← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Knicks Win a Trophy & NBA Expansion Soon?? + New NBA Cup Location?
00:56:08
Hoop Collective: Knicks Win a Trophy & NBA Expansion Soon?? + New NBA Cup Location?
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [00:35]
B
Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday evening, where for the first time in my lifetime I can say the New York Knicks are champions. Joining us from Las Vegas where they handed out the hardware for the NBA cup tonight and I have to say I think some pretty good looking gold medals that went with the NBA cup with the Knicks championship of the cup is Tim Von Temps.
- [01:01]
C
I think the Knicks have won some summer league championships in Vegas.
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B
Oh, I take it back. Let me, let me, let me rephrase then. I want to apologize.
- [01:09]
C
There was certainly, there certainly will only be one new banner raised for a championship at the, at the Garden in the last 52 years. That's for the NBA Cup. It's going to be a banner. I know McMahon was very interested in whether it be a banner or not. There will be.
- [01:24]
B
Joining us from Dallas where he was ejected from Vegas like the Thunder the other day is Bam McMahon.
- [01:32]
D
Howdy, partners. Thunder winning streak came to an end. Man hurt to see that. Kind of freed up my January a little bit though. And there will be a ribbon raised to the rafters. Not a banner, a ribbon raise to the rafters at Madison Square Garden.
- [01:47]
B
Yeah. So a very impressive fourth quarter for the Knicks dominated the Spurs. You could see their, you could feel their experience in that moment. The spurs were in Great position through 3/4 the NBA cup final and the knicks outscored him 35 to 19 in the fourth quarter. Pretty much, you know, team effort all across the board, including the unsung hero. The hero of New York didn't know they needed Tyler Kolek, who we'll talk about in, in a few minutes here. But Jalen Brunson with a few baskets in the fourth, had a cad, three assists. Bon temps. You were there, saw it. The Knicks, you know, I wouldn't say it was a command performance by them, but they were the better team when it mattered. And I think it was a pretty, pretty impressive victory considering both teams were, were about, were almost as healthy as you could possibly expect at this point in the season.
- [02:49]
C
Yeah, no, I mean, Deuce McBride was out for the Knicks. Victor Emanyama is coming back from this calf strain and obviously playing some limited minutes for the Spurs. But both teams are pretty much healthy. Both teams played really hard. It's a competitive game. Spurs controlled large stretches of the game. Looked like they had a chance to maybe put it away late in the third when they got up by 10, 11, and it felt like they were in pretty decent shape. But like you said, Tyler Kolek, Mitchell Robinson, you know, really turned the game around. Carl Anthony Towns looked like he banged his knee up a little bit. He left the game right before the end of the first half and then sat out a big chunk of the fourth of the second half, grabbing at his knee a little bit on the bench. But check with the Knicks to make sure he was good to go this today. He's going to come back in at some point. And part of the reason he didn't come back in was because Mitchell Robinson was absolutely trucking the spurs inside. And yes, Mitch. Mitch's health is always a question. You mentioned the Knicks being healthy. Mitchell's healthy right now. We'll see if he's healthy in the spring. But when he is on the court, it's maybe Stephen Adams is the only other guy in the league maybe who's as hard to contain on the boards as Mitchell Robinson. And he gave the Spurs a lot of trouble. And that was a big part of what flipped the game around. And. And yeah, like, the Knicks came back and won it and like, it was impressive performance and was three really fun games here in Vegas.
- [04:11]
D
Yeah, I mean, Jalen Brunson absolutely was a deserving MVP. Is a deserving MVP. It was almost unanimous. My guy, Steve McGee, he was a TV guy in Oklahoma City, was the one. Vote for somebody else went for OGN and OBI. I'm not sure about that one, but.
- [04:31]
C
Yeah, he had a couple really good games here in Vegas. He was great Saturday. He had a really good game today, but. Yeah, but my vote was pretty easy for Brunson.
- [04:39]
D
Yeah, I thought Brunson was an easy decision there. But this game, Mitchell Robinson was the guy who was the most dominant force in this game. He only played 18 minutes, 10 offensive rebounds, 15 total rebounds in 18 minutes. And you talk about the fourth quarter domination. Forget the score. 35, 19 rebounds were 23 to 6.
- [05:05]
C
Second chance plus 17, plus 17 rebounds in a quarter is insane.
- [05:10]
D
Points 13 2. They gave up 32 second chance points in the game. The spurs hadn't given that up in Any game since what our ESPN research folks have it, they hadn't given that up since Game 3 of the 01 Conference Finals against Shaq and the Lakers and. And Mitchell Robinson and the Knicks just physically overpowered the spurs in the second half.
- [05:34]
B
Yeah, I mean, this was actually an unusual game of rebounding because The spurs had 18 offensive rebounds themselves and they had 28 second chance points. 99% of the time. You have those kind of numbers. You're saying, man, we dominated that aspect of the game. In fact, the rebounding was actually dead even going into the fourth quarter. But in the fourth, Mitchell. Mitchell Robinson had six offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter alone.
- [06:03]
D
And so many of those turn into threes because he gets it, he kicks it out and it's either a three right there or, you know, move the ball one or two more times and an open look. So many like those 32 second chance points, I don't know how many came off of his rebounds, but I would guess the vast majority.
