← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
How Can The Pacers Beat OKC? + What Is Going On In Utah…Again??
00:56:01
Hoop Collective: How Can The Pacers Beat OKC? + What Is Going On In Utah…Again??
Loading summary
Transcript183 lines
- [00:00]
Venmo Advertiser
With a Venmo debit card, you can Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything. Need gas? You can Venmo this. How about snacks? You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch? You can Venmo this or their next show? You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license. My MasterCard International, Inc. Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.
- [00:36]
Brian Windhorst
Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing ahead of media day, which is on Wednesday in Oklahoma City. Joining me from New York City, where he'll be heading down yonder to the OKC region is Tim Bontemps.
- [00:51]
Tim Bontemps
Hello everybody.
- [00:53]
Brian Windhorst
And heading to his second home this postseason, he knows the route to OKC very well. Gate C35 usually I made that up is Bam McMahon.
- [01:06]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Howdy partners. By the time this airs, I will be on the safe side of the Red River.
- [01:13]
Brian Windhorst
All right, but we talk about the NBA, which we're going to do about this Game one. I have had many people in my life in the last 48 hours say to me in passing, I really looking forward to this Finals. I'm really excited about this Finals more than I expected. And that was good. I was good. I hope it doesn't let him down because the more I've looked at this bond temps and you know how I feel about the Pacers. You know how I feel about the Pacers.
- [01:43]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, propping them up as a defense for Cavs corner since January.
- [01:47]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Well, listen, since he if when he spends time with you in France.
- [01:55]
Brian Windhorst
Yes, it's a, it's a, it's an important thing. If you, if I, if we bond in Paris, I hope that it's a good series.
- [02:01]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
I'll start Listen for the Pacers to win this series, Rick Carlisle is going to have to out coach Mark Daganal the same way that he out coached Eric Spoelstra during the 2011 finals. And hey, we all know Spolster is one of the great coaches in the league. Dagenault certainly has carved out a reputation for being elite. I mean, he's coach of the year last year. But I think Carlisle is going to have to pull off some, some Houdini type of stuff as he did in 2011, to give the Pacers a chance in this series. The guy is one of the best in the league at game to game, you know, even in game adjustments. And there's going to have to be some sorcery here.
- [02:45]
Tim Bontemps
Well, let's go back to that series because I think that is a decent analog in part because you have. I mean, it's arguably the biggest lopsided.
- [02:53]
Brian Windhorst
I thought about that. You know, The Cavs in 2016 were a. An awesome. Awesome.
- [02:58]
Tim Bontemps
That's not. It's not. The Cavs warriors was not looked at like this. The Cavs had LeBron James on their team. The Pacers do not. This is probably the close. Probably the closest comparison from a one team being favored going into it ahead of time is. Is heat maps. And while, yes, Rick Carlisle did a tremendous job coaching in that series, the biggest reason the Mavericks won that series was because they had the best player. Right. And so player in that series.
- [03:26]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Not the.
- [03:26]
Tim Bontemps
No, that's. No, but that's what I'm going.
- [03:28]
Brian Windhorst
And there's some footage that has been on earth the last couple of days of your buddy JJ Berea guarding LeBron. And that's. That's.
- [03:35]
Tim Bontemps
That's.
- [03:36]
Brian Windhorst
It's even worse than I remembered. McMahon.
- [03:39]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
I spoke to Jose Juan today. He's in New York. Just unfortunately had to get some hip surgery.
- [03:44]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, well, shout out to JJ hopefully it feels better soon, but. Yeah, I mean, look, I agree with you, Brian. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this series over the past week and a half, ever since The Pacers went up 2 0. And it seemed like it was a very likely outcome that the Pacers are going to get here. And are there outcomes where this is a. Like a long, competitive series? Sure. Especially if the Thunder really struggle to shoot the ball and The Pacers shoot 50% from three, which they're capable of and they have at times in these playoffs. But I don't think. Well, I do think if people tune in, whoever does tune in is going to enjoy what they're watching, because I think they're both super fun teams to watch. I don't think it's going to be a long series, but pick Thunder and five. And the way that isn't going to happen and the Pacers make this a long series is if Tyrese Halberton is the best player on the court, and if he's going to be the best player on the court, he has to do what he normally does, which is not turn the ball over, which he's probably as good or better than anybody in the league at not turning the ball over. And McMahon has been banging the drum for months about how dominant Oklahoma City's defense is from a turnover perspective and how they're casually getting 20, 25, 30 points off transition in these games. And the other thing he cannot do is be passive. And he has a lot of games where he has 8, 10, 12, 4, 14 points. And Tyrese cannot be passive in this series. He has to be aggressive getting guys open for shots and he has to be aggressive scoring because I think that's the only way if he's the best player on the court over seven games. That's the beginning of the formula for Indiana winning the series. But to do that, that's the way he's got to play.
- [05:27]
Brian Windhorst
All right, so here's a tough couple of paragraphs for the Pacers chances from Zach Cram and Kevin Pelton on our staff who did an analysis of this. Now this is over the last two seasons, which is four games. Pacers, Thunder last two seasons these teams are have generally had the same personnel. Siakam obviously was traded midway through the season, but the way the Pacers played last year, the way the Thunder played last year, comparable obviously they both were final or the Pacers were final four last year, Thunder got beat in the second round. They have added Alex Caruso and Kacen Wallace has gotten a lot better. But here is this, here is the stats in the Last these last two years, four games, Halliburton has averaged 10 field goal attempts per game, his second fewest of any opponent over the last two years and 0.5 free throw attempts. He's drawn just one shooting foul in the four games. One shooting foul. Now granted, some of Halliburton's game is he gets a corner turned on you and you grab him. He doesn't have to go to the basket. But still, his 8.5 persist assists against the Thunder over the last two years are the fourth fewest of against any opponent. And he has scored just eight points in 10 shot attempts in 122 possessions when he was guarded by Lou Dort.
