tim Bontemps]

The tough matchup for Julius.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know well.

[Tim Bontemps]

And again, just like the Pacers offense, the Thunder defense makes a lot of people look bad. Like it's just the way it is.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're right. Well, they can throw under defense look bad.

[McMahon]

Listen, Jayden Williams, second team all defense. Lou Dort, first team all defense. Those guys are, you know, guarding both of the stars. Alex Caruso, you know, certainly an all defensive guy in the past. And still that caliber, you know, they throw him in the mix. He can guard either one of those dudes or just be the most devastating help defender probably in the playoffs.

[Brian Windhorst]

So by the way, check out our colleague Ramona Shelburne. She did a really nice piece on Lou Dort on ESPN.com. i saw Lou last night and I congratulated him on making first team all defense. And he said, did I have your vote? I said, you had my vote last year.

[McMahon]

Oh, you just ahead of the, the trend.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you know, that's how I roll.

[Tim Bontemps]

Brown knows it's special, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Brown knows in Lou Dort. Yeah, that's my, that's my.

[McMahon]

I mean the man asked him a question when he provided a factual answer.

[Brian Windhorst]

We've got some news. Mark your calendars. McMahon, do you still have a calendar that you write on?

[McMahon]

I've got one of them fancy ones. My telephone.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, look at you. What do you got going on July 12th?

[McMahon]

Oh, I'm going to be in Vegas. There's going to be a fellow named Cooper flag playing at least one or two games I would think for the old Mavericks summer league team. Just going to be Hanging out. What are you going to be doing?

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm going to be in Vegas. I haven't been to summer league in years, but somehow I agreed.

[McMahon]

How did you not go when your.

[Brian Windhorst]

Discovery Wimby was there was covering Team usa? Actually, I didn't go for that. Bon Temps went for that. You always go.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. I was at. I was at both.

[Brian Windhorst]

I won't say Bontemps is making it. We won't give the details, but Bontemps is going to make an extreme effort.

[McMahon]

Extreme.

[Brian Windhorst]

Make sure he's there because on I will be.

[Tim Bontemps]

I will be at the live show.

[Brian Windhorst]

You will be at the live show after making an extreme journey.

[McMahon]

Wait, there's a live show?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. So here it is. July 12, Saturday night, July 12, 6pm Vegas time at the Brad Garrett Comedy Club at MGM Grand. Sweet is going to be the third annual. Because we're pretty much doing one a year. It's all. I'm signing up for the third annual Hoop Collective live show. And you can get [e-mail] I think the link will be live by the time this post. And if it's not, give it a minute. But yeah, I'm sure we'll have some guests. I'm not promising anything, but summer league will be going on so I'm sure we'll have some good guests. And yeah, come spend the evening with us. It'll be over relatively early. You can hit the strip. It'll be done. I don't stay up late, so it won't be that long.

[McMahon]

I'll have. I'll have adult supervision. The IT department's going to be there, rightfully so. I wouldn't miss a live show. Although she got a little. She got a little. Had to tame her down a little bit in Akron.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, yeah. I was ready to be done at 7:30 in Akron. Much less Vegas.

[Tim Bontemps]

Much less Vegas.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so mark it down. Check. Come join us. We'll have a good time. And Jackson will be there too. He's really going to be the star of the show. So. All right, so that's it here on the Hoop Collective. Thank you for watching and listening. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to Bontemps, thank you to McMahon and hey, we'll talk to you next week.

[McMahon]

Adios amigos.

[Tim Bontemps]

It.