- [06:21]
B
Yeah, I mean, there was a stretch there. They. Jordan Clarkson hit a couple of big threes in the end of the third quarter that helped. The Knicks were behind and they pulled back even basically on a stretch of threes. And Jordan Clarkson hit two of them off Mitchell Robinson rebounds and I think a two or three possession span. But yeah, I mean, there were 60 second chances points in this game, 28 from the Spurs, 32 from the Knicks. That's very unusual, but I'm going to tell you that while. Well, I, I don't. I don't want. We'll talk about Wembanyama in a second. I don't want to short shrift the Knicks. I think the Knicks got pretty good performances up and down. OG Anunoby had an excellent shooting game. He had five threes at 28 points, had the most points in the game. Jalen Brunson was plus 15 in 41 minutes at 8 assists and 25 points is obviously very big, but bon temps. In training camp, I'm pretty sure the Knicks were looking for a way to trade Tyler Kolek, and I'm pretty sure there was not that much interest in him. And in the three knockout games, the quarterfinals that they played against the Raptors, semifinals against the Magic, and then this game against the Spurs, Tyler Kolak is the backup point guard, getting minutes because Deuce McBride is out. He's plus 45 in those three games. Bond temps Tyler Kolik and making all kinds of plays, five rebounds, five assists, 14 points, has had to play a lot over the last Month first in us, you know, taking up some of the minutes when Jalen Brunson was out and now minutes when Deuce McBride is out. Like a very unexpected but very welcomed boost for the Knicks bench which as you know, dating back to last season, the Knicks bench has been a key thing. They haven't gotten production out of some of the guys they brought in the offseason. Curtin, Gershon, Yabaselli, who's not even in the rotation anymore and you know, just a tremendous lift that he gave him in this, in this little knockout stage.
- [08:38]
C
Yeah, I mean he was massive. I mean Jalen Brunson got the MVP trophy and threw a curse word or two in and saying it, but immediately said we won this game because of Tyler Kolik, Mitchell Robinson, Jordan Clarkson and OG Anunoby. And he was right. Like Jordan Clarkson was out there making big shots and Robinson, you guys went through, that was awesome. But yeah, like Tyler Kolik is a guy that Knicks fans have wanted to play more the last couple of years. He's second round pick out a Marquette. You know, there's a lot of talk about player development around the Knicks. Last year it centered around Tyler Kolek and become daddier their first round pick. Last year I thought some of the talk about that was kind of silly. But this year he has gotten opportunities to play, he's taken some advantage of him and like you said, I mean he's out there going up against Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper and Derek De' Aaron Fox and Victor Emanyama is out there and he's making plays and getting in the lane, hitting O.J. anunoby in the corner for one of the biggest shots in the game down the stretch. And it, it was remarkable to see. And like I tweeted with a couple minutes left to go in the fourth quarter, just like everybody thought, Tyler Kolik is playing the whole fourth quarter, the cup final and making several massive plays to help the Knicks win the game. It was a, it was a, a wild story and a pretty fun one too for like you said, a guy who was not gotten a lot of opportunities and by the way is also one of these guys towards the end of the roster that stands to really make out getting 500 grand for winning the tournament.
- [10:04]
B
Like that's 530, sir.
- [10:06]
C
Yeah, I mean that's not an insignificant amount of money for a guy who you know is on a minimum second round contract.
- [10:12]
B
I think he's getting a little bit more than the minimum. I think that was one of the things that was, I'M going to look it up right now.
- [10:18]
C
I have to say I'll pull up his salary right now. But regardless, he ain't making Jalen Brunson's money or OJ and Obi's money.
- [10:24]
B
No, of course. I actually that was one of the things that, you know, when they were sort of sniffing around maybe trying to trade him, it was like, well, he's making. Oh yeah, he's making 2.1 million. So they went, you know, they gave him a multi year guaranteed contract and it was like, you know, several multiples of the, of the, of the minimum, by the way. Still not saying he won't enjoy the 500K, but, you know, that was one of the things I was like, man, they're paying him, you know, guaranteed money, like, you know, sort of late first round money. And he wasn't, he wasn't really playing. But forget about all that now. But he certainly has been a, has been a success story. Yeah. So. And look, I'm gonna be honest with you, like our friend Rob Perez, who is sort of the face and voice of the Knicks fans on social media. He is, he was celebrating the Knicks championship and you know, title, whatever. What do you want to call it up? Maybe the championship's too strong.
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C
Championship.
- [11:22]
D
Cup Championship.
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B
Yeah, okay, championship. But you know, the Knicks have had nothing to celebrate in a while. This was the purpose of the cup creating this was to give teams something else to play for, you know, and, and something else to celebrate. And there's no reason, you know, Spike Lee is out, out on the court there celebrating tonight. It's a big time memory. You know, the Knicks, they had, they had quite a few fans there, right?
- [11:50]
D
And there was a. I left Vegas, but it looked like a great atmosphere and it was a great for the league. You have this guy who has a chance to be the face of the league for a long time and Victor Wembanyama, just this, you know, alien talent we've never seen before against one of the league's flagship franchises in the biggest market. So it was a great matchup for.
- [12:11]
C
The league and there were a bunch of spurs fans in. They flew some of the spurs supporter section. Victor created in like they had a bunch of the jackals. They had. They were making a lot of noise. It was a good atmosphere in the building. Like it was. The three games here in Vegas are really good. Like it was a really good conclusion to the event. We'll see where the event is next year. Feel pretty confident it's not going to be back here. In Las Vegas though it could be. But this, the games here were good. The atmosphere was good today. It was a really fun final. Knicks very deserving champion.
- [12:42]
D
That's Jackals, not Jackass, which the USWB once accused Wendy of being in a great pod moment.
- [12:50]
B
Yeah, and I stand, I stand by my position in that. So he probably stands by his. So the first three NBA Cups, you would say whatever you want. You can say something about the floor. You can say something about playing a semifinal game at 2 in the afternoon on a Thursday, which is what they did the first year in Vegas. You can say anything you want. LeBron and the Lakers won it the first year. Giannis and the Bucs won it the second year over the Thunder, who were the champions. And this year, the Knicks win it over Victor Wembanyama and the Spurs.
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D
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Okay, so in the semifinal when the spurs had that great victory against the Thunder, Victor Omanyama came off the bench coming back from the calf injury, which he did again tonight, strategically. And he was absolutely dominant in the 20, I think 21 minutes he played McMahon in the semifinal, I think he was plus 20 and 21 minutes or plus 21 and 20 minutes or something like that.
