Jokic Injury Impact + LeBron No All-Star Selection Possible? & Knicks New Depth

Summary

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Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: Jokic Injury Impact + LeBron No All-Star Selection Possible? & Knicks New Depth

Date: December 31, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Brian Windhorst is joined by Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to break down the ripple effects of Nikola Jokic's knee injury, the potential for LeBron James to miss All-Star selection for the first time in two decades, and the surging depth of the New York Knicks. The crew dives into injury analysis, how All-Star and awards eligibility rules are shaping NBA debates, and what emerging trends might define the league as 2025 turns to 2026. The episode delivers classic Hoop Collective banter—with some memorable trash talk and “Cavs Corner”—while hitting the biggest NBA narratives of the moment.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Jokic Injury and Denver Nuggets Outlook

(Starts ~03:34)

• Jokic’s Injury Context & Timeline:

  • Jokic suffered a hyperextended knee after a collision with teammate Spencer Jones, underwent an MRI, and is expected to be out at least a month ("projected to be out a month, which is at minimum" – Windhorst, 03:34).
  • Injury is likely a bone bruise (not ligament damage). Healing timeline is “inconsistent.”

• Impact on Denver’s Season:

  • Key starters Aaron Gordon, Christian Braun, and Cam Johnson are also injured.
  • Nuggets could complete a 7-game road trip without four starters, threatening their place in the West’s top 6.
  • "If they can be anywhere near 8 and 16 or 9 and 15 if he's out till the All Star break…that’s about all you can hope for." – Bontemps, 06:26

• Big Picture for Denver:

  • Historically, Nuggets win 29% of games without Jokic (Bontemps, 05:23).
  • Their defensive and offensive performance drops precipitously without him—“they’re 16 or 18 points per 100 worse when he doesn’t play” (05:53).
  • The Western Conference seeding will be chaotic; a potential 1st-round Denver vs. OKC matchup comes into play (06:53).
  • “A lot of making it through a season...is just pure luck. This injury was just really bad luck.” – Bontemps, 08:21
  • Windhorst: “Jokic was having the best season of his career, and he’s a three-time MVP.” (10:05)

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Awards Eligibility & Jokic’s MVP Case

(11:46 & 13:02+)

• 65-Game Rule Controversy:

  • Jokic could miss too many games to qualify for MVP or All-NBA, despite his performance.
  • Discussion about the fairness and intent of the 65-game rule: was it about “load management” or the real value of games played?
  • “If we get to the end of the season and Jokic and [Giannis] and Victor Wembanyama are all ineligible for awards, there’s going to be a whole lot of hollering about the 65 game rule.” – Bontemps, 16:21

• Should Voters Decide?

  • Windhorst: “The MVP should be determined by the voter.” (14:22)
  • Bontemps disagrees, stating that voters already factor in games played, and the rule simply codifies prevailing logic.

• Potential for Changing the Rule:

  • If “critical mass” of superstars are rendered ineligible, CBA may amend the rule (16:35).
  • “It has achieved what they have wanted, which is to have guys playing in more games.” – Windhorst, 17:10

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All-Star Voting Shakeups and Format Changes

(21:13+)

• New All-Star Format:

  • 24 All-Stars divided into two American teams and one International team; voting is now for five players per conference, regardless of position.
  • Questions raised about how swing players (e.g., Karl Towns, OG Anunoby) will be classified—“all just fudging the numbers” (23:03).

• LeBron’s Fading Fan Vote:

  • Luka Doncic leads all All-Star voting; LeBron is ninth in the West, jeopardizing a streak of 20 consecutive All-Star starts (24:39; 26:12).
  • “For the first time in 20 years…LeBron’s not going to be a starter.” – Bontemps, 26:12
  • “It’s just a little window into where LeBron’s popularity might be right now.” – Windhorst, 29:00
  • Even if not selected, panel agrees Adam Silver is likely to appoint LeBron as a legacy pick (26:43).

• Fan Vote Oddities:

  • Deni Avdija’s high vote totals (especially above LeBron and Durant) attributed possibly to support from Israel (25:23).
  • “Jaylen Brown’s got 60% more votes than LeBron James.” – Windhorst, 28:40

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Knicks Depth, Mike Brown’s Impact, & Bench Breakouts

(36:07+)

• Knicks Depth Emerging:

  • Knicks recently played 12 rotation players (39:01), including multiple successful second-round picks.
  • “The development of a reliable bench is a pretty key factor in their chances.” – MacMahon, 42:03
  • Mike Brown’s plan to make the Knicks less Brunson-centric and develop depth is working—Tyler Kolek, Mohamed Diarra, and Miles McBride all contributing (39:01–44:05).

• Championship-or-Bust Expectations:

  • High expectations after reaching the Conference Finals; “If the Knicks lose again in the conference finals, it's not going to matter.” – Bontemps, 41:16
  • “They can build all these building blocks in December that they want. But it’s only going to matter if it translates in the spring.” – Bontemps, 44:51

• Roster Construction Praise:

  • Leon Rose and grandmaster scout Walt Perrin credited for Knicks’ deep roster of productive second-rounders (43:09).

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Western Conference Watch: Spurs, Thunder, and “Eating the Cheese”

(46:15+)

• Spurs’ Ups-and-Downs:

  • Spurs beat OKC three times in 12 days but have suffered “letdown” losses to the Jazz and Cavs, showing their inexperience and volatility (46:53–47:59).
  • “What the Spurs have shown us is how high their ceiling is. But…dealing with success can be a challenge, too.” – MacMahon, 47:31

• Classic Bill Parcells NFL Analogies:

  • MacMahon references “don’t eat the cheese”—getting complacent after wins (46:15).
  • “Letting people gas you up, whatever you want to call it.” – MacMahon, 48:45

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Jokic’s Injury Luck:
  “A lot of making it through a season…is just pure luck. This injury was just really bad luck.”
  – Tim Bontemps [08:21]

• 65-Game Rule Threatening MVPs:
  “If we get to the end of the season and Jokic and [Giannis] and Victor Wembanyama are all ineligible for awards, there’s going to be a whole lot of hollering about the 65-game rule.”
  – Tim Bontemps [16:21]

• On Fan Voting: “Jaylen Brown’s got 60% more votes than LeBron James. I just want to be clear. This is not a commentary on LeBron’s season so far. This is LeBron freaking James and Kevin Durant, by the way.”
  – Brian Windhorst [28:40]