- [06:47]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
See, there's a problem. Now halberton did have 22 points and 11 assists against the Thunder this season. But that's a two game total. Yeah, and, and but seriously, you nailed the problem there. It's like, okay, hey, it's easy to sit here and say Halliburton's got to be aggressive. Halberd's got to be the best player. Halberton's got to be, you know, this dynamic playmaker. Halberton's got to deal with Lou Dort.
- [07:08]
Tim Bontemps
And then when Lou and Casey Wallace and Alex Caruso and all and shake it, Alexander and all these guys beyond.
- [07:15]
Brian Windhorst
That, well, go ahead, McMahon.
- [07:16]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
I don't want to wrap this 94ft of just like all defensive nastiness in his face with Lou door. And again, when Lou checks out, it's either going to be. It's probably going to be Case and Wallace, who might even be better in some ways, Case and Wallace might be better suited to just annoy the hell out of a guy and smother a guy for 94ft. And if it's not those two, it's Alex Caruso.
- [07:42]
Tim Bontemps
It's just.
- [07:42]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
And then if you get into the teeth of the defense, there's Chet back there or Hartenstein or both. Like Halliburton is a. Is an amazing player. He's an amazing player who's able to play at breakneck speed in wide open floor. And that's when he's at his best. He's not like a grind it out type of point guard. And it's just going to be hard to get into the open court with wide open space, you know, playing at a fast pace against his team.
- [08:14]
Tim Bontemps
Well, and also Hal Burton particularly loves to find the weak link in the defense and then gash.
- [08:20]
Brian Windhorst
This is the big thing to me.
- [08:22]
Tim Bontemps
And you saw it in the Knicks series, whenever he got Jalen Brunson in a matchup, he took advantage of it, whether it was to get himself a shot or very often to get other guys a shot. Because like we've talked about, yet, like as much as I'm saying, he needs to be aggressive and shoot the ball. Like one of the things that makes him a special player is that he is okay giving the ball to his teammates, kicking the ball ahead, like letting Siakam go to work letting. And Andrew Nemhardt and Aaron Neesmith on the swing go to work. The Thunder not only are a team that scrambles as well as anybody and get back to those guys in a way no other team can, but if you go Back to Game 5 of the Knicks series, the one game he really did especially little in the game and I especially the one game he really struggled. Yeah, the Knicks. The Knicks picked him up. Like, I think their pickup point was like 50 or 60ft up the court. It was the highest they went in the series.
- [09:10]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Right.
- [09:10]
Tim Bontemps
Mikhail Bridges, like you said, they've got. The Thunder have several guys that can grab him at the other end line and stay with him the whole time and they're not sacrificing anything on the back end if he wants to go with Shea or he wants to go at even Isaiah Joe, like anybody, they bring it off the bench. There's, there's not a, there's not a hey, that guy can't.
- [09:32]
Brian Windhorst
They don't have Brunson and Towns to target. And even if you had somebody you wanted to target, even if you wanted to get him on Hartenstein, they nobody fights over the top of screens and refuses switches better than the Thunder argue. I'm not sure I've ever seen teams who do it.
- [09:47]
Tim Bontemps
No, Caruso's great at it. While like they're all great at it.
- [09:50]
Brian Windhorst
So, so the way you do it, the, the, the way you manage that is you stay out of the half court. You are in transition as much as humanly possible, which is what they do on an average day anyway. You know, I thought, you know, Mark Dagenault said that today he was interviewed, he was talking about him and he goes, the thing I respect about him is they play the exact same in January is May, and they play the exact same when they're down 20 as when they're up 20. And so like the Pacers. Not like what the Pacers need to do is going to have to take a adjustment.
- [10:19]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Yeah.
- [10:20]
Tim Bontemps
More Hoop Collective podcast after this this.
- [10:25]
State Farm Advertiser
Episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.com prime to learn more.
- [11:18]
Abercrombie Advertiser
Abercrombie's vacation shop essentials are 25% off right now and Spotify listeners are getting an extra 15% off with code Spotify AF. My summer schedule is booked up. I need shorts, tees and swim I can throw into a suitcase for weekend trips. Abercrombie has me covered. Take an extra 15% off with code Spotify AF through June 9, 2025. Valid in US and Canada. Exclusions apply. See details online. 25% off vacation essentials is valid in US and Canada through June 9, 2025. Applies to select styles as indicated. Price reflects discount.
- [11:53]
Brian Windhorst
We'll all be in Oklahoma City for games one and two this week and Indianapolis for games three and four. If we want to go back to Oklahoma City for five and then maybe six pound temps. There's a couple of things I think the Pacers need to do. You referenced it earlier and I know that this sounds basic and I hate that this is often a something we talk about when it comes to the modern NBA, but it's you have to be just level headed. Pacers have to hit their threes because the one thing that Oklahoma City will do, they will give up three point attempts. As you've talked about during this postseason, Oklahoma City will sell out on the player or players that they are interested in stopping, which in this case is going to be Halliburton, which in this case means blocking the lane for them. They will leave the shooters and if they move the ball you can pass your way through the Thunder defense. You can generate an open shot. The problem is that the guy that gets the open shot isn't always the guy you want shooting it. The Pacers have been the best three point shooting team throughout the playoffs. Over 40% it was. They absolutely obliterated the Cavs. The Cavs were the best three point shooting team percentage wise throughout the whole season and the Pacers killed them in that end. Oklahoma City themselves are not generally a great three point shooting team. So one place that you can get the the Thunder on is you can outscore when the three point range. But I know it's, it's surface level analysis but Bonsam, she got to make the threes.
- [13:20]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. I mean in the playoffs. Aaron Eastmith shooting 50% on over five attempts per game. Andrew Nemhardt shooting 48% on almost four attempts per game. Pascal Siakam shooting 46% on three and a half attempts a game. Miles Turner shooting 40% on four attempts per game. Tyrese Halberton is shooting 33% on seven attempts per game. He's been their worst three point shooter. So and he's typically a very high percentage shooter. So you know like in the regular season Andrew Nemhardt shot 29% from threes. He's been basically all his other stats in the playoffs are the same. He's shooting 20% higher from the three point line. Like that's a big part of why this team is in the finals. And I think while you're correct, they have to keep making shots. They also need the Thunder to have some cold stretch games, which they're very capable of having. Like we talked about it, Lou Dort, in my opinion, won the Thunder the title in game five of that series. We talked about a lot in the Denver series when he hit all those threes in the fourth quarter.