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C
Plus 21 and 21 minutes and they were plus they were minus 19 the other 27. Right.
- [15:29]
B
And, and from the beginning of this season, the thing that we were super impressed by was Victor Wembanyama's total embracing of being a big man. Yeah, he wasn't abandoning the three pointer, but it was when you know the option number one is to get thyself to the basket, use your size, use your improved frame and your strength and take advantage on the inside. Play the game from inside out. And it was jaw dropping. Well, in the fourth quarter of this game, Victor did not start the fourth quarter. He came and, and it and they lost the lead when he was on the bench. Just to be clear, I don't want to say it's all on him. When they, when they did bring him in with eight minutes left to go in the game, they had already gotten a little bit of trouble. But Victor's temperament over that last eight minutes was not what you want to see for a player of his level. He takes four shots. Three of them are threes over the. I haven't reviewed the tape but off top of my head I thought two of them were bailout situations. When he did not need to take that shot. He goes oh of 4o of 3 from, from 3 point range does not have a rebound in that. While the, you know, the Knicks are dominating on the boards, victory is nowhere to be found on the boards. Again, you could show me situations maybe where he was in position and had fought and the ball doesn't bounce his way. I'm doing this right after the game. But bon temps, that is not what you from and you know, if there's going to be a takeaway from this game, Victor can't have a non impactful fourth quarter in a game that's decided with a game with, with stakes. Where the. What's decided in the fourth quarter.
- [17:08]
C
That's a very, very, very high level analysis there. The best player on the spurs needs to be better if the spurs are going to win high level games. I would agree with that. And look, I would say that Victor Wembanyama was able to really exert his physicality on the game on Saturday. Right. He was doing all the flexing. He's, you know, the, the, the Thunder were playing smaller for a lot of that fourth quarter and he was taking advantage of that. And across that game. Right. Isaiah Hartenstein had just come back. So he and Chet didn't play a ton of minutes together in that game either. He had Mitchell Robinson leaning on him in this game. And you know, I think that played a factor like Mitchell. Robinson's size inside is a lot for anybody to handle, including Victor. He's taller than Mitchell by a couple inches, but it ain't the usual, you know, 6, 8, 10, 12 inches he's got on guys. And Mitchell might be two of Victor put together physically. So, you know, like he definitely was floating around more on the perimeter. The late in the game, I thought they were down five or six or eight and it felt like he was trying to get some six point shots back, took a couple of quick threes. But you know, like you said, I think this was a, this was an example overall, I think of a young spurs team that has not been in these situations before, that did a great job on Saturday night, did a less great job today. And I think we'll walk away from this weekend feeling great about the learning experience that it was. And it, it is not exactly what a late round playoff series is going to be, but they're going to be more prepared for what it'll be like in the conference semifinals or the conference finals now than they were a week ago after playing the Thunder on Saturday, after playing the Lakers in LA last week and winning without Victor and going toe to toe with a experienced Knicks team that's been in the conference finals that's won a playoff series the last few years. So, yeah, it wasn't a great fourth quarter from Victor, it wasn't a great fourth quarter from the Spurs. But I have come away from this weekend supremely impressed by the spurs, and to me they're clearly one of the four best teams in the west with the two teams that played in Denver Monday night, the Rockets and the Nuggets, and then obviously the defending champions, who they beat on Saturday.
- [19:29]
B
I'm sorry to jump in, McMahon, but just one asterisk I want to point out because Victor just did his press conference. He was tearing up in the press conference and apparently said that he lost somebody today. I don't know what that means, if that means someone passed away and then only took one more question and then left. So I don't know how to, to factor that in. I, I mean, I'm, I'm factoring what I could see on, in the, between the four lines on this.
- [19:58]
D
But yeah, I believe he meant that he, that somebody close to him passed away today. You know, he mentioned that his eyes welled up with tears and it was a brief postgame media availability for him, which obviously, you know, that's unfortunate. As far as the basketball goes he was great in the third quarter, but it was. Hit a couple threes, hit a tough, you know, kind of a long mid ranger over.
- [20:28]
C
Well, can I. Can I jump in really quick because of something I wanted to bring up earlier? I happen to be sitting on the side of the court during this one sequence in the third quarter, the 1 you're mentioning when Victor got hot and started making shots all over the place and Tyler Colic hit a shot at the other end. And I don't know if this got caught on tv, but he did the like finger guns at Victor running back. And Victor had a couple words for him going by, looked like he was semi amused by it. And the person I was sitting with, I said, I can promise you Victor's getting the ball and shooting it right now. I don't know if it's going to go in, but he's going to get it and shoot it. And sure enough, he gets the ball in the wing, he squares up, he rises up and hit one of, I think, as you mentioned, like three or four shots he hit right in a row in that run in the third quarter. I, I just, I meant to bring that up on the pod. I forgot to bring it up earlier. Talk about Tyler Colic. I didn't want to not bring it up because it was. I actually laughed out loud when I saw it. It was amazing. But anyway.
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D
And then I do think that when we got a little too perimeter oriented, a little too jumper happy down the stretch. Stage fright's not a factor with this guy though, okay? This guy loves the stage, loves pressure situations. You know, we've seen some of his performances, you know, in the Olympics. Like we saw his performance the other day against the Thunder. And I also. We don't have to look back too far for a reminder that, hey, a rough championship game performance probably isn't something you want to draw just big grand conclusions from. Remember, the Thunder got their butts wh. Pretty good by the Bucks in the championship game last year. Shay did not have a very good game.
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C
Nope.
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D
They ended up having a pretty damn good season. And I'm not saying that the spurs are going to win the championship, but because the Thunder still exists. What I'm telling you is this, this whole NBA cup was kind of the spurs announcing to the league, we're on our way. We might already be here and they're going to be a force to be reckoned with. It was interesting though. Darren Fox, I'm not sure. Were you in there in his press conference?
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C
I was not.
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D
So he Was asked basically about.
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C
Basically.