• On Knicks Depth and Bench:
  “The development of a reliable bench is a pretty key factor in their chances of doing that.”
  – Tim MacMahon [42:03]

• Parcellsism for Young Teams:
  “Don’t eat the cheese and put away the anointing oil. I think both of those fit in this case and certainly we were…dousing those Spurs with anointing oil.”
  – Tim MacMahon [46:15]

• Luka Doncic Trash Talk Moment:
  “He said to Dennis Schroeder…‘You should have signed that contract.’”
  – Brian Windhorst [31:22]

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Important Timestamps

• 03:34 — Detailed breakdown of Jokic's injury and Denver's predicament
• 05:23 — Nuggets' record and performance without Jokic
• 16:21 — 65-game rule could make major stars ineligible for awards
• 21:13 — All-Star voting format explained and complications discussed
• 26:12 — Bontemps: “LeBron's not going to be a starter in the All-Star Game”
• 39:01 — Knicks’ new-found depth and Mike Brown’s rotation
• 42:03 — MacMahon: Depth could be a key factor for the Knicks’ playoff run
• 46:15 — MacMahon’s “don’t eat the cheese” lesson on handling success (re: Spurs)

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Tone & Flow

The episode is conversational, analytical, and peppered with light-hearted anecdotes and jabs—a hallmark of the Hoop Collective. Windhorst and Bontemps keep the analysis basketball-nerdy, while MacMahon brings in colorful metaphors and football references. Despite the serious implications of Jokic's injury and the All-Star shakeup, the hosts maintain a playful, insightful tone that hardcore NBA fans will appreciate.

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Transcript

[Wendy Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Wendy Bontemps]

Hello.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday evening. Joining us from New York City is Tim Von Temps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas. Just back from Oklahoma City, where he was at a Thunder game on Monday is Ben McMahon.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Howdy, partners. Just back from a delicious dinner. Belly full, Nick and Sam's. Wendy Bontemps. You've been there. Delicious. Might be a little sleepy. Ate that much.

[Tim Bontemps]

I have not been to Nick and Sam's. That's a. That's a window in the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's not true. I've been there with you.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I was going to say, didn't we take him there during the playoffs?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

With a prominent agent, which I don't know if. Did we send the bill to espn? We should have.

[Wendy Bontemps]

We did. Or at least I did. I can't speak for you guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bontem says no recollection.

[Tim Bontemps]

I genuinely do not remember that.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Oh, no. Bontem's ditched just that night.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, really? For a more prominent agent. I see.

[Wendy Bontemps]

We'll discuss later.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim Bontemps]

I doubt that.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Anyway, so we had some unfortunate. I don't know if it's unfortunate. Fortunate. I really was affected viscerally by watching Nikola Jokic hobble off the court on Monday night in Miami after getting landed on by teammate Spencer Jones and pretty clearly hyperextending his knee. Did the MRI in Miami on Tuesday before traveling to Toronto. I think the Nuggets were probably looking to delay their flight from Miami to Toronto. I say this is a native of the Great Lakes and a fan of the city of Toronto. I think they were probably looking to delay their flight, but not for this. I don't think anybody enjoyed waiting for the mri. But on the bright side, and in talking to some folks to Denver today, there was a lot of relief. They felt pretty good on Monday night that he had avoided a serious injury. But you have the MRI to know it. And so he's projected to be out a month, which is at minimum. At minimum. As our buddy Jeff Staats another shout out to him. He noted Today that hyperextension is not the injury, it's what happened to the knee. The injury is, is what happens due to the hyperextension. And so the Nuggets didn't announce this, but if there's no ligament damage, being out four weeks is probably a bone bruise. And so bone bruises are a little bit inconsistent in how they heal. So this is the injury to Cam Johnson. His teammate last week also had a bone bruise in his knee. That injury, if you watched it, not that I want to compare the these things looked a little bit more severe. So I don't know. They said four to six weeks on Cam. They said a month for Jokic. Either way, in the short term, there's never a good time for an injury. But the Nuggets are two games into a seven game road trip. They lost the first two games. When they play in Toronto on Wednesday on New Year's Eve, they are going to be without four of their starters. Aaron Gordon has been out for three weeks with a hamstring, although he's getting closer. Christian Brown has been out, I think roughly a month with a bad ankle sprain. He's also playing, I believe, practicing. So he's getting closer and obviously Cam and Jokic. And so the thing is Bontemps, like Denver is in third place. They've done a really good job sort of hanging in there despite the injuries. Although they're 10 and 7 since Cordon went out, they're doing okay but not great. They're already losing a little bit of ground. They're only as is in the Western Conference. They're only three games clear in the loss column. From the so really if you're, if you're Denver, I think what you're hoping is you get your four starters back and you're still in the top six. You know, that's a realistic thing I think, going forward for them.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I think that's, that's really, to me, the only thing that Denver can be focused on is trying to avoid being in the play in. I mean, I think if we're being realistic about this Jokic injury, the most likely outcome is that he is back after the All Star break four weeks from now when he gets reevaluated. It's about two weeks after that until the All Star break. It's very, I'm not going to say it's a perfect analog to every time you see one of these things, but for people that don't necessarily know or the casual fan that's listening when they say you're going to be reevaluated in four weeks. It usually doesn't mean you walk back on the court in four weeks. And if they give Jokic a couple extra weeks and then a full week with the All Star break, he gets almost eight weeks to recover from this thing and then come back for the final 25 games of the season. It would seem to make sense that if they're going to be cautious with him, which there's no reason not to be, their whole season depends on him being right that he's going to be out for six weeks. That means he would miss 24 games if he miss out to the All Star break. And over the past four years they've gone a combined 13 and 23 in games Yokich has missed. That's a 29 win pace in over 24 games. That's nine and 15 as a record. So to me, if they can be anywhere near 8 and 16 or 9 and 15 if he's out till the All Star break and they have to play all these games on the road, especially early on without four of the five starters, we'll see. David Adelman said before the Heat game Monday that Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown could be back by the end of the road trip. So there's at least some light at the end of the tunnel, maybe get a couple of those guys back. But I mean we've talked about it a ton. I mean beyond the fact that Jokic is having a historic season, even by his standards, they're 16 or 18 points per 100 worse when he doesn't play. And it's they're they're going to be way underwater. Like Jonas Valachunas is not a starting caliber center at this point and he's the only real center they have on the roster. So it's going to be a struggle. They got to try to fight through it and get a few wins. And I mean I think the team that's probably rooting the most for them to avoid the play and frankly are the Oklahoma City Thunder, because I think the last thing the Thunder want to see is a 1A first round series with Denver, which now at least I think becomes in play depending how long Jokic is going to be out. And on the other hand, there is a world where, let's say Denver falls to six. If you're Oklahoma City, you could get to the end of the regular season and see your three biggest rivals in the conference all on the other side of the bracket. So there's going to be a lot of eyes at Least from my vantage point looking at where Denver is in.