- [14:12]
Brian Windhorst
He's also capable offensively for three quarters that night.
- [14:15]
Tim Bontemps
Well, he. Right. He could miss 25 threes in a row and then make 10 in a row. Incredibly streaky shooter. Like, a lot of their guys are pretty streaky. They can have games where they go buy for 25 from 3. So I do think, you know, yes, we talk about three point variants a lot. But again, when you're the underdog in the series, which the Pacers are like, their offense has to be good and they've got to take advantage of any games where the Thunder don't hit shots because if they don't win those games, they're going to have a very hard time in the games they do. Like for example, in the game these two teams played in March when both sides are mostly healthy, The Thunder shot 17 for 36 from three. The Thundershoot 47% from three in any.
- [14:56]
Brian Windhorst
Game this series, especially if they make 17. Good God.
- [14:58]
Tim Bontemps
Right. But they're going to get up attempts like they shoot a bunch of threes. But if they shoot well in games this series, it's very hard to see the Pacers winning. And by the way, in that game, Indiana went 14 for 42 and Halliburton went four for nine. So the rest of the team was 10 for 33. Siakam is one for five, Aaron Neesmith was one for three, Nemhardt was one for four, Turner was over one. So those three guys combined to go three for 13. If they're going three for 13 from three in games in the series, the Pacers are not winning like that. Again, it sounds reductive, it sounds obvious. But like, that's going to be a huge battleground is the Pacers are going to have to win games in this series with their offense and that means hitting a ton of threes. And they're going to need to force the Thunder into some misses.
- [15:43]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
And I wouldn't just assume that the same way that Oklahoma City defended Anthony Edwards is what Tyrese Halliburton will see or even John Moran, you know, for the first two and a half games before he got hurt in that series. Those are guys who even, even with Ant becoming, you know, one of the best volume three point shooters in the league. The number one thing you're worried about with those two guys is just they're so dynamic as drivers and as finishers, and, you know, they're guys that if you can make playing crowds and you know, you can create turnovers where, you know, I'm not sure that they're going to have the same, like, pack to paint type of mentality for Halliburton, because really, when Halliburton's driving, you're not necessarily like, he's, he's a. He's not a bad finisher. But that's not the thing that really strikes fear in you when Halliburton's getting in the teeth of your defense. What strikes fear in you is his ability to get in there and then spray it out to all these shooters that surround him. And, you know, you know, obviously they're still going to be aggressive trying to create turnovers, but he is a guy who protects the ball so well that I, I'm just curious to see if the make him playing crowds approach applies as much to Halliburton as it did the previous superstar guards that they've seen during this playoff run.
- [17:04]
Tim Bontemps
Look, the Thunder always play the same way, right, that they fly around, they try to speed the team, the other teams up. Like you, like, we, we know how they play, right? I feel like then Mark Dangdal's way smarter than us about basketball, obviously, but there are very few teams that are capable of doing this in the way the Thunder are. But I would play Tyrese Halliburton if I had the ability to. And I think the Thunder do like you play to Cole Jokic, which is to make him a scorer. And to me, if the Thunder, who never play this way, and so I don't really expect them to, if you could stay home on all the others can and like, say, hey, tyrese, go score 50. Go score 50 every game. We're not going to let Aaron Neesmith get open for three. We're not going to let Andrew Nemhardt get open for three. We're not going to let Miles Turner pop up, pop to the three point line and hit threes. We're going to make you beat us by scoring 50. I don't think the Pacers can win that way, and there's very few teams that actually can guard them that way like the Knicks had no chance to, but the Thunder can. And so I. That's what I would do personally.
- [18:08]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
The Thunder can rotate elite, physical perimeter defenders on him. I mean, yes, they have four Elite, like top of the league elite perimeter defenders. Lou Dortmund, Case Wallace, Alex Crusoe, Jalen Williams. I assume Jalen Williams is probably going to spend and probably Crusoe as well. Probably will Both those two guys will probably see more Siakam.
- [18:32]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, Xander is above average too. He's the fifth best of those guys and he's good.
- [18:37]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Yeah. And then you know what's, what's going to be interesting is how much Holmgren and or Hardenstein can factor in his rim protectors. Because one thing that the Pacers do is they spread you out. And obviously Miles Turner, you know, he, he spots up few feet beyond the arc and you gotta guard him out there. I mean even Thomas Bryant in Game 6 hit some big threes during that run of the third quarter against the Knicks. So it will be interesting to see.
- [19:11]
Brian Windhorst
You know, Miles Turner just 7 of 22 on threes in the conference finals. That's, that was a significant, you know, they're gonna. Look, you don't need Turner to have 25 point games. He's capable of that. But he is good like Jackson put the stats in here. We were talking about the three point shooting that the Thunder allow. They allow 12 corner three point attempts a game. That's second amongst all the teams in the playoffs. And Indiana shoots 47% on those corner threes in the postseason. Some of those are Miles Turner and Turner needs to hit those. Because what you're going to do is you're, if you're helping on, if you're staying home on the other wing shooters and you've got Halliburton, that you're going to try to play more straight up and you want your big to back in, which is what they did against Ann Edwards. He always had a guy in front of him. If not two, Turner is going to be able to slip out, you know, in ways that go Bear obviously did not.
- [20:03]
Tim Bontemps
The other thing, the other thing about.
- [20:05]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
The way real quick. In ways that Nas Reed did not punish them for.
- [20:09]
Brian Windhorst
Occasionally he did, but for the most part they were willing to let him shoot it.
- [20:12]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Right.