- [22:48]
D
Hey, in so many words, like, you know, does a team have to have playoff failure on the path to a championship? And he acknowledged. He kind of said, hey, that's typically. Tends to be the way it goes. And he basically said, yeah, this team's going to have to have some growing pains to get to that level. And I thought that was interesting. You know, Harrison Barnes has championship experience. Luke Cornett has championship experience. You know, Fox just has a playoff series. You know, they've got some guys. You know, Stefan Castle has college championship experience, but this is still a very young team. And the question was kind of getting out, like, how valuable is this, you know, elimination game stuff in the, in the cup to a team that's trying to become a championship contender? But I thought it was interesting that Fox kind of said, I'm putting words in his mouth here and paraphrase, but in so many words, basically said, yeah, we're have to get our nose blooded a little bit in the playoffs before we'll be ready to really compete for a championship. Probably.
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C
Well, there's no team in basically the history of the league that's ever won it without that. So, I mean, he's also just. Yeah, I mean, he's just stating a fairly obvious fact there, too. But by the way, Stefan Castle was great in these elimination games. He didn't shoot the ball great today, but at 12 turnover or 12 assists to two turnovers, the Knicks had. Part of the reason Knicks had extra ball handlers out there was because he is such a menace on the ball.
- [24:20]
B
Yeah, man, he is.
- [24:21]
C
Dylan Harper also. I mean, we talked about it on the last spot, just how big, physically big and imposing the spurs are across the board. It's really something you have to see in person to really appreciate. And Dylan Harper, who is awesome and, you know, was coming off the bench, but at 21, hit five threes. Yeah, he's. He's awesome. Like, they're. They're really impressive. They're really fun to watch. I. It's. We talked about the other day. I mean, the Texas Triangle +OKC, assuming Cooper gets any help, is going to just be an absolute menace for teams to deal with for years to come. And, you know, like I said, I think we saw the Pacers two years ago announce themselves in this tournament with Tyrese Halliburton's run to the Cup Final. We saw the Thunder win the title, obviously, after getting to the Cup Final last year. The Rockets getting to Vegas, I think, was part of their ascension, and I think there's little doubt that coming out of this tournament, San Antonio has gained a lot of confidence. Like, I was around their team a lot the last few days. You've been around them a bunch this year, McMahon, but you saw them when they were here, like those guys felt really good about winning that game Saturday. They they feel really confident about their team. You know, I think for a young team that's still got to go through those growing pains, I think this was an awesome experience for them, and I definitely think they're going to be a lot better for it come the spring.
- [25:48]
B
Yeah, and I think that is sort of the legacy so far of the NBA cup is that it has been not only relevant, whatever you want to argue in the moment about celebrating it, it has been relevant for the season that it's in.
- [26:05]
D
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Before the game Bontemps there's what, maybe three or four times a year where you are part of the contingency that meets with Adam Silver. That happened again before the cup today. I wonder if you could go down sort of the, the relevant news things. Let's start with. It may not be the headline, but let's start with what we were just talking about, which was the future of the NBA Cup.
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C
Well, the irony is he didn't actually get asked about the future of the NBA cup at his press conference. However, he did get asked about it on Amazon prime where who hosts the NBA Cup. And so they were talk about it and Adam said we're talking with Amazon Prime. Ironically, even though he's on Amazon prime.
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B
He was talking with Jay Marine who's the head of sports at Amazon during the game.
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C
Correct. We're talking with Amazon prime about whether it makes sense to maybe go to some unique locations for the final game. They've suggested, for example, some storied college arenas. So we're looking at other ways we can do this. Well, I obviously I wrote, I reported on Monday that the NBA is considering moving the championship game out of Las Vegas to somewhere else. They already have announced to move in the semifinals back to the home sites for next season and Adam Silver went to Duke. Cameron Indoor Stadium is a storied arena. I'm not saying that this game will be played in Durham, North Carolina next year, but I would say by, I would say by Adam saying that though I would say that you immediately have to put it on the short list of places where this game will be held next year. So Jackson has put in the chat the GMA Wireless Dome, which used to be called the Carrier Dome. This game, this game will not be played as a Carrier Dome because they're not going to try to be getting 40, 000 people.
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D
Yeah, they don't, they don't want 25, 000 NPCs.
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C
No, the other thing about Cameron Indoor Stadium, whatever you think about this idea, that is a very small arena with not a lot of seats. And if you're trying to put on a big TV production, I could see why Amazon would go, that's a good idea.
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B
Well, does indoor have a video board? I don't, I don't know.
- [29:44]
C
It does have a video board of some sort.
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B
Okay.
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D
I'm sure they could get the Cameron crazies out there and kind of get that kind of a scene going. Logistics. I don't know. I've never been there. I don't know like logistically about hosting an NBA event.
- [29:59]
B
Let's just McMahon, let's just reverse engineer this. How many quote unquote storied college venues are there?
- [30:07]
D
I mean, you think of the blue bloods you think Duke, Carolina, Kentucky.
- [30:12]
B
Well, you're thinking like Rough Arena. You're thinking Hinkle.
- [30:15]
C
Hinkle Field House in Indianapolis would be pretty cool.
- [30:18]
D
I played pickup ball during the finals.
- [30:20]
C
Yeah.
- [30:20]
D
I made it even more storied.
- [30:22]
C
Cameron. But Hinklefield House would be a cool one. Cameron Indoor would be a cool one. Fog Allen in Lawrence, Kansas is obviously a very famous one. Pavilion in LA is another one. I think the key thing with all of those places, at least most of them, like Rupp Arena's got a million seats in it. And the Louisville Arena, I can't think of the name of it's also got a million seats in it.
- [30:45]
B
Louisville is not storied. It's true.
- [30:48]
C
The other. But other than Rupp arena, most of the other ones are under 10,000 seats. Like Deuce capacity Jackson just put in here is a little over 9,000 seats.
- [30:57]
B
Seats.