[Brian Windhorst]

The state, it's probably impossible to have any prediction. But. But.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I just like last year and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Many years, there's going to be a winner and a loser and some in the seating in the west. There's, you know, somebody's road is going to be brutal.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's four teams I think that we've thought for a while now are caught above everybody else and there's a, there's at least an open possibility now the three of them are on the other side of the bracket.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Who are the four okc, Denver, Houston and San Antonio. Oh, you've thought the spurs for a while because the restaurant where I ate tonight. Well, you won't be in Dallas anytime soon.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it will not be that. Will not be in Dallas for a while.

[Wendy Bontemps]

It'll be that caliber restaurant that I will be dining on your dime because of the spurge. That's how high you were on this bird going.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think it'll be as many dollars as your dinner.

[Brian Windhorst]

You think that. Yeah, I was going to say when is he going to be in Dallas to.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah, I was going to say it'll be probably an OKC because I still think the Thunder are going to go to the finals. Although there's a lot of basketball to be played in the spring.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and look, and this, in this Jokic, in this Jokic injury, like Jokic never gets hurt, right? Like he's always, he's always available, he's always healthy, he's always awesome. And you know, this is just, this is just a reminder that a lot of making it through a season and winning the title and or being in contention for it is just pure luck. And like this injury was just really bad luck. There's nothing else to be said for it.

[Wendy Bontemps]

It was, but it wasn't the worst luck because there's no ligament damage. It's not a season ending thing. He's out a month or more, but not for the season. As you said. Based on their four week evaluation timetable, you at least feel confident he's going to be back after the All Star break. They're getting Gordon and Christian Brown back soon. You know, those guys came through Dallas recently and I was told then Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown had already started, you know, playing scrimmaging or like playing three on three, that, that sort of stuff. I got a little glimmer of good news here. Little stat good news. Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown when they're on the floor together, 171 minutes. A + 14.3 net rating. Now a little bit of not so good news. Nicole Jokic was on the floor with them for 170 of those 171 minutes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right? Well, that's the thing. Like the reason that they've been able to keep their head above water is because of Jokic.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, with all due respect to some of their ancillary players having yeah.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Look at Christmas night the guy's got a 50 whatever point triple double. I mean they lost the other night when he went I think 34, 21 and 12. Nicole Jokic was having the best season of his career.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's.

[Wendy Bontemps]

And he's a three time mvp. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this Come.

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[Brian Windhorst]

So yes, I was talking to some producers at SportsCenter. We ended up junking this segment, but we were going to do a segment today. I was talking to him about it yesterday. About like for the casual fan, you know, who may be coming into the NBA. Haven't watched that much because NFL season's coming to an end here, and they were talking to me about what storylines I would tell the casual fan, which is not our audience. Obviously, if you listen to this podcast, you're a hardcore fan, you're a big basketball nerd. But, you know, and, you know, actually, I would be interested to know what you guys would say would be the storylines. But one of them, actually, McMahon, I said was how good Cooper Flag has been. But I was saying that the generational MVP race that we were potentially having, not only because of the tremendous stats that Jokic and SGA put up, but also because the Bontemps poll had them so close, and the fact that, you know, there's four MVPs between them, you know. You know, two finals MVPs between them, you know, like, it's, you know, heavyweights in their primes and both having the.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Best seasons of their careers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And I mean, it's. I guess it's still possible that Jokic could come back on the front end if he.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, if he misses four weeks, he comebacks four weeks from today. He'd missed 16 games, so, you know, it can only miss one the rest of the year.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Now, this game, he played 19. That. So that would, like you.

[Tim Bontemps]

It would still count. It would still count, though, the way they do it. Like, if he played 64 games, that would.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah, and I would count a game when you. A guy's got 21, 5 and 8.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, that game would count, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it would count.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bon Temps wasn't when they put this rule out, and I don't think this has happened. Didn't they leave some wiggle room that the league could at their discretion. Wasn't.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, not.

[Brian Windhorst]

I thought there was.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, it's like if. If you're a game short there, if you like it hurt, if you like her a game, if you play 64 qualifying games and you got hurt in the 65th, it would count. But, like, so this. If he misses, if he's out till the Ulster break, he has no chance.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

If he's out till around this four weeks.

[Brian Windhorst]

Gonna rush him to win his fourth mvp.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like, it's.

[Wendy Bontemps]

This is. This is not the intent of that rule. Right. And this is.

[Brian Windhorst]

It actually is the intent of the rule.

[Wendy Bontemps]

No, the intent of the rule was to stop the load, Manager.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I understand that the intent of.

[Tim Bontemps]

The rule was to try to get as many star players to play as many games as possible.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but I Think I'm gonna. I don't want to open an old wound with you two, but, you know, I think that the MVP should be determined by the voter, you know, and that's fine. I.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I disagree with that. I think that. I think the rule. I've thought from the beginning the rule is silly because the voter should be able to decide who they want to vote for. However.

[Brian Windhorst]

But you guys invalidate. Hold on, hold on.

[Wendy Bontemps]

The intent of the rule was to stop the load management, or at least that's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

What do we invalidate the other thing.

[Brian Windhorst]

You guys, If a guy misses a certain amount of time, you guys decided he couldn't win the mvp.

[Wendy Bontemps]

But there's two different conversations here. I stand by that. If a guy misses. If one guy misses 20 games and another guy misses three games and it's close, I'm sorry, the guy who played 17 more games is more value.

[Tim Bontemps]

A lot more value. Yeah, here's where I rubric for.

[Wendy Bontemps]

For this, for Joker and let's say he misses 20 games, 24, whatever it is, for his streak of all NBA appearances to end because his teammate lands on his leg and he, he misses a. A stretch but still plays the majority of the season. That's tough to me because again, he's not a guy who, like there's no load management with Nikola Jokic.

[Brian Windhorst]

Listen, I was called a jackass for making this point four years ago or five years ago.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, that's not, That's. That's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's. No, that is.