- [20:13]
Tim Bontemps
Well and the other, the other thing about the Thunder playoff run is let's look at who they play like. Let's set the first round aside. Right. They played Denver in the second round where they gave up about a million corner threes to Russell Westbrook because they were very happy with Russell Westbrook bombing away from the corner. Right. Conference finals. They let Jade McDaniels in particular bomb away from the corner because they weren't really all that worried about Jade McDaniels hitting shots from the corner. The Pacers are a different level of shooting team. And so I would be a little surprised if they employ to your point, my man, the exact same strategy like that because it. You're. I would not be as okay with letting pretty good shooters take those open shots. And the other two things to point out. Miles Turner is not a physical big. He had an extraordinarily hard time with both Carl Towns and especially Mitchell Robinson on the boards. I think Isaiah Hardenstein is going to be a very tough matchup for him. And I think any second Miles Turner is not on the court, he's going to be able to feast inside just like Mitchell Robinson did in that series.
- [21:11]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
You binged Hardenstein the last pod.
- [21:14]
Tim Bontemps
No, I. Well, I said. I said I would have him out there any second. To me, I would start chat and put him on him potentially as one way to go and just man up everybody. But the other way to go is make sure Isaiah Hartenstein in particular is on the court every second Miles Turner isn't because they're either having Thomas Bryant or Tony Bradley out there and he can feast on the boards. And the other thing is, you saw Delon wright shut down TJ McConnell the second half of that next series. And the line Wright is, you know, is that a very nice career, but he is nowhere near the guys. The Thunder are going to be rolling out there and a big part of the Pacers identity is having that second unit with McConnell sort of doing his, you know, getting in the lane and cutting around and kind of playing a certain style with that second group. I don't like the chances of that working against the Thunder with the way this team is able to guard them.
- [22:06]
Brian Windhorst
One more thing I'm going to point out, as we know that it's very important for the Pacers to generate turnovers. It is for the Thunder too. So Lifeblood. And I don't want to overestimate the two games in the regular season, but it's what we have. And in the two games the Thunder turned the ball over 13 times total.
- [22:26]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Yeah, I know. Nice to play at least one of those. He didn't play.
- [22:29]
Brian Windhorst
That's true. Yes. I don't like it. One of the games was December 26th. Our very good friend from Yahoo, Tom Haverstrough, had a great nugget. That is this is the first time since 2007 that the two teams have reached the finals. Didn't play on Christmas. The irony is the Thunder were in Indiana on Christmas. It Just was off night because they played the next day.
- [22:50]
Tim Bontemps
So the league in the game they had everybody playing. They had nine turnovers. The Pacers, they forced the Thunder into nine turnovers in the second game when all their guys.
- [22:59]
Brian Windhorst
But they got 10 points off the turnovers or seven. That was.
- [23:03]
Tim Bontemps
No, I'm just saying. I'm just saying in the one game Nisma didn't play, but in the one he did where they had all their guys, they didn't. They didn't turn the band, turn the Thunder over.
- [23:11]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
And the Thunder. The Thunder led the league in turnovers forced and had the fewest turnovers committed. They averaged 11.7 turnovers committed per game in the regular season. That number has increased in the playoffs to 11.8. Yeah, they forced. I think it was 17 per game during the regular season and it's like 18 and change in the playoffs. So they had the best turnover margin in the league, like first and first. So the best by far. And their turnover margin is better in the playoffs than it was during the regular season.
- [23:46]
Tim Bontemps
And by the way, something else to point out because we only have. I think the second game is even a little more indicative given there were more guys out the first one.
- [23:53]
Brian Windhorst
That's fair.
- [23:53]
Tim Bontemps
Isaiah Hartenstein played 14 minutes in that game. Kenner twins played 27 off the bench and was plus 23. I would guess that Kenrin Williams is going to have a pretty significant role off the bench in this series for Oklahoma City because Indiana, I would assume is probably going to lean small, probably going to try to speed the game up and have, I would guess, more of Obi Toppin than either Tony Bradley or Thomas Bryant playing. And anytime they do that, the Thunder will probably go with Kendrick Williams at the 5. And that has been something that Williams.
- [24:25]
Brian Windhorst
Played a lot in the west finals.
- [24:27]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
And played well and him and Jalen Williams J will sometimes, you know, one of those guys, their 8th or 9th guy and sometimes they're the 11th or 12th guy.
- [24:39]
Tim Bontemps
And both Chat and Jalen Williams, the big Were not available for that game. So that even that's a little hard to tell. But yeah, I mean look, the Thunder. The Thunder just have. They have an answer for just about everything you can throw at them. And I think you. I remember if you said it in a story or to me, Brian, but Pacers do a lot of things really well. The Thunder do just almost all of them a little better and that that's.
- [25:02]
Brian Windhorst
Where it's just the pace very good at everything and the Thunder are great at it.
- [25:07]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
The Pacer's biggest strengths are running right up against what the Thunder are dominant at. And that really gets down to the Pacer's biggest strength is they play fast and with a ton of space and generate wide open threes and easy buckets. And the Thunder obviously are the best in the in the world at making scoring really, really hard. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this Close.
- [25:35]
Tim Bontemps
Your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax.
- [25:38]
State Farm Advertiser
And let go of whatever you're carrying today.
- [25:42]
Venmo Advertiser
Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts.
- [25:45]
Brian Windhorst
In time for this class.
- [25:46]
Venmo Advertiser
I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts.
- [25:49]
Tim Bontemps
Oh my gosh, they're so fast.
- [25:50]
Abercrombie Advertiser
And breathe.
- [25:51]
Venmo Advertiser
Oh sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.
- [25:56]
Tim Bontemps
Oh sorry.
- [25:58]
Venmo Advertiser
Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [26:02]
Tim Bontemps
1-800-Contacts.
- [26:06]
Venmo Advertiser
Hey there travelers. Kaley Cuoco here. Sorry to interrupt your music great artist BT Dubs, but wouldn't you rather be there to hear it live? With Priceline, you can get out of your dreams and into your dream concert. They've got millions of travel deals to get you to that festival gig, rave, sound bath or sonic experience you've been dreaming of. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights. So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline.
- [26:31]
State Farm Advertiser
Go to your happy price. Priceline.