- [30:58]
C
Yeah. So you know, these games have been played in a normal 8, 17, 18, 19, 000 seat arena and they've had a bunch of empty seats in the for these games. So I don't know where the game's going to be played. I don't have concrete reporting on that.
- [31:12]
B
You know, it's a storied college venue.
- [31:15]
D
What's that? Don't say Nebraska.
- [31:17]
B
Madison Square Garden.
- [31:18]
D
I was going to say actually. And I have an idea. I have an idea. Two things I would like the champions to get one. I think I've mentioned this before. The ultimate tiebreaker. You don't get an extra win but you get an asterisk spider record. If you end up in a tie, I don't care. Head to head three, whatever. Regardless of circumstances.
- [31:35]
B
That's interesting.
- [31:36]
D
You get the tiebreaker.
- [31:37]
C
That I have to admit. It's a very good idea that McMahon.
- [31:40]
D
Has and it makes fans care. Like, okay, cool. Rich got richer. That's something for fans. Root for two. I think if you win the championship, you host the championship game the next year. How about that?
- [31:53]
B
You hope you like, you're automatically going to buy into the championship.
- [31:56]
D
It's at your bill.
- [31:56]
C
No, like the game, like the game this year would be in Milwaukee.
- [32:00]
B
No, because, because let's say that happened and you know, people in Milwaukee are not showing up to a Knicks spurs game.
- [32:09]
D
Okay. People go to the All Star game in NBA cities.
- [32:13]
B
Yeah. Because they know they're going to see the All Stars.
- [32:15]
C
I, I, I think it will be interesting to see what they decide to do. It'll be interesting to see what they decide to do. But I, I would Say that Cameron indoor is probably a pretty good bet. If I'm betting based off Adam Silver saying that Jackson asked about this going to Europe. I think whether it's in Europe or Abu Dhabi or China or wherever you want to say is like a exotic overseas destination.
- [32:39]
B
Bring the Serbian fans to Abu Dhabi now.
- [32:43]
D
He'll actually cover it next year.
- [32:45]
C
Year. The problem, the problem with any of those places is this is not going to change on the schedule from where it is and therefore the travel component. It's already hard for teams like say, Orlando, right? Orlando had to fly about 5,000 miles to go back and forth to Vegas and then go to Denver for their, the start of their west coast trip. After this thing, teams aren't going to want to fly to Paris or this.
- [33:09]
B
Is not going to Europe. This is not going to Europe. It's not going overseas. I've asked, I don't, I can't remember if it was on the record. I asked Adam about it when I was in the Middle east because Emirates is the title sponsor, which is Dubai and they have a beautiful arena, Coca Cola arena in Dubai. And I asked him, I said. And he's like, no, that's not happening. So I don't, I can't remember if that was on the record, but I just put it on the record.
- [33:37]
D
I have an arena or no.
- [33:39]
B
What's that?
- [33:39]
D
Does Cancun have an arena?
- [33:42]
B
I'm not sure.
- [33:44]
C
You know, I, I, the more I'm thinking about this as we're sitting here, Hinkle Field House makes a lot of sense if you're going to do it at a college arena, because one of the biggest complaints teams have had is that it's uneven travel. Right. Like you've got to go to Vegas or to go to, to North Carolina. You're going to one end of the country or the other, whereas there's a ton of hotels in Indy.
- [34:03]
B
It's in the middle of a lot of places.
- [34:05]
C
Events, great at hosting events and it that's centrally located in the country. So, like for everybod, the travel isn't so bad. So I don't know where. Like I said, the only concrete reporting I had going into Monday was that this thing was definitely, there's definitely going to be an open possibility of being played elsewhere. I do think the, the atmosphere was very good at the game Tuesday night and I do think having a Knicks fan base in the game and a Spurs fan base where they were actively bringing fans here really did help with that. But, yeah, it's all options are clearly on the table. And it'll be interesting to see what they choose.
- [34:40]
B
All right, what else did Adam, what else you got, McMahon?
- [34:43]
D
I was gonna ask. I was sure the schedule is going to be the exact same.
- [34:46]
C
Yes, The NBA has said the scheduling is going to be the same. We're burying the very important lead from the press conference, which was, yes, for the first time. So to back up, it's almost exactly five years ago since I asked Adam Silver on a zoom call, I believe before the season started in 2020, December 2020, about expansion. And he opened the door for the first time to the possibility of expansion. Now, since then, there's been all these ups and downs and peaks and valleys. Our guy, Kevin Pelton has been losing his mind for five years hoping that the Seattle super exciting will come back, as is every other fan in Seattle, as have fans here in Vegas, as have fans elsewhere. And I asked Adam tonight about. I asked him sort of an unrelated question or semi related question who expansion that he kind of danced around. And then I just asked for a basic update on Europe and expansion from what he said in September. And frankly, I didn't think he was going to say a whole lot. However, he then said, I'm pulling up the quote right now, quote, I'd say in terms of domestic expansion. That is something we're continuing to look at. He then went on to talk about Vegas and Seattle and how great Vegas and Seattle are. He then said this. I think now we're in the process of working with our teams, engaging the level of interest and having a better understanding of what the economics would be on the ground for those particular teams and what a pro forma would look like for them. And then sometime in 2026, we will make a determination. This is easily the most definitive and the first time there's ever been any kind of timeline put on expansion. And I would say now, I would say a couple of things. If you're a fan in Seattle and you're a fan in Las Vegas, I think the most important thing that Adam said beyond the timeline part was we're sensitive that there's this notion that we're somehow teasing these markets. Because I've known we've been talking about this for a while. Then he went on to say at length how great a market Seattle is and how great a market Las Vegas is. So will I sit here right now and say with 100% certainty by this time next year there will be an expansion process underway to have two teams in Seattle and Las Vegas? No, because we have learned that nothing is certain in the NBA after the Luca trade. However, I think if you're a fan of one of those teams or if you're a fan who wants to see expansion, that answer to me sounded like a guy who's getting ready for expansion to come to the NBA next year. And that was a much more definitive.