[Tim Bontemps]

Exactly. If you want to kind of about.

[Wendy Bontemps]

It, then I'll call you a jackass.

[Tim Bontemps]

A, the rule didn't exist then. B, that was not the content of our discussion at the time.

[Brian Windhorst]

C, we.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, okay, it wasn't about the 65 game rule.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, it wasn't about 65 games. But you guys.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, we understand, we understand. Listen, here's the deal. If we get to the end of the season and Jokic and Yaz Tetekupo and Victor Wembanyama are all ineligible for awards, there's going to be a whole lot of hollering about the 65 game rule.

[Wendy Bontemps]

And potentially Luka Doncic too.

[Tim Bontemps]

And potentially Luka and Steph has missed eight or nine games, there could be a lot of people that are ineligible for rewards. If that happens, we will see if the rule is changed going forward because there will be some sort of critical mass of the CB eligible. Well, they can always amend it. It's not hard to do. If they. They could talk to the players association and amend it. I'm sure the players association would be happy to change it. So it's not. If they decide they want to change it, they can. I would not anticipate that happening because I think it has achieved what they have wanted, which is to have guys playing in more games.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I agree there's a critical mass of huge stars that are not eligible for end of season awards. And to McMahon's point, the All NBA teams and the MVP award is war. And the defense player of the year again, is all warped by guys not being eligible to be on the ballot. Then we'll see if something happens.

[Wendy Bontemps]

But. And I think maybe all these guys will be eligible.

[Tim Bontemps]

Maybe Okic will be back in three weeks and it'll be fine.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I don't know. It won't be three, it'll be four at the earliest.

[Tim Bontemps]

But yeah, I'm just NBA. Really?

[Wendy Bontemps]

That. That's the most glaring here because again, I do think MVP this would factor into that. Regardless. Even if he missed 16 games, I think this factors into the MVP discussion. And by the way, we talked, you know, in our group chat on Christmas night after we got done podcast, we all go watch Joker. Just absolutely dumb. The guy scored 18 in overtime, the highest scoring of all time. And I text you guys this day.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know we said we. I openly admitted we were giving short shrift to the Wolves and Nuggets. And we did. It was unfair.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Listen, it was Christmas. We weren't going to stay up till freaking one in the morning.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sorry.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Wendy Bontemps]

But I text you, I said, dude, I think even since the straw poll that it has shifted back to Joker because also at that point, you know, the Thunder has fallen.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Thunder have lost some games.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Before we move on, a note to the durability of Nikola Jokic. This is his 11th season. In nine of his previous 10 seasons, he played at least 70 games and he played 69 games in one of those years. So basically he's played at least 69 games all year. 10 seasons. The most consecutive games he's missed in his career before now was seven.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Was that last year?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, it was in 2017 with a sprained ankle. And my guess is they probably didn't. You know, if it happened the same sprained ankle happened now, he probably wouldn't have missed seven because back then they probably, you know, didn't rush him back.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah, because last year they shut him down for a little bit when he was dealing with an ankle and his shooting elbow just beat. And that's what I wish I Wish there was a rule where a guy could apply for like a, an exception once every so many years in a case like this, you know, one. Seriously, like one.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is, this is really funny. Like, on one hand you're like, this is unfair. And then the other hand you're like, well, I agree with, I agree with the rule. And you know it does because again.

[Wendy Bontemps]

It'S not just mvp, it's a fight. There's no argument you could trust the voter. No argument you can make about, about Nicole Jovic being an all NBA player. There's no.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree with.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's the logical fallacy of what Window is doing right now. When we had this argument, this infamous argument several years ago on the podcast, this war did not exist. And Tim and I just had a different opinion on how many games played mattered in terms of who people would vote for. Brian now saying, trust the voter. We were just giving our opinion. At least me as a voter. McMahon's not allowed to vote. And we, we gave our opinion on.

[Brian Windhorst]

What it should be.

[Tim Bontemps]

Now we don't have the ability to give our opinion now. It's just if you don't play 65 games, you're not eligible. Doesn't matter what our opinion is. So we are trying to conflate it with the same argument.

[Brian Windhorst]

Was your opinion was if you missed a certain amount of games that you couldn't win.

[Tim Bontemps]

Our opinion was one guy accrued more value with more games. If you were trying to split hairs.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Which again, by the way, this year.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Play 20 plus more games.

[Tim Bontemps]

Which by the way, this year, if it was the same thing. And Nicole Jokic ended up playing 59 games and Shea played 77 games and it was razor thin. You'd probably give the guy who played 18 more games the Edge.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yes. Which is all NBA. And that's my thing for the all NBA. Part of this is where.

[Tim Bontemps]

And he'd also be eligible for the. And he'd also be eligible to be voted for because again, that, that's what it, it should be up to the voters to decide how, how many games people play. But that's not why this rule exists.

[Brian Windhorst]

Speaking of voters, we had the first batch of All Star voting, which is interesting on a number of fronts. A different format, additional segue. Okay, so this week the first batch of NBA all star voting came out. Now the vote. This is a little bit earlier than they typically announce it. I know. I looked up the last three or four years and it was always the first week of January. And also instead of voting by position you just vote for your five preferred players at each conference. And of course, the conferences won't make up the teams. There will be three teams, two teams of Americans and one team of international players. Which. Does that mean there's going to be eight. Eight and eight. Is that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, well, it probably. Well, no, it probably won't be because if it's not Exactly.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, there's 24. Well, there's 24 spots.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hold on, I. Not exactly, because they're going to do the 12 and they're going to do the 12 and if it doesn't match up with the 8, 8 and 8, what are they going to do? They're just going to add more players. Just going to add more players. They'll either get to the 16 or to the 8.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they might have to add LeBron. So we'll talk.

[Tim Bontemps]

They might also.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know if you and I haven't talked to League about this Bond temps. Maybe you have. Is Carl Towns going to be regarded as an international player?

[Tim Bontemps]

Carl Towns is going to be a swing player if he makes it. So he could either be an international.

[Wendy Bontemps]

They've said. They've said.

[Tim Bontemps]

Again, this entire thing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's be honest. This entire thing.

[Brian Windhorst]

What about og Anunoby?

[Wendy Bontemps]

It's all based on what's best for divvying up the team.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's just that, yes, it's all just fudging the numbers.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I mean, honestly, like, Jalen Brunson has Jamaican lineage. They could.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, they're not going to do it with Jalen Brunson. Carl Town played for the Dominican national team, so they could. They could like, somewhat justify doing it with Carl Towns.