- [26:36]
Abercrombie Advertiser
Pro Paint days are back at Lowe's and Mylo's Pro Rewards. Members can save even more with limited time deals right now. Buy one get one half off Select HGTV Home by Sherwin Williams Primer and Ceiling Paint. Plus get free same day delivery to your job site when you order by 2pm Offer valid through 6 13. Delivery by 8pm Subject to driver availability. Additional terms apply. C loads.com SameDay Delivery for details.
- [27:09]
Brian Windhorst
I think I mentioned this in the last podcast. I mentioned it a little bit, but I I mention it again just in case you forgot. The Thunder were 291 against Eastern Conference this year. The one loss was in Cleveland. Bontemps. You were there. It was arguably the best regular season game I watched. You know, there were some, there were some regular season games that had incredible comebacks this year where we saw stuff. But in terms of playmaking back and forth for 48 minutes, it was right there with the best game I saw. And it took the Cavs playing at the very top level to narrowly beat the Thunder at home once.
- [27:45]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. And then in the Next game or in the next game, as we know, when they played in Oklahoma City about nine days later, I don't remember what the score was a few minutes into that game, but it was not. It was not.
- [27:56]
Brian Windhorst
Man, you read that game, wasn't you?
- [27:57]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Yeah, the score a few minutes in was a whole lot to. Not very much. And by the way, that was another one of those games where the Thunder were big. Listen, both their. Yes throughout and that's. That was the game where Kenny Atkinson said compared their defense to seven pit bulls. He said seven, not five. It's like facing well.
- [28:18]
Tim Bontemps
And in that. And in that game again, like so. For so much of this Thunder season, it is remarkable they won 68 games and Chad Holmgren, I think, missed more than half the games and did not play in either of those games. But you know, again, if you're looking at what's a formula for a team built similarly to the Pacers, though not exactly the same, like what's the formula for them to win? Right. The Cavs were plus 10 in free throw attempts and plus 5 and makes. So we've talked a lot about how physically the Thunder play the whole Legion of Boom concept. Right. They're going to force the refs to call fouls a lot, sometimes a lot more than they think they should get called for. But I think it works out the wash pretty fairly for them.
- [28:59]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
But, but Rick is an experienced politician. He knows how to work a ref.
- [29:03]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, he does. And so obviously, if you can get to the line now, the Pacers aren't. The Pacers don't really have a lot of guys that really get to the line. That is, I think one thing that is potentially a problem for them in that way like in, you know, in, in that matchup. You know, obviously even in that game, Donovan Mitchell only had four attempt, four.
- [29:20]
Brian Windhorst
Foul shot attempts to keep players off the line, as you said.
- [29:24]
Tim Bontemps
Do.
- [29:24]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Do the Thunder got any guys who get to the line a lot? I. I don't know.
- [29:28]
Tim Bontemps
Well, they got, they got one who gets the line all the time, but the other, the other 14 guys, not. That's where the frustration comes in.
- [29:34]
Brian Windhorst
I was reviewing the. The first game that they played on December 26, Shea had 16 points in the fourth quarter of that game. They were down going into the fourth and the Thunder came back and won it. And chad only took three or Shea only took three official shots in the fourth quarter, that 16.4 quarter. So you, you do, you, you deserve.
- [29:55]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, you do the math.
- [29:56]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
By the way, the guy who is taking the most free throws on the Pacers during the playoffs is Pascal Siakam at 4.7 per game. Shay's average 9.2 per game. So almost twice as.
- [30:08]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean the pace. Right. The Pacers are, the Pacers are a pretty heavy jump shooting team. They're not a very physical team in terms of getting to the line. They do some of the same stuff as the Thunder, like Aaron Nesmith's a very physical defender, Andrew Nemhardt's pretty physical defender. But you know, getting to the line and getting, you know, trying to win that possession game there I think is pretty critical. The Cavs out Reap got 12 offensive rebounds in that game, 12 to 9 advantage. And offensive rebounds points off turnovers was 21 to 19 in favor in favor of the Thunder. But still you're basically at a draw.
- [30:42]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
If you're close to even that stat against the Thunder, you've done really well.
- [30:45]
Tim Bontemps
And the two team shot, they both shot 90 shots which as we've talked about a lot, the Thunder, so much of what the Thunder do is game is game towards winning the math, winning the possession game. So you didn't. The Cavs shot the same number of shots. They shot more free throws. So they ended up having more possessions and they shot 42% from the line or from the three point line and the Thunder were 11 for 31. So and with all that being said, it was a five point game. So you know, this is, this is the challenge of playing Oklahoma City. But again, if you're, you know, and I think obviously we spent a lot of time talking about what can the Pacers do to make it competitive. That's because the vast consensus is going to be the series shouldn't be very long, it shouldn't be very competitive. So if you're looking at it as a neutral saying or as a Pacer fan saying, all right, what's the, what's the case for our team? Those are the things you have to really lean into to try to beat this team. And that's why I think it's going to be really hard because they're just, we, this other team was 68 and 14 for a reason. There's, they're one of seven teams that ever won 68 games like, but there's a reason they were that good with the injuries and everything else they had. They're, they're a dominant team that as you said before, McMahon, they, they really don't have any weaknesses at all.
- [31:58]
Brian Windhorst
McMahon. If the Pacers look really closely at the Denver series Which you covered. And I realized they're not comparable at all in terms of personnel. But what do you think? Like, if the Pacers employed you to be a consultant, what would you say to them? What do you have in that series?
- [32:12]
Tim Bontemps
I'd operate Nicole Jokic. Don't call the city. That's what I would do. Find a way to sneak him out of the team.
- [32:17]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Yeah. Draft a Serbian big man during a Taco Bell commercial.
- [32:20]
Tim Bontemps
I just.
- [32:21]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Honestly, man, like, everything the Nuggets do revolves around Joker. So, I mean, I'm sure Rick and his staff have studied the hell out of it, and there's probably a reason that he's never asked me to be a consultant for him. Maybe they can find some things. I've offered him some advice in the past, I bet. I don't know, man. That Nugget series, like, seriously, like, the Nuggets made that a series because Joker's just that damn good.