- [37:15]
B
Not to be clear. It's not going to be right that we're finally.
- [37:20]
C
That the announcement of this is happening. Finally happening after years and years of discussion and debate. And are we doing it? Are we not? What's happening? This was easily like him saying that Adam doesn't throw out dates like that casually.
- [37:34]
B
Yeah, he created a deadline. There was nobody saying, what's the deadline, Adam, what's the deadline?
- [37:41]
C
I expected him to say what he said in September, which is because I asked him in September or it seems like Europe's ahead of expansion. Is that fair? And he very stridently, I thought interesting at the time. Stridently pushed back on that said, no, the parallel tracks. We're working on both of them. I just thought he was going to say, yeah, we don't really have an update. We're looking at it. Whatever. For him to end it with, we're going to have a decision next year. We don't want to seem like we're teasing people like, yes, maybe there's a world where they come back and say, we just don't want to do it. However, for as long as this has been talked about and for the amount of money that these teams would generate, which I think would be somewhere between 12 and $15 billion, if there's two teams for the 30 NBA owners, which means they would get a check for four to $500 million each, depending on where it falls in that range. I have always felt if it got to that point, expansion will happen. And I would say today was a very good day if you're a fan of one of those places, hoping for a team to come to your market.
- [38:38]
D
Well, he also heard Wendy talk about the M80s being thrown at the court in Serbia.
- [38:43]
C
You don't want to be in Europe.
- [38:45]
D
So way to go, Wendy.
- [38:47]
B
Yeah. So, you know, this is not a binding. Understand, you know, thing. He could just as easily a year from now say, yeah, we said 26, but we meant 27. But I think bot temps's Reid is correct. I think, you know, one of the things that Adam. Adam said tonight, he has said it before, is that what you're worried about is diluting the equity. What he means by that is that there's, you know, there's 30 share the $77 billion TV deal and obviously there's more revenue than that. But that's the primary revenue. The 77 billion dollar TV deal. The NBA keeps half of it roughly. Other half goes to the players and they split it amongst 30. If you split it amongst 32, it's less money and then it's that way going forward, you know, forevermore. But the, the price of teams has gone up. When you have the, the trailblazers selling for 4 billion, you know expansion was going to be more than that as Bontem says. So there, there becomes a spot where the math flip sides upside down and I think we're there. The question that I would have is, is the NBA in a position to. Two things. One, are there are the 28 markets currently operating healthy enough where relocation should not be considered at all? I know that relocation.
- [40:08]
C
I asked Adam Silver that question because perhaps Brian and I talked about this beforehand as a game planning a question to ask him and what me out of it.
- [40:18]
D
Thanks, go on.
- [40:19]
C
Well, I'm giving Brian credit and an Adam said it was not a related topic to expansion, that there are two separate things and that it's not like you rank the markets and say well if we can move the worst market somewhere else that means we shouldn't expand. Which you know, I didn't think he was going to say, yes, we don't have strong enough markets, we're not going to expand. But again, all of that points to, to me that this is something I think the league wants to do and it's a matter of getting it over the line with the owners and I think they will get it over the line with the owners because when Adam Silver wants to do something like the NBA cup, like the play in tournament, like these other things like NBA tend to have like NBA Europe, they tend to happen.
- [41:06]
B
Yeah, well.
- [41:07]
D
And considering who the bosses are at Omaha, we probably don't want to talk about relocation candidates anyways.
- [41:13]
B
Well, listen, I, when I was 17 years old, the Cleveland Browns left. I'm certainly sensitive, sensitive to what happens to a city when you lose the heart and soul of the team. But that said, there are teams that are being absolutely kept alive by revenue sharing and that is something to, to. To pay attention to. The other thing that Adam talked about that I think is interesting, Bon temps was he was asked about what something else that you've written about recently, you and Bobby Marks wrote about recently, which is what he thinks could happen to. To address the, the. The issue that the Miami Heat are facing with Terry Rozier in limbo in no man's land, him existing on their cap, that mowing a first round pick, and most importantly, not knowing when the trade happened, that there had been this investigation, that this was potentially hanging over him. This is not so much about anything else besides that. It's, you know, because when he was asked the question, Adam Silver tonight gave a long lawyerly answer about, well, we don't have the investigative power of the FBI. We, you know, we have. We can't get ahead of the justice system. He is, you know, charged but not proven guilty. That's all fine. But. But Bontemps, what he said was more important, what he said about what he could do about it.
- [42:40]
C
Yeah, I mean, he. He talked about that they're going to, you know, go through and see if they can come up with some solution for the Heat. I thought, frankly, this was a, you know, he called it an unprecedented situation, which it is. I, I would also say I thought this was a very lawyerly way to not say a whole lot about this. And ultimately, I think where this is going to end up in the place where I thought it's going to end up the whole time, which is. I don't know for sure if the Heat are going to file a grievance or not. However, I think if they do file a grievance, they're not going to win because the NBA is not going to open up some can of worms or they're going to retroactively go back on trades that happened in the past. However, the fact that Terry Rogier is still on the team, I think, to me is a clear indication that he believe if they want to trade Terry Rogier, they'll be able to trade Tara Roger this season. And my assumption is that is how this will be enumerated if it is eventually, which is if the Heat want to make some deal to try to get better this year with Terry Roger on the roster, they'll be able to trade them and the team will then wave them, that gets them, and that will be that. But I don't. If I was a Miami Heat fan, I would not anticipate getting a future draft pick back or getting their draft pick back because that opens up so many further problems that I don't think they're going to watch.
- [43:57]
B
And Adam, Adam said he goes, he kind of passed the buck. He's like, how do you put. He's like, I'm in. He said he would consult with other teams, which, yeah, we'll be looking at.