[Brian Windhorst]

And what about OG and obi?

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't know what they would do with OG either, but at the end of the day, it's. This is because this is a question I asked. I called the league up when they announced this rule change. I had to write a newser about it. And I said, what happens if there's 14 and 10 and 14Americans and 10 internationals, or if there's 18Americans and 6 internationals, are we just going to, like, have a couple random Americans or a random couple internationals? And I was told, no, we'll get to the number when we'll just add more players. So I said, okay, so, you know, whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't. I don't really care. I don't really know. I don't have a strong opinion. I'm not like, you know, it's fine.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's always three or Four players added by injury anyway, so it ends up being 28 All Stars to begin with.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I've joked about shirts and skins, but I do think that the all Star jerseys should be reversible. You know, those reversible jerseys. That way, you know, you don't worry about. Because you can't have three. Like what? I don't know, like the color thing could get weird. So just have reversible jerseys.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so first off, I want to point out Luka Doncic is the number one vote getter. The vote totals are way off what they normally are for the first time, I think because it was a less vote and also because, you know, you don't, you know, you don't vote for individual positions. So Luca is leading Vocator, which, you know, I don't know if you guys are aware, he's a Laker.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Oh, I'd heard that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Which makes the fact that LeBron being.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Ninth in the west, where's wrong among Lakers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he's second, but he's right ahead Austin. He's ahead of Austin. Race.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I knew it was tight there.

[Brian Windhorst]

I wanted to say that there are some wonky. Sometimes you get wonky first returns. And then I went back and looked like the last three or four years, and there wasn't really sort of.

[Tim Bontemps]

Once they changed the rules on this stuff and got rid of the sort of the random entities.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, you have to register. You have to be a registered person on NBA.com.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, that'll limit the votes.

[Brian Windhorst]

That said, like, Danny Avia is having an excellent season for the Blazers. Like, he is absolutely worthy of all star consideration.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Well, I bet you a bunch of those are coming from Israel.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, fair enough. But I just.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not like he's. It's not like he's averaging 12 points a game. No, no, I'm agreeing with you, Brian. So I'm saying he's having an all star caliber season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. I'm just a little bit surprised. Like, I'm not surprised he's ahead of Valparin Sengun. Sengun is still establishing himself as a star player in the NBA.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Cheng, who was an all Star last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

I understand, but for the fan vote, what I'm saying is Denny Avia being ahead in the fan vote of Sengun is surprising, but it's not like jaw dropping. The fact that Denny Avia is ahead of both LeBron and Kevin Durant is interesting.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, even if you want to remove Denny from the mix. Right. Let's just take him part 10. He doesn't exist. At the end of the day, I'm looking at this and I think for the first time in 20 years, at minimum, LeBron's not going to be a starter in the All Star Game. Because if you just do the math, you half the vote is from the Fans. I thought LeBron was going to be leading the voting. I was.

[Brian Windhorst]

I went back and looked. He was leading the west last year on the first return.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was surprised that he wasn't.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I'll be surprised if he's not in the All Star Game. I'll be surprised if Adam Silva.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not saying no, he's going to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Be in the All Star Game. It's in Los Angeles.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah. But I think it's going to be due to a commissioner appointment like Dirk and Dwayne Wade there last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Maybe, maybe, you know, he has to.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Make an All Star season. It won't be, it shouldn't be by the coaches.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I agree. So he, look, he's just got to get top 5. He's 9th. He doesn't have to get top 2 for forwards. He's got to get top 5. He's ninth. Like there's triple votes or whatever. I'm. What I'm saying is Laker, you know, people who like the Lakers. I'm just Luka Ted, you know, like 150% more votes than LeBron. There was a lot of people that voted for Luka that didn't vote for LeBron.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I mean, LeBron missed most of the season and Lucas leading league and scoring.

[Brian Windhorst]

I, I look lamelo ball last year played 10 games and he had like, he was like sixth in the first return.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I mean, he's got a lot of Instagram followers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I think LeBron does too. So TikToks. You know, Mark Spears at Anscape wrote an interesting story that I didn't realize. He went back and looked and you know Michael Jordan, Jordan's last year when he was with the Wizards, he slipped way down in the. He got like, he was like seventh or eighth in the fan vote. And you know, I don't know. The Wizards were a bad team. The Lakers are actually doing pretty well. And I realize LeBron's missed a lot of time, but, you know, this is a fan vote. I mean, if you look at the raw numbers, like Jaylen Brown tweeted. Jaylen Brown is absolutely having an All Star season. He has a strong case to be a starter in the Eastern Conference and maybe he will be when the players and the media vote because he's in sixth, he tweeted about. That's a public relations campaign, which is. And that's his oldest time. You know, popularity. It is a popularity contest. But Jaylen Brown's got six.

[Tim Bontemps]

It is a vote, after all. That is generally what a vote is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jaylen Brown's got 60% more votes than LeBron James. I just want to be clear. This is not a commentary on LeBron's season so far. This is LeBron freaking James and Kevin Durant, by the way. Like, Durant is having a great season for a team that is performing well.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah. Durant's a deserving all star this year. LeBron, based on just the performance this season, is not.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. I'm just saying I don't know what it says. And, like, this could correct it itself. I don't actually. I don't know how to use the word correct. I'm not even. I'm not taking a position on whether it's correct or not. I just think it's interesting that the way things are going, that LeBron would be in ninth place in the Western Conference.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I would say that the five guys who are in the top five spots in the All Star voting are who should be starting in the All Star game. If you want to argue that Anthony Edwards have been there instead of Steph, maybe, fine.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Who's the top five? So the top five are Luka Donovich.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nikola Jokic, Steph Curry, Che Gillis, Alexander, Victor Wembanyama, and then Anthony Edwards and then aavia Durant and LeBron.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. And again, I'm not going to lose sleep over this, because even if LeBron isn't selected through the normal process, Adam Silver is going to put him in the All Star. I understand it might be his last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know it's not really a referendum on the All Star format. It's a little window into where LeBron's popularity might be right now. And like I said, it's interesting that Jordan, who is unimpeachable, and I just think it's interesting. You know, obviously Luka is going to have some. Some fans in Europe that are not necessarily LeBron fans. But, yeah, you know, if you're a Laker fan, you know, because, you know, Luka. Luka. You know, Luka was. Was getting good, high vote totals in recent years, but he wasn't leading.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's leading now because he's a Laker, so, you know, he's having a good year. But, you know, so anyway, did Kobe.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Was Kobe voted in every year through the end of his career? Like, once he. Once he became.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'll go look it up. But I would. I would be surprised if he wasn't.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he was.