- [32:50]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. Jokic made it a series.
- [32:52]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. Yeah.
- [32:53]
Tim Bontemps
No disrespect to David Adelman or Aaron Gordon, who played great, or Jamal or anybody else, but that. That series went seven games because they have Nicole Jokic, and he is inevitable. And he almost was inevitable to the Thunder, but, yeah, you know, like. Yeah, that's the challenge.
- [33:07]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Game one. He just absolutely feasted on the glass. You know, they had that crazy come. And, you know, I will say that is one thing that we probably should point out. You know, maybe there's some stuff with the clutch execution in that series that especially early on, the first two Thunder losses were. Were clutch losses. Right.
- [33:28]
Tim Bontemps
And the Pacers have proven to be very good in those situations.
- [33:31]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Well, the Pacers are the best comeback team. I mean, I think they can make a case that the best comeback team in recent memory, certainly in the playoffs, even in the regular season. Now, as that's the problem with the Thunder got better because of that series. They got better over the course of that series. You know, I remember we were talking to Alex Caruso, and it was 2:1, and he said, I wanted to see Denver. I knew Denver was going to be the team that would push us to greatness, like, kind of their peak greatness that, you know, because of their intelligence, because of their experience. And the. The Thunder really struggled in the clutch in game one and game three, losing those games. And you remember Shay was walking off the floor after Game three, kind of this big smile, and I asked him about him. You know, he said, hey, I. You know, the fans were talking trash. Didn't want them to think they were Rattling me that I was rattled all. And he said I was. I'm paraphrasing, but basically I was smiling because I know I get an opportunity in the next game and the game after that, and then those next two games, Shea in particular. But the Thunder as a team really were kind of masterful down the stretch of close games. So again, maybe there's some stuff in, in the clutch execution and, and bogging down the Thunder in those clutch situations that the Pacers can take out of that series. But I also firmly believe in the Thunder, firmly believe that they were better because of the experience they had to go through during that series against Denver.
- [35:06]
Tim Bontemps
Well, that's the hard part, too. It's like, okay, Nicole Jokic, phenomenal rebounder, good at getting to the line, right? Like, two of the ways you beat the Thunder are you win the free throw line battle and you crash the boards. Well, the Pacers don't have a lot of guys that get to the line and they're not a very good rebounding team. So, like, those are places where you can really gouge the Thunder at times if you play it right. And the paces aren't really equipped to do that. So they have to try to win this series by leaning into the things they're really good at. And the problem is most of them, the Thunder are better. And that's where a lot of this, I think, does come back down to the thing you said earlier in the pod, Brian, which is as reductive as it is. They just have to be flamethrowers from three, and they have to just try to win that margin by as much as they can, because that is the one place where you look at the two teams that say the Thunder are capable of shooting 28 from three for a while. And the Pacers have shown during the playoffs, they've been the best three point shooting team in the playoffs by a lot. And if that gap continues, that's a bunch of points that Thunder have to make up every game. And that is where they could make some head.
- [36:08]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
You know, the other thing Denver did in that series that I could see Carlisle trying to borrow or build on is, is they played a ton of zone defense. And yeah, the Thunder struggled with it. Now, again, the fact that the Thunder.
- [36:24]
Brian Windhorst
Saw it, they were better against it against Minnesota.
- [36:27]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [36:27]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
And they were better against it certainly in game seven of that series. You know, Now, Aaron Gordon being on one wheel was also a factor. But again, I go back to the fact that they saw it so much and they struggled against it. And it was kind of this hump that they had to get over this challenge, this test they had to pass. I think makes it tougher. But, you know, if you're asking me what can they take from the Nuggets potentially, you know, I, I, I'm sure that they're, you know, we all know Rick's got him.
- [36:58]
Tim Bontemps
Like, Lee is one of the first guys to do run zone defenses in the league. I mean, he ran a bunch in that, I mean, in that 2011 finals, he went to a bunch like, yeah.
- [37:06]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
You know, he's had a few days or how many days will it be between what will be five? I think four or five. He'll, he'll have time to, you know.
- [37:16]
Tim Bontemps
They knew the Thunder were coming before that, so they, I'm sure they were spending at least some time thinking about the Thunder before that because every, that's just a natural thing you have to do in that situation.
- [37:25]
Brian Windhorst
All right. We had a surprise, at least a surprise to me. But Bontemps broke the story changed at the top. No.
- [37:34]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Oh.
- [37:35]
Brian Windhorst
All right. On Monday, there was a big announcement that came from the Utah Jazz, but Tim Bontemps broke the news a few minutes before with Sham Strania that Austin Ainge was leaving his assistant general manager job with the Boston Celtics, where he won a ring in 2024, and becoming the president of basketball operations of the Utah Jazz. Bontemps. I did not know the Jazz were looking for a president of basketball operations. And I think the search was relatively short for various reasons. However, it is a change in One of the 30 people who are in head of basketball operations of each team. And so Austin Ainge gets that job working alongside for not quite sure his father Danny, who, you know, is, it's one of the most famous Utah arguably in sports. Are the two most famous Utah families in sports, the Smiths. Ryan Smith, who owns the, what do they call them, the hockey team, the Mammoth. Okay. They just named him. He owns the, the hockey team and the Jazz and the Anges. Danny Ainge being one of the, one of Utah's great sons of, of for athletes.
- [38:48]
Tim Bontemps
The Miller family is probably still ahead of Brian Smith, I would think.
- [38:53]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
I would say Ryan a little bit more.
- [38:55]
Brian Windhorst
Larry. Larry H. Miller is no longer with us.
- [38:59]
Tim Bontemps
I'm just saying they own the team.
- [39:01]
Brian Windhorst
I don't need to debate.
- [39:02]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
I would say that Ryan Smith's a little bit more front facing, even though his cap faces backwards.
- [39:09]
Tim Bontemps
He certainly is.
- [39:11]
Brian Windhorst
Danny Ainge.
- [39:12]
Tim Bontemps
Danny Ainge is what? It's probably him and Steve Young as the most famous BYU athletes, probably.