- [44:06]
D
This with and the other teams in the league and see if there's any satisfactory relief. But at the moment there is none.
- [44:12]
B
Hey other team. That's why other teams who votes we should give the Miami Heat satisfactory relief which again maybe.
- [44:18]
C
Yeah, exactly is the satisfactory relief that you change the rules going forward. So you have to. These things have to be disclosed. I mean I don't know if that's happening. We, we had pros and cons of that in our story. Maybe it's something like that. But I think the most important thing is for like people looking at the heats books thinking are they going to get.
- [44:36]
B
Maybe they.
- [44:36]
C
Maybe they will get this pick back. I would, I would say I don't.
- [44:40]
B
Think there's any chance they're getting the pick back but they have to be.
- [44:43]
D
Able to trade Rosier like league has.
- [44:45]
B
Given roster there have been times in the past where the league has given compensatory picks. It's rare but it has happened. But you're not getting like the ninth pick in next year's draft. So it's not going to be something that's going to change the course of your franchise.
- [45:01]
D
But again like if you can trade guys who are injured and out for the year in this situation, I don't see why the Heat should not be allowed to trade terrors there. And to be clear, they're trading the salary. They're not trading the player. They're trading to make the math work and trade. I don't see why the Heat should be handcuffed on the. Well, that's not the greatest word to use right now why the Heat should not be permitted to do that.
- [45:27]
B
I would agree with you. I would agree with you. I don't know if that's going to satisfy the folks in Miami who are looking for a pound of flesh here. McMahon, you were traveling back from Vegas. Actually the game was in Salt Lake City, so you wouldn't have been there anyway. Cooper flag had 42 points. 42 points. On Monday night. The Mavericks lost the game to the Jazz. And the Jazz by the way are not easy to beat in Salt Lake City. They are a better team than than I think they intended to be. But you know, losing in Salt Lake City is not the end of the world. But Cooper Flag impressed me so much with this performance. McMahon not only because he had 42 but when you watch how he got the scoring, it was so much of it was done on ice. He was creating his own shots. He was doing it at all three levels He, I don't know, he might have had like five or six. What's that?
- [46:26]
D
Two of the three levels. He, he's a, he's a two level scorer now. He's not a three point shooter.
- [46:32]
B
He made threes in this game.
- [46:34]
D
He's not a three point shooter.
- [46:35]
B
Okay, but in this game he scored at all three levels and he, I.
- [46:40]
D
Think he made like he made a three in this game.
- [46:42]
B
Okay.
- [46:42]
D
He went one for four, which is about what he does.
- [46:44]
B
All right, fine. But two levels.
- [46:46]
D
But your point. He's a six foot nine guy who is strong already and is going to fill out. He's going to be a monster physically. I as a good handle, a great left hand.
- [46:59]
B
And that's what I was going to say. I think he had six baskets or so in this game with his left hand.
- [47:04]
D
He's a dominant left hand driver and finisher. He's, he's already very good at using his size and his strength. While he doesn't have a three point shot, that's gonna have to be completely remade. He does have really nice touch around the basket, you know, in the post and in and in the mid range. And look, breaking news. He's not a point guard. The whole experiment with him at a point guard was an utter failure. Although maybe not.
- [47:33]
C
Well, the point of it, the point of it was he was never supposed to be a point guard long term. The point was it was supposed to be on ball reps for him to continue to grow his game and get better as a player. Which by the way, it helped him do that.
- [47:46]
D
Show how flawed the roster was.
- [47:47]
C
But anyway, I mean, listen, it could be that too. But the bottom line is it put the guy in uncomfortable positions as a young player to improve and get better. And he did that. And yeah, the second he got put in his natural position, what did he do? He started putting up monster games night after night because the guy is an incredible prospect. And it remains the. The events of the last year in Dallas remain completely insane and unbelievable. The fact that they made the trade that was such a complete disaster in February remains one of the most insane things that's ever happened in the league. And then you follow it up by the plan leading to Cooper Flag in May and June in the draft. And now you walk into another franchise level, you know, elite mega prospect to immediately pick the baton up. Because again, imagine where Dallas would be if Cooper Flag was playing for any other team in the league and they didn't have the number one they'd be. It'd be It'd be a crater.
- [48:45]
D
Right.
- [48:46]
C
It'd be an asteroid induced crater. And instead they have hope simply because this guy is on the team. Like that's how good he is since.
- [48:55]
D
They pulled him from the point guard role and just played him at his natural position, which, you know, whatever, forward, three, four, whatever it is.
- [49:02]
C
Yep.
- [49:03]
D
He's averaging 20.2 points, shooting 51.4% from the floor. That's 59 on twos. And again, those aren't all dunks and layups. There's a lot of mid rangers.
- [49:16]
C
Yep.
- [49:16]
D
I mean, and, and, and he's a.
- [49:18]
C
Good defensive player, all that stuff.
- [49:21]
D
When scouts were gushing about Cooper Flag going into the draft, scoring was down the list of reasons that they were so excited about him. And the question was, hey, is he going to be a number one offensive option? You know, there's even. Everyone in the Mavericks obviously loves this kid. I've been talking to people, the Mavericks, who says, you know what, if we're a championship team, maybe it's a 1, a 1B and he can be a 1B, you know, but who we, we don't know how good of a score he can be, but what he's telling you is he might be a big time scorer too. Youngest guy ever to get 35. Youngest ever get 40 plus now. And you know, like this is, this is a guy who's just scratching the surface. If he develops a three point shot, which that's the number one skill, he's.
- [50:12]
C
Gonna, he's gonna develop it. He's, he's gonna develop a three point shot. The shot is not, he does not have a Michael Kidd grip, Chris. Jump shot, his jump shot's fine. He'll, he'll make three pointers.