[Brian Windhorst]

But, yeah, by the way, Luca definitely leads. Another thing. He leads the league in. Or is it near the top in trash talk? Did you see the. When he said to Dennis Schroeder, I saw this.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I saw the hand gesture.

[Brian Windhorst]

So. And I. Protect me on this. Jackson. Maybe it was AI, but I saw a video from courtside the other night against the. I think this is what he said. It looked like this is what he said. It sounded like this is what he said. The Kings were at the Lakers on Sunday night, and Luca was talking trash to Dennis Schroeder, and he said, you should have signed that contract.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I mean, it's a fair statement.

[Brian Windhorst]

How many years ago was that? That was.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Well, and I can tell you, part of the bad blood there is definitely based on national team competition.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Where Dennis Schruger. Say what you want. Dennis Schroeder has bragging rights on Luca.

[Brian Windhorst]

Dennis Schroeder is. Yes. Dennis Schroeder has owned Slovenia in international competition. The Germans are the European and world champions right now, and they. They definitely beat World Cup, Right. Yeah, they definitely beat Slovenia in the World Cup. I don't know if they beat them. I'd have to look in Eurobasket. But, you know, Schroeder is the MVP of both, and Germany is the. Is the. And Schroeder, I think, is, like, pretty much getting benched. But, you know, you gotta. You gotta love Luka talking that trash.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Dude, Luca can talk trash in multiple languages. He probably can talk trash in. Ger wants to go there.

[Brian Windhorst]

I've seen Luca talk trash in Spanish to FIBA officials.

[Wendy Bontemps]

See?

[Brian Windhorst]

So in the East, I'm sure he.

[Tim Bontemps]

Knows a couple words in German that he needs to.

[Wendy Bontemps]

To do that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know a few words in German. In the East, Giannis is leading, which has pretty much been the norm. Tyrese Maxey with a very strong showing, second ahead of Jalen Brunson, who I. Jalen Brunson is pretty close to him and may even overtake him, but that's a.

[Wendy Bontemps]

That shocks me because of the. You know, just the power of the Knicks fan base. That really surprises me.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Cade Cunningham, fourth, Donovan Mitchell, fifth. And then Jalen Brown, as we said before, sixth again.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's probably the five guys that should be starting in the east, too.

[Brian Windhorst]

A lot of guards there. I don't know how.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, it's a lot of guards, but it doesn't matter.

[Brian Windhorst]

We don't even know what teams are going to be on divvied up in a three.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm just saying if you're just looking at the best players in the Eastern Conference this year, those are probably the five best players there.

[Brian Windhorst]

I did look of the top 12 in each conference, I think I counted Carl Towns as an American. I think I radically said the guy who was born and raised in New Jersey is an American. I think there were eight international players. Doncic, Jokic, Shai, Victor, Avia, Giannis and Pascal Siakam.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Pascal Siakam, is that right?

[Brian Windhorst]

He was ninth.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I think your math just confused the hell out of me.

[Tim Bontemps]

You said top 12. I went through it today with an. I went through it today with an executive and we got to at least eight international players.

[Wendy Bontemps]

You're saying top 12 on both sides.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Top 12 on both. I mean, not that the top. You know, Normally there are 12 All Stars in each conference. Yes, there are some injury replacements, but typically there are 12 all stars selected in each conference. So if you look at the top 12.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

I see on each side there are in fact 8 international. I did not count, you know, Carl Towns. So in other words, they're not going to have to, you know, based on this, you're not going to probably.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think if anything there's going to be too many. There's going to be more internationals. I'll have to add Americans would be my guess.

[Brian Windhorst]

But yeah, because I think Shen Goon and Jamal Murray have strong cases.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, Jamal Murray.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Murray.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is.

[Wendy Bontemps]

He's not been an All Star. He absolutely should be an All Star this year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And again, I don't know if you count OG Anunoby, but OG Anunoby has, you know, he's got a. He's got a shot. You know, he's. I don't know. I don't know what they're going to, where they're going to, what they're going to count him as, but they could certainly count him as international player. So we'll see. The second voting is relatively quickly. It's next week. It's a week from now, January 6th. I guess it's a little, little over a week and we'll see if it changes. And they're. They triple the votes and so, you know, people are home. Maybe they're going to do it. But the voting may be more interesting than the game.

[Wendy Bontemps]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Hi there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Surprise.

[Wendy Bontemps]

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Wendy Bontemps]

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[Tim Bontemps]

Can you imagine the impact of young.

[Brian Windhorst]

Black boys and girls looking.

[Tim Bontemps]

Is that going?

[Wendy Bontemps]

I feel seen. He changed the culture. He changed sports Stream. Booyah. Presented by Modelo Right now on the ESPN app. Talk about stepping up.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Wendy Bontemps]

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

For More on the ESPN app or at stream.espn.com sign up now. Big slate of NBA games on New Year's Eve in the afternoon and one of them is spicy little game in San Antone with the New York Knicks visiting. Although injury update for the Knicks. Mitchell Robinson out with ankle soreness which is something that is.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, they help him out with ankle injury management which to be fair to the Knicks, they have said throughout the season he's going to take periods of time off and they have played a whole bunch of games including winning the cup. So they're trying to give him a break. We'll see if that ends up being his or not.

[Brian Windhorst]

But it might be multiple games.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's already his second game in a row that he's missed.

[Wendy Bontemps]

But.

[Tim Bontemps]

But there's just. Just so that you know, that's at least what they're saying. So.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Well, we'll see where it's the injury too. Dev of a cell has a. An adductor strain.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, the spurs have great perimeter depth. The spurs have lost two games in a row following their three victories over the Thunder. They lost to the Jazz the other night and then the Cavs came in and Cavs had one of their best wins of the year. One in San Antonio and a nice.

[Tim Bontemps]

Bounce back from getting beat around by the Rockets to take down the. Take down the Spurs.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will say one thing that the Cavs certainly had game planned was notice.

[Tim Bontemps]

How this turned into Cavs corner instead of Spurs. Knicks quickly, real quick.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, it could be one win and.

[Tim Bontemps]

We just veer back to Cavs corner.