- [39:17]
Brian Windhorst
I would agree.
- [39:17]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Uncle.
- [39:18]
Brian Windhorst
Uncle Jim McBan's not coming.
- [39:20]
Tim Bontemps
I don't. I don't think Jim McMahon is in the same convo as those two guys.
- [39:24]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Well, I'll show you what he showed that helicopter the super bowl. Talking trash. But listen, let's just get this, the, the nepotism thing out of the way real quick, right? Because obviously, essentially Ryan Smith made the hire.
- [39:40]
Tim Bontemps
But you could talk about my story, man. No, I'm just kidding. Go ahead.
- [39:43]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
But the, the one thing that I'm gonna say is, look, you can talk about that. You, you know, it's a. An Ang working for an Ange in the chain of command. For sure. Austin, Ange is a qualified hire. You know, when you're talking to people around the league, nobody said you're not going to find somebody who's going to say, hey, this guy doesn't know what he's doing. This guy doesn't have the qualifications to run a front office.
- [40:07]
Tim Bontemps
And part of one of the. He's been. He's been a long standing and respected member of one of the best organizations in the league and has been for a long time and is universally liked and respected.
- [40:18]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, he also worked very hard. Those two things can be true. He was there.
- [40:21]
Tim Bontemps
Correct.
- [40:22]
Brian Windhorst
He coached in the G League for several years. Like, you know, he didn't just walk out of college and become assistant general manager. But that said, his last name is Ange. I mean, he's. But, you know, there's no dodging it. You know, I don't think there was an extensive search here. So.
- [40:35]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
No, Ryan Smith figured out who he wanted to hire and he likes hired family and, you know, he went and got him. You know, Bontempty, you broke the story. Let's your thoughts on the hire. Your thoughts on what? This changes in jet in Jazzland.
- [40:55]
Tim Bontemps
Well, look, I was. I certainly think it's a fascinating move for Ryan Smith to do this. Right. The fact that it comes a couple of weeks after the Jazz had the worst luck possible in the lottery and falling from first to fifth, I think is interesting timing. Right. The Jazz spent all year very creatively making sure they were going to have the worst record in the league. I thought the most interesting thing said at the press conference today was when Austin was asked, I think in a circuitous manner, are you guys. I'll just, I'll just read the question and the answer. What is your philosophy on. For lack of a better term or to be indelicate, tanking or manipulating minutes to player performance in order to achieve better, better lottery odds. And his answer was, you won't see that this year. Now that doesn't mean that the Jazz are going to win 45 games. But what we did see this year was Walker Kessler was like repeatedly being rested and Larry Market in played I think seven games. He played more than seven games, but it felt like seven games.
- [42:05]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Jordan Clarkson had one of those nasty cases of plantar fasciitis that Shay Gildas Alexander had a few years back.
- [42:10]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. So I just think it's interesting that. And look, we'll see what happens. I mean, very famously, Mike Dunleavy Jr. Who has done a great job at the warriors the day he got the job on Monday, I believe, said on the record, we are not trading Jordan Pool. And then within 48 hours had in fact traded Jordan Poole for Chris Paul.
- [42:31]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
What Austin Ames said is like, there's not going to be kind of the, there's not going to be the league investigation worthy minutes finagling and you know, the injury reports that require you to.
- [42:45]
Brian Windhorst
That'S a high bar to clear.
- [42:46]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
It's, you know, it's like, okay, well.
- [42:48]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, the Jazz, the Jazz could easily have a bottom five record in the league next year if they try to win every game. Because as we have, as we just talked about on the last podcast, there are 13 teams at least in the west that are going to enter the season. And I, Portland probably believes this, that believes they'll at least make the play in tournament or can make the play in tournament. Right. So if you're the only one that isn't in that situation, then even if you try to win every game, like Washington pretty much tried to win every game this year, but they were playing four rookies and they were not going to win every game. And so therefore they didn't win very many games.
- [43:27]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
And the other thing is though, like what will the summer transaction cycle look like? Because listen, they had discussions about trading Larry Markin and last summer before giving him the max extension, those just, they never picked up steam. But it wasn't like, you know, there was not a hell no, we won't listen. And I don't see why that would change. You know, I don't think they're going to like reverse course and say, no, we're not taking calls on Collin Sexton and on Jordan Clarkson, on John Collins. So like they could very easily make a move, multiple moves that are long term moves that weaken the roster.
- [44:06]
Brian Windhorst
I'd be surprised if there's anybody on the roster Other than the guy they draft, number five, who would be untouchable.
- [44:11]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Yeah. And then. Yeah, you know, but. But the, the one thing. So the tanking. There's a couple things there. Number one, yeah, they accomplished their goal finish with the best odds. As you pointed out, they finished fifth in the lottery, which, if you look at the odds, if you have the worst record, your most likely spot to land is fifth. This was not like some bad.
- [44:31]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, that's what Will Dawkins, the. The GM of the wizard, said. I mean, he was putting a little bit of lipstick on a pig, but he was like, but it's true.
- [44:38]
Tim Bontemps
You have a 50% chance of finishing.
- [44:42]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
The fact of the matter is the league has tried to make it as unfavorable as possible to tank, and that blew up in the face of the teams that were the biggest tankers this year, with the exception of the top Sixers. But, you know, so the Jazz lived through that. Realized, well, damn, the most likely odds was the worst case scenario, given the possibilities. And that's exactly where we landed. And there's definitely some feeling within the organization of, damn, how much did we sacrifice? Real player development. Not quote, unquote, BS player development, but real player development by intentionally not trying to compete, by not putting, you know, these guys in, in situations where you're really actually trying to win, even if you don't have a better team, even if you have a much worse team, you know, by being, Hell, I'm just going to say, by being dishonest about the, the players that you're putting on the floor. I mean, really, that's what tanking is. And so how much real player development are you sacrificing? And then what's like the, what is the long term detriment to that? Like, those are conversations that have to be had, you know, about that whole process, especially given the, the results that they got out of it.