- [50:22]
B
You know how rare it is for a 18 year old to be able to physically compete. He, he doesn't get pushed around. He, he, he has any, and he already, you can tell he already has confidence that he can, he can get the corner turned on a guy. He can, he can use his hip, he can use his shoulder, he can create contact like it is. I mean, forget about just, you know, being able to handle all of the things being thrown at you in an NBA game and all the, to be, to be not physically bumped around. And as a big like that, man.
- [50:56]
C
There'S a reason all these stats are him and LeBron. It's him and LeBron and him and LeBron and him and LeBron for a reason. I'm not saying he's going to be LeBron necessarily, but like it's, there's a reason he's, it's him and, and LeBron because like when Kobe came in the league at 18, he wasn't physically ready to do that. Like a lot of these guys, a lot of the high school guys in the 90s who came in were not physically ready to do that. And remember Cooper Flagg was supposed to be a freshman in college this year he reclassified to move up which is why we're talking about with all these 18 year old stats and yeah, like the fact he can come in and immediately handle the physical nature of the league. Like, yeah, it's part of why he's a very special prospect.
- [51:32]
B
I also liked and I know that he doesn't exactly like, you know, show a lot of emotion in the media and stuff. McMahon. I like the way he handled the, the, you know, how he did it. Like he was like, you know, it was a, you know, whatever, it was fine. But we lost like, you know, we.
- [51:48]
D
Like all seen, we've all seen players who walked out of arenas pretty happy because they put a big stat lines in a loss. He will never be that guy. He, this there are guy everybody loves to win. A lot of, you know, the, the best hate losing. Detect.
- [52:07]
C
He's a hate, he's a hate losing guy.
- [52:10]
D
And dude, this is a guy who storms off the golf course if his mom beats him. He hates losing. Trust me, he's in. But again, when you talk like I was talking to a GM from another team earlier this year and he was like, man, this kid is special. And all he kept talking about wasn't size, skill, athleticism. He was like, God, the way this kid competes is just special.
- [52:38]
C
Yeah, look, I've told this, I've told this story on the podcast before. I went to watch him play in the City of Palms Tournament in Fort Myers with Bobby a couple years ago when he was still in high school at Mon Verd, they had one of the best high school teams ever. I think they had six guys drafted in the first round this year off that team and they were beating this team by 70 points or something. I mean they're destroying them. And Cooper is in a defensive stance 92ft from the basket, like trying to take the ball off the kid in front of him. Like he reminds me of Kevin Garnett from a competitive standpoint who's like as competitive a person who's ever seen in the league. Like he's that kind of guy and has always been seen as a, a plus teammate and is a perf a prototypical 6, 9 wing to build around. Like, can do everything at both ends. Like. Yeah, like. It, it just remains unbelievable, the sequence of events in Dallas and the fact that he's sitting there. Because I. It's. It's just, it's. It, it. It's unfathomable to think about where Dallas would be if they hadn't won the lottery and they didn't have this guy sitting there right now.
- [53:38]
B
By the time this pod comes out, what's our guess to be how much. About how much IME Udoka will be fined for what he said about the officials after that brutal loss to the Nuggets in overtime on Monday night. It was a great game, by the way. Jokic, Murray, Sengun, Durant, everybody was playing great basketball. Jokic whether three triple doubles in that game, but he, he said it was the most poorly officiated game he'd seen in a long time. And what do you say? They said that one of the officials was starstruck.
- [54:07]
C
Two officials shouldn't have been out there. And the other one was starstruck. The other one being the crew chief.
- [54:12]
D
Starstruck? Which dude? The crew chief was Zach Zarbo, who's got the best care in the NBA. He didn't get starstruck.
- [54:17]
B
Top three official in the NBA. Like verified top three official.
- [54:20]
D
Yeah. So listen, here's the thing though. Everybody's got off nights. Look, 70 mines, 50 grand. I think you should take 10 grand off per blown call that went against his team in the last two minute report. So if it's 50, it can only be 20 because there's. There was three of them in overtime going against him. And by the way, not even the most controversial call the game, which was the. The foul that was called on amend Thompson by 2.3 seconds left in regulation. I just don't think there was a good enough camera angle on that one.
- [54:53]
B
Well, with all due respect to Tim Hardaway Jr. He literally dove. He see you heard taking a dive. He literally dove on an inbounds play.
- [55:01]
C
Was a soccer play, felt the contact, it went down and got the call.
- [55:05]
D
I tell you what, though, that it was still a hell of a game. Unbelievable shot making. Joker and Jamal Murray, by the way, are both having the best offense I.
- [55:14]
B
Know, man, in that pick and roll. Holy hell.
- [55:17]
D
And my point here is, as much as we, we all believe we're going to be in Bricktown again in July. I'm sorry, in June, dude, disperse.
- [55:27]
B
You'll be there in July. You just won't go home.
- [55:29]
C
Yes, I will unless I there's, there's competition.
- [55:35]
D
And you know, the Thunder or I'm sorry, the Rockets Nuggets are going, you know, they're not just going to roll over for anybody.
- [55:42]
C
For as frustrated as the Rockets were at the fishing, they were very frustrated. Apparent senguns had an awesome year. Had a lot of silly fouls late in that game, looked tired late in that game. Obviously a huge challenge going up against Nicole Jokic. But like again, like we're talking about the spurs for a young team like that, those guys haven't won a playoff series yet. Him and Amen Thompson, like that's going to be the next step. Like going toe to toe with Jokic is really hard.
- [56:04]
B
All right. Thank you very much for watching, listening to the Hoop Collective. Thank you Jackson, for putting it all together. Thank you to Bon Thompson McMahon who stayed up late and we'll talk to you later this week. Oh, real quick Friday. Can I say bontemps?
- [56:19]
C
Yeah, sure.
- [56:19]
B
You could say the first Bontemp straw poll BS Poll baby will be released.
- [56:27]
C
And we will be almost have we almost have the entire ballot done.
- [56:32]
B
Will there be any jackassery? We're gonna find out.
- [56:37]
C
There will be something.
- [56:40]
D
Adios, amigos.
- [56:54]
E
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