[Brian Windhorst]

We'll see how the Knicks do themselves. But the way the Cavs played this game, their entire game plan was designed to move Victor out of shot block position. And Donovan Mitchell was really a facilitator in this game. He only had 10 points. And same with Darius Garland. And they put Victor in position where he was chasing guards, which he can absolutely do because of his length. And they just moved him out of the way and threw passes to their big men.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Well, that's something the Thunder felt like they didn't do. Well, you know, you remember after the NBA cup game in Vegas is something Shane mentioned. And then straight up they just didn't hit open threes where Wimby was defending Alex Caruso. Caruso missed his first nine three point attempts.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Wendy Bontemps]

And so they didn't make the spurs pay for keeping Wemby in or close to the paint.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can I say something? Bontemps? So the Pelicans, the Knicks won in New Orleans on Monday night. You know, the Pelicans won five in a row. Now they've lost four in a row. But not trying to say this is some sort of seminal game, but the Knicks played, I believe, 12 players in that game. There was no garbage time.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you know, like this. And look, we're in December and I'm not suggesting that The Knicks play 12 players in May. Okay. But you know, when Mike Brown came in, one of the things he said was he was going to try to make a more dynamic offense that wasn't as based on Jalen Brunson, OG Anunoby and Mikhail Bridges are having more effective offensive seasons. And he said they were going to play more guys and you know, not playing 12 every night, they're using a whole bunch of second round picks that they've had. Tyler Kolik being one of them. Their second round pick from this year. Who? Diaro was picked like 51st or 52nd. He's in the rotation now. So look, I mean, I don't want to, you know, make, you know, final pronouncements on the Knicks process, but you know, when they fired Tom Thibodeau, there was obviously a lot of pushback on that. And then their process to hire Mike Brown was not clean. But Mike Brown is executing the plan that he laid out when he got the job and what he said in the preseason. And the Knicks are playing very good basketball.

[Tim Bontemps]

They are, but it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the new year.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, but if you fire your coach after making the conference finals for the first time in 25 years, there's only one thing that matters which is making the finals. It's not a criticism of Mike Brown. He's doing a great job. He is following through on what he. All the things you said are true, but at the end of the day, if the Knicks lose in the first or second round of the playoffs, or even probably, frankly, with as wide open as the east is, if they lose again in the conference finals, it's not going to matter. So all of this is good and it's building towards, it's all building in, going in a good direction. And Tyler Colic emergence has been a positive development. If Dior can continue to be a player that can be impactful for them off the bench, that is a positive development. Miles McBride's had a really good season building out what he's done in the past. That's a positive development. They've got Mikhail Bridges playing great. He's hitting a ton of shots. That's a positive development. All these things are positive developments. But the Knicks are only going to be judged at the end of the day by how far they get in May and June. And that's just the reality of the situation they're in. And with the Eastern Conference being completely wide open and they are the clear favorites. Simply no disrespect to the Pistons, who've had an awesome season. I think right now they're beating the Lakers. However, the Pistons haven't won a playoff series in almost 20 years. So to say they're the favorites, like they have to show they can do it first. The Knicks have been, have won a playoff series three years in a row. They just made the conference finals. They have a bunch of playoff tested players. They have a coach who's gotten to the finals, who's been on the staff of a championship winning team like they are set up to get there. So they're building all the right habits, they're doing all the right stuff. Mike Brown's following through on what he said. All that is 100% true. But it's going to only matter if these guys are playing against Oklahoma City or San Antonio or whoever in the first week of June in the finals.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yes. But the development of a reliable bench is a pretty key factor in their chances of doing that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Certainly helping, no question.

[Wendy Bontemps]

And glaring weakness. And you know, Miles McBride missing that time might end up being a blessing in disguise because it opened up opportunity for Tyler Kolek, who proved that he without question is ready to be a contributor in the rotation. You know, I would say Jordan Clarkson's been what you expected Jordan Clarkson to be. And that's a guy who's, you know, some nights he's going to light it up off the bench. Some nights he might not have it, but he's at Least a scoring threat off the bench. Yabu Selli has been a disappointment, but I think they've at least got more depth than they've had. More like real depth than they've had. And by the way, you know Wendy, you mentioned 12 guys playing. That's with Josh Hart and Mitchell Robinson out, two of their top.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So guys, listen. So Leon Rose gets a lot of credit for building this Knicks roster. And look, the. Nothing, nothing really matters unless Jalen Brunson. The Jalen Brunson move is the king move, right? It's you, you acquire in free agency an all NBA player like this. But they've got this old master running their scouting, Walt Perrin. And you know, you look at this, you know, Miles McBride, second round pick, you know, second round pick, you know, again, I don't want to say Mohamed Diarra is like, you know, going to all of a sudden just be a rotation player. But he, you know, second round pick. You know, I don't want to get all excited about Ariel Huckporty, but I think he was picked in the 50s and he's been under rotation. Like, you know, we get on teams for not drafting well and the Knicks have traded away a bunch of picks. But like, you know, for the New York Knicks to be stocking their roster with second round picks, yeah, they're doing all the rights.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like they're on. I mean all the right stuff. Like everything you said is right. Like both of you guys, like the depth has been impressive like you said, McMahon. I would say 100%. The McBride injury has been a blessing for the Knicks because he gave Kolik an opportunity and he has shown McBride's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Back now and playing well.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, and he's. But right, but they can play together and like he wasn't probably going to get this kind of opportunity unless McBride got hurt and he had to play and he had some big games and now he's going to play probably consistently in the rotation. And like all these things are good. Like they're doing all the right stuff but like they can build all these building blocks in December that they want. It's. But it's only going to matter if it translates in the spring. And that's, that's what the point of right now is. And it's all trending in a good direction. But like that's the thing that's hanging over the Knicks, right. Like the Pistons. Everything's gravy for the Pistons. Like Pistons get to the conference semifinals, have a tough series and lose. That's an amazing season. They make the conference finals, let alone the NBA Finals. That's an unbelievable season for where they've been. But for the Knicks, this is all about they got to win three series. They got to do it. And that's what Mike Brown has to do. It's what he got hired to do. Because like I said, if Tom Thibodeau it was not acceptable for him to lose in the conference finals for the first time in 25 years, then that was what the barrier for entry was for Mike Brown when he took the job.