- [46:12]
Tim Bontemps
Well, and look, Austin Ainge worked with Will Hardy in Boston. Those guys know each other. He obviously knows his father quite well. Yes, Will Hardy's not going anywhere. He's obviously worked for his father for a long time. He, you know, Justin Zanuck is as good a dude as there is in the league. Those guys, I think will work together very well.
- [46:31]
Brian Windhorst
Is a year off of, you know, transplant surgery to save his life. And I think is not necessarily. I don't want to speak for him, but I mean, Justin Zanuck is very good at his job. He's extremely well liked. Not sure his number one priority in life is to make sure he's collabor, you know, collected the most power.
- [46:52]
Tim Bontemps
Well, look, those guys are just going to work together. Well, I, I don't think that's going to be. I think that'll be a good partnership. Like, Ryan Smith has invested in the team. Like, I think the Jazz organizationally are in good shape overall. But at the end of the day, like, I mean, McManu hit on it, right? They went through this year of misery to get Cooper flag or hopefully if not Cooper flag, Dylan Harper didn't get one of those guys. Now, the NBA Finals are a prime example of how you don't have to have the first pick in the draft to get a guy who could change your franchise. And this is a very good draft. So maybe they'll draft somebody at 5 who becomes a superstar. It's certainly possible.
- [47:29]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
By the way, the bet teams in Jazz history, Donovan Mitchell, 13th overall pick. Carl Malone, 13th overall pick. Stockton 16, Gobert 27. But yeah, to your point, like the only top three picks, I believe in this entire Finals, at least the only ones who are making them. The only, the only one who's making an impact is Chet.
- [47:49]
Tim Bontemps
He's the only one. He's the only one period. Highest player picked of any kind on the Pacers by them or someone else has been Matheran, who I believe was picked six or seven.
- [47:57]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
And now, you know, listen, it was the OKC tanker to get them, but it was the, the, Well, I know, sensitive subject, but it was the really the Paul George trade and the ripple effects from Paul George trades and the ripple effects from both of those.
- [48:13]
Tim Bontemps
Right.
- [48:14]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
That laid the foundation here. That's how Halberton eventually got to to Indy and that's how Shea and Williams got to to okc. And by the way, none of those guys were single digit lottery picks. They were all no in 12 in that range.
- [48:34]
Tim Bontemps
But the thing about, if you, like I said, I think the Jazz are really strong organizationally from everywhere except on the court right now. And I don't mean that facetiously like they've got a really good head coach, they've got a really good front office. I think Ryan Smith since taken over the team has proven to be a guy who's active in a positive way. He's investing in the team. They're, they're like everything there I think is positive. But the bottom line is the roster is obviously not in a very strong place. They do, I think, to your point, McMahon, have a real decision to make on what they want to do with Larry Markkanen. And is he a guy who's going to be part of the next really good Jazz team or should they go in another direction and move him on? And look, we are looking at this team in the Thunder that very well could be the dominant force in the league for the next few years. Right. We'll see what happens. You can't look into a crystal ball and know what's going to happen, but they're as well positioned to run the league for a while as any team in recent memory, probably going back to the the nascent stage of the warriors run. So if you're the Jazz last year.
- [49:35]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Celtics, but well, but this last year Celtics were not.
- [49:39]
Tim Bontemps
No, but I just mean last year. It's fair to say that about last year Boston team to a point, but that Celtics team had a bit of an expiration date. They were going to be really good for a couple more years, but not several. Right. So Utah, if you're the Jazz and you're any team in the west, why you keep harping Brian on why? If you're Giannis, you'd be if you're looking for control, as you like to say, control would be to go stay in the east. Right. If you're the Jazz and you're looking up at all these teams in the west that all are loaded for bear just trying to get in the playoffs, that it's a very tall hill to climb to get the team to a place where it's going to be a playoff caliber team. And you know, it's not even if whatever they try to do, it's not an overnight fix like it's going to take some time and some hits on these draft picks. They have two in this year's draft, five and 21 in the first round. And you know they've got to start hitting on draft picks. They've got to start making some moves and figuring things out because it's they've got a lot of picks, they've got a good front office, they've got a great coach. Like there's a lot of things I think to be optimistic about overall, but the end of the day it's a player league and their talent has a ways to go before they can realistically be a playoff team in the West.
- [50:50]
Brian Windhorst
All right, let this, let the record show. We did an entire segment on the Jazz during NBA Finals week.
- [50:55]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
Why would we do that?
- [50:56]
Brian Windhorst
All right, before we go, our condolences to our producer Jackson Agelo's grandfather, Carl Agello, who passed away this week. Carl's 92 years old, powerhouse, former attorney general of the state of Connecticut. That's where the Agelo family power base floated.
- [51:16]
Tim Bontemps
Has his own Wikipedia page. That's a big deal.
- [51:18]
Brian Windhorst
Do not mess with the Agelos.
- [51:20]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
I was saying. Now I know why Jackson runs his podcast with such a.
- [51:25]
Brian Windhorst
Jackson, Was he a Sally's or. Or a. Was he. Was Sally's his favorite pizza?
- [51:33]
Tim Bontemps
Sally's for sure.
- [51:34]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, Sally's. Okay. Jackson took me to Sally's last year. I think I like Pepe's better.
- [51:42]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
There's some controversy.
- [51:43]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I might be now. I've. Now I've just done it in Hartford. Now I. Or now or not Hartford, but New Haven. Now I'm screwed in New Haven. Anyway, our condolences to you, Jackson, but I never met Carl, but I'm sure he was proud of you, so. And thank you for all your efforts on who Collective. And thank you to Jackson, of course. Thank you, Jackson. Thank you to Bon Sampson McMahon. Thank you for watching listening to Hoop Collective. We're going to be talking to you on game days starting for game one, and we're going to be all together. And God knows how that's going to go. Letting McMahon loose for days on end in Oklahoma City. What could go wrong?
- [52:16]
Bam Adebayo McMahon
No, I'm getting on the. I'm getting on the right side of the Red River. All they want to talk about there is how crappy the Sooner's football program is. Looking forward to that. Hook them and adios, amigos.