[Brian Windhorst]

Fair enough.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's got to make the finals.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, early on, there was some friction with Karl Towns and his shots are down. He is asked to doing a little bit more grunt work. He's still having an excellent season, almost certainly going to be an all star. He's averaging 22 and 12. He and Mike Brown are in a good place right now from what I'm told.

[Tim Bontemps]

And by the way, his shooting has started to come up too. Now he's shooting 36% and from three. And that was not anywhere near 36% at one point. So like his numbers are starting to normalize and he's doing all the Carl Townes things.

[Wendy Bontemps]

His December percentages are really good. It's like 52 and 45.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's such a good shooter and scorer that he wasn't going to be below his percentages forever. And you know, that's I'm told. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, again, we're just doing a December 30th check in, but I'm told all is well on that front. So we'll see. Nick's now that we've said all that, those spurs won by 30. You talked about the group chat earlier, McMahon. You reached into your football background in the group chat. As you were as you were watching the spurs play Cavs corner on on.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Monday night, a couple old parcel isms came to mind. Don't eat the cheese and put away the anointing oil. I think both of those fit in this case and certainly we were boy, we were dousing those spurs with anointing oil. And hey, rightfully so. I mean, they beat the defending champion absolute juggernaut Oklahoma City Thunder three times in 12 days. As old Michael Country Wright called it the 12 days of Christmas for the San Antonio Spurs. And they're banging the drum. Boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Brian Windhorst]

We haven't seen the drum in a while.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

But further guaranteeing us for his win.

[Wendy Bontemps]

On Wednesday, that was why the annoying hole got busted out. They gave us good reason to bust it out. But they ate the cheese, right? And, you know, Mitch Johnson basically said they disrespected the basketball gods when they came out and laid that egg against the Jazz. They, you know, laid another egg against a Cleveland team that certainly has its fair share of issues. And what the spurs have shown us is how high their ceiling is. But when your ceiling's that high, it's one thing to deal with adversity. You hear that a lot. Dealing with success can be a challenge, too. And, you know, like going back to the preseason, being around the Thunder Dagger, talking about the distractions of being the defending champions, you know, was the distractions of knocking off the defending champs a few times in such a short span. And, you know, just dealing with the success, feeling like, okay, you've arrived. Well, this is a prove it every night kind of league. And I think it was.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's.

[Wendy Bontemps]

It shouldn't be shocking. They had that kind of letdown, that kind of set back with a couple of home losses against teams that they should be beating. But it's a reminder this is still a very young team. It's still a team that's, you know, on the, on the climb early in the learning process. And, you know, especially with the talent like Wimby, the highs are going to be awfully high. What's the floor? How consistent can you be? The MVPs are some of the most consistent players in the league, not just some of those dominant players in the league.

[Brian Windhorst]

And eating the cheese, you know, taking the bait, you know, that's what. That's the reference. Like caught in the trap. Yeah.

[Wendy Bontemps]

You know, letting people gas you up, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, Parcells, and he didn't have a lot of success in Dallas, just to be clear. But he was famous for all these things. There was one week where the guy showed up to the practice facility, the players show up at the practice facility, and there's. There's mousetraps hanging from the, from the ceiling of the locker room. Maybe Mitchell.

[Brian Windhorst]

The thing is, what manager had to do that job?

[Wendy Bontemps]

You can, you can do that in their shiny new suite, you know, pretty practice facility. But if you put the mousetraps in the locker room at, at the arena, you probably end up might catch some stuff. Well, yeah, like dead bats and you know, who knows what else might.

[Brian Windhorst]

There was a freaking snake.

[Wendy Bontemps]

I covered that. It was in the Portland Trailblazers locker room during the playoff series. God, I forget who it was. I wish I remember. One of the players in the Blazers wasn't Real fond of snakes. And he, like.

[Brian Windhorst]

Who is real fond of snakes?

[Wendy Bontemps]

Well, this guy, like, shrieked and jumped up on top of the locker.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wait, wait. Were you in there when they saw the snake?

[Wendy Bontemps]

No, but the. The Trailblazers were happy to. I forgot who it was. They were happy to tell us all about the teammate who.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, in the playoffs. It happened in the playoffs. Just like the air conditioning broke in the playoff.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Ah, hey, they do. There's a lot of varmints down there in San Antonio. Plus they have that rodeo there every year. Who knows what's left over from the rodeo?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they're gonna have a new arena that Victor built.

[Wendy Bontemps]

That's true.

[Brian Windhorst]

In the next few years. All right, this is our last show. Actually, it's not our last show. We have another one, but. No, we don't.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not a show you'll hear before the start of the new year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So anyway, happy New Year to everybody. Missed opportunity for the holiday season. By the way, I was watching the Grizzlies play the 76ers earlier tonight. 76ers won in overtime. VJ Edgecombe hit a shot with a second left to win. Bill Kennedy, you know, had another set of review. He could have done cameos. He could have sold cameos. You know, that service where you. I think Bill Kennedy should go and do cameos. Be very lucrative.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Dude, they've got to just. With all due respect to Billy Kennedy, take him off the floor. And every replay of you just zoom him in on the jumbotron for every replay review announcement throughout the league. Like it is that he is the best replay review announcer possible. And the fans love it. So just let him do that.

[Brian Windhorst]

The other day, I was with my family on Christmas, whatever game he was doing, and the game was on mute, and I called the family in. Well, I saw the review coming. I called the family in and said, here comes one of the stars.

[Wendy Bontemps]

You would love it because you and Billy Kennedy have something in common. The dramatic timing, the gestures. The gestures. You know how to deliver your statement. You know how to maximize. You know how to milk it.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, I was offered to do cameo at one point. I had to turn it down. Just didn't think that was good business for the brand.

[Wendy Bontemps]

For the record, if anybody wants to offer me, we can. We can negotiate a price.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Happy New Year. Thank you to Jackson and Devon for producing this. Thank you to bon temps and McMahon for, I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 shows in 20, 25, here comes 150 more in 2026 Happy New Year. We'll talk to you soon.

[Wendy Bontemps]

Get smarter about women's sports with She's.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Wendy Bontemps]

Series from the Gist of It She's Not Next. She's now dives into the women's sports and league, shaping the future. Right now, enjoy real conversations with players, executives and fans across the fastest growing women's sports. Each episode breaks down how these leagues started, where they stand today, and what comes next. It's clear, thoughtful coverage that goes deeper than headlines without the noise. Listen to She's Not Next, She's now from the Gist of It.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Wendy Bontemps]

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